# BCY 8190f - Let's hear your reviews of it



## Bownut400 (May 29, 2007)

Hey Brian, I put 8190f on my bow prior to elk hunting, well Tom did (ex-wolverine). I didn't have time prior to my hunt so Tom helped me out. Any way After picking it up from Tom i have a few hundred shots prior to going hunting. Zero peep rotation or cam timing issues even after bouncing around in my pick up and utv. I used my backpack to haul my bow up and down the mountains and no issues with string fraying. I will keep shooting it and report back if anything is different.


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## dwagoner (Sep 27, 2007)

OR Fury is the same as 8190...???? since it was produced before brownell...... its just 8190 without the Gore so slightly smaller and thus more strands to make same bundle size... 

Get your info correct before making stupid remarks that arent even true......you got a spool so build something with it.....its not a new material, its just smaller diameter strand



2X_LUNG said:


> I got a spool of the new BCY 8190f but haven't built a set yet. Anyone have any opinions of it? Other than it's the same as fury. lol


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## 2X_LUNG (May 9, 2009)

So if it's without gore, its different, jack wagon!


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## 2X_LUNG (May 9, 2009)

Bownut400 said:


> Hey Brian, I put 8190f on my bow prior to elk hunting, well Tom did (ex-wolverine). I didn't have time prior to my hunt so Tom helped me out. Any way After picking it up from Tom i have a few hundred shots prior to going hunting. Zero peep rotation or cam timing issues even after bouncing around in my pick up and utv. I used my backpack to haul my bow up and down the mountains and no issues with string fraying. I will keep shooting it and report back if anything is different.


Thanks butch! That's awesome to hear


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## Bownut400 (May 29, 2007)

Mr helpful is at it again. Lol


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## 2X_LUNG (May 9, 2009)

According to jackwagon, 8190, 8190f and fury are all the same. Such an expert


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## Earle J's Custom Strings (Nov 26, 2014)

It is a pretty low wax material, Lisa at BCY tells me that all of it is going to be low wax. 

the tag ends stay put really well, It does not finish quite as nice as fury, but nice enough, Pretty stable too, i am sure that can be contributed to the strand count, but either way its a joy to build with and The colors from BCY are nicer than Brownell


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## 2X_LUNG (May 9, 2009)

Awesome!


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## Bowhuntr85 (Mar 27, 2014)

I wrote up a post the day after BCY 8190F was released publicly..... Nice long honest review and detailed description..... The Brownell "fury" specific fanboys went ape crazy on it! I will come out and say I recently demo shot for a week a set of fury threads and I wouldn't even use them as a backup set.... We know nothing about the material period other than it says fury on the spool


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## Huntinsker (Feb 9, 2012)

Bowhuntr85 said:


> I wrote up a post the day after BCY 8190F was released publicly..... Nice long honest review and detailed description..... The Brownell "fury" specific fanboys went ape crazy on it!* I will come out and say I recently demo shot for a week a set of fury threads and I wouldn't even use them as a backup set.... We know nothing about the material period other than it says fury on the spool*


Haha! You make a statement about Fury fanboys and then come out and say something "BCY fanboy" like that? That's hilarious. 

I think you'll find that people are very satisfied with both 8190f and Fury. Pick your poison and have fun shooting it.


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## Earle J's Custom Strings (Nov 26, 2014)

Bowhuntr85 said:


> I wrote up a post the day after BCY 8190F was released publicly..... Nice long honest review and detailed description..... The Brownell "fury" specific fanboys went ape crazy on it! I will come out and say I recently demo shot for a week a set of fury threads and I wouldn't even use them as a backup set.... We know nothing about the material period other than it says fury on the spool


I am with Huntinsker on this one.

I have used a ton of Fury and you may not know the exact Grade dyneema used, but shouldnt it be enough that it be judged on results? If you Judge it by the overwhelming Success it has had then there are things we all know about it. For example, Fury has been in my experience the most consistent material spool to spool, one of the best looking, Super stable, and very very durable. Fury is an outstanding material, And my change to BCY 8190F is purely personal preference. If you "Demo" shot a set of Fury threads and they were junk, then it was certainly the string builder's fault and not the material.


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## Bowhuntr85 (Mar 27, 2014)

^^^ most likely a build issue I agree, but X bow company comes out with a bow and tells you nothing about it and basically forces the user to do in depth research and still not have a clue what you are holding in your hands? I 100 % would not use it even if it was the current rave? Huntinsker I think was the first reply to my 8190F original post bashing the new product calling it a fury nock off so I expected to see a repost...


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## Huntinsker (Feb 9, 2012)

Bowhuntr85 said:


> ^^^ most likely a build issue I agree, but X bow company comes out with a bow and tells you nothing about it and basically forces the user to do in depth research and still not have a clue what you are holding in your hands? I 100 % would not use it even if it was the current rave? Huntinsker I think was the first reply to my 8190F original post bashing the new product calling it a fury nock off so I expected to see a repost...


I've never bashed 8190f. I simply said I think it's funny how all of a sudden an unblended material which is very similar to Fury is the new "bees knees" to all the guys that previously had such negative opinions about Fury when it was released. It was funny to see how the brand name changes things is all. Some may call it fanboyism. I call it hypocritical.


