# Cecil The Lion........



## nyturkeyduster (Aug 5, 2006)

Yeah, we know. This is only the 16th thread about it....


----------



## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

I did not see any other threads on this.......


----------



## rustyhart (Feb 20, 2014)

Personally, I have no desire to kill a lion, but I don't give a damn is somebody else wants to. Why is this such a big deal?


----------



## RightWing (Aug 22, 2004)

Cecil the lion is gone, but Anthony the antelope can rest a little easier.


----------



## zap (Mar 13, 2008)




----------



## hunterhewi (Jun 12, 2010)

Senseless idiots zap...


----------



## Michael Myers (Nov 13, 2008)

wacko nut job do gooder/tree huggers......they make me want to vomit....:cheers:


----------



## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

A few nut jobs shut down this fellas dental office, probably for good.

No one will have the nads to do business with him.


----------



## hunterhewi (Jun 12, 2010)

These f$&@ing morons act like they hand fed the damn cat every day of his life. Id bet 99% of the idiot tree huggings lefties had never heard of the lion before all this.


----------



## Michael Myers (Nov 13, 2008)

kill em' n' grill em' and let the anti's kiss our....................


----------



## Pittstate23 (Dec 27, 2010)

i can't believe our media is filled with this stuff.


----------



## hunterhewi (Jun 12, 2010)

But but but he was such a "beloved" lion. Please our media in this country is ridiculous. Im with grizz!!


----------



## Michael Myers (Nov 13, 2008)

hunterhewi said:


> These f$&@ing morons act like they hand fed the damn cat every day of his life. Id bet 99% of the idiot tree huggings lefties had never heard of the lion before all this.


They make me sick....The world has gone crazy...i try and avoid most people nowadays,i stick to being around hunters and that's about it.....I still have it pretty good as i am in a pro Conservative, pro hunting area,however the do gooders are moving out of the city and getting closer....it's too bad they voted that db Kathleen wynne into power,i guess that's why they bring them over...to get their vote.....Grizz


----------



## ILLbucknut (Jul 12, 2007)

Takes the attention off of Hillary and her emails.


----------



## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

a family grieves for the lion......outside the dentist office..


----------



## hunterhewi (Jun 12, 2010)

^^^ are you f$&@ing kidding me!? What the hell is wrong with these morons? Glad im out her in the middle of nowhere kansas. Dont hear of many "anti" hunters around here. I agree Grizz its pretty sad to see how ignorant and lost society as a whole is.


----------



## catkinson (Jul 17, 2007)

Media outlets mobilize to condemn the death of one lion, but they let out a collective yawn when Planned Parenthood’s caught on camera pricing out baby lungs and livers.


----------



## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

Its a short trip from murdering Cecil to murdering bambi....

yup.


----------



## brushdog (May 11, 2009)

Certainly looks good to me!!


----------



## hunterhewi (Jun 12, 2010)

Well isnt that the way of society? Dont know that lion had more feelings than any human being could ever have


----------



## that1guy27 (Jun 26, 2015)

zap said:


> A few nut jobs shut down this fellas dental office, probably for good.
> 
> No one will have the nads to do business with him.


I'd do business with him just for this reason lol.



hunterhewi said:


> ^^^ are you f$&@ing kidding me!? What the hell is wrong with these morons? Glad im out her in the middle of nowhere kansas. Dont hear of many "anti" hunters around here. I agree Grizz its pretty sad to see how ignorant and lost society as a whole is.


Its a fckng lion! it would have killed you if it had the chance, hopefully the money he paid went to something good, and the food got donated. Most trophy hunters help the local communties in where they are hunting 100x more then people think.


----------



## I like Meat (Feb 14, 2009)

Piss on that damn lion........its just an animal...... Babies are being pulled out of their mothers womb, skull's crushed and their body parts sold by nazi like clowns from planned parenthood, Isis is cutting off heads of hundreds of Christians, Boko Harum is kidnapping young girls and selling them on the black market, O'dipwad makes sure Iran will get nukes....and this lion CRAP is the headlines...WE ARE SO SCREWED!!


----------



## hunterhewi (Jun 12, 2010)

brushdog said:


> Certainly looks good to me!!


I bet them lion steaks are tasty! Especially cecils since its apperant everyone in mourning hand fed him their table scraps for 13 years. Should be nice and tender


----------



## MN Doe Hunter (Dec 22, 2003)

Cyber-bullying effectively ruined this guy's career, all in the span of 48 hours.

Ironically enough, the clowns who ruined this guy's life are likely the same people who are the first to run to the principal/school district if their own kid is being bullied.


----------



## KRONIIK (Jun 3, 2014)

I like Meat said:


> Piss on that damn lion........its just an animal...... Babies are being pulled out of their mothers womb, skull's crushed and their body parts sold by nazi like clowns from planned parenthood, Isis is cutting off heads of hundreds of Christians, Boko Harum is kidnapping young girls and selling them on the black market, O'dipwad makes sure Iran will get nukes....and this lion CRAP is the headlines...WE ARE SO SCREWED!!


 This.


----------



## outdooraholic (Apr 15, 2008)

I like Meat said:


> Piss on that damn lion........its just an animal...... Babies are being pulled out of their mothers womb, skull's crushed and their body parts sold by nazi like clowns from planned parenthood, Isis is cutting off heads of hundreds of Christians, Boko Harum is kidnapping young girls and selling them on the black market, O'dipwad makes sure Iran will get nukes....and this lion CRAP is the headlines...WE ARE SO SCREWED!!


couldnt have said it better myself!!!


----------



## rustyhart (Feb 20, 2014)

I like Meat said:


> Piss on that damn lion........its just an animal...... Babies are being pulled out of their mothers womb, skull's crushed and their body parts sold by nazi like clowns from planned parenthood, Isis is cutting off heads of hundreds of Christians, Boko Harum is kidnapping young girls and selling them on the black market, O'dipwad makes sure Iran will get nukes....and this lion CRAP is the headlines...WE ARE SO SCREWED!!


I don't usually agree with you, but I do here. Especially about planned parenthood.


----------



## Cjclemens (Aug 20, 2013)

The part that bothers me the most is that, out of dozens of lions killed on safari, they single this guy out. He's not the only one who's killed a lion and, for all we know, the poor dumb fool thought he was on a legit hunting trip. Now his livelihood and reputation is wrecked because of a greedy, crooked outfitter and the liberal news media needed someone to throw under the bus.


----------



## turkeyhunter60 (Apr 19, 2010)

Jimmy Kimmel was crying on his show about it...And Fox News said that the guides and him(I believe), tried destroying the tracking collar....


----------



## sinko (Dec 1, 2004)

Maybe the bunny hugers can go to Africa and pet the nice kitties some, most won't make it back and we will let stupidly sort its self out. 

Another example of we've gone to pot.


----------



## COArrow (Nov 24, 2013)

rustyhart said:


> I don't usually agree with you, but I do here. Especially about planned parenthood.


Just like people are jumping to conclusions with this hunter, it seems planned parenthood wasn't doing what was reported either. Crazy, people just believe about everything they read.


----------



## rustyhart (Feb 20, 2014)

COArrow said:


> Just like people are jumping to conclusions with this hunter, it seems planned parenthood wasn't doing what was reported either. Crazy, people just believe about everything they read.


I haven't heard that, but even if it was true it doesn't change the fact that planned parenthood is an organization fueled by nothing but greed and pure evil.


----------



## COArrow (Nov 24, 2013)

rustyhart said:


> I haven't heard that, but even if it was true it doesn't change the fact that planned parenthood is an organization fueled by nothing but greed and pure evil.


Now you sound like the folks outside of the Dentist office.


----------



## rustyhart (Feb 20, 2014)

COArrow said:


> Now you sound like the folks outside of the Dentist office.


The thing is, that guy killed one goddamn lion where as planned parenthood kills millions of unborn babies every year.


----------



## COArrow (Nov 24, 2013)

rustyhart said:


> The thing is, that guy killed one goddamn lion where as planned parenthood kills millions of unborn babies every year.


Everyone has their cause, just your statements and generalizations are the same ones on their signs. You are also comparing a privilege to a constitutional right, that is a whole different discussion. I am sure like has been stated let due process take place both for the hunter and planned parenthood and if neither has broker any laws then perhaps the premature judgement was out of line.


----------



## rustyhart (Feb 20, 2014)

COArrow said:


> Everyone has their cause, just your statements and generalizations are the same ones on their signs. You are also comparing a privilege to a constitutional right, that is a whole different discussion. I am sure like has been stated let due process take place both for the hunter and planned parenthood and if neither has broker any laws then perhaps the premature judgement was out of line.


I'm not quite sure what you're trying to say here. 

Do you support planned parenthood?


----------



## COArrow (Nov 24, 2013)

rustyhart said:


> I'm not quite sure what you're trying to say here.
> 
> Do you support planned parenthood?


I support the Constitution and the rights it affords us. Not my decision if it is right or wrong. I am just pointing out the behavior towards planned parent hood on this site is very similar to the anti's towards hunting. Both fueled by emotion, but not supported by the law of the land. People who start to feel their personal beliefs are above the law and they can condemn a person for legal behavior is out of line I believe. Hypocrisy to its highest point to attack planned parenthood but not understand but even condemn the antis when it seems you have a lot in common.


----------



## rustyhart (Feb 20, 2014)

COArrow said:


> I support the Constitution and the rights it affords us. Not my decision if it is right or wrong. I am just pointing out the behavior towards planned parent hood on this site is very similar to the anti's towards hunting. Both fueled by emotion, but not supported by the law of the land. People who start to feel their personal beliefs are above the law and they can condemn a person for legal behavior is out of line I believe. Hypocrisy to its highest point to attack planned parenthood but not understand but even condemn the antis when it seems you have a lot in common.


Constitution? Please point me to where in the Constitution it says anything about abortion.


----------



## tote (Mar 29, 2013)

It kills me to see these "humans" care less about a human and more about an animal they've never heard of before this.
Some people just thrive on drama.
Haters are gonna hate.


----------



## COArrow (Nov 24, 2013)

rustyhart said:


> Constitution? Please point me to where in the Constitution it says anything about abortion.


I will have to back to look for sure, but I believe the Supreme Court protected the "right" to choose under the 14th amendment.


----------



## rustyhart (Feb 20, 2014)

COArrow said:


> I will have to back to look for sure, but I believe the Supreme Court protected the "right" to choose under the 14th amendment.


Are you referring to Roe v. Wade?


----------



## COArrow (Nov 24, 2013)

rustyhart said:


> Are you referring to Roe v. Wade?


That is the base case, but there are others I just haven't looked into it since college. Either way, no need to get side tracked. Until abortion is illegal you are no different than those outside of the dentist office. Enjoyed the discussion, have a good night.


----------



## palmatedbuck04 (Nov 26, 2006)

There are way more important things that we should be comcerned about.a Lion should never headline social media or the news when we have this going on


----------



## turkeyhunter60 (Apr 19, 2010)

That's true Palm..


----------



## palmatedbuck04 (Nov 26, 2006)

turkeyhunter60 said:


> That's true Palm..


Id like to see Jommy Kimmel cry on his show over something like this


----------



## Pcappy08 (Feb 2, 2014)

I wish people were this upset and outraged over the four marines that were murdered because they couldn't protect themselves on an active duty base...people in this country are way out of control and have their priorities way twisted IMHO.


----------



## Stackframe (Jun 15, 2015)

I live in Africa and I do hunt ethically. This is how I understand it happened. This lion lived in a Animal Park where people came to view the lions in their natural habitat. The lions became used to having people around and percieved them as non threatening. It thus became a "tame" lion. It was collared (nobody could miss that) and as with Adolf and Leonardo other collared lions in Namibia was lured off the Park to be hunted. Then shot with a crossbow and tracked while it suffered for nearly two days.Eventually killed by shooting it with a rifle. Now the problem part. Ethical hunters do not shoot collared animals. If this happens by mistake you need to contact the relevant authorities and face the music not leave the country and this was a well known and famous male in prime condition. We have hunted the lion to near extinction here because of their love for cattle and in some cases for humans (have a look at the movie "The Ghost and the Darkness" about the Tsavo maneaters) but they are magnificent animals and deserve our respect and a clean kill if it is necessary.


----------



## Darrens6601 (Jul 16, 2015)

pcappy08 said:


> i wish people were this upset and outraged over the four marines that were murdered because they couldn't protect themselves on an active duty base...people in this country are way out of control and have their priorities way twisted imho.


this!!!!!


----------



## palmatedbuck04 (Nov 26, 2006)

Stackframe said:


> I live in Africa and I do hunt ethically. This is how I understand it happened. This lion lived in a Animal Park where people came to view the lions in their natural habitat. The lions became used to having people around and percieved them as non threatening. It thus became a "tame" lion. It was collared (nobody could miss that) and as with Adolf and Leonardo other collared lions in Namibia was lured off the Park to be hunted. Then shot with a crossbow and tracked while it suffered for nearly two days.Eventually killed by shooting it with a rifle. Now the problem part. Ethic hunters do not shoot collared animals. If this happens by mistake you need to contact the relevant authorities and face the music not leave the country and this was a well known and famous male in prime condition. We have hunted the lion to near extinction here because of their love for cattle and in some cases for humans (have a look at the movie "The Ghost and the Darkness" about the Tsavo maneaters) but they are magnificent animals and deserve our respect and a clean kill if it is necessary.


Everyone sets out for a clean kill that is the goal of all hunters,unfortunately things happen and that is not always the outcome


----------



## 138104 (May 14, 2009)

Stackframe said:


> I live in Africa and I do hunt ethically. This is how I understand it happened. This lion lived in a Animal Park where people came to view the lions in their natural habitat. The lions became used to having people around and percieved them as non threatening. It thus became a "tame" lion. It was collared (nobody could miss that) and as with Adolf and Leonardo other collared lions in Namibia was lured off the Park to be hunted. Then shot with a crossbow and tracked while it suffered for nearly two days.Eventually killed by shooting it with a rifle. Now the problem part. Ethical hunters do not shoot collared animals. If this happens by mistake you need to contact the relevant authorities and face the music not leave the country and this was a well known and famous male in prime condition. We have hunted the lion to near extinction here because of their love for cattle and in some cases for humans (have a look at the movie "The Ghost and the Darkness" about the Tsavo maneaters) but they are magnificent animals and deserve our respect and a clean kill if it is necessary.


Was it illegal to shoot a collared lion? In PA, we can shoot game animals that are collared. There is even a reward if you turn the collar in.


----------



## Buck Up (Feb 15, 2013)

I've seen about 1000 pics of that damn lion and I've never seen a radio tracker on it. Where is it if its so easy to see?


----------



## COArrow (Nov 24, 2013)

Stackframe said:


> I live in Africa and I do hunt ethically. This is how I understand it happened. This lion lived in a Animal Park where people came to view the lions in their natural habitat. The lions became used to having people around and percieved them as non threatening. It thus became a "tame" lion. It was collared (nobody could miss that) and as with Adolf and Leonardo other collared lions in Namibia was lured off the Park to be hunted. Then shot with a crossbow and tracked while it suffered for nearly two days.Eventually killed by shooting it with a rifle. Now the problem part. Ethical hunters do not shoot collared animals. If this happens by mistake you need to contact the relevant authorities and face the music not leave the country and this was a well known and famous male in prime condition. We have hunted the lion to near extinction here because of their love for cattle and in some cases for humans (have a look at the movie "The Ghost and the Darkness" about the Tsavo maneaters) but they are magnificent animals and deserve our respect and a clean kill if it is necessary.



Thanks for adding a local perspective.


----------



## NCMFX (Oct 21, 2009)

I couldn't believe Fox News coverage of the story last night, thats the only news network I can watch and it was very disappointing, even giving the info for Jimmy Kimmels organization to donate money.


----------



## namozine (Mar 15, 2013)

Look at it this way guys...
Soon, some seasons will open, and what will become known as " The Poor Cecil " affair will be a distant memory...
At that time, the AT Sweet Sixteen Slumber Party Lynch Mob can get on with important work: the zenith, the pinnacle, the true highlight of their year, such as:

Demanding "hero" pics from lone hunters who don't carry a selfie stick into the woods with them as proof they killed the deer in the picture...

Criticizing and berating the shot placement and tracking tactics of inexperienced hunters who come to AT in a misguided and often futile attempt to get help...

Furiously typing "high-fence" every time a hunter who has forgotten more about deer than they will ever know...

And so on...


----------



## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

Fox is run for ratings, period.


----------



## COArrow (Nov 24, 2013)

namozine said:


> Look at it this way guys...
> Soon, some seasons will open, and what will become known as " The Poor Cecil " affair will be a distant memory...
> At that time, the AT Sweet Sixteen Slumber Party Lynch Mob can get on with important work: the zenith, the pinnacle, the true highlight of their year, such as:
> 
> ...


HaHa, so true.


----------



## nyturkeyduster (Aug 5, 2006)

namozine said:


> Look at it this way guys...
> Soon, some seasons will open, and what will become known as " The Poor Cecil " affair will be a distant memory...
> At that time, the AT Sweet Sixteen Slumber Party Lynch Mob can get on with important work: the zenith, the pinnacle, the true highlight of their year, such as:
> 
> ...


That's a great point.


----------



## palmatedbuck04 (Nov 26, 2006)

A lake county Ohio woman was murdered and another wounded on Monday by an illegal alien.this was 20 minutes from my house.The mexican had no,drivers license,birthcertificate,passport,green card no documentation what so ever.was picked up by police on july 7 in a suspicious vehicle (2.5 weeks before the murder) police called border patrol they said to turn him loose cuz he bad no warrants.this doesnt make headline news and isnt all over social media,but there is all this outrage over a stinkin lion halfway around the world....pathetic!


----------



## Ptoid (Mar 8, 2014)

To look at this positively its a great moment to educate about conservation. The haters probably have no idea about how tags are issued and or how their actions cause habitat loss


----------



## DougKMN (Nov 7, 2006)

The sick thing is if this had been a buck here in the states that was poached, many of you defending this poacher would be crying "light him up"....


----------



## hunterhewi (Jun 12, 2010)

DougKMN said:


> The sick thing is if this had been a buck here in the states that was poached, many of you defending this poacher would be crying "light him up"....


Poacher?? You are merely speculating and nothing more. Your true ignorance is shining through


----------



## DougKMN (Nov 7, 2006)

hunterhewi said:


> Poacher?? You are merely speculating and nothing more. Your true ignorance is shining through


Yes, poacher. Already has a recorded conviction for it, and even if he was unaware that the guides weren't leading a legal hunt, he still broke the law.


----------



## hunterhewi (Jun 12, 2010)

Thats a prior conviction. Which has absolutely no bearing on this case. If the guides did it illegally that is not on him.


----------



## PutnamCountyHunter (Aug 22, 2011)

Where is the massive public outrage for the sick doctors and executives at Planned Parenthood?!


----------



## adr1601 (Oct 15, 2012)

DougKMN said:


> The sick thing is if this had been a buck here in the states that was poached, many of you defending this poacher would be crying "light him up"....


You know your right on that one.


----------



## DougKMN (Nov 7, 2006)

hunterhewi said:


> Thats a prior conviction. Which has absolutely no bearing on this case. If the guides did it illegally that is not on him.


I disagree. It's his responsibility as the Hunter to ensure he knows the laws, and that they are followed.


----------



## DougKMN (Nov 7, 2006)

HNTRDAN said:


> Where is the massive public outrage for the sick doctors and executives at Planned Parenthood?!


Stay on topic or get out.


----------



## hunterhewi (Jun 12, 2010)

DougKMN said:


> I disagree. It's his responsibility as the Hunter to ensure he knows the laws, and that they are followed.


So your saying you have neve broken a single law while hunting? If you say no then im going to call you a liar. I would bet that about every hunter out there has broken some sort of miniscule law that they failed to read up on. By your definition we are all just poachers. Keep on donating to PETA, they love guys like you


----------



## DougKMN (Nov 7, 2006)

hunterhewi said:


> So your saying you have neve broken a single law while hunting? If you say no then im going to call you a liar. I would bet that about every hunter out there has broken some sort of miniscule law that they failed to read up on. By your definition we are all just poachers. Keep on donating to PETA, they love guys like you


Not that I'm aware of.

Planning your next poaching outing? The way you defend this poacher, the only conclusion I can make its you must be a poacher as well.


----------



## hunterhewi (Jun 12, 2010)

You just proved my point. You are ignorant to the highest level. 

"Not that i know of" if he didnt know it then how can you ridicule him? My next poaching outing huh? You should really stop while anyone reading still thinks you have any intelligence


----------



## Cold Weather (Dec 17, 2008)

hunterhewi said:


> So your saying you have neve broken a single law while hunting? If you say no then im going to call you a liar. I would bet that about every hunter out there has broken some sort of miniscule law that they failed to read up on. By your definition we are all just poachers. Keep on donating to PETA, they love guys like you


I read the laws an abide totally. Never have broken a game law in 30 plus years hunting. It's not hard to do.


----------



## COArrow (Nov 24, 2013)

HNTRDAN said:


> Where is the massive public outrage for the sick doctors and executives at Planned Parenthood?!


Did you research the recent stories or are you just following the media frenzy?


----------



## BP1992 (Dec 24, 2010)

Idiot treehuggers


----------



## hunterhewi (Jun 12, 2010)

Cold Weather said:


> I read the laws an abide totally. Never have broken a game law in 30 plus years hunting. It's not hard to do.


Anyone can say what they want on the internet. Who is to really know.


----------



## highoctane (Dec 8, 2008)

Stay on topic in AT... You know there's more topic turns in AT that a rabbit trying to elude a pack of beagles..


----------



## heath_4503 (Jan 27, 2010)

Quote Originally Posted by I like Meat View Post
Piss on that damn lion........its just an animal...... Babies are being pulled out of their mothers womb, skull's crushed and their body parts sold by nazi like clowns from planned parenthood, Isis is cutting off heads of hundreds of Christians, Boko Harum is kidnapping young girls and selling them on the black market, O'dipwad makes sure Iran will get nukes....and this lion CRAP is the headlines...WE ARE SO SCREWED!!



rustyhart said:


> I don't usually agree with you, but I do here. Especially about planned parenthood.


Just an animal. Totally agree.


----------



## heath_4503 (Jan 27, 2010)

zap said:


> a family grieves for the lion......outside the dentist office..


well she looks good!


----------



## rustyhart (Feb 20, 2014)

Cold Weather said:


> I read the laws an abide totally. Never have broken a game law in 30 plus years hunting. It's not hard to do.


I find that very hard to believe.


----------



## DougKMN (Nov 7, 2006)

Cold Weather said:


> I read the laws an abide totally. Never have broken a game law in 30 plus years hunting. It's not hard to do.


Same here. It really doesn't take long to inform oneself of the rules and regulations of the area you intend to hunt. Ignorance is not an excuse.


----------



## Chris1ny (Oct 23, 2006)

until more info comes out, hunter innocent, guides and property owner guilty

media 100% guilty!


----------



## hedp (Dec 20, 2011)

Already a thread here:


http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2710042


----------



## hunterhewi (Jun 12, 2010)

Chris1ny said:


> until more info comes out, hunter innocent, guides and property owner guilty
> 
> media 100% guilty!


Exactly. As it should be with anyone charged with any crime.


----------



## ryans127 (Nov 14, 2014)

i like meat said:


> piss on that damn lion........its just an animal...... Babies are being pulled out of their mothers womb, skull's crushed and their body parts sold by nazi like clowns from planned parenthood, isis is cutting off heads of hundreds of christians, boko harum is kidnapping young girls and selling them on the black market, o'dipwad makes sure iran will get nukes....and this lion crap is the headlines...we are so screwed!!


 yep!


----------



## bgusty (Aug 6, 2014)

I drove past the guys dental place yesterday on my way to play volleyball. Didn't realize what was going on at first, just saw a bunch of news vans and cop cars. Thought maybe there was a murder or something. Nope. Just a bunch of crazies picketing the guys dental practice. I guarantee 99% of the people standing there had never heard of Cecil the lion before that. I still have no idea how this blew up to the point that Jimmy Kimmel is choking up about it, a German UN ambassador is talking about it to the news, and the guy has to close his dental practice for the time being. Holy ****.. these people. Get a grip on reality. No lion is worth that much hate for the guy.


----------



## insanehunter11 (Mar 8, 2013)

Perry24 said:


> Was it illegal to shoot a collared lion? In PA, we can shoot game animals that are collared. There is even a reward if you turn the collar in.


i dont think deer in pa are on the endanger list, and tame to people presence


----------



## Tripper (Oct 16, 2014)

You Sir have said it all right there...These people demonstrate, complain, and then stop at Steak and Shake and devour cheeseburgers made from our know what animal or animals and go on with their day. Hypocrisy at the highest level. To many people think Disney movies are real...Buy ammo my friends, buy ammo.... 



I like Meat said:


> Piss on that damn lion........its just an animal...... Babies are being pulled out of their mothers womb, skull's crushed and their body parts sold by nazi like clowns from planned parenthood, Isis is cutting off heads of hundreds of Christians, Boko Harum is kidnapping young girls and selling them on the black market, O'dipwad makes sure Iran will get nukes....and this lion CRAP is the headlines...WE ARE SO SCREWED!!


----------



## Muzzy61 (Oct 22, 2007)

These idoits don't even realize that old Cecil boy would eat all these nut jobs and there childern giving the chance.


----------



## pope125 (Dec 11, 2013)

like anything the media blowing the hole thing out of proportion .


----------



## hunterhewi (Jun 12, 2010)

Exactly. People forget man is the apex predator. We are the top of the food chain. Thus is the circle of life, they need to get over it


----------



## 138104 (May 14, 2009)

insanehunter11 said:


> i dont think deer in pa are on the endanger list, and tame to people presence


I was just curious if it was legal or not. While this hunter will never win in the court of public opinion, I am just reading conflicting info on whether or not it was legal.


----------



## MW66 (Dec 19, 2008)

I don't know whether he is guilty of breaking the law or even a code of ethics since I don't think anyone knows all of the facts of this event. However, I truly don't understand how people can vilify and show such outward hate towards another human being while feeling that they are doing a good deed in the name of an animal, popularized or not. Getting your children to partake when there is no way they can have their own unbiased logical opinion is pathetic to me.


----------



## nicko (Feb 17, 2006)

Perry24 said:


> I was just curious if it was legal or not. While this hunter will never win in the court of public opinion, I am just reading conflicting info on whether or not it was legal.


I don't think we'll ever know. Too many slanted news agencies with too many agendas. Getting factual based news anymore is like trying to catch a fart.


----------



## DougKMN (Nov 7, 2006)

Perry24 said:


> I was just curious if it was legal or not. While this hunter will never win in the court of public opinion, I am just reading conflicting info on whether or not it was legal.


Supposedly it is not, and "Cecil" was a protected animal.

The lion was left skinned and headless on the outskirts of the national park. Kind of questionable actions there. 

They supposedly tried to destroy the tracking collar. Not an action that one would take if this was a legal kill.

Palmer lied to a federal agent about the killing of a bear. His record speaks against him.

It's the hunters responsibility to ensure he follows the laws, guided or not.


----------



## kenny_TNT_tv (Dec 22, 2010)

Hell, who ever said Zimbabwe even has a code of ethics? This may just be normal practice over there. THEY ARENT AMERICANS and shouldn't assume they have the same game laws as we do here. It could be a perfectly normal practice to bait animals out of a preserve. Or to shoot a tame animal. I mean, they do much worse things to humans in Africa. Just because we ALL do the right thing ALL the time doesn't mean that's how they do things in that country. I don't see anything the dentist did wrong besides trusting his guide at the moment.


----------



## bigvalleyboy (Mar 26, 2015)

This lion hunt is Ted Nugent approved! :thumbs_up:thumbs_up:thumbs_up


----------



## Cjclemens (Aug 20, 2013)

I'm not 100% certain there's enough proof to say that this guy is guilty of something or not. Questionable judgement? Definitely. However, even if he did break the law knowingly(not saying he did or didn't, just a big IF), does he really deserve to have his life and livelihood ruined? Does he really deserve the threats and harassment? Obviously poachers should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. I can agree with fines, community service, revoked hunting privileges, even jail time for repeat offenders - whatever the LAW says is appropriate, but what the media and the public has done to the guy is way over the line and totally inexcusable, guilty or not.


----------



## H20fwler (Apr 1, 2014)

heath_4503 said:


> Quote Originally Posted by I like Meat View Post
> Piss on that damn lion........its just an animal...... Babies are being pulled out of their mothers womb, skull's crushed and their body parts sold by nazi like clowns from planned parenthood, Isis is cutting off heads of hundreds of Christians, Boko Harum is kidnapping young girls and selling them on the black market, O'dipwad makes sure Iran will get nukes....and this lion CRAP is the headlines...WE ARE SO SCREWED!!
> 
> 
> ...


I agree 100%

This lion malarkey is such a non issue when put in that perspective. Totally shows why this country is so screwed up right now and going in the twisted direction it is.


----------



## Okie X (Dec 3, 2005)

It IS LEGAL to shoot collared Cecils.


----------



## Red Sparky (Dec 24, 2013)

The fact the lion was killed does not make a difference to me. I personally don't hunt lions, african or mountain. I am not saying lion hunting is wrong. To me, the way the lion was killed matters. In my opinion that is what makes it wrong. The media is going to report what the media wants to report the way they want to report it. If the hunter broke any laws I will not support the killing of this lion. The hunter is the one to ultimately blame as it was his choice to shoot or not to. The guide could be saying to shoot, whether it be a lion hunt or an elk hunt, but the hunter has to be the final decision. We as hunters either need to support or condone this based on the true actual facts. I am making my decision when I hear, as Paul Harvey use to say, the rest of the story.


----------



## Ptoid (Mar 8, 2014)

DougKMN said:


> Not that I'm aware of.
> 
> Planning your next poaching outing? The way you defend this poacher, the only conclusion I can make its you must be a poacher as well.


Really since when do we as a community defend a poacher? He is being charged, it was illegal. Screw him!!! African lions are making the endangered list. And worst of all, i read that he used a crossbow


----------



## bigvalleyboy (Mar 26, 2015)

kenny_TNT_tv said:


> Hell, who ever said Zimbabwe even has a code of ethics? This may just be normal practice over there. THEY ARENT AMERICANS and shouldn't assume they have the same game laws as we do here. It could be a perfectly normal practice to bait animals out of a preserve. Or to shoot a tame animal.


Guess you missed the part about two people who assisted with the hunt (one being the PH) being charged for poaching.


----------



## bigvalleyboy (Mar 26, 2015)

Red Sparky said:


> The fact the lion was killed does not make a difference to me. I personally don't hunt lions, african or mountain. I am not saying lion hunting is wrong. To me, the way the lion was killed matters. In my opinion that is what makes it wrong. The media is going to report what the media wants to report the way they want to report it. If the hunter broke any laws I will not support the killing of this lion. The hunter is the one to ultimately blame as it was his choice to shoot or not to. The guide could be saying to shoot, whether it be a lion hunt or an elk hunt, but the hunter has to be the final decision. We as hunters either need to support or condone this based on the true actual facts. I am making my decision when I hear, as Paul Harvey use to say, the rest of the story.


How the F dare you come around here making all that sense!


----------



## kenny_TNT_tv (Dec 22, 2010)

Well my post was about ethics of the hunter. The fact they did not have a lion permit could have been unknown to the shooter.


----------



## concepthomes1 (Jul 2, 2012)

kenny_TNT_tv said:


> Well my post was about ethics of the hunter. The fact they did not have a lion permit could have been unknown to the shooter.


Exactly.
Man paid over 50k for the hunt; he most likely trusted that his outfitter was holding up his end of the agreement and filing the proper paperwork for the hunt.

I'd like to know how many of these self-righteous people on here would book a hunt some place and then the first thing they do when they get to camp is go up to the manager or property owner and ask "Hey, you made sure you bought my kill tags and permit, didn't you?"

NO ONE would do that if they respected the outfitter and guide or manager.


----------



## H20fwler (Apr 1, 2014)

bigvalleyboy said:


> Guess you missed the part about two people who assisted with the hunt (one being the PH) being charged for poaching.


Guess you missed the part about Zimbabwe being one of the most politically corrupt countries in the world and the antis just making crap up...

but by all means do carry on


----------



## bigvalleyboy (Mar 26, 2015)

kenny_TNT_tv said:


> Well my post was about ethics of the hunter. The fact they did not have a lion permit could have been unknown to the shooter.


Your entire post was factually incorrect.


----------



## bigvalleyboy (Mar 26, 2015)

H20fwler said:


> Guess you missed the part about Zimbabwe being one of the most politically corrupt countries in the world and the antis just making crap up...
> 
> but by all means do carry on


Hahaha, the gov is corrupt so do what you want I guess. So how does that theory apply to hunting in the US?


----------



## kenny_TNT_tv (Dec 22, 2010)

What facts did I actually state in my post? It was regarding what ifs mostly .


----------



## Chris1ny (Oct 23, 2006)

Unless the lion is fenced in, the fault is Zimbabwe. For allowing lion hunting next the the preserve in the first place. Taking the money for "licensing" then crying wolf.


----------



## bigvalleyboy (Mar 26, 2015)

kenny_TNT_tv said:


> What facts did I actually state in my post? It was regarding what ifs mostly .


Mostly


----------



## MN Doe Hunter (Dec 22, 2003)

concepthomes1 said:


> Exactly.
> Man paid over 50k for the hunt; he most likely trusted that his outfitter was holding up his end of the agreement and filing the proper paperwork for the hunt.
> 
> I'd like to know how many of these self-righteous people on here would book a hunt some place and then the first thing they do when they get to camp is go up to the manager or property owner and ask "Hey, you made sure you bought my kill tags and permit, didn't you?"
> ...


BINGO. I've been on a few guided hunts myself. The last thing I'm going to ask the guide, or the owner of the operation, is "hey, are you sure you have permission to have us hunt here? If so, can you please show me your signed lease agreements?"


----------



## Okie X (Dec 3, 2005)

Chris1ny said:


> Unless the lion is fenced in, the fault is Zimbabwe. For allowing lion hunting next the the preserve in the first place. Taking the money for "licensing" then crying wolf.


If they didn't allow hunting next to the preserve then that would be what?....more preserve?


----------



## H20fwler (Apr 1, 2014)

bigvalleyboy said:


> Hahaha, the gov is corrupt so do what you want I guess.


Please point out where I said any of that




bigvalleyboy said:


> So how does that theory apply to hunting in the US?


What? You said two were "allegedly" charged for poaching in Zimbabwe right? A country that I correctly pointed out was one of the most politically corrupt in the world...where the heck did you get anything about hunting in the US from that?


----------



## daveinohio (Jan 6, 2010)

Ptoid said:


> Really since when do we as a community defend a poacher? He is being charged, it was illegal. Screw him!!! African lions are making the endangered list. And worst of all, i read that he used a crossbow


He has not been charged. No one has identified a "crime" that he committed. 

Lions are not endangered. 

He used a compound bow. 

You didn't misspell any words.


----------



## heath_4503 (Jan 27, 2010)

Okie X said:


> It IS LEGAL to shoot collared Cecils.



HAHAHA.:set1_rolf2::set1_punch:


----------



## bigvalleyboy (Mar 26, 2015)

H20fwler said:


> Please point out where I said any of that
> 
> 
> 
> ...


When I make a post stating that two people in the hunting party were charged with poaching and you make a point to reply to it with a statement that the gov is corrupt I think any reasonable person would assume that your making an excuse. If not, what was the point of you quoting me to begin with?

Since you can't process my comment regarding the US. If having a corrupt gov is a justification to ignore the laws there, I don't see how the current group of scumbags in DC doesn't give us free reign to slaughter whatever the hell we want.


----------



## bigvalleyboy (Mar 26, 2015)

MN Doe Hunter said:


> BINGO. I've been on a few guided hunts myself. The last thing I'm going to ask the guide, or the owner of the operation, is "hey, are you sure you have permission to have us hunt here? If so, can you please show me your signed lease agreements?"


Would you ask any questions when it was time to remove and destroy the collar off of an animal that you lured out of a game preserve or would that just seem pretty legit?


----------



## Chris1ny (Oct 23, 2006)

Okie X said:


> If they didn't allow hunting next to the preserve then that would be what?....more preserve?


What is your point? Your reply does not make any sense.


----------



## Ptoid (Mar 8, 2014)

daveinohio said:


> He has not been charged. No one has identified a "crime" that he committed.
> 
> Lions are not endangered.
> 
> ...


African lions are inthe process of becoming endangered. All the headlines have him being charged this morning. Oh yeah and shootinga collared lion.

New york times said a crossbow i thought but may have misread. 

Glad your not misspelling either

Black eye to us all.


----------



## bigvalleyboy (Mar 26, 2015)

Chris1ny said:


> Unless the lion is fenced in, the fault is Zimbabwe. For allowing lion hunting next the the preserve in the first place. Taking the money for "licensing" then crying wolf.


So if someone opened or started a preserve bordering your property it would be reasonable to tell you that you can no longer hunt your place?


----------



## bigvalleyboy (Mar 26, 2015)

Once he's charged everyone is just gonna have to make up some new excuses for his behavior. This is humorous. 

Let it have been a buck that someone on here had on cam and AT would've wanted him burned at the stake.


----------



## Okie X (Dec 3, 2005)

Chris1ny said:


> What is your point? Your reply does not make any sense.


You a said it was Zims' fault for allowing hunting next to the preserve. 

Your post doesn't make any sense. If you don't allow hunting next to the preserve what do you have? MORE PRESERVE.


----------



## Chris1ny (Oct 23, 2006)

bigvalleyboy said:


> So if someone opened or started a preserve bordering your property it would be reasonable to tell you that you can no longer hunt your place?


Good questions, maybe the Government of Zimbabwe can answer you.


----------



## hunterhewi (Jun 12, 2010)

bigvalleyboy said:


> Once he's charged everyone is just gonna have to make up some new excuses for his behavior. This is humorous.
> 
> Let it have been a buck that someone on here had on cam and AT would've wanted him burned at the stake.


You do know the difference between charged and convicted do you not?


----------



## Chris1ny (Oct 23, 2006)

Okie X said:


> You a said it was Zims' fault for allowing hunting next to the preserve.
> 
> Your post doesn't make any sense. If you don't allow hunting next to the preserve what do you have? MORE PRESERVE.


Maybe they shouldn't allow lion hunting in the first place. Since Zimbabwe allows lion hunting next to the preserve, then what do they expect is going happen. Lions that leaves the preserves will be legally hunted.


----------



## hunterhewi (Jun 12, 2010)

Ptoid said:


> African lions are inthe process of becoming endangered. All the headlines have him being charged this morning. Oh yeah and shootinga collared lion.
> 
> New york times said a crossbow i thought but may have misread.
> 
> ...


Shooting a collared lion is no different than killing a collared mountain lion or deer here in the states. Perfectly legal which has no bearing on anything. All the headlines?? So you believe everything the liberal lefty media says?


----------



## namozine (Mar 15, 2013)

It appears now that Team Obama is on the case...
The USFWS will be conducting an investigation...


----------



## callmin (Apr 4, 2007)

namozine said:


> It appears now that Team Obama is on the case...
> The USFWS will be conducting an investigation...


I just read this, that the WH is looking into it. Boy what a dud we have in Washington, won't fix the things that need fixing but will get involved in something like this. It is a animal for crying out loud. There was just an illegal alien in Cleveland that killed a woman, shot another woman and tried to rape is 14 yr old niece. He was stopped 3 weeks prior on a separate incident and could not produce any identification. The cops called the immigration office and they said let him go. I didn't read anything in the national paper about that.


----------



## bigvalleyboy (Mar 26, 2015)

hunterhewi said:


> You do know the difference between charged and convicted do you not?


Yep, do you take such a strong stance for all the murderers of the world who are only "charged" as well or just poachers? Dylan Roof cool with you, or you just like to pick and choose your crimes?


----------



## bigvalleyboy (Mar 26, 2015)

namozine said:


> It appears now that Team Obama is on the case...
> The USFWS will be conducting an investigation...


That's actual kinda funny, or sad, idk.

#lionslivesmatter


----------



## BigDeer (Aug 9, 2005)

What could the USFWS charge him with?


----------



## hunterhewi (Jun 12, 2010)

bigvalleyboy said:


> Yep, do you take such a strong stance for all the murderers of the world who are only "charged" as well or just poachers? Dylan Roof cool with you, or you just like to pick and choose your crimes?


Do you understand how big a DB you make yourself look like? You must be one of them women on the talk shows blabbering about how that lion was murdered. You are an imbicile, plain and simple. Anyone that can compare the killing of a lion to humans that are being murdered is ****ed up in the head. Even if he did "poach" the lion he dont deserve what you idiot lefties are saying. Sure prosecute him if found guilty. If it were up to me it would be the death penalty for every convicted murderer with hard evidence.


----------



## bigvalleyboy (Mar 26, 2015)

hunterhewi said:


> Shooting a collared lion is no different than killing a collared mountain lion or deer here in the states. Perfectly legal which has no bearing on anything. All the headlines?? So you believe everything the liberal lefty media says?


Is removing and destroying the collar legal in both places as well?


----------



## kspseshooter (Aug 6, 2010)

If the dentist was African this would prob be a non issue. Just Africans doing what they do[emoji779]️


----------



## Jeremy421 (Oct 30, 2013)

Folks who listen to the news and think that it is the correct and full story are exactly the people they are trying to reach and get all worked up..........for the rest of us. This is the good ol u s of a and no one will give a $hi+ in two week


----------



## hunterhewi (Jun 12, 2010)

bigvalleyboy said:


> Is removing and destroying the collar legal in both places as well?


You dont have to turn the collar in here in kansas. You can upon your own will


----------



## bigvalleyboy (Mar 26, 2015)

hunterhewi said:


> Do you understand how big a DB you make yourself look like? You must be one of them women on the talk shows blabbering about how that lion was murdered. You are an imbicile, plain and simple. Anyone that can compare the killing of a lion to humans that are being murdered is ****ed up in the head. Even if he did "poach" the lion he dont deserve what you idiot lefties are saying. Sure prosecute him if found guilty. If it were up to me it would be the death penalty for every convicted murderer with hard evidence.


Typical liberal, when facts get in the way just call people names and try to demean them.


----------



## H20fwler (Apr 1, 2014)

bigvalleyboy said:


> When I make a post stating that two people in the hunting party were charged with poaching and you make a point to reply to it with a statement that the gov is corrupt I think any reasonable person would assume that your making an excuse. If not, what was the point of you quoting me to begin with?


You know what they say about assuming....

it makes YOU look stupid!

Excuse nothing, the gov there is corrupt... fact, it's half way around the world how do you know for a fact they were really charged? Because the antis blogged it and the liberal media spun it? I heard one of your TWO " alleged poachers"is related to someone in the zim gov and nothing will ever come of it? True? I don't know or really care but I'm not going to pass judgment on some dentists hunter I don't know or really know the TRUE facts about what happened.
Like I've said before I'm more worried about the baby killing scumbags here at home and terrorist scumbags hurting Americans that travel than getting worked up over a lion that has absolutely nothing to with me.



bigvalleyboy said:


> Since you can't process my comment regarding the US. If having a corrupt gov is a justification to ignore the laws there, I don't see how the current group of scumbags in DC doesn't give us free reign to slaughter whatever the hell we want.


There's nothing to process. You started blathering about hunting in the US which had nothing to do with shooting some worn out old lion in Africa. Please make a point if that is what you are trying to do.


----------



## Mr. Man (Sep 19, 2011)

Jeremy421 said:


> Folks who listen to the news and think that it is the correct and full story are exactly the people they are trying to reach and get all worked up..........for the rest of us. This is the good ol u s of a and no one will give a $hi+ in two week


Yep. Couldn't have happened at a better time for Hulk Hogan. It's just the flavor of the week, and it'll fade into obscurity in a week or two. Then you'll only hear about it again at the end of the year on the top stories of the year segment.


----------



## pope125 (Dec 11, 2013)

namozine said:


> It appears now that Team Obama is on the case...
> The USFWS will be conducting an investigation...


Your kidding???


----------



## aread (Dec 25, 2009)

BigDeer said:


> What could the USFWS charge him with?


They found a way to reach into Switzerland and charge the FIFA guys. :noidea:


----------



## hunterhewi (Jun 12, 2010)

bigvalleyboy said:


> Typical liberal, when facts get in the way just call people names and try to demean them.


Liberal? Not hardly. I dont even think you know what a liberal is. Fact?? You have NONE


----------



## bigvalleyboy (Mar 26, 2015)

hunterhewi said:


> Liberal? Not hardly. I dont even think you know what a liberal is. Fact?? You have NONE


Lol, ok Francis.


----------



## BigDeer (Aug 9, 2005)

aread said:


> They found a way to reach into Switzerland and charge the FIFA guys. :noidea:


Dude is screwed and all he did wrong was follow the guides lead.


----------



## bigvalleyboy (Mar 26, 2015)

H20fwler said:


> You know what they say about assuming....
> 
> it makes YOU look stupid!
> 
> ...


If my assumption was incorrect please explain why you initially responded and quoted me when my post wasn't directed at you in the first place?


----------



## Elvis_Is_Dead (Nov 25, 2009)

I want to invite anyone who wants to come out to our state and shoot Mtn. Lions. It's only $15 for out of state tags. 
Please come and help us rid ourselves of the big varmints, and give Arnold the Antelope, Donald the Deer, and Elvis the Elk a break.

(P.S. No this is not spam... but a plea of desparation. :teeth


----------



## Ptoid (Mar 8, 2014)

hunterhewi said:


> Shooting a collared lion is no different than killing a collared mountain lion or deer here in the states. Perfectly legal which has no bearing on anything. All the headlines?? So you believe everything the liberal lefty media says?


African lionsbeing in decline and hunted right next to preserve with a collar on= sketchy. Yes multiple headlines from reputable sources is worth believing.

Im not going to blindly support this dude because hes a bowhunter. If they investigate it and hes catching heat because hes a hunter than different story. I support hunters not poachers. 

Our media isnt particularly liberal, as a group they have just done a lousy job andwe have fed into it. Anchorman 2 outlines it pretty well. Cable news is a laughable joke. 

As many have stated this will be a thing until the next news cycle. The trivialization of real news is a problem. Tv shows are not news. Kardashivia is not news. The way this will be dealt with is a problem.


----------



## BigDeer (Aug 9, 2005)

He had a legal license correct? Who issued that license on the 'endangered/almost endangered' lion?


----------



## Elvis_Is_Dead (Nov 25, 2009)

BigDeer said:


> He had a legal license correct? Who issued that license on the 'endangered/almost endangered' lion?


Well if you check what is the actual facts instead of media hype... directly from Zimbabwe... the actual shooter isn't responsible... the landowner, and the Prof. Hunters are. They conspired to shoot a lion on land that didn't have a lion quota. As far as I know that's it. They would have difficulty prosecuting the dentist, although they might prevent him from hunting there again... or even entering the country.

http://www.zimparks.org/index.php/m...-gwayi-conservancy-by-bushman-safaris-profess



> JOINT PRESS STATEMENT BY ZIMBABWE PARKS AND WILDLIFE MANAGEMENT AUTHORITY AND SAFARI OPERATORS ASSOCIATION OF ZIMBABWE ON THE ILLEGAL HUNT OF A COLLARED LION AT ANTOINETTE FARM, HWANGE DISTRICT ON 1 JULY 2015 IN GWAYI CONSERVANCY BY BUSHMAN SAFARIS PROFESSIONAL HUNTER, THEO BRONKHORST.
> 
> Theo Bronchorst, a professional hunter with Bushman Safaris is facing criminal charges (VIC FALLS Police CR 27/07/2015) for allegedly killing a collared lion on Antoinette farm in Gwayi Conservancy, Hwange district on 1 July 2015. The lion named ‘Cecil’ was well known and regularly sighted by tourists in the Main camp area of Hwange National Park. It is alleged that the hunter connived with the Antoinette land owner, Mr. Honest Trymore Ndlovu to kill the lion. Ongoing investigations to date, suggest that the killing of the lion was illegal since the land owner was not allocated a lion on his hunting quota for 2015. Therefore, all persons implicated in this case are due to appear in court facing poaching charges.
> 
> ...


----------



## Elvis_Is_Dead (Nov 25, 2009)

:mg: Can you imagine what would have happened if Barrack Hussein Obama's name had been *Mr. Honest Trymore Ndlovu* instead?

I doubt he would be potus. :teeth:


----------



## namozine (Mar 15, 2013)

pope125 said:


> Your kidding???


Absolutely not ! Just saw it a few minutes ago..


----------



## Bullhound (Feb 5, 2004)

Stackframe said:


> I live in Africa and I do hunt ethically. This is how I understand it happened. This lion lived in a Animal Park where people came to view the lions in their natural habitat. The lions became used to having people around and percieved them as non threatening. It thus became a "tame" lion. It was collared (nobody could miss that) and as with Adolf and Leonardo other collared lions in Namibia was lured off the Park to be hunted. Then shot with a crossbow and tracked while it suffered for nearly two days.Eventually killed by shooting it with a rifle. Now the problem part. Ethical hunters do not shoot collared animals. If this happens by mistake you need to contact the relevant authorities and face the music not leave the country and this was a well known and famous male in prime condition. We have hunted the lion to near extinction here because of their love for cattle and in some cases for humans (have a look at the movie "The Ghost and the Darkness" about the Tsavo maneaters) but they are magnificent animals and deserve our respect and a clean kill if it is necessary.


you sir are full of @hit!! back to the regular programming.........................


----------



## 3dn4jc (Jun 25, 2007)

I like Meat said:


> Piss on that damn lion........its just an animal...... Babies are being pulled out of their mothers womb, skull's crushed and their body parts sold by nazi like clowns from planned parenthood, Isis is cutting off heads of hundreds of Christians, Boko Harum is kidnapping young girls and selling them on the black market, O'dipwad makes sure Iran will get nukes....and this lion CRAP is the headlines...WE ARE SO SCREWED!!


What He said.


----------



## H20fwler (Apr 1, 2014)

bigvalleyboy said:


> If my assumption was incorrect please explain why you initially responded and quoted me when my post wasn't directed at you in the first place?


Because we really don't know if it's true. This whole thing has been blown so far out of whack and so many half truths and speculation and outright lies told about some poor American dentist that was just trying to have a hunting vacation that how can you can you not feel sorry for the guy.
Time will tell what the truth is, no use getting worked up or forming hard opinions about it now.


----------



## Bullhound (Feb 5, 2004)

palmatedbuck04 said:


> A lake county Ohio woman was murdered and another wounded on Monday by an illegal alien.this was 20 minutes from my house.The mexican had no,drivers license,birthcertificate,passport,green card no documentation what so ever.was picked up by police on july 7 in a suspicious vehicle (2.5 weeks before the murder) police called border patrol they said to turn him loose cuz he bad no warrants.this doesnt make headline news and isnt all over social media,but there is all this outrage over a stinkin lion halfway around the world....pathetic!


now that turns my stomach......... this country is really losing its direction in a hurry.


----------



## namozine (Mar 15, 2013)

BigDeer said:


> What could the USFWS charge him with?


That's beside the point...
All that matters to these mindless, liberal, Twitter-twits is that Barack the Beloved is out to avenge poor Cecil !!!


----------



## Bullhound (Feb 5, 2004)

namozine said:


> That's beside the point...
> All that matters to these mindless, liberal, Twitter-twits is that *Barack the Beloved* is out to avenge poor Cecil !!!


That clown would likely get his ass eaten......


----------



## bigvalleyboy (Mar 26, 2015)

H20fwler said:


> Because we really don't know if it's true. This whole thing has been blown so far out of whack and so many half truths and speculation and outright lies told about some poor American dentist that was just trying to have a hunting vacation that how can you can you not feel sorry for the guy.
> Time will tell what the truth is, no use getting worked up or forming hard opinions about it now.



The post you quoted said nothing about the hunter. I stated that two people in his hunting party including the PH have been charged. You replied that the gov was corrupt. A reasonable person would believe that your comment was a justification. You say it wasn't and when I ask you to then clarify what exactly you meant you come back and say it's all just blown out of proportion. 

Your just going in circles trying to make excuses for "some poor dentist". Some poor dentist that already has a history of poaching here in the US and is spreading his nugent skills internationally. 

Now go ahead and ignore all the points I made in the top of this post and comment on the second half.


----------



## Etheis (Sep 28, 2013)

There's so much BS surrounding this story, we will never hear the true story from our untruthful media. Honestly there's bigger stuff to worry about. Like our president giving money to Iran so they can wipe us off the face of the earth in a few years. Dentist killed a lion. Get over it, nothing you can do to bring it back.


----------



## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

(Fox)


"Laury Marshall Parramore, a spokeswoman for the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service told the Star Tribune the agency is deeply concerned about the incident.

“We are currently gathering facts about the issue and will assist Zimbabwe officials in whatever manner requested, she told the newspaper. “It is up to all of us — not just the people of Africa — to ensure that healthy, wild populations of animals continue to roam the savanna for generations to come.”

U.S. Rep. Betty McCollum, D-Minn., urged the agency and the Justice Department to investigate whether the killing violated any U.S. laws or regulations."


----------



## H20fwler (Apr 1, 2014)

bigvalleyboy said:


> The post you quoted said nothing about the hunter. I stated that two people in his hunting party including the PH have been charged. You replied that the gov was corrupt. A reasonable person would believe that your comment was a justification. You say it wasn't and when I ask you to then clarify what exactly you meant you come back and say it's all just blown out of proportion. .


First this thread is about the "hunter" now isn't it? (rhetorical) And I specifically addressed that the two PH lived in an area that is extremely politically corrupt and even though you can't seem to grasp it , it is germane to this discussion. The reason being info coming out of the area is more than likely tainted and if money is involved that will be the deciding factor in the end. And all you have done is chase your tail spouting hearsay and half truths through this whole thread. If that doesn't "clarify" it for you I don't know how to help you.



bigvalleyboy said:


> Your just going in circles trying to make excuses for "some poor dentist". Some poor dentist that already has a history of poaching here in the US and is spreading his nugent skills internationally. .


I'm the one going in circles...that is laughable! Nice that you keep such an open mind for a fellow hunter and find out all the real facts before hanging him..not.



bigvalleyboy said:


> Now go ahead and ignore all the points I made in the top of this post and comment on the second half.


I guess you were wrong on that too..and your points were weak.


----------



## bigvalleyboy (Mar 26, 2015)

H20fwler said:


> First this thread is about the "hunter" now isn't it? (rhetorical) And I specifically addressed that the two PH lived in an area that is extremely politically corrupt and even though you can't seem to grasp it , it is germane to this discussion. The reason being info coming out of the area is more than likely tainted and if money is involved that will be the deciding factor in the end. And all you have done is chase your tail spouting hearsay and half truths through this whole thread. If that doesn't "clarify" it for you I don't know how to help you.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


He's not a fellow hunter he's a poacher and admittedly lied to a federal agent about it. We'll see how things play out for your hero. But then you always just have the corrupt gov excuse to fall back on so it really doesn't matter. He could have shot that Lion in the middle of a zoo and it wouldn't matter to some of you guys.


----------



## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

Africa is a zoo....watch the news.


----------



## H20fwler (Apr 1, 2014)

bigvalleyboy said:


> He's not a fellow hunter he's a poacher and admittedly lied to a federal agent about it. We'll see how things play out for your hero. But then you always just have the corrupt gov excuse to fall back on so it really doesn't matter. He could have shot that Lion in the middle of a zoo and it wouldn't matter to some of you guys.


My hero? Now you sound like a child.

You blather on like some far left liberal but I don't think you are one at all...and that is even worse.


----------



## bigvalleyboy (Mar 26, 2015)

H20fwler said:


> My hero? Now you sound like a child.
> 
> You blather on like some far left liberal but I don't think you are one at all...and that is even worse.


Yeah, your hero. 
You chide me for not keeping an open mind about a "fellow hunter". I despise anyone who sheds a negative light on this sport and I'll never stand up or defend somebody with a history of poaching.


----------



## KSQ2 (Oct 10, 2007)

Mark my words, there will be some stupid movie about Cecil.


----------



## H20fwler (Apr 1, 2014)

bigvalleyboy said:


> Yeah, your hero.
> You chide me for not keeping an open mind about a "fellow hunter". I despise anyone who sheds a negative light on this sport and I'll never stand up or defend somebody with a history of poaching.


This is purely rhetorical..so every time in your life anyone has called you an idiot, you have felt the need to go out and prove it?


Fight it off next time



Pffffffft.........


----------



## Ptoid (Mar 8, 2014)

zap said:


> Africa is a zoo....watch the news.


Get with the 21st century. You obviously know nothing about the continent larger than north and south america.


----------



## Chris1ny (Oct 23, 2006)

KSQ2 said:


> Mark my words, there will be some stupid movie about Cecil.


Agree...there always a stupid movie after...


----------



## Ptoid (Mar 8, 2014)

zap said:


> (Fox)
> 
> 
> "Laury Marshall Parramore, a spokeswoman for the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service told the Star Tribune the agency is deeply concerned about the incident.
> ...


Good. Thats what should happen especially when this guy has a history of poaching.


----------



## Elvis_Is_Dead (Nov 25, 2009)

Ptoid said:


> Good. Thats what should happen especially when this guy has a history of poaching.


What jurisdiction would the USFWS have over something in Zimbabwe? 

The only thing that might be possible is if he still had the head, but the reports said they have already confiscated that. It sounds to me like none of the lion actually left Zimbabwe.

So I have a question for you. Why should our taxes be wasted to investigate something we have no jurisdiction over?


----------



## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

You folks realize that the feds can offer a plea deal in conjunction with an admission of guilt/signed statement.

Take the plea and sign the statement or spend hundreds of thousands of dollars defending yourself.

Its a common practice.


----------



## Elvis_Is_Dead (Nov 25, 2009)

zap said:


> You folks realize that the feds can offer a plea deal in conjunction with an admission of guilt/signed statement.
> 
> Take the plea and sign the statement or spend hundreds of thousands of dollars defending yourself.
> 
> Its a common practice.


What crime against the people of the US has been committed?


----------



## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

Elvis_Is_Dead said:


> What jurisdiction would the USFWS have over something in Zimbabwe?
> 
> The only thing that might be possible is if he still had the head, but the reports said they have already confiscated that. It sounds to me like none of the lion actually left Zimbabwe.
> 
> So I have a question for you. Why should our taxes be wasted to investigate something we have no jurisdiction over?



The forest service investigation of this will guarantee many political contributions from the anti lobby and votes by misguided people.


----------



## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

Elvis_Is_Dead said:


> What crime against the people of the US has been committed?


I was referring to the bear poaching charge in the USA. But it would also apply to other charges. I think it could be a taft act violation (the lion) plus he probably wired money from a us bank to pay for the trip.

They can come up with something, that's why there are too many laws to count.


----------



## Elvis_Is_Dead (Nov 25, 2009)

zap said:


> I was referring to the bear poaching charge in the USA.


Didn't he already pay his debt to society for that?


----------



## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

OK, let me say this slower.

He could have plead quilty to the bear charge in order to avoid a trial and the expense/publicity.

Does not mean he WAS guilty.


----------



## Ptoid (Mar 8, 2014)

Because hes a us citizen with a hunting license and our support could be useful to the zimbambwean investigation. So if you commit a crime outside of the country it shouldnt count here? We should worry more about the truth and spend less time politicizing this stuff. Bash obama for something else lets worry about an american bowhunters morals and actions abroad. What people think about him affects their perception of all of us unfortunately.


----------



## BOOYAH (Feb 2, 2009)

These fools . Didnt realize all the vegans out there.Animal is a friggin animal. Enough already


----------



## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

Ptoid said:


> Because hes a us citizen with a hunting license and our support could be useful to the zimbambwean investigation. So if you commit a crime outside of the country it shouldnt count here? We should worry more about the truth and spend less time politicizing this stuff. Bash obama for something else lets worry about an american bowhunters morals and actions abroad. What people think about him affects their perception of all of us unfortunately.


There are actually rules of law involved here.

But I think you should wear fur as often as possible and strap all deer to the roof of the vehicle.....:darkbeer:


----------



## Ptoid (Mar 8, 2014)

zap said:


> There are actually rules of law involved here.
> 
> But I think you should wear fur as often as possible and strap all deer to the roof of the vehicle.....:darkbeer:


Do that already big guy[emoji41]


----------



## Elvis_Is_Dead (Nov 25, 2009)

zap said:


> OK, let me say this slower.
> 
> He could have plead quilty to the bear charge in order to avoid a trial and the expense/publicity.
> 
> Does not mean he WAS guilty.


LOL - it got through that time. Not too likley. Report said he killed in area not legal, and then transported bear to register in location where it was legal. Sounds pretty cut-n-dry to me.

I'm not convinced he did anything wrong with Lion though... AND I don't think US has any jurisdiction over it.


----------



## Elvis_Is_Dead (Nov 25, 2009)

Ptoid said:


> Because hes a us citizen with a hunting license and our support could be useful to the zimbambwean investigation. So if you commit a crime outside of the country it shouldnt count here? We should worry more about the truth and spend less time politicizing this stuff. Bash obama for something else lets worry about an american bowhunters morals and actions abroad. What people think about him affects their perception of all of us unfortunately.


Again... what crime did he commit against the US? You can't just make up your own set of beliefs, and expect everyone to jump aboard with you.


----------



## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

I read a report that said Oswald was a lone shooter.

:darkbeer:


----------



## Elvis_Is_Dead (Nov 25, 2009)

zap said:


> I read a report that said Oswald was a lone shooter.
> 
> :darkbeer:


LOL - I know you are smarter than this.


----------



## GVDocHoliday (Jan 20, 2003)

Every deer I kill this year I'm gonna name Cecil. Then post it and hash tag it.


----------



## Ptoid (Mar 8, 2014)

zap said:


> I read a report that said Oswald was a lone shooter.
> 
> :darkbeer:


There was a worse one by the senate investigation in 78 that said jfk was killed by multiple assailants who attacked at the same time and place and yet were not necessarily working together


----------



## spamking (Nov 7, 2011)




----------



## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

Ptoid said:


> There was a worse one by the senate investigation in 78 that said jfk was killed by multiple assailants who attacked at the same time and place and yet were not necessarily working together


:wink:


----------



## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

:lol:


----------



## Ptoid (Mar 8, 2014)

Levon!!!! Great scene. Almost soiled myself when i saw him in this movie. Perfectly cast. Like robert duvall as slingblades dad


----------



## COArrow (Nov 24, 2013)

Will be interesting if he is extradited.


----------



## Ptoid (Mar 8, 2014)

Zap you just made the list. Feds are watching now


----------



## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

They have been watching me for a while......when the black van pulls up...draw fast.

:darkbeer:


----------



## mthcharlestown (Jan 17, 2013)

Why aren't the libs protesting Mugabe who had a lion killed for his birthday to eat and have it mounted, he also eats baby elephants! What about the ivory poachers? A lot more to get enraged about...


----------



## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

I am going to the video store and get me a copy of ghost and the Darkness for my dvd collection.....and to watch this eve.


----------



## COArrow (Nov 24, 2013)

mthcharlestown said:


> Why aren't the libs protesting Mugabe who had a lion killed for his birthday to eat and have it mounted, he also eats baby elephants! What about the ivory poachers? A lot more to get enraged about...


You think this is a liberal movement? Wow, you all really out of touch. The outrage is pretty much everyone except a few posting on here. You can debate why, but pretty much every demographic thinks it was a poor idea and terrible way to represent sportsmen and Americans.


----------



## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

^ Not true.

Yup...:darkbeer:


----------



## Zixer (Dec 1, 2013)

I cant believe I just wasted 15 minutes reading this thread.....ffs....


----------



## COArrow (Nov 24, 2013)

carry on with banter and look out for the feds;-) lol


----------



## Okie X (Dec 3, 2005)

zap said:


> ^ Not true.
> 
> Yup...:darkbeer:


A little bit true.

Being an American he coulda represented us a little better by being a better shot.


----------



## Chris1ny (Oct 23, 2006)

United States should boycott all future hunting at Zimbabwe. Takes the money for licensing then points the finger. Zimbabwe should not allow Lion hunting in the first place if they are going to point the finger and shift the blame.


----------



## Tk_it_ez (Jul 26, 2014)

It sure seems to me that most of the people defending the dentist are overlooking the fact that the lion was lured off of the preserve. I think this is the biggest reason for all of the outrage. They went into an area in which hunting is not legal, picked out a lion that they wanted to hunt and lured it off of the preserve. In fairness, I do not know if the dentist was involved with luring the lion.

A similar situation would be killing a mountain lion here in Missouri. It's legal if you are protecting a person or livestock. But what wouldn't be legal is luring one into your chicken coop by dragging a dead chicken on a string in front of it in order to shoot it and call it defending your livestock.

But in all honesty, I support the idea of "don't kill it unless you plan to grill it". It it's true they just skinned it and took the head, it puts it into another category for me anyway. Even if 100% legal.


----------



## Fortyneck (Oct 8, 2010)

zap said:


> Poor Cecil was killed by an American bowhunter in Zimbabwe....the hunter is a dentist, *now he had to close his office due to the bad press.*


You gotta be LION!!!

:behindsof


----------



## Chris1ny (Oct 23, 2006)

Tk_it_ez said:


> It sure seems to me that most of the people defending the dentist are overlooking the fact that the lion was lured off of the preserve...


Yes that is what the media is reporting. However, is this the truth or just an excuse from the Zimbabwe government? Was the lion really lured off the preserve from the preserve, which would be illegal or from the farmer's land, which is legal?

Allowing lion hunting next to a preserve is the root cause of the problem. 

Maybe it's different in another county, but in this county, you are innocent until proven guilty. So far just bunch of maybe and finger pointing...waiting for the real facts to come out of the courts.


----------



## Fortyneck (Oct 8, 2010)

zap said:


> I read a report that said Oswald was a lone shooter.
> 
> :darkbeer:


----------



## eliminator2 (Feb 19, 2011)

zap said:


> a family grieves for the lion......outside the dentist office..




Hello darlin...:tongue:


----------



## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

COArrow said:


> carry on with banter and look out for the feds;-) lol


All the coverage of this shows is just how powerful the anti American agenda is.


----------



## Okie X (Dec 3, 2005)

Chris1ny said:


> Allowing lion hunting next to a preserve is the root cause of the problem.


:doh:


----------



## Chris1ny (Oct 23, 2006)

Okie X said:


> :doh:


What are you, 2 years old? If you have something to say, say it.


----------



## trs (Sep 24, 2010)

From what I read the lion was poached, not because it was collared, a celebrity, or lived on a game preserve but because it was taken on private land that was not permitted for lion hunting. I have no clue what the criteria is needed to get a lion permit on private property in Zimbabwe but this whole thing doesn't seem on the up and up to me. I look at it along the same lines of the celebrity hunter killing a trophy deer outside the laws.


----------



## Rolo (Dec 16, 2002)

COArrow said:


> You think this is a liberal movement? Wow, you all really out of touch. The outrage is pretty much everyone except a few posting on here. You can debate why, but pretty much every demographic thinks it was a poor idea and terrible way to represent sportsmen and Americans.


So this proves there's a lot of idiot reactionary folks who like to form personal opinions about events based on their feelings and care little about forming an educated opinion...and you fall in line with them?

Got it.


----------



## Chris1ny (Oct 23, 2006)

trs said:


> From what I read the lion was poached, not because it was collared, a celebrity, or lived on a game preserve but because it was taken on private land that was not permitted for lion hunting. I have no clue what the criteria is needed to get a lion permit on private property in Zimbabwe but this whole thing doesn't seem on the up and up to me. I look at it along the same lines of the celebrity hunter killing a trophy deer outside the laws.


