# BADLANDS "unconditional Warranty"??? is this acceptable???



## archery4life (May 14, 2003)

Not trying to be too picky but would like some others peoples opinions on the service I was provided and the repair of their "Unconditional Warranty”. Wanted to make sure I wasn't over reacting before I asked for a new pack since they wouldn't fix my pack like new and decided to rig it!

I have Badlands 2200 and it's the older model. I bought to this primarily to load my double bull blind and treestands, as well as to pack out Elk, Deer, and stuff like that, (which I have done plenty of).

Last year during my August Deer hunt I was packing in a lot of weight (using it like it should be used) and had my tree stand loaded on it when the shoulder strap completely BROKE off!!! It broke right at the stitching where it's sewed into the pack at the bottom.
I was miles in with a loooaaaaded pack and 1 shoulder strap to get me back. I was a bit upset to say the least at that point! Thank goodness I had a 2nd pack with me back at the truck for the rest of the week! 

After my deer hunt I contacted Badlands and talked to the owner I believe. I stressed I had an Elk hunt coming up in a couple of weeks and I ABSOLUTELY HAD to have it back SOON. He assured me I would. I pleaded with him to ensure it would get back to me, charge my card and send me a new one right away if they couldn't fix it, and a couple other options, just trying anything to get a 2200 back in my hands ASAP! He said they don't typically replace with new ones because there are a lot of people just looking to get newer model packs, but not directly accusing me, but he basically did…... He assured me it would be to me in time and no worries. 

I told him what was wrong and he said they would fix it and it would look just like new. I specifically asked him if they would tear apart the stitching, re-insert the webbing and re-sew like it was new. He said "yes" they would and they had to replace the entire length of strap as it went through to the inside of the pack. I verified again and he assured me it would be repaired like new. I tried to tell him I'd send pics but he didn't care to see them, and didn’t seem to empathize with my extremely stressful current position, and I felt no urgency from him given my circumstances. I told him my zippers were pretty bent and were about to go. He told be they would replace ALL zippers as well. Unfortunately I believed everything he had to say...........

I sent it in and called them 2 days after it was signed for at the address sent. They couldn't find it for a couple of days even though I show it was signed for. I called back a few more times and got different information from different people I spoketo, when they actually got it, when it was shipped and so on. The gentleman I spoke to was supposed to email me a confirmation shipping number but never did. Called a week later and finally got it but was lied to when it shipped (different days).

I had just a couple days to go until my hunt when it was supposed to be to my house. Left work early to go home and wait for it the day it was supposed to arrive. I followed the tracking info and waited all day. Checked tracking info again and after 5:00pm it showed it was delivered and left at front door! Called FedEx and they told me the address they left it at and it wasn't my address! I ran up and down the block for an hour trying to find it on someone else’s’ doorstep. It was a nonexistent address I found out later which should have been a few houses over if it did exist. By this point Badlands was closed and FedEx would not help me or give me any info because I was not the shipper. Waited until Monday (looooonnnggg weekend) and talked to Badlands. FedEx found the package ( at their location and was never dropped of like the computer info said) and it got to me the DAY before I was leaving! It turned out that Badlands typed the address in wrong when when they were creating the shipping label back to me even though they had my correct address in their system. I was pretty stressed for those couple weeks. :mg:

I opened up the package and zippers were NOT replaced, and I saw their handy work. There was a note saying they could not fix it like it should be because they couldn't get the sewing machine in there. Along with that was this goofy and very insulting story about good backpacks die they go to heaven and get replaced but only if they can't be repaired and on and on..... To me it just added more salt to the wound! I have all the names, dates, and detailed info for the record when I contact them. So after a couple of weeks of being incredibly stressed, felt like I was lied to multiple times, and waiting on a hope and prayer, here is what I got back. 

Not to mention both of my zippers are now broken for the primary compartment and it takes a lot of leverage to open and close those on a stuffed pack! At this point I am just done with Badlands and looking to purchase a couple of Eberlestocks to replace them, actually just bought an X2, so only one more to go :teeth:. The problem now is that with their so called repair I probably lost at least 30% off the used value I'm guessing due to their handy work when I actually sell it. I haven’t even been able to get $100.00 for this pack so far due to their “unconditional warranty repair ”! I have no confidence left in Badlands after all of this and would NEVER send another pack back for repair. I'd sew it myself or take it locally and have a better repair done. So after all of that I could have just gone to my local seamstress, paid less than I did for shipping to them, saved a TON of stress by getting it back in a few days and had it remain local with a better looking repair job! 

Am I over reacting? Is ANY of this acceptable? Would any of you be happy if you were in my shoes? Just looking for honest responses of how you would feel should this happen to you? I haven't contacted them yet as it still burns me just thinking about it. I want to make sure I am justifiable in my concerns for the repairs provided by Badlands. My thought is if they are ok with this type of service and caliber of repair then what’s the point and maybe Badlands just isn’t for me. 

First pic is the good side and how it looked initially. The next two are the front and back of their repairs.


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## Frederick D. Be (Mar 3, 2009)

Actually no...I currently have 4 of their products and that was one of the reasons I purchased them. If they are damaged in any way they are supposed to fix them and make it right. I suppose they do not get too many fix it jobs because their products are pretty well made but this is not acceptable in my books. Sorry you got treated poorly. CS goes a long way even when it is bad...hopefully it will be good CS. Cheers!
Fred


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## foxbo (Apr 2, 2006)

Sounds like very poor customer service to me. Did you purchase the pack new and how old is it? That would be one of the first questions I'd wonder about. On a side note, you are stressing yourself way too much over a stupid pack. It's not good for your health. Before I'd get that stressed, I'd toss the sob and puchase something new.


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## JINKSTER (Mar 19, 2011)

man they got ballz sending you out a hokey fix like that..i'm not a high country elk hunter such as youself but if i were?..being a former marine?..i dont know but..i think i'd try an stick with "milspec" packs/racks..those old alice packs were actually pretty sweet and i bet things have only gotten better..just a thought.


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## z28melissa (Feb 8, 2007)

I also sent a pack in for repairs and had it returned "repaired" but not the way it was constructed before it broke and its missing a piece. The way they repaired mine, I can almost guarantee it will break again within a year at the same spot. I love their guarantee and repair program and their CS was super helpful, but the repair itself will not likely hold up and I don't put my pack through that much abuse.

I would not be happy with that repair - especially for a bigger/heavier pack that you'll really rely on.


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## rutjunky (May 22, 2011)

Unacceptable. The warrenty is there for a reason and it sure as crap dont say " if it breaks we'll rig it up" i would call back guns blazin man. You deserve a new pack if they cant fix it CORRECTLY.


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## Porterhouse83 (Jun 18, 2011)

I now know not to buy a badlands. CS is what I'm about. there are other good packs on the market.


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## RickinMo (Nov 14, 2002)

No You are not over reacting they promised to fix it and that isn't fixed.
I am very disappointed in the way they dealt with you I own 2 badlands packs and a quiver. 
The reason I bought them over the other brands is was the BADLANDS unconditional Warranty.
Now I'm not so sure I made the right decision
Rick


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## ultraclassic01 (Mar 10, 2006)

I agree with you 100%. I had a similar situation and I actually sent the company the forum site that it was posted on both archery talk and bow hunting. That really provided some quick results from the company. Now companies have a chance to hear what people really have to say about them. Good and bad!!!!!! especially and bad customer service. I love hearing stories like yours because this is what the real world is like. If they would lose one sale because of your comments and the way they treated you, I would be happy!


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## Ohbowhunter815 (Jul 19, 2010)

Badlands will not be an option for me in the future. They are deceiving people with an unconditional warranty that boost their sales bc thats a huge selling point to me and they wont honor it. Hopefully all companys will take these open forums and information sharing resources into account before attempting to get over on someone else.


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## screen_abq (Aug 20, 2003)

i bought a ultraday last year. i taken it out a few times. the side zippers are junk. dont stay zipped. i will proably take it to REI to get it fixed. By the i pay shipping cost. It is cheaper to get it fixed in town. i am with you. i am going to buy a x2 before hunting season.


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## ArcherAdam (Nov 27, 2007)

Unacceptable--They advertise the warranty for both new and used packs. They have to live with their end of the bargain. You should get a new pack instead of a cute little letter.

I am concerned with Badlands now. IMO their accessories and clip system are junk, production is in Vietnam to save $, and they now have big names on the prostaff ($ need to go to quality). 

I am a happy owner of a 2200 and hopefully will never have to go through what you went through. Before seeing this though--my next pack is still an Eberlestock.


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## Mr. Bill (Dec 5, 2007)

You are not wrong. If someone wants to see an example of a great "Unconditional warranty" buy Vortex optics. I've used their warranty because of my own stupidity and they stand behind it with pleasure. 

Thanks for the heads up.


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## stuckbuck (Dec 31, 2006)

Got me concerned now... I love the looks of workmanship on my 2200 but I wont lie, one of the reason I dropped 220. on this badlands is the unconditional warranty!!!


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## bernies boy (Aug 1, 2010)

Thanks for posting this, I'm in the market for a pack for this season and was looking at a Badlands. I'll look else where.


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## Babooze (Jan 5, 2008)

That is just plain WRONG! Unconditional means unconditional!


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## 13bonatter69 (Dec 23, 2007)

All I can say is go eberlystock, and you will not be treated that way. I have switched out my badlands for eberlystocks, and only have the moster fanny pack to go. As soon as I decide what model eberlystock I want to replace the monster with its gone too!


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## lc12 (Jul 30, 2009)

I guess that is how they fix things in Vietnam!!!


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## WYelkhunter (Mar 26, 2006)

Can't believe how many people buy a badlands pack just because of the "special warranty". I haven't found a quality pack maker yet that doesn't have the same warranty as badlands (Kifaru, Mystery Ranch, Eberlestock, Horn Hunter, etc....).


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## archery4life (May 14, 2003)

Thanks for the responses and taking the time to read all of this! I wanted to give all the info and events that took place. I'm not trying to bash them, just wanted some opinions other than mine. It's nice to see that I am not out of line or alone with my concerns and situation. I thought it was pretty bold of them to send this caliber of repair back especially with thier "unconditional warranty". They sure are proud of it. This is directly from their website.......

"If you are reading this page, chances are something has not gone well concerning your Balands Pack. 

First of all, let us offer you and your family our condolences and also reassure you that your beloved pack is in the best of hands. Whether or not you realized it at the time, when you purchased your gear From Badlands, you not only bought the finest equipment available, you bought a lifetime of worry free ownership thanks to our now world famous unconditional lifetime warranty."

The pack was purchased new and never abused, but I definitely used it as it was designed to be used. Their "warranty" covers anything new, used, old, 1st, 2nd, 3rd owner and so on. 

Attached is the letter that was included when I got my pack back.


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## Liv4Rut (Mar 24, 2006)

I sent in my 2200 last fall to repair a couple broken straps and a few parts where the padded backing was coming off. They sent it back and it looked great. I don't have any complaints yet. I don't think I would be too upset if it worked and held up.


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## westen (Apr 26, 2011)

I was going to purchase their waist pack next week. Thanks, will be looking elsewhere.


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## Lance3.1R (Apr 6, 2005)

Wow me and my son were just lookin at the new 2200 day packs last night. I had wondered if they were worth the money, but with c/s like that it really dont matter what the price is Really!


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## screen_abq (Aug 20, 2003)

has anyone had an issue with the eblerstock X2????


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## tmoran (Dec 9, 2003)

I just quit looking at badlands, thanks for posting.


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## strikefirst (Mar 30, 2009)

Wow...I was looking at badlands also. That repair is fugly and looks like it will break under stress.

Thanks for the info.

ALSO did that letter state if they replace it they replace it with a sample? Something used? BS!


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## IMADMAN (Jan 24, 2005)

Unacceptable, the repairs look really halfazz. The company should reconsider changing it's "unconditional warranty" to "limited, TBD by the manufacturer" people spend a lot on products w/ outstanding warranties, just because of the warranty. I agree with everyone else, w/o a decent CS dept. or QC dept. what's the point of buying a product with a vague warranty, and a hit or miss in quality control.


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## spike camp (Jun 2, 2008)

Give ol' Paul a call tomorrow,ask for a replacement and send him a link to this thread while your still on the phone with him.

Seeing that badlands lost about $1000 with one botched repair job, may just get the job done right for you as well as pave the way for better attention to similar situations that arrise in the future.


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## AGPank (Sep 5, 2008)

I understand your frustration, but from the picture I can't really tell where it was damaged. How long did you have this pack? Why did this complaint come about now when this happened last fall?

My view on lifetime warranties is that they are for the lifetime of the product, not my lifetime. If I buy a hunting pack and use it once a year, it should last a long time (more than 10 seasons). If I used it once a month then maybe less. I don't see how a pack could last forever, so really only you can be a judge of that. The Badlands website does say that the warranty is not intended to be an upgrade program. It seems now that you are frustrated that the zippers broke and that you can't get a $100 resale on a very well used $200 new pack. 

How did the repair hold up during your last elk hunt? If the zippers broke, call them up and talk to them again to see if they will fix it for the next hunt. If you just want a new pack, drop the price and sell it to someone else who will have to send it in and test out their warranty.


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## mrbillbrown (Sep 30, 2009)

Thanks for the post. I was really close to purchasing a Monster fanny pack. I'll buy something else w/CS like that... Sorry about your experience, but appreciate you sharing with the community


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## the critter (Feb 15, 2008)

Wow, I can't blame you for being upset, that transaction sucked.

Wonder how many thousand in business this thread just cost them, it amazes me how some companys throw CS to the wind.


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## archery4life (May 14, 2003)

AGPank said:


> I understand your frustration, but from the picture I can't really tell where it was damaged. How long did you have this pack? Why did this complaint come about now when this happened last fall?
> 
> My view on lifetime warranties is that they are for the lifetime of the product, not my lifetime. If I buy a hunting pack and use it once a year, it should last a long time (more than 10 seasons). If I used it once a month then maybe less. I don't see how a pack could last forever, so really only you can be a judge of that. The Badlands website does say that the warranty is not intended to be an upgrade program. It seems now that you are frustrated that the zippers broke and that you can't get a $100 resale on a very well used $200 new pack.
> 
> How did the repair hold up during your last elk hunt? If the zippers broke, call them up and talk to them again to see if they will fix it for the next hunt. If you just want a new pack, drop the price and sell it to someone else who will have to send it in and test out their warranty.


I used my pack for my Elk hunt the week I got it back. A few days after my Elk hunt we went to Wyoming Antelope hunting. I used my pack to help out on an Elk hunt and Deer hunt that year. Used it again on my Deer hunt in November. Used it January Archery deer this year. As well as a Javelina hunt in February. Used it the last two months for scouting for my August Archery deer coming up. I've been using it and haven't really had a big break to be without it. The reason It's just coming up now is because I wanted to just sell it, move on and get an Eberle of its equal but having a hard time getting any money for it to use towards another pack as I have to disclose the repair. This is why I'm just complianing now. Had I been able to sell it and move on I never would have posted this.

Kind of hard to see just where it broke, but sheared off right at the pack and the strapping where it was sewn. Basically perforated the webbing causing it to break.

It has held up so far, well not the zippers.... LOL! So I guess it's just an eyesore and a reminder at this point. I want to say the pack is about 5 years old or so? It looks like I'll have to contact them now to give them a chance to redeem themselves. Not trying to loose business for them, that was not my intent. :mg: I apologize to Badlands and let everyone know what their response is to my situation.


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## AppleOnMyHead (Nov 22, 2009)

AGPank said:


> I understand your frustration, but from the picture I can't really tell where it was damaged. How long did you have this pack? Why did this complaint come about now when this happened last fall?
> 
> My view on lifetime warranties is that they are for the lifetime of the product, not my lifetime. If I buy a hunting pack and use it once a year, it should last a long time (more than 10 seasons). If I used it once a month then maybe less. I don't see how a pack could last forever, so really only you can be a judge of that. The Badlands website does say that the warranty is not intended to be an upgrade program. It seems now that you are frustrated that the zippers broke and that you can't get a $100 resale on a very well used $200 new pack.
> 
> How did the repair hold up during your last elk hunt? If the zippers broke, call them up and talk to them again to see if they will fix it for the next hunt. * If you just want a new pack, drop the price and sell it to someone else who will have to send it in and test out their warranty*.


Yes that is what AT is all about. learning how to screw the next guy in line...lol

They advertise a life time warranty....that is all that has to be said.


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## rodney482 (Aug 31, 2004)

Unacceptable,,,, thumbs down badlands


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## Alaska at heart (Aug 25, 2009)

My Alaskan hunting buddy has a Eberlestock Blue Widow pack he picked up used that is a great product and one that I have seriously considered since observing the quality. This type of thread is very informative because Badlands is in the same market and apparently doesn't honor their warranty to the full expectations of the informed consumer. Packs that cost over $200 should be made to take many years of hard use (not abuse) and continue to perform. If a warranty issue comes up, they need to repair it to the same conditions as a new one was constructed or replace it if they are unable to make it right. They are supposedly made to haul in heavy gear and haul out heavy loads of game meat without breaking at stress points. If zippers are under a replacement warranty, they need to be replaces with new units in a manner that is consistent with the original product, not a cobble job because the sewing machine can't get to that same point. If so, tear it apart and make it right or send a replacement if that isn't practical.


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## mugzzzee (Dec 20, 2010)

In late winter I sent my Badlands Monster Fanny Pack in for repair. I had a tear in the harness behing my neck and was missing a buckle. They stitched the tear alright but it looked like a 12 yo was playing with the sewing machune. Also they left a small flap sticking out. I'm done with Badlands. I just received my new Eberlestock Blue Widow. I have problems trying to upload a photo. Seeing is believing.


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## bl00dtrail (Aug 17, 2008)

I had some zippers snap off on a whitetail hybrid pack one one of its very first uses.... they're junk IMO

I bought a hornhunter pack and won't look back. great pack, same warranty and MADE IN USA


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## Masheen76 (Nov 28, 2006)

Hmm, this is troubling news for me. I have had my Badlands 2200 for 5 years now and I honestly love the thing. I've packed nearly every critter from deer to Elk to bear in this thing and almost any kind of gear I own. I've loaded more weight almost than I could carry into this pack and it's taken everything I could throw at it easily. My clips and zippers still look and operate as new as well. But..........

That warranty was THE selling point for me when I purchased it. I liked the Eberlestock packs as well, and it was between this and the X2. To me,...a warranty is there to repair your broken/faulty item to original condition or replace it altogether. Anything less in my opinion is a breach of that "contract" and bordering on false advertisement.

I think you should get back in contact with Badlands and inform them of how you feel you've been treated, and maybe of the thoughts given in this tread as well and give them a chance to make right.

Post back with how you are treated because I am extremely interested.


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## grizzlyplumber (Jul 21, 2005)

I like the idea posted above to send a link to this thread to the Paul guy and let him know how much money he just cost himself. I had a 2200 a few years ago but didnt like the lack of seperate compartments. Everything had to fit in one big pocket, making it tough to find what you need. Plus it killed my PBJ sandwiches and made them look like they had already been eaten and passed. I ended up selling mine and bought a Just One from Eberlestock, couldnt be happier.


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## Karbon (Jul 5, 2006)

WOW. I've loved my Badlands packs in the past, but I will never buy one again.


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## Labs (Jun 3, 2004)

This thread makes me nervous as I thought Badlands would stand behind their product. Honestly, I believed the hype of their warranty and it was one of the reasons I had no problem spending the extra money thinking I was in good hands if something were to go wrong with my packs...


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## target guy (Mar 17, 2009)

I have three Badlands packs and I have never had any issues with them. I have talked with CS there a few times with questions etc. and I have always been happy with them. Not sure what happened with your deal but I would say this is not what I have found to be the norm for them. For those saying “ I will not buy one now” maybe you need to look further rather than one or two guys that have had bad service. How many others have had great service from them? You NEVER hear the good stories, only the bad.


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## archery4life (May 14, 2003)

I shot Paul an email last night and just left him a voicemail as this thread kind of went bad quick. I agree with the above poster and let's wait and see how this turns out before we jump to conclusions. I didn't mean for them to lose any sales but this was my experience, you all can see the work that was done and the letter enclosed.

I have bad luck and it's probably just a rare incident on my account this time so I'll give the chance to do what they feel is right.
I dont think not buying Badlands is the right thing to do on my experience. I am sure there are 1,000's of satisfied customers that have never had one issue. if anything this thread may just make them that much better and may be a positive thing in the long run.


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## Karbon (Jul 5, 2006)

Anyone have a GOOD repair job then?


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## FBOUTZ (May 29, 2005)

I gave up on Badlands "warranty" after sending in a Superday pack twice to have the zipper fixed on the main compartment. It would bind up consistently about halfway and then was very hard to get zipped all the way shut. The pack came back exactly the same as I sent it in both times with nothing done to it that I could see and no letter as to what they did to fix the problem. I spoke to a lady on the phone about it before sending it in the second time and she said they would make it right. Sent in a letter both times describing the problem but that didn't help I guess. Will never buy their stuff again.


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## crow_sniper (Aug 14, 2004)

I have a badlands whitetail hybrid pack with the magnetic closures and it flopped open and my $600 zeiss rangefinder fell out never to be found again. That was a HARD lesson learned so now i use a d-ring to secure the flaps+ zippers.I let them know about my rangefinder loss but they never replied so i guess they could care less.I have bought my last pack from them.


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## erictski (May 20, 2009)

to the op...it sounds like the fixed strap has held up...although I would also have been a bit upset after seeing how it was fixed...

did the zippers fail as you thought they would or are the zippers still working?


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## archery4life (May 14, 2003)

The zippers both broke soon after I got my pack back from them, just as I'd thought they would. 
The strap functions and hasn't fallen apart as of now.


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## Bowhuntr64 (Aug 6, 2007)

What a terrible experience. I hope Badlands owns up to this and makes the changes they need to make. On a positive note, I have had a 2200 for several years and absolutely love it. I also have a Sacrifice and love it as well.


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## WYelkhunter (Mar 26, 2006)

target guy said:


> I have three Badlands packs and I have never had any issues with them. I have talked with CS there a few times with questions etc. and I have always been happy with them. Not sure what happened with your deal but I would say this is not what I have found to be the norm for them. For those saying “ I will not buy one now” maybe you need to look further rather than one or two guys that have had bad service. How many others have had great service from them? You NEVER hear the good stories, only the bad.


There might be a lot of good CS stories for Badlands,,,,,, but who wants to be the few that don't have good dealings with them????? Not worth taking a chance on when there are so many other quality pack makers with the same warranty and better CS.


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## robbcayman (Jul 28, 2007)

Sadly, we live in a world where very few companies really stand behind their product. Heck, they shouldn't even have to offer a warranty, if their product breaks, malfunctions etc.. they should stand behind it outside of it being a blatant disregard or improper use of their merchandise. 

To me, reading that cheesy letter is just an excuse so they won't have to replace the pack. It's an excuse to do a crappy job and then hope you understand and move along. No company is perfect, but the letter coupled with that crappy job shows a lack of effort or concern for their customer. If I were you, I would fight with them to give you a new pack, or to properly fix your old pack. I can tell you I will never do business with Badlands.


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## mez (Feb 22, 2010)

archery4life said:


> The reason It's just coming up now is because I wanted to just sell it, move on and get an Eberle of its equal but having a hard time getting any money for it to use towards another pack as I have to disclose the repair. This is why I'm just complianing now. Had I been able to sell it and move on I never would have posted this.


