# I can't see my Pin Sight in 18m HELP !



## Falkryus (May 17, 2013)

Hello guys, I have been shooting for 6 months and I just reached 1,002 points in a FITA the last Saturday........ but the indoor season is starting in my country and today I started to train at 18m but I just can't see my pin sight in 20m or less. I know this since I purchased an used HPX.

When I anchor the Pin Sight hides in the Riser. My coach and the other archers don't know why this happen to me. Some people have used my bow and they can see my pin without problems so maybe I'm the problem and the bow is fine.

Like I said I have
Hoyt HPX with F4 Limbs short #40
Shibuya RC 520 with Titan Recurve Pin Sight
Shibuya Ultima Rest
Shibuya Plunger
Easton Carbon One Arrows and ACC Arrows
Easton X10 Stabilizers
BCY 8125G 18 Strands

I also have a 
Hoyt Horizon Riser with 720 limbs short 36# but I don't have that problem with that bow

I'm not sure if this may help but:

I'm 20 years old
I'm 5'5" and I weight 120 lbs
My draw length is 27"

If you guys need something else to help me resolve my problem, something like a video of my technique just let me know. Please don't suggest me to use the Hoyt Horizon because after using an HPX I don't want to go back to that bow 

I'll be waiting for your replies, Thanks !


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## robin smith (Jun 6, 2011)

Check nock height and tiller.
Where do you anchore ( corner of mouth, under chin ect.) and what kind of string grip do you use (2 under, 3 split, 3 under, 2 spit).


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## Dacer (Jun 10, 2013)

this is indeed a curious problem. Perhaps you are aiming with your bow arm instead of bending at the torso ( which keeps your shoulder alignment ). 

I could see someone shooting a low target and lowering their bow arm instead of bending and losing view of the sight window.

If you have people around watching you and a coach i doubt this is the case however.


personally I'm impressed with the 40# limbs @your 5'5'' 120lb build.


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## dchan (Jun 29, 2004)

and where does your pin end up in relation to the riser (left right). If your windage is such that the pin is almost behind the riser (to the right) at the longer distances, and IIRC the Formula risers have a little more of a slope in at the top and of the sight window, your anchor, tune, centershot may be such that the pin is already too close to the riser and the shorter distance of 18M puts the pin just out of view.


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## dchan (Jun 29, 2004)

You are comparing 2 different bows with different geometry and different bow weights so that's not a good comparison. Depending on the arrows, and if the bow is setup correctly, the left right may be off.

You don't mention if you are trying to shoot the same spine arrows out of the 2 different bows. Weak arrows will tend to fly more to the right (right handed shooter) which would force you to move the sight pin to the right (behind the riser) If you are shooing the same arrows out of both bows, then it's possible your arrows are too weak for your 40lb rig. where they are about right for your 36lb rig.

too many variables to nail it down but we can keep sending suggestions..


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## Falkryus (May 17, 2013)

robin smith said:


> Check nock height and tiller.
> Where do you anchore ( corner of mouth, under chin ect.) and what kind of string grip do you use (2 under, 3 split, 3 under, 2 spit).


I anchore under chin and the string grip I use is 2 under


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## dchan (Jun 29, 2004)

2 under as in index and middle finger under the nock? or is it 1 over, 2 under (3 split)


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## Falkryus (May 17, 2013)

dchan said:


> 2 under as in index and middle finger under the nock? or is it 1 over, 2 under (3 split)


Please let me upload a picture of my form so you can have an idea of how I'm shooting.

EDIT: Picture of me shooting few weeks ago


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## dchan (Jun 29, 2004)

Was that shot taken just before release?

What I see in this image.

Alignment appears fair to good. (could get better) need an overhead or behind image to get a better idea.
Anchor as far as string making contact with your face in multiple locations looks pretty good however..
You don't have a solid anchor as far as jaw contact in that image. Looks like there is a gap between your index finger and your jaw. This will result in needing to raise your sight pin and may be part of the cause.

It may be an optical illusion but in that image the arrow and sight extension bar look to be diverging. Check your nock height and tiller as suggested. Generally at full draw, the sight bar should be pretty close to parallel with the arrow plane. 

