# Leaving my Old Dinosaur Bow Behind and getting back into Archery



## Rantz (May 17, 2012)

So I was into shooting archery in High School and even did a skit as robin hood in the school talent show (where I got second place lol). Then I went 6 years without shooting at all and now I am getting back into it. I upgraded to a Mission Rally and am really feeling difference!

I am interested in Target Shooting and maybe some 3d. Today for example, I got my bowstring put back on from where I derailed it the other day being sloppy. Luckily that was the only damage and it didn't take long to get it all sighted back in. At 20 yds, I am shooting primarily bullseyes with anywhere from a third to half of them being Xs. I have been refining my grip now that I have a modern bow that requires a proper grip (hence my derailing incident). When I got home from the indoor range, I took some time sighting it in for 40 yards and making my mark since I have a sliding sight. About a 1/4 of my shots were bullseyes while the rest were all over the place (but still on the foam target). Shooting with wind is hard when it even blows your bow around when you're trying to sight in.

My current interests are on making my grip automatic (where i don't have to think about it). The sore bruise on my forearm has been a motivator to avoid poor form (I am making progress as of today). I am also curious what an elongated weighted stabilizer can do for my steadiness now that controlling the cant of the bow is tougher with such a loose grip. Of course I would like to get as precise as to be able to use a really nice sight like a sure loc, but I am working my up to it perhaps. Would it be weird to have an upgraded sight and longer stabilizers on a $500 Mission Rally? I'm now a high school math teacher and I am hoping that I'll be able to apply some of it once I work my way up towards a more precise sight rather than my one pin sliding sight.

-Rantz


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## Tim Roberts (Jul 13, 2002)

Rantz.


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## Dthbyhoyt (Dec 4, 2004)




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## rycountryboy (Feb 21, 2008)

*:welcome: to AT*


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## Rantz (May 17, 2012)

I recently bought a used sure loc supreme 400 from a user here and a brand new 1 3/8" viper scope with a 3x lens and an up pin. I have been tweaking settings on my bow recently and it is a hassle to have to make a new sight tape every single time with my current hha optimizer 3019 sliding sight. Last saturday I went to my first 3d shoot and got a good start. I was with a friendly father and son that I recognized from my usual shop and they were sharing their range finder. I was having a really good time and was pleased with my shooting (granted with having the yardages known with the range finder).


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## Destroyer (Sep 11, 2009)

Howdy! :welcome:


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## Rantz (May 17, 2012)

Today got my sure loc and sighted it in and my new to me 30" doinker put on. I really see how the extension bar and scope can increase my accuracy. I am still figuring out how to set up my stabs to suit me best. I have an offset bracket coming in for the rear 15" fatty. I don't yet have any weights to experiment with. I'll be getting a rear peep enclosure that'll take different inserts and a clarifier (if I ever need one) since I need a smaller rear peep than my current 1/8th.
That's my update. I'm currently shooting a 294 (indoor 300 nfaa 5 spot) with my regular setup. Next week when I tweak a few things, I'll look into scoring myself again even though my rear peep is too big.


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## brownstonebear (Apr 10, 2006)

Keep up the good shooting, sounds like your off to a good start my friend. Welcome to AT.


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## Rantz (May 17, 2012)

*Upgraded my bow!*

So today I bought a barely used Mathews Triumph for a great deal and transferred my sight and stabilizers to it. It shoots amazing compared to my Rally. It's a bit bling for my taste, but at least it's in the right color! I spent some time getting myself dialed in and ensuring the centershot was where it should be. I finished the night on a good end with 4 x's and one just outside of it (on a 5 spot indoor 20 yds and no stabilizer). I am currently shooting without my doinker fatty bars on because I don't have my side mount yet for the side rod and I hold a LOT more steady with a tiny or no stabilizer than I do with the 30" doinker out in the front without really any weight on it. I need to experiment to find out how to optimally set up my stabs. Thanks to help here on AT, I'll be experimenting with fender washers in the meantime.

So now I'm looking to sell my 1 month old Mission Rally. I'll be posting a thread for it shortly.


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## Bloom12 (Jun 20, 2012)

well 

Thanks for your post.