Seems you are upset because you wanted the repair to appear as normal so you could sell the pack to someone and not tell them that it had broken and been fixed. You should disclose the repair no matter how it looks. Why would you even want to sell it if you don't think it is usable any longer?


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## archery4life (May 14, 2003)

mez said:


> Seems you are upset because you wanted the repair to appear as normal so you could sell the pack to someone and not tell them that it had broken and been fixed. You should disclose the repair no matter how it looks. Why would you even want to sell it if you don't think it is usable any longer?


Had this Pack been repaired as it was before it broke then this thread would not exist and I would be keeping the pack. Because of my experience is why I am wanting to move on, not because the pack broke but how it was fixed and my personal experience.


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## mez (Feb 22, 2010)

Ok. Your earlier quoted made it sound as if you were or would have sold the pack without disclosing the repair had they done it right.


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## archery4life (May 14, 2003)

My mistake. Honestly I really liked my 2200 and didn't have many complaints. I loved the batwing design and bought it to throw my double bull blind on real quick. Realized the extra uses and quickly became my primary pack. I can strap my treestand on and climbing sticks with ease. Not to mention animal quarters or a whole javelina.


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## Ib4Hoyt (Jan 19, 2004)

i have the 2200 and love it for packing my treestand and junk.. i was going to buy a superday before fall because it has more pockets i think would serve me better,,but im going to look at others now also,,i liked the warranty pitch they put out,,made it sound like it didnt matter what happened it would be fixed or replaced,,to me thats not fixed,,thats patched up! i still may end up with the superday but after this im looking at others for sure. i hope the owner gets on here and makes it right,,i think you should get to keep that pack and them send you a new one after all this.. i wouldnt hold my breath though.


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## Redman2002 (Feb 10, 2005)

I had a Badlands Hypervent. The thing squeaked very loudly while walking. I called Badlands and it seemed to be a known problem. 

I sent the pack in and received a call a few days later and said there wasn't much that could be done. They could spray graphite where the frame rubbed (or) send me a new Hypervent or I could choose a new pack. I choose a new Superday pack (did not charge me a penny more) and in a few days had the new pack. 

I was very satisfied with the service I received..... however the Superday pack IMO is not a good quality pack, the zippers suck and the pack has broken down. I used it for two full seasons. After reading your post and the note they left.....I find it disturbing. Unconditional means unconditional. I had been debating on sending in the Superday (cause now it looks like a big pile of play-dough)...but wonder if a should even bother. 

I ALMOST spent my money on a new Badlands.....but moved on to a Eblerstock and could not be happier.


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## -bowfreak- (Oct 18, 2006)

robbcayman said:


> Sadly, we live in a world where very few companies really stand behind their product. Heck, they shouldn't even have to offer a warranty, if their product breaks, malfunctions etc.. they should stand behind it outside of it being a blatant disregard or improper use of their merchandise.
> 
> To me, reading that cheesy letter is just an excuse so they won't have to replace the pack. It's an excuse to do a crappy job and then hope you understand and move along. No company is perfect, but the letter coupled with that crappy job shows a lack of effort or concern for their customer. If I were you, I would fight with them to give you a new pack, or to properly fix your old pack. I can tell you I will never do business with Badlands.


Try using the warranty from SKB or Magnus. They stand behind their products to the max. They have a "no questions asked, if it breaks we fix it" type warranty and that is exactly what it is. I am sure there are many more that stand behind their like these guys but if you ever have issues with a Magnus or an SKB product it will be taken care of swiftly.


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## huntnfishnut (Jan 12, 2011)

I agree that the repair job looks like crap, but they have "repaired" and still guarantee that it will hold. I would continue to beat on it like you have and see if it really holds. If it lets free, then I would push for a new pack. I don't see where they warrant cosmetic vs a functional repair.

As a side note for if you send it in for work on the zippers, presentation means everything. There are people at the other end of the line who are just as human as you are. While you should expect and receive high quality, you are not going to help yourself calling every day to make sure it was received and they are doing their job.


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## lrbergin (Jan 19, 2009)

I called them because I had MULTIPLE packs that had broken zippers tabs and just wanted some replacements so I could fix it myself. I had to call 3 times because they kept telling me they were in the mail and I never received them. They were switching over to the internet ordering of replacement parts at the time so maybe that was why, either way it put a sour taste in my mouth. I sold all my Badlands Packs and bought a Kifaru. It like comparing a Ferrari to a Fiat honestly. I’m glad I made the switch.


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## Masheen76 (Nov 28, 2006)

huntnfishnut said:


> I agree that the repair job looks like crap, but they have "repaired" and still guarantee that it will hold. I would continue to beat on it like you have and see if it really holds. If it lets free, then I would push for a new pack. I don't see where they warrant cosmetic vs a functional repair.
> *In my humble opinion, I would have to disagree. That strap is even more functional as it is cosmetic, and that is a hack-job,..period. This is a professional, semi custom pack manufacturer and that is the best they can offer in a repair? I don't buy it any way they would try and explain that to me. And an "unconditional warranty" is no grey area for me. If Dodge or Ford offered an "unconditional lifetime warranty" and the bumper fell off, do you think people would be satisfied if it was reattatched with lag bolts through the outside?? I think not.*
> 
> As a side note for if you send it in for work on the zippers, presentation means everything. There are people at the other end of the line who are just as human as you are. While you should expect and receive high quality, you are not going to help yourself calling every day to make sure it was received and they are doing their job.


*When a company is offering customer service at the highest level, which is what Badlands would have consumers believe pre-sale, then that is the nature of the game. If people buy a green Jansport backpack to haul hunting gear in and it busts, I doubt the Jansport company hears anything about it.*


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## gridman (Aug 26, 2007)

yeah, I would badlands to jam it


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## huntnfishnut (Jan 12, 2011)

Masheen76 said:


> *When a company is offering customer service at the highest level, which is what Badlands would have consumers believe pre-sale, then that is the nature of the game. If people buy a green Jansport backpack to haul hunting gear in and it busts, I doubt the Jansport company hears anything about it.*


Again, I am not disputing the repair looks like crap and personally I would probably not be pleased with the result as well. I quick browsed and did not see where the OP contacted badlands again after receiving this repair job to have them make it right to cash in on the "unconditional" part. Looking at the strap again, they would have to entirely disassemble the backing in order for it to "look nice". Not really worth their time to mess with. If nothing else they should have sent this back as it is with a good % off a replacement if it was not pretty enough.

That said, it is sad they would allow this to be something they would consider worthy of their product name as it does appear to be a hack job that I would be capable of doing on a Thursday night.


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## Masheen76 (Nov 28, 2006)

huntnfishnut said:


> Again, I am not disputing the repair looks like crap and personally I would probably not be pleased with the result as well. I quick browsed and did not see where the OP contacted badlands again after receiving this repair job to have them make it right to cash in on the "unconditional" part. Looking at the strap again, they would have to entirely disassemble the backing in order for it to "look nice". Not really worth their time to mess with. If nothing else they should have sent this back as it is with a good % off a replacement if it was not pretty enough.
> 
> That said, it is sad they would allow this to be something they would consider worthy of their product name as it does appear to be a hack job that I would be capable of doing on a Thursday night.


I wasn't attacking you or your post, I apologize if I came off that way. I just didn't agree with the thought that any repair made that was less than to original design( not condition) should be unacceptable. I think we are of the same position that this fix would not be satisfactory.


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## Palegabe (Jul 25, 2009)

I would be upset but you have enough people confirming your right to get a proper repair. Badlands packs too me were always a great pack that I couldn't affort. I have wanted the 2200 for some time and was going to ask my wife to get it for me for Christmas or our anniversery. This thread saved me. The only way I would be able to justify the cost would be to tell my wife this is the last pack I will ever need. To me this is what is implied by lifetime unconditional warranty. Get rid of the word lifetime or unconditional and Badlands is covered. But if you are going to claim those prices and justify it with the warranty, it is time to pay the piper. I will be looking around now for other highend packs.


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## Brad66 (Jun 7, 2008)

My opinion is they should stand behind their products better, the repair was crap and that letter is garbage. Thats their problem, they need to remedy it, unconditional means just that, and I would be mad. However I got the impression that you sent it to them and expected this to be done over night (just my perception, no harm intended) and were mad that it took a little longer than it was supposed to. I don't know if it gives a turnaround time in the warranty but to me if you get it back within a few weeks that would be fair to me. I realize when you have a hunt coming up you need it, and that would have been a great opportunity for them to ship you a loaner to use while yours was being fixed properly. Its unfortunate what happened and they have some "making right" to do, but I would say they should be given ample time to fix it too. If thats all the better they can fix it, they owe you a new pack in my opinion.


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## archery4life (May 14, 2003)

Brad66 said:


> My opinion is they should stand behind their products better, the repair was crap and that letter is garbage. Thats their problem, they need to remedy it, unconditional means just that, and I would be mad. However I got the impression that you sent it to them and expected this to be done over night (just my perception, no harm intended) and were mad that it took a little longer than it was supposed to. I don't know if it gives a turnaround time in the warranty but to me if you get it back within a few weeks that would be fair to me. I realize when you have a hunt coming up you need it, and that would have been a great opportunity for them to ship you a loaner to use while yours was being fixed properly. Its unfortunate what happened and they have some "making right" to do, but I would say they should be given ample time to fix it too. If thats all the better they can fix it, they owe you a new pack in my opinion.


I was very stressed at the time it broke. When I spoke to Badlands and told them my issue I had a couple weeks to get it turned around before my Elk Hunt that I'd waited 5 years to get drawn for. Honestly I didn't care who's 2200 I had in my hands, as long as I had one before my hunt. I stressed my concerns continuously when I first called. I strongly suggested a loaner, or charge my card for a new one and get that out right away if they couldn't fix mine properly. I said I'd send pics and he could determine the issue from them to get the ball rolling and save me a few days if possible but that wasn't an option for him. I offered all options I could think of to get ANY 2200 to me in time. He kept assuring me it would be turned around very quickly and said it would be back to me in plenty of time. I didn't want to take the chance and pleaded for another option just in case, but he insisted I'd have it back so I didn't have much choice. 

I was trying to borrow a buddies 2200 but it is his wives and he didn't want blood on it 

Bottom line, I received my pack back in time (barely, but I did). The repair has held up so far, but not the zippers. It's the quality of the repair, how everything went down, and my outcome I am displeased with. I think we all agree the repair is less than satisfactory and that's all we really need to focus on at this point, not whether I was mad or why, or if I wanted to sell it, or why I took so long to post this, and if there are any holes in my story as a couple people have tried to pick out. The repair, broken zippers, and letter speak for themselves, regardless of anything else I've posted here. Besides there sure seem to be a decent number of people with similar sub-par repair experiences unfortunately.

I emailed Paul this link last night. I called Badlands just after 8:00 am this morning and spoke to the lady that answered the phone. She said that Paul was on the other line and I let her know I needed to speak to him and he should really check his email as there is a very time sensitive and important issue. She patched me through to his voicemail and I left him a message as well stating this. Maybe he's been busy or hasn't been able to check the email or voicemail yet. I'll just hang tight and wait to hear from him and let everyone know if they care to make good or stand behind their warranty repair.


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## Brad66 (Jun 7, 2008)

I agree 100% with you, Id be very upset, that is not a professional repair and certainly not acceptable. It may hold, but it looks like crap and for the cost you deserve it fixed to exactly how it was before it broke. That would be like a auto body shop giving you a car back with different colored fenders, sure it will hold up but it isn't fixed properly. My only point was that I got the impression that it had to be done right away, but you have explained the other options you were agreeing to go with so thats clarified. Personally if I were them I would be too embarrassed to even ship it out with that kind of repair, their name is on the line and it cant be easy to sell $200+ packs with the economy the way it is, they need to keep their image squeaky clean and this isn't the way to do that. 



archery4life said:


> I was very stressed at the time it broke. When I spoke to Badlands and told them my issue I had a couple weeks to get it turned around before my Elk Hunt that I'd waited 5 years to get drawn for. Honestly I didn't care who's 2200 I had in my hands, as long as I had one before my hunt. I stressed my concerns continuously when I first called. I strongly suggested a loaner, or charge my card for a new one and get that out right away if they couldn't fix mine properly. I said I'd send pics and he could determine the issue from them to get the ball rolling and save me a few days if possible but that wasn't an option for him. I offered all options I could think of to get ANY 2200 to me in time. He kept assuring me it would be turned around very quickly and said it would be back to me in plenty of time. I didn't want to take the chance and pleaded for another option just in case, but he insisted I'd have it back so I didn't have much choice.
> 
> I was trying to borrow a buddies 2200 but it is his wives and he didn't want blood on it
> 
> Bottom line, I received my pack back in time (barely, but I did). The repair has held up so far, but not the zippers. It's the quality of the repair, how everything went down, and my outcome I am displeased with. I think we all agree the repair is less than satisfactory and that's all we really need to focus on at this point, not whether I was mad or why, or if I wanted to sell it, or why I took so long to post this, and if there are any holes in my story as a couple people have tried to pick out. The repair, broken zippers, and letter speak for themselves, regardless of anything else I've posted here. Besides there sure seem to be a decent number of people with similar sub-par repair experiences unfortunately.


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## gabe_yalch (Mar 25, 2011)

ultraclassic01 said:


> I agree with you 100%. I had a similar situation and I actually sent the company the forum site that it was posted on both archery talk and bow hunting. That really provided some quick results from the company. Now companies have a chance to hear what people really have to say about them. Good and bad!!!!!! especially and bad customer service. I love hearing stories like yours because this is what the real world is like. If they would lose one sale because of your comments and the way they treated you, I would be happy!




well be happy because i was seriously considering purchasing the $400 pack of theirs now reconsidering and gonna shop around alot more thanks for the info guys


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## Chubby Tuna (Jan 22, 2007)

I'll first say that I love my Superday and 2200. Best fitting packs for me. Also own the Horn Hunter Mainbeam XL. I've sent my superday in twice for broken zippers. They put the zipper on backwards the last time they repaired it. Hmmm. A good warranty is one you don't expect to use.


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## sandblast (Feb 8, 2010)

Maybe I am crazy but this thread has sold me on a 2200. 5 years of heavy hunting use, it broke and they fixed it (albeit sloppily) and got it back to you in time for your hunt like you asked them too. The repair has held even though it is ugly. M
I feel like you have probably gotten your moneys worth. Just my opinion.


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## dwagaman (Nov 7, 2010)

archery4life said:


> I was very stressed at the time it broke. When I spoke to Badlands and told them my issue I had a couple weeks to get it turned around before my Elk Hunt that I'd waited 5 years to get drawn for. Honestly I didn't care who's 2200 I had in my hands, as long as I had one before my hunt. I stressed my concerns continuously when I first called. I strongly suggested a loaner, or charge my card for a new one and get that out right away if they couldn't fix mine properly. I said I'd send pics and he could determine the issue from them to get the ball rolling and save me a few days if possible but that wasn't an option for him. I offered all options I could think of to get ANY 2200 to me in time. He kept assuring me it would be turned around very quickly and said it would be back to me in plenty of time. I didn't want to take the chance and pleaded for another option just in case, but he insisted I'd have it back so I didn't have much choice.
> 
> I was trying to borrow a buddies 2200 but it is his wives and he didn't want blood on it
> 
> ...


Honestly if I had a hunt I had waited five years to draw for I would have purchased a new pack and dealt with the repair when I got back. I'm not sure how to take this thread........#1 I agree they should repair the pack as best they can.....#2 I don't agree you should get a new pack. That just makes no sense to me from a business stand point. How can a company stay in business if you buy a pack from them and they replace it for free every five years?.......#3 Should we as consumers expect a $200 pack to last forever? That seems unrealistic to me. If I got 5 years of hunting out of a pack, I'd feel like I got my monies worth.....Heck after 5 years I'd want to buy a new pack anyways!!!! To each his own on this deal, I have a Badlands 2800 Pack and have no complaints yet and would not hesitate to purchase another. Good luck sorting things out....


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## -bowfreak- (Oct 18, 2006)

dwagaman said:


> Honestly if I had a hunt I had waited five years to draw for I would have purchased a new pack and dealt with the repair when I got back. I'm not sure how to take this thread........#1 I agree they should repair the pack as best they can.....#2 I don't agree you should get a new pack. That just makes no sense to me from a business stand point. How can a company stay in business if you buy a pack from them and they replace it for free every five years?.......#3 *Should we as consumers expect a $200 pack to last forever?* That seems unrealistic to me. If I got 5 years of hunting out of a pack, I'd feel like I got my monies worth.....Heck after 5 years I'd want to buy a new pack anyways!!!! To each his own on this deal, I have a Badlands 2800 Pack and have no complaints yet and would not hesitate to purchase another. Good luck sorting things out....


If a company has an unconditional lifetime warranty, YES. I can guarantee you if you buy 3 Magnus broadheads and don't lose them, you will never have to buy another. I am not saying this is practical for business but that is the way other companies that I have dealt with honor unconditional lifetime warranties. If a company is not going to warrant their product for life unconditionally don't fool the public into thinking you will. It would be much more honest to offer a warranty against manufacturers defects not including normal use/wear.


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## ks_kiwi (Dec 22, 2004)

Like many others, I bought a badlands pack largely on the security provided by the warranty. After my elk hunt, I could no longer justify the investment, so sold it and went back to my little day hunt pack.
This thread has helped me understand the difference between what is perceived when you read the warranty and what is reality. Thank you.


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## 7x7 bull (Jan 28, 2011)

I also am in the market for a new pack and the 2200 was the frontrunner. I have changed my mind and will now be looking elswhere. It should be fixed to look like it was when they sold it or replaced plain and simple.


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## NorthernMN (Aug 19, 2005)

What are you buying, a good warranty or a good product? In this case it seems like many posters have bought Badlands based on the warranty. That warranty is only as good as the company standing behind it. It seems like the Badlands unconditional lifetime warranty is not necessarily everything it is sold as. I feel pretty good about just dropping money on an Eberlestock X2.


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## Redcell (Jun 23, 2008)

I will start off saying that I have a Diablo. It’s a great pack actually the best pack I have ever owned.
I bought my pack to on the ideal of "unconditional Warranty" like many others here. The way Badlands handled this situation dose not instill faith when I have to get work done on my pack. But on the other hand Badlands said they cannot get it under a machine is understandable. So why not hand stitch it? I worked for an awning company and if they could not get it under a machine it the person would hand stitch it back it the correct spot and back to the original spot so it looked like it did the day it rolled off the assembly line. But that patch job they threw on that pack look like crap. And if I owned a company with such big name in hunting as badlands I would not want to see my product with such a horrible patch job out in the field where other hunters would see it? I am not saying send him a new pack but having a job in the industry where sowing was 90% of what we do they would make sure it look the very best it could before it rolled out.


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## Chillen (Jun 20, 2004)

Any news yet OP?


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## txdukklr (Jan 9, 2003)

cost em another couple hundred bucks.

I actually have three of their packs and the zippers stink i replace the rubber thing you grab with some cord and that works better for me. I'm gonna buy a new pack I'm gonna give eberlestock a whirl. I've paid alot for the three bags I have if they're not going to stand behind them unconditionally then I'll try another brand. I've been pretty impressed with the eberlestocks I've seen.


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## Bob_Looney (Nov 17, 2003)

When packs are made in Vietnam, or any other off shore country, the "company" generally doesn't have much in the way of equipment to make repairs. These companies are nothing more than shipping centers.

Buy from a company that actually makes their product and the outcome would be different.


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## archery4life (May 14, 2003)

Chillen said:


> Any news yet OP?


Nah, haven't heard from him yet....


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## Chillen (Jun 20, 2004)

All of this makes me sick to my stomach to hear. I have a diablo with the tags on it I was planning on using for my mule deer hunt in SD this fall. Now I am questioning whether or not I should send it back and get another brand. What to do, what to do??


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## hunt1up (Sep 4, 2009)

I purchased an UltraDay last summer and used it out west for a week and every time I went into the woods for whitetails. I've had it loaded down a few times with stands, bow, and gear. So far it has worked fine. When I bought it though, their warranty was one of the reasons I chose a Badlands. As a result of my buying one, my dad, and a friend both bought Diablos. Seeing the results of their CS in this post really bothers me. 

Sure, as some have said, the OP might have gotten his use out of the pack. That is irrelevant. Don't advertise and unconditional warranty if that isn't what it is.

So far I've had no issues with my UltraDay and it will probably suit me fine for treestand hunting, but I just purchased my latest hunting pack, an Eberlestock J107.


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## hunt1up (Sep 4, 2009)

From Badlands website:

Q: My pack needs warranty work, will it be repaired or will I get a brand new one? 

A: Our warranty was designed to keep your pack in the field for as many years as possible and also to demonstrate our willingness to stand behind our products for the long haul. It was not designed to be a "free upgrade program". Therefore, this is our one caveat (as stated in the warranty). "We will repair your pack for free, forever, no matter whose fault it is, no questions asked", sounds like a square deal to us. 

*A few things you need to know here; in most cases it probably cost less to replace a pack than it does to disassemble and repair it. The other thing is; it is now and always has been our intention to do right by our customers, period. This a company founded on treating people as we would like to be treated ourselves. Therefore, if it is a case where the product should be replaced, it will be done promptly and without whining. If it makes more senses under the circumstances to repair it, that will be done. Either way, we do it on our dime. *


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## Masheen76 (Nov 28, 2006)

*Sure, as some have said, the OP might have gotten his use out of the pack. That is irrelevant. Don't advertise and unconditional warranty if that isn't what it is *


Exactly....


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## WYelkhunter (Mar 26, 2006)

hunt1up said:


> From Badlands website:
> 
> Q: My pack needs warranty work, will it be repaired or will I get a brand new one?
> 
> ...


That right there looks like they should replace the pack.......


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## B&C_less (Jun 10, 2008)

I bought the monster fanny a few years back, and the main buckle broke in the field the first season. I gave it away free here on AT. Gone, and good riddance.


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## Bowhuntr64 (Aug 6, 2007)

Chillen said:


> All of this makes me sick to my stomach to hear. I have a diablo with the tags on it I was planning on using for my mule deer hunt in SD this fall. Now I am questioning whether or not I should send it back and get another brand. What to do, what to do??


I feel very sorry for the guy in the OP. I hope Badlands will step up and do him right. At the same time, Badlands makes one of the finest packs available. There are thousands and thousands of folks who are super pleased with them. Don't send back your pack just because of this one instance. There are always lemons in every batch.


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## Redcell (Jun 23, 2008)

I was looking to buy a fanny this year. But thinking of going a diffrent route now.


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## tmoran (Dec 9, 2003)

Eberlestock


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## mx482 (Nov 4, 2003)

Thanks for posting. No badlands for me now.


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## LXhuntinPA (Jan 22, 2006)

I was considering a SuperDay had the Whitetail Hybrid and really liked it but I was sold on the lifetime warranty. I will be going somewhere else


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## dlhredfoxx (Feb 5, 2008)

OK, I'll be the one that goes against the grain. I own three BL packs today (2800, 4500 and a Diablo)... I use the heck out of all three of them, I've had the 4500 since 2007, had a few isuses with it because I'm VERY abusive to packs... NEVER had an issue with BL CUst Svc honoring their warranty and making things right... but that's just me. I'm a BL customer for life, I love my BL packs and don't have any reason to ever buy another brand.


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## dwagaman (Nov 7, 2010)

Chillen said:


> All of this makes me sick to my stomach to hear. I have a diablo with the tags on it I was planning on using for my mule deer hunt in SD this fall. Now I am questioning whether or not I should send it back and get another brand. What to do, what to do??


