# FITA Field - The other kind of field archery.



## mdbowhunter (Oct 22, 2002)

*Maryland has A FITA Field Championship*

Dave,
Maryland has a FITA Field Championship shoot. The club I belong to has hosted it for the past few years on Labor Day. I haven't shot it (I helped in the kitchen this year) but it is becoming ever more popular. Looks like a nice change from the constant Field/Hunter format we always shoot.


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## Grey Eagle (May 23, 2002)

The Canadian Field Championsips held each year are Fita based. One exception is that both days are known distance.


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## Mr. October (Feb 15, 2003)

I've always wanted to try FITA Field. I've read about it and thought it sounded like fun. I may try to make the MD shoot Jerry speaks of. Jerry . . . let me know when that is if you wouldn't mind.

Also . . on the unmarked half . . I understand that it is unmarked but are there prescribed distances? In other words is there 1 target at 10 meter, 1 at 15, 20, and so forth (or some other pattern . . I'm just using random numbers). Or are they completely unmarked like a 3d course? 

At such a point when we get our field course built, I'm VERY tempted to have a FITA Field shoot when we get the target butts done and before we mark the course. It would be easy. I can see why a lot of clubs don't do FITA Field though 'cause most probably have fairly permanent markers for the regular field course which would make the unmarked part tough.


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## Dave T (Mar 24, 2004)

Mr. October said:


> Also . . on the unmarked half . . I understand that it is unmarked but are there prescribed distances? In other words is there 1 target at 10 meter, 1 at 15, 20, and so forth (or some other pattern . . I'm just using random numbers). Or are they completely unmarked like a 3d course?


Mr. O, I am far from an expert on this but I've shot in several and am helping put on the one I mentioned in January.

For compounds and Oly recurve you will see the 20cm target from 10m-15m unmarked and between 10m-20m marked. The 40cm targets will be from 15m-25m unmarked and 15m-30m marked. The 60cm faces will show up 20m-35m unmarked and 35m-45m marked. For the 80cm the spread is 35m-55m unmarked and 50m-60m marked. Barebow gets about a 5m break (closer) on all these.

20cm faces are 3 verticals in 4 columns. 40cm faces are put up 4 to a square. The 60cm and 80cm are singles and you will notice the distances overlap. That's where the unmarked portion gets tricky (LOL).

Oh, and each course of fire is newly designed for that event. You won't see the exact same distances for each round as you do with NFAA/IFAA.

I didn't know they were doing a FITA Field in Maryland. Good to know. Also, not surprised Canada shoots one, I just hadn't heard about it.

Dave


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## FaT Archer (Jul 21, 2006)

*FITA Field*

I have shoot the Ohio FITA field 10 to 15 times, this is held on one of two field courses, the first one I shot was in eastern Ohio, and let me tell you this is one TOUGH course to shoot ,and just to get threw, last year I was 60 and made it but it was tough. I have shot the 3D course at Nelsonsville Ohio and I have to say it is a much easier course to shoot and get around on. The second place to shoot FITA field in Ohio is clost to central Ohio, La Rue Ohio. Now this is like going to the park. we call it a walk in the park, but you still have to make the shots. Both are great shoots the only bad thing I can think of is there is only one a year.


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## VA Vince (Aug 30, 2005)

Sounds like fun. But I prefer known yardage, if I miss its my fault. + if theres not a metal detector than its not for me. Too much money to be tossing arrows in the weeds. Well it might not be to bad, 55yds is the longest target. I need the metal detector for the acc's.


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## Jbird (May 21, 2002)

*FITA Field*

People who regularly participate in FITA Field are not really shooting unknown distances. They have developed a system based on target size and knowing what the distance range is for each target is. They then use their scopes and target size to nail the yardage down. This system is called gauging and there are numerous places on the net and in archery magazines that teach you how to do it. The problem is that it takes a while to commit it all to memory and who is going to mess with it to shoot one shoot a year? I feel sure they could up the participation here in the US and other places as well if they would make both days marked yardage. If it was all known yardage it would make an excellent alternate field round for clubs as it takes less time,
less arrows, and less real estate. I would still prefer the NFAA/IFAA standard field round but every time the discussion comes up there are always a bunch of pin heads that think we could grow Field archery if there were less arrows to be shot in a round and the distances were simplified. I don't agree. People who are interested in shooting spots outdoors have no trouble adapting to the standard field round and most of us like to shoot a bunch of arrows after we get there. Just my .02
Jbird


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## Mr. October (Feb 15, 2003)

Jbird said:


> People who regularly participate in FITA Field are not really shooting unknown distances. They have developed a system based on target size and knowing what the distance range is for each target is. They then use their scopes and target size to nail the yardage down. This system is called gauging and there are numerous places on the net and in archery magazines that teach you how to do it. The problem is that it takes a while to commit it all to memory and who is going to mess with it to shoot one shoot a year? I feel sure they could up the participation here in the US and other places as well if they would make both days marked yardage. If it was all known yardage it would make an excellent alternate field round for clubs as it takes less time,
> less arrows, and less real estate. I would still prefer the NFAA/IFAA standard field round but every time the discussion comes up there are always a bunch of pin heads that think we could grow Field archery if there were less arrows to be shot in a round and the distances were simplified. I don't agree. People who are interested in shooting spots outdoors have no trouble adapting to the standard field round and most of us like to shoot a bunch of arrows after we get there. Just my .02
> Jbird


Agreed Jbird . . never ONCE have I wanted to shoot LESS arrows. Usually the problem is "I promise honey . . I'll be home after just a few more shots".


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## Marcus (Jun 19, 2002)

I have shot unmarked FITA Field once in 10 years.  It just is not shot in Australia, always marked instead. 

I really liked it, but the new scoring being proposed of a 6 ring will put me off shooting it. I'll likely just shoot FITA Target and indoor now.