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## Rantz (May 17, 2012)

Link to my for sale thread for my Mission Rally: http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1780903



Bloom12 said:


> well
> 
> Thanks for your post.


I'm sort of using this thread as my log to keep track of anything that is worth sharing and certain dates of things that I want to keep up with. That way a beginner can know that it is possible to do well with the right mindset. I don't expect people to read it, but thanks for doing so!


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## Rantz (May 17, 2012)

Personal Best today in a 300 indoor 20 yd nfaa 5 spot round: 298-38x! Those two arrows that snuck out of the white were due to fatigue. The first escapee was in the 3rd end and the last escapee was in the final end. After the 3rd end, I slowed down a lot and saw an increase in my x average (also conveyed in my personal best x count). My overall rig weight is still weighing down on my bow arm and causing fatigue and I think the letoff is not as much on this bow (giving it a more solid back wall) as it was on my rally. It has the 27.5" 65% let off cam. It took me approximately 65 minutes total to shoot the entire 12 ends and that was with some small breaks throughout. I wonder if this is too slow. I think you get something like 2 minutes per end. I know I had at least a couple that went over that. I expect for my endurance to catch up in the coming week or so since I've been shooting practically everyday. 

Also, I took some time to sight myself in today outside at 20, 30, 40, & 50 yds (60 yds was too sporadic and wouldn't group, but the others grouped great). Now I'm going to look into making a sight tape.

As of now, I am running no weights and just a rubber stopper (from home depot) on the front doinker 30" fatty and a skosh over 5 oz. on the side 15" doinker fatty. Honestly, the fender washers don't look all that bad to me.


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## NCstick (Aug 14, 2011)

It sounds like you have really been hard at work!! Nice shooting and keep it up!!!


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I am here: http://tapatalk.com/map.php?z4qsjb


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## Rantz (May 17, 2012)

Hey Thanks! I'm thinking about going to a 3d event tomorrow. My goal is to finish it this time without any equipment issues. Since I'm shooting great (in my opinion) with my new bow, I'm expecting to do okay as long as I can maintain a decent sight tape setup and get help with judging the distances (preferably with a range finder lol).



NCstick said:


> It sounds like you have really been hard at work!! Nice shooting and keep it up!!!
> 
> 
> ---
> I am here: http://tapatalk.com/map.php?z4qsjb


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## NCstick (Aug 14, 2011)

Rantz said:


> Hey Thanks! I'm thinking about going to a 3d event tomorrow. My goal is to finish it this time without any equipment issues. Since I'm shooting great (in my opinion) with my new bow, I'm expecting to do okay as long as I can maintain a decent sight tape setup and get help with judging the distances (preferably with a range finder lol).


Good luck and just a warning. It's very addictive!!


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I am here: http://tapatalk.com/map.php?q0eifh


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## Rantz (May 17, 2012)

3d Event took place in the middle of tropical depression weather and, of course, got rained out.
Since then I have been working on my release technique with a Tru Ball BT Gold 4 finger hinge release in red. I also picked up some indoor arrows: Gold Tip Pro Series 22's.
I am going to learn how to fletch my own arrows as my original arrows have some damaged fletchings and these used GT 22's aren't all uniform. I ordered some blazer vanes and a bitzenburger fletching jig.

Now that I am using a more trusted back tension release technique. I am having to re-evaluate how I'm doing a lot of things. My scores are currently between 270-280. I have switched to a vegas face instead of the 5 spot because I feel like it is more honest rather than just trying to stay in the white with the 5 spot. I still shoot both to remain comfortable. My current best vegas face is a 278. I also have the option to shoot more than one round of vegas in a day whereas the 60 arrow round of 5 spot leaves you pretty tired and time used up. I had to make the switch to a hinge because I was getting "too good" at punching with my trigger release. I was heading towards target panic'ville. I had a few pop-ups where I anticipated and jerked shots. In order to help myself long term, I am working on my back tension release technique now before I dig my hole too deep.