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## Brownell (May 2, 2011)

The funny part is that there is clearly a hidden agenda by people that claim "we don't even know what it is" . People complained that they didn't know what FURY was , so we told them. Then they told us we were lying or that the other guys used it first. LOL!!!!! Maybe this is why my predecessors didn't fight this battle? 



Bowhuntr85 said:


> I wrote up a post the day after BCY 8190F was released publicly..... Nice long honest review and detailed description..... The Brownell "fury" specific fanboys went ape crazy on it! I will come out and say I recently demo shot for a week a set of fury threads and I wouldn't even use them as a backup set.... We know nothing about the material period other than it says fury on the spool


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## dwagoner (Sep 27, 2007)

Brownell said:


> The funny part is that there is clearly a hidden agenda by people that claim "we don't even know what it is" . People complained that they didn't know what FURY was , so we told them. Then they told us we were lying or that the other guys used it first. LOL!!!!! Maybe this is why my predecessors didn't fight this battle?


NO Brownell has not posted the exact material of Fury,pls show me on the website or packaging anywhere that it tells you anything??? you and chris say its just "sk90" but thats just hear-say......and 8190 made from SK90 Dyneema material was out before fury.....and 8190F is the exact thing just minus gore.....give it up pls....

Lotsa new bow releases going on and not one company using fury yet?????? whats up?


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## Brownell (May 2, 2011)

Dennis, I apologize for taking a few days to respond, Im sure you've been refreshing your computer hourly to see what you can jab back at me with. If you haven't read my 500 other posts on using the branded Dyneema name then idk what to tell you. As far as 2016 model bows............ id do some research before you spread more incorrect information!



dwagoner said:


> NO Brownell has not posted the exact material of Fury,pls show me on the website or packaging anywhere that it tells you anything??? you and chris say its just "sk90" but thats just hear-say......and 8190 made from SK90 Dyneema material was out before fury.....and 8190F is the exact thing just minus gore.....give it up pls....
> 
> Lotsa new bow releases going on and not one company using fury yet?????? whats up?


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## jim p (Oct 29, 2003)

A couple of months ago I decided to use some fury. At the time the 8190f was not on the market. 

I have not had any problems with the fury so I will use up my spool and then decide if I want to give 8190f a try.

The fury does not fuzz as some blended materials fuzz. 

I still have not seen any pictures of 8190f strings. I have asked several times for pictures of 8190f strings to be posted but I have not seen any pictures posted. This makes me wonder if the fury looks better and no one wants to show me what 8190f looks like.

I have always used bcy but now I am using fury until something better comes along.

So let the string builders start battling it out over which material is best and why. I think that it is probably a draw before the first insult starts.


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## dmacey (Mar 27, 2015)

I think I'm just going to break down and order a spool of 8190F myself to see what all the fuss is about. I don't have any strings that need made right now, but I might be able to justify a few backup strings so I can just see for myself lol.

Fury will be next....

DM


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## ex-wolverine (Dec 31, 2004)

jim p said:


> A couple of months ago I decided to use some fury. At the time the 8190f was not on the market.
> 
> I have not had any problems with the fury so I will use up my spool and then decide if I want to give 8190f a try.
> 
> ...


Ok

Let's put it this way if in fact fury is sk90 then it can't be better than 8190F , because they are both the same ... They can be equal to each other but not better than each other 

Now here is my opinion take it for what it's worth ... I have a lot of experiance with Brownell ... I have been on their website for years when I had some success with their products ... Myself and a few others did some R&D for them also ...Just a little background so you don't think I'm talking our my ass

Here is where the 8190F fits into more of my build style and company 

1. Much wider selection of colors 
2. I know that it is 100% sk90 Dyneema 
3. Retail price is cheaper than fury 
4. It has a water based dye and easier to work with wax content than Brownell coatings .. With Bcy I can easily separate strands with out strands spiderwebbing or sticking together ... 

The only real difference between the two is the coatings , that's if Fury is what Brownell says it is (sk90) . Personally I don't like my strands sticking together when doing string maintenance ... 

I want to reiterate that from a chemistry speaking stand point , one can not be better than the other if they are both sk90.. Right ? The only difference is the coatings ... One is water based and o believe the other is solvent based

Just like a bow Jim , you have to shoot it to see if it fits you ... Buy an 1/8 pound spool and test it your self ... 

I have a bunch of sets out there and people love them , just like people like fury ...


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## dmacey (Mar 27, 2015)

Are these pics 8190F or Fury? Super nice either way!

DM


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## ex-wolverine (Dec 31, 2004)

dmacey said:


> Are these pics 8190F or Fury? Super nice either way!
> 
> DM


All 8190 f per Jim p request

Thanks for the words


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## Huntinsker (Feb 9, 2012)

ex-wolverine said:


> Ok
> 
> Let's put it this way if in fact fury is sk90 then it can't be better than 8190F , because they are both the same ... They can be equal to each other but not better than each other
> 
> ...


Just because the materials are possibly made from the same base material does not mean that they are the same or that they will even perform the same. I'll use cooking as an example. 

You're a world class chef and I'm a home kitchen hack. We each get a breast off the same chicken and the same seasonings and are told to cook it the best we can. Chances are, you, the world class chef, will come out with a better chicken breast than I would. It's all in the preparation.

Just playing a little devil's advocate. I haven't used 8190f but I have used 8190 and if you take out the gore, you can see that there are some differences between the base 8190 and Fury. It may be the dyes and finishes that you said or it may be how they spin the yarn. Either way, they're different enough to have slightly different qualities and alike enough to both be good materials. Pick whichever one you want and be confident in it.