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## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

Jbird said:


> People who regularly participate in FITA Field are not really shooting unknown distances. They have developed a system based on target size and knowing what the distance range is for each target is. They then use their scopes and target size to nail the yardage down. This system is called gauging and there are numerous places on the net and in archery magazines that teach you how to do it. The problem is that it takes a while to commit it all to memory and who is going to mess with it to shoot one shoot a year? I feel sure they could up the participation here in the US and other places as well if they would make both days marked yardage. If it was all known yardage it would make an excellent alternate field round for clubs as it takes less time,
> less arrows, and less real estate. I would still prefer the NFAA/IFAA standard field round but every time the discussion comes up there are always a bunch of pin heads that think we could grow Field archery if there were less arrows to be shot in a round and the distances were simplified. I don't agree. People who are interested in shooting spots outdoors have no trouble adapting to the standard field round and most of us like to shoot a bunch of arrows after we get there. Just my .02
> Jbird


I shoot the ohio Field every year for a decade plus the northern regional and three nationals (Utah and Ohio) Don's course is very tough physically-last year I shot one day and my arthritic knees and bad back had enough. Randall's course is far more user friendly. On Don's course, and the one in Cedar City (which is no longer a legal course due to the altitude) you rarely shot the distance on the marked stake on the second day for the 60 and especially the 80M targets due to the angles


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## I BOW 2 (May 22, 2002)

The biggest problem with the unmarked FITA is where are you going to find enough clubs that 1 have the land to build a fresh course every year for a one time use and 2 have the man power willing to do it!?!?!? Ken


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## rpdjr45 (Jul 28, 2007)

*Most people score better on the unmarked course.*

It is ironic, but most people shoot better on the unmarked course than they do on the marked course, or day. I did. I was told by Applegate that it was normal. The theory is that because it is unmarked, the archer shoots more carefully. As for why the unmarked? If you are in the field hunting you don't have yardage/meter markers in the ground, do you. You use your best intelligence and skill. As for using scopes and range finders. You might get to peer through scope, but range finders are disqualification. In FITA you are allowed to draw and let down once. You must shoot on the second draw. You may not just hold out the bow and try and use marks on the bow as a range finder. And I would rather shoot three arrows. One less opportunity to have to go looking for a missed shot. The advantage we have in the desert is that it is easier to find the arrows. Just watch out for the cactus. And I've been stuck. Painful experience. Now I carry a comb in my quiver to pull the needles out. Oh, and one day there was a rattlers. But that is a different story.


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## CHPro (May 21, 2002)

> In FITA you are allowed to draw and let down once. You must shoot on the second draw.


Are you sure about this? I didn't think FITA field had a limit on the number of times you could draw the bow and let down, but rather, used a time limit to keep things moving along if a group was causing back-ups?

Hadn't heard about the new scoring though. Interesting change. Kind of a hybrid between the older days when only the "x" counted as a 5 for compounds with the rest of the yellow and first black ring scoring 4 and the current scoring where the entire yellow is now 5 for both compounds and recurves.

I believe WI is going to try hosting a marked FITA field this year and continue it going forward annually - no details yet, but will try to remember to post something here on AT once we work things out.

>>------->


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## mdbowhunter (Oct 22, 2002)

Mr. October said:


> I've always wanted to try FITA Field. I've read about it and thought it sounded like fun. I may try to make the MD shoot Jerry speaks of. Jerry . . . let me know when that is if you wouldn't mind.
> 
> Also . . on the unmarked half . . I understand that it is unmarked but are there prescribed distances? In other words is there 1 target at 10 meter, 1 at 15, 20, and so forth (or some other pattern . . I'm just using random numbers). Or are they completely unmarked like a 3d course?
> 
> At such a point when we get our field course built, I'm VERY tempted to have a FITA Field shoot when we get the target butts done and before we mark the course. It would be easy. I can see why a lot of clubs don't do FITA Field though 'cause most probably have fairly permanent markers for the regular field course which would make the unmarked part tough.


No problem Pete. You would be more than welcome to attend. We shoot the marked format. The MD State FITA Field Championship has been on Labor Day the past three years. Not the best day for a shoot, but it is one of the few open dates. I'll try and remember to keep you updated next summer.


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## Man-n-Pink (Nov 7, 2006)

*Just introduced to field*

I got introduced to field this summer. Nfaa version. I have often wandered what the black and gold targets were for. Now I know. Our state has outdoor fita state, but its shot at 70 meters. I'm not for sure if there is a fita field round here in Indiana.


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## Bownut61 (Dec 15, 2007)

I just can't get excited about this. Hate to sound narrow minded and afraid to try something new, cause that's so not like me. But, the reason I don't shoot 3D is I like an even playing field where the best archer wins. I never wanted to get beat by some guy who can't shoot a bow very well but happened to judge distance better than me. 

I understand that you can gauge the distances but sounds like a headache. As for less shooting less arrows? This comes up all the time. Especially with our State Target Championships here in Pa. We shoot a 1200 round ( 120 scoreable shots ) on Saturday and then the regular 900 round on Sunday. Many are up in arms about this and trying to get it changed. Point is the current format separates the men from the boys. Just my 2 cents.


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## rudeman (Jan 25, 2006)

My signature says "support and promote all forms of archery" and that, I do. I just hate that, when there's already a crying need for more field archers that the numbers get further watered down by having competing organizations put on competing events.

I'm all for FITA and I participate in a bunch of their shoots. I just wish that, somehow, FITA would simply recognize the NFAA Field as the standard format and, therefore, be able to crown true state, regional and national Field Champions. Instead, some states have an NFAA state championship and some also have a FITA state championship and it seems to water down a sport that already is running pretty thin.

Maybe a compromise? Alternate each year which org runs the State Championship and run it under their respective rules? Just a thought.

As a final thought - I'm against reducing the number of arrows shot, period. It's the main reason I've switched to Field!!


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## 442fps (Dec 23, 2003)

> rpdjr45
> In FITA you are allowed to draw and let down once. You must shoot on the second draw.


No , wrong , there's a time limit , 4 minutes at the moment , 3 minutes next year after the change to the 6 scoring , but you can let down as often as you want .

Btw , best scoring ever was a shooter from Danmark , Nils Baldur , one of the world's best field shooters .
If i remember it right , it was at the good ol days were only the X counted 5 for compound shooters , with the new scoring system it would have been a 431 out of the 432 .


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## mdbowhunter (Oct 22, 2002)

Mr. October said:


> Agreed Jbird . . never ONCE have I wanted to shoot LESS arrows. Usually the problem is "I promise honey . . I'll be home after just a few more shots".