One other thought. In that image it looks like the string bi-sects your face. string touching your nose right on the tip, (actually almost on the right side of your nose in the image but that may be optical as well)
With that alignment, your left eye, will be well inside of the string. What does the string blur look like for you. Is it even in your field of view?

If you have not been using the string blur as part of your alignment and sight window, this may be part of the problem as well. With the string well to the right of your left eye (aiming) your sight pin will need to be pushed well to the left and thus almost behind or actually behind the riser..

Other thing I see is your bow shoulder is a little high (not terribly but noticeable). without more context however I will reserve comment on that for later..


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## dchan (Jun 29, 2004)

And for future reference we consider that string hook and grip as 3 finger split.. or 1 over 2 under


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## Falkryus (May 17, 2013)

dchan said:


> Was that shot taken just before release?
> 
> What I see in this image.
> 
> ...


That picture was taken in September 11 and since before that date I've having the problem of the sight.

I've already fixed the gap between my fingers and my jaw and the alignment of the string in my nose. 

Thanks for seeing the divergence of the sight with the arrow, that could be a great problem that I've in my setup and anyone in my club have not noticed it.

Tomorrow I'll ask someone to take me some pictures of me shooting if you can check this back in a few hours I'll have more pictures, thanks for helping me :'(


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## dchan (Jun 29, 2004)

Don't count on it always being parallel. Check your nock height and tiller, then do some shooting including some bare shafts and see how the arrows fly and land (nock up, nock down, etc..) and adjust accordingly. (see the tuning guides)

It's not always just so, It's just something I noticed. and it could be an illusion as well from the angle of the picture taken. I am just pointing it out so you can check it out. 

Think about your sight image and string alignment and report that back to us.. It may be very revealing.


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## Vittorio (Jul 17, 2003)

The 25" Hpx has a window 1" shorter than a standard 25" ILF risers, and your face is slim and tall. No way you can shoot short distancies with that riser with anchor under the chin. This is a quite common problem for all those that have bought the RX or HPX riser referring to usual riser lenghts. A 25" HPX/RX is equivalent for window heigh to a 23" ILF riser, so you surely need a 27" HPX to solve your problem.


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## midwayarcherywi (Sep 24, 2006)

Vittorio said:


> The 25" Hpx has a window 1" shorter than a standard 25" ILF risers, and your face is slim and tall. No way you can shoot short distancies with that riser with anchor under the chin. This is a quite common problem for all those that have bought the RX or HPX riser referring to usual riser lenghts. A 25" HPX/RX is equivalent for window heigh to a 23" ILF riser, so you surely need a 27" HPX to solve your problem.


I've also seen this with a few shooters using an RX. They have a short window.


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## horndog (Jan 5, 2009)

Looks to me your sight is to far out. Try it at 6 inches It's simple geometry! You probably will not run out of elevation at long distance as a bonus. It will not effect your aim.


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## Falkryus (May 17, 2013)

Good morning, I'll try some things that you guys said and I'll post the results.


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## arrowchucker222 (Jun 17, 2013)

I found the problem!!! Your left handed!
No need to thank me, just trying to help.


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## Seattlepop (Dec 8, 2003)

Am I the only one who thinks the bow is simply being held too low? Some instruction on "reaching" for the target might help or perhaps the bow is just too heavy to hold up properly.


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## massman (Jun 21, 2004)

Sure Vittorio hit it on the nail. The length of the sight window on this riser is like shooting a 23" ILF riser. With his drawlength, and the sight extended out as far as it is you would loose the pin in the riser. As before suggested, Leave the pin where it is for 18M and bring the sight bar in towards the face of the bow until the pin is easily seen. You do not need the sight out that far to be accurate at 18m.

Regards,

Tom


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## Falkryus (May 17, 2013)

The brace height of the bow is in 7.5 inches and I adjusted both tillers in 7 inches and I don't know for what kind of reason at least now I can see the fiber optic of the pin. But I'm aiming to the 10 of a 18m target and the arrows are hitting 7 & 6 at 12 o'clock and the sight is all out and up. What do you guys think ? any other suggestion ?


