# Getting your marks



## Mitchhunt (Jan 31, 2011)

Archers Mark. Shoot in my 30 and 60 yard marks. System calculates all others. Then I spend hours on the practice range fine tuning those calculated marks. They are typically pretty close and really helps speed up the process. Great app!


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## IGluIt4U (Sep 22, 2004)

Same as Mitch.. shoot in good 30 and 60 marks and go from there with Archer's Mark.. :thumb:


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## GILL (Jan 10, 2008)

Same here, the app is great.


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## scottranderson (Aug 9, 2009)

I like a Iphone app as well Archers Mark. Its the program I have shot my pb's with.
weigh your arrows adjust to +/- .2 of a grain Then shoot a 5 spot nfaa indoor round done outdoor. Get that mark smashing the x play with it go up a few go down a few get it perfact.
Then shot in 40,50,60,70,80. Mark the setup range yourself so you know the distances are within a inch. Then go and test 20 40 50 60 70 80 for a few days in a row. when you feel good about these marks are always going into the middle area of the x on all marks When The shot is executed well dont take to much notice of your poor shots.
Then input the best 5 marks you have from 20 to 80 yards.
This will get you the best Marks you could have. This also makes the setup more forgiving.


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## mag41vance (Mar 13, 2008)

I use the printed ones from LAS, and I shoot fixed pins. I sight in my 20 and then a 60, then find the tape that fits, and adjust the rest of the pins to the marks. Works like a charm.
I also use the LAS ones for my Dark-Side set up.


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## FS560 (May 22, 2002)

scottranderson said:


> I like a Iphone app as well Archers Mark. Its the program I have shot my pb's with.
> weigh your arrows adjust to +/- .2 of a grain Then shoot a 5 spot nfaa indoor round done outdoor. Get that mark smashing the x play with it go up a few go down a few get it perfact.
> Then shot in 40,50,60,70,80. Mark the setup range yourself so you know the distances are within a inch. Then go and test 20 40 50 60 70 80 for a few days in a row. when you feel good about these marks are always going into the middle area of the x on all marks When The shot is executed well dont take to much notice of your poor shots.
> 
> ...


If you are familiar with your sight mark expansion factors, you do not need a computer for this.

Before sight tape programs, I shot in 20 to 80 in 10 yard increments and shot them over and over until I was satisfied. Some will always seem to be better. Then I put them on paper, noting the best ones, estimating the 5 yd values and adjust the values until I was satisfied with the expansions. Then go back and shoot them all to check and make minor adjustments, but I never abrogate the expansions. It always worked great.

Now I am lazy and use AA and the chronograph, since I know EXACTLY how to program AA to fit my bows, peep, sight radius, arrows, my chronograph and me.


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## Inc. (Jul 5, 2013)

Was really hoping for some great VODO here , plus I sold my abacus so sight mark expansion factors are out of the question !


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## ArcherXXX300 (Apr 22, 2013)

Printed tapes from CBE, sight in at 20-30-40-50-60 and make marks on the sight with a pen and a straight edge, look at the tapes and use the junky little tool that calculates which tape you need. I have no software and my friends said that my CBE elite target sights weren't in the programs and my measurements didn't sound right...I have no clue on the programs. I did talk to a couple of Mathews factory staff shooters and asked them about making tapes, they said nope, they draw lines on the blanks.


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## Bullseye Joe (Mar 8, 2012)

I use TAP Pro (The Archery Program). While you can calculate sight marks from bow/arrow info I prefer to shoot in at 20m/60m and adjust measured/calculated arrow speed to match measured arrow drop.


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## hdracer (Aug 8, 2007)

Inc. said:


> Was really hoping for some great VODO here , plus I sold my abacus so sight mark expansion factors are out of the question !


No voodoo...gotta get your hands dirty. What works the best for one may not be the best for another. It would be like trading bows in the middle of a shoot. I use Archer's Mark on my ipod. The marks are good as long as I shoot well. I'm always playing with something on the bow so I constantly need to adjust the program...I also use OT2.


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

As explained in "Proactive Archery", I shoot for marks on a horizontal piece of tape across the target face. Up close, the tape is 1/2" to 3/4" wide max. I will shoot at the horizontal tape until ALL of my good shots are striking the upper half of that tape. This guarantees much better accuracy than shooting for "groups" on a bullseye target. Then, I move to 50 yards and repeat, only with a 3/4" to 1" wide piece of horizontal tape. Then on to 65 yards, with 1" TO 1 1/2" wide horizontal tape. You will note that the width of the tape is less than the width of the x-ring from top to bottom, too! However, if you cannot hold steady on a given width of tape, then make it a tad larger.
The reason for shooting for a mark that is on the top half is that when I tire, I tend to shoot low, so I attempt to "cover this" by siting in slightly high, but not so high as to put me out of the x-ring when I make a good shot.
Also, on OT2, I take advantage of using 5 sight marks entered into the program, too.

