# Holding the recurve grip when shooting



## TER (Jul 5, 2003)

Relaxed hand. Stiff open hand is bad. Beginners often misinterpret "don't grip the handle" as "hold the hand stiffly open as spread out as possible with great tension." Relaxed hand with the bow grip pressing into the right place in your hand will result in the relaxed hand looking curled around the grip, but not gripping, no tension.


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## ksarcher (May 22, 2002)

You may want to check the qualifications of the coaches.


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## midwayarcherywi (Sep 24, 2006)

Or perhaps a beginner with an interpretation that is different from what the coaches have advised? I'm still waiting for you to part with your BMG Stan!!!!


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## ksarcher (May 22, 2002)

Gabe, I see that you are selling some of your toys! As hard as I try to find a better riser the BMG is still my favorite. The BMG Extreme was a brilliant design from Martinus Grov from Norway.


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## K31Scout (Sep 17, 2003)

Are your coaches seeing you grab and slightly torque the bow? Maybe that's why they are telling you to open your hand. Let the finger or wrist sling do the work of catching the bow. Relax and let the bow shoot the arrow. 

Try curling/tucking your fingers into your palm near the riser knuckles at a 45 degree angle and relaxed. Those loose relaxed fingers in front of the riser just want to grab something. Work on one thing at a time without regard to the bullseye. Too many things to try and keep track of will drive you crazy.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

The hands of the top archers may "look" closed at full draw, but they all release the bow at the same time the arrow is released. In other words, you release both hands together. 

At the OTC, we told the students to "tell the dog to SIT" with their bow hand on release. It is a very deliberate motion, pointing the finger at the ground. I still use this technique with my students today (the ones who are ready to learn to release their bow) and they get it pretty quickly. Telling a dog to "sit" with your hand is a great visual that these kids can understand. 

But no, you should not have an "open hand" at full draw. That is not correct. You should be pushing the bow away from you with the base of your thumb, and have a completely relaxed bow hand. Only exception to this that I see work is Brady's raised thumb, and that is pretty unique to him. But even then, the rest of his hand is totally relaxed, and he fully releases the bow when he releases the arrow.


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## rstgyx (Apr 13, 2013)

I have my thumb around the side the group and my index, middle, ring and pinky in a slightly closed fist.

I always try to remember, no white knuckles.


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## Joe Schnur (Mar 22, 2012)

Think of leaning on a cane or railing hand open loose with fingers naturally open like if your hand was hanging at your side then just slip the bow in there change nothing else hand loose just sitting there between you and the bow


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

jay -

The full open/fully extended hand (fingers) is a training technique to teach the shooter what the bow wants to do on release. In that respect it works quite well. 
That "training" may last part of a session or several sessions. 
A more relaxed hand is preferable when actually shooting - after proper bow reaction has been established for the shooter. 
The problem with trying to learn a relaxed had right off the bat, is that a small grab or torque can happen without the shooter (and sometimes the coach) noticing. 

Viper1 out.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Viper, that's why an archer needs a coach to catch their bow for a while, so they can understand the feeling of a total release of the bow. There are other benefits to this exercise too - especially for younger archers.


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## Dacer (Jun 10, 2013)

Using a form master or shoot trainer is helpful too as you can practice not gripping the bow at the release and maintaining that relaxed hand. Not putting tension in my wrist and the back of my bow hand is something I've been trying to work on for a while myself - every time it gets better it always starts to creep back in as i focus on other things. 

I find blank bale shooting and my shoot trainer to be the most helpful when working on this.


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## jaykayes (Dec 27, 2012)

midwayarcherywi said:


> Or perhaps a beginner with an interpretation that is different from what the coaches have advised? I'm still waiting for you to part with your BMG Stan!!!!





K31Scout said:


> Are your coaches seeing you grab and slightly torque the bow? Maybe that's why they are telling you to open your hand. Let the finger or wrist sling do the work of catching the bow. Relax and let the bow shoot the arrow.
> 
> Try curling/tucking your fingers into your palm near the riser knuckles at a 45 degree angle and relaxed. Those loose relaxed fingers in front of the riser just want to grab something. Work on one thing at a time without regard to the bullseye. Too many things to try and keep track of will drive you crazy.


The coaches all watch me do this and tell me I need to extend my fingers straight out. So what you mean is fingers should not be AROUND the grip but sort of relaxed/ curled next to it?



Joe Schnur said:


> Think of leaning on a cane or railing hand open loose with fingers naturally open like if your hand was hanging at your side then just slip the bow in there change nothing else hand loose just sitting there between you and the bow


This is helpful, thanks! I will try that later.