I went about a week with nothing but blank bale when I first switched to a hinge (have NOT punched myself by the way lol). Now I am working on my follow through/holding pressure technique. Out of my choices, the static/passive bow arm with just a pulling release arm pressure is my preference. I like to just pull and have my bow arm not explode to the left at all, but rather stay still and confirm good follow through. I have been reading Larry Wise's book Core Archery as well.

Still going strong and loving it. Now I just need to work on holding my pin steadier so that I can trust my shot more. It'll be a combination of just practice and with tweaking with my stabilizers as I still don't have any weight up front.


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## Rantz (May 17, 2012)

*2 month Update on Improvements with my release technique + some successes*

Okay so I'm about to hit the 2 month mark where I bought the rally when I got serious about archery.

*Update on using a hinge:*
My scores took a lower dip when I was trying to figure out the nuances of my preferred variation of back tension. Originally, I was essentially dumping the release by loosening my index while tightening my pinky (the other fingers in between following along) aka just purposefully rotating the release while holding it tight against my face almost vertical. Then I went to a method of keeping my release fingers rigid (especially index finger) while pulling with my shoulder blade. This technique was hard to set off sometimes and then I started angling my pinky end of the release outward some which made it easier. Still though, it didn't always want to go off when I was fatigued. I then let my bow shoulder blade get in on the fun and dabbled with the explosive follow through method. It was ridiculous to try to control for consistency. I even tried setting it really hot so that it didn't take much to set it off, but that led to a lot of "premature shootilations" as I called them since they went flying into the 8 or 7 ring. I have now evolved my way into static relaxed bow arm with the tension in my release shoulder blade. I have also flipped the moon around again and am using the clicker which I draw to and immediately set on (zero issues of anticipation since it is just my reference point for starting). I now have been working on a zen balance between my index finger (almost imperceptible change) and shoulder blade working together at the exact moment of release (to ensure no nock travel before the moment of release), but before that I am making an effort to hold all of the tension in my release side shoulder blade and relaxing my arm as much as I can.

The two things that I have noticed that affect my consistency (as of now) are the following: Bow hand grip sometimes gets tight and induces some torque or I am not settled hard into some of my anchor points (such as not touching the string to my nose or pressing into my jaw bone enough). I still am only letting down maybe half of the time that I have the thought about whether I should (working on this).

*Update on Equipment:*
I was fortunate enough to be able to borrow some ACE's for the 900 event and have been also using them for my indoor shooting since. I used my GT expedition hunters which I recently refletched myself! I used my new Bitzenburger jig with flex fletch 187 vanes with just a slight left offset. They came out very clean and I am proud of them even though they took me forever! As of now, I prefer the Gold Tip Expedition hunters over the pro series 22's. The Expeditions are more spined correctly for me and are much more forgiving. Whereas, the 22's (which are crazy stiff I think like .300 or something) were either on or OFF (then again this was also during the period of struggling to find a better release variation). I'll get them refletched and check them out. Who knows, maybe they'll officially be my new indoor and 3d arrow. Although I am pretty stoked with how well i shoot with the ACE's (maybe it's in my head, but hey most things are). I am holding on target the best I ever have. I still have zero ounces up front but just the rubber stopper from home depot and a skosh over 3 ounces on the side/rear bar. I am still using the sight extension bar on the shortest detent. I wonder what the pros and cons are of sticking it out further. Seems it'll be more precise like a rifle's sights versus a pistol's. It also seems that it'll shorten the maximum distance that my sight can shoot. I have the supreme 400 model so I have a bit less travel than a 550 has, but it hasn't been an issue since it'll currently go way past 90 yds. Perhaps if my current habit of holding steady continues, I'll consider sticking out the sight some. I wonder if moving it further away will make my 3x lens more powerful and/or blurry? Experiment I shall.

*Update on Participating in archery events:*
I shot my first 900 round this past Saturday and my first full 3d round on Sunday (more than just 3 targets this time lol). In the 900 round, I shot an 819. Unfortunately, I started off with the wrong sight setting in the final round part (40 yds). It took me a few shots to realize just how off my sight marks were. I had started around an 18.something and should have been at a 28.something! With that said, I am still pleased with the experience. The 900 round really has boosted my confidence since I was able to have the target come closer and closer making it seem more and more attainable. It was the first time I was able to confidently shoot longer distances on quality targets that encourage confidence due to their size. Since then, my 20 yd indoor shooting has definitely seen an increase. I have shot a couple perfect 150's (high x count as well) on the 5 spot (only 30 arrows instead of the full 60). I am eager to go for that elusive 300 score on the 5 spot when I get time for it this week. My vegas score has increased from 278 up to a 290 which was after I got back in town the day of the 900 round.