Some picture of my shooting today trying to fix the problem.


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## Dacer (Jun 10, 2013)

You shoulder is Down but you are holding you arm really low. Part of the reason is you are not rotating your bow arm - you elbow is almost pointing to the ground it should be pointing horizontalish to the ground. 

Your anchor is really low and it seen you are only making contact with your figure and jaw right where your string hits your face. 
Also you are leaning back away from the target horizontally at the waist.


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## Seattlepop (Dec 8, 2003)

*Bow arm...*

View attachment 1809668


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## Falkryus (May 17, 2013)

Seattlepop said:


> View attachment 1809668


WOW My form is so damn wrong, How I can fix that ? I'm trying to anchor like some people have said but my bow arm tends to go that higher...


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## Seattlepop (Dec 8, 2003)

Falkryus said:


> WOW My form is so damn wrong, How I can fix that ? I'm trying to anchor like some people have said but my bow arm tends to go that higher...


I don't think your form is all that bad. It does seem this particular problem starts at your anchor. I don't know if a longer sight window would cure the problem seeing how far off your line of sight is, but I suppose you could try other bows to test it. It is generally recommended that you rotate your elbow clockwise as mentioned, but it isn't critical at this point - that isn't what is preventing you from seeing the aperture. Ki Bo Bae seems to get along fine. 

I would suggest you work with someone to change your head position to allow you to move your anchor off the center of your chin. This should allow you to raise your anchor somewhat. That would in turn allow you to raise your bow arm. I would try that first before having to buy new equipment at the very least. That would get you shooting, then work on the other "stuff".


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## wa-prez (Sep 9, 2006)

I'd think most benefit to be gained by raising your anchor point to just below the chin, or even on the jaw or mouth.

FITA shooters get into a low anchor so they can get the long outdoor distances, but now you need the other end of the scale.


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## chrstphr (Nov 23, 2005)

Seattlepop said:


> View attachment 1809668


you cant compare these two pictures. The top photo the Korean is shooting 70 meters and has his bow arm raised accordingly which changes the lines. The bottom photo he is shooting 20 yards and his arm is lower. If you are going to use something like that, you need a photo of someone shooting the same short 20 yard distance. 

I have a JOAD kid who shoots the same way as the OP. His bow shoulder is rolled back and low and not in alignment. That makes his arm bow much lower and bow arm appear bent when extended. He needs to change the alignment of his bow shoulder and move it up and inline and extend his bow arm like he would push a refrigerator out of the way. He doesnt need to change his anchor point or string placement or elbow.

and the sight window on the riser is too short. 






Chris


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## chrstphr (Nov 23, 2005)

here is a photo to compare of a Korean archer shooting 20 yards

View attachment 1810105



Chris


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## TheAncientOne (Feb 14, 2007)

Seattlepop said:


> Am I the only one who thinks the bow is simply being held too low? Some instruction on "reaching" for the target might help or perhaps the bow is just too heavy to hold up properly.


You are correct.

Several problems are evident with your bow arm. Your bow arm elbow is rotated down, for a left handed archer it should point to the side (at 3 o'clock). Your bow arm shoulder is way too high, it is a combination of the 40lb weight that you are trying to hold and your arm position. If you change your grip so that your bow hand knuckles are 45 degrees to the riser it should help. 

You stance should be balanced so that 50% of your weight is on each foot. You are leaning back in several of the photos.

Your string arm can be brought in line by engaging your back muscles properly. 

You will need a coach to show you the proper technique.

My suggestion is to drop your weight to 30lbs to correct your form and then build up to higher weights from there.

Good luck!

Chris V.


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## dchan (Jun 29, 2004)

Still have not gotten a good answer on how he looses the sight pin. (relation)

Have not gotten an answer to the string blur/alignment question.

No good picture of the aperture in relation to the sight window. A good camera view would be from the target's perspective.

Still have not gotten an answer on the particulars of equipment. (spine, trying to match both bows?)

