# Bitzenburger questions



## Ottoslanding (Feb 2, 2006)

I would like to fletch my own arrows and the Bitz seems to be highly recommended.

What do I need?

All the different clamps and offsets have me lost. Which ones should I get? 

What kind of vanes hold up best? Thru a whisker biscuit? 

What is the best glue?

Any suggestions? 

Otto


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## Doc (Jun 10, 2003)

The most popular is a right helical which is also the one I use. This is also the best for hunting as the helical stabilizes the broadhead much better than the offset. The offset will give you less drag which means less of a decrease in down-range speed, but less stability. The best glue I have found is Bohning Quantum XT. Some guys like Goat Tuff, but others have stated Goat Tuff doesn't work well for inserts. I use the Quantum XT for both with great results. I have been using the Blazer Vanes from Bohning. I use the 2 inch vanes for hunting and the 1.5 for 3D. They are durable and stiff. I don't shoot a WB, but know many people use Blazers with the WB without a problem.
Basically you'll need the Bitzenberger jig which comes with a clamp of your choice, vanes, 91%Isopropanol (for cleaning the shafts before fletching) which is available at most drug stores (do not get the 70%), arrow shafts and some glue. You'll then be set.


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## Ottoslanding (Feb 2, 2006)

Doc,

Thanks!

More newb questions.

Does the RH Helical put the vanes one with a spiral? Does it make the arrow spin?

When I order the jig the clamp is that what is called right helical? Can the same jig use the other clamps if I decide to later? 

Are there any good articles out there on the net with illustrations of fletching arrows with the Bitzenburger?

Arrow shafts-are there any good universal ones that work good for a 50# recurve and compound bows ranging from 40-70 Lbs.

We just started this and my boys are trashing arrows like they are going out of style. 

Otto 



Doc said:


> The most popular is a right helical which is also the one I use. This is also the best for hunting as the helical stabilizes the broadhead much better than the offset. The offset will give you less drag which means less of a decrease in down-range speed, but less stability. The best glue I have found is Bohning Quantum XT. Some guys like Goat Tuff, but others have stated Goat Tuff doesn't work well for inserts. I use the Quantum XT for both with great results. I have been using the Blazer Vanes from Bohning. I use the 2 inch vanes for hunting and the 1.5 for 3D. They are durable and stiff. I don't shoot a WB, but know many people use Blazers with the WB without a problem.
> Basically you'll need the Bitzenberger jig which comes with a clamp of your choice, vanes, 91%Isopropanol (for cleaning the shafts before fletching) which is available at most drug stores (do not get the 70%), arrow shafts and some glue. You'll then be set.


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## Doc (Jun 10, 2003)

Does the RH Helical put the vanes one with a spiral? Yes

Does it make the arrow spin? Yes it makes the arrow spin more providing better stability overall. This is very important when using broadheads.

When I order the jig the clamp is that what is called right helical? Yes you would order the Bitzenberger with the right helical clamp.

Can the same jig use the other clamps if I decide to later? Yes you can buy other Bitzenberger clamps which will work on any Bitz.

Are there any good articles out there on the net with illustrations of fletching arrows with the Bitzenburger? I don't know, but it is very simple. The jig has instructions with illustrations. It is quite a simple process where the only difficult thing to learn is how much glue to apply, you'll find out very quickly it doesn't take much.

Arrow shafts-are there any good universal ones that work good for a 50# recurve and compound bows ranging from 40-70 Lbs. I am not too sure about that, but a carbon arrow like the GoldTip 5575 should work. It would be a little heavy and stiff for the 40# bow, but that wouldn't make too much of a difference until they get really good. I am only assuming they are not, because they are just starting and trashing arrows. Carbons won't maintain a bend like aluminums, therefore they are more durable.

We just started this and my boys are trashing arrows like they are going out of style. That's great, have fun with it and feel free to post your questions on AT, there is a great bunch of guys here with a ton of knowledge.


