# To all ontario archery hunters



## Landscaping (Jul 23, 2007)

*here is the link to submit your reason to the Government.*

http://www.environet.lrc.gov.on.ca/...ticeId=MTA1NTU1&statusId=MTU4MTc5&language=en

On the right hand side, click SUBMIT COMMENT

From there enter your information and off it goes.

Keep those fingers crossed.


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## shakyshot (Dec 21, 2007)

*hunting*

:thumbs_uwife lets me go hunting alot now,lets hope she's this understanding.
BUT, an extra month would be SWEET!!!:thumbs_up:darkbeer:


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## mrolex77 (Nov 1, 2008)

ya i don't think i would have a problem with that!:thumbs_up


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## Bow bandit (Apr 21, 2007)

I don't know about you but I live in one of those proposed areas and there is a decline on the number of deer... With the amount of tags they allow for archery season every tom dick and harry that has a hunting licence know thinks they are archers... the deer are being hit by the local traffic racing around to more then compensate for any rise in deer populations...15 years ago I can remember going into the field for an evening hunt and seeing 30 to 40 deer know your lucky to see 5 or 6 so i don't know where the ministry is getting there data... I used to work at Bass pro in the archery dept and on a regular basis had the guy who bought a cross bow two weeks earlier tell me how he wounded 5 deer before he recovered one, and he has 5 tags in his pocket... if he continues that trend and fills all his tags he my very well kill 25 deer... how is that deer management thats a deer sluaghter.

Lets make bowhunter education manditory and not allow anyone to hunt without out it. at least they will have to know something about archery before they go in the field... no more guys buying a crossbow on friday night and hunting saturday morning... This way the ministry can get some of the precious revenue they are obviously fishing for... The deer are stressed out this time of year from winter, without a bunch more uneducated bow hunters chasing them around.

I also think that the surplus tags the ministry is giving out make no sense at all. why would you hand out 7 buck tags to help control deer populations, when the does are the ones giving birth? If you really want to control the population make it an earn a buck program so you have to shoot a doe before you get a buck tag. lets see some antler resrictions added as well so the deer have a chance to reach 3 or 4 years of age instead of shooting anything that has an antler. 

now the ministry will say that they don't have the man power to enforce it, so deputise me I will gladly do it for free. I would love to charge some of the constant tresspassers tree stand stealers and guys hunting deer from my stand with rifles in a non rifle zone without blaze orange on private property.

Just my 2 cents worth.


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## Summerfeldt (Oct 19, 2006)

Blake you and I know that no matter what you will never change the way some people hunt or should I say kill. Because hunters have ethics and the people that buy a X-bow the friday before the hunt have none.

Even if they had maditory bow hunter ed. they would just do it then go out and do the same thing over and over a leopard can't change his spots.

One of the problems is that people go to Bass Pro and the people there are to sell product not ethics maybe if the people at BP were to tell new people that are getting into the sport for the longer season about the OAA and archery clubs in the area might get them educated a little more.

There is a lot that could be said about a lot of people but that is to much to get into because I am a 2 finger typer

Grant


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## 3DMARK (Mar 26, 2007)

This is the crazyest idea I've ever heard. 

You really think the deer population can stand a season extended more than it is now ? Especially in January.

You better rethink this one.


The deer population in most areas is in a decline, our local WMU 66A deer herd is down an easy 60% form where it was 2 yrs ago. 65A is dropping, and others as well. 

Whoever in the MNR is repsonsilbe for this should be fired. Deer Hunting opportunities my behind.

You want to see deer herd and quality declines go ahead and vote for it.

OH yeah and if someone can prove the OFAH had anything to do with so called new opportunity please let everyone know so we will know who to thank.


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## Summerfeldt (Oct 19, 2006)

I agree with you Mark. I would like to see more and more deer but when you talk to the MNR and the OFAH the deer population is up all over Ont.

I hunt for meat first and if a nice one walks in well you know whats going to happen to him. This season I didn't get out to much but when I did I didn't get to see the number of deer like last year. I did manage to get a doe but I know alot of hunters that didn't even see one even in the gun season.

Its a well know fact that MNR stands for ministry of no results.

Grant


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## Stash (Jun 1, 2002)

Summerfeldt said:


> One of the problems is that people go to Bass Pro and the people there are to sell product not ethics maybe if the people at BP were to tell new people that are getting into the sport for the longer season about the OAA and archery clubs in the area might get them educated a little more.


