# x-force evaluation



## MIKEY CUSTOM-G

i just got in my x-force yesterday thru UPS. i left work a bit early to go home change and head to the range. i had the x-force set up with just a QAD elite rest,winners choice strings,and a peep. i bought a G-5 sight but they sent me the wrong sized pins,,,,wayyyyyyyyy too big for this fast bow....its appears to be about a .035 or at best a .029. i wanted and specified a .019. anyways,,,the bow also came set up with a loop which i detest. i TOLD them no loop !!!! lol....i'm old school and dont want no loop coming done while i draw on a critter in the field. so anyway,,,i assemble the sight and place a vibracheck icon i had laying around and a braided rope sling on it. set the 20 yard pin to where i thought it would be okay,,,,,and centered the pins inline with the arrow at rest,,,being confident i dont torque my bow,,,,little cocky,,,but thats how i always set a sight up. i shot the first shot and truly noticed this bow has as little as any bow in the world of hand schock ,hand vibration and JUMP after the shot. now i do own a mathews legacy,and switchback and shot hoyts and bowtech's,,,,none are ANY better after the shot then this bow. HOWEVER this bow was SLINGING an arrow down range !!!!! THUMP,THUMP,THUMP,THUMP !!!!! i was almost blowing thru the initial shots at 10 yards !!! buried to the fletch on my acc 360's which are 28.5 inches long and match my draw length. the bow was or is set on 73 pounds SUPPOSEDELY ,,,,,i didn't scale it. it did feel 70 poundish i would say. ill do that when i have some time. it was late afternoon and i wanted to see what this thing was all about. well the bow is a CERTAIN winner !!!! its as UGLY as UGLY can get for a bow....lol make no mistake,,,,,i mean a switchback looks so much more elegant,,,,,but this X-force ROCKS !!!! how can you argue with its speed and lack of vibration and hand shock ??? there is no argument from me !!!! in my mind its the bow of the year hands down !!!! :darkbeer: :darkbeer: :darkbeer: :darkbeer: should fill the freezer this summer with boar and deer in the fall !!!!


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## Hereiam_74

By the sounds of it the PSE X-force is a real performer. Man, there are just so many good fast bows out there, Envy and Black Mamba X1 (and Allegience as well as Pro 3000 slightly behind). Don't know which one to get. Well I already bought the Darton Pro 3000, but was hoping to trade in my 2006 Bowtech Tribute for one of the faster bows... Shoot, perhaps I'll just wait til next year when the companies make even faster and better bows which might hit the 370 to 380 fps. Who knows.

If the PSE wasn't so UGLY looking I'd buy it. Only a mother (in this case the owner/designer) can love it. I need sometime to convince myself that it looks fine before I think about opening my wallet.


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## Hereiam_74

By the way, what's the draw stop like? Hard wall or soft wall?


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## carteranderson

*What about...*

Iron Mace? Iron Mace has much better BH, and even the Martin Slayer X has 6.5 BH. 
Not to be a nay-sayer, and not to steal the thread, but I've never been one to go for speed when accuracy is the ticket...

Here is a forgiveness rating chart:

http://www.huntersfriend.com/2007-Bow-Reviews/compound-bows-sorted-by-forgiveness-rating.htm

Almost appears that the APA Anaconda is the best choice for speed and forgiveness, but the HCA lineup isn't listed, so who knows...

Carter





Hereiam_74 said:


> By the sounds of it the PSE X-force is a real performer. Man, there are just so many good fast bows out there, Envy and Black Mamba X1 (and Allegience as well as Pro 3000 slightly behind). Don't know which one to get. Well I already bought the Darton Pro 3000, but was hoping to trade in my 2006 Bowtech Tribute for one of the faster bows... Shoot, perhaps I'll just wait til next year when the companies make even faster and better bows which might hit the 370 to 380 fps. Who knows.
> 
> If the PSE wasn't so UGLY looking I'd buy it. Only a mother (in this case the owner/designer) can love it. I need sometime to convince myself that it looks fine before I think about opening my wallet.


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## Shaman

carteranderson said:


> Iron Mace? Iron Mace has much better BH, and even the Martin Slayer X has 6.5 BH.
> Not to be a nay-sayer, and not to steal the thread, but I've never been one to go for speed when accuracy is the ticket...
> 
> Here is a forgiveness rating chart:
> 
> http://www.huntersfriend.com/2007-Bow-Reviews/compound-bows-sorted-by-forgiveness-rating.htm
> 
> Almost appears that the APA Anaconda is the best choice for speed and forgiveness, but the HCA lineup isn't listed, so who knows...
> 
> Carter


Do a forum search.
The people who have shot both say there is no comparison.
The PSE X-Force changes the ATA/BH argument.
Just like years ago no one could be convinced to shoot shorter than 42"ATA and 9+ BH, PSE challenges the 7" BH barrier and lower ATA for a great hunting bow.

It is a hunting bow with speed and not a speed bow for hunting.


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## Andreas

I went from a 8,5" brace to a 7" Brace Slayer (C-cams basically gives another 0,5") and was a little nervous about the "only" 7" brace. Now moving to the 6" X-Force I was a little more confident about it since I was wrong about the 7". I do not notice that the X-Force has a shorter brace, I somewhat think it might even feels like more brace but I haven't shoot enough arrows yet to be firm on this statement.


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## DFA

Carteranderson,
No disrespect intended but hat chart is bogus :embara: 
They have a chart made up for just about anything. When have you seen any tournaments won with some of their "Most Forgiving Bows" ? With their thought process a 66" recurve with a 10" brace height would be on top.
DFA


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## john09040

*X-Force*

I dont know about any forgivness chart but I was shooting some 2" groups with mine today at 50yds in a pretty strong crosswind they were 8" left of the dot but 2" overall spread.Shot some with 3 arrows touching and one a little out.I am impressed with its accuracy,its a shooter.:thumbs_up


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## carteranderson

*Yeah*



john09040 said:


> I dont know about any forgivness chart but I was shooting some 2" groups with mine today at 50yds in a pretty strong crosswind they were 8" left of the dot but 2" overall spread.Shot some with 3 arrows touching and one a little out.I am impressed with its accuracy,its a shooter.:thumbs_up


You can't argue with success. We don't have a PSE dealer in the area, so it'll be a while before I can run 'er through my hands. What's the technology behind the X-Force that attenuates a 6.0 BH?
C.


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## john09040

carteranderson said:


> You can't argue with success. We don't have a PSE dealer in the area, so it'll be a while before I can run 'er through my hands. What's the technology behind the X-Force that attenuates a 6.0 BH?
> C.


I guess the way the limb tips travel. The string almost stops completely at rest when fired no real forward string travel,the limb tips must cancell out this tendancy in some way.I shot mine the other day with a jacket and it never touched it.My Apex 7 with the exact same draw lengh and supressors and a 7'BH would slap this jacket frequently.I dont think the torque issue has been changed but the grip is awsome which helps a bunch.The draw cycle is smooth but builds evenly over its lengh and terminates in a semi short vally (not as short as spirals but more less that a Apex 7)This bow in my opinion comands strong aggresive form but rewards you with excellent accuracy and the speed is a secondary bonus.:thumbs_up


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## Takeum

i shot the Xforce and almost peeled the skin off my forearm,,, second shot wasn;t much better as the string actually came back this time and hit my thumb,,, THis bow is fast,, But is speed worth all that pain? I'd much rather have a bow with a taller braceheight,, especially when the bow shoots in the mid 300's..... As far as vibration,, No different then half the bows out there really,, I guess thats a tall order for the likes of PSE though,, I did like their 2005 Illusion,, I hear the 2007 is much better then the 2006 thank God,,,


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## john09040

*ttt*

It may not be as pronounced in my short draw with a short powerstroke.I dont think its by no means a miracle bow.I dont see a reason to shoot a low brace height if you have a longer draw.If I had a 30" draw I would be all over a conquest apex.:thumbs_up


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## 2cold1

I used to own a Supertec, it would jar your teeth out and sound like a 22. The X-Force on the other hand is a very smooth quiet bow and the one I shot didn't even have any silencing material or stabilizer on it. As far as string slap if you are shooting the correct draw length and have correct form, that is definately not an issue, and I have *disliked* PSE for the past 20 years!


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## Andreas

It would be interesting to see some a hi-speed footage of the x-force in action to see if the theory is correct. If so, the whole brace height specifications should be changed to real or dynamic brace height to get a somewhat correct information.


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## trimantrekokc

Takeum said:


> i shot the Xforce and almost peeled the skin off my forearm,,, second shot wasn;t much better as the string actually came back this time and hit my thumb,,, THis bow is fast,, But is speed worth all that pain? I'd much rather have a bow with a taller braceheight,, especially when the bow shoots in the mid 300's..... As far as vibration,, No different then half the bows out there really,, I guess thats a tall order for the likes of PSE though,, I did like their 2005 Illusion,, I hear the 2007 is much better then the 2006 thank God,,,


2 words come to mind with you hitting your arm...bad form....


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## HC Archery

trimantrekokc said:


> 2 words come to mind with you hitting your arm...bad form....


*Two more..... draw too long and you really can stop the arm striking with a STS System as well.*

:cocktail:


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## archerdad

where di my rubber boots go??:zip: lol ...


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## MIKEY CUSTOM-G

*check this out*

okay i see there are a few who are sort of like on the fence and maybe not fully understanding whats going on. here is a link to a video of the x-force in action up against a couple awesome bows. the x-force holds its own in every department,,,except one,,,SPEED. in SPEED ????? it blows the cover off the ball like i have never seen. you HAVE to SEE this whole video to fully grasp the innovation being done here with this bow. check it out and tell me what you see !!!!


http://www.greatoutdoorsok.com/


the video is on the bottom portion of the link....click it and wonder in amazement....:darkbeer:


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## TAYLOR CO.

Takeum said:


> i shot the Xforce and almost peeled the skin off my forearm,,, second shot wasn;t much better as the string actually came back this time and hit my thumb,,, THis bow is fast,, But is speed worth all that pain? I'd much rather have a bow with a taller braceheight,, especially when the bow shoots in the mid 300's..... As far as vibration,, No different then half the bows out there really,, I guess thats a tall order for the likes of PSE though,, I did like their 2005 Illusion,, I hear the 2007 is much better then the 2006 thank God,,,


Trying to figure out how the string went around the cable guard and rest and hit you in the thumb  Yes I would also say bad form or waaay too much hand in the bow. 
A friend of mine that has a 27.5" DL Shot my X-F last saturday set on 29" DL and did not hit his arm..definitely didn't hit his thumb


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## TXHillCountry

Takeum said:


> i shot the Xforce and almost peeled the skin off my forearm,,, second shot wasn;t much better as the string actually came back this time and hit my thumb,,, THis bow is fast,, But is speed worth all that pain? I'd much rather have a bow with a taller braceheight,, especially when the bow shoots in the mid 300's..... As far as vibration,, No different then half the bows out there really,, I guess thats a tall order for the likes of PSE though,, I did like their 2005 Illusion,, I hear the 2007 is much better then the 2006 thank God,,,


I have been shooting this bow for almost 2 weeks now. I have had some trouble with some bows in the past getting some string slap. Just a couple out of the 5-6 bows I have owned in the last 2-3 years.

With teh x-force I have had one shot that hit my arm in over 200-300 shots so far and I barely felt it and you could barely see it on my bare arm. 

Every bow is going to fit everyone differently so I have no doubt that some will have this issue. However, if you think that you can't shoot this bow because of this your really should shoot it first to decide. It is a pretty amazing bow in my opinion.


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## J-Daddy

I knew Mickey would have to have one sooner or later...Glad you like it bro.


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## chuckwoodward

PSe started this short BH 2 years ago with the Mach X and the AR Velocity. I swore I would never own one because they were UGLY! I got a Velocity a few weeks back on trade for a Bowtech. I figured why not set it up and shoot it. I'm impressed!! It's fast, smooth and accurate. I've shot Bowtechs, the new Fred Bear line and older PSE/AR bows. I nevrer slapped my arm or torqued this bow. I never would have even tried this bow, but am glad I did. It's a REAL SHOOTER.


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## NRA republican

I shot a 70#, 29" X-force today with supposedly 350 gr arrows. The valley is very short--feels like about 1/8". That should be no problem with correct draw length & pulling to activate release. Grip is very narrow for reduced torque. Arrow shelf is v shaped making proper hand position easier. Berger button hole is quite low which should help accuracy. Arrow was hitting target so fast at 20 yards, I couldn't differientiate noise from bow from arrow hitting target noise. Per the PSE video, it (without string silencers) makes only very slightly more noise than a Mathews Drenalin. So, it appears, no string silencers needed to make a non-string jumping whitetail hunting bow. With no stabilizer on the bow, it did have some hand shock & vibration (I've never shot a bow that didn't have some). IMO, adding an STS would probably make remaining vibration & noise almost nonexistent.
I asked another PSE dealer how the 6" brace height can provide target bow accuracy. He mentioned some words to the effect of: limb tips move toward shooter when shot; less lock time; faster--less time for shooter interference; string travels forward of brace height less.
I think PSE hit a home run with this bow. :thumbs_up I wonder how this bow would perform with perimeter weighted, oversized binary cams.


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## ozarkmtnhunter

I shot the x force at 29" 60lb. Did not weigh arrow but it was slightly over 5 gr per pound I think. We were getting 336 fps out of it consistantly . Very little hand shock and noise. Did not move in hand when shot. The string never hit my arm but when my buddy shot it he got a big ol monkey bump on his arm. He palms the grip a lot more than I do.
All in all it was smoking fast and seemed like a very accurate bow.


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## MIKEY CUSTOM-G

*noticed something*

i see that people who are having an open mind,,,,and being so close minded to bow company specifics,,,,,and people who have a mind set of an "archer" not a "so and so company shooter",,,and who by the way might not have been GIVEN a blessed penny by the company they are so loyal to i might add..... here i SEE that when you shoot this new style bow,,,,,you just CANNOT argue against its performance per dollar. i mean how could you ????? lets look at this objectively. are there any mathews switchback lovers out there such as myself ??? or switchie xt's,,,,or drenanlines,,,,or hoyt trykon lovers. i know you guys are out there. i am one myself. matter a fact i love many different bows,,,,,i try hard to be open minded to whatever bow gives me my most bang for the buck. historically in my arching life of 37 years,,,,its been pse,,,i admit that. i do and have owned a majority of pse bows in my life,,,,in the recent 10-12 years especially. i was a shooter of hoyt bow for many years and LOVED that bow !!!! i loved my pro-line cr41,,,and my favorite bow of all time might be the blue mountain wolverine my brother gave to me. i shot the SNOT out of it and harvested so many wild boar with it,,,,i lost count when it went over 100. when i bought the mathews legacy,,,,,i bought TWO of them at the same time !!!! why ??? i thought it was a HUGE break thru,,,it was,,,,the string suppressors and the cable guide rollers,,,,and the bow shot fast for a single cam with ZERO shock. it was the BOMB!!! it still is a VIABLE hunting bow,,,,,make no mistake !!!! the mathews lx ??? to me it was a legacy on steroids,,,,,less brace,,,bigger cam.... the switch ??? hey,,,an improvement over the legacy,,,smooth draw,,,,great speed,,,quiet as a mouse,,,shock free. the hoyt razortec ??? man what a nice shooter that bow was too !!!! my point is this.....ALL these bows ROCK !!!! i have harvested wild boar and deer with them all.... however,,,,when you stack them all up against the x-force,,,you cannot differentiate them from one another... they ALL will work PERFECTLY if set up well and you are accurate with them in the woods. however this is where you can draw the LINE to SEPARATE the bows aforementioned.......SPEED. we also know that ultimately speed WILL translate into KINETIC ENERGY. so the difference with the x-force in comparison to all these AWESOME other bows,,,many of which i STILL own btw,,,,,is that pound for pound of draw weight,,,,,i get more speed and translate more kinetic enery from the x-force in comparison to the others. how can i argue with that ????i mena check this out.... my 83 pound custom-g bow gives me around 92 pounds of kinetic energy. i can come real close to that drawing 70 pounds with a x-force !!!!thats a BARGAIN !!!! i am giving up NOTHING extra for it either. what i mean is,,,,i am not giving up hand shock,bow jump,string slap,sound,vibration,or any other malady you can in past times associate with higher speed !!!!! that part of the EQUATION has been KILLED !!!! pse KILLED the trade offs for speed increase !!!! we should be doing cart wheels over this !!! the BETTER news is this fellas....we are seeing archery break thru RIGHT NOW before our eyes..... how long do you feel it will take mathews,bowtech,and hoyt to figure out this ingredient ????? not LONG !!!! so SOON ALL bows will be doing this !!! praise GOD !!! 1 pin for out to 40 yards ???? YES !!!! its here......catch the wave !!!! amen !!!! lets drink to that !!!! :darkbeer: :darkbeer: :darkbeer: :darkbeer: :darkbeer: :darkbeer: :darkbeer: :darkbeer: :darkbeer: :darkbeer: :darkbeer:


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## bbaumer

Just watched the X-Force Challenge videos on www.pse-archery.com.

