# How Fast Do You Have Your Hinge Set?



## montigre (Oct 13, 2008)

Keep the setting where it is. You're holding it in your hand differently at tournaments because of nerves/tension. Learn to shoot the same shot in competition that you shoot in practice and you will not have any problems with the release hanging up.


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## bgviii (Feb 16, 2010)

How do I get my mind off of the release going off once that starts..This weekend I must have set down 20 times trying to find my rhythm where I just aim and it goes like practice. It's really annoying because it's hard to regain that feel once my mind goes back to the hand rather than the X


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## Thepeopleshamer (Mar 1, 2009)

I have my hing extremely hot. It goes off like clockwork normally. It only hangs up when my mind doesent like something that is going on. So what iam saying is even if you set it very hot that does not mean that will fix it hanging up if your subconscious doesent like what it is seeing. Also I have read your hands are too smart to use to set off your release. So set your hinge to where your pulling motion alone will set the release off.


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## Sasquech (Dec 15, 2014)

I set it a little on the hot side but key is grip has to be identical each and every draw. Not a 32nd different and you will get the same result. I found this to be one of my weak points as well drill it home with a string bow 2 or 3 thousand shots ought to make it muscle memory


Staff shooter Dream Shot Archery makers of Twisted Minds bowstrings. 
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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

I personally think that your hand that holds the hinge is directly tied to your nerves, when you are nervous or when you have any anxiety the hand tenses up just a little and this changes your hinge speed. The key to remember is that tension in the hand slows things down and lack of tension in your fingers so that they can stretch out speeds up the hinge. So if you have it really fast and you are scared of it firing your hand will contract and slow things down. 

The key here is to learn how to set up the hinge with a soft hand, the soft hand that is stretched out will insure that you have your hand in the fastest grip of the hinge setting. This is important because then you don't have to be scared of your hinge firing because you relaxed the hand because you set up the hinge when the hand was stretched out completely in the fastest setting possible. This allows you to set up the hinge to a nice setting that isn't overly fast or slow and it very nice to shoot with and when shooting in competition or by your self you just draw the bow with a soft hand that is nice a stretched and you always know where you are at and then can execute the same shot over and over without different grips on the hinge that are causing issues.


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## RCR_III (Mar 19, 2011)

See, I have the opposite opinion. I think you should leave the movement and slack in the hand. If you take all the movement out, then you can't move anymore and the hinge has to be set on the ragged edge of going off. And that will make people apprehensive of it going off at the wrong time. 

I like to leave some movement available in my hand and have the release set to trip from there at the optimal time during my float. 

I have my speed set medium, to possibly slow. Not sure haha it's definitely not fast at all. But it works for how I grip the release.


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## iceman14 (Jan 25, 2011)

My HBC is set slightly towards the hot side of middle. I might slow it down a half turn before this weekend to force myself to get into the shot. 


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## bgviii (Feb 16, 2010)

I've gone through all the set up articles and procedures a while ago( yr or 2). I don't really have this problem in 3d. My hinge is set for a comfortable pull with all fingers and in pratice (and 3d) executes fine. It's when i'm really counting Xs that it hits. I suppose a form of target panic but maybe a little speed up worked into practice will only be a bandaid and it will just keep getting worse?? The other question I have, which may even be a separate topic, is do you guys hold your breathe at all during the shot? This seems to be causing some tense up as well which is affecting my firing.. currently I slow down my breathing as I aim and as I settle I let about half out and hold it...But if the release doesn't go it becomes a battle and all is lost. I usually just let down...but the amount of let downs lately in a tournament (because i stubbornly will not fire a bad arrow) is almost embarassing. So does anyone breathe all the way through the shot. It seems really foreign to me.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

Rcrlll brought up a great point and it forced me to sit back here and think really hard for a while and just like in a variety of sports there is something really important to consider. That thing is the middle ground, almost every time you are in the middle ground you are screwed. Rcrlll is coming at the problem from one side of the spectrum and I am coming at it from the totally opposite side and both of them work really well, it is when you are in the middle ground where you kind of have a tense hand that things get sketchy. 

For example when I got the ok from my surgeon to start shooting again around november 20 or so I went into the bow shop and I was nervous about my arm hurting or something giving way at half draw or something and I can remember coming to full draw with a overly clinched hand. Even though I know better that semi clinched hand lasted for a few days and my hinge was so freaking slow I had to speed it up to get it to fire nicely during my first few days of shooting. Well in doing so it became overly tight as far as the difference between being on the thumb peg and firing was a very narrow window. This happens because when your fingers are overly tense there is no give in them and when you let off the thumb peg the peg doesn't travel forward hardly at all so there is little to no safety slack. 

So right now for example my hand is nice and soft when drawing and coming to anchor and as I let go of the thumb peg it travels forward nicely and there is a good amount of safety slack that happens before my thumb leaves the peg. That is the built in safety that I have built into my setup and then there is a second part to my hinge setup, once I have my thumb completely off the peg how much more rotation do I want to go through for the hinge to fire. 

This concept is something that I need to talk about more often, I do it but I have rarely written about it and I think it is more part of my learning curve as a shooter and coach that I want to be proficient at it before dishing it out. 

So:

1. Drawing the bow safely with all fingers equally: This is a nice way to have a hinge set up. It allows you to have a nice smoothly spread out feel of your hinge and it limits the sore fingers and it allows you to come to anchor and not have to squeeze your fingers to get to some feel because you are already there. The hinge will not fire because you have the thumb on the thumb peg and it is your reference point and locking mechanism that keeps the hinge stable during the draw cycle. 