Its seems the OP had a warranty issue with a pack he had used without incident for many years. It almost seems this thread has transitioned from a lifetime warranty issue to people questioning the quality of Badlands Packs. Badlands has always had a great reputation for making quality packs. I guess I'd like to hear from Badlands and see what they have to say. There are two sides to this issue and I'd like to hear them both before making a decision.


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## 12bhunting (Sep 9, 2009)

archery4life said:


> I shot Paul an email last night and just left him a voicemail as this thread kind of went bad quick. I agree with the above poster and let's wait and see how this turns out before we jump to conclusions. I didn't mean for them to lose any sales but this was my experience, you all can see the work that was done and the letter enclosed.
> 
> I have bad luck and it's probably just a rare incident on my account this time so I'll give the chance to do what they feel is right.
> I dont think not buying Badlands is the right thing to do on my experience. I am sure there are 1,000's of satisfied customers that have never had one issue. if anything this thread may just make them that much better and may be a positive thing in the long run.


The old flip flop. Make up your mind man. Do they suck or what?


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## gsp11 (Nov 16, 2009)

Glad I saw this. Had a monster pack on backorder. Just cancelled it and ordered an eberlestock.


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## archery4life (May 14, 2003)

12bhunting said:


> The old flip flop. Make up your mind man. Do they suck or what?


Not flip flopping man, was just trying to give them the benefit of the doubt. I assumed mine was probably an isolated incident. After hearing everybody elses bad luck with their packs and the sub-par repairs I realize I am far from alone. Ill let you decide if they "suck or what" based on everyone's details and stories. I simply shared my incident, my thoughts and feelings on my personal own experience. Take it for what it's worth, and draw your own conclusions based on the pictures and details......

I stand firm behind my decision to make the move from Badlands to Eberlestock at this point, even more so as these type of repairs are more common than I thought, too bad for Badlands. I'll own an Eberlestock Blue Widow VERY SOON and either a destroyer or battleship and be done with Badlands, but that's just my personal decison


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## curley30030x (Jun 22, 2005)

the mere fact that Bad lands even attempted to fix a five year old pack is amazing and also to not charge is even more amazing. Really the actual life expectancy of soft goods like that is around three years max, I think to put a lifetime warranty on a pack is like putting a lifetime warranty on shoes or pants, its crazy. And trying to get over a $100 for a pack that you bought in 2005-2006 when you only paid $160 ( I know because I have one ) is crazy. I agree they could have did a better job at fixing that pack and there was a problem with shipping but I would like to see what would happen if you used an eberlestock for over 5 years and call them asking for a repair what would they say? Here is a sample of there warranty: *We apply a "reasonable man" philosophy when determining normal use. If something tears or breaks because of defects in materials or workmanship, we'll gladly take care of it, with no questions asked. But please do not ask us to replace items that are damaged by fire, dog mauling, willful vandalism, etc. At some point we ask people to stand up and be responsible for things that happen on their side of the fence.* Don’t sugar coat it and say you didn’t mean for this to happen to a company you read between the lines you want a new pack.


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## dwagaman (Nov 7, 2010)

gsp11 said:


> Glad I saw this. Had a monster pack on backorder. Just cancelled it and ordered an eberlestock.


How can a companies entire reputation be determined by a few customers having a negative experience? I'd like to see the numbers of packs sold and satisfied customers over the past 5 years VS unhappy customers. I bet its a small percentage. I've driven Ford pickups for the past 15 years and I bet there are plenty of folks on this forum that will say Ford sucks because of this or that. That has not been my experience. I read a thread where someone posted that Hoyt bows suck because they had an issue with the limbs. Again, that has not been my experience after 15 years of shooting Hoyts.

I have absolutely nothing to do with Badlands other than using their packs for a number of years. My hunting partner uses the 2200 and loves it for our pack in Elk hunts. This just feels like a knee jerk over reaction to someone elses experience. Not sure Badlands is getting a fair shake on this deal.....


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## Porterhouse83 (Jun 18, 2011)

Dwagaman take a look at that fix on the ops bag again then tell me who's getting a fair shake. It didn't happen to you so it's real easy to sit there and say what you did. Bet you would be singing a different tune if it were you and you had not heard anything back from the company on that poor excuse for a fix. Does not matter if your satisfied with badlands or not. Your not the one dealing with the problem right now the op is.


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## acridlon (Jul 18, 2006)

screen_abq said:


> has anyone had an issue with the eblerstock X2????


None yet! I have owned both the 2009 and 2010's and they are solid. I have packed elk quarters on the bone as well as a fully boned mule deer. I love mine and will recommend it to anyone looking for a mid sized workhorse!! I do love my monster fanny pack too! Alan


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## dwagaman (Nov 7, 2010)

Porterhouse83 said:


> Dwagaman take a look at that fix on the ops bag again then tell me who's getting a fair shake. It didn't happen to you so it's real easy to sit there and say what you did. Bet you would be singing a different tune if it were you and you had not heard anything back from the company on that poor excuse for a fix. Does not matter if your satisfied with badlands or not. Your not the one dealing with the problem right now the op is.


My statement is not about the OP's situation. Its about everyone elses response and condemning Badlands based on his experience. I have already posted that BL should properly fix the OP's pack. But in all fairness we have only heard one side of the story. No company has a 100% perfect track record, I don't care who you talk about. Not sure how you made this about me, I have an opinion as does the OP. I'm not even saying I disagree with the OP (which I don't). I think alot of people on this thread are over reacting because BL's did not become as popular as they have by selling junk.


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## elksnout (Feb 2, 2006)

Karbon said:


> Anyone have a GOOD repair job then?[/QUOTE
> 
> I've had the 2200 and now the 2800. Had some zipper tabs break, called and had 6 new ones 2 days later. Had top pouch zipper break because it was "funky" to begin with. Called, simple explanation, sent it in and 6 days later came back completly fixed...even the "funky" was straightened out. Excellent CS and repair work, no complaints at all!


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## erictski (May 20, 2009)

I too have had a good experience...busted a couple buckles...sent it in ...new buckles were sewn on


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## curley30030x (Jun 22, 2005)

Any time I have ever had any issue, they have gone above and beyond my expectations to make things right. There is a reason I own almost every pack of theirs and even some doubles. It's funny to think all the "Maufacture dent kiss my arse, I didn't get a FREE Upgrade, and they didn't overnight my gear back to me", but how many actually come on here and give props!?!! If that was the case, Badlands would have a 98% Positive feedback! One guy isn't treated the way HE EXPECTS, so now a Company that has had nothing but great feedback, great reviews, great EVERYTHING, is being burned at the cross!?!! Guess it proves there's more negativity in the world than positive. 
I would love for the OP to call Badlands tomorrow, ask for Isaac, and see what happens. Everyone's first reaction to unsatisfaction is to come start a trashing thread and act like a martyr, rather than be a grown up and actually get to the bottom of it. 
Granted the OP was upset, that's understandable, but to even say in your original post that you didn't want to call, because you were too upset!?!? Just goes to show that there's more to
The story!


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## archery4life (May 14, 2003)

curley30030x said:


> Any time I have ever had any issue, they have gone above and beyond my expectations to make things right. There is a reason I own almost every pack of theirs and even some doubles. It's funny to think all the "Maufacture dent kiss my arse, I didn't get a FREE Upgrade, and they didn't overnight my gear back to me", but how many actually come on here and give props!?!! If that was the case, Badlands would have a 98% Positive feedback! One guy isn't treated the way HE EXPECTS, so now a Company that has had nothing but great feedback, great reviews, great EVERYTHING, is being burned at the cross!?!! Guess it proves there's more negativity in the world than positive.
> I would love for the OP to call Badlands tomorrow, ask for Isaac, and see what happens. Everyone's first reaction to unsatisfaction is to come start a trashing thread and act like a martyr, rather than be a grown up and actually get to the bottom of it.
> Granted the OP was upset, that's understandable, but to even say in your original post that you didn't want to call, because you were too upset!?!? Just goes to show that there's more to
> The story!


WOW! yer on a roll today there Ol' Curley! It seems like you are the one spouting out quite a bit of negativity yourself LOL!!! It's all good, you are obviously a gentleman and I'll take all of what you have to say as a compliment so thank you for your constructive help LOL. :wink: Badlands employee or staff I'll take it??? 

First, I never asked for or expected a new pack. Had you actually read my intial post you would have already known that. I only wanted my pack REPAIRED properly (not replaced or "upgraded") as Bill specifically told me it would be. When I started this post I was hoping I could get it fixed or replaced as 95% of us on this thread see it not satisfactory so I could turn it and sell it for what I should get so I could get my Blue Widow from Steve here on A.T. S&S archery with great service and prices. Check him out as that is where I'm gettin my Widow soon! 
http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1346820&highlight=eberlestock 

I knew I was going to get blasted for having a bad experience, honestly I thought I would have gotten it a lot worse so I guess I should be thankful huh??? haha..... I know these threads go bad quick against the OP which is a darned shame. 

As far as the ones saying there is more to the story is honestly irrelevant. There is not more to it, but if there was look at the repair, the letter, and the broken zippers. The pictures speak for themselves don't they??? What else could there be???? And if there was WHO CARES??? Their warranty is unconditional and it covers ANYTHING that happens to it.... PERIOD!!!!!!! Forget the heresay and look at the facts! Look how many others jumped on and had similar stories and sub-par repairs. Don't forget to go after them individually for being unhappy as well.


I am done with Badlands! I want an Eberle on my back now and not a Badlands. Now that I have my Eberle X2 that will do anything the 2200 will and much more, I don't need my Badlands. May just not be able to stuff as much in one giant cluttered pouch. This 2200 is way more trouble than it's worth so it's up for sale as of right now!!! First $55.00 Paypal get's this pack shipped!!!!!!! Probably the best price a 2200's ever sold for. Don't worry guys this comes with the Badlands unconditional warranty. I'll try to post more pics of it tomorrow evening if it's still available. I'll look it over really well and disclose anything else I find to the purchaser, even though the warranty will cover anything. Here is the chance for the Badlands supporters to grab this pack for a killer price! Good luck to all.

*The first one to reply to this post saying they'll take it gets it![/*  NO PM's I want to keep this fair so all can see who actually takes it first without questions. Maybe OL' Curley wants to buy it and get to the bottom of this Scooby Doo caper and find out what really happened HAHA :darkbeer:
I probably won't be able to mail it until this weekend, Monday at the worst. 

Thanks for all the comments (good and bad), stories shared, and support.


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## havok (Feb 13, 2007)

> the mere fact that Bad lands even attempted to fix a five year old pack is amazing and also to not charge is even more amazing. Really the actual life expectancy of soft goods like that is around three years max, I think to put a lifetime warranty on a pack is like putting a lifetime warranty on shoes or pants, its crazy. And trying to get over a $100 for a pack that you bought in 2005-2006 when you only paid $160 ( I know because I have one ) is crazy. I agree they could have did a better job at fixing that pack and there was a problem with shipping but I would like to see what would happen if you used an eberlestock for over 5 years and call them asking for a repair what would they say?


Great post Curley, could not agree more!!


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## archery4life (May 14, 2003)

Up
Ttt


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## WEEGEE (Oct 13, 2007)

let's see, 5 yr old bag... fill it full tree stand etc.etc......straps break ?

i would have fixed it myself..
you can't carry an engine block, in a back pack!

reminds me of the midas commercial where the old man drives in his model T for a lifetime muffler repair!


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## AmishArcher (Feb 6, 2008)

curley30030x said:


> the mere fact that Bad lands even attempted to fix a five year old pack is amazing and also to not charge is even more amazing. Really the actual life expectancy of soft goods like that is around three years max, I think to put a lifetime warranty on a pack is like putting a lifetime warranty on shoes or pants, its crazy. And trying to get over a $100 for a pack that you bought in 2005-2006 when you only paid $160 ( I know because I have one ) is crazy. I agree they could have did a better job at fixing that pack and there was a problem with shipping but I would like to see what would happen if you used an eberlestock for over 5 years and call them asking for a repair what would they say? Here is a sample of there warranty: *We apply a "reasonable man" philosophy when determining normal use. If something tears or breaks because of defects in materials or workmanship, we'll gladly take care of it, with no questions asked. But please do not ask us to replace items that are damaged by fire, dog mauling, willful vandalism, etc. At some point we ask people to stand up and be responsible for things that happen on their side of the fence.* Don’t sugar coat it and say you didn’t mean for this to happen to a company you read between the lines you want a new pack.


you don't have to fix it if you don't promise you will. 

If you're going to offer an "unconditional" warranty, then it better not have conditions.

If you can't offer that unconditional warranty, then you'd best not be offering it. Kepi-sh???


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## Redball409 (Jan 21, 2010)

I'll buy that pack for $55 dollars. 
Let me know how to pay $$$.
I'll take it today and pay today.


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## archery4life (May 14, 2003)

Redball409 said:


> I'll buy that pack for $55 dollars.
> Let me know how to pay $$$.
> I'll take it today and pay today.


Good deal!'sold. 
I'll shoot you a pm with the information. 
Thank you.


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## hunt1up (Sep 4, 2009)

curley30030x said:


> the mere fact that Bad lands even attempted to fix a five year old pack is amazing and also to not charge is even more amazing. Really the actual life expectancy of soft goods like that is around three years max, I think to put a lifetime warranty on a pack is like putting a lifetime warranty on shoes or pants, its crazy. And trying to get over a $100 for a pack that you bought in 2005-2006 when you only paid $160 ( I know because I have one ) is crazy. I agree they could have did a better job at fixing that pack and there was a problem with shipping but I would like to see what would happen if you used an eberlestock for over 5 years and call them asking for a repair what would they say? Here is a sample of there warranty: *We apply a "reasonable man" philosophy when determining normal use. If something tears or breaks because of defects in materials or workmanship, we'll gladly take care of it, with no questions asked. But please do not ask us to replace items that are damaged by fire, dog mauling, willful vandalism, etc. At some point we ask people to stand up and be responsible for things that happen on their side of the fence.* Don’t sugar coat it and say you didn’t mean for this to happen to a company you read between the lines you want a new pack.


What part of *UNCONDITIONAL LIFETIME WARRANTY* is so hard to understand? 

If you don't want to repair a 5 year old pack, don't warranty it as such.


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## Slowyota (Aug 4, 2005)

I can say that I've owned a ton of badlands packs (being they're a local company to me) and the only problem I've ever had with one of their packs was when a mouse chewed through the bottom of my pack (that's what I get for leaving a granola bar in the bottom)

I took it in and had it back 2 hours later as good as new. They didn't say a word. 

If they had repaired my pack the way they repaired yours and included the note that they did I also would have been pissed. Why says it's unconditional and then put conditions on repairs, etc. I'd say to call Isaac like it's been mentioned before, but since you sold the pack already that won't help much. But the next time I see Isaac I'm going to have him check out this post and see what he says.

Good luck with the Eberlstock. They look like good packs.


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## WYelkhunter (Mar 26, 2006)

hunt1up said:


> What part of *UNCONDITIONAL LIFETIME WARRANTY* is so hard to understand?
> 
> If you don't want to repair a 5 year old pack, don't warranty it as such.


+1, don't call it UNCONDITIONAL LIFETIME WARRANTY if it isn't.


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## badlandspack (Jul 20, 2011)

Hi Guys,

My name is Bill Crawley, I started Badlands 18 years ago and have been watching and hearing about this thread for what seems to be an equally long time. The reason I have waited so long to say anything is, we usually do not interfere in what people have to say about us and our products, as we would like it to remain as unbiased as possible. However, I have seen some comments asking if we had responded, therefore, I thought I would chime in a bit about our feelings concerning this and customers service in general.

I will try to save all of you any unnecessary pain and make this as short and sweet as possible- but a few points should be made. It seems like everywhere I go people are always talking about our warranty- most say things like “wow that is genius, what great marketing”. To that I always respond, “well, actually it is not really marketing at all, it is just doing the right thing”. Well, if that statement is true, (which it 100% is) the reality of that is; sometimes doing the right thing means saying “no”. If it were about marketing, we would do the popular thing, which would be, give this fella and many others like him all free packs, snap a few photos of them smiling and send it to our P.R. people. But as any of you that have raised kids know, the right thing is not always the popular thing.

First of all, it is very important before commenting that you read our warranty, I believe Huntup1 posted it (thank you) there is no hidden language and I think by any standards it is the most liberal policy you will ever see. However, it is not meant to be “a free upgrade program” Basically it would defy logic to allow somebody to get a free pack every year by causing damage to it, who would ever buy anything again- just break it. As a matter of fact it defies logic, to allow people to use your products in the harshest conditions possible and agree to fix them for free… Nobody ever called us smart. 

The fact is, in most cases it is enormously difficult to repair damage on a pack, because you basically have to unstitch the entire thing by hand in order to get it under a sewing machine. The results are not always pretty, but they are functional and they are free.
The fact is Chris’s pack was 5 years old, we repaired it for free and I believe that repair is still holding and his pack is still under warranty (for any of you who may want to buy it) and will be fixed again and again at no charge if he desires. I do not care what any one says, not one of our competitors would do that. As I believe you can read from somebody posting Eberlestock’s warranty.


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## badlandspack (Jul 20, 2011)

We live, breathe and bleed customer service here, it is talked about more than any other subject. As a matter of fact; we are so serious about it, we recently invested significant capital to purchase a software, called Sysomos. This allows us to monitor everything being said about our company and brand, in the press and on the internet (yes big brother is watching) and provides us a score card based on not only our competitors but other companies as well. To give you an idea, Nordstrom’s score about a 92.5% positive approval rating, Apple 81%, Delta Airlines about 30% positive. Badland’s score is 98.2% positive.


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## badlandspack (Jul 20, 2011)

We used to spend a ton of time talking about the 1.8% of people who didn’t like us and how we could make them happy. However, a funny thing about human nature is, at a certain point, giving more starts yielding less, warranties are no different. For example, even if we made the choice to take every person who had a problem (whether it was our fault or theirs) and send them a brand new pack, wax their car and take them to dinner, it would only be a matter of time until people’s expectations and sense of entitlement would increase accordingly, soon, some people would complain that we missed a spot on their car and that the entrée was cold All this and we would still miss that elusive 1.8% yet again. Anyone, of you who owns a business knows, you can never make 100% of the people happy – noble goal indeed, realistic, not likely.

In summary, I will let some numbers speak for themselves. We have been in business for 18 years, you do not get there by treating people poorly. In the last five years 2% of all the products we have sold have undergone some sort of work. Which, equals over 11,800. free repairs. Of those 430 were our fault of the 430, - 375 were blown zippers. Well we do not make zippers so we are forced to use what is available, however, we fixed them for free, without asking how old the product was or what happened, even if the pack was 15 years old, we did our best to keep it in the field. At our last estimate we calculated that it cost us $32.45 to perform a repair, take care of the paper work and box it up and send back times that by 11,800 and tell us we do not care. We have also sent out over 1,235. new replacement packs- once again when it is the right thing to do, we do it. And we were doing it long before the internet scared companies into customer service, and we will continue to do it when it is the right thing to do. Not because we fear what people are going to say about us. 

I know I said I would make this short, but I still have a ton I would like to say concerning this matter. If anyone would like to talk further please feel free to give me a call at (801) 978-2207

Thanks 

Bill Crawley


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## rodney482 (Aug 31, 2004)

Give me an example of a defect or damaged pack that would constitute a free replacement pack.







badlandspack said:


> We used to spend a ton of time talking about the 1.8% of people who didn’t like us and how we could make them happy. However, a funny thing about human nature is, at a certain point, giving more starts yielding less, warranties are no different. For example, even if we made the choice to take every person who had a problem (whether it was our fault or theirs) and send them a brand new pack, wax their car and take them to dinner, it would only be a matter of time until people’s expectations and sense of entitlement would increase accordingly, soon, some people would complain that we missed a spot on their car and that the entrée was cold All this and we would still miss that elusive 1.8% yet again. Anyone, of you who owns a business knows, you can never make 100% of the people happy – noble goal indeed, realistic, not likely.
> 
> In summary, I will let some numbers speak for themselves. We have been in business for 18 years, you do not get there by treating people poorly. In the last five years 2% of all the products we have sold have undergone some sort of work. Which, equals over 11,800. free repairs. Of those 430 were our fault of the 430, - 375 were blown zippers. Well we do not make zippers so we are forced to use what is available, however, we fixed them for free, without asking how old the product was or what happened, even if the pack was 15 years old, we did our best to keep it in the field. At our last estimate we calculated that it cost us $32.45 to perform a repair, take care of the paper work and box it up and send back times that by 11,800 and tell us we do not care. We have also sent out over 1,235. new replacement packs- once again when it is the right thing to do, we do it. And we were doing it long before the internet scared companies into customer service, and we will continue to do it when it is the right thing to do. Not because we fear what people are going to say about us.
> 
> ...


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## Tony Hawkins (Feb 7, 2010)

*Thank you for commenting so we know the company's point of view.*

"We have also sent out over 1,235. new replacement packs- once again when it is the right thing to do, we do it."
I think you need to rework/reword your Unconditional Lifetime Warranty. If a repair to ORIGINAL specs is not possible, then a replacement pack should be sent. Honestly, I could make a rapair like that in the pictures at home without sending it in. He wanted the rapair done correctly, and it was not.
I am glad you are enjoying the 98.5% satisfaction now, because if you keep this up I predict it will fall very quickly.


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## tmoran (Dec 9, 2003)

badlandspack said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> My name is Bill Crawley, I started Badlands 18 years ago and have been watching and hearing about this thread for what seems to be an equally long time. The reason I have waited so long to say anything is, we usually do not interfere in what people have to say about us and our products, as we would like it to remain as unbiased as possible. However, I have seen some comments asking if we had responded, therefore, I thought I would chime in a bit about our feelings concerning this and customers service in general.
> 
> ...


My goodness. Save all your customers some time and postage. Send a freeken needle and some thread. Any of your customers can perform that repair. No need to waste the pack owner's time and money. Or change your warranty language to make it clear............maybe a picture of this latest repair.......kind of clarifies what you are and aren't willing to do.


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## toolguru (Jul 7, 2011)

I have two badlands packs and love them. I would not hesitate to buy another. They are the best packs I have had.


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## tango (Jul 1, 2009)

All I have to say is, I have three packs from Badlands and I tore my monster fanny on a fence and they were incredible to work with, enormously friendly and I got my product back in 6 days and it was perfect. I am always rooting for the little guy, however I think there are two sides to every story and the with the internet sometimes the company gets a raw deal because the only people who find the time to post things are the ones who are pissed.


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## robbcayman (Jul 28, 2007)

badlandspack said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> My name is Bill Crawley, I started Badlands 18 years ago and have been watching and hearing about this thread for what seems to be an equally long time. The reason I have waited so long to say anything is, we usually do not interfere in what people have to say about us and our products, as we would like it to remain as unbiased as possible. However, I have seen some comments asking if we had responded, therefore, I thought I would chime in a bit about our feelings concerning this and customers service in general.
> 
> ...


Trust me, no one is asking you to give away free packs. However, to do a crappy needle job and act like it's all good is absurd. Your company did a sloppy repair job from the looks of it. Plus, the guy wanted you to replace the zippers, which he was promised but that never happened. This is a PR nightmare and now you care, because everyone knows. 

Taking care of customers isn't just a cliche. The hunting community is a tight knit group and when word gets out your product isn't as advertised you will lose business quickly. I find it hard to believe that is the best your company can do, and if so, I want no part of it. I would give you a lot of credit if you just admit it was a poor job and an oversight. I understand the economics of business and agree you can't just give away new packs to customers with old ones. However, you have a duty to make the product right and take care of the customer. I'm sorry, but I think you failed on this one. I just hope you change your mind and take care of this guy.