If your wife is anything like mine, she figured this one out a *LONG* time ago...:wink:


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## Bownut61 (Dec 15, 2007)

rudeman said:


> My signature says "support and promote all forms of archery" and that, I do. I just hate that, when there's already a crying need for more field archers that the numbers get further watered down by having competing organizations put on competing events.
> 
> I'm all for FITA and I participate in a bunch of their shoots. I just wish that, somehow, FITA would simply recognize the NFAA Field as the standard format and, therefore, be able to crown true state, regional and national Field Champions. Instead, some states have an NFAA state championship and some also have a FITA state championship and it seems to water down a sport that already is running pretty thin.
> 
> ...


Good point!!! I'm with ya on that one!!!


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

rudeman said:


> My signature says "support and promote all forms of archery" and that, I do. I just hate that, when there's already a crying need for more field archers that the numbers get further watered down by having competing organizations put on competing events.
> 
> I'm all for FITA and I participate in a bunch of their shoots. I just wish that, somehow, FITA would simply recognize the NFAA Field as the standard format and, therefore, be able to crown true state, regional and national Field Champions. Instead, some states have an NFAA state championship and some also have a FITA state championship and it seems to water down a sport that already is running pretty thin.
> 
> ...


Although that kind of makes sense....by your way of thinking the NFAA shouldn't have a state 3D tourny then....nor should each state have an ASA state shoot and an IBO state shoot. 

There are the same or similar but each different in their own way. FITA field isn't NFAA field they are similar....but not the same.


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## Jbird (May 21, 2002)

*I Wouldn't Worry*

About FITA Field cutting into NFAA Field participation. Unless you live in one of the places where there are a lot of FITA nerds you are unlikely to even see one event per year. Actually I would like the opportunity to be a FITA nerd myself but there isn't enough FITA stuff going on around here to make it worth getting involved.
Jbird


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## rudeman (Jan 25, 2006)

> by your way of thinking the NFAA shouldn't have a state 3D tourny then....nor should each state have an ASA state shoot and an IBO state shoot.


Yes. In fact, that IS my way of thinking. No need for NFAA to do 3D. No need for *BOTH *ISO and ASA to have 3D champs. Let them alternate, also (if they both really need to stay separate orgs.) Too many competing orgs doing the same things.


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

rudeman said:


> Yes. In fact, that IS my way of thinking. No need for NFAA to do 3D. No need for *BOTH *ISO and ASA to have 3D champs. Let them alternate, also (if they both really need to stay separate orgs.) Too many competing orgs doing the same things.


I truely do understand what you are saying but the IBO and ASA game although both are 3D they are completely different. If I still shot a lot of 3D and the org took turns I would only shoot the championship every other year. I do not like the IBO...that goes for the org itself, the way the shoots are run...the scoring system....the bino rule....nothing. 

Should we not have a D 2 football champion either :wink:


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## rudeman (Jan 25, 2006)

> Should we not have a D 2 football champion either


Sure we should. The correct analogy would be that we shouldn't have 2 D1 champions!! (Well, then again, we sometimes do, don't we? :wink


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## 442fps (Dec 23, 2003)

> rudeman
> 
> I'm all for FITA and I participate in a bunch of their shoots. I just wish that, somehow, FITA would simply recognize the NFAA Field as the standard format


Why should they ?

FITA Field format is used worldwide , as an example , her in Europe , in all the different countries , through an outdor season you have hundreds and hundreds of FITA Field shots , IFAA format you have only some nationals in Germany , UK , Italy .... ,altogether maybe less than 10 .

Numbers of shooters in the IFAA events , a few hundred .

Numbers of FITA Field shooters , thousands and thousands .


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## Paramecium (Apr 13, 2006)

442fps said:


> Numbers of FITA Field shooters , thousands and thousands .


Hi 

do you really think that there is such a vast amount of field archers here in Europe? I always felt that archery is a rather exotic pastime in Europe.


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## 442fps (Dec 23, 2003)

> Paramecium Hi
> 
> do you really think that there is such a vast amount of field archers here in Europe? I always felt that archery is a rather exotic pastime in Europe.


Just an example from France where i live ( at the moment :wink: ) ,

IFAA ( NFAA ) in France has around 500 members , on the french IFAA nationals you have less than 100 shooters competing in the different categories and styles .

On the other side the french FITA has around 60 thousand members , competing in field championships they have around 3000 .

That's not much compared to FITA , but on the other side it's 300 times more in Fita Field than in IFAA field .

And isn't it the same in Germany ?

I left Germany a couple of years ago , but also the German FITA has somewhere around 50 to 55 thousand members , the German IFAA how much ? 

1500 or 1600 ?

Same for Italy , 60thousand shooters in the FITA , how many in IFAA ?

Archery is a small sport , it will always be a small sport , Field is one of the smallest parts in Archery . Why ?

Cause it's much easier to move you overweighted and fat body straight on at 70 meters on an even , straight Fita Field , than to do a range with several miles , uphill , downhill .

Please , no missunderstanding , nothing against people who are a bit too heavy , i myself have a few pounds too much , no , i'm not fat , i'm only not tall enough for my weight :wink: .

In the last 6 years i travelled around in Europe due to my work in the Archery business , i myself shot competitions in Germany , Austria , Switzerland , Italy , France , Spain , UK ........and it's the same thing that i see everywhere .

One problem of Archery is that lot's of people didn't recognize Archery as a sport . Why ?

Look at the shooters in competitions , doesn't matter if man , woman , children ?

In which sport on earth you can see so many "unsportive" looking people than in Archery ? Might be in a chess competition ?

Every year beginning of Octobre , the shooting clubs here in France go back to the indoor shooting areas , it's fantastic , cause most clubs have indoor areas that they can use every day , the whole week long . That's the reason why we always have around 40 to 50 beginners who are interested in Archery starting at this time of the year . In average , from adults there are 15/20 percent who are still shooting 4 weeks later , children run around 4/5 percent . When i look at the beginners i always think " dammed , for archery we get only people who are absolutely not able to do something else " , after the indoor season , when outdoor comes close , we could hear questions like : but outdoors , it can rain , it can be cold , it can be hot , are you still shooting ?

Or take a look at an average FITA area through a competition , what do you see ?

I see Familys and single shooters who drive as close to the shooting lanes as possible to unload their cars , and then i see barbecues , coolers , umbrellas against the sun , tents against wind or maybe rain and the comfortable chairs to lay down  and they call it sport 

Tell these guys to move their asses to a Field range or to a 3D range , and they will tell you that this isn't Archery , cause Archery is target at marked ditances , FITA , everything else is only flinging arrows around , hoping they will arrive on the target .