Yesterday I enjoyed my first full 2 rounds of 3d with the Gasparilla Bowmen. I was 7 behind par the first round and 4 better (should have been 8 better! darn footing for the sheep at the end :angry than par my 2nd round giving me a total of 397. I shot recreational class because I was unsure of anything about 3d. They put me with a great group who was happy to shoot from the white stakes with me and helped me a lot. We all mooched off of one of the group member's range finder- which I admit is something that I relied heavily on since my estimations were sometimes off by up to 7-8 yds. When I compared my score with the actual competing known 45 class, I would have gotten 3rd. It's okay since I know what I'll be entering in next time. I just need to either shoot with an honest group or get my own rangefinder. I also need to get some decent binoculars so that I can scope out the target myself and figure out where all of those darn bonus rings are.


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## Lux (Jul 16, 2012)

Thank so much for this thread! I'm kind of on my own trying to learn so this is very useful to me.


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## heartshot60 (Jul 25, 2009)

:welcomesign: to Archery Talk!


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## Rantz (May 17, 2012)

Lux said:


> Thank so much for this thread! I'm kind of on my own trying to learn so this is very useful to me.


I'm glad it has helped somebody else! I PM'ed you with some extra helpful information that I looked at in order to help you get started.

Good luck and welcome to the forum. Remember to have fun and be safe (have a proper backstop and target etc especially if you're shooting near anything else of value) with your surroundings.

If you have any questions, shoot me (or most other members don't mind either) a PM (not with an arrow please) and I'll try to help you when I can or I'll try to lead you in the right direction if I can't


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## Rantz (May 17, 2012)

*4 Month'ish Update on my Archery Experience- Still Loving it by the way*

Okay so I'm about to hit the 4 1/2 month mark from when I got serious about archery.

*Update on my release technique using a hinge:*
I am now very happy with my release technique. I have been having a lot of success with the quality and consistence of it. My scores are higher than they ever were when I was punching with the trigger release. Every now and then when I deviate from my process (whether it be by a stray thought or lack of intention), I will have a shot that goes off before I'm completed settled in and have finished my shot sequence. I still draw and set to the clicker and then begin my release sequence of tightening the release shoulder blade. I am pretty sure that my stance has narrowed a lot (I'm probably very close to a power triangle rather than the trapezoidal usual compound stance some people go with). I stand as perfectly squared to the target as I can (based on the line my toes make going to the target face). I am still utilizing a static/passive bow arm and have as much of the hold/tension in my shoulders (mostly release shoulder) as possible. With some tips, I now point my draw elbow upwards more than I used to (when it was practically pointing downwards) and it has allowed me to load up the shoulder blade tension sooner and taking the stress off of my draw arm.

The two things that still affect my consistency (as of now) the most are the following: Bow hand grip sometimes gets tight and induces some torque or I am not settled hard into some of my anchor points (such as not touching the string to my nose "hard" enough or pressing into my jaw bone enough). I am a TON better at letting down whenever I feel like the shot is "off" in some way- as long as I know that I have plenty of time remaining in the end.