I have come to the immediate conclusion I will NOT own a PSE product no matter how good the bows are or are not.

PSE is misrepresenting the other bows by making mods to them before testing. At least they had the decency to mention it. Also, they are slanting the test by not comparing speed bow for speed bow either. What a joke. Why didn't they just choose a Reflex Caribou to test against if they are gonna make random comparisons.

Also, who the flip hunts with a 350 gr. arrow at 70lb or a 300gr arrow at 60lb? 3D sure average hunter? Nah. I expect most hunters are shooting Terminators, Maximas or Terminator lites from Wal-Mart - all much heavier than 5gr/lb with a point. In fact, at 60lb 78% of AT'er are using arrows heavier than 300gr based on this poll: http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=448351&highlight=arrow+face That effects noise on the shot as well and therefore their sound test. 

Hey PSE, get a Vulcan, put the string shox back on it like it comes from the factory and use a 450gr hunting arrow, move your targets further back so-as not to get the impact noise then test sound, speed etc. You must take your potential customers for fools.

Sheesh.


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## Harperman

Firstly..I have not ever owned a PSE bow, nor do I plan on it....Second...I am a finger shooter, so I dont have a dog in this fight, becuase I cant see that a PSE X-Force could be shot very well , if at all, by a finger shooter...that being said, there a several archers shooting the X-Force at the bowshop that I go to....These X-force bows are quiet, and as shock-free as about any other good bow available today...The folks that shoot them shoot them very accurately, and the bows are as fast as PSE claims them to be...They are also very reasonably priced, and as others have mentioned, it is a FAST "Hunting" bow, not a camo "Speed-Bow"....If I shot with a release aid, I would allready own one...For the record, I shoot Mathews, and Hoyt bows, and have never figured PSE to be a top-shelf bow compared to Hoyt, or Mathews....I think that PSE has built some very nice bows in the last decade, and in the last 4-5 years, has put themselves in the same position as Hoyt, and Mathews and Bowtech...I am waiting for PSE, or someone to come out with a similar bow to the X-Force, but with a 40" a-t-a, and a 7" plus brace height...Having a 40" bow that would shoot an I.B.O. weight arrow, at 300 f.p.s., at 28" would be awesome...Take Care....Harperman


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## Andreas

bbaumer said:


> Just watched the X-Force Challenge videos on www.pse-archery.com.
> 
> I have come to the immediate conclusion I will NOT own a PSE product no matter how good the bows are or are not.
> 
> PSE is misrepresenting the other bows by making mods to them before testing. At least they had the decency to mention it. Also, they are slanting the test by not comparing speed bow for speed bow either. What a joke. Why didn't they just choose a Reflex Caribou to test against if they are gonna make random comparisons.
> 
> Also, who the flip hunts with a 350 gr. arrow at 70lb or a 300gr arrow at 60lb? 3D sure average hunter? Nah. I expect most hunters are shooting Terminators, Maximas or Terminator lites from Wal-Mart - all much heavier than 5gr/lb with a point. In fact, at 60lb 78% of AT'er are using arrows heavier than 300gr based on this poll: http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=448351&highlight=arrow+face That effects noise on the shot as well and therefore their sound test.
> 
> Hey PSE, get a Vulcan, put the string shox back on it like it comes from the factory and use a 450gr hunting arrow, move your targets further back so-as not to get the impact noise then test sound, speed etc. You must take your potential customers for fools.
> 
> Sheesh.



String silencers aren't really known for increasing speed. Do you think they should be on for the speed testing as well? No matter what, there would have been arguments about not removing things from the string if they didn't. There's always people yelling instead of taking the challange. Any bow company is free to do this tests all over again if they like. Ask yourself why no one haven't....


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## hitchhiker

MIKEY CUSTOM-G said:


> http://www.greatoutdoorsok.com/
> 
> 
> the video is on the bottom portion of the link....click it and wonder in amazement....:darkbeer:




The video is very impressive, wish a shop around here had one to test. What is MSRP on this baby by the way? Only thing I would like to see is the same test's with the bow being exactly stock...not with all the vibration reducers taking off.


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## bbaumer

Andreas said:


> Any bow company is free to do this tests all over again if they like. Ask yourself why no one haven't....


I guess we'll have to wait for the AT 2007 Face-off results as the PSE test is pretty useless without objectivity. What did they prove? A lower brace height bow with more radical force draw curve is faster than a smooth draw higher brace height bow? Or just that a fast PSE bow is quieter than the competition when some of the factory installed silencers from the competition are removed first?

I found it interesting that in numerous posts about the Vectrix on AT speeds are pretty much at advertised IBO speeds but yet in the PSE video it tests well below. Same goes for the Guardian. I also think it is interesting that PSE states the Vectrix let-off is 60% and 70% and the brace height is 6" yet Hoyt says it is 65% and 75% and brace height is 7". Check it out here: http://www.pse-archery.com/video/xforce/xforce_challenge.htm Who are they trying to kid? Did they fudge the specs on the other bows too? I didn't take the time to check. Did PSE make sure all the test bows were in-time and tuned or only the X-force? I also am curious as to why PSE removed the string silencers when they come with the bow from the factory that way. Why did they not choose the Vulcan, Allegiance w/ speed mods or Black Max 2 to compare speed, noise etc?


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## Harperman

I think that ALL bows should be tested with nothing on them except the bow, and the string, and a rest....This would be the best apples-to-apples testing, and would give an honest account for each bow as for speed, noise, vibration, after-shot stability, and bow "Jump"....Then it would be up to the individual archer to decide what accessories to load the bow up with...I know that I have shot My own Hoyt, and several others, without the rubber vibration dampeners in the split limbs....The Hoyts shoot ALOT different without them....Apples-to-Apples testing, done scientifically, with all bows tested exactly the same is the ONLY real way to evaluate, and compare bows...Take Care....Harperman


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## Harperman

bbaumer...I understand what Your saying, but what I got from the video, and what I KNOW to be real (in real life), is that the PSE X-Force is a very very fast, very quiet, very shock-free bow, that seems to be capable of being shot very accurately...As I wrote in My first post, there are at least 4 archers at the local bow shop shooting them, and LOVING them...if it means anything, one of the fella's traded in a Hoyt Vipertec to get the X-Force, and He loves the X-Force...He is about 5' 6" tall, and is still getting over 300 f.p.s. out of the bow...I think that too many Folks are hung up on the video...Try to get out and shoot one, then see what You think...Take Care...Harperman


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## bbaumer

Harperman said:


> bbaumer...I understand what Your saying, but what I got from the video, and what I KNOW to be real (in real life), is that the PSE X-Force is a very very fast, very quiet, very shock-free bow, that seems to be capable of being shot very accurately...As I wrote in My first post, there are at least 4 archers at the local bow shop shooting them, and LOVING them...if it means anything, one of the fella's traded in a Hoyt Vipertec to get the X-Force, and He loves the X-Force...He is about 5' 6" tall, and is still getting over 300 f.p.s. out of the bow...I think that too many Folks are hung up on the video...Try to get out and shoot one, then see what You think...Take Care...Harperman



I have not said the X-force was not a nice piece of equipment that likely performs as they claim. It probably is and I would probably like shooting it. I'm just a little disgusted at what they've done with how they've selected and manipulated the competition, which in my opinion is misrepresentation.


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## rtinok

No matter how they represent it in ypur mind the fact that its out does my xt at 70lbs with 60 lbs and I don't mean IBO I'm talking 400grs says alot to me. I own a mathews and now I shoot a PSE.


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## MIKEY CUSTOM-G

*msrp*



hitchhiker said:


> The video is very impressive, wish a shop around here had one to test. What is MSRP on this baby by the way? Only thing I would like to see is the same test's with the bow being exactly stock...not with all the vibration reducers taking off.


as far as i know the msrp is $799....i bought mine much cheaper then that and i was happy. as far as the test is done......i think people get the wrong idea to saying pse "rigged" it. its a bow VS. another bow. when you talk 34 fps faster,,,,thats alot !!!! when the bow is in the same area of quietness,,,,,that speaks volumes. so why did pse match up with a denenline instead of a black max ???? well which is a hotter seller the black max or the dren ??? thats a no brainer.... you always go after the other guys hottest product. in my eyes the black max is a peverbial speed bow. the x-force however is not a speed bow !!!! the x-force is a hunting bow thats REAL FAST !!!! i dont count the black max as a hunter. yes people hunt with them,,,,but not too many in the big picture. more hunt with the switch then the max,,,,like 10-1 !!!! the thing about rigging the test,,,,how can a test be rigged when its all bear bow strings ??? same rest,,,same arrows etc .????? those bows are simply not up to par with the x-force at this time. its that easy. admit it.. i do,,,,i am a switchback and a legacy owner. the x-force has a big decided advantage over them,,,,,at this time. thats not to say mathews wont come on and over take this advantage.....but right now the advantage is pse over the bowtech and hoyt and mathews with this x-force. its no big deal either. case in the end we as archers all win cause we will get across the board fast and quiet bows. if you who have been in archery a while like i have can remember back when darton came up with that lightning bow and a machined magnesiem riser. people were getting over 300 fps,,,,310 etc. the only bow that was doing anyhting like that was a oregon,,,,which ended up being reformed to bowtech.... this is like 1987 or so. then all of a sudden pse comes in with a g-force a few years later and then everyone follows in with bows hitting 300+ fps and with rather ease of shooting. the same thing will happen here today and in this age. all the bows companies will have "SHOOTABLE" 350 fps ibo bows. its just a matter of time. so relax and reap the rewards...


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## johnno

bbaumer said:


> Just watched the X-Force Challenge videos on www.pse-archery.com.
> 
> I have come to the immediate conclusion I will NOT own a PSE product no matter how good the bows are or are not.
> 
> PSE is misrepresenting the other bows by making mods to them before testing. At least they had the decency to mention it. Also, they are slanting the test by not comparing speed bow for speed bow either. What a joke. Why didn't they just choose a Reflex Caribou to test against if they are gonna make random comparisons.
> 
> Also, who the flip hunts with a 350 gr. arrow at 70lb or a 300gr arrow at 60lb? 3D sure average hunter? Nah. I expect most hunters are shooting Terminators, Maximas or Terminator lites from Wal-Mart - all much heavier than 5gr/lb with a point. In fact, at 60lb 78% of AT'er are using arrows heavier than 300gr based on this poll: http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=448351&highlight=arrow+face That effects noise on the shot as well and therefore their sound test.
> 
> Hey PSE, get a Vulcan, put the string shox back on it like it comes from the factory and use a 450gr hunting arrow, move your targets further back so-as not to get the impact noise then test sound, speed etc. You must take your potential customers for fools.
> 
> Sheesh.


Geez buddy.....when I "dared" to post a similar criticism of the PSE video re my post the "X Farce" I ended up being challenged to come to the USA and when I didn't jump straight away on a plane, like some dam fool, I got accused of "chickening out" and compared to a "crawdad"...whatever that is...but the anology was the same..namely being accused on a public international forum of "cowardice"..... so I guess that must mean your about to be "tarred and feathered"....or maybe you guys just leave the public ridicule and condemnation for your non USA contributors...mmm... or maybe I should just see the lighter funny side of it all...funny how I'm not laughing:sad: :sad:


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## TXHillCountry

johnno, I saw the other thread and it probably went a little over the top. But don't come here so sad and crying. You post something very negative on a product and then follow it up with several challenging comments and now you are crying that someone called you out on it? Same as bbaumer's post here. You post your opinion that is very negative. You have that right. But there are many that are having very positive experiences with this bow and they share their opinions as enthusiastically as you share yours. They enjoy the the same freedom to dish it out as you so you better suck it up!

Now, back to topic.....


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## MIKEY CUSTOM-G

*negativity*

i just cannot fathom how people would want to be negative on hearing a new bow has hit the market for a price that is inline with a higher end bow. to top that all off,,,this new bow despite its characteristics of a 6 inch brace,,,has great tameness in the hand and on the shot and after the shot inline with any of the more upper echelon bows out there today. however to top all that off,,,,this new bow shoots a heck of alot faster then the other popular bows. now is the negativity from people who spent money on a new bow only to find out that that new purchase is now absolete ???? (we can call this jealousy)....or is it because some people are "brand specific" buyers,,,,i.e. ford,chevy,dodge,toyota and wont open their eyes to anything away from their brand name choice ???? or what is it ??? what can it be ???? what would cause a person to deliberetly ROB themselves from being able to shoot higher speeds at the same noise levels,,,,and same ease of shot ???? just what in the world can cause this ???? stupidity ???? ignorance ???? blindness ???? closed mindedness ??? i am from the type of people who when you can show me the money,,,,i'll check it out !!!! pse showed me the money withthat video,,,hands down. bow to bow. all the tested bows are awesome bows. its not a knock on a mathews or hoyt or bowtech,,,,its an EXCLAMATION point on the x-force. the x-force has cut itself from the pack. its that simple. shoot it or not shoot it,,,,you CANNOT argue the facts that this bow rocks up against the competition of the big named bows....so buy inot it or not,,,,dont take pop shots at it because they are successful.....


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## TXHillCountry

I am surprised at how many people are reacting to PSE's marketing of the X-Force. I understand the disdain for some of it. It can be a bit over the top. Mathews has done this kind of thing for years. Did Mathews really invent the one cam bow? Was Mathews really the one to "catch" for so long? A few years ago a lot of people were really upset that Mathews ads directly pointed out the problems of Hoyt's cam and a half system and the purity of their one cam. Some thought Mathews out and out lied. I for one just had to shake my head at times but did I let it get in the way of the product that Mathews was building? Absolutely not! I have owned 4 Mathews bows in the last 10 years and I thought they were ALL great products.

Point is, don't get lost in the marketing or your view of the perfect specs of a bow, check out the product. If you don't like it so be it. No product is so good that everyone is going to like it. But don't bash it because you don't like the video or you don't like the specs.


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## Danoh

Then again- if you paid for a Bowtech Allegiance- you'd be crying as well when you realized that PSE is clobbering your favorite brand!


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## johnno

aboyer said:


> johnno, I saw the other thread and it probably went a little over the top. But don't come here so sad and crying. You post something very negative on a product and then follow it up with several challenging comments and now you are crying that someone called you out on it? Same as bbaumer's post here. You post your opinion that is very negative. You have that right. But there are many that are having very positive experiences with this bow and they share their opinions as enthusiastically as you share yours. They enjoy the the same freedom to dish it out as you so you better suck it up!
> 
> Now, back to topic.....



Did you REALLY read the thread...if so...on the basis that English is your first language...let me spell it out... at no stage REPEAT at no stage..did I ever make any NEGATIVE comment, suggestion or hint at any negativity in respect to the "product" namely the bow....only the video...so buddy to use your vernacular...start sucking !!


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## TXHillCountry

johnno said:


> Did you REALLY read the thread...if so...on the basis that English is your first language...let me spell it out... at no stage REPEAT at no stage..did I ever make any NEGATIVE comment, suggestion or hint at any negativity in respect to the "product" namely the bow....only the video...so buddy to use your vernacular...start sucking !!


I did read the thread. I tried to re-read it but cannot find it anywhere. Was it deleted by the mods?