2. Safety slack: Safety slack is how much rotation of the hinge happens when you release the thumb peg and give that holding weight over to the index finger, If you squeeze the index finger you shrink the amount of safety slack and if you keep the index finger neutral you allow a lot of rotation of the hinge to happen as you release the peg and the safety slack increases. 

3. Execution rotation: So once you release the thumb peg and are sitting there floating on the spot and start running your firing engine how much do you have to rotate the hinge to fire it, well that is your choice. This is where working on your hinge speed becomes something to look at and perfect. Hinge speed is all about learning how to get your hand to the same grip on the hinge each and every time so that it has been rotated the same amount each and every shot before you start the execution and then once you start the execution hopefully there exists the same amount of rotation required to fire it each and every time.


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## montigre (Oct 13, 2008)

Those may be very good for initially setting up a release, but the OP is having another issue. 

I still recommend that he not change the current setting of his release now since his is averaging 50 something Xs in practice, but alternate between blank bale and a target face at close range (10 yards or so) while putting himself under some stress (like having his buddies shoot with him) to somewhat mimic competition nerves and work on integrating these slightly differing release styles so that the nerves do not cause so much hand tension--> release hang.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

So last friday I had a buddy that I have been shooting with for a couple years and he is 16 years old and a indoor only guy, He draws primarily with his index finger and thumb peg and when he comes to anchor he then wraps his ring finger and middle finger around the hinge and spreads out the pressures some what. Then he would execute the shot.

So he asked me if we could work on things and I asked him if he was willing to commit to doing a full shooting session of nothing but hinge setup and he said ok, so we slowed both of our hinges down and got started. The first step was to talk about a soft hand and actually draw the bow a few times with one and feel all of the fingers equally pulling the bow and to see the look on his face after just a couple let downs of the feel was something cool to see. This next paragraph is a important one so pay attention to it.

Now without speeding up the hinges because right now they are set really really slow we practiced feeling SAFETY SLACK, he had heard me talking about it in the past but just like you guys until you actually feel it doing its thing you aren't going to understand it. In fact I had him draw back and squeeze his indes finger first into the hinge and then release the peg so he could feel what it is like to have no safety slack and then we used a neutral index finger and released the thumb peg and he got to feel a good portion of safety slack. 

Then we finished off the hinge setup routine, we speeded up our honey badgers a quarter turn and came to anchor and with a neutral index finger we release the peg and gave the safety slack to the index finger and then let down. We then turned the speed another quarter turn and repeated knowing that sooner or later we would come to anchor and as we released the peg and let go of the safety slack the hinge would fire. This is important to understand that we aren't running a firing engine during this portion of the setup, we are releasing the peg only and we are setting up the safety slack at this time. 

So once we came to anchor and released the peg and the hinge fires without a firing engine we have now found our limits and then the next 30 minutes of the shooting session for hinge speed consisted of slowing down the hinge ever so slightly so that you can release the peg to that neutral index finger and then execute a smooth firing enigne and have the correct amount of rotation to send the arrow on its way.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

I read his original just now and there are some red flags in his paragraph, he is pulling into the wall and relaxing the index finger to send the arrow on its way. So this guy probably has a hinge that is set blazing fast and he has to really make sure that his index finger tenses up fully if not a little extra to make sure it doesn't accidentally fire. You match that kind of set up of a hinge with some nerves on the shooting line and it just amplifies the problems. 

With the set up routine that I just outlined above he can get away from the relaxing the index finger to fire the hinge but he can totally use that same style of execution just fine and in fact once he sets the hinge up correctly there will be one less step in the execution because the index finger relaxation is a thing of the past.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

Last night was actually my third day shooting since my buddy and I did that hinge setup session, I have been shooting with a much more soft hand approach since Hemstock talked to me about it a year or so ago but in all reality I was out in the middle. I think I had been so firm with my fingers so long that a middle of the road setting felt like a soft hand but really wasn't, so this really is my first time with a soft hand setup. Last night when I went into a indoor range I can honestly say that my first 10 shots or so were all about allowing my hand to go ahead and relax so those 10 shots progressively settled into that soft hand and I then got to just enjoy my shooting session.

What I can say is that there are two things that are really standing out in this current setup, I feel more safe because of the extra safety slack that happens and with the soft hand once I start execution of the shot the hinge just wants to do its thing instead of feeling locked up or frozen at all, it just starts rotating and the arrow is gone smoothly.


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## bgviii (Feb 16, 2010)

Nope! Not even close..As I said, i have this set in the middle and way heavier than anyone in my club. The HBC that I'm shooting has lines to tell how hot i have it and it's not close to anyone else's Truball i've seen. Plus i've been shooting hinges for 25 years and can tell a hot half moon on other brands... I pull with a full hand. And most definitley pull hard into the wall but I continue that pull to make the shot happen. I do not totally control the release with index finger...I like that and won't change..Where you are correct is that with extra nerves my index finger does tighten. That is completely the problem..So my question is simply, do i adjust the hinge for the nerves and learn to shoot it that way or just leave it like i like in practice with some travel? But once my mind has to get involved with the release i'm already annoyed because I want to aim....Also what's your thoughts on breathing?


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

Awesome, it really sounds like you have a good setting and you have been doing it for a long time so it may just come down to how you approach going to a competition. For me once I am attending leagues and stuff and get used to being on the line shooting scoring rounds with people it becomes easier and easier to just show up and do the same things I do when I am alone on the line at home. In fact that is my goal when i go to a league or bigger competition to simply enjoy the day and shoot just like I do at home. 