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## tmoran (Dec 9, 2003)

Bill,

Using the analogy of parenting when discussing dealing with customers is just in bad taste. Using the word "entitlement" to describe potential users falls into the same category. This ranks among the most pompous condescending response from a company owner i've seen, at least on AT anyway. Any response short of "this slipped through the cracks" is nothing short of disappointing. In addition to your warranty language, i'll add that when looking at where it's made vs. your suggested retail one could easily assume the price makes up for warranty claims. However, with $32 zipper tab repairs, I can easily see where that assumption is wrong. Maybe you could box it up and send it back to where it was made for the repair? Seemed to work when the pack was manufactured the first time.


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## rutnstrut (Sep 16, 2003)

badlandspack said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> My name is Bill Crawley, I started Badlands 18 years ago and have been watching and hearing about this thread for what seems to be an equally long time. The reason I have waited so long to say anything is, we usually do not interfere in what people have to say about us and our products, as we would like it to remain as unbiased as possible. However, I have seen some comments asking if we had responded, therefore, I thought I would chime in a bit about our feelings concerning this and customers service in general.
> 
> ...


So you are justifying the crappy repair job and p*$$ poor CS?


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## Bobmuley (Jan 14, 2004)

rodney482 said:


> Give me an example of a defect or damaged pack that would constitute a free replacement pack.


Guy Eastman spilling coffee on one.

As far as not being able to get to it with a sewing machine, that is what seam rippers are for. You don't send your car in to the body shop just to have them return a perfectly "functional" car that's been hammered back into shape.

As far as competitor's doing the same for 5-year old packs...untrue in my experience, even without the unconditional warranty.


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## z79outlaw (Oct 5, 2009)

Bobmuley said:


> As far as competitor's doing the same for 5-year old packs...untrue in my experience, even without the unconditional warranty.


No doubt about that, theres quite a few stand up pack companies, they just dont happen to be sold at every Gander or Cabelas. I've never heard of customers from other companies needing to use there warrantys as much as Badlands customers, maybe you guys at Badlands should look at your competitors and see what zippers there using.


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## WYelkhunter (Mar 26, 2006)

According to what the founder has explained it isn't an *UNCONDITIONAL LIFETIME WARRANTY* then. So why then is everybody so excited about Badlands warranty? Also if that is what you think is a quality fix job on a pack that broke your company is losing a lot of respect from people.


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## outdoorsnow (Apr 25, 2006)

I like the fit and function of my Badlands, I have to admit the warranty was also a factor in the purchase.


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## Binney59 (Nov 28, 2008)

That response struck me as extremely pompous and unprofessional. If you stand by your products, fix it to look and perform like the original or send out a new one. Period. If you want to take a lesson in customer service, check out lands end. I have a pair of pants that wore on the bottom from me walking on them (my fault) and would have never returned them as it is clearly normal wear and tear. A lands end employee saw those pants and almost wrestled me to the ground in order to send them back to get me a new pair. I still refused and threw the pants away, but the point is, if you make the claim, stand behind it. They even took back a special edition car that they sold decades before. Does it cost them money- no doubt. Do I pay more knowing they stand behind their products- no doubt. I would have assumed badlands was the same, but I am sorely mistaken. 

From lands end 
"The Lands’ End guarantee has always been an unconditional one. It reads: “*If you’re not satisfied with any item, simply return it to us at any time for an exchange or refund of its purchase price.” We mean every word of it. Whatever. Whenever. Always. But to make sure this is perfectly clear, we’ve decided to simplify it further. Guaranteed. Period.®*


I'd like to return this taxi, please.
As you’d expect, over the years our guarantee has been put to the test. We’ve been given countless opportunities to demonstrate our commitment to customer satisfaction and our willingness to stand behind the products we sell – though none more demonstrative than the return and refund of an original London taxi.

Featured on the cover of our 1984 holiday catalog, the taxi was purchased for $19,000 by a Kansas native as a gift for her husband (an avid car collector). In 2005, her husband contacted Lands’ End and expressed interest in returning the car for a full refund. Of course, we obliged – because whether your purchase includes a tote or a taxi, your satisfaction is Guaranteed. Period.®"


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## yhudson (Apr 24, 2011)

Mr Crawley,

I've owned a BL 2200 pack for the past 6 years. When I replace this pack it will be with another Badlands pack. Your company is one of a kind and I'm sure you and all the employees are proud of the products and warranties you offer. You should be!

As for the Folks here that like to complain, I'll just say their sense of fairness is skewed and it's too bad others like to follow (kinda sheep like I might add). Keep up the good work and recognize the majority of us favor you. 

Yates Hudson


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## Bobmuley (Jan 14, 2004)

yhudson said:


> Keep up the good work ....
> 
> Yates Hudson


...


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## law651 (Jul 7, 2005)

Take the time and fix it right, THats what your customers expect. 
I own a 2200 and I do love it. But..... 
After seeing this crappy fix job and realizing your warantee is just crap. I purchased my wife and father inlaw elberstock x2s for our elk hunt out west. I'm sure elberstock will do as good as job as you did for your customer.
You just lost 2 sales because you did not take the time and fix one pack. I don't expect you to replace packs with new, no one does. But I expect you to use a seam ripper and properly repair a pack if thats what it takes.


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## Binney59 (Nov 28, 2008)

I went back to read the response again, to see if I overreacted, and still cannot believe that "The fact is Chris’s pack was 5 years old" was used in an argument explaining an *unconditional* warranty. Stating the pack is 5 years old is a "condition."


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## WYelkhunter (Mar 26, 2006)

law651 said:


> Take the time and fix it right, THats what your customers expect.
> I own a 2200 and I do love it. But.....
> After seeing this crappy fix job and realizing your warantee is just crap. I purchased my wife and father inlaw elberstock x2s for our elk hunt out west. I'm sure elberstock will do as good as job as you did for your customer.
> You just lost 2 sales because you did not take the time and fix one pack. I don't expect you to replace packs with new, no one does. But I expect you to use a seam ripper and properly repair a pack if thats what it takes.


I totally agree.... I don't expect them to replace the pack but fix it so it looks professional. If that is how they are going to fix a pack why make the customer pay shipping for a job that could be done by anyone who knows how to use a sewing machine or needle and thread. I am looking for a medium sized pack for my antelope and local deer hunting. I was going to look at some badlands packs but not now after this hack job and seeing the response from the Badlands rep.


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## jlh42581 (Oct 21, 2009)

I fell in a creek this year and broke a $900 fly rod from orvis that has a lifetime unconditional warranty. I sent the the rod handle with 1' of graphite attached, it was five years old. The other half of that rod is god knows where and it the section I had laid in the creek for a week till someone caught it. I called them up, paid to ship it both ways and guess what happened when they didnt have the blank to repair it. They called me up and gave me the newest rod out, it just hit the market, they didnt duct tape it and send it back and say well this should work. I always thought badlands had nice looking packs, that response is all I need to hear, never see my business, just wouldnt be right to say yes when everything points to saying no... you said it yourself.


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## archery4life (May 14, 2003)

Well now we have both sides of the story. Like I said in
My initial response the reasons I didn't contact them right away is because I was bit bit upset, but primarily because they were ok with sending out this caliber of repair. What good would it have done to complain if this is their standard?

I started this thread so I could have some others opinions before I contacted them to see if my feelings were justified. It turns out they were. This is the response I expected from them. I am now 100% confident in my decision and switch and glad I sold my pack for $55.00! After paypal fees and shipping that should put about $30.00 in my pocket. Just enough for an Eberlestock bladder to go with my Blue Widow Eberlestock pack.


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## Masheen76 (Nov 28, 2006)

badlandspack said:


> We used to spend a ton of time talking about the 1.8% of people who didn’t like us and how we could make them happy. However, a funny thing about human nature is, at a certain point, giving more starts yielding less, warranties are no different. For example, even if we made the choice to take every person who had a problem (whether it was our fault or theirs) and send them a brand new pack, wax their car and take them to dinner, it would only be a matter of time until people’s expectations and sense of entitlement would increase accordingly, soon, some people would complain that we missed a spot on their car and that the entrée was cold All this and we would still miss that elusive 1.8% yet again. Anyone, of you who owns a business knows, you can never make 100% of the people happy – noble goal indeed, realistic, not likely.
> 
> In summary, I will let some numbers speak for themselves. We have been in business for 18 years, you do not get there by treating people poorly. In the last five years 2% of all the products we have sold have undergone some sort of work. Which, equals over 11,800. free repairs. Of those 430 were our fault of the 430, - 375 were blown zippers. Well we do not make zippers so we are forced to use what is available, however, we fixed them for free, without asking how old the product was or what happened, even if the pack was 15 years old, we did our best to keep it in the field. At our last estimate we calculated that it cost us $32.45 to perform a repair, take care of the paper work and box it up and send back times that by 11,800 and tell us we do not care. We have also sent out over 1,235. new replacement packs- once again when it is the right thing to do, we do it. And we were doing it long before the internet scared companies into customer service, and we will continue to do it when it is the right thing to do. Not because we fear what people are going to say about us.
> 
> ...




You aren't "paying to take someone out to dinner" or "wax their car". What kind of response is that regarding customer service?? You're company makes claims of "unconditional warranty", the "expectations" are a result of those claims. If those expectations are too high or should only be met at your discression then maybe a........***conditional/limited warranty*** would save you the hassle of all those "entitled" masses.

This isn't a case of those 1.8% of people that will never be happy. This is a case of garbage repair that anyone with needle and thread could have done. You got issues with zippers and what they cost and where they're manufactured,...well that's a "badlands" problem, not some person who believed when they spent $200.00 on a pack with an "unconditional" warranty meant those zippers would get properly replaced if they broke. For crying out loud, I've owned a couple jackets over twice as long as my badlands pack and those zippers are still perfectly functional. Find a different zipper guy.

*And we were doing it long before the internet scared companies into customer service, and we will continue to do it when it is the right thing to do. Not because we fear what people are going to say about us* This is comical,...are you really the owner/founder of Badlands??? Because somewhow I don't think this response will come off as good as you thought it might. You have Badlands owners(myself included) as well as potential owners clearly concerned regarding this specific customer service case and future cases. And your response is,.....you pick and choose who to give proper service to and we aren't scared what anyone thinks or says regarding that.

Well thanks for clearing a bunch of things up for me Bill, I'll be going by way of Boise Idaho for my next expensive pack.


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## Alaska at heart (Aug 25, 2009)

My wife does training for her company and is a stickler for customer service, as this will make or break an organization in the long run. I told her about this thread and she is going to use it in her future training as a BAD example of customer service, especially when the company president posts twice with a condescending attitude and references to not being scared of Internet opinion. Already this thread has cost Badlands many current and future sales and I hope they reconsider their position on the 1.8%, as well as the implication of an unlimited lifetime warranty. Obviously the OP is a hardcore hunter and he is precisely the type of customer that a company can build a reputation upon rather than put off with a cobble job repair that escalates into a significant problem. How much smarter to give him a new pack and feature him in an ad touting the quality of your company than treating him like one of your children who needs to be told "no". It might also be prudent to listen to the opinions of actual customers than simply invest in an internet monitoring system that inflates one's ego and gives a false sense of security in a competitive business arena. In all likelihood, you lost a number of customers for life...........which is apparently longer than Badland's warranty.


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## rodney482 (Aug 31, 2004)

Epic Fail.....


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## buckbuck419 (Jan 2, 2011)

That totally backfired.


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## yhudson (Apr 24, 2011)

Alaska at heart said:


> My wife does training for her company and is a stickler for customer service, as this will make or break an organization in the long run. I told her about this thread and she is going to use it in her future training as a BAD example of customer service, especially when the company president posts twice with a condescending attitude and references to not being scared of Internet opinion. Already this thread has cost Badlands many current and future sales and I hope they reconsider their position on the 1.8%, as well as the implication of an unlimited lifetime warranty. Obviously the OP is a hardcore hunter and he is precisely the type of customer that a company can build a reputation upon rather than put off with a cobble job repair that escalates into a significant problem. How much smarter to give him a new pack and feature him in an ad touting the quality of your company than treating him like one of your children who needs to be told "no". It might also be prudent to listen to the opinions of actual customers than simply invest in an internet monitoring system that inflates one's ego and gives a false sense of security in a competitive business arena. In all likelihood, you lost a number of customers for life...........which is apparently longer than Badland's warranty.


I don't agree that just because a person uses this site makes him/her a hardcore user. That fact that users use forums only indicates they are enthusiastic with regard to information on a topic (possibly the top 2% of information gathers). 

Clearly expectations were not met in this case. I tend to believe that maybe the expectations were not realistic. As stated by other respondents... You can never please 100% of the population.


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## rodney482 (Aug 31, 2004)

Just think of how this would have gone had the President of the company came on and said...We dropped the ball, let me ship 
you out a new pack..and keep the old one as well.


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## robbcayman (Jul 28, 2007)

rodney482 said:


> Just think of how this would have gone had the President of the company came on and said...We dropped the ball, let me ship
> you out a new pack..and keep the old one as well.


Yep!! I was hoping to see that, as I'm going on an elk hunt next year. I'm going to need a new pack and I can tell you badlands is out of the running. I don't expect companies to be perfect, but I do expect them to admit their mistakes and make things right.


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## Bobmuley (Jan 14, 2004)

yhudson said:


> Clearly expectations were not met in this case. I tend to believe that maybe the expectations were not realistic. As stated by other respondents... You can never please 100% of the population.


I wonder who's fault that is?


> If you are reading this page, chances are something has not gone well concerning your Balands Pack.
> 
> First of all, let us offer you and your family our condolences and also reassure you that your beloved pack is in the best of hands. Whether or not you realized it at the time, when you purchased your gear From Badlands, you not only bought the finest equipment available, you bought a lifetime of worry free ownership thanks to our now world famous unconditional lifetime warranty.
> 
> ...





> Our warranty was designed to keep your pack in the field for as many years as possible and also to demonstrate our willingness to stand behind our products for the long haul. It was not designed to be a "free upgrade program". Therefore, this is our one caveat (as stated in the warranty). "We will repair your pack for free, forever, no matter whose fault it is, no questions asked", sounds like a square deal to us.
> 
> *A few things you need to know here; in most cases it probably cost less to replace a pack than it does to disassemble and repair it. The other thing is; it is now and always has been our intention to do right by our customers, period.* This a company founded on treating people as we would like to be treated ourselves. Therefore, if it is a case where the product should be replaced, it will be done promptly and without whining. If it makes more senses under the circumstances to repair it, that will be done. Either way, we do it on our dime.





> Q: So if I understand correctly; you will do all this work on my Badland's Pack for free, even though I have abused it and it is clearly my fault?
> 
> A: Yes, what can we say we like to be abused.. However, high as it may be, we do have a threshold for pain. The deal is, we do all the work and fix things for free, but you pay for the cost to ship the pack round trip. Seems like a square deal to us, if it doesn't to you, please give us a call and we will patch you through to another pack company who will do the repairs for free. Oh we can't, because there isn't one.
> 
> ...


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## Bobmuley (Jan 14, 2004)

rodney482 said:


> Just think of how this would have gone had the President of the company came on and said...We dropped the ball, let me ship
> you out a new pack..and keep the old one as well.


I've got 2 packs from Crooked horn sitting on the shelf right now.


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## mcharles (Nov 11, 2009)

Sears used to have an unconditional lifetime warranty on a lot of their items...Craftsman tools especially. Even if you had used a screwdriver as a pry bar and snapped it in two, the floor salesman would apologize, and give you a new one off the shelf. Now it's a big hassle to get them to replace anything, even if it was due to poor quality & not abuse.You paid more for Craftsman, but they had great quality & a great warranty.

They used to be the largest retailer in the world, due in part to the warranty.

Now they are owned by Kmart & are barely existing.

Any parallels?


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## BigBirdVA (Nov 5, 2002)

I had a similar experience with them on a pack. I have one of the older Monster Fanny packs. Finally wore some areas out and sent it in with a detailed letter of the problems. They got it, fixed it and sent it back. When I got it back part of the repairs were not done. So back again it goes. The part they did fix was a crappy tan piece of material over the rod all the way across the front. Same rod they didn't notice sticking out the bottom side of the pack the first time they "fixed it". So using their wonderful repair methods and loophole in the fix it part of the warranty they can just keep sewing pieces of tan crap all over it until the end of time. Like the cute die and go to heaven letter when it's dead it's their promise to resurrect it with a new one. Not a crappy looking patch job. If I wanted a tan checkerboard POS looking pack I would have bought one. If they can't make a repair that keeps in line with the camo pattern as I bought it then they can't repair it IMHO and need to honor their part of the deal. If you wrecked your car and the insurance company replaced it with a different color fender and bumper but said it still drives the same would you be happy? I have a couple of their packs, convinced several others to buy their packs, but after seeing this is the normal way they operate I will NOT be buying another one. My friends will all know about it too. 

One question does bug me. What the heck did the guys do to the packs they claim to have replaced? Guess I need to hang it on a tree and let it just rot to pieces and then send it in.


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## rodney482 (Aug 31, 2004)

BigBirdVA said:


> I had a similar experience with them on a pack. I have one of the older Monster Fanny packs. Finally wore some areas out and sent it in with a detailed letter of the problems. They got it, fixed it and sent it back. When I got it back part of the repairs were not done. So back again it goes. The part they did fix was a crappy tan piece of material over the rod all the way across the front. Same rod they didn't notice sticking out the bottom side of the pack the first time they "fixed it". So using their wonderful repair methods and loophole in the fix it part of the warranty they can just keep sewing pieces of tan crap all over it until the end of time. Like the cute die and go to heaven letter when it's dead it's their promise to resurrect it with a new one. Not a crappy looking patch job. If I wanted a tan checkerboard POS looking pack I would have bought one. If they can't make a repair that keeps in line with the camo pattern as I bought it then they can't repair it IMHO and need to honor their part of the deal. If you wrecked your car and the insurance company replaced it with a different color fender and bumper but said it still drives the same would you be happy? I have a couple of their packs, convinced several others to buy their packs, but and after seeing this is the normal way they operate I will NOT be buying another one.
> 
> One question does bug me. What the heck did the guys do to the packs they claim to have replaced?


yeah? oops dropped it through a wood chipper.... start sewing. lol


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## Alaska at heart (Aug 25, 2009)

yhudson said:


> I don't agree that just because a person uses this site makes him/her a hardcore user. That fact that users use forums only indicates they are enthusiastic with regard to information on a topic (possibly the top 2% of information gathers).
> 
> Clearly expectations were not met in this case. I tend to believe that maybe the expectations were not realistic. As stated by other respondents... You can never please 100% of the population.


Read the initial post on this thread again.............I believe THAT is what indicates the guy is a hardcore pack user. Indeed some on AT are more posers than hardcores, but it is obvious when you are reading the post of someone who is hunting hard and putting in the extra mile. As Rodney aptly pointed out, Badlands president had the opportunity to resolve this in a win-win manner and instead dropped the ball big time. Expectations for an unconditional warranty are simply that the product will continue to perform or will be repaired in a professional manner.........which this pack was not.

So Y............who is saying "Baaaaa" like a good sheep?????


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## WYelkhunter (Mar 26, 2006)

I just can't believe anyone would approve that repair job and send it out..... Then the owner of the company come on here and defend the job saying it is quality and be so forward in standing behind not fixing the pack right....


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## BigBirdVA (Nov 5, 2002)

rodney482 said:


> yeah? oops dropped it through a wood chipper.... start sewing. lol


No you would get a hodgepodge tan CF of a pack back with the new break sooner zippers on it. 1.8% and growing.


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## Bobmuley (Jan 14, 2004)

yhudson said:


> Mr Crawley,
> 
> I've owned a BL 2200 pack for the past 6 years. When I replace this pack it will be with another Badlands pack. Your company is one of a kind and I'm sure you and all the employees are proud of the products and warranties you offer. You should be!
> 
> ...


So what do you really know about Badlands other than owning a pack for 6 years? If you're gonna call me a sheep, I want to know your affiliation with the sheperd.


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## rodney482 (Aug 31, 2004)

Bobmuley said:


> So what do you really know about Badlands other than owning a pack for 6 years? If you're gonna call me a sheep, I want to know your affiliation with the sheperd.


Yeah what Bob said.


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## dwagaman (Nov 7, 2010)

This has been an interesting thread to follow. I can certainly see both sides of the story and do believe the repair that was depicted in the photo was not professional. If that repair had been done properly this thread more than likely would not be here. That being said......

I can see where a company would not want to send out a new pack to every customer that wants one or needs a repair. To me its very similar to nuisance lawsuits where companies pay rather than fight because its cheaper. Next thing you know you are buried in lawsuits looking for a pay out. I'm in no way suggesting the OP was trying to take advantage of the situation, I'm just saying there are people that do. When you tell someone you will replace something no matter what they do to it, you will have those people that will do things that clearly are unreasonable and exceed the expectations of the product.

I still find it comical that there are people who are upset that they only got five years out of their $160.00 pack....Too bad the bow and boot manufacturers don't have the same warranty. I could be shooting a 30 yr old Proline bow and wearing my hunting boots from high school !!! At some point things need to be replaced. I'm sure I'll get flamed but I could care less. This thread became silly a longtime ago.


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## WYelkhunter (Mar 26, 2006)

I don't think the majority of the people think the pack should be replaced, but that it was such a shady job of repairing the pack and they won't admit it.


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## NorthernMN (Aug 19, 2005)

badlandspack said:


> We used to spend a ton of time talking about the 1.8% of people who didn’t like us and how we could make them happy. However, a funny thing about human nature is, at a certain point, giving more starts yielding less, warranties are no different. For example, even if we made the choice to take every person who had a problem (whether it was our fault or theirs) and send them a brand new pack, wax their car and take them to dinner, it would only be a matter of time until people’s expectations and sense of entitlement would increase accordingly, soon, some people would complain that we missed a spot on their car and that the entrée was cold All this and we would still miss that elusive 1.8% yet again. Anyone, of you who owns a business knows, you can never make 100% of the people happy – noble goal indeed, realistic, not likely.
> 
> In summary, I will let some numbers speak for themselves. We have been in business for 18 years, you do not get there by treating people poorly. In the last five years 2% of all the products we have sold have undergone some sort of work. Which, equals over 11,800. free repairs. Of those 430 were our fault of the 430, - 375 were blown zippers. Well we do not make zippers so we are forced to use what is available, however, we fixed them for free, without asking how old the product was or what happened, even if the pack was 15 years old, we did our best to keep it in the field. At our last estimate we calculated that it cost us $32.45 to perform a repair, take care of the paper work and box it up and send back times that by 11,800 and tell us we do not care. We have also sent out over 1,235. new replacement packs- once again when it is the right thing to do, we do it. And we were doing it long before the internet scared companies into customer service, and we will continue to do it when it is the right thing to do. Not because we fear what people are going to say about us.
> 
> ...


You're right, you can't make 100% of people happy. You certainly can't if you don't bother to try. Warranty repairs aren't "free". The cost is built into the product and we all know it. I guess we should all hail thanks to the kind and generous king for the free fixes handed down to the peasants. You probably lost a few customers before you responded to this thread. You likely lost more after you responded. I am going to go stand in that group of 1.8%. Feel free to recalculate.


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## dwagaman (Nov 7, 2010)

WYelkhunter said:


> I don't think the majority of the people think the pack should be replaced, but that it was such a shady job of repairing the pack and they won't admit it.


Agreed.........Should have been repaired correctly.


