# pro am 2014 list of targets



## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

2014 target lists hasnt been released yet......2013 still has a week (the Classic) to get through.....they will have that list then.


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## SMshootsmathews (Feb 4, 2013)

Maybe they'll add another deer.


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

SMshootsmathews said:


> Maybe they'll add another deer.


As long as its a Rhinehart. 

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## outbackarcher (Oct 31, 2005)

tmorelli said:


> As long as its a Rhinehart.
> 
> Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


I shot the 3rd leg of the IBO and the Rhinehart targets impressed me. Mckenzie has a lot of catching up to do.


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

tmorelli said:


> As long as its a Rhinehart.
> 
> Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


You have a better chance of winning the lotto


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

bhtr3d said:


> You have a better chance of winning the lotto


Oh I know. But the jab seemed appropriate.... and it feels good to headbutt Delta and kick them while they're down. Delta sucks.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


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## jcz7 (Jul 23, 2013)

Thanks for the info.


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

tmorelli said:


> Oh I know. But the jab seemed appropriate.... and it feels good to headbutt Delta and kick them while they're down. Delta sucks.
> 
> Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


aka McKJunks


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## SMshootsmathews (Feb 4, 2013)

I'm all for shooting rineharts. And elk, caribou, etc. everyone can judge deer, pigs, and sheep. Maybe they'll spice it up a little this year.


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

Maybe they should just say, "Any of the Rinehart series of targets can and will be used at any ASA major event. No two events will use exactly the same 20 3-D animals. At each event, however, the same 20 animals will be used on all courses for that particular event, but not announed in advance." In addition, the animals used during the shootdown for the finals will be different from those used out on the competition courses during the event.
Could make things really interesting and judging distances instead of judging animals/memorizing them.
field14 (Tom D.)


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## sagecreek (Jul 15, 2003)

I wish Delta would get their head out of their butts before it's too late. lain:


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

field14 said:


> Maybe they should just say, "Any of the Rinehart series of targets can and will be used at any ASA major event. No two events will use exactly the same 20 3-D animals. At each event, however, the same 20 animals will be used on all courses for that particular event, but not announed in advance." In addition, the animals used during the shootdown for the finals will be different from those used out on the competition courses during the event.
> Could make things really interesting and judging distances instead of judging animals/memorizing them.
> field14 (Tom D.)


The effect wouldn't be what you think. It doesn't level the playing field from it's current level, it caters to the few who have ranges of Rhineharts and McKenzie's to practice on because they already shoot ASA and IBO.


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## STRICNINE (Oct 22, 2012)

I like the above mentioned idea of using the non traditional McKenzies in the tourneys to mix things up. Throw in a few new targets like the Alligator, Bison, Bobcat, Armadillo, Strutting Turkey, Racoon, Elk, etc.

I feel like at a national event you should see something you have never seen before (not canting every single target to save cores), keeps people guessing. Maybe Delta could release a "new" target each year that debuted at the Classic and the particpants would be the first to be able to purchase one


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

tmorelli said:


> The effect wouldn't be what you think. It doesn't level the playing field from it's current level, it caters to the few who have ranges of Rhineharts and McKenzie's to practice on because they already shoot ASA and IBO.


Yes, but by not announcing the full "Test" in advance, those same folks that have money to burn would have to try to memorize upwards of what, 50 or more different animals that can be used at any tournament at any time...and changes from tournament to tournament AND in the shoot down too? 
By not having the same exact 20 animals at every tournament during the year and mixing them up for each event...it would make it much tougher to "study for the test". Then, the shootdown would be anyone's "guess" as to what they'll be shooting.

Just sayin'...and of course I realize that it is a "fantasy" that would never happen anyways.


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## 3rdplace (Jan 3, 2004)

Just remember Delta/McKenzie is the tour sponsor. Unless someone else steps up and sponsors it McKenzies will be all we shoot.


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

3rdplace said:


> Just remember Delta/McKenzie is the tour sponsor. Unless someone else steps up and sponsors it McKenzies will be all we shoot.


There is no way it pays off for them in retail sales to shooters/clubs. Every tournament is just a showcase of why not to buy McKenzie.