That is the latest spin on the story. The private land owner did not have the proper permit for this year. If this is the case, the private land owner is 100% at fault.

Then what's up with the story about luring the lion off the preserve. That is not an issue now, but now it's the land owner not having the proper permit. 

The story keeps changing. Sounds like a bunch of people/government trying to do a CYA by finger pointing.


----------



## Elvis_Is_Dead (Nov 25, 2009)

GVDocHoliday said:


> Every deer I kill this year I'm gonna name Cecil. Then post it and hash tag it.


I name mine Elvis... unless they are still in velvet... then I name them Velvet Elvis... and then I behead them. :teeth:


----------



## Elvis_Is_Dead (Nov 25, 2009)

Tk_it_ez said:


> It sure seems to me that most of the people defending the dentist are overlooking the fact that the lion was lured off of the preserve. I think this is the biggest reason for all of the outrage. They went into an area in which hunting is not legal, picked out a lion that they wanted to hunt and lured it off of the preserve. In fairness, I do not know if the dentist was involved with luring the lion.
> 
> A similar situation would be killing a mountain lion here in Missouri. It's legal if you are protecting a person or livestock. But what wouldn't be legal is luring one into your chicken coop by dragging a dead chicken on a string in front of it in order to shoot it and call it defending your livestock.
> 
> But in all honesty, I support the idea of "don't kill it unless you plan to grill it". It it's true they just skinned it and took the head, it puts it into another category for me anyway. Even if 100% legal.


Actually if you dig a little deeper, some of the media is reporting it like that.

What they initially were doing was baiting leopard, when Cecil happened to come in. The guy had a tag, and the Prof. Hunter told him to go ahead and shoot it.
They shouldn't have told him that, because unbeknownst to the dentist... the land owner didn't have a lion allotment for his land. However... that would't have stopped them because if anyone questioned it, they would just pay them off.
But that is on the landowner, and the Prof. Hunter... not the dentist... and nobody would have cared if it hadn't been Cecil the Friendly Lion.
After they shot it, they discovered it was collared, and the dentist was furious, as he knew none of this ahead of time (no you can't see the collar under the thick mane).

The Landowner, and the Prof Hunter are being indicted. The dentist didn't actually do anything wrong. The articles say they baited at night... but don't say the dentist actually shot him in the dark.

Don't let the leftist bias of the media frame your opinion on this. Dig deeper.

http://heavy.com/news/2015/07/cecil...ecilthelion-obituary-fundraiser-laws-tribute/


----------



## Berdo (Dec 21, 2013)

Tk_it_ez said:


> It sure seems to me that most of the people defending the dentist are overlooking the fact that the lion was lured off of the preserve. I think this is the biggest reason for all of the outrage. They went into an area in which hunting is not legal, picked out a lion that they wanted to hunt and lured it off of the preserve. In fairness, I do not know if the dentist was involved with luring the lion.
> 
> A similar situation would be killing a mountain lion here in Missouri. It's legal if you are protecting a person or livestock. But what wouldn't be legal is luring one into your chicken coop by dragging a dead chicken on a string in front of it in order to shoot it and call it defending your livestock.
> 
> But in all honesty, I support the idea of "don't kill it unless you plan to grill it". It it's true they just skinned it and took the head, it puts it into another category for me anyway. Even if 100% legal.


Was the lion "lured"? Like "here kitty kitty" as it followed the truck with the dead carcass bait? Or did guides drive up to border of the preserve and then drag a carcass leaving a scent trail all the way to the blind or wherever they planned on having the dentist hunt? That would be a sketchy situation in my book but might not actually be illegal. Much like sitting over a corn feeder on private land that borders a metro park. 

I think there's lots of outrage and misinformation to get people riled up to help move an agenda along. I don't support the trophy hunting per se. I'd prefer people are what they killed or at least somebody ate what they killed. Interested to see how this plays out. Anybody who truly committed crimes deserves to be punished. I'm willing to bet this dentist will be filing defamation suits after its all said and done.


----------



## Okie X (Dec 3, 2005)

Chris1ny said:


> What are you, 2 years old? If you have something to say, say it.


I have a 2 year old so let me explain this so that even he may understand....

What do you think think this preserve is? Like a hundred acres with a nice fence? It's millions of acres. There is no fence.

Animals can come and go from the North/South/East/West and any direction in between. 

So what do you mean " ...hunting next to a preserve is the root cause of the problem." ???

It's either part of the preserve or it isn't. If you say "NO HUNTING next to the preserve for one mile in all directions" all you have done is increased the size of the preserve. Can you understand that? 

It's either part of preserve or it is not.


----------



## MiStickSlinger (Mar 15, 2013)

Chris1ny said:


> Allowing lion hunting next to a preserve is the root cause of the problem.


Apparently you aren't familiar with the concept of buffer zones. Buffer zones are areas which receive limited protection outside of these parks and serve as a conservation buffer between the park and developed land. Hunting is allowed in these buffer zones with the idea that the landowners and locals will keep the poaching down with the legal hunting being the economic incentive to do so. I'm not going to speculate on all facets of this hunt until more facts become clear, but to say that hunting close to a preserves boundaries is a problem shows your ignorance on the issue


----------



## ditchpicklem7 (Oct 2, 2013)

I don't know what all the fuss is about? I hear all the people over there are pretty excited/relieved.


----------



## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

NBC ought to get Born Free on the air fast, guaranteed good ratings.


----------



## trs (Sep 24, 2010)

As long as it's legal I personally I don't have a problem with hunting land bordering game preserves. I've even done it myself for whitetails using multiple legal methods trying to lure them off. What I'm curious of is it legal to lure game off the preserve for lawful take in Zimbabwe? I've searched for it and laws on killing collared game there and cannot find anything. The guide and PH were arrested for " unlawful taking of game " which indicates the lion was not taken legally. Perhaps the dentist was misguided or maybe he wasn't and figured people could be paid off but couldn't because of the publicity it got. Regardless the punishment he's going through certainly doesn't fit the crime after the ones who were arrested have been released on $1000 bail.


----------



## MiStickSlinger (Mar 15, 2013)

ditchpicklem7 said:


> I don't know what all the fuss is about? I hear all the people over there are pretty excited/relieved.


HA thats great, definitely stealing this pic lol


----------



## MattEilerman (May 29, 2015)

hunterhewi said:


> So your saying you have neve broken a single law while hunting? If you say no then im going to call you a liar. I would bet that about every hunter out there has broken some sort of miniscule law that they failed to read up on. By your definition we are all just poachers. Keep on donating to PETA, they love guys like you


You called a guy ignorant for making a claim that the dentist was a poacher, a crime which he actually has been previously accused and convicted of, and then make an off the remark ignorant PETA comment toward a a guy who is simply stating that he should have followed the law. If that's not the pot calling the kettle black I don't know what is haha!


----------



## MattEilerman (May 29, 2015)

Rolo said:


> So this proves there's a lot of idiot reactionary folks who like to form personal opinions about events based on their feelings and care little about forming an educated opinion...and you fall in line with them?
> 
> Got it.


The outrage stems from a pretty point blank failure to follow the LAW. Plain and simple. Whether you agree with it or not he hunted the lion illegally. To me that is about as far removed from forming an opinion based on feelings as it can get. It's forming an opinion based upon the idea that I believe it is important to follow the law.


----------



## Elvis_Is_Dead (Nov 25, 2009)

zap said:


> NBC ought to get Born Free on the air fast, guaranteed good ratings.


I was thinking Lion Kig


----------



## jrc2103 (Jan 28, 2014)

This whole situation is so dumb to me. People act like they know this lion like it was the family pet. People going to mourn at the dentist office and make a shrine? Threating a MANS life over an animal that you didn't know exsisted a week ago? Are you kidding me? If the man broke the law then punish him by all means. If not, leave him alone and don't hunt lions. If this really brings true saddness to your life and you have never thought about doing something for the conservation of the African Lions before this story then go get your head checked. Something is wrong with you. But... That of course is just my opinion.


----------



## Rolo (Dec 16, 2002)

MattEilerman said:


> The outrage stems from a pretty point blank failure to follow the LAW. Plain and simple. Whether you agree with it or not he hunted the lion illegally. To me that is about as far removed from forming an opinion based on feelings as it can get. It's forming an opinion based upon the idea that I believe it is important to follow the law.


Please tell us with certainty exactly what law was failed to be followed, point blank, by the hunter. Please provide the relevant facts that support this point blankedness failure to follow the law. 

Please tell us how the lion was hunted illegally by the hunter. Once you can do that, then I suppose I suppose you can claim to have formed an opinion on things other than your feelings...but until then, yeah, you ain't so far removed as you think you are...

And just curious...by you line of "reasoning" I suppose the outage over any illegally killed animal would support an end to the practice that lead to it getting killed...no? That is what all these outraged folks are after, and you seem to be ready to agree and condemn right along with them...


----------



## 0nepin (Sep 16, 2009)

I have a new desire to hunt lion's now.http://www.exoticmeatmarkets.com/amliribeyest.html


----------



## Elvis_Is_Dead (Nov 25, 2009)

Well I'll have to say that Cecil is one polarizing critter, wouldn't y'all agree.
He can turn a bunch of normal ATrs into enemies in no time.


----------



## MattEilerman (May 29, 2015)

Rolo said:


> Please tell us with certainty exactly what law was failed to be followed, point blank, by the hunter. Please provide the relevant facts that support this point blankedness failure to follow the law.
> 
> Please tell us how the lion was hunted illegally by the hunter. Once you can do that, then I suppose I suppose you can claim to have formed an opinion on things other than your feelings...but until then, yeah, you ain't so far removed as you think you are...


It's fairly well documented that the lion was illegally baited outside of the preservation. If you're wanting first hand video evidence of this happening, then golly gee darn, I guess you got me there. We will just never know. He is currently facing poaching charges however, so I guess we'll just have to take their word for it. Unless big brother is up to something no good again!


----------



## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

^bs.


----------



## Rolo (Dec 16, 2002)

MattEilerman said:


> It's fairly well documented that the lion was illegally baited outside of the preservation. If you're wanting first hand video evidence of this happening, then golly gee darn, I guess you got me there. We will just never know. He is currently facing poaching charges however, so I guess we'll just have to take their word for it. Unless big brother is up to something no good again!


So...what evidence is there that the hunter took part in this alleged offense, or had knowledge of it?

Um, he IS NOT currently facing any charges, but I suppose you can keep making stuff up.

Do you understand the concept of "evidence" and that what the media reports is not evidence.


----------



## MattEilerman (May 29, 2015)

zap said:


> ^bs.


I'm sorry but you're wrong. The charges are there. They exist. They have been filed. I don't know how much more matter of fact it can be. Also the dentist has a previous federal conviction for poaching related charges. Not BS, that's a fact. And no you don't have a "different" opinion. You have a wrong opinion.


----------



## I like Meat (Feb 14, 2009)

Bait in the form of dead antelope and other critters are used all the time for lions and leopards..... just how do those know that Palmer was aware of the dragging of the bait, IF that was even done..... just why dont you clownboys wait till the investigation is finished.... always a bunch of jackwagons who know all on this f'n site ....


----------



## 206Moose (Apr 29, 2007)

MattEilerman said:


> I'm sorry but you're wrong. The charges are there. They exist. They have been filed. I don't know how much more matter of fact it can be. Also the dentist has a previous federal conviction for poaching related charges. Not BS, that's a fact. And no you don't have a "different" opinion. You have a wrong opinion.


Please provide a link so we can all be informed as you


----------



## Rolo (Dec 16, 2002)

The stupid in this thread has returned...


----------



## I like Meat (Feb 14, 2009)

aint that the truth .... that is the only factual thing in any of these threads .....no ones exactly what happened yet....if the guy was aware and is in on knowing ahead of time what was being done was illegal, then yes, he should burn....but as of yet the only thing he is guilty of is making a bad shot.... so many rush to judgement.....


----------



## MattEilerman (May 29, 2015)

A simple google search of the guy's name brings up quite a few sites that outline the federal conviction of poaching related charges the guy was charged with a few years back. No, I do not personally posses the legal documents filed to whatever courthouse at the time, so I guess they all could be lying. But my guess is CNN, Fox and NBC news are all reliable enough to not blatantly make up falsified charges. But then again, I'm just a naive fool sucking the teet of the liberal media power machine...


----------



## 2dayis (Jun 15, 2015)

Smoke em


----------



## Rolo (Dec 16, 2002)

MattEilerman said:


> A simple google search of the guy's name brings up quite a few sites that outline the federal conviction of poaching related charges the guy was charged with a few years back. No, I do not personally posses the legal documents filed to whatever courthouse at the time, so I guess they all could be lying. But my guess is CNN, Fox and NBC news are all reliable enough to not blatantly make up falsified charges. But then again, I'm just a naive fool sucking the teet of the liberal media power machine...


WTH does a conviction that is several years old, involving the hunting of a bear, have to do with a lion hunt that occurred in Africa in 2015?

You're the one who said he hunted the lion illegally. You're the one who said he'd been charged related to hunting the lion illegally. All I asked for is the facts or proof that establishes these statements. You have provided none, continue to provide none, talk about something that happened years ago as if it relates...

It is strong with you...


----------



## 206Moose (Apr 29, 2007)

MattEilerman said:


> A simple google search of the guy's name brings up quite a few sites that outline the federal conviction of poaching related charges the guy was charged with a few years back. No, I do not personally posses the legal documents filed to whatever courthouse at the time, so I guess they all could be lying. But my guess is CNN, Fox and NBC news are all reliable enough to not blatantly make up falsified charges. But then again, I'm just a naive fool sucking the teet of the liberal media power machine...


You said he was charged with poaching Cecil so prove it


----------



## hunterhewi (Jun 12, 2010)

MattEilerman said:


> A simple google search of the guy's name brings up quite a few sites that outline the federal conviction of poaching related charges the guy was charged with a few years back. No, I do not personally posses the legal documents filed to whatever courthouse at the time, so I guess they all could be lying. But my guess is CNN, Fox and NBC news are all reliable enough to not blatantly make up falsified charges. But then again, I'm just a naive fool sucking the teet of the liberal media power machine...


Hahaha well well well....you are not too bright are you?


----------



## MattEilerman (May 29, 2015)

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-33699346
The guide and landowner are facing charges. My mistake, he is not because it would be all but impossible for Zimbabwe to extradite an American in order to bring forth poaching charges. If he had remained in Africa the story would be different, certainly does not strengthen an argument for his innocence. There is such thing as guilty by association. His previous convictions for similar crimes are pretty relevant I would argue. Ever hear the old saying "fool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice..."


----------



## 206Moose (Apr 29, 2007)

MattEilerman said:


> http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-33699346
> The guide and landowner are facing charges. My mistake, he is not because it would be all but impossible for Zimbabwe to extradite an American in order to bring forth poaching charges. If he had remained in Africa the story would be different, certainly does not strengthen an argument for his innocence. There is such thing as guilty by association. His previous convictions for similar crimes are pretty relevant I would argue. Ever hear the old saying "fool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice..."


Ever hear of talking out your ass? You're obviously a member of PETA or some tree hugger organization Go somewhere else and spread your lies.


----------



## COArrow (Nov 24, 2013)

MattEilerman said:


> http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-33699346
> The guide and landowner are facing charges. My mistake, he is not because it would be all but impossible for Zimbabwe to extradite an American in order to bring forth poaching charges. If he had remained in Africa the story would be different, certainly does not strengthen an argument for his innocence. There is such thing as guilty by association. His previous convictions for similar crimes are pretty relevant I would argue. Ever hear the old saying "fool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice..."


Actually he might be extradited at this point, will be interesting to see. Our Government is entertaining the idea currently.


----------



## 206Moose (Apr 29, 2007)

COArrow said:


> Actually he might be extradited at this point, will be interesting to see. Our Government is entertaining the idea currently.


Has to be charged with a crime before extradition. Still waiting for proof he has been charged with a crime.


----------



## Rolo (Dec 16, 2002)

MattEilerman said:


> http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-33699346
> The guide and landowner are facing charges. My mistake, he is not because* it would be all but impossible for Zimbabwe to extradite an American in order to bring forth poaching charges.* If he had remained in Africa the story would be different, certainly does not strengthen an argument for his innocence. There is such thing as guilty by association. His previous convictions for similar crimes are pretty relevant I would argue. Ever hear the old saying "fool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice..."


Really, after all this you're going to double down with more unsubstantiated nonsense? You know this because?

There is no such thing as "guilt by association" at least in American jurisprudence. I have no idea about Zimbabwe, and won't pretend to know...you ought to try it...

The previous crime is irrelevant to proving anything in this matter, and what happened in that situation, is not remotely similar to poor Cecil's death...

There's an old saying about redemption and second chance...there's also an old saying about opening one's mouth and removing all doubt...guessing you haven't heard the first, and certainly have proven that you are oblivious to the second...


----------



## MattEilerman (May 29, 2015)

Hidden By Design said:


> Ever hear of talking out your ass? You're obviously a member of PETA or some tree hugger organization Go somewhere else and spread your lies.


Haha obviously I'm a member of PETA! It all makes sense now! You're an idiot...


----------



## Rolo (Dec 16, 2002)

COArrow said:


> Actually he might be extradited at this point, will be interesting to see. *Our Government is entertaining the idea currently*.


Proof?


----------



## COArrow (Nov 24, 2013)

Rolo said:


> Proof?


I have no desire to prove anything to you. Could careless if you believe it or not


----------



## hunterhewi (Jun 12, 2010)

MattEilerman said:


> Haha obviously I'm a member of PETA! It all makes sense now! You're an idiot...


No you sir are the idiot. NO ONE knows the facts. Everything is speculation at this point. I bet you cried into your mothers arms when you heard the news of that poor, innocent, cuddly, stupid ass lion


----------



## 206Moose (Apr 29, 2007)

MattEilerman said:


> Haha obviously I'm a member of PETA! It all makes sense now! You're an idiot...


Pretty sure everyone reading this knows who the idiot is. I certainly hope you're a PETA member. Makes me sick to think an actual hunter would be on an archery forum posting what you have been posting. You might not be a PETA member but you're certainly not a hunter.


----------



## COArrow (Nov 24, 2013)

Hidden By Design said:


> Pretty sure everyone reading this knows who the idiot is. I certainly hope you're a PETA member. Makes me sick to think an actual hunter would be on an archery forum posting what you have been posting. You might not be a PETA member but you're certainly not a hunter.


What makes you a good example of a hunter, please enlighten us...


----------



## 0nepin (Sep 16, 2009)

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TnxlHICg2Uo


----------



## 206Moose (Apr 29, 2007)

COArrow said:


> I have no desire to prove anything to you. Could careless if you believe it or not


Seriously? Another one making outrageous claims without proof. Nobody said you're wrong but you can't make statements like that without proof.


----------



## 0nepin (Sep 16, 2009)

I bet he would of made a nice rug .heck I would of put the collar back on the rug


----------



## COArrow (Nov 24, 2013)

Hidden By Design said:


> Seriously? Another one making outrageous claims without proof. Nobody said you're wrong but you can't make statements like that without proof.


I am not making claims without having looked into it. I just don't care if you don't believe me. I was just curious why you are able to judge who is and who is not a "good hunter"


----------



## 206Moose (Apr 29, 2007)

COArrow said:


> What makes you a good example of a hunter, please enlighten us...


To start with 
I support hunting instead of trying to hurt hunting by posting outrageous claims on an Internet forum. Unless this guy is charged and convicted he is innocent.


----------



## 09blackonblack (Nov 9, 2011)

:cheers:


hunterhewi said:


> No you sir are the idiot. NO ONE knows the facts. Everything is speculation at this point. I bet you cried into your mothers arms when you heard the news of that poor, innocent, cuddly, stupid ass lion


----------



## Rolo (Dec 16, 2002)

COArrow said:


> I have no desire to prove anything to you. Could careless if you believe it or not


Not asking you to prove anything to me...asking for the proof of your statement that the US government is currently considering extradition. Should be a fairly easy thing to support it it were true...it is is not, then it is simply made up, or pulled from one's backside,and no matter how many times you want to say it, it doesn't make it true...

So again, either there is proof that supports your statement, or you pulled it out of your backside...


----------



## 0nepin (Sep 16, 2009)

The real dispute is lion better grilled or fried ?


----------



## 206Moose (Apr 29, 2007)

COArrow said:


> I am not making claims without having looked into it. I just don't care if you don't believe me. I was just curious why you are able to judge who is and who is not a "good hunter"


You claimed the government was considering extradition that is a claim that requires proof If you don't think so I could say you helped poach Cecil. See how easy it is to make claims without proof.


----------



## COArrow (Nov 24, 2013)

Rolo said:


> Not asking you to prove anything to me...asking for the proof of your statement that the US government is currently considering extradition. Should be a fairly easy thing to support it it were true...it is is not, then it is simply made up, or pulled from one's backside,and no matter how many times you want to say it, it doesn't make it true...
> 
> So again, either there is proof that supports your statement, or you pulled it out of your backside...


There is support to what I posted or I would not have posted it. I have no desire to source my post on AT. Heck people thank Jesus on here all the time and I don't ask them to prove he actually existed, because they can't. Do you feel Jesus was pulled out of someones backside?


----------



## hunterhewi (Jun 12, 2010)

0nepin said:


> The real dispute is lion better grilled or fried ?


Ill split the cost of a pound with you and we can decide which is best while washing it down with some cold beer


----------



## COArrow (Nov 24, 2013)

Hidden By Design said:


> You claimed the government was considering extradition that is a claim that requires proof If you don't think so I could say you helped poach Cecil. See how easy it is to make claims without proof.


, 
Your claim makes you look like a moron and mine is actually plausible, see how easy you look like a moron?


----------



## 206Moose (Apr 29, 2007)

COArrow said:


> There is support to what I posted or I would not have posted it. I have no desire to source my post on AT. Heck people thank Jesus on here all the time and I don't ask them to prove he actually existed, because they can't. Do you feel Jesus was pulled out of someones backside?


You're a waste of space. 
Hey everybody this guy helped poach Cecil and is trying to hide his guilt by blaming someone else. Don't ask for proof I said it on the Internet so it must be true. 

You're the definition of idiot.


----------



## 206Moose (Apr 29, 2007)

I refuse to have a battle of wits with someone that is obviously unarmed good night sir babble on


----------



## COArrow (Nov 24, 2013)

Hidden By Design said:


> You're a waste of space.
> Hey everybody this guy helped poach Cecil and is trying to hide his guilt by blaming someone else. Don't ask for proof I said it on the Internet so it must be true.
> 
> You're the definition of idiot.


Well, that was easy.


----------



## 0nepin (Sep 16, 2009)

Sounds like a plan .


hunterhewi said:


> Ill split the cost of a pound with you and we can decide which is best while washing it down with some cold beer


----------



## Rolo (Dec 16, 2002)

COArrow said:


> There is support to what I posted or I would not have posted it. I have no desire to source my post on AT. Heck people thank Jesus on here all the time and I don't ask them to prove he actually existed, because they can't. Do you feel Jesus was pulled out of someones backside?


Ah...proof of a negative...there's proof, otherwise I wouldn't have posted it, but I'm not going to bother to provide the proof of what I posted...maybe you do believe it the more you say it...

Do you even know what is involved with international extradition?


----------



## Rolo (Dec 16, 2002)

COArrow said:


> ,
> Your *claim *makes you look like a moron and *mine is actually plausible*, see how easy you look like a moron?


Wait a minute...plausibility is a whole different realm than actuality...your post was based on actuality...are you now retreating to a position of plausibility?

This also ignores the reality that a claim is a suspicion...not a fact....


----------



## COArrow (Nov 24, 2013)

Rolo said:


> Ah...proof of a negative...there's proof, otherwise I wouldn't have posted it, but I'm not going to bother to provide the proof of what I posted...maybe you do believe it the more you say it...
> 
> Do you even know what is involved with international extradition?


Yes, but this case has a unique clause to it that makes it easier. Like I said it is being entertained. It would seem his karma with the federal fish/game folks is not great.


----------



## Rolo (Dec 16, 2002)

COArrow said:


> Yes, but this case has a unique clause to it that makes it easier. Like I said it is being entertained. It would seem his karma with the federal fish/game folks is not great.


Unique clause? Really....plausible I suppose...

I'm also quite curious on the grounds of this extradition, what with him not being charged with any crime...


----------



## 206Moose (Apr 29, 2007)

hunterhewi said:


> Ill split the cost of a pound with you and we can decide which is best while washing it down with some cold beer


Count me in I'll try it barbecued.


----------



## hunterhewi (Jun 12, 2010)

Hidden By Design said:


> Count me in I'll try it barbecued.


Just bring some beer man and join in!


----------



## COArrow (Nov 24, 2013)

Rolo said:


> Unique clause? Really....plausible I suppose...
> 
> I'm also quite curious on the grounds of this extradition, what with him not being charged with any crime...


We have a bilateral treaty with Zimbabwe which makes extradition for offense the are common between our two countries easier. Also the issue for Palmer is not that it was lured out of the park, the issue is the land it was shot on, the owner was not allotted a lion tag for 2015. I have read numerous articles and researched the treaty. It is quite possible with the public outcry both here and abroad and the fact normal protocol is for all people involved to appear in court, it could certainly take place. US Fish and Game has offered to assist in anyway. That is in numerous articles as well. You are welcome to look into all of this yourself.


----------



## dr.shwack_em (Feb 1, 2015)




----------



## MattEilerman (May 29, 2015)

Hidden By Design said:


> Pretty sure everyone reading this knows who the idiot is. I certainly hope you're a PETA member. Makes me sick to think an actual hunter would be on an archery forum posting what you have been posting. You might not be a PETA member but you're certainly not a hunter.


Haha how dare I take an opinion based upon a rational standpoint! Clearly this is a reflection upon my poor tracking skills and archery form. I guess I should just sell my bow and take up a hobby more fitting to my weak feeble minded points of view, perhaps knitting. Sorry to have sickened you, oh great one


----------



## Rolo (Dec 16, 2002)

COArrow said:


> We have a bilateral treaty with Zimbabwe which makes extradition for offense the are common between our two countries easier. Also the issue for Palmer is not that it was lured out of the park, the issue is the land it was shot on, the owner was not allotted a lion tag for 2015. I have read numerous articles and researched the treaty. It is quite possible with the public outcry both here and abroad and the fact normal protocol is for all people involved to appear in court, it could certainly take place. US Fish and Game has offered to assist in anyway. That is in numerous articles as well. You are welcome to look into all of this yourself.


See...that wasn't so hard was it...of course the problem is going to be related to the facts that the hunter had a valid license...the owner of the property, who did not have an allotted license and allowed the hunt, certainly may have committed a crime...but it will be a stretch to find a similar, parallel law in the US that the hunter would be guilty of violating.

And, if public outcry determines whether a person will or won't be extradited, we are doomed...


----------



## 0nepin (Sep 16, 2009)

Are you a lion or a sheep ?


----------



## rackmasterlgw (Mar 16, 2007)

> Quote Originally Posted by COArrow
> We have a bilateral treaty with Zimbabwe which makes extradition for offense the are common between our two countries easier. Also the issue for Palmer is not that it was lured out of the park, the issue is the land it was shot on, the owner was not allotted a lion tag for 2015. I have read numerous articles and researched the treaty. It is quite possible with the public outcry both here and abroad and the fact normal protocol is for all people involved to appear in court, it could certainly take place. US Fish and Game has offered to assist in anyway. That is in numerous articles as well. You are welcome to look into all of this yourself.


CO,the government of Zimbabwe would extradite you for less than ten dollars American.


----------



## rustyhart (Feb 20, 2014)

Hell, even if the guy did break the law (which I am neither blaming or saying he didn't because I don't know) he doesn't deserve to lose everything he has over it.


----------



## spencer12 (Dec 21, 2009)

Anyone know any good lion outfitters? Seems like the adrenaline rush and action lasts for weeks after the hunt is over. Count me in.


----------



## 206Moose (Apr 29, 2007)

Anyone know how to put someone on ignore using tapatalk?


----------



## highwaynorth (Feb 17, 2005)

insanehunter11 said:


> i dont think deer in pa are on the endanger list, and tame to people presence


Lions aren't on the endangered list either. Otherwise they wouldn't be selling tags to hunt them.


----------



## highwaynorth (Feb 17, 2005)

spencer12 said:


> Anyone know any good lion outfitters? Seems like the adrenaline rush and action lasts for weeks after the hunt is over. Count me in.


Lmao


----------



## highwaynorth (Feb 17, 2005)

Maybe if the guy would have cut the lion up and sold the parts in the 
Name of science to help future lions , people would have ignored him.


----------



## namozine (Mar 15, 2013)

Gosh... Some folks on here need to go back to Salon.com, The Huffington Post, Mother Jones, etc...
You're not going to get much love here...


----------



## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

Zimbabwe is asking for extradition.....supposedly, according to Reuters.


----------



## Pyme (May 6, 2015)

rustyhart said:


> Do you support planned parenthood?


How many unwanted children have you adopted?


----------



## COArrow (Nov 24, 2013)

Hidden By Design said:


> Anyone know how to put someone on ignore using tapatalk?


I figured someone as smart and righteous as you would be able to figure it out on your own;-)


----------



## 206Moose (Apr 29, 2007)

I heard that Cecil had his hands up and got shot in the back.


----------



## DougKMN (Nov 7, 2006)

Rolo said:


> Please tell us with certainty exactly what law was failed to be followed, point blank, by the hunter. Please provide the relevant facts that support this point blankedness failure to follow the law.
> 
> Please tell us how the lion was hunted illegally by the hunter. Once you can do that, then I suppose I suppose you can claim to have formed an opinion on things other than your feelings...but until then, yeah, you ain't so far removed as you think you are...
> 
> And just curious...by you line of "reasoning" I suppose the outage over any illegally killed animal would support an end to the practice that lead to it getting killed...no? That is what all these outraged folks are after, and you seem to be ready to agree and condemn right along with them...


Point blank, he shot it somewhere in which it wasn't legal.


----------



## Elvis_Is_Dead (Nov 25, 2009)

Hidden By Design said:


> I heard that Cecil had his hands up and got shot in the back.


OK that was funny


----------



## buckeyboy (Feb 6, 2007)

http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2015/07/29/3685758/science-of-cecil-outrage/


----------



## buckshot164 (Apr 23, 2003)

I wonder how people on here would like it if someone shot a Bald Eagle. No difference to me but in a different country.


----------



## BigDeer (Aug 9, 2005)

buckshot164 said:


> I wonder how people on here would like it if someone shot a Bald Eagle. No difference to me but in a different country.


did that someone have a license?


----------



## Okie X (Dec 3, 2005)

Bald Eagle is not as tasty as it looks anyway. I'll take a Spotted Owl over one any day.


----------



## Okie X (Dec 3, 2005)

buckshot164 said:


> I wonder how people on here would like it if someone shot a Bald Eagle. No difference to me but in a different country.


If someone did shoot a bald eagle do you think they should lose their business and their home and have death threats hurled at them from strangers and celebrities?


----------



## hunterhewi (Jun 12, 2010)

Just think. All these idiots that are so upset over a stupid lion, and pulling the crap they are pulling, keep adding to the gene pool every day.....pretty sad if you ask me


----------



## Elvis_Is_Dead (Nov 25, 2009)

The dentist needs to hire a good lawyer, and file a lawsuit against the Prof. hunter IMO.

The lawyer could also help defend him against pending indictments... or even lawsuits. 

Regardless... he's screwed for sure. Bet he's running scared. Who would want to get their teeth drilled by Cecil The Friendly Lion Killer?


----------



## missouri reaper (Oct 20, 2011)

I like Meat said:


> Piss on that damn lion........its just an animal...... Babies are being pulled out of their mothers womb, skull's crushed and their body parts sold by nazi like clowns from planned parenthood, Isis is cutting off heads of hundreds of Christians, Boko Harum is kidnapping young girls and selling them on the black market, O'dipwad makes sure Iran will get nukes....and this lion CRAP is the headlines...WE ARE SO SCREWED!!


:thumbs_up


----------



## Eric W (Jan 16, 2007)

I'm glad that this happened during the summer. If it happened during the school year, I suspect that millions of students would have been organized into protesters (aka, lynch mobs).


----------



## DougKMN (Nov 7, 2006)

One thing's for sure, this poacher will probably never legally hunt again.


----------



## useyourbow (Jun 2, 2010)

Cecil the lion, just another dead beat dad killed looking for a hand out.


----------



## hunterhewi (Jun 12, 2010)

Elvis_Is_Dead said:


> The dentist needs to hire a good lawyer, and file a lawsuit against the Prof. hunter IMO.
> 
> The lawyer could also help defend him against pending indictments... or even lawsuits.
> 
> Regardless... he's screwed for sure. Bet he's running scared. Who would want to get their teeth drilled by Cecil The Friendly Lion Killer?


I would. I bet he could give a guy some mean meat eaters!


----------



## hunterhewi (Jun 12, 2010)

DougKMN said:


> One thing's for sure, this poacher will probably never legally hunt again.


You really need to stop. You make yourself look more dumb with every post you make.


----------



## DougKMN (Nov 7, 2006)

hunterhewi said:


> You really need to stop. You make yourself look more dumb with every post you make.


How so? The guy is a poacher. Fact.

And the infamy of his latest escapade means it is unlikely he'll be getting any permits. This is my opinion, but it doesn't make it less true. 

Of course, he should have received a lifetime ban for the bear. Again, my opinion.


----------



## 206Moose (Apr 29, 2007)

The ignore button is a wonderful thing


----------



## octanevane (Nov 15, 2009)

What a joke


----------



## 206Moose (Apr 29, 2007)

Why isn't anyone talking about all the lion on lion violence. How many lions kill each other every year fighting over girls and territory.


----------



## Beendare (Jan 31, 2006)

DougKMN said:


> One thing's for sure, this poacher will probably never legally hunt again.


Ok, so we have an animal rights troll on the boards. 

Have you ever booked an African hunt?

Or even a guided hunt?


Well i'm sure you must have gotten on a bus. so if the bus gets in an accident....are you going to take the blame and go to jail? These hunts are the same thing. The expectation is for the guide to follow the laws and instruct you on right and wrong. How are we supposed to know all of the laws in Zimbabwe?

It could be the dentist put up so much $$$ the guide took liberties- I don't know but there is no doubt this dentist is getting railroaded by the animal rights folks and our gov.


----------



## Bullhound (Feb 5, 2004)

DougKMN said:


> How so? The guy is a poacher. Fact.
> 
> And the infamy of his latest escapade means it is unlikely he'll be getting any permits. This is my opinion, but it doesn't make it less true.
> 
> Of course, he should have received a lifetime ban for the bear. Again, my opinion.


you sir need to get back on your medication..................

go back to the PETA site and discuss with them.


----------



## Elvis_Is_Dead (Nov 25, 2009)

Hidden By Design said:


> Why isn't anyone talking about all the lion on lion violence. How many lions kill each other every year fighting over girls and territory.


Ohh... you've gone and done it now.

Nobody cares that more blacks die at the hand of other blacks than they ever did from white cops... or from whites in general.

Same reasoning with lions. If lions die from other lions, it's ok because it's magically designed by nature... and nature is attributed godlike intelligience (in the minds of many) in that case.


----------



## DougKMN (Nov 7, 2006)

Beendare said:


> Ok, so we have an animal rights troll on the boards.
> 
> Have you ever booked an African hunt?
> 
> ...


It isn't hard to read up on laws before getting to a foreign country. Plenty of time to read on the plane if you get right down to it.


----------



## hunterhewi (Jun 12, 2010)

DougKMN said:


> It isn't hard to read up on laws before getting to a foreign country. Plenty of time to read on the plane if you get right down to it.


Please save everyone with your internet mr. perfect, check all the laws attitude.


----------



## Elvis_Is_Dead (Nov 25, 2009)

DougKMN said:


> It isn't hard to read up on laws before getting to a foreign country. Plenty of time to read on the plane if you get right down to it.


The dentist can only know what he has been told. The question should be: was he told that the landowner didn't have a lion allotment? :dontknow:

We have been led to believe that he was hunting in the dark on state run land. But in actuality... all that was really said was they were baiting in the dark. I haven't found anyone that can say what time of day or night it was when the dentist actually took his shot.

As far as I can tell... there is no proof of poaching on the dentist's part. 

So then it comes down to the question: Is ignorance... or deception by the prof. hunter an excuse? 

While I see your point Doug... you really have no proof of it yet... until all the facts come out.


----------



## DougKMN (Nov 7, 2006)

Elvis_Is_Dead said:


> The dentist can only know what he has been told. The question should be: was he told that the landowner didn't have a lion allotment? :dontknow:
> 
> We have been led to believe that he was hunting in the dark on state run land. But in actuality... all that was really said was they were baiting in the dark. I haven't found anyone that can say what time of day or night it was when the dentist actually took his shot.
> 
> ...


I will agree that this has been framed to make it look as deliberate as possible.

Did they drag the bait through the reserve with the express intent of luring a protected animal out? If so, is this legal?

Did they merely drag bait on huntable land adjacent to the preserve? This isn't clear.

Did they shoot it under cover of darkness or during legal shooting hours? Again, not clear.

Was it legal to attempt to take a lion with a bow? A Zimbabwe official said no.

Was it legal to kill the lion where it was killed? No.

Imo, Palmer's awareness of the illegality of the hunt don't absolve him of consequence. He is the one that ultimately broke the law. I don't think "the guide said it was ok" is a valid defense.


----------



## Elvis_Is_Dead (Nov 25, 2009)

DougKMN said:


> I will agree that this has been framed to make it look as deliberate as possible.
> 
> Did they drag the bait through the reserve with the express intent of luring a protected animal out? If so, is this legal?
> 
> ...


Actually it was stated in a few reports I saw, that they were baiting Leopard, and Cecil happened to come in. They scented a 1/2 mi area also. 
I don't think many have a clue of how this type of hunting works over there. When you bait predators... you can't predict what kind of predator will come in.

As far as was it legal... to shoot a lion... no. But that was only because the owner was not allotted a lion in his permit... a fact that they may (or may not) have shared with Palmer. 

Also... reports said Palmer was furious when he found out the Lion was collared. You can't see the collar under the bushy mane. That was discovered after the fact.
I can't find even one pic of Cecil where you can actually see the collar.

Edit: I take it back... I searched using the word collar, and did find this. But in most of the pics, you can't see it.


----------



## hunterhewi (Jun 12, 2010)

DougKMN said:


> I will agree that this has been framed to make it look as deliberate as possible.
> 
> Did they drag the bait through the reserve with the express intent of luring a protected animal out? If so, is this legal?
> 
> ...


Again the animal was NOT protected. He was free to come and go as he pleased. This time curiousity killed the damn cat!


----------



## Rolo (Dec 16, 2002)

DougKMN said:


> Point blank, he shot it somewhere in which it wasn't legal.


Point blank...the only reliable (at most) information out there suggests that the land owner did not have an allotted license to allow a lion to be killed on his property. A prior allotment had recently expired unfilled. None of that information suggests the hunter was aware of any of that, or that he had a reason to be aware of any of that.




DougKMN said:


> Imo, Palmer's awareness of the illegality of the hunt don't absolve him of consequence. He is the one that ultimately broke the law. I don't think "the guide said it was ok" is a valid defense.


Really? What is the law he broke? What are the elements of the law he broke? Seriously...awareness of an illegality of an act IS actually required more often than it is not...i.e. knowingly, intentionally, etc. performing an act...

The only uniform information out there relates to the land owner, and PH and what they may have done that violated the law. The other uniform information is that the dentist had the appropriate licence that allowed him to kill a lion.

Why are you so willing to label and "convict" without having all of the information or knowing the elements of the law(s) that may or may not have been violated?


----------



## hunterhewi (Jun 12, 2010)

Rolo said:


> Point blank...the only reliable (at most) information out there suggests that the land owner did not have an allotted license to allow a lion to be killed on his property. A prior allotment had recently expired unfilled. None of that information suggests the hunter was aware of any of that, or that he had a reason to be aware of any of that.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Because in his feeble little mind, he broke the law once so now he automatically does every time he hunts.


----------



## Elvis_Is_Dead (Nov 25, 2009)

^^^ Well I'm not too fond of my dentist if that helps any. He has a 6000 Sq Foot mansion. :teeth:


----------



## spencer12 (Dec 21, 2009)

DougKMN said:


> I will agree that this has been framed to make it look as deliberate as possible.
> 
> Did they drag the bait through the reserve with the express intent of luring a protected animal out? If so, is this legal?
> 
> ...


I haven't read this entire thread or your posts for that matter. I'm assuming your upset about this right? I get that but why? Being honest here. You don't like poachers, cool me either but why do you go through so much trouble to argue with people who arent going to change their minds. I for one could care zero, nada, zilch, nonezos about a lion a dentist killed. What I'm asking, and not trying to sound rude, why do people who share your view on the subject care so much about this lion? Are you genuinely more upset about this then things that matter? Like our security, Nukes being delt out to the middle east, mexican cartels waging wars on our soil, isis members popping up in major cities across the states, china flexing their muscles , russia glaring at us from moscow, you know things that could turn us into a cecil.


----------



## hunterhewi (Jun 12, 2010)

Elvis_Is_Dead said:


> ^^^ Well I'm not too fond of my dentist if that helps any. He has a 6000 Sq Foot mansion. :teeth:


Yea i get jealous because my dentist went to school and busted his ass to get where he is. Just makes me sick that he has more $$ than me because he chose his profession.


----------



## Elvis_Is_Dead (Nov 25, 2009)

hunterhewi said:


> Yea i get jealous because my dentist went to school and busted his ass to get where he is. Just makes me sick that he has more $$ than me because he chose his profession.


Clearly it's Obama's fault.


----------



## DougKMN (Nov 7, 2006)

Rolo said:


> Point blank...the only reliable (at most) information out there suggests that the land owner did not have an allotted license to allow a lion to be killed on his property. A prior allotment had recently expired unfilled. None of that information suggests the hunter was aware of any of that, or that he had a reason to be aware of any of that.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Already answered. Shot a lion where it wasn't legal to do so. The ph didn't shoot it, the farmer didn't shoot it. Palmer did.

Awareness of the law generally comes into play when sentencing.

If I drive through Virginia with a radar detector (pretty sure it's Virginia where they are illegal), I wouldn't expect to get away with it by claiming "I didn't know". I might be able to get a lesser fine in court because of it, but not out of it completely.


----------



## hunterhewi (Jun 12, 2010)

Elvis_Is_Dead said:


> Clearly it's Obama's fault.


Well.....mostly lol


----------



## DougKMN (Nov 7, 2006)

hunterhewi said:


> Because in his feeble little mind, he broke the law once so now he automatically does every time he hunts.


And in your even feebler mind, this guy gets a pass on his breaking the law...


----------



## MattEilerman (May 29, 2015)

hunterhewi said:


> You really need to stop. You make yourself look more dumb with every post you make.


And you're making the entire hunting community look ignorant and foolish. No one on this site is attacking hunting. Unless you just have no life, everyone on this forum is probably a hunter, and we want to protect what we have, which means respecting the land and animals we hunt and ensuring they are pursued and killed in an ethical and lawful manner. The numbskull dentist illegally took the lion, that's not according to me, that's according to the law. Your agreement is irrelevant. The professional hunter and land owner have both been indicted on poaching related charges. I'm not going to cite my sources in a bibliography for you at the end of this post but you're free to research this all yourself. It's true. Does all of this mean I'm attacking the nincumpoop dentist personally, no? But his idiotic actions are bringing a negative light on the hunting community and you supporting his disregard for the law (knowingly or not) is perpetuating a negative connotation. And continually badgering people on the internet to provide you with proof so you can blindly argue the contrary makes you look childish


----------



## DougKMN (Nov 7, 2006)

MattEilerman said:


> And you're making the entire hunting community look ignorant and foolish. No one on this site is attacking hunting. Unless you just have no life, everyone on this forum is probably a hunter, and we want to protect what we have, which means respecting the land and animals we hunt and ensuring they are pursued and killed in an ethical and lawful manner. The numbskull dentist illegally took the lion, that's not according to me, that's according to the law. Your agreement is irrelevant. The professional hunter and land owner have both been indicted on poaching related charges. I'm not going to cite my sources in a bibliography for you at the end of this post but you're free to research this all yourself. It's true. Does all of this mean I'm attacking the nincumpoop dentist personally, no? But his idiotic actions are bringing a negative light on the hunting community and you supporting his disregard for the law (knowingly or not) is perpetuating a negative connotation. And continually badgering people on the internet to provide you with proof so you can blindly argue the contrary makes you look childish


Well stated


----------



## Elvis_Is_Dead (Nov 25, 2009)

DougKMN said:


> And in your even feebler mind, this guy gets a pass on his breaking the law...


Even if he did knowingly break the law... something that hasn't been proven....
It would be up to Zimbabwe to deal with it... within the guidelines of their laws... not US laws.

What crime against the US has he commited? And so the US really has no jurisdiction, and I don't believe the US has the right to hand him over to Zimbabwe on UNPROVEN charges.


----------



## MattEilerman (May 29, 2015)

If I were attacking the dentist personally I'd probably make a snide remark about using a crossbow, which is silly to even be considered a piece of archery equipment anyway. But that's my opinion. Not what's being argued here. And I apologize in advance for the offended people of my crossbow remark


----------



## DougKMN (Nov 7, 2006)

Elvis_Is_Dead said:


> Even if he did knowingly break the law... something that hasn't been proven....
> It would be up to Zimbabwe to deal with it... within the guidelines of there laws... not US laws.
> 
> What crime against the US has he commited? And so the US really has no jurisdiction, and I don't believe the US has the right to hand him over to Zimbabwe on UNPROVEN charges.


Completely irrelevant.

If the us receives an extradition notice from a country in which we have a treaty, it isn't on us to prove or disprove the charges. That falls to the foreign court.


----------



## Elvis_Is_Dead (Nov 25, 2009)

MattEilerman said:


> If I were attacking the dentist personally I'd probably make a snide remark about using a crossbow, which is silly to even be considered a piece of archery equipment anyway. But that's my opinion. Not what's being argued here. And I apologize in advance for the offended people of my crossbow remark


LOL - as if the thread subject wasn't polarized enough.


----------



## hunterhewi (Jun 12, 2010)

MattEilerman said:


> And you're making the entire hunting community look ignorant and foolish. No one on this site is attacking hunting. Unless you just have no life, everyone on this forum is probably a hunter, and we want to protect what we have, which means respecting the land and animals we hunt and ensuring they are pursued and killed in an ethical and lawful manner. The numbskull dentist illegally took the lion, that's not according to me, that's according to the law. Your agreement is irrelevant. The professional hunter and land owner have both been indicted on poaching related charges. I'm not going to cite my sources in a bibliography for you at the end of this post but you're free to research this all yourself. It's true. Does all of this mean I'm attacking the nincumpoop dentist personally, no? But his idiotic actions are bringing a negative light on the hunting community and you supporting his disregard for the law (knowingly or not) is perpetuating a negative connotation. And continually badgering people on the internet to provide you with proof so you can blindly argue the contrary makes you look childish


Again you have no proof lawman


----------



## Rolo (Dec 16, 2002)

DougKMN said:


> Already answered. Shot a lion where it wasn't legal to do so. The ph didn't shoot it, the farmer didn't shoot it. Palmer did.


Apparently, there's a comprehension problem here. What law did the dentist break? Allowing someone to kill a lion on land where one does not have a permit to allow the killing of the lion is the crime of the person who allowed the killing of the lion. The person who killed the lion, who had the proper license to kill the lion broke what?



DougKMN said:


> Awareness of the law generally comes into play when sentencing.


Wow...that's so stupidly wrong I can't believe it was stated..._mens rea_ is a requirement for the large majority of criminal law violations...




DougKMN said:


> If I drive through Virginia with a radar detector (pretty sure it's Virginia where they are illegal), I wouldn't expect to get away with it by claiming "I didn't know". I might be able to get a lesser fine in court because of it, but not out of it completely.


Actually, and of course this would require a minimal understanding of American jurisprudence, there are a limited number of strict liability crimes that have no _mens rea_ requirement. Of course these are low level offenses, and do not result in felony convictions or prison sentences of more than a year...

But, by all means, please continue posting and proving it...


----------



## Elvis_Is_Dead (Nov 25, 2009)

DougKMN said:


> Completely irrelevant.
> 
> If the us receives an extradition notice from a country in which we have a treaty, it isn't on us to prove or disprove the charges. That falls to the foreign court.


:nono: Not irrelevant.

Someone in the US would have to decide if extradition is justified. And what will they base that decision on... Hmmm? The bias in the biased reports in the media?

Or the facts as we know them... that is... what can be proven? What do you think?


----------



## Ptoid (Mar 8, 2014)

zap said:


> Zimbabwe is asking for extradition.....supposedly, according to Reuters.


Quoting actual sources! Youre breaking the rules here. 

I heard this guy invited clients to hos house and fed them unicorn steaks. Paid 37,000 to shoot Elmo.


----------



## Rolo (Dec 16, 2002)

MattEilerman said:


> And you're making the entire hunting community look ignorant and foolish. No one on this site is attacking hunting. Unless you just have no life, everyone on this forum is probably a hunter, and we want to protect what we have, which means respecting the land and animals we hunt and ensuring they are pursued and killed in an ethical and lawful manner. The numbskull dentist illegally took the lion, that's not according to me, that's according to the law. Your agreement is irrelevant. The professional hunter and land owner have both been indicted on poaching related charges. I'm not going to cite my sources in a bibliography for you at the end of this post but you're free to research this all yourself. It's true. Does all of this mean I'm attacking the nincumpoop dentist personally, no? But his idiotic actions are bringing a negative light on the hunting community and you supporting his disregard for the law (knowingly or not) is perpetuating a negative connotation. And continually badgering people on the internet to provide you with proof so you can blindly argue the contrary makes you look childish


Actually, the PH is the only person who is currently facing charges in Zimbabwe. The land owner has been released without being charged. (Enter speculation about the corrupt nature of the law and politics in Zimbabwe).

Again...other than supposition, please point to actual evidence that the dentist did anything illegal under the law of Zimbabwe. Why is it so hard for folks to wait until the evidence, all of it is actually in before making decisions? Reactionary, chicken littles, are the epitome of ignorance and fools...


----------



## Rolo (Dec 16, 2002)

Ptoid said:


> Quoting actual sources! Youre breaking the rules here.
> 
> I heard this guy invited clients to hos house and fed them unicorn steaks. Paid 37,000 to shoot Elmo.


And from what I read, if accurate, the request to extradite is so that officials in Zimbabwe can question him about what occurred. Questioning is not an extraditable condition. He is first going to need to be formally charged with a crime in Zimbabwe (not difficult for them to do), then a formal request to extradite needs to be made. From there, the USDOJ is supposed to compare the foreign charge to a charge in the US to determine whether they are sufficiently similar to allow extradition of a US citizen under the treaty.

That of course places some faith that the USDOJ will actually do its job. Assuming an extradition warrant is entered, then it will be up to review by the appropriate Federal Courts, should the dentist chose to fight the extradition, that may or may not be ordered...


----------



## Elvis_Is_Dead (Nov 25, 2009)

It might be interesting to see what was actually written down in the agreement between the PH and Palmer.

Probably nothing written down about what animals could be shot... but you never know. For $50K, I would think something would be written down on paper.


----------



## Ol' red beard (Sep 2, 2013)

I know not everyone likes him but Cameron hanes posted a video on YouTube and discussed this issue and imo is spot on. Check it out, I will say it's a bit of a long video.


----------



## DougKMN (Nov 7, 2006)

Elvis_Is_Dead said:


> :nono: Not irrelevant.
> 
> Someone in the US would have to decide if extradition is justified. And what will they base that decision on... Hmmm? The bias in the biased reports in the media?
> 
> Or the facts as we know them... that is... what can be proven? What do you think?


Laws broken in the us are irrelevant in an extradition case, unless he had outstanding punishment here.

The facts are to be decided by the Zimbabwe court if extradition happens. The extradition official doesn't get to say there's no proof.


----------



## _rj_ (May 23, 2014)

I'm actually surprised that some of you are saying it wasn't his responsibility to preform due diligence of the hunt. 

Would you buy an out of state tag and just show up and hunt however and wherever you felt without reading the regulations? 

Yes, he hired a guide. So? Not every place has regulations on guides or becoming a guide. Even then any schmuck can create a website and say they're a guide. 

There's two sides to every story. Then there's the truth...


----------



## Rolo (Dec 16, 2002)

DougKMN said:


> Laws broken in the us are irrelevant in an extradition case, unless he had outstanding punishment here.
> 
> The facts are to be decided by the Zimbabwe court if extradition happens. The extradition official doesn't get to say there's no proof.


You might actually want to go read the extradition treaty, or at least a reliable summary of it, before you go posting stuff that isn't accurate...oh, a little understanding of extradition law, and a little thing called "Due Process" is helpful...


----------



## 09blackonblack (Nov 9, 2011)

Well according to the media, they are calling for an extradition...


----------



## Rolo (Dec 16, 2002)

_rj_ said:


> I'm actually surprised that some of you are saying it wasn't his responsibility to preform due diligence of the hunt.
> 
> Would you buy an out of state tag and just show up and hunt however and wherever you felt without reading the regulations?
> 
> ...


Don't think anyone is saying that...but you also cannot place your North American experience and knowledge with the same relevance of what occurs in Zimbabwe. Profession Hunters are more than guides, and can and should be relied upon for their knowledge of not only the animals being hunted, but of the applicable laws and regulations that are in play. Combine that with language barrier issues, and the reliance on PHs is even more appropriate. Their ability to speak and read the language is crucial.

The due diligence is researching and hiring a PH that is part of the organization that is recognized by the government (Zimbabwe in this circumstance). By all accounts, the PH that the dentist hired fulfilled this requirement.

Hunting in Africa is a whole different ballgame than hunting in North America, and traditionally, reliance on the knowledge of the Professional Hunter is accepted and universally recognized as appropriate.


----------



## Slingshot (Jan 1, 2008)

I guess I'll jump in on this....

Seems nobody wants to discuss what would have happened if any other lion showed up at the bait......

Wait for it.... 

Nothing, not a damn thing. Hunter goes home with a lion and the PH and landowner continue to offer lion hints just like they do every other day. 

The hypocrisy is unbelievable, does anybody actually think this is the first lion hunt that took place next to the preserve. 

This lion is soooooo popular that nobody heard of it until now, I've never heard of a lion named Cecil and neither has 98% of all the people commenting on the subject. He's reported to be collared, so where are all the photos of the most photographed lion in history wearing it? 

And now the president is commenting on this? It's insanity this guy got a bad deal end of story. He doesn't deserve to lose his entire life including his business because people care more about animals than they do each other.


----------



## Eric W (Jan 16, 2007)

DougKMN said:


> Already answered. Shot a lion where it wasn't legal to do so. The ph didn't shoot it, the farmer didn't shoot it. Palmer did.
> 
> Awareness of the law generally comes into play when sentencing.
> 
> If I drive through Virginia with a radar detector (pretty sure it's Virginia where they are illegal), I wouldn't expect to get away with it by claiming "I didn't know". I might be able to get a lesser fine in court because of it, but not out of it completely.


If the law requires me to pay a state-licensed driving instructor good $$$ to accompany me on a drive where I have to pay another state employee (toll collector) to access a certain road, and I get busted for having a radar detector, I'm going to be mad as hell at the two state-authorized agents for not informing me of the local regulations. I would also take them to court to have my expenses and penalties reimbursed.


----------



## DougKMN (Nov 7, 2006)

Eric W said:


> If the law requires me to pay a state-licensed driving instructor good $$$ to accompany me on a drive where I have to pay another state employee (toll collector) to access a certain road, and I get busted for having a radar detector, I'm going to be mad as hell at the two state-authorized agents for not informing me of the local regulations. I would also take them to court to have my expenses and penalties reimbursed.


As you should. That doesn't absolve you of responsibility though, imo.


----------



## Elvis_Is_Dead (Nov 25, 2009)

DougKMN said:


> Laws broken in the us are irrelevant in an extradition case, unless he had outstanding punishment here.
> 
> The facts are to be decided by the Zimbabwe court if extradition happens. The extradition official doesn't get to say there's no proof.


Yeah... from what I'm reading... it's unlikely US will turn a citizen over to Zimbabwe which is run by a corrupt dictator.

However prosecuting him here in the US... under the "Lacey Act" is being seriously considered.


----------



## Eric W (Jan 16, 2007)

DougKMN said:


> As you should. That doesn't absolve you of responsibility though, imo.


Then what's the point of hiring a state-sanctioned professional? If I was going with a buddy's cousin who was there once then, yes, it is 100% on me. But if I'm am required to hire a government representative, then it is up to him to say, "no, you can't do that."


----------



## Elvis_Is_Dead (Nov 25, 2009)

The thing is Doug, this reminds me of Ferguson. And if this guy is found innocent, when so many have pronounced him guilty... are the animal rights whacko's going to riot and pull another "occupy" on us?

I'm pretty surprised at how many view him guilty until proven innocent. The media feels they have done their job, and they're not done yet.

PETA wants him *hanged*.


----------



## Eric W (Jan 16, 2007)

Slingshot said:


> He's reported to be collared, so where are all the photos of the most photographed lion in history wearing it?


I've seen plenty of photos and video of this lion this week and, no matter how hard I look, I can't see any collar under that thick mane. I'm not saying it wasn't there, just that it wasn't visible.


----------



## Elvis_Is_Dead (Nov 25, 2009)

Slingshot said:


> He's reported to be collared, so where are all the photos of the most photographed lion in history wearing it?





Eric W said:


> I've seen plenty of photos and video of this lion this week and, no matter how hard I look, I can't see any collar under that thick mane. I'm not saying it wasn't there, just that it wasn't visible.


LOL - you gotta google "Cecil the Friendly Lion Wearing Collar" :wink:


----------



## Rolo (Dec 16, 2002)

Elvis_Is_Dead said:


> However prosecuting him here in the US... under the "Lacey Act" is being seriously considered.


Trying to figure out what possible violation there could be under the Lacey Act based on the published information, and having a really hard time figuring out what provision could be stretched that far...


----------



## Elvis_Is_Dead (Nov 25, 2009)

Rolo said:


> Trying to figure out what possible violation there could be under the Lacey Act based on the published information, and having a really hard time figuring out what provision could be stretched that far...


It's a stretch. I'm just gonna wait until all the facts come out. I'm not convinced he's not guilty... but I sure as heck am not going to pronounce him guilty until proven so.

One thing I haven't determined is if he actually used an XBow (which is illegal in Zimbabwe, unless you apply 6 mo ahead of time for special permit).

Xbows are considered poacher's weapons over there... like shooting a gun, only no loud bang. They are generally frowned upon for this reason, and it is quite a bit more to pay for the special permit.

So you got to wonder about that IMO.


----------



## Beendare (Jan 31, 2006)

MattEilerman said:


> And you're making the entire hunting community look ignorant and foolish. No one on this site is attacking hunting. Unless you just have no life, everyone on this forum is probably a hunter, and we want to protect what we have, which means respecting the land and animals we hunt and ensuring they are pursued and killed in an ethical and lawful manner. The numbskull dentist illegally took the lion, that's not according to me, that's according to the law. Your agreement is irrelevant. The professional hunter and land owner have both been indicted on poaching related charges. I'm not going to cite my sources in a bibliography for you at the end of this post but you're free to research this all yourself. It's true. Does all of this mean I'm attacking the nincumpoop dentist personally, no? But his idiotic actions are bringing a negative light on the hunting community and you supporting his disregard for the law (knowingly or not) is perpetuating a negative connotation. And continually badgering people on the internet to provide you with proof so you can blindly argue the contrary makes you look childish


You sir have no idea how things work in Zimbabwe....or for that matter how the slanted media frames a story. 

"Its true"......what do you know to be true? What some bleeding heart animal rights person writing the article says?

Cmon, Have a logical thought. The dentist paid the outfitter to provide him a legal hunt within a country that has no marked boundaries and the Rules are made by corrupt politicians where $500 is a boatload of money. Then we have the US fed gov jumping on the bandwagon to appease the PETA folks telling Zim to go after the dentist- for what? For hiring the wrong guide? This is a smoke screen for the white house to stir the pot once again and take away from the real news-median income for US citizens has dropped again, our economy is sputtering...but Oh, what about the lion? 

Just wait and see what happens to Zimbabwe if SCI calls for a boycott of US hunters over there....then we will hear the real story


----------



## Rolo (Dec 16, 2002)

Elvis_Is_Dead said:


> It's a stretch. I'm just gonna wait until all the facts come out. I'm not convinced he's not guilty... but I sure as heck am not going to pronounce him guilty until proven so.
> 
> One thing I haven't determined is if he actually used an XBow (which is illegal in Zimbabwe, unless you apply 6 mo ahead of time for special permit).
> 
> ...


Agreed...I have no idea whether he is guilty or not...I am sure that in the Court of misguided public opinion, he is guilty, and the spawn of Satan himself.

I also know that the media probably can't tell the difference between bows, and don't care to know. The available "evidence" the picture suggests a regular old compound bow.

And, don't tell Doug, but in order for him to be "convicted" of a Lacey Act violation, either civilly or criminally, the government has to prove that he: 

in the exercise of due care should know that...(civil); and/or: 

knowingly imports or exports any...or...by knowingly engaging in conduct that involves the sale or purchase of...or...knowingly engages in conduct prohibited by any provision of this chapter...(criminal).

Darned mental elements getting in the way of Doug's theory of guilt by implication...

Of course, one also is not really "convicted" of a civil violation, nor is it considered an indication of "guilt" in a criminal sense either...


----------



## Rolo (Dec 16, 2002)

Beendare said:


> Cmon, Have a logical thought. The dentist paid the outfitter to provide him a legal hunt within a country that has no marked boundaries and the Rules are made by corrupt politicians where $500 is a boatload of money. Then we have the US fed gov jumping on the bandwagon to appease the PETA folks telling Zim to go after the dentist- for what? For hiring the wrong guide? This is a smoke screen for the white house to stir the pot once again and take away from the real news-median income for US citizens has dropped again, our economy is sputtering...but Oh, what about the lion?


I truly hope it is not so much of a smoke screen, but more of a "we'll make a public statement to satisfy the village idiots, and know that they will forget about this by next week". The old: We hear your concerns and will check into it approach, with no intent what so ever to actually check into it...just an intent to get the stupid folks to shut up...

Though, with this administration, you can never tell...


----------



## Rolo (Dec 16, 2002)

...


----------



## highwaynorth (Feb 17, 2005)

Elvis_Is_Dead said:


> The thing is Doug, this reminds me of Ferguson. And if this guy is found innocent, when so many have pronounced him guilty... are the animal rights whacko's going to riot and pull another "occupy" on us?
> 
> I'm pretty surprised at how many view him guilty until proven innocent. The media feels they have done their job, and they're not done yet.
> 
> PETA wants him *hanged*.


No, the media will quietly move on after successfully destroying another individuals life, while patting each
other on the back, mission accomplished.


----------



## highwaynorth (Feb 17, 2005)

Beendare said:


> You sir have no idea how things work in Zimbabwe....or for that matter how the slanted media frames a story.
> 
> "Its true"......what do you know to be true? What some bleeding heart animal rights person writing the article says?
> 
> ...


Obama will export a U.S. citizen being accused of poaching, but not an illegal alien felon.


----------



## highwaynorth (Feb 17, 2005)

quote, Zimbabwe which is run by a corrupt dictator

So is the U.S.


----------



## Outdoorsman63 (Aug 22, 2011)

highwaynorth said:


> quote, Zimbabwe which is run by a corrupt dictator
> 
> So is the U.S.


BAM!!!...........that would be funny if it weren't true.


----------



## namozine (Mar 15, 2013)

Beendare said:


> You sir have no idea how things work in Zimbabwe....or for that matter how the slanted media frames a story.
> 
> "Its true"......what do you know to be true? What some bleeding heart animal rights person writing the article says?
> 
> ...


Exactly... Let them stop safaris and lose that income...
There won't be a wild lion or rhino left in Africa in 10 years...


----------



## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

Choot the cat and say BOYAAAAA.


----------



## 138104 (May 14, 2009)

I heard he shot it with a Mathews crossbow. No wonder he didn't kill it quickly.


----------



## 3dn4jc (Jun 25, 2007)

If Obama had a lion He would be just like Cecil, just saying.:mg:


----------



## Bowtechforlife (Apr 17, 2014)

Do you think when a lion kills a human the other lions go and boycott and attack that lion? No. They eat the human.

People are crazy. I will say though that if he did knowingly poach the lion than he should be punished.


----------



## Red Sparky (Dec 24, 2013)

I looked into my crystal ball and this is what I see happening. The public outcry over this is going to change the laws. The U.S. Government, through Congress or USFWS, is going to make the importation of lions and elephant parts illegal. You can go hunt them and kill them but you can't bring them back into the U.S.. Just like when wolves were on the endangered species list you could go hunt them in Canada and Alaska but could not bring them back into the lower 48.

Now who are you going to blame when this happens? A dentist that killed a lion, whether legal or not, and had a history of lying about killing a bear in a closed area and saying it was in an open area. He loaded the gun for PETA and aimed it at hunters with his actions. So support him if you want or light him up in the electric chair, call him a hunter or poacher, we are all going to pay for his stupidity/ignorance/ethics.


----------



## COArrow (Nov 24, 2013)

Red Sparky said:


> I looked into my crystal ball and this is what I see happening. The public outcry over this is going to change the laws. The U.S. Government, through Congress or USFWS, is going to make the importation of lions and elephant parts illegal. You can go hunt them and kill them but you can't bring them back into the U.S.. Just like when wolves were on the endangered species list you could go hunt them in Canada and Alaska but could not bring them back into the lower 48.
> 
> Now who are you going to blame when this happens? A dentist that killed a lion, whether legal or not, and had a history of lying about killing a bear in a closed area and saying it was in an open area. He loaded the gun for PETA and aimed it at hunters with his actions. So support him if you want or light him up in the electric chair, call him a hunter or poacher, we are all going to pay for his stupidity/ignorance/ethics.


I agree and so do most hunters. You will not convince the internet cowboys though.


----------



## Slingshot (Jan 1, 2008)

Elvis_Is_Dead said:


> LOL - you gotta google "Cecil the Friendly Lion Wearing Collar" :wink:


Well that's about as clear as mud....

Not likely able to be seen in low light, especially when your not looking for it. 

Everybody dropped the ball here, but what would you do? Go to the officials and say sorry my mistake, no way not in Zimbabwe. I understand why he left, remember it's not the U.S. There are no clear rules only what you can buy. 

I think this represents why this country is so out of line, people just sit around waiting to be offended, regardless of logic. It's mind boggling how someone who says they care so much about the life of an animal, that the life of a human didn't matter. I've seen more comments about how this man should die than anything else. 

Everybody's a keyboard cowboy


----------



## PY Bucks (Feb 14, 2006)

"Give him the chair. The chair." Beavis


----------



## Red Sparky (Dec 24, 2013)

COArrow said:


> I agree and so do most hunters. You will not convince the internet cowboys though.


After reading all post I completely agree with that statement.


----------



## namozine (Mar 15, 2013)

It's been on borrowed time for a long time...
My crystal ball tells me that well within the next 50 years there will not only be no hunting, but no private ownership of firearms...
This country was irretrievably lost on a November night in 2012...
I'm sure glad I won't live long enough to see it...


