# Shooting left.



## bigbob29 (Sep 7, 2009)

Shoot with fingers and barebow and sometimes when going around our field coure I start shooting left. I have tried most things and seem to have the solution and then next event same thing.I anchor at the corner of the mouth, keep my thumb knuckle tucked in against my jaw so I am parallel to the arrow so that i am not looking cross ways to the point, cover the desired point of aim, my bow hand is steady and sometimes the arrow goes way left. I use a finger tab with calf skin and shoot split fingers, so could it be simply just string rolling on release that does it.My heights are nearly spot most of the time , just these wayward left swingers at times and there is no feeling that that shot was any different to the last.


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## HighCountry46 (Feb 13, 2009)

maybe canting the bow more without realizing it??


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## skc347 (Dec 9, 2004)

*lefts*

:darkbeer: one might ck the tuning of the bow... I have found that (right) HANDED adjust plunger spring... alos might be border line spined arrows. of corse there a a million other things as well have fun????


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## dragonheart (Jul 18, 2008)

*Left*

You may be twisting the string. In shooting bowhunter style, (sounds like what you are describing), I like the draw length be shorter. You might try shortening you draw. As I fatigue if my draw is too long I will shoot left. You may also have the centershot our too far. I shoot with center shot down the middle with 2 under.

Can you post a photo of you at full draw? Front back view?

Help anyway I can.

Jeff


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## bigbob29 (Sep 7, 2009)

Thanks for the replies.I do shoot bowhunter style, ie., fingers, no sights etc, and my arrow is set up just to the left of center [right handed]to counteract archers parodox. I have been through every form drill I can think of , and the only thing I can think of is some time I do swing the bow arm "chasing' the arrow flight. This does account for a few times but there are other times when the bow arm is rock steady and it still occurs. The other thing is I do shoot with a 'dead' release, with my hand remaining at the side of face during release.I would swear I am getting a clean release, but its apparently not a desirable release action even though I have shot that way for 30 years and may account for my problem It always it seems a very clean, uneventful action. About pictures I will try in the next day or so. Thanks.


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## bowjunkie2 (Dec 12, 2004)

Maybe your not getting a clean release by hooking the string. What draw weight are you pulling? Sometimes people pull too much weight and compensate by taking a deeper hook of the string but this can cause excessive string roll which translates into left POI on target.


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## dragonheart (Jul 18, 2008)

Are you peeking to see the arrow? maintaining concentration all the way until the arrow hits? Anticipation of the shot, ever so slight? Bow arm? just food for thought. How many bowhunter shooters are there down under? Popular class?

Jeff


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## zenarch (Aug 3, 2002)

bigbob29 said:


> Shoot with fingers and barebow and sometimes when going around our field coure I start shooting left. I have tried most things and seem to have the solution and then next event same thing.I anchor at the corner of the mouth, keep my thumb knuckle tucked in against my jaw so I am parallel to the arrow so that i am not looking cross ways to the point, cover the desired point of aim, my bow hand is steady and sometimes the arrow goes way left. I use a finger tab with calf skin and shoot split fingers, so could it be simply just string rolling on release that does it.My heights are nearly spot most of the time , just these wayward left swingers at times and there is no feeling that that shot was any different to the last.


Hitting your clothing can cause it too.
Joe B.


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## arrowshooters (Jun 5, 2006)

I would say canting also, along with the other hidden nemesis - torque. Either can be there and you don't even know it. All other aspects of form during the shot will stand out like a sore thumb, but canting and torque will remain under the radar until you actually think about it.


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## bigbob29 (Sep 7, 2009)

I once shot with canted bow but now shoot straight up and down. My grip I have trained myself to think about as part of my shooting form and make sure it is right. I am a big guy and work out a bit so my target bow on 56lb is effortless, my hunting bow is on 66lb and still easy.My thoughts keep returning to release some how, but there is never a shot good or bad in the end result where I think ' that was a bad one'. Bow hunter class over here is like everywhere, once the dominant class, now reduced signifigantly but still getting reasonable numbers at events. We have grades from the novice class in D, right up to A, then higher again master where one must shoot three scores in a year above a certain score to attain, and grand master which is the top of the pile.I managed to return to A grade just now after a 10 year absense from the sport, and have shot one master score lately, but am getting frustrated by this leftie business.May just try using bare fingers again to see if that changes anything.


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## arrowshooters (Jun 5, 2006)

The only real thing that can go wrong with your release is that you would "pluck" the string. But if you are consistanly keeping your hand against you face, this isn't it.

