# Getting very frustrated with my shooting



## Ninja of Kaos (Sep 21, 2012)

Alright, for the past six months or so, ever since I got my new bow, I have been trying very hard to decrease my float and shrink my groups. I have not had very much success. I have been adjusting D-loop length and draw length here and there to try and achieve good form, but I really am not seeing better results at all. 

At this point I am just very frustrated and unsure of what else to do. I do not have a good coach anywhere close to where I am in reno, but I need someone else to look at me with fresh eyes and see what you think. Any and all help is appreciated. If you did any other pictures or something let me know.

Thanks


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## lunaarchery (Jan 16, 2013)

what is your # and draw "


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## lunaarchery (Jan 16, 2013)

I think the best thing to remember during shooting, guns or bows, is there is always going to be a "float". Remember not to try to "control" it, but to work to get the area smaller. This IMO is done through conditioning your muscles, especially with archery. if you can gain strength in your upper body it will be able to control your equipment resulting in a smaller area and tighter groups. If you want drop draw weight and try that to see if it helps. You don't have to drop a lot, but you will feel the difference.


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## snowshovler (Oct 15, 2011)

Just allow the float to float. If you are controlling it you are steering it and humans do not have the fine motor control to "fix" the float. Trust it will work and focus on the process and the result will be what it will be. Develop a simple shot sequence and good stance beginning with your feet and work up. If you do not address the target the same way each time the float will vary. What is your natural point of aim. Too often the shooter is too closed up which introduces a lot of internal tension so you are fighting the structure of you and the bow. If my feet are not set correctly the shot is generally okay but not great. When my NPA is good the hold is so much better. Find where your feet want to be, address the target, close your eyes, draw, anchor and open your eyes. If the sight is not on the target your NPA is off. Let down or release the arrow but don't move your feet. Move your entire body as a single unit pivoting on the front foot the same way one of those old plastic army men would move. Redraw with your eyes closed as above and see where you are. Keep adjusting until you open onto the target. It doesn't need to be dead on the X but at least on the target face. Note the position of your feet with respect to the shooting line. See if having the NPA neautral helps settle the float.


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## mike 66 (Jan 21, 2010)

you are leaning back.....a sure indication that you DL . IS LONG... i see you are in Nevada.. i so i hope the bow is set up right...after 200 shots or so the string may have moved......so shoot it through paper to make sure there is no issue... i would concentrate on performing a perfect shot... i cant see the release aid. i guess its a thumb with the grip you have... just looking at the set up i would recommend this remove the rt side bar. add more weight to the ft.say 4 0z or more . and keep adding weights to the side bar[ left] till you get the arrows to move to the right then....you should notice the float getting smaller... no ones is built the same so there is no set amount of weight for each person...get the DL FIXED first...then move on..the bow poundage may also be a issue...this is a game of skill not strength:juggle:


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## Ninja of Kaos (Sep 21, 2012)

The bow is currently set at about 54 or 55 lbs and right at about 29.25 inch length. I have also considered that my draw is too long as well. Whenever I shorten it though, my bow arm becomes bent. So I guess that follow up question is that should the bow arm be straight or should it have a slight bend or a major bend. I have had this bow down to about 28.5, and at that point there is a significant bend in my arm, the results don't appear to change. I will try taking a quarter inch out of the draw length and see if that helps with my leaning back.

I do not think I am fighting my float, I am just observing how large my float. I suppose that was a poor choice of words… When I said that I have been trying hard to decrease I did not mean physically during the shot, I meant by tweaking things here and there with my setup and my form.

I find that if I drop the draw weight anymore my holding weight at full draw goes down and my float gets even worse than it is. I did have the bow at about 62 and when I dropped to 55 it did help quite a bit, but dropping any lower just seems to make it worse.
I have never considered an NPA, if I had to guess it would probably be low on the target. Most likely off the paper. I have closed my eyes, drawn then bow and then open them to ensure that my peep is correct but I have never thought of ensuring that the pin was close to that target., I will give that a try and see.