So yes , one point you're right , Archery is a bit exotic , and it will never change , there are too many other things to spend your time with , than practicing , practicing .....


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## Paramecium (Apr 13, 2006)

Interessting post thanks!


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

I got all wrapped up in the debate and forgot that I hadn't commented on FITA Field.:doh:

All I know is that unless I am at the beach Labor day weekend I will be @ Jerry's club . I have been wanting to shoot this round since I saw the first pics from a round a few years ago. Some of the shots I have seen are just ridiculous :thumb: I wish that Dudley's site wasn't secure so that I could post some of his pics....simply incredible...they aren't your daddy's or (JBirds ) field course :faint:


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## mdbowhunter (Oct 22, 2002)

Brown Hornet said:


> I got all wrapped up in the debate and forgot that I hadn't commented on FITA Field.:doh:
> 
> All I know is that unless I am at the beach Labor day weekend I will be @ Jerry's club . I have been wanting to shoot this round since I saw the first pics from a round a few years ago. Some of the shots I have seen are just ridiculous :thumb: I wish that Dudley's site wasn't secure so that I could post some of his pics....simply incredible...they aren't your daddy's or (JBirds ) field course :faint:


We would love to have you there Hornet! :wink:

If memory serves (questionable these days ) most of the FITA Field targets are scaled pretty close to the NFAA type. Except, there is one target that is about the size of the Bunny that gets shot at close to 30 yards!!!


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## Jbird (May 21, 2002)

*Hornet*

Don't go to the beach. Go to Jerry's shoot, you don't need to work on your tan. As far as Field courses go, come on up here to New England and I'll show you some field courses. The only difference is the temperature will be 70-80 degrees. :darkbeer:
Jbird


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

Jbird said:


> Don't go to the beach. Go to Jerry's shoot, you don't need to work on your tan. As far as Field courses go, come on up here to New England and I'll show you some field courses. The only difference is the temperature will be 70-80 degrees. :darkbeer:
> Jbird


 :thumb:

I wouldn't be going to work on the tan....I would be going to go fishing :wink:

Actually now that I think about it that maybe the weekend that I will be gone for a wedding :doh:


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## rudeman (Jan 25, 2006)

> As far as Field courses go, come on up here to New England and I'll show you some field courses.


Yes, we've got some pretty good courses here in Massachusetts! And, we have a field/hunter shoot scheduled every weekend from May to September! Check out the Outdoor schedule on http://www.mfaa-archery.org/. Proud to say we have a pretty active state organization here!!

C'mon up sometime!


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## Dave T (Mar 24, 2004)

BH,

The fish will still be there. Tell the people to get married some other time, you have an archery tourney to go to. Try FITA Field. It isn't better than NFAA/IFAA Field, but it's a new and different flavor of the same great idea.

Dave


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

Dave T said:


> BH,
> 
> The fish will still be there. Tell the people to get married some other time, you have an archery tourney to go to. Try FITA Field. It isn't better than NFAA/IFAA Field, but it's a new and different flavor of the same great idea.
> 
> Dave


I know the fish will be there...but technically the targets will be also:wink:

But if I miss the wedding....I won't be :embara: I don't think my best friend would let me make it another 24hrs if his best man wasn't at the wedding....and that is only if his fiancée, mom and my mom didn't get to me first. She did just get a new .357 and she showed me how well she shoots it this past weekend


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## mdbowhunter (Oct 22, 2002)

Brown Hornet said:


> I know the fish will be there...but technically the targets will be also:wink:
> 
> But if I miss the wedding....I won't be :embara: I don't think my best friend would let me make it another 24hrs if his best man wasn't at the wedding....and that is only if his fiancée, mom and my mom didn't get to me first. She did just get a new .357 and she showed me how well she shoots it this past weekend


You're right Hornet. The targets will always be there. I missed the Maryland State Field Championship this past August because my son got married. The groom's Mother said my attendance at the wedding was required. :wink:


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## SuperX (May 21, 2002)

Marcus said:


> I have shot unmarked FITA Field once in 10 years.  It just is not shot in Australia, always marked instead.
> 
> I really liked it, but the new scoring being proposed of a 6 ring will put me off shooting it. I'll likely just shoot FITA Target and indoor now.


I can not find anything about a 6 ring being in the rules for 2007 - there is one mention of it on fieldarcher.org but otherwise nothing. I wouldn't let that stop you, it will probably never happen - people like shoot offs and it is a rare bit of excitement in archery that the 6 ring would likely reduce. (IMHO)


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## SuperX (May 21, 2002)

I BOW 2 said:


> The biggest problem with the unmarked FITA is where are you going to find enough clubs that 1) have the land to build a fresh course every year for a one time use and 2) have the man power willing to do it!?!?!? Ken


the beauty of Fita Field is that the course doesn't have to be groomed or well maintained (but they do need to be safe). In some shoots you even need crampons to climb from target to target. You can have a flag trail through the woods with temporary targets that you pull after the event. Footing can be trecherous (in fact that is always preferred ) and target placement can take advantage of terrain a club wouldn't normally consider for 3D or NFAA type shoots. 

It still is a good bit of work - you have that right - but so is any other shoot you would put on. It is just that most clubs have already made the major investments and now the work is mainly mowing trimming and putting up fresh butts and target faces as needed.


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## Dave T (Mar 24, 2004)

SuperX said:


> I can not find anything about a 6 ring being in the rules for 2007 - there is one mention of it on fieldarcher.org but otherwise nothing. I wouldn't let that stop you, it will probably never happen - people like shoot offs and it is a rare bit of excitement in archery that the 6 ring would likely reduce. (IMHO)


Super,

It is a done deal. FITA says the rule change should be posted on their web site by February and will go into effect April 2008. This from a member of the FITA Board's rules committee as posted on another archery forum (Archery Interchange UK).

I don't like it and in fact, don't see the need for it. Counting Xs will break any ties if they are actually a problem. That being said, I don't understand the change in scoring being so big a deal to keep Marcus from shooting it. Nothing will change except the numbers. 18 possible/target instead of 15. 432 possible for 24 targets instead of 360. Yea, it's different but not different enough to do in the challenge and fun of shooting FITA Field.

To each his or her own...

