# Virginians for Hound Hunting Reform



## BigBirdVA (Nov 5, 2002)

New web site is up. Forum for comments and some tips and a easy contact page to send letters to your state reps. 

Too bad this wasn't up sooner.

http://www.vhhr.org


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## Hokieman (Dec 21, 2007)

Rick Hutson aka BigBird formed this website. He is 100% anti-dog and will do whatever it takes to ban hound hunting. here is some keywords used to pull up this webpage that he has coded in.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bigg~BirddVA 

Seems others are voicing their views on this as well. 

New site and forum is up. Go to the send a letter page and you can find and send one to your state reps. 

http://www.vhhr.org 

Virginians for Hound Hunting Reform 


You can tell your a anti- dog person by the keywords used to pull this site up. you must be desperate and grabbing at straws. 

"keywords" content="bow hunting, deer, dog, hound, VDGIF, hunting, VAHDA, VDHA, VHHR,deer hunting, animal abuse, hunting with hounds


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

Hokieman said:


> Rick Hutson aka BigBird formed this website. He is 100% anti-dog and will do whatever it takes to ban hound hunting. here is some keywords used to pull up this webpage that he has coded in.
> 
> quote:
> 
> ...



I think Rick knows WHO HE IS


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## BigBirdVA (Nov 5, 2002)

So HM let me know when you find the real owner. If it was me I would have your name in there there somewhere. I don't have to do as much anymore someone else is doing their part. In fact I think several are doing it. :zip:

I wish I could do a site like that. It looks pretty good. Now if they can just keep the doggers from stinking it up. 



> Registrant Name: Registration Private
> Registrant Organization: Domains by Proxy, Inc.
> Registrant Street1: DomainsByProxy.com
> Registrant Street2: 15111 N. Hayden Rd., Ste 160, PMB 353
> ...


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## Hokieman (Dec 21, 2007)

BigBirdVA said:


> So HM let me know when you find the real owner. If it was me I would have your name in there there somewhere. I don't have to do as much anymore someone else is doing their part. In fact I think several are doing it. :zip:
> 
> I wish I could do a site like that. It looks pretty good. Now if they can just keep the doggers from stinking it up.


Rick I know this company owns the main site but not all the bulletin boards they can be created individually.


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## BigBirdVA (Nov 5, 2002)

Hokieman said:


> Rick I know this company owns the main site but not all the bulletin boards they can be created individually.


Wow ! You're more in the dark than I thought. I'm not even sure I can help you. No wonder you need a dog to hunt.


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## Moon (Jul 16, 2006)

*Hm*

You need help. Consider this: BB is one of many that are fed up with your BS and your deer chasing clans. You'd be better off trying to pee up a rope than trying to get anyone to take you seriously on this site. Try speed dawg Anti Hunting site. You know the old saying............birds of a feather


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## 3sheets (Dec 29, 2007)

BigBirdVA said:


> If it was me I would have your name in there there somewhere.


No that's downright funny right there, I don't care who ya are. :lol3:

Seems Derick is having one of his typical weeks. First he gets busted for lifting someone else's works and then he makes false accusations about ownership of a message forum. One's gotta wonder what else he has in store for us the rest of the week.


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## Hokieman (Dec 21, 2007)

Moonkryket said:


> You need help. Consider this: BB is one of many that are fed up with your BS and your deer chasing clans. You'd be better off trying to pee up a rope than trying to get anyone to take you seriously on this site. Try speed dawg Anti Hunting site. You know the old saying............birds of a feather


You don't have a clue and that is the real shame. Stick with Rick and he'll show yah how to end hunting in VA.


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## Hokieman (Dec 21, 2007)

3sheets said:


> No that's downright funny right there, I don't care who ya are. :lol3:
> 
> Seems Derick is having one of his typical weeks. First he gets busted for lifting someone else's works and then he makes false accusations about ownership of a message forum. One's gotta wonder what else he has in store for us the rest of the week.


It really doesn't matter who owns or operates the website. See you boys in the GA thats were it counts.vb :wink:


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## Moon (Jul 16, 2006)

*Yeah I've got a clue*

about you and your deer chasing brethren and I don't need anyone to tag along behind to help kick your azzes out of real hunting seasons if you don't see the light and act responsibly. And from all the crap you've spewed out here I'm sure you'll be one of the ones that are standing around asking "what happened" when dog chasers are shut down. We'll see who has a clue.............and it "ain't" you. 