Lean back looks like a result of being over bowed.

Since we are not there, can not tell if the lack of bow arm raise might be a physical limitation. 

Other thoughts (random musings)

7.5 BH is way on the low end of the range.. and unless something is different on setup for formula bows, (I could not see anything in the manual) they don't say anything about tiller so I would expect that normal setup should be positive tiller not even.

As mentioned, I would drop in weight to fix the lean back and bow arm.

Other things would be to go back through the full setup (center shot, Nock height)and basic tune process and verify everything including doing clearance tests and brace height tuning to find the best BH for your setup.
Check if the bow is on plane. Again without seeing the left-right of the aperture hard to tell what else might be going on.


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## midwayarcherywi (Sep 24, 2006)

I really think Vitorrio got it. Ive seen it before.


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## Dacer (Jun 10, 2013)

Okay so I went an played around with my helix to see if I could get the same effect in my indoor range. 

This is what i discoved - couldn't get my sight to disappear by being obscured by limb pocket or the sight window - while trying to replicate what i could see in the pictures;

high bow shoulder, un-rotated bow arm with bicep pointed up and elbow pointing down (in fact that was extremely uncomfortable for me), with some lean back. 

it did cause the sight pin to lower quite a lot, but it was still visible. However Im shooting a helix not a formula bow, and my facial geometry is quite a bit different than yours.

Its appears to be a confluence of many factors; Your physical traits, the bow, and your form. I think its going to be difficult to fix or adaptation with your current draw weight, and with just pictures/advice over the internet. This is probably going to take the hands on attention of a coach, or totally breaking down your form with a light bow or stretch bands. 

I've done it... its boring as hell, especially when you are self coaching and you realize you have a flaw in form and you have to rebuild your shot and make your muscles forget the bad habits. I've changed shot elements enough to know that every time you "fix" something your scores are going to go down for a little while before they go up - which really makes you question why you changed anything. 


Here is a picture of somethings. Reach out with your hand and keep your bow shoulder down .. the act of reaching does a lot on its own to keep the shoulder down. 
Rotate your elbow so that it is pointing parallel - or as much as you can - to the ground. This allows you to put the force of your bow arm into your triceps much more effectively and makes fore a much more solid bow arm. 

How it helps a little.


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## dchan (Jun 29, 2004)

Looking at the image from behind at full draw, I would have to hazard a guess that the string alignment is well inside (or right) of the left eye. This means the string is either not in his field of view or the string alignment is way to the right of his left eye. 

IF everything else is setup correctly, and the bow was shooting straight, that would put the sight pin way to the left or right up against the sight window on the riser.. 

As soon as the sight window begins to curve to the right, he would loose the pin.

If the sight pin were closer to the center of the sight window it would probably gain him a bit more room at the top of the sight window.

That being said however, his sight is maxed out at the top of the sight bar. 

After the tiller change, the OP says he can now see the sight pin. What was the tiller before you made the change and did you re-adjust your nock position after the tiller change?

It's possible the sight window is too short as mentioned but with all the other stuff that looks like needs to be corrected, and the many other items in form and most likely being over bowed, I would take the winter time to back away and start with basics. Going to a much lighter weight bow will also allow you to see the pin at the shorter distances.

DC


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## dchan (Jun 29, 2004)

So some demographics from digging since Falkryus has not given it yet.

This may shed some light and help us assist the OP.

OP started shooting in March, (so 6 and half months)
Started with a coach at a club.
26lb bow.
After 2 months and "winning a 10M competition, on coaches recommendation begins the search for a stabilizer.
Purchase of stabilizer sight, etc.. timing unknown. Stabilizer appears to be full V bar setup with a bit of weight.
at 3 months purchases 36lb limbs (10lb jump).
Now 6 months out shooting 40lb limbs (still no info on actual full setup) full vbar setup, etc..

This kind of explains the overbowed habits..

Very little in forum history regarding the journey of shooting.

Almost no data on setup and tuning journey.
No spine data for current arrows that I see other than what some of the things he purchased are.
We don't know if the actual setup/tune was done and what the data/results are.