You are going to be really surprised at how many clicks "off" you can be from a half-way decent site setting and still hit the X-ring, especially at 20, 25, or 30 yards! Depending upon my bow/arrow combo, there can be as much as 35 "clicks" on the site from the top of the x-ring to the middle of the x-ring at 20 yards! NOT good enough for entry into OT2 or AA, or even the calculator method I've used since the 1980's.

I have used the horizontal tape method since the mid-1980's, and it has been really effective for accurate site marks with really a lot less hassle than one would think. I don't bang up arrows either. Since you are seeking vertical placement of your arrows up and down, I figured why shoot at a circle and call it good when all the arrows are in the "X-ring"? Of course, there is double duty here, too, as in helping me not only get a good site mark, but "creep tuning" too!

Just my thoughts,
field14 (Tom D.)


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## Inc. (Jul 5, 2013)

Tom , 
Thanks , for your never tiring always helpful posts , dedication to the sport and especially for compiling "ProActive Archery ! This was my first season of field shooting and I simply love it . I was able to post very competitive scores and managed to walk away with a win. A big advantage is your book and being able to adapt the mind set..A version of your Flat line tape method is in fact how I achieve my yardages. I keep the line about double the length as the bulls is long for personal reasons .I am Shooting in on the 10s, and plugging the numbers into Archers Mark. I have tried Pinwheel as well with lesser results , need to put more time into the program for sure . I also try to fill in the "holes " with good old pencil and paper. By holes I mean loop holes within lighting and physical and even mental state. I find lighting effects my POI quite a bit at times . this is a tricky one to figure out. I am hoping with enough time and note taking I will be able to recognize the targets that "pull" - any advice on this is appreciated as well ! 
I posted up knowing there is no Voodoo , but also knowing there must be some helpful hints and personal preferences etc ...
I have the hardest time getting my mid range numbers to stick ( 32 - 52 ) I am sure this is the indians blame , and a bit to do with physics of the apex ? 
Keep em coming kids


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

Inc. said:


> Tom ,
> Thanks , for your never tiring always helpful posts , dedication to the sport and especially for compiling "ProActive Archery ! This was my first season of field shooting and I simply love it . I was able to post very competitive scores and managed to walk away with a win. A big advantage is your book and being able to adapt the mind set..A version of your Flat line tape method is in fact how I achieve my yardages. I keep the line about double the length as the bulls is long for personal reasons .I am Shooting in on the 10s, and plugging the numbers into Archers Mark. I have tried Pinwheel as well with lesser results , need to put more time into the program for sure . I also try to fill in the "holes " with good old pencil and paper. By holes I mean loop holes within lighting and physical and even mental state. I find lighting effects my POI quite a bit at times . this is a tricky one to figure out. I am hoping with enough time and note taking I will be able to recognize the targets that "pull" - any advice on this is appreciated as well !
> I posted up knowing there is no Voodoo , but also knowing there must be some helpful hints and personal preferences etc ...
> I have the hardest time getting my mid range numbers to stick ( 32 - 52 ) I am sure this is the indians blame , and a bit to do with physics of the apex ?
> Keep em coming kids


Normally, for me, lighting seems to affect my windage more than my elevation. 
Concerning the 32-52 yard marks. Over the years, if a mark in the range of 25-45 is "off", then I first look at the 20 and 30 yard marks as being the culprit(s). If the "stuff" from 48 yards on out is off, then that tells me that my 65 yarder setting that I've plugged into the calculator, AA and OT2 is the culprit and that is the first place I go to check out things. (Or for OT2, my 50, 65).
You now know why I utilize every possible data entry setting that I can and then run the comparator and look at those OT2 arrow speeds to see how they match up (in OT2). You will be quite surprised on how one or two clicks (tenths) can throw off the sight settings/tape!
I NEVER use the chronograph method, period. Even AA and OT2 tell you that the chronnie speed method is the least desirable. Those can help me get onto the paper, but that is about it.
Now, once I've gotten the reliable sight settings, I do export the speed to the equipment tab (OT2).

Another place to look if your short settings are nuts....the peep height and sight radius. I enter those to the nit-noe, having found out that 1/4" isn't any where near close enough for OT2 or AA to do their thing with. I don't have any experiences with Archer's Mark.