*Update on Equipment:*
I bought a dozen of used ACC's 3-39 440 spined arrows from a friend and a dozen Fatboy 400 spined arrows. I haven't used the Fatboys yet, but have shot the ACCs a lot. I have switched to a spring steel blade micro adjust rest. Apparently I had it incorrectly set up for at least a month and a half where my arrow was paper tearing pretty nock low left. I also have never had my sight completely leveled until recently. I, of course, have those things corrected, but it was after they really counted at the State FITA tournament a few weekends ago. Those two things definitely would help explain why my sight windage setting was drastically different from 90m down to 30m. Well the Shooter of the Year FITA is this weekend and it'll be my chance to see if correcting those things (as well as my increased skill and technique) will yield a benefit. I shot a 1237 including two major mistakes: I shot a 9 while aiming at another target-mate's target (instead of my own) and of course scored a zero for that shot, & 2) for one of the distances, I forgot to convert my sight setting to meters. I set my sight for 70 yards and not the 77.5 yards or whatever. So that got in my head when they were all of a sudden not going where they were supposed to (since I immediately doubted myself and not something silly like a sight setting not being on meters instead of yards). So I expect to break 1300 this weekend as long as I can generate some decent sight marks (since I haven't had a chance to find any real world ones since I corrected these flaws).
I am still using the 3x lens with a green up pin. I now have a 6x lens to experiment with and I will put it on after this FITA this weekend (too last minute to try and convert to it now).
I am still holding on target the best I ever have. I still have zero ounces up front but just the rubber stopper from home depot and a skosh over 3 ounces on the side/rear bar. I am using the sight extension bar on the second to shortest detent.
Other than adding general archery supplies/tools, I now have: an Alpen spotting scope for $170 from Amazon after seeing it reviewed here on AT (with a pistol grip tripod $100), Some used Binoculars that I bought here off of AT (used for any general optic needs perhaps while shooting 3d), and a range finder. I haven't shot any 3d since my last update, but the spotting scope makes a HUGE difference when shooting long distances and being able to get instant feedback as to where my arrow went. The scope and range finder make it easier to set up a target and practicing myself. My suburban development is slowly filling up with houses and I'm getting less and less room to shoot with lol. I need to build a target from third hand archery. My foam block target that I got from Dicks a while back isn't really cutting it much. My ACCs go in sometimes past the fletchings now. I want to be able to put something up against the wall without fear that my arrows will go through it and damage themselves on the wall.
*
Update on Participating in archery events and just scores:*
I already mentioned the FITA shoot from September 8th-9th. I have only shot indoors at 20 yards other than that. I have set new personal bests for both vegas rules and for the 5 spot 60 arrow round. Vegas rules: My current best is a 296 15x (Equates to a 285 NAA rules where only the x counts as a 10). 5spot personal best: 299 40x. It's somewhat comical that it's the mental aspect of staying focused and consistent and not taking any shot for granted that is currently preventing me from getting that sought after 300.


As of now, I make an effort to shoot about 3 times per week. One evening during the week (usually Thursdays), then Friday evenings, and then all day Saturday. I need to space it out more and get more practice, even if it is just blank bailing (30 shots a day) in my garage- which brings me back to the point of needing to put together a decent target lol.


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## Rantz (May 17, 2012)

*10 Month Update- Finally shot my first 300!*

Back in December, I made the switch to a used 2010 vantage elite with 2012 limbs. It took me a while to get used to the feel of the spiral cams (they can be really unforgiving of weak shots), but now my shot process is stronger and more consistent than it ever was. I also switched to a Stan Black pearl 4 finger hinge. I find it to be more ergonomic and smooth functioning than my bt gold 4 finger release.

Most importantly, I finally shot my first 300 today on the 5spot (with skinny X10's). It was a 38x with 28 inside outs. I've shot enough 298's and 299's and it was about time lol.









My current best on the vegas face (which I feel is a more discriminating precise determination of accuracy), is a 296 15x (late january). My best NAA score (inner 10) is a 286 (from indoor nationals back in February).
I am very proud of my progress and am glad that I didn't give up on trying to shoot strong shots with the spiral cams. 

*Let's see what happens during 2013. My goal* is to break the 1300 fita mark as well (my current best is a 1248 from back in October). To help in that, I just switched to some "new to me" X10's. I also would like to break the 870 mark in a 900 round (I should be in the 860's at least this weekend). Indoors: my goal on the vegas face is to shoot a 300 (outer 10 ring) and a 300 45x on the 5 spot face. I know I'm ambitious, but it feels really good to beat my personal bests and set new levels of goals that help keep me working to the next level. I'm always happy- especially if I can beat my average . Eventually I'll have to start my average over so that it doesn't reflect my earlier scores from when I was first starting out lol.


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