We do know 20y male. 5'5" tall.

Images show someone possibly overbowed and some alignment issues.

so Falkyrus,

Please fill in some of the blanks.

DC


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## bobnikon (Jun 10, 2012)

We really need a sticky that says fill in dchan's sticky. Anybody who lurks in these forums even for a while should get the hint. There are few people who work as hard to help, looking up posting history, asking repeated questions etc as dchan. Just help him help you.


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## Falkryus (May 17, 2013)

dchan said:


> Still have not gotten a good answer on how he looses the sight pin. (relation)
> 
> Have not gotten an answer to the string blur/alignment question.
> 
> ...


Hello sorry for not answering, I've been trying to do some things that you guys recommended and I really forgot.

1- I loose the sight when I anchor, my sight is all to the left close to the limb pocket and when I anchor I just see it.


But I'm working on bringing down my bow shoulder and rising up my bow arm and now I can at least see the Fiber Optic of the recurve titan scope

2- Since my pin sight is very close to the riser, I align my string more or less at the start of the aperture of the pin, I can't really understand how I can test the string blur/alignment. If you guys can bring me more information of how I can do it, I'll really appreciate it.


3- I'll try to find a good picture from the target perspective.

4- Equipment information 

- Hoyt HPX LH 25"
- Hoyt F4 Limbs Short 40#
- Arrows (using right now) Easton Carbon One 660 26.75" from nock to shaft with 120g points (I've 110 points but the arrows were very stiff with these points when my coach tried to more or less setup my bow)
- String 8125g 63" 18 Strands
- Shibuya Ultima Rest \ Shibuya Plunger \ Shibuya Ultima RC 520 Sight
- Easton X-10 Stabilizers with some dampers and weights (stock weights)

4-Since I started shooting with a pvc bow I leaned back, I've tried to fix it but I just can't shoot without doing it :'(

5- I use the brace height in 7.5" because hoyt recommend it for formula hpx of 66" I have increased it many times but the bow sounds weird so I leave it there in 7.5


I'll post later the nock height

Thanks for helping me guys, I'm really doing the best I can to try to fix this.

You guys want to know what my coach told me after discussing with him what the problem could be, he told me "You should cut your head because you are the only person in the world with that problem" and today I'll shoot in my house because of that.


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## chrstphr (Nov 23, 2005)

Falkryus said:


> You guys want to know what my coach told me after discussing with him what the problem could be, he told me "You should cut your head because you are the only person in the world with that problem" and today I'll shoot in my house because of that.


not the only person dealing with this alignment issue. I explained the problem and gave the answer. Its also why you have a gap in your anchor and a slight lean back. It can also make you lean sideways toward your draw hand. 

View attachment 1810516



Chris


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## Basilios (Nov 24, 2012)

lol looks like the Paris venue from a month or so ago.


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## Dacer (Jun 10, 2013)

chrstphr said:


> not the only person dealing with this alignment issue. I explained the problem and gave the answer. Its also why you have a gap in your anchor and a slight lean back. It can also make you lean sideways toward your draw hand.
> 
> View attachment 1810516
> 
> ...


I don't really see the shoulder being rolled back - but that is just from the pictures. But it seems to be that it could easily be an over bowed issue. Instead to of shoulder being down and out to the target it is bing pushed up and back and then bow arm lowers trying to hold the force of the bow. 

Just my guess - like I posted I tried to take the same position to see if I could recreate to loosing my sight but couldn't. It was far from being insured by my riser. 