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## Ottoslanding (Feb 2, 2006)

Doc,

Thanks for your time. Very helpful.

The entire family is just starting this so if the arrows are a little stiff for the 
40# bow, none of us will realize it at this point. We are still trying to hit the block from 10 yards. Am I correct to assume that having an arrow stiff enough for the 70# bow is safe for all the lower pound bows?

I agree with you on the great bunch of folks on AT. Many have stepped forward with their time to help me figure all this out. The search functions seem to work out pretty good but so much of the discussion is way over my head. I sincerely appreciate the help for this wide eyed newbie. :tongue: 

Thanks again. 

Otto


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

*Fletching with a Bitzenberger jig*



Ottoslanding said:


> Are there any good articles out there on the net with illustrations of fletching arrows with the Bitzenburger?
> 
> Otto


Otto:

This is the procedure I use for fletching with the Bitz jig. I like to use arrow wraps because the vanes will stick much easier to an arrow wrap. I buy my wraps from Bowmanhunter here on AT.

Apply wraps onto shaft. Make sure your wraps are firmly and smoothly applied.

Make sure that the vane sits on the shaft making FULL CONTACT (no air bubbles under the base of the vane). 

Do not touch the vane bottom with your fingers while handling.

With the vane in the fletching clamp, squeeze a narrow continuous bead of LocTite Superglue Gel down the middle.

Then, and I think this is the VERY important part, set the clamp down on the arrow shaft and press HARD for about 15 seconds. Wrap your fingers under the arrow shaft and press the shaft into the clamp.

Superglue is a contact type glue that works best and sets up fastest under pressure. You must squeeze out any air (that’s why you need the continuous bead of superglue gel).

If I get any squeeze out along the base of the vane, just remove the clamp after 90 seconds, and swipe with Q tip, the squeeze out will still be wet.

When done with all fletches, go back and put a small drop of glue at each end of the vanes.

Let the shafts sit for 24 hours before shooting to let everything cure.


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## Ottoslanding (Feb 2, 2006)

Nuts and Bolts,

Thanks.

Couple more newbconfusedquestions:


Do you need adhesive for wraps? 

Are wraps overkill for beginners who are beating the heck out of arrows? 

Otto




nuts&bolts said:


> Otto:
> 
> This is the procedure I use for fletching with the Bitz jig. I like to use arrow wraps because the vanes will stick much easier to an arrow wrap. I buy my wraps from Bowmanhunter here on AT.
> 
> ...


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## BradleyP (Dec 7, 2003)

I find with small diameter arrows its really a chore to get the vanes to contact the arrows 100%. This was never a problem back in the days when I shot large aluminum arrows... 2216 size. 

But to add to whats been a said already. Just use your best judgement. Dont use glue until you are certain the vanes are getting the most contact with the shaft as possible... so trial fitting is really important. Once the jig is set youll turn out arrows pretty fast.. its this first step that is always a little slow. 

Oh and a spot of glue on each end of the vane is great advice!:thumb:


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## Ottoslanding (Feb 2, 2006)

BradleyP

Thanks for the input  

Is there a simple explanation for arrow size numbers such as 2216? Is it best left for a seperate thread or is it simple enough? What do the numbers mean?

When you do your trial fitting, is there a technique you have for determining contact? Shining light through, etc.? Will it be obvious to me?

Is the ability of the Bitz to hold this setting from the trial fitting what makes it better than some others? Will this setting change every time I change arrows? 

The idea Nuts&Bolts had for the drop of glue at each end of the vane certainly seemed like a good one. 

Thanks again.