BTW, hunting won't be ended in Virginia, far from it...........................just deer chasing with dogs. You'll be able to take up ping pong then as you obviously have no clue how to really hunt for deer. Also, that crap you doggie folks are trying to use now about ending hunting, that certainly seems like another feeble scare tactic to talk real hunters and private property owners into "let's all band together against anti-hunters". Ironic that deer chasers are more and more viewed as Anti-hunting but you don't get it. Go back to speeddawg and get some more of your sill azzed chasing talking points that don't work here.


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

Hokieman said:


> You don't have a clue and that is the real shame. Stick with Rick and he'll show yah how to end hunting in VA.



Right hunting is going to end in Va because we don't need dogs to run deer....how in the world do we do it.

Guess you haven't noticed that the highest deer kill counties are NON DOG COUNTIES :doh: and they have been for god knows how long.:doh:


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## Moon (Jul 16, 2006)

*Cox hit the nail on the head.*

I'm 65 years old, grew up on a 250 acre farm in NC. We had a couple hounds that would run anything, deer, rabbits, tree squirrels, tree racoons at night and keep folks away from the house when we were gone. They ate scraps off the table and were not pened. They were only used on our property on Saturdays when we weren't quail hunting. Occasionally they'd get through our standers but not often. There were no posted signs in a 20 mile radius of our property. I never saw a "deer dog" other than ours on our property. They would always come back home by themselves. Now, compare that tradition with what is CALLED a tradition today. What we have now is a 15 to 20 year tradition of insanity, nuisance and lawbreakers and in no way remotely resembles the real deer dog tradition. 

I actually know a couple guys that chase deer responsibly and try to keep their dogs off private property and they are the ones that will be getting the shaft because of the hoards of those that couldn't give a rat's azz what they do illegally or on who's land they do it on. I think the deer dog owners that abide by the law and take others privacy into consideration are so far outnumbered that they are helpless in correcting what's wrong. Time will tell...........and it's running out


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## BigBirdVA (Nov 5, 2002)

Brown Hornet said:


> Right hunting is going to end in Va because we don't need dogs to run deer....how in the world do we do it.
> 
> Guess you haven't noticed that the highest deer kill counties are NON DOG COUNTIES :doh: and they have been for god knows how long.:doh:


I spent some time finding the square miles of each county in VA. Then I took the dog and no-dog areas and added them all up to get 2 totals. Took the deer kill numbers for the year and got a deer per sq mile kill number. The doggers kill 1 deer more per square mile than the no dogs. But gun season for the doggers is 6 weeks and gun for no dogs is 2 weeks. Doing the math on that and the no dogs counties kick their butts into the dirt. No dogs are about 25% more effective based on time in the woods. 


Same for kill permits. The dog counties get almost 2 to 1 more kill permits. If they're so effective and necessary why don't the numbers show it? I think we all really know why.

All this just goes to show if you tell a lie long enough people will start believing it. 

All the numbers for this are readily available with a little work. Surprised no one had done it before.


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## ButchA (Mar 6, 2006)

Wow, that's great, BigBird! I never thought of that... Good work! :darkbeer:

I talk to guys all out west beyond the Blue Ridge to get their opinions on various issues. You should hear what they say about deer doggers!!! :mg:


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## BigBirdVA (Nov 5, 2002)

ButchA said:


> Wow, that's great, BigBird! I never thought of that... Good work! :darkbeer:
> 
> I talk to guys all out west beyond the Blue Ridge to get their opinions on various issues. You should hear what they say about deer doggers!!! :mg:


Tell them to send their thoughts in to the survey.


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## 60Xbulldog60X (Mar 12, 2005)

BigBirdVA said:


> Tell them to send their thoughts in to the survey.


I don't understand why they would be saying anything about deer doggers, dogs are not allowed for deer west of the Blueridge. 