What makes you think that the people who work at Bass Pro *don't* encourage new bowhunters (both crossbows and vertical bows) to be well prepared before going out into the field? What are the sales people supposed to do - refuse to sell someone a bow or crossbow unless they listen to a lecture on hunting ethics?

Don't point your finger only at the big box stores - the smaller pro shops are just as busy supplying newbies right before hunting season.


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## araz2114 (Jan 13, 2003)

Bow Bandit, are you telling me you are in favour of only shooting one deer per year? Kind of sounds that way... How many did you get to harvest this year? 

Populations go up and populations go down. I don't really think the hunters can change it on a grand scale. The weather, food, and disease have far more impact on the herd than hunters do. 

As for painting store employees with the same brush... are you telling me you never sold a bow or crossbow to someone you knew wasn't going to practice properly, tune broadheads, and get the shooting advice that they needed? Get a mirror!!

If they do want to control the herd... then harvesting does is a better way in my opinion.

Chris


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## 3DMARK (Mar 26, 2007)

1 doe only may be what is required for a few years and a reduced season.

I think its too late for one deer a year in our area, we should of done that this year.

I must admit I wasn't out as much as normal this year but I did NOT see one BUCK over 120 inches. Heck personally I seen maybe two bucks that would hit 100 inches while I was hunting and only seen one doe with two fawns.

Our herd is in rough shape. 

We need to squash the multiple tags and do it foor 2009. 

Will it happen, I doubt it, too much money at stake.


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## Landscaping (Jul 23, 2007)

*wooooo*

OFF TOPIC!

This isn't a debate. Air your thoughts on the ministries 
web-site. Stash does the best he can helping even the least qualified get set up and get into the field, to enjoy our sport that has grown because of him. This sport needs to be in the fiels 365 days a year. Regulations are in place for a reason. I see 20-30 deer every weekend in 3-4 different fields in 78A/B. Just think of the ones that havn't got to the field yet.

Wait I'm getting off topic.

VOTE or DONT VOTE for the extra days.... geeezzz


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## bsk72512 (Dec 12, 2005)

Landscaping.................great post. Just went and voiced my opinion on the issue.:darkbeer:


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## 3DMARK (Mar 26, 2007)

Landscaping.

3 yrs ago we had your numbers as well.

Now were doing good to find 20 or 30 in the our winter yarding areas.

Vote how you wish. I was just trying to help . 

I'm not religous by any means but I pray your herd doesn't go down hill like ours.

Good Luck.


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## 3--d (Feb 15, 2005)

3DMARK said:


> Landscaping.
> 
> 3 yrs ago we had your numbers as well.
> 
> ...


Mark is right for sure

Due to the large amount of snow last year...the coyotes had a feeding frenzy
Every hunter i talked to has seen less deer ths year then ever before
Deer numbers are down....increasing the number of tags isnt going to help the deer

Andy

:darkbeer:


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## patriotvft (May 12, 2005)

*lots to consider*

deer populations can fluctuate for many reasons. poachers, predation, human encroachment, disease.... my personal belief is that it isnt the newbies that are causing the numbers to drop. half of them couldnt hit a barn if they standing in the middle of it. if you cant hit it, you cant kill it. coyote numbers are way up from a few years ago. what i think is happening in wmu 78, there has been a huge number of new subdivions going up everywhere causing the deer to concentrate in smaller areas. this could cause disease to spread even quicker, road kills to increase, dropping deer populations at alarming rates. i would rather take an extra deer than let more than the one die from disease. i hunt a few areas where the numbers are up and some are down. personally i dont mind the extra time. gives me a larger window to go after the bigger guys as long as they can keep their hat on long enough.


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## DODGE-3D (Feb 17, 2005)

We do not need this at all ,if you cant shoot a deer in 65 days or so,give it up.Yeah now they will be shooting bucks with no horns.The numbers are down and will keep dropping if this goes through.I am with 3D Mark, BowBandit,Simmerfeldt on this one.Next it is Turkeys in the fall.


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## pintojk (Jan 31, 2003)

3--d said:


> Mark is right for sure
> 
> Due to the large amount of snow last year...the coyotes had a feeding frenzy
> Every hunter i talked to has seen less deer ths year then ever before
> ...


61 and 62 are running rampant with yotes right now, they come right into my brother in laws barn yard all the time now 

my question is why January, why not earlier in the season ??? oh well, as most of you know I'm a "fair weather" hunter :lol:


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## pintojk (Jan 31, 2003)

DODGE-3D said:


> Next it is Turkeys in the fall.


we have that already


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## Engine10 (Sep 6, 2007)

I've phoned to comment and also logged my views on-line.