Yes my release is a thumb and why would you recommend removing the right side bar? and what do you mean by adding weight to left side until the arrows move to the right? Will my groups actually shift with the removal of the right bar?

I appreciate all the help so far!


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## Crappiewizard (Jul 29, 2014)

Sometimes when I get frustrated I just take a week off!!! I find that helps. Everybody floats with a bow!!!! You must learn to trust yourself. Shorter bows seem to float more than a longer one to a point. I believe that the riser length is more important, but comparing to bows of the same make. If you had one with 28 inch ata and one with 38 inch ata the longer one wouldn't float as bad!! Just my two cents. Good luck!!!


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## Fury90flier (Jun 27, 2012)

you're trying too hard...let the shot happen.

sounds like you're not having fun- got to get to where you're havnig fun.

time to punish yourself.

take the stabs off
take the sight off

bare bow it for a month or so at 5-10 yards. No groups, just 1 arrow dots. When you can always hit the dot or get very close to it...step back.
Work on Grip, work on follow through

When you get to about 20/30 and you can bare bow it and keep say 80% in the red...then you can reward yourself by adding 1 stab.



on stance...get a full length mirror and practice.


a lot of peole don't want to take the gadgets off their bow, they want to add more. Typically these people struggle continuously. If you want to fix YOU, take everything off the bow that isn't required to fling an arrow. Then fix YOU.

add more stab weight to push an arrow? maybe. likely the cause is poor grip, follow through, pulling wrong at anchor. Add more weight if you want- but you did NOT fix the problem


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## Moebow (Jul 8, 2010)

Ninja,

IF when you shorten your draw length you find your bow arm bending, it is because your are holding your release hand at the same place on your head. Your bow arm, ideally, should be straight but the elbow is not locked out -- just straight. When you are just standing up , you don't bend your knees, you keep the bones in your legs straight (and knees not locked). Your body weight is supported on your leg bones and not by muscle.

Your picture is a little too small to see much detail, but if you shorten the draw length on the bow, keep the bow arm straight (did I mention NOT locked?) and let the release hand move forward on your face. I'd also suggest that you turn your release hand down so the palm is about 30 degrees up from flat to the ground. Then, your index finger base knuckle can be placed in or very near the pocket under your ear. 

I think you will find a more stable shooting position with your release hand flatter to the ground and forward on your face at least an inch if not two. You will also find I think that if you deal with bow fit AND form, the "float" will take care of itself. But chasing the "float" without form and equipment fitting changes can lead to "frustration." Oh ya, that is what you said. :wink:

Arne


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## silhouette13 (Feb 26, 2007)

perhaps a reduction in weight on your rods, sometimes we get caught up in the weight thinking heavier means more solid hold. if it make it too heavy the float may get better, hows the float without the v bar? better or worse?


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## aread (Dec 25, 2009)

At the end of indoor season last winter, I felt much the same as you. For all the work, study and practice time I was putting in, I wasn't getting too much for it.

Here is what I did: First I got my draw length right. In my case I added an inch, you will probably need to decrease a quarter to a half inch. Maybe more. The #1 factor in holding stability is draw length. Don't worry about bending your elbow a tiny bit. With today's hard walled bows, a little bend can actually help you be more stable.

Next I got my shoulders down. GRIV's LCA Thing-A-Week #8 & #9 will give you the why and how of this. Part of this is holding your bow at full draw with your back, not your arms.

Then I did something that I've ignored for years and knew better, I got help to develop a WRITTEN shot sequence. I have this with me at every practice & work on taking this to a subconscious level. I will get to the point where I can't shoot a shot that's different from my shot sequence. I was pretty surprised how much better I shoot when I follow my sequence exactly.

Honestly, you need a coach. I tried to do it for years by myself. But my shooting didn't improved significantly until I started getting help from a coach. I had to drive 8 hours each way and he is pretty expensive, but IMO, more than worth it.

You can do this, but you will take years off of your learning curve if you get help.

Allen


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## Ninja of Kaos (Sep 21, 2012)

Fury90flier said:


> you're trying too hard...let the shot happen.
> 
> sounds like you're not having fun- got to get to where you're havnig fun.
> 
> ...