All I can say about this thread is that the Anti-hunters must be sitting back licking there chops if they are reading this stuff. The Anti's are not going to have to do anything to get rid of hunting in Virginia. All they have to do is let us destroy ourselves. If we don't all start working together, the Anti's are going to run with whatever they have to try and stop hunting all together. This thread is a prime candidate for something they can run with.

We all need to put our personal gains to the side and protect hunting as a whole. If you don't think that we can loose our rights, just search other states. It has already been done.

Take care,

Kendall Woody


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

60Xbulldog60X said:


> I don't understand why they would be saying anything about deer doggers, dogs are not allowed for deer west of the Blueridge.
> 
> All I can say about this thread is that the Anti-hunters must be sitting back licking there chops if they are reading this stuff. The Anti's are not going to have to do anything to get rid of hunting in Virginia. All they have to do is let us destroy ourselves. If we don't all start working together, the Anti's are going to run with whatever they have to try and stop hunting all together. This thread is a prime candidate for something they can run with.
> 
> ...


Couldn't disagree more.....:darkbeer:


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## BigBirdVA (Nov 5, 2002)

Brown Hornet said:


> Couldn't disagree more.....:darkbeer:


Ditto! 

He forgot the infamous "it's our tradition" line.


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## 60Xbulldog60X (Mar 12, 2005)

Joke if you like, I expected that kind of comment from both of you. It can and will happen if we don't all learn to get along.


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

60Xbulldog60X said:


> Joke if you like, I expected that kind of comment from both of you. It can and will happen if we don't all learn to get along.


Kendall.....I wasn't joking. But I don't agree with what you said. Nothing more nothing less.

We aren't going to loose hunting in Va because a vast majority of deer hunters in the state don't like running dogs for deer and it's still allowed in some places. 

I have hunted with dogs and with out growing up....and I can choice which side of the fence I wish to stand on. :darkbeer: 

I get along with all....and everyone has their right to coice their opinion....and mine is that I don't feel there should be dogs being run on deer in our state.


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## BigBirdVA (Nov 5, 2002)

60Xbulldog60X said:


> Joke if you like, I expected that kind of comment from both of you. It can and will happen if we don't all learn to get along.


Where the heck was this "can't we all just get along" attitude all previous years? I know it wasn't even considered. When asked why do you train illegally during bow the reply was this is a dog club and that's what we do - tough. When you were hunting and they dropped off dogs and they came running through while standers stood the edge effectively hunting others lands where was the concern then? 

The only concern is your rear end is on the chopping block so now we hear buzz words like, compromise, tradition, and support from all hunters. Truth be told if the survey disappeared tomorrow they would be back doing and saying exactly what they did in the past. There is no such thing as compromise with the dogger, only laws and forced compliance. Other states were forced to do it and it will happen here exactly like it did there if a fix is to occur. 

The guy that started this process got a restraining order against the local club. What did they do? Violated it. Even when presented with forced compliance they refuse to comply until it's do or die. He said even after the second court appearance where the judge sentenced the club prez to 30 days suspended with good behavior they violated it. He said he couldn't prove it enough to get back in court again but they went right on as they did in the past. Spare me the "that club isn't typical and most are good clubs that don't do that" line. 


It's too little, too late.


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## 60Xbulldog60X (Mar 12, 2005)

BigBirdVA said:


> Where the heck was this "can't we all just get along" attitude all previous years? I know it wasn't even considered. When asked why do you train illegally during bow the reply was this is a dog club and that's what we do - tough. When you were hunting and they dropped off dogs and they came running through while standers stood the edge effectively hunting others lands where was the concern then?
> 
> The only concern is your rear end is on the chopping block so now we hear buzz words like, compromise, tradition, and support from all hunters. Truth be told if the survey disappeared tomorrow they would be back doing and saying exactly what they did in the past. There is no such thing as compromise with the dogger, only laws and forced compliance. Other states were forced to do it and it will happen here exactly like it did there if a fix is to occur.
> 
> ...


I'm not in this to argue whether it's wright or wrong and my rear end is not o the chopping block because I hunt deer without dog's. I have hunted deer with dogs a few times over the past 35 years and did enjoy it. I don't prefer it, but I have enjoyed it from time to time. 

My only concern here is that this may be something that the anti's can use against all of hunting in general.