It puzzles me how MNR decreased the extra archery-doe tags in our area from 6 to 2 claiming a diminished herd size and now want to expand the season.

In speaking with the woman who is co-ordinating these motions I explained to her that we are seeing greatly reduced herd population and that the increased numbers that seem to cause concern to the public regarding deer/vehicle collisions and property damage in the outlying suburbs emerge and return to areas of sanctuary where hunting is not allowed and the deer numbers in those pockets thrive for lack of predation by humans and natural order.

You can imagine what an extra month of pressure will do if a January hunt is allowed. Bucks in this area begin to drop antlers by the end of December. 
Though I enjoy eating venison (I've a roast thawing on the counter) I've upped the personal hunting challenge and I look for big antlers (perhaps some other hunters do as well), to that end it concerns me that we will lose a lot of potential from an already pressured species when antlerless bucks start getting whacked. 

If this situation were properly managed by allowing an initial purchase of only 1 doe tag and the proved harvest of that single doe would allow the successfull hunter to be eligable to buy a single buck tag-The End- it would enact some control.

The most contraversial item to me is their intent to allow American non-resident deer hunters into South-western Ontario. Earlier changes echoed in migratory water-fowl hunting in this area have led to hunting-leases on most of the good hunting spots and for lease prices that are unmatchable by us peasant locals.
If this proposal goes through you can count on having to reach for your wallet when you want permission to deer hunt on buddy-next-doors bush lot. Maybe not for a few years but I suspect it will gradually become common-place to pay to hunt on private land. alaUSA.
It's already happening here around London and I've no doubt it will be the way of the future but as long as hunter/land-owner relationships can function on good-will and a hand-shake we will be the better for it.

It's no puzzle why that issue is being pushed with Ameriacan paying $130 p/deer price tag vs. ON. resident $37.30. MNR CASH GRAB

Just some musing's from rural Scottsville........Angus


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## Bow bandit (Apr 21, 2007)

Chris if you read my hole post I was not painting anyone or store with one brush, I was simply stating my personal experience working in a big box store. I can promise you that every bow I sold came with as much insruction I could provide an a stern lecture about ethical hunting shots. If I was told by someone that they where going hunting the next day I always tried to talk them out of it but that does not mean they listened.

I also stated that if they really wanted control the extra tags and seasons should be for does.

I never said I don't shoot more than one deer a year! but I do make sure the ones I do are dead and found. 

And Grant at least if they had some sort of bowhunter education before they went out in the bush with a bow they might know where to aim or place a shot with a bow.


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## Bow bandit (Apr 21, 2007)

I agree Angus non of this is about deer control, just a way to line the wallet.


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## Twister10 (Oct 14, 2007)

Just my .02 cents but if the DNR really wants to extend the season I personally would like to see it go the other way and start it earlier than Oct 1. I am originally from Manitoba and our season there would start August 28 usually for archery and would give opportunities at bucks with velvet on. I just don't understand why the govt. would want to put more stress on the deer herd as they are already contending with winter survival. Granted Ontario winters are not as hard as other places but I am sure that the snow this Dec/Jan is not making life easy for the herd.

Jamie


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## Landscaping (Jul 23, 2007)

*Tennis anyone*

O.K. 
That does it! 
This wasnt meant to be a coffe break hang out chat thread.

Clear my throat!
Now! I.F> you have a coment towards this issue 
C A L L or W R I T E the M.N.R.

Deer are to be managed like everything else. Get a rifle, and some coyote calls and get out there like everyother "NON fair weather hunter" and do something about the "COYOTE" population. I've killed 12 since November. I cant wait to get my .243. I can only imagine how many are going to be fur coat contributors then.


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## 3DMARK (Mar 26, 2007)

*Poll*

Tell me WHY we need more hunters in the field ? Especially in January. 

We have a season that runs from Oct 1st to Dec 31st. 

If that isn't long enough then too bad. 

There should be poll question that says the January extension is a JOKE, fire whoever thought of the idiotic idea and if OFAH is supporting then please cancel my membership. 

I'd be curious to know if there is any other State or province that has a January deer season bet you not many, and if they do, they have deer populations alot higher than anywhere in Ontario.


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## Landscaping (Jul 23, 2007)

*Oh Geezz*

Whatever!!