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## Rinaldo2

Why do archers get so head up about a bit of sporting equipment, who cares its not like they are paying us to shoot the damn things. Other sports don't seem to carry on about what piece of equipment they are using....my football boots are better than yours because mine have a binary cleat which gives me an extra 2m/s over the 40 . Sounds silly huh. To be honest I have shot 3 brands so far and now that I like the specs and build of the X-Force it will be 4 brands. I only wish I could remove all the Logos from off my bows, why should I pay $1200 for a new bow and then provide the manufacturer free advertising.


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## BigBuck Man

bbaumer said:


> Just watched the X-Force Challenge videos on www.pse-archery.com.
> 
> I have come to the immediate conclusion I will NOT own a PSE product no matter how good the bows are or are not.
> 
> PSE is misrepresenting the other bows by making mods to them before testing. At least they had the decency to mention it. Also, they are slanting the test by not comparing speed bow for speed bow either. What a joke. Why didn't they just choose a Reflex Caribou to test against if they are gonna make random comparisons.
> 
> Also, who the flip hunts with a 350 gr. arrow at 70lb or a 300gr arrow at 60lb? 3D sure average hunter? Nah. I expect most hunters are shooting Terminators, Maximas or Terminator lites from Wal-Mart - all much heavier than 5gr/lb with a point. In fact, at 60lb 78% of AT'er are using arrows heavier than 300gr based on this poll: http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=448351&highlight=arrow+face That effects noise on the shot as well and therefore their sound test.
> 
> Hey PSE, get a Vulcan, put the string shox back on it like it comes from the factory and use a 450gr hunting arrow, move your targets further back so-as not to get the impact noise then test sound, speed etc. You must take your potential customers for fools.
> 
> Sheesh.



Come on man. That post makes you look stupid. The bow test was done with an editor from Petersen's Bowhunting supervising the whole thing. Also, the video never even goes into the brace height of the other bows. As for the silencers and arrow weight. Silencers will not increase the bow speed by 35 fps and probably not at all. As for the arrow weight, that is the IBO standard. Increased arrow weight would change the speed on all of them. They shot the SAME ARROW!!!!! The sound test was done at 20 yards and it was the same for all the bows. Besides, the hoyt hit the target softer than the other bows because it is slower.'
I understand you are a hoyt shooter. Good, it is a great bow company. But don't show your ignorance by being a sore loser. Have an open mind and test them for yourself. The X Force is a great bow and will prove it on the video or at your local range.


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## MIKEY CUSTOM-G

*danoh*



Danoh said:


> Then again- if you paid for a Bowtech Allegiance- you'd be crying as well when you realized that PSE is clobbering your favorite brand!


just where do i know you from anyways ???? you look VERY familiar to me.......lol....:wink:


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## trimantrekokc

johnno said:


> Did you REALLY read the thread...if so...on the basis that English is your first language...let me spell it out... at no stage REPEAT at no stage..did I ever make any NEGATIVE comment, suggestion or hint at any negativity in respect to the "product" namely the bow....only the video...so buddy to use your vernacular...start sucking !!


sorry johnno but the title "x farce" is a pretty negative way to start a thread.....


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## TXHillCountry

But other than that it wasn't negative....

I saw a note in this thread about the incorrect specs on the Vectrix on this web page http://www.pse-archery.com/video/xforce/xforce_challenge.htm. I sent a note to PSE. Hopefully they will fix this as I am sure it is an oversight.

I have never actually watched the video all the way through as it seems every time I start I get interrupted. Just watched it end to end and I don't get the issues that many seem to have with it. I guess I am looking at it through my rose colored glasses and they through theirs.

Case in point is the complaint about removing the silencing devices from the strings. 

First, they removed them from all the bows.

Second, the Hoyt group seems to be most offended by this. If PSE had really tried to do an apples to apples comparison they would have also taken the Stealth Shot and the Limbsavers off the limbs wouldn't they. Maybe the Vectrix would have been faster at the point but what would the noise have been? The alternative would have been to put limbsavers and an STS on the x-force. I'm sure it would have slowed it down but 32 fps? And what would the db meter have been at that point? The likely result would be an x-force that was still 25fps faster and even more quiet!

I don't normally get too wound up on product issues like this but I am befuddled at why people get twisted up over details like this and then cast a negative view on PSE and/or their product. Especially when they say they are out on PSE over these details and never try the product.

When I first saw the pics of the x-force and heard the IBO rating my first thought was to dismiss it. Who cares about that much speed in a low BH bow that will probably rattle your teeth? The ongoing commentary piqued my interest and I decided to shoot it. I guess I keep posting about it because I still can't believe how good it feels and shoots and does it with so much speed. Every time I shoot it I am impressed. 

If you are getting hung up on marketing details and the hype over the bow you are missing out.


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## TXHillCountry

By the way, note my signature. I also shoot a Vectrix XL so I am not a Hoyt basher. I love em all and want to shoot em all!


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## MIKEY CUSTOM-G

*aboyer*

i think me and you see it the very same way. who could care less WHO it was that put out a bow like this x-force.... if it did what it said,,,,who cares,,,,just tell me how much i have to pay for it. i could care less who made it. it happens to be pse this year,,,,so we give them their due "props" a bow is a bow,,,its not a brand,,,its not a way of life,its not a showcase. its a freakin' hunting tool,or 3-d tool....or whatever type of target tool. the x-force is this years hunting bow of the year. that means,,,its quiet,easy to shoot,,,(disregard that 6 " brace deal),upper end on price somewhat,,,but all bows are,,,,and mostly it is FAST. if you wanted a bow for hunting,,,what would be your criteria for "dreaming" up a pure hunting model bow ???? well for me here is what i always dreamed of for the perfect hunting bow

1. 350 ibo speed
2. still in the hand at full draw with a nice comfy grip
3. quiet after the shot including hand vibration
4. foregiving enough to be confident out to 50 yards with accuracy to be expected within a 5 inch circle
5. twin cams
6. smooth draw with a good valley and hard wall
7. and fairly priced

well with the x-force i got almost all of these,,,the twin cams no,,,the price ??? well debateable,,,,,the grip,,,so so...but nothing i cant learn to like because of all the other goodies....the bow is a winner. and you are depraving yourself of an opportunity to shoot a rocket fast,easy to shoot bow because of your own pride if you refuse to shoot one a few times....dont be depraved,,,splurge while you can and enjoy the bebefits of this break thru....its worth the gamble folks....


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## Rinaldo2

Is the X-Force a dual cam or a Hybrid like the Hoyt cam and a half? Do the cams come with timing marks and did you have to reset the timing after shooting it for a while. Thanks in advance.


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## bbaumer

aboyer said:


> .........You post something very negative on a product and then follow it up with several challenging comments and now you are crying that someone called you out on it? Same as bbaumer's post here. ........


For the record:

My post is negative. Agreed.

My post is not negative "on a product". I did not challenge what appears to be a fact that the X-Force performs as advertised. I even stated I would probably like the bow.

I DID make negative posts against the testing method and company behind the test, not the product.

Test results do not mirror what many AT'ers have found with their Guardians, Drenalins and Vectrixes. 

Specs on the Vectrix at least are misrepresented on the PSE site. That is a fact. Let-off and brace height are not accurate. The Vectrix does not have a 6" brace height. It is a so-called "more forgiving" 7". Let-off is 65% and 75%. See screen capture right from the PSE site here:










PSE chose to compare much slower and more "shootable" due to taller brace height models from the competing lines for their tests and then made mods to the bows from how they are factory shipped to test noise level. That is misrepresentation in my opinion. The Vectrix was designed with string shox and stealth shot. By removing them you have altered the design. Those are not add-ons. They come with the bow. As does the Vulcan. I think a more fair comparison would have been to compare the X-Force to the Vulcan as shipped from the factory. Maybe the X-force would still "win" depending on what is important to you, but at least you'd be being honest.

Also, there are several references to shooting IBO rating arrow weights for hunting. I submit to you this is also not true. Sure, there are probably a few folks out there who do use 300-350 gr arrows for hunting but they would definitely be in the minority. I even posted a link to an AT poll that indicates most are shooting much much heavier arrows. Read any Bowhunter or Bowhunting magazine article or even Chuck Adam's Super Slam or Life at Full Draw and I would hazard to guess, well not guess as I have read those books and numerous articles, that none of the big names or super slammers or just plain old experienced bow hunters are using 300 total weight arrows at 60lbs or 350 tw arrows at 70lbs. In fact, most of them talk about 450 and 500gr arrows even in recent times, totally discounting aluminum "logs". This is important as the heavier the arrow the quieter the bow. As we saw from last years AT '06 hunting bow face-off this DOES make a difference from bow to bow on noise level from lighter to heavier arrows. What I mean is the order of "loudness" from the test bows changed a little with heavier or lighter arrows.

Makes me wonder why PSE chose to misrepresent the specs, remove the factory installed suppressors and get much lower test speeds than published IBO on the Vectrix and Guardian when several ATer's have confirmed published IBO speeds for those bows. Also makes me wonder what else they may have done to increase the gap.


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## teacherboy

I've followed this thread now for the past 2 days. I can't believe the amount of whining from those opposed to the X-force. If you haven't shot the bow you really have no business commenting on it's performance. I haven't shot the bow or even seen it in person. I have watched the video and I really don't see a problem. I guess I don't know what the controversy is about. I shoot a Matthews Switchback but if the X-force works as they say it does that is great. It gives every other company a goal to reach. It will benefit all of us in the long run. I'd love for my Switchback to be that fast. I know we don't need the speed but it sure is convenient. Plus, if you can get it in a smooth shooting bow whats there to complain about? If you don't like the bow don't buy it. I understand the concept of competition but this seems unbelievable. Do you complain about others cars this much? :darkbeer:


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## TXHillCountry

bbaumer said:


> Makes me wonder why PSE chose to misrepresent the specs, remove the factory installed suppressors and get much lower test speeds than published IBO on the Vectrix and Guardian when several ATer's have confirmed published IBO speeds for those bows. Also makes me wonder what else they may have done to increase the gap.


I think the sheet only shows an error on the Vectrix, none of the other bows. You choose to believe that PSE intentionally "misrepresented" the specs. Knowing how long PSE has been in the archery business as a stand up company I choose to believe that this is a mistake. As I said, I sent an email to them, I hope they correct this mistake.

I agree that the bows not meeting published IBO speeds is surprising. I will tell you that when I bought my Vectrix the shop had to do some tuning on it to get it in to spec. Maybe PSE didn't do anything to get the bows in spec? My x-force was perfectly timed out of the box.

Regardless of all of this consider it this way. Let's say that the Vectrix had the string shoxs on and met published speeds. The X-Force is meeting published speeds for most people. Even if the shox quiet down the Vectrix it is still probably right around the x-force in noise and still lagging significantly on speed.

I OWN both of these bows right now (Vectrix is an XL) and shoot both of them several times a week so let me try to give you an honest opinion on both:
- X-Force is quieter
- Vectrix holds a little better for me
- Have about the same hand shock on the shot
- Vectrix balances a little better in the hand after the shot. It just sits there. The x-force slowly tips forward.
- Both have tuned broadheads well
- I shoot about the same accuracy with both bows
- The x-force is much faster. I can't shoot 10 yard gaps on my pins any more.
- I love the grip on the x-force. 
- Setup on the x-force was really easy due to some simple things PSE did like engraving marks on the riser and marks on the cams.

Just my opinions.


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## Glock17

Who cares about the X Force, its just a rehash of XI'x old monster hatchet cam speed bow (the "Velocity" I think) from back in the 90's, huge cams, 6" brace ht, radical riser, etc. I shot it a chrono'd it and its the same speed as my 2005 TurboTec with the same arrow at the same DL and DW. (Yep, its fast) 

Its another bow, if guys like it buy it, but it's not magic and the comparisons to bows in the respective companies lines that are not speed bows is a little silly.


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## bbaumer

teacherboy said:


> ......I can't believe the amount of whining from those opposed to the X-force. If you haven't shot the bow you really have no business commenting on it's performance. ...... :darkbeer:


The only comment I have made about its' performance is that is likely performs as advertised. I have made no comments "opposing" the x-force. If you are addressing this to me, please go back and re-read my statements.


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## Big Time Hunter

*ya da ya da ya da*

I will just continue to shoot my Black Knight Dually. Don't need any "Pieces scattered everywhere" for sure. LOL!

Just kidding. PSE is a top notch act. Haven't shot the X Force. Looks like an interesting design for sure. 

B T H


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## DMaverick

I really don't understand why so many people get so worked up over things like this in archery. I for one couldn't care less what any bow company is doing, or what they are claiming they can do. I also do not care who they are bashing or what they are doing to make themselves look better. It is no different than the big name car companies, or even politicians for the matter. It is all about the dollars, they will bash each other every chance they get to sell something, and that is just business. I say it all the time, to each his/her own. If you buy a bow because of an add in a magazine, or a video clip you found on the internet, you need to have your head examined anyways. There is no bow out there that is perfect for everybody. Buy a bow because it suits your needs, feels good, and shoots well for you. Don't worry about what the guy next to you is shooting, or what their company did or said about the company you shoot, because it doesn't change you or the bow ou are shooting. Do your best to shoot to the best of your ability, we owe it to the animals we chase! I think everybody's stress level would drop a few notches if people wouldn't take everything as a personal attack. It is just silly. Nobody is going to make you shoot the bow if you don't like it, so why get all worked up about it? I just don't get it.


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## TXHillCountry

*Specs*

Just got an email from PSE. They realized they made a mistake on the specs on the Vectrix and have corrected their website.

http://www.pse-archery.com/video/xforce/xforce_challenge.htm


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## teacherboy

It wasn't meant for anyone in particular. It's a fast bow, period. It either works for you or it doesn't. It just seems to me that this bow has people fired up for both good and bad. I have to believe that it's great for PSE, but in the end it will benefit all of us. It will make all bows better in the long run. :darkbeer:


bbaumer said:


> The only comment I have made about its' performance is that is likely performs as advertised. I have made no comments "opposing" the x-force. If you are addressing this to me, please go back and re-read my statements.


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## jason2323

most of the people complaining about pse x-force have slow bows anyway. they r those guys that speed doesnt matter. i think pse has a winner here, finally. the pse x-force is probably the second fastest bow out this year. that means that the x-force is going to be a hot seller. speed sells


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## TXHillCountry

Smoth, shock free speed really sells.:wink:


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## eddie lee

My take on a new 50-60 lb X-Force I have. I'm comparing it to my Ultraelite w/28" spirals.

The mods on my X-Force ran about 3/4" long, so I put 27" mods on it and they felt great...ended up being 27 3/4" draw. The cams draw smoother than the spirals no question. 

Speed on my Ultraelite at 28 1/4" draw 59.5lbs 304gr arrow= 306fps

X-Force at 27 3/4" at 60.0lbs 304gr arrow= 315fps

Both bows have Nathan Brooks B2 strings and cables. For me the X-Force shoots every bit as accurate as my Ultraelite but feels better at the shot, and the grip is awesome. Gonna take it to Bedford so we'll see how she does.

Eddie


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## Oregonbwhunter

*X-Force*

I had an oppertunity to shoot the X-Force today:59: and no question about it this bow flat spits those arrows out. I was a little iffy about the brace height but I had no problems with string slap I also liked the feel of the riser in the hand. I was really suprised with how quiet :shhh: the bow was for as fast as the arrows were moving (327fps) but there was some noticable hand shock but not so much that it would keep me from buying the bow. This bow was a bare bow with no string dampners. I think that if you were to put a rear string supressor on the bow that would be all you would need. 
All in all this is a really nice bow and if I had the money I would own one, but I'm not a speed freak so I wasn't impressed enough to want to give up my Switchback
Just a side note the PSE was set a 29" 70lbs and shooting my arrows (unsure of grain weight) at 327fps:flame: . My Switchback set at 29.5" 72lbs (same arrows)283fps No doubt about it the X-Force is a screamer:thumbs_up :thumbs_up


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## citysticker78

*slapped arm & thumb*

come on, slapped arm and thumb. try shooting your draw length. not everyone shoots 30" ya know. i shoot an old hoyt viper, my form isn't perfect, and my bh is like 5 something ". can count the number of times i have actually slapped myself. if you're real tall, look for a higher bh., your long draw will give plenty of speed. as for hittiing your thumb, i will pay to see you do it. sorry man


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## JavaMan

Glock17 said:


> Who cares about the X Force, its just a rehash of XI'x old monster hatchet cam speed bow (the "Velocity" I think) from back in the 90's, huge cams, 6" brace ht, radical riser, etc. I shot it a chrono'd it and its the same speed as my 2005 TurboTec with the same arrow at the same DL and DW. (Yep, its fast)
> 
> Its another bow, if guys like it buy it, but it's not magic and the comparisons to bows in the respective companies lines that are not speed bows is a little silly.