What is uncanny is how close the 1980's "calculator method" comes when it is compared to OT2 and AA!!! BUT....those 20 and 65 yard mark settings must be dead on to get this so close! That is why I adapted over to the horizontal tape method of sighting in.

I have yet to have to mess around with putting in correction factors into OT2; I simply follow instructions, don't use chronograph speeds, get my arrow weight down to the 0.1 grain (I know I cannot hold that well anyways, hahaha), and use all 5 marks that OT2 allows. I don't get "fancy" with OT2, since I'm not THAT good. I am extremely careful on measurements and data entry, however. Garbage in = garbage out." haha

Tom D.


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## Inc. (Jul 5, 2013)

"What is uncanny is how close the 1980's "calculator method" comes when it is compared to OT2 and AA!!! BUT....those 20 and 65 yard mark settings must be dead on to get this so close! That is why I adapted over to the horizontal tape method of sighting in. "

Maths dont change


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

Inc. said:


> "What is uncanny is how close the 1980's "calculator method" comes when it is compared to OT2 and AA!!! BUT....those 20 and 65 yard mark settings must be dead on to get this so close! That is why I adapted over to the horizontal tape method of sighting in. "
> 
> Maths dont change


That is so correct...but - - if you 'round off' your numbers for the sight settings, you are not going to have good numbers, even tho the "math" works properly. Garbage in = garbage out.


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## scottranderson (Aug 9, 2009)

First I will say I am a field archer NFAA/IFAA trying to get into the 550's so I am looking for Perfect marks the time and work getting those marks does not worry me.
I have a marked range out to 100yards that I have marked every 5 yards +/- 1 inch.
I own archers mark iphone app, Ontarget2, Archers Advantage, The Archery program 
I will rank how I find them for the use of sight marks and sight marks only
Archers Mark 5 inputs and it users the value that you put in. Its the only one that does this. Thats why I like it the best
Number 2 is on target 2 It users 5 marks and gets a ave velocity Then users 2 of the marks to make a chart The middle figers in the range are not the best as the arrows drag can change 
So in setup page there is fletch offset witch changes the coefficient of the arrow making it a very very good sight mark.
AA is just 2 sight marks then dumps out a chart and it not the best marks from 20 to 80 about 50 yards it could be off by about 1.00mm But it is a very easy to use program and most archers it may be the best choice from how user freindy it is.
Tap is like AA with sight marks just 2 distances but I find tap does the best cut charts.


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## TNMAN (Oct 6, 2009)

I still shoot mine in.


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

I get a good 40 and something in the 60-80 range...and match up a pre printed tape or make one. 

Then adjust my peep height...then adjust my needle to match things up. 

There is no voo doo or magic to it...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## schmel_me (Dec 17, 2003)

I use TAP program and use number chart for my sight scale. Works great for me just make sure all your measurements are correct.


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## SteveID (May 6, 2008)

20 and 100 and I've never had to do anything different. 100 has to be solid. Check it at a couple distances and you're good.


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## Inc. (Jul 5, 2013)

Brown Hornet said:


> I get a good 40 and something in the 60-80 range...and match up a pre printed tape or make one.
> 
> Then adjust my peep height...then adjust my needle to match things up.
> 
> ...


You adjust your physical peep height ? Or Virtual ?
Are you shooting open freestyle ? I dont like tapes personally with a freestyle set up ? Just that many more things I can mess up with mt 10 thumbs !


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## sweet old bill (Apr 21, 2003)

I still do it the old way as I am 71, I shoot them in. I find that I can shoot in a 20 yards and work to the next yardage and find out how many cliks as example I use a tox nail driver sight, a 4 x scope, a 30 inch front stabilizer, 10 inch back stabilizer, 3/16 peep, D-loop and kisser. Also a release. MY 20 yrads show 31 on the scale and my 25 is 33, so I just keep adding 2 cliks as I move back till I find one that requires 3 cliks etc. I am no way close to being a good top shooter but over the years is what has worked for me. I do like what flied 14 said of the tape and as I get out over 50 yards I have used that way to find if I have to fine tune my rest.


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## Inc. (Jul 5, 2013)

sweet old bill said:


> I still do it the old way as I am 71, I shoot them in. I find that I can shoot in a 20 yards and work to the next yardage and find out how many cliks as example I use a tox nail driver sight, a 4 x scope, a 30 inch front stabilizer, 10 inch back stabilizer, 3/16 peep, D-loop and kisser. Also a release. MY 20 yrads show 31 on the scale and my 25 is 33, so I just keep adding 2 cliks as I move back till I find one that requires 3 cliks etc. I am no way close to being a good top shooter but over the years is what has worked for me. I do like what flied 14 said of the tape and as I get out over 50 yards I have used that way to find if I have to fine tune my rest.