Take care,

Kendall


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

60Xbulldog60X said:


> I'm not in this to argue whether it's wright or wrong and my rear end is not o the chopping block because I hunt deer without dog's. I have hunted deer with dogs a few times over the past 35 years and did enjoy it. I don't prefer it, but I have enjoyed it from time to time.
> 
> My only concern here is that this may be something that the anti's can use against all of hunting in general.
> 
> ...


I hear your point....but I would worry about a lot more stuff then us not agreeing on dogs vs no dogs.:wink:


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## kraven (Jan 25, 2006)

I'll agree that we all need to stick together. But, the notion that I should bow to the lowest denominator in hunting is faulty. The people bringing up the rear of the hunting ethics and morality train should work a little harder to making hunting a more noble sport than it currently is. Let them make their way to where the still hunters and such are. Then, we'll all be proud of each other and won't have any problem standing tall together.

We don't need numbers. We need quality. And, quality won't come from letting the lowest common denominator into the party and including anything and everything.


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## Hokieman (Dec 21, 2007)

Your kidding right " the lowest denominator " I have seen hunters of all types being unethical and hunt illegaly. I've had my familys farm hunted without their permission and spotlighted on a nightly basis. I have found arrows in their feilds were no hunting is allowed. Your type my type aren't perfect as soon as you realize that your on your way to being the common denominator.
We all are sportsman the lowest and the ethical ones. everyone needs to stand together against the anti's


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## kraven (Jan 25, 2006)

Hokieman said:


> Your kidding right " the lowest denominator " I have seen hunters of all types being unethical and hunt illegaly. I've had my familys farm hunted without their permission and spotlighted on a nightly basis. I have found arrows in their feilds were no hunting is allowed. Your type my type aren't perfect as soon as you realize that your on your way to being the common denominator.
> We all are sportsman the lowest and the ethical ones. everyone needs to stand together against the anti's



Actually, no I'm not kidding. What I say doesn't apply to only dog hunters. It applies to everyone hunter as a whole. We're all in the basket being carried along by the general public. We hunt at their pleasure, not the inverse. Nowhere in the constitution does it say you have a right to pursue game. 
If things continue the way they are going, the public will vote hunting out and put down that basket in which we all (rifle, bow, crossbow, musket, trappers, doggers, etc) are being carried together. 
To make hunting palatable to modern culture, I think we have to turn it into a more noble pursuit, rather than stooping to include the drunken oafs who shoot into the brush, spotlight, run dogs across private property without permission, and use other illegal/unlawful methods. We have to ostracize these people and show that there is a difference between we the ethical hunting community, and them the "anything goes" community. 
Hunting needs a makeover if it is to survive. We may have to give things like dogs up to yield to an increasing population density.
I'm willing to do that.
So, rest assured, I am not kidding when I use the term "lowest denominator," rather than towing the party line of "we all have to stick together no matter what the other guy does." Including the other guys has helped perpetuate the rather ugly, but not altogether untrue stereotype of an ignorant hick shooting wildly and disregarding the other people in the wilderness areas/communities. I'd like as much room between me and those guys as possible when the public considers what I and my ilk do as they close the curtain to vote or speak to their elected officials at a function.


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## rick64 (Feb 27, 2006)

kraven said:


> I'll agree that we all need to stick together. But, the notion that I should bow to the lowest denominator in hunting is faulty. The people bringing up the rear of the hunting ethics and morality train should work a little harder to making hunting a more noble sport than it currently is. Let them make their way to where the still hunters and such are. Then, we'll all be proud of each other and won't have any problem standing tall together.
> 
> We don't need numbers. We need quality. And, quality won't come from letting the lowest common denominator into the party and including anything and everything.


That a great post, I know I don't want to be associated with a unethical or law breaking hunters. You could apply reasoning to many things other than hunting. Your only as strong as your weakest link.


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## BigBirdVA (Nov 5, 2002)

We also need to stick together when it's one of our own that threatens the rest of us. Funny the offending party is using that for a defense. I'm still surprised the rest of the hound sports groups haven't pointed the finger rather than go down with the ship. Too bad they don't see what's ahead. :zip:


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## Hokieman (Dec 21, 2007)

rick64 said:


> That a great post, I know I don't want to be associated with a unethical or law breaking hunters. You could apply reasoning to many things other than hunting. Your only as strong as your weakest link.