I've own a PSE XForce and a Hoyt Supertec. With my XForce at 67lbs vs 71.5 lbs using a 455 gr arrow the XForce is 296fps vs 289fps.

4lbs less peak weight and 7fps faster..

the XForce plain SMOKES!

I truly believe it's the finest performance bow on the market!


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## abowhunr

I have the XForce. I shoot it with the 30 inch modules and at 70 pounds and a 350 grain arrow. This is the same arrow I will be hunting with BTW. I put on the STS and that took an already quiet and minimal hand shock bow to a whole new level. I know it is not realistic to have it get twice as quiet and vibration free, but it is very noticeable. Check out the avatar. That is the kind of speed you get with this bow, AND you get all of that with a hunting quiet, accurate bow. A true winner no matter who puts their name on the bow.


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## chris skillern

they are coming out with the 7 inch model actualy you can order one now i think its going to be longer


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## chris skillern

i shoot the x force to 29 inch draw 350gr arrow 334fps its screaming very accurate and quiet i have the sts on mine as well ialso shoot a bow tech guardian its hitting 309 on the chrono i dont bash other co its what feels good to you every one has there preference pse has been around for 75 yrs or more they got to be doing somthing right bowtech is also a very well made bow theve all had there problems shoot what feels best to you


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## chris skillern

*apa black mamba*

was thinking abought getting one heard alot abought them if any one has shot one just wandering how fast and ouiet if it has anyhand shock or not any in fo would be appreciated


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## Prizz23

One thing that really seems dominant on AT is brand loyalty (closed mindness) and i feel that those of you who defend 'your'  brand and bash others with such fierocity are just hurting yourselves. I think its more jealousy and the sudden realization that someone actually designed a bow that out-preforms our brand new Mathews, Hoyt, or Bowtech bow that we were told is the 'Best'. I know it happened to me after i bought my Guardian. PSE has come out with a truly extraordinary bow with the X-Force. i'll admit i was very skeptical when i first saw the X Force test videos. But when i actually put an xforce in my hand and shot it, my skepticism went away almost as fast as the bow flung arrows down the range. Its not everyday when a bow that fast can shoot so quietly and with such little vibration and bow jump. Granted that straight from the factory with string silencers and everything my Guardian is quieter; i have yet to personally test the 2 side-by-side with them removed, i do not get the pure high power preformance that the X Force delivers and delivers it accurately and with little or no noise and vibration. It looks like there is a relatively new but experienced power hitter on the block and its here to stay.


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## revj

*xforce*

Well let me chime in! I have had 3 different bows from 3 different makers and I never wanted another Pull ,Shoot,Explode! I had a carrera and I couldn't begin to tell you the times it xploded on me, at least 3-4 times a year and I kept it 3 years! I have seen the videos and read the comments good and bad and my mind is NOT BRAND LOCKED OR BRAIN DEAD . Not hollering just didn't want to retype, I hit the caps on accident! I can't wait to shoot the xforce for my own self before I make the wrong judgment on it! I think from what I have read and seen I want one ,but the shot will either sell it or I will look at another brand. I know I want the smoothest,fastest,quietest bow with the shot
hitting where I aim! If by chance it is the Xforce fine, if not then all I can rightfully say it didn't work for me! BUT I will try it out and with an open mind hoping for the best because I like mikey want what is best for archery cause we all benefit from the best makers giving their best to push the speed envelope and keep it a hunting bow!!! just my 50cents worth  I think my experience is worth a little more


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## Harperman

I love Hoyt's high-end bows...And I have never shot a Mathews bow that I didnt at least like, or would be willing to own...I have owned a handfull of Hoyts, and I own a Vulcan right now...I traded in a Mathews Apex for it...Then I shot an X-Force...I loaned the Vulcan to a buddy to shoot, and I am now shooting the X Force ...These bows are everything that the advertisements (HYPE??) claim them to be...I do think that the draw lengths seem to run a little long on the X Force, I'm shooting mine at a comfortable 27" mod, and I moved the string to the "+" stud on the cam, so it's actually about 27 1/2" draw..I usually draw 28"...I was trying to buy an AR Velocity, and in a side-by-side testing done by ME, comparing the Vulcan, the A.R. Velocity, and the X-Force, the X-force is the best bow for ME...The AR Velocity seems a bit more stable, but alot of that seems to be in the angle of the grip...I HATE the grip on the Vulcan, and it is LOUD...it is almost as fast as the X-Force, but has more "Jump" after the shot, and thats with the factory "Stealth-Shot" on the bow...The PSE X-Force is way quieter, and has less vibration, and a better grip to ME...I like the draw cycle on the X-Force better than the Hoyt or the AR Velocity...Shooting the same arrows, through the same chrono, the X-Force is 16 f.p.s. faster than the Vulcan, and 25 f.p.s faster than the AR Velocity...with 1/2" shorter draw..(All 3 bows have custom Winner's Choice strings on them)..The Hoyt Vulcan, and the A.R. Velocity are 28" draw lengths...Am I a "Speed Freak"??...YEP!...Compound bows are SUPPOSED to be fast...But, what the X-Force ISNT is as follows...it isnt loud, or harsh on the draw, or nasty at the shot....I love the fact that I can shoot a heavier arrow at the same speeds as other "Fast" bows, and the bow just gets quieter...As a side note, this is the first P.S.E. bow that I've ever owned, and only one of a couple different PSE bows that I would own...I realise that this X-Force is a bow that requires an Archer to shoot it fairly often, it does take some getting used to (I cant explain that one, but I figure that some of the experienced Archers that reads this will understand)...I wouldnt trade this X-Force for any other bow that I've owned to date...I'd prefer a little more brace height, and a little longer A-T-A, for a "Target" bow, but maybe that will come eventually...Sorry this post is so long, but I think that the X-Force is a GREAT bow for a bowhunter/ 3-D shooter, and I'm sure happy that PSE built it....Take Care....Harperman


----------



## abowhunr

revj, don't forget to report back when you buy your XForce


----------



## revj

*xforce*



abowhunr said:


> revj, don't forget to report back when you buy your XForce


you must be sure it will sell me!


----------



## MIKEY CUSTOM-G

*well????*



revj said:


> you must be sure it will sell me!


you know me well my dear brother,,,,and my call.....you WILL want this bow !!!!:thumbs_up great to see you posting on line pastor....welcome back....


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## abowhunr

Yes, I am very confident that you will want this bow. I also own a 1998 Carrera bow so I know it well. I still have that bow although I haven't shot it in a long time. BTW, it never gave me any mechanical problems at all. The XForce is even faster than that bow is, but is so much smoother, quieter and shock free that you simply won't believe a bow can shoot an arrow that fast that smoothly. If you indeed enjoy shooting an ultra high speed bow without all the hassles that generally come with them, then this XForce will be a dream bow to you. I have been shooting PSE bows for a couple decades now and as far as the ultimate hunting bow goes then this XForce has got to be it. I had just recently purchased a PSE MachX to accompany my AR31 and after I shot the XForce I walked out with it also and the AR31 is now loaned out to a friend who wants to get into bowhunting. I am not some high wealthy guy so this was significant to me to shell out that much $$$ within a few months of shelling them out for the MachX, but man this bow was so darn nice.


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## revj

*xforce*

sounds good, I have a lot of confidence in my bro. mikey ,but I must shoot it to see and believe it! I am not in a rush to purchase cause all my ducks aren't in a row! There aren't even in my sights yet So I haven't made an effort to drive into town to shoot one cause I don't need the fever when there isn't a cure :ill: Thanks for the feed back on your luck with PSE! They do have good customer service once you get a dealer involved! revj


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## revj

*nock travel*

someone heard that the nock travel would not allow the xforce to be a long distance hunting bow . Well I don't advocate this long of a hunting shot as a norm this video proves that it will take care of buisness!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8MlzJDcOv8


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## jlene

*x force challenge*



bbaumer said:


> Just watched the X-Force Challenge videos on www.pse-archery.com.
> 
> I have come to the immediate conclusion I will NOT own a PSE product no matter how good the bows are or are not.
> 
> PSE is misrepresenting the other bows by making mods to them before testing. At least they had the decency to mention it. Also, they are slanting the test by not comparing speed bow for speed bow either. What a joke. Why didn't they just choose a Reflex Caribou to test against if they are gonna make random comparisons.
> 
> Also, who the flip hunts with a 350 gr. arrow at 70lb or a 300gr arrow at 60lb? 3D sure average hunter? Nah. I expect most hunters are shooting Terminators, Maximas or Terminator lites from Wal-Mart - all much heavier than 5gr/lb with a point. In fact, at 60lb 78% of AT'er are using arrows heavier than 300gr based on this poll: http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=448351&highlight=arrow+face That effects noise on the shot as well and therefore their sound test.
> 
> Hey PSE, get a Vulcan, put the string shox back on it like it comes from the factory and use a 450gr hunting arrow, move your targets further back so-as not to get the impact noise then test sound, speed etc. You must take your potential customers for fools.
> 
> Sheesh.


The whole point in the video was to compare the TOP SELLING BOW from each company, not the speed bows on the market. Also, all vibration dampening devices were removed from ALL bows including the X Force...this proves how quiet a bow is without attaching 500 dampening devices on it to quiet it down.


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## Cleanshot

Harperman said:


> I love Hoyt's high-end bows...And I have never shot a Mathews bow that I didnt at least like, or would be willing to own...I have owned a handfull of Hoyts, and I own a Vulcan right now...I traded in a Mathews Apex for it...Then I shot an X-Force...I loaned the Vulcan to a buddy to shoot, and I am now shooting the X Force ...These bows are everything that the advertisements (HYPE??) claim them to be...I do think that the draw lengths seem to run a little long on the X Force, I'm shooting mine at a comfortable 27" mod, and I moved the string to the "+" stud on the cam, so it's actually about 27 1/2" draw..I usually draw 28"...I was trying to buy an AR Velocity, and in a side-by-side testing done by ME, comparing the Vulcan, the A.R. Velocity, and the X-Force, the X-force is the best bow for ME...The AR Velocity seems a bit more stable, but alot of that seems to be in the angle of the grip...I HATE the grip on the Vulcan, and it is LOUD...it is almost as fast as the X-Force, but has more "Jump" after the shot, and thats with the factory "Stealth-Shot" on the bow...The PSE X-Force is way quieter, and has less vibration, and a better grip to ME...I like the draw cycle on the X-Force better than the Hoyt or the AR Velocity...Shooting the same arrows, through the same chrono, the X-Force is 16 f.p.s. faster than the Vulcan, and 25 f.p.s faster than the AR Velocity...with 1/2" shorter draw..(All 3 bows have custom Winner's Choice strings on them)..The Hoyt Vulcan, and the A.R. Velocity are 28" draw lengths...Am I a "Speed Freak"??...YEP!...Compound bows are SUPPOSED to be fast...But, what the X-Force ISNT is as follows...it isnt loud, or harsh on the draw, or nasty at the shot....I love the fact that I can shoot a heavier arrow at the same speeds as other "Fast" bows, and the bow just gets quieter...As a side note, this is the first P.S.E. bow that I've ever owned, and only one of a couple different PSE bows that I would own...I realise that this X-Force is a bow that requires an Archer to shoot it fairly often, it does take some getting used to (I cant explain that one, but I figure that some of the experienced Archers that reads this will understand)...I wouldnt trade this X-Force for any other bow that I've owned to date...I'd prefer a little more brace height, and a little longer A-T-A, for a "Target" bow, but maybe that will come eventually...Sorry this post is so long, but I think that the X-Force is a GREAT bow for a bowhunter/ 3-D shooter, and I'm sure happy that PSE built it....Take Care....Harperman


What is your setup? I'm trying to decide between the vulcan and xforce as well right now. Did you put an "STS" on the x-force? Seemed like the xforce had more vibration than the vulcan when I shot it but the vulcan does have the "jump" you talked about. I'd be interested to know what site, rest, etc you are shooting.


----------



## Harperman

CLEANSHOT...Hoyt Vulcan is a great little speed bow, as compared to the TurboTecs and other short, highly reflexed bows that Hoyt has made in the past...As for set-ups, I used the same sight, a Viper, and the same rest on My two bows,a N.A.P. Quicktune 750... and the A.R.Velocity had a drop away rest of some sort...I dont have an STS type string stopper on the X-Force, and it is still WAY WAY quieter than the Hoyt, and a good bit quieter than the Velocity..I do have one of the rubber "Bumper" type shock absorbers that screws into the belly of the riser, between the grip, and the limb mounting area... .For pure "Hunting" the Velocity might be the better of the 3 bows in My opinion, becuase it is a very easy bow to shoot well, and and seems like it could sit for a week or two, and I could still shoot it accurately...it is also lighter in the hand , or at least feels like it to Me...The PSE Xforce, and the AR Velocity need less stabilizer out front to get the "Feel" that I like in a hunting bow...The Hoyt seems a bit more "Twitchy", but it's still a great bow...At this point, I'm trying to figure out how I can come up with the $$$ to get one of the X-Force 7" brace height bows this winter...I didnt mention it earlier, but I'm a finger shooter...I hope that this helps...Take care...Harperman


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## sniperslayer

*x-force*

all i can say is pse pro eric griggs shot this bow at 2nd leg nat.triple crown in bedford Ind. was in 2nd after 1st day ended up in 5thplace he won approx.1500.oo he was getting 336fps faster than any other pro. this is the 1st time a 33"ata bow has ever placed to my knowledge in i.b.o.or a.s.a.3-d i myself have been to every i.b.o.world championship event since 1992 .i have only owned 1 pse bow,i will have an x-force before October 1st thank you


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## iron mace07

*mikey*

this is ken , from Larry s shop, have you tried the HCA Iron mace? much better wall, and doesnt have that harsh draw.x force is a fast bow , but the IM can get those speeds, and faster, and with there warranty, they can get well into 380's.Hows things in Fla ,Bro, been long time, you been slayin those piggies?


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## MIKEY CUSTOM-G

*my brother kenny !!!!*



iron mace07 said:


> this is ken , from Larry s shop, have you tried the HCA Iron mace? much better wall, and doesnt have that harsh draw.x force is a fast bow , but the IM can get those speeds, and faster, and with there warranty, they can get well into 380's.Hows things in Fla ,Bro, been long time, you been slayin those piggies?


brother how is your shoulder ???? so you done gave up on the AR bows and are slinging high country arrows now ???? well good for you !!!! i heard about this mace bow,,,but never shot one. i must say high country needs to show its a quantified bow company because its been in and out too much the last 10 years or so. the thing with the x-force is this,,,,,its fast,,,yes there are fast bows out there. its quiet,,,,yes there are quiet bows out there. its forgiving,,,yes there are foregiving bows out there. however how many bows have all 3 of these factors ???? the draw cycle on the x is fine. to me its still a "feel" of a single cam,,,despite it being referred to as a cma and a half. the 1/2 cam comes from making both wheels slaved to one another. its not a true twin cam,,,which would be a perfect idea to do. as for piggies,,,or as we kmnow them as wild boar,,,,,i have NOT been tracking them down too much the last 2 years actually. work is crazy,,,,and my lease seeems to have been deserted by hogs for some crazy reason. they are across the road mostly and don come over too much because of the dry ground we had the last two years. we are still in a drought right now. we are rationing off water actually ,,,sounds crazy but true.....