----------



## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

Red Sparky said:


> I looked into my crystal ball and this is what I see happening. The public outcry over this is going to change the laws. The U.S. Government, through Congress or USFWS, is going to make the importation of lions and elephant parts illegal. You can go hunt them and kill them but you can't bring them back into the U.S.. Just like when wolves were on the endangered species list you could go hunt them in Canada and Alaska but could not bring them back into the lower 48.
> 
> Now who are you going to blame when this happens? A dentist that killed a lion, whether legal or not, and had a history of lying about killing a bear in a closed area and saying it was in an open area. He loaded the gun for PETA and aimed it at hunters with his actions. So support him if you want or light him up in the electric chair, call him a hunter or poacher, we are all going to pay for his stupidity/ignorance/ethics.


It is scary that some people will agree with this. You can find some incident to attempt the justification of banning anything you want to. We The people actually have a say in what laws are passed, the problem is only the irrational folks dare to speak out. Folks need to grow a set and not tolerate this chit.


----------



## COArrow (Nov 24, 2013)

zap said:


> It is scary that some people will agree with this. You can find some incident to attempt the justification of banning anything you want to. We The people actually have a say in what laws are passed, the problem is only the irrational folks dare to speak out. Folks need to grow a set and not tolerate this chit.


He is actually a normal responsible hunter, you are going out of your way to support a guy who had deep enough pockets to settle a sexual harassment issue and federal poaching issue who finally found himself in a place he can't buy his way out. You are the minority. However I don't expect any less, you can't even keep your word about no longer posting here. I have no doubt since you support the dentist if you had money you would behave in the same manner....


----------



## flopduster (Nov 3, 2009)

With the anti hunting agenda, they are constantly looking for a martyr for their cause, it was only a matter of time before they found one. This unlucky guy whether knowing or not have them the biggest gift they have had in a long time and they are gonna use it any way they can. That's what they do.


----------



## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

COArrow said:


> He is actually a normal responsible hunter, you are going out of your way to support a guy who had deep enough pockets to settle a sexual harassment issue and federal poaching issue who finally found himself in a place he can't buy his way out. You are the minority. However I don't expect any less, you can't even keep your word about no longer posting here. I have no doubt since you support the dentist if you had money you would behave in the same manner....


Settling lawsuits and settling charges brought by the feds are standard practice for both guilty and innocent people. The government settles lawsuits all the time. Promoting that someone is guilty without any type of fair trial or fair investigation is very contrary to my beliefs. 

But running scared of what the bad anti hunting people will do to you because of one persons actions is pitiful. Its submitting to a pre planned agenda that was waiting for a posterboy. Folks that would sell this guy down the river at this point of time in order to "secure" some freedoms for themselves are extremely sad individuals.


----------



## COArrow (Nov 24, 2013)

zap said:


> Settling lawsuits and settling charges brought by the feds are standard practice for both guilty and innocent people. The government settles lawsuits all the time. Promoting that someone is guilty without any type of fair trial or fair investigation is very contrary to my beliefs.
> 
> But running scared of what the bad anti hunting people will do to you because of one persons actions is pitiful. Its submitting to a pre planned agenda that was waiting for a posterboy. Folks that would sell this guy down the river at this point of time in order to "secure" some freedoms for themselves are extremely sad individuals.


Only person running and hiding in the moment is your dentist...


----------



## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

He is not my dentist and staying out of the spotlight is the correct thing to do at his time.


----------



## COArrow (Nov 24, 2013)

zap said:


> He is not my dentist and staying out of the spotlight is the correct thing to do at his time.


Lol...


----------



## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

COArrow said:


> Lol...


I take comfort in the thought that I am not you.

:cocktail:


----------



## COArrow (Nov 24, 2013)

zap said:


> I take comfort in the thought that I am not you.
> 
> :cocktail:


Trust me it is mutual, I keep my word.


----------



## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

Your a regular legend in your own mind.......congratulations.

You have convicted someone without hearing the actual "two sides" and evidence, other than what the media has presented. The same media that gave us "hands up do not shoot"....and have done so because you think it will protect "your" hunting rights. Its pathetic, brother.


----------



## COArrow (Nov 24, 2013)

zap said:


> Your a regular legend in your own mind.......congratulations.
> 
> You have convicted someone without hearing the actual "two sides" and evidence, other than what the media has presented. The same media that gave us "hands up do not shoot"....and have done so because you think it will protect "your" hunting rights. Its pathetic, brother.


I won't give the benefit of doubt to a guy who has sexually harassed and poached in the past and now runs and hides. An experienced African hunter all of sudden blames his guide for not have a permit for the land they are hunting? That is about as likely as you keeping your word you would no longer post here.


----------



## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

Your like the media, take half a truth and spread it as a truth. 

Your as poor of an excuse for an American as the anti's. Respond as you like I am done answering your BS.....have a nice night.


----------



## COArrow (Nov 24, 2013)

zap said:


> Your like the media, take half a truth and spread it as a truth.
> 
> Your as poor of an excuse for an American as the anti's. Respond as you like I am done answering your BS.....have a nice night.


I am guessing AT is pretty important part of you life. It is yours, enjoy it, won't quote you again. Enjoy.


----------



## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

COArrow said:


> I am guessing AT is pretty important part of you life. It is yours, enjoy it, won't quote you again. Enjoy.



:elf_moon:

:darkbeer:

Apparently I changed my mind......:chortle:


----------



## COArrow (Nov 24, 2013)




----------



## Elvis_Is_Dead (Nov 25, 2009)

^^^ don't you ever shutup?


----------



## COArrow (Nov 24, 2013)

Elvis_Is_Dead said:


> ^^^ don't you ever shutup?


Me or zap or you?


----------



## Elvis_Is_Dead (Nov 25, 2009)

You're one of the more contrary people I see on AT, and are constantly arguing with people.

Don't you ever get tired of always being a PITA?

Did you learn from Dale_B1 or something?


----------



## KimberTac1911 (Feb 27, 2012)

spencer12 said:


> I haven't read this entire thread or your posts for that matter. I'm assuming your upset about this right? I get that but why? Being honest here. You don't like poachers, cool me either but why do you go through so much trouble to argue with people who arent going to change their minds. I for one could care zero, nada, zilch, nonezos about a lion a dentist killed. What I'm asking, and not trying to sound rude, why do people who share your view on the subject care so much about this lion? Are you genuinely more upset about this then things that matter? Like our security, Nukes being delt out to the middle east, mexican cartels waging wars on our soil, isis members popping up in major cities across the states, china flexing their muscles , russia glaring at us from moscow, you know things that could turn us into a cecil.


I see your point. What gets me is everybody cares about Cecil but not the lions that are poached on a regular basis. I got in an argument at work about this. The person had no clue on how things worked over there for hunting or here. She didnt even know about locals poisoning carcasses with pesticides. People are so quick to jump the gun with hunters, with no knowledge on subject. Same thing with gun rights and laws. If the guy poached let him pay for crimes. I will make a decision once theres facts out in open. But i will give a shout out to SCI and say thanks. They have spent more money on protecting animals in Africa then the liberal groups pointing fingers"yelling you dont care about the lions"


----------



## COArrow (Nov 24, 2013)

Elvis_Is_Dead said:


> You're one of the more contrary people I see on AT, and are constantly arguing with people.
> 
> Don't you ever get tired of always being a PITA?
> 
> Did you learn from Dale_B1 or something?


I got challenged and posted all the proof for my statements on this thread. If you find reality and truth as contrarian I feel bad. All of a sudden the crazed right wants social welfare for one of their peeps on AT. If you can't stand behind what you post, just don't post.


----------



## GO G.W. (Oct 23, 2004)

I tried to google the story and find it some where in an African or Zimbabwe news station and could only come up with this.

http://wabx.net/news/articles/2015/jul/31/what-lion-zimbabweans-ask-amid-global-cecil-circus/

Seems the "beloved" lion is just another lion to the people and the government of Zimbabwe, seems there may be something more "political" about the whole thing.


----------



## Elvis_Is_Dead (Nov 25, 2009)

COArrow said:


> I got challenged and posted all the proof for my statements on this thread. If you find reality and truth as contrarian I feel bad. All of a sudden the crazed right wants social welfare for one of their peeps on AT. If you can't stand behind what you post, just don't post.


Physician... heal yourself


----------



## COArrow (Nov 24, 2013)

Elvis_Is_Dead said:


> Physician... heal yourself


Please, I am not a Physician


----------



## Elvis_Is_Dead (Nov 25, 2009)

COArrow said:


> Please, I am not a Physician


Always time to learn :teeth:


----------



## COArrow (Nov 24, 2013)

Elvis_Is_Dead said:


> Always time to learn :teeth:


I cover other areas and married someone who covers those, so I think am I good. Thanks though.


----------



## Elvis_Is_Dead (Nov 25, 2009)

COArrow said:


> I cover other areas and married someone who covers those, so I think am I good. Thanks though.


Anytime


----------



## chevman (Nov 3, 2006)

In the jungle...the mighty jungle..the lion sleeps tonight. Good riddence ***** cat.


----------



## rustyhart (Feb 20, 2014)




----------



## snakescales (May 12, 2015)

The guy should be in trouble for technically poaching. But these sanctimonious animal rights people are insane. As far as I know PETA never contributed any $ for even one acre of animal habitat conservation. Hunters do the lion's share (ha-ha too soon?). But then again, I'm preaching to the choir.


----------



## Bulldog2nine (Jul 11, 2015)

Hands up don't shoot? Sound familiar to anyone? The media must be right, they are the media!! We don't have all the facts, just his priors and in court, priors aren't considered. The animal is dead and not coming back, a set back with some patience would do this country some good, before we send this guy back to Africa and they for sure kill him. I hear their dictator loves white people.


----------



## COArrow (Nov 24, 2013)

Bulldog2nine said:


> Hands up don't shoot? Sound familiar to anyone? The media must be right, they are the media!! We don't have all the facts, just his priors and in court, priors aren't considered. The animal is dead and not coming back, a set back with some patience would do this country some good, before we send this guy back to Africa and they for sure kill him. I hear their dictator loves white people.


they only thing illegal issue we know for sure is the land he was hunting was not allotted a lion tag for 2015. That actually does matter...


----------



## Bulldog2nine (Jul 11, 2015)

My facts maybe wrong, but did they no lure him out to shoot him? The parks I have been to in Africa have been high fence preserves to keep poachers out. If this had a fence, how did the "lure him out", if I didn't have one, well why not haha, if this Lion was a such an icon.


----------



## COArrow (Nov 24, 2013)

Bulldog2nine said:


> My facts maybe wrong, but did they no lure him out to shoot him? The parks I have been to in Africa have been high fence preserves to keep poachers out. If this had a fence, how did the "lure him out", if I didn't have one, well why not haha, if this Lion was a such an icon.


The private land they lured him to did not have a Lion allocation for 2015.


----------



## Bulldog2nine (Jul 11, 2015)

I definitely agree where there is smoke there is fire (previously convicted of poaching here). However, don't you think we let this play out and hear all the facts, I don't even know if that is possible with today's media.


----------



## COArrow (Nov 24, 2013)

Bulldog2nine said:


> I definitely agree where there is smoke there is fire (previously convicted of poaching here). However, don't you think we let this play out and hear all the facts, I don't even know if that is possible with today's media.


the same media going after planned parenthood?


----------



## Bulldog2nine (Jul 11, 2015)

Why am I not surprised at that comment. Not to derail this but lets here it, please pitch me you best defense for PP.


----------



## Bulldog2nine (Jul 11, 2015)

Hear* no grammar police catching me!


----------



## rackmasterlgw (Mar 16, 2007)

> Quote Originally Posted by Bulldog2nine View Post
> My facts maybe wrong, but did they no lure him out to shoot him? The parks I have been to in Africa have been high fence preserves to keep poachers out. If this had a fence, how did the "lure him out", if I didn't have one, well why not haha, if this Lion was a such an icon.





> COArrow
> The private land they lured him to did not have a Lion allocation for 2015.


As explained by Maximus earlier,and witnessed by myself,the yearly animal permit allocations to the landowners for Zimbabwe officials are a stack of hand written pages that would fill a notebook.The Professional Hunters have to sift through the pile and then be aware
of what other hunters have harvested.A quota can be filled in one day and no one knows in a timely manner.


----------



## rackmasterlgw (Mar 16, 2007)

And COArrow,if you are going to try to defend PP by blaming the right wing media,then the double dipping paid troll that you are has been exposed.


----------



## hunterhewi (Jun 12, 2010)

chevman said:


> In the jungle...the mighty jungle..the lion sleeps tonight. Good riddence ***** cat.


Wimoweh, wimoweh, wimoweh, wimoweh
Wimoweh, wimoweh, wimoweh, wimoweh
Wimoweh, wimoweh, wimoweh, wimoweh
Wimoweh, wimoweh, wimoweh, wimoweh
Ee-e-e-oh-mum-a-weh
Ee-e-e-oh-mum-a-weh

Bye bye ****ing kitty


----------



## zmax hunter (Aug 21, 2006)

So a judge can block the further release of videos about PP yet no arrest of people who threaten the dentists life . .


----------



## Red Sparky (Dec 24, 2013)

Well I guess we will get the whole story as they have started the process to extradite the dentist to Zimbabwe.


----------



## hunterhewi (Jun 12, 2010)

This is where every other african dangerous game hunter needs to tell Zim to get bent and shove their precious commodity up their ass. See how long they like that. But the twits that run this country will keep pumping them foreign aid while completely igoring the poverty stricken areas on our own turf.


----------



## 09blackonblack (Nov 9, 2011)

Nah nah nah nah,
Nah nah nah nah,
Hey hey hey gooooodbye...

Or

Right away Mr. Palmer flew in from Minneapolis 
On a red eye midnight flight
He held his tag in hand and they worked out a plan
And it didn't take them long to decide
Cecil had to die


----------



## namozine (Mar 15, 2013)

rackmasterlgw said:


> As explained by Maximus earlier,and witnessed by myself,the yearly animal permit allocations to the landowners for Zimbabwe officials are a stack of hand written pages that would fill a notebook.The Professional Hunters have to sift through the pile and then be aware
> of what other hunters have harvested.A quota can be filled in one day and no one knows in a timely manner.


Please ! Stop with the facts !
They obviously have nothing to do with the "Poor Cecil Affair"...


----------



## Ptoid (Mar 8, 2014)

See theyre going to write a law disallowing the return of endangered or propaed endangered trophies to enter us. 

Actually makes sense regardless of cecil


----------



## Elvis_Is_Dead (Nov 25, 2009)

Bulldog2nine said:


> My facts maybe wrong, but did they no lure him out to shoot him? The parks I have been to in Africa have been high fence preserves to keep poachers out. If this had a fence, how did the "lure him out", if I didn't have one, well why not haha, if this Lion was a such an icon.


Baiting is standard procedure for Lion hunting. However they initially were baiting... hoping for a leopard. Then 1st a female lion showed up, and then cecil showed up.
They had never even heard of Cecil before this and could not see collar under the thick mane. The dentist shot him with a bow at 10 PM.

The game laws in zimbabwe allow for hunting at night on private land. See for yourself.
http://www.shakariconnection.com/hunting-zimbabwe.html

(Look under Zimbabwe Game Laws)


> Zimbabwe Game Laws
> 
> All trophy hunting to take place within the hours of daylight in state safari areas.
> *On communal (tribal) and private land, nocturnal species may be hunted at night.*
> No hunting is allowed at night or with artificial light on state land.



The only problem I see here is that the Prof. Hunter didn't tell Palmer the dentist that the allotment for a Lion had expired just the month before. 

The one who did wrong is the Prof Hunter... not the dentist. The dentist had a lion tag.


----------



## highwaynorth (Feb 17, 2005)

Perry24 said:


> I heard he shot it with a Mathews crossbow. No wonder he didn't kill it quickly.


I heard that he used an Elite.


----------



## Bowguy867 (Nov 6, 2014)

zap said:


>


It's amazing the guys saying hunters are cowards always look like my daughter could rough em up


----------



## COArrow (Nov 24, 2013)

highwaynorth said:


> I heard that he used an Elite.


His other hunting photos show a matthews bow, perhaps they can come out with a special addition dentist bow for his followers


----------



## Bowguy867 (Nov 6, 2014)

COArrow said:


> His other hunting photos show a matthews bow, perhaps they can come out with a special addition dentist bow for his followers


That's funny


----------



## bowslam (Feb 8, 2004)

highwaynorth said:


> I heard that he used an Elite.


And that's the problem...... Everyone's "hearing" all kinds of things. There are very few FACTS that known at this time, other than Walter Palmer is is in the middle of a giant sh*tstorm.


----------



## Desertcj (Jun 21, 2012)

COArrow said:


> His other hunting photos show a matthews bow, perhaps they can come out with a special addition dentist bow for his followers


I was thinking a "Cecil edition"....lol


----------



## KimberTac1911 (Feb 27, 2012)

Desertcj said:


> I was thinking a "Cecil edition"....lol


I heard the cam they will use will have "no collar" technology


----------



## Rolo (Dec 16, 2002)

Straw...straw everywhere...



COArrow said:


> He is actually a normal responsible hunter, you are going out of your way to support a guy who had deep enough pockets to settle a sexual harassment issue and federal poaching issue who finally found himself in a place he can't buy his way out. You are the minority. However I don't expect any less, you can't even keep your word about no longer posting here. I have no doubt since you support the dentist if you had money you would behave in the same manner....


I know it's a difficult thing for some to simply refrain from conclusion until all the evidence is in...but I'm having a hard time understanding why some, who claim to be ina morally superior position, have a problem with others supporting a core element of fundamental due process...

If the minority consists of people who recognize fundamental due process, and adhere to a core position of not making conclusions until all is known...I got no problem being in the minority...

Those who can't or refuse to understand such concepts, the purported majority, typically resort to pejorative statements about supporting an individual, rather than supporting a premise and tenant that is fundamental to American culture...until they want to be on the other side of the fence, and then they condemn the folks that make the same snap conclusions they did...hypocritical indeed... 




COArrow said:


> I got challenged and posted all the proof for my statements on this thread. If you find reality and truth as contrarian I feel bad. All of a sudden the crazed right wants social welfare for one of their peeps on AT. If you can't stand behind what you post, just don't post.


Um...what proof? I'm still waiting to hear where you think bowhunting is in relation to the "fringe"...




COArrow said:


> they only thing illegal issue we know for sure is the land he was hunting was not allotted a lion tag for 2015. That actually does matter...


See, it only took like 16 pages for you to finally arrive at this simple proposition...everything else is supposition...not the proof you speak of from your previous quote...




COArrow said:


> the same media going after planned parenthood?


More straw...more straw for everyone...


----------



## COArrow (Nov 24, 2013)

Rolo said:


> Straw...straw everywhere...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don't think bowhunting is the fringe, I think you are the fringe. You have far more in common with anti's than I ever could.


----------



## Rolo (Dec 16, 2002)

COArrow said:


> I don't think bowhunting is the fringe, I think you are the fringe. You have far more in common with anti's than I ever could.


More straw...more straw here...message and debate...nope, let's align folks with the 'anti's so one does not have to rationally respond to the discussion...a sign of desperation and ignorance... 

You are indeed a hypocrite and its quite easy to see...


----------



## COArrow (Nov 24, 2013)

Rolo said:


> More straw...more straw here...message and debate...nope, let's align folks with the 'anti's so one does not have to rationally respond to the discussion...a sign of desperation and ignorance...
> 
> You are indeed a hypocrite and its quite easy to see...


People like you are co-dependent with the anti's. You can have meaning in your lives without each other. You can call me names all you like, but I am right. Going out to scout, bit too hot on the front range today, so carry on, on your own.


----------



## Rolo (Dec 16, 2002)

COArrow said:


> People like you are co-dependent with the anti's. You can have meaning in your lives without each other. You can call me names all you like, but I am right. Going out to scout, bit too hot on the front range today, so carry on, on your own.


Right...right...it is what it 'is' because you have anointed yourself as the person who gets to decide and say what it 'is'...

The circular reasoning of folks who cannot rationally support their opinions...so they resort to claiming they are "right" or determining that something is not "fringe" simply because the say so...oh, jee...when they are challenged on such simple things, they resort to the association games and statements of co-dependence...

Not only are you a hypocrite, you're also incredibly shallow and quite simple...


----------



## The Hood (Jul 5, 2002)

I like Lion Jerky


----------



## Bowhuntertim (Jun 4, 2006)

Rolo said:


> More straw...more straw here...message and debate...nope, let's align folks with the 'anti's so one does not have to rationally respond to the discussion...a sign of desperation and ignorance...
> 
> You are indeed a hypocrite and its quite easy to see...


He pulls this crap on about every thread I see him post in. Name calling and personal attacks are the norm for him. He was supporting the poacher in the Elite thread and now he's taking the opposite stance. He just comes on here to troll and start fights. I wouldn't waste your energy on him. Guys like him just go on my ignore list and I move along.


----------



## Rolo (Dec 16, 2002)

Bowhuntertim said:


> He pulls this crap on about every thread I see him post in. Name calling and personal attacks are the norm for him. He was supporting the poacher in the Elite thread and now he's taking the opposite stance. He just comes on here to troll and start fights. I wouldn't waste your energy on him. Guys like him just go on my ignore list and I move along.


Meh...like I said...he's a hypocrite and a simple one at that, who attempts to engage in the 3 Ds of debating:

Demand - that he is right because he says he is right, and he 'support' his being 'right' by posting really really broad things so he can come back later and claim proof of what he posted, without ever actually having offered proof of anything...

Dodge - any attempt to logically and rationally debate anyone with a contrary opinion, and when asked questions by those folks, throw out various straw arguments in an attempt to divert the topic.

Demean - when the first 2 Ds fail, resort to demeaning those with opposing views, associate them with the 'evil' folks and attempt to put one's self on the moral high ground. This occurs when the individual realizes that they cannot rationally support their position with anything other than their subjective beliefs and feelings...and those for the simple-minded hypocrites can never be wrong, or subject to modification, because that would be an acknowledgement that they were wrong, and that just cannot happen in their own little worlds...


----------



## Darrens6601 (Jul 16, 2015)

Bowhuntertim said:


> He pulls this crap on about every thread I see him post in. Name calling and personal attacks are the norm for him. He was supporting the poacher in the Elite thread and now he's taking the opposite stance. He just comes on here to troll and start fights. I wouldn't waste your energy on him. Guys like him just go on my ignore list and I move along.


Yup..


----------



## Bowhuntertim (Jun 4, 2006)

Rolo said:


> Meh...like I said...he's a hypocrite and a simple one at that, who attempts to engage in the 3 Ds of debating:
> 
> Demand - that he is right because he says he is right, and he 'support' his being 'right' by posting really really broad things so he can come back later and claim proof of what he posted, without ever actually having offered proof of anything...
> 
> ...


That pretty much sums it up and this isn't the first thread he's pulled it on. Talking to people like that is about as productive as beating your head against a wall.


----------



## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

The Hood said:


> I like Lion Jerky


The mane man has spoken........:darkbeer:


----------



## mn5503 (Feb 21, 2006)

I am Cecil? Unreal.


----------



## 138104 (May 14, 2009)

Cecil's brother, Jericho, was killed today. That might cause the internet to crash as the anti's will lose their minds on social media.


----------



## Desertcj (Jun 21, 2012)

mn5503 said:


> I am Cecil? Unreal.


LMAO....I was thinking it might be better if she was Cecil!


----------



## Darrens6601 (Jul 16, 2015)

Yup I just read that also . But nothing on the parents of little girl who were shot in the back and killed by a immigrant here on a obama visa in Montana yesterday . The little girl was shot to but she will survive. This country is a twisted mess.


----------



## hunterhewi (Jun 12, 2010)

Bowguy867 said:


> It's amazing the guys saying hunters are cowards always look like my daughter could rough em up


Kinda what i was thinking and mine is only 5 lmao. These people have never had to actually work just to scrape by. Everything has been handed to them to the point that they have no grasp on reality. Pretty sad to say that these are our "fellow" americans


----------



## hunterhewi (Jun 12, 2010)

Perry24 said:


> Cecil's brother, Jericho, was killed today. That might cause the internet to crash as the anti's will lose their minds on social media.


Probably killed by Zims corrupt government. So the focus of this horrible horrible tragedy will stay on them. Big ****in deal its a cat, i hate them all equally!


----------



## Bowhuntertim (Jun 4, 2006)

mn5503 said:


> I am Cecil? Unreal.


Haha, that was my favorite too. Lets find a radio collar for her and drop her off in Africa and I bet she changes her mind. LOL!


----------



## hunterhewi (Jun 12, 2010)

Bowhuntertim said:


> Haha, that was my favorite too. Lets find a radio collar for her and drop her off in Africa and I bet she changes her mind. LOL!


Drop her in the middle of a lion pride and see how far she makes it before shes lunch!


----------



## grizzlyplumber (Jul 21, 2005)

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xZRw0IYdf3g


----------



## Rothhar1 (Apr 1, 2007)

A lot of Idiots involved in this or trying to be involved in this .And every one of them have an opinion about something in the big picture and world wide scenes don't amount to a pile of owl crap. Even some so called hunters that are noting more than internet tuff guys and trolls. Just saying .Im out f it and have no opinion on this worthless subject at all .It does not effect any of us in any way and never will .Its a Diversion tactic by a liberal Media to keep everyone's eyes off Pitiful Democrat s with poor ethics and back grounds that are running for office and an attempt to crush a conservative past time .. People are sheep and there is a lot of mutton on here too. The media speaks and the doors fall of for some here and in the world .Think what is important and control your own minds people .


----------



## Desertcj (Jun 21, 2012)

I wonder what type of broadhead was used? I bet it was a Rage....lol.


----------



## tered (Sep 29, 2014)

Do you and can you eat lion?


----------



## Billie (Jul 1, 2004)

Shouldernuke! said:


> A lot of Idiots involved in this or trying to be involved in this .And every one of them have an opinion about something in the big picture and world wide scenes don't amount to a pile of owl crap. Even some so called hunters that are noting more than internet tuff guys and trolls. Just saying .Im out f it and have no opinion on this worthless subject at all .It does not effect any of us in any way and never will .Its a Diversion tactic by a liberal Media to keep everyone's eyes off Pitiful Democrat s with poor ethics and back grounds that are running for office and an attempt to crush a conservative past time .. People are sheep and there is a lot of mutton on here too. The media speaks and the doors fall of for some here and in the world .Think what is important and control your own minds people .


Unfortunately it does effect us.


----------



## The Hood (Jul 5, 2002)

tered said:


> Do you and can you eat lion?


makes good Jerky


Cecil's brother was poached and the country has stopped big game hunting


----------



## irishhacker (Sep 4, 2011)

^^false


----------



## Billie (Jul 1, 2004)

The Hood said:


> makes good Jerky
> 
> 
> Cecil's brother was poached and the country has stopped big game hunting










https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...rhoyqFiRQe_dFrKMw&sig2=P8L1jKwDfSRYsWeJrdKdYQ


----------



## Fortyneck (Oct 8, 2010)

tered said:


> Do you and can you eat lion?


I've had mountain lion, it's delicious. Bobcat's not bad either. I'm betting african lion is also pretty tasty. :hungry:


----------



## tered (Sep 29, 2014)

Can we get an order of this lion that's been in the news? I this this world is so screwed up. Next they will want what ever sells in the next 15 min of fame. People are so ignorant?


----------



## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

The zimi's have ordered all lion, elephant and leopard hunting in the area where the cat met his demise halted.


----------



## da white shoe (Mar 10, 2009)

Yeah... people eat lion meat. It's probably damn good, judging from mt lion meat.
The native people get/eat everything.... ANYTHING that the hunting outfit gives them over there. Meat is hard to come by, usually.

But, what if they didn't take the meat?
Does that make the hunting and killing of an animal somehow unethical? 
So... population control is not the primary function of modern hunting? 
Hunters dollars... to improve and maintain habitat, coming in a close second.
There are a lot of places and situations in the USA that taking the meat from a legally hunted animal is not required.
Most bear hunters are not required to salvage the meat.
That goes for black bears, grizzly bears, brown bears and polar bears. Did you know that? 
And, before you type and post on a public forum, "you would never kill an African lion because you can't eat the meat,"
why don't you tell us about the last coyote or skunk steak you grilled.


----------



## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

Skunk is damn good.....:cocktail:


----------



## tered (Sep 29, 2014)

I have no problem in giving the meat away. I would happy to give up the deer meat from any hunt. I have given some of my meat away. I feel that the general the public has no idea of the real world. Poachers in Africa are a bigger problem. Killing for a horn to sell? And we the public is attacking a man that paid to hunt? If he is a trophy hunter and that is all so be it. I truly had no idea that you could eat lion. I do not think i would eat skunk.


----------



## da white shoe (Mar 10, 2009)

zap said:


> Skunk is damn good.....:cocktail:


It's what's for dinner!


----------



## Elvis_Is_Dead (Nov 25, 2009)

zap said:


> The zimi's have ordered all lion, elephant and leopard hunting in the area where the cat met his demise halted.


Now Obama should follow suit, and put a stop to Gov't condoned illegal immigration.


----------



## tered (Sep 29, 2014)

Elvis has let the building on that one.


----------



## I like Meat (Feb 14, 2009)

tered said:


> Do you and can you eat lion?


Lion can be eaten, many villages/natives will take the meat of killed critters..... same for Elephants, Cape Buffalo and any critter killed in Africa, very seldom does any meat goes to wast.... I'd have a Lion steak if it was available in a heart beat....


----------



## Bowguy867 (Nov 6, 2014)

tered said:


> Do you and can you eat lion?


I've eaten lion n it tastes fine. The piece I had was pretty lean. Not sure of it all is but the taste was good.


----------



## Billie (Jul 1, 2004)

Fortyneck said:


> I've had mountain lion, it's delicious. Bobcat's not bad either. I'm betting african lion is also pretty tasty. :hungry:


I've eaten bobcat, and eat at least one a year. They are delicious.


----------



## Fortyneck (Oct 8, 2010)

Billie said:


> I've eaten bobcat, and eat at least one a year. They are delicious.


Yup, eat one and you'll never toss that meat again.


----------



## The Hood (Jul 5, 2002)

Turns out, Cecil the Lion was no choirboy. Photos have surfaced of Cecil in the act of killing and eating Gary the Gazelle. Gary was a favorite of both locals and visitors at Zimbabwe's Hwange National Park, where he delighted onlookers with his trademark leap, while clicking his heels. Gary was 12 years old and leaves his beloved wife, Greta Gazelle, and their 8 (unnamed) offspring. Gary's long-time friend and confidante, Zeke the Zebra said, "A lot of people are crying over Cecil lately, but, let me tell you, I've lost a lot of friends and family to him. He was an animal. I won't be crying no tears."


----------



## Billie (Jul 1, 2004)

The Hood said:


> Turns out, Cecil the Lion was no choirboy. Photos have surfaced of Cecil in the act of killing and eating Gary the Gazelle. Gary was a favorite of both locals and visitors at Zimbabwe's Hwange National Park, where he delighted onlookers with his trademark leap, while clicking his heels. Gary was 12 years old and leaves his beloved wife, Greta Gazelle, and their 8 (unnamed) offspring. Gary's long-time friend and confidante, Zeke the Zebra said, "A lot of people are crying over Cecil lately, but, let me tell you, I've lost a lot of friends and family to him. He was an animal. I won't be crying no tears."


----------



## Hippokrates (Sep 18, 2006)

That effing asshat had prior convictions for Fishing and hunting offenses... And settled a sexual harassment charge as well... The asshat in question has an obvious history of pisspoor judgment and conduct unbecoming of a true outdoorsman/hunter/fisherman.. On the other hand I do agree that there are worse things happening to human beings such as the above stated atrocities performed by the Boko Haram and the ISIS-effers, so personally I can't say this whole poor lion things has chafed my scrotum that altogether much... Just saying that what is right is right... Oh and before anyone wonders I do hunt and fish... A lot!! And I don't like like rich effers with an unproportionate sense of entitlement act as complete asshats by weight of wealth... Asshat is asshat-- plain and simple...


----------



## Elvis_Is_Dead (Nov 25, 2009)

^^^ LOL - Didn't Hippocrates die in the jaws of a Lion in the arena?


----------



## 0nepin (Sep 16, 2009)

Awesome


The Hood said:


> Turns out, Cecil the Lion was no choirboy. Photos have surfaced of Cecil in the act of killing and eating Gary the Gazelle. Gary was a favorite of both locals and visitors at Zimbabwe's Hwange National Park, where he delighted onlookers with his trademark leap, while clicking his heels. Gary was 12 years old and leaves his beloved wife, Greta Gazelle, and their 8 (unnamed) offspring. Gary's long-time friend and confidante, Zeke the Zebra said, "A lot of people are crying over Cecil lately, but, let me tell you, I've lost a lot of friends and family to him. He was an animal. I won't be crying no tears."


----------



## NYSBowman (Aug 21, 2012)

COArrow said:


> His other hunting photos show a matthews bow, perhaps they can come out with a special addition dentist bow for his followers



Getting Mathews to go to the trouble of designing a Dentist Edition bow.....would be like pulling teeth.






:lol:


----------



## da white shoe (Mar 10, 2009)

Hippokrates said:


> That effing asshat had prior convictions for Fishing and hunting offenses... And settled a sexual harassment charge as well... The asshat in question has an obvious history of pisspoor judgment and conduct unbecoming of a true outdoorsman/hunter/fisherman.. On the other hand I do agree that there are worse things happening to human beings such as the above stated atrocities performed by the Boko Haram and the ISIS-effers, so personally I can't say this whole poor lion things has chafed my scrotum that altogether much... Just saying that what is right is right... Oh and before anyone wonders I do hunt and fish... A lot!! And I don't like like rich effers with an unproportionate sense of entitlement act as complete asshats by weight of wealth... Asshat is asshat-- plain and simple...


Well, if you are a hunter... you may very well turn out to be a misinformed one. The PH may be the only one who did anything wrong... and he may even have made an honest mistake... (in not knowing the landowner didn't still have a lion quota to fill.
Or... maybe you're just a raging anti-dentite.


----------



## Billie (Jul 1, 2004)

Hippokrates said:


> That effing asshat had prior convictions for Fishing and hunting offenses... And settled a sexual harassment charge as well... The asshat in question has an obvious history of pisspoor judgment and conduct unbecoming of a true outdoorsman/hunter/fisherman.. On the other hand I do agree that there are worse things happening to human beings such as the above stated atrocities performed by the Boko Haram and the ISIS-effers, so personally I can't say this whole poor lion things has chafed my scrotum that altogether much... Just saying that what is right is right... Oh and before anyone wonders I do hunt and fish... A lot!! And I don't like like rich effers with an unproportionate sense of entitlement act as complete asshats by weight of wealth... Asshat is asshat-- plain and simple...


So it's about money...


----------



## garjack (Feb 6, 2014)

I was on Bowsite just now and it seems that Dr. Jan Seski, who has taken several elephant with bow and arrow is about to be investigated.


----------



## da white shoe (Mar 10, 2009)

Billie said:


> So it's about money...


Yeah... "rich effers".... pretty convincing evidence who the asshat is.


----------



## I like Meat (Feb 14, 2009)

What a flaming idiot this "asshat" is (HippoWTF) ..... "Get off the line ya big dope" (Mark Levin)


----------



## Billie (Jul 1, 2004)

I LOVE rich people! You ever party with millionaires? Put it on your bucket list!!


----------



## Elvis_Is_Dead (Nov 25, 2009)

garjack said:


> I was on Bowsite just now and it seems that Dr. Jan Seski, who has taken several elephant with bow and arrow is about to be investigated.


:mg: And apparently his medical practice used foreign versions of drugs from 2008 to 2011... AND PLEADED GUILTY!

http://heavy.com/news/2015/08/jan-s...bwe-gynecologist-oncologist-wife-family-fine/

Heck... send his arse to jail. Why even bother with a trial? And bomb his business while you're at it!


----------



## Fulldraw1972 (Jan 6, 2012)

I might not be a millionaire but I sure party like one;-)


----------



## dimbledumble (Jun 25, 2015)

Before you hedge those bets you placed against me......?

Be reticent of fortunes they foretell......!


Youre verbal defication i cant wash away despite myself,,,,,,, your vanity it seems has served you well??!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Youre so quick to choose the path walked by the rightous.... so you can go and nest among the weak......

The innocent observers will fefuse to find the lie within.......


Renew the diapointment of the meek!!!

A band out of south africa????

Seether


----------



## yougoteem (Feb 3, 2004)




----------



## yougoteem (Feb 3, 2004)

Sorry. Try that again.


----------



## Pete53 (Dec 5, 2011)

i suppose fred bear is going to now be investigated too ? some say fred killed smokey the bear and bullwrinkle the moose ??????????? just maybe peter rabbit ?


----------



## vietvet50 (Oct 18, 2006)

Everything they eat was killed animals fish whatever


----------



## KS Bow Hunter (Nov 22, 2013)

Pretty simple really. The lion was illegally lured off of a preserve with bait, illegally shot with a cross bow, and apparently suffered for another 40 hours before he was disposed of with a rifle.

The hunter and the guide should both pay for the crime...

The thing is, if you aren't an idiot and pay $55K to do something illegal, and kill a lion with a tracking collar, that is a public celebrity due to the affiliation with a university, then no one shows up at your practice, and you don't show up on CNN.

It's funny to me how AT will crucify a poacher, including threatening to do bodily harm to him, but then support the illegal killing of a majestic animal by a complete asshat...


----------



## hunterhewi (Jun 12, 2010)

I dont get how people classify a lion as "majestic" its a ****in cat for crying out loud. No one knew of this lion until the media blew it up. He was hardly a "celebrity"


----------



## APAsuphan (Oct 23, 2008)

hunterhewi said:


> I dont get how people classify a lion as "majestic" its a ****in cat for crying out loud. No one knew of this lion until the media blew it up. He was hardly a "celebrity"


Lions are pretty majestic, but so is a 180" buck and I have no problem shooting at one of those lol


----------



## KS Bow Hunter (Nov 22, 2013)

hunterhewi said:


> I dont get how people classify a lion as "majestic" its a ****in cat for crying out loud. No one knew of this lion until the media blew it up. He was hardly a "celebrity"


To each his own, personally I have an appreciation for the big cats...and I find them to be amazing majestic animals...

You might want to do a little research...Cecil was a major attraction at the park, and has been photographed extensively as a result. As an amateur photog, that is how I was aware of him...

Either way...he was killed illegally for a lot of money...is that OK with you?


----------



## NYSBowman (Aug 21, 2012)

KS Bow Hunter said:


> Pretty simple really. The lion was illegally lured off of a preserve with bait, illegally shot with a cross bow, and apparently suffered for another 40 hours before he was disposed of with a rifle.
> 
> The hunter and the guide should both pay for the crime...
> 
> ...


Too many people here have been brainwashed into the "we all need to stick together" mentality. Which of course, means turning a blind eye when "hunters" chose some highly unethical(and in many cases) illegal hunting practices.

If we spent more time rooting out the bad apples among our ranks....we would garner more support from the non-radical general public. 

I certainly believe in "innocent until proven guilty", but I also think that if it "walks like a duck"...

Previous poaching conviction(s) for game violations isn't going to help the dentist's cause. JMO


----------



## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

^^^^Judge, jury and executioner all in one, without even a Zimbabwe game law regulation book in hand.......


----------



## hunterhewi (Jun 12, 2010)

Yep i agree zap. Too many judges when NO ONE KNOWS THE FACTS. If he poached it knowingly then yes make him pay, as if he hasnt paid enough already because of these so called judges. Thats the problem too many out there want to judge a book by its cover before even opening it. 

He wasnt that well known when the people of africa didnt even know his "name". You think 90% of these protesting idiots had ever heard of him before?? Im willing to bet thats a big NO. They just want a stupid reason to cause ****. Thats all. If they wanted to ***** about something that really mattered then that would be different.


----------



## Ol' red beard (Sep 2, 2013)

All I know is the media is dumb and I don't believe anything they say unless I see the proof... for example after the Sandy hook shooting a reporter got on camera an explained what the ar15 that was used. He said that all the kid had to do is pull the trigger and could fire 30 bullets in just a few seconds.... describing a full auto rifle and not knowing that the trigger had to be pulled as many times as bullets loaded. Then proceeded to "show" a .223 bullet. He held up a cartridge and said it was the size bullet that came out of the gun, not knowing the the bullet was 1/3 of that total cartridge. People who don't know anything believe what is reported bc they are ignorant to the truth and believe what reporters say just bc it's on tv. Rediculous!


----------



## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

Split the opposing force and vanquish them one at a time.....yup.

It will not be long.


----------



## da white shoe (Mar 10, 2009)

KS Bow Hunter said:


> Pretty simple really. The lion was illegally lured off of a preserve with bait, illegally shot with a cross bow, and apparently suffered for another 40 hours before he was disposed of with a rifle.
> 
> The hunter and the guide should both pay for the crime...
> 
> ...


The reason so many on AT aren't ready to crucify this guy is...
Unlike you, obviously... we can smell animal rights crappola all over this story.

I have heard no good evidence that anyone went inside park boundaries to leave a scent trail. Dragging bait behind a vehicle is almost always used to bring in big cats in Africa. Cats outside the park boundaries are NOT protected.
I've heard no good evidence that an illegal crossbow was used. With the amount of paperwork it would take to get a crossbow through customs, it's almost a sure bet that it wasn't a crossbow. Just a reporter that didn't know the difference.
Shooting an animal with a gps tracking collar isn't illegal... that I've seen anywhere.
Turning in the collar is normally optional.
From all accounts, the dentist had a tag for lion and his PH gave him the go ahead to shoot when a legal aged lion came into the bait instead of the leopard they were actually hunting.
It sounds as if the PH screwed up... because the only charge I've heard of is that the landowners lion quota had expired on the property they were hunting.
I noticed how you managed to mention the price of his hunt.
You throw it out there as if he paid that amount to shoot Cecil the friendly lion. That's probably not true, as that's what a hunt for big cats goes for in Africa.
And, in your other post you say you have a soft spot for the big cats.
Well... that's kind of a tipoff where you're coming from.
Liberal emotion... most likely.
Might want to check up on who pushed this story.
I'll save you some time.
It was the African equivalent of PETA.


----------



## cocowheats (Mar 3, 2011)

99.9% of people didnt know who cecil was. OMG who cares.


----------



## namozine (Mar 15, 2013)

da white shoe said:


> The reason so many on AT aren't ready to crucify this guy is...
> Unlike you, obviously... we can smell animal rights crappola all over this story.
> 
> I have heard no good evidence that anyone went inside park boundaries to leave a scent trail. Dragging bait behind a vehicle is almost always used to bring in big cats in Africa. Cats outside the park boundaries are NOT protected.
> ...


Very well said...


----------



## namozine (Mar 15, 2013)

I also already see where the Zimbabwean government is already soliciting "donations" to replace the income they'll be losing due to the hunting moratorium...
This translates to more aid that one of the most corrupt and oppressive governments in the entire world can steal to line their own pockets...


----------



## archerbaldguy (Dec 2, 2014)

RightWing said:


> Cecil the lion is gone, but Anthony the antelope can rest a little easier.


No he can't because Cecil probably only hunted in the early stages of his life, his lionesses did all the hunting once he got his own pride.


----------



## archerbaldguy (Dec 2, 2014)

Honestly, i love big cats. They are beautiful creatures. I'm not going to pay for a lion hunt in Africa, but i won't crucify someone else for doing it. I would shoot a mountain lion here though. There's a lot of cats in danger of over hunting, i honestly don't feel like the African lion is one of them. 

The waters are really being tested right now by people looking to hand out social justice and ruin people in the hunting community. It's pretty messed up that some of those within the hunting community are buying the hype and turning on their fellow hunters. There's a lot of hearsay surrounding this Cecil ordeal. The media can't get the facts straight on anything, let alone this.


----------



## Billie (Jul 1, 2004)

KS Bow Hunter said:


> Pretty simple really. The lion was illegally lured off of a preserve with bait, illegally shot with a cross bow, and apparently suffered for another 40 hours before he was disposed of with a rifle.
> 
> The hunter and the guide should both pay for the crime...
> 
> ...


I'm not sure if your being sarcastic or serious. If it's the latter, then your still wallowing in a last weeks lies. You need to read up on the latest .


----------



## Billie (Jul 1, 2004)

NYSBowman said:


> Too many people here have been brainwashed into the "we all need to stick together" mentality. Which of course, means turning a blind eye when "hunters" chose some highly unethical(and in many cases) illegal hunting practices.
> 
> If we spent more time rooting out the bad apples among our ranks....we would garner more support from the non-radical general public.
> 
> ...


No. Sticking together does not mean "turning a blind eye". It means not crucifying a man on the bases of an animal rights antihunting groups report of lies. Many of us have dealt with PETA and HSUS before, and after a few times dealing with them, you learn to see the pattern. This hunter had his license and permit to hunt lions. It was legal on his part. The PH didn't check the landowner permit and took the landowners word on it. That's on him. 
You still believe it was the hunters fault because you've been told by the media. They reported it was a hunt to kill THIS particular lion, on the park, baited illegally, shot with a crossbow, then a rifle. None of that has proven to be true. You say you believe in innocence till proven guilty, but your next statement proves you really don't. The PETA bunch don't care if he's guilty or not. They would do this to any hunter. You can't change their minds. The only thing we CAN do is not help them. Tell the truth and let the people between us and them HEAR the truth.


----------



## Billie (Jul 1, 2004)

namozine said:


> I also already see where the Zimbabwean government is already soliciting "donations" to replace the income they'll be losing due to the hunting moratorium...
> This translates to more aid that one of the most corrupt and oppressive governments in the entire world can steal to line their own pockets...


I hope they get all the donations they deserve. I would like to see PETA and HSUS come up with the equivalent amount of money hunting brings into ZIM. PETA and HSUS take in 100 million a year. If they won't spend money on animal shelters here, how much do you think they will give to save lions in a country they can't fleece for donations?


----------



## useyourbow (Jun 2, 2010)

By order of the management this thread is closed!


----------



## BluMeanie (May 5, 2014)

useyourbow said:


> By order of the management this thread is closed!


Not until they fold the 7 or 8 OTHER "Cecil threads" into it......


----------



## namozine (Mar 15, 2013)

Billie said:


> I hope they get all the donations they deserve. I would like to see PETA and HSUS come up with the equivalent amount of money hunting brings into ZIM. PETA and HSUS take in 100 million a year. If they won't spend money on animal shelters here, how much do you think they will give to save lions in a country they can't fleece for donations?


Exactly... But this also shows the mentality of those in charge of the African countries, and why they have always been and always will be hellholes...
Right now they think they see more money from outraged social justice warriors than they do from the hunting industry...
Ina a few weeks, when this blows over, they'll have neither donations nor hunting fees...


----------



## TauntoHawk (Aug 25, 2010)

go watch the Joe Rogan and Camron Hanes youtube video on this subject. I wont condem a hunter for hunting until all the facts our out and prove something illegal took place. the hunting of lions pays for a lot in those african countries that allow it. you think 50K US is easy to raise their economy.


----------



## NYSBowman (Aug 21, 2012)

Billie said:


> No. Sticking together does not mean "turning a blind eye". It means not crucifying a man on the bases of an animal rights antihunting groups report of lies. Many of us have dealt with PETA and HSUS before, and after a few times dealing with them, you learn to see the pattern. This hunter had his license and permit to hunt lions. It was legal on his part. The PH didn't check the landowner permit and took the landowners word on it. That's on him.
> You still believe it was the hunters fault because you've been told by the media. They reported it was a hunt to kill THIS particular lion, on the park, baited illegally, shot with a crossbow, then a rifle. None of that has proven to be true. You say you believe in innocence till proven guilty, but your next statement proves you really don't. The PETA bunch don't care if he's guilty or not. They would do this to any hunter. You can't change their minds. The only thing we CAN do is not help them. Tell the truth and let the people between us and them HEAR the truth.


I don't believe in crucifying the guy from the outset.....but I certainly am NOT going to publicly support him until all of the facts come out.

With that being said....previous CONVICTIONS(not allegations) for game violations leads one to believe that this guy isn't a stickler for the law. And...YES....previous criminal acts can and will be taken into account when this guy is judged(by the public and in the courts).

Whether legal or not.....the general public(and many in our ranks) don't look kindly on the many so-called "guided hunts" where the so-called "hunter" has an animal served up a silver platter. When someone pays $50k for a hunt......the kill is GUARANTEED. That ain't hunting IMO.


----------



## mattmann (Dec 8, 2011)

TauntoHawk said:


> go watch the Joe Rogan and Camron Hanes youtube video on this subject. I wont condem a hunter for hunting until all the facts our out and prove something illegal took place. the hunting of lions pays for a lot in those african countries that allow it. you think 50K US is easy to raise their economy.


This.....was oblivious to all this until I saw that video.....guess I live under a rock but my only "social media" is a few forums. GREAT video about this and I'm sure Rinella will make a good one soon...


----------



## KS Bow Hunter (Nov 22, 2013)

Billie said:


> I'm not sure if your being sarcastic or serious. If it's the latter, then your still wallowing in a last weeks lies. You need to read up on the latest .


Serious if the guy broke the law. Antis can only rail on you if you do something stupid. Whoever broke the news doesn't matter if he is guilty. 

Not saying the guy should be crucified but he isn't stupid. Kill a lion that is very public illegally and you get what you get. 

Life is hard and all about choices. Make good ones. 

Not an anti or a liberal just a law abiding lifelong hunter that takes responsibility for my actions.


----------



## 2wheels1love (Mar 7, 2015)

zap said:


> I did not see any other threads on this.......


On a lighter note... Nice up skirt pic


----------



## KS Bow Hunter (Nov 22, 2013)

da white shoe said:


> The reason so many on AT aren't ready to crucify this guy is...
> Unlike you, obviously... we can smell animal rights crappola all over this story.
> 
> I have heard no good evidence that anyone went inside park boundaries to leave a scent trail. Dragging bait behind a vehicle is almost always used to bring in big cats in Africa. Cats outside the park boundaries are NOT protected.
> ...


A lot of assumptions there about a lot of things...

I'm not a liberal or an anti, but yes I do think that the big cats are majestic, just like a big bull elk is...not going to apologize for a love of nature...that's part of why I hunt...

If it didn't happen, then the NGOs couldn't break the story now could they?

Why is the hunter and the land owner under arrest? Why didn't they call the collar in when they killed him?

Maybe it was a compound, not a crossbow, I've seen conflicting reports...

The guy has a track record of not playing within the rules, as you can find if you are interested...

Bottom line, I stick with my opinion. If you break the law, you pay the price, plain and simple. That is life...

That isn't liberal, or anti-hunting, it is pro-responsibility....that's all. Don't twist my words and project your agenda onto mine because it helps your argument...


----------



## bg305 (Nov 27, 2011)

So how much do you guys think the Jericho hunt is going to go for? 100k? 50 to the guide and 50 to the govt. officials to let it happen.


----------



## xforce pse (Mar 9, 2011)

You made me laugh!!!


----------



## Rolo (Dec 16, 2002)

KS Bow Hunter said:


> A lot of assumptions there about a lot of things...


You don't say...



KS Bow Hunter said:


> Pretty simple really. The *lion was illegally lured* off of a preserve with bait, *illegally shot with a cross bow*, and *apparently suffered for another 40 hours* before he was disposed of with a rifle.
> 
> The *hunter and the guide should both pay for the crime*...
> 
> ...


I think that was your first post on this thread, and it is full of a whole bunch of assumptions about a lot of things that lead you a a judgment without knowing the actual factual things...

And then we have this:



KS Bow Hunter said:


> Serious *if the guy broke the law*. Antis can only rail on you if you do something stupid. Whoever broke the news doesn't matter if he is guilty.
> 
> Not saying the guy should be crucified but he isn't stupid. *Kill a lion that is very public illegally and you get what you get*.
> 
> ...


Holy mother of back peddling...sorta. *If* the asshat broke the law...your first post had him breaking the law on a number of topics, based on speculation alone, and then you just couldn't do it, and had to add the "kill a lion that is very public illegally" statement...

Serious question: What actual facts are you basing your opinions on?


----------



## NYSBowman (Aug 21, 2012)

If the dentist truly wasn't a part of the crime...you would think that he would(or will) be suing the Outfitter for misleading him and costing him his dental practice and reputation.

My guess is that lawsuit will never be filed. :wink:


----------



## KS Bow Hunter (Nov 22, 2013)

Rolo said:


> You don't say...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Gotta read the whole thing, and take it in context my friend. I'm reading the same things you are, and I was answering a question. Do I think it was illegal? Apparently, 2 guys were arrested. Do I think the guy is an asshat? Apparently, as this is at LEAST the 3rd run in with the legal system...


----------



## KS Bow Hunter (Nov 22, 2013)

NYSBowman said:


> If the dentist truly wasn't a part of the crime...you would think that he would(or will) be suing the Outfitter for misleading him and costing him his dental practice and reputation.
> 
> My guess is that lawsuit will never be filed. :wink:


The crazy thing is, if this was someone poaching a crab claw buck off someones lease, AT would be crucifying the guy, even if he was hunting for food...

It's a fickle bunch...


----------



## da white shoe (Mar 10, 2009)

NYSBowman said:


> If the dentist truly wasn't a part of the crime...you would think that he would(or will) be suing the Outfitter for misleading him and costing him his dental practice and reputation.
> 
> 
> My guess is that lawsuit will never be filed. :wink:


Good guess. You have a 50/50 chance of getting it right.
Good God...


----------



## NYSBowman (Aug 21, 2012)

KS Bow Hunter said:


> The crazy thing is, if this was someone poaching a crab claw buck off someones lease, AT would be crucifying the guy, even if he was hunting for food...
> 
> It's a fickle bunch...


Exactly what I was thinking earlier today. If the guy poached a big buck somewhere...they would've verbally hanged him on day one.

I'm curious to how many of the Dentist supporters here are defending him because they routinely go on guided hunts and feel threatened that this incident may affect one of their future hunts.


----------



## KS Bow Hunter (Nov 22, 2013)

NYSBowman said:


> Exactly what I was thinking earlier today. If the guy poached a big buck somewhere...they would've verbally hanged him on day one.
> 
> I'm curious to how many of the Dentist supporters here are defending him because they routinely go on guided hunts and feel threatened that this incident may affect one of their future hunts.


I don't mind guided hunts, I don't even mind conservation approaches to managing game in Africa that helps the cause.

I'm not into spending a fortune to kill an animal over bait, but apparently that's fun...

What I can't understand is the blind support this guy gets just because folks don't agree with the anti-hunting crowd, whether he is guilty or not...

That just makes all of us hunters look bad, and stokes the fire of the antis who claim we don't care about conserving wildlife...


----------



## Rolo (Dec 16, 2002)

KS Bow Hunter said:


> Gotta read the whole thing, and take it in context my friend. I'm reading the same things you are, and I was answering a question. Do I think it was illegal? Apparently, 2 guys were arrested. Do I think the guy is an asshat? Apparently, as this is at LEAST the 3rd run in with the legal system...


I'm fairly certain I did. Your first post made a whole lot of statements based on very few actual facts. Also, since according to the 'official' press statements that were last released, only one guy gas been formally charged with anything...

My goodness...3 run ins with the legal system in 55 years...wish I had that few...

Oh...I tend to refrain from crucifying anyone without fact...speculation, like assumption, continues to make fools look foolish...


----------



## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

^yup, yup and yup....:cocktail:


----------



## da white shoe (Mar 10, 2009)

KS Bow Hunter said:


> The crazy thing is, if this was someone poaching a crab claw buck off someones lease, AT would be crucifying the guy, even if he was hunting for food...
> 
> It's a fickle bunch...


That's because... this early, it's very difficult to tell what really happened.
If the dentist broke even one law in this whole mess, he should pay for it... we all feel that way.
As it stands right now, the only wrong-doing that sounds even remotely credible was made by the guide.


----------



## Rolo (Dec 16, 2002)

KS Bow Hunter said:


> What I can't understand is the blind support this guy gets just because folks don't agree with the anti-hunting crowd, whether he is guilty or not...


Hey look...more straw from another poster...a poster who wants to make sure his context is understood, but then can't seem to understand the context of anyone else's statements...I guess when you get to define the "context"...since when did caution and conscious decision making become blind support for something?

Yeah, let's make immediate decisions based on limited, and some faulty, fact and stick with that. No need to think critically and methodically, cuz there are no examples in modern history where snap decisions and declarations based on incomplete fact have ever turned out to be contrary to reality...


----------



## Rolo (Dec 16, 2002)

da white shoe said:


> That's because... this early, it's very difficult to tell what really happened.
> If the dentist broke even one law in this whole mess, he should pay for it... we all feel that way.
> As it stands right now, the only wrong-doing that sounds even remotely credible was made by the guide.


Stop the blind support of the asshat...:tongue:


----------



## 90 meter 120 (May 7, 2007)

Funny the people who protest hunting are the same liberals that are pro abortion..... Can you say hypocritical hippies


----------



## da white shoe (Mar 10, 2009)

KS Bow Hunter said:


> I don't mind guided hunts, I don't even mind conservation approaches to managing game in Africa that helps the cause.
> 
> I'm not into spending a fortune to kill an animal over bait, but apparently that's fun...
> 
> ...


Ahh... now I get it.
You're anti baiting.
You're anti wealthy guy.
But, thank goodness you're ok with African hunting.


----------



## da white shoe (Mar 10, 2009)

Rolo said:


> Stop the blind support of the asshat...:tongue:


Well, according to MNChick... I have my head in my arse.... who wouldn't be blind.


----------



## KS Bow Hunter (Nov 22, 2013)

Rolo said:


> Hey look...more straw from another poster...a poster who wants to make sure his context is understood, but then can't seem to understand the context of anyone else's statements...I guess when you get to define the "context"...since when did caution and conscious decision making become blind support for something?
> 
> Yeah, let's make immediate decisions based on limited, and some faulty, fact and stick with that. No need to think critically and methodically, cuz there are no examples in modern history where snap decisions and declarations based on incomplete fact have ever turned out to be contrary to reality...


Was there a point to that nonsense?


----------



## KS Bow Hunter (Nov 22, 2013)

da white shoe said:


> That's because... this early, it's very difficult to tell what really happened.
> If the dentist broke even one law in this whole mess, he should pay for it... we all feel that way.
> As it stands right now, the only wrong-doing that sounds even remotely credible was made by the guide.


I agree with that...if the guy isn't guilty, he is getting a raw deal...

And I agree, it is probably too early to tell what really happened...but what did happen doesn't look too good...

I don't think you can say that all of AT agrees though that the guy did or didn't do something wrong...more than one guy has said something to the effect of "he paid $55K, so even if he did break the law, he has paid enough..." which are the kinds of comments that I feel are misguided...


----------



## KS Bow Hunter (Nov 22, 2013)

da white shoe said:


> Ahh... now I get it.
> You're anti baiting.
> You're anti wealthy guy.
> But, thank goodness you're ok with African hunting.


Not what I said...try again...


----------



## Rolo (Dec 16, 2002)

KS Bow Hunter said:


> Was there a point to that nonsense?


Yeah...find a post that supports your position of "blind support" for the dentist...

It's a straw argument, and a tactic intended to shift the focus of reality in to something that doesn't exist...attempts to make folks prove a negative...its intellectually dishonest too.


----------



## KS Bow Hunter (Nov 22, 2013)

Rolo said:


> Yeah...find a post that supports your position of "blind support" for the dentist...
> 
> It's a straw argument, and a tactic intended to shift the focus of reality in to something that doesn't exist...attempts to make folks prove a negative...its intellectually dishonest too.


Go read this thread of start to finish...there is plenty of blind support, without knowing the facts...

I'm not trying to divert anything. In the end, all this will do is help more and more of the world hate hunters and Americans...

I actually think that the dentist might not have known, but not knowing the law or if you are legal unfortunately doesn't make it OK or legal...

And thanks for keeping me honest Rollie, not sure what I would do without someone on AT helping to keep me between the guard rails...


----------



## Rolo (Dec 16, 2002)

KS Bow Hunter said:


> I agree with that...*if the guy isn't guilty, he is getting a raw deal.*..
> 
> And I agree, it is probably *too early to tell what really happened*...but what did happen doesn't look too good...
> 
> I don't think you can say that all of AT agrees though that the guy did or didn't do something wrong...more than one guy has said something to the effect of "he paid $55K, so even if he did break the law, he has paid enough..." which are the kinds of comments that I feel are misguided...


Wait...what's the context again...because that post and the one below say two entirely different things...



KS Bow Hunter said:


> Pretty simple really. The lion was *illegally lured off of a preserve with bait, illegally shot with a cross bow, and apparently suffered for another 40 hours before he was disposed of with a rifle.
> 
> The hunter and the guide should both pay for the crime...*
> 
> ...


Amazing...you have gone from decreeing him guilty to realizing that it is too early to tell whether he is or is not guilty of anything...

That sounds a lot like "blind support"... :wink:


----------



## KS Bow Hunter (Nov 22, 2013)

Rolo said:


> Wait...what's the context again...because that post and the one below say two entirely different things...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Reading comprehension and logical arguments not your thing huh?


----------



## da white shoe (Mar 10, 2009)

NYSBowman said:


> Exactly what I was thinking earlier today. If the guy poached a big buck somewhere...they would've verbally hanged him on day one.
> 
> I'm curious to how many of the Dentist supporters here are defending him because they routinely go on guided hunts and feel threatened that this incident may affect one of their future hunts.


And if the dentist broke ANY law... we'll all denounce him.

Am I worried about a future hunt?
You're damn right, I'm worried! You should be, too... 
An airline just announced it won't allow African 
horns and capes... "trophies".... on any flights coming into the US. 
They're thinking about just making it US wide for all "trophies."
Next... it could be bows. Guns. Hunters. Ya get it yet?


----------



## H20fwler (Apr 1, 2014)

MattEilerman said:


> * But then again, I'm just a naive fool sucking the teet of the liberal media power machine...[/*QUOTE]
> 
> I agree


----------



## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

Some folks do not really understand the agenda that is in action.


----------



## da white shoe (Mar 10, 2009)

KS Bow Hunter said:


> Reading comprehension and logical arguments not your thing huh?


Nice come back.
Really got him with that one.
He'll probably have a tough time getting to sleep tonight.


----------



## KS Bow Hunter (Nov 22, 2013)

da white shoe said:


> Nice come back.
> Really got him with that one.
> He'll probably have a tough time getting to sleep tonight.


That made me laugh...kind of like I'm not going to be able to sleep for being intellectually dishonest... BWAHAHA!


----------



## Rolo (Dec 16, 2002)

KS Bow Hunter said:


> Go read this thread of start to finish...there is plenty of blind support, without knowing the facts...


Typical straw approach...refusing to provide any support for previous statements. I do agree there were a lot of people making conclusorry statements without knowing the facts, yet I read no one saying no matter what the facts are, I stand with the dentist...quite the opposite actually...



KS Bow Hunter said:


> I'm not trying to divert anything. In the end, all this will do is help more and more of the world hate hunters and Americans...


Well, when you intentionally make broad statements that are NOT supported by fact, what is it you are intending to do? And you're right, this whole deal may make folks "hate" hunters and Americans...with the help of "hunters" who like to make opinions about guilt without knowing all the information, and then sharing those opinions with the world. 



KS Bow Hunter said:


> I actually think that the dentist might not have known, but not knowing the law or if you are legal unfortunately doesn't make it OK or legal...


That's a long way from your original statement of guilt...and, if you had read the entire thread, you would know that if a person does not knowingly violoate some laws, it makes their actions legal as they apply to laws that have a mens rea element...



KS Bow Hunter said:


> And thanks for keeping me honest Rollie, not sure what I would do without someone on AT helping to keep me between the guard rails...


No idea who this 'Rollie' guy is...but I guess if he calls out dishonest argument, I like him...


----------



## da white shoe (Mar 10, 2009)

zap said:


> Some folks do not really understand the agenda that is in action.


Man! No kidding!
They can't all be 20 years old, can they Marty?


----------



## Michael Myers (Nov 13, 2008)

zap said:


> Some folks do not really understand the agenda that is in action.


Hey Zap,i can remember reading a post you had posted about hunters slowly trying to take other hunting methods away...Do you happen to have it tucked away somewhere?It was a good read,i can't seem to find it....Grizz


----------



## Billie (Jul 1, 2004)

KS Bow Hunter said:


> I don't mind guided hunts, I don't even mind conservation approaches to managing game in Africa that helps the cause.
> 
> I'm not into spending a fortune to kill an animal over bait, but apparently that's fun...
> 
> ...


What I Can't understand is the knee jerk reactions from HUNTERS that believe a report circulated to the media by the ZIM. Equivalent to PETA. Many couldn't wait one day to call for his extradition. This is an AMERICAN that according to the ZIM. Government report did NOTHING illegal until the landowner tag was submitted to have the cape shipped, and the landowner tag was found expired. That is the job of the PH to ensure that is correct. The entire story that everyone fell for was lies, and had been proven as such , but you still believe it. why? Why do you feel the need to say he did anything wrong? The hunt was legal, the hunter was legal, the kill was legal. The landowner messed up, and the PH was charged for it. This American is getting crucified for WHAT? He has money? He spends it to go hunting instead of going to Europe? He had a violation in the past that he paid for, and a missed fishing license? You don't have to ever go to Africa to hunt. That doesn't give you the right to say it's wrong.,


----------



## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

da white shoe said:


> Man! No kidding!
> They can't all be 20 years old, can they Marty?


Physically or mentally 20?



Grizz Outdoors said:


> Hey Zap,i can remember reading a post you had posted about hunters slowly trying to take other hunting methods away...Do you happen to have it tucked away somewhere?It was a good read,i can't seem to find it....Grizz


I don't know, but its goin on right here.....


----------



## Bulldog2nine (Jul 11, 2015)

Its always funny to me when they(liberals) run out of context, they(liberals) resort to demeaning or name calling. Never fails.


----------



## Rolo (Dec 16, 2002)

KS Bow Hunter said:


> Reading comprehension and logical arguments not your thing huh?


Right...you go from declaring the actions to be absolutely illegal...to saying that the guy may not be guilty of anything...and then accuse me of having a comprehension issue? 

I have a consistency issue...you need to decide which argument you are going to make, and stick with it...

But, hey, it is yet another example of straw argument 101...don't want to honestly debate...personally attack someone, and don't address the issues at all...


----------



## Fulldraw1972 (Jan 6, 2012)

NYSBowman said:


> I don't believe in crucifying the guy from the outset.....but I certainly am NOT going to publicly support him until all of the facts come out.
> 
> With that being said....previous CONVICTIONS(not allegations) for game violations leads one to believe that this guy isn't a stickler for the law. And...YES....previous criminal acts can and will be taken into account when this guy is judged(by the public and in the courts).
> 
> Whether legal or not.....the general public(and many in our ranks) don't look kindly on the many so-called "guided hunts" where the so-called "hunter" has an animal served up a silver platter. When someone pays $50k for a hunt......the kill is GUARANTEED. That ain't hunting IMO.


If you think $50 K is a guarantee for a big cat you really don't know much about big cat hunting. I know plenty of guys that haven't harvest a lion on a lion hunt.


----------



## da white shoe (Mar 10, 2009)

KS Bow Hunter said:


> That made me laugh...kind of like I'm not going to be able to sleep for being intellectually dishonest... BWAHAHA!


No. I said "he will."
Not "you will."


----------



## KS Bow Hunter (Nov 22, 2013)

da white shoe said:


> No. I said "he will."
> Not "you will."


I understand.