You are associated with those types of people when a avg person sees a hunter they automatically think of road hunters, spot lighters, red necks with guns etc or whatever the sterotype is in their area.


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## Hokieman (Dec 21, 2007)

BigBirdVA said:


> We also need to stick together when it's one of our own that threatens the rest of us. Funny the offending party is using that for a defense. I'm still surprised the rest of the hound sports groups haven't pointed the finger rather than go down with the ship. Too bad they don't see what's ahead. :zip:


You don't know whats ahead either as nothing is written in stone.:wink:


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

Hokieman said:


> You are associated with those types of people when a avg person sees a hunter they automatically think of road hunters, spot lighters, red necks with guns etc or whatever the sterotype is in their area.


Actually MOST don't.....

at least that is not how the vast majority of people view bowhunters.....I talk to a TON of people in the DC area and have for years. Their views towards "deer hunters" is different from that of bird hunters and bowhunters.:wink:

Even within the hunting community (non deer hunters) view the orange army different from the rest of the hunting world.


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## BigBirdVA (Nov 5, 2002)

Hokieman said:


> You don't know whats ahead either as nothing is written in stone.:wink:


That's what the other states thought too. :wink:


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## Hokieman (Dec 21, 2007)

Rick any post you make on the topic is soley your opinion of what the outcome will be and not the final say, sorry pal, you don't know and neither do i..ukey:


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## BigBirdVA (Nov 5, 2002)

Hokieman said:


> Rick any post you make on the topic is soley your opinion of what the outcome will be and not the final say, sorry pal, you don't know and neither do i..ukey:


Well they didn't initiate this study to:
A. Do nothing.
B. Give you guys an award.

Still I commend you for keeping a positive attitude in the face of all but certain change.


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## 60xWannabe (Jul 14, 2008)

Brown Hornet said:


> Kendall.....I wasn't joking. But I don't agree with what you said. Nothing more nothing less.
> 
> We aren't going to loose hunting in Va because a vast majority of deer hunters in the state don't like running dogs for deer and it's still allowed in some places.
> 
> ...


Have to disagree for several reasons. I hunted down below Tappahannock for about 15 yrs. Strictly with hounds, mostly Walkers. We leased approx. 5000 acres, as did most clubs around us, seldom any conflict. In the early 80's the woods were beautiful, oaks, beechnut, intermixed with pine & holly. Went down there this past Christmas Holiday to hear the dogs run, could hardly recognize the place. Chesapeake Timber had stripped just about every hardwood there is. Nothing but pine barrens, most so thick you'd have trouble getting through it. Good luck killing enough deer down there now without dogs. I can see where there would be conflict as you get up towards Northern Neck, as the acreage of the clubs shrinks. Where there is vast amounts of timberland, I think it's an acceptable method of hunting. Where the land is intermixed with private, public, I can see where there would be conflict. I guess it depends on the area! (By the way, BH, I'm new here, used to hang at AAA back in the early to mid 90's, GREAT bunch of people down there)


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## Moon (Jul 16, 2006)

*More BS I see*

Originally Posted by Hokieman 
*Your kidding right " the lowest denominator " I have seen hunters of all types being unethical and hunt illegaly. I've had my familys farm hunted without their permission and spotlighted on a nightly basis. I have found arrows in their feilds were no hunting is allowed. Your type my type aren't perfect as soon as you realize that your on your way to being the common denominator.
We all are sportsman the lowest and the ethical ones. everyone needs to stand together against the anti's *

We are standing together against some anti's........................you and your deer chasing law breaking buddies.

I've owned land in PG County for years and to date the ONLY trespassing on my property was from the deer chasing clans. You know, some of those clowns also go in the woods with a bow and muzzle loader and their total lack of respect for others' property and the law for chasing deer carries over
to their other activities. H man, you are as full of it as a Christmas goose.


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## Hokieman (Dec 21, 2007)

Moonpie your also full of it and ignorant of game rules and regulations and virginia statues concerning RTR and property rights vs recreational use. no wonder so many complain.


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## coxva (Sep 21, 2007)

Hokieman said:


> Moonpie your also full of it and ignorant of game rules and regulations and virginia statues concerning RTR and property rights vs recreational use. no wonder so many complain.