As for canting, you could be canting the bow ever so slightly to throw the arrow off. Even though it feels straight up and down, you could be a just few degrees off and not realize it. This would amount to inches down range.


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## bigbob29 (Sep 7, 2009)

Some say that sometimes one can 'torque' the string with fingers or tab causing the string to roll before release then on release string 'unwinds' throwing arrow off center. Makes sense but dont know if thats my problem. Maybe also I do get a little lean sometimes too, which would account for why it only happens sometimes, and then some of those shots go a foot or more wide at 50 yards


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## Bruce K (Jun 1, 2002)

Do you shoot both eye's open ?
I find if I do I get left arrows , my left Eye must be getting stronger or my right ieye is getting weaker I fiound at the weekend that this was happening to me


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## minnie3 (Jul 28, 2009)

i get a few left arrows but never right arrows and no where near as many as previously. as i've only been shooting a year or so (compound unsighted fingers) i offer this based on my limited expeience. i haven't touched any of my equipment plunger, centre shot etc, but paid a bit more attention to form. i feel the improvement for me came with correcting my grip placement(thumb pointing to the target) changing rear foot position so that my stace has me facing the target a liitle more and bringing the bow shoulder slightly forward at full draw (without rotating). lastly i changed to a $20 calf hair tab just a week ago and only shot left twice during 50 targets at a 3d comp last weekend using that. noted you already use a calf hair tab bigbob, the string comes off them with 2 fingers very nicely though i'm yet to find how they go in the rain.

great thread - so many variables being offered


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## fuelracerpat (May 6, 2008)

Arrowshooter has it right.............just an occasional pluck, concentrate on touching your shoulder with the release hand as you complete the release and follow through. No big deal.


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## dragonheart (Jul 18, 2008)

Here is something to try. Get in front of a mirror. Draw the bow and look at your string at full draw. Is it crooked/twisted? There will be some, but many people, especialy those with sore third fingers (is that happening?) twist the string excessive. This can casue all kinds of issues but the left arrow is one of those issues. We naturally want to twist our hand to a flat position. Shooting fingers keeping your hand flat againts the face can lead to less twist. Al Henderson talked about this many years ago in an article I have.

Just curious want kind of a score on 28 field or hunter is a master class down under?


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## bigbob29 (Sep 7, 2009)

So much good advice from all. I pay particular attention to my hand grip on bow so I think I can eliminate that. Do use a calf skin tab, though I notice it has a pronounced wear pattern on the top finger section.My fingers are fine, and always used to shoot bare fingers before , but since I have returned to sport have been using tab.Possible rear of hand moves out a little while finger is still at anchor point, this would give me a skewed 'aim' at target. I shoot what we call ABA rounds [Australian bowhunter association] where we shoot one round with a max. of three arrows at 20 targets of varying size at different distances from 7 meters to 48 meters. We know each group size is within certain distances ie min. 24 m to 36m for a group 4, but these distances are not marked and range finders are also not allowed. The first arrow to score at each target is it, with scores dimishing for each shot at the one target, Ie 1st arrow A zone is 20, 3rd arrow A is 8pts.We then shoot a 1 arrow round on a different range.Both scores are then combined to give final score. Master class is above 650 out of a possible 800, grand master is above 700, seems easy but with various ranges with vastly different country, ie., up and down hills, across creeks etc at each club's grounds it is not as easy as it might seem. Thanks.


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## bigbob29 (Sep 7, 2009)

Minnie 3 and bruce k, you also raised a few good points, firstly I do shoot both eyes open, and will check that out and my stance varies according to how I approach each target, like, to get better view of a particular target I may turn to one side or the other to get a shot away.


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## bigbob29 (Sep 7, 2009)

Have had eye surgery so maybe dominant eye is not so dominate now. Closed non dominant eye and tried it Seem to go a lot straighter but with the few arrows I shot my sight picture seemed a bit weird and my heightsa little out. Dragonheart am post ing a shot of my ugly self at anchor, but its not a great shot. Also a shot of a group at 25m I tried with left eye closed.Its not so great but it was just barebow, no sights etc.


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## arrowshooters (Jun 5, 2006)

Bob, Things I see:

You've got too hand on your bow. This "could" definitely cause torquing issues unless your shot is perfect.

The way you are leaning back indicates that you're draw length is a bit long. With you're arm that straight it will have your arm moving to the outside when you release causing your shots to hit left. Again unless everything is perfect.

I think you should try rotating your bow hand until the bow sits up on the pad of your thumb. Less hand = less possibility for torque. It's going to feel a little funny but is going to help. This will also push your bow further out a tad helping with your form a bit, but it looks like you could take a half inch to an inch out of your draw length easy.