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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

I'm thinking even if rinehart did step up......that bridge is burned


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

Garceau said:


> I'm thinking even if rinehart did step up......that bridge is burned


I think you're right. 

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## sagecreek (Jul 15, 2003)

Garceau said:


> I'm thinking even if rinehart did step up......that bridge is burned


Maybe not so much for the ASA replacement, Regions. :spy:


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

sagecreek said:


> Maybe not so much for the ASA replacement, Regions. :spy:


I don't see that happening


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

sagecreek said:


> Maybe not so much for the ASA replacement, Regions. :spy:


I think thats even less a chance of happening.......

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## schmel_me (Dec 17, 2003)

I think It would be smart on regions part to go with rhineharts but they are copying asa to the letter. so I don't see that happening.


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## hrtlnd164 (Mar 22, 2008)

schmel_me said:


> I think It would be smart on regions part to go with rhineharts but they are copying asa to the letter. so I don't see that happening.


With the Region's owner being involved with Hoyt/Easton/Delta-Mckenzie; I doubt you will see many Rhineharts on their courses. It is a shame to see their quality deteriorate.


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## rigginuts (Dec 27, 2008)

tmorelli said:


> There is no way it pays off for them in retail sales to shooters/clubs. Every tournament is just a showcase of why not to buy McKenzie.
> 
> Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


X2, I'm in the market for several new targets but after shooting the ASA tournments it won't be McKenzie's.


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## Luv2shoot3D (Feb 4, 2013)

Why did rinehart and ASA part ways


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## nochance (Nov 27, 2008)

field14 said:


> Yes, but by not announcing the full "Test" in advance, those same folks that have money to burn would have to try to memorize upwards of what, 50 or more different animals that can be used at any tournament at any time...and changes from tournament to tournament AND in the shoot down too?
> By not having the same exact 20 animals at every tournament during the year and mixing them up for each event...it would make it much tougher to "study for the test". Then, the shootdown would be anyone's "guess" as to what they'll be shooting.
> 
> Just sayin'...and of course I realize that it is a "fantasy" that would never happen anyways.


I'd be ok with that


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## sagecreek (Jul 15, 2003)

Tallcatt just announce target list will stay the same except Blesbok might be replaced. Don't know for sure. Bring back the Ibex. lain:


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## Brian from GA (Aug 15, 2002)

Luv2shoot3D said:


> Why did rinehart and ASA part ways


 Readers Digest version only... ASA and Rinehart had a 4 or 5 year deal. It had bumps but was mostly good for ASA and great for Rinehart. With a year and a half to go in the contract John Rinehart told ASA that he was going to begin charging $10 per shooter that shot his targets at ASA events. Needless to say the two groups finished up the year and ended the contract with one year remaining forcing ASA to go back to McKs.


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## EROS (Feb 15, 2004)

It's sad I think the Mckenzie had a good thing with the XT target with the core replacement. Hopefully they will get back to that target for next year.


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## t8ter (Apr 7, 2003)

I'm a big rhinhart fan but the targets we shot at the classic where the best mckenzies I've seen so far.Heard some rumors why?I was going home with a couple of targets but backed out.Going to wait in see if these changes hold up.


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

t8ter said:


> I'm a big rhinhart fan but the targets we shot at the classic where the best mckenzies I've seen so far.Heard some rumors why?I was going home with a couple of targets but backed out.Going to wait in see if these changes hold up.


Really? 

I saw multiple targets where the "skin" had not been completely filled with foam internally which left big hollow spots like blisters.

I'm going to buy targets but I'm going to buy them from Art Brown. His repaired targets are far better than new ones from Delta.


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## Tallcatt (Jul 27, 2003)

I thought the targets at the Classic held up well on the competition ranges. There were several new prototype test cores on the practice range targets that had a new foam compound that will be evaluated. Delta/McKenzie is well aware of all the issues. They are working hard to correct them.