We all understand the rules and the limits of them that have allowed dog chasers to run wild. So many complain because they are tired of having their rights trampled on by inconsiderate and uncaring individuals. Unfortunately they all seem to congregate to chasing deer with hounds. They enjoy tracking and the sound of the "chase" from the truck on the side of the road and shooting anything that comes out. The same people that have no consideration for anyone or anything else but themselves. Unfortunately someone told them it was a tradition and a right to do such things. I have a right to complain about anything that infringes on my rights on my property. If only in the woods on our own property we wouldn't have to deal with those that don't care or want to understand they are in the wrong. A code of ethics or self policing will never fix that.


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## Virginia Archer (Mar 18, 2007)

I Like the VHHR site.....Nice!! Ya'll Know where I stand.....And I know where I stand...so theres no need to argue! I was told 2 years ago that Dogs were gonna be on the outs in the next 3 to 5 years. The CPO was Exactly Right on schedule. I'll be Glad when its finalized and we can all get back to hunting without haveing the same mutts run by my stand every year!!:wink:


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## coxva (Sep 21, 2007)

I'll be Glad when its finalized and we can all get back to hunting without haveing the same mutts run by my stand every year!!:wink:[/QUOTE said:


> Those are different mutts most of them do not survive past one hunting season.


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## BigBirdVA (Nov 5, 2002)

I like today's post where Hatchet man compares the dog hunting tradition to the slavery tradition and their reluctance to compromise brought the end for them. Check these words of wisdom out. You have to love the last line. He's seen the light! Too funny. King of "don't give a damn I'm illegally training my deer hounds in bow season" preaching for change and the "E" word - ethics! I think he took a SAC to the head! 


BTW Derrick and Hachet man don't love each other any more. :set1_punch: Neither does Bob Kane.



> Derick- you have to understand. That is the same attitude the slave masters took in the 1850's. How'd that turn out? You know I am not willing to surrender RTR at any cost. But to say that we cannot compromise? You mean that if guys are pushing their hounds across anothers property without permission, nothing should change? If a guy chases the hounds in his truck and bales out in the middle of a hard surface road with his gun in hand- nothing should change? If guys enter posted property through locked gates w/ the vehicle to retrieve hounds-then nothing should change? If a group threatens a landowner - than nothing should change? That is the compromise I am talikng about. We have to clean this up. Don't blame it on the lack CPO's. This is all about ethical behavior. Which many are lacking!! Unless elimination of any of these practices would impede your hunting style, why would you oppose this? This is where the issues are. This is a large number of the complaints I read everyday. We both know it goes on and WE have to stop it.


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## coxva (Sep 21, 2007)

*I went to VDGIF meeting last night*

I saw only one private land owner and myself wanting any real change. I sat through 2 hours of ?? hours, but my group was the rich folks that Fox hunt in the Middleburg, Warrenton, and The Plains region that turned out in droves at Fauquier High school. There was no mention of dogs running deer or the problems associated with the practice other than my written comment. These folks seemed to be well organized and well funded individuals wanting no change in their heritage and unfortunately I have to agree they seem to have ethics and support of land owners. I personally have had no Fox, ****, Rabbit, Bird, or Bear hunting hounds ruin my hunts or trespassed on my private property. I made sure to state that in my write up, but I do feel that these hunters seem like the opposite of the folks I deal with in Caroline County. Well educated and cooperative with the land owners. They had numerous land owners and public figures speaking on their behalf. I will hand it to the fox hunters they filled up the auditorium. I plan to film and document the crap that goes on during this season and keep the local police and animal control informed. I am sure the deer folks are coming out in droves also. The one side of this I feel is really not being consided is the private land owners that do not hunt. How would they know about these meetings or survey. They would have no reason to visit the VDGIF website for the information. I know there are many tired of the hounds running on their land and the open right to trespass.


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## Moon (Jul 16, 2006)

*Yep!*

*"The one side of this I feel is really not being considered is the private land owners that do not hunt".*

Good point. Forming a land owners' organization that will fight having their property over run year round by dogs and their owners would be a good start. It will take some work but that's the way to make some real changes. Attending high school auditorium meetings that are over run by deer chasers won't cut it. The fight has to be at a higher level than that and I believe it will be.