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## bigbob29 (Sep 7, 2009)

thanks for your reply arrowshooter,
Had some thought about draw length [ had some thought about just about every thing!] and am going to shorten the length on the mod and although the photo doesnt show it the center of riser is right in the v between thumb base and finger. are you suggesting I move my hand so it is biased towards the left of center? I had realised I sometimes lean back which I knew was a sign of too long a draw but until you pointed it out I hadnt noticed it in the photo. I know ---another senior moment Will try your suggestions and see what happens. Thanks.


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## dragonheart (Jul 18, 2008)

*Photo*

Bob,

I believe if you shorten your draw 3 positve things will happen. 
#1: You will have a sense of being able to look straighter at the target/arrow relationship. When we get the draw too long, at full draw might tend to "look into the string, or trying to get our eyes and head "around the string". This can distort vision. 

#2: I think you will have a more definate "kerplunk feeling" for lack of a way to describe it. The bow coming back and hitting the wall without feeling overextended. I think that for good technique and a shooter's health; we need to keep our backs straight and avoid swaying our backs at full draw. Longer draws tend to sway backs. David Hughes told me to "stand up straight" when you shoot a bow. It works, with a long draw and as we fatigue in the match, that begomes increasing difficult to simply stand up straight. 

#3: I believe you will decrease you left arrows. Your eyes will be more in line instead of "cross looking" at the point of arrow. I would recommend shorting an inch, shoot and give it a chance. I would go shorter than you think, until it feels too short then lengthen by 1/4" until you get it just right. I like to feel in control and "behind the bow" at full draw. I avoid the feeling of "my arms spread out". 

Barebow is outa sight! 

With hope for positive change,

Jeff Schulz


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## arrowshooters (Jun 5, 2006)

bigbob29 said:


> are you suggesting I move my hand so it is biased towards the left of center?


Yes. You will be rotating your wrist out so that the bow is on your "thumb pad". If you were to reach out with you hand relaxed, it will be at about a 45 degree angle, This is how you want it on your bow.


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## dragonheart (Jul 18, 2008)

arrowshooters said:


> Yes. You will be rotating your wrist out so that the bow is on your "thumb pad". If you were to reach out with you hand relaxed, it will be at about a 45 degree angle, This is how you want it on your bow.


Yes, yes and yes:guitarist2:


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## KStover (Jan 24, 2009)

bigbob29
I suggest that you watch this video, by Larry Wise. He shows and explains the proper grip.
http://www.bowtube.com/media/6/Get_A_Grip/

Happy Trails
Keith


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## arrowshooters (Jun 5, 2006)

KStover said:


> bigbob29
> I suggest that you watch this video, by Larry Wise. He shows and explains the proper grip.
> http://www.bowtube.com/media/6/Get_A_Grip/
> 
> ...


Yes, this is a good one.:thumbs_up


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## bigbob29 (Sep 7, 2009)

Thanks so much to all of you, now I guess its up to me to digest it all and put it into practice. Will give an update in a week or so to relate how its gone


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## minnie3 (Jul 28, 2009)

bigbob, i found the archery australia(AA) website had an advanced shooting technique download. some helpful information in there relating to grip and stance which i feel helped me


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## marcusjb (Jun 22, 2005)

I don't know what type of cam you are shooting, but some of them will cause left shots depending on how hard you pull against the stop. On these the harder you pull the further left you will shoot.


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## bigbob29 (Sep 7, 2009)

Re marcusjb Hi,
Bow is a 2001 cougar with elite limbs and a fuzion cam. It has no valley, just a solid wall and it is excellent for me to use. Bear in mind that my previous bow was a 20 year old hoyt Impala with hatchet cams and 30% let off at 65lbs. I feel I need to hold some weight to feel comfortable. Really feel that shortening my draw length will be a major benefit.My story is that I have been shooting barebow for the best part of 30 years, but gave it away for around 10 years, and I'm just getting back into it now. It is definitely not like riding a bike 'cause I cant believe how much I've had to chop and change to get some consistancy, but hopefully with all the great advice I have got here I think I will have it all sorted soon.


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## bigbob29 (Sep 7, 2009)

Tried shortening draw length as far as current mod allows, a 1/2'' and feels much better, will be down sizing to a shorter mod to go the full 1''. Also tried the base of thumb grip, and it also feels good. Unfortunately could only try seven arrows as it poured rain again. It's been raining almost non stop for nearly 4 weeks and there is another rain depression brewing further north of us expected to move our way in a next few days.Even the frogs are croaking 'enough'


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## dragonheart (Jul 18, 2008)

You may be shooting your form at close range INDOORS!!