----------



## Michael Myers (Nov 13, 2008)

zap said:


> Physically or mentally 20?
> 
> 
> 
> *I don't know, but its goin on right here.....*


Yup...:cheers:


----------



## H20fwler (Apr 1, 2014)

Rolo said:


> More straw...more straw here...message and debate...nope, let's align folks with the 'anti's so one does not have to rationally respond to the discussion...a sign of desperation and ignorance...
> 
> You are indeed a hypocrite and its quite easy to see...


I agree with you 100% 
I put that liberal spreader of misinformation on ignore long ago. This thread has exposed a couple more agitators for the list too.


----------



## Billie (Jul 1, 2004)

NYSBowman said:


> I don't believe in crucifying the guy from the outset.....but I certainly am NOT going to publicly support him until all of the facts come out.
> 
> With that being said....previous CONVICTIONS(not allegations) for game violations leads one to believe that this guy isn't a stickler for the law. And...YES....previous criminal acts can and will be taken into account when this guy is judged(by the public and in the courts).
> 
> Whether legal or not.....the general public(and many in our ranks) don't look kindly on the many so-called "guided hunts" where the so-called "hunter" has an animal served up a silver platter. When someone pays $50k for a hunt......the kill is GUARANTEED. That ain't hunting IMO.


completely untrue. Anyone that has lion hunted In ZIM., and there are several here on AT that have, Would tell you that's an ignorant thing to say . You book a hunt for 14 to 18 days. There is no guarantee. You are out 30,000+ before you unpack your bow . If you kill one, you pay up the trophy fee. That's where the landowner gets his cut for the permit. Which in this case, the permit was expired. That's on the PH to make sure all the paperwork is correct. Silver platter aside, there is NO guarantee. 
Do you also have a problem with ALL guided hunts? You are aware that in many places, especially Africa, you cannot legally hunt without a guide? Many places in the US requires you to have a licensed guide to hunt. That "ain't hunting " either ?


----------



## KS Bow Hunter (Nov 22, 2013)

Rolo said:


> Right...you go from declaring the actions to be absolutely illegal...to saying that the guy may not be guilty of anything...and then accuse me of having a comprehension issue?
> 
> I have a consistency issue...you need to decide which argument you are going to make, and stick with it...
> 
> But, hey, it is yet another example of straw argument 101...don't want to honestly debate...personally attack someone, and don't address the issues at all...


OK, so I'll boil this down for you...

First I never said what he did was absolutely illegal, that is an incorrect summary of several different posts. I should have said "allegedly" in my first post, because as we all know it is too early and we don't have all the facts. What we do know is that the dentist has apologized, and as part of that apology, he indicated that he thought everything was legal, the implication being that something wasn't legal. According to what I've read on more than one occasion, and of course that could be untrue as I nor anyone else has any way to prove any of this, is that the lion was spot lighted at night, by the PH and the dentist, and baited onto the property of the land owner who didn't have the appropriate license to kill a lion. Allegedly he was shot with a crossbow, though that may be incorrect. So, if in fact he was killed with a crossbow, baited, and on property where he had no right to be killed, as I understand it, that is all illegal. So far 2 defendants, the land owner and the PH have been to court over it.

Now, does the dentist have any culpability here? I don't know for sure, but I'd bet my left nut that he knew exactly what was happening, and is just sorry that he got caught. Can I prove that? Nope...no one can prove the opposite either. I understand what mens rea means, and I doubt he was just some innocent hunter who didn't have a clue. Why? Well, he has been fined for illegally taking a bear, fishing without a license, and public records show he has settled sexual harassment cases. All that adds up to me at least, someone who thinks he is above the law...

Now, do I care about hunting in Africa and people with means doing it? To the extent that it helps the local economy and improves the state of game there, I'm for it. To the extent that it is just an ego trip for the rich, I'm not a fan. But I am not against the rich, or hunters.

I've been consistent in stating that IF he is guilty....my fault for not stating allegedly in my first post however...I've also said the guy should not be crucified if he isn't guilty but if he is, live with the decision. That isn't contradictory.

I've read more articles than I can recount on this topic, and yes, I firmly believe that there are people out there blindly supporting the dentist with silly comments like "it's just a cat!" that are not helpful to our cause and will ultimately hurt all of us as hunters.

I probably could have been a little more diligent in my first post, but I'm tired of both sides...the media and the antis for the slant (I've dealt with NGOs on behalf of large corporations, I get it) and the hunters and others blindly (my opinion) stating that it isn't that big of a deal and "who cares" which to me is just asinine. The big cats are majestic to me, and I want to see them around for generations to come.

Call that a straw man, inconsistent, intellectually dishonest or whatever else you'd like to, I don't really care...

That's my opinion, and I think it is well founded in fact. I don't have to prove that to you for it to be true...

Last, I didn't attack you, at least not on purpose...have a good night. I have to do some work now...


----------



## KimberTac1911 (Feb 27, 2012)

Billie said:


> completely untrue. Anyone that has lion hunted In ZIM., and there are several here on AT that have, Would tell you that's an ignorant thing to say . You book a hunt for 14 to 18 days. There is no guarantee. You are out 30,000+ before you unpack your bow . If you kill one, you pay up the trophy fee. That's where the landowner gets his cut for the permit. Which in this case, the permit was expired. That's on the PH to make sure all the paperwork is correct. Silver platter aside, there is NO guarantee.
> Do you also have a problem with ALL guided hunts? You are aware that in many places, especially Africa, you cannot legally hunt without a guide? Many places in the US requires you to have a licensed guide to hunt. That "ain't hunting " either ?


Not to side track thread to much but where do you have to have a guide here in the US to hunt? I have never heard of this in the midwest


----------



## Fulldraw1972 (Jan 6, 2012)

KimberTac1911 said:


> Not to side track thread to much but where do you have to have a guide here in the US to hunt? I have never heard of this in the midwest


You have to have a guide for brown bear, Dahl sheep and mountain goat in Alaska. You also have to have a guide if your going to hunt wilderness in Wyoming.


----------



## H20fwler (Apr 1, 2014)

KimberTac1911 said:


> Not to side track thread to much but where do you have to have a guide here in the US to hunt? I have never heard of this in the midwest


I'm not sure on that one, I know you do in many areas of Canada if you are a NR.


----------



## Billie (Jul 1, 2004)

KS Bow Hunter said:


> OK, so I'll boil this down for you...
> 
> First I never said what he did was absolutely illegal, that is an incorrect summary of several different posts. I should have said "allegedly" in my first post, because as we all know it is too early and we don't have all the facts. What we do know is that the dentist has apologized, and as part of that apology, he indicated that he thought everything was legal, the implication being that something wasn't legal. According to what I've read on more than one occasion, and of course that could be untrue as I nor anyone else has any way to prove any of this, is that the lion was spot lighted at night, by the PH and the dentist, and baited onto the property of the land owner who didn't have the appropriate license to kill a lion. Allegedly he was shot with a crossbow, though that may be incorrect. So, if in fact he was killed with a crossbow, baited, and on property where he had no right to be killed, as I understand it, that is all illegal. So far 2 defendants, the land owner and the PH have been to court over it.
> 
> ...


Not to get between the two of you, but I've read your posts , and you did take the lies about this story and make your mind up. 









You also bring in the majesty of lions , which has nothing to do with hunting them. If you don't want to , don't. Hunting is what's keeping them around . Now that ZIM. Will be banning all lion hunts, we can sit back and watch the locals kill them all, because they will be worthless now. Every cow they kill will be a nail in the coffin. They will be trapped, poisoned and snared, and in a decade they will be gone from ZIM, if not sooner. They are only tolerated by locals because hunters bring money. Lots of it. 
You judge this American for a violation in 2008, in which the officer that wrote him the citation testified it was an honest mistake . He then paid his 3000 and did his probation. He got ticketed once for not having a fishing license on him. And a sexual harassment suite? I know 3 dr.s that have settled suites just to make them go away. Unless he actually put his hands on a woman, which the suite says he DIDNT, I would give that some room. He commented on how a woman looked. A hanging offense certainly. She got 150,000, so I guess they are even. 
If you judge this lion killing by what the ZIM government reports, NOT the ZCTF, which is their version of PETA, this American was legal. He used a legal bow, he hunted over a legal bait, on private land. The landowner lied and had an expired permit. The PH has been charged, because it was his job to check the paperwork.


----------



## Bullhound (Feb 5, 2004)

KS Bow Hunter said:


> OK, so I'll boil this down for you...
> 
> First I never said what he did was absolutely illegal, that is an incorrect summary of several different posts. I should have said "allegedly" in my first post, because as we all know it is too early and we don't have all the facts. What we do know is that the dentist has apologized, and as part of that apology, he indicated that he thought everything was legal, the implication being that something wasn't legal. According to what I've read on more than one occasion, and of course that could be untrue as I nor anyone else has any way to prove any of this, is that the lion was spot lighted at night, by the PH and the dentist, and baited onto the property of the land owner who didn't have the appropriate license to kill a lion. Allegedly he was shot with a crossbow, though that may be incorrect. So, if in fact he was killed with a crossbow, baited, and on property where he had no right to be killed, as I understand it, that is all illegal. So far 2 defendants, the land owner and the PH have been to court over it.
> 
> ...


for crap sake, there are SOOO many things stated in this post that are CLEARLY NOT true, it makes a guy a little pissed just reading your comments. It would really be great if people/bowhunters, that I would think have some intellect, would do some real research before posting garbage like this.


----------



## Rolo (Dec 16, 2002)

KS Bow Hunter said:


> OK, so I'll boil this down for you...
> 
> First I never said what he did was absolutely illegal, that is an incorrect summary of several different posts. I should have said "allegedly" in my first post, because as we all know it is too early and we don't have all the facts. What we do know is that the dentist has apologized, and as part of that apology, he indicated that he thought everything was legal, the implication being that something wasn't legal. According to what I've read on more than one occasion, and of course that could be untrue as I nor anyone else has any way to prove any of this, is that the lion was spot lighted at night, by the PH and the dentist, and baited onto the property of the land owner who didn't have the appropriate license to kill a lion. Allegedly he was shot with a crossbow, though that may be incorrect. So, if in fact he was killed with a crossbow, baited, and on property where he had no right to be killed, as I understand it, that is all illegal. So far 2 defendants, the land owner and the PH have been to court over it.


Here's your first post:



KS Bow Hunter said:


> Pretty simple really. The lion was *illegally lured* off of a preserve with bait, *illegally shot* with a cross bow, and apparently suffered for another 40 hours before he was disposed of with a rifle.
> 
> The hunter and the guide *should both pay for the crime*...
> 
> ...


By my count, that's 4 uses of the word "illegal" or other form of it, throw in another reference to a "crime", and well yeah, it creates the impression that you "absolutely" said a number of things were illegal. In fact...it was "pretty simple really", the illegality of it all. 



KS Bow Hunter said:


> Now, does the dentist have any culpability here? I don't know for sure, but I'd bet my left nut that he knew exactly what was happening, and is just sorry that he got caught. Can I prove that? Nope...no one can prove the opposite either. I understand what mens rea means, and I doubt he was just some innocent hunter who didn't have a clue. Why? Well, he has been fined for illegally taking a bear, fishing without a license, and public records show he has settled sexual harassment cases. All that adds up to me at least, someone who thinks he is above the law...


Thanks for recognizing that you don't know, and that there is not enough information to know...that's the point. Like I said, 3 issues in 55 years, not bad. As far as the sexual harassment allegations...well in a large majority of cases, an insurance company has the call on whether there is or is not a settlement, and those decisions are often based on a sheer economic analysis. Without knowing the allegations or the amount of settlement that was paid, its hard to reach any conclusion...



KS Bow Hunter said:


> I've been consistent in stating that IF he is guilty....my fault for not stating allegedly in my first post however...I've also said the guy should not be crucified if he isn't guilty but if he is, live with the decision. That isn't contradictory.


Unless the term "consistent" has been redefined, you have not been consistent, and have admitted it...sort of...I am skeptical that you use the term "illegal" 4 times and also mention "crime " once, but merely overlooked including the word "allegedly...



KS Bow Hunter said:


> I've read more articles than I can recount on this topic, and yes, I firmly believe that there are people out there blindly supporting the dentist with silly comments like "it's just a cat!" that are not helpful to our cause and will ultimately hurt all of us as hunters.


I'm fairly certain the a good portion of the folks saying "it's only a cat" to the extent there are folks saying that, are doing so in comparison to the lives of humans...to that I agree, the life a human has far greater intrinsic worth than the life of a cat...that said, comparing this to the Planned Parenthood issue is also intellectually dishonest and an illegitimate comparison...I haven't seen or heard anyone with any sense of honesty say "it's just a cat, none of that other stuff matters"...however, it was a cat, and by definition, was not a person, it should not be compared to people,nor thought of as having human characteristics...it didn't...



KS Bow Hunter said:


> I probably could have been a little more diligent in my first post, but I'm tired of both sides...the media and the antis for the slant (I've dealt with NGOs on behalf of large corporations, I get it) and the hunters and others blindly (my opinion) stating that it isn't that big of a deal and "who cares" which to me is just asinine. The big cats are majestic to me, and I want to see them around for generations to come.


Then you really should think about supporting the legal hunting of them...conservationists are the only legitimate long term chance they have...



KS Bow Hunter said:


> Call that a straw man, inconsistent, intellectually dishonest or whatever else you'd like to, I don't really care...
> 
> That's my opinion, and I think it is well founded in fact. I don't have to prove that to you for it to be true...
> 
> Last, I didn't attack you, at least not on purpose...have a good night. I have to do some work now...


So that whole context and comprehension thing wasn't an attack? What was it then?

And, when you get the latest rendition of your opinion about this issue, I agree, it is based on reason, logic and the facts that are known...and please understand, calling a debate tactic what it is, is calling the debate tactic what it is...it is not calling the person engaging in the tactic anything...

Saying that people are "blindly supporting" this guy was an untrue statement, at least as it appears in this thread. It's a straw tactic intended to shift the debate from one supporting both an activity and a principal of due process and not jumping to conclusions, to one that attempts to lump those with the opposing view in with something less than legitimate..its the same principal when folks accuse others of being "anti hunters"...something that has also occurred in this thread... 

Oh yeah...personal opinion by definition is not "fact" it is opinion..to the extent that opinion is based on fact, logic and reason, compared to emotion, reaction, and the pulse of public opinion determines how informed or uninformed that opinion is...


----------



## H20fwler (Apr 1, 2014)

One of our chemists here at work was born and raised in Kenya came to USA for his Doctorate and Masters. I asked him what he thought of all this Cecil the lion stuff, he said he doesn't understand at all why Americans are so worked up over it there are lots of lions in Africa and many more important things to be concerned about in Africa... like hunger, poverty, AIDS and genocide.
I agreed.


----------



## COArrow (Nov 24, 2013)

H20fwler said:


> One of our chemists here at work was born and raised in Kenya came to USA for his Doctorate and Masters. I asked him what he thought of all this Cecil the lion stuff, he said he doesn't understand at all why Americans are so worked up over it there are lots of lions in Africa and many more important things to be concerned about in Africa... like hunger, poverty, AIDS and genocide.
> I agreed.


I understand his point but still get upset when an animal is taken illegally here in the states as well. You can get worked up about a topic without diminishing another.


----------



## 09blackonblack (Nov 9, 2011)

The average life span of a male lion is 10-14 years.... 
Either he lived 3 years longer than he should have, or he died 1 year early


----------



## Billie (Jul 1, 2004)

Bullhound said:


> for crap sake, there are SOOO many things stated in this post that are CLEARLY NOT true, it makes a guy a little pissed just reading your comments. It would really be great if people/bowhunters, that I would think have some intellect, would do some real research before posting garbage like this.


The initial news report was so full of misinformation it was little more that a blatant effort to lie . Spotlighting is NOT illegal in ZIM to look at wildlife . on private land in ZIM you can hunt them at night. In fact, it's a standard method to hunt many species in Africa at night. We can't apply what is legal here to other countries laws. The baiting was a kilometer away from the park, which is bigger that Connecticut. There is no fence. Animals come and go. It's almost ridiculous to say he used a cross bow. If they are not allowed in ZIM. You would never get through the customs agents with one. Any weapon you bring in has to be approved with the correct paperwork. ALL of these facts have been discussed on the 4 threads on AT about this mess , yet posters STILL quote that article as fact and think because a newspaper printed it, it must be true. If any hunter thinks the media is on our side, they need to read and think before they judge.


----------



## da white shoe (Mar 10, 2009)

Rolo said:


> Here's your first post:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Awesome post. Very well done.
In fact... you and Billie are truly my heros.
My only disagreement would be...
Questioning someones authenticity seems highly appropriate, judging by some people's statements in these threads.
Or, maybe I've grown so old and set in my ways that I just can't fathom someone not seeing this for what it is.


----------



## Kills meals (Nov 13, 2013)

Zap...with your avatar, thank you for representing that poor gay lion that was killed by the rich white racist. I am Cecil.....ukey:


----------



## Ol' red beard (Sep 2, 2013)

Maybe I'm wrong and this picture is incorrect but that seems to be cecil and Mr palmer ... the bow laying next to him doesn't look like a crossbow. I know he was killed with a rifle but have a hard time believing the news report that he used a crossbow which a special permit would be needed to use and then lay a compound next to the lion for his photo.


----------



## Ol' red beard (Sep 2, 2013)

That being said all the facts will be revealed soon enough and I'm sure he will or will not be punished accordingly.


----------



## da white shoe (Mar 10, 2009)

Ol' red beard said:


> Maybe I'm wrong and this picture is incorrect but that seems to be cecil and Mr palmer ... the bow laying next to him doesn't look like a crossbow. I know he was killed with a rifle but have a hard time believing the news report that he used a crossbow which a special permit would be needed to use and then lay a compound next to the lion for his photo.


My understanding is... this is not Cecil the friendly lion.
It's from a different hunt.


----------



## H20fwler (Apr 1, 2014)

"Despite leading a country with 80% unemployment, rampant crime and corruption, Robert Mugabe, the socialist ruler of Zimbabwe puts on lavish birthday parties for himself. 

Costing over a million dollars, the most recent party was held at a luxury lodge in Victoria Falls, Zimbabwe. 

Animals killed for the feast included two buffaloes, two sables, five impalas, 40 cows and Mugabe’s favorite a* baby elephant*. 

A full grown elephant was shot and given to the nearby villagers and a *trophy lion *and crocodile were killed to be mounted and put on display in Mugabe’s residence.

For desert, there were seven cakes, each the size of a mattress.

Guests were also treated to a 90-minute speech, in which Mugabe railed against America saying, “The USA can't have it both ways, if they want to be friends then they must be friends with us in total and we allow them to have some safaris. But they can't say 'allow our people to visit, allow our people to have safaris, to kill our lions and take safari trophies to America'."

Before Mugabe took over, the Zimbabwe dollar was worth more than the United States dollar. But after his election on a platform of “change” and “redistributing the wealth” he seized the property of landowners and made devastating economic changes that resulted in inflation rates that Jimmy Carter could have only dreamed of. 

Inflation rates ballooned into tens of millions of percent to the point where the cost of the paper money was printed on was worth more than the dollars printed on it. Anyone receiving money for work or goods sold in Zimbabwe would have to immediately buy something with the money as it would lose value at warp speed. No one could save or invest their money as it would be worthless in days if not hours.

Zimbabwe had to keep printing larger and larger bank notes with the largest reaching One Hundred Trillion Dollars…

http://banknoteworld.com/shop/images/D/3-25.JPG

Finally when no supplier in the world would continue to sell paper on credit for the printing of Zimbabwe money, the county discontinued printing their own bills. 

For a brief period Zimbabweans were allowed to exchange 175 quadrillion (175,000,000,000,000,000) Zimbabwean dollars for five US dollars."


----------



## H20fwler (Apr 1, 2014)

I'm thinking the folks in Zimbabwe could care less about some lion...........




" *Human rights in Zimbabwe*



A demonstration in London against Robert Mugabe. Protests are discouraged by Zimbabwean police in Zimbabwe. 
There are widespread reports of systematic and escalating violations of human rights in Zimbabwe under the Mugabe administration and his party, the ZANU-PF.

In 2011, there were reports of 640 corpses having been recovered from the Monkey William Mine in Chibondo. They were allegedly authenticated by the Fallen Heroes Trust of Zimbabwe and the Department of National Museums and Monuments who are leading the exhumation process as victims of the Ian Smith regime during the liberation war. One body was identified as a ZANLA cadre, Cde Rauya, by the Fallen Heroes Trust Chief exhumer. Government Minister, Saviour Kasukuwere admitted the remains were discovered in 2008, but claimed the remains were decades old despite clear evidence the exhumed skeletons still had hair and clothes. But Solidarity Peace Trust, said that the presence of soft tissues "is not necessarily an indicator that these bones entered the grave more recently, although it could be." Journalists found a body in the mine with 'what appeared to be blood and fluids dripping onto the skulls below'. The opposition MDC called for research on all violence that included killings of its supporters during disputed elections in 2008. Amnesty International expressed concern that "international best practice on exhumations is not being adhered to." Adding that, "mishandling of these mass graves has serious implications on potential exhumations of other sites in Zimbabwe. Thousands of civilians were also killed in Matabeleland and Midlands provinces in the mid 1980s and are allegedly buried in mine shafts and mass graves in these regions."

According to human rights organisations such as Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch the government of Zimbabwe violates the rights to shelter, food, freedom of movement and residence, freedom of assembly and the protection of the law. There have been alleged assaults on the media, the political opposition, civil society activists, and human rights defenders.

Opposition gatherings are frequently the subject of brutal attacks by the police force, such as the crackdown on an 11 March 2007 Movement for Democratic Change (MDC) rally and several others during the 2008 election campaign.[94] In the attacks of 2007, party leader Morgan Tsvangirai and 49 other opposition activists were arrested and severely beaten by the police. After his release, Morgan Tsvangirai told the BBC that he suffered head injuries and blows to the arms, knees and back, and that he lost a significant amount of blood.

Police action was strongly condemned by the UN Secretary-General, Ban Ki-moon, the European Union and the United States. While noting that the activists had suffered injuries, but not mentioning the cause of them, the Zimbabwean government-controlled daily newspaper The Herald claimed the police had intervened after demonstrators "ran amok looting shops, destroying property, mugging civilians, and assaulting police officers and innocent members of the public". The newspaper also argued that the opposition had been "willfully violating the ban on political rallies".

There are also abuses of media rights and access. The Zimbabwean government suppresses freedom of the press and freedom of speech. It has also been repeatedly accused of using the public broadcaster, the Zimbabwe Broadcasting Corporation, as a propaganda tool. Newspapers critical of the government, such as the Daily News, closed after bombs exploded at their offices and the government refused to renew their license. BBC News, Sky News, and CNN were banned from filming or reporting from Zimbabwe. In 2009 reporting restrictions on the BBC and CNN were lifted. Sky News continue to report on happenings within Zimbabwe from neighbouring countries like South Africa.

In February 2013, Zimbabwe's election chief, Simpson Mtambanengwe, resigned due to ill health. His resignation came months before the country's constitutional referendum and elections."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zimbabwe



And some actually believe the USA is going to extradite this dentists to this sub third world country over a lion? Bawahahahaha


----------



## KimberTac1911 (Feb 27, 2012)

Fulldraw1972 said:


> You have to have a guide for brown bear, Dahl sheep and mountain goat in Alaska. You also have to have a guide if your going to hunt wilderness in Wyoming.


Interesting is it for non resident hunts only?


----------



## Michael Myers (Nov 13, 2008)

Zimbabwe and most of those countries are just cess pools ridden with disease and poverty,i know for one i am sick of donating and our tax dollars being sent to Africa.....screw them...Let's look after our own starving, poor and homeless.....Grizz


----------



## Fulldraw1972 (Jan 6, 2012)

KimberTac1911 said:


> Interesting is it for non resident hunts only?


Yes


----------



## 2wheels1love (Mar 7, 2015)

We will never know the truth about if this guy knew what he was doing or not. If he for some reason admits to knowing it was illegal in court it'd only be a requirement of a plea deal. Fact is only he an his guide know and only ever will know what really happen. I had a negative initial reaction because of my own personal thoughts on guided hunts. To me their not hunts it's just target practice, if I had a great piece of land where I raised whitetail or had permanent feeders set out at specific places and brought you in to hunt, took you to a spot where I know the animals will be, and let you take one, what exactly did you hunt? All you did was make a shot no different than target shooting for me. For that reason I have no pity for this guy and the fact he's done this multiple times reinforces it for me. Besides the other things he's been found to be doing at his practice not hunting related makes me think he's just a scumbag who's karma finally caught up with him... Don't care about him or the legality of his "hunt". Sometimes people just get what they deserve, sometimes it's all warranted sometimes it's not. By time this is settled the media won't be reporting on it anymore and no one will know. Or care...


----------



## Billie (Jul 1, 2004)

2wheels1love said:


> We will never know the truth about if this guy knew what he was doing or not. If he for some reason admits to knowing it was illegal in court it'd only be a requirement of a plea deal. Fact is only he an his guide know and only ever will know what really happen. I had a negative initial reaction because of my own personal thoughts on guided hunts. To me their not hunts it's just target practice, if I had a great piece of land where I raised whitetail or had permanent feeders set out at specific places and brought you in to hunt, took you to a spot where I know the animals will be, and let you take one, what exactly did you hunt? All you did was make a shot no different than target shooting for me. For that reason I have no pity for this guy and the fact he's done this multiple times reinforces it for me. Besides the other things he's been found to be doing at his practice not hunting related makes me think he's just a scumbag who's karma finally caught up with him... Don't care about him or the legality of his "hunt". Sometimes people just get what they deserve, sometimes it's all warranted sometimes it's not. By time this is settled the media won't be reporting on it anymore and no one will know. Or care...


Your opinion is yours, but your comments about guided hunts are ridiculous. Your comparison to shooting a whitetail over a corn feeder as the same as a lion hunt shows a lack of knowledge about hunting in Africa, where things can and will kill you. That's why you can't hunt WITHOUT a licensed PH. And your statement that since this American has done it "multiple times" smacks of a jealousy thing from you, because you have said THAT several times. Why is that wrong? He hunts in Africa. That's how you have to hunt in Africa. You say you don't care if it's legal or not...he got what he deserved. I think that is exactly what you think.


----------



## Bullhound (Feb 5, 2004)

Billie said:


> The initial news report was so full of misinformation it was little more that a blatant effort to lie . Spotlighting is NOT illegal in ZIM to look at wildlife . on private land in ZIM you can hunt them at night. In fact, it's a standard method to hunt many species in Africa at night. We can't apply what is legal here to other countries laws. The baiting was a kilometer away from the park, which is bigger that Connecticut. There is no fence. Animals come and go. It's almost ridiculous to say he used a cross bow. If they are not allowed in ZIM. You would never get through the customs agents with one. Any weapon you bring in has to be approved with the correct paperwork.* ALL of these facts have been discussed on the 4 threads on AT about this mess , yet posters STILL quote that article as fact and think because a newspaper printed it, it must be true.* If any hunter thinks the media is on our side, they need to read and think before they judge.


agreed. This is what I was referring to.


----------



## George Charles (Oct 18, 2012)

Airlines are now banning shipment of certain animals because of this topic. Whether you agree or not on this "We as Hunters better stick together." You might want to switch topics & read some of the posts about the airlines in other threads.


----------



## da white shoe (Mar 10, 2009)

2wheels1love said:


> We will never know the truth about if this guy knew what he was doing or not. If he for some reason admits to knowing it was illegal in court it'd only be a requirement of a plea deal. Fact is only he an his guide know and only ever will know what really happen. I had a negative initial reaction because of my own personal thoughts on guided hunts. To me their not hunts it's just target practice, if I had a great piece of land where I raised whitetail or had permanent feeders set out at specific places and brought you in to hunt, took you to a spot where I know the animals will be, and let you take one, what exactly did you hunt? All you did was make a shot no different than target shooting for me. For that reason I have no pity for this guy and the fact he's done this multiple times reinforces it for me. Besides the other things he's been found to be doing at his practice not hunting related makes me think he's just a scumbag who's karma finally caught up with him... Don't care about him or the legality of his "hunt". Sometimes people just get what they deserve, sometimes it's all warranted sometimes it's not. By time this is settled the media won't be reporting on it anymore and no one will know. Or care...


Brilliant. 
You must make a lot of money from your psychic ability.
Or, more likely, you have a ton of preconceived notions and 
a ton of pent up rage... to the point of being ridiculous.


----------



## BigDeer (Aug 9, 2005)

2wheels1love said:


> We will never know the truth about if this guy knew what he was doing or not. If he for some reason admits to knowing it was illegal in court it'd only be a requirement of a plea deal. Fact is only he an his guide know and only ever will know what really happen. I had a negative initial reaction because of my own personal thoughts on guided hunts. To me their not hunts it's just target practice, if I had a great piece of land where I raised whitetail or had permanent feeders set out at specific places and brought you in to hunt, took you to a spot where I know the animals will be, and let you take one, what exactly did you hunt? All you did was make a shot no different than target shooting for me. For that reason I have no pity for this guy and the fact he's done this multiple times reinforces it for me. Besides the other things he's been found to be doing at his practice not hunting related makes me think he's just a scumbag who's karma finally caught up with him... Don't care about him or the legality of his "hunt". Sometimes people just get what they deserve, sometimes it's all warranted sometimes it's not. By time this is settled the media won't be reporting on it anymore and no one will know. Or care...


You don't care about the legality of this hunt, you just want to crucify him over your beliefs in outfitters, feeders, and hunts of this type (which you have to do over in Africa, is hunt how the PH tell you to hunt). Get educated on the subject.

shame


----------



## George Charles (Oct 18, 2012)

Ttt


George Charles said:


> Airlines are now banning shipment of certain animals because of this topic. Whether you agree or not on this "We as Hunters better stick together." You might want to switch topics & read some of the posts about the airlines in other threads.


----------



## dimbledumble (Jun 25, 2015)

Hunters arguing amongst hunters??!!!!

This is not the exact outcome that these anti-hunting people want????

If you dont believe in hunting period...... no matter the method.... then , we as a band, are doomed!!!!!!!!!


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 17, 2005)

Ptoid said:


> African lions are making the endangered list. And worst of all, i read that he used a crossbow


African lions are NOT on the endangered list. You are just as bad as the anti's using BS to base and spread your opinion.


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 17, 2005)

KS Bow Hunter said:


> First I never said what he did was absolutely illegal, that is an incorrect summary of several different posts.


I've read enough of your posts to call BS on that. You made it perfectly clear from the beginning that your conclusion was that the hunt/kill was illegal, and the guy was a poacher that should be punished.


----------



## BigDeer (Aug 9, 2005)

[email protected] said:


> I've read enough of your posts to call BS on that. You made it perfectly clear from the beginning that your conclusion was that the hunt/kill was illegal, and the guy was a poacher that should be punished.


see post 565 which confirms your post.


----------



## COArrow (Nov 24, 2013)

It is an emotional topic, but it seems the vocal minority in the outdoor world support this guy. For many of us distancing yourself from a person with previous legal issues and involved in shady event now makes sense. It is like the church protecting the criminals in the church, turned out to not be a great idea in the long run.


----------



## George Charles (Oct 18, 2012)

What is your thoughts on the Commercial airlines banning transport of legal animals because of this topic?


[email protected] said:


> I've read enough of your posts to call BS on that. You made it perfectly clear from the beginning that your conclusion was that the hunt/kill was illegal, and the guy was a poacher that should be punished.


*Originally Posted by*KS Bow Hunter*

First I never said what he did was absolutely illegal, that is an incorrect summary of several different posts.


----------



## dimbledumble (Jun 25, 2015)

COArrow said:


> It is an emotional topic, but it seems the vocal minority in the outdoor world support this guy. For many of us distancing yourself from a person with previous legal issues and involved in shady event now makes sense. It is like the church protecting the criminals in the church, turned out to not be a great idea in the long run.


Just like religion right??? 

Cause i dont believe...... that makes me an "Athiest?"

Maybe we should have "Athiests" among hunters cause i dont agree with your thoughts on how to hunt!!!?????????


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 17, 2005)

COArrow said:


> It is an emotional topic, but it seems the vocal minority in the outdoor world support this guy. For many of us distancing yourself from a person with previous legal issues and involved in shady event now makes sense. It is like the church protecting the criminals in the church, turned out to not be a great idea in the long run.


The intelligent segment of the outdoor world choose to wait for actual "FACTS" to make our minds up on the guy and this specific hunt. I can't even believe the number of people that actually believe that baby parts are being sold...so it's no wonder what people will believe in terms of killing (or poaching) a lion. 

If it turns out the lion was poached and the hunter is guilty...then no one with any intelligence will support "him". But it's way larger than just "him" and if this specific hunt was legal, illegal, or a mixture. It has turned into people (including hunters) spouting off about lion hunting that have no actual clue what is involved, and into hunting in Africa, and into "trophy hunting". Now airlines are not allowing "trophies" on their planes. Think it doesn't apply to everyone that hunts? That means when I go to FL to kill pigs I can't bring back the skulls, if I were flying their line. "Trophy hunting" involves everyone that hunts - period. And here is the kicker: Even if hypothetically speaking, if all aspects of this hunt prove out to be legal...all the backlash is still there, for "him" and hunting.

As a simple example (one of many surrounding this thing)...people keep making judgements about him and the hunt because the lion had a collar. The FACT is that the collar probably wasn't visible, and a collar doesn't make it tame, nor illegal. The FACT is that I know a guy that has killed two lions that were tagged with research collars. Neither collar was visible, and they were discovered after the kill...and returned to the researchers. I hunt within a half mile of a MO state park. I can promise you that I am hunting bucks that live there but leave during the rut. I can also promise you any buck worth shooting that comes by me with a collar will get shot without a second thought. (We have a trail cam of a doe with a collar, so not impossible.) 

No hunter likes the anti's twisting and turning facts around and the way they use emotions over facts to support the decisions in their heads, but yet...I see hunters everywhere doing the same exact BS when it comes to this dentist, this hunt, and lion hunting in general.


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 17, 2005)

George Charles said:


> What is your thoughts on the Commercial airlines banning transport of legal animals because of this topic?


Not sure why you are asking me that, or what that has to do with my post. But, I think it is total BS and it affects every hunter that may ever want to fly and hunt. I also think it has zero to do with the outcome of the facts surrounding this particular kill (legal or poached). It pretty much demonstrates how jacked up our society is today.


----------



## COArrow (Nov 24, 2013)

[email protected] said:


> The intelligent segment of the outdoor world choose to wait for actual "FACTS" to make our minds up on the guy and this specific hunt. I can't even believe the number of people that actually believe that baby parts are being sold...so it's no wonder what people will believe in terms of killing (or poaching) a lion.
> 
> If it turns out the lion was poached and the hunter is guilty...then no one with any intelligence will support "him". But it's way larger than just "him" and if this specific hunt was legal, illegal, or a mixture. It has turned into people (including hunters) spouting off about lion hunting that have no actual clue what is involved, and into hunting in Africa, and into "trophy hunting". Now airlines are not allowing "trophies" on their planes. Think it doesn't apply to everyone that hunts? That means when I go to FL to kill pigs I can't bring back the skulls, if I were flying their line. "Trophy hunting" involves everyone that hunts - period. And here is the kicker: Even if hypothetically speaking, if all aspects of this hunt prove out to be legal...all the backlash is still there, for "him" and hunting.
> 
> ...


I don't disagree about waiting for facts, that is why I would not currently support him. The only fact we know is that he is not foreign to previous legal issues. Also I agree the whole planned parenthood uproar is a product of the media as well. It is amazing what people will believe.


----------



## mjsmitty (Sep 22, 2010)




----------



## [email protected] (Jan 17, 2005)

[email protected] said:


> Now airlines are not allowing "trophies" on their planes. Think it doesn't apply to everyone that hunts? That means when I go to FL to kill pigs I can't bring back the skulls, if I were flying their line.


Clarification. Based on a press release I just read, this statement of mine doesn't equate. So far, the ban is on "certain species" and the list doesn't include wild hogs.


----------



## Elvis_Is_Dead (Nov 25, 2009)

mjsmitty said:


> View attachment 2599617


That's funny


----------



## Ptoid (Mar 8, 2014)

[email protected] said:


> African lions are NOT on the endangered list. You are just as bad as the anti's using BS to base and spread your opinion.


Thats why I said "are making," meaning they soon will be. Nice use of caps. Try to slow down, read carefully, think, then type. Just a suggestion. 

Yeah I am as bad as the antis if I dont get hiring sketchy guides to kill an animal whose species is fast disappearing. Thats my opinion. My use of the proposal of the African Lion to the endangered is not opinion but fact. You can call it bs, and you are correct that they are endangered, but my post in no way attempts to delude anyone with a reasonable command of the English language. 

What I don't get how many of you blindly defend someone who might not deserve it. In my opinion, thats bs


----------



## I like Meat (Feb 14, 2009)

Many on here are not needlessly defending Palmer, many are defending the right and need to hunt and to hunt big game animals that are legal and not threatened or endangered....esp. the big 5, or any of the plains game for that matter....I'm sick of the know it all anti-trophy hunters....with out a value on these great animals poachers will diminish and wipe 'em out in 10 years or so.... it wont be legalized and managed hunting that does it.....never in history has MANAGED LEGAL HUNTING resulted in the demise of a specie....if anything, these animals have flourished... it is when the protection put forth by legalized hunting disappears, that these animals become threatened.... some of these animals live on the edge or demise because of civilized encroachment and loss of habitat, not managed hunting.....


----------



## Kansas Bruisers (Dec 14, 2006)

Ptoid said:


> What I don't get how many of you blindly defend someone who might not deserve it. In my opinion, thats bs


There might be a few blindly defending him, but there are many more, including you, that are blindly judging him without any facts. Most hunters would agree, if he made a choice to kill this lion illegally he should be held accountable. What we are defending is how he is being treated before anyone knows what really happened. In my opinion, that's bs.


----------



## Billie (Jul 1, 2004)

Ptoid said:


> Thats why I said "are making," meaning they soon will be. Nice use of caps. Try to slow down, read carefully, think, then type. Just a suggestion.
> 
> Yeah I am as bad as the antis if I dont get hiring sketchy guides to kill an animal whose species is fast disappearing. Thats my opinion. My use of the proposal of the African Lion to the endangered is not opinion but fact. You can call it bs, and you are correct that they are endangered, but my post in no way attempts to delude anyone with a reasonable command of the English language.
> 
> What I don't get how many of you blindly defend someone who might not deserve it. In my opinion, thats bs


What I don't get is how many of YOU are blindly crucifying him on the reports of an antihunting groups report to the media. It my opinion, that's BS.


----------



## Ptoid (Mar 8, 2014)

Kansas Bruisers said:


> There might be a few blindly defending him, but there are many more, including you, that are blindly judging him without any facts. Most hunters would agree, if he made a choice to kill this lion illegally he should be held accountable. What we are defending is how he is being treated before anyone knows what really happened. In my opinion, that's bs.


Im not blindly judging him. I might be able to more accurately judge him with more fact, but I dont need to know more to dislike his actions. 

I think hunting animals that are in a position such as african lions is egotistical and reminiscent of arrogant colonialist notions of the 19th century. If they want to control the population, let them do it.

At least shoot some kudu or something that isnt as threatened. Or better yet hunt the animals in your own hemisphere.


----------



## kenny_TNT_tv (Dec 22, 2010)

Ptoid said:


> Im not blindly judging him. I might be able to more accurately judge him with more fact, but I dont need to know more to dislike his actions.
> 
> I think hunting animals that are in a position such as african lions is egotistical and reminiscent of arrogant colonialist notions of the 19th century. If they want to control the population, let them do it.
> 
> At least shoot some kudu or something that isnt as threatened. Or better yet hunt the animals in your own hemisphere.


Can you reference some SOLID FACTS regarding lions being endangered species? Im sick of reading all this bull**** about how the lions are endangered, blah blah blah. I also am sick of seeing the media destroy someones livelihood without knowing the full details of what happened. Nothing wrong with legally killing a lion. I have two friends who have done just that in the last 3 years.


----------



## Ptoid (Mar 8, 2014)

Billie said:


> What I don't get is how many of YOU are blindly crucifying him on the reports of an antihunting groups report to the media. It my opinion, that's BS.


Where did I "crucify" him? Look that one up dude, youre getting carried away. 

I dont know the specifics, but I dont thinkthat all the info is coming from anti hunting groups. 

Perhaps some is coming from animal rights orgNizations, but theyre not always wrong.


----------



## Ptoid (Mar 8, 2014)

kenny_TNT_tv said:


> Can you reference some SOLID FACTS regarding lions being endangered species? Im sick of reading all this bull**** about how the lions are endangered, blah blah blah. I also am sick of seeing the media destroy someones livelihood without knowing the full details of what happened. Nothing wrong with legally killing a lion. I have two friends who have done just that in the last 3 years.


http://blogs.scientificamerican.com...could-gain-endangered-species-act-protection/

Im so sorry that youre tired. Get some sleep bruh. 

Agreed that the media is a monster. Still dont think its right to hunt these guys.


----------



## BigDeer (Aug 9, 2005)

Ptoid said:


> Im not blindly judging him. I might be able to more accurately judge him with more fact, but I dont need to know more to dislike his actions.
> 
> I think hunting animals that are in a position such as african lions is egotistical and reminiscent of arrogant colonialist notions of the 19th century. If they want to control the population, let them do it.
> 
> At least shoot some kudu or something that isnt as threatened. Or better yet hunt the animals in your own hemisphere.





Ptoid said:


> Where did I "crucify" him? Look that one up dude, youre getting carried away.
> 
> I dont know the specifics, but I dont thinkthat all the info is coming from anti hunting groups.
> 
> Perhaps some is coming from animal rights orgNizations, but theyre not always wrong.


1. It's not for you, you've expressed as much
2. You don't know the specifics

It's all sketchy on what happened over there. I'm sure he did what the PH told him to do. Read up on some of the posts from people that have hunted there.

It's obvious your viewpoint is swayed by your stance on hunting animals that aren't on the endangered list but are "making to be" or however you stated it.


----------



## Ptoid (Mar 8, 2014)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...3904a0-5de9-11e4-91f7-5d89b5e8c251_story.html


----------



## Ptoid (Mar 8, 2014)

BigDeer said:


> 1. It's not for you, you've expressed as much
> 2. You don't know the specifics
> 
> yet you continue on...?


Yes, its quite simple. I dont need to know more because i think hunting an animal in this position is wrong. 

Am i determining legal guilt wo facts, no.


----------



## BigDeer (Aug 9, 2005)

Ptoid said:


> Yes, its quite simple. I dont need to know more because i think hunting an animal in this position is wrong.
> 
> Am i determining legal guilt wo facts, no.


Then take it up with the countries that still promote the license sales of Lion tags/permits, easy enough if you are truly that concerned with it.


----------



## Ptoid (Mar 8, 2014)

Sure, and those among us that fill them, such as our dentist. Because the opportunity exists it doesnt mean you have to do it.


----------



## Chris1ny (Oct 23, 2006)

kenny_TNT_tv said:


> ..I also am sick of seeing the media destroy someones livelihood without knowing the full details of what happened...


Agree 100%. The mob justice needs to stop...what goes around comes around.


----------



## kenny_TNT_tv (Dec 22, 2010)

Ptoid said:


> http://blogs.scientificamerican.com...could-gain-endangered-species-act-protection/
> 
> Im so sorry that youre tired. Get some sleep bruh.
> 
> Agreed that the media is a monster. Still dont think its right to hunt these guys.


"The official FWS position, however, iterated today by Ashe, is that sports hunting does not contribute to lions being endangered, especially when revenues from these hunts support lion conservation efforts" -From your little link you posted. Seems that if this article is indeed true, hunting has nothing to do with them becoming extinct . Therefore, not hunting them would decrease the time in which they MAY become extinct. Im off to take a nap bruh.


----------



## Ptoid (Mar 8, 2014)

I actually am going to take one with my two year old 

I did read that and it doesnt change my opinion- its wrong. Hunting may not hurt the population ( be careful about anyone encroaching upon an industry) but it cant help. 

When my sons thirty five, what will he do with my lion mount of the then extinct african lion?


----------



## Ptoid (Mar 8, 2014)

Btw you could just contribute to wildlife preservation efforts without killing anything.


----------



## kenny_TNT_tv (Dec 22, 2010)

Its already been proving many times over that hunting ,IN FACT , does help an animals population. I can`t believe you are actually on a hunting forum saying things like that anyway. Teddy Roosevelt is flipping you off right now.


----------



## Ptoid (Mar 8, 2014)

And ironically kenny this dentist has really caused a groundswell for preservation efforts. But we never celebrate pontius pilate day do we?


----------



## Ptoid (Mar 8, 2014)

Teddys super dead son.


----------



## Ptoid (Mar 8, 2014)

Theodore Roosevelt: "yeah @$$&&"@! You Ptoid! Hold on theres how many lions left? Jeez"


----------



## Rolo (Dec 16, 2002)

There's no irony to see here...



Ptoid said:


> What I don't get how many of you blindly defend someone who might not deserve it. In my opinion, thats bs





Billie said:


> What I don't get is how many of YOU are blindly crucifying him on the reports of an antihunting groups report to the media. It my opinion, that's BS.





Ptoid said:


> Im not blindly judging him.


----------



## Kansas Bruisers (Dec 14, 2006)

Ptoid said:


> And ironically kenny this dentist has really caused a groundswell for preservation efforts. But we never celebrate pontius pilate day do we?


Do you believe the lion population will increase if lion hunting is banned?


----------



## BigDeer (Aug 9, 2005)

Ptoid said:


> Sure, and those among us that fill them, such as our dentist. Because the *legal *opportunity exists it doesnt mean you have to do it.


Fixed..


----------



## Rolo (Dec 16, 2002)

Ptoid said:


> And ironically kenny this dentist has really caused a groundswell for preservation efforts. But we never celebrate pontius pilate day do we?


A groundswell of people saying preservation...but also people who will do nothing to help that preservation along based on historical example...they are of the thought that stopping hunting is the preservation itself...which is incredibly myopic and historically incorrect...

But hey, they got to yell really loud for a cause, and then moved on to the next cause, never actually contributing anything to preservation...


----------



## Cold Weather (Dec 17, 2008)

Ptoid said:


> Im not blindly judging him. I might be able to more accurately judge him with more fact, but I dont need to know more to dislike his actions.
> 
> I think hunting animals that are in a position such as african lions is egotistical and reminiscent of arrogant colonialist notions of the 19th century. If they want to control the population, let them do it.
> 
> At least shoot some kudu or something that isnt as threatened. Or better yet hunt the animals in your own hemisphere.


I agree. I think someone who wants to kill animals like lions mentally deranged. There's just no sense to it.


----------



## BigDeer (Aug 9, 2005)

Cold Weather said:


> I agree. I think someone who wants to kill animals like lions mentally deranged. There's just no sense to it.


I wouldn't hunt a lion or any other African game even if it was free. Doesn't appeal to me. That being said I see the big picture and legal hunting I'll defend as long as I can.


----------



## Billie (Jul 1, 2004)

Cold Weather said:


> I agree. I think someone who wants to kill animals like lions mentally deranged. There's just no sense to it.


What animals do you think are ok to kill?


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 17, 2005)

Ptoid said:


> Thats why I said "are making," meaning they soon will be. Nice use of caps. Try to slow down, read carefully, think, then type. Just a suggestion.
> 
> Yeah I am as bad as the antis if I dont get hiring sketchy guides to kill an animal whose species is fast disappearing. Thats my opinion. My use of the proposal of the African Lion to the endangered is not opinion but fact. You can call it bs, and you are correct that they are endangered, but my post in no way attempts to delude anyone with a reasonable command of the English language.
> 
> What I don't get how many of you blindly defend someone who might not deserve it. In my opinion, thats bs


What facts are you basing your statement that they are "making the endangered species list"? This should be interesting. Note that I said facts, not the links you posted already. 

And, don't lump me into the "many of you" defending the guy. I neither defend, nor attack him. To do either is silly, given my lack of factual knowledge surrounding him and this lion kill.


----------



## Elvis_Is_Dead (Nov 25, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> What facts are you basing your statement that they are "making the endangered species list"? This should be interesting.
> 
> And, don't lump me into the "many of you" defending the guy. I neither defend, nor attack him. To do either is silly, given my lack of factual knowledge surrounding him and this lion kill.


Will ISIS ever be put on the endangered species list?


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 17, 2005)

Cold Weather said:


> I agree. I think someone who wants to kill animals like lions mentally deranged. There's just no sense to it.


What does "animals like lions" even mean? What makes your mental capacity different than mine because your choice in what animals you hunt differs? This is a perfect example of the ridiculous thought process that mirror exactly what anti-hunters use.


----------



## Darrens6601 (Jul 16, 2015)

Cold Weather said:


> I agree. I think someone who wants to kill animals like lions mentally deranged. There's just no sense to it.


What do you hunt if I may ask??


----------



## 2wheels1love (Mar 7, 2015)

BigDeer said:


> You don't care about the legality of this hunt, you just want to crucify him over your beliefs in outfitters, feeders, and hunts of this type (which you have to do over in Africa, is hunt how the PH tell you to hunt). Get educated on the subject.
> 
> shame


An opinion is an opinion, your not required to share mine. That's what the letters IMO mean. And IMO having someone bring you to an animal so you can shoot it isn't hunting. What part of that is the hunt exactly? Hunting the yellow pages for someone to take you right to an animal? If that's how you do it than great go for it. Me, I like to actually hunt it gives me actual satisfaction when I'm able to get one. I don't see how you can call being brought to an animal to shoot hunting. That's called shooting to me. I have buddies who do it, go to ranches every year down south to hunt. An when the rest of us hear their stories it's insane that they think their hunting. They get driven out to a blind where there guaranteed an animal of their choice, and they just shoot it. Just is Not for me... My opinion on the dentist clown has to do with his other charges as well not just the hunting. He was allegedly charged with sexual misconduct with a female patiant who was under the gas, and it was more than once. So yea I 100% believe he's just another scumbag...


----------



## George Charles (Oct 18, 2012)

Agree or disagree on the topic. Regardless, you should read this: https://www.yahoo.com/travel/to-hunt-or-not-to-hunt-that-is-the-question-125842518772.html


With enough support it could happen here just as easily.


----------



## Bullhound (Feb 5, 2004)

Elvis_Is_Dead said:


> Will ISIS ever be put on the endangered species list?


not as long as that clown is the president.


----------



## Ptoid (Mar 8, 2014)

Rolo said:


> A groundswell of people saying preservation...but also people who will do nothing to help that preservation along based on historical example...they are of the thought that stopping hunting is the preservation itself...which is incredibly myopic and historically incorrect...
> 
> But hey, they got to yell really loud for a cause, and then moved on to the next cause, never actually contributing anything to preservation...


No, the average person might not do much but overall this was the most attention paid tp lion preservation in many a year. There will be a lot of money contributed since it will be fashionable


----------



## YRhinefield (Feb 22, 2006)

23 American Veterans commit suicide every day and NO ONE CARES. 1 Lion gets killed and our friggin country is in an uproar.....go figure


----------



## Ptoid (Mar 8, 2014)

Kansas Bruisers said:


> Do you believe the lion population will increase if lion hunting is banned?


Based upon the size probably, but thats a guess. I think that we as sportsmen should stay out of it. If they need to kill let the biologists and the locals do it. This notion of slaying this jungle beast seems a bit antiquated given the context, like youre living out your great grandfathers adventure. 
My .02 though, i hope everyone gets a fair shake and that theres lion in zimbabwe for my grandkids


----------



## Ol' red beard (Sep 2, 2013)

Grizz Outdoors said:


> Zimbabwe and most of those countries are just cess pools ridden with disease and poverty,i know for one i am sick of donating and our tax dollars being sent to Africa.....screw them...Let's look after our own starving, poor and homeless.....Grizz


I agree with this


----------



## Ptoid (Mar 8, 2014)

2wheels1love said:


> An opinion is an opinion, your not required to share mine. That's what the letters IMO mean. And IMO having someone bring you to an animal so you can shoot it isn't hunting. What part of that is the hunt exactly? Hunting the yellow pages for someone to take you right to an animal? If that's how you do it than great go for it. Me, I like to actually hunt it gives me actual satisfaction when I'm able to get one. I don't see how you can call being brought to an animal to shoot hunting. That's called shooting to me. I have buddies who do it, go to ranches every year down south to hunt. An when the rest of us hear their stories it's insane that they think their hunting. They get driven out to a blind where there guaranteed an animal of their choice, and they just shoot it. Just is Not for me... My opinion on the dentist clown has to do with his other charges as well not just the hunting. He was allegedly charged with sexual misconduct with a female patiant who was under the gas, and it was more than once. So yea I 100% believe he's just another scumbag...


Probably right


----------



## Fulldraw1972 (Jan 6, 2012)

One of the big reasons lions and a few other African animals are surviving is from hunting. Hunting puts a monetary value on them. By doing this poaching is reduced. Look at Kenya that hasn't had any hunting for how long now? Lion and elephant populations are still on a downward trend.


----------



## prairie lover (May 2, 2015)

if lions didn't have a monetary value cause of hunting they would be in serious trouble. the locals would just kill them off. I cannot believe people who hunt here look down and call people names who hunt in Africa and kill stuff like lions. do urself a favor and get educated on the subject. do urself another favor and buy the book "death in the long grass" by peter Hathaway capstick. the very first part of the book, which was written in the 70s, tells you why there is trophy hunting in Africa. one would think this was written a week after the whole cicil story broke. reading that book will tell u that its not just "driving out to the blind and shooting one." lions are very dangerous, kill 100s of people a year and are managed quite strictly by the governments. 

it is sickening that so called hunters will agree that lions shouldn't be hunted. this is not about lion hunting. its about all hunting.


----------



## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

Folks need to stand up for their rights while they still have a chance too.


----------



## Darrens6601 (Jul 16, 2015)

Do we still have rights I thought everything was a privilege now days..


----------



## KRONIIK (Jun 3, 2014)

Remember this:

Hunters finance CONSERVATION. 
Anti-hunters finance anti-hunting.

I'd be willing to bet that dear ol' Cecil would never have existed *at all*, if not for the money POURED into Africa over the past century by (mostly) Western and European sport HUNTERS.


----------



## H20fwler (Apr 1, 2014)

Got this off another site;

Email just came in from Zimbabwe...

Subject: Cecil the loin

Many of you have read or heard the news of the collared lion that has been shot here in Africa. Greg and I are in Zimbabwe, hunting with clients, at the camp of the very man that is being accused of "slaughtering a protected lion".

I would just like to clarify a few facts. Firstly, yes, the lion was collared but that does not mean protected the hunting concession we are on borders the park-- no fences, no gates, no wires. These animals are free to roam and cross into the areas surrounding the park at will.

It is a given that when any animal is out of the designated boundaries of the park and in a hunting concession, it is fair game. Collared animals are shot by hunters once in a while and the law states that nothing has been done illegally, just that the collar is to be returned to the National Parks office.

Secondly, this lion was not lured out of the park by guts being dragged or calls being made. There was an elephant carcass, that died of natural causes, 2 1/2 km out of the parks boundary. The Professional Hunter (PH) and his hunter had seen a lion on the carcass so set up a blind to hunt that evening. The collared lion was the one that came in. No one realized the animal was collared until after it was harvested. The collar was returned to Parks, as is the procedure.

It is unfortunate that this lion is a frequently photographed one in the parks as I believe that is why it has made national news. That, and the fact that it has a name..... Cecil.

Theo Bronkhorst has been threatened and dragged over the coals on this one. His family is being harassed and the Facebook comments have been horrendous. Our own fb page has had a few. One in particular. "let me guess...this fed a village". Here's where I'd like to explain something. Feeding the village is a phrase that is always taken in the literal sense. Yes, the meat of any animal is shared with the people but it's more than that. Here's how it works. Every hunting concession has a native game scout appointed. This scout must accompany the PH and his hunters to be sure that nothing is shot that is not on quota.....quota meaning that only so many of one species can be taken during the year. This is recorded very officially in a ledger. Every animal has a trophy fee. This is divided up to the outfitter, the village and the government. The village gets their share of the meat.

Now this is where Theo makes a difference. With the money, he has helped the people dig wells, pipe water and supplied tanks to their houses so they don't have to walk long distances to carry it. They have larger gardens now because of it, not to mention running water. He has built schools. He's helped put in solar panels so they have power. I have seen satellite dishes on some homes so I know they have tv. It is all this that is included in the phrase ' feed the village'.

I believe so many people do not understand hunting. They only see killing. Without hunting there is no conservation. Theo and his family are conservationists. They are not poachers. Everything done in the taking of this lion was done with professionalism.

The hunter was legally licensed, the outfitter/PH, Theo, was licensed to legally hunt in that area. The lion had a GPS collar and if anyone is to blame, it should be the authorities who's job was to track him. It is disgusting to me how there is so much to-do about this one lion but nothing is said about the man who was killed just 2 nights ago by an elephant in the village of the scout who rides in the truck with us everyday. A human life was taken and it is not mentioned. We should be more concerned about Masugo and his family than Cecil. It is unfair that no one feels sorry for Masugo....nor for the hunter and PH that have been falsely accused of a crime they did not commit.

Please share this with as many people as you can so the real story also gets revealed. It surprises us that organizations like Dallas Club and Safari Club International (SCI), who's slogan is 'first for hunters', have not become involved to investigate and stand behind a fellow hunter. Let us all, as hunters, stand together.

~Debby & the Ndn


----------



## Darrens6601 (Jul 16, 2015)

H20fwler said:


> Got this off another site;
> 
> Email just came in from Zimbabwe...
> 
> ...


Good stuff thanks for sharing ..


----------



## KS Bow Hunter (Nov 22, 2013)

[email protected] said:


> I've read enough of your posts to call BS on that. You made it perfectly clear from the beginning that your conclusion was that the hunt/kill was illegal, and the guy was a poacher that should be punished.


The hunt has in fact been deemed illegal, as the lion was taken on a property without the proper permits or quotas, which is, illegal by definition. That is irrefutable at this point. What we don't know but I suspect is that the guy has some culpability. Why? Because a leopard doesn't change it's spots...

I could be wrong. If I am, and he is exonerated, I'll be the first to post on here that I was wrong. But if I'm right...


----------



## Bulldog2nine (Jul 11, 2015)

KS Bow Hunter said:


> The hunt has in fact been deemed illegal, as the lion was taken on a property without the proper permits or quotas, which is, illegal by definition. That is irrefutable at this point. What we don't know but I suspect is that the guy has some culpability. Why? Because a leopard doesn't change it's spots...
> 
> I could be wrong. If I am, and he is exonerated, I'll be the first to post on here that I was wrong. But if I'm right...


I don't think we'll ever get the real facts at this point. Too many people have too many emotional interests involved.


----------



## KS Bow Hunter (Nov 22, 2013)

Bulldog2nine said:


> I don't think we'll ever get the real facts at this point. Too many people have too many emotional interests involved.


That's true...honestly, the whole thing is such an emotionally charged mess in a corrupt country that we'll likely never know what happened.

Ultimately, the real losers here are law abiding hunters and the people of Zimbabwe who are involved in the business...

While I'd personally never pay to kill a lion over bait, I understand how important it is to protecting the lions as they have a real value.

The overreaction of the world is just that...


----------



## Billie (Jul 1, 2004)

KS Bow Hunter said:


> The hunt has in fact been deemed illegal, as the lion was taken on a property without the proper permits or quotas, which is, illegal by definition. That is irrefutable at this point. What we don't know but I suspect is that the guy has some culpability. Why? Because a leopard doesn't change it's spots...
> 
> I could be wrong. If I am, and he is exonerated, I'll be the first to post on here that I was wrong. But if I'm right...


Then you can be all smug knowing you called a man guilty before you had any facts to justify your self righteous finger pointing.


----------



## KS Bow Hunter (Nov 22, 2013)

Billie said:


> Then you can be all smug knowing you called a man guilty before you had any facts to justify your self righteous finger pointing.


Billie. Just stop it. It makes you look stupid. This entire story was broken when the land owner tried to ship the cape back and didn't have the proper permits to do that. That makes the hunt illegal, just like killing a duck without a federal duck stamp.

The hunter, besides having some seriously frightening white teeth, has a track record of not playing by the rules.

And like I said, I could be wrong.

Now go do something productive or provide some facts...because I have an opinion that is my own, based on my own thoughts, that doesn't agree with you I'm self righteous? Hardly...


----------



## bucco921 (Jan 2, 2012)

So this thread is quite the messterpiece..... For the record I am not defending nor attacking the dentist because I really don't have a clue what the FACTS are in this case.
I do however find it quite disturbing how the "big picture" is lost on so many of you. 
Do some of you realize how dangerously similar you sound to the PETA and HSUS???? 

Prairie Lover was spot on with:
"it is sickening that so called hunters will agree that lions shouldn't be hunted. this is not about lion hunting. its about all hunting."

This has zero to do with some dumb ***** lion that nobody ever heard of until the media told you that you should be outraged over it, it's about slowly but surely stripping away your rights as a hunter. If the dentist did anything wrong I'm fine with, and support, legal punishment but the ignorance of some of the posters in this thread is mind boggling. Trust me, PETA, HSUS, and whatever the Zimbabwe group goes by are thrilled that this lion is dead, it gave them a world wide platform to spread their garbage propaganda and gained them tons of new supporters who "want to be a part of something" because the media and social media tells the sheeple to be offended.


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 17, 2005)

KS Bow Hunter said:


> The hunt has in fact been deemed illegal, as the lion was taken on a property without the proper permits or quotas, which is, illegal by definition. That is irrefutable at this point. What we don't know but I suspect is that the guy has some culpability. Why? Because a leopard doesn't change it's spots...
> 
> I could be wrong. If I am, and he is exonerated, I'll be the first to post on here that I was wrong. But if I'm right...


So, now you are back to absolutely illegal? OK.


----------



## Billie (Jul 1, 2004)

You dont have a clue what your talking about, you continue to insist this man is guilty, although the only reports you believe are the same ones that have been proven to be made up lies. And you wouldn't even have known how the story broke if I hadn't of posted it here. That was me that set that little fact straight about the CITES paperwork about the taxidermy shipment. You could have found it, but you could t be bothered to look for the truth. As for it being anything like killing a duck without a duck stamp, that just shows your lack of understanding of the law regarding hunting in ZIM. If you want to use that stupid analogy, it would be similar to you hunting with someone in their blind and on their property, you have your state and federal license and kill your limit. then a week later, some antihunting group trashes you for poaching ducks. The guy you hunted with don't have HIS duck stamp, so you get blamed for it. 
Past history aside, he had his license and permits to kill a lion in ZIM. The government had verified that. And there's your facts for you. I've posted facts here a dozen times. You haven't. You just repeat the same misinformation, or just express your dislike of hunting methods you don't approve of. Your self righteousness has Nothing to do with your difference of opinion from mine. It comes from your lack of any fairness to a man you judge as guilty from the first biased media report. You've made that clear from the start. Like you said, you could be wrong. Now go and do something productive. Research and find your own facts.


----------



## COArrow (Nov 24, 2013)

I guess if he is not guilty all he has to do is show up for his day in court;-)


----------



## JWaltrip (Dec 30, 2006)

zap said:


> Poor Cecil was killed by an American bowhunter in Zimbabwe....the hunter is a dentist, now he had to close his office due to the bad press.


:thumbs_up:set1_applaud: He should do a little time in jail and no hunting for life.


----------



## KS Bow Hunter (Nov 22, 2013)

[email protected] said:


> So, now you are back to absolutely illegal? OK.


Negative


----------



## heelerdog (Nov 5, 2005)

I wrestled with chiming in on this one. Cecil the lion is a diversion tactic to take our eyes of the truly troubling things that have happened recently. Things that should make our collective blood boil with rage and take action against those that allowed, or even actively participated in their occurrence. Things like at a minimum hundreds of National Security e-mails on a private server, five servicemen killed on American soil, considering charging one of our warriors with a crime for taking action that day, their Commander in Chief refusing to call it the terrorist act that it was, arranging a deal to GIVE ONE OF OUR* ENEMIES *NUCLEAR CAPABILITIES, that deal causing a glut in the oil market to crush our domestic oil production, Benghazi (how in God's name does that slide?), the U.S. welfare system, Planned Parenthood, and the list could go on and on. As I glossed over the 33 pages of this I noticed early on the question of abortion came up. That is not the fight the fight is the sale of body parts of the fetuses, similar to an auction. It is ludicrous. Have we all deteriorated so far that are attention spans are that short? We, all of us, have allowed this to happen. We tolerate the lies being force fed, we tolerate the media with their agenda subject change of "but look over here". Until we as a society rise up and say enough it will just continue. Every day, *EVERY DAMN DAY*, our freedoms are eroded, and we allow it to happen. *THAT* should be the subject of a 33 page discussion. Not some lion and some dentist. All things being equal how could you give a **** about that?


----------



## da white shoe (Mar 10, 2009)

Cold Weather said:


> I agree. I think someone who wants to kill animals like lions mentally deranged. There's just no sense to it.


You must really want African lions to be totally eradicated then.
Or, more likely... you just have no idea what the African situation is.
Put the video games away and read once in a while.


----------



## da white shoe (Mar 10, 2009)

Ptoid said:


> Theodore Roosevelt: "yeah @$$&&"@! You Ptoid! Hold on theres how many lions left? Jeez"


Teddy wouldn't say that. At least the second part.
In a lot of Africa, the lion population is very healthy.
Just not so good where their habitat is eroding... or, where they've banned hunting them. Read a book... please. I beg you.


----------



## da white shoe (Mar 10, 2009)

2wheels1love said:


> An opinion is an opinion, your not required to share mine. That's what the letters IMO mean. And IMO having someone bring you to an animal so you can shoot it isn't hunting. What part of that is the hunt exactly? Hunting the yellow pages for someone to take you right to an animal? If that's how you do it than great go for it. Me, I like to actually hunt it gives me actual satisfaction when I'm able to get one. I don't see how you can call being brought to an animal to shoot hunting. That's called shooting to me. I have buddies who do it, go to ranches every year down south to hunt. An when the rest of us hear their stories it's insane that they think their hunting. They get driven out to a blind where there guaranteed an animal of their choice, and they just shoot it. Just is Not for me... My opinion on the dentist clown has to do with his other charges as well not just the hunting. He was allegedly charged with sexual misconduct with a female patiant who was under the gas, and it was more than once. So yea I 100% believe he's just another scumbag...


You 100% believe. 
Not... you think... or my gut feeling is.
I've got news for you. You're 100 % wrong on a lot of things you're stating as fact.


----------



## da white shoe (Mar 10, 2009)

heelerdog said:


> I wrestled with chiming in on this one. Cecil the lion is a diversion tactic to take our eyes of the truly troubling things that have happened recently. Things that should make our collective blood boil with rage and take action against those that allowed, or even actively participated in their occurrence. Things like at a minimum hundreds of National Security e-mails on a private server, five servicemen killed on American soil, considering charging one of our warriors with a crime for taking action that day, their Commander in Chief refusing to call it the terrorist act that it was, arranging a deal to GIVE ONE OF OUR* ENEMIES *NUCLEAR CAPABILITIES, that deal causing a glut in the oil market to crush our domestic oil production, Benghazi (how in God's name does that slide?), the U.S. welfare system, Planned Parenthood, and the list could go on and on. As I glossed over the 33 pages of this I noticed early on the question of abortion came up. That is not the fight the fight is the sale of body parts of the fetuses, similar to an auction. It is ludicrous. Have we all deteriorated so far that are attention spans are that short? We, all of us, have allowed this to happen. We tolerate the lies being force fed, we tolerate the media with their agenda subject change of "but look over here". Until we as a society rise up and say enough it will just continue. Every day, *EVERY DAMN DAY*, our freedoms are eroded, and we allow it to happen. *THAT* should be the subject of a 33 page discussion. Not some lion and some dentist. All things being equal how could you give a **** about that?