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## nnelzon23 (Mar 19, 2011)

This may be one of the craziest responses I have heard, stated by a company, directed directly to their customers. I am in the market for a new pack. When this thread posted it had me somewhat concerned about the this company. Thank you for clearing things up for me, I now know that I should stay away from Badlands. 

Also in the growing 1.8%, consider each of the average ten people, those involved in this thread will talk to about your product. I have a hunt this fall with my two brothers and another friend. None of these people even care to know what archerytalk is. Do you think they will be sporting Badlands packs? No, not because they read any of this, but because they know me and I have read this thread.

Thank you for clearing things up!


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## newguy1980 (Jul 21, 2011)

Hello everyone long time reader 1st time post for me, please forgive any gramer or spelling i only went to public school. NOW i think there is something here we are not seeing and i will post my thoughts on this. But 1st nnelzon23 & everyone else who is going to tell there friends not to buy well I have 3 brothers 2 brother in laws and over 5,000 facebook friends (3499 are pending) but i can play this game as well and i am going to tell everyone i know not to buy Martin Onza 3 65#, QAD, G5, EP, Doinker, Easton because you shoot them so i will no be sporting them because you do.....yea i can play that game as well.......I just love late nights a cold drink and active forum.


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## nnelzon23 (Mar 19, 2011)

That is fine, I have no affiliation with them, simply state what I shoot. I also drive a ford and live in a split-level house if you would tell your friends that. I have 120 or so guns and a ton of fishing gear. If you would like I can pm you the brands so that you can get that info out as well. I pay for these items, I dont expect people to pay me, for them.


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## newguy1980 (Jul 21, 2011)

Now i have a couple of theories on this post so here is #1 "Hunting season is close & i want a new pack" Guy who started this post you bought this pack 5 years ago and used it and then the strap broke and you sent it in and they fixed it for free (not to your standards or others) you then had a shipping nightmare and the zippers were not fixed. but the job they did worked no problems just a little ugly and you were able to use it. Now you posted this topic then send a copy of it to Badlands. you say you wanted to see if you were in the wrong and you didnt mean for this to go bad for the company. ARE YOU KIDDING ME you know what you were doing and like the 30xxx guy said dont sugar coat it you wanted a free pack. the time you took to post this and then take the time to email Badlands and then post more stuff and then read this post and then post again....and you say you didnt want this to go bad for the company, i bet you even sent this link to Eberlestock to show them you are on their side. Now i am not siding with Badlands here (they are not made in USA so i dont buy anyway) dont you think this could have been handled with a phone call, sure you may have had to wait for a response but it would have been a lot more easier if you didnt like the job call them and if they dont respond call again dont play the victim on a fourm and say you didnt mean for this to happen and flip flop (this could be a good lifetime movie) I see where you are coming from but call the company and for those of you who are all following this guy over this post all i have to say is wow the sheep comment may be right. From what i can see is this guy wants a free pack and wanted to destroy a company for not getting one he may say its about a repair but you can tell what his intentions were. And Badlands guy Bill....what were you thinking you should know by now you can never win on the internet. I think Badlands should buy this poor guy a good USA made backpack so he can get what he wants and all his followers will agree and say the little guy - 1 big company - 0.............Now dont get mad this is all in fun. that is theory #1


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## IMADMAN (Jan 24, 2005)

badlandspack said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> My name is Bill Crawley, I started Badlands 18 years ago and have been watching and hearing about this thread for what seems to be an equally long time. The reason I have waited so long to say anything is, we usually do not interfere in what people have to say about us and our products, as we would like it to remain as unbiased as possible. However, I have seen some comments asking if we had responded, therefore, I thought I would chime in a bit about our feelings concerning this and customers service in general.
> 
> ...



******************The fact is, in most cases it is enormously difficult to repair damage on a pack, because you basically have to unstitch the entire thing by hand in order to get it under a sewing machine. The results are not always pretty, but they are functional and they are free.*********************

???? Sooooooo, what are you saying, the company is to lazy to fix it properly, or don't have the proper sewing machines???? I can only assume you don't manufacture the product, just import it and put your name on it? How about this- replace a warranted item, repair the damaged item and sell at a discount with a "limited" warranty.


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## newguy1980 (Jul 21, 2011)

Theory #2 "Badlands vs Eberlestock" and what made me want to post all this is the guy who said "you can tell Badlands did sponsor this site or this post would have been deleted" is it me or dose anyone else here think its weird that a good majority of the people are saying they are going to leave Badlands or "i was going to buy Badlands but now i am not i am going to buy Eberlestock" what about Blacks Creek, Mystery Ranch (usa made), sitka, game plan, horn hunter (usa made), crooked horn, Kuiu. sure some have been mention but Its all about going to Eberlestock and what better way to get free press during the start of hunting season then start a East Coast vs West Coast rivalry (that is a hip hop reference by the way. google it) to sell more packs. I may be wrong here but this looks like a good marketing plan from Eberlestock, because to have so many people say they are going to switch or not buy Badlands all for some guy they never met, who had ONE bad experience with a company who has been in business for 18 YEARS (as Mr. Bill puts it). I am smelling a SET UP . And Badlands I would not be surprised if you were not in on this as well and this Bill Crawley guy is really some marketing guy paid to sit behind a computer and write this stuff and the next day you will give this poor guy a free pack and win the hearts of everyone. If you stop and think about the old saying there is no such thing as bad press. the only thing worse for Badlands is that nobody is talking about them at all and this a great way to market their warranty and show people it is legit. 

So that is my take on all and i think we all been HAD buy a brilliant marketing plan. Because if this post is real and you read this and see the amount of people who will follow this total stranger and say they will never ever buy Badlands and buy Eberlestock ( i know there were others but the main pack was???) all because of one guy is amazing......I am sorry I am not buying it.

So here i am a total stranger and i say this PEOPLE go off your own experiences when dealing with a company dont buy in to forums/prostaff/TV/blogs we are hunting not saving the world and if you have a problem with someone do it the old fashion way pick up the phone and call them dont cry on a forum and when you call pray you get someone who speaks english.....again this is all in fun dont get mad and i now have a lot more respect for Eberlestock for this great marketing plan, i may buy one just for that (j/k)


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## newguy1980 (Jul 21, 2011)

So nnelzon23 let me asking you something you are going to go out of your way to tell people not to buy things because of this post? do you really know any of these people? how do you know if they are all legit and you are not some puppet they are playing????? what if Badlands owns Ebelestock!! ever think of that????? kind of how Easton owns Hoyt & Delta Targets???? or do you work for Eberlestock?????? and if you have so many guns why are you on archery talk??????but the truth of the matter is I have more guns then you and i wont buy anything you have......j/k


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## Deadfall (Apr 9, 2008)

Is it possible that newguy1980 is Bill Crawley?


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## JMaier (Nov 3, 2009)

Well... I read the entire thing... Post for post. I was looking for a new pack. A big pack. Badlands was on the top of the list, but no longer. Not because of the first post. I understand that every company will have some bad reviews. Find me a company that doesn't. I was willing to accept that and still make the big investment. Then, I read the post from THE MAN himself. He pretty much sealed the fate for Badlands. It was a HORRIBLE post. Badlands would have been out about $100 to send this guy a new pack. Now, they're out 10 or 20 times that thanks to the response. Although I do understand his point of view. Standing behind his company and their choice. Standing up for his company and not breaking down. I don't understand why he wouldn't save face and just deal with the loss. Had that happened, "Hey. Our bad. Here's a new pack, keep the old one", I would have probably spent a good $700 on Badlands stuff this year. Too bad. I'm sure my $700 is just a drop in the bucket and he won't give a damn. But the fact remains, I won't be putting $700 in their pocket.


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## dwagaman (Nov 7, 2010)

newguy1980 has some interesting points. This thread always felt questionable to me at best. This is my biggest question............The OP says this pack was damaged in August of 2010 while hunting deer, just before elk season. The repair was done presumably before or around Sept 2010. Why now? Why wasn't this handled last year? Could it have anything to do with the OP wanting a new pack for the 2011 season which starts in approx a month? I honestly think that was the motivation behind the entire thread. Get everyone fired up, contact Badlands with a link to the thread (which he did), and pressure them into giving him a shiny new pack for 2011.

The Repair.....Has anyone considered that the repair was done to accommodate the OP's timeline? He was in a real time crunch and needed his pack "functional" yesterday for an Elk hunt he had waited five years to draw. Was there time to pull the pack apart and put it back together or did Badlands repair it as quickly as possible so their customer would have a functional pack for his hunt?

I looked at the Eberlestock Blue Widow as a possible new pack this year. I chose Badlands because I have always had good luck with their gear. The Blue Widow was also about 35% more expensive than the comparable Badlands version which was about $100 more. I couldn't see what I was getting for the extra $100 honestly. Why is Eberlestock the only competitor mentioned in this thread??

The more I read the OP, the more I question the motives and story, and the more this thread stinks.......


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## scrapejuice (Dec 1, 2003)

tagged to read entire responses later


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## WYelkhunter (Mar 26, 2006)

Deadfall said:


> Is it possible that newguy1980 is Bill Crawley?



mmmmmmm something is fishy????????


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## dwagaman (Nov 7, 2010)

WYelkhunter said:


> mmmmmmm something is fishy????????


Didn't seem like Bill was afraid to speak for himself openly.....................


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## NorthernMN (Aug 19, 2005)

newguy1980 said:


> Theory #2 "Badlands vs Eberlestock" and what made me want to post all this is the guy who said "you can tell Badlands did sponsor this site or this post would have been deleted" is it me or dose anyone else here think its weird that a good majority of the people are saying they are going to leave Badlands or "i was going to buy Badlands but now i am not i am going to buy Eberlestock" what about Blacks Creek, Mystery Ranch (usa made), sitka, game plan, horn hunter (usa made), crooked horn, Kuiu. sure some have been mention but Its all about going to Eberlestock and what better way to get free press during the start of hunting season then start a East Coast vs West Coast rivalry (that is a hip hop reference by the way. google it) to sell more packs. I may be wrong here but this looks like a good marketing plan from Eberlestock, because to have so many people say they are going to switch or not buy Badlands all for some guy they never met, who had ONE bad experience with a company who has been in business for 18 YEARS (as Mr. Bill puts it). I am smelling a SET UP . And Badlands I would not be surprised if you were not in on this as well and this Bill Crawley guy is really some marketing guy paid to sit behind a computer and write this stuff and the next day you will give this poor guy a free pack and win the hearts of everyone. If you stop and think about the old saying there is no such thing as bad press. the only thing worse for Badlands is that nobody is talking about them at all and this a great way to market their warranty and show people it is legit.
> 
> So that is my take on all and i think we all been HAD buy a brilliant marketing plan. Because if this post is real and you read this and see the amount of people who will follow this total stranger and say they will never ever buy Badlands and buy Eberlestock ( i know there were others but the main pack was???) all because of one guy is amazing......I am sorry I am not buying it.
> 
> So here i am a total stranger and i say this PEOPLE go off your own experiences when dealing with a company dont buy in to forums/prostaff/TV/blogs we are hunting not saving the world and if you have a problem with someone do it the old fashion way pick up the phone and call them dont cry on a forum and when you call pray you get someone who speaks english.....again this is all in fun dont get mad and i now have a lot more respect for Eberlestock for this great marketing plan, i may buy one just for that (j/k)


Yeah, the OP is really a secret marketing agent for Eberlestock that joined this forum 8 years ago and posted over 900 time just to gain some believe-ability so he could wait for just the right moment to pounce with a bad customer service story about Badlands. If the PR folks at Badlands came up with this strategy for you to deal with this problem you should walk down to their desks right now and fire them. First rule of being in a hole, stop digging.


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## Dillzer (Aug 11, 2009)

NorthernMN said:


> Yeah, the OP is really a secret marketing agent for Eberlestock that joined this forum 8 years ago and posted over 900 time just to gain some believe-ability so he could wait for just the right moment to pounce with a bad customer service story about Badlands. If the PR folks at Badlands came up with this strategy for you to deal with this problem you should walk down to their desks right now and fire them. First rule of being in a hole, stop digging.


Lol I would like to nominate this post for "Post of the day" . It is only 8am though.


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## rodney482 (Aug 31, 2004)

dwagaman said:


> newguy1980 has some interesting points. This thread always felt questionable to me at best. This is my biggest question............The OP says this pack was damaged in August of 2010 while hunting deer, just before elk season. The repair was done presumably before or around Sept 2010. Why now? Why wasn't this handled last year? Could it have anything to do with the OP wanting a new pack for the 2011 season which starts in approx a month? I honestly think that was the motivation behind the entire thread. Get everyone fired up, contact Badlands with a link to the thread (which he did), and pressure them into giving him a shiny new pack for 2011.
> 
> The Repair.....Has anyone considered that the repair was done to accommodate the OP's timeline? He was in a real time crunch and needed his pack "functional" yesterday for an Elk hunt he had waited five years to draw. Was there time to pull the pack apart and put it back together or did Badlands repair it as quickly as possible so their customer would have a functional pack for his hunt?
> 
> ...



Forget all the posts, dates or even motive...


The pictures and badlands response sealed the deal for me.

I honestly thought the OP was joking when I saw the pics...

I have a camelbak commander that cost like $100 and its 8 years old and I have never had straps come apart.

When I buy a product I look hard at the warranty..I give huge props to companies that exceed my expectations in this Dept, like:

Vortex
G5
Athens
Elite
Truball

When it comes to my hunting equipment I buy the very best and expect it to last for many hunting seasons. 

I was in the market for a pack that I could bring out an elk quarter and use as a day pack..I was looking at three packs 2200, full curl and the X2....

The pics and company response reduced my list to two packs.


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## JMaier (Nov 3, 2009)

rodney482 said:


> Forget all the posts, dates or even motive...
> 
> 
> The pictures and badlands response sealed the deal for me.
> ...


This is the same reason my list has been reduced by 1.

The OP's incident made me think twice, the post from Badlands sealed it.


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## WYelkhunter (Mar 26, 2006)

dwagaman said:


> Didn't seem like Bill was afraid to speak for himself openly.....................


It might not be him but I would be willing to wager it is someone affiliated with Badlands......

"And Badlands I would not be surprised if you were not in on this as well and this Bill Crawley guy is really some marketing guy paid to sit behind a computer and write this stuff and the next day you will give this poor guy a free pack and win the hearts of everyone. If you stop and think about the old saying there is no such thing as bad press."

even if they did give the OP a new pack now I wouldn't be impressed at all with Badlands company..... way to late to try and make it right at this point


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## rodney482 (Aug 31, 2004)

WYelkhunter said:


> It might not be him but I would be willing to wager it is someone affiliated with Badlands......
> 
> "And Badlands I would not be surprised if you were not in on this as well and this Bill Crawley guy is really some marketing guy paid to sit behind a computer and write this stuff and the next day you will give this poor guy a free pack and win the hearts of everyone. If you stop and think about the old saying there is no such thing as bad press."
> 
> even if they did give the OP a new pack now I wouldn't be impressed at all with Badlands company..... way to late to try and make it right at this point


I agree...giving him a pack now would just be 2 black eyes.


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## hunt1up (Sep 4, 2009)

UNCONDITIONAL LIFETIME WARRANTY, so long as it is deemed reasonable by us. What a load.

Look at Matco or Snap-on tools. They are crazy expensive as far as tools go. Sure, most guys could use some Ace Hardware tools to get the job done, but instead they buy the high end stuff, for the WARRANTY and customer service. Hell no, a ratchet doesn't cost $100 bucks to make, but you are paying for a service, in addition to the product. That is how I've always assumed Badlands packs were. 

I always thought by paying the high prices for a Badlands pack, that I was getting that "in case I need it" service. I even told a few other people to buy Badlands when I initially purchased mine. Trust me, from now on, I will tell everyone I know to NOT purchase one. Period. I might even sell the one I have, so I don't have to look at it and wonder if I'll get what I paid for, if an issue arises.

Truely unbelieveable, unprofessional, and misleading.


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## -bowfreak- (Oct 18, 2006)

Update on Badlands warranty: We will fix it....as long as it is easy."


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## -bowfreak- (Oct 18, 2006)

Bobmuley said:


> Guy Eastman spilling coffee on one.


Congratulations for possibly the funniest thing I have read in a long time. That is the thing about humor though.....it's brilliance is in it's plausibility.:77:


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## Redcell (Jun 23, 2008)

badlandspack said:


> We used to spend a ton of time talking about the 1.8% of people who didn’t like us and how we could make them happy. However, a funny thing about human nature is, at a certain point, giving more starts yielding less, warranties are no different. For example, even if we made the choice to take every person who had a problem (whether it was our fault or theirs) and send them a brand new pack, wax their car and take them to dinner, it would only be a matter of time until people’s expectations and sense of entitlement would increase accordingly, soon, some people would complain that we missed a spot on their car and that the entrée was cold All this and we would still miss that elusive 1.8% yet again. Anyone, of you who owns a business knows, you can never make 100% of the people happy – noble goal indeed, realistic, not likely.
> 
> In summary, I will let some numbers speak for themselves. We have been in business for 18 years, you do not get there by treating people poorly. In the last five years 2% of all the products we have sold have undergone some sort of work. Which, equals over 11,800. free repairs. Of those 430 were our fault of the 430, - 375 were blown zippers. Well we do not make zippers so we are forced to use what is available, however, we fixed them for free, without asking how old the product was or what happened, even if the pack was 15 years old, we did our best to keep it in the field. At our last estimate we calculated that it cost us $32.45 to perform a repair, take care of the paper work and box it up and send back times that by 11,800 and tell us we do not care. We have also sent out over 1,235. new replacement packs- once again when it is the right thing to do, we do it. And we were doing it long before the internet scared companies into customer service, and we will continue to do it when it is the right thing to do. Not because we fear what people are going to say about us.
> 
> ...


First off we are hunters not welfare recipients so to assume we want more and more is wrong. It is your warranty and that is why half of us bought your pack. So we would not or could not replace a pack in 5 or 8 years. I do not think the OP was looking for a new pack he was not happy with the look of the repairs and zippers were still broken. My next question is why not hand stich repairs? Dose that stitching pass QC as a badlands repair?


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## yhudson (Apr 24, 2011)

Bobmuley said:


> So what do you really know about Badlands other than owning a pack for 6 years? If you're gonna call me a sheep, I want to know your affiliation with the sheperd.


Other than owning a Badlands pack I've got no affiliation. If you think I called you a sheep... Maybe that fits. I honestly don't think it does. 

If I had used my pack to tow a buddy 's truck out of a hole, would I expect them to fix my pack? Nothing lasts forever. Their warranty simply extends the life of "used hard packs". Pretty cool offer I think. 

The Craftsman comparison. Craftsman became a great company by leveraging the experiences of experts in the "tool business". Investment Bankers came in a bought them, who didn't know squat about tools and simply screwed the company up.


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## newguy1980 (Jul 21, 2011)

the plot thickens even more now and I am Badlands or Badlands is me I dont care who you think i am because i could care less about both companies. and still no talk about other brands. look at the warranty for mystery ranch, they have the best one and they are made here in USA and NOBODY is talking about them still. And the OP yea he may not work for eberlestock but i bet he sent them this email saying he was the one posting it with his hand out. 

all the forums have turned into companies hiring guys and giving away free product just to have them talk about their stuf. its cheap, easy, fast and in some cases FREE. Look the Athens field staff coordinator we are in the peak of bowhunting season and this guy claims he works for Athens (or coordinates their fields) and as most bow manufactures are busy this time of year this guy is here posting every chance he gets and he is talking about Backpacks???? my case in point is most of post on here are from people who either get free stuff or they get a deal from the manufacture just to promote there brand.


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## Masheen76 (Nov 28, 2006)

newguy1980 said:


> the plot thickens even more now and I am Badlands or Badlands is me I dont care who you think i am because i could care less about both companies. and still no talk about other brands. look at the warranty for mystery ranch, they have the best one and they are made here in USA and NOBODY is talking about them still. And the OP yea he may not work for eberlestock but i bet he sent them this email saying he was the one posting it with his hand out.
> 
> all the forums have turned into companies hiring guys and giving away free product just to have them talk about their stuf. its cheap, easy, fast and in some cases FREE. Look the Athens field staff coordinator we are in the peak of bowhunting season and this guy claims he works for Athens (or coordinates their fields) and as most bow manufactures are busy this time of year this guy is here posting every chance he gets and he is talking about Backpacks???? my case in point is most of post on here are from people who either get free stuff or they get a deal from the manufacture just to promote there brand.



I don't know where you get your info, but I do not get any of my hunting gear for free and I got no deal from any manufacturer, I paid full price for my Badlands. I also highly doubt "most of post on here are from people" that are not in the same boat as myself in regards to paying for gear.

The point of this entire thread is and always has been,.......don't offer this great "unconditional warranty" if it's not truly "unconditional". Badlands warranty itself is the one that claimed it is often cheaper to simply replace a pack instead of repair it. Not many people (myself included) think this pack needs to be replaced with a new one. But to claim that repair was clean and proper is a travesty. Don't come here and tell the masses that it is too difficult to repair properly, they're a high end pack manufacturer, I think they have the technology.


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## BigBirdVA (Nov 5, 2002)

This isn't a comparison thread on who has the best warranty or what other companies do. This is about Badlands and what they do when you have a warranty claim. I used mine a long time until it wore out. I expected a repair that put it back in the same condition and _appearance_ as new or a replacement. That's what their catchy and cute ads state. That's why I paid more for their pack. But next time I send it in I can guarantee you no amount of tan material, sweat shop stitching and break away zippers will be able to restore it.

I think anyone owning one and reading this will know exactly what condition it needs to be returned to them in so they can "honor" their part of the deal.


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## rodney482 (Aug 31, 2004)

newguy1980 said:


> the plot thickens even more now and I am Badlands or Badlands is me I dont care who you think i am because i could care less about both companies. and still no talk about other brands. look at the warranty for mystery ranch, they have the best one and they are made here in USA and NOBODY is talking about them still. And the OP yea he may not work for eberlestock but i bet he sent them this email saying he was the one posting it with his hand out.
> 
> all the forums have turned into companies hiring guys and giving away free product just to have them talk about their stuf. its cheap, easy, fast and in some cases FREE. Look the Athens field staff coordinator we are in the peak of bowhunting season and this guy claims he works for Athens (or coordinates their fields) and as most bow manufactures are busy this time of year this guy is here posting every chance he gets and he is talking about Backpacks???? my case in point is most of post on here are from people who either get free stuff or they get a deal from the manufacture just to promote there brand.