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## bigbob29 (Sep 7, 2009)

Hi Dragonheart[ love the name!] Dont have any such animal in these parts.Our club ranges are laid out in natural surrounds and with only a rudimentary club house dont have the luxury of an indoor range . I have a 44 m outdoor range at the back of my house and nervous neighbours, and its still %^*+ raining!Forgot to mention before that I only shoot our ABA [animal targets on paper, unknown distances] and 3d as well. Cant get much from shooting spots or even ifaa which is a little similar to ABA except that we dont have the known distances per target.


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## arrowshooters (Jun 5, 2006)

If you could get your target into a garage, basement or even under a patio cover, you can work on your form at close range. Won't have to walk so far to retrieve your arrows either :wink:.


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## bigbob29 (Sep 7, 2009)

Yeah, but my house is built on the side of a hill with a 50% slope at the back and my butt is at the top of the slope and I shoot across the level top section. Could probably get about 12m if I shifted the wife's car, but to move my big target bale down the hill, short term, has my back screaming just thinking about it.Rain has stopped at the moment but the wind just blew a dog on a chain complete with hitching post past my door ::darkbeer:lol


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## arrowshooters (Jun 5, 2006)

bigbob29 said:


> .rain has stopped at the moment but the wind just blew a dog on a chain complete with hitching post past my door ::darkbeer:lol


Now that's funny rawght thar!


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## bigbob29 (Sep 7, 2009)

And the crows have to fly backwards to keep the wind out of their eyes too!Gotta watch them smileys too.


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## bigbob29 (Sep 7, 2009)

*was shooting left*

Hi All, 
Just an update .Have changed modules and dropped a good inch off my draw and cant believe the change. It all 'feels' great now as i draw, can feel the relaxed state of bow arm and my head is not screwed to the side. My stance is now straight up [ not leaning back] and best of all in the 100 odd arrows I 've just shot not one was a 'left flyer'. My accuracy and grouping is much improved as well. Feel I may just drop another 1/2'' just to check it out.Only down side is that I will have to shorten my arrows.


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## minnie3 (Jul 28, 2009)

marcusjb said:


> I don't know what type of cam you are shooting, but some of them will cause left shots depending on how hard you pull against the stop. On these the harder you pull the further left you will shoot.


i'd like to ask please which cams might these be?
the hoyt 1 1/2 maybe?, as this sounds a bit familiar.

bigbob, one of our best 3dAAA MCU shooters, shoots that same martin cougar and made the top ten shootout (the only unsighted finger shooter probably ever) at the nsw state titles at moonan flat last nov.


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## bigbob29 (Sep 7, 2009)

Hi there minnie3,
See you are from NSW, I am a banana bender myself and know that good finger barebow shooters can get within range of the sighted classes,and my old martin couger is a terrific finger bow. Just won my grade at our recent Zone 3d titles[albiet in C grade as my upgrading hasnt happened yet] and that was before I dropped the draw length. First time for me to shoot 3D in the past 15 years.Actually prefer 3D over ABA animal targets .Do you shoot ABA too or just AAA?


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## dragonheart (Jul 18, 2008)

Bob,

greetings from Texas! That is awesome to here about your improvement in form. There is a kERPLUNK! feeling when the bow's draw is right for you. The bow arm has a great relaxed feeling and you find ease in maintain back tension, the key to "keepin um down the middle". You can line up the windage with ease and you are not looking around the string! I am shooting a Hoyt Aspen with command cams and this bow is forgiving. I shot a nice doe with my Martin Cougar II, nonsighted a few years ago. Glad to hear your continued shooting success. Life is too short to shoot too long a draw length.

Jeff Schulz


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## bigbob29 (Sep 7, 2009)

Thanks for the kind words, Jeff.Yep now when i draw every thing just seems to fall into place like it belongs together. I think it has been a combination of a lot of things that helped.Mostly the draw length but my grip was a little out before, and now its at the base of thumb as advised. It too, feels natural so hopefully i might go up a few grades again soon. Regards to all over there that offered advise. Keep flinging with fingers, only way to go!


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## arrowshooters (Jun 5, 2006)

Hey Man, glad you're getting it all worked out.


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## bigbob29 (Sep 7, 2009)

Hi there Arrowshooters,
Yep. things look a lot better now, and can feel my confidence coming right back. As you would well know, its all about believing in your own ability, and that was severely shot for a while with those wayward left shots that threw themselves in there at times. All the best from down under.


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