Viper1 said:


> jay -
> 
> The full open/fully extended hand (fingers) is a training technique to teach the shooter what the bow wants to do on release. In that respect it works quite well.
> That "training" may last part of a session or several sessions.
> ...


Viper1 - how do I "undo" this habit though?


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## DWAA Archer (Oct 14, 2011)

A relaxed hand the same as if you were leaning against a wall.

Just make sure that the meaty part of your hand at the base of the thumb is doing the pushing anything finger side of the hand should be very relaxed and not doing any work at all 

*(So No Palming the grip!!!)*


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## midwayarcherywi (Sep 24, 2006)

Stand with your hands relaxed at your side. Note the natural position. Now raise your hand keeping that same natural position. The web of the hand between the thumb and index finger should form sort of a 'U'.Next, point the natural 'U' shaped hand position at the middle of the target. Insert bow and lower your life line to the middle of the grip. Maintain the relaxed hand and finger position through the shot. You WILL need a finger, or wrist sling. Here are a couple of pictures to help.

Archery hand position 1 by 
[url=http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/11269629273/]
Archery hand position 2 by 
[url=http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/11269565946/]
Archery hand position 3 by http://www.flickr.com/people/[email protected]/


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## jaykayes (Dec 27, 2012)

Yes exactly what I was looking for thanks DWAA Archer and midwayarcherywi!

I guess I didn't know why it was so hard to switch from open palm to this relaxed way. I guess it's something that takes practice and getting used to (having done the straight fingers way)?


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## DWAA Archer (Oct 14, 2011)

midwayarcherywi said:


> Stand with your hands relaxed at your side. Note the natural position. Now raise your hand keeping that same natural position. The web of the hand between the thumb and index finger should form sort of a 'U'.Next, point the natural 'U' shaped hand position at the middle of the target. Insert bow and lower your life line to the middle of the grip. Maintain the relaxed hand and finger position through the shot. You WILL need a finger, or wrist sling. Here are a couple of pictures to help.
> 
> Archery hand position 1 by
> [url=http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/11269629273/]
> ...




The second picture looks a lot like the way an untrained beginner might hold a bow. Fingers not pointing to the ground little or no rotation of the elbow. Have you tried to lean against a wall with a hand shape like that?

The reason I'm comparing bow grip to leaning against a wall is that when you do lean against a wall with your palm flat it naturally puts your body in the right shape you can even push the same way you would push the bow. When you try that hand shape for the bow grip keeping your hand relaxed your fingers will naturally point towards the ground.


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## midwayarcherywi (Sep 24, 2006)

Picture 2 is a step in a process, not a final position. I can't tell you how many juniors come in holding the bow with their thumb, more or less. This method has worked and I hope it works for the OP. There are lots of ways to get someone to hold the bow correctly. Finding a way that resonates with your student is not quite as simple as saying lean against a wall; at least not in my experience.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Midway, I'm glad you added that. Good information there.

I would encourage every coach who is working with a recurve archer to - when the archer is ready for it - practice having them shoot their bows out of their hand and into the waiting hands of their coach. 

This really is the only way to see what's going on and whether the archer is completing a full release of the bow, or if they are still pinching or hanging onto it.

The exercise also serves an important purpose - to teach an archer to fully transfer their energy to the arrow, and not withhold tension in the hands at the release. It's as much an exercise in faith and courage as it is in proper technique.

John.


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## jaykayes (Dec 27, 2012)

limbwalker said:


> Midway, I'm glad you added that. Good information there.
> 
> I would encourage every coach who is working with a recurve archer to - when the archer is ready for it - practice having them shoot their bows out of their hand and into the waiting hands of their coach.
> 
> John.


What does this mean? "Shoot their bows out of their hand"? Thanks!


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## midwayarcherywi (Sep 24, 2006)

It means letting the bow fall out of your hand into your coaches hands. If the coaches hands were not there, your bow would fall to the ground. 
In some of those crazy team building exercises, a person falls backwards and trusts that his partner will catch him before he hits the ground. Same deal with your bow. If your bow hand is relaxed and you are not shooting with a sling, the bow should pop straight out of your hand and into your coaches hands.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

It's more than just a trust-building exercise. That's just one tiny component of it.

From a practical sense, it's the best way to diagnose whether an archer is still grabbing their bow. Even with a lot of archers who appear to be releasing their bow, they still manage to grip it or manipulate it prior to releasing it. By removing their sling, you can see without a doubt, what that archer is doing.

The other idea is to show that archer how it feels to complete a full release of the bow, and to get the idea of "letting go" of the shot.