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## Landscaping (Jul 23, 2007)

*Connecticut has a January bow season in certain high deer density zones.

Ohio Is until Feb 4th*

I'll keep posting the dates as the thread i started gets responses.


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## Landscaping (Jul 23, 2007)

*Mississippi*

Mississippi


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## Landscaping (Jul 23, 2007)

*PA's late season runs into January for a bit*

PA's late season runs into January for a bit


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## Landscaping (Jul 23, 2007)

*Maryland ends Jan 31*

Maryland ends Jan 31


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## Landscaping (Jul 23, 2007)

*Arizona has a Jan season for some units but there are no deer here so it no big deal*

Arizona has a Jan season for some units but there are no deer here so it no big deal


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## Landscaping (Jul 23, 2007)

*OH - all of January, bow/crossbow only.*

OHIO - all of January, bow/crossbow only.


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## Landscaping (Jul 23, 2007)

*Arkansas' bow season goes till the end of Febuary*

Arkansas' bow season goes till the end of Febuary


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## Landscaping (Jul 23, 2007)

*Georgia's southern region is open until January 15th, and in a few metro Atlanta coun*

Georgia's southern region is open until January 15th, and in a few metro Atlanta counties there's a late bow season that ends January 31st


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## Landscaping (Jul 23, 2007)

*alabama-open til jan. 31st*

alabama-open til jan. 31st


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## Landscaping (Jul 23, 2007)

*Janurary 15th here in the state of Missouri*

Janurary 15th here in the state of Missouri


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## Landscaping (Jul 23, 2007)

*KS season ends state wide on 12/31 but unit#19 was open until 1/31/09. Between 8 of u*

KANSASS season ends state wide on 12/31 but unit#19 was open until 1/31/09.


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## pintojk (Jan 31, 2003)

geesh, almost every State you list has a warmer climate than ours, hence the longer seasons !!!

like I said, September would be a better choice in my books, but then I also feel our seasons long enough as it stands :thumb:


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## Landscaping (Jul 23, 2007)

*That doesnt matter 1%*

If you deer hunt than you know as well as anyone that if you dont see horns "DONT SHOOT" unless your doe hunting.
If you want to stay in side and hunt on the computer, than so be it. The added 15 days will give us hardcore bowhunters an extra few days to pursue the beast that we have on our trail cameras, or to get out of the house and relax a little while longer. If your area has no deer thats fine! hunt where they are. Dont tell everyone that the season is a rediculous idea and that there is no real reasons for the extra days, I'd like to see you hunt in the areas where there are alot of deer, your head would spin. Not to mention the 20 or so farmers in 10 square miles that i hunt in, that have killed deer with there cars, trucks and combines EVERY YEAR! what about the lady who was killed this year in Sunderland around November 14th by a ******ed deer accident? of the other 140,000 accidents that happen in southern ontario?
Housing
New Plazas
New Roads
Bridges
Farming
ALLLLLL have major impacts on the deer migrations. If the 500 deer that were in south Durham get pushed out... where the HELL are they going to go......????? YAH!

And to make matters worse your basing your decision on what you "see" NOT whats out there. Those warmer states have FRIDGID WEATHER AS WELL. Not as much snow. I have hunted Several states in January and my feet still freeze no matter what.

Deer have a pattern they follow every year.
Once it gets cold they go to there yarding area. They stay in packs. 

The coyotes cant kill dozens of deer a winter to affect the numbers enought not to have a 15 day extention.

Each doe has on average 2 deer.

NOW!!

if 20 does have 2 deer????

thats???? = 40 DEER

over 5 years thats 200 deer.

WHAT THE!!!!!

THIS IS A NO BRAINER.


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## Landscaping (Jul 23, 2007)

*Md has a 2 day gun season in the early part of jan. Bow season goes til the 31*

Maryland has a 2 day gun season in the early part of jan. Bow season goes til the 31

Real Warm there in January?


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## Landscaping (Jul 23, 2007)

*South Dakota runs till the end of Dec. for bucks and does and then is open for anterl*

South Dakota ( REALLY HOT THERE IN JANUARY) 
runs till the end of Dec. for bucks and does and then is open for anterless only till the end of Jan


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## Landscaping (Jul 23, 2007)

*South Mississippi ends Feb 15.*

South Mississippi ends Feb 15.


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## Landscaping (Jul 23, 2007)

*In New Jersey, our winter bow season closes February 21st this year.*

In New Jersey, bow season closes February 21st this year.