Well, I care about all of it.
But, this lion story is important also.
Whether this dentist unintentionally broke the law, is a raging poacher or is completely innocent... it may not matter in the end.
The media, being who they are, have already lied enough on it to sway public opinion... some of whom are even hunters themselves... so, it may result in the passing of some very nasty and restrictive hunting regulations. Which may lead to more regulations down the road. And then, at some point, they'll end it altogether. And "it" may just be hunting whitetails with a bow next time.

I have two sons, 10 and 12. That's why it's important.
We've lost bear baiting to this same tactic in many states. 
A method that makes it possible to control harvests even in areas where spotting and stalking is impossible. Places where killing a black bear with a bow... or even a gun, would be a very low odds proposition. The ONLY method that gives the hunter a reasonable chance to identify the bears sex or be certain it isn't with cubs..

We've lost hound hunting for bear and mt lion in most states too.
Same deal. People... a lot of them hunters that had never done it in their lives, decided it was unfair somehow. 
I've done it. It's fair... ha!

Mt lion hunting is going the same route. All because of the 
fuzzy-huggable factor.
Don't even get me started on the wolf thing.

The hunters saying lion hunting should be banned in Africa or baiting is cheating, or hiring an outfitter is lazy are the same type of people that have led to ending the opportunity, tradition and livelihood that these methods represented to other hunters. 
That is WORSE than being a PETA member, in my book.


----------



## TAIL_CHASER (Dec 23, 2014)

Cecil is dead... IMO I think we need to worry about more important things.


----------



## 2wheels1love (Mar 7, 2015)

da white shoe said:


> You 100% believe.
> Not... you think... or my gut feeling is.
> I've got news for you. You're 100 % wrong on a lot of things you're stating as fact.


Can you show me which part of that is said in factual terms? Cause I'm pretty sure I couldn't have used the word opinion more if I tried. I also stated earlier that if the hunt was legal or not wasn't my issue, that IMO (again that opinion word) those types of hunts just aren't for me. I have buds that do it, I've been to a ranch to hunt yrs ago with them, and it was a good time with friends an all but I left feeling not good about the hunt. It's just not my idea of hunting. If you like to hunt like that hey go for it I don't care I'm not protesting the pay to play hunts just stating my opinion of them that's all. You don't need to justify your methods to me or anyone else but don't get all butt hurt like a 2yr old when someone has a different opinion than you... All clear on the FACT that this is only my OPINION? Cool... I'm all done with this silliness...


----------



## BigDeer (Aug 9, 2005)

2wheels1love said:


> An opinion is an opinion, your not required to share mine. That's what the letters IMO mean. And IMO having someone bring you to an animal so you can shoot it isn't hunting. What part of that is the hunt exactly? Hunting the yellow pages for someone to take you right to an animal? If that's how you do it than great go for it. Me, I like to actually hunt it gives me actual satisfaction when I'm able to get one. I don't see how you can call being brought to an animal to shoot hunting. That's called shooting to me. I have buddies who do it, go to ranches every year down south to hunt. An when the rest of us hear their stories it's insane that they think their hunting. They get driven out to a blind where there guaranteed an animal of their choice, and they just shoot it. Just is Not for me... My opinion on the dentist clown has to do with his other charges as well not just the hunting. He was allegedly charged with sexual misconduct with a female patiant who was under the gas, and it was more than once. So yea I 100% believe he's just another scumbag...


That's great, not for you, not your style and you don't deem that hunting. Copy.

I don't care if the dentist isn't an angel, could be my dad or your dad or anyone. If he did something illegal that warrants action, then so be it. But I'm standing up for legal hunting, which was the premise of this hunt. Seems from sources from one side or another, that was the case, they thought they were legal at that time. Tons of hunters make mistakes with game laws, it happens. Was it done on purpose or by mistake, that seems to be the question. I honestly cannot find one source I believe isn't biased, with answers to that question.

btw, Simba..er Cecil and Jericho...here is a little perspective..

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/05/o...-dont-cry-for-lions.html?smid=tw-nytimes&_r=1



"And Americans who can’t find Zimbabwe on a map are applauding the nation’s demand for the extradition of the dentist, unaware that a baby elephant was reportedly slaughtered for our president’s most recent birthday banquet."


----------



## BigDeer (Aug 9, 2005)

according to the PH, they had a permit...

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-33787351


----------



## 2wheels1love (Mar 7, 2015)

Good article def worth the time to read it. Kinda sounds maybe made up by someone based off real stories but it sounds 100% accurate of what a local would say and experience. And again don't confuse my posts with having anything to do with lion hunting, because their not. There are a few animals here that I choose not to hunt because for some reason I have a soft spot for them. Lions Not being one of them. They are magnificent beasts and also very very deadly and dangerous. If I had them roaming around the streets where I live I'm sure I'd be more than happy to see them hunted or killed by whomever. Again good article though definitely should put the part of this being a "beloved Lion" as the media states into a better perspective for people.


----------



## Elvis_Is_Dead (Nov 25, 2009)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...-wrong-in-luring-cecil-the-lion-to-his-death/

More on Theo Bronchorst defending Palmer.
Seems like the only other possible culprits are either the Landowner, or the Zimbabwe Gov't misreporting facts.


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 17, 2005)

da white shoe said:


> Well, I care about all of it.
> But, this lion story is important also.
> Whether this dentist unintentionally broke the law, is a raging poacher or is completely innocent... it may not matter in the end.
> The media, being who they are, have already lied enough on it to sway public opinion... some of whom are even hunters themselves... so, it may result in the passing of some very nasty and restrictive hunting regulations. Which may lead to more regulations down the road. And then, at some point, they'll end it altogether. And "it" may just be hunting whitetails with a bow next time.
> ...


Good post. Similar points that I have tried to make. I especially like the the last couple sentences. Unfortunately, way too large of a portion of the hunting community has proven to be either too hardheaded or simply not intelligent enough to truly understand it. I'd like to think it's hardheaded, but let's face it, when you have a hunter posting that anyone that lion hunts is mentally deranged...

In a society where so many people will believe anything they read or watch (ie - baby parts for sale) and one in which public demand and outcry has caused Gov't officials to act on their own. Facts and truth matter not. Now, right before our eyes we see a thug like Mike Brown be memorialized, a southern traditional symbol erased, forcing a health care system on every citizen...anyone that thinks hunting is untouchable are fooling themselves.


----------



## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

Robin, you forgot to mention that the cop involved in the brown shooting cannot find another job (they tell him he is unemployable because of the incident). And browns buddy who came up with the "handup" bullchit was given a good job by St Louis. and never prosecuted.


----------



## Billie (Jul 1, 2004)

2wheels1love said:


> An opinion is an opinion, your not required to share mine. That's what the letters IMO mean. And IMO having someone bring you to an animal so you can shoot it isn't hunting. What part of that is the hunt exactly? Hunting the yellow pages for someone to take you right to an animal? If that's how you do it than great go for it. Me, I like to actually hunt it gives me actual satisfaction when I'm able to get one. I don't see how you can call being brought to an animal to shoot hunting. That's called shooting to me. I have buddies who do it, go to ranches every year down south to hunt. An when the rest of us hear their stories it's insane that they think their hunting. They get driven out to a blind where there guaranteed an animal of their choice, and they just shoot it. Just is Not for me... My opinion on the dentist clown has to do with his other charges as well not just the hunting. He was allegedly charged with sexual misconduct with a female patiant who was under the gas, and it was more than once. So yea I 100% believe he's just another scumbag...


There is no correlation to hunting a lion in ZIM. With shooting exotics under a feeder in Texas, which I'm assuming your referring to by saying "down south". There is no guarantee you will even see a lion, and if you do, if it's not a mature male, you can't kill it in ZIM. The average on sighting is less than 40%, and actually killing one is less than 20%. And you don't get a refund. These hunts are for 14 to 18 days. It's not a "penned shoot". You also are repeating lies again, that have been pointed out here before, regarding his past violations and harassment suit. Do you really think if he had "sexual misconduct more than once" he wouldn't be in jail? Or lose a license? The harassment suit was based on his telling an Employee, not a patient, she was beautiful, and he commented on her breasts, because she had talked of an enhancement. He settled with her, she got 150,000, so I'm sure she felt less violated. So you are 100% in your belief he is a scum bag just because you want him to be. You have formed this opinion because for some reason known only to you, you want it to be true. Not because any fact proves it.


----------



## Elvis_Is_Dead (Nov 25, 2009)

zap said:


> Robin, you forgot to mention that the cop involved in the brown shooting cannot find another job (they tell him he is unemployable because of the incident). And browns buddy who came up with the "handup" bullchit was given a good job by St Louis. and never prosecuted.


Pretty sad.

BTW... nice Avatar/Flag


----------



## 2wheels1love (Mar 7, 2015)

Billie said:


> There is no correlation to hunting a lion in ZIM. With shooting exotics under a feeder in Texas, which I'm assuming your referring to by saying "down south". There is no guarantee you will even see a lion, and if you do, if it's not a mature male, you can't kill it in ZIM. The average on sighting is less than 40%, and actually killing one is less than 20%. And you don't get a refund. These hunts are for 14 to 18 days. It's not a "penned shoot". You also are repeating lies again, that have been pointed out here before, regarding his past violations and harassment suit. Do you really think if he had "sexual misconduct more than once" he wouldn't be in jail? Or lose a license? The harassment suit was based on his telling an Employee, not a patient, she was beautiful, and he commented on her breasts, because she had talked of an enhancement. He settled with her, she got 150,000, so I'm sure she felt less violated. So you are 100% in your belief he is a scum bag just because you want him to be. You have formed this opinion because for some reason known only to you, you want it to be true. Not because any fact proves it.


Like Ive stated a few times now, me thinking he's a scumbag and refusing to defend someone like him has not to do with him hunting a lion. And if you wanna talk about facts than maybe look up the court Docs on his "one time harmless comments" sexual misconduct case. Because it was way more than a casual comment on her looks. It was an ongoing thing that was told to others as well to try an get this guy to stop, and he wouldn't. And went as far as while he was performing a procedure he went hands on. So yea a guy who does that in my book is a total and complete 100% scumbag. You choose to defend someone who does this than be my guest. IMO that's making you look bad, not me.... Court documents are public record feel free to look at it if you so choose since you seem to like this clown so much... To me people of his character are only bad for the rest of us hunters. I know I don't wanna be associated with guys who do those things to women, that's somebodies mom sister or daughter thats how I see it. You choose to be ok with it, that's your problem not mine. So maybe instead of trying to crucify me for having an opinion on somebody who does things I don't approve of, look into the person your defending an see if that's really the kind of man you want to back...


----------



## ghostgoblin22 (May 3, 2013)

zap said:


> Robin, you forgot to mention that the cop involved in the brown shooting cannot find another job (they tell him he is unemployable because of the incident). And browns buddy who came up with the "handup" bullchit was given a good job by St Louis. and never prosecuted.


lol, your avatar has made my day, thanks for the laugh


----------



## Elvis_Is_Dead (Nov 25, 2009)

Billie - can't use sexual misconduct argument because of Bill Cosby.


----------



## Billie (Jul 1, 2004)

2wheels1love said:


> Like Ive stated a few times now, me thinking he's a scumbag and refusing to defend someone like him has not to do with him hunting a lion. And if you wanna talk about facts than maybe look up the court Docs on his "one time harmless comments" sexual misconduct case. Because it was way more than a casual comment on her looks. It was an ongoing thing that was told to others as well to try an get this guy to stop, and he wouldn't. And went as far as while he was performing a procedure he went hands on. So yea a guy who does that in my book is a total and complete 100% scumbag. You choose to defend someone who does this than be my guest. IMO that's making you look bad, not me.... Court documents are public record feel free to look at it if you so choose since you seem to like this clown so much... To me people of his character are only bad for the rest of us hunters. I know I don't wanna be associated with guys who do those things to women, that's somebodies mom sister or daughter thats how I see it. You choose to be ok with it, that's your problem not mine. So maybe instead of trying to crucify me for having an opinion on somebody who does things I don't approve of, look into the person your defending an see if that's really the kind of man you want to back...


Well maybe you do have access to more info than I have. Please link me that public info that he was charged with "sexual misconduct". I'm curious how that happened and how the charge went away. Maybe your correct, and his 150,000 settlement to this woman was severance pay. Or maybe it wasn't important enough to her to actually bring charges to prevent him from ever doing it again to any other woman, but 150,000 helped her get over it. I wonder why the settlement was such a modest number? Surely she wanted to go public with a criminal persecution and trial. A conviction would have ensured he more money. Lots of questions...I'll base my judgement on this by my own knowledge of 3 Dr.s I've known that settled similar suits. It's cheaper to pay 150,000 than to go to court and be smeared publicly. It can drag out for years and lawyers can easily get more than that in Fees. It's cheaper to settle. That's what they do. And unless you provide those links, you can stop using this to justify your judging this case on it. As you said, you have an opinion. You've made it very clear it's based on this, and your dislike for people hunting in different ways than you do. I have an opinion also, and can express it. It's based on what happened in Africa. It's based on what actually happened as confirmed in the only report from the ZIM government, not the media, or the rantings of an environmental minister that didn't even know BOWHUNTING was legal in her own country, or an anti hunting group that had nothing to do with lion conservation in ZIM, but are quoted as the "authority" on lion hunting rules. Scum bag or not, this American was called guilty from the first day based on lies. My opinion is based on my belief that he should be judged by facts of the case, not emotional knee jerk reactions.


----------



## Billie (Jul 1, 2004)

Elvis_Is_Dead said:


> Billie - can't use sexual misconduct argument because of Bill Cosby.


Unless bill cosby lion hunted and sexually harassed his PH, sexual misconduct is irrelevant to this case. Hell, even if he DID it's STILL it relevant!


----------



## 2wheels1love (Mar 7, 2015)

Listen there fella, you are the one going off on me because I disagree with a method of hunting, forming an opinion on me because you disagree with what I think about somebody you don't even know. So don't project your misguided anger my way. My opinion on this guy is my opinion. Can't be helped it's what I feel based on what I've heard. As far as having to provide you with links or whatever else, lol yea I don't have to provide you with nada. Google is super simple give it a whirl, I did. If your so upset that I dislike someone that either one of us know, than sounds to me like you got some their stuff goin on with yourself not related to me or some random dentist. Go work it out, I didn't attack you so don't you dare attack me over something so stupid an meaningless. Wanna be an angry person? Go ahead but it ain't Gona be at my exspense. Keyboard Cowboys keybored tough guys whatever you wanna call it, I have zero interest in, I'm not some dumb teenager having an "Internet battle" it's ridiculous. You don share my opinions good for you. I dont share yours. Case closed. Go find another thread to act like a bad-ass on. Lol unbelievable...


----------



## BigDeer (Aug 9, 2005)

charges dropped after an agreement was reached

http://heavy.com/news/2015/07/walte...os-video-cubs-theo-bronchorst-trymore-ndlovu/


----------



## 2wheels1love (Mar 7, 2015)

Yes he paid her 127 thousand and some change. It's the story behind it not the fact some young girl accepted a ton of money in order to not press charges that would've cost her probably most of anything she'd have won. Out of court settlements are normal in those types of cases. Happens everyday.


----------



## Billie (Jul 1, 2004)

2wheels1love said:


> Listen there fella, you are the one going off on me because I disagree with a method of hunting, forming an opinion on me because you disagree with what I think about somebody you don't even know. So don't project your misguided anger my way. My opinion on this guy is my opinion. Can't be helped it's what I feel based on what I've heard. As far as having to provide you with links or whatever else, lol yea I don't have to provide you with nada. Google is super simple give it a whirl, I did. If your so upset that I dislike someone that either one of us know, than sounds to me like you got some their stuff goin on with yourself not related to me or some random dentist. Go work it out, I didn't attack you so don't you dare attack me over something so stupid an meaningless. Wanna be an angry person? Go ahead but it ain't Gona be at my exspense. Keyboard Cowboys keybored tough guys whatever you wanna call it, I have zero interest in, I'm not some dumb teenager having an "Internet battle" it's ridiculous. You don share my opinions good for you. I dont share yours. Case closed. Go find another thread to act like a bad-ass on. Lol unbelievable...


My, my. Someone got his feeling hurt because he feels he was "judged" unfairly... So how does it feel? You don't seem to have a problem doing it to someone else, though, right? But it's just an opinion, so why are you upset? 
You say you base YOUR opinion on what you heard. Well, there has been a LOT of info posted about this that you apparently ignore, because it doesn't follow your belief. When it's pointed out to you, it becomes a "personal attack".when you bring up your "facts" with no proof, and I ask you for proof, you say I'm asking for "something stupid and meaningless", because you have no proof. The truth is, you haven't been attacked. You say things here, you will get a response. You say things that are lies, whether you started them or just repeat them, someone MIGHT ask you for proof. You repeat something that is incorrect, someone MIGHT respond about it. You don't get to control this forum. You can tell someone to get off the thread because you don't agree with them asking you about things you say. You can, however, take your own advice and go find another thread to be a bad ass on. That not an order, so don't get all butthurt again. It's mearly an option.


----------



## OPTaylor (Dec 3, 2014)

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?st..._=top_level_post_id.1007288929311941&__tn__=C


----------



## 2wheels1love (Mar 7, 2015)

Billie said:


> My, my. Someone got his feeling hurt because he feels he was "judged" unfairly... So how does it feel? You don't seem to have a problem doing it to someone else, though, right? But it's just an opinion, so why are you upset?
> You say you base YOUR opinion on what you heard. Well, there has been a LOT of info posted about this that you apparently ignore, because it doesn't follow your belief. When it's pointed out to you, it becomes a "personal attack".when you bring up your "facts" with no proof, and I ask you for proof, you say I'm asking for "something stupid and meaningless", because you have no proof. The truth is, you haven't been attacked. You say things here, you will get a response. You say things that are lies, whether you started them or just repeat them, someone MIGHT ask you for proof. You repeat something that is incorrect, someone MIGHT respond about it. You don't get to control this forum. You can tell someone to get off the thread because you don't agree with them asking you about things you say. You can, however, take your own advice and go find another thread to be a bad ass on. That not an order, so don't get all butthurt again. It's mearly an option.


Lol oh boy.. Yes your right on all accounts. This is truly like arguing with my 10yr old. And I forget Reading comprehension isnt everybody's strong point. My bad I appolagize. Feel better? Great, fantastic. I should know better than to get involved with the keybored cowboy posters. For that I take full responsibility Lol..


----------



## 2wheels1love (Mar 7, 2015)

It's easy to miss words like "my opinion" and the word "allegedly" that was posted before the words "sexual misconduct". But like I said reading comprehension isn't for everyone...


----------



## KS Bow Hunter (Nov 22, 2013)

2wheels1love said:


> listen there fella, you are the one going off on me because i disagree with a method of hunting, forming an opinion on me because you disagree with what i think about somebody you don't even know. So don't project your misguided anger my way. My opinion on this guy is my opinion. Can't be helped it's what i feel based on what i've heard. As far as having to provide you with links or whatever else, lol yea i don't have to provide you with nada. Google is super simple give it a whirl, i did. If your so upset that i dislike someone that either one of us know, than sounds to me like you got some their stuff goin on with yourself not related to me or some random dentist. Go work it out, i didn't attack you so don't you dare attack me over something so stupid an meaningless. Wanna be an angry person? Go ahead but it ain't gona be at my exspense. Keyboard cowboys keybored tough guys whatever you wanna call it, i have zero interest in, i'm not some dumb teenager having an "internet battle" it's ridiculous. You don share my opinions good for you. I dont share yours. Case closed. Go find another thread to act like a bad-ass on. Lol unbelievable...


rofl


----------



## George Charles (Oct 18, 2012)

I have been reading some of these threads & have to say you guys need help Really!! I will go as far as saying some need MENTAL help. To call yourselves hunters is a disgrace. I bet half of the guys posting here (28 pages & counting) have never discussed a serious family matter this much. Think I'm blowing smoke- just go back & reread some of your own posts. I wouldn't be surprised if the FEDS don't screen some of these posts & run background checks knowing these people have access to guns.


----------



## KS Bow Hunter (Nov 22, 2013)

George Charles said:


> I have been reading some of these threads & have to say you guys need help Really!! I will go as far as saying some need MENTAL help. To call yourselves hunters is a disgrace. I bet half of the guys posting here (28 pages & counting) have never discussed a serious family matter this much. Think I'm blowing smoke- just go back & reread some of your own posts. I wouldn't be surprised if the FEDS don't screen some of these posts & run background checks knowing these people have access to guns.


That's awesome...


----------



## KS Bow Hunter (Nov 22, 2013)

I posted this a while back. Thought this might be appropriate given the attention paid to Cecil and the dentist with the scary white teeth..

When will we start having the right conversations about our country?

Every time I turn around I hear about the confederate flag, firearms, Cecil the Lion, or gay marriage...and while I'm happy for those that care about these issues, it concerns me that as a nation we have a lack of focus, and maybe even awareness, about the some of the real structural problems in our country...things like:

- 16% of the US lives in poverty, our highest level since 1993...and getting worse...

- 49.1 millions Americans live in food insecure households...and deteriorating...

- Income inequality is at its highest since the Great Depression in America, gradually getting worse, and some predict it is becoming permanent...

- The US ranks in the bottom 1/3rd of nations in income inequality...70% of countries have more equality than the US does with respect to income... 

- The national debt as a percentage of GDP is at is highest since WWII, and mandatory spending will outstrip government revenues sometime between 2030 and 2040...the national debt will reach almost $19 trillion USD by the end of 2015...

- While unemployment is relatively low, and has gradually improved since the Great Recession, we have less purchasing power now as median incomes in the US are hovering around 1995 levels...20 years later...

- There are 12 million single parent families in America, and 4 out of 10 kids born are to unwed mothers...

- The US has the highest incarceration rate per capita of any country in the entire world, more than China or Russia...

- America's own engineers give it a grade of D+ on the current state of it's infrastructure, with $3.2 trillion USD needed by 2020...

We seem to focus on things that make us feel good, or that we can legislate, rather than focusing on the structural issues facing us...the confederate flag, firearms, Cecil, gay marriage...these things don't concern me, as they are distractions masking the real issues in our country today...

These are all publicly available stats that anyone can find and research, and while they may not all be from the exact same timeframe, they add up to a significant and growing problem in America...

These are the things that I contemplate...


----------



## Fulldraw1972 (Jan 6, 2012)

George Charles said:


> I have been reading some of these threads & have to say you guys need help Really!! I will go as far as saying some need MENTAL help. To call yourselves hunters is a disgrace. I bet half of the guys posting here (28 pages & counting) have never discussed a serious family matter this much. Think I'm blowing smoke- just go back & reread some of your own posts. I wouldn't be surprised if the FEDS don't screen some of these posts & run background checks knowing these people have access to guns.


Then why are you on a hunting forum with 467 posts?


----------



## KS Bow Hunter (Nov 22, 2013)

Fulldraw1972 said:


> Then why are you on a hunting forum with 467 posts?


I'm guessing because he likes to bow hunt? Just spit balling...


----------



## BigDeer (Aug 9, 2005)

KS Bow Hunter said:


> I posted this a while back. Thought this might be appropriate given the attention paid to Cecil and the dentist with the scary white teeth..,
> 
> When will we start having the right conversations about our country?
> 
> ...


"That's awesome..."

Start a thread about those topics then, in a non hunting forum. This is about the lion and the dentist that didn't have the correct permits and illegally hunted as you stated earlier.

But his guide says they did have the correct permits, just came out today fyi.

edit - Those are great discussion topics you listed.


----------



## George Charles (Oct 18, 2012)

Just doing my job.


Fulldraw1972 said:


> Then why are you on a hunting forum with 467 posts?


----------



## Fulldraw1972 (Jan 6, 2012)

KS Bow Hunter said:


> I'm guessing because he likes to bow hunt? Just spit balling...


No kidding Einstein you don't say


----------



## Fulldraw1972 (Jan 6, 2012)

KS Bow Hunter said:


> I posted this a while back. Thought this might be appropriate given the attention paid to Cecil and the dentist with the scary white teeth..
> 
> When will we start having the right conversations about our country?
> 
> ...


And why are you on a bowhunting forum discussing cecil and the dentist instead of a forum about our nation's problems?

For the record I agree with you on the issues need to be resolved.


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 17, 2005)

zap said:


> Robin, you forgot to mention that the cop involved in the brown shooting cannot find another job (they tell him he is unemployable because of the incident). And browns buddy who came up with the "handup" bullchit was given a good job by St Louis. and never prosecuted.


And...this upcoming weekend they (Brown supporters) are planning a "weekend of disobedience". Parts of StL will be looted, businesses destroyed, and people will get hurt and killed...because "Mike Brown didn't deserve to die." It's a great world we live in these days. It's awesome for this chit to be happening right in front of me, and to have personal friends putting their lives on the line as police up front.


----------



## BigDeer (Aug 9, 2005)

[email protected] said:


> And...this upcoming weekend they (Brown supporters) are planning a "weekend of disobedience". Parts of StL will be looted, businesses destroyed, and people will get hurt and killed...because "Mike Brown didn't deserve to die." It's a great world we live in these days. It's awesome for this chit to be happening right in front of me, and to have personal friends putting their lives on the line as police up front.


we call that 'Lincoln University Homecoming"


----------



## Early Ice (Mar 18, 2008)

I have my opinions on rich people that pay big money to kill stuff. Like thumping an elephant in the head with 6 oz lead at 50 yards.....what is the sport in that? With that being said, it's stupid azz efin Lion. who really cares. No one gives a chit when 100k whitetail get killed by cars each year or people slam an arrow in the azz of a deer and it's running around like that for weeks. It's a Lion, there will be more. it's what nature does, it's cyclical. 

It's the media's fault, the media reports on everything they can get their meat hooks on. They prefer the negative too. when have you turned on the TV and heard about the family's that helped out at the wounded warrior project taking the vets fishing? No, you heard about the drug house busted or some ******* beat his wife with a baseball bat. THis world sucks.


----------



## 2wheels1love (Mar 7, 2015)

Early Ice said:


> I have my opinions on rich people that pay big money to kill stuff. Like thumping an elephant in the head with 6 oz lead at 50 yards.....what is the sport in that? With that being said, it's stupid azz efin Lion. who really cares. No one gives a chit when 100k whitetail get killed by cars each year or people slam an arrow in the azz of a deer and it's running around like that for weeks. It's a Lion, there will be more. it's what nature does, it's cyclical.
> 
> It's the media's fault, the media reports on everything they can get their meat hooks on. They prefer the negative too. when have you turned on the TV and heard about the family's that helped out at the wounded warrior project taking the vets fishing? No, you heard about the drug house busted or some ******* beat his wife with a baseball bat. THis world sucks.


Please for your own sake don't comment that that's not a proper way to hunt. It will offend many!


----------



## KS Bow Hunter (Nov 22, 2013)

Fulldraw1972 said:


> And why are you on a bowhunting forum discussing cecil and the dentist instead of a forum about our nation's problems?
> 
> For the record I agree with you on the issues need to be resolved.


I like to bow hunt, I've known of Cecil for quite a while, so I chimed in earlier...several folks said that we should worry about more important things so I posted this from another forum...felt appropriate. We can go back to debating he guilt of the involved parties now... 

My bad.


----------



## KS Bow Hunter (Nov 22, 2013)

Fulldraw1972 said:


> No kidding Einstein you don't say


I'm here all week...


----------



## KS Bow Hunter (Nov 22, 2013)

BigDeer said:


> "That's awesome..."
> 
> Start a thread about those topics then, in a non hunting forum. This is about the lion and the dentist that didn't have the correct permits and illegally hunted as you stated earlier.
> 
> ...


Yeah who really knows. I've read so many conflicting reports.


----------



## Billie (Jul 1, 2004)

2wheels1love said:


> Lol oh boy.. Yes your right on all accounts. This is truly like arguing with my 10yr old. And I forget Reading comprehension isnt everybody's strong point. My bad I appolagize. Feel better? Great, fantastic. I should know better than to get involved with the keybored cowboy posters. For that I take full responsibility Lol..


It takes a big man to admit he's wrong on a forum.


----------



## Billie (Jul 1, 2004)

2wheels1love said:


> It's easy to miss words like "my opinion" and the word "allegedly" that was posted before the words "sexual misconduct". But like I said reading comprehension isn't for everyone...


You've proved that more than once.


----------



## 2wheels1love (Mar 7, 2015)

KS Bow Hunter said:


> I like to bow hunt, I've known of Cecil for quite a while, so I chimed in earlier...several folks said that we should worry about not important things so I posted this from another forum...felt appropriate. We can go back to debating he guilt of the involved parties now...
> 
> My bad.


I Saw your original post on the other thread when it was new. Was appropriate than and surly was today as well.


----------



## Billie (Jul 1, 2004)

KS Bow Hunter said:


> I posted this a while back. Thought this might be appropriate given the attention paid to Cecil and the dentist with the scary white teeth..
> 
> When will we start having the right conversations about our country?
> 
> ...


I couldn't agree more. Yet this country has people carrying signs and calling for the death of an American that killed a lion. And they could care less if it's legal or not.


----------



## 2wheels1love (Mar 7, 2015)

Billie said:


> You've proved that more than once.


You can keep goin all day long BillieBoy. I'm done with you... You've proved your position on this matter, and so have I. Not arguing with a wannabe keyboard warrior. So Have at it all youd like.


----------



## Kansas Bruisers (Dec 14, 2006)

KS Bow Hunter said:


> I posted this a while back. Thought this might be appropriate given the attention paid to Cecil and the dentist with the scary white teeth..
> 
> When will we start having the right conversations about our country?
> 
> ...


You aren't the only one concerned about these issues, they should be issues that concern everyone. But there are other issues that we are concerned about, this lion issue is one of them. This has already affected hunters now that the airlines have felt that tug on their heart strings for this lion. You might not be affected right now since you don't hunt big game in Africa, but what if the airlines don't stop there? What if our government decides drastic changes in hunting here need to be made based on the factless, emotional outcry from Americans? You can say that will never happen or that it will never affect you, but one thing can definately lead to another.


----------



## buckeyboy (Feb 6, 2007)

He poached the lion so conversation is over


----------



## TAIL_CHASER (Dec 23, 2014)

Cecil dead.... There's and active theatre shooting in Tennessee as I type this. This is the things people need to worry about. Not a dead lion... But just IMO...


----------



## KS Bow Hunter (Nov 22, 2013)

Billie said:


> I couldn't agree more. Yet this country has people carrying signs and calling for the death of an American that killed a lion. And they could care less if it's legal or not.


By definition, this is what NGOs do to further their cause. They have no regard for the truth, just the value of the media coverage associated with the claim. I have first hand experience dealing with Greenpeace on behalf of a large multinational corporation so I can attest to this. 

Everyone knows this. This was absolutely predictable and expected. Again this is what they do.

Take someone with means who can be a good target, capture them doing something illegal (it's clear that something wasn't legal even if a permit) and voila you have your social media firestorm.

This all would have been avoided IF there was no illegal act and if they had returned the collar. That was my point in the first post I made on this thread. Take an illegal act, sprinkle it with a well known animal, add a little government corruption, and voila you have yourself a global issue that the NGOs are loving. 

I don't know for sure if the dentist is guilty, but he has a track record of using his means to get what he wants, and apparently settled again today according to one poster. Perfect target. 

That was my point in the very first post though I may have worded it poorly. He knew before he left Africa that this might get ugly. It was just a matter of time. And that's all about choices. Take the collar and he corpse in, and explain the situation, pay a small fine and this isn't a thread. Try and cover it up, and let the NGOs get ahold it it and force a corrupt governed to react on the worlds stage and you have what you have. 

The sad thing is I have two young kids and this lifestyle will get harder because of asshats like the dentist (my opinion based on publicly available information) who can buy their way in and out of these situations. It leaves a bad taste in many mouths. 

So do I care about hunting a lion In this fashion? Nope. Do I understand it and believe it is good for the lion? Yep. It protects them through the value that accrues to them. Do I think that the dentist should lose everything over this? Of course not but he made some choices here that I believe he knew would end badly. I believe he thought he could use his means and get what he wanted without repercussion. That didn't work out so well this time. Ego is a bear...


----------



## KS Bow Hunter (Nov 22, 2013)

Kansas Bruisers said:


> You aren't the only one concerned about these issues, they should be issues that concern everyone. But there are other issues that we are concerned about, this lion issue is one of them. This has already affected hunters now that the airlines have felt that tug on their heart strings for this lion. You might not be affected right now since you don't hunt big game in Africa, but what if the airlines don't stop there? What if our government decides drastic changes in hunting here need to be made based on the factless, emotional outcry from Americans? You can say that will never happen or that it will never affect you, but one thing can definately lead to another.


Very true. I've already sent my thoughts to Delta.


----------



## rodney482 (Aug 31, 2004)

buckeyboy said:


> He poached the lion so conversation is over


I did not realize they found him guilty?


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 17, 2005)

KS Bow Hunter said:


> By definition, this is what NGOs do to further their cause. They have no regard for the truth, just the value of the media coverage associated with the claim. I have first hand experience dealing with Greenpeace on behalf of a large multinational corporation so I can attest to this.
> 
> Everyone knows this. This was absolutely predictable and expected. Again this is what they do.
> 
> ...


What makes it clear to you that something was illegal? I saw an interview today in which the PH says completely different and that every aspect of the hunt was legal and legit. 

What makes you so sure the collar was destroyed? Again...I have read sources that say the collar was returned and in working condition.

Those are just two examples of many things you state as fact concerning the kill and the "asshat" in which I have taken in conflicting info. But somehow, you are pretty certain your sources of info must be correct and factual.


----------



## palmatedbuck04 (Nov 26, 2006)

rodney482 said:


> I did not realize they found him guilty?


Go on FB theres pictures of him swinging from a tree with a long neck


----------



## BigDeer (Aug 9, 2005)

KS Bow Hunter said:


> By definition, this is what NGOs do to further their cause. They have no regard for the truth, just the value of the media coverage associated with the claim. I have first hand experience dealing with Greenpeace on behalf of a large multinational corporation so I can attest to this.
> 
> Everyone knows this. This was absolutely predictable and expected. Again this is what they do.
> 
> ...


Guess with all the reports from both sides....seems conflicting. You state "it's clear that something wasn't legal even if a permit"

What exactly wasn't legal, if it's that clear?

edit...See Robin's post above mine.

"That was my point in the very first post though I may have worded it poorly. He knew before he left Africa that this might get ugly. It was just a matter of time. And that's all about choices. Take the collar and he corpse in, and explain the situation, pay a small fine and this isn't a thread. Try and cover it up, and let the NGOs get ahold it it and force a corrupt governed to react on the worlds stage and you have what you have. "

You know the guy, he told you this? You seem to have it figured out, like the crazy media....


----------



## BigDeer (Aug 9, 2005)

KS Bow Hunter said:


> By definition, this is what NGOs do to further their cause. They have no regard for the truth, just the value of the media coverage associated with the claim. I have first hand experience dealing with Greenpeace on behalf of a large multinational corporation so I can attest to this.
> 
> Everyone knows this. This was absolutely predictable and expected. Again this is what they do.
> 
> ...





KS Bow Hunter said:


> Yeah who really knows. I've read so many conflicting reports.


you answered my previous post with your conflicting posts


----------



## COArrow (Nov 24, 2013)

If the guy is innocent why doesn't he turn himself in the like the other 2 people he was with?


----------



## BigDeer (Aug 9, 2005)

Turn himself in for...?


----------



## 2wheels1love (Mar 7, 2015)

I've realized some of you are just here to find people to argue with, for whatever reason. But realize this isn't the guy to be backing for the save our hunting rights right. Same as Mike Brown was the wrong person to back for the equal treatment by police movement that's happening. You wanna stand up for hunters right that's great I'll stand right next to you. But not over this guy, back this guy up and you look foolish he's not the one. His history leads me to believe he's just not a decent person, Hunter or not. Not everyone who hunts is a good person there are some that just happen to enjoy hunting while also being dirtbags in life. Right or wrong he seems this way to me an others but what he's done past and present. A coincidence or mistake happens to everyone no doubt but not 3 (oops my bad I didn't know). Between the 2 questionable hunts and the sexual harassment. How many innocent people do you know who've had multiple "just bad luck" situations happen to them? Prob none. Most who are accused of things time and time again are Quilty and who just just keep getting away with it because of their means or whatever. So just think about that before arguing for this guy....


----------



## rattlinman (Dec 30, 2004)

Billie said:


> I couldn't agree more. Yet this country has people carrying signs and calling for the death of an American that killed a lion. And they could care less if it's legal or not.


Billie just hit the problem right on the head folks. Regardless if he's guilty or not guilty, the people using this to attack your right to hunt have already began winning the fight in their favor. Two major airlines have decided to make it impossible for you to get ANY trophy flown in...legal or not.

You all scream about legality, they just scream ban all hunting. They are winning...and they appreciate your help. :wink:


----------



## Billie (Jul 1, 2004)

2wheels1love said:


> You can keep goin all day long BillieBoy. I'm done with you... You've proved your position on this matter, and so have I. Not arguing with a wannabe keyboard warrior. So Have at it all youd like.


Yet here you are...


----------



## Kansas Bruisers (Dec 14, 2006)

2wheels1love said:


> I've realized some of you are just here to find people to argue with, for whatever reason. But realize this isn't the guy to be backing for the save our hunting rights right. Same as Mike Brown was the wrong person to back for the equal treatment by police movement that's happening. You wanna stand up for hunters right that's great I'll stand right next to you. But not over this guy, back this guy up and you look foolish he's not the one. His history leads me to believe he's just not a decent person, Hunter or not. Not everyone who hunts is a good person there are some that just happen to enjoy hunting while also being dirtbags in life. Right or wrong he seems this way to me an others but what he's done past and present. A coincidence or mistake happens to everyone no doubt but not 3 (oops my bad I didn't know). Between the 2 questionable hunts and the sexual harassment. How many innocent people do you know who've had multiple "just bad luck" situations happen to them? Prob none. Most who are accused of things time and time again are Quilty and who just just keep getting away with it because of their means or whatever. So just think about that before arguing for this guy....


You are missing the bigger picture.This is just a foot in the door, the end game for the people judging Palmer before he was ever charged with a crime want to stop all forms of hunting everywhere, including where you hunt. I don't hear anyone saying they want Palmer to be the poster boy for hunting. In fact, most have made it clear he should be punished if found guilty of knowingly hunting illegally.


----------



## 2wheels1love (Mar 7, 2015)

Billie said:


> Yet here you are...


Your actually right this time. You are hopeless and can't see the big picture. Keep defending this guy, it'll surly help hunting in the future to associate with him. Make everyone think hunters back people like this, good call bud keep up the good fight your doing great...


----------



## Billie (Jul 1, 2004)

COArrow said:


> If the guy is innocent why doesn't he turn himself in the like the other 2 people he was with?


Just fly back to ZIM and throw yourself on the mercy of the most murderous and corrupt government in Southern Africa? Yeah. That would be just what he needs to do. He HAS contacted our state dept and asked to be allowed to cooperate. He's being interviewed by our USFWS. Up to this point, he has NOT been charged with any crime, so there is no extradition in process. He has offered to cooperate, and so far, the ZIM government has NOT made any requests or effort to speak to him. The only ZIM official that wants him extradited is the environmental minister who didn't even know bowhunting was legal in her own country. What else do you want him to do?


----------



## buckeyboy (Feb 6, 2007)

rodney482 said:


> I did not realize they found him guilty?


They have to find him first. And he will be found guilty wanna bet.


----------



## COArrow (Nov 24, 2013)

Billie said:


> Just fly back to ZIM and throw yourself on the mercy of the most murderous and corrupt government in Southern Africa? Yeah. That would be just what he needs to do. He HAS contacted our state dept and asked to be allowed to cooperate. He's being interviewed by our USFWS. Up to this point, he has NOT been charged with any crime, so there is no extradition in process. He has offered to cooperate, and so far, the ZIM government has NOT made any requests or effort to speak to him. The only ZIM official that wants him extradited is the environmental minister who didn't even know bowhunting was legal in her own country. What else do you want him to do?


It seems the other 2 people he was with that were arrested are alive and able to speak, even tell their side. We have a bi-lateral treaty with Zimbabwe as well. If it is such a crazy murderess place whey are his partners in crime free on bail currently and able to speak their side?


----------



## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

Getting some folks to see the facts of this situation is like pulling teeth.....:cocktail:


----------



## KS Bow Hunter (Nov 22, 2013)

[email protected] said:


> What makes it clear to you that something was illegal? I saw an interview today in which the PH says completely different and that every aspect of the hunt was legal and legit.
> 
> What makes you so sure the collar was destroyed? Again...I have read sources that say the collar was returned and in working condition.
> 
> Those are just two examples of many things you state as fact concerning the kill and the "asshat" in which I have taken in conflicting info. But somehow, you are pretty certain your sources of info must be correct and factual.


What makes it clear that something wasn't legal was what started this entire mess in the first place...that the land owner was unable to ship the cape due to the fact that he didn't have a permit to take a lion for the specific location...

Second, the admission by the PH that they didn't return the collar as is customary. 

All the conflicting reports are bow vs. cross bow, luring vs. an elephant carcass, etc.

Last, 2 people were arrested. Yes it is a corrupt government, but if there was nothing illegal you'd think that they would just say that so this whole mess would go away...they know it's not good for them...

What I am stating as fact, I believe, has been confirmed as in fact, fact.

If not, feel free to post any and all information you have to the contrary...


----------



## KS Bow Hunter (Nov 22, 2013)

2wheels1love said:


> I've realized some of you are just here to find people to argue with, for whatever reason. But realize this isn't the guy to be backing for the save our hunting rights right. Same as Mike Brown was the wrong person to back for the equal treatment by police movement that's happening. You wanna stand up for hunters right that's great I'll stand right next to you. But not over this guy, back this guy up and you look foolish he's not the one. His history leads me to believe he's just not a decent person, Hunter or not. Not everyone who hunts is a good person there are some that just happen to enjoy hunting while also being dirtbags in life. Right or wrong he seems this way to me an others but what he's done past and present. A coincidence or mistake happens to everyone no doubt but not 3 (oops my bad I didn't know). Between the 2 questionable hunts and the sexual harassment. How many innocent people do you know who've had multiple "just bad luck" situations happen to them? Prob none. Most who are accused of things time and time again are Quilty and who just just keep getting away with it because of their means or whatever. So just think about that before arguing for this guy....


I think you meant guilty, and I agree with your post...


----------



## KS Bow Hunter (Nov 22, 2013)

zap said:


> Getting some folks to see the facts of this situation is like pulling teeth.....:cocktail:


Zap -- what do you think the facts of this situation are?


----------



## Elvis_Is_Dead (Nov 25, 2009)

zap said:


> Getting some folks to see the facts of this situation is like pulling teeth.....:cocktail:


When you get done with them, do they look like this?


----------



## KS Bow Hunter (Nov 22, 2013)

BigDeer said:


> Guess with all the reports from both sides....seems conflicting. You state "it's clear that something wasn't legal even if a permit"
> 
> What exactly wasn't legal, if it's that clear?
> 
> ...


It's just common sense. Kill a famous lion, don't turn in the collar, post some pics on FB and you think you are going to live a nice quiet life in Mayberry?

I don't have it all figured out, because we don't know a lot of the facts, but what I do know is that the minute that arrow hit the animal and the PH and the clients made a CHOICE not to take the carcass and the collar to the authorities that this shiot show was going to happen...


----------



## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

Its impossible to "think" what a fact is.

Yup.

You can know what a fact is, but that takes having all the info available.


----------



## KS Bow Hunter (Nov 22, 2013)

zap said:


> Its impossible to "think" what a fact is.
> 
> Yup.
> 
> You can know what a fact is, but that takes having all the info available.


Nice non-answer. I'll try it in your lingo...you said folks can't "see" the facts...

What do you "see" as the facts in this situation?


----------



## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

Its probably true that a lion died.
Its probably true that a dentist killed said lion.

Its probably true that he felt no law was broken if he posted the picture on fb.

Its probably true that the rest is a story.

Its definitely true that the "animal's have the same rights as humans" crowd had an agenda ready to go while they waited for the "right" incident.

It definitely true that anyone who posts a hero pic on social media or transports a dead animal in/on a vehicle can be subject to retaliation as the precedent has been set and no one has stood by the dentists side to stop it.

Its true that I will continue to trap and hunt no matter what.

etc.


----------



## Fulldraw1972 (Jan 6, 2012)

buckeyboy said:


> They have to find him first. And he will be found guilty wanna bet.


I will take that bet. What are we betting? The PH himself has said the dentist did nothing wrong from what I have read.


----------



## Elite fanboy (Dec 11, 2011)




----------



## 2wheels1love (Mar 7, 2015)

KS Bow Hunter said:


> I think you meant guilty, and I agree with your post...


I did. Some of these fools defending this clown had me so pissed I didn't proof read lol. Unbelievable so called concerned fellow hunters wanna defend this guy. Makes no sense


----------



## BigDeer (Aug 9, 2005)

KS Bow Hunter said:


> It's just common sense. Kill a famous lion, don't turn in the collar, post some pics on FB and you think you are going to live a nice quiet life in Mayberry?
> 
> I don't have it all figured out, because we don't know a lot of the facts, but what I do know is that the minute that arrow hit the animal and the PH and the clients made a CHOICE not to take the carcass and the collar to the authorities that this shiot show was going to happen...



So what is common protocol when killing a lion? A lion with a collar?

Robin said reports say the collar was turned in I believe. 

Regardless. If he is guilty then face the music to fit the crime. My issue and others is the knee jerk reactions by many on here and in the public are ready to nail him because of a gut feeling or whatever reason. Same as the airlines knee jerk reactions to halt air traffic concerning trophys. That was fast no? Who is to say a month from now they disallow bow and gun transportation because the anti hunting movement has a foot in the door. 


Actual facts on this case would be nice.


----------



## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

///////////////////


----------



## Bullhound (Feb 5, 2004)

KS Bow Hunter said:


> It's just common sense. Kill a famous lion, don't turn in the collar, post some pics on FB and you think you are going to live a nice quiet life in Mayberry?
> 
> *I don't have it all figured out*, because we don't know a lot of the facts, but what I do know is that the minute that arrow hit the animal and the PH and the clients made a CHOICE not to take the carcass and the collar to the authorities that this shiot show was going to happen...


you sure as hell keep posting BS like it's fact. You have been outed as posting your opinion as FACT. You know this....................... You continue to try and weave a line of BS to cover your very first BS post................

have at it! You're the one looking like the south end of a north traveling horse..................


----------



## Fulldraw1972 (Jan 6, 2012)

2wheels1love said:


> I did. Some of these fools defending this clown had me so pissed I didn't proof read lol. Unbelievable so called concerned fellow hunters wanna defend this guy. Makes no sense


And your stringing him up by a rope and he hasn't had his day in court yet. It is innocent until proven guilty not the other way around. 
Calling it defending him all you want. Until he prooven guilty by a reasonable doubt he is innocent. I refuse to say he is guilty till he is found guilty.


----------



## prairie lover (May 2, 2015)

Early Ice said:


> I have my opinions on rich people that pay big money to kill stuff. Like thumping an elephant in the head with 6 oz lead at 50 yards.....what is the sport in that? With that being said, it's stupid azz efin Lion. who really cares. No one gives a chit when 100k whitetail get killed by cars each year or people slam an arrow in the azz of a deer and it's running around like that for weeks. It's a Lion, there will be more. it's what nature does, it's cyclical.
> 
> It's the media's fault, the media reports on everything they can get their meat hooks on. They prefer the negative too. when have you turned on the TV and heard about the family's that helped out at the wounded warrior project taking the vets fishing? No, you heard about the drug house busted or some ******* beat his wife with a baseball bat. THis world sucks.




please before u judge u should either try it or educate urself on the subject. just spend $25 on the book "death in the long grass" by peter capstick. a retired and since passed on ph who hunted Africa for many years. If an elephant knows u are within 50 yards it will kill u. and when hes done with, u whatevers left, the red mushy substance, will fit into an ice cream pail. its called dangerous game for a reason and some people hunt it for the danger and experience. I would.


----------



## KS Bow Hunter (Nov 22, 2013)

Bullhound said:


> you sure as hell keep posting BS like it's fact. You have been outed as posting your opinion as FACT. You know this....................... You continue to try and weave a line of BS to cover your very first BS post................
> 
> have at it! You're the one looking like the south end of a north traveling horse..................


I haven't been outed for anything, you guys are a trip. What I have posted as fact can be Googled all day long...

Feel free to use your considerable intellect and knowledge to post anything that might support, clarify, or contradict my statements...

And by the way, I did leave out, and admitted leaving out, the word allegedly in my first post. So drop it, get over, time to move on brother...


----------



## prairie lover (May 2, 2015)

the hunter said he did nothing wrong. the ph said all was legit. I have seen an email on another site (supposedly) from someone in the same hunting camp saying it was all legit. ph said they hung the color on a tree and notified the park. 

park authorities when they first got the calls about cecil the lion from our media didn't know who he was. said go talk to the lion researchers, they might know. I would not put it past a corrupt gov like zib to make a big fuss if someone pays em to do it. After all the fuss started quite a while after the lion was shot. Also a gov game scout has to with the ph to make sure all is legit. was he? do a quick search of all that has happened in tat country in the last 20 years government and economy wise and u may understand a bit more.


----------



## prairie lover (May 2, 2015)

the same guys who hunt and say there should be no lions shot or elephants, are probably the same ones who don't like hunting bear over bait or bear and cats with hounds. in my opinion same as peta. there is no shortage of lions. none of elephants, in fact they cull them all the time when they deem them over populated and haul them off to basically commercial killing plants. theres absolutely no shortage of leopards.


----------



## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

cali just banned bobcat trapping......all foothold traps have been banned in Colorado for a while.....the list is bigger than that.

The agenda comes in like a tide and before you know it all outdoorsmen will be under water.


----------



## recurveman (May 27, 2008)

30 pages of this drivel on a hunting site. OMG!!!! I have an idea how about we worry about the deer this fall. Make sure our equipment is set up and we are well practiced. How about you all make sure you have a safe and functioning full body harness for your tree stand if you ascend one.

Let the legal process take care of the dentist if he did something illegal. I said IF. We don't know. Quit falling into the social media and libtards methods of trying and convicting him or anyone for that matter until all the facts are in. What concerns me is it looks like the country is caving to social media and pressure to indict and have him extradited to stand trial when at the beginning they said it was ok. If we allow that kind of crap to happen then you can give up your hunting both abroad and at home. The antis will be following you into the woods banging pots and pans on your own property or your hunting lease or in a public forest and try your butt in social media and get off scott free due to them winning public support. I have been telling you all for years....you are either part of the solution or part of the problem. There is no gray area or middle ground here. You support all legal types of hunting or you will lose your privilege to hunt eventually. We are in the minority and the non-hunting public decides our fate. You better get that thru your heads fast and get on board with the plan. We have airlines not moving trophies due to this crap now. Today a Cape Buffalo or a Lion or Elephant from Africa tomorrow your elk, moose, black bear or deer from Canada, Alaska or even Colorado.

I don't know if the dentist is guilty or not and its none of my business as I am not on the jury. What I do know is if we don't get a handle on this now....it will become the perfect storm and Obama will use it to do more elimination of hunting on federal lands, put more EPA crap into states hunting receiving federal funds and justify more gun control and maybe just maybe federal regulations on crossbows and vertical bows since hunters cannot be trusted to not kill the Lion King.


----------



## prairie lover (May 2, 2015)

my thoughts exactly recurveman 

u cannot trust a thing the media says about tat story.


----------



## prairie lover (May 2, 2015)

Probably the best thing I've read since this all came about: 
OP-ED CONTRIBUTOR In Zimbabwe, We Don’t Cry for Lions 

787 By GOODWELL NZOU AUGUST 4, 2015 Winston-Salem, N.C. — MY mind was absorbed by the biochemistry of gene editing when the text messages and Facebook posts distracted me. 

So sorry about Cecil. 

Did Cecil live near your place in Zimbabwe? 

Cecil who? I wondered. When I turned on the news and discovered that the messages were about a lion killed by an American dentist, the village boy inside me instinctively cheered: One lion fewer to menace families like mine. 

Protesters have called for the death of the hunter who killed Cecil the lion. ERIC MILLER / REUTERS My excitement was doused when I realized that the lion killer was being painted as the villain. I faced the starkest cultural contradiction I’d experienced during my five years studying in the United States. 

Did all those Americans signing petitions understand that lions actually kill people? That all the talk about Cecil being “beloved” or a “local favorite” was media hype? Did Jimmy Kimmel choke up because Cecil was murdered or because he confused him with Simba from “The Lion King”? 

In my village in Zimbabwe, surrounded by wildlife conservation areas, no lion has ever been beloved, or granted an affectionate nickname. They are objects of terror. 

When I was 9 years old, a solitary lion prowled villages near my home. After it killed a few chickens, some goats and finally a cow, we were warned to walk to school in groups and stop playing outside. My sisters no longer went alone to the river to collect water or wash dishes; my mother waited for my father and older brothers, armed with machetes, axes and spears, to escort her into the bush to collect firewood. 

A week later, my mother gathered me with nine of my siblings to explain that her uncle had been attacked but escaped with nothing more than an injured leg. The lion sucked the life out of the village: No one socialized by fires at night; no one dared stroll over to a neighbor’s homestead. 

When the lion was finally killed, no one cared whether its murderer was a local person or a white trophy hunter, whether it was poached or killed legally. We danced and sang about the vanquishing of the fearsome beast and our escape from serious harm. 

Recently, a 14-year-old boy in a village not far from mine wasn’t so lucky. Sleeping in his family’s fields, as villagers do to protect crops from the hippos, buffalo and elephants that trample them, he was mauled by a lion and died. 

The killing of Cecil hasn’t garnered much more sympathy from urban Zimbabweans, although they live with no such danger. Few have ever seen a lion, since game drives are a luxury residents of a country with an average monthly income below $150 cannot afford. 

Don’t misunderstand me: For Zimbabweans, wild animals have near- mystical significance. We belong to clans, and each clan claims an animal totem as its mythological ancestor. Mine is Nzou, elephant, and by tradition, I can’t eat elephant meat; it would be akin to eating a relative’s flesh. But our respect for these animals has never kept us from hunting them or allowing them to be hunted. (I’m familiar with dangerous animals; I lost my right leg to a snakebite when I was 11.) 

The American tendency to romanticize animals that have been given actual names and to jump onto a hashtag train has turned an ordinary situation — there were 800 lions legally killed over a decade by well- heeled foreigners who shelled out serious money to prove their prowess — into what seems to my Zimbabwean eyes an absurdist circus. 

PETA is calling for the hunter to be hanged. Zimbabwean politicians are accusing the United States of staging Cecil’s killing as a “ploy” to make our country look bad. And Americans who can’t find Zimbabwe on a map are applauding the nation’s demand for the extradition of the dentist, unaware that a baby elephant was reportedly slaughtered for our president’s most recent birthday banquet. 

We Zimbabweans are left shaking our heads, wondering why Americans care more about African animals than about African people. 

Don’t tell us what to do with our animals when you allowed your own mountain lions to be hunted to near extinction in the eastern United States. Don’t bemoan the clear-cutting of our forests when you turned yours into concrete jungles. 

And please, don’t offer me condolences about Cecil unless you’re also willing to offer me condolences for villagers killed or left hungry by his brethren, by political violence, or by hunger. 

Goodwell Nzou is a doctoral student in molecular and cellular biosciences at Wake Forest University.


----------



## bg305 (Nov 27, 2011)

In case it hasn't been posted since I'm not going to read 30 pages of nothing constructive. 


https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/donald-trump-supports-hunter-killed-cecil-lion-pay-legal-susan-kehoe


----------



## 2wheels1love (Mar 7, 2015)

Fulldraw1972 said:


> And your stringing him up by a rope and he hasn't had his day in court yet. It is innocent until proven guilty not the other way around.
> Calling it defending him all you want. Until he prooven guilty by a reasonable doubt he is innocent. I refuse to say he is guilty till he is found guilty.


I've stated several times that I don't care about him shooting the lion. If he's guilty or not isn't for me to decide. What I made my opinion on was all his previous issues which makes me not want anything to do with defending this guys honor or whatever you all are trying to do. I don't believe he is the one to get behind because I don't feel he's a good person. I don't want to be put in the same sentence as a guy like this when it comes to him being a hunter. Regardless what they do with him over his legal/illegal kill of a lion. He's not the type of guy I feel represents hunters well so isnt the type that I'm Gona stick my name out to back. Like I said earlier, anyone can be falsely accused of smtg, being falsely accused of multiple smtgs leads me to believe he's probably guilty of at least 1 or more. Agree or disagree that's how I feel about it and him. I'm over this it's gotten to be a standard A&E style argue fest. This is going absolutely nowhere...


----------



## bg305 (Nov 27, 2011)

This is how you support the cause. 


http://edition.cnn.com/2015/08/04/us/idaho-huntress-sabrina-corgatelli/index.html


----------



## bucco921 (Jan 2, 2012)

recurveman said:


> 30 pages of this drivel on a hunting site. OMG!!!! I have an idea how about we worry about the deer this fall. Make sure our equipment is set up and we are well practiced. How about you all make sure you have a safe and functioning full body harness for your tree stand if you ascend one.
> 
> Let the legal process take care of the dentist if he did something illegal. I said IF. We don't know. Quit falling into the social media and libtards methods of trying and convicting him or anyone for that matter until all the facts are in. What concerns me is it looks like the country is caving to social media and pressure to indict and have him extradited to stand trial when at the beginning they said it was ok. If we allow that kind of crap to happen then you can give up your hunting both abroad and at home. The antis will be following you into the woods banging pots and pans on your own property or your hunting lease or in a public forest and try your butt in social media and get off scott free due to them winning public support. I have been telling you all for years....you are either part of the solution or part of the problem. There is no gray area or middle ground here. You support all legal types of hunting or you will lose your privilege to hunt eventually. We are in the minority and the non-hunting public decides our fate. You better get that thru your heads fast and get on board with the plan. We have airlines not moving trophies due to this crap now. Today a Cape Buffalo or a Lion or Elephant from Africa tomorrow your elk, moose, black bear or deer from Canada, Alaska or even Colorado.
> 
> I don't know if the dentist is guilty or not and its none of my business as I am not on the jury. What I do know is if we don't get a handle on this now....it will become the perfect storm and Obama will use it to do more elimination of hunting on federal lands, put more EPA crap into states hunting receiving federal funds and justify more gun control and maybe just maybe federal regulations on crossbows and vertical bows since hunters cannot be trusted to not kill the Lion King.


I agree with everything you said except the first paragraph. Your following paragraphs are exactly why we should be worrying about this.

To those who can't see the bigger picture and seem to have a real identity crisis going on...I've got nothing.

I'm befuddled by the comments like "killing a baited lion isn't hunting" or "lobbing lead at an elephants head isn't hunting" (I paraphrased) but setting out digital cameras all year long, climbing 30 feet up a tree, touting a $1,500 bow set up, leasing land so deer have no contact with humans, covering our scent with god knows what, feeding these deer like pets with high protein diets so they grow big antlers, and on and on is hard? is the ultimate "sporting" hunting? Makes you better than? Spare me that steaming pile of BS.

Hey an African safari isn't my cup of tea, it does nothing for me, but I damn sure don't believe the crap we do every fall is some noble, holier than thou, ultimate sportsman feat.

I'm not confused about who I am and what I set out to do every fall. I love everything about hunting, the fall woods, the birds, being close with nature and YES the killing of an animal.

The action and end result is the same whether its a lion or a whitetail deer that you have pictures of and gave some dumb azz name, you killed an animal. You ain't no better or worse than the guy who lobbed lead at the elephants head...

As for Dr. Palmer, if he broke the law I hope he pays, if he didn't I hope he sues every scum bag media outlet that drug his name through the mud.

BUT, this isn't about a lion or Dr. Palmer-NEVER HAS BEEN, NEVER WILL BE. If you are blind to that then I guess ignorance is bliss applies.


----------



## NYS Archer (Nov 9, 2012)

And that is all that needs to be said ^^^


----------



## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

Yup, there are probably only a few of us "real" hunters around.....:darkbeer:


----------



## 22donk (Feb 20, 2014)

bucco921 said:


> I agree with everything you said except the first paragraph. Your following paragraphs are exactly why we should be worrying about this.
> 
> To those who can't see the bigger picture and seem to have a real identity crisis going on...I've got nothing.
> 
> ...


You seriously nailed it bud. Bravo.


----------



## Rothhar1 (Apr 1, 2007)

I can not beleive that so many of you so called hunters are actually playing right into this attemp by liberal Media and those liberal gun grapping ,weapon hating ,anti hunting Peta loving government officials .Wow you guys just do not get and this sit eis remiss to let these threads that divide hunters and make hunters look stupid stay up for the enjoyment of those liberal grass eating freaks out there that want you all eating bean sprouts and knitting ..I just do not get this at all

WAKE UP!!!!!!!! All of you its not a Debate w should be having here for any reason ever ..It makes us look stupid and dissorganized .Now there are 4 airlines that will not transport big game game trophies from Africa .Whats next your bows your guns your deer head or a fur coat !! You all should be outraged but not about these hunters but buy the reactions and the fact that "hunters" and business that are paid to transport us and what items we pay for will now disscriminate against us and the Gov has not blinked an eye our you guys either .Wonder why ???LOL

FYI we just had 5 American heros shot to death by a peice of crap from another place who hates us !!Thats the real News from that week..FYI


----------



## Darrens6601 (Jul 16, 2015)

Divided we fall


----------



## Rolo (Dec 16, 2002)

KS Bow Hunter said:


> I haven't been outed for anything, you guys are a trip. What I have posted as fact can be Googled all day long...
> 
> Feel free to use your considerable intellect and knowledge to post anything that might support, clarify, or contradict my statements...
> 
> And by the way,* I did leave out, and admitted leaving out, the word allegedly in my first post*. So drop it, get over, time to move on brother...


Still spinning that tale I see...

Well what about your second post, made approximately 25 minutes after the first...



KS Bow Hunter said:


> To each his own, personally I have an appreciation for the big cats...and I find them to be amazing majestic animals...
> 
> You might want to do a little research...Cecil was a major attraction at the park, and has been photographed extensively as a result. As an amateur photog, that is how I was aware of him...
> 
> Either way...*he was killed illegally* for a lot of money...is that OK with you?


I know it is so hard to keep track of the statements...but considering the "pretty simple" language of post 1, and the "either way" language of post 2...yeah, people are having a hard time buying what it is you're selling...or is that a context and comprehension thing too...


----------



## KS Bow Hunter (Nov 22, 2013)

Rolo said:


> Still spinning that tale I see...
> 
> Well what about your second post, made approximately 25 minutes after the first...


OK buddy, go back to being the DA or whatever it is you do. But let it go...it is a public forum, and I can and will state whatever I believe, and you must have some kind of a miserable life, given the amount of time you devote to chasing me around AT!


----------



## Ptoid (Mar 8, 2014)

This is still happening?


----------



## KS Bow Hunter (Nov 22, 2013)

Rolo said:


> Still spinning that tale I see...
> 
> Well what about your second post, made approximately 25 minutes after the first...
> 
> ...


You take everything out of context, highlight what helps your argument, and state nothing of material fact.

What is YOUR opinion, and what are the FACTS as you know them? What do you think the issues are, and what are you going to do about them?

Or are you just going to sit behind your keyboard and keep chasing me around like a combination of my high school English teacher and the Ragin' Cajun?


----------



## Rolo (Dec 16, 2002)

KS Bow Hunter said:


> OK buddy, go back to being the DA or whatever it is you do. But let it go...it is a public forum, and I can and will state whatever I believe, and you must have some kind of a miserable life, given the amount of time you devote to chasing me around AT!





KS Bow Hunter said:


> You take everything out of context, highlight what helps your argument, and state nothing of material fact.
> 
> What is YOUR opinion, and what are the FACTS as you know them? What do you think the issues are, and what are you going to do about them?
> 
> Or are you just going to sit behind your keyboard and keep chasing me around like a combination of my high school English teach and the Ragin' Cajun?


And I'm the one chasing you around...right, right...

But yes, you have proven you can post what ever you want on this public (it's really private) forum...and you have proven that you don't remember what you have posted from one to the next, or really been consistent with much of anything...


----------



## palmatedbuck04 (Nov 26, 2006)

Man i really enjoy Rolo!


----------



## KS Bow Hunter (Nov 22, 2013)

Rolo said:


> And I'm the one chasing you around...right, right...
> 
> But yes, you have proven you can post what ever you want on this public (it's really private) forum...and you have proven that you don't remember what you have posted from one to the next, or really been consistent with much of anything...


Again your opinion based on your weak arguments and with a complete lack of reading comprehension. Go kick the dog if want but let it go, it was only cute for a while. Now your just plain annoying.


----------



## bucco921 (Jan 2, 2012)

palmatedbuck04 said:


> Man i really enjoy Rolo!


X2 lol


----------



## Rolo (Dec 16, 2002)

KS Bow Hunter said:


> What is YOUR opinion, and what are the FACTS as you know them? What do you think the issues are, and what are you going to do about them?


A lion was killed.
Said lion was killed on private property.
Said lion was apparently well known, and his name was Cecil. (CEEcil or Cecil I'm unsure of the correct pronunciation).
The "well known-ness" of Cecil is actually questionable.
Cecil was wearing some sort of tracking collar.
It is not illegal to kill a lion in Zimbabwe on private property assuming the proper permits are held.
It is no illegal to kill a lion wearing a collar.
It is not illegal to kill a lion named Cecil.

Other than that, there really hasn't been much fact presented about this situation, but a whole lot of speculation...and speculation does not lead to an informed opinion...IMO...


----------



## palmatedbuck04 (Nov 26, 2006)

bucco921 said:


> X2 lol


I use to try a debate him but got my azz handed to me everytime.sometimes you just have to realize the beat downs arent fun anymore and that its just easier to agree with him even if you really dont.KS Bow Hunter will figure it out.


----------



## namozine (Mar 15, 2013)

bucco921 said:


> I agree with everything you said except the first paragraph. Your following paragraphs are exactly why we should be worrying about this.
> 
> To those who can't see the bigger picture and seem to have a real identity crisis going on...I've got nothing.
> 
> ...


Great post...


----------



## Rolo (Dec 16, 2002)

KS Bow Hunter said:


> Again your opinion based on your weak arguments and with a complete lack of reading comprehension. Go kick the dog if want but let it go, it was only cute for a while. Now your just plain annoying.


Right...right...I along with everyone else who read your posts the exact same way...

There's a whole lot of comprehensionally challenged folks posting in this thread...or there's a single poster who keeps spinning the top, and continuing to roll snake eyes...

I know I ain't betting the pass line...


----------



## da white shoe (Mar 10, 2009)

2wheels1love said:


> Can you show me which part of that is said in factual terms? .


You mean I need to show you things you said, 
like these...

"having someone bring you to an animal so you can shoot it."

Or, "hunting the yellow pages for someone to take you right to an animal."

Or, "I don't see how you can call being brought to an animal hunting."