Otto




BradleyP said:


> I find with small diameter arrows its really a chore to get the vanes to contact the arrows 100%. This was never a problem back in the days when I shot large aluminum arrows... 2216 size.
> 
> But to add to whats been a said already. Just use your best judgement. Dont use glue until you are certain the vanes are getting the most contact with the shaft as possible... so trial fitting is really important. Once the jig is set youll turn out arrows pretty fast.. its this first step that is always a little slow.
> 
> Oh and a spot of glue on each end of the vane is great advice!:thumb:


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## BradleyP (Dec 7, 2003)

Dont worry about the arrow size I mentioned... its not really the issue. What I was trying saying at without really getting into detail is the helical clamp you are using will require some extra finess to get the best contact to the shaft. Straight fletchings are quite a bit easier in this reguard. 

A bright light always helps you see if an edge of the vane is lifted off the shaft or front/tail end of the vane isnt getting good contact. The jig has 2 knobs used to set the clamp position on the arrow shaft with allen head screws holding them in place. So once you get the best setting.. determined by whatever method you find most convienent.. all you do is tighten down the allen screws real good and you're good to go.


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## Ottoslanding (Feb 2, 2006)

Thanks.

I'm guessing this will be somewhat obvious to me when I get the actual jig in hand with the manufacturers directions.

Do you also recommend the right helical or do you prefer the straight?

Am I biting off too much by attempting to learn on the right helical?

:embara: 

Otto 




BradleyP said:


> Dont worry about the arrow size I mentioned... its not really the issue. What I was trying saying at without really getting into detail is the helical clamp you are using will require some extra finess to get the best contact to the shaft. Straight fletchings are quite a bit easier in this reguard.
> 
> A bright light always helps you see if an edge of the vane is lifted off the shaft or front/tail end of the vane isnt getting good contact. The jig has 2 knobs used to set the clamp position on the arrow shaft with allen head screws holding them in place. So once you get the best setting.. determined by whatever method you find most convienent.. all you do is tighten down the allen screws real good and you're good to go.


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## sndmn11 (Jul 26, 2003)

*bitz*

i use a bitz with a straight clamp and then adjust for as much offset as my shaft can handle, and i use axis shafts. straight offset or helical is really up to you. i would use blazers out of your whisker biscuit. i use arrow wraps and goat tuff glue and simple green to clean the shaft. if you have a beat up shaft that is the same diameter that you plan on using practice with the beat up shaft to get your offset correct. this will let you "trial fit" without having to strip off the vane if it is not right. the arrow wraps are basically stickers so they have adhesive on them already...just peel them off, lay them on a flat surface, line up the end of the shaft with the end of the wrap and then roll the shaft over the wrap. as far as the numbers for aluminum arrows go the first two numbers is the diameter of the shaft, and the second two numbers are the thickness of the shaft walls. i am not sure what the measurements are in though. someone else can tell you that. if you have any more questions i am sure that others as well as myself can help you out.
kyle


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## BradleyP (Dec 7, 2003)

Ottoslanding said:


> BradleyP
> 
> Thanks for the input
> 
> Is there a simple explanation for arrow size numbers such as 2216? Is it best left for a seperate thread or is it simple enough? What do the numbers mean?


Alright I read your thread again and it appears I didnt give you the answers you were looking for about arrows.

When you order arrows you can get a good idea of what size by using the Easton chart. This chart you can find almost anywhere you can buy arrows being out of catalogs, online catalogs and at pro shops. The number 2216 is a rating used by Easton to catagorize their wide range of arrows they have available. 22 is the diameter of the shaft and 16 is the wall thickness of the arrow. These numbers are really used primarily for ALUMINUM arrows and is a much more precise way of determining the correct arrows for your application... again refer to that chart I was telling you about. Now the GoldTip 5575 mentioned by Doc is a carbon arrow made by GoldTip and the numbers there are completely different... they quite simply say this arrow works from 55lb through 75lb draw weights. Of course thats a very loose definition because the length of the arrow and weight of the tip will change the so called "spine" of the shaft. The arrow should work for you and your boys though.


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## Ottoslanding (Feb 2, 2006)

Kyle,

Thanks for the info. 

Sounds like the Blazer vanes are popular.

Here I go with more newbiness :tongue: 

What is meant by offset? 