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## 3DMARK (Mar 26, 2007)

GOOD LUCK TO YOU, your fellow HARDCORE Bowhunters and your WMU. 

I'm done here before I get banned. 







Landscaping said:


> If you deer hunt than you know as well as anyone that if you dont see horns "DONT SHOOT" unless your doe hunting.
> If you want to stay in side and hunt on the computer, than so be it. The added 15 days will give us hardcore bowhunters an extra few days to pursue the beast that we have on our trail cameras, or to get out of the house and relax a little while longer. If your area has no deer thats fine! hunt where they are. Dont tell everyone that the season is a rediculous idea and that there is no real reasons for the extra days, I'd like to see you hunt in the areas where there are alot of deer, your head would spin. Not to mention the 20 or so farmers in 10 square miles that i hunt in, that have killed deer with there cars, trucks and combines EVERY YEAR! what about the lady who was killed this year in Sunderland around November 14th by a ******ed deer accident? of the other 140,000 accidents that happen in southern ontario?
> Housing
> New Plazas
> ...


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## araz2114 (Jan 13, 2003)

Bandit, sorry I came across too harsh... just busting your knads I guess. I do happen to agree with you on most points. 
Bowhunter education... I am in favour of 100%
Shooting bucks (I know you are a fan of this) helps keep the herd strong. If you want to control it shoot does... period!
As you know I too have worked in an archery shop and it is disgusting to see "hunters" buy their first bow during or just before the season to try to kill some deer. Or the people that don't shoot their broadheads to make sure they are sighted in? Makes me sick to my stomach.
I know you try to make the best shot possible and try with every ounce of your being to find every animal you shoot. I sure wish more hunters worked as hard as you... maybe not that hard :teeth::teeth:

Total money grab.... as the ministry has been for a long long time. Managing the herd? Ya, right.

Chris


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## Bow bandit (Apr 21, 2007)

Landscaping you also do some guiding up here do you not? if so I can see your interest in longer seasons and allowing non res to hunt here. If I am wrong on this fact sorry in advance.

As for the places you keep posting that have really long seasons, your not comparing apples to apples, most do not allow the number of tags we do and they have antler restictions to let the bucks grow. they also have late rut dates as well, totally different senario. If you want to hunt in Jan then book a trip and go.

I sort of like finding sheds in the winter and knowing that I may see the buck next year, not mistaken for a doe and killed.


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## bsk72512 (Dec 12, 2005)

Reading the above poll, I decided not to vote as I think my statement on the issue would be:

It will put more hunting hours into archery season and should help the over populated areas control numbers.

I am against the non-resident season in southern Ontario for archery.

Not sure this is a get more people into the woods legislation. Since the liberal gun laws that is going to be a tuff sell to get those that left back.


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## MJewell (Nov 24, 2007)

I'm totally against the idea, as the deer are usaully having an hard enough time by the end of bow season in December. Let alone in to January. I do hunt another WMU(75) that is not on the list to be open and the Crown land there, is and yarding area and once the snow flys in December it is an killing zone. alot of the guys that take deer from there are driving upwards of 2 hours to get there and some are driving more. Not sure of how many deer where killed there this past year, but two years ago warden estimated that there was close to 40 deer harvested off of the crown land there.

What is needed right now is coyote control not deer control.

If the MNR would like to extend the season add the time to the beginning of the season when the deer still have an equal advantage.

Matt


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## bsk72512 (Dec 12, 2005)

It seem that depending how far east you go the issues change. In Essex, Lambton and Kent some years the Bucks late rut is the end of December and we normally do not have the snow fall they have from London on east.

We have a huge issue here with over population and I would rather see an extended by 15 day hunt as opposed to more shotgun seasons. 

Each are has specific issue and should be taken up with your Zone director for OFAH and the OAA. Ministry sits with these groups to go through the issues and should be able to find common ground.

MY2C


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## ont.deerhunter (Mar 26, 2004)

*Late season*

Be very careful what you guys wish for! Four years ago we had a great deer population a well. Some bad decisions by the MNR to introduce extra tags and crop depervation tags a harsh winter and our herd is brutal. Landscaping you are really going to wish that you passed " on your biggest deer to date" by the way a hardcore deer hunter would have passed on that one to let him grow up. Honestly 120" 4 years ago here were very common and I was passing on 130" deer if they were not old enough. This year I only saw two deer over 120". Things can change very quickly as we unfortunately have learned first hand! I don"t understand why you would want to go into the deer yards in January for a slaughter. You might as well be hunting dairy cows! Not very challenging! Be very careful who you class as a hardcore hunter as well . 3DMARK has forgot more about deer and deer hunting than you will ever know. We are just offering advice based on first hand experiences take it as you will ! Good luck with your guiding business in the future! Nobody is going pay you( or trade archery equipment as you asked for) to hunt the deer that we have left after a couple of years of poor management!!!! Good luck! Paul Shipclark.