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## new guy

iron mace07 said:


> this is ken , from Larry s shop, have you tried the HCA Iron mace? much better wall, and doesnt have that harsh draw.x force is a fast bow , but the IM can get those speeds, and faster, and with there warranty, they can get well into 380's.Hows things in Fla ,Bro, been long time, you been slayin those piggies?



once again you find your way into another x-force thread and talk about the iron mace....are you and hca worried that much about the x-force that you have to try and chime in on every x-force thread with YOUR biased opinion...maybe us x-force shooters should do the same in the iron mace threads


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## jamb

*Xforce*

this is ken , from Larry s shop, have you tried the HCA Iron mace? much better wall, and doesnt have that harsh draw.x force is a fast bow , but the IM can get those speeds, and faster, and with there warranty, they can get well into 380's.Hows things in Fla ,Bro, been long time, you been slayin those piggies?
__________________
High Country Pro Staff
Southern Woods Water Pro Staff
Grim Reaper Pro Staff
Winner Choice Shooter Staff
Whitetail Obession Pro Staff 



POUND FOR POUND THE XFORCE IS THE FASTEST BOW ON THE PLANET!!!!!!! The shop I bought my Xforce from also sells The Iron Mace and the owner told me straight up the Xforce and Iron Mace set up the same the XFORCE will be at least 13 to 15fps faster . So after you blow 3 or 4 set of limbs because your shooting less that 4 grains per pound try shooting an XFORCE you won't be sorry.


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## sniperslayer

*x-force*

correction on the above it was 1st leg nat.triple crown,Bedford,Indiana


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## revj

*Ibo National*

Team PSE X Force made up of Adam Hayden, Nathan Brooks, Chance Beaubouef and myself won the IBO National Triple Crown Team Championships this past weekend in Nelsonville, Ohio. Adam and I were shooting X Forces, Nathan was using an X Force 7 and Chance was shooting his Mojo SD. We won by 19 points over the next closest team. Go PSE!!!
__________________
Eric Griggs


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## JustOneMoreShot

Nice Job! Congrats :darkbeer:


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## MIKEY CUSTOM-G

*following the steps of my teacher.....*



revj said:


> Team PSE X Force made up of Adam Hayden, Nathan Brooks, Chance Beaubouef and myself won the IBO National Triple Crown Team Championships this past weekend in Nelsonville, Ohio. Adam and I were shooting X Forces, Nathan was using an X Force 7 and Chance was shooting his Mojo SD. We won by 19 points over the next closest team. Go PSE!!!
> __________________
> Eric Griggs


my dear pastor brother john cormier has posted what has transpired at the ibo national. there has been so much down talk to the brace height of an X-force by many scoffers. despite what many of us have posted as to how easy this bow is to shoot irregardless to the brace. there are plenty scoffers who wont believe about this bow without actually shooting it. it appears these young men from the pse shooting team rocked out didn't it ??? i know there will be some scoffers who will dispute the scoring TEAM results. i can understand brand loyalty to a POINT. but we all should draw a line if we want to get more bang out of our bucks.....hey ya'll this bow can rock,,,,make no doubt about it,,,it rocks.

here's a link to the thread started by one of the top shooters in america,,,,eric griggs. this is a young man trying to separate himself from the pack of the very most accomplished shooters in america. would you think he would RISK his career as a top gun just to represent a bow or bow company ???? i dont think so. he MUST be rockin' with this bow so much in practice,,,,he took it nationally. that alone speaks volumes. the brace height hasn't shook him away. neither did his scores.....

http://forums.pse-archery.com/showthread.php?t=36730
:darkbeer::darkbeer::darkbeer::darkbeer::darkbeer::darkbeer::darkbeer::darkbeer:


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## Guest

IT may be short ata and brace Height... but It shoots.... no vibration, aims well....


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## ado250

Hmmm, you would think reading the above that the x-force has revolutionised the archery industry :mg:

Amazing what a few fps and clever marketing can achieve. Truth is though that really, the x-force presents a 3% gain in speed with a considerable jump in draw cycle aggression. Would be interesting to see how the x-force goes with smooth cams:wink:

No doubt a solid bow with great shooting credentials. At the end of the day, it seems like all the 'hype' generated is all a bit much when the reality is considered. By the same token, all the slagging and hating that's going on doesn't really seem to be substantiated. 

Another good bow on the market with it's strong points and weaknesses. Up to the individual to decide what is important to them.:shade:

Ado


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## quintme

*Sorry Dudes - Just Got Better!*

Spent alot of years shooting many different types of bows, specifically for hunting (Oregon, High Country, PSE, Mathews, Bowtech etc.,,) each time I changed it got better and better. I shoot a Bowtech Tribute and have a Mathews MQ1 for backup. I have purchased the PSE X-Force and after shooting it at the dealer site - LOVE IT!!! Haven't really put it through the test - can't wait to get in the field and really see what it can do. Don't really understand how anyone anywhere can put down something they have never tried.


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## ctbb

*PSE X Force 7 - So far so Sweet*

I recently purchased an X Force 7 (seven inch brace height). It is a bit slower than the corresponding 6" brace height version. However, with LightSpeed arrows and at a 26.5" draw at 70#, I'm shooting about 325 fps - (actually I shot 330 on the chrono with an 85 grain point where I normally shoot a 100 with insert) which smokes my Martin Shadowcat (and I'm a Martin faithful). The thing that really shocks me is that it's only 33" axle-to-axle. It is smooth and accurate - there's no doubt. It's the first PSE I've owned. So far I'm ecstatic with it's performance.


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## walleye rev

I have shot several other short brace height bows, and didn't like them at all. But the x-force is one of the finest and definately the fastest bow I have ever shot...........NO problems at all with vibration or hand shock......

Walleye REv...........


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## huntfish

*Who Cares ?*

This thread is suppose to be evaluations of the x-force. Who cares if they are bashing Mathews, Bowtech, Hoyt, etc.? It's called marketing and it works. I see guys come into the proshop here and order that bow without even shooting one. That is their choice. It's not going to make me put my Allegiance up. It's fast enough for me and puts arrows wherever I put the pin from 20 - 80 yards. So let's all just be friends and have a :cocktail:. Good shooting and heck lets get ready to hunt. Less than a month. Adios.


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## shouseman60

*x force*

well i bought one and gave it a chance, and i preferred my allegiance. just as smooth and quiet and only about 10 feet per second slower with the actual draw lengh of 28, where the pse was atleast a half inch longer than what the mod said. they are getting those speeds with an extra half inch of draw. the allegiance with a 6 inch brace and an extra half of draw would be the same thing. i felt the allegiance held better too. i sold my x force and im stickin with the ally and my apex 7. hope everyone kills some big deer this year..


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## Jabwa

Rumor at the NFAA Nationals was that the X-force limbs will be on some other risers next year. Maybe the Mojo (?)


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## jwm05

Im a mathews guy and i still think that xforce is one rocking bow. I think it looks alright... Anyway about the performance, great review, and i felt the same thing when i shot it, it pulls so smooth and is so smooth for being a speed bow. The grips on the PSE's rock. You would never believe this bow is forgiving when you were told the brace height. The only way to find out is to go out and shoot one. I shot one at 62#, drew so smooth, and with IBO weight arrow was throwing 332. Much faster than my drenalin, but im still none the less happy with that purchase.

Anyway, If i hadn't already bought a Drenalin one of these would definitely be hanging around. I think PSE made themselves a real winner with this bow.


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## eshorebwhntr

bbaumer said:


> Just watched the X-Force Challenge videos on www.pse-archery.com.
> 
> I have come to the immediate conclusion I will NOT own a PSE product no matter how good the bows are or are not.
> 
> PSE is misrepresenting the other bows by making mods to them before testing. At least they had the decency to mention it. Also, they are slanting the test by not comparing speed bow for speed bow either. What a joke. Why didn't they just choose a Reflex Caribou to test against if they are gonna make random comparisons.
> 
> Also, who the flip hunts with a 350 gr. arrow at 70lb or a 300gr arrow at 60lb? 3D sure average hunter? Nah. I expect most hunters are shooting Terminators, Maximas or Terminator lites from Wal-Mart - all much heavier than 5gr/lb with a point. In fact, at 60lb 78% of AT'er are using arrows heavier than 300gr based on this poll: http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=448351&highlight=arrow+face That effects noise on the shot as well and therefore their sound test.
> 
> Hey PSE, get a Vulcan, put the string shox back on it like it comes from the factory and use a 450gr hunting arrow, move your targets further back so-as not to get the impact noise then test sound, speed etc. You must take your potential customers for fools.
> 
> Sheesh.


could not have said it better myself.....in my opinion if a bow is good, the best advertising is word of mouth.....and why is everyone so hung up on speed? i've had bows that ranged in speed from 220fps when i started shootin' in 8th grade to a 340 fps demon i had a few years back, i've killed deer, turkey, hogs, geese, skunks, racoons, squirrels, etc. and never not had a pass through.....if you like the pse good, i've owned one and so has my dad.....we sent them back after the fourth collective bent riser and cut our losses.....yeah, no help from pse


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## xx78sss

*tuning*

I never saw any evaluation on how easy this bow tunes with fixed blade broadheads?

I never saw any evaluation on how this bow paper tunes?

I never saw any evaluation on how this bow line tunes?

Who is qualified to give an accurate and non-bias evaluation of this including test data statistics?

Is this a Vegas bow or a hunting bow?


----------



## tndeerman

*pse x force*

i'm by far not a pro or an archery genius but i shot the x force for the first time last week and i now have one in the mail coming to me. it was an absolute dream to shoot! quiet, really no hand shock, and SMOKIN fast. i just got into bowhunting and was shooting a fred bear TRX so of course this was like going from a pinto to a cadilac but it blew my mind. with all my accesories i think i'm gonna have around $1000 wrapped up in it by the end of the week but have no regrets. i have been eating ramen noodles for lunch for the past month to save up for this bow but when i introduce the x force to the big 8 pt. i have on my trail cam then i'll be eatin a lot better!


----------



## Alan in GA

*I'll just say,,,,,*

I'M GLAD I HAVE MINE~!,...
... and check out my sig. My XF hangs with some pretty nice bows. The XF will get most of my attention the next few HUNDREDS of shots......:wink:

Alan in GA


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## DFA

bbaumer said:


> Just watched the X-Force Challenge videos on www.pse-archery.com.
> 
> I have come to the immediate conclusion I will NOT own a PSE product no matter how good the bows are or are not.
> 
> PSE is misrepresenting the other bows by making mods to them before testing. At least they had the decency to mention it. Also, they are slanting the test by not comparing speed bow for speed bow either. What a joke. Why didn't they just choose a Reflex Caribou to test against if they are gonna make random comparisons.
> 
> Also, who the flip hunts with a 350 gr. arrow at 70lb or a 300gr arrow at 60lb? 3D sure average hunter? Nah. I expect most hunters are shooting Terminators, Maximas or Terminator lites from Wal-Mart - all much heavier than 5gr/lb with a point. In fact, at 60lb 78% of AT'er are using arrows heavier than 300gr based on this poll: http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=448351&highlight=arrow+face That effects noise on the shot as well and therefore their sound test.
> 
> Hey PSE, get a Vulcan, put the string shox back on it like it comes from the factory and use a 450gr hunting arrow, move your targets further back so-as not to get the impact noise then test sound, speed etc. You must take your potential customers for fools.
> 
> Sheesh.


 eshorebowhntr,
You have not paid much attention to this thread. 
PSE did not misrepresent their bow or any other bow in their testing. They said it up front, the X Force does not come with string silencers so to make the test consistent for all bows the string silencers were removed on all bows. If they left them on and added them to the X force it would still have been faster and quieter. Why is this so difficult to understand.
The X Force was compared to three other top of the line, high quality bows. No one said it was a speed test. They were all compared against 4 performance factors. They were all set at 70#s, 30" draw and a 350gr. arrow BECAUSE that is the industry standard for measuring speed, no other reason. If the test was done with a 450gr. Wal Mart arrow all the bows would have been quieter and slower, the X Force would still be on top. 
You and your father had 4 bent risers  You need to get yourself a real bow press....... or stop playing with your own bows :tongue:
Is it that hard to admit that PSE has a winner with the X Force. Read this whole thread. Much more positive results than negative. Look at the tournament results. Everything points to the fact that the X Force is a FORCE to be dealt with. :wink: Most of the negative comments I am willing to bet are coming from people who have never even shot the bow. Lots of great bows out there today and admit the X Force is one of them. 
Our minds are like parachutes, they work better when they are open.
May the FORCE be with you. :darkbeer:
DFA


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## Alan in GA

*cam travel direction on the XF...*

one of you posted about the cam direction [too many posts to look back quickly].
I think you described it very well. 
I JUST went out to check out the cam travel on my XF. It goes backwards if I'm not mistaken. I checked quickly, but I think the odd limb angle and prestress is now a bit clearer to me in how it works and what effect it has. NEAT! Looking even at my SB and Ross I can see how the cams still travel forward.
I haven't looked at this very carefully, but you do bring up a good point. I guess PSE must have had something in mind when they prestressed those limbs and cams of the XF that way!
I"m enjoying this topic a lot. I knew there was something about the [ugly?] X Force that made me want to get one and see WHAT IT'S ALL ABOUT.
Alan in GA.


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## Dub

Ugly bows....gotta love them!!!!

Beauty is watching them do their thing and stack 'em up in the X-ring or get bloodied up.

Glad you like the XF....wish they made one in my length!!!


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## tndeerman

*x force*

if you havent shot the x force... shoot one. then you'll want to buy one.


----------



## Alan in GA

*did,,,and did.*



tndeerman said:


> if you havent shot the x force... shoot one. then you'll want to buy one.


Did,,,did.

Alan in GA


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## Rinaldo2

Not a bash I shot the X-Force and I bought it, my first PSE and I don't think it will be my last if this what PSE will be bringing out. My only concern is the string set very ordinary my mate got his X-Force and on the second day the cable snapped near the bottom cam. I noticed my cable serving after about a dozen shots separated near the bottom cam, if they put better strings on it they will have a much better product. That being said I am still one very happy X-Force owner.


----------



## NRA republican

xx78sss said:


> I never saw any evaluation on how easy this bow tunes with fixed blade broadheads?
> 
> I never saw any evaluation on how this bow paper tunes?
> 
> I never saw any evaluation on how this bow line tunes?
> 
> Who is qualified to give an accurate and non-bias evaluation of this including test data statistics?
> 
> Is this a Vegas bow or a hunting bow?


I'm still experimenting with tune & cam timing. Tears/holes through paper have been very consistent. I consider that a sign of good tunability. I can't argue with the--it's a hunting bow with target bow accuracy claim. I prefer the cam timing simplicity of the Mathews single cam bows, but the speed, quietness, accuracy, shock free characteristics of the X-Force. I plan to enjoy the X-Force while I wait for Mathews to CATCH UP.


----------



## Ralphy

Rinaldo2 said:


> Is the X-Force a dual cam or a Hybrid like the Hoyt cam and a half? Do the cams come with timing marks and did you have to reset the timing after shooting it for a while. Thanks in advance.


 I just came from my local bow shop and I shot the X Force around 30 times and loved it. He told me it was the cam and a half and it did have timing marks laser etched in the cams. He said it's been shot over 600 times by himself plus any customeers who want to shoot one, and the marks were dead on. Awesome bow! Also liked the Ross Cardiac.


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## colterdufault

*X force*

Yeah for sure the Xforce is the real deal... There Pin Point accurate bows


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## johnno

Rinaldo2 said:


> My only concern is the string set very ordinary my mate got his X-Force and on the second day the cable snapped near the bottom cam.



Yep that was me...so wondering whose using what strings on their X-F and if there has been any noticeable gain/loss in fps. :wink:


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## kjwhfsd

watched the vid not impressed. Like its been said why didnt they test speed bow to speed bow. Oh yea why wasnt the Elite Envy in the test cause the would come in second. that was a pro comp. archer shoointg at 60 and 100 yards well I shoot that well or better with my old hoyt. Who needs a pro archer. the x force is supposed to be a accurate bow then why were his groups not that tight? I'm shooting pins he was shooting a scope. the other question is why aren't the top pse pro's shooting pse limbs and cams they are just shooting pse rizers? oh yea I for got there bows wouldn't handle it PULL SHOOT EXPLODE.