Here is another thought, Have you ever given permission to your hand to let the release rotate? This year I haven't been as strong as I have been in the past but I have actually executed really good and have had way less let downs in my leagues and at the iowa pro am. I work with people here on archery talk all the time and I do mention to them many times to give their hand permission to do its job which is allow the hinge to rotate. I also this year have reminded myself that it is going to fire so just enjoy the shot and stop worrying about it firing or freezing up or something. These two simple things mentally have allowed me to enjoy my shooting even though I am not as strong and not be standing there suffering.

It is so hard from a keyboard to see things in a guys shooting so I put a couple things out here today, I don't see a concrete issue in your shooting or a red flag that is obvious. Good luck and I hope it is something really simple and easy to clear up, indoor is so funny and finding a way to keep from dropping a few x's and ruining a day is tough sometimes.


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## bgviii (Feb 16, 2010)

Permission to the hand is an outstanding idea! I like that train of thought immensely!


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## RCR_III (Mar 19, 2011)

I know you may not have had the chance to watch the video I pm'd you, but if you have give me your feedback based on what I said in it and then what you're going through. Just curious if it's applicable in your situation. I feel like you're in a spot I've been in the past where you have a good set up during practice when you're loose but then during pressure situations you have the added tension and it's hard to relax the hinge into firing. To address the questions you have. Change how you're firing the hinge. There's so many methods to fire a hinge and each have pluses and minuses for everyone individually. I have two ways I fire a hinge that I've become proficient with and the reason I developed the second method was because of situations like you're describing. My primary way to fire a hinge is by letting my hand stretch and pivot at the base knuckles. This gives me a great release. But what about those times when I'm dealing with nerves? Well, then I go to my secondary method where I do not relax my hand, I just focus on moving the weight of the hinge pushing back into my fingers over to my ring finger. The increase in weight moves the hinge and bam, gone. I've played around with both methods and I find a hinge speed setting that keeps me in the right shot time window for each and this has been the best method I have found on combating a stiff hand. 

A lot of it is mental of course though as well. And I can preach calming down and finding focus points to take your mind off things and that's a great response and methods you should try to utilize, but there's times when that just isn't possible. Then you have to know you still have a method to execute your shot with and trust in it. Unfortunately, you'll only know after being in those pressure situations and finding what to adapt and adjust. Put some pressure on yourself practicing. Make the body tense up. I've gotten creative over the years with different options. I've lined up shots through trees with a little wiggle room in between so that I didn't want to waiver side to side. I've recently set up a camera at the target just under the 9 ring on a fita face and went back to 50 to shoot at it. That'll make you tense up a little haha just something to simulate the tension and then that helps you adjust your execution to it and have some confidence going into pressure situations. 


bgviii said:


> Nope! Not even close..As I said, i have this set in the middle and way heavier than anyone in my club. The HBC that I'm shooting has lines to tell how hot i have it and it's not close to anyone else's Truball i've seen. Plus i've been shooting hinges for 25 years and can tell a hot half moon on other brands... I pull with a full hand. And most definitley pull hard into the wall but I continue that pull to make the shot happen. I do not totally control the release with index finger...I like that and won't change..Where you are correct is that with extra nerves my index finger does tighten. That is completely the problem..So my question is simply, do i adjust the hinge for the nerves and learn to shoot it that way or just leave it like i like in practice with some travel? But once my mind has to get involved with the release i'm already annoyed because I want to aim....Also what's your thoughts on breathing?


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## RCR_III (Mar 19, 2011)

Sorry, forgot to address the breathing portion. I am similar to you on breaths. I take a full breath and let out some. OnTarget on here gave me an idea based off what he does with his breathing and I've adapted it some for myself. Basically, the amount of breath in your body fills your core and raises the chest and arms into place. If too much air is gone, it becomes easy to collapse. So experiment with the air in your chest, and don't be afraid to breathe in a little more during the shot if you can't let down and start over. Like if you're on the clock or something. It can help you bring a shot back up that's dropping and help your muscles have a bit more oxygen. But, the goal is to get your shots to fire during a window before this deterioration happens.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

I have two little issues that I have learned to deal with and both of them are taken care of just as I anchor and get my nose on the string, Breathing and blinking my eyes. I am a contacts wearer and my eyes want to blur out after being open without blinks after about 7 to 9 seconds. So I just added a nice little blink as I settle in and just before aiming, it is part of my shot sequence and not thought about. My breathing is the same, I have found that I prefer to hold my breath as I shoot over the years and I have tried a variety of methods but right now I simply take a good breath just before drawing and then let it out as I am drawing. Then as I come to anchor I take a medium full breath as I am settling in to the shot and take that last blink of my eyes and I then hold it. Both of these areas stay nice and stable most of the time doing this method.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

I am glad that we are having this discussion today, this has been a weird year for me shooting at a lower level than normal. When I look back at the years that have passed by since I began shooting 60x rounds the transformation into the shooter that I am today is a huge one. Right now I am a stronger more well rounded shooter than I ever have been but I can't shoot a perfect score. Back when I started shooting 60x rounds I had a frozen hand on the hinge and had no concept of back tension or methods to fire a hinge or how to aim and float, I simply used will power and shot a scoring round every stinking day and over the winter I could luck out and shoot a good chunk of them. 

One of my favorite nights ever I shot a 59x and beat my pro buddy Sam at a little league night and nothing about what I was doing back then still remains other than I am still paying my 10 bucks to enter. On top of that from week to week during that time period I might throw up a really nice score like that 59 and then next week not be able to fire the bow at all and be standing there forcing it to fire and sucking. 