Dave


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

Bownut61 said:


> I just can't get excited about this. Hate to sound narrow minded and afraid to try something new, cause that's so not like me. But, the reason I don't shoot 3D is I like an even playing field where the best archer wins. I never wanted to get beat by some guy who can't shoot a bow very well but happened to judge distance better than me.


I'm going to have to disagree. Estimating distances very well is, IMO, part of shooting a bow "very well." But you have stated your dislike of 3D fairly, it doesn't coincide with your skill set which doesn't include highly accurate distance estimation. The 3D guys might well say "I like an even playing field where the best archer wins. I never wanted to get beat by some guy who can't judge distance very well but happened to group better than me." Archery includes at least two important aspects for competition, grouping and getting that group to land on the right part of the target. Your position could just as easily be aimed at people who always hit the gold, saying that you want the "better" archer to win (smaller groups) not the one who happens to be better at aiming and/or distance estimation, wind calculation, humidity compensation, whatever.

I think we all tend to like rules that favor our own talents. BTW, I'm terrible at estimating range but I really respect people who are good at it because it is so critical to unmarked archery and hunting. I see my lack of skill at range estimation as something to work on and not something to blame others for. And I don't think that FITA field is for me because the distance estimation tricks are highly technical based on the use of standardized targets with in certain distance ranges. But I'm not going to claim that I'm skipping FITA field because it doesn't reward the "better" archer--the contrary. I know that it does and it isn't me!


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## SuperX (May 21, 2002)

Dave T said:


> Super,
> 
> It is a done deal. FITA says the rule change should be posted on their web site by February and will go into effect April 2008. This from a member of the FITA Board's rules committee as posted on another archery forum (Archery Interchange UK).
> 
> ...



wow, total stealth mode on this one - you can't find an thing about it even being under consideration on the USA site or FITA site (at least I can't find anything)


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## CHPro (May 21, 2002)

SuperX, I assume you need to go to the most recently proposed by-law changes to see the proposal. I did note out on the FITA website in their most recent on-line newsletter that a by-law proposal to score the x-ring as 6 passed -- as did reducing the shooting time from 4min per target to 3min. No big highlighted sections or news item placed on the NAA website that I can see outlining these FITA by-law changes.

>>------->


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## Guest (Dec 19, 2007)

Warbow said:


> I'm going to have to disagree. Estimating distances very well is, IMO, part of shooting a bow "very well."
> 
> 
> The problem with that logic is that you never need a bow to judge distance but you do need one to shoot archery.


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## wa-prez (Sep 9, 2006)

Here is where I read the change -- FITA's Newsletter Nov 2007. http://www.archery.org/ 

"Bylaw changes
...
 For Field Archery several bylaws were submitted in order to reduce the shooting time as well as make the rounds more competitive. The rules that were approved are to change the scoring for all divisions and the X that was formerly only used to break ties will now be scored as 6. The shooting time for the 3 arrows in all parts of the competition will be reduced to 3 minutes. The scoring change combined with the stricter time limitation will make the rounds more challenging and reduce the number of ties. These rules will be used at the next World Championships which is also the qualifier for the next World Games. ..."

I guess it is important to keep looking back at the FITA site for the latest info. FYI, the path to that link (from www.archery.org main page) choose "News" then "Newsletters". Looks like they put out a new "Newsletter" every month, and some of the recent changes are REALLY significant.


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

Sean McKenty said:


> Warbow said:
> 
> 
> > I'm going to have to disagree. Estimating distances very well is, IMO, part of shooting a bow "very well."
> ...


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## Guest (Dec 19, 2007)

Warbow said:


> Sean McKenty said:
> 
> 
> > I don't need a bow to aim, either but I do need a bow to launch an arrow.
> ...


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## Mr. October (Feb 15, 2003)

Jbird said:


> People who regularly participate in FITA Field are not really shooting unknown distances. They have developed a system based on target size and knowing what the distance range is for each target is. They then use their scopes and target size to nail the yardage down. This system is called gauging and there are numerous places on the net and in archery magazines that teach you how to do it. The problem is that it takes a while to commit it all to memory and who is going to mess with it to shoot one shoot a year? I feel sure they could up the participation here in the US and other places as well if they would make both days marked yardage. If it was all known yardage it would make an excellent alternate field round for clubs as it takes less time,
> less arrows, and less real estate. I would still prefer the NFAA/IFAA standard field round but every time the discussion comes up there are always a bunch of pin heads that think we could grow Field archery if there were less arrows to be shot in a round and the distances were simplified. I don't agree. People who are interested in shooting spots outdoors have no trouble adapting to the standard field round and most of us like to shoot a bunch of arrows after we get there. Just my .02
> Jbird





Warbow said:


> I'm going to have to disagree. Estimating distances very well is, IMO, part of shooting a bow "very well." But you have stated your dislike of 3D fairly, it doesn't coincide with your skill set which doesn't include highly accurate distance estimation. The 3D guys might well say "I like an even playing field where the best archer wins. I never wanted to get beat by some guy who can't judge distance very well but happened to group better than me." Archery includes at least two important aspects for competition, grouping and getting that group to land on the right part of the target. Your position could just as easily be aimed at people who always hit the gold, saying that you want the "better" archer to win (smaller groups) not the one who happens to be better at aiming and/or distance estimation, wind calculation, humidity compensation, whatever.
> 
> I think we all tend to like rules that favor our own talents. BTW, I'm terrible at estimating range but I really respect people who are good at it because it is so critical to unmarked archery and hunting. I see my lack of skill at range estimation as something to work on and not something to blame others for. And I don't think that FITA field is for me because the distance estimation tricks are highly technical based on the use of standardized targets with in certain distance ranges. But I'm not going to claim that I'm skipping FITA field because it doesn't reward the "better" archer--the contrary. I know that it does and it isn't me!


These days who doesn't own & use laser rangefinders for hunting? Snipers certainly do! Around here you don't need to be good at estimating yardage for 3d 'cause all the shooters whine if there are too many targets over 30 yards. 

Yes, range estimation definitely has a place in shooting (bow or otherwise) which is kinda why I like the idea of FITA field. As far as hunting, if you can't estimate yardage accurately enough to kill an animal cleanly you'd BETTER have a rangefinder.