What is the difference between straight and straight offset? 

Do you get more offset with a shaft with greater diameter?

Does offset also make the arrow spin?

Is the arrow spinning yet when it goes through the WB or does that happen after it leaves the rest?

It amazes me how much there is to this stuff. The info seems endless.

 

Otto





sndmn11 said:


> i use a bitz with a straight clamp and then adjust for as much offset as my shaft can handle, and i use axis shafts. straight offset or helical is really up to you. i would use blazers out of your whisker biscuit. i use arrow wraps and goat tuff glue and simple green to clean the shaft. if you have a beat up shaft that is the same diameter that you plan on using practice with the beat up shaft to get your offset correct. this will let you "trial fit" without having to strip off the vane if it is not right. the arrow wraps are basically stickers so they have adhesive on them already...just peel them off, lay them on a flat surface, line up the end of the shaft with the end of the wrap and then roll the shaft over the wrap. as far as the numbers for aluminum arrows go the first two numbers is the diameter of the shaft, and the second two numbers are the thickness of the shaft walls. i am not sure what the measurements are in though. someone else can tell you that. if you have any more questions i am sure that others as well as myself can help you out.
> kyle


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## BradleyP (Dec 7, 2003)

BTW I use regular Bohning fletching glue... not the quick set super glue. And I have never used arrow wraps to help hold the vanes on my arrows. All Ive ever done was dipped the end of my arrows in a can of acetone to clean off any residues. I cant pull vanes off my carbons with a pair of plyers. Actually surprised me how much work it was removing the old 4" vanes on my carbons to glue on some of those 2" blazers.


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## Ottoslanding (Feb 2, 2006)

Perfect on the arrow size question!!

Sorry I got us off the Bitz thread but thanks.

It really blew the fog right away on size.

I am assuming that since I have the longest draw at 28" and everyone is shorter, that we will be just fine shooting the 55/75. It should be plenty stiff.

Are the Gold Tip Expedition arrows good enough for beginners or should I bump up to the next expensive line of Gold Tip XT?

Otto




BradleyP said:


> <snipped>
> 
> Now the GoldTip 5575 mentioned by Doc is a carbon arrow made by GoldTip and the numbers there are completely different... they quite simply say this arrow works from 55lb through 75lb draw weights. Of course thats a very loose definition because the length of the arrow and weight of the tip will change the so called "spine" of the shaft. The arrow should work for you and your boys though.


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## Ottoslanding (Feb 2, 2006)

Do you use the Bohning Quantum XT? 

I think a big part of your success is cleaning of that residue. That seems to be an important part.

I don't know who fletched the used arrows we have, but the darn vanes have been falling off at a rapid pace.  




BradleyP said:


> BTW I use regular Bohning fletching glue... not the quick set super glue. And I have never used arrow wraps to help hold the vanes on my arrows. All Ive ever done was dipped the end of my arrows in a can of acetone to clean off any residues. I cant pull vanes off my carbons with a pair of plyers. Actually surprised me how much work it was removing the old 4" vanes on my carbons to glue on some of those 2" blazers.


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## BradleyP (Dec 7, 2003)

Ottoslanding said:


> Kyle,
> 
> Thanks for the info.
> 
> ...


There are 2 kinds of clamps... straight and helical. The clamps determine if your vanes are gonna be glued straight or with a slight twist that induces a spiraling effect. This is supposed to stabilize the arrow but I think for your application youll only create issues with the vanes not sticking properly... I honestly have shot both and I never notice any difference in accuracy so take that for what its worth. 

The jig allows you to set the vanes down on the shaft with a slight offset. This is supposed to mimic the effects of a helical vane only you are doing it with a straight fletch. Basically there are 2 adjusting knobs on the jig and you simply "offset" the knobs judging by the reference marks casted into them. 

But for simplicity Id just go straight fletch and be done with it. If you had the jig in front of you I bet youd figure this all out fairly quick for yourself too... its an amazingly simple yet effective tool.