I think for many people little bits of success where you throw up a good score causes them to justify the things good or bad that they were doing when that good score happens. That is why I can say that I am a stronger shooter right now than I was back then even though I am having to wait for the scores to come back because I can enjoy my league nights and execute with very few let downs and feel confident in my process because it is well defined and understood rather than forced.

That whole give hand permission thing is a big one for me right along with knowing the hinge is going to fire. For years I know that I had doubt when I drew the bow back weather or not it was going to fire and I felt a great hold on the target was going to be wasted time and time again. Just rotating the hinge doesn't solve the problem because if you have doubt as you rotate it in the back of your mind things aren't going to happen and as you get to the end of the rotation that should have done the job your doubt grows and then things come to a stop and you are screwed. 

But

If you have confidence that your hinge is going to fire and you give your hand permission to do it job then you can stand there and enjoy the sensation of a sweet shot with no anxiety and send a smooth shot on its way. That is why I consider myself a stronger shooter than I was in the past.


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## Rick! (Aug 10, 2008)

bgviii said:


> Nope! Not even close..As I said, i have this set in the middle and way heavier than anyone in my club. The HBC that I'm shooting has lines to tell how hot i have it and it's not close to anyone else's Truball i've seen. Plus i've been shooting hinges for 25 years and can tell a hot half moon on other brands... I pull with a full hand. And most definitley pull hard into the wall but I continue that pull to make the shot happen. I do not totally control the release with index finger...I like that and won't change..Where you are correct is that with extra nerves my index finger does tighten. That is completely the problem..So my question is simply, do i adjust the hinge for the nerves and learn to shoot it that way or just leave it like i like in practice with some travel? But once my mind has to get involved with the release i'm already annoyed because I want to aim....Also what's your thoughts on breathing?


You can pick up an identical hinge and set it "faster" to use when you starting hanging up. It worked for me in competition the last two years. My fundamental adjustment now is to stick to my process step for step, breathe in at the right time and partially exhale at the proper time to assist in proper transfer and relaxation. In doing so, I've actually slowed down my release considerably to get my hand into a more consistent position to facilitate a shot break that hangs up way less. In the end, though, it's still about committing to the shot...


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## bgviii (Feb 16, 2010)

Rick! said:


> In the end, though, it's still about committing to the shot...


What does this really mean? Do I just start shooting the arrow however my preferred method is and I don't stop even if I drift off? No micro managing at all? My best feeling shots are the ones that i start drawing the bow and never really quit. The settle and the execution all fall into place before the release goes off. But I cannot keep that timing for 60 arrows. I'm bound to get an early misfire and miss the X. So then if I increase the tension, i get hung up. Please keep in mind i'm sort of splitting hairs here. I'm talking about the difference between 42x on a NFAA indoor 300 round and 55X


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## montigre (Oct 13, 2008)

You've been competing for 25 years or so and have been doing fairly respectably at that. Now, at your stage of development, you've probably gone well past working and tuning "by the numbers" and do most everything from evaluating your form to setting up your equipment by feel.

I'd like to know what are you feeling that is different when you notice your release is hanging up during competitions (both mentally [if applicable] and physically)? 

What feelings in your body and with your equipment do you perceive when you notice your timing is off? 

What thoughts come into your head that makes you feel you should increase the tension in your release hand?


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## bgviii (Feb 16, 2010)

I'll be comfortably holding, sometimes like a rock, but often this is when the biggest hang ups occur. I will try to wait it out or gently increase my tension on the release because it doesn't go off and my mental clock knows i'm not "on schedule" for a perfect shot by itself. In the end when i'm running out of breath or strength and the tension has built up to the feeling of like i'm about to pull the bow in half. Usually I will let down at this point because 1. i've lost total focus (on how pretty the sight picture is lol)..and 2. because i'm starting to really bob all over the place but essentially low...I've discovered however, that when i let down, i've actually been collasping not expanding and i'm creeping. Sometimes a lot if its a really long hold. I shoot best at 8-12 seconds...after that...forget it! I'm starting over. This is also why I say that my best shots are based on continually drawing the bow..But this can get really aggressive and cost me. Either with a big miss right (im LH) or mostly high. Because of this problem, under pressure, I rarely shoot consistently by drawing through the shot.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

Last night I did one of my favorite drills to see where I am at with my hinge setup. This little drill to me tells a guy so much about his hinge speed and it also teaches a great lesson for shooting late in his shot window. So here it is.

1. 5 let downs: I did 5 let downs where I came to full draw and let off of the thumb peg and just floated for my entire shot window and then I let down. I did this with my perfect grip so that I could make sure the hinge isn't set up to fast and that I might have extra tension in the index finger to keep it from firing. Out of the 5 let downs 4 of the 5 went perfectly and one of them fired just before I let down at the very end of my shot window. 

2. Next 20 shots: These 20 shots are the second phase of this drill because now I am going to come to the x and release the peg and begin floating on the x, at that time I start counting slowly to 5 and after 5 seconds of floating I then start my firing enigine and smoothly execute the shot very late in the shot window. 