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## cath8r (Jan 17, 2003)

I think that in my area of Southern Ontario a late hunt will definitely hurt the herd. As these deer start yarding up they will be alot easier pickings. If we had the cover that alot of the rest of Ontario had, maybe. My area is dotted with 20-60 acre woods and has limited escape cover. 
I also feel that our herd has been damaged by bringing in a yearly 2 day shotgun/muzzleloader hunt. I have definitely noticed a decrease in numbers since this has happened. 
I really hope the MNR does'nt let this happen.

I edited to add that the poll is hard for me to vote for as I don't think the 2 choices are accurate. I think that the herd will definitley be hurt as more hunters will stay out to fill their tags. Same amount of hunters just out longer.

Essex County is definitely not overpopulated IMHO.


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## bsk72512 (Dec 12, 2005)

Reading between the lines here I see a lot of personal stuff being thrown around....................I thought we were discussing 15 day extentions to seasons?

Thought this would be a good disscusion but going south quick.

I'm outa here:smile:


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## ont.deerhunter (Mar 26, 2004)

*Personal*

It gets personal very quick when people make statements about things that they have little to no background on the situation at hand. I do take my deer hunting very seriously and hate for you guys to experience what we have in the last few years! Take some advice from an area that had great whitetail hunting just a few years ago! I walked around a food source after a snow fall two days prior and only cut one set of tracks!! Four years ago I would see anywhere from 15-20 deer from my stand going to those fields. My stand was 100 yds inside the bush so I was by no means seeing all the deer going to the fields from my stands. We are honestly just trying to help you guys out! You do not want what we have right now! Just some advice, manage the deer herd properly! If the numbers are way up in your area shooting monster bucks in January is not going to help!


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## XTRMN8R (Mar 26, 2004)

*additional season*

:mg:so than what you are saying is that because we build malls and highways and because people get killed in deer car collisions than we need to open the season to kill more deer. Come on now. I am a hardcore bowhunter! I also understand that the high number of deer car collisions are adjacent to areas of high deer / human population density. So, what we need is access to bowhunt these areas. We could also use bowhunter education, earn a buck tag allocation, additional doe tags etc. Just keep in mind while you vote on this issue that here in S. On. deer will start to heard up and move to different food sources at the end of Dec. making them easy targets. How easy do we want this to get for those fortunate enough to be hunting on that land. How tough is it for bowhunters where there is already multiple gun seasons. How many 2 year old bucks do we want taken out of the heard?? Maybe we should teach our farmers deer damage from raccoon damage. ???? Maybe more bowhunters should take up 3D.(sorry I had to throw that one in)


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## bsk72512 (Dec 12, 2005)

> so than what you are saying is that because we build malls and highways and because people get killed in deer car collisions than we need to open the season to kill more deer. Come on now.


Since your post seems more on the logical side then the emotional one I decided to wade in a bit.

No, What I am saying is we need to address issues in areas where there is a problem and SubDivision deer are getting to be a problem and in some rural areas in question also have problems. So what do we do? Let the guys who have private land take care of it for the rest of us. Sounds like the tail wags the dog no-fix.



> I am a hardcore bowhunter! I also understand that the high number of deer car collisions are adjacent to areas of high deer / human population density.


I shoot Moose with a bow, deer, grouse, pheasant...............etc. So what is your definition of Hardcore............I have been an avid BowHunter for 30 years, owned a pro shop for 12 and design bows. I love archery also.

Through Essex county there are on average one deer/vehicle challenge each day.........364 accidents on yearly avg. Chevy's are taking more big bucks than Mathews and that my friend is a waste. I talk to a lot of our Law Enforcement down here and I think the numbers can be verified by the insurance guys down here.

If we go by logic when Urban areas expand.......they push wild populations out. That being said there should be two outcomes.

1. Deer and other populations move out to less wild populated wild areas.
2. They are boxed in because there is no vacancy in the outer areas and they have to adapt to the sub division.

Not an expert but I do watch...............I have been a hunter for 34 years.