Or, "they get driven out to a blind where there guaranteed an animal of their choice, and they just shoot it."

I realize these are YOUR opinions... uninformed as they are. 
But, you are... none the less, stating them as fact. 
I'm here to tell you... you don't know the facts.

Maybe you can enlighten all of us and explain what a "fair" way to bowhunt lions would be? Or, maybe you feel that lions shouldn't be hunted at all.

This fall, when you're sitting in your treestand... (blind)
Waiting for a buck to come in to where he's been feeding... (bait)
In a spot that your father, brother or buddy told you about... (guide)
Remember what you've said in these threads.


----------



## Rolo (Dec 16, 2002)

palmatedbuck04 said:


> I use to try a debate him but got my azz handed to me everytime.sometimes you just have to realize the beat downs arent fun anymore and that its just easier to agree with him even if you really dont.KS Bow Hunter will figure it out.


That's giving me way too much credit. :elf_moon:

But as I recall, even as spirited as those debates were, they never got personal...the whole context - comprehension thing.

I learned a lot about your position from those debates, though my opinion never changed. I'm fairly certain the same applies to you. I don't recall you ever agreeing on the core issue, but maybe we did reach a mutual understanding on the ancillary issues.

Like I said...spirited but respectful...


----------



## ridgehunter70 (Sep 30, 2012)

My one and only question is this.
Where in the hell was all this concern about a stupid lion a month ago? Where was all this concern about a damn flag a year ago? You people need to wake the hell up and stop being sheep and letting the media influence your decisions because it is obvious. Look at all the talk about these 2 subjects. Pitiful, is what it is. 
Smdh


----------



## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

People need to become passionate about their beliefs. They need to not be afraid to show that passion. We are really coming to a turning point.

Yup.


----------



## Billie (Jul 1, 2004)

buckeyboy said:


> They have to find him first. And he will be found guilty wanna bet.


He's not hiding from the state dept or the USFWS. They know where he is. Hes talking to them, and has offered to speak to the ZIM government reps. The state dept. Said they have recieved no official request from them to talk to him. He's hiding from people breaking windows out of his office and house and threatening to kill his family.


----------



## Billie (Jul 1, 2004)

2wheels1love said:


> Your actually right this time. You are hopeless and can't see the big picture. Keep defending this guy, it'll surly help hunting in the future to associate with him. Make everyone think hunters back people like this, good call bud keep up the good fight your doing great...


Still talking? I thought you were done. Is this the part where you tell me again I have to get off the thread? Sorry, love. You don't make that call. 
The big picture, as you want to call it, is that an American hunter has been crucified by you and people like you on nothing more than a lie reported to American News outlets by an antihunting group. These people, and apparently you, don't care if it was based on a lie, because you have convicted him, and matter what facts are proven , you WANT him to be guilty. You repeatedly mention that he paid a lot of money to hunt in Africa. So what. It's legal. You don't like guided hunts? So what? It's legal. You don't like lion hunts? So what? They are legal to hunt. You think defending him is hurting other hunters? How? The people that hate us are still going to hate us, no matter how many other hunters we turn our backs on. You judged him from the first day. I'll judge him by what he did in Africa, and not what I've been told he did by an antihunting group that has been proven to have lied about this from day one.


----------



## Bullhound (Feb 5, 2004)

KS Bow Hunter said:


> OK buddy, go back to being the DA or whatever it is you do. But let it go...it is a public forum, and I can and will state whatever I believe, and you must have some kind of a miserable life, given the amount of time you devote to chasing me around AT!


You do hate it when you get caught over and over don't you. Like has been pointed out numerous times in this thread, your first post about this dentist killing the lion was pure BS, filled with untrue statements. Nobody on this thread has stated the Dentist is innocent of any wrong doing. Many here have simply attempted to get you and others to recognize that you are attacking a man without true knowledge of his guilt OF ANY WRONGDOING. If the guy is found to have done something illegal, we all hope he pays the price, but give the guy a chance and try not to be PETA's best ally.


----------



## Billie (Jul 1, 2004)

COArrow said:


> It seems the other 2 people he was with that were arrested are alive and able to speak, even tell their side. We have a bi-lateral treaty with Zimbabwe as well. If it is such a crazy murderess place whey are his partners in crime free on bail currently and able to speak their side?


First, regardless of what you believe, the government of ZIM. Has not charged him. They have not requested to speak to him, and this is coming from our state dept., He is voluntary talking to the USFWS, after HE contacted THEM. The men charged in ZIM are ZIM citizens. They say they are going to trial and have done nothing wrong, and if you beleive the ZIM news, if they ARE found guilty, will pay a 5000 fine. I'm sure they will be fine. 
If you were this dentist, can you give a good reason why you would get on a plane and fly back to Z after all this? Or maybe you would wAit and see what the state dept. Tells you to do. That would be the smart thing to do.


----------



## KS Bow Hunter (Nov 22, 2013)

Bullhound said:


> You do hate it when you get caught over and over don't you. Like has been pointed out numerous times in this thread, your first post about this dentist killing the lion was pure BS, filled with untrue statements. Nobody on this thread has stated the Dentist is innocent of any wrong doing. Many here have simply attempted to get you and others to recognize that you are attacking a man without true knowledge of his guilt OF ANY WRONGDOING. If the guy is found to have done something illegal, we all hope he pays the price, but give the guy a chance and try not to be PETA's best ally.


If I had got caught, maybe, I got caught in nothing except chiming in on something that is futile...

I never attacked the dentist. Not once. 

I also said I omitted "alledgedly" on my first post which I should have qualified. I can't go back and edit or delete, and I've admitted I omitted a word...get over it.

However, there have been a number of people on this thread that have blindly supported the dentist without knowing the truth, just as there have been enough on the other side calling for his crucifixion. Many said it's just a lion, who cares, that he had paid enough, etc. You can go back through it page by page and find those...as late as today...see @earlyice's post (not picking on him) today for instance...

My primary point in my first post, irrespective of what anyone says, was that AT is a funny bunch...if this was a local alleged poacher, he'd have been tried in the mob rules AT court and convicted already...but if it is someone being attacked by antis, that didn't hurt us, we are OK with it...

I could care less what any of you guys thinks. I'm good with myself and whole with my life and how I lead it.

My opinion is simple...I think something stinks, and I think the doc knew about it. We'll see if my OPINION is right at some point...


----------



## KS Bow Hunter (Nov 22, 2013)

Rolo said:


> A lion was killed.
> Said lion was killed on private property.
> Said lion was apparently well known, and his name was Cecil. (CEEcil or Cecil I'm unsure of the correct pronunciation).
> The "well known-ness" of Cecil is actually questionable.
> ...


So we finally agree...thanks for sharing...

The only thing I would add is that based on what I've read the reason this whole thing blew up is that when the cape was set to be sent to the States, the proper permits were not in hand to do so. By definition, if that is the case, then the lion was taken illegally on private property.

Secondly, according to statements made by the PH, he said that he wished they had turned the collar in and removed the carcass.

So I guess we could debate the degree to which the lack of a permit is really illegal and what the dentist knew...but the part we do know is that he was aware of the collar, and the carcass, and was complicit in leaving both where they were.

Now, had they turned the collar in, and removed the carcass, and admitted to the local authorities that they didn't have the right permit (assuming they didn't) I would submit that none of this would have happened.

If the dentist did know, and was complicit, then he has to be smart enough to expect that this would turn into the mess that it is...

I'm not calling for the guy's head, but I've read enough to know I wouldn't let my daughter sit in his chair...unfair, maybe, but it is reality...

From my seat, it appears to me that the guy has a history of using his means to get what he wants, hunting or otherwise...personally I don't care for those types of folks...not because of the wealth, but because of the attitude they have towards others...

Yes, a lot of speculation in there if you'd like to call it that...but my gut has served me well my entire life, and I'm not afraid to trust it and be vocal about it, irrespective of whether it is popular or not...


----------



## Rolo (Dec 16, 2002)

KS Bow Hunter said:


> So we finally agree...thanks for sharing...


WTH do you mean finally? Everything I posted as fact has existed since this event unfolded. There's no finally to it...facts a not a finally thing. Are you a politician?



KS Bow Hunter said:


> The only thing I would add is that based on what I've read the reason this whole thing blew up is that when the cape was set to be sent to the States, the proper permits were not in hand to do so. By definition, if that is the case, then the lion was taken illegally on private property.


By definition? Who's definition? What is the definition? Who is responsible for securing the permits? Who would be committing the illegal act...assuming there was an illegal act? Of course, the PH has been quoted as saying there was not anything illegal that occurred on his part or the dentist's part.



KS Bow Hunter said:


> Secondly, according to statements made by the PH, he said that he wished they had turned the collar in and removed the carcass.
> 
> ...
> 
> Now, had they turned the collar in, and removed the carcass, and admitted to the local authorities that they didn't have the right permit (assuming they didn't) I would submit that none of this would have happened.


Is that the same PH who said he did turn the collar in? Which is it? Did the collar get turned in or not? It sure sounds like the verified statement of the PH is that the collar was turned in. What does removing the carcass have to do with anything? No one has suggested that not removing the carcass was illegal.

Well, let's assume they thought they had the proper permit...the only permit that is alleged was not proper was that of the land owner. What is the dentists culpability in the land owners failure to obtain the proper permit (maybe) when he was relying on what his PH told him? How can someone admit something if they are unaware of the something? I mean it's a unique idea and all, but nonsensical anyway you look at it..oh yeah...there has been absolutely zero implications that the dentist knew the LO didn';t have a permit, or that he should have known that he didn't have the permit...

I submit that if folks with an agenda were actually held accountable for their misrepresentations, including "hunters" who readily jump on the band wagon, this issue never would have gotten the attention it did...but, sensationalism wins over facts...as demonstrated in this thread.



KS Bow Hunter said:


> So I guess we could debate the degree to which the lack of a permit is really illegal and what the dentist knew...but the part we do know is that he was aware of the collar, and the carcass, and was complicit in leaving both where they were.


Was leaving the carcass where it was illegal? Was it his responsibility to turn the collar in? How soon must the collar be turned in? Was it illegal, or just a violation of custom not to turn the collar in?



KS Bow Hunter said:


> If the dentist did know, and was complicit, then he has to be smart enough to expect that this would turn into the mess that it is...


Wait..what? You just got done saying he WAS complicit, and now you are saying that IF he was complicit. Which is it? Where have I seen this level of inconsistency? And if he wasn't...I'm sure he thanks your contribution to the mess that folks posting on assumption, speculation, 1/2 truths and fiction have created...



KS Bow Hunter said:


> I'm not calling for the guy's head, but I've read enough to know I wouldn't let my daughter sit in his chair...unfair, maybe, but it is reality.


Ok..glad you got that figured out...



KS Bow Hunter said:


> From my seat, it appears to me that the guy has a history of using his means to get what he wants, hunting or otherwise...personally I don't care for those types of folks...not because of the wealth, but because of the attitude they have towards others...


Based on? The two game violations? (One, fishing w/o a permit is relatively minor IMO). The harassment case? What are we missing? What underlying facts are you aware of that leads to this conclusion? I mean its not like he tells people about his important jobs with huge multinational corporations in an effort to add substance to his statements...not that such employment has any relevance to the topic at hand...

Oh yeah...there's a reason Billy Graham refused to ride in an elevator or a car with only a female present...he ws a big target with a lot of cash... 



KS Bow Hunter said:


> Yes, a lot of speculation in there if you'd like to call it that...but my gut has served me well my entire life, and I'm not afraid to trust it and be vocal about it, irrespective of whether it is popular or not...


OK...so are you back to absolute guilt again? If not, WTH does this have to do with anything, other than it is the way you feel...

What are you being vocal about..it sure as heck is not waiting until all the evidence is in before making any conclusions...


----------



## Darrens6601 (Jul 16, 2015)

.


----------



## 2wheels1love (Mar 7, 2015)

Billie said:


> Still talking? I thought you were done. Is this the part where you tell me again I have to get off the thread? Sorry, love. You don't make that call.
> The big picture, as you want to call it, is that an American hunter has been crucified by you and people like you on nothing more than a lie reported to American News outlets by an antihunting group. These people, and apparently you, don't care if it was based on a lie, because you have convicted him, and matter what facts are proven , you WANT him to be guilty. You repeatedly mention that he paid a lot of money to hunt in Africa. So what. It's legal. You don't like guided hunts? So what? It's legal. You don't like lion hunts? So what? They are legal to hunt. You think defending him is hurting other hunters? How? The people that hate us are still going to hate us, no matter how many other hunters we turn our backs on. You judged him from the first day. I'll judge him by what he did in Africa, and not what I've been told he did by an antihunting group that has been proven to have lied about this from day one.


Lol Don't put words in my mouth, never said anything about hating lion hunts or think lions shouldn't be hunted. I've stated several times I don't give a shizz about the legal part of it. That's for their courts or whomever works this crap out in Africa to decide. It's ok to have a difference in opinion on hunting styles. Mine come from my own experience, been on a hunt where it was like picking out a pizza. Was what do you want to shoot, ok lets go right to it. All I said was I tried it and it wasnt for me. Re read if you'd like. And if your going to trash the media maybe try not being one of them by taking single lines of a quote and posting them Same as the papers do to people everyday, take a single line outta context and make your own filler for it. Grow up kiddo and stop being such a troll, make up your own mind based on your own exsperiance. By the way you speak about hunting I'd be very surprised if you've ever hunted a day in your life, never mind being an avid hunter.. Sure doesn't sound like it, sound like just another troll poser acting the part anonymously online.


----------



## rodney482 (Aug 31, 2004)

And this is why you dont argue with Rolo.. :clap:





Rolo said:


> WTH do you mean finally? Everything I posted as fact has existed since this event unfolded. There's no finally to it...facts a not a finally thing. Are you a politician?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Michael Myers (Nov 13, 2008)

Darrens6601 said:


> .


African lion safari.............:cheers:


Get the bbq turned on......:beer:


----------



## rodney482 (Aug 31, 2004)

Correct me if I an wrong but Zimbabawe law places all the responsibility on the PH and Outfitter.

The PH has already stated he told Palmer to shoot the lion, the outfitter states they had a tag.

This is Zimbabwe, not Ohio where you pick up your rules and regs and tag at walmart. 

Legal to kill lions that come off refuge.. Yes
Legal to kill lions with archery equipment.. Yes
Legal to kill lions with collars... Yes

What I do know is that every T has to be crossed and every I dotted to get animals out of Africa and back to the US.
$55,000 is a very expensive lion hunt, makes zero sense to spend that kind of money on a sketchy hunt.

Palmer has hunted all over Africa with zero violations, he also knows what it takes to import your trophies. 

When you look at the totality of the circumstances I can not fathom why anyone would be calling Palmer guilty.


----------



## palmatedbuck04 (Nov 26, 2006)

rodney482 said:


> And this is why you dont argue with Rolo.. :clap:


Aint that the truth,i tried to a couple times,was to hard headed to give up.i learned my lesson.now when Rolo chimes in on someone i lean back,put my feet up,grab a beer,tell the kids to be quiet,and enjoy an entertaining evening.
Like they say "if u cant beat them join them"


----------



## Ptoid (Mar 8, 2014)

ridgehunter70 said:


> My one and only question is this.
> Where in the hell was all this concern about a stupid lion a month ago? Where was all this concern about a damn flag a year ago? You people need to wake the hell up and stop being sheep and letting the media influence your decisions because it is obvious. Look at all the talk about these 2 subjects. Pitiful, is what it is.
> Smdh


Sorry but two month ago people did care about the confederate flag. This is a terrible comparison used in your image here although i get its overall meaning. It makes some sense with the cecil situation but not the flag. It is a disgrace that that flag flew over state buildings and is part of the Mississippi state flag.


----------



## ridgehunter70 (Sep 30, 2012)

Ptoid said:


> Sorry but two month ago people did care about the confederate flag. This is a terrible comparison used in your image here although i get its overall meaning. It makes some sense with the cecil situation but not the flag. It is a disgrace that that flag flew over state buildings and is part of the Mississippi state flag.


If you are so worried about the flag then when where was your concern 2 months ago? Keep listening sheep.
Your reply is a prime example of most people listening to the media and then following along blindly.


----------



## MiStickSlinger (Mar 15, 2013)

Ptoid said:


> Sorry but two month ago people did care about the confederate flag. This is a terrible comparison used in your image here although i get its overall meaning. It makes some sense with the cecil situation but not the flag. It is a disgrace that that flag flew over state buildings and is part of the Mississippi state flag.


Go cry about the flag in the anything and everything forum, I think it's a very good comparison, in a couple weeks nobody will care about this stupid lion and the twitter/facebook lynchmobs will be on to something else the news says is horrible


----------



## ridgehunter70 (Sep 30, 2012)

2wheels1love said:


> Lol Don't put words in my mouth, never said anything about hating lion hunts or think lions shouldn't be hunted. I've stated several times I don't give a shizz about the legal part of it. That's for their courts or whomever works this crap out in Africa to decide. It's ok to have a difference in opinion on hunting styles. Mine come from my own experience, been on a hunt where it was like picking out a pizza. Was what do you want to shoot, ok lets go right to it. All I said was I tried it and it wasnt for me. Re read if you'd like. And if your going to trash the media maybe try not being one of them by taking single lines of a quote and posting them Same as the papers do to people everyday, take a single line outta context and make your own filler for it. Grow up kiddo and stop being such a troll, make up your own mind based on your own exsperiance. By the way you speak about hunting I'd be very surprised if you've ever hunted a day in your life, never mind being an avid hunter.. Sure doesn't sound like it, sound like just another troll poser acting the part anonymously online.


Aahhh. I see im not the only one. Guess she had to start her stupid crap again. Trust me when I say, 
Best thing you can do is leave this tool alone.


----------



## ridgehunter70 (Sep 30, 2012)

palmatedbuck04 said:


> Aint that the truth,i tried to a couple times,was to hard headed to give up.i learned my lesson.now when Rolo chimes in on someone i lean back,put my feet up,grab a beer,tell the kids to be quiet,and enjoy an entertaining evening.
> Like they say "if u cant beat them join them"


Hahahaha
Aint that the truth. Ive had a couple bouts with this brick head. And theres a few more thats just like him


----------



## Ptoid (Mar 8, 2014)

ridgehunter70 said:


> If you are so worried about the flag then when where was your concern 2 months ago? Keep listening sheep.
> Your reply is a prime example of most people listening to the media and then following along blindly.


My concern was there for years as was the concern of the African American students i teach as well as all the decent educated people of this country. I teach a novel set in Mississippi in 1933 and for thirteen years have pointed out that the Miss. State flag still has the confederate flag on it. When asked why this is an issue they would state that the flag represented states that wanted slavery. 

Its really simple but it doesnt fit with the media is liberal brainwashing and obama is evil empire fox news punditry rhetoric nonsense.


----------



## 2wheels1love (Mar 7, 2015)

ridgehunter70 said:


> Aahhh. I see im not the only one. Guess she had to start her stupid crap again. Trust me when I say,
> Best thing you can do is leave this tool alone.


Lol guess I could say the same, so I'm not the only one? Hah... Mad at myself for letting another AT troll lure me into a battle of stupidity. Sucks that morons like that are ruining this forum but what can you do. No laws against being an idiot unfortunately. Appreciate the heads up, thanks...


----------



## BigDeer (Aug 9, 2005)

KS Bow Hunter said:


> I never attacked the dentist. Not once.


Seriously?? 

Seems to me your multiple posts declaring his guilt are an attack. Slanderous to a degree really. But it's your gut feeling so that's ok then, right? Then if he is found innocent of any wrongdoing you can throw your hands up and say "My bad!" and it's ok.....and if he is found guilty of wrongdoing...score another one for your gut.


----------



## BigDeer (Aug 9, 2005)

2wheels1love said:


> Lol guess I could say the same, so I'm not the only one? Hah... Mad at myself for letting another AT troll lure me into a battle of stupidity. Sucks that morons like that are ruining this forum but what can you do. No laws against being an idiot unfortunately. Appreciate the heads up, thanks...


Seems when you get stuck with your thought process you resort to name calling and the like. "Grow up kiddo" "Fools" "Idiot" "Morons" etc

You've even stated you get upset over this discussion, how about leave it (which I believe you've said you're done more than once) or take you're own advice and grow up. I don't agree with KS BH but at least he can handle a civil discussion.


----------



## BigDeer (Aug 9, 2005)

rodney482 said:


> Correct me if I an wrong but Zimbabawe law places all the responsibility on the PH and Outfitter.
> 
> The PH has already stated he told Palmer to shoot the lion, the outfitter states they had a tag.
> 
> ...


Very good points, unless something is missing from the equation....seems like it's 100% sensationalism


----------



## ridgehunter70 (Sep 30, 2012)

2wheels1love said:


> Lol guess I could say the same, so I'm not the only one? Hah... Mad at myself for letting another AT troll lure me into a battle of stupidity. Sucks that morons like that are ruining this forum but what can you do. No laws against being an idiot unfortunately. Appreciate the heads up, thanks...


Lol. If there were laws against stupidity, 90% of at would have to leave. She lives in her own little world and connot stand to be put in her place. Shes a ex leo and thats her problem with me. I kept putting the truth about some on the a and e section and I could almost smell her about to blow a gasket. I think its funny.


----------



## 2wheels1love (Mar 7, 2015)

BigDeer said:


> Seems when you get stuck with your thought process you resort to name calling and the like. "Grow up kiddo" "Fools" "Idiot" "Morons" etc
> 
> You've even stated you get upset over this discussion, how about leave it (which I believe you've said you're done more than once) or take you're own advice and grow up. I don't agree with KS BH but at least he can handle a civil discussion.


Yes silly troll you are correct. Call it as I see it. Don't like it? Change the channel... I never engaged you or your little troll buddy, never originally commented on another persons post, only answered the OP, you chose to engage me so was forced into defending my original statements and respond to your posts full of out of context nonsense.. Wasn't aware I was dealin with your types at that point. Now I'm fully aware so you can say anything you'd like. It's now nothing but comical on this end... Otherwise go right ahead an troll on little troll, troll on... Nobody worth worrying about is taking your ridiculous statements serious besides your fellow trolls. Me, just amusing myself while at work. Sometimes the troller becomes the troll-ie. But don't worry there will be new members that stumble across this today and you can start your trolling fresh


----------



## 2wheels1love (Mar 7, 2015)

ridgehunter70 said:


> Lol. If there were laws against stupidity, 90% of at would have to leave. She lives in her own little world and connot stand to be put in her place. Shes a ex leo and thats her problem with me. I kept putting the truth about some on the a and e section and I could almost smell her about to blow a gasket. I think its funny.


Ahha now it makes sense lol...


----------



## BigDeer (Aug 9, 2005)

2wheels1love said:


> Yes silly troll you are correct. Call it as I see it. Don't like it? Change the channel... I never engaged you or your little troll buddy, never originally commented on another persons post, only answered the OP, you chose to engage me so was forced into defending my original statements and respond to your posts full of out of context nonsense.. Wasn't aware I was dealin with your types at that point. Now I'm fully aware so you can say anything you'd like. It's now nothing but comical on this end... Otherwise go right ahead an troll on little troll, troll on... Nobody worth worrying about is taking your ridiculous statements serious besides your fellow trolls. Me, just amusing myself while at work. Sometimes the troller becomes the troll-ie. But don't worry there will be new members that stumble across this today and you can start your trolling fresh


Typical...pete and repeat response..... Enjoy amusing yourself.


----------



## 2wheels1love (Mar 7, 2015)

BigDeer said:


> Typical...pete and repeat response..... Enjoy amusing yourself.


I surly will, thank you. Your senseless join the masses posts sure do shrink when your fellow trolls are not around to egg you on.. Huh, weird.


----------



## BigDeer (Aug 9, 2005)

2wheels1love said:


> I surly will, thank you. Your senseless join the masses posts sure do shrink when your fellow trolls are not around to egg you on.. Huh, weird.


"surely" correct? I've seen you use it and I'm not sure if it's autocorrect or you don't know what surly means...


----------



## MiStickSlinger (Mar 15, 2013)

Ptoid said:


> My concern was there for years as was the concern of the African American students i teach as well as all the decent educated people of this country. I teach a novel set in Mississippi in 1933 and for thirteen years have pointed out that the Miss. State flag still has the confederate flag on it. When asked why this is an issue they would state that the flag represented states that wanted slavery.
> 
> Its really simple but it doesnt fit with the media is liberal brainwashing and obama is evil empire fox news punditry rhetoric nonsense.


Thanks for doing your part in indoctrinating our nation's children.... I'm sure your students will do an excellent job of playing the victim card when they grow up


----------



## COArrow (Nov 24, 2013)

MiStickSlinger said:


> Thanks for doing your part in indoctrinating our nation's children.... I'm sure your students will do an excellent job of playing the victim card when they grow up


Based on this thread I guess he taught the dentist as well then;-)


----------



## 2wheels1love (Mar 7, 2015)

BigDeer said:


> "surely" correct? I've seen you use it and I'm not sure if it's autocorrect or you don't know what surly means...


All you have left to try an pick on is autocorrect huh? Jeez I hope for your sake the other trolls show up soon. You -surly- are in desperate need of some help lol...


----------



## 2wheels1love (Mar 7, 2015)

BigDeer said:


> "surely" correct? I've seen you use it and I'm not sure if it's autocorrect or you don't know what surly means...


All you have left to try an pick on is autocorrect huh? Jeez I hope for your sake the other trolls show up soon. You -surly- are in desperate need of some help! lol...


----------



## buckeyboy (Feb 6, 2007)

Billie said:


> He's not hiding from the state dept or the USFWS. They know where he is. Hes talking to them, and has offered to speak to the ZIM government reps. The state dept. Said they have recieved no official request from them to talk to him. He's hiding from people breaking windows out of his office and house and threatening to kill his family.


so why aren't the police protecting his house and him???


----------



## TAIL_CHASER (Dec 23, 2014)

Cecil is dead..... Cecil didn't have 9 Lives


----------



## BigDeer (Aug 9, 2005)

2wheels1love said:


> All you have left to try an pick on is autocorrect huh? Jeez I hope for your sake the other trolls show up soon. You -surly- are in desperate need of some help! lol...


Nice response (echo) 2wheels, could have said yeah it's autocorrect (autocorrect gets me too when using my phone), but nah...you have to continue your style. 

Internet Trolls (wiki)- "In Internet slang, a troll (/ˈtroʊl/, /ˈtrɒl/) is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people, by posting inflammatory,[1] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[2] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion."

What have you brought to the discussion? Your opinion about the dentist based on two things: 1. you don't like lion hunting 2. You don't like the dentist because of past transgressions. That is what you're basing your opinion on about the dentist. Yet if someone tries to discuss this with you, you resort to childish banter and name calling and you even admitted you get all in a hussy sometimes in this discussion. 

It's like watching a slow motion but entertaining wreck....


----------



## Be jay (Jul 26, 2014)

This is how I feel when I look at all these "protestors."







r


----------



## BigDeer (Aug 9, 2005)

buckeyboy said:


> so why aren't the police protecting his house and him???


did a google search..TMZ says he hasn't asked for it but Eden Prairie police have begun some level of protection

http://www.tmz.com/2015/07/30/cecil-the-lion-killer-dentist-police-protection-home/


----------



## Ptoid (Mar 8, 2014)

MiStickSlinger said:


> Thanks for doing your part in indoctrinating our nation's children.... I'm sure your students will do an excellent job of playing the victim card when they grow up


No its called education. Check it out sometime. You know history, thinking, words, etc. Try googling the confederacy. 

They don't have to play it. Ask them. And their parents. Do you really think you know what its like to be an African American? How many things have you taken for granted because of your race and gender?

I know because I've listened when they have shared some of these things. I don't pretend to understand totally but I try to. Give it a shot sometime, you might be surprised. 

On a related note i am shocked at the level of ignorance and closemindedness from a bunch of guys who are really so kind, knowledgable and helpful about archery.


----------



## COArrow (Nov 24, 2013)

Ptoid said:


> No its called education. Check it out sometime. You know history, thinking, words, etc. Try googling the confederacy.
> 
> They don't have to play it. Ask them. And their parents. Do you really think you know what its like to be an African American? How many things have you taken for granted because of your race and gender?
> 
> ...


You are correct and have a noble profession. More truth in your post than the previous 33 pages combined. Thanks.


----------



## 2wheels1love (Mar 7, 2015)

BigDeer said:


> Nice response (echo) 2wheels, could have said yeah it's autocorrect (autocorrect gets me too when using my phone), but nah...you have to continue your style.
> 
> Internet Trolls (wiki)- "In Internet slang, a troll (/ˈtroʊl/, /ˈtrɒl/) is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people, by posting inflammatory,[1] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[2] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion."
> 
> ...


Besides defining yourself as a troll, I will once again tell the Reading comprehension challenged, never once have a said I am against lion hunting. Ever here or anywhere. Because I'm not. Has that sunk in finally? Or still going to try an make stuff up as a half arse attempt as sounding like you know something about something? My god son, if your going to troll an try an pick on people at least pay attention... And also as already stated, but your obviously not capable of following along, I answered the OP with what I thought, which is what was asked originally. You and your little fellow trolls started engaging certain people, all you've done with your latest post is describe exactly to a Tee what your doing. And that's sad to try an project your own stupidity onto another. Says plenty of you. Just quit while your ahead there lil feller your starting to sound super pathetic... Your just not at a level of trolling where you can hang solo, like I said, wait for your reinforcements they will help you along as usual... Good day sir...


----------



## Fulldraw1972 (Jan 6, 2012)

Ptoid said:


> No its called education. Check it out sometime. You know history, thinking, words, etc. Try googling the confederacy.
> 
> They don't have to play it. Ask them. And their parents. Do you really think you know what its like to be an African American? How many things have you taken for granted because of your race and gender?
> 
> ...


Just how do we get on the subject of slavery and white people taking things for granted on a thread about a lion and a hunter?

I know a picture huh. 

A couple of individuals on this thread have there opinion on the subject at hand. They don't want to listen to reasoning but want to place blame with out getting the whole story (facts). Then get emotional when there opinion isn't winning over the majority. Sounds like anti-hunters to me.


----------



## B4L Okie (Dec 6, 2011)

What's is the point of this thread? I forgot because of all of the *****in and moaning!


----------



## BigDeer (Aug 9, 2005)

2wheels1love said:


> Besides defining yourself as a troll, I will once again tell the Reading comprehension challenged, never once have a said I am against lion hunting. Ever here or anywhere. Because I'm not. Has that sunk in finally? Or still going to try an make stuff up as a half arse attempt as sounding like you know something about something? My god son, if your going to troll an try an pick on people at least pay attention... And also as already stated, but your obviously not capable of following along, I answered the OP with what I thought, which is what was asked originally. You and your little fellow trolls started engaging certain people, all you've done with your latest post is describe exactly to a Tee what your doing. And that's sad to try an project your own stupidity onto another. Says plenty of you. Just quit while your ahead there lil feller your starting to sound super pathetic... Your just not at a level of trolling where you can hang solo, like I said, wait for your reinforcements they will help you along as usual... Good day sir...


Quoting you..

"Listen there fella, you are the one going off on me because I *disagree with a method of hunting,* forming an opinion on me because you disagree with what I think about somebody you don't even know. So don't project your misguided anger my way."

Method of hunting which includes Lion hunting correct? Or what method/type were you referring too? 

see post 819 by Fulldraw...last paragraph..


----------



## MiStickSlinger (Mar 15, 2013)

Ptoid said:


> No its called education. Check it out sometime. You know history, thinking, words, etc. Try googling the confederacy.
> 
> They don't have to play it. Ask them. And their parents. Do you really think you know what its like to be an African American? How many things have you taken for granted because of your race and gender?
> 
> ...


I guess we should change the name of this website to "WhitePriveledgeTalk" .... Man am I glad I don't live in New York


----------



## 2wheels1love (Mar 7, 2015)

BigDeer said:


> Quoting you..
> 
> "Listen there fella, you are the one going off on me because I *disagree with a method of hunting,* forming an opinion on me because you disagree with what I think about somebody you don't even know. So don't project your misguided anger my way."
> 
> ...


Method of hunting as in the METHOD not the animal. I stated a million times paying to be brought to animals wasnt for me. Like I said, PAY ATTENTION try an keep up


----------



## Ptoid (Mar 8, 2014)

MiStickSlinger said:


> I guess we should change the name of this website to "WhitePriveledgeTalk" .... Man am I glad I don't live in New York


Yeah were glad youre not here as well


----------



## 2wheels1love (Mar 7, 2015)

You do know the difference between the words "method" and "lion" correct? So keep diggin, keep posting things out of context. One of them may hit for you eventually...


----------



## Kansas Bruisers (Dec 14, 2006)

2wheels1love said:


> Besides defining yourself as a troll, I will once again tell the Reading comprehension challenged, never once have a said I am against lion hunting. Ever here or anywhere. Because I'm not. Has that sunk in finally? Or still going to try an make stuff up as a half arse attempt as sounding like you know something about something? My god son, if your going to troll an try an pick on people at least pay attention... And also as already stated, but your obviously not capable of following along, I answered the OP with what I thought, which is what was asked originally. You and your little fellow trolls started engaging certain people, all you've done with your latest post is describe exactly to a Tee what your doing. And that's sad to try an project your own stupidity onto another. Says plenty of you. Just quit while your ahead there lil feller your starting to sound super pathetic... Your just not at a level of trolling where you can hang solo, like I said, wait for your reinforcements they will help you along as usual... Good day sir...


You've stated plenty of times in your posts that based on Palmers past, he must be guilty of some crime even though he has not been charged with anything and none of us know all the facts. You also said those that don't fall in line with your thinking are blindly supporting Palmer and making him the poster boy for hunting. Very few people on this thread are blindly supporting Palmer, most have said if he is found guilty of a crime he should be punished.

What we are supporting is not blindly convicting him (as you and a few others have) without knowing the facts. You base your judgement of Palmer on his past, should everyone be judged by that standard? I agree a shaky past can be a predictor of future behavior and should raise red flags, but it does not mean we should pile on before we know what really happened.

You have bailed on your stance and now resort to name calling and deflection, it's not a good look for anyone.


----------



## BigDeer (Aug 9, 2005)

2wheels1love said:


> You do know the difference between the words "method" and "lion" correct? So keep diggin, keep posting things out of context. One of them may hit for you eventually...


uh huh

In a thread about lion hunting...nothing was taken out of context, we both know it. If that is your stance, so be it.


----------



## bg305 (Nov 27, 2011)

An old timer once told me..... Don't argue with fools, because from afar people can't tell who is who.


----------



## palmatedbuck04 (Nov 26, 2006)

Where is Rolo when u need him? The thread has gone stale,same 3-4 guys pissing in each others cherrios.


----------



## Billie (Jul 1, 2004)

2wheels1love said:


> Lol Don't put words in my mouth, never said anything about hating lion hunts or think lions shouldn't be hunted. I've stated several times I don't give a shizz about the legal part of it. That's for their courts or whomever works this crap out in Africa to decide. It's ok to have a difference in opinion on hunting styles. Mine come from my own experience, been on a hunt where it was like picking out a pizza. Was what do you want to shoot, ok lets go right to it. All I said was I tried it and it wasnt for me. Re read if you'd like. And if your going to trash the media maybe try not being one of them by taking single lines of a quote and posting them Same as the papers do to people everyday, take a single line outta context and make your own filler for it. Grow up kiddo and stop being such a troll, make up your own mind based on your own exsperiance. By the way you speak about hunting I'd be very surprised if you've ever hunted a day in your life, never mind being an avid hunter.. Sure doesn't sound like it, sound like just another troll poser acting the part anonymously online.


Of course. Your comments regarding hunting methods in previous posts we incorrect? Are you saying you approve of guided hunts now? You approve of people paying lots of money to hunt? What happened overnight to change your mind? You've been VERY clear from the first posting how you feel. 
The qoutes or links I post are from actual reports from the ZIM government for the ZIM media. The media reports in the US are biased against hunting, and anyone that doesn't see that is naive. The lies they have printed about this is embarrassing and nothing more than drama to get reactions. 
Your opinions ARE yours. I've said that. Your entitled to them. BUT other have a right to respond when you cont. to voice them, and they are bases on proven lies. That's how it works. YOU don't get to decide who comments. It's not a forum just for YOU. 

As for you personal opinions of me, since you've obviously not read any other posts I've ever made on AT, allow me to say, with ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY that I don't have to know anything more about you to say that I've hunted more than you. I'm absolutely certain I've killed more than you have. I've hunted and killed in 12 states, 3 countries, with bows, rifles, or spears, and I've been doing it for 4 decades, so you can take your condescending superior attitude, and apply it where it needs to be. You might need to move your head out the way first.


----------



## Fulldraw1972 (Jan 6, 2012)

2wheels1love said:


> Method of hunting as in the METHOD not the animal. I stated a million times paying to be brought to animals wasnt for me. Like I said, PAY ATTENTION try an keep up


"It's not for you" I will respect that. I myself do a lot of diy hunts out west. I like the research that I put into it as much as the hunt it self. 
However I do want to hunt brown bears in Alaska. A guide is required for NR. I also wouldn't mind hunting Dahl sheep as well as mountain goats up there. Both require a guide. I have hunted wilderness and I like it but I doubt I will hunt wilderness in Wyoming since a guide is required. I also want to hunt Africa. Again a guide (PH) is required. I have talked to enough people that have done these hunts. They are far from a guide taking you out and just shooting the animal.


----------



## Kansas Bruisers (Dec 14, 2006)

palmatedbuck04 said:


> Where is Rolo when u need him? The thread has gone stale,same 3-4 guys pissing in each others cherrios.


He is busy putting Obama in his place.


----------



## spedelbrock (Jun 18, 2013)

What's next a doctor shooting dumbo?


----------



## palmatedbuck04 (Nov 26, 2006)

Kansas Bruisers said:


> He is busy putting Obama in his place.


Atleast he is doing something constructive


----------



## 2wheels1love (Mar 7, 2015)

Kansas Bruisers said:


> You've stated plenty of times in your posts that based on Palmers past, he must be guilty of some crime even though he has not been charged with anything and none of us know all the facts. You also said those that don't fall in line with your thinking are blindly supporting Palmer and making him the poster boy for hunting. Very few people on this thread are blindly supporting Palmer, most have said if he is found guilty of a crime he should be punished.
> 
> What we are supporting is not blindly convicting him (as you and a few others have) without knowing the facts. You base your judgement of Palmer on his past, should everyone be judged by that standard? I agree a shaky past can be a predictor of future behavior and should raise red flags, but it does not mean we should pile on before we know what really happened.
> 
> You have bailed on your stance and now resort to name calling and deflection, it's not a good look for anyone.


You are correct I lowerd myself to BigDeer levels and returned fire at him. 100% accurate and I admitted it already. Trolls need a taste of their own meds sometimes. If for nothing else than they just flat deserve it. As my stance on Palmer yea I did have a 1st impression of him, as did everyone. A 1st impression isn't something you choose it's exactly what it's called. A 1st impression. And mine on the dentist wasnt a good one. Just is how he struck me, take it or leave it that's how he comes across to me. As for these other clowns making things up and posting outta context just to get a rise outta people yea they deserve it back 10fold. If someone starts with me I will be there to finish. Trolls need to be trolled once in awhile to try an help stop it in the future.


----------



## 2wheels1love (Mar 7, 2015)

Billie said:


> Of course. Your comments regarding hunting methods in previous posts we incorrect? Are you saying you approve of guided hunts now? You approve of people paying lots of money to hunt? What happened overnight to change your mind? You've been VERY clear from the first posting how you feel.
> The qoutes or links I post are from actual reports from the ZIM government for the ZIM media. The media reports in the US are biased against hunting, and anyone that doesn't see that is naive. The lies they have printed about this is embarrassing and nothing more than drama to get reactions.
> Your opinions ARE yours. I've said that. Your entitled to them. BUT other have a right to respond when you cont. to voice them, and they are bases on proven lies. That's how it works. YOU don't get to decide who comments. It's not a forum just for YOU.
> 
> As for you personal opinions of me, since you've obviously not read any other posts I've ever made on AT, allow me to say, with ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY that I don't have to know anything more about you to say that I've hunted more than you. I'm absolutely certain I've killed more than you have. I've hunted and killed in 12 states, 3 countries, with bows, rifles, or spears, and I've been doing it for 4 decades, so you can take your condescending superior attitude, and apply it where it needs to be. You might need to move your head out the way first.


I changed my views somehow? Lol oh god what are you talking about. Oh Lord please have mercy on these people...


----------



## Billie (Jul 1, 2004)

Seriously. If you can't answer with anything more than an appeal to god, it's better to just be silent.


----------



## 2wheels1love (Mar 7, 2015)

Comment on my opinions I don't care at all. But don't start with the your calling me names because you know darn well I only answered the OP, you started in on me. Now that I fight back I'm the one in the wrong. Foolish foolish trolls. And yes I doubt you are a die hard hunter that I will stand behind. I'm getting back to Bow Hunting this is true but there are other ways of hunting ya know. And been doing it long as I can remember. So just stop already... Give it up... Your buddy has been waiting for you all morning so now that you trolls are reunited I'll leave you to it. Enjoy


----------



## 2wheels1love (Mar 7, 2015)

Billie said:


> Seriously. If you can't answer with anything more than an appeal to god, it's better to just be silent.


And no I don't have a religious bone in my body. Figured I'd let you know before you start on that next.


----------



## Billie (Jul 1, 2004)

2wheels1love said:


> Comment on my opinions I don't care at all. But don't start with the your calling me names because you know darn well I only answered the OP, you started in on me. Now that I fight back I'm the one in the wrong. Foolish foolish trolls. And yes I doubt you are a die hard hunter that I will stand behind. I'm getting back to Bow Hunting this is true but there are other ways of hunting ya know. And been doing it long as I can remember. So just stop already... Give it up... Your buddy has been waiting for you all morning so now that you trolls are reunited I'll leave you to it. Enjoy


 You started with the insults. And you continued with them. If I'm wrong, I'm sure other posters read them. I'll let them decide who started down that path. Or you can report it to a mod and let them decide. You also don't know the definition of "troll" or you would be more careful how you throw that word around. 
You are free to slam anyone else opinions, yet when someone responds, you say you have to "fight back" which is your phrase for "insult and misdirect". 
As for you belief about my hunting experience, that's another opinion you are forming on the basis of what you WANT to believe. I stand by MY statements. I'm sure beyond any doubt that it exceeds yours. I'm glad your getting back into bowhunting. Some of us never left. And I'm aware there are other hunting methods. I've done them all that are legally allowed. I don't know how long you can "remember ", and it really doesn't matter. As I said previously, there is something you can do with you superior attitude. 
As for my "buddy" your refering to, I don't know who that would be. I suppose anyone that can see your posts for what they are would qualify.


----------



## Kansas Bruisers (Dec 14, 2006)

2wheels1love said:


> You are correct I lowerd myself to BigDeer levels and returned fire at him. 100% accurate and I admitted it already. Trolls need a taste of their own meds sometimes. If for nothing else than they just flat deserve it. As my stance on Palmer yea I did have a 1st impression of him, as did everyone. A 1st impression isn't something you choose it's exactly what it's called. A 1st impression. And mine on the dentist wasnt a good one. Just is how he struck me, take it or leave it that's how he comes across to me. As for these other clowns making things up and posting outta context just to get a rise outta people yea they deserve it back 10fold. If someone starts with me I will be there to finish. Trolls need to be trolled once in awhile to try an help stop it in the future.


I don't see anyone trolling you, they are responding to your stance of convicting Palmer without a trial based on his past. Forming an opinion about someone you don't know when allegations are thrown around is one thing, stating it publicly as fact when you don't really know what happened is completely different. Palmer and his family have been threatened with their lives and he had to close his business, all because people want to blindly jump in head first because they heard something on the news.

If this happened to a friend or family member of yours, I'm guessing you wouldn't be so quick to jump on the band wagon.


----------



## decalman (Sep 27, 2011)

Shouldernuke! said:


> I can not beleive that so many of you so called hunters are actually playing right into this attemp by liberal Media and those liberal gun grapping ,weapon hating ,anti hunting Peta loving government officials .Wow you guys just do not get and this sit eis remiss to let these threads that divide hunters and make hunters look stupid stay up for the enjoyment of those liberal grass eating freaks out there that want you all eating bean sprouts and knitting ..I just do not get this at all
> 
> WAKE UP!!!!!!!! All of you its not a Debate w should be having here for any reason ever ..It makes us look stupid and dissorganized .Now there are 4 airlines that will not transport big game game trophies from Africa .Whats next your bows your guns your deer head or a fur coat !! You all should be outraged but not about these hunters but buy the reactions and the fact that "hunters" and business that are paid to transport us and what items we pay for will now disscriminate against us and the Gov has not blinked an eye our you guys either .Wonder why ???LOL
> 
> FYI we just had 5 American heros shot to death by a peice of crap from another place who hates us !!Thats the real News from that week..FYI


Well put nuke!


----------



## ghostgoblin22 (May 3, 2013)

good god can we end these stupid cecil the lion threads


----------



## decalman (Sep 27, 2011)

Ptoid said:


> My concern was there for years as was the concern of the African American students i teach as well as all the decent educated people of this country. I teach a novel set in Mississippi in 1933 and for thirteen years have pointed out that the Miss. State flag still has the confederate flag on it. When asked why this is an issue they would state that the flag represented states that wanted slavery.
> 
> Its really simple but it doesnt fit with the media is liberal brainwashing and obama is evil empire fox news punditry rhetoric nonsense.


How about you give me a dollar for every African American student you have taught and I'll give you $10 for every student you taught that has ever been to Africa. The flag was part of our History. Is our history going to change because some politically correct bs. If they quit teaching about Hitler does that change the facts of what really happened?
Sounds like liberal brainwashing to me.


----------



## Elvis_Is_Dead (Nov 25, 2009)

ghostgoblin22 said:


> good god can we end these stupid cecil the lion threads


Nooooo! Cecil forever!


Hey Billie and 2wheels... I propose you both post your kill pics, and we can all vote on who has killed more critters. 

(I promise not to tell PETA).


For the record... I've actually seen some of Billie's pics and am willing to bet she's done more hunting and has more experience.


----------



## Elvis_Is_Dead (Nov 25, 2009)

In the meantime ya'll can entertain yourselves with this Lion hunting video... and pick it apart.


----------



## Billie (Jul 1, 2004)

Elvis_Is_Dead said:


> Nooooo! Cecil forever!
> 
> 
> Hey Billie and 2wheels... I propose you both post your kill pics, and we can all vote on who has killed more critters.
> ...


Thanks Elvis, but I'm sorry I even answered his condescending post. I hated to even comment on his insult about my hunting experience, but I had a weak moment. I'll play along if he wants to, but we would need another thread, and it would be a lop sided comparison.


----------



## decalman (Sep 27, 2011)

Wonder if while the lion was charging, if they checked to see if it was collared before they started shooting. lol


----------



## KS Bow Hunter (Nov 22, 2013)

Rolo said:


> WTH do you mean finally? Everything I posted as fact has existed since this event unfolded. There's no finally to it...facts a not a finally thing. Are you a politician?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Are you kidding me with this? You my friend need help. If this is your goal in life, to be the IBA of AT, you seriously need some help. This is a public (not private) forum. If you want to talk tough guy PM me your number. Otherwise I'm done with you.


----------



## Mr. Man (Sep 19, 2011)

KS Bow Hunter said:


> Are you kidding me with this? You my friend need help. If this is your goal in life, to be the IBA of AT, you seriously need some help. This is a public (not private) forum. If you want to talk tough guy PM me your number. Otherwise I'm done with you.


Why does he need help? He made better points than you, and articulated them better? If you can answer his questions, answer them. If not, just take the loss, because my gut tells me you lost this debate in a rout.


----------



## Kansas Bruisers (Dec 14, 2006)

KS Bow Hunter said:


> Are you kidding me with this? You my friend need help. If this is your goal in life, to be the IBA of AT, you seriously need some help. This is a public (not private) forum. If you want to talk tough guy PM me your number. Otherwise I'm done with you.


And there it is, the melt down in front of our eyes.

Props to you Rolo, you truly are a master craftsman!


----------



## Elvis_Is_Dead (Nov 25, 2009)

Billie said:


> Thanks Elvis, but I'm sorry I even answered his condescending post. I hated to even comment on his insult about my hunting experience, but I had a weak moment. I'll play along if he wants to, but we would need another thread, and it would be a lop sided comparison.


Well I didn't really expect anyone to take me serious. But then that's never stopped me before! :wink:

When I start to see folks taking themselves way too seriously (no... I'm not saying that about you), it just makes me want to interject some creative humor, so people can actually laugh at themselves once in a while. 

There's never any harm in laughing at ourselves over Cecil the Friendly Lion (CTFL hows that for an acronym?). 

We should all get together over beer and a BBQ (but only if they marinate the lion). It would be GREAT fun!


----------



## Mr. Man (Sep 19, 2011)

Ptoid said:


> No its called education. Check it out sometime. You know history, thinking, words, etc. Try googling the confederacy.
> 
> They don't have to play it. Ask them. And their parents. Do you really think you know what its like to be an African American? How many things have you taken for granted because of your race and gender?
> 
> ...


Share some examples, then. I want to hear what is so terrible about being black in the U.S. now. I don't want examples from the thugs, either. I want some examples from some of your law abiding black students. You know, the kind I work with and get along with every day.


----------



## Mr. Man (Sep 19, 2011)

Kansas Bruisers said:


> And there it is, the melt down in front of our eyes.
> 
> Props to you Rolo, you truly are a master craftsman!


I just made a mental note to never engage Rolo in a debate. Even if I know I'm 110% right. I know my limitations.


----------



## dimbledumble (Jun 25, 2015)

Good ,wholesome, family entertainment right here!!!!:darkbeer:


----------



## rodney482 (Aug 31, 2004)

Game, set, match. 







KS Bow Hunter said:


> Are you kidding me with this? You my friend need help. If this is your goal in life, to be the IBA of AT, you seriously need some help. This is a public (not private) forum. If you want to talk tough guy PM me your number. Otherwise I'm done with you.


----------



## palmatedbuck04 (Nov 26, 2006)

Mr. Man said:


> I just made a mental note to never engage Rolo in a debate. Even if I know I'm 110% right. I know my limitations.


Bingo!!!! His beat downs are priceless!!


----------



## Elvis_Is_Dead (Nov 25, 2009)

palmatedbuck04 said:


> Bingo!!!! His beat downs are priceless!!


Well the man certainly can write. But if it's over 7 lines long...

... my reading skills are up to the task....

... but the problem is....

MY WANING ATTENTION SPAN!


----------



## KS Bow Hunter (Nov 22, 2013)

Kansas Bruisers said:


> And there it is, the melt down in front of our eyes.
> 
> Props to you Rolo, you truly are a master craftsman!


Call it what you like I'm just choosing not to continue this pointless exchange. There is no end to it. If winning an AT debate is ones life goals kudos. I'm just not going to continue to engage....


----------



## KS Bow Hunter (Nov 22, 2013)

Mr. Man said:


> Why does he need help? He made better points than you, and articulated them better? If you can answer his questions, answer them. If not, just take the loss, because my gut tells me you lost this debate in a rout.


I made three mistakes:

- posting too quickly with too little information to start with...train wreck...
- entering into a debate where there will be never be agreement (hunting in general)...
- trying to have a conversation with someone whose sole purpose is to win, not understand...

I've already said I made a mistake on the first two, the only thing you do on the third is extract yourself from the conversation....

But it's ultimately my fault as it was my choice to enter into this pointless and emotionally charged debate in the first place. That's on me.


----------



## Kansas Bruisers (Dec 14, 2006)

KS Bow Hunter said:


> Call it what you like I'm just choosing not to continue this pointless exchange. There is no end to it. If winning an AT debate is ones life goals kudos. I'm just not going to continue to engage....


You could have dropped it if you said what you had to say and were done, instead you challenged him to a fist fight, or a sword fight, or a two gun shootout, or whatever your intentions were with the "Give me your number tough guy."


----------



## palmatedbuck04 (Nov 26, 2006)

KS Bow Hunter said:


> Call it what you like I'm just choosing not to continue this pointless exchange. There is no end to it. If winning an AT debate is ones life goals kudos. I'm just not going to continue to engage....


Its ok to not make excuses and admit defeat to the hands of Rolo.you werent the first and wont be the last.some have to much pride and cant admit defeat and the more you try to debate with him the more he squeezes the life out of you like an anaconda.Its ok brother i found its easier to agree with him even if you disagree with the topic it saves a lot of frustration and energy


----------



## Rolo (Dec 16, 2002)

palmatedbuck04 said:


> Where is Rolo when u need him? The thread has gone stale,same 3-4 guys pissing in each others cherrios.


Well...I was attempting to work a little to keep the mini-me's in shoes...and then I clicked on this thread, and have spent a considerable amount of time attempting to understand who a discussion about the killing of a lion, that really, not that meany people knew about or cared about, turned into a discussion of white privilege, racism, and higher education... 

WTH does that have to do with this...other than of course a diversion from the topic at hand when the argument is worn...I digress... 




KS Bow Hunter said:


> Are you kidding me with this? You my friend need help. If this is your goal in life, to be the IBA of AT, you seriously need some help. This is a public (not private) forum. If you want to talk tough guy PM me your number. Otherwise I'm done with you.


Right...right...good one...Promise?

Who own's this forum? Right...right...exactly as I thought...

Now about that whole personal attack thing..."tough guy"...you're really too much...I just don't understand what is so difficult about answering the questions I asked you...answers that seem to be dependent on your position...whatever that is today...I mean...I did answer yours...and didn't call you any names while doing it...or say that you have a context and comprehension problem either...

It's all so very confusing...


----------



## Rolo (Dec 16, 2002)

palmatedbuck04 said:


> Its ok to not make excuses and admit defeat to the hands of Rolo.you werent the first and wont be the last.some have to much pride and cant admit defeat and the more you try to debate with him the more he squeezes the life out of you like an anaconda.Its ok brother i found its easier to agree with him even if you disagree with the topic it saves a lot of frustration and energy


Got Corn? :cheers:


----------



## KS Bow Hunter (Nov 22, 2013)

Rolo said:


> Well...I was attempting to work a little to keep the mini-me's in shoes...and then I clicked on this thread, and have spent a considerable amount of time attempting to understand who a discussion about the killing of a lion, that really, not that meany people knew about or cared about, turned into a discussion of white privilege, racism, and higher education...
> 
> WTH does that have to do with this...other than of course a diversion from the topic at hand when the argument is worn...I digress...
> 
> ...


Promise


----------



## Rolo (Dec 16, 2002)

KS Bow Hunter said:


> I made three mistakes:
> 
> - posting too quickly with too little information to start with...train wreck...
> - entering into a debate where there will be never be agreement (hunting in general)...
> ...


Actually...had you just admitted that your original post, and the second one were driven by emotion and irrational thought, rather than doubling down on the whole allegedly-context-comprehension-multi national corporation-tough guy thing...actually this is the first post you have made in this thread where you have acknowledged that...well, I'll let you figure out what course it would have taken...

Oh yeah...my emotions, other than several good laughs, have remained at a flat-line level throughout this entire thread...one cannot rationally and reasonably discuss or debate anything when emotions get in the way...


----------



## palmatedbuck04 (Nov 26, 2006)

Rolo said:


> Got Corn? :cheers:


I think you are BAITING me into a debate.i would love to engage,But im closing in on a year return from my lifetime ban and id like to make that anniversary


----------



## Ptoid (Mar 8, 2014)

Mr. Man said:


> Share some examples, then. I want to hear what is so terrible about being black in the U.S. now. I don't want examples from the thugs, either. I want some examples from some of your law abiding black students. You know, the kind I work with and get along with every day.


How would you like to be a black professional looking for a house find one on the computer contact the real estate agent ask if its available be told yes and make an appointment to see it. When you show up black the house is unavailable. Sold since yesterday. Online the house is available for another nine 

A black honors student followed through a drug store while several white students walk around without escorts. 

Getting pulled over for driving while black. Especially with a nice car. 

Or you could ask Freddie Gray or Eric Garner. 

Thats a start. You could do some research of your own with an open mind. 

Interesting use of the word thug. Funny that Dylan Roof was never called that. Also funny how cordial his arrest was.


----------



## Rolo (Dec 16, 2002)

palmatedbuck04 said:


> I think you are BAITING me into a debate.i would love to engage,But im closing in on a year return from my lifetime ban and id like to make that anniversary


Challenge? :nyah:

But in all seriousness...he one thing remaining that I really want to know is whether it is:

CEE-cil 

or,

Ces-il.

Anyone know?


----------



## Kansas Bruisers (Dec 14, 2006)

Every time I watch something about it on the news, they call him Cee-cil. I'm just going to assume that means it's really Ces-il.


----------



## Rolo (Dec 16, 2002)

Kansas Bruisers said:


> Every time I watch something about it on the news, they call him Cee-cil. I'm just going to assume that means it's really Ces-il.


I think Ces-il has a bigger ring of nobility and sophistication to it...so I'm good with that. :darkbeer:


----------



## Elvis_Is_Dead (Nov 25, 2009)

Rolo said:


> Challenge? :nyah:
> 
> But in all seriousness...he one thing remaining that I really want to know is whether it is:
> 
> ...


Gonna have to wait for "CECIL: The Movie" to really know for sure.
(Oh yeah... it's coming for sure)


----------



## Chris1ny (Oct 23, 2006)

Elvis_Is_Dead said:


> Gonna have to wait for "CECIL: The Movie" to really know for sure.
> (Oh yeah... it's coming for sure)


I'm for one is not going to watch that movie. Going to spent my money elsewhere.


----------



## Billie (Jul 1, 2004)

Ptoid said:


> How would you like to be a black professional looking for a house find one on the computer contact the real estate agent ask if its available be told yes and make an appointment to see it. When you show up black the house is unavailable. Sold since yesterday. Online the house is available for another nine
> 
> A black honors student followed through a drug store while several white students walk around without escorts.
> 
> ...


That black house shopper can sue the day lights out of that real estate agent for commuting a FEDERAL crime. And that agent won't be selling anymore houses. 
Dylan roof has been called much more than thug. Cordial arrest? Did he fight or pull a gun? No. He gave it up like the little biatch he is. Your comparisons don't work. And that's all for another thread anyway.


----------



## OhWell (Aug 21, 2013)

DougKMN said:


> I disagree. It's his responsibility as the Hunter to ensure he knows the laws, and that they are followed.


I have to agree. Last fall I broke a law regarding a hunting dog on private and posted property. I did not harm the dog but removing the collar to hand off to the sheriff as evidence of trespassing was a crime. That case just got settled yesterday. I did what they said I did and plead guilty. I had no idea it was a law in this particular county (This is the only county in the state to have this law) None the less I was guilty. As hunters we are responsible to know the regulations for the areas we hunt.

I was upset to hear about this whole mess but not necessarily about someone hunting a lion but more so with how the hunt was conducted. Again, this is based on information I could find to read. Keep in mind I get even more upset when people are abused or murdered. I don't care for senseless killing of any kind. Obviously we all have a different view of what senseless killing is but I am sure there is some common ground we can all stand on.

I am really surprised nobody jumped on the media for calling a cross bow hunter and bow hunter.........LOL


----------



## Rolo (Dec 16, 2002)

Elvis_Is_Dead said:


> Gonna have to wait for "CECIL: The Movie" to really know for sure.
> (Oh yeah... it's coming for sure)


Mark my words...the Movie will be "The Lion King 2" and Simba will take on the role of Cecil...cross generational symbolism...

It's about time Disney reinvent the story of Bambi...


----------



## TNMAN (Oct 6, 2009)

Rolo said:


> Challenge? :nyah:
> 
> But in all seriousness...he one thing remaining that I really want to know is whether it is:
> 
> ...


Since Rhodesia was named after Cecil Rhodes, we might assume that the lion was named after him. A quick trip to the oxford dictionary tells us ---> 

http://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/pronunciation/english/cecil-rhodes

And I won't debate it.


----------



## ahunter55 (Aug 17, 2009)

I just read an article TODAY written by a person IN AFRICA about this. The author asked what the screamers were going to do once the dentist was hanged along with the others involved. The author went into DETAIL of all the good HUNTERS do by PAYING thousands to hunt & GIVING the locals the meat (required by law). Also other funds that go into the local economy. When AFRICANS were asked about the outrage over this lion being killed, they had no idea such an outcry was happening & even said why. None seemed to even know of Cecil the Lion. Locals also said, where is the outcry for the humans killed by these same Lions & Elephants. They went on to say Lions, Elephants & tons of game are killed by poachers DAILY & this was a real problem, not a legal licensed hunter from any country. Government is so corrupt that poaching is rampant & WILL be the demise of wild game in Africa. The article was on my facebook news feed & shared by a person from across the pond. Very interesting & enlightening even for me, a person on the side of the Dr..


----------



## namozine (Mar 15, 2013)

Rolo said:


> Mark my words...the Movie will be "The Lion King 2" and Simba will take on the role of Cecil...cross generational symbolism...
> 
> It's about time Disney reinvent the story of Bambi...


Possibly even a transgendered Bambi ??? Lol !!!


----------



## ahunter55 (Aug 17, 2009)

good article from a person that lives in Africa. I also just read another written by another person from rthere. No one seems to know Cecil locally but AMERICAN animal rights people rthat have never been there do. Ironic. I hope this article opens.


----------



## spencer12 (Dec 21, 2009)

Honestly guy's this is what The United States has come to. I have a few "friends" I guess I could call them, from south america to London. Smart fellows to. This nation is no longer the land of the free it's the land of give me for free. The times of self pride and decency are gone. To put the blame on my generations parent's are appalling. Im in the 20-30 age group. In ww2 our entire nation black, white, hispanics, asians stormed beaches side by side. Died by the hundreds of thousands on there own free will. For a cause for the betterment of a country. They literally banded an entire nation together. 1 team 1 goal. Freedom. My foreign friends speak to me truthfully not to hurt but to ask why? How could that nation the world knew then, have become this. We are a laughing stock to an entire foreign world. We no longer ask ourselves how can I help this man, rather what can I get from him. Our government treats us as renewable resources. Want to do some highly illegal government tactics? Confuse the idiots tell them what they want to hear, theyll listen, and theyll follow. It's sickening this trophy lion hunt has caused such a commotion over the past couple weeks. Wonder what else "couldnt make it to the top of the headlines". 

All that being said, first I have no problems with safari hunts I know how they work and the benefits they bring. But honestly I hope they ban all lion hunting in the entire country. Please do it, It's what hundreds of thousands of people petitioned for extradiction and to see a hunter and i quote "Hung for all to see" So you know what Africa I say ban it ban every last bit of safari hunting you have. And in 10 years when your corrupt, bumf*ck of a Government see's no more of this U.S. currency, Euros, or Pounds well see how much your "Special wildlife groups" have improved. Just keep giving everyone what they want. Keep watching your facebook posts and twitter "facts" Poor cecil. Who half of zimbabwe could give to s**** about. Take away those safaris the price for those rare animals are going up on the black market. Without your safari hunts Zimb. How do you plan on supplying the neccesary manpower to patrol these parks from the rebel poachers? Ah well I'm sure you all have thought of this. 

The fact is no one cares. No one. It's a two week long debate over a dead animal. People kill things, all the time please people for the love of god focus on America. Your home. This is being blown way over the top the Zimbabwean govt cannot wait to get their hands on all these charities and "save the lion bucks" you ignortant few are shelling out. I'm sure thatll find its way straight to the presrve. Thats all I got.


----------



## turkeyhunter60 (Apr 19, 2010)

palmatedbuck04 said:


> Where is Rolo when u need him? The thread has gone stale,same 3-4 guys pissing in each others cherrios.


He died and the Hogs ate him....


----------



## JWaltrip (Dec 30, 2006)

Let's pray that the inhuman dentist gets what's his. R.i.p. Cecil you are in a better place. You will be missed.

First it was Bambi and now Cecil. When will it end?


----------



## Adam63412 (Dec 18, 2013)

wow... Crazy world, how did we ever get to be this way, just to think hunting used to be a normal part of our everyday existence?
Love how media and all the antis are poor this, poor that, poor innocent animals. These animals dont give a **** about them nature is a b****, that lion cares about two things and that is his ladies and his next meal but this is how detached from the natural world and reality we as a species have become, we live in these crowded over urbanized places where going to the outlet mall or frozen yogurt stand is the only kind of relationship they have with the outdoors and think the nature is some kind of soft cuddly teddy bear. It disgust me, let these folks go out into the wild with these animals and see how cuddly they think they are, more people are killed in Africa by lions in a year than lions killed by people and this is the response. I have no desire to go to Africa, we have more than enough big game animals here to satisfy my needs but if people wanna spend the money let them, if they arent going to be hunted they are going to be poached till extinction anyway.


----------



## archerbaldguy (Dec 2, 2014)

Ok JWaltrip has to be trolling.


----------



## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

Another epic thread provided for you by the Zapster.....:darkbeer:


:lol:


----------



## 2wheels1love (Mar 7, 2015)

Hello all just an FYI, been in Ohio at a training seminar for work and was on AT here and there through out the last wk but also so was my roommates little brother who's staying with us while he's dealing with some stuff. Gave him my password for Amazon to order something and he figured out after a few drinks that I (very foolishly) use the same password for everything. Including online banking and all 4 online forums I belong to. So I have some cleaning up to do. I didn't read through this entire thread it's way way to long but saw the most resent activity and must apologize for this little turds actions and comments (this is no kid he's 28yrs old believe it or not) so to whomever he offended I again apologize. I only saw 2names (a billy and someone with a basketball player avatar) but to anyone else my deepest apologies. He unfortunately does feel the way he came across about hunting he gives me bs all the time about it and thought he was being funny. I will handle him no doubt about it. I was suspended from a great Motorcycle forum Ive belonged to for over 10yrs due to his screwing around yesterday and in the process of trying to get ahold of someone about it. Unbelievable, I'm very humiliated. Also owe Amazon quite a bit of money now as well, Going to kill this kid! BTW, I've actually had Lion meat it's absolutely delicious when prepared properly  

(not my hunt, fathers friend brought some back yrs ago)


----------



## Billie (Jul 1, 2004)

2wheels1love said:


> Hello all just an FYI, been in Ohio at a training seminar for work and was on AT here and there through out the last wk but also so was my roommates little brother who's staying with us while he's dealing with some stuff. Gave him my password for Amazon to order something and he figured out after a few drinks that I (very foolishly) use the same password for everything. Including online banking and all 4 online forums I belong to. So I have some cleaning up to do. I didn't read through this entire thread it's way way to long but saw the most resent activity and must apologize for this little turds actions and comments (this is no kid he's 28yrs old believe it or not) so to whomever he offended I again apologize. I only saw 2names (a billy and someone with a basketball player avatar) but to anyone else my deepest apologies. He unfortunately does feel the way he came across about hunting he gives me bs all the time about it and thought he was being funny. I will handle him no doubt about it. I was suspended from a great Motorcycle forum Ive belonged to for over 10yrs due to his screwing around yesterday and in the process of trying to get ahold of someone about it. Unbelievable, I'm very humiliated. Also owe Amazon quite a bit of money now as well, Going to kill this kid! BTW, I've actually had Lion meat it's absolutely delicious when prepared properly
> 
> (not my hunt, fathers friend brought some back yrs ago)


Chit happens.