3. Finish the session: Now I can finish the shooting session with a scoring round or new target and just enjoy banging x's, what ever feels good that day 

That little shooting session or drill that I just laid out allows you to specifically feel your hinge speed setting for what it really is, why? Because we separated out getting off of the thumb peg and settling into the release and gaining the trust in our grip of the hinge and the speed setting that it wasn't so fast that we had to be scared of it and be careful to not accidentally fire it. Then by counting to 5 before we fire the hinge this allows us to relax and allow the pin to be on the x and not feel any anxiety that we have got to start right now because things are perfect. We also got to feel and accept that shooting late in our shot window is not only doable but something that when the time is running out on the clock something that we can do easily.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

Now, if you do this drill and are wanting to work on the speed setting where you actually change the speed then:

1. You come to anchor and during the 5 let downs every time you let go of the thumb peg and the hinge fires with your perfect grip of the hinge you are to fast

2. During the 20 shots of counting to 5 and then running your engine you find yourself not able to fire then you may need to speed up, in this case you have to evaluate weather or not the engine is running or frozen up. If it is frozen speeding up the hinge is not the answer but if you are rotating the hinge and it isn't firing then change it.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

In the last year or so here on archery talk I have talked about holding deep into the shot window and either letting down or beginning the firing engine really late and shooting in that last portion of the shot window on purpose. I know that it is helping me so much competing this year because I am able to smoothly execute and send the arrow on its way without freaking out and I am having way less let downs than in the years past.

I got the idea for my little drills like the one above from levi morgan, he has one where he holds forever and just aims and then lets down and I started doing it shortly after hearing about it and then I expanded it to what I wrote out.


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## montigre (Oct 13, 2008)

Your statement made me remember something from a couple of summers ago. I and some friends were at the range shooting and one of the friends who has been shooting for about 45 years and has an impressive collection of silver bowels to his name was banging out arrows at the 20 yard line. Being field shooters, we usually throw a couple down at 20 just to warm up, then move to our practice distances--50-60 yards. I should add that he also draws, anchors, and executes in one slow, fluid movement as you describe in your post.

Well this day I had just finished my sets on the 20 and I and another friend left the line to get some much needed water when I noticed he was appearing to have some issues with the release hanging up. So I quietly watched the next few shots and on one, he stood, at full draw, release clicked, not moving a muscle for a full 40 seconds before the release fired and the arrow flew to the X. I and another friend discovered we had actuallly started holding our breath during this after the arrow hit, you could hear a very audible inhalation from us as we gasped for air. I asked him later what he was doing that would cause him to hold that long and he replied he was having an argument with his head and that he had made up his mind he was not going to lose. He then went to the 60 yard target and pounded the middle with ease.... 

This made me think that perhaps some of what you're experiencing as a fairly new left-handed shooter, is a lack of trust that the left side is going to perform in the manner you've trained it to while at competitions. As a result of this lack of trust, you've started giving your mind the okay that it is fine to let the nerves creap in and tighten up your hand, which makes the hang up more pronounced intil you're caught in a catch 22 scenario. 

Rather than trying to "muscle" through it by adding increasing tension over the amount you usually use in practice or holding longer, why not make every effort to let down as soon as you recognize you're starting to run past your normal shot window of 8-12 seconds. You may want to take a turn or two out of your limbs while doing this because you'll be letting down a lot and your left side is still building up the strength that will allow you to shoot as you did as a righty. 

I feel this may help to increase the confidence with your left-handed shooting that you simply do not have to the extent you had with your right. Give it a try for a couple of weeks in league or your next local competitions and see what happens. :wink:


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## ILOVE3D (Feb 4, 2009)

Just a suggestion on using two identical releases set at different speeds, I shoot two different bows, same hinges although one is colder than the other. My 3d bow is about 8 lbs heavier than my indoor target bow. I use the hotter setup hinge on my target bow it's no problem but the additional 8 lbs on my 3d bow gives me early releases sometimes but I can use the colder set hinge on my target bow with far less issues if any. If your just using one poundage or bow setup I don't think it will be a problem once you get them set up to your liking and what works for you.


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## BowHuntnKY (Dec 10, 2008)

My stan jet black is as hot as it will go and still to cold for me...lol


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## jim p (Oct 29, 2003)

Padget, when you let down do you hold onto the thumb peg?

I use a .006" clicker. I draw holding onto the thumb peg. Sometimes I will hear the click as I draw. When I hit anchor I release the thumb peg and relax the hand and hear the click. To fire the release I continue to relax the hand and slightly increase the pull into the shot.

I have my bow setup so that there is no valley so I have to hold around 20 lbs at anchor.


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## RCR_III (Mar 19, 2011)

jim p said:


> Padget, when you let down do you hold onto the thumb peg?
> 
> I use a .006" clicker. I draw holding onto the thumb peg. Sometimes I will hear the click as I draw. When I hit anchor I release the thumb peg and relax the hand and hear the click. To fire the release I continue to relax the hand and slightly increase the pull into the shot.
> 
> I have my bow setup so that there is no valley so I have to hold around 20 lbs at anchor.


I'm sure Padgett will comment on this when he sees it, but I wanted to comment on something in your post. I don't always get my thumb back on, I'll shift all my weight to the index or index and thumb to let down. 

What sticks out to me in your post is you saying sometimes you get to the click during draw, sometimes you don't. People that use a click often lose focus on finger pressures and consistent set up because they use the click as a cover up for this. What you need to do is set up the hinge correctly so that you have a repeatable pressure set up through all fingers and a repeatable process. Then, with this correct set up, you'll be able to let down safely. 