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## Twisted X Bowstrings (Mar 23, 2013)

Fury and 8190F are very close when it comes to pre-stretch characteristics. I believe the reason Fury tends to creep slightly less than 8190F is because the Fury appears to have a tighter woven strand. Tighter weave means less ability to move. 8190F makes a better looking string than bcy X buts it's purely due to it having a smaller strand size. Fury and 8190F look nothing alike, Fury is a lot smoother looking. I tried the 8190F because I wasn't completely happy with the wax content in some of the Fury colors. Brownell has listened to the builders and the wax content has been reduced so I have no reason to use the 8190F anymore, I use X so there isn't any benefit for me to keep 2 materials that look almost identical. I'm not for or against one company over the other, I utilize materials from both. If I had to use one material I'd use Fury. Fury is the most consistent material available. I've never had a flaw in a spool of Fury that caused me to have to scrap a piece. I would like to see more colors and possibly brighter colors and that might very well be in the works from what I understand. Both companies have some benefits over the other but that's normal. If anyone thinks 8190 and 8190F are the same you're out of your mind. Bcy wouldn't have removed the Gore if Fury wasn't so popular, they did it to be able to compete with Fury. The fact that most peoples only argument against Fury is that you don't know exactly what it's made out of is nothing more than an attempt to promote one company over the other. I've never had a customer ask if I know 100% for certain what grade of material I use and nobody else has either unless customers ask because they read some ridiculous claims on forums. If you have had a string set made with Fury creep, the builder didn't build it correctly. Nobody cares what it's made of, they just want to know that a material doesn't creep or fuzz and Fury does neither of those.


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## ex-wolverine (Dec 31, 2004)

sniper10177 said:


> Fury and 8190F are very close when it comes to pre-stretch characteristics. I believe the reason Fury tends to creep slightly less than 8190F is because the Fury appears to have a tighter woven strand. Tighter weave means less ability to move. 8190F makes a better looking string than bcy X buts it's purely due to it having a smaller strand size. Fury and 8190F look nothing alike, Fury is a lot smoother looking. I tried the 8190F because I wasn't completely happy with the wax content in some of the Fury colors. Brownell has listened to the builders and the wax content has been reduced so I have no reason to use the 8190F anymore, I use X so there isn't any benefit for me to keep 2 materials that look almost identical. I'm not for or against one company over the other, I utilize materials from both. If I had to use one material I'd use Fury. Fury is the most consistent material available. I've never had a flaw in a spool of Fury that caused me to have to scrap a piece. I would like to see more colors and possibly brighter colors and that might very well be in the works from what I understand. Both companies have some benefits over the other but that's normal. If anyone thinks 8190 and 8190F are the same you're out of your mind. Bcy wouldn't have removed the Gore if Fury wasn't so popular, they did it to be able to compete with Fury. The fact that most peoples only argument against Fury is that you don't know exactly what it's *made out of is nothing more than an attempt to promote one company over the other*. I've never had a customer ask if I know 100% for certain what grade of material I use and nobody else has either unless customers ask because they read some ridiculous claims on forums. If you have had a string set made with Fury creep, the builder didn't build it correctly. Nobody cares what it's made of, they just want to know that a material doesn't creep or fuzz and Fury does neither of those.



No that's not it...

As a manufacture of something (I) want to know what it is...I want to know what I'm selling my customers...I have people all the time ask me what the material is made of...Does it have dyneema or vectran in it? Whats in the material that makes 452X better than X or 8190 , or vise versa...I'm not going to say , ahh its good stuff trust me...Just shoot it and have a cup of shut the hell up...Smh 

I'm not going to baffle my customers with BS...

My question is, ifs it proprietary, why not patent it and then explain what it is? As a matter of fact as a manufacture I have a right to know what I'm giving my customers and they have a right also...That's just me, you guys can run your business any way you want

Like I said above ; SK90 is SK90 until someone proves us different...


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## Twisted X Bowstrings (Mar 23, 2013)

ex-wolverine said:


> No that's not it...
> 
> As a manufacture of something (I) want to know what it is...I want to know what I'm selling my customers...I have people all the time ask me what the material is made of...Does it have dyneema or vectran in it? Whats in the material that makes 452X better than X or 8190 , or vise versa...I'm not going to say , ahh its good stuff trust me...Just shoot it and have a cup of shut the hell up...Smh
> 
> ...


When they do say what it's made of everyone calls them out as liars so what would be the point in trying to make people happy that aren't ever gonna use the product anyway. They have said that Fury is sk90 dyneema and the die hard bcy guys choose not to believe them. I've never had a customer ask what the material is made out of. I have them ask all the time about the benefits of one over the other and I explain to them then what the materials are made of. I don't have to BS anyone because when they say Fury is sk90 dyneema I believe them just as I do when bcy tells me that X is dyneema and vectran and 8190f is sk90 dyneema. So you're right, Sk90 dyneema is just that and both companies use it. It's not that I don't want to know what I'm building with, I very much want to know what it is, I just choose to believe the manufacturer when they tell me what it is instead of always trying to bash a company. Only way some of you are ever gonna believe that Fury is sk90 dyneema is if Bcy buys them out and slaps their label on it. I understand that some of you might have had issues with Brownell in the past but things change and it sounds like for the better so why the constant bashing? Just use what you want, no need to tear down another product just because the company you prefer now has a similar material. I use materials from both companies and I do it with confidence.