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## BigBirdVA (Nov 5, 2002)

Moonkryket said:


> *"The one side of this I feel is really not being considered is the private land owners that do not hunt".*
> 
> Good point. Forming a land owners' organization that will fight having their property over run year round by dogs and their owners would be a good start. It will take some work but that's the way to make some real changes. Attending high school auditorium meetings that are over run by deer chasers won't cut it. The fight has to be at a higher level than that and I believe it will be.


It's all being considered. Regardless of how many doggers caravan all over to make a showing at their misplaced last chance effort it doesn't change the facts. They are the minority of the hunters in VA and they won't be dominating the seasons and lands too much longer. 
They think because they were the majority at meetings that's supposed to say it all. They must have forgot they were the majority on SAC and the VT people didn't have any problems overruling them in the Technical Report. Sending in letters it the same as attending the meetings. The meetings were nothing more than a feel good exercise. VDGIF didn't even send anyone that's how little they mattered. Besides it's all set and going where it's going anyway.


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## MTNHunt (Oct 27, 2007)

Virginia Archer said:


> I Like the VHHR site.....Nice!! Ya'll Know where I stand.....And I know where I stand...so theres no need to argue! I was told 2 years ago that Dogs were gonna be on the outs in the next 3 to 5 years. The CPO was Exactly Right on schedule. I'll be Glad when its finalized and we can all get back to hunting without haveing the same mutts run by my stand every year!!:wink:


Yeah right on schedule Your connections have seriously mislead you. Didn't you keep up with the study, I think it just strenghten the dog clubs to unite and proved how large and in charge they are in Virginia. Dogs are going nowhere, not now and not in your lifetime.

Internet hunters against dog hunting in Virginia are a joke.ukey:


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## Moon (Jul 16, 2006)

*Mtn*

*"If you're not working to protect hunting, then you are working to end it"...FRED BEAR*

I knew Fred Bear and I assure you he was talking about H U N T I N G

Not chasing deer with dogs

If you think otherwise you are severely mistaken.


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## MTNHunt (Oct 27, 2007)

Moonkryket said:


> *"If you're not working to protect hunting, then you are working to end it"...FRED BEAR*
> 
> I knew Fred Bear and I assure you he was talking about H U N T I N G
> 
> ...


Go play with someone else old man....I don't have time or the attitude to play with your narrow mindness. 

I will be hunting with the dogs at the club this year just like I new I would. What study?


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## BigBirdVA (Nov 5, 2002)

MTNHunt said:


> Go play with someone else old man....I don't have time or the attitude to play with your narrow mindness.
> 
> I will be hunting with the dogs at the club this year just like I new I would. What study?


Typical dog chaser mentality. It's not this year you need to worry about it's the immediate future. But that's ok don't worry run along after your hounds now. :wink:


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## Hokieman (Dec 21, 2007)

Rick your being a smart*****. This isn't over by a longshot.


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## MTNHunt (Oct 27, 2007)

BigBirdVA said:


> Typical dog chaser mentality. It's not this year you need to worry about it's the immediate future. But that's ok don't worry run along after your hounds now. :wink:


Blah, Blah, BigbiirdVA you are not intouch with the real people who will make the difference, I have sparked up conversation about this with hunters from both sides at local hunting shops (Bow included) throughout Virginia. What about the normal bowhunter that has to join a dog club to even have land to hunt on, because they can't find any in the state, other than private land leased to clubs. I travel alot, and like to ask people about this in person. Everyone states that it is a heated discussion, but in the end, none wants to see the END to it. (like you and your small following on AT) And, you can spin around backwards and say you don't either, but that is your agenda. TO END A WAY OF HUNTING, BASH A TRADITION. You website is bias and I have looked at it and laughed. Your membership grows to what .01 per day. You and your small, small, following of elistist landowners which are a very small percentage that have made numerious comments about breaking the law and trapping dogs, your local problem with a very small percentage of bad hound hunters is a local problem. I don't believe YOU or the others want it corrected so you can keep coming back to AT and whinning about it. They can be caught and prosecuted with the laws that are already are on the books.