And the bow should not just "fall" out of an archer's hand if they do it correctly. It will jump out aggressively. That's when you know they are not robbing the arrow of energy.


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## Markliep (May 6, 2012)

Jay you've got advice from some very experienced guys so bear in mind what I'm saying comes from one less experienced...what helped me was two things: 

1 - focusing more on stabilizing my bow arm elbow (straight but with elbow outward rotation) aligned my wrist & meant that I put less tension into the bow hand = pulling the bow into the thumb base with a loose hand 
2 - I got rid of all my grips & shoot off the riser, which means easier consistency of the riser edge against my thumb base - hope either of those is of some use - M.


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## spangler (Feb 2, 2007)

Markliep said:


> Jay you've got advice from some very experienced guys so bear in mind what I'm saying comes from one less experienced...what helped me was two things:
> 
> 1 - focusing more on stabilizing my bow arm elbow (straight but with elbow outward rotation) aligned my wrist & meant that I put less tension into the bow hand = pulling the bow into the thumb base with a loose hand
> 2 - I got rid of all my grips & shoot off the riser, which means easier consistency of the riser edge against my thumb base - hope either of those is of some use - M.


You may try introducing some tension into your bow hand thumb, out slightly like a hitchiker so that you can see the thumbnail. This will assist in engaging your triceps of your bow arm, and will introduce the correct tension into your drawing arm to help you lock that elbow down. In addition, ensure the knuckle of your pinkie is drawn back toward you and held at approximately a 45 degree angle. The knuckles of that drawing hand should form a relatively straight line (no cupping).

This hand position will help greatly in creating a static bow arm with the appropriate tension that is maintainable through the process.

Andrew


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

> introducing some tension into your bow hand thumb


 ...


> will assist in engaging your triceps of your bow arm


huh?

Is this something they told you at CV?


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## spangler (Feb 2, 2007)

limbwalker said:


> ...
> 
> huh?
> 
> Is this something they told you at CV?


Yes indeed. Hold out your arm and try it, especially under the load of a bow.


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## bobnikon (Jun 10, 2012)

I am not trained in any system, but I thought we wanted to remove tension from the bow-hand? I would think adding tension to the outer extremities of the hand, thumb and pinky would be more likely to induce torque.


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## williamskg6 (Dec 21, 2008)

Pretty simple description from the level 2 certification book:
1. knuckles at about 45 degree angle
2. thumb pointed toward the target
3. lifeline of the hand on the edge of the grip
4. hand and fingers relaxed

I was also told in my level 2 course to also have the index finger oriented so that it's pointing downward, but not actively doing so. The fingers (including the index finger) should be relaxed, pretty much limp. Tension in the hand introduces bow movement at release and wastes energy, which you may need if you're shooting a lot of arrows.

-Kent


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## spangler (Feb 2, 2007)

bobnikon said:


> I am not trained in any system, but I thought we wanted to remove tension from the bow-hand? I would think adding tension to the outer extremities of the hand, thumb and pinky would be more likely to induce torque.


With regards to the pinky. Please re-read. The knuckle of the pinky, when drawn back toward the archer helps place the hand and bow arm into the correct position, please don't try to add tension to the pinky.

As for the thumb, putting it into the described position (when you hand is in the correct position) doesn't add to any bow torque, and helps stabilize the bow arm.

The hand should not be a torque inducing death grip on the bow. Once you have your hand and arm in the correct position however, adding this thumb position change helps improve your bow arm tension. Your bow arm is clearly is under tension when shooting and cannot be totally relaxed. That would be like shooting with a cooked noodle instead of a 2x4.

Try it for a few hundred arrows, and if you don't agree, simply go back to shooting limphanded. No harm, no foul. Doesn't hurt to try.

For those who are going to complain this is some new secret, please read the Hook/Grip section of Total Archery published in '09, which means it has been advocated since at least '08 and probably before, I don't know exactly for how long. It isn't secret new "changes" or some such nonsense.

I feel at this time I should mention that NONE of you should take what *I* type and ascribe it to the NTS as a whole. I'm not perfect, not that the NTS system is perfect, but my words are MY words and I do my best. I am not NTS embodied and don't anyone dare take my words as such.

Andrew


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## chrstphr (Nov 23, 2005)

limbwalker said:


> ...
> 
> huh?
> 
> Is this something they told you at CV?


Its what Lee calls the american thumb. it sticks your thumb out instead of to target. Brady was the first i saw using it, and then Jake. I however do not see any other top archers on the international stage using it yet. 


Chris


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