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## ex-wolverine (Dec 31, 2004)

sniper10177 said:


> When they do say what it's made of everyone calls them out as liars so what would be the point in trying to make people happy that aren't ever gonna use the product anyway. They have said that Fury is sk90 dyneema and the die hard bcy guys choose not to believe them. I've never had a customer ask what the material is made out of. I have them ask all the time about the benefits of one over the other and I explain to them then what the materials are made of. I don't have to BS anyone because when they say Fury is sk90 dyneema I believe them just as I do when bcy tells me that X is dyneema and vectran and 8190f is sk90 dyneema. So you're right, Sk90 dyneema is just that and both companies use it. It's not that I don't want to know what I'm building with, I very much want to know what it is, I just choose to believe the manufacturer when they tell me what it is instead of always trying to bash a company. Only way some of you are ever gonna believe that Fury is sk90 dyneema is if Bcy buys them out and slaps their label on it. I understand that some of you might have had issues with Brownell in the past but things change and it sounds like for the better so why the constant bashing? Just use what you want, no need to tear down another product just because the company you prefer now has a similar material. I use materials from both companies and I do it with confidence.


No I dont think its that either ...it's more so that folks who use Brownell fury have said that it's far superior than anything else on the market ...better than 452x better than Xcel , better than VTX etc

Then come to find out it's the same stuff as 8190

I never bashed Brownell and I never said fury was junk ...

And I won't of respect for a person that professionally in my opinion was a awesome company representative at Brownell 

But please don't say that it's far superior than anything else when scientifically it can't be ....

Your right pick your poison , builder and enjoy archery


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## Huntinsker (Feb 9, 2012)

ex-wolverine said:


> No I dont think its that either ...it's more so that folks who use Brownell fury have said that it's far superior than anything else on the market ...better than 452x better than Xcel , better than VTX etc
> 
> Then come to find out it's the same stuff as 8190
> 
> ...


When Fury came out, it was superior to what was on the market. 8190f was not on the market yet. And don't say "but but but 8190 already was and it just had gore in it". If it were already as good as Fury then they then they wouldn't have changed it to get rid of the gore. They realized after Fury came out that the smaller diameter allowed for more strands which equaled more stability. Doesn't matter if it's blended or not. That's why BCY dropped the gore, because it didn't do anything to help the string and by getting rid of it, it allows for more strands in the same sized bundle. 

Now BCY has an answer to Fury and they're both awesome. We're lucky as string builders and as archers to have such great options.


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## Earle J's Custom Strings (Nov 26, 2014)

It would seem that even if they were both made from the exact same raw material there could still be differences. For example as Tom said the coatings make a huge difference. also one of the reasons that fury goes so smooth.

However Fury is most definitely spun tighter than 8190F. Just because they are the same material does not mean that they are built the same way. Fury has been The most consistant material from spool to spool that i have used, but i prefer the 8190F, mostly for the colors.

I have had customers ask me the differences in the make up of materials, and why one material could fit certain situations better. Many customers have also asked why i am using 8190f and not fury. I normally just tell them that i fits my build process and i like the colors. But without detailed information on each product its difficult to make an accurate comparison.

As far as results go I believe that Fury speaks for itself, I know that the material is an excellent material, I also know that 8190F is an excellent material with a superior color selection, and lower cost.

Both companies have been a pleasure to deal with and their customer service to me has been outstanding. Both companies are very fast at answering questions and willing to share information. So if you have problems getting information from either company i would suggest not being a !$#@ and try being more open and respectful.


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## jim p (Oct 29, 2003)

ex-wolverine said:


> All 8190 f per Jim p request
> 
> Thanks for the words




Thank you for the beautiful pictures of the 8190f strings. 

Also thank you for describing how the different materials react such as how the strands stick together and spider web.


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## SD40 (Dec 25, 2005)

jim p said:


> thank you for the beautiful pictures of the 8190f strings.
> 
> Also thank you for describing how the different materials react such as how the strands stick together and spider web.


x2!.


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## jim p (Oct 29, 2003)

You mentioned spider webbing of fury. I looked at my cable today and noticed that I had one fiber not a strand but just a fiber that had separated from the cable. The fiber was attached at both ends but about 12" was flapping away from the cable.

That is a very minor thing but I will continue to watch for this. It is probably due to my building techniques. I just hit it with a flame and it was gone.


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## ex-wolverine (Dec 31, 2004)

I was talking about when you separate the bundle when installing a peep or counting strands/bundle is when I have experienced it the most...That's just me, it don't mean its a bad material , just my preference/observation

I a side note , is it a 3 color string? Kind of strange to have a loose strand flapping, it has really nothing to do with the material , more so with twist rate and build process, if its what I'm thinking it is




jim p said:


> You mentioned spider webbing of fury. I looked at my cable today and noticed that I had one fiber not a strand but just a fiber that had separated from the cable. The fiber was attached at both ends but about 12" was flapping away from the cable.
> 
> That is a very minor thing but I will continue to watch for this. It is probably due to my building techniques. I just hit it with a flame and it was gone.


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## jim p (Oct 29, 2003)

The string is a one color string. There was not a strand loose. There was only a single fiber of a strand loose. The fiber was less than the size of a spiderweb. I am guessing that there are 30 to 50 fibers per strand.