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## Alan in GA

*always...*



kjwhfsd said:


> watched the vid not impressed. Like its been said why didnt they test speed bow to speed bow. Oh yea why wasnt the Elite Envy in the test cause the would come in second. that was a pro comp. archer shoointg at 60 and 100 yards well I shoot that well or better with my old hoyt. Who needs a pro archer. the x force is supposed to be a accurate bow then why were his groups not that tight? I'm shooting pins he was shooting a scope. the other question is why aren't the top pse pro's shooting pse limbs and cams they are just shooting pse rizers? oh yea I for got there bows wouldn't handle it PULL SHOOT EXPLODE.


....Always good to hear from a Hoyt shooter.

Alan in GA


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## DFA

kjwhfsd,
Simply put, you don't know what you're talking about. The PSE pro shooters are all shooting PSE limbs and cams. 
Nice try :zip:
DFA


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## trimantrekokc

kjwhfsd said:


> watched the vid not impressed. Like its been said why didnt they test speed bow to speed bow. Oh yea why wasnt the Elite Envy in the test cause the would come in second. that was a pro comp. archer shoointg at 60 and 100 yards well I shoot that well or better with my old hoyt. Who needs a pro archer. the x force is supposed to be a accurate bow then why were his groups not that tight? I'm shooting pins he was shooting a scope. the other question is why aren't the top pse pro's shooting pse limbs and cams they are just shooting pse rizers? oh yea I for got there bows wouldn't handle it PULL SHOOT EXPLODE.


wow....your knowledge of archery is astounding.....

as far as where was the Envy? it wasn't out at the time the video was taken maybe??? or maybe it was getting sent back to the factory for further adjustments? Geez people, where do you come from? So you can out shoot a pro archer? I would like to see you put your bow where your mouth is? Maybe Nathon or Eric will invite you to the factory like Pete did the other guy on another thread? go back to your hoyt thread and enjoy your bow...


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## BradleyP

I have never shot a PSE bow that I liked... I still would never shoot one. They build the noisiest, most vibrating and gimicky bows on the market. PSE has been doing this for years and while I try to shoot everything they offer... I always smirk before the first release thinking to myself... here we go again with another POS PSE. 

But not the X-force! I shot the 6" version and had no problems with it hitting me. I shot it in an enclosed hallway and there was almost no echo from the bow. The arrows shot out of the thing like a bullet and I really didnt think it felt any harsher than a Bowtech with speed mods. But the greatest characteristic of them all... it had hardly any vibration and Im super picking on that aspect. Nothing bugs me more than feeling vibrations in my hand upon release. I give the X-force two thumbs up.. hell Id give it 10 thumbs up if I had that many. PSE is finally back in the game with that bow. Now they just need to get a better camo dipping process... that blurry mossy oak dip looks really cheap(same dip as on their Novas) and theyve been running with it for FAR too long.


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## kjwhfsd

Sorry DFA but no they dont you might need to look at what the top PSE shooters are shooting. Pete wouldnt invite me It wouldn't do him ant good to have his new bow getting beat in every way except speed now would it. I didnt know this was only a PSE thread. Oh buy the way I shoot Martin and Browning.


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## trimantrekokc

kjwhfsd said:


> Sorry DFA but no they dont you might need to look at what the top PSE shooters are shooting. Pete wouldnt invite me It wouldn't do him ant good to have his new bow getting beat in every way except speed now would it. I didnt know this was only a PSE thread. Oh buy the way I shoot Martin and Browning.


i don't travel to all the shoots but the pic's i've seen for the IBO seem to be x force's all the way.....their cams and limbs are one of a kind w/no after market available at this time.........
i have no idea who you are but if you are such a good shot and would beat the PSE pro staff in every way but speed then why aren't you on the pro tour? do you make your living shooting bows? but since you say you shoot Martin and Browning you are not tied to a certain bow line so you aren't pro.....
btw- if you don't like PSE then why do you have a browning?


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## Ralphy

kjwhfsd,
Thanks for for the help on the " x-force evaluation" x-force evaluation". And also,making sure that we don't need to help you in your quest to be "Thee" Idiot of AT. One thing about guys like you, you just keep proving it to everyone, free of charge.
I know several people who wouldn't be caught dead shooting a PSE, and yet they love the XF. If it wasn't the fastest thing around it would still be a great hunting/3-D bow, but it IS one of the fastest, so just get over it. It won't be the best forever, there's always next year.:wink:


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## Alan in GA

*this line of posts,,,,*

is interesting. One of you posted about 'brand loyalty'. Only 2 years ago I got 'back into' archery again MUCH more heavily. I've been 'into' archery since my parents bought me a stick bow at the 5 and Dime maybe 50 years ago [I'm 56]. Lateyly I've been buying bows and bow stuff left and right. I think I almost started to be a 'brand loyal' guy, but I'm glad I'm NOT.
Just think about it,,most ALL the bow makers have geared up from the new engineering that seems to be coming alive in the last few years. Bows are really getting high tech, faster, more accurate, and unfortunately more expensiveukey:,,but that's ok when we get to enjoy the results of all the R&D going on what with the GROWING archery markets!

Now,,just think, you're a 'brand loyal' kind of guy. Really like the bow or bows you have from 'your' brand. Then,,,another company comes out with a super NEAT bow. But,,,,,[can you see where this is going??!!], your're riding around in your Ford/Chevy/Nissan truck,,,,and there's that NEW 5.7 hot rod Tundra truck you'd LOVE to try/drive/buy! Do you stick with 'what Dad always owned?", or get out there and TRY OTHER BOWS.

Check my signature,,,I guess you could say I'm THREE brand loyal?!
Ha!! I like 'em ALL.

Alan in GA.
Life's too short to be a brand loyal guy.


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## TXHillCountry

kjwhfsd said:


> ..... the other question is why aren't the top pse pro's shooting pse limbs and cams they are just shooting pse rizers?


Are you kidding...... Maybe you should read this.........

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=521598

Scroll down and take a look at the pic of the PSE Shooter's bows. I would like to know who else out there is making limbs like this and giving them to these guys so that they can slap them on their PSE riser.

Sheesh, the brand loyalty junk on here is ridiculous. If you like Hoyt better that's fine but don't bring this junk on here!


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## kjwhfsd

Aboyer So they all shot a x force at a tourny. Ok now look at the video from Vegas 2007 Duh. there is no company bios just the facts PSE hunting bows are ok have owned a few. There top of the line target bows suck. I have seen 8 that have have failed drastically. Not limbs breaking but limb pockets failing on there pro staff contract shooters. Just wonder how much they changed there bows from stock to shoot that comp? oh they wouldent do that.


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## TXHillCountry

kjwhfsd said:


> Aboyer So they all shot a x force at a tourny. Ok now look at the video from Vegas 2007 Duh. .


This thread is about the X Force. The X Force wasn't even out when Vegas was going on. 

I find this humorous. You complained abot video because they didn't compare the X Force to other speed bows. Now you are dissing them because the PSE pros weren't shooting the X Force at Vegas? Do you really think the X Force was created to be a spot bow? It is a speed bow that is very accurate. Therefore, the top pros that shoot 3D for them are shooting it and obviously shooting it well. And if I am not mistaken they look like relatively stock X Force's to me.


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## kjwhfsd

aboyer get your facts strait. I never said anything about them not shooting the x force at Vegas. I said that the only thing on there bows that they shoot at Vegas are the rizers. this is not about brand bios if you look i shoot 4 different brands one of them is made by PSE. So befor you get all huffy get your facts strait. I just said that there video was not a equal test. Not that impressive as in the quiet test 80 +dec. that requires ear protection according to OSHA so that is considered a quiet bow ok.


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## DFA

kjwhfsd,
Again you make a fool of yourself. You truely don't know what you are talking about. You add absolutely no value to this thread. So far you have done nothing but trash PSE with false information. :zip:
I'm happy you like your Hoyt but keep your mis-information to yourself. 
DFA





kjwhfsd said:


> Aboyer So they all shot a x force at a tourny. Ok now look at the video from Vegas 2007 Duh. there is no company bios just the facts PSE hunting bows are ok have owned a few. There top of the line target bows suck. I have seen 8 that have have failed drastically. Not limbs breaking but limb pockets failing on there pro staff contract shooters. Just wonder how much they changed there bows from stock to shoot that comp? oh they wouldent do that.


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## TXHillCountry

kjwhfsd said:


> aboyer get your facts strait. I never said anything about them not shooting the x force at Vegas. I said that the only thing on there bows that they shoot at Vegas are the rizers. this is not about brand bios if you look i shoot 4 different brands one of them is made by PSE. So befor you get all huffy get your facts strait. I just said that there video was not a equal test. Not that impressive as in the quiet test 80 +dec. that requires ear protection according to OSHA so that is considered a quiet bow ok.


Get YOUR facts straight. You said that the PSE Pros cannot win without using other manufacturers limbs and cams. I pointed out that they have won using the X Force (the topic of this thread) and once again I don't believe that other manufacturers are making components quite like these so they must be from PSE. You responded by pointing to the bows the PSE Pros used at Vegas were not all PSE components. So, I pointed out that this thread was not about spot bows. You may be correct on the bows used at Vegas by the PSE Pros, I do not know. Point is that this thread is about the X Force. Stay on topic.

Regarding the video......PSE never said it was a speed bow test. It was a comparison of their top bow against the BEST bows of the year from the TOP manufacturers in the marketplace. I don't mean any disrespect to any other manufacturer but would PSE have created much of a stir if they had faced-off the X Force against the HCA Iron Mace or the APA Speed Bow? I don't think so. PSE is in business to sell bows. It's called marketing. 

Lastly, I don't know about OSHA regs and 80+ decibles requiring hearing protection. I guess all I can say is that if these bows on the PSE video require hearing protection then we need to all get hearing protection because these are about the quietest bows on the market.


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## DFA

aboyer,
The bows the PSE Pros shot at Vegas were built from all PSE components and nothing but PSE components. This is factual, I was there. It never stops amazing me when people come up with this BS. 
kjwhfsd, do you really believe any manufacturer would allow one of their paid Pros to shoot anything other than what they manufacture ? Get real. Hoyt, Mathews, Martin, PSE, etc have won many top tournaments and they will all continue to do so. Vegas 2007 was won by Chance B. shooting a PSE ..... get over it.
I believe this thread was about the PSE X Force....:wink:
DFA


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## TXHillCountry

Thanks for the comments DFA. Was not at Vegas so I cannot comment on it but this is the first I have ever heard of a sponsored pro shooter not using the manufacturers gear. If I were the manufacturer and was paying the pro I guarantee you they would be shooting my stuff.

I don't get this garbage that happens now on AT. If you get excited about a new product and post about your excitement someone always has to get in the thread and get out their firehose to make sure you don't get out of control. What's up with that?  We aren't going to all like the same thing...get over it! How boring would that be anyway.

Now....:focus:


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## brianNGA

Who do you think makes your Browning bow you moron? Thats right it's PSE


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## kjwhfsd

Dfa sory but they were not all PSE components. You dont seem to know what you are looking at I was there to. How mant PSE pro's do you know and can shoot there bows? And BrianNGE wel duh wow you are smart do you know when that happened? probably not I think it was 2000 not sure though. Yes I do know where and who made my bows.


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## DFA

kjwhfsd,
You don't know when to quit do you 
Fill us in, what components were not manufactured by PSE ?
DFA


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## revj

Man this is the most ridiculous thing I have seen in a while ! A bow company makes a great bow that is fast, quiet, smooth and anyone who wants the bow with those features can buy one!! If not go sit in the corner and suck your thumb:zip: LOL REVJ


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## DFA

kjwhfsd,
Where did you go ?? :zip:
Did you get caught ? 
We are still waiting to here what components on the PSE pros bows were not manufactured by PSE. :tongue:
DFA






DFA said:


> kjwhfsd,
> You don't know when to quit do you
> Fill us in, what components were not manufactured by PSE ?
> DFA


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## jms375

Maybe he realized his ultratec has PSE limbs. (just kidding) I have a hoyt also. Back to the topic I shot the X-force before I bought my Iron Mace, it shot extremely well, I was not crazy about the short brace height but I think they now have a 7" brace available. I shot it with a rest only at about 10 yds just to see how it felt. So I can't comment on its accuracy but obviously its a awesome bow so if you don't like it don't shoot but don't bash it. Why badmouth each others stuff, we all have preferences. And yes my High country Iron Mace has barnsdale limbs before anybody tells me my bow is not all high country.


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## LoneWolfArcher

MIKEY CUSTOM-G said:


> the bow also came set up with a loop which i detest. i TOLD them no loop !!!! lol....i'm old school and dont want no loop coming done while i draw on a critter in the field.


Question related to this line. Do you shoot fingers? If you shoot a release you could have release failure whild drawing on a critter. Seriously, I don't know how people take such a hard line against a piece of equipment because it MIGHT fail. You'll never get all risk out of the sport.


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## trimantrekokc

LoneWolfArcher said:


> Question related to this line. Do you shoot fingers? If you shoot a release you could have release failure whild drawing on a critter. Seriously, I don't know how people take such a hard line against a piece of equipment because it MIGHT fail. You'll never get all risk out of the sport.


a release is a lot more reliable and usually has signs of failure.....i have seen loops last quite a few shots then all of a suddent the end pulls through....bam, bloody nose and bye bye deer.....true you can't get all the risk out but you can lessen the amount of it you chose to deal with


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## CTA

kjwhfsd said:


> Oh buy the way I shoot Martin and Browning.


If you own and shoot a PSE, as you state above, why are you bashing them? Do you not like your Browning bow? Browning bows are manufactured by PSE, if you were unaware.


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## DFA

Exactly...............:darkbeer:



jms375 said:


> Maybe he realized his ultratec has PSE limbs. (just kidding) I have a hoyt also. Back to the topic I shot the X-force before I bought my Iron Mace, it shot extremely well, I was not crazy about the short brace height but I think they now have a 7" brace available. I shot it with a rest only at about 10 yds just to see how it felt. So I can't comment on its accuracy but obviously its a awesome bow so if you don't like it don't shoot but don't bash it. Why badmouth each others stuff, we all have preferences. And yes my High country Iron Mace has barnsdale limbs before anybody tells me my bow is not all high country.


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## MIKEY CUSTOM-G

*no fingers*



LoneWolfArcher said:


> Question related to this line. Do you shoot fingers? If you shoot a release you could have release failure whild drawing on a critter. Seriously, I don't know how people take such a hard line against a piece of equipment because it MIGHT fail. You'll never get all risk out of the sport.


no i do not shoot fingers. i dont worry about a release failure either. when i draw(scott caliper release) i always draw with my forefinger pushing against the trigger,,,,,aim in and then slowly bring the forefinger over the trigger,,,rest up on it,,,and begin to depress little by little unless i get the ebee gebees and SLAAM that release !!!!!! lol....but i follow your logic. i just dont want no rope loop getting caught and in the way....its just ANOTHER thing that can go wrong. i am trying to cut back on things not add....loops are fine,,,but just not fine for me...


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## JHP230gr45

I shoot a Mathews but I had shot PSE for years. I'll never knock a PSE and if they are building a better bow these days then good for them!...Most all bow maufacturers these days make bows that are competitive and do a good job in the field or at the range when you need it. What's most important is how well the individual shooter feels and is comfortable and capable with.
Am I going to sell off the Drenalin just because it's it's 30 feet slower than the XForce and go buy an XForce instead?...NO!...Any bow above 300 ft. per second is a smoking bow whether its shooting 308, 320, 330, 350 etc. just go with what helps you place the shot conistently the best regardless if it's an X-Force or an old antiquated wheel compound...(well let's not go there )....Bottom line is where the arrow meets the target!...How fast it gets there is one thing but how smooth it's delivery is a case all by itself.


----------



## Rinaldo2

kjwhfsd said:


> watched the vid not impressed. Like its been said why didnt they test speed bow to speed bow. Oh yea why wasnt the Elite Envy in the test cause the would come in second. that was a pro comp. archer shoointg at 60 and 100 yards well I shoot that well or better with my old hoyt. Who needs a pro archer. the x force is supposed to be a accurate bow then why were his groups not that tight? I'm shooting pins he was shooting a scope. the other question is why aren't the top pse pro's shooting pse limbs and cams they are just shooting pse rizers? oh yea I for got there bows wouldn't handle it PULL SHOOT EXPLODE.