Sounds interesting , but I cant rap my head around ... please explain - is your next mark at 36 on the sight ( 33+3= 36 ) ? then 40 (36+4 = 40) ,and so on ? then plug the yardage ?


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## archerpap (Apr 24, 2006)

AA and AAPalm....don't use or trust anything else. Made a arrow change earlier this year. Got them built and finished on a Wednesday, got a 30/60 mark on Thursday in Palm, shot a few distances to check marks(didn't even compare or print out marks from AA), shot 14/14 on Saturday, and walked off with a 559(made a bad shot on a 50 uphill that I let down on the same arrow). Been using it for years, had OT2, and have AM(on iPhone and iPod), but don't use them, and deleted OT2. AAPalm is no longer available and is only supported by XP or older operating systems. Had to buy a cheap laptop with XP just for AAPalm. I don't leave home without it!!


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

Inc. said:


> You adjust your physical peep height ? Or Virtual ?
> Are you shooting open freestyle ? I dont like tapes personally with a freestyle set up ? Just that many more things I can mess up with mt 10 thumbs !


I adjust my actual peep height....not sure what you mean by virtual :noidea: 

I shoot FS always....my hunting setup is even a FS setup :chortle: Not sure what you don't like about tapes....its just as easy to screw up your sight marks using methods other then a tape.....or easier.


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## Inc. (Jul 5, 2013)

Brown Hornet said:


> I adjust my actual peep height....not sure what you mean by virtual :noidea:
> 
> I shoot FS always....my hunting setup is even a FS setup :chortle: Not sure what you don't like about tapes....its just as easy to screw up your sight marks using methods other then a tape.....or easier.


Virtual , meaning play with the programs peep height - 
Too many thing to go wrong with tapes for me , just getting the buggers in place is pita , thats me .


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

No playing with my peep being in the program isn't going to change my tape. 

Moving it on the string will get it dialed in to be where I want it or need it. Then I will need to adjust my needle to make my tape be correct. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Inc. (Jul 5, 2013)

Brown Hornet said:


> No playing with my peep being in the program isn't going to change my tape.
> 
> Moving it on the string will get it dialed in to be where I want it or need it. Then I will need to adjust my needle to make my tape be correct.
> 
> ...


No but changing the peep height in the program will change your marks with in the program , before you print your tape.
Kind of tickling the program , instead of tickling your actual sight . Same as changing arrow weight 
Thats what I was getting too ... thanks for the time


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## bigHUN (Feb 5, 2006)

Shooting several distances between 30-90 yards and using a horizontal tape edge as an exact number, 
this is a good practice to check my creep tune as well 
I will spend 5 hours getting my sight marks accurate and the tape will be printed in a minute with OT2


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## Praeger (Jan 7, 2011)

One last tip for OT2 users. 

After you've printed your tape, but before you glue it on your sight - take a dial caliper gauge that measures in decimal increments (an inexpensive one will do) and measure between your 20 and 50 yard marks. Compare that distance to the "20 to 50" distance on the Make Marks tab. Your printer may make the tape slightly shorter or longer. If there is a difference, uncheck the "20 to ?? tape adjustment" box, enter your measured distance, then click the "=" button. OT2 will make the adjustment to lengthen or shorten the tape to adjust for any printer error.


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## Inc. (Jul 5, 2013)

bigHUN said:


> Shooting several distances between 30-90 yards and using a horizontal tape edge as an exact number,
> this is a good practice to check my creep tune as well
> I will spend 5 hours getting my sight marks accurate and the tape will be printed in a minute with OT2


How do you creep tune with this method ?


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## bigHUN (Feb 5, 2006)

Inc. said:


> How do you creep tune with this method ?


mostly I creep tune @ 50 meters shooting a horizontal tape....the tune is half a turn more or less on the cables (I have 4 cables on my bow ) and shows a lot difference at this distance


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## bigHUN (Feb 5, 2006)

Praeger said:


> One last tip for OT2 users.
> 
> After you've printed your tape, but before you glue it on your sight - take a dial caliper gauge that measures in decimal increments (an inexpensive one will do) and measure between your 20 and 50 yard marks. Compare that distance to the "20 to 50" distance on the Make Marks tab. Your printer may make the tape slightly shorter or longer. If there is a difference, uncheck the "20 to ?? tape adjustment" box, enter your measured distance, then click the "=" button. OT2 will make the adjustment to lengthen or shorten the tape to adjust for any printer error.
> 
> View attachment 1749623


:thumbs_up:thumbs_up 

Im spending hours and hours to get the most accurate 20-xxx marks (and eventually couple distances in between to cross check) 
and with this shortcut printing sight tape in a minute....