I've never read anywhere advocating not rotating the bow arm to get the elbow as close to parallel to the ground as one can - butuf I recall you follow the techniques of the like demo straightens by archers like Ki Bo Bae. If it doesn't effect the solidness of the bow arm I guess it's a nonissue


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## chrstphr (Nov 23, 2005)

Dacer said:


> I don't really see the shoulder being rolled back - but that is just from the pictures. But it seems to be that it could easily be an over bowed issue. Instead to of shoulder being down and out to the target it is bing pushed up and back and then bow arm lowers trying to hold the force of the bow.
> 
> Just my guess - like I posted I tried to take the same position to see if I could recreate to loosing my sight but couldn't. It was far from being insured by my riser.
> 
> I've never read anywhere advocating not rotating the bow arm to get the elbow as close to parallel to the ground as one can - butuf I recall you follow the techniques of the like demo straightens by archers like Ki Bo Bae. If it doesn't effect the solidness of the bow arm I guess it's a nonissue


It helps that i can see the alignment issue in real, not in photos. They are both putting the bow shoulder back, not inline with the arm and rear shoulder. They think its lowering the shoulder to combat a high shoulder. This placement back, brings the rear shoulder slightly to target and twists the shoulder line. This makes the anchor hand and arm move outward leaving the gap in the anchor. It also affects release as the release now goes outward, instead of directly back to the shoulder. 

It is hard to explain on a forum. 

stand and raise your arm like you will shoot the bow. fully extend your arm to target so its as straight as you can get it and shoulder is in line. Now rotate your bow shoulder back and down and put your elbow downward while bringing your rear shoulder slightly to target ( to get to this position, you will have to slightly bend your bow arm). This position will bow your arm downward and bring your bow hand closer to you. This is the position they are shooting from. Even though the shoulder looks in the right place height wise, it is not in the right alignment. We have been working with our JOAD shooter on this problem for about 2 months. She is now getting her shoulder in line and pushing better to target, which is removing the downward bend from her bow arm, AND getting her anchor solid contact with no gap. 

In the photo i posted, that was her form, Her front shoulder is high compared to the back shoulder, she has a slight lean, but what you cant see is her shoulders are angled to the house behind her at a angle. Her rear shoulder is coming round to face the target. 


View attachment 1810574


View attachment 1810570




And his sight window is shorter than he needs. That is a different issue. 


Chris


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## Dacer (Jun 10, 2013)

Ahhh yea I see what your saying. Makes sense


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## chrstphr (Nov 23, 2005)

The attachments are working in my previous post. 

View attachment 1810614


View attachment 1810615


Chris


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## w8lon (Jun 2, 2012)

It appears to me that some of the lean back may be do to quite an incline that he is shooting uphill. In one photo assuming that retaining wall has a plumb post their is a few feet of grade change in just the width of picture.

As others have said move your anchor up at least bringing the knuckle in thumb to jaw bone this should lower your pin. Bow shoulder scrunch is indication of too much weight on limbs.


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## Dacer (Jun 10, 2013)

Falkryus, which eye are you aiming with?

Because now that i look at it - it appears you are shooting left handed and aiming with your right eye.

i could be totally wrong, but the string look like its completely to the right of your nose instead in front of your left eye.


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## dchan (Jun 29, 2004)

Dacer said:


> Falkryus, which eye are you aiming with?
> 
> Because now that i look at it - it appears you are shooting left handed and aiming with your right eye.
> 
> i could be totally wrong, but the string look like its completely to the right of your nose instead in front of your left eye.


The reason I keep asking about if the string is even in his field of view and what the blur/aperture looks like.

Noted this in post 9 as well as in post 32..


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## Falkryus (May 17, 2013)

When I anchor I close my right eye because I can't focus with both eyes open, I aim with my left eye.
I'm right handed in real life but my dominant eye is the left one


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## Falkryus (May 17, 2013)

dchan said:


> The reason I keep asking about if the string is even in his field of view and what the blur/aperture looks like.
> 
> Noted this in post 9 as well as in post 32..


I can't understand well what you are asking me about the string but if you are asking if I can see my string when I anchor, the answer is yes I can see it.

I'm Puerto Rican my english isn't perfect. There are words and terms in English that I don't know what they mean, so please guys have patience with me :S

Update from today practice in my yard at 18m

I lowered the bow shoulder and raised the bow arm and I manage to see perfectly the Pin sight but now I have to get used to these 2 things, I feel the bow weight 2x times harder. My GF don't know anything of archery but she were watching me for these days and every time I raise my bow shoulder she told me to lower it.

I'm not going to shoot again in my club until I fix this, I don't want to hear my coach telling me to cut my head or things like that.