:fish2:


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## NRA republican

Here's a pic of 50 yard group I shot today. I figure I'm average archer.


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## archerdad

I'm more and more impressed by these bows.


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## HerdControlSpec

I purchased an X-Force in late April. After shooting 60 and 80 yards with it this summer, I sold my backup up bow and purchased a second X-Force.


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## Shaman

iron mace07 said:


> ...... and with there warranty, they can get well into 380's......


Warranty for one year on the limbs.
Big difference between PSE lifetime original owner warranty and HCA 1 year on limbs.


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## tpatrickm

i don't pay any attention to what the companies say all a bunch of bull. instead i research everything i can on the different bows. the last thing i look for is speed, if it's fast so be it. but way to many other things to look at. my current bows are the hyot ultratec and the bowtech guardian. very happy with both bows. just remember it's a great time to be in the market for a new bow. every company has great bows to chose from. good luck hunting.


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## Prizz23

NRA republican said:


> I plan to enjoy the X-Force while I wait for Mathews to CATCH UP.


haha couldn't have said it any better myself :darkbeer:


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## archerydreamer

JHP230gr45 said:


> Am I going to sell off the Drenalin just because it's it's 30 feet slower than the XForce and go buy an XForce instead?...NO!...Any bow above 300 ft. per second is a smoking bow whether its shooting 308, 320, 330, 350 etc.


I don't agree with this. 350 fps is tremendously faster than 300 fps. Gaining 30 fps is a very large gain especially when dealing with these speeds above 300 fps. I am no speed freak, I shoot a 2315 at 248 fps but still, if I was into 3D and could buy a smooth, accurate shooting bow that bested another smooth shooting bow by 30 fps, well, that is a large difference.


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## jjtac

I have a few questions for all of you guys that own the X FORCE.Now that you have owned the bow for a little while and shot it alot,have there been any problems?Do you still love the bow?Do you regret buying it?Do you wish you would have spent the money on something else?If you had any problems,did PSE fix the problem at no cost to you?
I am asking because I want a new X FORCE so bad I can taste it,but I usually wait until something has been out for a little while before I buy one(especially when it cost so much).I have went to the local bow shop 2 times now to purchase a Switchback,but I just cant do it because the X Force keeps drawing my attention.Any advise from someone who actually owns one would be very much appreciated.


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## CTA

I've had mine for months now, and have zero regrets. I'm getting 332 out of it with my hunting arrow, and I'm very impressed with the accuracy and reliability. I shot many bows before buying this one, and although all of them have their strengths and weaknesses, this is the one I took home. I have hundreds of shots through it without a hiccup. 

I have hunted with it only a few times this year, but did kill an antelope at 42 yards with it. The extra speed probably helped out in the prairie. If you want one....I say go for it. You won't regret it. I still don't understand why so many people who don't have one choose to bash it. Maybe it makes them feel better.


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## Alan in GA

*I like mine,,,,*

One thing about the XF, you will need a press that is equipped with special features to press it. The nicest one I've seen is the Last Chance Archery press, a few dollars over $500. 
That said, I am enjoying mine. I bought it used for a price that I am still happy with a couple months later. I have yet to order a VibeKiller for it and I believe the VK will make this bow about perfect. 
This bow is a lot of fun to shoot. Speed may not be 'necessary', but it sure is NICE when you HAVE IT! One aspect of this bow is the speed it STILL delivers for us shorter draw archers -27" in my case.
I don't have enough arrows thru mine yet to say 'buy one'. I don't know if I would pay $800 for a new one. I'll be shooting mine a lot more in the days to come.
Rating now: So far, so good! More to come.

Alan in GA


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## johnno

I really like mine........sold my 06 Ally to get it and thus far I have not regretted my decision. I can get the same if not better performance out of my X-F at 65# as I did out of my Ally at 71#...gota love that... heres a pic....:darkbeer:


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## Alan in GA

*is that?*

is that a Vibekiller on your bow?
I need something to dampen my XF string.


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## tpbscha

Just put a Vibekiller on mine and it kicks BUTT! Icing on the cake. I'm definitely glad I bought my XF, been shooting it for about 5 weeks now.


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## ovation31

i had mine for a few months and sold it. pse's warranty service is slower than mathews.


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## rpford53

The PSE bows that were shot by the Pro Staff at Vegas were all PSE components, except for the strings and sights. I love my Xforce shoots outstandingly well, very accurate, little to no hand shock, and quite. It is set at 60#, 28" draw and shoots at 313 fps. Oh I still shoot my MOJO 3-D for spots every now and then. Not in my signature block but I'll add it here PSE Pro Staff Shooter.:bartstush:


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## CTA

ovation31 said:


> i had mine for a few months and sold it. pse's warranty service is slower than mathews.


I haven't had this experience at all. After using the piece of junk Sonic press I purchased here, I sent my Xforce to PSE in order to make sure the riser hadn't been damaged. The CSP pins on that press were junk, and flexed a lot during the press. 

I called PSE, and received an authorization to return the bow for evaluation. I sent it, and it was checked and returned back to my home in less than a week. Their service department treated me very well.


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## MIKEY CUSTOM-G

*My X-force*

i can't complain one iota. i own and have owned just about all of the hot bows that came along in their time....from the pse g-force,mathews legacy and switchback,AR34 ram and a half,2004 pse primos nrg,pse scorpion nrg, are just a few of the bows i STILL own along with my x-force. so far with the x-force i have harvested 2 wild boars with DEVASTATING arrow hits....and i scored my first ever buck on opening day for archery a nice florida 6 pointer. it was a 37 yard shot that i used my first pin on ,,,,the 20 yard pin,,,and sort of "gap" shot to lower gap shot,,,and drilled his lights out because i was 15 feet high in a tree and the arrow stayed high. basically what i am seeing is,,,,i can hunt critters and use 1 pin for all my shots. i mean the amount of shots over 40 yards in my hunting lifetime are 2 anyways,......who needs to worry about farther shots ???? this bow ROCKS. how am i gonna argue with a bow that throws a easton ACC 371 arrow that weighs 435 grains downrange at 305 fps ???? do you want to get infront of that arrow ??? i know i DONT !!!! even with a bulletproof vest i dont !!!!! thats some kinetic energy for a 70 pound bow at 28.5 inch draw !!!!! i have never seen as much critter devastation with a 70 pound bow in all my 37 years of archery. a true test for me with a bow is on a wild boar. they are tough as nails,,,,and this bow RUINS them. the only other bow i ever shot with better devastation is my custom pse which is 83 pounds..... if you dont buy one of these bows while you are out looking for a new bow,,,,i say you are cheating yourself out of hunting pleasures in the woods....


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## jjtac

Funny you should mention that.Right now I shoot a PSE G Force.It shoots an arrow at 270 fps set at 65#.I weighed my arrows on my reloading scale with the field tips it weighed in at 439 grains.The arrow is an easton st epic 400.I dont know why I am worried because I am sure the X Force is a whole lot better bow than what I am shooting now.I just cant help but wonder......is it 800 dollars better?
One more thing.......when you say it shoots a 435 grain arrow at 305 fps do you guys give the weight with a field tip/broad head or is that the weight of just the arrow?


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## johnno

Alan in GA said:


> is that a Vibekiller on your bow?
> I need something to dampen my XF string.


Sure is and works GREAT !.....just watch out for the clearance on the cables...I had to switch the cable guard to get a little more more clearance.... :darkbeer:


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## MIKEY CUSTOM-G

*an arrow*



jjtac said:


> Funny you should mention that.Right now I shoot a PSE G Force.It shoots an arrow at 270 fps set at 65#.I weighed my arrows on my reloading scale with the field tips it weighed in at 439 grains.The arrow is an easton st epic 400.I dont know why I am worried because I am sure the X Force is a whole lot better bow than what I am shooting now.I just cant help but wonder......is it 800 dollars better?
> One more thing.......when you say it shoots a 435 grain arrow at 305 fps do you guys give the weight with a field tip/broad head or is that the weight of just the arrow?


an arrow is NOT an arrow unless its a ready to fly arrow......meaning it has all the components to it attached.....including but not limited to vanes,nock,inserts,cresting,and ofcourse your tip,,,whether its a broadhead or a field tip. its the total complete weight.

trsut me on this,,,,,the g-force was a JACKHAMMER. i shot one since they came out in the early 90's. my custom-g bow i had pse make is actually the cams from a g-force,,,which are maxis mn cams,,,,and the riser from a carrera which was the fastest riser pse had at the time.

i know the maxis mn and mh cams well. they have a DECIDED string slap on every shot. they produce some serious power and speed,,,but do it with tons of vibration and string slap. yes part of the equation to the vibration is the limb positioning. parallaled limbed bows have less limb flex travel,,,thereby emitting LESS recoil BACK into the bow,,,which tranmitts to the hand.

the x-force and even the guardian have some great inventions. the real inspiration to them both is to ELIMINATE limb travel. the guardian is probably the quiestest bow in the world right now. it stands to reason. the "bridge" thats incorporated on the guardian from the riser to mid point of the limb,,,,refrains the limb from flexing PAST the mid point of the limb. this then makes for overall less limb travel. this is why the bowtech guardian is the class of the quiet bows !!!!

i see one day the bow companies making a bow that only has the TIPS of the limbs flex,,,this will REALLY quiet them down.

so what i am really saying is,,,the g-force as great as it was,,,is yesterdays news. you can still EFFECTIVELY harvest game with a "G" no doubt. however,,,there is a new world in archery right now going on. technology is being advanced greatly. techs are designing a better lobe for energy absorbtion in the draw curve that propels more energy to the arrow then ever before. couple this with the fact they have now discovered that limb travel = vibration which = noise,,,,and they are making way better bows for us all. WE THE ARCHER WINS !!!! forget about the $800...thats a short investment for a bow that will do things you have never seen before.

bows still have reflexed risers which give back shorter braces which equate to faster arrows,,,that aint changing. its the other things,,,,,limb travel,and energy lobe absorbtion directly to the arrow that is cutting the mark for us shooters today.

my prediction is this for this coming year. bowtech has always been a fast inspired bow company since they were even called oregon bows wayyyyyyyyyyyy back when. they will begin to produce a lights out speed bow thats quiet as a mouse this coming year or next.

mathews,,,a great company,,,,might have too much pride riding on the solo cam technology that set them apart from everyone. however if they get with the program and develop something with a twin type of cam that stores tons of energy on both wheels,,,they too will make a super fast,super quiet bow. mathews is still the leader i feel in the archery business. right now,,,they have slid because of their intent to not move from single cams. this is tunnel vision. too bad. but matt is a visionary inspired by the word of GOD and i know he will make the move forwards.

so we as archers are in for some exciting stuff in the new few years. its sort of started with the x-force and the guardian. it will get better i am sure as time and experimentation further.

i'm waiting on a true twin cam with plenty of creep that shoots quiet and 350 ibo...then i will have what i always dreamed of. so this x-force is not my dream bow,,,,,to me its still not a full twin cam.


----------



## jjtac

Wow .......................................thats deep.However I would like to thank you becuase it is exactly what I was looking for.Thanks again


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## alwayslookin

*Baum*



bbaumer said:


> Just watched the X-Force Challenge videos on www.pse-archery.com.
> 
> I have come to the immediate conclusion I will NOT own a PSE product no matter how good the bows are or are not.
> 
> PSE is misrepresenting the other bows by making mods to them before testing. At least they had the decency to mention it. Also, they are slanting the test by not comparing speed bow for speed bow either. What a joke. Why didn't they just choose a Reflex Caribou to test against if they are gonna make random comparisons.
> 
> Also, who the flip hunts with a 350 gr. arrow at 70lb or a 300gr arrow at 60lb? 3D sure average hunter? Nah. I expect most hunters are shooting Terminators, Maximas or Terminator lites from Wal-Mart - all much heavier than 5gr/lb with a point. In fact, at 60lb 78% of AT'er are using arrows heavier than 300gr based on this poll: http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=448351&highlight=arrow+face That effects noise on the shot as well and therefore their sound test.
> 
> Hey PSE, get a Vulcan, put the string shox back on it like it comes from the factory and use a 450gr hunting arrow, move your targets further back so-as not to get the impact noise then test sound, speed etc. You must take your potential customers for fools.
> 
> Sheesh.


Did it.....I am a current Hoyt shooter (Vectrixxl) and I set up an X-Force 7 and a Vulcan......the way they were supposed to be set up.


Bottom line, the X (with one inch more brace height) was 11 feet faster with 2 less pounds draw weight and the true draw being about 3/8 inch longer on the X. 
The Vulcan is WAY smoother to draw, but the X is not unreasonable. The Vulcan is also easier to work on in a press.
Al in all, PSE is whizzin in a lot of peoples Cheerios with this bow. It and their 07 lineup is simply the best they have had in years, and finally comparable to the competition.......if not better.
It was ,by multiple accounts, much quieter, too.


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## chase

Ok, here's my post pertaining to the X-Force. I agree that PSE has used the power of advertising to promote their product. Archery companies are finally getting wise to Matt McPhearson's tactics of flooding every magazine with full color "catalogs" of his products as well as "paying" the top names in the business to "say" they use the product as well. Rage Broadheads also jumped on the band wagon with this idea and their expandables. I personally haven't owned a PSE bow for many years now, I just don't like their products...look, feel, whatever, just not for me. Last week I attended a local 3D shoot and afterwards I shot a few groups indoors with my current hunting setup, a BowTech Tribute. My 3D scores were pretty good at bowhunter ranges (out to 30 yards) but my indoor spot groups were probably 2.5"-3" or so at 20 yards. A friend of mine had a new X-Force and I asked to at least shoot it just so I can say that I did. At 20 yards using three of my own arrows I was amazed how rock solid I was on target and that each arrow shot was touching one another. The bow felt incredible and I shot it better than my own! I could not believe that a bow with the X-Force's specs actually performed the way that it had for me. The short version of this story is, I am now awaiting the arrival of my new PSE X-Force.


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## Omega

chase said:


> Ok, here's my post pertaining to the X-Force. I agree that PSE has used the power of advertising to promote their product. Archery companies are finally getting wise to Matt McPhearson's tactics of flooding every magazine with full color "catalogs" of his products as well as "paying" the top names in the business to "say" they use the product as well. Rage Broadheads also jumped on the band wagon with this idea and their expandables. I personally haven't owned a PSE bow for many years now, I just don't like their products...look, feel, whatever, just not for me. Last week I attended a local 3D shoot and afterwards I shot a few groups indoors with my current hunting setup, a BowTech Tribute. My 3D scores were pretty good at bowhunter ranges (out to 30 yards) but my indoor spot groups were probably 2.5"-3" or so at 20 yards. A friend of mine had a new X-Force and I asked to at least shoot it just so I can say that I did. At 20 yards using three of my own arrows I was amazed how rock solid I was on target and that each arrow shot was touching one another. The bow felt incredible and I shot it better than my own! I could not believe that a bow with the X-Force's specs actually performed the way that it had for me. The short version of this story is, I am now awaiting the arrival of my new PSE X-Force.


Now THAT says a lot.... great input! :darkbeer:


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## DanceswithDingo

*Ugly????*

They say a picture is worth a thousand words :darkbeer:


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## archerdad

that is nice...


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## archery ham

Very nice rig......good color choice. I like the grey that PSE has also.


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## Hereiam_74

Got my PSE X-force back in July. ... I'm not a great shooter, but I was able to hit the yellow centre circle 3 times in a row at 60 yrds also (just like in the X-force Challenge on YouTube). Surprised myself how good I actually am when I didn't know I had it in me.

And then I tried it at 90+ yrds... completely missed and lost my arrows. Didn't have a sight pin for it, as I only have 5 (up to 70 yrd) on my Trophy Ridge Matrix. Tried it several times and realized it was too costly so gave up.