I never thought about all this but you are right, I am not having any fun. I will take everything off the bow and work on shooting correctly without "stuff" on it. Thanks for the advice!!!!


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## Ninja of Kaos (Sep 21, 2012)

Moebow said:


> Ninja,
> 
> IF when you shorten your draw length you find your bow arm bending, it is because your are holding your release hand at the same place on your head. Your bow arm, ideally, should be straight but the elbow is not locked out -- just straight. When you are just standing up , you don't bend your knees, you keep the bones in your legs straight (and knees not locked). Your body weight is supported on your leg bones and not by muscle.
> 
> ...


Hmm ok, this helps out a lot. I was never quite sure what to do with that elbow or my knees. Thats something else I was going to bring up. So basically keep everything straight but not locked?


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## Ninja of Kaos (Sep 21, 2012)

aread said:


> At the end of indoor season last winter, I felt much the same as you. For all the work, study and practice time I was putting in, I wasn't getting too much for it.
> 
> Here is what I did: First I got my draw length right. In my case I added an inch, you will probably need to decrease a quarter to a half inch. Maybe more. The #1 factor in holding stability is draw length. Don't worry about bending your elbow a tiny bit. With today's hard walled bows, a little bend can actually help you be more stable.
> 
> ...


You pretty much just confirmed what I thought, I really need to just find and invest in a good coach so that he can see me shooting in person. I can imagine that goes a long way. I THINK that I have a consistent shot sequence but I prolly don't. Ill try writing it down and work on making sure it's consistent from shot to shot. And a straight arm isn't critical? I will just have to experiment more to see what works best for me.


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## subconsciously (Aug 22, 2009)

Good call Moe and Mike

Draw is too long and there is not a definitive anchor on the jaw line. The hand appears to be floating. 

Depending on how serious you are - at least go to the "coach locator" on the USA Archery website and find at least a Level 3. A few hours with a solid coach is worth months of reading mixed "opinions" on this website.



.02


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## carlielos (May 12, 2007)

Shortening the draw means changing your form, Will likely require a peep sight change in height, also and importantly you have to allow your head to rotate to the left when your draw length is shortened, if you maintain the same head position then you have to bend your bow arm, you want your release hand firmly anchored against your head, under your ear behind your jaw bone, when you get it right you can actually apply pressure with your neck and your back muscles to the release hand, this is when you will get your first true feeling of back tension.
So follow the advice of others and shorten your draw a little allow your head to rotate to the left, keep the bow arm straight but not locked while drawing and aiming.
Seems like a lot to ask, so just try one change at a time, don't try to do too much at once, shorten the draw readjust peep and shoot it for 30 days.


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## Ninja of Kaos (Sep 21, 2012)

subconsciously said:


> Good call Moe and Mike
> 
> Draw is too long and there is not a definitive anchor on the jaw line. The hand appears to be floating.
> 
> ...


Ok that helps out a lot in finding a coach, I did not realize I had a few in reno! I will definitely give that a try!

What do you mean by floating? Right now my index and middle finger knuckle straddle the bottom of my jaw bone. Is this not a good anchor?


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## Ninja of Kaos (Sep 21, 2012)

carlielos said:


> Shortening the draw means changing your form, Will likely require a peep sight change in height, also and importantly you have to allow your head to rotate to the left when your draw length is shortened, if you maintain the same head position then you have to bend your bow arm, you want your release hand firmly anchored against your head, under your ear behind your jaw bone, when you get it right you can actually apply pressure with your neck and your back muscles to the release hand, this is when you will get your first true feeling of back tension.
> So follow the advice of others and shorten your draw a little allow your head to rotate to the left, keep the bow arm straight but not locked while drawing and aiming.
> Seems like a lot to ask, so just try one change at a time, don't try to do too much at once, shorten the draw readjust peep and shoot it for 30 days.


So right now in that current picture, my bow arm is not locked, it is very close but not quite. So when I shorten my draw length, should I keep the bow arm how it is and just try to adjust my anchor point by rotation of my head?


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