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## Marcus (Jun 19, 2002)

Dave T said:


> I don't like it and in fact, don't see the need for it. Counting Xs will break any ties if they are actually a problem. That being said, I don't understand the change in scoring being so big a deal to keep Marcus from shooting it. Nothing will change except the numbers. 18 possible/target instead of 15. 432 possible for 24 targets instead of 360. Yea, it's different but not different enough to do in the challenge and fun of shooting FITA Field.


I don't like playing games where they have a great system going, then they change for change's sake and make it into something that only favours the top guys. 
Archery has the OBSESSION with trying to make it's game difficult to follow and with alienating the average guy. 
I shoot alright, usually in the 340's with the odd 350 round, but this system will simply widen the gap between the top and the also ran. 
A 5 point win to a top shooter will turn into a 20 point win. What does that achieve except say to the pack shooters "see, before you thought you were getting good at this, but we have shown you that you suck"

Consider this. Previously 15's were very possible. A 320 level shoot would get the odd 15. Now even a 18 on a 10m bugseye is not easy and many will shoot the odd round now without getting one clean target. 
I shot with a dude who shot about a 330 and he cleaned about 6 targets in a row. He became very hyped and was clearly enjoying the success. It was great to watch. That's what's important in archery. 

Now some people will think "no, it's only changed X's to 6's, so it's the same, just a point boost". But as we saw in 3D when they changed the X to teh 11 ring, suddenly 10's were not good enough anymore. Now 5's are not good enough. Now everytime we miss the 6 we will know we dropped points. The game just got harder FOR NO GOOD REASON. 

FITA have taken a great field game and just killed it.


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## Marcus (Jun 19, 2002)

Warbow: Unmarked FITA Field is only a small part of the game. It's also not unmarked because the targets are grouped so you know that a certain face is between X and Y metres, and then if you spend 30min developing a guaging system you will be scoring higher on it than the marked round.


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

Mr. October said:


> These days who doesn't own & use laser rangefinders for hunting? Snipers certainly do! Around here you don't need to be good at estimating yardage for 3d 'cause all the shooters whine if there are too many targets over 30 yards.
> 
> Yes, range estimation definitely has a place in shooting (bow or otherwise) which is kinda why I like the idea of FITA field. As far as hunting, if you can't estimate yardage accurately enough to kill an animal cleanly you'd BETTER have a rangefinder.


You are quite right. Snipers often do have range finders. Some times they even have spotters with rage-finders. But good snipers also know how to estimate range if they have to.



Sean McKenty said:


> And none of what you just said is shooting archery either


Sigh... Among the things I talked about were aiming and good archery form. Odd to find out that they have nothing to do with "shooting archery." Koreans practice archery for months before they ever get to even touch a bow. You gonna say that isn't archery either?

Keep in mind that I was responding to Bownut61, who claims he doesn't like shooting 3D is because he "like{s} an even playing field where the best archer wins. {He} never wanted to get beat by some guy who can't shoot a bow very well but happened to judge distance better than {himself}."

Bownut61 apparently doesn't like a competition that is stacked in favor of the guy who can hit the target in the high scoring ring since Bownut 61 doesn't consider the person who does that to be the "better" archery. I have to disagree. The guy who hits where he is supposed to _is _the better archer.


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## Dave T (Mar 24, 2004)

Marcus said:


> I don't like playing games where they have a great system going, then they change for change's sake and make it into something that only favours the top guys.
> Archery has the OBSESSION with trying to make it's game difficult to follow and with alienating the average guy.
> I shoot alright, usually in the 340's with the odd 350 round, but this system will simply widen the gap between the top and the also ran.
> A 5 point win to a top shooter will turn into a 20 point win. What does that achieve except say to the pack shooters "see, before you thought you were getting good at this, but we have shown you that you suck"
> ...


Marcus, I agree with you on virtually every point you made. I don't see any benefit and considerable possible damage. I just don't intend to quit shooting the few FITA Field events I can find because of it. I love to shoot field archery...both kinds! (smiley face goes here)

The arguments against FITA Field because of the unmarked half kind of remind me of the arguments I get against NFAA Field when I invite people to try it. They always bring up the 80 yard target as a reason not to shoot field. One arrow keeps them from shooting the other 110. Silly.

Back to FITA Field, as Marcus said nearly everyone who does this has a ranging system and most do better on the first day (un-marked) than on the second marked day.

Dave


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## Guest (Dec 20, 2007)

Sigh... Among the things I talked about were aiming and good archery form. Odd to find out that they have nothing to do with "shooting archery." Koreans practice archery for months before they ever get to even touch a bow. You gonna say that isn't archery either?



If they ain't touching a bow then of course they are not shooting archery, praticing form,aiming etc is applied to the shooting of the bow, guessing distance has zero effect on shooting the bow.


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## Jbird (May 21, 2002)

*I Agree*

With Marcus. This change in scoring will likely have the same effect that changing the NFAA Field target size and scoring rings did back in the 70's. I also agree with Sean. Range estimation has zip to do with archery and very little to do with hunting. Every bow hunter I know ranges the trees and fence lines around his stand and knows how far the deer are when they walk out. Archery is done with a bow. Range estimation is a surveying skill. Many archers have no interest in surveying.
Jbird


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## centerx (Jun 13, 2002)

While I certainty enjoy a nice round of 3-D this need to 100% guess the yardage is unique only to that discipline

No other shooting sport makes you “guess” yardage, not rifle competitions, handgun completions or skeet 

As mentioned even “unmarked” Fita Field groups targets as to distance to allow some “hints” as to the yardage after that all you need to do is use your equipment to develop your range finding method of choice. Not only is it allowed many who shoot it will give you tips on how 

Even hunters have long used methods to pre determine distance. I used to pace off landmarks from my tree stand.. Now I use a laser.

3-D is the odd man out on this concept. While at one time it may have been a useful application it has not grown with the times. It it’s current format it serves no real purpose

If a 3-D competition wanted to grow with the times they would run there competitions like real life. Whitail targets would be marked and/or near a marked “landmark” with the archer only needing to close the gap

Turkey targets would always be around 20 yards or closer

Antelope targets would be frequently found around 40 and frequently unmarked with an occasional marked target thrown in

I would love to see a club run a “real” 3-d that truly mimics the hunting experience. As more and more hunters adopt modern methods to find distance and make clean kills the old school 3-d will fade away


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## Mr. October (Feb 15, 2003)

centerx said:


> While I certainty enjoy a nice round of 3-D this need to 100% guess the yardage is unique only to that discipline
> 
> No other shooting sport makes you “guess” yardage, not rifle competitions, handgun completions or skeet
> 
> ...