----------



## GO G.W. (Oct 23, 2004)

spencer12 said:


> Honestly guy's this is what The United States has come to. I have a few "friends" I guess I could call them, from south america to London. Smart fellows to. This nation is no longer the land of the free it's the land of give me for free. The times of self pride and decency are gone. To put the blame on my generations parent's are appalling. Im in the 20-30 age group. In ww2 our entire nation black, white, hispanics, asians stormed beaches side by side. Died by the hundreds of thousands on there own free will. For a cause for the betterment of a country. They literally banded an entire nation together. 1 team 1 goal. Freedom. My foreign friends speak to me truthfully not to hurt but to ask why? How could that nation the world knew then, have become this. We are a laughing stock to an entire foreign world. We no longer ask ourselves how can I help this man, rather what can I get from him. Our government treats us as renewable resources. Want to do some highly illegal government tactics? Confuse the idiots tell them what they want to hear, theyll listen, and theyll follow. It's sickening this trophy lion hunt has caused such a commotion over the past couple weeks. Wonder what else "couldnt make it to the top of the headlines".
> 
> All that being said, first I have no problems with safari hunts I know how they work and the benefits they bring. But honestly I hope they ban all lion hunting in the entire country. Please do it, It's what hundreds of thousands of people petitioned for extradiction and to see a hunter and i quote "Hung for all to see" So you know what Africa I say ban it ban every last bit of safari hunting you have. And in 10 years when your corrupt, bumf*ck of a Government see's no more of this U.S. currency, Euros, or Pounds well see how much your "Special wildlife groups" have improved. Just keep giving everyone what they want. Keep watching your facebook posts and twitter "facts" Poor cecil. Who half of zimbabwe could give to s**** about. Take away those safaris the price for those rare animals are going up on the black market. Without your safari hunts Zimb. How do you plan on supplying the neccesary manpower to patrol these parks from the rebel poachers? Ah well I'm sure you all have thought of this.
> 
> The fact is no one cares. No one. It's a two week long debate over a dead animal. People kill things, all the time please people for the love of god focus on America. Your home. This is being blown way over the top the Zimbabwean govt cannot wait to get their hands on all these charities and "save the lion bucks" you ignortant few are shelling out. I'm sure thatll find its way straight to the presrve. Thats all I got.


All the fuss is not coming from Zimbabwe, as you stated they don't care. For them it brings in tons of cash and food for their poor. This is home grown propaganda garbage; it is only Americans who are screaming about this big in-justice. It is only Americans who value the life of a lion over the life of a person and would say to "hang" a person over something that may or may not have been illegal.


----------



## chevman (Nov 3, 2006)

JWaltrip said:


> Let's pray that the inhuman dentist gets what's his. R.i.p. Cecil you are in a better place. You will be missed.
> 
> First it was Bambi and now Cecil. When will it end?


What a suzie. This is a hunting site. You belong on a site where they talk about flowers or little kittens. Buzz Off!


----------



## BigDeer (Aug 9, 2005)

2wheels1love said:


> Hello all just an FYI, been in Ohio at a training seminar for work and was on AT here and there through out the last wk but also so was my roommates little brother who's staying with us while he's dealing with some stuff. Gave him my password for Amazon to order something and he figured out after a few drinks that I (very foolishly) use the same password for everything. Including online banking and all 4 online forums I belong to. So I have some cleaning up to do. I didn't read through this entire thread it's way way to long but saw the most resent activity and must apologize for this little turds actions and comments (this is no kid he's 28yrs old believe it or not) so to whomever he offended I again apologize. I only saw 2names (a billy and someone with a basketball player avatar) but to anyone else my deepest apologies. He unfortunately does feel the way he came across about hunting he gives me bs all the time about it and thought he was being funny. I will handle him no doubt about it. I was suspended from a great Motorcycle forum Ive belonged to for over 10yrs due to his screwing around yesterday and in the process of trying to get ahold of someone about it. Unbelievable, I'm very humiliated. Also owe Amazon quite a bit of money now as well, Going to kill this kid! BTW, I've actually had Lion meat it's absolutely delicious when prepared properly
> 
> (not my hunt, fathers friend brought some back yrs ago)


Passed the time at work watching servers..no worries


----------



## Billie (Jul 1, 2004)

JWaltrip said:


> Let's pray that the inhuman dentist gets what's his. R.i.p. Cecil you are in a better place. You will be missed.
> 
> First it was Bambi and now Cecil. When will it end?


----------



## MonsterMadness (Sep 1, 2009)

And all this time I thought Cecil was a Tiger, interesting...


----------



## DeerCook (Jan 23, 2006)

JWaltrip said:


> Let's pray that the inhuman dentist gets what's his. R.i.p. Cecil you are in a better place. You will be missed.
> 
> First it was Bambi and now Cecil. When will it end?



Maybe if you would educate yourself a little bit you wouldn't be such a pansy. Oh almost forgot, PETA people wont do that..........


----------



## irishhacker (Sep 4, 2011)

the story is over.. the media lied.. the sheep believed it..
Can we close these worthless threads now?


----------



## storm5 (Nov 5, 2007)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XoT-5Pu1gEE


----------



## bg305 (Nov 27, 2011)




----------



## Kansas Bruisers (Dec 14, 2006)

Interviewed yesterday by local Zimbabwe news, the US ambassador to Zimbabwe was asked about Cecil the Lion and Dr. Palmer. Ambassador Bruce Wharten said America was waiting for official communication from the Zimbabwean Government relating to the extradition of the culprit.

Zimbabwe still hasn't charged Palmer with a crime.


----------



## 2wheels1love (Mar 7, 2015)

ridgehunter70 said:


> Lol. If there were laws against stupidity, 90% of at would have to leave. She lives in her own little world and connot stand to be put in her place. Shes a ex leo and thats her problem with me. I kept putting the truth about some on the a and e section and I could almost smell her about to blow a gasket. I think its funny.


Sorry RidgeHunter I don't know anyone here enough to be commenting on their intelligence and certainly would not make any negative statements against any LEO, would never support anyone who does. I've got friends and family who are LEO and I take that very seriously. It's a shame what happened to this thread as its a pretty serious thing for the hunting community as a whole. Be nice if we could all stay as a whole despite some difference in opinion on the whole matter.


----------



## Billie (Jul 1, 2004)

Kansas Bruisers said:


> Interviewed yesterday by local Zimbabwe news, the US ambassador to Zimbabwe was asked about Cecil the Lion and Dr. Palmer. Ambassador Bruce Wharten said America was waiting for official communication from the Zimbabwean Government relating to the extradition of the culprit.
> 
> Zimbabwe still hasn't charged Palmer with a crime.


Like myself and many others have reported, the ZIM government has made no attempt to speak to the dentist, nor have they requested our state dept. To contact him. The only report regarding extradition came from the environmental minister voicing her personal opinion that he should be charged for hunting with a BOW, which she thought, incorrectly, was illegal to use in her country. HE has contacted the state dept, and the US FWS and volunteered to assist them with any investigation.


----------



## bg305 (Nov 27, 2011)

How could they charge him? This was a guided hunt not an OTC DIY hunt. All responsibility is on the guide, from permits to the animal shot. If you book a hunt in Africa and want to shoot animals outside of the package you purchased you have to ask the guide. He will politely tell you that animal right there is an extra $xxxx. It's not open season over there.


----------



## Billie (Jul 1, 2004)

bg305 said:


> How could they charge him? This was a guided hunt not an OTC DIY hunt. All responsibility is on the guide, from permits to the animal shot. If you book a hunt in Africa and want to shoot animals outside of the package you purchased you have to ask the guide. He will politely tell you that animal right there is an extra $xxxx. It's not open season over there.


I agree. The laws there are much different than here. The PH is in charge of permits and tags.


----------



## hockeyman474 (Jan 7, 2015)

Side note: surprised this thread is still going and has so many pages/views.


----------



## Mr. Man (Sep 19, 2011)

OhWell said:


> I have to agree. Last fall I broke a law regarding a hunting dog on private and posted property. I did not harm the dog but removing the collar to hand off to the sheriff as evidence of trespassing was a crime. That case just got settled yesterday. I did what they said I did and plead guilty. I had no idea it was a law in this particular county (This is the only county in the state to have this law) None the less I was guilty. As hunters we are responsible to know the regulations for the areas we hunt.
> 
> I was upset to hear about this whole mess but not necessarily about someone hunting a lion but more so with how the hunt was conducted. Again, this is based on information I could find to read. Keep in mind I get even more upset when people are abused or murdered. I don't care for senseless killing of any kind. Obviously we all have a different view of what senseless killing is but I am sure there is some common ground we can all stand on.
> 
> I am really surprised nobody jumped on the media for calling a cross bow hunter and bow hunter.........LOL


If you book a hunt in Africa, you have no responsibility to know the game laws. You do what the guide tells you to do. You can't hunt without a guide, therefore you have to rely on their word. I would like to see the people that say the dentist should have known the laws and regulations for Zimbabwe actually find them themselves and post them up, and then find the legal areas to hunt and post up the property boundaries where hunting is permissible. I'll check back in a month or two to see how it's going. As a by the way, I've yet to see one piece of indisputable evidence that the hunt was illegal to start with.


----------



## irishhacker (Sep 4, 2011)

Mr. Man said:


> If you book a hunt in Africa, you have no responsibility to know the game laws. You do what the guide tells you to do. You can't hunt without a guide, therefore you have to rely on their word. I would like to see the people that say the dentist should have known the laws and regulations for Zimbabwe actually find them themselves and post them up, and then find the legal areas to hunt and post up the property boundaries where hunting is permissible. I'll check back in a month or two to see how it's going. As a by the way, I've yet to see one piece of indisputable evidence that the hunt was illegal to start with.


And you wont see any evidence.. The media reports have already been proven false. The whole thing regarding any legality issues was completely made up by the media.


----------



## JokersEvilWay (Sep 1, 2014)

Gary the Gazelle was one of Cecils' unfortunate victims. What about Gary no Justice for Gary?


----------



## Billie (Jul 1, 2004)

2wheels1love said:


> Sorry RidgeHunter I don't know anyone here enough to be commenting on their intelligence and certainly would not make any negative statements against any LEO, would never support anyone who does. I've got friends and family who are LEO and I take that very seriously. It's a shame what happened to this thread as its a pretty serious thing for the hunting community as a whole. Be nice if we could all stay as a whole despite some difference in opinion on the whole matter.


Well said.


----------



## joejoeh (Sep 12, 2014)

Read an article yesterday written by a guy from a village near the place this Lion was killed. He went on to say how happy he was that the lion was killed and that these Americans that are throwing a tantrum about it have no idea what kind of hell these lions bring to the people that live in those regions. Imagine hiding inside because a giant cat is eating people.......Grow up America worry about your own problems and be thankful you don't have to worry about getting your face eaten off by a giant cat.


----------



## calebhannah89 (Apr 24, 2015)

Like Ferguson all over ... Wish people could actually care about real problems like our economy and social security. Blows my mind.


----------



## Mr. Man (Sep 19, 2011)

joejoeh said:


> Read an article yesterday written by a guy from a village near the place this Lion was killed. He went on to say how happy he was that the lion was killed and that these Americans that are throwing a tantrum about it have no idea what kind of hell these lions bring to the people that live in those regions. Imagine hiding inside because a giant cat is eating people.......Grow up America worry about your own problems and be thankful you don't have to worry about getting your face eaten off by a giant cat.


I read that. You should have read the thousands of comments on the article. 

General gist:

Even though you're from there, you have no idea what you're talking about.

If you were bothered by the lions attacking people and livestock, you should all move closer to towns and give the lions back their land to roam. 

No intelligent person would or should hunt an animal for a trophy in present times, because it's cruel, and we have evolved beyond such barbaric activity, no matter how much good hunter's dollars bring to the villages over there.

A person who would kill any animal is a simple murderer.



About one out of ten comments agreed with the author.


----------



## dhom (Jun 10, 2008)

The ironic thing for me is that over the past 4 days the only place I have seen anything about Cecil is right here on AT. I watch the local morning news and nada.


----------



## ridgehunter70 (Sep 30, 2012)

calebhannah89 said:


> Like Ferguson all over ... Wish people could actually care about real problems like our economy and social security. Blows my mind.


That would make too much sense.


----------



## calebhannah89 (Apr 24, 2015)

Mr. Man said:


> I read that. You should have read the thousands of comments on the article.
> 
> General gist:
> 
> ...


For real ? Anyone that would kill any animal is a murderer... Your ****in clueless... Have u ever hear about this thing called the Islamic state ... God worry about real ****


----------



## Mr. Man (Sep 19, 2011)

calebhannah89 said:


> For real ? Anyone that would kill any animal is a murderer... Your ****in clueless... Have u ever hear about this thing called the Islamic state ... God worry about real ****


Are you stupid? I was posting about comments left online about the article.


----------



## calebhannah89 (Apr 24, 2015)

Oh lol


----------



## Adam63412 (Dec 18, 2013)

haha ironic that there was a dentist in Florida pulling kids teeth on purpose to cash in on insurance bonuses along with abusing them, he is still in practice and never made news outside of local news and this guy gets this treatment.... Big joke


----------



## H20fwler (Apr 1, 2014)

This complete half truth fiasco got more traction here than on some of the anti hunting sites...slow week for AT.

We need another OB or Rompala thread to wind us up I guess.


----------



## bucco921 (Jan 2, 2012)

H20fwler said:


> This complete half truth fiasco got more traction here than on some of the anti hunting sites...slow week for AT.
> 
> We need another OB or Rompala thread to wind us up I guess.


Whatever became of OG? I've been off of here for a while.


----------



## dimbledumble (Jun 25, 2015)

Amazing!!!!


----------



## Mr. Man (Sep 19, 2011)

H20fwler said:


> This complete half truth fiasco got more traction here than on some of the anti hunting sites...slow week for AT.
> 
> We need another OB or Rompala thread to wind us up I guess.


It should get more traction. It's led to direct action against hunters by national governments and major corporations here in the U.S. People are too stupid to realize this whole thing isn't about Cecil or the dentist, and never was. They were just pawns to be used for leverage in the anti-hunting movement.


----------



## bg305 (Nov 27, 2011)

Mr. Man said:


> It should get more traction. It's led to direct action against hunters by national governments and major corporations here in the U.S. People are too stupid to realize this whole thing isn't about Cecil or the dentist, and never was. They were just pawns to be used for leverage in the anti-hunting movement.


I hope none of you are really believing that this is some sort of conspiracy against outdoors men. There is no way that HUNTING or FISHING will ever be banned. It's just not possible to take an annual 76 BILLION out of our economy. That's right we represent 76 BILLION DOLLARS ANNUALLY TO THE ECONOMY OF THIS COUNTRY! Let the antis b!tch and moan all they want it's not happening. Bottom line. Now get out there hunt and fish all you want. 



http://www.nssf.org/PDF/research/bright stars of the economy.pdf

Without hunters and anglers, our economy would be a lot smaller. $76 billion smaller, in fact. That’s how much they spend each year on their passion for the outdoors. If a single corporation grossed as much as hunters and anglers spend, it would be among America’s 20 largest, ahead of Target, Costco and AT&T. But hunters' and anglers’ influence goes even further. They create an economic “ripple effect” of $192 billion a year. They keep people working: not just in typical hunting and fishing jobs, but also in gas stations, retail, restaurants and hotels throughout every state and congressional district of the USA.


----------



## Ptoid (Mar 8, 2014)

Funny this thread started with something about bareshaft tuning i think


----------



## Billie (Jul 1, 2004)

bg305 said:


> I hope none of you are really believing that this is some sort of conspiracy against outdoors men. There is no way that HUNTING or FISHING will ever be banned. It's just not possible to take an annual 76 BILLION out of our economy. That's right we represent 76 BILLION DOLLARS ANNUALLY TO THE ECONOMY OF THIS COUNTRY! Let the antis b!tch and moan all they want it's not happening. Bottom line. Now get out there hunt and fish all you want.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yet you can stop it with one vote on a ballot. HSUS Has spent, and will spend millions to get a vote on the ballot in Maine to stop bear hunting. They did it last year, and say they will do it until they win, and the urban populations that DONT hunt, and outnumber the rural population can vote beat hunting out at any time. The only reason it didn't pass last year was low voter interest. This kind of Crap will get them voting, and it could be a bad year for hunters in Maine, and antis don't give a damn if businesses close or people loose jobs.


----------



## 206Moose (Apr 29, 2007)

calebhannah89 said:


> Like Ferguson all over ... Wish people could actually care about real problems like our economy and social security. Blows my mind.


So are you saying that story I heard about Cecil having his hands up and getting shot in the back was a lie.


----------



## Darrens6601 (Jul 16, 2015)

Billie said:


> Yet you can stop it with one vote on a ballot. HSUS Has spent, and will spend millions to get a vote on the ballot in Maine to stop bear hunting. They did it last year, and say they will do it until they win, and the urban populations that DONT hunt, and outnumber the rural population can vote beat hunting out at any time. The only reason it didn't pass last year was low voter interest. This kind of Crap will get them voting, and it could be a bad year for hunters in Maine, and antis don't give a damn if businesses close or people loose jobs.


Michigan hunters lost on hunting wolfs in the U. P. These idiots are perfectly content with taking baby steps.


----------



## Darrens6601 (Jul 16, 2015)




----------



## 2wheels1love (Mar 7, 2015)

Darrens6601 said:


>


Lol... That's Fantastic


----------



## bg305 (Nov 27, 2011)

Billie said:


> Yet you can stop it with one vote on a ballot. HSUS Has spent, and will spend millions to get a vote on the ballot in Maine to stop bear hunting. They did it last year, and say they will do it until they win, and the urban populations that DONT hunt, and outnumber the rural population can vote beat hunting out at any time. The only reason it didn't pass last year was low voter interest. This kind of Crap will get them voting, and it could be a bad year for hunters in Maine, and antis don't give a damn if businesses close or people loose jobs.





Darrens6601 said:


> Michigan hunters lost on hunting wolfs in the U. P. These idiots are perfectly content with taking baby steps.


Just take a second to think what pulling 268 BILLION DOLLARS out of our already weak economy would do. Think of all the pro shops,outfitters,leased/purchased land,hotels,bush pilots,marinas,charter operations and so on. Let's just take 1 states revenue from last year, say Colorado....

Combined with fishing, Colorado hunting recreation is a $2.8 billion economic driver, according to the report by Southwick Associates, commissioned by Colorado Parks and Wildlife and published in February. Hunting and fishing is the second-largest tourism industry in Colorado, trailing only skiing.

This is a BILLION DOLLAR industry that cannot be stopped. It would bankrupt this state and the rest if recreational hunting/fishing where outlawed. The next thing Colorado would need to do is legalize cocaine and heroin to make up the losses. Forget about it.


----------



## bucco921 (Jan 2, 2012)

I was trying my best to let this thread die......

BUT you guys who think hunting can't be stopped are delusional or naive. 

MUCH, MUCH, MUCH bigger industries have been killed off in this country by idiots with an agenda and cash to push that agenda.

Guess what the HSUS and PETA are full of??? Cash, idiots, and agendas.

Look over the course of your life time at all the little hunting rights that have been stripped from people in this country (if it hasn't happened in your state be grateful).

Sure it "probably" won't happen in your life time if you're a middle aged man or woman, but what about your kids and grand kids?


----------



## palmatedbuck04 (Nov 26, 2006)

bg305 said:


> Just take a second to think what pulling 268 BILLION DOLLARS out of our already weak economy would do. Think of all the pro shops,outfitters,leased/purchased land,hotels,bush pilots,marinas,charter operations and so on. Let's just take 1 states revenue from last year, say Colorado....
> 
> Combined with fishing, Colorado hunting recreation is a $2.8 billion economic driver, according to the report by Southwick Associates, commissioned by Colorado Parks and Wildlife and published in February. Hunting and fishing is the second-largest tourism industry in Colorado, trailing only skiing.
> 
> This is a BILLION DOLLAR industry that cannot be stopped. It would bankrupt this state and the rest if recreational hunting/fishing where outlawed. The next thing Colorado would need to do is legalize cocaine and heroin to make up the losses. Forget about it.


Absolutely correct!!! Hunting isnt going anywhere


----------



## Darrens6601 (Jul 16, 2015)

bucco921 said:


> I was trying my best to let this thread die......
> 
> BUT you guys who think hunting can't be stopped are delusional or naive.
> 
> ...


Exactly!!!!!!!! That's what I'm saying these pukes are fine with baby steps . They are perfectly content with a little here a little there . Claiming huge victories making up lies and getting tons of donations to finance the next little win.


----------



## namozine (Mar 15, 2013)

Anybody who can look at the changes in this country in the last 10 and still think that ANYTHING is impossible is not thinking clearly...


----------



## bg305 (Nov 27, 2011)

bucco921 said:


> I was trying my best to let this thread die......
> 
> BUT you guys who think hunting can't be stopped are delusional or naive.
> 
> ...


Give me the FACTS. Please name a few industries bigger than hunting/fishing(268 BILLION ANNUALLY).


----------



## Darrens6601 (Jul 16, 2015)

palmatedbuck04 said:


> Absolutely correct!!! Hunting isnt going anywhere


Probably not deer hunting but you may not be able to bear hunt in Maine next year you can't hunt wolves in michigans U.P. A lot of states ban dove hunting . All these were stopped because groups like the hsus and peta got them on a ballot for a vote.


----------



## COArrow (Nov 24, 2013)

bg305 said:


> Give me the FACTS. Please name a few industries bigger than hunting/fishing(268 BILLION ANNUALLY).


Drugs both legal and illegal Honestly 268 billion is small. Hunters are about 5% of the US, once you start realize we are minority we will start lose less.


----------



## bucco921 (Jan 2, 2012)

COArrow said:


> Drugs both legal and illegal Honestly 268 billion is small. Hunters are about 5% of the US, once you start realize we are minority we will start lose less.


Thanks. 

268B really isn't that much. My employer generated 30B last year and we are far from the biggest player in our industry. 

There are plenty of "facts" to be found with a simple google search. I'm going fishing.


----------



## COArrow (Nov 24, 2013)

bucco921 said:


> Thanks.
> 
> 268B really isn't that much. My employer generated 30B last year and we are far from the biggest player in our industry.
> 
> There are plenty of "facts" to be found with a simple google search. I'm going fishing.


I was agreeing, 268B is not a big industry. Good luck fishing.


----------



## Billie (Jul 1, 2004)

bg305 said:


> Give me the FACTS. Please name a few industries bigger than hunting/fishing(268 BILLION ANNUALLY).


How many you need me to name? Auto industry is at 700 billion, Exxon is 360 billion, telecommunications is 400 billion, one single computer company is worth a trillion. And those are all of One industry. The hunting industry is made up of thousands of different industries, each one dependent on the PUBLIC to allow it to operate. From gun dealers to bow builders, ammo manufacturers, clothing, boots, everything we use. All of that can be individually put out of business by public opinions . Individually they are ALL vulnerable. Law suites, government regs, antigun laws, stupid hunting laws are ALL dependent on the PUBLIC. This lasted incident with a single lion hunt shows how quickly the "public" will turn on hunters.
You say they can't stop hunting. They already are in areas of urban populations. Many places. You can't hunt bears by baiting, you can't lion hunt, or dove hunt in areas full of bears , lions, and doves. You know why? Because the PUBLIC voted on it. And it happens every year all across the US. Just cause you don't see it, or bother to find out , doesn't mean it's not happening.


----------



## bucco921 (Jan 2, 2012)

COArrow said:


> I was agreeing, 268B is not a big industry. Good luck fishing.


I know, that's why I thanked you.:thumbs_up

Just for some perspective here, Walmart-one player in their industry, almost doubled what our ENTIRE industry generated last year.


----------



## jhicks54 (Jan 8, 2011)

It only takes one shrewd politician or media outlet to fool thousands of voting sheep. Just release the right 'facts' in the necessary order. Like someone already pointed out, we drink the Kool-Aid in small doses...

Those of you who think hunting is big enough that it won't be stopped, consider whether you've ever thought, "well that hunting law just doesn't make any sense!". It starts there....


----------



## Billie (Jul 1, 2004)

There was no mountain lion attacks in California for 76 years. The public of California voted a complete state wide ban on ALL mountain lion hunting "FOREVER" regardless of what the wildlife biologists recommend. Now, mountain lions are killing people. But the law as written will never allow hunting them again, even though attacks are increasing. THATS how antihunting groups operate. They appeal to voters that never step in the woods.


----------



## palmatedbuck04 (Nov 26, 2006)

Billie said:


> There was no mountain lion attacks in California for 76 years. The public of California voted a complete state wide ban on ALL mountain lion hunting "FOREVER" regardless of what the wildlife biologists recommend. Now, mountain lions are killing people. But the law as written will never allow hunting them again, even though attacks are increasing. THATS how antihunting groups operate. They appeal to voters that never step in the woods.
> View attachment 2626353


Maybe there wasnt a high lion population to sustain a hujting season.you could get attacked by a rogue lion in any western state i suppose


----------



## Billie (Jul 1, 2004)

palmatedbuck04 said:


> Maybe there wasnt a high lion population to sustain a hujting season.you could get attacked by a rogue lion in any western state i suppose


In the 80's lions became protected in California . The numbers came back to levels were biologists advocated a season be bought back . THAT got the PETA and HSUS involved. They didn't spend a dime on conservation, but spent 2 million on TV adds, and a couple more in newspaper advertisements in SF, LA, and Sam Diego. When it came to a vote, lion hunting was done . Now lions are decimating deer herds and eating dogs in the suburbs. They are dragging toddlers out of yards. Conservationists brought them back using Pittman Robinson funds provided by hunters. Anti hunters banned lion hunting in California forever. It can be done. One state at a time. Look at bear hunting in maine. That's coming next.


----------



## Fulldraw1972 (Jan 6, 2012)

There is no wolf hunting allowed in Mn because of the bunny huggers. There is no moose hunt either because the population is too low. They did a 2 year study on what was killing the moose. They had every excuse there was except wolves. Guess what they found out was killing the moose. Yep you guessed it wolves. 

If you don't think we are loosing ground every year in this battle. You have your head in the sand. They (the bunnyhuggers) are picking away until there is no more hunting. 
I am amazed there is any hunting allowed in California. 2 old ladies got an archery range shut down because they didn't like the 3D targets. This was a range that taught a lot of youth how to shoot bows.


----------



## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

its time for a change.


----------



## COArrow (Nov 24, 2013)

I am sure hunting is safe in all those states that made it part of their constitution;-)


----------



## bg305 (Nov 27, 2011)

Sorry guys I have to stop assuming on here. 



bucco921 said:


> I was trying my best to let this thread die......
> 
> BUT you guys who think hunting can't be stopped are delusional or naive.
> 
> ...


I replied to this ^^^



bg305 said:


> Give me the FACTS. Please name a few industries bigger than hunting/fishing(268 BILLION ANNUALLY).


With this ^^^ but I should have written at the end of my statement this.... That have been shut down by Antis. 



COArrow said:


> Drugs both legal and illegal Honestly 268 billion is small. Hunters are about 5% of the US, once you start realize we are minority we will start lose less.


You are right not the biggest industry in the world, bug still not going anywhere. 



bucco921 said:


> Thanks.
> 
> 268B really isn't that much. My employer generated 30B last year and we are far from the biggest player in our industry.
> 
> There are plenty of "facts" to be found with a simple google search. I'm going fishing.


Yes your employer is a rich man, but the antis have not shut his company down. 



Billie said:


> How many you need me to name? Auto industry is at 700 billion, Exxon is 360 billion, telecommunications is 400 billion, one single computer company is worth a trillion. And those are all of One industry. The hunting industry is made up of thousands of different industries, each one dependent on the PUBLIC to allow it to operate. From gun dealers to bow builders, ammo manufacturers, clothing, boots, everything we use. All of that can be individually put out of business by public opinions . Individually they are ALL vulnerable. Law suites, government regs, antigun laws, stupid hunting laws are ALL dependent on the PUBLIC. This lasted incident with a single lion hunt shows how quickly the "public" will turn on hunters.
> You say they can't stop hunting. They already are in areas of urban populations. Many places. You can't hunt bears by baiting, you can't lion hunt, or dove hunt in areas full of bears , lions, and doves. You know why? Because the PUBLIC voted on it. And it happens every year all across the US. Just cause you don't see it, or bother to find out , doesn't mean it's not happening.


Ummm, let's take the biggest you mentioned( the i company), nope not going to be shut down by the antis. If your interested there is a great documentary about this company and how they evade taxes online. 

So if anyone has 1 industry that was shut down by Antis please come fourth.


----------



## bg305 (Nov 27, 2011)

bucco921 said:


> I know, that's why I thanked you.:thumbs_up
> 
> Just for some perspective here, Walmart-one player in their industry, almost doubled what our ENTIRE industry generated last year.[/QUOTE
> 
> ...


----------



## bucco921 (Jan 2, 2012)

OK BG, 
I "generalized" and hate doing that. You're right on that aspect.

Maybe I should have said a shell of what they once were, crippled to the point of no coming back. Come up here and ask the thousands of miners who are no longer employed, the power plants that are shut down due to "Anti's" . The steel industry that is a speck of what it one was,(no not totally due to the "green" people but it will never recover and be profitable like it was because of the "green" people). My employer and all the others in our industry who've laid off 10's of thousands of americans this year. I could go on but I really don't care. Believe what you want but most of these were shut down by the antis who put the people they wanted in office.

Point being our "industry" is tiny, one simple law change can cripple it forever, easily, and like has already been mentioned that $$$ will be easily replaced. How can you see major airlines spit in the outdoor industries face over something that relatively few facts are known by anybody, the giant groundswell on social media, the petitions galore, the culture of this nation in general, and believe that all is well? 

As for your last post...I have no clue what you are getting at. 

I've had that dumb email sent to me a million times, don't need food for thought.

Don't patronize me with the "my friend" crap, I've been respectful to everybody.

All you did was further drive home my point about the size of our industry. It's a drop in the bucket.

We're on different sides of the track with this, I'll agree to disagree and move on. Forum battles aren't my thing.


----------



## bg305 (Nov 27, 2011)

Hey I can work with that, so did you slay em or what??? I sling sharp pointy sticks at more than land mammals :wink:


----------



## bucco921 (Jan 2, 2012)

That's pretty awesome^^. But no, tonight was rough, the flat heads haven't been cooperating lately.


----------



## bg305 (Nov 27, 2011)

That's cool, there's always tommorow. :thumbs_up:fish2:


----------



## Billie (Jul 1, 2004)

bg305 said:


> Sorry guys I have to stop assuming on here.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nice dodge. You start by saying hunting is the biggest industry, in post 933, then when industries are mentioned that are bigger, you change it to only those the antis have shut down. Environmentalists HAVE shut down industries. Mining and logging are the most evident. PETA and HSUS shut down entire companies over spotted owls and condors. 1000s of people lost jobs. And once they are shut down, they are gone. When have you EVER seen the government restart something after they stop it? 
Stick to your original statement. You say hunting can't be shut down. I showed you an example where it was . There are many. You just don't want to look. They are doing it all across the US, and when hunters actually HAVE enough increase in numbers to hunt, the antis will convince the PUBLIC to vote against it. Look at the proposed bear season in Florida. Biologists recommend it, the antis are slamming the legislature with petitions to prevent it by ballot vote. And with the amount of urban voters that never set foot in the woods, if it gets on the ballot, there will never be a bear season. The antis are right here in MY state making sure we will never have a bear season , even though the biologists say we need one . I've mentioned maine, California. There are many other states dealing with it right now. You can say it's not happening, and if it's les you feel good, keep thinking it. But your wrong, and if you will educate your self , you will see it.


----------



## KimberTac1911 (Feb 27, 2012)

bg305 said:


> Sorry guys I have to stop assuming on here.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Usa 1920's alcohol. It was unbanned but they still stopped it.


----------



## eskimoohunt (Dec 21, 2008)

Just saw a story on the national news that everyone j kimmel included that Cecil's cubs may now do well since Cecil is gone, but the Cubs are doing fine..... screw Cecil and j kimmel


----------



## PY Bucks (Feb 14, 2006)

In Africa some idiot shoots a lion and its his fault. In America one person shoots another and its the guns fault.

Saw this somewhere.


----------



## ridgehunter70 (Sep 30, 2012)




----------



## Crazy Wolves (Jan 16, 2012)

Like every dog has its days,.. so must a cat. In this case a LION..:dancing:


----------



## dfromal1977 (Aug 2, 2015)

The people of africa, not all....but most with financial difficulties, will slaughter every animal species before starving! Its human nature, who are we to judge? We are always given half stories n never told anything near the truth. Stop spreading this propaganda and you take the power from these international gossipers! I wouldnt have killed a lion, because i wouldnt eat it. But if life or death situation were to arise, id arrow him and probably feel guilty.....but id eat to survive.


----------



## hockeyman474 (Jan 7, 2015)

As a Michigander I can post this. Not sure if repost (I didn't read all 39 pages.)


----------



## cocowheats (Mar 3, 2011)

that's great


----------



## Guilliamst1971 (Oct 3, 2014)

All thus up roar for a lion. Why aren't these same people standing outside abortion clinics with their posters and Death threats? Unbelievable how people in this country value life. How is it OK to kill a fully developed human being but not a predatory animal that feeds on people if it has a chance?


----------



## Ptoid (Mar 8, 2014)

Guilliamst1971 said:


> All thus up roar for a lion. Why aren't these same people standing outside abortion clinics with their posters and Death threats? Unbelievable how people in this country value life. How is it OK to kill a fully developed human being but not a predatory animal that feeds on people if it has a chance?


Uproar. Nice one


----------



## pope125 (Dec 11, 2013)

Guilliamst1971 said:


> All thus up roar for a lion. Why aren't these same people standing outside abortion clinics with their posters and Death threats? Unbelievable how people in this country value life. How is it OK to kill a fully developed human being but not a predatory animal that feeds on people if it has a chance?


Because there a bunch of stupid liberials !!


----------



## KS Bow Hunter (Nov 22, 2013)

http://abcnews.go.com/International/happened-harrowing-hours-cecil-lion-killed/story?id=33044279


----------



## nicko (Feb 17, 2006)

Saw this magazine headline in my dentists office today.


----------



## Elvis_Is_Dead (Nov 25, 2009)

LOL - Dentists. The unsung heroes.

When have they EVER made a TV show about dentists... eh?


----------



## COArrow (Nov 24, 2013)

Just watched an interview with prosecutor from his poaching incident in WI. Shot the Bear 40 miles away and tried to register it his assigned unit. Also offered 20K each to his hunting partners to have them lie and cover it up for him. They declined and he did a plea deal. He was fined and had to give the bear back.This info is from court documents, solid character we has here...lol.


----------



## Elvis_Is_Dead (Nov 25, 2009)

I remembered a movie about a Dentist. (I'm sure they are all evil)


----------



## KS Bow Hunter (Nov 22, 2013)

COArrow said:


> Just watched an interview with prosecutor from his poaching incident in WI. Shot the Bear 40 miles away and tried to register it his assigned unit. Also offered 20K each to his hunting partners to have them lie and cover it up for him. They declined and he did a plea deal. He was fined and had to give the bear back.This info is from court documents, solid character we has here...lol.


Yes, that appears to be correct: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/cecil-lion-dentist-walter-palmer-6255227

One can also locate information regarding his sexual harassment case as well.


----------



## Kansas Bruisers (Dec 14, 2006)

COArrow said:


> Just watched an interview with prosecutor from his poaching incident in WI. Shot the Bear 40 miles away and tried to register it his assigned unit. Also offered 20K each to his hunting partners to have them lie and cover it up for him. They declined and he did a plea deal. He was fined and had to give the bear back.This info is from court documents, solid character we has here...lol.





KS Bow Hunter said:


> Yes, that appears to be correct: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/cecil-lion-dentist-walter-palmer-6255227
> 
> One can also locate information regarding his sexual harassment case as well.


We all know about these two cases and we can agree he is not an Angel. These cases have nothing to do with the lion hunt, Zimbabwe still hasn't charged him with any crime so why are you still hammering the guy?


----------



## KS Bow Hunter (Nov 22, 2013)

Kansas Bruisers said:


> We all know about these two cases and we can agree he is not an Angel. These cases have nothing to do with the lion hunt, Zimbabwe still hasn't charged him with any crime so why are you still hammering the guy?


Merely updating the thread as new information or articles comes available, which the last two links I posted were, I believe...


----------



## KS Bow Hunter (Nov 22, 2013)

http://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/l...-airlines-play-the-role-of-cowardly-lions.ece


----------



## COArrow (Nov 24, 2013)

Kansas Bruisers said:


> We all know about these two cases and we can agree he is not an Angel. These cases have nothing to do with the lion hunt, Zimbabwe still hasn't charged him with any crime so why are you still hammering the guy?


It shows a pattern. 2 people in jail, 2 out on bail and 1 hiding in the US in the current case...


----------



## Kansas Bruisers (Dec 14, 2006)

COArrow said:


> It shows a pattern. 2 people in jail, 2 out on bail and 1 hiding in the US in the current case...


He's hiding because of the morons that are threatening his life and his families life. Zimbabwe is not charging him with a crime, but apparently you are even though you have no idea what the facts are.


----------



## COArrow (Nov 24, 2013)

Kansas Bruisers said:


> He's hiding because of the morons that are threatening his life and his families life. Zimbabwe is not charging him with a crime, but apparently you are even though you have no idea what the facts are.


I actually do. I doubt he will be charged, but this fits right in. He will stay in the US while his hunting party will take the heat. You are defending a poacher, that is a fact. If nothing was wrong their hunt the other 4 in the party would not have charges. He also is a previous poached who offered 10's of thousands of dollars for people to lie for him. You support him for free. LOL.

by the way, they turned down the money...


----------



## KS Bow Hunter (Nov 22, 2013)

What the U.S. wants

The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service is currently on a fact-finding mission and is working to gather as much information as possible. If they conclude the case is worth prosecuting, they will pass it on to the Department of Justice and the DOJ will decide whether to pursue the case.


USA TODAY
Olivia Nalos Opre: Why we hunt, even lions

The African lion is protected under the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species of Wild Fauna and Flora, an international treaty between 180 countries established in 1975 that works to protect animals and plants. The U.S. Lacey Act was established in 1900 and is the law used to protect both American wildlife and wildlife protected by CITES.

The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service will likely work to determine whether or not Palmer's hunting trip and the death of Cecil violated CITES.

"The U.S. government looks to me to have pretty robust grounds to prosecute him," Glazier said

At this point, the Service has said it's too early to speculate about what measures, if any, may be taken because the case is still being investigated.
Contributing: Associated Press


----------



## COArrow (Nov 24, 2013)

As the facts are actually coming out, lots of crickets from the most vocal on this thread. I am not shocked though.


----------



## Billie (Jul 1, 2004)

KS Bow Hunter said:


> http://abcnews.go.com/International/happened-harrowing-hours-cecil-lion-killed/story?id=33044279


So you have a lion researcher that wasn't there, and didn't see ANY of this actually happen, and this is proof of what? He THINKS that the hunt happened like he says, and manages to inject his emotional responses into it, but has no proof whatsoever that he's right. This is speculation, and speculation only. I could tell how I think the world record whitetail was killed and have just as much relevance, although I wasn't there, didn't see it, and think it was done in an "Unethical" manner.


----------



## Billie (Jul 1, 2004)

COArrow said:


> As the facts are actually coming out, lots of crickets from the most vocal on this thread. I am not shocked though.


Why? You have some new info? Or just more speculation from a media source that has no more proof than the last?


----------



## Billie (Jul 1, 2004)

KS Bow Hunter said:


> What the U.S. wants
> 
> The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service is currently on a fact-finding mission and is working to gather as much information as possible. If they conclude the case is worth prosecuting, they will pass it on to the Department of Justice and the DOJ will decide whether to pursue the case.
> 
> ...


I'm sure you have a link for this...


----------



## Billie (Jul 1, 2004)

COArrow said:


> It shows a pattern. 2 people in jail, 2 out on bail and 1 hiding in the US in the current case...


The one hiding is not charged and is cooperating with the USFWS. You make it sound like he's on the run from the Feds. He's not. He's hiding from idiots threatening to kill his family.


----------



## COArrow (Nov 24, 2013)

Billie supports a poacher for free, that offered 10's of thousands of dollars to his hunting buddies to cover up poaching for him. Classic.


----------



## Billie (Jul 1, 2004)

KS Bow Hunter said:


> Yes, that appears to be correct: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/cecil-lion-dentist-walter-palmer-6255227
> 
> One can also locate information regarding his sexual harassment case as well.


Did you read this before you posted it? It's nothing but an anti hunting piece with NO proof or links to proof. Do you agree that because this dentist has mounted animal heads that he is an "insatiable killer"? Do you agree that because he hunts he has a "blood lust"? Do you believe that because he has blinds to shot deer on his 640 acres that this is an indication that he is monster? Do you consider having animals mounted is a sign that your a cold blooded killer, especially the "50 or more" "rare" animals, like elk and whitetails, that this dentist has hunted over 4 decades? 
As for the bribes mentioned, this hasn't been shown to have been true, except in this article written and published in the UNITED KINGDOM, not any US source.


----------



## Billie (Jul 1, 2004)

COArrow said:


> Billie supports a poacher for free, that offered 10's of thousands of dollars to his hunting buddies to cover up poaching for him. Classic.


No , Billie doesn't . Billie DOES, however support an American who hunts until he's proven guilty or innocent. If you have proof of this bribery, present it. If you don't , or if you just have an antihunting article from England that you believe, then maybe you should wait also. 
As I said, if you have some info, please, pass it on. But you dont,do you?


----------



## COArrow (Nov 24, 2013)

Billie said:


> No , Billie doesn't . Billie DOES, however support an American who hunts until he's proven guilty or innocent. If you have proof of this bribery, present it. If you don't , or if you just have an antihunting article from England that you believe, then maybe you should wait also.
> As I said, if you have some info, please, pass it on. But you dont,do you?


I watched an interview with the federal prosecutor supported with actual court documents. Had nothing to do with the UK. You should wise up.


----------



## Billie (Jul 1, 2004)

COArrow said:


> I watched an interview with the federal prosecutor supported with actual court documents. Had nothing to do with the UK. You should wise up.


Good. Then you should have info on how we can see it too. How did you watch it? Which channel? When? I'll take your advice and "wise up", but you need to post some info.
I HAVE read that he paid 3 guides for that bear hunt, but why would a US prosecutor be involved if it was a state wildlife violation? Wasn't he prosecuted by the state of Wisconsin?


----------



## COArrow (Nov 24, 2013)

Billie said:


> Good. Then you should have info on how we can see it too. How did you watch it? Which channel? When? I'll take your advice and "wise up", but you need to post some info.


You are too needy. You always ask for links and need help researching. You are former LEO, you should really know how to research court documents. It is really not that hard. Heck KSHunter copy/pasted an actually part of an article and you ask for a link. If you have such strong convictions, perhaps you are the one who should do some leg work.


----------



## Billie (Jul 1, 2004)

COArrow said:


> You are too needy. You always ask for links and need help researching. You are former LEO, you should really know how to research court documents. It is really not that hard. Heck KSHunter copy/pasted an actually part of an article and you ask for a link. If you have such strong convictions, perhaps you are the one who should do some leg work.


Yes, I can google with the best if them. I'm anything but needy. And if you saw an interview, all you have to do is say where you saw it. It's easy. Also, I edited my post above, asking why the US attorney was involved if it was a State wildlife violation. Did they mention that in the interview? As for legwork, if you come here spouting. "Evidence" of guilt on this subject, you can expect to be asked where you found it. I've looked, and I haven't seen an "interview" on any network. 
As far as KSHunters post, it's obviously bits of some article with no source, and the name mentioned in the quote is who? What's his title? Is he with USFWS? The state dept? Some antihunting group? A simple link would allow everyone here to see it all. If it's anything like that antihunting rant from the "mirror" written by some animal rights rag in England, it's credibility is questionable, as is most of the story about this whole event.


----------



## H20fwler (Apr 1, 2014)

KS Bow Hunter said:


> What the U.S. wants
> 
> The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service is currently on a fact-finding mission and is working to gather as much information as possible. If they conclude the case is worth prosecuting, they will pass it on to the Department of Justice and the DOJ will decide whether to pursue the case.
> 
> ...



This smells like BS...link please.

The Lacey Act is a Federal thing;

*"The Lacey Act of 1900, or simply the Lacey Act (16 U.S.C. §§ 3371–3378) is a conservation law in the United States that prohibits trade in wildlife, fish, and plants that have been illegally taken, possessed, transported, or sold."
Under the Lacey Act, it is unlawful to import, export, sell, acquire, or purchase fish, wildlife or plants that are taken, possessed, transported, or sold: 1) in violation of U.S. or Indian law, or 2) in interstate or foreign commerce involving any fish, wildlife, or plants taken possessed or sold in violation of State or foreign law.

The law covers all fish and wildlife and their parts or products, plants protected by the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species of Wild Fauna and Flora (CITES) and those protected by State law. Commercial guiding and outfitting are considered to be a sale under the provisions of the Act.

In 2008, the Lacey Act was amended to include a wider variety of prohibited plants and plant products, including products made from illegally logged woods, for import. 

When the Lacey Act was passed in 1900, it became the first federal law protecting wildlife. It enforces civil and criminal penalties for the illegal trade of animals and plants. Today it regulates the import of any species protected by international or domestic law and prevents the spread of invasive, or non-native, species."*


http://www.fws.gov/international/laws-treaties-agreements/us-conservation-laws/lacey-act.html

It concerns what happens "within" the borders of the USA. Like was an ENDANGERED animal or parts of it *brought into the USA*? Or any animal parts period. Cecil was not...more BS


*The Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species of Wild Fauna and Flora (CITES) entered into force in 1975, and became the only treaty to ensure that international trade in plants and animals does not threaten their survival in the wild. A State or country that has agreed to implement the Convention is called a Party to CITES. Currently there are 181 Parties including the United States.


CITES in the United States

Under the Endangered Species Act (ESA), the U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service has been designated to carry out the provisions of CITES through the Division of Management Authority and the Division of Scientific Authority. We work with numerous partners including federal and state agencies, industry groups, and conservation organizations. *


http://www.fws.gov/international/cites/index.html



CITES is Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species .. ENDANGERED SPECIES...of which Cecil was not. So that just sounds like anti rhetoric.

Of course the biased liberal media will try and feed the ignorant public anything that suits their agenda..Doesn't make any of it true. Nothing but half truths and misinformation...I swear a couple of you are taking plays right out of the anti hunting playbook..keep on swinging!


----------



## namozine (Mar 15, 2013)

I believe nothing from leftist sources such as AP and USA Today...
Their agenda has been widely known for years, along with 20/20...


----------



## KS Bow Hunter (Nov 22, 2013)

Billie said:


> I'm sure you have a link for this...


http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2015/07/31/dentist-cecil-lion-zimbabwe/30927415/


----------



## Elvis_Is_Dead (Nov 25, 2009)

namozine said:


> I believe nothing from leftist sources such as AP and USA Today...
> Their agenda has been widely known for years, along with 20/20...


Heck yeah. There you go mate. Cecil probably wasn't even a real lion! :grin:


----------



## KS Bow Hunter (Nov 22, 2013)

http://www.weau.com/home/headlines/18015589.html?device=tablet&c=y


----------



## huntin_addict (Jan 25, 2006)

The day is coming where all of you on this thread crucifying Mr. Dentist will need to defend your hunting actions as well. They have slowly but effectively pitted us against each other, and frankly, it saddens me.


----------



## Billie (Jul 1, 2004)

KS Bow Hunter said:


> http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2015/07/31/dentist-cecil-lion-zimbabwe/30927415/


Thank you. That clears it up. It's an article 13 days old, repeating the same thing the minister of environment said from the first week, when she said bowhunting was illegal in her own country. Which is untrue. According to the state dept, no effort has been made by them to extradite. The dentist contacted THEM to cooperate. 
The legal "expert " and source quoted is a Loyola teacher commenting on the case, who has Nothing to do with it. At all. And your previous post left out the paragraph before the part you "picked out" to post, discussing what the law actually says. Here, I'll post that up for you .


----------



## Darrens6601 (Jul 16, 2015)

huntin_addict said:


> The day is coming where all of you on this thread crucifying Mr. Dentist will need to defend your hunting actions as well. They have slowly but effectively pitted us against each other, and frankly, it saddens me.


Yup


----------



## KS Bow Hunter (Nov 22, 2013)

Billie said:


> Thank you. That clears it up. It's an article 13 days old, repeating the same thing the minister of environment said from the first week, when she said bowhunting was illegal in her own country. Which is untrue. According to the state dept, no effort has been made by them to extradite. The dentist contacted THEM to cooperate.
> The legal "expert " and source quoted is a Loyola teacher commenting on the case, who has Nothing to do with it. At all. And your previous post left out the paragraph before the part you "picked out" to post, discussing what the law actually says. Here, I'll post that up for you .
> View attachment 2677434


I posted the entire link for you or anyone else to read. You too are free to use Google.


----------



## Billie (Jul 1, 2004)

KS Bow Hunter said:


> I posted the entire link for you or anyone else to read. You too are free to use Google.


Yes you did. After I asked for it. Your first post conveniently left out what I just posted above. You picked through it, leaving out the entire paragraph pertaining to the legal issues. Here's what you posted, with the "legal" source only stating that there is enough to procecute, NOT the entire statement explaining it, which I posted above. Your picking and choosing to present your opinion that this man is guilty, regardless of your previous statements that you are being fair about this.


----------



## KS Bow Hunter (Nov 22, 2013)

Billie said:


> Yes you did. After I asked for it. Your first post conveniently left out what I just posted above. You picked through it, leaving out the entire paragraph pertaining to the legal issues. Here's what you posted, with the "legal" source only stating that there is enough to procecute, NOT the entire statement explaining it, which I posted above. Your picking and choosing to present your opinion that this man is guilty, regardless of your previous statements that you are being fair about this.
> View attachment 2677794


You are fighting with yourself. I know what I posted, and if I were trying to limit the information I would not have posted the link for you and everyone else to read. I posted no comments or opinions. There was no intent in my post, other than to respond to someones question about whether he had been charged. To my knowledge he has not, and even though Zimbabwe and the US are investigating, he is currently not being sought.

If he appears guilty, that is based on his actions and others perceptions.


----------



## Billie (Jul 1, 2004)

KS Bow Hunter said:


> You are fighting with yourself. I know what I posted, and if I were trying to limit the information I would not have posted the link for you and everyone else to read. I posted no comments or opinions. There was no intent in my post, other than to respond to someones question about whether he had been charged. To my knowledge he has not, and even though Zimbabwe and the US are investigating, he is currently not being sought.
> 
> If he appears guilty, that is based on his actions and others perceptions.


There is no fight. You post things, and you get responses. I know what you posted. Now, everyone can see them too. As to WHY you would post an article from a UK antihunting rag that is filled with comments about "blood lust " and the killing of "rare and innocent" animals, and condemns someone for actually mounting a head, Or hunting on their own property, I can only wonder.


----------



## KS Bow Hunter (Nov 22, 2013)

Billie said:


> There is no fight. You post things, and you get responses. I know what you posted. Now, everyone can see them too. As to WHY you would post an article from a UK antihunting rag that is filled with comments about "blood lust " and the killing of "rare and innocent" animals, and condemns someone for actually mounting a head, Or hunting on their own property, I can only wonder.


You can wonder all you like, that is your prerogative. But you are making sweeping assumptions and drawing conclusions that you have no basis for. I'm intelligent enough to read multiple articles and sources to develop a point of view on my own, filtering out the illogical or opinion. If you don't like the Mirror's reporting, you need to take that up with them. I've hunted for 43 years, and have no issue with ethical hunting of any kind any where. Don't misconstrue the posting of a link that I had no responsibility in creating with agreement or acceptance of the reporting. That is no different than you criticizing those being critical of the dentist with limited information. You are doing the same with less information.


----------



## Matt H (Aug 23, 2014)

ugh... media

remember the lone wolf that was killed in Utah near the grand canyon in Dec last year. the media didn't pounce on that with the same fervor even though people love wolves that resemble family pets because they had all the facts. the media didn't get to speculate for weeks on end about what happened in that instance.

the media isn't going to tell you the game laws in zimbabwe, they're not going to tell you how many people get killed by lions. the media doesn't even know what happened but they'll tell you the lion was the most famous lion around the world.

if Palmer knowingly did anything illegal that's on him, if the guides assured him everything was done legally but it wasn't that's on them.

http://www.startribune.com/zimbabwe-2-to-appear-in-court-for-killing-cecil-the-lion/318828251/


> Bob Lange of rural Glenwood, Minn., has hunted in Zimbabwe five times, and once, at the government’s request, shot a lion that had killed six people.
> While stressing that he is unfamiliar with the specifics of Palmer’s hunt and that he doesn’t know Palmer, Lange said the case appears typical of trophy hunting in Zimbabwe.
> 
> “If what I understand about the hunt is accurate, nothing seems unusual or illegal about it,” Lange said, “unless the landowner didn’t have a hunting permit. But if that was the case, you, the hunter, would have no way to know. You’re in the outfitter’s hands.”


it's not as clear as the media would tell you

CITES info on lions
https://cites.org/sites/default/files/eng/com/ac/27/E-AC27-24-03-03.pdf


----------



## Billie (Jul 1, 2004)

KS Bow Hunter said:


> You can wonder all you like, that is your prerogative. But you are making sweeping assumptions and drawing conclusions that you have no basis for. I'm intelligent enough to read multiple articles and sources to develop a point of view on my own, filtering out the illogical or opinion. If you don't like the Mirror's reporting, you need to take that up with them. I've hunted for 43 years, and have no issue with ethical hunting of any kind any where. Don't misconstrue the posting of a link that I had no responsibility in creating with agreement or acceptance of the reporting. That is no different than you criticizing those being critical of the dentist with limited information. You are doing the same with less information.


You can post ANYTHING you find. If you want to post articles painting hunters as blood thirsty monsters, please do so. Why you would do that, however, does and will open up speculation at to WHY you would do so. As you say, your intelligent enough to know what your doing. That alone is the basis for questioning why you would do so. Do you agree with the article? Does having an animal mount make you a blood thirsty killer? Are you indulging in "blood lust" for actually hunting on your own land? If not, do you only agree that the DENTIST is a bloodthirsty killer, not all the rest of us that might have a mounted head on the wall? If you DONT agree with it, why would you post it?


----------



## Kansas Bruisers (Dec 14, 2006)

KS Bow Hunter said:


> You can wonder all you like, that is your prerogative. But you are making sweeping assumptions and drawing conclusions that you have no basis for. I'm intelligent enough to read multiple articles and sources to develop a point of view on my own, filtering out the illogical or opinion. If you don't like the Mirror's reporting, you need to take that up with them. I've hunted for 43 years, and have no issue with ethical hunting of any kind any where. Don't misconstrue the posting of a link that I had no responsibility in creating with agreement or acceptance of the reporting. That is no different than you criticizing those being critical of the dentist with limited information. You are doing the same with less information.


I think the problem is, you appear to be talking out of both sides of your mouth. I'm not saying it's intentional, it just appears that way. In some posts you insinuate he is absolutely guilty based only on his past conviction, or you post links to media reports that prove your point and insinuate that his past makes him guilty. In other posts, you agree that he has not been charged or found guilty of any crime associated with the lion hunt, in Zimbabwe or the US.

If you know he has not been charged with a crime by any government authority, why would you post a media link that is giving false information? It's hard to tell from post to post exactly where you stand. Do you honestly believe he is guilty of any crime in regards to the lion hunt, or are you reserving judgment until he is charged and or convicted?


----------



## JWaltrip (Dec 30, 2006)

Haven't they hung that SOB yet?


----------



## bucco921 (Jan 2, 2012)

I've already stated my feelings on the dentist, if he's guilty then he should pay, if not I hope he gets retribution. 

But why on earth hunters lap up the anti propaganda is mind boggling.....completely mind boggling.
It's a crying shame that actual hunters are eating this crap up and running with it.

Court documents, I take those as fact and something to formulate an opinion, but that article???? Really???


----------



## JWaltrip (Dec 30, 2006)

bucco921 said:


> I've already stated my feelings on the dentist, if he's guilty then he should pay, if not I hope he gets retribution.
> 
> But why on earth hunters lap up the anti propaganda is mind boggling.....completely mind boggling.
> It's a crying shame that actual hunters are eating this crap up and running with it.
> ...


And it's also mind boggling those who defend. Dude had prior offenses poaching. Hang the MFer or at least cut off his trigger finger.


----------



## KS Bow Hunter (Nov 22, 2013)

Billie said:


> You can post ANYTHING you find. If you want to post articles painting hunters as blood thirsty monsters, please do so. Why you would do that, however, does and will open up speculation at to WHY you would do so. As you say, your intelligent enough to know what your doing. That alone is the basis for questioning why you would do so. Do you agree with the article? Does having an animal mount make you a blood thirsty killer? Are you indulging in "blood lust" for actually hunting on your own land? If not, do you only agree that the DENTIST is a bloodthirsty killer, not all the rest of us that might have a mounted head on the wall? If you DONT agree with it, why would you post it?


Billie you are overplaying the ball. The post was in reference to the claims of his prior poaching, which there are numerous articles citing the legal documentation and the alleged bribery. I happened to grab the Mirror article, though since that seemed to offend, I posted the Wisconsin article. That's it...nothing more. You can continue to assume, though that is futile as it pertains to my motives.

My question would be this: given that the person in question has a previous conviction for poaching, fishing without a license, bribery, sexual harassment, and using his means to avoid significant jail time over those events, does that impact your beliefs on his claimed complete innocence in this case?

I have no proof, but I have enough experience in life to know that that I have an opinion.

I think that's all that people are expressing...


----------



## Billie (Jul 1, 2004)

KS Bow Hunter said:


> Billie you are overplaying the ball. The post was in reference to the claims of his prior poaching, which there are numerous articles citing the legal documentation and the alleged bribery. I happened to grab the Mirror article, though since that seemed to offend, I posted the Wisconsin article. That's it...nothing more. You can continue to assume, though that is futile as it pertains to my motives.
> 
> My question would be this: given that the person in question has a previous conviction for poaching, fishing without a license, bribery, sexual harassment, and using his means to avoid significant jail time over those events, does that impact your beliefs on his claimed complete innocence in this case?
> 
> ...


And you HAVE expressed that. Many times. I question how posting an antihunting rant from a UK rag is reinforcing your view. You then state you have no proof. Then why post it? If you already know it proves nothing, and only trashes all hunters that DO hunt, what would be the point? That's the question, as you say, "nothing more". What Motive WOULD you have, if it proves nothing? 
As to his innocence or guilt, I still say the same thing I said from the first. This man was being judged from the first day based on lies. From the first article. He still is. You say your basing judgement on his past experiences, but in truth, he was called guilty before ANY of those things became public. There is NO proof he intentionally broke any law in ZM. He still has had no charges on him. Thats MY opinion, which is based on fact.


----------



## KS Bow Hunter (Nov 22, 2013)

Billie said:


> And you HAVE expressed that. Many times. I question how posting an antihunting rant from a UK rag is reinforcing your view. You then state you have no proof. Then why post it? If you already know it proves nothing, and only trashes all hunters that DO hunt, what would be the point? That's the question, as you say, "nothing more". What Motive WOULD you have, if it proves nothing?
> As to his innocence or guilt, I still say the same thing I said from the first. This man was being judged from the first day based on lies. From the first article. He still is. You say your basing judgement on his past experiences, but in truth, he was called guilty before ANY of those things became public. There is NO proof he intentionally broke any law in ZM. He still has had no charges on him. Thats MY opinion, which is based on fact.


Billie, you are making assumptions. I never said the Mirror article was reinforcing my views, that I liked it, or that I agreed with it. It does however, as many other articles do, highlight that in fact the good innocent dentist with the scary white teeth, has in fact bribed people in the past to lie for him in a clearly known poaching event.

That is fact.

Of course he is getting crucified by the media and anti-hunters for this, just like the CEO of GoDaddy and the CEO of Jimmy Johns have in the past...that is expected and a given. I'm not condoning it, but I am not surprised by it.

Maybe he is innocent, maybe he is not. You do not know any more than I. You have assumptions and an opinion.

Yes there is a lot of misinformation in the media, but there is also a lot of actual fact as well. You have to understand which is which and form your own opinion.

Of course this is not good for hunters, but my posting an article from the Mirror has no impact on that whatsoever, nor does it indicate that I am in some way in agreement with it other than what I said...that it does appear as if he has in fact been convicted of poaching in the past.

I don't know about you, but I've only ever received one citation in 43 years of fishing and hunting all over the world...and that was for having lead shot in my vest in a steel shot area. It was a mistake, as the regulations changed and I was unaware on opening day of pheasant season. I paid a hefty fine for a college kid at the time.

I can say that anyone that had ever poached or taken game that they shouldn't have anytime in one of our hunting and fishing parties would never be welcome ever again.

And if I read about a controversy regarding that person later, of course I would support innocent until proven guilty. Though I would not be surprised that people who use their means, whether it be money or celebrity status to bend the rules, end up at the center of another controversy later.

The one thing that is irrefutable is that this isn't going to be good for hunters in any way. The biggest difference is that some of us think that it is our responsibility to not do anything that would allow the opposition a window in which we could be attacked.

The best way for hunters to preserve our heritage and future is to work together, obey the laws, and self-police our own actions and fellow hunters. 

This will all work itself out in time, as the facts become available.


----------



## KS Bow Hunter (Nov 22, 2013)

Here is another article, that has both fact and fiction...

It states he is unlikely to be prosecuted in Africa, as you'd suspect. I doubt we'd extradite him anyway...

It also claims the lion is endangered, though to my knowledge it is not on that list.

http://www.inquisitr.com/2337052/wa...tist-allegedly-made-habit-of-illegal-hunting/


----------



## Billie (Jul 1, 2004)

KS Bow Hunter said:


> Billie, you are making assumptions. I never said the Mirror article was reinforcing my views, that I liked it, or that I agreed with it. It does however, as many other articles do, highlight that in fact the good innocent dentist with the scary white teeth, has in fact bribed people in the past to lie for him in a clearly known poaching event.
> 
> That is fact.
> 
> ...


I agree with your statement "maybe he is innocent, maybe he is not. You do not know anything more than than I". If you would limit your opinions to that, we would have a much shorter topic, and no disagreement .


----------



## COArrow (Nov 24, 2013)

Billie said:


> I agree with your statement "maybe he is innocent, maybe he is not. You do not know anything more than than I". If you would limit your opinions to that, we would have a much shorter topic, and no disagreement .


If he did that he would be functioning with blinders on.


----------



## palmatedbuck04 (Nov 26, 2006)

COArrow said:


> If he did that he would be functioning with blinders on.


Be is innocent until proven guilty,its a shame he has to be in hiding and who know how bad financially because of this and hasnt been arrested charged or indicted


----------



## COArrow (Nov 24, 2013)

palmatedbuck04 said:


> Be is innocent until proven guilty,its a shame he has to be in hiding and who know how bad financially because of this and hasnt been arrested charged or indicted


Who knows, the last time he poached it only cost him 3K and had to forfeit the Bear. He did offer to pay 20K to each of his hunting partners to lie on his behalf. Maybe it is just balancing out. It is hard to hide from karma.


----------



## Elvis_Is_Dead (Nov 25, 2009)

LOL - I bet Ned Tugent immorally supports all his bow hunting dentists!


----------



## KS Bow Hunter (Nov 22, 2013)

Elvis_Is_Dead said:


> LOL - I bet Ned Tugent immorally supports all his bow hunting dentists!


I bet Ted is a complete trip to hang out with.


----------



## JWaltrip (Dec 30, 2006)

KS Bow Hunter said:


> I bet Ted is a complete trip to hang out with.


I think Ted and the dentist would make a good pair. Hasn't Ted been known to poach a bit?


----------



## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

Only eggs....


----------



## Lyle_Savant (Aug 18, 2015)

Why was the Lion named? And why did people know about this particular lion?


----------



## Cjclemens (Aug 20, 2013)

Lyle_Savant said:


> Why was the Lion named? And why did people know about this particular lion?


Nothing like walking in, during the middle of a movie, and asking "what's going on?"


----------



## BigDeer (Aug 9, 2005)

Cjclemens said:


> Nothing like walking in, during the middle of a movie, and asking "what's going on?"


lol, more like during the credits..


----------



## Cjclemens (Aug 20, 2013)

BigDeer said:


> lol, more like during the credits..


Cant argue with that!


----------



## BigDeer (Aug 9, 2005)

Cjclemens said:


> Cant argue with that!


Your post = post of the day

still laughing


----------



## Billie (Jul 1, 2004)

Lyle_Savant said:


> Why was the Lion named? And why did people know about this particular lion?


Because Lyle, this lion was a treasured member of a pride in a park in ZIM. He was famous for his sweet and photogenic demeanor. A paragon if courage and virtue in his country! 
EXCEPT nobody in his country outside the researchers in the park knew about him, and after a week of being asked by reporters what they thought about his death , stated they could care less about a dead lion, because they eat people. 
As for the idiots in THIS country, they couldn't find ZIM. On a map, never heard of this park OR this lion until the media told them it was the most important story to come out of Africa since the discovery of AIDS.


----------



## ScottyE (Apr 17, 2008)

Billie said:


> Because Lyle, this lion was a treasured member of a pride in a park in ZIM. He was famous for his sweet and photogenic demeanor. A paragon if courage and virtue in his country!
> EXCEPT nobody in his country outside the researchers in the park knew about him, and after a week of being asked by reporters what they thought about his death , stated they could care less about a dead lion, because they eat people.
> As for the idiots in THIS country, they couldn't find ZIM. On a map, never heard of this park OR this lion until the media told them it was the most important story to come out of Africa since the discovery of AIDS.


^awesome post


----------



## kenny_TNT_tv (Dec 22, 2010)

The real ? is , how is this thread still alive? lol


----------



## Elvis_Is_Dead (Nov 25, 2009)

Billie said:


> Because Lyle, this lion was a treasured member of a pride in a park in ZIM. He was famous for his sweet and photogenic demeanor. A paragon if courage and virtue in his country!
> EXCEPT nobody in his country outside the researchers in the park knew about him, and after a week of being asked by reporters what they thought about his death , stated they could care less about a dead lion, because they eat people.
> As for the idiots in THIS country, they couldn't find ZIM. On a map, never heard of this park OR this lion until the media told them it was the most important story to come out of Africa since the discovery of AIDS.


Gary the Gazelle knew about him and is celebrating with popcorn (thanks zap)!


----------



## KS Bow Hunter (Nov 22, 2013)

Billie said:


> Because Lyle, this lion was a treasured member of a pride in a park in ZIM. He was famous for his sweet and photogenic demeanor. A paragon if courage and virtue in his country!
> EXCEPT nobody in his country outside the researchers in the park knew about him, and after a week of being asked by reporters what they thought about his death , stated they could care less about a dead lion, because they eat people.
> As for the idiots in THIS country, they couldn't find ZIM. On a map, never heard of this park OR this lion until the media told them it was the most important story to come out of Africa since the discovery of AIDS.


So I can find Zimbabwe and I knew about this lion...just stating a fact...


----------



## Billie (Jul 1, 2004)

KS Bow Hunter said:


> So I can find Zimbabwe and I knew about this lion...just stating a fact...


So did I. Because I've read about the research the Oxford group did in ZIM that supported permited sport hunting. How many of the 400,000 that posted on FB to kill this dentist knew anything about it? 
As for the local ZIM people's support of this lion, I think their statements speak for themselves.







https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...k_gCxKhL6Yc3Ktmcg&sig2=73bmCxXTHZse9O8OcH0D0w


----------



## Bullhound (Feb 5, 2004)

KS Bow Hunter said:


> So I can find Zimbabwe and I knew about this lion...just stating a fact...


just another in a long line of BS from you.................................


carry on! :wink:


----------



## Fulldraw1972 (Jan 6, 2012)

KS Bow Hunter said:


> So I can find Zimbabwe and I knew about this lion...just stating a fact...