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## Pincher (Jul 20, 2013)

Tallcatt said:


> I thought the targets at the Classic held up well on the competition ranges. There were several new prototype test cores on the practice range targets that had a new foam compound that will be evaluated. Delta/McKenzie is well aware of all the issues. They are working hard to correct them.
> 
> Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2


thats easy , stop using cheap ingredients and use the quality ingredients in the percentages/formula required to make a quality, long lasting target, you know , like they used to make before deciding to go cheaper and hoping they could get get away with it and make more $$ without dropping the price per target and putting out crap.


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## Crow Terminator (Jan 21, 2003)

I saw the same thing Tate mentioned. The targets on J & I range were shot by several classes of shooters, and the longest target we had was 30 yards. So they took quite a beating...but held together far better than what I saw in Florida and Kentucky. The course I shot on Saturday evening had started to show a bit of wear on the closer targets, BUT when my wife shot the same course on Sunday morning, they had either replaced the inserts, or turned them around, because none of them were shot up. BUT...on the black targets, the paint was still coming off, revealing the brown color underneath...same for the antelope, in which the white paint was coming off. Overall though...they held up pretty good IMO...compared to what we saw earlier in the year.


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## smoran (Feb 21, 2009)

I don't understand why a person would want the list of targets, well I do but to me it's irrelevant. Up here in Canada that's not even something I think we would consider. You go to a shoot, shoot what's there, have fun. I'm sure most of the guys I shoot with and against enjoy the variety of targets, and not knowing what there shooting at till there on the stake. It's part of 3d archery, you get to your stake, find the rings, judge your distance and take your shot. Having a list of targets to me takes something out of it, suppose they threw a target out there that wasn't on the list, the amount of people complaining would be unreal!! No list, no complaints, just shoot what they set out for you, same for everyone. I'd get tired of shooting the same 20 animals shoot after shoot, nothing like taking a poke at a raptor at 45 yards, rather than the same ole mule deer. Id love to make it to an ASA shoot, that's deffinately on my to-do, they look incredibly well run and tons of fun, but the list is something I wouldn't want, I like the "surprise" of getting to the stake to see what I'm shooting.


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## Tallcatt (Jul 27, 2003)

tmorelli said:


> Really?
> 
> I saw multiple targets where the "skin" had not been completely filled with foam internally which left big hollow spots like blisters.
> 
> I'm going to buy targets but I'm going to buy them from Art Brown. His repaired targets are far better than new ones from Delta.





Crow Terminator said:


> I saw the same thing Tate mentioned. The targets on J & I range were shot by several classes of shooters, and the longest target we had was 30 yards. So they took quite a beating...but held together far better than what I saw in Florida and Kentucky. The course I shot on Saturday evening had started to show a bit of wear on the closer targets, BUT when my wife shot the same course on Sunday morning, they had either replaced the inserts, or turned them around, because none of them were shot up. BUT...on the black targets, the paint was still coming off, revealing the brown color underneath...same for the antelope, in which the white paint was coming off. Overall though...they held up pretty good IMO...compared to what we saw earlier in the year.


The problem concerning both of the issues mentioned above has hopefully been resolved. The process of applying an activator or catalyst to the mold before pouring that helps the paint to adhere and cure has been modified. This should also help reduce "skin" imperfections. I did not get any information about the brown foam showing thru on some of the targets. In the meeting we did throw out the idea of simply painting the black bear a brown color. 

Dont shoot the messenger....I am just trying to get y'all the most current and accurate info that I received in the directors meeting.

Remember guys......I shoot these targets too. I shot about 80 targets this weekend and the only really "shot out" 12's I encountered were the close ones on the Known 40 Sims and the close ones on the short practice range. 

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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

Mike, I should've taken a picture because I can't describe it well. On the practice range, the long Sims and the A/B ranges, I saw targets that literally were not filled with foam. 

I didn't know targets were built with an outer "skin" approximately 1/4-3/8" thick (from memory) until I saw this. You could place your hand on the target to pull arrows with the other and it would just crumple and rip like a rotten cardboard box because there was no foam underneath it.


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

t8ter said:


> I'm a big rhinhart fan but the targets we shot at the classic where the best mckenzies I've seen so far.Heard some rumors why?I was going home with a couple of targets but backed out.Going to wait in see if these changes hold up.