Take a look at this How I Set Up A Hinge Release | rcrchery
https://rcrchery.wordpress.com/2015/12/19/how-i-set-up-a-hinge-release/


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## bgviii (Feb 16, 2010)

After extensive testing with all the different ideas the week and the weekend, including changing my release to the click feature, i've come to the determination that the real issue for me is just the inability to relax my hand under pressure to allow my shot to happen. Adding the step of elongating my hand at anchor prior to bearing down on the shot, has seemed to help this. Also, weirdly enough, keeping good posture and breathing helps as well. I'm going to keep the click however, because it helps me know that I'm not close to a misfire and then to start the shot process. Ultimately, a loose hand generates the sweetest releases regardless of setting. Learning to trust and relax is more key than speed setting. Thanks for all the help and suggestions. I did learn some things!


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## rsw (May 22, 2002)

I have had great success over many, many years with a pretty simple style. It may not work for you, but here we go. 

1. Relaxation in the release hand is paramount - think about this every time you draw the bow.
2. I take a pretty deep grip on my release.
3. Sweet Spot set fairly slow - 75% of draw weight on index finger/25% on 2nd finger (2 finger release)
4. Get on the spot - release safety - smooth continual rotation to release with activation in 4-6 seconds. 
5. Focus is on target spot in concert with the bubble.
6. I don't let myself OVERTHINK and get all complex with the myriad of things many people do. It is really a simple process. 

*I NEVER RELAX MY INDEX FINGER AS THAT IS THE POINT OF ROTATION AND I DON' WANT IT TO CHANGE POSITION AT ALL!!*


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

When I let down it just happens and I grab back onto the thumb peg without even having to think about it, I actually never have misfires which years ago scared me to death and I avoided letting down from the fear. Once I started competing with the hinge it didn't take long to become ok with letting down. I actually think that when I decided to let down I slightly squeeze my index finger as my thumb is coming back to the thumb peg and in the same moment I just start letting down.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

Hey, about a week and a half ago I spent some time working on thumb position after letting go of the thumb peg. I have always hated my thumb just being out in the middle of no where so I like to give it a place to be, to make a long story short right now I am doing something so simple but effective. I am taking off my thumb and then touching the very end of my thumb peg with it, it is really working awesome. First of all it is giving my thumb some place to be and my thumb feels kind of relaxed instead of stiff, secondly and probably more importantly it is proving to be a reference point and it is cleaning up my hinge speed. I don't shoot with a click so I have no idea when it is going to fire and if my grip on the hinge changes at all the speed of the hinge changes and could be faster or slower from shot to shot and this little choice to put my thumb on the end of the peg and just rest it there is cleaning up things. Right now I am firing in my shot window like clock work and feeling awesome.


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## jim p (Oct 29, 2003)

Thanks. I letdown pretty much like you. I have also been troubled with my thumb placement. I have tried placing the thumb in various places and now I just let it go where it goes and don't think about it.


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

I shoot with a click in my hinge, sometimes it'll click on the draw and generally I let down if it does.
The hinge I use has a fairly long travel after the click, but I like having that reference point for starting the shot.
So long as I'm on the peg there is zero chance of a misfire and I don't feel any anxiety letting down.

Grant


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## rsw (May 22, 2002)

Not fast at all. Fast releases are the first step to panic for many shooters. I don't think any top shooters have hot hinges. Make yourself work a little bit and your shooting will likely improve.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

I think I want to define a fast hinge and a really slow hinge:

FAST HINGE

A fast hinge is a hinge that from the moment you hook onto the string if you accidentally rotate it any at all it is going to fire from the time you begin drawing the bow all the way back to anchor. Then as you release the peg you have to be very careful and do it so precicely because you aren't ready yet.

SLOW HINGE

A slow hinge is where you can draw the bow anyway you want and you come to anchor and release the peg and then you have to start rotating the hinge a long ways before it fires.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

Now what are most of the really good pro shooters doing, They are drawing the bow with a hinge that has a lot of safety built into it and as they settle into the shot they have tens of thousands of practice shots built into their grip so they can soak up all that safety and once they do that they are right on the edge of firing. Then they execute a very sweet small amount of rotation and the arrow is gone. So a pro shooter shoots with a slow and fast hinge.

Levi morgan and Jesse are doing this with a click, they can draw comfortably and come to anchor and get to the click and once they are there they are right on the edge of firing and they know exactly where they are. 

Smooth moon shooters are are doing the same thing but they have to rely on feel and more precision of getting to the exact same place every time because they have no warning click but they are not drawing the bow on the edge, Braden G is fun to watch and he comes to anchor and you can see his hand soaking up the safety and then he executes the shot and to me his pinky is a huge reference point for him that his shot is ready to execute just like jesse and levi are using the click.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

To so many people they see any and all rotation of the hinge as the execution of the hinge but this is where they are wrong, much of the rotation is just the soaking up of all the built in safety and a good shooter knows when they are right there on the edge and ready to execute. The click is a great option to avoid the years of training to become a smooth moon guy but you have to understand how to use the click properly so it doesn't freak you out.


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## rattlinman (Dec 30, 2004)

As a long time hinge shooter myself, I really can't add much to what has already been typed, except a story and an analogy.

I shot Open classes most of my life and wasn't always 100% confident on my judging, so I allowed a little safety, or error room in each shot, meaning, I never aimed at the 12. Two years ago I wasn't able to shoot many tourneys or practice yardage much, so I signed up in Known 45. Because I KNEW the yardage and am confident in my shot, I would try to aim HARD at the 12. Guess what, I froze up. I would struggle and struggle to get the release to go off, but my hand wouldn't relax if I slid off the 12 ring.

Analogy: I learned to aim in the general area of the 12, relax, and let the bow do it's job.