Not completely true Centerx . . Air Rifle Field competitions make you guess yardage. Actually, you calculate yardage using your scope. Still . . you better get it right. 

Also . . remember the roots of field archery. Basically it evolved from the old stump shooting game which was pretty much unknown distances. 

I don't mind guessing distances in 3d. I do it well enough to make killing shots. I just think the bodies of rules governing 3d are too pre-occupied with keeping people from cheating at knowing the yardage. I think it will reach a point where the game will be far better served by letting people know the distances.


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## mdbowhunter (Oct 22, 2002)

*Right on Marcus!*

Marcus,
You make some great points. I will *NEVER* understand why these archery organizations strive to increase the separation between shooters. In virtually every archery game: Indoors, Field, FITA, 3-D you have an X ring to eliminate a tie. Use it and leave the scoring alone!!! IMHO every time this has been done, participation has suffered as a result. How many times are these organizations gonna repeat the same mistake before they learn?  I just don't get it...


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## Marcus (Jun 19, 2002)

Thanks for the comments. 

In Australia unmarked FITA Field has virtually died off. Our National Field is a double marked round and my state's field is a double marked as well. I like the unmarked round, but with it being dropped field has boomed here. Our State Fields are getting between 70-90 people. Not bad. 

What worries me with this new FITA rule is this. Why were we, the archers, not consulted? Surely FITA should have surveyed this. Most I have talked to hate the idea. This strikes me as showing that the FITA delegates are out of touch.


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## mdbowhunter (Oct 22, 2002)

Marcus said:


> What worries me with this new FITA rule is this. Why were we, the archers, not consulted? Surely FITA should have surveyed this. Most I have talked to hate the idea. This strikes me as showing that the FITA delegates are out of touch.


You're making a dangerous assumption that the majority should decide. :zip: How often have you seen that happen?


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## centerx (Jun 13, 2002)

*Not completely true Centerx . . Air Rifle Field competitions make you guess yardage. Actually, you calculate yardage using your scope. Still . . you better get it right. 

Also . . remember the roots of field archery. Basically it evolved from the old stump shooting game which was pretty much unknown distances. *


Ahhh.. I guess I did forget field air rifle. I always thought that looked fun . However again yardage calculations are allowed and encouraged. In 3-D it's taboo and in fact so many rules are designed to stop it takes away from the "average" person getting involved 

No doubt the original versions of these games were unmarked .because they had to be . However EVERY shooting discipline has embraced more accurate means of punching holes and taking game. Long bow to fiberglass bow to sights to compound to laser range finding. Same with rifles with the latest having laser built right into the scope

It's safe to say the masses embrace improvements. However 3-d is not allowing what the masses are embracing . This results in the elitist few being able to compete with more and more choosing the "fun version" of a non competitive outing What hunter who keeps a laser range finder dangling form his neck and keeps his shots under 30 really has fun hoping and poking past that on a hot steamy July afternoon??

3-D needs to adopt a class system that will keep varying skill levels happy. Or they need to allow rangefinding but without any "range finders" designated specifically for that purpose… If a Joe can narrow the distance down to all but 5 yards using his binoculars who cares?? Instead we rule out anything bigger then 8 power ??


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## Guest (Dec 20, 2007)

When ever they (Fita) does this type of thing it never works out, they don't seem to realise that archery needs a large pool to draw the HP archers from, dry that up with unnecessary rules. Fita had a target previous that had different size rings and was grey/black/white they made continous rule changes both in scoring /distance since that time the only time a fita field round is shot in Ontario is when the Nationals are here once every 4-5 years. Now with this change only the high end archers will like it but the pool of archers will dry up again, back to haveing a National Fita Field champs with 40 shooters. The IFAA round has been unchanged since the 1975 face change and they have no trouble finding winners


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## Mr. October (Feb 15, 2003)

centerx said:


> Ahhh.. I guess I did forget field air rifle. I always thought that looked fun . However again yardage calculations are allowed and encouraged. In 3-D it's taboo and in fact so many rules are designed to stop it takes away from the "average" person getting involved


I've always thought so too. I ALMOST bought an air rifle a couple years ago to start fooling with this but then decided the last thing I needed was another expensive, time consuming sport! 

I definitely agree on the whole 3d rules regarding the obsession with keeping people from knowing yardage. It is WAY over the top.


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## Bownut61 (Dec 15, 2007)

Keep in mind that I was responding to Bownut61, who claims he doesn't like shooting 3D is because he "like{s} an even playing field where the best archer wins. {He} never wanted to get beat by some guy who can't shoot a bow very well but happened to judge distance better than {himself}."

Bownut61 apparently doesn't like a competition that is stacked in favor of the guy who can hit the target in the high scoring ring since Bownut 61 doesn't consider the person who does that to be the "better" archery. I have to disagree. The guy who hits where he is supposed to _is _the better archer.[/QUOTE] *By Warbow*

You make some really good points. Especially in your first reply. And so did everyone else. Love a good debate!! :teeth:Actually I'm not that bad at judging distance. At our state 3D in 06 I only went up 2 to 4 points on the marked half vs. the unmarked half. 

My point is this. Archery itself is very challenging both in required good form to hit what you're aiming at and maybe more so in the mental aspects. Being able to judge distance is archery competition is pointless IMO. There's a saying by some old archers in our area that is, " do you want to have a archery contest or a guessing contest " ? 

I find that most 3D shooters who think I'm a wimp for shooting marked yardage are totally intimidated by the distances and number of shots we shoot in PSAA/NFAA type competition. They fail to see the gratifying challenge in shooting long distance and the mental aspects it takes to shoot like a machine in order to be competitive for 112 shots. 

In the end to each his own I guess. Just my 2!!


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

Mr. October said:


> I just think the bodies of rules governing 3d are too pre-occupied with keeping people from cheating at knowing the yardage. I think it will reach a point where the game will be far better served by letting people know the distances.


I think _that_ is one of the best arguments I have heard for marked distances--that for serious competitors that it is difficult and impractical to keep the distance "secret."