The string is fairly new and I have not put any wax on the string. If the string was waxed I probably would not have seen the loose fiber. 

I really don't think that just one loose fiber is ever going to be a problem.


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## Earle J's Custom Strings (Nov 26, 2014)

agreed, /\


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## ex-wolverine (Dec 31, 2004)

Gotcha



jim p said:


> The string is a one color string. There was not a strand loose. There was only a single fiber of a strand loose. The fiber was less than the size of a spiderweb. I am guessing that there are 30 to 50 fibers per strand.
> 
> The string is fairly new and I have not put any wax on the string. If the string was waxed I probably would not have seen the loose fiber.
> 
> I really don't think that just one loose fiber is ever going to be a problem.


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## dwagoner (Sep 27, 2007)

Huntinsker said:


> When Fury came out, it was superior to what was on the market. .


thats purely an opinion...holds no truth or value at all...

and yes 8190 has alwasy been out before fury, its a NEWER material...doesnt matter strand count either...its a pure dyneema material, no vectran blended into

BOTTOM LINE is alot of noobs like Brownell materials because they dont have to be as skilled a string builder to use it..just ask some new builders to build a single cam set out of 452x and see if its possible.....i know some skilled builders cant, thats why they love brownell though...


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## raleigh8605 (Oct 20, 2013)

dwagoner said:


> thats purely an opinion...holds no truth or value at all...
> 
> and yes 8190 has alwasy been out before fury, its a NEWER material...doesnt matter strand count either...its a pure dyneema material, no vectran blended into
> 
> BOTTOM LINE is alot of noobs like Brownell materials because they dont have to be as skilled a string builder to use it..just ask some new builders to build a single cam set out of 452x and see if its possible.....i know some skilled builders cant, thats why they love brownell though...


Dwagoner, I'm a noon and I don't quite understand your rationale that because a string material is easier to work withard and make a perfect string to start with than it less superior than a string material that takes more time and experience to get the same results. Just because 452 is more difficult to work with doesn't make it a better material and we know it isnt any more with newer and better materials like x, 8190f, and fury which many have tested and testimonials have stated time and time again are more stable. 
I would say the ease of working with a material and getting a stable string from the start is a testament to the superiority of the string material, regardless of who makes. It also means less time and money wasted on my end to get the same results out of a string. 
But then again I'm just a noob so I must not know how to make a real bowstring


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## Earle J's Custom Strings (Nov 26, 2014)

raleigh8605 said:


> Dwagoner, I'm a noon and I don't quite understand your rationale that because a string material is easier to work withard and make a perfect string to start with than it less superior than a string material that takes more time and experience to get the same results. Just because 452 is more difficult to work with doesn't make it a better material and we know it isnt any more with newer and better materials like x, 8190f, and fury which many have tested and testimonials have stated time and time again are more stable.
> I would say the ease of working with a material and getting a stable string from the start is a testament to the superiority of the string material, regardless of who makes. It also means less time and money wasted on my end to get the same results out of a string.
> But then again I'm just a noob so I must not know how to make a real bowstring


Although i agree with pretty much everything you just said/ I would hardly say that any material is MORE stable than 452x.


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## ex-wolverine (Dec 31, 2004)

Denis never said that because its more difficult its better, he just stated a reason as to why some folks like unblended products...They are in fact easier to build with...Its really as simple as that...The question is , that no one really wants to answer is why "I'm going out on a limb here" do you think 99% of the pros use a blended material??? Every single shot matters to them, their lively hood depends on it ...I don't care what anyone says, those people shoot more arrows yearly than anyone, their season is all year around, indoors, out doors , FITA, 3D , ASA, the list goes on...Sure a lot of them are sponsored by string companies, but they drive the train, if they wanted an unblended product, their sponsor would happily build it for them...But they don't ask for it, why is that? 

There are 2 main reasons that people on this site don't use 452X, it fuzzes which is inherent in the vectran, the second reason is it fuzzes ...Which is in no way a malfunction or breakdown in the material ...People are easily distracted by shiny objects and like the pretty finished end product of an unblended product

That said , Fury and 8190F work very, very well, use what you like , but I would recommend reading up on vectran, dyneema and their inherent properties and you will see what *earl J *is talking about below

It takes no more time to build a string out of any material, a process is a process is a process...I personally , don't change my formula for any material I use that includes any of the new products out there...

I carry 452X, X and 8190F and 1% of my orders have been 8190F the rest have been 452X and X ....Now if all I carried was one material like some builders obviously the numbers would be different :wink:...

Good luck on your string building its a pretty cool hobby



raleigh8605 said:


> Dwagoner, I'm a noon and I don't quite understand your rationale that because a string material is easier to work withard and make a perfect string to start with than it less superior than a string material that takes more time and experience to get the same results. Just because 452 is more difficult to work with doesn't make it a better material and we know it isnt any more with newer and better materials like x, 8190f, and fury which many have tested and testimonials have stated time and time again are more stable.
> I would say the ease of working with a material and getting a stable string from the start is a testament to the superiority of the string material, regardless of who makes. It also means less time and money wasted on my end to get the same results out of a string.
> But then again I'm just a noob so I must not know how to make a real bowstring





Earle J's Custom Strings said:


> Although i agree with pretty much everything you just said/ I would hardly say that any material is MORE stable than 452x.