Actually I am just pretending..but dont tell anyone...ok... :thumb:


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## newguy1980 (Jul 21, 2011)

I agree if this post is legit then Badlands should have paid for the shipping back to them and fix the pack to his standards.......then why did he do that he made it a point to write this post and then email Badlands and tell them about this post. why didnt he pick up the phone and call and say "heyfix this correctly" instead he jumps on this eberlestock campaign, really what were his motives? And Big Bird you learned your lesson so i ask you what pack are going to be using from here on out? Thats what you all get for not buying american made. 

masheen76 was i talking to you? did i bring up your name? why are you making this all about you now????? i dont care where you bought your stuff. And yes this is about a warranty and Badlands did fixed it no matter how old it was and it did work however it did look like crap but what do you expect when the packs are not even made here they are made over seas. This guy just wanted a new pack and wanted to use this forum to bully his way in to one and promote Eberlestock because he was mad at Badlands.......OHHHH a new theory........And you people who keep posting dont you have jobs????????? (that reminds me i am late peace out) more to come on the Badlands vs Eberlestock saga......... again i think we have all been had by both companies........Come on all you sheep people agree with me.......  lol j/k


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## hunt1up (Sep 4, 2009)

newguy1980 said:


> I agree if this post is legit then Badlands should have paid for the shipping back to them and fix the pack to his standards.......then why did he do that he made it a point to write this post and then email Badlands and tell them about this post. why didnt he pick up the phone and call and say "heyfix this correctly" instead he jumps on this eberlestock campaign, really what were his motives? And Big Bird you learned your lesson so i ask you what pack are going to be using from here on out? Thats what you all get for not buying american made.
> 
> masheen76 was i talking to you? did i bring up your name? why are you making this all about you now????? i dont care where you bought your stuff. And yes this is about a warranty and Badlands did fixed it no matter how old it was and it did work however it did look like crap but what do you expect when the packs are not even made here they are made over seas. This guy just wanted a new pack and wanted to use this forum to bully his way in to one and promote Eberlestock because he was mad at Badlands.......OHHHH a new theory........And you people who keep posting dont you have jobs????????? (that reminds me i am late peace out) more to come on the Badlands vs Eberlestock saga......... again i think we have all been had by both companies........Come on all you sheep people agree with me.......  lol j/k


Since I mentioned Eberlestock ealier. I own a Badlands, but my latest purchase was an Eberlestock. I reseached them all. I found a used Eberlestock online that had a description that didn't match the pictures. I called Eberlestock and informed them that I was looking at a used pack and that I'd found some issues with the classified ad. They were more than helpful and gave me all the info I needed, so that I could buy a USED pack. They didn't even make any money off me but took the time to properly explain their products to me, in a nice and professional manner. I ended up telling the seller how his ad was incorrect, and later found another used Eberlestock pack to purchase. 

I am not here to preach Eberlestock only. If I had my choice I'd buy all Mystery Ranch stuff, but the wallet doesn't like the idea. I do know for a fact what brand I won't be recommending to my fellow hunters in the future though.


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## nelliott (Feb 22, 2008)

I had a problem with Bear Archery about 4 years ago and got 5 different bows that were all defective. I finally called the BBB and left a message with the VP. After 4 months they finally made it right but I was so pi$$ed at that point I sold the bow as soon as it came in. Maybe you should let them know about this thread and that you will contact the BBB if they dont fix it as the warranty states. I have a whitetail pack and really like the pockets it has. However I have seen a lot of comments about badlands and have looked into the eberlestock pretty hard...


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## Masheen76 (Nov 28, 2006)

newguy1980 said:


> I agree if this post is legit then Badlands should have paid for the shipping back to them and fix the pack to his standards.......then why did he do that he made it a point to write this post and then email Badlands and tell them about this post. why didnt he pick up the phone and call and say "heyfix this correctly" instead he jumps on this eberlestock campaign, really what were his motives? And Big Bird you learned your lesson so i ask you what pack are going to be using from here on out? Thats what you all get for not buying american made.
> 
> masheen76 was i talking to you? did i bring up your name? why are you making this all about you now????? i dont care where you bought your stuff. And yes this is about a warranty and Badlands did fixed it no matter how old it was and it did work however it did look like crap but what do you expect when the packs are not even made here they are made over seas. This guy just wanted a new pack and wanted to use this forum to bully his way in to one and promote Eberlestock because he was mad at Badlands.......OHHHH a new theory........And you people who keep posting dont you have jobs????????? (that reminds me i am late peace out) more to come on the Badlands vs Eberlestock saga......... again i think we have all been had by both companies........Come on all you sheep people agree with me.......  lol j/k


When you say, *my case in point is most of post on here are from people who either get free stuff or they get a deal from the manufacture just to promote there brand. 
*, in the context of reading comprehension it's safe to conclude I fit into "most people" on this thread. Now if you actually meant "specific" or "certain" people I doubt I would have felt compelled to reference your post. I've not made this "all about me". 

What does it matter where these packs are manufactured? That's a Badlands issue, not a consumer issue. They have an unconditional warranty, and nearly everyone on this thread agrees the repair "attempt" was lame at best,......I.E. unsatisfactory.

I missed where the OP openly demanded he was campaigning for a brand new replacement. More specifically, he posted an experience on a forum seeking feedback in regards to what others thought/would do if put in the same situation. That is exactly what this forum is designed for.


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## mez (Feb 22, 2010)

It is kind of amusing that we have 7 pages of pack company bashing and touting and I asked a pack question yesterday and few seemed interested in actually discussing the products.


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## WYelkhunter (Mar 26, 2006)

This thread has nothing to do with badlands vs. Eberlestock... in fact I use Kifaru....their warranty is way better than Badlands....


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## Bobmuley (Jan 14, 2004)

yhudson said:


> Other than owning a Badlands pack I've got no affiliation. If you think I called you a sheep... Maybe that fits. I honestly don't think it does.
> 
> If I had used my pack to tow a buddy 's truck out of a hole, would I expect them to fix my pack? Nothing lasts forever. Their warranty simply extends the life of "used hard packs". Pretty cool offer I think.
> 
> The Craftsman comparison. Craftsman became a great company by leveraging the experiences of experts in the "tool business". Investment Bankers came in a bought them, who didn't know squat about tools and simply screwed the company up.


Well here is what you said:


> Mr Crawley,
> 
> I've owned a BL 2200 pack for the past 6 years. When I replace this pack it will be with another Badlands pack. *Your company is one of a kind and I'm sure you and all the employees are proud of the products and warranties you offer. You should be*!
> 
> ...


So, what is it that makes Badlands one of a kind? Is it the products manufactured by kids in southeast Asia? Is it the fact that they offer an unconditional warranty when they only warrant conditions of their liking? Is it because their repairs are "good work" in your opinion? Or, is it that they have flashy ads in the magazines? I'm failing to see what makes Badlands a one-of-a-kind. More like run-of-the-mill in my opinion, at this point. 

The reason that the sense of fairness might be skewed is a product of what Badlands is willing to say versus what they are willing to do. If you research it, you'll see that many times the breaking point between picking Badlands over another brand is Badlands stated warranty. Look at the Badlands warranty and they tell you that it isn't practical to repair all of them to new condition because it involves the equivelent of a pack autopsy in order to make the repairs and that a replacement pack is more likely for those situations. Their warranty page doesn't talk about shoddy patches.

Here's a quote from their warranty page:


> Therefore, if it is a case where the product should be replaced, it will be done promptly and without whining. If it makes more senses under the circumstances to repair it, that will be done. *Either way, we do it on our dime. *


Well, that's about how much they have in the repair; so, I guess they're pretty open about that.


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## 13bonatter69 (Dec 23, 2007)

Binney59 said:


> That response struck me as extremely pompous and unprofessional. If you stand by your products, fix it to look and perform like the original or send out a new one. Period. If you want to take a lesson in customer service, check out lands end. I have a pair of pants that wore on the bottom from me walking on them (my fault) and would have never returned them as it is clearly normal wear and tear. A lands end employee saw those pants and almost wrestled me to the ground in order to send them back to get me a new pair. I still refused and threw the pants away, but the point is, if you make the claim, stand behind it. They even took back a special edition car that they sold decades before. Does it cost them money- no doubt. Do I pay more knowing they stand behind their products- no doubt. I would have assumed badlands was the same, but I am sorely mistaken.
> 
> From lands end
> "The Lands’ End guarantee has always been an unconditional one. It reads: “*If you’re not satisfied with any item, simply return it to us at any time for an exchange or refund of its purchase price.” We mean every word of it. Whatever. Whenever. Always. But to make sure this is perfectly clear, we’ve decided to simplify it further. Guaranteed. Period.®*
> ...



Thanks for the tutorial my man.. I knew nothing about Land End, but now thanks to you, my wife and I will be trying them out. There is NOTHING like good customer service. THANK YOU for shareing...Lands end now has a new customer!!


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## Monarchcx (Apr 2, 2008)

I can't believe I read this entire thing....and I just bought a Superday too. I hope it doesn't rip, tear or fall apart on me. *knocks on wood*


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## slim9300 (Dec 4, 2004)

OMG. I knew I should have responded to this thread a couple days back so I got the updates. I was a little ticked and was thinking that the pack must have just "slipped through the cracks" at Badlands while getting repaired. I figured, someone from the company will find this thread and pass it along to upper management, then this guy will finally get taken care of and my mind (and many others who own Badlands packs) will be at ease. Could I have been more wrong? That had to be the worst business move in the history of a self-proclaimed customer service oriented company. That guy must have had his frustrations about "unexpected" repair costs and wining customers hit the tipping point and he just lost it. What we got was the truth and it was sickening. Seriously. I own two Badlands packs, a 2200 and a Superday. I convinced my best friend and dad to also buy the same two packs a couple years back due to how much I liked the pack and the unbelievable warranty. 

I will make it a point to never buy another Badlands pack and do everything I can to dissuade anyone interested in buying one. You want to know the reason? A couple of unbelievable posts from the president of Badlands that will be forever visible to God and everyone. The OP's issue was upsetting but I passed it off as an oversight. Clearly it was not an oversight.


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## yhudson (Apr 24, 2011)

Bobmuley said:


> Well here is what you said:So, what is it that makes Badlands one of a kind? Is it the products manufactured by kids in southeast Asia? Is it the fact that they offer an unconditional warranty when they only warrant conditions of their liking? Is it because their repairs are "good work" in your opinion? Or, is it that they have flashy ads in the magazines? I'm failing to see what makes Badlands a one-of-a-kind. More like run-of-the-mill in my opinion, at this point.
> 
> The reason that the sense of fairness might be skewed is a product of what Badlands is willing to say versus what they are willing to do. If you research it, you'll see that many times the breaking point between picking Badlands over another brand is Badlands stated warranty. Look at the Badlands warranty and they tell you that it isn't practical to repair all of them to new condition because it involves the equivelent of a pack autopsy in order to make the repairs and that a replacement pack is more likely for those situations. Their warranty page doesn't talk about shoddy patches.
> 
> ...


Whoops... Looks like the "sheep shoe" fits. Since you're talking about their shop I take it you've actually toured their plant. Got an photos from your trip you can share? Or are you just copying a dramatic story you've heard others tell? Please share your first hand knowledge. 

Most sheep aren't capable of original thought. 

I pick my pack by quality features and design preferences. Warranty has never played into the decision.


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## ks_kiwi (Dec 22, 2004)

-bowfreak- said:


> Update on Badlands warranty: We will fix it....as long as it is easy."
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 1117224


OK, I think I ruptured something....
and NorthernMN, yours was a priceless response also.

Sorry to be enjoying the humor here, but sometimes if you don't laugh....


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## Wayahsti (Feb 19, 2011)

from one archery brother to another honestly it sounds like you may have run the bag through the riggers. for 3 things to go wrong on one bag is just kind of far fetched. I've personally been using badlands packs for years and never had a problem. using them while whitetail hunting all the way to using them while at 11000ft sheep hunting and never have had a problem. it sounds like a finger is just needing to be pointed. i think we all need to remember that though we these items are made to use in the outdoors, it doesn't mean that we shouldn't take care of them. the only time a zipper goes bad is usually when a person is putting an immense amount of stress on it. that would go right along with a strap tearing from the pack. common sense tells me that you were trying to fit everything but the kitchen sink into your bag. maybe the best thing you could've done was bought a bigger bag to begin with. by the way how old is this bag?


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## slim9300 (Dec 4, 2004)

Wayahsti said:


> from one archery brother to another honestly it sounds like you may have run the bag through the riggers. for 3 things to go wrong on one bag is just kind of far fetched. I've personally been using badlands packs for years and never had a problem. using them while whitetail hunting all the way to using them while at 11000ft sheep hunting and never have had a problem. it sounds like a finger is just needing to be pointed. i think we all need to remember that though we these items are made to use in the outdoors, it doesn't mean that we shouldn't take care of them. the only time a zipper goes bad is usually when a person is putting an immense amount of stress on it. that would go right along with a strap tearing from the pack. common sense tells me that you were trying to fit everything but the kitchen sink into your bag. maybe the best thing you could've done was bought a bigger bag to begin with. by the way how old is this bag?


You are missing the point.


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## Binney59 (Nov 28, 2008)

*Has anyone considered that the repair was done to accommodate the OP's timeline?*

This is a non-issue in my mind because as soon as you mail something out, with your name on it, you are standing by that repair job and product. Now, if they told him from the beginning that it would take longer than what time he had and that they could only give a half-arse fix and then fix it correctly after the trip that would be another discussion. 



For all the people defending the hack-job repair, I am thinking about starting a new car warranty program. 100% Unconditional Repairs, attached is a sample of my work.


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## slim9300 (Dec 4, 2004)

Binney59 said:


> *Has anyone considered that the repair was done to accommodate the OP's timeline?*
> 
> This is a non-issue in my mind because as soon as you mail something out, with your name on it, you are standing by that repair job and product. Now, if they told him from the beginning that it would take longer than what time he had and that they could only give a half-arse fix and then fix it correctly after the trip that would be another discussion.
> 
> ...


Not to mention, it became a moot point when the president of the company came on here and defended the company 100%.


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## Bobmuley (Jan 14, 2004)

yhudson said:


> Whoops... Looks like the "sheep shoe" fits. Since you're talking about their shop I take it you've actually toured their plant. Got an photos from your trip you can share? Or are you just copying a dramatic story you've heard others tell? Please share your first hand knowledge.
> 
> Most sheep aren't capable of original thought.
> 
> I pick my pack by quality features and design preferences. Warranty has never played into the decision.


It really is the fanboys that shed the most wool. 

You'd be really good at dodgeball. Not once could you defend your statements of the company's awesomness and pride for which you said makes them "one of a kind".


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## Alaska at heart (Aug 25, 2009)

I think we might have a couple "wolves in sheep's clothing" on this thread?? What was the name of that software that keys the pack maker on internet use of their company name.........remember the "big brother" reference???? Suddenly a couple folks show up to toss a stick in the spokes of the thread momentum and divert the focus from stated warranty to us vs. them (B......s vs. Eberlestock) or dumb sheep following the herd??? I've continued to follow this thread because the handling of the warranty is troubling to me, especially so when "dad" shows up to tell all us "kids" that we don't always get a yes answer to our requests. Thanks for that tidbit of folk "wisdom", dad........LOL Maybe it was the infamous "entitlement" reference that broke the camel's back for me, because the supposed entitlement was derived from the vast promise of a warranty that is certainly NOT unconditional. To be so, there can't be conditions placed upon the customer service, such as "our sewing machines can't reach the area without tearing it apart". DOH......tear it apart and fix it right. Isn't that the real issue................the really poor repair??? No wool here, it is much too hot.


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## fatsbucknut (Apr 29, 2005)

hunt1up said:


> Since I mentioned Eberlestock ealier. I own a Badlands, but my latest purchase was an Eberlestock. I reseached them all. I found a used Eberlestock online that had a description that didn't match the pictures. I called Eberlestock and informed them that I was looking at a used pack and that I'd found some issues with the classified ad. They were more than helpful and gave me all the info I needed, so that I could buy a USED pack. They didn't even make any money off me but took the time to properly explain their products to me, in a nice and professional manner. I ended up telling the seller how his ad was incorrect, and later found another used Eberlestock pack to purchase.
> 
> I am not here to preach Eberlestock only. If I had my choice I'd buy all Mystery Ranch stuff, but the wallet doesn't like the idea. I do know for a fact what brand I won't be recommending to my fellow hunters in the future though.



Eberlestock is great until you challenge their "Waterproof" claim. 100% not waterproof is what they are. I had a backpack full of wet clothing several times last year and yet they still stand by the fact that their packs are "Waterproof". I'll never buy another one.


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## law651 (Jul 7, 2005)

I will make it a point to never buy another Badlands pack and do everything I can to dissuade anyone interested in buying one. You want to know the reason? A couple of unbelievable posts from the president of Badlands that will be forever visible to God and everyone. The OP's issue was upsetting but I passed it off as an oversight. Clearly it was not an oversight.[/QUOTE]

You are dead on. For the VP to come on here and defend the company with that repair job, one of the dumbest moves in history. I will never recommend badlands packs again to any of my friends. Their is many great choices in packs these days. And from what I have heard most all stand behind their products even thought they dont brag about a warrantee. I emailed all my hunting friends this thread to read. Most of them will purchase packs in the future, I bet most will not buy badlands!!!


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## JohnnyRazorhead (May 13, 2003)

At this point I think the 1.8% is probably no longer accurate.


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## BigTimber1 (Nov 15, 2009)

Alaska at heart said:


> I've continued to follow this thread because the handling of the warranty is troubling to me, especially so when "dad" shows up to tell all us "kids" that we don't always get a yes answer to our requests. Thanks for that tidbit of folk "wisdom", dad........LOL Maybe it was the infamous "entitlement" reference that broke the camel's back for me, because the supposed entitlement was derived from the vast promise of a warranty that is certainly NOT unconditional. To be so, there can't be conditions placed upon the customer service, such as "our sewing machines can't reach the area without tearing it apart". DOH......tear it apart and fix it right. Isn't that the real issue................the really poor repair???


Yep, seems like the owners has a really deem view of his customers or sportsmen in general.


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## dru333 (Nov 13, 2010)

Badlands just lost my business.... I am looking for a pack and was looking at the Badlands 2200 but not anymore!!! I will be looking elsewhere for a hunting pack.


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## ohiobowhunter20 (Jul 3, 2010)

Can anyone tell me when Badlands unconditional lifetime warranty expires? Is there an age were a crappy repair job is acceptable or would I get the same crappy repair if I wanted to have my year old pack fixed?


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## dwagaman (Nov 7, 2010)

[ QUOTE=Masheen76;1061416116]When you say, my case in point is most of post on here are from people who either get free stuff or they get a deal from the manufacture just to promote there brand. 
in the context of reading comprehension it's safe to conclude I fit into "most people" on this thread. Now if you actually meant "specific" or "certain" people I doubt I would have felt compelled to reference your post. I've not made this "all about me". 

What does it matter where these packs are manufactured? That's a Badlands issue, not a consumer issue. They have an unconditional warranty, and nearly everyone on this thread agrees the repair "attempt" was lame at best,......I.E. unsatisfactory.

*I missed where the OP openly demanded he was campaigning for a brand new replacement. More specifically, he posted an experience on a forum seeking feedback in regards to what others thought/would do if put in the same situation. That is exactly what this forum is designed for.[/QUOTE]*

I'm still amazed people can't read between the lines. Answer this one question.....Why Now???? This happened 10 months ago.....Why Now???? One month before the 2011 season opens and now its an issue? Why wasn't it an issue 10 months ago????? One last time for the slow readers......WHHHHY NOOOOOOW??????? lol No wonder Bill referred to some of you as children. haha I think he hit the mark.....Btw I liked his response, too much entitlement in these younger generations imo.

And for the record I do think the issue with the repair being done on the OP's timeline is relevant if you actually read his post and have an IQ above 60........:smile:


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## rodney482 (Aug 31, 2004)

ohiobowhunter20 said:


> Can anyone tell me when Badlands unconditional lifetime warranty expires? Is there an age were a crappy repair job is acceptable or would I get the same crappy repair if I wanted to have my year old pack fixed?


I am guessing Badlands is really limited to what they can repair..Their packs are made oversees and I assume the repairs are done right here. I would assume the age of the pack would not factor into the repair work.

Just hope you dont have to find out..


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## rodney482 (Aug 31, 2004)

dwagaman said:


> [ QUOTE=Masheen76;1061416116]When you say, my case in point is most of post on here are from people who either get free stuff or they get a deal from the manufacture just to promote there brand.
> in the context of reading comprehension it's safe to conclude I fit into "most people" on this thread. Now if you actually meant "specific" or "certain" people I doubt I would have felt compelled to reference your post. I've not made this "all about me".
> 
> What does it matter where these packs are manufactured? That's a Badlands issue, not a consumer issue. They have an unconditional warranty, and nearly everyone on this thread agrees the repair "attempt" was lame at best,......I.E. unsatisfactory.
> ...




I'm still amazed people can't read between the lines. Answer this one question.....Why Now???? This happened 10 months ago.....Why Now???? One month before the 2011 season opens and now its an issue? Why wasn't it an issue 10 months ago????? One last time for the slow readers......WHHHHY NOOOOOOW??????? lol No wonder Bill referred to some of you as children. haha I think he hit the mark.....Btw I liked his response, too much entitlement in these younger generations imo.

And for the record I do think the issue with the repair being done on the OP's timeline is relevant if you actually read his post and have an IQ above 60........:smile:[/QUOTE]


I think you are missing the point... He wanted to sell the pack and found he couldnt get what a decent used 2200 should bring. the reason it was not bringing it was the awful repair...Had I been the buyer and he told me that badlands made that repair I would have laughed at him.

Like I said, I could care less the motive... I got all the info I needed when I read Badlands post on here.


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## yhudson (Apr 24, 2011)

Bobmuley said:


> It really is the fanboys that shed the most wool.
> 
> You'd be really good at dodgeball. Not once could you defend your statements of the company's awesomness and pride for which you said makes them "one of a kind".


Last time I respond to this thread. The reason for my "one of a kind" comment was simple. I like their 2200 pack. I've done lots of hauling with this pack and it's performed well. The warranty they have is suitable for my purposes. I have several friends and a son that uses and likes their products. The only folks I've heard bad-mouth this company is on this forum. People on this thread have described an outstanding performing pack, and their only gripe is someone's pack wasn't refurbished like a Dooney purse. 

I think I gave $185 for my 2200 several years ago. Pretty good value in my book. If I paid $1000 like my wife pays on purses I'd have a different set of expectations.

As for the company guys defending their position... Why gripe at that?!? Your problem with this is their position didn't agree with yours. Someone wanted a free pack and didn't get one. That's too bad. 

Threatening this company with your purchases is silly. First, most of you weren't buying their packs anyway. Second, the population of folks on these forums is slightly smaller than folks who still hunt with spears AND use Badlands packs. My point is... Your opinions may be interesting, but your influence is not that significant. 

Finally, I've realized arguing with guys on the Internet is like arguing with a taxi driver in Portugal, the chances of understanding each other seems slim.


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## ohiobowhunter20 (Jul 3, 2010)

rodney482 said:


> I am guessing Badlands is really limited to what they can repair..Their packs are made oversees and I assume the repairs are done right here. I would assume the age of the pack would not factor into the repair work.
> 
> Just hope you dont have to find out..


this was more of a hypothetical question since I don't even own one of their packs. What I don't get is people are accusing the op of being to cheap to buy a new one when all it needed was a little qaulity repair work which it obviously didn't get and the head honcho of Badlands saying it was acceptable. How is that an acceptable reair. Job? Just because its 5 years old means a crappy repair is justifiable? Am I missing somthing here?


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## rodney482 (Aug 31, 2004)

yhudson said:


> Last time I respond to this thread. The reason for my "one of a kind" comment was simple. I like their 2200 pack. I've done lots of hauling with this pack and it's performed well. The warranty they have is suitable for my purposes. I have several friends and a son that uses and likes their products. The only folks I've heard bad-mouth this company is on this forum. People on this thread have described an outstanding performing pack, and their only gripe is someone's pack wasn't refurbished like a Dooney purse.
> 
> I think I gave $185 for my 2200 several years ago. Pretty good value in my book. If I paid $1000 like my wife pays on purses I'd have a different set of expectations.
> 
> ...


There might only be 100,000 members here but did you read where Badlands has a program to monitor folks views? Why do they do that? because it is very important from an MFG standpoint (doesnt matter if your a ************* or Cameron Hanes)

I dont recall this being about a free pack. 

This thread is about a repair and a warranty.