Bownut61 said:


> Being able to judge distance is archery competition is pointless IMO. There's a saying by some old archers in our area that is, " do you want to have a archery contest or a guessing contest " ?
> 
> I find that most 3D shooters who think I'm a wimp for shooting marked yardage are totally intimidated by the distances and number of shots we shoot in PSAA/NFAA type competition. They fail to see the gratifying challenge in shooting long distance and the mental aspects it takes to shoot like a machine in order to be competitive for 112 shots.
> 
> In the end to each his own I guess. Just my 2!!


I think the "guessing contest" quote is an interesting one. I don't think you are "wrong" to not be interested in unmarked yardages. I think everyone should enjoy archery in whatever form they like (well, without endangering people--gotta have some limits). And I think you bring up a valid point about the guessing game thing. But I think both the long distances and the unmarked yardages are challenges for a complete archer and I think they are both part of archery but you aren't required to participate or enjoy all parts of archery.


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## Dave T (Mar 24, 2004)

Bownut61,

I've run into exactly the same thing. For over a year I tried to get 3D types to try the monthly field shoot I was putting on. Time and again the reasons for not trying it were (1) targets were too far away and (2) it called for too many arrows to be shot. Oh yea, and another excuse was it wasn't good practice for hunting (I got a chuckle out of that one).

Because of those excuses for not shooting NFAA field, I always thought FITA Field might appeal to those folks more. Less arrows, bigger targets and shorter ranges. In the real world, turn out for FITA field is worse than it is for NFAA field.

Such is the state of 21st Century archery.

Dave


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## Bownut61 (Dec 15, 2007)

*Dave T*

Sounds all too familier. In brief, I worked my way out of the backyard self taught bad form, and started shooting paper deer targets and 3D at a local club. I became a little better shot. Then I went indoors at the club I'm in now and got into the PSAA and started shooting Field and Target rounds. Then I got a whole lot better as an archer. The spot shooters club I joined had way more knowledgable people that taught me to shoot right. 

My point is that shooting a bow right is essential to shooting good scores whether it be marked yardage or not. Funny thing is those guys that stayed the 3D route never went anywhere or got better as archers. Alot of them don't even shoot anymore. So it would seem the spot shooter is the more hardcore. Why I don't know?? Maybe that's why I'm partial also to marked yardage and field rounds. In my experience the best of the best shoot it.

On another note we have a dealer that just put in a video shoot and runs leagues both summer and winter. Bowhunters came out of the woodwork to shoot it and wonder why I don't. I've never seen a better way to become a sloppy shooter than a video shoot!! Most of these guys will never get off that video range and learn how to shoot properly. I think it's sad. Reason being shooting well breeds success and the desire to do it again. It's good for the sport and the person shooting.

I hope I don't come across as preachy or an elitist. It's just an observation of my past. And, in the end target archery has done more for my accuracy in hunting situations and judging yardage on whitetails than anything else I've done. :zip:


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## Mr. October (Feb 15, 2003)

Bear in mind that the reason MOST 3d shooters (notice I said most . . not all) will not try any other form of target archery is because many are self taught or have no instruction other then what they got when they bought their bow. Unmarked yardage is a built in excuse to explain a terrible flinch. So many (as in most) have a terrible flinch. Instead of coming and shooting other forms of target archery and learning how to get rid of the problem they stick with 3d because they can hide behind range estimation. The rare times you do lure someone across to either field or indoor you hear "Those spots gave me target panic".  I can't COUNT the number of times I have heard that.


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## Bownut61 (Dec 15, 2007)

Mr. October!! You said a mouthful. I'm with ya on that!!!


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## Dave T (Mar 24, 2004)

Bownbut61,

To support your point about shooting at targets and particularly field, I have read several noted authorities saying field will make you a better archer. The one I remember most was an article in Archery magazine by Robert Ragsdale where he said shooting Field would make you a better bow hunter, a better 3D shooter and most interesting a better judge of distances. His claim was that after hundreds of time looking at the difference between 20, 25 and 30 yards, you will recognize those (and other) distances in the hunting field and on the 3D range.

Dave


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## Bownut61 (Dec 15, 2007)

Dave T

Makes all the sense in the world. I love your signature. By the way. I think Field Archery is coming back. In our state it seems to be anyway. Flood City Bowmen in Johnstown, Pa. runs a night owl league in the summer with their lighted field course. How cool is that!!?? Unfortunatly they are 2 hours away from me and shooting this on Tuesday nights like they do just isn't going to happen. I did attend their 900 Round the held in August. Lots of fun!!!!


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## Chopper94 (Jan 26, 2003)

FITA Field is the MOST CHALLENGING form of Field Archery there is. Especially when set in EXTREME terrain. I have had the chance to shoot NFAA courses here in Illinois and Wisconsin and have loved every bit of it. But I try to never pass up a chance to shoot at Don's in Ohio or with Jim and the Evergreen Archery club in Spokan. These folks know how to set up a FITA Field shoot! When you have to get from one target to the next and you have to use ropes and crampons to climb out of the valley you just shot into you know you are shooting a FITA Field event. 

I guess the thing that I love is that the Unmarked distance is not that big of a deal. The angles of shots really evens things out. You could be off by 5 meters on your estimate but you still have to make that 70 degree downward shot! Super X can attest to this. So I have never really seen anyone get beat badly by just the Unmarked distances. Usually the first day everyone getting used to shooting as such extreme angles. 

I love all forms of Field Archery. I love 3D Archery (which is where I got my start). I wish we could see more FITA Field Events here in the states but I do understand how difficult it is to set up a course like this. Anytime I can get in the woods and shoot my bow is all that really matters to me. Though FITA Field is addictive!

Happy Holidays!


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## Rchr (Jul 3, 2003)

Marcus said:


> What worries me with this new FITA rule is this. Why were we, the archers, not consulted?
> If they did that then would Recurve bows still be the only bow in the olympics? STOP, WAIT I don't want to change the subject.
> 
> This strikes me as showing that the FITA delegates are out of touch.


 Again, yes they are but..... don't want to go there again. 


Actually FITA Field is alot of fun. I have shot it a few times and I have enjoyed it maybe even more than NFAA field. I will tell you that IMHO it has been ruined by letting people estimate yardage by drawing and letting down and in that way allowing them to estimate yardage. In the old days you couldn't do that and it was more about guestimation. 

FITA Field is big in Europe and let me tell you that they do have excellent shooters. When I shot in there it was the most challenging tournament I have ever shot. 
I came out of that thing tired but as happy as a kid in a circus.

Rchr


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