Oh Oh you just said a bunch of swear words


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## Earle J's Custom Strings (Nov 26, 2014)

lol,


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## gusty (Nov 9, 2015)

i really like 8190f. i like that you can use more threads to make a string and i think the strings look great. never used fury so i dont see the reason why people are getting so upset about it......


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## Earle J's Custom Strings (Nov 26, 2014)

Both are great materials. 8190F has a few nicer colors. To be honest the build about the same, and perform about the same. Fury does seem to be spun a little tighter (the thread itself) but you really cant go wrong with either material.

The main problem with the two materials is some guys are just fan boys. (i know i will probably be crucified for that). I mean lets be honest, Claim you dont know what its made from, then you are told what its made from and all of the sudden its either a lie or not possibly the same raw material, because they do have slightly different attributes. After all if both of our houses are made from oak planks hen our houses must be exactly identical!!

Then people complain about the price difference, which is only like 2-5 dollars per spool, but if bulk prices are considered then the more expensive of the two in smaller spools clearly becomes the better value in bulk. Don't try to tell anyone this though!

I use mostly BCY products at the time, but not because i dont like Brownell materials, in fac i like some of the Brownell stuff better, but when you already have a current stock then why change. I am also not trying to take anything away from the blended materials that are so popular, as i actually think that they are a better choice over all if the string is going to be subjected to higher temperatures on a regular basis. Trophy is my favorite blended material but all of them are pretty good.


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## jim p (Oct 29, 2003)

I have been shooting fury for about 3 months. I think that I waxed the string maybe 2 times but I have not waxed the cables at all. The string appears to have no fuzz at all but the cables are covered in very tiny fuzz. One application of wax and all the cable fuzz would be gone. I am going to keep shooting without waxing the cables just to see how much fuzz will develop.

I still like the fury.


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## Ray knight (Jan 9, 2012)

ex-wolverine said:


> No that's not it...
> 
> As a manufacture of something (I) want to know what it is...I want to know what I'm selling my customers...*I have people all the time ask me what the material is made of*...Does it have dyneema or vectran in it? Whats in the material that makes 452X better than X or 8190 , or vise versa...I'm not going to say , ahh its good stuff trust me...Just shoot it and have a cup of shut the hell up...Smh
> 
> ...


I'm not even going to get into this Fury vs 8190 BCY vs Brownell festival because really its getting old and the only people that should really care are the owners of BCY and Brownell (we are only consumers here) but i will just add that i have never once had a customer ask me what a material is made of. They ask what materials i have to choose from, i give my options and they pick one and pick a color. Never not even one time have i had a single customer ask what the material is made of, only what i suggest or what would work best for their shooting type (hunting, 3D, field, etc). 

ALL modern string materials are way better than just a few years ago. BCY-X, Fury, Rhino, 8190F….. Pick your builder, pick your colors, tell them what kind of shooting you do and take the builder's advice what will work best for your situation. 8190F or Fury.. Neither is going to be significantly better than the other. Different colors is the biggest difference. Really.


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## ex-wolverine (Dec 31, 2004)

Lol 

Then why did you quote me and post ...smh
Glad to see someone admit that the only real difference is the colors,,,



Ray knight said:


> *I'm not even going to get into this Fury vs 8190 BCY vs Brownell festival *because really its getting old and the only people that should really care are the owners of BCY and Brownell (we are only consumers here) but i will just add that i have never once had a customer ask me what a material is made of. They ask what materials i have to choose from, i give my options and they pick one and pick a color. Never not even one time have i had a single customer ask what the material is made of, only what i suggest or what would work best for their shooting type (hunting, 3D, field, etc).
> 
> ALL modern string materials are way better than just a few years ago. BCY-X, Fury, Rhino, 8190F….. Pick your builder, pick your colors, tell them what kind of shooting you do and take the builder's advice what will work best for your situation. 8190F or Fury.. Neither is going to be significantly better than the other. Different colors is the biggest difference. Really.


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## Ray knight (Jan 9, 2012)

ex-wolverine said:


> Lol
> 
> Then why did you quote me and post ...smh
> Glad to see someone admit that the only real difference is the colors,,,


I quoted your post about people asking you all the time what the string materials are made of. I've never had anyone ask that ever. Thats very unusual that anyone would ask you that once let alone all the time. At most they may request a certain material (452X, X, Fury, whatever) but i cannot fathom having anyone thats not a string builder asking if its SK90, SK70 or Dyneema, etc. 99.9% of archers don't even know what that is. Even most string builders i know don't care what its made of just how well it works. 

None of the newer materials creep, none of them wear out quickly, none of them have any issues. The biggest difference is shot feel, minor speed differences (very minor),noise, finish appearance, consistency of material from spool to spool, wax content and colors. 

So its a waste of time everyone arguing about them. At the end of the day, a good builder is all that matters. A sloppy builder is going to make a sloppy string no matter what its made of. A good builder is going to make a good string with any of the newer BCY or Brownell materials. All customers want is a good string set. personal preference between BCY and Brownell. Most customers don't care either way as long as the end product is awesome. The competition makes both companies create better and better products so in the end we all win. 

Back to work.