Maybe you are freezing up because you are trying too hard to stay on the X during competition. Instead, aim in the general area, not on a specific "X", and let the bow do it's job.

Hope this helps. :thumbs_up


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

To answer the question....I shoot a .006 click on my hinge. 

I shoot a fairly relaxed Shot. So I don't think it's that fast and I regularlylet down and have no issues


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## bgviii (Feb 16, 2010)

Padgett said:


> I think I want to define a fast hinge and a really slow hinge:
> 
> FAST HINGE
> 
> ...


I'm not trying with this perspective because this is your opinion and that's fine. For clarification, my original question was not about this at all. What I meant was the amount of travel executed during the "firing engine" . From your perspective, you are leading the conversation towards hinge set up and that is not my question. I fully know how I like to set up my hinge and have played with many methods arriving at what's comfortable for me over years of practice and trial and error. I was asking if the actual speed, from the start of seriously aiming until explosion, is very subtle or is there a lot of travel. While this may depend on things like target panic etc, most shooters over the 55x mark aren't really dealing with that issue. I was curious to this demographic of shooters, in that scoring range and what those particular time frames is set at for them.


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## stromdidilly (Jan 8, 2014)

I have mine set up with no click and speed set so that I can draw with a bit of pressure on my ring finger but if I release pressure from the thumb peg at all during the draw, it will more than likely go off. What I've found is that this gives me a very repeatable sense of pressure on my thumb, index, and middle fingers so that when I transition and anchor the pressure from the thumb peg is released to my index finger. Firing at that point is merely a slow pull of my ring finger towards my back pocket.


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## Lazarus (Sep 19, 2005)

bgviii said:


> I'm not trying with this perspective because this is your opinion and that's fine. For clarification, my original question was not about this at all. What I meant was the amount of travel executed during the "firing engine" . From your perspective, you are leading the conversation towards hinge set up and that is not my question. I fully know how I like to set up my hinge and have played with many methods arriving at what's comfortable for me over years of practice and trial and error. I was asking if the actual speed, from the start of seriously aiming until explosion, is very subtle or is there a lot of travel. While this may depend on things like target panic etc, most shooters over the 55x mark aren't really dealing with that issue. I was curious to this demographic of shooters, in that scoring range and what those particular time frames is set at for them.


Great post...there is a seminar in that post alone. 

You hit on something in the post that I have been thinking since you posted this topic. For all practical purposes the "speed" of the firing of the hinge over time becomes less and less relevant. Is that a function of our thinking mind? I believe it isn't. Why? Because over time your body and sub conscious become accustomed to just how much pressure you can put on the handle during the draw or the settling period without firing the release. Which in turn makes the setting almost irrelevant. Case in point, you can set one super hot and within 50 shots you will be experiencing a whole different "release" than the first few arrows you shot. It will take far more effort, because not only will you be drawing slightly different but the rest of the story is this; your mind will know that the release is right on the edge so you are far more tentative on those shots after you have experienced the hot release than you were on those first few. 

Bottom line, it's my opinion that the actual firing speed has little to do with your shot because of the way your mind adjusts to that speed (or you could say travel.) The true speed will be dictated by just how good you are at "letting go" and will have little to do with the settings. .02


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## cbrunson (Oct 25, 2010)

bgviii said:


> I have my HBC set about in the middle of the lines on the indicator showing the "hot" setting. I shoot fairly well in practice for me with an moderate and steady pull with a slight relax in the index finger. I shoot around low 50x on a NFAA 5 spot. I've noticed that in tournaments i tend to not shoot as well and I start thinking about the release going off instead of my normal shot or I have to really focus on pulling/ relaxing finger to get it to go. I also know that how fast a hinge goes off is dependant on how you are pulling it to some extent so I will say I can feel the movement for a bit before it goes normally...Is it better for me to keep working to duplicate the same shot as i get in practice in tournaments or relearn the shot a little and micro manage it with a hotter setting in hopes of not having to fight it as much when I get nervous? How do you guys who shoot 55x and above have yours set? Hot or with some movement?



If I may........ The change is a product of tension. That tension is the result of mental management issues. I don't believe it can be solved with simple mechanical adjustments, as I've tried myself many times. You can add a little safety factor to help minimize hang ups, but the root I believe is more in mental conditioning.

I know that is not the information you were looking for specifically, but something you might consider. Pretty much nailed in the first reply to your post.


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## Flip Flop (Jan 1, 2005)

Whenever my hinge starts hangin' up on pressure shots I toss a few more in my release pouch at different settings....it keeps my mind on what is important.


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## bgviii (Feb 16, 2010)

cbrunson said:


> If I may........ The change is a product of tension. That tension is the result of mental management issues. I don't believe it can be solved with simple mechanical adjustments, as I've tried myself many times. You can add a little safety factor to help minimize hang ups, but the root I believe is more in mental conditioning.
> 
> I know that is not the information you were looking for specifically, but something you might consider. Pretty much nailed in the first reply to your post.


Ultimately...I think you are completely right.....But i still wanted to hear everyone's opinion. 
Thanks


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

I am a very big advocate of a properly set up hinge that compliments your shooting and for me right now nothing does this better than a tru ball honey badger because of its micro adjust. 

So here is a thought that I just had when I skimmed back through this three page thread, over and over again I have seen pro shooters at vegas or lancasters shooting awesome and winning the tournament or in a shoot down and they are adding clicks to their windage. I have heard pro shooters say that we trust our execution and when the arrow is hitting to the right we just move the sight. Well why can't we use that same confidence in our execution when it comes to hinge shooting, we are shooting awesome and for some reason our body is a little different today and we need to slow it or speed it up a little and just continue enjoying our day. 