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## BradleyP (Dec 7, 2003)

Ottoslanding said:


> Do you use the Bohning Quantum XT?
> 
> I think a big part of your success is cleaning of that residue. That seems to be an important part.
> 
> I don't know who fletched the used arrows we have, but the darn vanes have been falling off at a rapid pace.


Its just called Bohning Fletch Tite. This glue has advantages for beginners because it doesnt setup in 5 seconds... there is room for error if you make any and time to correct it. But that also means the arrows take longer to make. Ive been doing this for a while but Ill typically let this glue set for 1 minute on each vane before removing the clamp. The glue wont be anywhere near set yet but just tacky enough it shouldnt move unless you bump it.


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## sndmn11 (Jul 26, 2003)

*re*

offset is just a term for how many degrees away from parallel the vanes are. for example if we took an arrow shaft and laid in on a compass from north to south 0degrees would make the vane be perfectly parallel with the shaft. now if we keep the shaft north to south and then turn the vane a few degrees we get offset. the offset causes the arrow to spin. the term straight offset means a straight jig used at some degree of offset as opposed to just straight. just straight will not cause your arrow to spin much if any. the helical clamp helps put a twist-bend thing in the vane so that it wraps around the shaft more and thus more offset can be achieved. however with a straight clamp you can get more than enough offset to accurately fly fixed blade broadheads out of a compound. yes more offset does make the arrow spin better because of the angle the vanes are on the shaft imparts drag, and since the vanes on an arrow are all put on the same way the drag causes the spinning. if i am right the spinning doesnt start until the arrow is atleast a few feet from the bow, i know for a fact that it is not spinning before it gets to the arrow rest. there are dials on the bitz jig that you turn to get yoru desired offset...youll see when you get/see one.


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## big weave (May 1, 2005)

PM'd the thread starter


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## Ottoslanding (Feb 2, 2006)

*Fletch spacing*

:help: 


I have the jig and the 2" Blazer vanes. :thumb: 

I am using the right helical clamp. :clap2: 

Which index on the clamp should I use for spacing the rear of the vane from the nock? :confused3: 

In other words, how far do I want the rear of the vane to be from the beginning of the knock(where the carbon ends and the plastic nock begins).

:ball: 

Otto


:aero:


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

*It's personal preference. I use btwn 0.75-1 inch*



Ottoslanding said:


> :help:
> 
> 
> I have the jig and the 2" Blazer vanes. :thumb:
> ...


Otto:

The further back the vanes are on the arrow, then the vanes will have more leverage for steering correction. If the vanes are too far back, then the vanes may interfere with your face.

You need to decide what works best for you. General guideline would be 
1-inch or 2.54 cm.


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## Wvinter (Feb 27, 2006)

*What are the actual degrees offset?*

What are the actual degree offset for offset and for helical. Is helical 120 degrees offset for three feathers - used this number as I saw it in a write-up for bitz.


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## Ottoslanding (Feb 2, 2006)

:banana: 





Try this other thread for some answers:


http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=286351



Someone was nice enough to post the manual. :clap2: 



I don't think you can do "offset" to 120 degrees. My understanding is that "offset" refers to the vane's offset from parallel to the shaft axis. I can't imagine that ever getting close to even 30 degrees. 


:dance: 


The manual on the thread above does show the various vane patterns available.


:target: 


Hth. 


:nixon: 



Otto


:aero: 






Wvinter said:


> What are the actual degree offset for offset and for helical. Is helical 120 degrees offset for three feathers - used this number as I saw it in a write-up for bitz.


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

*Offset dials have tick marks*



Wvinter said:


> What are the actual degree offset for offset and for helical. Is helical 120 degrees offset for three feathers - used this number as I saw it in a write-up for bitz.


I use about 1 tick mark on the upper dial for offset.

It all depends on how large a diameter your arrow shafts are.


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