(edited spelling sorry)


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## ex-wolverine (Dec 31, 2004)

Ray knight said:


> I quoted your post about people asking you all the time what the string materials are made of. I've never had anyone ask that ever. Thats very unusual that anyone would ask you that once let alone all the time. At most they may request a certain material (452X, X, Fury, whatever) but i cannot fathom having anyone thats not a string builder asking if its SK90, SK70 or Dyneema, etc. 99.9% of archers don't even know what that is. Even most string builders i know don't care what its made of just how well it works.
> 
> None of the newer materials creep, none of them wear out quickly, none of them have any issues. The biggest difference is shot feel, minor speed differences (very minor),noise, finish appearance, consistency of material from spool to spool, wax content and colors.
> 
> ...


Ok let me try and put to you another way so you can understand...

When a customer asks me what's the difference between 452X and lets say Xcel they expect an educated answer...I can give them somewhat of an answer because I know that Xcel has vectran in it and some kind of HMPE...
When a customer asks me what the difference between lets say Fury and 8190/8190F I can tell them exactly what 8190 is about but I have no clue what fury is about based on the product info...When a customer asks me whats the difference , isn't that the same thing as asking me what a material is made of...Do I tell them trust me its good stuff...Just pick you colors and don't worry about it? 

SOOOO, in case that isn't clear enough let me lay it out for you in another way...this is right from the two web sites ...You tell me which one gives us the clearer vision on what the customer is getting or when that "one" customer askes me what the difference is between the materials...
*BROWNELL WEB SITE
*


> *Rhino*
> Ultimate Bowstring Material
> - Unmatched Durability
> - Superior Strength
> ...



Now looking at this you tell me what I'm supposed to tell the customer when they ask me what's the difference between the material's...Looking at this from the outside; it looks to me that its all just* D75* just made into different denier's along the way ??? They all say 100% HMPE except the Xcel????

*Here is a FAQ form Brownells web site
Q. What is HMPE?
A. HMPE (High Modulus PolyEthylene) is a generic name for long polyethylene chain thermoplastics. It is also know as UHMWPE (Ultra High Molecular Weight PolyEthylene) and HPPE (High Performance PolyEthylene). Besides being an excellent material for making high performance bow strings, HMPE is also used for climbing equipment, fishing lines, yachting lines and sails, and for armor applications. It is 8 to to 15 times stronger than steel compared on a strength to weight ratio. Dyneema from DSM and Spectra from Honeywell are registered trade names of this fiber

So based on the above FAQ and Answer , I can take an educated guess that Brownell material its either Dyneema or Spectra, but only Brownell knows that answer???????? 


From BCY WEB Site




8190F Bowstring
Available in solid colors.
•100% SK90 Dyneema
•Smaller Diameter for a smoother string (28/30 strands)
•Recommended strands - 28 (+/-2) for compound bows
•Low creep
•Stability, speed, safety

BCY-X Bowstring
All the benefits and performance of 452X and 8190 combined. Good for Compound Bows and Recurves. Available in solid colors. •No Creep
•Good Arrow Speed
•Low fuzziness
•High abrasion resistance
Recommended strands: 24 (on compound bows)
Approx ft/lb waxed: 9500
Spool sizes: 1 lb, 1/4 lb, 1/8 lb
83% SK90 Dyneema - 17% Vectran - Patented Construction

452X Bowstring
67% SK75 Dyneema®, 33% Vectran. Good arrow speed. 
More strand count flexibility and better looking two color strings. 
No creep; completely stable. Available in 45 colors.
Recommended strands: 20-24 for compound bows
Approx ft/lb waxed: 8800
Spool sizes: 1 lb, 1/4 lb and 1/8 lb 

8125G Bowstring
92% SK75 Dyneema®, 8% GORETM fiber. Highest speed and higher durability; 
preferred by some compound shooters - particularly 3D. 
Also the choice of Olympic style recurve shooters. 
Available in all colors except Camo, Autumn and Flame.
Recommended strands: 18
Approx ft/lb waxed: 8200
Spool sizes: 1 lb, 1/4 lb, 1/8 lb 

DynaFLIGHT 97 Bowstring
The original high strength Dyneema® bowstring - 100% SK 75; very durable, 
low creep. Available in solid colors.
Recommended strands: 14-16
Approx ft/lb waxed: 6700
Spool sizes: 1 lb, 1/4 lb, 1/8 lb 

Trophy Bowstring
452X blended with GORETM Performance Fiber to give increased durability, 
total stability, 
less fraying, less noise, good speed and dampened vibration.
Available in 45 colors.
Recommended strands: 20-24 for compounds
Approx ft/lb waxed: 8000
Spool sizes: 1 lb, 1/4 lb and 1/8 lb 

450 Plus Bowstring
The original Dyneema® / Vectran blend. Limited colors now available.
No creep; expect consistency and no peep rotation. 
A good option for compound cables. Available in solid colors.
Recommended strands: 12
Approx ft/lb waxed: 4500
Spool sizes: 1 lb, 1/4 lb

Click to expand...


So what do you tell your customers Chris? BCY is SK??? you fill in the blanks and Brownell is 100% HMPE that's all you need to know...Well BCY is also HMPE....How do you describe the differences ? So by your statement above; Do you just tell them don't worry about it? 


So now do you get it??? When a customers ask me what's the difference between the two, I, nor you, nor anyone else can honestly answer that question ... So please quit assuming I'm making stuff up because I'm pretty sure you and hundreds of other string builders have been asked the same thing ? What's the difference between the "like" materials ??? Can you honestly tell me that has never or still don't currently happen to you??? ...What do you tell your customers about the difference between 8190F and Fury? Can they go to a label and or web site and read that its SK Whatever or a Spectra product? Can you? According to Brownells own web site its either Dyneema or Spectra , which one is it??? IF we don't know; we cant honestly tell anyone what the difference is physically ...