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## rock monkey (Dec 28, 2002)

i mathmagic mine when i first get started.

since almost everywhere has a 20yd indoor range, get that mark and go from there


i shoot my 20 and then 25 yard marks. my numerical gap on my scale may be a difference of 2.5 between 20 and 25. my 30yds should be 5 more than my 20yds. 40yds would be 10 more than my 20yds.

it gets a little trickier after 55yds because of bleed off. to get me close, i use a 10yd change of 6.

these are just a way to guess my way close and shoot them all in to make sure.

knowing your equipment and how each little change affects the sight at distance is a tremendous help when you have to make a mid-round compensation.


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## hdracer (Aug 8, 2007)

rock monkey said:


> i mathmagic mine when i first get started.
> 
> since almost everywhere has a 20yd indoor range, get that mark and go from there
> 
> ...


Are you using the same peep location from Indoor to Outdoor? I can't do that. My peep at 20 for indoors is way too high for shooting distances outdoors. So I need to shoot 20 yds outdoors after reseting my peep. I understand the incremental adjustments...mine are pretty close to the same as yours.


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

Inc. said:


> No but changing the peep height in the program will change your marks with in the program , before you print your tape.
> Kind of tickling the program , instead of tickling your actual sight . Same as changing arrow weight
> Thats what I was getting too ... thanks for the time


I get all of that...

Your over thinking what I am doing and talking about. I know that changing my peep in the program changes things. 

That's not what I am moving my peep for. My tape is fine....marks are good...perfect. Forget the tape...

My peep height may not be perfect fit wise...for me at full draw. It's right. But it could use a bump up or down to give me the feel I want at certain distances....so I move it and keep moving it till I am seeing what I want. 

Now I move my needle to get my marks back in line....the gaps in distance is still correct. You just need to adjust your needle. Why would I want or need to make the 1-3mm peep adjustment in the computer to print me the same tape again and put it back on...and probably still have to move the needle again anyway. :wink:





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## rock monkey (Dec 28, 2002)

hdracer said:


> Are you using the same peep location from Indoor to Outdoor? I can't do that. My peep at 20 for indoors is way too high for shooting distances outdoors. So I need to shoot 20 yds outdoors after reseting my peep. I understand the incremental adjustments...mine are pretty close to the same as yours.




no, i generally set my peep to be comfortable at 50yds for outdoor season. my favorite distance to shoot at outside is 55yds. in the indoor season, i bring it back to a 20yd normal feel.


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## xring1 (May 28, 2008)

a 30yd and a 70yd on aa works for me!


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## Praeger (Jan 7, 2011)

rock monkey said:


> i mathmagic mine when i first get started.
> 
> since almost everywhere has a 20yd indoor range, get that mark and go from there
> 
> ...


You obviously know your kit, so this close up distance for marks works for you. But I would discourage anyone new or having problems getting sight marks to shoot from any closer than 30 yards. At 20 yards, my 270 fps bow can go up or down 15-20 clicks and still be hitting a 1" dot. If you take your time and get good clean shots past 30 yards, your tape will be more accurate.


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## rock monkey (Dec 28, 2002)

Praeger said:


> You obviously know your kit, so this close up distance for marks works for you. But I would discourage anyone new or having problems getting sight marks to shoot from any closer than 30 yards. At 20 yards, my 270 fps bow can go up or down 15-20 clicks and still be hitting a 1" dot. If you take your time and get good clean shots past 30 yards, your tape will be more accurate.


as FS560 mentioned above, it's a quick way to guess a rough setting and then shoot them in for accuracy. i write all my numbers down and make a second copy as a backup.

yeah, i use AA but i use it more for spine selection than anything else. it does come in REALLY handy for arrows that have the easter egg hunt spine charts like Carbon Impact.

i have used it for generating marks, but i can figure my spreads just as fast and be within 5 clicks when i get into a pinch. could i have something a little askew when i make my measurements for AA? good chance. but if i shoot em in and write em down, i know they're right. besides, shooting em in is just practice and it's still all about flingin sticks.


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## bullsi (Jan 18, 2006)

marked


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