Hinge shooting is all about angles and those angles in our shooting form and grip and anchor of the hinge all add up to slight differences in our shooting from day to day so why is it a bad thing to just slightly change the speed of the hinge and set it so that your shooting stays the same but the hinge matches the shooting. Why is it so common place for guys to be instructed to suffer and just learn how to deal with the current setting?


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## cbrunson (Oct 25, 2010)

bgviii said:


> Ultimately...I think you are completely right.....But i still wanted to hear everyone's opinion.
> Thanks


When I used one last, I kept travel to a minimum. As with any set up, you learn it and develop anticipation the same as any other release unless you learn how to beat it. That is if you manipulate the handle to fire it.


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## bgviii (Feb 16, 2010)

Padgett said:


> I am a very big advocate of a properly set up hinge that compliments your shooting and for me right now nothing does this better than a tru ball honey badger because of its micro adjust.
> QUOTE]
> 
> I shoot the HBC as well and love it, until very recently...I've stumbled on a release that i'm probably shooting differently than the manufacter intended it, but boy, is it sweet. Scott longhorn hex. Because this is marketed to hunters and new hinge shooter it uses a wrist strap design to pull the bow. The wrist strap is connected to what essentially is the 2nd and 3rd finger of a hinge (longhorn). Since the wrist strap is holding the bow weight there is no need for a first finger..And there is no way it can misfire..The manufacturer indicates using index and 2nd finger to fire. I'm using my middle and 3rd finger..this thing shoots just like a hinge, is a hinge, with no 1st finger issues. I'm shooting some unbelievable shots with this thing! I truly can just aim and execute...without worrying about grip or relaxation or all that stuff! I'm usually in the camp that you can't cheat great technique, but I think i just may have! To a certain extent. lol. This may be an inappropriate topic now for this forum but I highly suggest checking this out if you struggle with 1st finger issues. And since its seems like the entire hinge world does based on marketing, HBX, Fulkrum, Halo, Backspin and on and on, i'm shocked this is "under the radar".


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## montigre (Oct 13, 2008)

I am also an HBC user and really like the weight, feel, and adjustability of this particular hinge. But your story reminds me of the time a few years back when I set up my Stan BlackJack very much like the Longhorn Hex by using the wrist strap off the Hex. I did that at the time not because of index finger issues, but when it rained, the Stan would become slippery as snot and I was finding I was losing my focus wondering if it was going to slip out of my hand when shooting in not so perfect weather conditions (I did almost lose it once). 

Anyway, it did take some of the effort off of the index finger and minimized the balancing act you have to do with a hinge to keep it tamed, but I have a sneaky feeling that once the honeymoon period is over with this hinge, you may find yourself back in your original position of inconsistent release firing when competing. Spend some time correcting the mental issue and you won't have to look for a quick fix...You'll be able to confidently shoot any release out there with equal confidence.... 

Oh, you can misfire that release if your head takes a nap when it shouldn't....:wink:


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## Lazarus (Sep 19, 2005)

Padgett said:


> Why is it so common place for guys to be instructed to suffer and just learn how to deal with the current setting?


One shooters suffering is another shooters discipline. :cheers:


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## bgviii (Feb 16, 2010)

montigre said:


> Spend some time correcting the mental issue and you won't have to look for a quick fix...You'll be able to confidently shoot any release out there with equal confidence....
> 
> Oh, you can misfire that release if your head takes a nap when it shouldn't....:wink:


You could be right although since this is a hinge I don't really see how it will be that much different. Honestly though, I think most people shoot a hinge because they can't just "fix" their target panic or whatever manifestation they have preventing them from consistently executing a surprise shot. Would you then say, don't switch to a hinge? Learn to shoot the thumb or the index finger properly? I don't think so. I think that great execution is still required and the base form does not change regardless of the release used. Everyone chooses equipment that helps them achieve this goal... This isn't aiming at 6 o'clock on the bullseye and sighting high because of freezing or some trick to cover an ailment. This is completely removing an area that may be needless, in my opinion, for me to execute a great shot. Especially when I still am shooting a hinge. I also know many people who train with a hinge or a tension release like an element to keep their shot pure yet still compete with a thumb or something else. Perhaps this will also become a training aid and once i've gone as far as this can take me I will evolve again...Time will only tell but there is always more than one way to achieve something. At this time I see no reason to fight the index finger if I don't have too.


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## cbrunson (Oct 25, 2010)

Lazarus said:


> One shooters suffering is another shooters discipline. :cheers:


So few seem to recognize the difference. Selling "fluff" is readily accepted.


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## cbrunson (Oct 25, 2010)

montigre said:


> Spend some time correcting the mental issue and you won't have to look for a quick fix...You'll be able to confidently shoot any release out there with equal confidence....


This. ^^^^^^. 

It often feels like this concept is far out of reach when really, it's not. Before you can win any battle, you have to actually start fighting it.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

Here is the problem, you have a great hold and are doing a good job executing a nice amount of rotation by some method. 

The method does not matter.

Now, with one camp you are told to just keep working and changing and find a way to rotate even more or change the pressure on the grip or move the fingers in the grip , basically you have to change your shot.

In the other camp you are allowed to keep the exact same execution because it is really solid and just slightly change the speed of the hinge until it is within the range of rotation that you were already producing.

Both camps work, the key here is not to pretend that one camp is better than the other. We need to give people options and the key skills within that option that allows them to work from that camp and be successful.


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