Just because some of us like to know what we are building with and educate our customers as to what we are sending them or putting on their bows, (when they ask) I'm being called out ??? Give me a Break...smh

Remember it was you and a few others that say Fury was a far better product than anything else on the market to include other previous Brownell products...When asked why? Just cuz it makes a pretty string? Now its SK90 and the main difference is color selection...

Now I will agree with you, it is awesome that the archery world has so many options...Pretty cool*


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## Ray knight (Jan 9, 2012)

ex-wolverine said:


> Ok let me try and put to you another way so you can understand...
> 
> When a customer asks me what's the difference between 452X and lets say Xcel they expect an educated answer...I can give them somewhat of an answer because I know that Xcel has vectran in it and some kind of HMPE...
> When a customer asks me what the difference between lets say Fury and 8190/8190F I can tell them exactly what 8190 is about but I have no clue what fury is about based on the product info...When a customer asks me whats the difference , isn't that the same thing as asking me what a material is made of...Do I tell them trust me its good stuff...Just pick you colors and don't worry about it?
> ...


*

Gods no thats too much information. I tell them this material will have a stiff shot feel, make a little more noise, a little less speed and may be a touch more stable or this material will have a softer and quieter shot feel with a touch more speed and slightly less consistent from shot to shot. I tell them what the actual difference is for them. Thats all. No need to get into molecular makeup with my customers! They only care how it will shoot, how durable it is, how stable it will be, how quiet it is or how much speed it will make. If someone really wanted to know this information they should talk to the manufacturer, not the string builder anyways. I've never used 8190f and see no need to. But i would assume its going to perform very similar to Fury so i would not say its bad or one is better. Lots of great reviews on both.*


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## Ray knight (Jan 9, 2012)

I have had about as many people as i can count on one hand ask if a material is blended or unblended. Thats about it. Or when i give my options they either pick one or ask whats the difference and i explain how the bow will perform with each choice. Thats as far as i've ever needed to go. Any more and they can contact the material manufacturer.


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## Ray knight (Jan 9, 2012)

By the way Tom you are not being "called out". Just curious why aso many of your customers ask for chemical breakdown and i've never had anyone ask anything close to that. But now that you explained that its you educating them what it is then it makes sense. Carry on.


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## flips (Feb 24, 2013)

Who is selling 8190f?


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## ex-wolverine (Dec 31, 2004)

flips said:


> Who is selling 8190f?


Lancaster , Bcy , 60x


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Earle J's Custom Strings (Nov 26, 2014)

ex-wolverine said:


> Lancaster , Bcy , 60x
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I dont think that 60X is carrying it.


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## Anynamewilldo (Jan 3, 2008)

Just a noob here thats been gone about 2 years due to work and shoulder problems and hoping to get back to this and shooting and catch up on archery products Ive missed out on. Want to give a big thanks to ray knight who was kind enough to send me some rhino or fury I don't remember which just to try out and see what I thought of it as a new amateur string builder. Very nice of him and he always answered my questions and I remember some awesome pinstripes from him which made me want to make one. I do think its amusing when everyone was on the 8190 band wagon I believe he was one of the few saying how good fury was at that time while another in this thread said its junk. Apparently its not total junk. Just want to try to keep it simple and get caught up. 452x is stable but but frays because of the vectran, X still stable but maybe little less so with less fraying, 8190 now gone cause gore is useless( not sure why trophy is still good if gore doesnt do anything) replaced with 8190f(or fury) cause it uses more strands and it is not as stable as 452 x but close enough,won't fray as much,(faster?), stronger cause it doesnt have the gore in it that doesnt do anything.

Im trying to keep it simple cause Im a simple guy and wondered for future buying so correct me where Im wrong. I currently have trophy and 8190 that I play with and since it was good for everyone two years ago assuming its fine till I can use the newest and greatest.

I tried to get all that from this thread and bcy web site so Im sure I missed something.


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## Earle J's Custom Strings (Nov 26, 2014)

The Gore fiber in 8190 was pretty much pointless, however the gore fiber in Trophy material most certainly does add to the durability of 452x.


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## biblethumpncop (May 14, 2004)

Jumping on an older thread here, looking for advice on 8190F.

I picked up a 1/4lb spool at Vegas, and I have a couple spools of .021 Halo serving. I shoot an older Hoyt Aspen with Command Cams and fingers. Not a speed bow by any means. I want to build a set of strings with my Dad, and hopefully use the materials I already have. 

I read in this thread that 8190F and Fury strand count should be between 28-32 strands, because they are fine/thin. So, if I wanted to try and use my .021 Halo serving, should I use 28 strands since my serving is on the thicker size? If I had it available, I'd probably use .014 for end servings/yoke ends and .019 for the center servings. With all that said, how many strands should I use, so that it stays in the cam tracks and my g-nock fits? Can I use even less strands if necessary and still be safe without peep rotation?

Thanks!!!


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## biblethumpncop (May 14, 2004)

Called BCY and spoke to Bob. At his suggestion, I'm using 28 strands with .021 Halo center serving, tag ends and .014 Halo end serving.


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