I want to thanks everyone that have helped me with this, this is such a great community and I'm happy of being part of it. Tomorrow, I'll try to post some pictures.

EDIT: Sorry for double posting, I didn't find the option to edit the first post


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## dchan (Jun 29, 2004)

So in your view, where is the string aligned? Both Dacer and I are trying to figure that out because in your pictures it looks like the string is way to the right of your left eye. So at full draw is the string on the right side of your view or left side of your view.

If the string is on the right side of your eye and you are lining up the pin as you posted in the image in post 35, then something else in your setup has to be way off. 

Something is not adding up..

Have you measured the poundage on your bow (on your fingers at full draw)?

how is your center shot setup?

Have you done any tuning other than selecting arrows?

If so, what were the tuning steps, and what were the results of said tests.


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## w8lon (Jun 2, 2012)

If you still have them try your lower pound limbs with the changes that you are working on. You may also try playing with placement of your feet by shooting a more open stance, and concentrating on more weight on forward foot. Feels awkward at first as you lean to target, but you will notice changes in point of impact of arrows.

I have a dominant left eye and am right handed as well finally made the change to lefty after loss of vision in right eye. Even with blurred vision in my right eye I have to partially close it or prefer a blinder clipped to my hat brim. My brain still spends to much time trying to focus what cannot be focused in the right eye as my vision loss has been in the last two or three years.


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## Falkryus (May 17, 2013)

dchan said:


> So in your view, where is the string aligned? Both Dacer and I are trying to figure that out because in your pictures it looks like the string is way to the right of your left eye. So at full draw is the string on the right side of your view or left side of your view.
> 
> If the string is on the right side of your eye and you are lining up the pin as you posted in the image in post 35, then something else in your setup has to be way off.
> 
> ...



Ohhhhhh tommorow I'll tell you where the string is at full draw.

At full draw I was pulling 41# with one tiller in 6.75" anx the other in 7.25". I measured it with a digital tool made by easton that my coach have.

I don't know what the center shot is, I searched in google and I can't find anything. If you can explain me what it is I'll appreciate it. So the answer is I've not setup that in my bow.

Ummm tuning besides selecting an arrow, I've setup more or less the plunger shooting an arrow without vanes and hitting normally the target like the group with vanes.

Well I followed the easton archery tuning guide and my arrow without vanes was hitting right. I decreased the plunger pressure and I finally made it hit the yellow like the group.

I forgot to say but my nocking point height is at 3/4.

I have been shooting since April holy week and I've followed everything that my coach have told me. I just recently hit the 1000 mark the last week in a fita. I don't know many things but I really want to learn everything possible, because this sport have become part of me since I shooted my first 10 at 5m. Without the proper guidance I'll never gonna be an archer of olympic level. I'm going to sleep right now please keep posting, I'm not going to be happy until I shoot a 30 in 18m.


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## hwjchan (Oct 24, 2011)

If the bow weight is an issue when you're correcting your bow arm/bow shoulder side, it may well be a good idea to go down in weight to around 30, or even lower, until you correct the issue, and then slowly work back up. I defer to the better judgment of more experienced coaches here, but going down in bow weight will definitely make it easier to adjust to any fixes you might be trying to apply. After you've fixed the issue, then you can go back up. 

I speak from personal experience with fixing massive alignment issues, I dropped all the way back down to 14# from 36#.


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## rstgyx (Apr 13, 2013)

Try this: Lower your poundage and/or use just a long rod for one session next time you shoot. This will allow you to focus on your form rather than struggling with the bow mass. I know that when I shoot at the start of the session, I can keep my form and shots consistently. However later in the day I need to take most of the weight off my long rod as my bow arm gets tired.


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## TheAncientOne (Feb 14, 2007)

TheAncientOne said:


> Several problems are evident with your bow arm. Your bow arm elbow is rotated down, for a left handed archer it should point to the side (at 3 o'clock). Your bow arm shoulder is way too high, it is a combination of the 40lb weight that you are trying to hold and your arm position. If you change your grip so that your bow hand knuckles are 45 degrees to the riser it should help.
> 
> You stance should be balanced so that 50% of your weight is on each foot. You are leaning back in several of the photos.
> 
> ...