But, I forgot you are on a crusade with some of your other chronies to bash dog hunting, even if they are lawabiding hunters. The stakes are higher for us (dog hunters) and you are the few. 

And lastly with the economy in the state that it is in, the Virginia governor already looking to cut 5, 10, or 15% of agences budget, unfortuantely, he is a democrat (like the Wilder days, rember the VGIF cuts), I seen the Game deptament getting the shaft. But thats another story and it will affect futher studies I am sure. 

Every war has a loser and your it, sorry to let you know. :wink:


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## BigBirdVA (Nov 5, 2002)

MTNHunt said:


> Blah, Blah, BigbiirdVA you are not intouch with the real people who will make the difference, I have sparked up conversation about this with hunters from both sides at local hunting shops (Bow included) throughout Virginia. What about the normal bowhunter that has to join a dog club to even have land to hunt on, because they can't find any in the state, other than private land leased to clubs. I travel alot, and like to ask people about this in person. Everyone states that it is a heated discussion, but in the end, none wants to see the END to it. (like you and your small following on AT) And, you can spin around backwards and say you don't either, but that is your agenda. TO END A WAY OF HUNTING, BASH A TRADITION. You website is bias and I have looked at it and laughed. Your membership grows to what .01 per day. You and your small, small, following of elistist landowners which are a very small percentage that have made numerious comments about breaking the law and trapping dogs, your local problem with a very small percentage of bad hound hunters is a local problem. I don't believe YOU or the others want it corrected so you can keep coming back to AT and whinning about it. They can be caught and prosecuted with the laws that are already are on the books.
> 
> But, I forgot you are on a crusade with some of your other chronies to bash dog hunting, even if they are lawabiding hunters. The stakes are higher for us (dog hunters) and you are the few.
> 
> ...


This should soften you up for what's ahead in '09. Look in the mirror for the loser. 

Funny VDGIF in the public comment period says different. Here's a couple of lines that might let you in on what's ahead. I'm sure you'll blow them off as nothing. Like it or not by next year it should start to sink in.



> 3. The number of complaints received is small and does not justify the expense and effort of the project.
> 
> Collectively, the results of the project overall seem to indicate that problems are very real and may be pervasive.





> 4. All you have to do is enforce the existing laws.
> 
> Several laws, or lack of laws, make it possible for hound-hunters to engage in activities that lead to conflicts with other citizens or that are viewed by the public as objectionable: (The RTR and the fox hound loophole are named.)
> Increasing enforcement will do little to directly address these conflicts.


I don't care if someone dog hunts, as long as it doesn't spill over to another's lands. That's my biggest issue with them. And the RTR needs to go. Both issues have been fixed in other dog hunting states. And it's mostly a deer hound hunter issue. You like to make a lot of general comments about how I feel on this and they're not correct. I think before this is over you'll see exactly how many there are that have issues with the dog hunters. :wink:


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## Hokieman (Dec 21, 2007)

Rick- Before all this is over, I think you'll see how many is in favor of hunting with dogs. I don't for see anything changing any time soon. but that is just my opinion.


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## BigBirdVA (Nov 5, 2002)

At this point it's all speculation. 

Interesting to see how the latest lawsuit on Oct 8 will end up. 

Read the mini summary lines of each numbered topic in the Public Comment FAQ. That's a hint on where it's going. First the technical report introduced the main issues and this FAQ goes a little more into it. Even SAC admits there is a problem with the RTR by their last minute change and vote. Reading between the lines you should be able to see where it's all going to end up. 2009 a bill to change will pass and that's the beginning of change. It's not the end, just change. You'll still be able to hear your hounds run.


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

I absolutely do not believe that hound hunting should be illegal. I do believe that is the ultimate goal of too many of the "reformers".

You guys that enjoy hounds legitimately should call the law when you see anything that may appear to reflect poorly on hunting with hounds. Be aggressive and squash the small number of jerks using dogs for deer hunting. For example, get the people and parked trucks off roads and out of driveways. Call the law on fellow club members that smirk and trespass under the guise of retrieving dogs. Put yourself in the place of the passer-by and small parcel home owner. If your club gets a reputation of "doing right" it'll pay off quickly with the landowners in your area.


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