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## vf52rcl (Apr 28, 2010)

I myself feel that badland holds true to there warranty to the tee. great company to work with.


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## rodney482 (Aug 31, 2004)

ohiobowhunter20 said:


> this was more of a hypothetical question since I don't even own one of their packs. What I don't get is people are accusing the op of being to cheap to buy a new one when all it needed was a little qaulity repair work which it obviously didn't get and the head honcho of Badlands saying it was acceptable. How is that an acceptable reair. Job? Just because its 5 years old means a crappy repair is justifiable? Am I missing somthing here?


It is my opinion that it is the best job Badlands is capable of doing... Did it hold up? Yes. 

Did it significantly reduce the resale value...yes.

Is it a negative reflection on the company? IMO yes.


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## JustOneMoreShot (Jul 24, 2005)

I always thought that the high price for the foreign made pack was to cover the cost of the "Unconditional Warranty". It is very obvious to me now that the pack is too difficult to repair well and the company makes a deliberate effort to not send out a new pack to protect the Badlands company. They do not live up to the Warranty at all. I have a moose hunt in Alaska this September and need a pack for the trip. This helped narrow the field. You would think that the owner of the company could choose his words better but instead comes on the board and looks to me like a callous nimrod.


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## Masheen76 (Nov 28, 2006)

dwagaman said:


> [ QUOTE=Masheen76;1061416116]When you say, my case in point is most of post on here are from people who either get free stuff or they get a deal from the manufacture just to promote there brand.
> in the context of reading comprehension it's safe to conclude I fit into "most people" on this thread. Now if you actually meant "specific" or "certain" people I doubt I would have felt compelled to reference your post. I've not made this "all about me".
> 
> What does it matter where these packs are manufactured? That's a Badlands issue, not a consumer issue. They have an unconditional warranty, and nearly everyone on this thread agrees the repair "attempt" was lame at best,......I.E. unsatisfactory.
> ...




I'm still amazed people can't read between the lines.
*So now you'll begin to put words into peoples mouths they never spoke. In fact, in the original post the OP even goes so far as to say if Badlands could not deliver his pack repaired in time for his hunt, to "charge my card and send me a new one".*

Answer this one question.....Why Now????
*Let me break it down real slow for you, because you seem to be a little slow on the uptake. The OP is here asking an opinion of members on this forum, which it is designed for. He already dealt with Badlands even after August in regards to this pack and issue, again as stated in his original post.*

This happened 10 months ago.....Why Now????
*Again, real slow like. He didn't wait 10 months to deal with this. He contacted Badlands in August.*

One month before the 2011 season opens and now its an issue?
*Maybe your timeline for public opinion is designated for strictly post-hunting season, not everyone has this timeline. The OP outlines how busy he has been in the original post. For somone flaming people for lack of reading skills, you sure have missed a lot of detail in that original post so far.*

Why wasn't it an issue 10 months ago?????
*For the third time, it was................that's why he sent it to Badlands*

One last time for the slow readers......WHHHHY NOOOOOOW???????
*Still don't get it? I guess I can't help you now.*

lol No wonder Bill referred to some of you as children.
haha I think he hit the mark.....Btw I liked his response, too much entitlement in these younger generations imo.
*It is all too obvious who in this thread is acting with little maturity*

And for the record I do think the issue with the repair being done on the OP's timeline is relevant if you actually read his post and have an IQ above 60........:smile:[/QUOTE]
*It is actually irrelevant, the OP already stated that he had offered to ****PURCHASE**** a brand new replacement if they could not repair his original in time for his hunt.*

*And here I "actually read" the OP's original post, but I have an IQ a bit higher than just above 60.*


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## slim9300 (Dec 4, 2004)

Big deal if his intent was to "harm" Badlands business by making his story known. I don't think it actually was his intent based on his long history here and time owning and using the pack. Not to mention how he worded his posts. But even if deep down he wanted to see Badlands lose some sales over the whole thing because he was mad about getting 50% of the market value for his poorly repaired pack and being treated like crap, I wouldn't blame him. Do you? I would be pissed off too.

There is NO way this guy is some marketing operative from Eberlestock, if that's what you are implying. 

Hell, after reading the condescending BS response from the president of the company, I want to see Badlands lose some sales over this. Maybe then the president will rethink his outlook on his customer. Let me make it clear one more time also, between me, my dad and my hunting partner, we have 6 Badlands packs. We own them and actually like them. I packed two elk out with mine last year. I'm no operative for another company, just taking shots at Badlands. I am a newly converted "hater" thanks to one man's posts. It's kind of amazing actually since I have been a huge supporter since the day I first put on my Superday from Cabelas.


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## dwagaman (Nov 7, 2010)

Masheen76 said:


> [/B]
> 
> I'm still amazed people can't read between the lines.
> *So now you'll begin to put words into peoples mouths they never spoke. In fact, in the original post the OP even goes so far as to say if Badlands could not deliver his pack repaired in time for his hunt, to "charge my card and send me a new one".*
> ...


You actually agreed with me on this point but don't realize it...ha

*It is actually irrelevant, the OP already stated that he had offered to ****PURCHASE**** a brand new replacement if they could not repair his original in time for his hunt.*

They did repair it to a functional level in time. Could it have been better?? You bet......

*And here I "actually read" the OP's original post, but I have an IQ a bit higher than just above 60.*[/QUOTE]

Questionable at best......

Well all I can do is laugh at this. I knew you and people like you could not comprehend my point. I questioned why I even bothered beyond entertaining myself with your response. Which I did, thank you for that. The question was why bring it to the "forum" now? Whether you want to admit it or not the OP used the forum to try to leverage Badlands. Thats been made pretty obvious by his own actions, not my opinion. Bill's response was not what the OP wanted to hear, that was obvious. I agreed with most of what he had to say and he even went as far as laying out the numbers for warranty repairs. I think it was to an amount of almost $400,000 not to mention the new packs they sent out. My guess is most of those customers are pretty happy. Sadly we don't hear from most of them because they are not whining on a forum. As far as threatening Badlands with not making future purchases and telling all your friends etc etc.....Maybe that will work on a limited short term basis because most people are nothing more than Lemmings, mindlessly marching forward to their death with no ability to form independent thoughts. I think we have seen that on this thread and it probably answers the question, How the heck did Obama become President?..:smile: As for me, I won't base my opinion of a company on what one person, who I don't even know, has to say about them on a forum thread.


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## AUSSIEDUDE (Apr 17, 2009)

Have Badlands changed the wording on their warranty? I have just read through the warranty section on their website and I can see nowhere that it says they will repair to original condition or replace the pack. It does say they will repair your pack for free no matter how it was damaged which is an exceptional warranty. They also say they will replace your pack with a new one if they think it is justified. Obviously it is impossible to repair a well worn pack to its original condition as the entire pack would show signs of wear so is it really justified to expect it to be replaced with a new one? I think if it is obvious that the pack has been very well used over a long period of time then a repair to keep it usable is all that should be expected.


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## rodney482 (Aug 31, 2004)

dwagaman said:


> You actually agreed with me on this point but don't realize it...ha
> 
> *It is actually irrelevant, the OP already stated that he had offered to ****PURCHASE**** a brand new replacement if they could not repair his original in time for his hunt.*
> 
> ...


Questionable at best......

Well all I can do is laugh at this. I knew you and people like you could not comprehend my point. I questioned why I even bothered beyond entertaining myself with your response. Which I did, thank you for that. The question was why bring it to the "forum" now? Whether you want to admit it or not the OP used the forum to try to leverage Badlands. Thats been made pretty obvious by his own actions, not my opinion. Bill's response was not what the OP wanted to hear, that was obvious. I agreed with most of what he had to say and he even went as far as laying out the numbers for warranty repairs. I think it was to an amount of almost $400,000 not to mention the new packs they sent out. My guess is most of those customers are pretty happy. Sadly we don't hear from most of them because they are not whining on a forum. As far as threatening Badlands with not making future purchases and telling all your friends etc etc.....Maybe that will work on a limited short term basis because most people are nothing more than Lemmings, mindlessly marching forward to their death with no ability to form independent thoughts. I think we have seen that on this thread and it probably answers the question, How the heck did Obama become President?..:smile: As for me, I won't base my opinion of a company on what one person, who I don't even know, has to say about them on a forum thread.[/QUOTE]


I based my opinion solely on the response from Badlands . I would say 95% of the people who have read this thread were disappointed in Badlands response.

It would be like sending your bow back to Elite (who has the best warranty in the bow business) for a splintered limb and they return it with duct tape wrapped around it...Will it shoot just fine? Yes. Would you want your bow fixed like that?


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## Bobmuley (Jan 14, 2004)

yhudson said:


> ...As for the company guys defending their position... Why gripe at that?!? *Your problem with this is their position didn't agree with yours. *Someone wanted a free pack and didn't get one. That's too bad. .


I know you probably won't see this, but this is where you are wrong. The company guy's response doesn't match HIS written position. That is the gripe.

I'm not a fanboy of any pack company which leaves me free to pick and choose the ones that work best for me which includes sending back packs that don't cut the mustard to other companies. I've always been taken care of very well by them. It's the actions that speak much louder than their words.


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## Masheen76 (Nov 28, 2006)

dwagaman said:


> You actually agreed with me on this point but don't realize it...ha
> _No I haven't, the timeline is IRRELEVANT. The OP is on this forum for opinion over customer service only. Keep on trying to put your own spin on it anyhow you want._
> 
> *It is actually irrelevant, the OP already stated that he had offered to ****PURCHASE**** a brand new replacement if they could not repair his original in time for his hunt.*
> ...


Questionable at best......

Well all I can do is laugh at this. I knew you and people like you could not comprehend my point.
_Because you talk is circles and dodge blatant facts at ever post. Your point is you think this person is on here bullying Badlands for a free pack. And now everyone else gets a good laugh at you, because this person has never once claimed to want any such thing, simply a proper repair. If anything, you're the one that has perpetuated this "conspiracy theory" to the point of ridiculousness._

I questioned why I even bothered beyond entertaining myself with your response. Which I did, thank you for that. The question was why bring it to the "forum" now? 
_It's been explained to you dozens of times, for public opinion. In fact the suggestion of getting in contact with the company again for further resolution was a suggest of a few other posters._

Whether you want to admit it or not the OP used the forum to try to leverage Badlands. 
_Nothing more than baseless speculation, there is nothing factual in the least to this statement
_
Thats been made pretty obvious by his own actions, not my opinion.
_NO sir,...that is ONLY your opinion and nothing more._

Bill's response was not what the OP wanted to hear, that was obvious. I agreed with most of what he had to say and he even went as far as laying out the numbers for warranty repairs. I think it was to an amount of almost $400,000 not to mention the new packs they sent out. My guess is most of those customers are pretty happy. Sadly we don't hear from most of them because they are not whining on a forum. As far as threatening Badlands with not making future purchases and telling all your friends etc etc.....Maybe that will work on a limited short term basis because most people are nothing more than Lemmings, mindlessly marching forward to their death with no ability to form independent thoughts. I think we have seen that on this thread and it probably answers the question, How the heck did Obama become President?..:smile: As for me, I won't base my opinion of a company on what one person, who I don't even know, has to say about them on a forum thread.[/QUOTE]
_The rest of this rhetoric is complete nonesense and not worthy of conversation. You just keep on giving opinion/speculation on what you "think" somone you don't even know intentions are/were. And I'll keep breaking it down and showing you what really happened. Cheers!_


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## Masheen76 (Nov 28, 2006)

*As for me, I won't base my opinion of a company on what one person, who I don't even know, has to say about them on a forum thread.[/QUOTE]
*

And as for me, I'll base my opinion of a company by what they choose to say in regards to their customers and the service that they may or may not decide to provide,......on a forum thread.:wink:


Oops, there was one thing I guess I wanted address in that final rant you had there. :darkbeer:


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## dwagaman (Nov 7, 2010)

rodney482 said:


> Questionable at best......
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I agree it should have been fixed with a more professional looking end result. I personally do not know what is required to repair the OP's pack or how long it would take. What I do know is, they got a functional pack back to him before his hunt. Perhaps pulling the pack apart would have taken too long. I really don't know.


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## dwagaman (Nov 7, 2010)

Masheen76 said:


> *As for me, I won't base my opinion of a company on what one person, who I don't even know, has to say about them on a forum thread.*


*
*

And as for me, I'll base my opinion of a company by what they choose to say in regards to their customers and the service that they may or may not decide to provide,......on a forum thread.:wink:


Oops, there was one thing I guess I wanted address in that final rant you had there. :darkbeer:[/QUOTE]

Lol I expected you to say "whatever" but I guess thats close enough........

Actually you are basing your opinion on one persons negative experience and your interpretion of what happened based on limited information at best.

Badlands has been around for 18 years and during that time has built a solid reputation for quality packs and customer service. Are the 1000's of satisfied customers wrong?? Have they all been deceived into thinking they got good customer service and a quality product? This just proves the old saying that, "One screw up erases a thousand congrats" or " no good deed goes unpunished"


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## elecshoc (Dec 7, 2006)

Wow, just read through all 8 pages of this thread and was amazed at the direction this went to.

First of all I have a 2200 that I've used for the past two years and it's haven't let me down yet. It's the best pack I've owned to date. One day I may have to use the warranty, but so far I've been fortunate as not to needing it.

As for what happened to the OP, it seems to me that he received a fully functional pack as described by himself in time for his hunt. Well the repair may not have been pretty, but it was repaired. The way I look at this from the point of view that he bought a pack what 5 or 6 years ago with a warranty that states the company will get the pack functional for the field. 

Another point as to the op, even with a pack he bought 5 year ago he's paid 44 bucks for that pack per year. Now he wanted 100 bucks for a 5 year old pack, that seems like a reach. 

I do now have reservations regarding the response from Badlands. From a CS stand point it fell way short of my expectations of a company that prides itself of being a leader in that category. Coming from a company that lives on customer service, I gotta say I was left feeling uneasy about Badlands as a whole.

For now I have the pack and will use it, if I have to contact Badlands for any repairs I'm just gonna have to wait and see how that turns out.


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## Cue772 (Mar 3, 2011)

You are not paying $200+ for a pack made in Vietnam because of the warranty.. you are paying for their marketing. 
I believe the company lived up to their warranty.. they fixed it, it works.. asked no questions. Period. The pack has been used since. Bringing up "resale" value is a freaking joke .. something one would only single out as a talking point on this site. The resale value of a 5 year old pack???.. buy the pack and use it forever. They will keep repairing it. 

As for the response from the company.. it was spot on, but the presentation did not reflect a company founder who is in touch with the customer base here. He projected a very defensive/angry stance in his response. He was out of line because you have to sugar coat, put on a dress and blow kisses to many of these gimps to blow over hurt feelings. Personally.. an apology for the situation, explanation of the company's stance, offer to discuss with the OP further offline, and appreciation to those who are not jumping ship would have been a better response. 

Bottom line...they warrant their product unconditionally and fixed the problem from a functional standpoint as stated. Was it ugly? Yes....get back with them and work it out like adults do. Why ask a bunch of people you do not know and who's values you cannot validate to tell you that you are reacting the right way? And to all you puppets ignorantly jumping on the Eberlestock parade expecting perfect CS...their customer service is NOT 100%. I know this first hand...however overall theirs is a great company to work with. So is Badlands. Quit yer cryin.


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## msubu21 (Oct 25, 2005)

OP was told when first contacted warranty dept. That straps would be fixed like new and zippers replaced. This did not happen as he was told. Also, you have to send them a check for $12 to cover shipping. Pretty sure a repair of this caliber could be made at home for less than $12 .


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## hunt1up (Sep 4, 2009)

From their website, AGAIN:

First of all, let us offer you and your family our condolences and also reassure you that your beloved pack is in the best of hands. Whether or not you realized it at the time, when you purchased your gear From Badlands, you not only bought the finest equipment available, you bought a *lifetime* of worry free ownership thanks to our now world famous *unconditional* lifetime warranty.

How is this not sinking people! They need to change it to say something like LIMITED or CONDITIONAL lifetime warranty.


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## yhudson (Apr 24, 2011)

Masheen76 said:


> [/B]
> 
> I'm still amazed people can't read between the lines.
> *So now you'll begin to put words into peoples mouths they never spoke. In fact, in the original post the OP even goes so far as to say if Badlands could not deliver his pack repaired in time for his hunt, to "charge my card and send me a new one".*
> ...


 
I lied. Had to respond to your post. I think you're absolutely correct. I also think that who don't understand your point are probably "choosing" to not understand. It doesn't work with what they want to believe.


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## mx482 (Nov 4, 2003)

hunt1up said:


> From their website, AGAIN:
> 
> First of all, let us offer you and your family our condolences and also reassure you that your beloved pack is in the best of hands. Whether or not you realized it at the time, when you purchased your gear From Badlands, you not only bought the finest equipment available, you bought a *lifetime* of worry free ownership thanks to our now world famous *unconditional* lifetime warranty.
> 
> How is this not sinking people! They need to change it to say something like LIMITED or CONDITIONAL lifetime warranty.


Agree. How is this even arguable?


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## Bobmuley (Jan 14, 2004)

dwagaman said:


> [ QUOTE=Masheen76;1061416116]...WHHHHY NOOOOOOW???????


Because there is no time limit on "lifetime unconditional".


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## Masheen76 (Nov 28, 2006)

Yhudson,Dwagaman and others it's all good. Everyone has their take on the situation, and are completely entitled to their opinion. Maybe we can agree to disagree and I don't want to bicker (for lack of a better term) about it anymore.

And for the record, in my original post on this thread (#38) I clearly stated that while I was worried about this particular situation I would reserve judgement until there was a response to the OP from Badlands. I also stated I am a Badlands owner and have been completely happy with the product I have. I wasn't looking for a sugar coated, flowery happy ending. Just a decent customer service resolution to the situation for the OP and maybe my own piece of mind I guess. The response and tone from Badlands is what has me taken aback.

I will not be telling people "Don't buy Badlands gear", they can make their own choices, as I have made mine. Which is to move on to some other manufacturer, and that is the right of every consumer. I'm happy that there are plenty of great options.

I think I'll check out once and for all on this thread. Peace........


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## elecshoc (Dec 7, 2006)

hunt1up said:


> From their website, AGAIN:
> 
> First of all, let us offer you and your family our condolences and also reassure you that your beloved pack is in the best of hands. Whether or not you realized it at the time, when you purchased your gear From Badlands, you not only bought the finest equipment available, you bought a *lifetime* of worry free ownership thanks to our now world famous *unconditional* lifetime warranty.
> 
> How is this not sinking people! They need to change it to say something like LIMITED or CONDITIONAL lifetime warranty.


I think the company did what they advertised, it is a shoddy repair but it is as outlined in the what you quoted in from their site.

The warranty states that Badlands will repair their products to a field ready condition, this is what was done and the guy used his pack after. Does he have a gripe with the way the repairs where done, sure. Does Badlands owe him anything more than what they've done? Not as far as what I've seen from their site or from the response from the company. They repaired the pack and sent it back too him. 

They did exactly what was stated in they would do, how they did it is the issue here. The repair is shoddy.


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## pronghorn (Jul 16, 2003)

Wow! I am surprised by this thread! I personally own two Badlands packs and have owned three other pack of theirs in the past. I have dealt with their warranty department one time in seven years of using their products. I had a Terra Glide rolling duffel bag from Badlands. I made a trip to Beijing, China with it. The bag made it there with no problems, it was severely overloaded going over as I was stocking our company apartment. On the way back, I received my bag in San Fransisco to take it through Customs. The bag was in perfect condition at that time. When I got to Denver, my bad looked like it bad been drug behind the plane! It was shredded! It was obviously abuse from the baggage handlers. I hesiitated to even call Badlands as it was clearly not their fault. I called Badlands and was blown away when they said "Send it back we will take care of it". My travels actually took me to Saly Lake City a few weeks later so I took it with me and went to Badlands. I met with Isaac and he could not have been more helpful. He was very apologetic about my experience and offered to replace the pack or let me re-select from their line. I chose to get another 2800. That was three years ago. That 2800. like my older 2800 has performed perfectly for me! I have hauled out all or part of 8 mule deer and two elk with the 2800 and it looks like new!

I should mention that Isaac did give me a free water bladder so my opinions are obviously skewed by the $30 gift....

As for them being made in Vietnam and still selling for $200. That is kind of a silly statement! I was just in Vietnam last week touring several factories that make furniture for the company that I work for. They still pay full price for materials, they do have an advantage in labor prices, but they also offset some of that cost with high shipping prices. As for child labor in Asian factories...I have actually been in over a dozen factories in China and Vietnam and have NEVER seen a child in those factories. That kind of uneducated statement pisses me off! I assure you that Badlands, just like any other company that manufacters over seas has a QC team that assures that thier standards are met. 

The OP stated that he has hauled a tremendous amount of game out of the mountains with his 5 plus year old 2200. That seems like he has more than gotten his monies worth out of the pack. 

By the way, the EU has determined that the "lifetime" of most products is around seven years. I have a 2800 that is working on its second "lifetime".


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## The Phantom (Aug 13, 2007)

And you waited a year to post this because...?


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## Marvin (Feb 17, 2005)

And we wonder how oj and Casey Anthony got off huh?


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## MNmike (Dec 27, 2003)

Are we living by EU terms in the US?

What does it matter what is packed into the pack? A quality pack should be able to handle any weight that you can pack in there.

The written warrenty is what it is. Stand behind it.

If it was repaired fully, why weren't the zippers?

The poster for the company VP or owner, sure has a poor understanding of CS and what the company warrenty implies.

I sent wool clothing back for repairs (I was willing to pay for). They are 10 years old. They fixed for free. That is CS and standing behind written warrenty.


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## archery4life (May 14, 2003)

There are three reasons I was upset about this repair.

First and foremost I initially spoke to Bill before sending my pack in. He specifically told me they would tear apart the seams, replace the entire length of strap and repair it like it was before it broke.

Second, He told me he they would replace ALL zippers. They replaced none.

Third the shipping situation and the letter enclosed, but that just added more salt to the wound. 

Had Bill been upfront with me initially and told me they wouldn't be able to repair it like new then I would have understood. Had he said they'll see what they could do instead of promising to fix it like new the. I'd be understanding.

Their posted warranty and my interpretation of the lifetime unconditional warranty was the reason I called them and had higher expectations for my 2200 and my experience. This thread and Bills response was just waiting to happen. It's unfortunate I am the one who set it off. Reading the other posts on here with similar experiences and sub-par repairs, it could have been any one of these members that set this off if they would have started a thread like this with their repair pictures. I just wish I wasn't the one to stir the pot, but I guess I'm resposnsible now.

I'll try to post more details later when I can get to my computer at home (on my phone now) and answer more of the why now questions and try to prove I wasnt just after them losing business and begging for a free pack.

For now I guess feel free to blast away at me for having higher expectations based on what Bill told me and my interpretion of their warranty.


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## WYelkhunter (Mar 26, 2006)

archery4life said:


> There are three reasons I was upset about this repair.
> 
> First and foremost I initially spoke to Bill before sending my pack in. He specifically told me they would tear apart the seams, replace the entire length of strap and repair it like it was before it broke.
> 
> ...



exactly,,, say one thing knowing it probably isn't possible then do another without any contact to the customer, come on this forum and act like you did nothing wrong and actually insult potential customers then wander why people are upset.