Targets were the same that i shot all year. Buried to fletchings, shooting through by Saturday, legs breaking off etc.......

Id rather put arrow lube on and be back to the old formula.

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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

I really believe that they are making the targets this poor so that we have to buy replacements on a regular basis, they know we are serious about winning and will continue to buy them even though they suck.

My proof is the old targets that have been hammered for years at many of the local shoots that simply look better than a asa target after a few shots.


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## Crow Terminator (Jan 21, 2003)

Padgett -- I would like to thank you for your suggestion to me a while back on the forum. You responded to a thread I had made about me having a problem shooting to the left on 3D targets...vs hitting dots really well. You said you have the same problem, and had bought one of those half target things...that is just the kill zone of a deer with ASA scoring rings. I went and bought one of those after you told me about them, and I think that helped me and my wife both at the Classic. I shot my highest score ever in an ASA and so did my wife...didn't battle those left hits at all. The target is also made by Delta/McKenzie...and despite being just a couple weeks old now, it already has chunks shot out of it as well...but for the low cost of them, they are as cheap as buying an entire insert of anything else anyway. They have them in black now, to represent a bear/boar.


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## Tallcatt (Jul 27, 2003)

Garceau said:


> Targets were the same that i shot all year. Buried to fletchings, shooting through by Saturday, legs breaking off etc.......
> 
> Id rather put arrow lube on and be back to the old formula.
> 
> Sent from my Motorola Electrify using Tapatalk 2


I shot the Super Sr. range K & L which had been shot on the Thursday and Friday team shoots and by the Eagles on Sat morning. We did not have one arrow that came close to burying to fletching. Matter of fact....I did not see one even penetrate the point out the back side. I did not see any 3 legged targets. We had no problem with chunked out or distorted scoring rings. The close targets on Sims Known 40 (short Sims) were in pretty bad shape Sat morning but the competition range targets were in good shape for the amount of shots put into them. The ranges you shot must have been a real disaster area.:sad:


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

Tallcatt said:


> I shot the Super Sr. range K & L which had been shot on the Thursday and Friday team shoots and by the Eagles on Sat morning. We did not have one arrow that came close to burying to fletching. Matter of fact....I did not see one even penetrate the point out the back side. I did not see any 3 legged targets. We had no problem with chunked out or distorted scoring rings. The close targets on Sims Known 40 (short Sims) were in pretty bad shape Sat morning but the competition range targets were in good shape for the amount of shots put into them. The ranges you shot must have been a real disaster area.:sad:


I shot an 8 low on the blesbuck in an area that wasnt shot up at all. Went to fletching, we all commented on it and felt around and it was a big void in the foam. Strange.....

Targets were shot to hell sunday. Not by me- i managed to hit them where everyone else didnt......sadly

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## dcaudle1 (Jan 30, 2011)

tmorelli said:


> Really?
> 
> I saw multiple targets where the "skin" had not been completely filled with foam internally which left big hollow spots like blisters.
> 
> I'm going to buy targets but I'm going to buy them from Art Brown. His repaired targets are far better than new ones from Delta.


Do you mean like this? The head of this Blesbok wouldn't stay attached due to the giant hollow spot inside of the attachment channel and neck!


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

Garceau said:


> I shot an 8 low on the blesbuck in an area that wasnt shot up at all. Went to fletching, we all commented on it and felt around and it was a big void in the foam. Strange.....
> 
> Targets were shot to hell sunday. Not by me- i managed to hit them where everyone else didnt......sadly
> 
> Sent from my Motorola Electrify using Tapatalk 2


Mike,,, he is telling the truth about what happen to him. there was a complete air bubble in the target. We were about to litterly push are fists into the target about 2inches before it stopped. 

Good thing we are getting rid of this animal....All, the others were pretty good though,


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## sagecreek (Jul 15, 2003)

This is my Black Buck I bought 2 months ago. I can't tell you how happy I am with my purchase.


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## sagecreek (Jul 15, 2003)

They just need to go back to DuraFlex for the mid body and EasyFlex for the cores.