> So, what we need is access to bowhunt these areas.


I could not agree with you more! But i doubt I will see the private land hunters at the council meetings to back me up on this one.



> We could also use bowhunter education, earn a buck tag allocation, additional doe tags etc.


There has not been an International BowHunter class in my area for over 10 years. And the gun guys are teaching the BowHunters so yep we have a lot of work in this area also.

They already have extra anterless tags, but I would be willing to look at the earn a buck system.



> Just keep in mind while you vote on this issue that here in S. On. deer will start to heard up and move to different food sources at the end of Dec. making them easy targets.


If deer were such an "easy target" we would not be having this debate and 15 extra days of season is not going to put them out there like a "3D" shoot. For the food sources maybe the issue is NO Bait Piles like they have done in Michigan. I bet you that will anger the 'Hardcore Baiters".



> How easy do we want this to get for those fortunate enough to be hunting on that land.


That would be terrible for them they might have to not tag a few of them to keep up!:mg:




> How tough is it for bowhunters where there is already multiple gun seasons. How many 2 year old bucks do we want taken out of the heard?? Maybe we should teach our farmers deer damage from raccoon damage. ????


I hunt public land in Lambton and this year they had a whole herd of 150 pound+ racoons in the fields I hunt. Trouble was the live traps were too small. Now the farmers are dumb and The Ministry is throwing darts at this.............Give me a break.



> Maybe more bowhunters should take up 3D.(sorry I had to throw that one in)


Yep maybe they should, foam don't jump but it melts on the barbie. 

I have not seen a population quote or facts in this thread yet. Like we had an estimated herd size of 3 and now we have 1. Our area has 1500 bowhunters. One guy took a nice buck and a Pinto smacked the other one. 

JMHO


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## Pic (Sep 12, 2003)

All in all, what really matters is preserving the deer herd. The MNR is doing SQUAT, the only thing they worry about, is being able to line their wallet and slap us in the face, by not even putting the money back in the environment. As hunters, WE...I REPEAT....WE must realize and come to our senses to know better and act accordingly. 

Most of what I read about the "die hard" hunters, is that their looking for an opportunity to "kill"...and justifying it any way possible. All the comments against the extended season comes from true hunters, WHO CARE, because they know, have witnessed and live what it is to make the wrong decision.

I know that here in WMU 65, the deer population has dropped dramatically…why, because of bad decisions and poor information gathering skills, by the MNR. I know many supposedly “die hard” hunters who pad their surveys, so that they can get the extra tags the next year, with no regard for our deer herd or their healthy maintenance.

And for the comment of “The coyotes can’t kill dozens of deer a winter to affect the numbers enough not to have a 15 day extention.” Try telling that to the guy who walks through some of his hunting grounds and finds 9, 12, 15 deer carcasses. That’s only ONE hunter, walking a little bit of the big pie…coyotes are taking more deer than you can even imagine.

So, if you just want the opportunity to hunt, irregardless of the effects, than go for it, but if one wants to guarantee the survival and upkeep a great herd of deer, you know what is right and has to be done.

In closing, blast me all you want, but I know what I lived through this past season, and from what I’ve heard coming from many parts of the province, if the MNR doesn’t smarten up and we don’t push them along that past, our herd will suffer, as it already has been for the last 4 years.


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## cath8r (Jan 17, 2003)

I agree with your post Dave (xterminator). Alot of the problems I see are the limited acces to hunting land. That is causing a decline in hunters numbers overall (at least in my area). There are pockets of too high deer density. To force an overall increased deer harvest in my WMU 94 would be silly. To open hunting opportunities in the high density pockets would make perfect sense. I have seen fewer deer throuought the year, not only deer season, for the last 5 years. Its getting worse. I live in the middle of where hunters come to hunt from the citys and towns. Oddly enough alot of these hunters have a better chance of hitting a deer leaving their driveway than seeing one from a stand they are hunting...


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## bsk72512 (Dec 12, 2005)

Pic,



> Most of what I read about the "die hard" hunters, is that their looking for an opportunity to "kill"...and justifying it any way possible. All the comments against the extended season comes from true hunters, WHO CARE


Pic, I did not harvest a deer this year. Last year I passed up on seven and did not fill my tag then. I have seen a lot of deer where I live this year but I hunt in another county. 

You seem to judge and make statements based on what you do not know or have provided any facts to make your point. You just state what you have personally seen. I take offence that you say I do not care about the issue and paint anyone that does not share your opinion, and no I do not have a guideing service.