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## Cue772 (Mar 3, 2011)

pronghorn said:


> Wow! I am surprised by this thread! I personally own two Badlands packs and have owned three other pack of theirs in the past. I have dealt with their warranty department one time in seven years of using their products. I had a Terra Glide rolling duffel bag from Badlands. I made a trip to Beijing, China with it. The bag made it there with no problems, it was severely overloaded going over as I was stocking our company apartment. On the way back, I received my bag in San Fransisco to take it through Customs. The bag was in perfect condition at that time. When I got to Denver, my bad looked like it bad been drug behind the plane! It was shredded! It was obviously abuse from the baggage handlers. I hesiitated to even call Badlands as it was clearly not their fault. I called Badlands and was blown away when they said "Send it back we will take care of it". My travels actually took me to Saly Lake City a few weeks later so I took it with me and went to Badlands. I met with Isaac and he could not have been more helpful. He was very apologetic about my experience and offered to replace the pack or let me re-select from their line. I chose to get another 2800. That was three years ago. That 2800. like my older 2800 has performed perfectly for me! I have hauled out all or part of 8 mule deer and two elk with the 2800 and it looks like new!
> 
> I should mention that Isaac did give me a free water bladder so my opinions are obviously skewed by the $30 gift....
> 
> ...


Seems to me that the majority of Badlands owners who used the warranty received the level of servie you did. 
This thread is about an instance where someone did not.. and the repair look bad to me. It looks like they thought "the pack is years old..lets just get it working." 

I still feel the company stood by the warranty.. they fixed it and will evidently fix it again if need be regardless of the situation. The pack is functional. That is an unconditional lifetime warranty. 
The service is definately in question here and the company owner did no good with his response on AT (which I am a bit puzzled by). However...Badlands historically has a great reputation and you dont get that with numbers of unhappy customers. 

As far as being made in Vietnam.. my question would then be if its simply some labor costs...why dont they just make them here? Much more going on there and the cost is significant... so $200 is an inflated cost for the actual pack. You throw in mass marketing, warranty, labor here in the U.S sales..etc and thats why it costs what it does. If people are paying simply for the warranty..they will probably not feel like their money was well spent unless they get a new pack with every issue. I would bet a large number of people buy these packs because they are everywhere you look. The U.S has perfected marketing in every way shape or form. Quality has to back up the pitch though or a company goes belly up. IMO.. Badlands does a good job of backing it up.


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## dbowling (Jan 14, 2004)

dumbest post out of the whole thread...


newguy1980 said:


> Hello everyone long time reader 1st time post for me, please forgive any gramer or spelling i only went to public school. NOW i think there is something here we are not seeing and i will post my thoughts on this. But 1st nnelzon23 & everyone else who is going to tell there friends not to buy well I have 3 brothers 2 brother in laws and over 5,000 facebook friends (3499 are pending) but i can play this game as well and i am going to tell everyone i know not to buy Martin Onza 3 65#, QAD, G5, EP, Doinker, Easton because you shoot them so i will no be sporting them because you do.....yea i can play that game as well.......I just love late nights a cold drink and active forum.


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## dbowling (Jan 14, 2004)

believe you maybe correct on that. t


Deadfall said:


> Is it possible that newguy1980 is Bill Crawley?


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## dwagaman (Nov 7, 2010)

MNmike said:


> What does it matter what is packed into the pack? A quality pack should be able to handle any weight that you can pack in there.


Seriously this is just plain silly. Any product has its limitations. If I wanted to I'm sure I could damage a new pack on the first day. That says nothing about the quality of the product. This pack was 5 years old and according to the OP had been used hard and carried heavy loads. Talking about resale value on a 5 year old pack that cost $160.00 is equally as silly.

Having a unconditional warranty does not mean you shouldn't take care of the pack and not abuse it. I'm not suggesting the OP did but there are some on here that act like a pack should be bomb proof and handle anything you do to it. Be realistic, zippers and threads break sometimes......


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## Matt Musto (May 12, 2008)

I don't know if this was mentioned before but I would print this entire post out on paper and send it to the company, expressing your desires. You might be surprised to see the action they take due to bad publicity on this site. I did this for a Moultrie camera and received a brand new camera with the same problems as the old one...but that's a different story.


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## hunt1up (Sep 4, 2009)

Matt Musto said:


> I don't know if this was mentioned before but I would print this entire post out on paper and send it to the company, expressing your desires. You might be surprised to see the action they take due to bad publicity on this site. I did this for a Moultrie camera and received a brand new camera with the same problems as the old one...but that's a different story.


That would be all fine and dandy, except the OWNER of Badlands responded in this thread already, and in a not so great fashion.


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## MNmike (Dec 27, 2003)

dwagaman said:


> Seriously this is just plain silly. Any product has its limitations. If I wanted to I'm sure I could damage a new pack on the first day. That says nothing about the quality of the product. This pack was 5 years old and according to the OP had been used hard and carried heavy loads. Talking about resale value on a 5 year old pack that cost $160.00 is equally as silly.
> 
> Having a unconditional warranty does not mean you shouldn't take care of the pack and not abuse it. I'm not suggesting the OP did but there are some on here that act like a pack should be bomb proof and handle anything you do to it. Be realistic, zippers and threads break sometimes......


Your kidding right?

You think you should not pack your pack? Utilize it's given specifications on "space"?

I could pack a kids back pack full of books and have it last Jr and Sr high school and not fall apart and they cost what? $20 

What is it you don't expect from a lifetime warrenty? 

And what items can and can't be valid of that type IYM?


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## MNmike (Dec 27, 2003)

I guess maybe the warrenty should state void if used in deep wilderness treks.


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## Bobmuley (Jan 14, 2004)

dwagaman said:


> Seriously this is just plain silly. Any product has its limitations. If I wanted to I'm sure I could damage a new pack on the first day. That says nothing about the quality of the product. This pack was 5 years old and according to the OP had been used hard and carried heavy loads. Talking about resale value on a 5 year old pack that cost $160.00 is equally as silly.





> "We will repair your pack for free, forever, no matter whose fault it is, no questions asked"


I do agree on the resale value though.


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## mcharles (Nov 11, 2009)

pronghorn said:


> By the way, the EU has determined that the "lifetime" of most products is around seven years. I have a 2800 that is working on its second "lifetime".


Nice of them to determine that

One more reason that I'm proud to be living in the USA


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## hawgdawg (Sep 8, 2002)

dwagaman said:


> Seriously this is just plain silly. Any product has its limitations. If I wanted to I'm sure I could damage a new pack on the first day. That says nothing about the quality of the product. This pack was 5 years old and according to the OP had been used hard and carried heavy loads. Talking about resale value on a 5 year old pack that cost $160.00 is equally as silly.
> 
> Having a unconditional warranty does not mean you shouldn't take care of the pack and not abuse it. I'm not suggesting the OP did but there are some on here that act like a pack should be bomb proof and handle anything you do to it. Be realistic, zippers and threads break sometimes......


Realistically you are correct, zippers and threads break sometimes. But you should be realistic also. If the warranty says they will repair the pack then do it.


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## a3dhunter (Dec 27, 2005)

After reading the first 3 responses from Bill Crawley I will say that I will never buy another Badlands product.

I recently tried to contact Badlands customer service about an issue with one of their packs, I was told that there was nobody available on a Thursday afternoon at 1:30pm to talk to about the pack in question. I was then told I could "try" calling back some other time if I wanted to.

I have since sold the pack due to a "lack" of customer service.



note:
If anybody is interested in the problems I encountered, feel free to pm me since I won't be back on this thread anytime soon.


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## Wayahsti (Feb 19, 2011)

this thread has turned into a sewing session on how hard we can bash a company. because a guy reads one negative thread on a product, he should then make his decision on whether or not he should by the product? WQW! i think their products are great. in my opinion Badlands did stand up to there warranty. we don't know what this guy was trying to carry in that bag. like i said before, how coincidental could it be for three things to go wrong with one bag? i have "4" of their bags and not one problem from any of them. Remember, it's always easiest to point the finger towards someone else. all that i've read was that he was on a hunt with this bag. what were you using the bag to carry


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## dwagaman (Nov 7, 2010)

hawgdawg said:


> Realistically you are correct, zippers and threads break sometimes. But you should be realistic also. If the warranty says they will repair the pack then do it.


I never said the pack shouldn't be repaired. What I responded to was the comment that a quality pack should be able to handle "any weight" you pack in it. Thats just plain ridiculous.....All packs have their limitations as far as weight and volume for that matter. If I take a pack that is designed to carry 50 lbs and fill it with concrete blocks that weigh 150 lbs, it probably won't last long. Just because a pack has a lifetime warranty doesn't mean you should do things with it that clearly exceed it limitations.....


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## drkangel11683 (Jun 5, 2008)

I can't believe I read all of this, but since I did here is my opinion.

The good: The pack was repaired, was repaired on time, the repair is still holding

The bad: At the very least there was some major miscommunication as per the type of repair that would be made. Sounds like the OP thought it would be repaired to its original condition...who knows what Badlands thought.

The very bad: Badlands owner raised a good point about not being able to please everyone, but also came across as condescending and not caring. Could have been handled much better, and had a much better outcome for the company.

Hey, just my opinions. Figured if I wasted all of my time reading this I might as well waste some more time and respond.


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## arkiep&yhunter (Jul 29, 2006)

WOW...Im literally tired from reading all of this. But I do thank all of you because it was both informative as well as entertaining. I agree with a few points made. I will also say my stance on the whole thing is simple. Badlands probably needs to change their wording on the warranty. Too many people will take that for what it actually says. That u will fix it NO MATTER WHAT. 
I also think the pack was fixed and it was received before his hunt. It just wasnt fixed to his and a lot of other people's standards. Not sure if that was really the CEO...cant believe he would stoop that low as to get into a word war on an internet forum but who knows. If it was him....NOT SMART in my opinion. Kinda of like arguing with my ex wife.....I will NEVER change her mind no matter what evidence I throw at her. 
Lastly...This is the part that made me entertained....I personally can not believe people can get so worked up on something they bought 6 years ago and paid under $200 when they obviously can still use it after it was fixed for free. That comes out to just under 10 cents a day. wow
Kinda got ur moneys worth on it. Im not getting all hot and bothered over a $200 investment making it that long under the scrutiny of hunting conditions. But then again thats me. I have a badlands pack that lasted me several years. Think Im gonna buy another one here in the next month. Time for a new one. But all my opinions aside.....I still think they need to change the wording on that warranty.


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## hunt365 (Feb 15, 2011)

I dont care if that pack was 10 years old, they should have repaiered it properly instead of doing a reapair anyone could do. I was in the market for a pack, in fact I was going to order a badlands 2200, but after reading the reply from the president of the company, I ordered a pack but it sure as heck wasnt a badlands, and never will I order one.


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## dwagaman (Nov 7, 2010)

hunt365 said:


> I dont care if that pack was 10 years old, they should have repaiered it properly instead of doing a reapair anyone could do. I was in the market for a pack, in fact I was going to order a badlands 2200, but after reading the reply from the president of the company, I ordered a pack but it sure as heck wasnt a badlands, and never will I order one.


/yawn


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## hunt365 (Feb 15, 2011)

dwagaman said:


> /yawn


Do you think that reapair was satisfactory, Do you agree with the post from the president of badlands. I get it you must be on there pay roll.


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## hunt365 (Feb 15, 2011)

look at this. http://www.bowhunterssuperstore.com/-p-1862507.html


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## paulizzy (May 10, 2009)

get over it already


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## scrapejuice (Dec 1, 2003)

rodney482 said:


> Just think of how this would have gone had the President of the company came on and said...We dropped the ball, let me ship
> you out a new pack..and keep the old one as well.


EXACTLY!!!!!!

I have a Superday pack I sent back and they repaired. It had stitching tore loose down where the waist pockets meet the main compartment. and the hanging tab on the top. No zipper repairs at the time. It came back functional, not as "pretty", as when I bought it. But very functional nonetheless. I'll admit, I was expecting something, well, a little better looking. Not that crazy yellow thread. Nothing else on the entire pack is yellow, wasn't there any brown or black laying around? Just asking. Anyway, I suppose I was pretty satisfied with the repair. Had NO intention of receiving a new pack, but believe with the $20 of combined shipping, I could have gotten a better job. Maybe not. With all that said, I would probably still bought another Badlands pack when I was on the market for another pack. HOWEVER, I've got to be honest. After reading this thread and the owners response. I'm sure I will atleast be looking hard at some other brands.


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## MNmike (Dec 27, 2003)

Got it!


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## law651 (Jul 7, 2005)

THis is a very interesting post, With hunting season approaching lets bring this back to the top.


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## indiana redneck (Feb 26, 2006)

*I have bought a few Badlands packs over the years & paid good money for them. Well i wont spend a dime on one now because of the unprofessional comment from the owner "Bill Crawley",im all about customer service when i buy a product. I also bought my packs because of the warranty & would expect them to repair my pack as it looked before,not get it back & it look like a 5 year old sewed it with his feet. Badlands you failed!!!*


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## Santa Closs (Dec 29, 2010)

I'm glad I took the time to read all of these. This thread just sold me on Badlands. I'm in the market for a new pack and had a few manufacturers in mind. I plan on buying a Badlands Monster this weekend. Thanks all!


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## Boludo (Feb 18, 2003)

Hmmm. Interesting.

Let me say I'm a local and I've owned quite a few badlands packs. I've never had a problem with any of them. I ended up moving on to other packs I liked better in many cases, but I still own and use the 4500 and the superday and I'm pleased with what they are. 

I have, however, heard more and more complaints about badlands packs not holding up to abuse. Lots and lots of broken zippers. Badlands has usually fixed the problems without complaint and quickly. 

Here's my opinion on the thing. If you pay a premium price for a product, you expect a premium warranty and premium service. I shop and use the brands I do because of this. I buy clothes from Nordstrom because I know they'll take care of me if I have a problem. I use swarovski optics because they take care of me and have gone above and beyond many times. I shop at costco whenever I can because of their CS. Patagonia has replaced 3 pair of waders for me due to leaks, no questions asked, on their dime. I LOVE good warranties. There is a peace of mind that comes in knowing that you have a great product and the company stands behind it. Yes, I know I'm paying more for that product initially, but it's worth it to me.

I destroyed a pair of the new swarovski swarovision binoculars just days after getting them. It was completely my fault. I had a new pair in my hands days later with no cost to me. Unbelievable. Since that time, I've bought another pair of swaro binos and a swaro spotting scope. They have a customer for life in me. That gesture of good will has already paid for itself.

I've had several top end fly rods break from a couple of different companies. In each case, a new rod was overnighted to me at no charge. They didn't say, "well, we don't want customers breaking their rods on purpose and looking for an upgrade...so send it back and we'll see what we can do." They said, "what's your address? Your new one is inbound. Send the old broken one back."

Badlands has made a reputation on it's warranty. When I read it, I expect the same level of service. They need to stand up and make it better or back off of the claims. Charge a few bucks more for the pack in the first place. We'll pay it. If that extra money will go toward superior customer service instead of pretty good customer service, it's worth it. I know margins are slim and overhead is high - but if the product matches the price, we'll pay it.


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## goathollow (Jun 18, 2008)

AGPank said:


> I understand your frustration, but from the picture I can't really tell where it was damaged. How long did you have this pack? Why did this complaint come about now when this happened last fall?
> 
> My view on lifetime warranties is that they are for the lifetime of the product, not my lifetime. If I buy a hunting pack and use it once a year, it should last a long time (more than 10 seasons). If I used it once a month then maybe less. I don't see how a pack could last forever, so really only you can be a judge of that. The Badlands website does say that the warranty is not intended to be an upgrade program. It seems now that you are frustrated that the zippers broke and that you can't get a $100 resale on a very well used $200 new pack.
> 
> How did the repair hold up during your last elk hunt? If the zippers broke, call them up and talk to them again to see if they will fix it for the next hunt. If you just want a new pack, drop the price and sell it to someone else who will have to send it in and test out their warranty.


When I first began reading this thread I was starting to be on the "how dare they" bandwagon. After reading their warranty language and the letter you posted I think I am starting to be in agreement with AGPank. 
Likewise, I am not sure I would ever let a back pack get me as out of sorts as the OP seems to be. Insult my wife, kick my dog, beat down my Mathews :wink: and I'll have a short fuse but I can't imagine stressing for two weeks over a back pack.


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## dsking (Aug 8, 2008)

I don't know.......The letter they sent guarantees the repair as structurally sound. You said yourself that the pack was loaded very heavy, and that you have used it many times to pack elk deer, stands, blinds, etc... How old is the pack? How many seasons or hunts or pack trips did you get out of the pack? 1 or 2? then they should replace the pack if they can't fix it.....but if it is heavy use for a long time, then weigh how much you paid vs. how much good use you got from the pack.......It sounds like their handling of the customer service situation was clumsy at best. Finally, no way I would get that stressed about the pack. Get a new one for your hunt so you don't have to worry about it, and let the issue with Badlands play out without the deadline of your impending Elk hunt. If there packs are good, no way this story makes me not buy their product. But, if you are saying the quality of the packs are bad, then I would be more leary of purchasing from them.


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## ORsouthpaw (Jan 2, 2003)

I just bought a used 2200 this year and love it. I hope something goes wrong with so I can send it in. I can guarantee that if they try some half arsed repair like that they will be getting photos emailed to every hunting magazine editor and public forum I can find. If they don't want to warranty a product for life then they shouldn't use that as their primary selling point.

My Crooked Horn Outfitters pack which I also bought was replaced with no questions asked. If they would have had a pack comparable to the 2200 I would have never considered another brand.


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## dru333 (Nov 13, 2010)

After reading this thread I decided to go with a different pack company over badlands... Lost my money!


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## Joe*Friday (Dec 26, 2009)

bl00dtrail said:


> I had some zippers snap off on a whitetail hybrid pack one one of its very first uses.... they're junk IMO
> 
> I bought a hornhunter pack and won't look back. great pack, same warranty and MADE IN USA


I am looking at the Hornhunter Droptine Deluxe fanny pack a lot harder now....was looking at the badlands monster. Good thread. I have had an Badlands ultra day for 2 1/2 years and an Eberlestock for 3. Only problem I notice is on the ultra-day were sometimes the side pockets on the wasit belt tend to unzip about halfway for some reason. Not sure if it is catching on something or not. I have had this happen several times and not neccesarily in real thick woods...so that make me wonder.


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## TuffBuc (Aug 21, 2009)

Yeah no more Badlands for me. I have the 4500 and 2800. 4500 needs some repairs on it, but I will just take it to the local sew shop here and have them do it. Hopefully they last me for a while.
Mr. Badlands was way to arrogant for my liking!!


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## WHAC Hunter (Jul 3, 2006)

Lieing is unacceptable to me also, I would buy from another maker period!


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## NEWYORKHILLBILLY (Nov 17, 2007)

I have a 2200, I have had no trouble with it,BUT after reading the post I don't think I buy another badlands pack. seems they want state they take care of you ,but when its time to stand up they Don't. The only reason I pay top dollar for there imports was the piece of mind of the warranty. I think if there going to publicly respond that sometimes they say no.. well maybe they should put that in there warranty . If your one of the 98 % people we care about we will take care of you. seems this post alone will cost them a lot of sales. people don't like being taken advantage of.

BADLANDS step up and do the right thing!!!!!!!


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## bowhunterdave (Dec 1, 2005)

I too have a 2200 that will be donated to a close friend this season and after reading this entire thread, I will NOT be Buying another Badlands Pack. I called CS for my William Joseph waders recently and the manager staed that William Joseph, Badlands, and Zebco are the same company now. I Hope Mr Crawleys guys readjust the percentages after this thread, you lost thousands already!!


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## gtsum2 (Dec 31, 2008)

quite the thread...I was going to purchase an ultraday or superday in the next few days, but not now. I understand things break and wear out, but to have the owner come on here (if it was indeed him) and not say, "our bad, this slipped through, I will make it right", is not good for a company that proclaims their warranty to be the best. They actually seem to use their warranty as more of a selling point (or at least equal to) the function of their packs (which seems to be very good). This is just in bad taste imo...I will be ordering a pack from a different company for sure


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## c.sitas (Dec 29, 2010)

Buying China one step at a time.


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## ColoCompound (Oct 27, 2009)

This thread put a bit more money in S&S Archery's pockets.....for the new X2 that arrived last week. Badlands was the front runner prior to reading this. Considering the pricetag....they should have better staff training if not better warranty repairs. Neither is acceptable to me for that much money. Used the Eberlestock this past weekend on a day trip scouting....and couldn't be happier with it.


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## cartman308 (Aug 12, 2006)

-bowfreak- said:


> Update on Badlands warranty: We will fix it....as long as it is easy."
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 1117224


Researching packs and happened onto this thread. It needs bumped....... I read all the way through till a couple posts past Freaks..... I own a Monster Fanny that needs a buckle replaced. I may just give it away now or cut the tiedowns off. Cross the Sacrifice off the possible list! Probably going to be a Horn Hunter MainbeamXL now. 

The response from "badlandspack" is just totally, and completely UNACCEPTABLE! *ITS SUPPOSED TO BE FRIGGIN UNCONDITIONAL!!!!!!!*


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## pronghorn (Jul 16, 2003)

I assure you if you call them they will send you a buckle without question.


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## Lowlevlflyer (Aug 2, 2011)

The only Badlands gear i have is my Mag hip quiver... so far, it's been perfect. As far as packs go, I dont use anything that's not Milspec MOLLE gear, for this exact reason. I figure if it will hold up to the conditions and environments that our armed forces put them through, there's no WAY i'm going to tear it up. With all th different options available, it's almost impossible not to be able to configure a pack that will do just about any job needed.


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## ck3 (Sep 24, 2010)

As long as this surfaced again

I have used a badlands superday for three years. Fantastic pack absolutley no complaints.

Talked a buddy into buying one. He broke the top strap and I told him to send it in. He compalined they asked for shipping costs and figured it was an easy fix $18 shipping may not have been worth it. Fast forward a week or so - got it back they fixed it better than when he bought it (sturdier strap). He opened the pack and inside they had put his $18 uncashed check for the shipping he was complaining about. Sold us forever


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## BuckMaxx (Aug 2, 2011)

Nope I wont purchase any more Badlands stuff...

I spent some serious chedder on stuff I thought would last forever. WRONG!! Every piece I own is BROKE!


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## lovetohuntelk (Jan 12, 2012)

I read through this thread and I think it is interesting to say unconditional warranty.
To those that have said "you received your money's worth out of the pack" 
*That is a completely subjective comment, my money is worth a lot to me. Maybe you can just throw two hundred dollars at a pack every year or two, but I cannot. For this reason, when I buy something I look at the warranty*
Also, A company can't pick and choose. There is not time limit on a UNCONDITIONAL warranty, don't say it if you are not going to stand behind it. The president's comments are not great. You can't be so condescending. You are also contradicting yourself. You don't care about PR but then you self report spending a lot of money on a machine to make sure PR is something that you are monitoring on the internet. Maybe, you should spend the money on a repair facility in the united states. 
Another person suggestedthat the pack needed to be back in time and therfore they couldn't do a full repair, that is crap, put your best person on it and get it fixed. My grandmother could rip that seam and have it sewn back together by hand in 4 hours. 

IT ALL COMES DOWN TO STANDING BY THEIR WORD< AND IN THIS CASE THEY DID NOT
I don't care what the original purpose was or however long he waited. IT does not matter. It is an unconditional warranty.

With that being said, I own a superday pack. I like it, there are some drawbacks and I am concerened now that the badland packs do not stand behind their promise.


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## Where's Bruce? (Jul 11, 2011)

That's the difference between Badlands and Aberlestock. Lots of complaints online about Badland packs failing. A lot of guys love em but my Aberlestock looks, feels and carries better. Try one on.


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