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## shootist (Aug 28, 2003)

There was a target on A range that the top of the 10 line didn't connect to make a perfect circle. It was a bad flaw and should have been weeded out before ending up on a range. The last time I spoke to Mckenzie about buy "seconds", they told me they didn't have any "seconds". Now I know why. They ship them to the ASA apparently.


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

It is blatantly obvious Delta/McKenzie is working VERY hard to decrease _their _cost to build targets. Consequently they are now having to work very hard to find the bare minimum threshold for quality that will quiet their consumers.

If anyone thinks for one moment that Delta/McKenzie seriously compromised the quality of their product for ANY reason other than their bottom line then they are clueless. If Delta/McKenzie did it for any other reason then THEY are more than clueless. They simply went too far with the changes AND without product testing but I guess with the ASA being under their thumb they did not feel compelled to more than half way test their product before the start of the ASA tournament season.

- Target sections fitting together poorly and cores fitting poorly. It doesn't take much quality control and testing to find this "problem".

- Black paint being removed from black targets when an arrow is pulled revealing lighter brown foam. It would have taken mere minutes of testing to find this problem.... I suspect Delta/McKenzie knew the new black targets would quickly have light brown dots but failed _miserably_ to realize it was a problem. :doh:

- The "new" foam having poor durability. I find it hard to believe Delta/McKenzie had no idea of the durability of the foam. What they seriously under estimated was the expectations of their customers! They chose to degrade the quality of the product but misjudged (or did they) their customers expectations. 

- Targets not physically staying up right. I don't know whether it is a product fault, the fault of the course setters or simply poor specs for setting them up. This is something I woudl think the ASA and Delta/McKenzie could figure out with little cost involved.

I have no idea where inside of Delta/McKenzie each and every faux pas originated. Whether it was the chemists, engineers, sales/marketing, bean counters, ownership/management or a combination of the business sections. Where the mistakes originated is not of ANY importance to the customers. In the end customers get a "lesser" product.

Let's face it, whatever the ASA sets up we will shoot. Obviously Delta/McKenzie also knows this. They chose to leverage the power of the ASA and the quality of the ASA product to their advantage. The ASA should bill Delta/McKenzie for hundreds of hours of field testing the McKjunks....... Maybe the ASA did or does have significant financial reason for putting up with Delta/McKenzie delivering McKjunks and the ASA membership paying to field test the targets in tournaments. 

You would think Delta/McKenzie and the ASA could find a few 3D pro's that would set the "test" targets up on their personal courses for testing rather than exposing the entire ASA tournament customer base to their experiments.

In the end the targets we shot at tournaments are the responsibility of the *ASA* and NOT Delta/McKenzie. We pay the ASA to be a member and to participate in tournaments. The ASA chooses the target manufacturer and the specific targets. Ultimately as ASA members we should be complaining to the ASA that the targets they are _choosing _to use are not satisfactory.


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## Crow Terminator (Jan 21, 2003)

Here is one of our targets from the 2nd round....this was the condition of most targets on I & J range. As I said, I don't know whether the targets just held together better...or if they swapped inserts out on them between shoot times...but this was towards the end of our last round and this target is in great shape compared to what we saw earlier in the year. At least I think so. I didn't take many pics down there...we moved so fast in our rounds that I didn't have much time to play with the camera. This was a target that all 4 of us in the group managed to shoot a 12 on....somehow. Albeit, all of them were what one guy in our group called "jar licker 12s" lol.


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## mtn3531 (Mar 6, 2009)

Crow Terminator said:


> Here is one of our targets from the 2nd round....this was the condition of most targets on I & J range. As I said, I don't know whether the targets just held together better...or if they swapped inserts out on them between shoot times...but this was towards the end of our last round and this target is in great shape compared to what we saw earlier in the year. At least I think so. I didn't take many pics down there...we moved so fast in our rounds that I didn't have much time to play with the camera. This was a target that all 4 of us in the group managed to shoot a 12 on....somehow. Albeit, all of them were what one guy in our group called "jar licker 12s" lol.


Crow, they were changing inserts in between rounds and in some classes halfway between rounds. They had enough complaints at KY and IL to make sure that didn't happen again. Not bad for a bunch of window lickers to shoot some jar lickers lol


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