I repeat what I said yesterday. You need a coach.


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## Dacer (Jun 10, 2013)

TheAncientOne said:


> I repeat what I said yesterday. You need a coach.


from some of his statements - it appears he has a coach.


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## Falkryus (May 17, 2013)

dchan said:


> So in your view, where is the string aligned? Both Dacer and I are trying to figure that out because in your pictures it looks like the string is way to the right of your left eye. So at full draw is the string on the right side of your view or left side of your view.
> 
> If the string is on the right side of your eye and you are lining up the pin as you posted in the image in post 35, then something else in your setup has to be way off.
> 
> Something is not adding up..


Update from today,

I went to my club, My coach asked me if I changed something I'm my technique and I said to him "My GF have been couching me" 

Well I've good news, I raised my bow arm and lowered the bow shoulder and now I can see perfectly but the arrows are flying to the left. Tomorrow, I'll lower the weight of my bow and I'll shoot with just the long rod.

dchan I'm seeing the string at the right side of my nose with my left eye.


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## dchan (Jun 29, 2004)

Hmm. Just on that info, i would presume something is way off with your initial setup.

Go back to the easton tuning guide and follow pages 1-4 initial bow setup. Pay close attention to the part about setting arrow position left/right.

Any time you change anything on your bow, you really should go through this process again.


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## Basilios (Nov 24, 2012)

dchan said:


> Hmm. Just on that info, i would presume something is way off with your initial setup.
> 
> Go back to the easton tuning guide and follow pages 1-4 initial bow setup. Pay close attention to the part about setting arrow position left/right.
> 
> Any time you change anything on your bow, you really should go through this process again.


Just a quick question on this post. 

Are you saying that his string blur seems right and there must be something else wrong with his tune. 

Or are you saying that his string blur is in the wrong position based on the physical position of the string on his face. 

I'm a left handed archer myself so have been following this thread to make sure I have everything correct on my bow also.


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## dchan (Jun 29, 2004)

I am guessing the setup or tune is off.

If the string is in the center of his face, The string is in the right quadrant of his view. For him to be able line up the string on the left edge of his aperture, and yet lose the pin to the left edge of the sight window, but still put arrows in the correct windage, tells me something is off.

Without actually being there to evaluate whats going on, I don't want to speculate on what but something seems off.


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## TheAncientOne (Feb 14, 2007)

Dacer said:


> from some of his statements - it appears he has a coach.


He mentions a coach in his first post, but I don't see any evidence that coaching is actually going on. 

TAO


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## Stash (Jun 1, 2002)

Although you say you have fixed the sight height problem, it appears you are anchoring too low.
Basic question - do you have your teeth together or is your jaw open?
Also, can you post a pic of your tab showing the position of the shelf?

Left-right issue could be any number of things. String alignment should look something close to this: if it's significantly different, you might need to move your head a bit. If it is similar to this, then it's a tuning issue and you need to fix that.


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## dchan (Jun 29, 2004)

and here's the reason I can't seem to get how this bow is setup properly.









If the picture from behind or the side is correct, and not an illusion, his eye would be way to the left of the string.. (red dot on the riser) and his nose with the string on the right edge would mean the string is at the right edge of his field of view. (red dot on the string) The green line would be the arrow aligned setup properly using easton's guide of arrow point just to the outside of the string.

The orange line would be where his eye's line up. Obviously the angles would not be as severe but you get the idea..

Now if you take Falkyrus' comment about how the string is aligned in his field of view, and the image he posted of the aperture and what he is trying to see, all the geometry will put his sight pin well behind the riser. The fact that he can see the sight pin at any distance tells me that the arrow is not coming off the bow very straight. 

Stranger configurations have led to strange setups working but convention would normally say something is off..


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## w8lon (Jun 2, 2012)

Using a chin bone anchor as it appears in this photo, looked in other pictures as if floating below. Is this part of the problem with a long face not having thumb joint along jawbone?


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