MNR with OFAH and Reginal Consevation Groups do look at these issues and if called upon will present to other groups rational to support their efforts and decisions. We know this to be true when issues on the Lake Erie Fisherys came up in our area and we asked them to present in an open forum to the people that question the lack of facts or responses to those facts. They responded willingly with a wealth of data.

I agree and support a healthy herd. Mistakes get made sometimes and we must respond when that happens to prevent it from happening again. I believe allowing people 6 extra tags a year is wrong as the few benifit at a cost to the many. Not allowing Open calculated hunts by all is wrong but Rondeau and Point pelee are allowed to happen also. So what is the answer. Emotional finger pointing does nothing.

You do not know me nor do you know what I care and am active about. Please put your paint brush away.


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## Landscaping (Jul 23, 2007)

*Alabama goes thru 01/31 and Florida goes thru 2nd week of February.*

Alabama goes thru 01/31 and Florida goes thru 2nd week of February.


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## Landscaping (Jul 23, 2007)

*The MNR should*

Maybe consider giving the hides of the coyotes to local fur traders. The coyote are NOT killing that many deer in your pie! If that were tru you would have about 100 coyotes for every deer. If that were the case you would have the coyotes delivering the mail. Why have you not implemented a coyote hunt with the local archers, or fellow hunters? I did. I have killed three in the last 10 days. I rarely see a coyote while deer hunting and if i do, I know what to do...DEAD! I carry calls with me to lure them in and make sure i have a set of two or three broadheads to take care of them.
There seems to be alot of miss inturpretation here. The season is to give those who otherwise cannot hunt during the fall months, to have a chance to get out and hunt in January, look at it that way. Besides, if your not interested in hunting in january because your cold or something, watch t.v. If I am looking to kill a buck, I'll look for antlers, but you nor the MNR can controll every hunter. Therefore, concentrate on your own property and surrounding lands to help mannage the heard. Kill coyotes, harvest more does, WHATEVER! 

Negativity will hurt us all. We are hunters and gatherer's.

Lets get the season and go from there.


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## cath8r (Jan 17, 2003)

Landscaping, I'm sure your a good guy so I hope you don't take this the wrong way.
I don't think that the season is for those that can't hunt in the fall. The MNR is trying to send whole WMU's to the paint shop when each one needs its own stroke. 
I wish Ontario had the attitude that alot of states have toward wildlife management. Break States down into individual areas and spend the money to hire wildlife biologists to accurately paint a picture of what is needed in specific zones. There are parts of Illinois, Iowa, Wisconsin (name your big buck state) that need alot of herd downsizing (multiple antlerless tags) and other parts that need a one doe per year rule.
What we need is urban hunts (here in WMU 94 The only area I can speak for) just like Metro Detroit, Minneapolis etc. etc. That is again in my humble opinion. 
The people that have hunting licences will find a chance to hunt in the fall and don't need 2 weeks after New Years to try to fill a tag.


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## bsk72512 (Dec 12, 2005)

Good post Rob, I agree it needs to be looked at and micro managed better:thumbs_up


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## c'dn-eh? (Feb 23, 2005)

Landscaping said:


> *Connecticut has a January bow season in certain high deer density zones.
> 
> Ohio Is until Feb 4th*
> 
> I'll keep posting the dates as the thread i started gets responses.


Ohio also starts early September (archery). However, gun season is Dec 1-5, and Dec21-24. Muzzeloader is Dec 27-29th. 

Our Gun season is during prime rut and we added a week to make sure we get those deer. We also added 1st week of December for muzzleloading.

Ohio is 1 buck limit. We have 100% draw for doe tags, but we added around 3,000 any sex tags(if it's brown it's down). That doesn't take into effect landowner nuisance tags which seem unlimited here. 

Now ministry would like to add use of dogs in 65 during gun season to help us out. Hardly see any deer now, this should take care of the rest.


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## Landscaping (Jul 23, 2007)

*Fewww*

Thanks everyone for your Honest opinions and thoughts.
I can't close this thread, I'm looking forward to the decision like most.
Glad I came on here and gave you all the thread, so you could voice your opinion.

Cheers, and hope to get out with you all one day hunting.:wink:


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## northern rednek (Oct 24, 2008)

Wish they would do something up here in the north,people hitting deer everywhere.


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## JDoupe (Dec 9, 2006)

Pretty hard to extend the season up North. The deer can't really run any place in the deep snow. Not very fair......


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