Your one of the handful of US people that knew about the lion then. Lol


----------



## JWaltrip (Dec 30, 2006)

Since the shortbusers are keeping this thread alive......



I like lions more than poachers.:darkbeer:


----------



## Rolo (Dec 16, 2002)

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/zimbabwe-charges-man-allegedly-helped-kill-cecil-the-lion/

Equal opportunity being what it is...


----------



## JWaltrip (Dec 30, 2006)

Rolo said:


> http://www.cbsnews.com/news/zimbabwe-charges-man-allegedly-helped-kill-cecil-the-lion/
> 
> Equal opportunity being what it is...


That confirms the poachers guilt. Poacher dentist knew exactly what was going on. Once again ...hang the sob. Sure makes you guys, with your internet phd's that defended him, look like fools. Not really hard to do though because I can spew more sensible discussions from my ass.:darkbeer:


----------



## KS Bow Hunter (Nov 22, 2013)

Bullhound said:


> just another in a long line of BS from you.................................
> 
> 
> carry on! :wink:


Oh. Ok.


----------



## KS Bow Hunter (Nov 22, 2013)

Fulldraw1972 said:


> Your one of the handful of US people that knew about the lion then. Lol


As an amateur photog I've seen photos of him for years and read some of the papers from Oxford...


----------



## KS Bow Hunter (Nov 22, 2013)

Rolo said:


> http://www.cbsnews.com/news/zimbabwe-charges-man-allegedly-helped-kill-cecil-the-lion/
> 
> Equal opportunity being what it is...


Interesting...


----------



## Fulldraw1972 (Jan 6, 2012)

JWaltrip said:


> That confirms the poachers guilt. Poacher dentist knew exactly what was going on. Once again ...hang the sob. Sure makes you guys, with your internet phd's that defended him, look like fools. Not really hard to do though because I can spew more sensible discussions from my ass.[emoji481]


I don't think it confirms anything other then what's already been discussed. 

From what I have heard the lion was an opportunity animal while on a leopard hunt. The landowner had a quota for a different property. After the lion was shot and Palmer left they tried to switch properties as far as quota goes. Something that goes on all the time there. Well the quota wasn't switched. Hence the problem started.


----------



## Fulldraw1972 (Jan 6, 2012)

KS Bow Hunter said:


> As an amateur photog I've seen photos of him for years and read some of the papers from Oxford...


Are you sure it was Cecil? Did he have a name tag on his collar?


----------



## KS Bow Hunter (Nov 22, 2013)

Fulldraw1972 said:


> Are you sure it was Cecil? Did he have a name tag on his collar?


He actually had one of those sticky name tags with Sharpie writing on it. Penmanship was quite good.


----------



## Fulldraw1972 (Jan 6, 2012)

KS Bow Hunter said:


> He actually had one of those sticky name tags with Sharpie writing on it. Penmanship was quite good.


Gotcha. That could be why the dentist didn't know it was Cecil. The sticky name tag fell off. Lol


----------



## KS Bow Hunter (Nov 22, 2013)

Fulldraw1972 said:


> Gotcha. That could be why the dentist didn't know it was Cecil. The sticky name tag fell off. Lol


You know lion manes are quiet challenging to adhere to.


----------



## Mr. Man (Sep 19, 2011)

KS Bow Hunter said:


> As an amateur photog I've seen photos of him for years and read some of the papers from Oxford...


What the hell is an amateur photographer? I take pictures with a camera, do I qualify?


----------



## KS Bow Hunter (Nov 22, 2013)

Mr. Man said:


> What the hell is an amateur photographer? I take pictures with a camera, do I qualify?


That means I do it as a side job not my primary job. Thats the distinction between a professional, an amateur, and prosumer/consumer...


----------



## KS Bow Hunter (Nov 22, 2013)

Mr. Man said:


> What the hell is an amateur photographer? I take pictures with a camera, do I qualify?


That would make you a consumer. When you sell the photos and have another job that would make you an amateur, and when you do it full time that's a pro.


----------



## KS Bow Hunter (Nov 22, 2013)

Fulldraw1972 said:


> I don't think it confirms anything other then what's already been discussed.
> 
> From what I have heard the lion was an opportunity animal while on a leopard hunt. The landowner had a quota for a different property. After the lion was shot and Palmer left they tried to switch properties as far as quota goes. Something that goes on all the time there. Well the quota wasn't switched. Hence the problem started.


How often would you guess in a year that an animal is killed on one property and then the quota is transferred from another to cover it?


----------



## Fulldraw1972 (Jan 6, 2012)

I have no idea. But if it happens. Which people that hunt over there have stated then it obviously happens. 
You have to remember we are talking about Zim. A 3rd world country where money trumps everything and rules/laws change on a whim.


----------



## KS Bow Hunter (Nov 22, 2013)

Fulldraw1972 said:


> I have no idea. But if it happens. Which people that hunt over there have stated then it obviously happens.
> You have to remember we are talking about Zim. A 3rd world country where money trumps everything and rules/laws change on a whim.


That's possibly true but I don't know. Seems like a stretch. Though this isn't generally a good thing for hunting there so it kind of makes you wonder why they would be charging people and acting this way...


----------



## TAIL_CHASER (Dec 23, 2014)

Cecil still dead....just saying.


----------



## Mr. Man (Sep 19, 2011)

KS Bow Hunter said:


> That means I do it as a side job not my primary job. Thats the distinction between a professional, an amateur, and prosumer/consumer...


Oh, ok. Any other famous animals you've studied as an amateur that you could tell us about before they get "poached"? It would be neat to say I'd actually heard of one when he gets killed.


----------



## KS Bow Hunter (Nov 22, 2013)

Mr. Man said:


> Oh, ok. Any other famous animals you've studied as an amateur that you could tell us about before they get "poached"? It would be neat to say I'd actually heard of one when he gets killed.


Yep. Buck Norris.


----------



## KS Bow Hunter (Nov 22, 2013)

Mr. Man said:


> Oh, ok. Any other famous animals you've studied as an amateur that you could tell us about before they get "poached"? It would be neat to say I'd actually heard of one when he gets killed.


Maybe I got lucky, but I gave a talk at Oxford in the UK a while back to the entrepreneurship group of the MBA class...I got to meet some of the researchers and saw photos then of Cecil while we sampled the local beverages in the little pubs around campus....

You can also check out some of the best photos in the world here:

http://photography.nationalgeograph...llery/#/mother-cub-panthers_26400_600x450.jpg


----------



## Billie (Jul 1, 2004)

KS Bow Hunter said:


> Yep. Buck Norris.


Ok. That's pretty funny.


----------



## Billie (Jul 1, 2004)

JWaltrip said:


> That confirms the poachers guilt. Poacher dentist knew exactly what was going on. Once again ...hang the sob. Sure makes you guys, with your internet phd's that defended him, look like fools. Not really hard to do though because I can spew more sensible discussions from my ass.:darkbeer:


Maybe you should start with the spewing, cause no one here had seen a sensible discussion from you yet.


----------



## JWaltrip (Dec 30, 2006)

Billie said:


> Maybe you should start with the spewing, cause no one here had seen a sensible discussion from you yet.


Don't be butt sore Belly.:darkbeer:It's ok to be wrong.


----------



## Lyle_Savant (Aug 18, 2015)

Cjclemens said:


> Nothing like walking in, during the middle of a movie, and asking "what's going on?"


Well, if I just joined the site, that would be normal. Thanks for the warm welcome, didn't know ya'll were already full up; and sure wouldn't have joined if I knew it was a site for such egos. 

I guess there's nothing wrong with a clique, as long as your in it.


----------



## BigDeer (Aug 9, 2005)

Lyle_Savant said:


> Well, if I just joined the site, that would be normal. Thanks for the warm welcome, didn't know ya'll were already full up; and sure wouldn't have joined if I knew it was a site for such egos.
> 
> I guess there's nothing wrong with a clique, as long as your in it.


simma down Lyle

welcome to AT bud

to sum up this thread...

dentist shoots lion..dentist has a past record...dentist is put on the chopping block by some asap while some await facts. Numerous reports muddy the facts. After the smoke clears it appears the media started the sh1t storm, dentist's life has been turned upside down and nothing has been proven as illegal as far as I know. I'm sure some will add to it...


----------



## Elvis_Is_Dead (Nov 25, 2009)

Lyle_Savant said:


> Why was the Lion named? And why did people know about this particular lion?


Because He was Cecil the FRIENDLY Lion (no doubt). Although I never saw a Peta activist have the guts to test that theory by putting their head in his mouth.


----------



## Elvis_Is_Dead (Nov 25, 2009)

BigDeer said:


> simma down Lyle
> 
> welcome to AT bud
> 
> ...


LOL - just like all the bazillions of other threads out there on this friendly lion.


----------



## BigDeer (Aug 9, 2005)

Elvis_Is_Dead said:


> LOL - just like all the bazillions of other threads out there on this friendly lion.


I remember someone asking the same thing about OB...


----------



## cleve (Apr 11, 2010)

KS Bow Hunter said:


> Yep. Buck Norris.


nope this guy is dead... got hit by a car in bend oregon this year.... unless your talking about another on.


----------



## Cjclemens (Aug 20, 2013)

Lyle_Savant said:


> Well, if I just joined the site, that would be normal. Thanks for the warm welcome, didn't know ya'll were already full up; and sure wouldn't have joined if I knew it was a site for such egos.
> 
> I guess there's nothing wrong with a clique, as long as your in it.


Pump the brakes a bit there, chief. Cliques and egos have nothing to do with it. Maybe you could try reading the thread like the rest of us did. Or try google. Seriously, have you been living in a box with ear plugs and blinders on for the last several weeks?


----------



## Billie (Jul 1, 2004)

JWaltrip said:


> Don't be butt sore Belly.:darkbeer:It's ok to be wrong.


If being wrong is ok, You should feel great everyday.


----------



## KS Bow Hunter (Nov 22, 2013)

cleve said:


> nope this guy is dead... got hit by a car in bend oregon this year.... unless your talking about another on.


Yes, he is. But it is another example of an animal that has been photographed for years that most of us knew...


----------



## palmatedbuck04 (Nov 26, 2006)

Ttt


----------



## cleve (Apr 11, 2010)

KS Bow Hunter said:


> Yes, he is. But it is another example of an animal that has been photographed for years that most of us knew...


he was asking about other ones that haven't dead yet so he could say he knew something about them. just making sure your informed about it. being from oregon you would think most outdoorsy type people would have known he died but very few do. It never really blew up into news... kinda like this incident should not have.


----------



## KS Bow Hunter (Nov 22, 2013)

cleve said:


> he was asking about other ones that haven't dead yet so he could say he knew something about them. just making sure your informed about it. being from oregon you would think most outdoorsy type people would have known he died but very few do. It never really blew up into news... kinda like this incident should not have.


Yep I got that...but thank you.


----------



## bowmech60 (Jan 6, 2011)

It ended, and now I can go on with my life!


----------



## Matt H (Aug 23, 2014)

i'm going to name this one giant murder cat and the other one giant murder cat jr


----------



## Eliteone2383 (Jul 10, 2015)

I wonder how Cecil tasted...


----------



## Mike_melton (Jul 30, 2014)

Eliteone2383 said:


> I wonder how Cecil tasted...


I bet great mmmmmmm I would try it


----------



## Eliteone2383 (Jul 10, 2015)

Mike_melton said:


> I bet great mmmmmmm I would try it


Im thinking slow cooked in a smoker would be the ticket.


----------



## turkeyhunter60 (Apr 19, 2010)

cleve said:


> nope this guy is dead... got hit by a car in bend oregon this year.... unless your talking about another on.


This is him a couple of years ago.Buck Norris..Killed by a car just recently..In Bend just North of me..


----------



## 09blackonblack (Nov 9, 2011)

Guess you should destroy the drivers life for killing such a "majestic beast"


----------



## namozine (Mar 15, 2013)

09blackonblack said:


> Guess you should destroy the drivers life for killing such a "majestic beast"


Could still happen...
The right mindless, liberal, Salon.com twit hasn't seen it yet...


----------



## Michael Myers (Nov 13, 2008)

Eliteone2383 said:


> I wonder how Cecil tasted...


Cooked on low in the slow cooker with french onion soup mix/cream of mushroom soup for a few hours,take out...season accordingly over a bed of wild mushroom rice and fresh green beans from the garden...... It would be good enough to make you roar....:cheers:


----------



## solohunter (Feb 22, 2005)

palmatedbuck04 said:


> A lake county Ohio woman was murdered and another wounded on Monday by an illegal alien.this was 20 minutes from my house.The mexican had no,drivers license,birthcertificate,passport,green card no documentation what so ever.was picked up by police on july 7 in a suspicious vehicle (2.5 weeks before the murder) police called border patrol they said to turn him loose cuz he bad no warrants.this doesnt make headline news and isnt all over social media,but there is all this outrage over a stinkin lion halfway around the world....pathetic!


Agree 100%


----------



## KS Bow Hunter (Nov 22, 2013)

The challenge with comparing this to illegal immigrants committing crimes is that the NGOs don't utilize reason or fact, but rather leverage specific information and activities to further their cause. They don't care about the reality of a situation, nor the supporting data driving the issue. Like the liberal media and romance novel writers, they deliver what sells...


----------



## Challenger (Nov 4, 2007)




----------



## dimbledumble (Jun 25, 2015)

KS Bow Hunter said:


> The challenge with comparing this to illegal immigrants committing crimes is that the NGOs don't utilize reason or fact, but rather leverage specific information and activities to further their cause. They don't care about the reality of a situation, nor the supporting data driving the issue. Like the liberal media and romance novel writers, they deliver what sells...


Like the media does.....??????? (Pull on heart strings.............And ??????????.........."Guess what Bob??.......Our ratings are gonna go through the roof now!!!!!) 
Isnt this great?? ............... Look how easy it is to manipulate people!!!!!


----------



## KS Bow Hunter (Nov 22, 2013)

dimbledumble said:


> Like the media does.....??????? (Pull on heart strings.............And ??????????.........."Guess what Bob??.......Our ratings are gonna go through the roof now!!!!!)
> Isnt this great?? ............... Look how easy it is to manipulate people!!!!!


I'm not entirely sure what you are saying in this post...that the media doesn't cover what sells or that they do and that's how people are manipulated? Not sure...


----------



## Eliteone2383 (Jul 10, 2015)

Grizz Outdoors said:


> Cooked on low in the slow cooker with french onion soup mix/cream of mushroom soup for a few hours,take out...season accordingly over a bed of wild mushroom rice and fresh green beans from the garden...... It would be good enough to make you roar....:cheers:


So what times dinner? Ill bring the bubbly


----------



## Hidden Danger (Mar 13, 2008)

This thread is still going? Let it go already. Geez


----------



## JWaltrip (Dec 30, 2006)

09blackonblack said:


> Guess you should destroy the drivers life for killing such a "majestic beast"


If there is a God in Heaven it will happen..:darkbeer:


----------



## Billie (Jul 1, 2004)

JWaltrip said:


> If there is a God in Heaven it will happen..:darkbeer:


----------



## KS Bow Hunter (Nov 22, 2013)

Billie said:


> View attachment 2737346


I don't often agree with you, but that is a GREAT movie and he plays a great part...


----------



## Billie (Jul 1, 2004)

KS Bow Hunter said:


> I don't often agree with you, but that is a GREAT movie and he plays a great part...


He usually does.


----------



## Hey Abbott (Dec 12, 2013)

The fact that this is still getting debated is hilarious. Far more important things to worry about.


----------



## pope125 (Dec 11, 2013)

The Dentist get charged with a crime yet ?


----------



## H20fwler (Apr 1, 2014)

Billie said:


> He usually does.


He sure does!


----------



## Billie (Jul 1, 2004)

pope125 said:


> The Dentist get charged with a crime yet ?


As of today, No. The landowner may have to pay a whopping 400 fine. That's how serious the ZIM government is about this, unless it involves a rich American.


----------



## pope125 (Dec 11, 2013)

Billie said:


> As of today, No. The landowner may have to pay a whopping 400 fine. That's how serious the ZIM government is about this, unless it involves a rich American.


I'LL bet eveything I have that nothing happens to Mr. Palmer !!


----------



## Yamahog12 (Sep 3, 2007)

challenger said:


> View attachment 2734346


lol!


----------



## KS Bow Hunter (Nov 22, 2013)

Oh boy:
http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/25/africa/zimbabwe-safari-guide-killed-by-lion/


----------



## Billie (Jul 1, 2004)

KS Bow Hunter said:


> Oh boy:
> http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/25/africa/zimbabwe-safari-guide-killed-by-lion/


There's a thread about it here already. He was a walking tour guide that was intentionally tracking them. Seems they didn't like that.


----------



## KS Bow Hunter (Nov 22, 2013)

http://m.tmz.com/#Article/2015/08/25/cecil-the-lion-killer-halloween-costume-with-severed-head


----------



## KS Bow Hunter (Nov 22, 2013)

Billie said:


> There's a thread about it here already. He was a walking tour guide that was intentionally tracking them. Seems they didn't like that.


Funny thing those wild animals.


----------



## ridgehunter70 (Sep 30, 2012)

Yall can stop with this useless thread now. The media is talking about other things now so follow along little sheep.


----------



## Iron Duke (May 14, 2010)

*Funny, no moral outrage ...* and media hysteria over a human being killed by Cecil's kin. Gotta love the media. http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/0...-lion-to-protect-tourists-in/?intcmp=trending


----------



## Ptoid (Mar 8, 2014)

Unlike Cecil this thread wont die


----------



## JWaltrip (Dec 30, 2006)

If anyone is struggling right now in these times of mourning you should call the Cecil berevment hotline 800-555-2468. We WILL make it through this! It will just take time.



Please donate to the Cecil memorial fund. R.i.p. Cec.


----------



## namozine (Mar 15, 2013)

JWaltrip said:


> If anyone is struggling right now in these times of mourning you should call the Cecil berevment hotline 800-555-2468. We WILL make it through this! It will just take time.
> 
> 
> 
> Please donate to the Cecil memorial fund. R.i.p. Cec.


Please go away...
You were found out long ago...


----------



## Billie (Jul 1, 2004)

JWaltrip said:


> If anyone is struggling right now in these times of mourning you should call the Cecil berevment hotline 800-555-2468. We WILL make it through this! It will just take time.
> 
> 
> 
> Please donate to the Cecil memorial fund. R.i.p. Cec.


----------



## bg305 (Nov 27, 2011)

JWaltrip said:


> If anyone is struggling right now in these times of mourning you should call the Cecil berevment hotline 800-555-2468. We WILL make it through this! It will just take time.
> 
> 
> 
> Please donate to the Cecil memorial fund. R.i.p. Cec.


Shoot I'm not in mourning. I'm in saving right now, I want to go on the Jericho hunt at the end of the year. I figure the guide will be charging a little extra to cover attourny fees. :wink:


----------



## KS Bow Hunter (Nov 22, 2013)

Oh the fun never ends...


----------



## KS Bow Hunter (Nov 22, 2013)

Dentist is going back to work tomorrow. Seems like he is not going to be in any trouble...


----------



## Elvis_Is_Dead (Nov 25, 2009)

... can prevent this thread from dying forever!


----------



## PY Bucks (Feb 14, 2006)

KS Bow Hunter said:


> Dentist is going back to work tomorrow. Seems like he is not going to be in any trouble...


Heard he has a full body mount in his office and is charging admission.


----------



## TheScOuT (May 9, 2011)

Just saw on the news legislators introduced a bill that would ban importing animals deemed as trophy hunted. Not sure the full details, story ran on WSB here in Atlanta.


----------



## ghostgoblin22 (May 3, 2013)

TheScOuT said:


> Just saw on the news legislators introduced a bill that would ban importing animals deemed as trophy hunted. Not sure the full details, story ran on WSB here in Atlanta.


wont happen, too many grey areas on what everyone thinks what ''trophy hunting'' is


----------



## TheScOuT (May 9, 2011)

Yahoo News:
http://news.yahoo.com/video/cecil-l...DYmYxBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDRkZYVUk0MV8xBHNlYwNzcg--

"New Jersey senator Bob Menendez announced on Friday that he will be introducing an act to disincentivize trophy killings, named for the internationally mourned lion. The Conserving Ecosystems by Ceasing the Importation of Large (Cecil) Animal Trophies Act will extend import and export protections for species proposed to be listed under the Endangered Species Act. The US Fish and Wildlife Service proposed listing the lion as threatened under the act last October."


----------



## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

Conservative white males are more endangered than an African lion...


----------



## Billie (Jul 1, 2004)

TheScOuT said:


> Yahoo News:
> http://news.yahoo.com/video/cecil-l...DYmYxBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDRkZYVUk0MV8xBHNlYwNzcg--
> 
> "New Jersey senator Bob Menendez announced on Friday that he will be introducing an act to disincentivize trophy killings, named for the internationally mourned lion. The Conserving Ecosystems by Ceasing the Importation of Large (Cecil) Animal Trophies Act will extend import and export protections for species proposed to be listed under the Endangered Species Act. The US Fish and Wildlife Service proposed listing the lion as threatened under the act last October."


THIS twit of a politician is showing his lack of knowledge of the current laws. The CITES treaty handles this. And animals listed are already banned from importation.


----------



## KS Bow Hunter (Nov 22, 2013)

PY Bucks said:


> Heard he has a full body mount in his office and is charging admission.


That's awesome.


----------



## ridgehunter70 (Sep 30, 2012)

Billie said:


> THIS twit of a politician is showing his lack of knowledge of the current laws. The CITES treaty handles this. And animals listed are already banned from importation.


Easy on calling names. Some get offended real easy


----------



## Darrens6601 (Jul 16, 2015)

zap said:


> Conservative white males are more endangered than an African lion...


Man you got that right I've started wearing Kevlar everyplace I go .


----------



## Billie (Jul 1, 2004)

ridgehunter70 said:


> Easy on calling names. Some get offended real easy


IF bob menedez is offended by being called a TWIT for wasting the time on this crap instead of all the things he SHOULD be dealing with, then I will gladly discuss his "butt hurt" with him.


----------



## ridgehunter70 (Sep 30, 2012)

112 pgs and someone is concerned with waisting time. Smh lol


----------



## JWaltrip (Dec 30, 2006)

:


I like Meat said:


> Piss on that damn lion........its just an animal...... Babies are being pulled out of their mothers womb, skull's crushed and their body parts sold by nazi like clowns from planned parenthood, Isis is cutting off heads of hundreds of Christians, Boko Harum is kidnapping young girls and selling them on the black market, O'dipwad makes sure Iran will get nukes....and this lion CRAP is the headlines...WE ARE SO SCREWED!!


:violin:


----------



## eskimoohunt (Dec 21, 2008)

Did the dentist ever get his trophy though?


----------



## JWaltrip (Dec 30, 2006)

eskimoohunt said:


> Did the dentist ever get his trophy though?


I believe he did.


----------



## KS Bow Hunter (Nov 22, 2013)

Good read on Cecil the Lion here:

http://thedmonline.com/cecil-the-lion-unwarranted-outrage/


----------



## KRONIIK (Jun 3, 2014)

^ 
GREAT READ!

Thanks for posting.


----------



## namozine (Mar 15, 2013)

American mountain lions are a hell of a long way from extinct...
I guess I don't know what a " mountain deer's " and an " American cheetah " are...
Good points, but the writer needs to brush up on North American animals...


----------



## Mr. Man (Sep 19, 2011)

namozine said:


> American mountain lions are a hell of a long way from extinct...
> I guess I don't know what a " mountain deer's " and an " American cheetah " are...
> Good points, but the writer needs to brush up on North American animals...


Lol


----------



## KS Bow Hunter (Nov 22, 2013)

namozine said:


> American mountain lions are a hell of a long way from extinct...
> I guess I don't know what a " mountain deer's " and an " American cheetah " are...
> Good points, but the writer needs to brush up on North American animals...


Yeah, he did pretty good up until that last part...


----------



## Billie (Jul 1, 2004)

namozine said:


> American mountain lions are a hell of a long way from extinct...
> I guess I don't know what a " mountain deer's " and an " American cheetah " are...
> Good points, but the writer needs to brush up on North American animals...


Well the author is as knowledgable about NA wildlife as the majority of Americans are about African wildlife.


----------



## KS Bow Hunter (Nov 22, 2013)

Billie said:


> Well the author is as knowledgable about NA wildlife as the majority of Americans are about African wildlife.


Maybe...the problem isn't knowledge IMHO. NGOs and anti-hunters simply refuse to acknowledge fact and use logic, preferring to distort facts in an emotional plea to sway the public. Layer onto that a media that is more about page views than reporting facts, and you have a perfect storm...


----------



## JWaltrip (Dec 30, 2006)

KS Bow Hunter said:


> Maybe...the problem isn't knowledge IMHO. NGOs and anti-hunters simply refuse to acknowledge fact and use logic, preferring to distort facts in an emotional plea to sway the public. Layer onto that a media that is more about page views than reporting facts, and you have a perfect storm...


Yep, the dick should not have been publicly persecuted like he was. But he has poached in the past and anyone who thinks he pursued and killed that lion ethically is a fool. The dick knew exactly what was going on.:darkbeer:


----------



## jim p (Oct 29, 2003)

Cecil is dead.

Palmer is back in business.

Life is good.


----------



## Billie (Jul 1, 2004)

JWaltrip said:


> Yep, the dick should not have been publicly persecuted like he was. But he has poached in the past and anyone who thinks he pursued and killed that lion ethically is a fool. The dick knew exactly what was going on.:darkbeer:


Takes one to know one. What did you call him again? Oh..yeah....


----------



## I like Meat (Feb 14, 2009)

Waltrip is a born and bred jag off....Should have been banned from this site long ago.... No charges has ever been pressed against Mr. Palmer and yet this Watprip jerk still says he "poached" the damn lion...where's the proof there son ??


----------



## JWaltrip (Dec 30, 2006)

:elf_moon:


----------



## I like Meat (Feb 14, 2009)

Again with your childish crap ... MODS when will you wake up to this guy !!!!!! BAN HIM NOW !!


----------



## namozine (Mar 15, 2013)

I like Meat said:


> Again with your childish crap ... MODS when will you wake up to this guy !!!!!! BAN HIM NOW !!


I've had the same question...
WHY do they continue to let him post ???


----------



## KS Bow Hunter (Nov 22, 2013)

namozine said:


> I've had the same question...
> WHY do they continue to let him post ???


If you ban everyone on AT that doesn't agree with someone no one would be here!


----------



## Red Eye 81 (Feb 4, 2006)

KS Bow Hunter said:


> If you ban everyone on AT that doesn't agree with someone no one would be here!


Its not that he disagrees with people, its the way he disagrees......should have been gone for a while now.


----------



## KS Bow Hunter (Nov 22, 2013)

Red Eye 81 said:


> Its not that he disagrees with people, its the way he disagrees......should have been gone for a while now.


That was kind of a general statement I was making about all of us...


----------



## Elvis_Is_Dead (Nov 25, 2009)

KS Bow Hunter said:


> Good read on Cecil the Lion here:
> 
> http://thedmonline.com/cecil-the-lion-unwarranted-outrage/


I thought it was sickening anti-hunting drivel... especially the last paragraph. What extinction of the United States Mountain Lion (or Mountain deer for that matter)? Mt. Lions are overtly rampant in my state to the threat of children!



> The attention that was and still is given to this animal by Westerners should, in fact, alert the general public about animals vanishing in their habitats due to hunters killing them for trophies. This death could bring a focus on all species around the world that are currently in danger – not just the death of one animal.* How come the extinction of United States mountain lions*, American cheetahs, and mountain deers aren’t making daily headlines? Why are Americans more focused on the death of Cecil when the extinction of American animals happens every day but is given little to no media coverage? Wake up, America.


And the American Cheetah died off long before America became a nation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_cheetah


----------



## KS Bow Hunter (Nov 22, 2013)

Seriously? I just read that as someone who is just uninformed (clearly) trying to make a point to take care of all animals, not just one animal...if he was really anti-hunting he would have worded the article and the title completely differently...don't you think?


----------



## KS Bow Hunter (Nov 22, 2013)

Elvis_Is_Dead said:


> I thought it was sickening anti-hunting drivel... especially the last paragraph. What extinction of the United States Mountain Lion? They are overtly rampant in my state to the threat of children!


EiD you have to read the whole article, and also note that the author is a kid in college...the first half of the article was factual and accurate, and I thought spot on...she got the second half wrong, but I think the intent was correct...focus on Mother Nature as a whole, not a single lion...


----------



## KS Bow Hunter (Nov 22, 2013)

I like Meat said:


> Waltrip is a born and bred jag off....Should have been banned from this site long ago.... No charges has ever been pressed against Mr. Palmer and yet this Watprip jerk still says he "poached" the damn lion...where's the proof there son ??


So, Hillary Clinton is not currently under indictment so that means she is completely honest and ethical?


----------



## Elvis_Is_Dead (Nov 25, 2009)

KS Bow Hunter said:


> EiD you have to read the whole article, and also note that the author is a kid in college...the first half of the article was factual and accurate, and I thought spot on...she got the second half wrong, but I think the intent was correct...focus on Mother Nature as a whole, not a single lion...


Seeing how I quoted the last paragraph, what reason would you have to insinuate that I haven't read the whole article? :doh:


----------



## KS Bow Hunter (Nov 22, 2013)

Elvis_Is_Dead said:


> Seeing how I quoted the last paragraph, what reason would you have to insinuate that I haven't read the whole article? :doh:


Didn't insinuate anything. You posted only a part of the article. Simply stating that you need to read the whole thing. Including the title and the information about the author, and then decide what it says...


----------



## ridgehunter70 (Sep 30, 2012)

namozine said:


> I've had the same question...
> WHY do they continue to let him post ???


Because he gives *his* opinion. And just because you crybabies opinions don't line up with his then yall get the panties in a wad. Here's something to ponder your feeble Little minds on. (IT'S OK TO DISAGREE)


----------



## ridgehunter70 (Sep 30, 2012)

Red Eye 81 said:


> Its not that he disagrees with people, its the way he disagrees......should have been gone for a while now.


Wow! Didn't know there was a certain law on how to disagree with someone. Grow a pair and suck it up. My God some people


----------



## Elvis_Is_Dead (Nov 25, 2009)

KS Bow Hunter said:


> Didn't insinuate anything. You posted only a part of the article. Simply stating that you need to read the whole thing. Including the title and the information about the author, and then decide what it says...


You're right... you didn't insinuate. You flat out accused... hahaha.

Your take on that ridiculous ... uninformed... article is quite a bit different than mine... apparently.

The first part only states what is painfully obvious to anyone with half a brain. The only actual informative part is about how cecil got his name, and some history that anyone could find in a simple web search.

The reasoning for the article is simply to bash americans, and the last paragraph sums up the stupidity of the whole premise.

Only a simpleton would miss this.


----------



## Red Eye 81 (Feb 4, 2006)

ridgehunter70 said:


> Wow! Didn't know there was a certain law on how to disagree with someone. Grow a pair and suck it up. My God some people


Its OK to disagree with people, you just don't have to be a total d-bag in the process. This goes for you also.


----------



## KS Bow Hunter (Nov 22, 2013)

Elvis_Is_Dead said:


> You're right... you didn't insinuate. You flat out accused... hahaha.
> 
> You're take on that ridiculous ... uninformed... article is quite a bit different than mine... apparently.
> 
> ...


She is an American...


----------



## Elvis_Is_Dead (Nov 25, 2009)

KS Bow Hunter said:


> She is an American...


So... lots of americans load their fellow americans with white guilt.

I've been watching several AT folk do it right in this thread.

You actually think there is some meaning there? 

I don't.


----------



## KS Bow Hunter (Nov 22, 2013)

Elvis_Is_Dead said:


> So... lots of americans load their fellow americans with white guilt.
> 
> I've been watching several AT folk do it right in this thread.
> 
> ...


How this went from an interesting take on the American view of the death of a lion in Zimbabwe to this I have no idea...


----------



## Elvis_Is_Dead (Nov 25, 2009)

KS Bow Hunter said:


> How this went from an interesting take on the American view of the death of a lion in Zimbabwe to this I have no idea...


Simple... I disagree with your opinioin, explained why... and you respond with accusations that I didn't read the whole thing.

It's really not that comlicated, and the article is stupid... and definitely not interesting.


----------



## Mr. Man (Sep 19, 2011)

Elvis_Is_Dead said:


> Simple... I disagree with your opinioin, explained why... and you respond with accusations that I didn't read the whole thing.
> 
> It's really not that comlicated, and the article is stupid... and definitely not interesting.


Yep, stupid article. Let's compare killing lions to killing animals that either aren't endangered, or went extinct eons ago and are totally irrelevant to the discussion. It had a distinct anti-hunting flavor to it.


----------



## KS Bow Hunter (Nov 22, 2013)

Elvis_Is_Dead said:


> Simple... I disagree with your opinioin, explained why... and you respond with accusations that I didn't read the whole thing.
> 
> It's really not that comlicated, and the article is stupid... and definitely not interesting.


I can understand why you would say that...


----------



## ridgehunter70 (Sep 30, 2012)

It's also ok to not be a Nancy and let everything offend you. Everyone isn't going to rainbow and sugarcoat everything just for you and several others. Agreeing to dissagree


----------



## H20fwler (Apr 1, 2014)

namozine said:


> I've had the same question...
> WHY do they continue to let him post ???


I agree..has done nothing but troll on this thread and others. Some of it down right slander.


----------



## JWaltrip (Dec 30, 2006)

H20fwler said:


> I agree..has done nothing but troll on this thread and others. Some of it down right slander.


First off, you don't even know what slander means. And secondly Id like to think of myself as more of a garden gnome than a troll. However if playing devils advocate is trolling then I'm the biggest troll on AT. I like to separate myself from what I think are skewed points view by other hunters. :darkbeer:


----------



## namozine (Mar 15, 2013)

H20fwler said:


> I agree..has done nothing but troll on this thread and others. Some of it down right slander.


Exactly... 
We're just " Nancy's " and " crybabies " that need to " grow a pair " I guess...
There's disagreement and there's childish behavior...
Depends on how you were brought up I guess...


----------



## KRONIIK (Jun 3, 2014)

KS Bow Hunter said:


> EiD you have to read the whole article, and also note that the author is a kid in college...the first half of the article was factual and accurate, and I thought spot on...she got the second half wrong, but I think the intent was correct...focus on Mother Nature as a whole, not a single lion...


You're right. I skimmed it too carelessly and interpreted the last paragraph as sarcasm. 
The first part of the article was good, but it totally jumped the tracks later.
I retract my earlier opinion.


----------



## Billie (Jul 1, 2004)

JWaltrip said:


> First off, you don't even know what slander means. And secondly Id like to think of myself as more of a garden gnome than a troll. However if playing devils advocate is trolling then I'm the biggest troll on AT. I like to separate myself from what I think are skewed points view by other hunters. :darkbeer:


You are correct. You are a troll. 
And "devils advocate"? If that were true, you would be no different from every poster here. But it's not true. You never offer an opinion or info that would in anyway contribute to a logical discussion. Calling posters insulting names, offering insulting one liners as a rebuttal to a question, commenting on a subject with insults directed at any disagreeing opinion is NOT "playing devils advocate". Your posts are, by the very definition of the word, "trolling". If you want to prove me wrong, then engage in a real discussion. If not, you may resort to another insult and disappear until next time.


----------



## JWaltrip (Dec 30, 2006)

Billie said:


> You are correct. You are a troll.
> And "devils advocate"? If that were true, you would be no different from every poster here. But it's not true. You never offer an opinion or info that would in anyway contribute to a logical discussion. Calling posters insulting names, offering insulting one liners as a rebuttal to a question, commenting on a subject with insults directed at any disagreeing opinion is NOT "playing devils advocate". Your posts are, by the very definition of the word, "trolling". If you want to prove me wrong, then engage in a real discussion. If not, you may resort to another insult and disappear until next time.


You take yourself too seriously. We put little holes in paper and animals. Doesn't take a lot of logic. And is the Internet really worthy or capable of "logical discussion"? Based on this thread and others alike, I would say not. Rip Cecil. 

And it is gnome not troll. Love ya Bill.

Ks opener in am. Good luck all. Peace!


----------



## Billie (Jul 1, 2004)

JWaltrip said:


> You take yourself too seriously. We put little holes in paper and animals. Doesn't take a lot of logic. And is the Internet really worthy or capable of "logical discussion"? Based on this thread and others alike, I would say not. Rip Cecil.
> 
> And it is gnome not troll. Love ya Bill.
> 
> Ks opener in am. Good luck all. Peace!


No. Im not "taking myself seriously". I'm basing THIS post on reading YOUR posts on a variety of subjects in which your Insults are the only "discussion" you offer. I'm now expressing an opinion, of you, in a logical and truthful manor. And it has nothing to do with putting holes in anything. Yes, it IS possible to have logical discussions on the internet. They happen with alarming regularity. The fact that you have an opinion that they cannot, speaks volumes of your reasoning. 
Good luck on your opener.


----------



## NYS Archer (Nov 9, 2012)

47 pages of a bull**** pissing match


----------



## palmatedbuck04 (Nov 26, 2006)

NYS Archer said:


> 47 pages of a bull**** pissing match


With the same 3-4 people that just cant stay away


----------



## Billie (Jul 1, 2004)

palmatedbuck04 said:


> With the same 3-4 people that just cant stay away


More than 3 or 4. 5 or 6. 7 counting you.


----------



## Red Eye 81 (Feb 4, 2006)

JWaltrip said:


> You take yourself too seriously. We put little holes in paper and animals. Doesn't take a lot of logic. And is the Internet really worthy or capable of "logical discussion"? Based on this thread and others alike, I would say not. Rip Cecil.
> 
> And it is gnome not troll. Love ya Bill.
> 
> Ks opener in am. Good luck all. Peace!


See ya Darrell, you and Cecil can RIP together now.


----------



## Elvis_Is_Dead (Nov 25, 2009)

red eye 81 said:


> see ya darrell, you and cecil can rip together now.


lol


----------



## pope125 (Dec 11, 2013)

So is the Doctor in jail yet ?


----------



## namozine (Mar 15, 2013)

Red Eye 81 said:


> See ya Darrell, you and Cecil can RIP together now.


Bravo !!!
I'm going to toast this joyous occasion with an adult beverage, and fry up my last 2014 backstrap !!!


----------



## I like Meat (Feb 14, 2009)

pope125 said:


> So is the Doctor in jail yet ?


Nope, and he wont be it seems...he didnt do anything wrong as the evidence is showing....seems the only thing wrong was his guide/outfitter didnt have a permit for the area they were in, the doc didnt know that.....once again, the liberal media, animal rights activist's and others who fell for the lies(some are/were on here) blew the whole thing out of proportion ....nothing wrong with hunting lions or any of the big five or plains game for that matter as long as there are sustainable numbers that need managed and hunted to fulfill the quotas....


----------



## I like Meat (Feb 14, 2009)

namozine said:


> Bravo !!!
> I'm going to toast this joyous occasion with an adult beverage, and fry up my last 2014 backstrap !!!


I'm with you, couldnt have happened to a more deserving jackwagon ....


----------



## Ptoid (Mar 8, 2014)

One of the signs should sat "could you fit me in this week, this tooth here feels weird"


----------



## highwaynorth (Feb 17, 2005)

Elvis_Is_Dead said:


> So... lots of americans load their fellow americans with white guilt.
> 
> I've been watching several AT folk do it right in this thread.
> 
> ...


This is pretty much the mantra of the leftist Democratic party. They teach "white privilege" classes in college and have a hatred
towards America. Kind of like that guy sitting in the oval office right now.


----------



## archbunk (Mar 22, 2014)

Bet everyone would think differently about the lion if it attacked them. It is after all a wild animal not a pet. Too many people have unrealistic views on animal behavior and real life nature. All they get is what they see on tv. I feel sorry for the dentist because he is not to blame.


----------



## Rolo (Dec 16, 2002)

Wait...what...

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/1...illed-cecil-lion-wont-be-charged-in-zimbabwe/

I wonder if the apologies and crow will be as quickly to come as the uneducated condemnation was...



MattEilerman said:


> The outrage stems from a pretty point blank failure to follow the LAW. Plain and simple. Whether you agree with it or not he hunted the lion illegally. To me that is about as far removed from forming an opinion based on feelings as it can get. It's forming an opinion based upon the idea that I believe it is important to follow the law.





COArrow said:


> We have a bilateral treaty with Zimbabwe which makes extradition for offense the are common between our two countries easier. Also the issue for Palmer is not that it was lured out of the park, the issue is the land it was shot on, the owner was not allotted a lion tag for 2015. I have read numerous articles and researched the treaty. It is quite possible with the public outcry both here and abroad and the fact normal protocol is for all people involved to appear in court, it could certainly take place. US Fish and Game has offered to assist in anyway. That is in numerous articles as well. You are welcome to look into all of this yourself.





DougKMN said:


> Point blank, he shot it somewhere in which it wasn't legal.





Red Sparky said:


> I looked into my crystal ball and this is what I see happening. The public outcry over this is going to change the laws. The U.S. Government, through Congress or USFWS, is going to make the importation of lions and elephant parts illegal. You can go hunt them and kill them but you can't bring them back into the U.S.. Just like when wolves were on the endangered species list you could go hunt them in Canada and Alaska but could not bring them back into the lower 48.
> 
> Now who are you going to blame when this happens? A dentist that killed a lion, whether legal or not, and had a history of lying about killing a bear in a closed area and saying it was in an open area. He loaded the gun for PETA and aimed it at hunters with his actions. So support him if you want or light him up in the electric chair, call him a hunter or poacher, we are all going to pay for his stupidity/ignorance/ethics.





Red Sparky said:


> Well I guess we will get the whole story as they have started the process to extradite the dentist to Zimbabwe.





KS Bow Hunter said:


> Pretty simple really. The lion was illegally lured off of a preserve with bait, illegally shot with a cross bow, and apparently suffered for another 40 hours before he was disposed of with a rifle.
> 
> The hunter and the guide should both pay for the crime...
> 
> ...





Ptoid said:


> I actually am going to take one with my two year old
> 
> I did read that and it doesnt change my opinion- its wrong. Hunting may not hurt the population ( be careful about anyone encroaching upon an industry) but it cant help.
> 
> When my sons thirty five, what will he do with my lion mount of the then extinct african lion?





KS Bow Hunter said:


> The hunt has in fact been deemed illegal, as the lion was taken on a property without the proper permits or quotas, which is, illegal by definition. That is irrefutable at this point. What we don't know but I suspect is that the guy has some culpability. Why? Because a leopard doesn't change it's spots...
> 
> I could be wrong. If I am, and he is exonerated, I'll be the first to post on here that I was wrong. But if I'm right...





buckeyboy said:


> He poached the lion so conversation is over


I'm sure I may have missed some...


----------



## KS Bow Hunter (Nov 22, 2013)

Rolo said:


> Wait...what...
> 
> http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/1...illed-cecil-lion-wont-be-charged-in-zimbabwe/
> 
> ...


Oh boy, you are back...still waiting on that number... 

You of all people should know that the lack of prosecution in no way reflects the guilt of someone, especially when they are half a world away and it is negatively impacting the economy...

If you think he is innocent, by all means keep telling yourself that. Personally, I still believe as I always have, the guy bends the rules to his advantage...too much circumstantial and actual evidence to be coincidence.

I didn't think they would press charges and attempt to extradite, but I also didn't believe that would automatically reflect his innocence...

If we as hunters don't police ourselves, then those who have nothing to lose will...

Have a good night gloating...


----------



## Rolo (Dec 16, 2002)

KS Bow Hunter said:


> Oh boy, you are back...still waiting on that number...
> 
> You of all people should know that the lack of prosecution in no way reflects the guilt of someone, especially when they are half a world away and it is negatively impacting the economy...
> 
> ...


Of course, when the government says he is not being prosecuted because there is no crime to prosecute him for...well yeah, that tends to mean he is innocent. I mean by definition, if there is no crime to be charged with, on has to be innocent. 

How can someone be guilty of a crime that does not exist?


----------



## namozine (Mar 15, 2013)

Rolo said:


> Wait...what...
> 
> http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/1...illed-cecil-lion-wont-be-charged-in-zimbabwe/
> 
> ...


Thanks for the link...
Nothing that most of us didn't already think...
I'm sure the ones that were ready to lynch him will show up any second, aren't you ???
Some, however, will be narcissistic enough to still say he's guilty... A trio comes to mind... However, they've been reduced to a duo since their buddy jwaltrip has been booted off AT...
The other half of the duo will show up any minute...


----------



## KMA (Sep 29, 2015)

Jwaltrip was the leader of the clownboy pack it seemed...glad he is gone .... where are the apologies from the rest...or they will still have some asinine excuse and accusations blaming the hunter ?


----------



## namozine (Mar 15, 2013)

KMA said:


> Jwaltrip was the leader of the clownboy pack it seemed...glad he is gone .... where are the apologies from the rest...or they will still have some asinine excuse and accusations blaming the hunter ?


The one I'm waiting for will DEFINITELY have the same opinion he had before...
I bet you know who I mean !!! LOL !!!


----------



## Mr. Man (Sep 19, 2011)

KMA said:


> Jwaltrip was the leader of the clownboy pack it seemed...glad he is gone .... where are the apologies from the rest...or they will still have some asinine excuse and accusations blaming the hunter ?


Just go back up a few posts, and you'll see one. Same guy that always tries to come off so smart, with his petulant comments.


----------



## palmatedbuck04 (Nov 26, 2006)

KS Bow Hunter said:


> Oh boy, you are back...still waiting on that number...
> 
> You of all people should know that the lack of prosecution in no way reflects the guilt of someone, especially when they are half a world away and it is negatively impacting the economy...
> 
> ...


Some just cant admit they were wrong


----------



## Okie X (Dec 3, 2005)

Cecil who?

Dentist what?

???


----------



## Challenger (Nov 4, 2007)

Rolo said:


> Wait...what...
> 
> http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/1...illed-cecil-lion-wont-be-charged-in-zimbabwe/
> 
> ...


I saw all of these posts, posts on other forums, comments on news sites and argued with family to wait until all the facts came out............................


----------



## Ptoid (Mar 8, 2014)

Yes hes not going to be charged. Youre right. But he did get busted for close to the same thing with the bear. Doesnt mean he should be charged. Does mean hes the jerk that pushes the limits and breaks the law if he needs to. He probably knew that the guides were cheating but no one could prove it. Not a criminal (this time) just a jerk i wouldnt want to have around me.


----------



## KS Bow Hunter (Nov 22, 2013)

Rolo said:


> Of course, when the government says he is not being prosecuted because there is no crime to prosecute him for...well yeah, that tends to mean he is innocent. I mean by definition, if there is no crime to be charged with, on has to be innocent.
> 
> How can someone be guilty of a crime that does not exist?


I'm certain you are smarter than that, and that even you have a modicum of doubt about the good dentist. 

Of course Zimbabwe said they were not going to prosecute, because saying they were would be nothing more than an exercise in futility and would be bad for business. However, not prosecuting or filing charges does not in fact exonerate the dentist from wrong doing. It just means he got away with it this time...

I think it is tragic what happened to his life and property, though I doubt his complete innocence. No one hunts that much all over the world, and gets caught previously and is oblivious.

The posted article is even contradictory to others, so who really knows? It isn't even accurate. Here, they say he is welcome back to Zimbabwe, but not to hunt...I wonder why that is?

http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/12/africa/zimbabwe-cecil-lion-walter-palmer-no-charges/index.html

I'm fine if folks want to defend him, that's everyone's choice. He wouldn't hunt with me and my family...I've seen the type before in many many years of taking guests to Kansas...

It's over, no longer news, so I'm out on this one...

I do find it extremely ironic how the AT crowd supports someone based on media reports while criticizing the same media as being liberal and inaccurate.

It's been an interesting spectacle to watch...and debate...or argue....


----------



## KMA (Sep 29, 2015)

Yep, the haters are back (Ptoid and others ).... what does the friggin bear have to do with his Lion hunt.... your spinning is nothing but conjecture......


----------



## ozarksbuckslaye (Jul 24, 2008)

I noticed the 48 pages and just popped in to make sure Cecil was still dead. I hate cats. They're not even good to eat.


----------



## KMA (Sep 29, 2015)

ever Had Mt. Lion Steak ....MMmmmmm


----------



## ozarksbuckslaye (Jul 24, 2008)

KMA said:


> ever Had Mt. Lion Steak ....MMmmmmm


 Nope but I hear Ted Nugent is a fan of it.

I got drunk and ate a hoot owl once. From what I recall it was pretty decent.


----------



## Mr. Man (Sep 19, 2011)

KS Bow Hunter said:


> I'm certain you are smarter than that, and that even you have a modicum of doubt about the good dentist.
> 
> Of course Zimbabwe said they were not going to prosecute, because saying they were would be nothing more than an exercise in futility and would be bad for business. However, not prosecuting or filing charges does not in fact exonerate the dentist from wrong doing. It just means he got away with it this time...
> 
> ...


Got away with what? Please explain in detail exactly what it is you think he got away with.


----------



## Billie (Jul 1, 2004)

KS Bow Hunter said:


> I'm certain you are smarter than that, and that even you have a modicum of doubt about the good dentist.
> 
> Of course Zimbabwe said they were not going to prosecute, because saying they were would be nothing more than an exercise in futility and would be bad for business. However, not prosecuting or filing charges does not in fact exonerate the dentist from wrong doing. It just means he got away with it this time...
> 
> ...


I find it ironic that hunters condemned another hunter based on immediate biased news reports from an animal rights group. 
I find it even MORE ironic that after the government of a country in which the event took place exonerated him of all wrongdoing, some STILL says he's guilty of something.


----------



## paulgeorges (Nov 22, 2008)

KS Bow Hunter said:


> I do find it extremely ironic how the AT crowd supports someone based on media reports while criticizing the same media as being liberal and inaccurate.
> 
> It's been an interesting spectacle to watch...and debate...or argue....




We support someone based of decision justice that' s all .

Apparently some guy can t respect the justice institution and prefer the BS of Media .


----------



## Ptoid (Mar 8, 2014)

KMA said:


> Yep, the haters are back (Ptoid and others ).... what does the friggin bear have to do with his Lion hunt.... your spinning is nothing but conjecture......


Im back bc we were asked where we went now that he was cleared. Doesnt mean hes not a jerk. I wouldnt hunt with him after the bear nonsense. Its called having morals.


----------



## namozine (Mar 15, 2013)

Still waiting for one more to chime in... Lol!


----------



## BigDeer (Aug 9, 2005)




----------



## Billie (Jul 1, 2004)

Ptoid said:


> Im back bc we were asked where we went now that he was cleared. Doesnt mean hes not a jerk. I wouldnt hunt with him after the bear nonsense. Its called having morals.


It was never about if you wanted to hunt with him or not. I doubt many of us could afford it. It was about a hunter who did nothing LEGALLY wrong that was slandered and demeaned by millions because they believed a lie. MORALS? Theres your morality.


----------



## H20fwler (Apr 1, 2014)

It is almost insane that there are "hunters" on here that still think this guy did something wrong even after he has been cleared!
Reminds me of the far left liberals thinking it has to be their way and their way only.............Pfffft


----------



## Rolo (Dec 16, 2002)

KS Bow Hunter said:


> I'm certain you are smarter than that, and that even you have a modicum of doubt about the good dentist.


About what? In this case, as was plainly stated by the government officials, he did not commit a crime. There was no crime for him to have committed based on the evidence. There is no evidence that he committed some other crime. Seems all reasonable doubt has been eliminated. What I may or may not personally feel about some guy I have never met and really know nothing about, other than by general disdain for dentists, is not relevant, nor was it ever relevant. 



KS Bow Hunter said:


> Of course Zimbabwe said they were not going to prosecute, because saying they were would be nothing more than an exercise in futility and would be bad for business. However, not prosecuting or filing charges does not in fact exonerate the dentist from wrong doing. It just means he got away with it this time...


Why the senseless doubling down on bad analogy and analysis? The government officials have been quoted by numerous news agencies stating that there was not a crime that he could have committed based on the facts and evidence. You see, as was pointed our in this thread, the law places those responsibilities on the professional hunters and land owners so that folks from foreign countries do not violate get caught up in the mess. 

So, what again did he get away with? Back to the absolute guilt of something that you can't even tell us what the crime was. Novel. Not sure why you are so emotionally invested in this guy...it's kinda weird...



KS Bow Hunter said:


> I think it is tragic what happened to his life and property, though I doubt his complete innocence. No one hunts that much all over the world, and gets caught previously and is oblivious.


See above, and attempt to educate yourself on the foreign laws that apply. Seriously, he had a permit, and the PH said that they could kill the lion on that property and that the landowner had a permit based on representations of the LO. Um yeah...he got caught previously in the U.S. where the laws and responsibilities of the laws are different. Do you expect all folks who travel internationally to be able to read the language on the permits too? What mor was he to do?

As far as his property, yeah...that occurred because a lot of people read inaccurate and incomplete information, never bother to educate themselves about the information, and formed unintelligent opinions that morphed to their own reality about that information...those opinions being that this guy absolutely did something wrong, broke the law, could not have been than oblivious...hey wait...that's you...your faulty reasoning was the same reasoning that those folks who damaged his property used...you were part of and contributed to that tragedy... 



KS Bow Hunter said:


> The posted article is even contradictory to others, so who really knows? It isn't even accurate. Here, they say he is welcome back to Zimbabwe, but not to hunt...I wonder why that is?
> 
> http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/12/africa/zimbabwe-cecil-lion-walter-palmer-no-charges/index.html


Actually, if you care to comprehend that article you posted, you will see that there are no direct quotes from any government official talking about any specific crime, or whether there was in fact a crime to have been violated at all. The only quote in your article deals with someone talking about him returning as a tourist. Now if you care to look at the link I posted, or other news articles from other news organizations, you will see a number of direct quotes from government officials that say there was no crime that he could have violated.

You do understand the significance of these things "" don't you?



KS Bow Hunter said:


> I'm fine if folks want to defend him, that's everyone's choice. He wouldn't hunt with me and my family...I've seen the type before in many many years of taking guests to Kansas...


Back to the straw argument, and an utter unwillingness to attempt to understand that it was never about defending him...Oh, I don't care who you chose to hunt with or why...but it does say a lot about you that you are so willing and eager to make value judgments about someone you have never met, talked too, or otherwise attempted to get to know...but instead rely on what has been publicized by folks who have a similar agenda...



KS Bow Hunter said:


> I do find it extremely ironic how the AT crowd supports someone based on media reports while criticizing the same media as being liberal and inaccurate.
> 
> It's been an interesting spectacle to watch...and debate...or argue....


I find it extremely ironic and idiotic the lengths that some folks will go to to not admit they got it wrong, made a mistake, and unfortunately hitched their respective ride to an utterly false narrative that was void of fact and evidence, and contained only emotion that lead them to so quickly condemn...

It's even more ironic when folks say: "I could be wrong. If I am, and he is exonerated, I'll be the first to post on here that I was wrong. But if I'm right... "

He was exonerated...you were wrong...but you have yet to admit that you were...I guess folks can draw conclusions from that too...




KS Bow Hunter said:


> It's over, no longer news, so I'm out on this one...


Now that right there is just a special piece of stupid. First, it should be news, and it should be bigger news than the original fiasco because of all of the misinformation contained in the original story and the damage and harm that was done to the dentist and those associated with him, which includes his employees that had to put up with the imbeciles. But, because it does not fit their and your narrative, let's just move on because that's easier...and you never have to take responsibility for your part in that...

You're seriously going to make the decision about your fight based on whether it is "news" or not? You call yourself a hunter, and yet when a fellow hunter is exonerated the mob mentality, instead of choosing to admit you were wrong, you double down and continue to cling to a fictional belief of wrongdoing. So the hunter is exonerated and you don't care...you're not willing or capable of stating you were wrong and also supporting the system and the act of legal hunting...That may be the epitome of what hypocritical is... 

There's an old saying about it's better to let people wonder by remaining quiet rather than speaking and removing all doubt...you might want to check into it...


----------



## Billie (Jul 1, 2004)

Rolo said:


> About what? In this case, as was plainly stated by the government officials, he did not commit a crime. There was no crime for him to have committed based on the evidence. There is no evidence that he committed some other crime. Seems all reasonable doubt has been eliminated. What I may or may not personally feel about some guy I have never met and really know nothing about, other than by general disdain for dentists, is not relevant, nor was it ever relevant.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That about covers it.


----------



## palmatedbuck04 (Nov 26, 2006)

No crime,cleared of any wrong doing.its as if nothing happened and KS bowhunter still has an opinion formed on somebody he has never met or could probably pull out of a line up.boy i bet you would like to have this guy on a jury Rolo


----------



## Rolo (Dec 16, 2002)

palmatedbuck04 said:


> No crime,cleared of any wrong doing.its as if nothing happened and KS bowhunter still has an opinion formed on somebody he has never met or could probably pull out of a line up.boy i bet you would like to have this guy on a jury Rolo


Well that depends on which side I was on...and whether he knew it was me...I have well grounded suspicion that he would be against my client regardless of the facts or evidence or law because those things don't really seem to matter...it's much more of a how he feels emotionally and what not thing...and well, he sure don't like me too much, so the facts, evidence, law wouldn't matter too much either...


----------



## I like Meat (Feb 14, 2009)

Haters gonna hate !! ....Ignorance is bliss to some I guess ....


----------



## Toonces (Dec 16, 2008)

I just think the internet is bad. People weren't meant to have access to this this much data (true, false or otherwise) this fast. We aren't equipped to handle it and don't have any idea how respond it to rationally.


----------



## Ptoid (Mar 8, 2014)

Do you think the Zimbabwean authorities have any motive to press charges on this dude when it could threaten their hunting industry? Of course it was all the guides fault. 

I bet half of you guys wouldnt think you would get a fair shake from the authorities there if you were arrested for a crime. So why are you doing a victory dance after they found no charges? Just a thought.


----------



## Kansas Bruisers (Dec 14, 2006)

Ptoid said:


> Do you think the Zimbabwean authorities have any motive to press charges on this dude when it could threaten their hunting industry? Of course it was all the guides fault.
> 
> I bet half of you guys wouldnt think you would get a fair shake from the authorities there if you were arrested for a crime. So why are you doing a victory dance after they found no charges? Just a thought.


If they had solid evidence he poached a lion and charged him, how would that threaten their hunting industry? Do you really think people that legally hunt Africa would stop going because another American was charged with poaching? I would think any hunter would want Zim to charge someone if there was evidence they had poached an animal.

Now, if they charged him based on the outcry from idiot Americans that don't hunt and without any evidence, that could kill their hunting industry.


----------



## Billie (Jul 1, 2004)

Ptoid said:


> Do you think the Zimbabwean authorities have any motive to press charges on this dude when it could threaten their hunting industry? Of course it was all the guides fault.
> 
> I bet half of you guys wouldnt think you would get a fair shake from the authorities there if you were arrested for a crime. So why are you doing a victory dance after they found no charges? Just a thought.


Please do your research before you post things like that. If you had actually checked, you would find that the ZIM. Government thought that while they had millions of Americans hooked on this crap, they would cash in. So they stopped ALL big game hunting in ZIM. And asked for the good animal lovers all over the world, which means the US, to donate an equal amount of money to them that they would have made off of sport hunting. It didn't happen. PETA and HSUS didn't give them one dime. So guess what? They woke up and reopened hunting back up for the rich evil white hunters again. If anyone screwed their hunting it was them. This DENTIST was just a pawn in a Hugh game of BS. It WAS the PHs fault. He paid for it. A fine of 400$. Yeah. That's how serious the ZIM government takes this.


----------



## Ptoid (Mar 8, 2014)

Kansas Bruisers said:


> If they had solid evidence he poached a lion and charged him, how would that threaten their hunting industry? Do you really think people that legally hunt Africa would stop going because another American was charged with poaching? I would think any hunter would want Zim to charge someone if there was evidence they had poached an animal.
> 
> Now, if they charged him based on the outcry from idiot Americans that don't hunt and without any evidence, that could kill their hunting industry.


1st point agreed. However with the publicity of this case it threatens the industry. Who wants to go there put ur reputation in albeit superficial and childish social context and perhaps ur livelihood in question to shoot a lion? Another similar incident would revive the story and the media loves that. So yea i think a conviction would have and i suspect there will be fewer hinters going tom zimbabwe. Just a guess.


----------



## Ptoid (Mar 8, 2014)

Billie said:


> Please do your research before you post things like that. If you had actually checked, you would find that the ZIM. Government thought that while they had millions of Americans hooked on this crap, they would cash in. So they stopped ALL big game hunting in ZIM. And asked for the good animal lovers all over the world, which means the US, to donate an equal amount of money to them that they would have made off of sport hunting. It didn't happen. PETA and HSUS didn't give them one dime. So guess what? They woke up and reopened hunting back up for the rich evil white hunters again. If anyone screwed their hunting it was them. This DENTIST was just a pawn in a Hugh game of BS. It WAS the PHs fault. He paid for it. A fine of 400$. Yeah. That's how serious the ZIM government takes this.


Sorry i didnt research well enough for you. Indulge my logic anyway for yah yahs. 

According to you they acted purely out of financial interest when they shut hunting down and once again when they reopened. Agreed. No money from hunters or peta. 

Ten days after closing they were open again but still blaming palmer and wanted to extradite him. 

But they waited till now to clear him. Why? 

Business is probably not so good. Blaming him didnt pay. Clearing him could help. At least you know you wont get charged for your guides crimes. 

Hate to be that guy but once busted for illegal boundary issues with the bear then accused again with a lion i tend to think he probably knew or participated in the illegal activity( not that it matters). 

So yes i agree they played the whole thing for the money but that doesnt mean he was innocent. My instincts dont make him guilty either. 

They manipulated his position the whole time. Considering its a relatively poor country im not surprised.


----------



## B4L Okie (Dec 6, 2011)

Note to self::: DO NOT ARGUE WITH Rolo!¡

Seriously, great response


----------



## KMA (Sep 29, 2015)

Ptoid said:


> Sorry i didnt research well enough for you. Indulge my logic anyway for yah yahs.
> 
> According to you they acted purely out of financial interest when they shut hunting down and once again when they reopened. Agreed. No money from hunters or peta.
> 
> ...


Nothing but conjecture...... give it a rest dude .... Billie and Rolo, blow your BS away ....


----------



## Mr. Man (Sep 19, 2011)

So, did KS Bow Hunter give up the ghost? You can only take so much of a beating.


----------



## Billie (Jul 1, 2004)

Ptoid said:


> Sorry i didnt research well enough for you. Indulge my logic anyway for yah yahs.
> 
> According to you they acted purely out of financial interest when they shut hunting down and once again when they reopened. Agreed. No money from hunters or peta.
> 
> ...


Again, the gov of ZIM NEVER wanted to extradite him. EVER. The only report of that was from a minister of environment who had NO authority to speak on behalf of the government. This was the same minister that said bowhunting was illegal on ZIM., although it's been legal for decades. Our own state dept. Confirmed this, because the dentist contacted THEM when that story was reported. 
And he's cleared now not because of any monetary reason, but because the court date came, the hearing was completed, the PH was fined 400$ for sloppy paperwork, and the case was closed, with the ZIM government stating the American had done nothing illegal.


----------



## Norwegian Woods (Apr 23, 2006)

Rolo said:


> About what? In this case, as was plainly stated by the government officials, he did not commit a crime. There was no crime for him to have committed based on the evidence. There is no evidence that he committed some other crime. Seems all reasonable doubt has been eliminated. What I may or may not personally feel about some guy I have never met and really know nothing about, other than by general disdain for dentists, is not relevant, nor was it ever relevant.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Great post.


----------



## palmatedbuck04 (Nov 26, 2006)

Mr. Man said:


> So, did KS Bow Hunter give up the ghost? You can only take so much of a beating.


He is consulting with an attorney


----------



## Mr. Man (Sep 19, 2011)

palmatedbuck04 said:


> He is consulting with an attorney


I'm sure he's one of the best. Everything else he has or does is.


----------



## jim p (Oct 29, 2003)

Never argue with a fool. He will drag you down to his level and then beat you with experience.

The dentist is not being charged. 

Now if only these who continue to cry fowl will be prosecuted.


----------



## namozine (Mar 15, 2013)

Still waiting on one more !!!
Guess he's not gonna show up...


----------



## Billie (Jul 1, 2004)

namozine said:


> Still waiting on one more !!!
> Guess he's not gonna show up...


It was several more, and while they are active on other forums and topics, they are completely silent now on this thread. Some of them resorted to personal insults when I presented links to reports that proved this man did not break any laws. Even statements from park and government officials that this lion was legally killed only got more obnoxious replies. My suggestions that they should look beyond the animal rights group made up lies and actually wait until the investigation was complete was dismissed and all of us that condoned that line were called "rabid", "blind" and "hypocrites" for defending a "known poacher". 
I would like to think that, although no apology is ever going to be offered for the personal stuff, they would now at least offer an admission that they based this opinion on false information. That would be a civil thing to do. But I see some STILL arguing that this man is guilty, or none of this would have ever happened. The fact that these posters are HUNTERS is ever sadder.


----------



## namozine (Mar 15, 2013)

Billie said:


> It was several more, and while they are active on other forums and topics, they are completely silent now on this thread. Some of them resorted to personal insults when I presented links to reports that proved this man did not break any laws. Even statements from park and government officials that this lion was legally killed only got more obnoxious replies. My suggestions that they should look beyond the animal rights group made up lies and actually wait until the investigation was complete was dismissed and all of us that condoned that line were called "rabid", "blind" and "hypocrites" for defending a "known poacher".
> I would like to think that, although no apology is ever going to be offered for the personal stuff, they would now at least offer an admission that they based this opinion on false information. That would be a civil thing to do. But I see some STILL arguing that this man is guilty, or none of this would have ever happened. The fact that these posters are HUNTERS is ever sadder.


He got in on the other thread !!!
And, like the others, still sees a guilty man...
Par for the course, I reckon...


----------



## Billie (Jul 1, 2004)

namozine said:


> He got in on the other thread !!!
> And, like the others, still sees a guilty man...
> Par for the course, I reckon...


Yes. Using insults is a common thing on forums, but most adults know the limits. Words like moron, idiot, stupid, and ignorant are allowed, and this particular poster has used all of them, so he was aware of the rules. Intentionally saying what he did was unacceptable. I've said it before, and I'm sure I will again. The mods do a great job, but I don't envy them handling it!


----------



## rackmasterlgw (Mar 16, 2007)

> Billie
> It was several more, and while they are active on other forums and topics, they are completely silent now on this thread. Some of them resorted to personal insults when I presented links to reports that proved this man did not break any laws. Even statements from park and government officials that this lion was legally killed only got more obnoxious replies. My suggestions that they should look beyond the animal rights group made up lies and actually wait until the investigation was complete was dismissed and all of us that condoned that line were called "rabid", "blind" and "hypocrites" for defending a "known poacher".
> I would like to think that, although no apology is ever going to be offered for the personal stuff, they would now at least offer an admission that they based this opinion on false information. That would be a civil thing to do. But I see some STILL arguing that this man is guilty, or none of this would have ever happened. The fact that these posters are HUNTERS is ever sadder.


Well said but pretty sure these guys are not real hunters.


----------