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## Slice

I have a Switchback that I have been using for the past two years, I just got my X-Force last week. Both bows are great in their own ways. IMO I think the Switchback has a smoother draw and is easier to hold at 70# then the X-Force is. But when it comes to speed and impact on the target there really isn't any comparison, the X-Force buries the arrows. I shoot a 375 grain arrow with Fob's and I end up with a bunch of Fob's in front of the target and my arrows laying behind it. I get about 18 inches of penetration with my Switchback into my block target, but a passthru with the X-Force. I am getting 327 fps with the X-Force and 292 fps with the Switchback. Just like our kids, they are different in their own ways but we still love them.


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## trimantrekokc

Slice said:


> I have a Switchback that I have been using for the past two years, I just got my X-Force last week. Both bows are great in their own ways. IMO I think the Switchback has a smoother draw and is easier to hold at 70# then the X-Force is. But when it comes to speed and impact on the target there really isn't any comparison, the X-Force buries the arrows. I shoot a 375 grain arrow with Fob's and I end up with a bunch of Fob's in front of the target and my arrows laying behind it. I get about 18 inches of penetration with my Switchback into my block target, but a passthru with the X-Force. I am getting 327 fps with the X-Force and 292 fps with the Switchback. Just like our kids, they are different in their own ways but we still love them.


congrats.....keep in mind you could always back the weight off on the x to make it easier to draw and hold and still outshoot the switchback....


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## Slice

trimantrekokc said:


> congrats.....keep in mind you could always back the weight off on the x to make it easier to draw and hold and still outshoot the switchback....


That's like putting a govener on a Hemi. :flame:


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## MIKEY CUSTOM-G

*hehehehehehehe*



Slice said:


> That's like putting a govener on a Hemi. :flame:


sooooooooooo true !!!!! so if the draw weight is an issue,,,,there is always the weight room somewhere WAITING for you to show up at and bang some weights around....i hold 70 on my x with no issues at all,,,,,and i'm 5 ' 7 " 175 pounds. i guess the 300 pound bench press dont hurt neither,,,but to me its a easy draw and hold at 70 pounds....i only WISHED there was more CREEP off the wall like a true twin cam had in the old days. then i'd have my dream bow....


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## Nick Habes

*6" brace height or 7" is the question*

MY bow shop tech has had big trouble tuning the 7". They suggest the 6" unless required by the customer. So, I am now the proud ower of a 6" X-force.
Does this hold water?????????????????


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## Alan in GA

*Switchback vs. X Force...*

the SB does have a smoother draw,,,starts out light and builds, then has large valley that is easily held even if you 'let down' a bit.
The XF makes more use of the whole draw cycle and gets results of high velocity. The valley is almost non existant so when or if you 'let down' even a smidgen,,the power curve GRABS you and the bow wants to GO. It made me school myself on not 'letting down' any at all. I think this is called creeping and it's good to get out of the habit anyway.
My SB is a 70 lb bow,,the XF is a 60 lb. The XF puts out more speed at lower poundage.


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## NMP

Nick Habes said:


> MY bow shop tech has had big trouble tuning the 7". They suggest the 6" unless required by the customer. So, I am now the proud ower of a 6" X-force.
> Does this hold water?????????????????


Everything is exactly the same on the two bows except the 7 has one inch less reflex in the riser. They will be no harder to tune.


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## Sportsman11

*loud loud loud*

My archery buddy and i recently shot a 3d tournament and a shooter a target behind us was shooting the x force and we both agreed it was the loudest nastiest sounding bow we've ever heard. honestly we could hear him every time he shot and he was ATLEAST 40-50 yards behind us the whole me. i've also drawn the bow and its definately not top end bow caliber. i will continue to stay from pse and continue shooting my ross


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## Masheen76

Sportsman11 said:


> My archery buddy and i recently shot a 3d tournament and a shooter a target behind us was shooting the x force and we both agreed it was the loudest nastiest sounding bow we've ever heard. honestly we could hear him every time he shot and he was ATLEAST 40-50 yards behind us the whole me. i've also drawn the bow and its definately not top end bow caliber. i will continue to stay from pse and continue shooting my ross


I shot and been around the X-force quite a bit and I have never, ever experienced this. It is one of the quietest bows I have been around without a doubt.
I do not own one myself(I would if I could $$$$$), and I am in no way affiliated with PSE. But they make a fine bow, I would be happy to own one.


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## Shaman

Sportsman11 said:


> My archery buddy and i recently shot a 3d tournament and a shooter a target behind us was shooting the x force and we both agreed it was the loudest nastiest sounding bow we've ever heard. ..... i will continue to stay from pse and continue shooting my ross


I bet I can throw your Ross enough out of tune to make it sound like a shotgun.
XForce in tune is not loud.


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## Alan in GA

*thanks,,,,*



Sportsman11 said:


> My archery buddy and i recently shot a 3d tournament and a shooter a target behind us was shooting the x force and we both agreed it was the loudest nastiest sounding bow we've ever heard. honestly we could hear him every time he shot and he was ATLEAST 40-50 yards behind us the whole me. i've also drawn the bow and its definately not top end bow caliber. i will continue to stay from pse and continue shooting my ross


I'm going to get a friend to shoot my XF and I'll stand off at least 40-50 yards and listen. All this time I was shooting it and standing close I just didn't realize all this was going on out there.


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## trimantrekokc

Sportsman11 said:


> My archery buddy and i recently shot a 3d tournament and a shooter a target behind us was shooting the x force and we both agreed it was the loudest nastiest sounding bow we've ever heard. honestly we could hear him every time he shot and he was ATLEAST 40-50 yards behind us the whole me. i've also drawn the bow and its definately not top end bow caliber. i will continue to stay from pse and continue shooting my ross


REALLYYYYY?????? thanks for the good info.....

my x force 7 is quieter than my Iron Mace and about 15fps faster.....wow...i didn't realize my x was so loud....that must mean my iron mace sounds like a 30-06......

i'm glad you enjoy your Ross and i am glad your not associated with PSE in anyway.... :darkbeer:


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## jms375

Sportsman11 said:


> My archery buddy and i recently shot a 3d tournament and a shooter a target behind us was shooting the x force and we both agreed it was the loudest nastiest sounding bow we've ever heard. honestly we could hear him every time he shot and he was ATLEAST 40-50 yards behind us the whole me. i've also drawn the bow and its definately not top end bow caliber. i will continue to stay from pse and continue shooting my ross


Maybe you were hearing the echo coming back from that ross and thought it was the x-force. (just kidding) I personally chose an Iron Mace over the X-force but the x-force I shot was bare bow, no stabilizer or anything just a rest and it was still as quiet as almost any bow out there that has sound dampening stuff on it. Very nice bow.


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## TXHillCountry

That X -Force you heard at the 3D shoot had to be out of tune. A few months ago I changed strings on my X and it was out of tune quite a bit. It was considerably louder at that point. I would bet that the loud X you heard was not in tune. I have owned 2 Ross bows in the past and currently own an X-Force. I think they are BOTH exceptionally quiet bows when tuned properly.


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## MIKEY CUSTOM-G

*seriously ????*



Sportsman11 said:


> My archery buddy and i recently shot a 3d tournament and a shooter a target behind us was shooting the x force and we both agreed it was the loudest nastiest sounding bow we've ever heard. honestly we could hear him every time he shot and he was ATLEAST 40-50 yards behind us the whole me. i've also drawn the bow and its definately not top end bow caliber. i will continue to stay from pse and continue shooting my ross


maybe you need to tell that to the 3 south florida bucks i havested this past month......one from 35 yards and the latest one from 45-47 yards.... plus add in a couple wild boar that lay in my freezer. something tells me that those critters never KNEW what hit 'em ..... or was it that they simply wanted to committ suicide to a loud bow ????

my x-force is shooting in excess of 305 fps,435 grain arrow and 28.5 draw. i donr even hear the bow go off until i SEE the deer go DOWN !!!!....all i can say is someone aint got something right if that bow is making noise. i dare anyone to truthfully say my bow is loud. come and listen for yourself....i welcome anyone to see it for theirselves. the x-force is NOT a loud bow....PERIOD. any bow CAN be loud if not sequenced well enough. remember this bow has a cam on the bottom as well as on the top and they MUST be SLAVED in complete unison or you will get the string SLAPPING on the high part as it is shot.

i say its a simple fix to straighten out that loud x-force. as you need to do is roll over the cams on the bow and see where it bottoms out at. both cams need to bottom out at the same point on each cam in unison,,,then you are home....e-z fix.


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## Sportsman11

*easy*

wow didn't mean to offend everyone i was just sharing my personal experience...the xf i heard sounded like a bow who had a cam or mod screw loose cuz everyone knows that it has the distinct mettallic twang....i'm sure they're nice bows just not for me


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## Alan in GA

*this was the clincher,,,,*

" i will continue to stay from pse and continue shooting my ross"

That would work to discredit both the Ross and the PSE.
I own and thoroughly enjoy both brands.


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## zakk54

*My new Baby!!!




























Shoots broadheads (Slicktricks) in the same hole at 60 yards!
Holds like a target bow!
Second best shooter I've owned, but it's 40fps faster! More Energy /// More pass-throughs on shots that encounter bone!
I'm a bit different than most! I didn't by the bow to shoot fast; I bought it to have more energy without pulling more weight! I shoot 450gr arrows and could care less how much of a drop they have as long as they hit like an anvil!!!! Just my 2cents...

Qad Ultra Rest Pro
Copper John Dead Nuts 2 .019
Doinker 7" Rod Stab
STS Rear mount
Easton Epic 340 // Primos Wraps // Blazers
SlickTrick Magnum 100gr
Meta 3/16" peep
Trophy Ridge 1-piece quiver
Americas Best 8125 Prestretched Strings // Yellow & Black
*


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## jms375

Zakk54, nice looking bow


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## Slice

Sportsman11 said:


> wow didn't mean to offend everyone i was just sharing my personal experience...the xf i heard sounded like a bow who had a cam or mod screw loose cuz everyone knows that it has the distinct mettallic twang....i'm sure they're nice bows just not for me


In your defense I did have the hex screws on my cam come loose and it sounded like I had a pair of tin cans on my limbs. I tightened them down and it was quiet as a church mouse again.


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## Alan in GA

*you did't offend anyone,,,*



Sportsman11 said:


> wow didn't mean to offend everyone i was just sharing my personal experience...the xf i heard sounded like a bow who had a cam or mod screw loose cuz everyone knows that it has the distinct mettallic twang....i'm sure they're nice bows just not for me


just good arguing going on. You might try the X Force before you take the 'I'll stay away' mode tho. You might just like it. 
My first opinion of it's appearance was 'weird/ugly' and walked right past it at the ATA show. I wanted to check out and handle the Firestorm X which really looked like a true tree stand hunting bow [and is].
But the X Force wasn't designed for looks. It was designed to get the string anchor/pivot points to go 'past parallel', and get a lot of energy out of the cam design, axle travel path, and limbs.
It's been one fun bow and interesting enough to make me really want to try the newer shorter uglier[kidding] SS and TS versions. PSE is running wild with bow design,,a GOOD THING in what has been a somewhat boring sport until the last few years [to me anyway].
Jump on back in here and argue your points,,,,just explain them in more detail and don't dump a bow out with the bathwater without trying it first.
Ya gotta try 'em before you can/should 'dis 'em.


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## xx78sss

As an archer that has tried to play with all the physics involved for many years, you can only do so much. It is simple physics.

Many of the comments I read hear are just folks trying to promote whatever it is they want to promote for whatever reason.

The PSE X-Force is the best thing I have seen in years. This is not hype, this is a fact. They have taken physics to a new level and no one has caught up yet. 

What will be funny is to watch all the bow manufactures and the ones on this thread that bash them come up with their copy-cat ideas in 2008 

By the way, they are still at the same place they have been for the last 30 years and still make bows.

May we all promote archery and bowhunting in a respectable way.


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## OhioBowhunter78

*Got one*

I now have an X Force 7, and it is a nice bow.... It does have a hard pull. As hard as any bow on the market, but not so bad that it feels uncomfortable to me. The draw is long, but can be adjusted. Speed is great, quiet and forgiving.

This is a keeper for now, but I still say my 07 HW Grey Allegiance is all around a better hunting rig.

Thanks


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## mrp

My X-Force 7 has turned my Switchback XT into a doorstop.


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## LarryStone

*xforce thoughts*

trying out an XForce..my thoughts so far.. 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Let me start out by saying,ive shot a Hoyt for the last 12 yrs,,,I just wanted to try something different,so i bought an xforce here on AT...

My thoughts as ive shot it now for about a week or so..

First off let me say the xforce I have has Winners Choice strings and cables..

Draw is a little different ,but after a few shots it feels pretty good..

The bow is very easy to aim,I mean you draw an hold it,it just sits right there..very nice.If you like a big valley its probably not for you.It has a valley ,but its small compared to most Hoyts ive shot that were cam.5.l would compare it more to a spiral cam .5.

I installed an STS front mount and it is dead quiet, and with no hand shock whatsoever..I know the STS made a difference on this ,but I havent shot any bow without one for quite awhile..

As far as the 6 inch BH, it feels like more than that,it shoots like a 7,7.5 BH bow.

Now for the speed part,,
I shoot 28,and it feels like its about a .250 inch longer than my Hoyt...

At 28 draw ,,60 lbs 

385 gr.hunting arrow,, 299fps} Im sure this will vary some on diff chrony,s..
300 gr target arrow ,, 328 fps} same as above...

I shot these through our club chrony, Blackhawk Bowhunters ,Yankeetown,Indiana

Like I said,Ive shot Hoyts for a long time,but im going too give this bow a try for awhile..Im pretty impressed with it so far...

This is JMO from shooting the bow..


Larry


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## SteveHolt

I truly appreciate all the input in this thread. I am pretty much convinced to go with the X-force in the 29" draw at 60 pounds. Now, I have to make sure that I get the "right" rest, "right" sight, "right" STS, etc, etc.

I will keep my Allegiance though. It isn't as fast, but it brings a smile to my face.


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## Slice

SteveHolt said:


> I truly appreciate all the input in this thread. I am pretty much convinced to go with the X-force in the 29" draw at 60 pounds. Now, I have to make sure that I get the "right" rest, "right" sight, "right" STS, etc, etc.
> 
> I will keep my Allegiance though. It isn't as fast, but it brings a smile to my face.


Don't rule out the P.O.S. string suppressor. I have one on mine and it is fabulous. Check out thread http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=542675 I have one on my X-Force and my Switchback and could not be happier with the product.


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## Slice

*My X-Force*

Here is my X-Force. It has a P.O.S. string silencer, Sling Braid, FOB's, and the bow rest is a Quick Stand bow holder. All these products were purchased from AT sponsers.


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## MIKEY CUSTOM-G

*new 08 bows*

the boys from back home who were staunch bowtec-ies and waiting on the airbornes sort of sounded dissappointed. seems they got in a 101 and it just wasn't all that what we all expected. i still want to try the 82nd,,,,but all that gadetry on it sort of got me thinking. i mean it looks like a sims labratory and a mathews roller guard along with pse limb pockets. i think bowtech might have rushed to judgement on these bows. i might wait until they renovate them better next year before i buy one.


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## scrapejuice

Just got a X-7 off of someone on here. I'll let you know what my eval. on it is. I'll admit ahead of time with all the hype, and the fact that I've shot someone else's in doors 10 or 15 shots. Already has me in sort of a biased situation or maybe a high expectation situation.

Nevertheless, I'll be back to post later!


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## CJKOLCUN

*X-force*

Glad to see people give the bow a try. I have not shot a PSE in years but did try a x-force7 and did like the way it shot. I think PSE has jumped above every one else and that has alot of people mad. :darkbeer:


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## scrapejuice

*Quiver??????*

I've seen on here a few people using the Trophy Ridge quiver. What other quivers are people mounting to these X-forces'? I'd like to have a 2 piece that mounts real solid!??????????????


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## Bnbfishin

*quivers.....*

I use an Alpine soft loc 5 arrow quiver on mine. I can't have a 2 piece on mine because it won't fit in the case. PSE makes a very nice 2 piece quiver for their bows and of course the camo mathces if that matters.


scrapejuice said:


> I've seen on here a few people using the Trophy Ridge quiver. What other quivers are people mounting to these X-forces'? I'd like to have a 2 piece that mounts real solid!??????????????


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## Bee

*pse x force*

i love my xforce

i shoot 430 grain arrow and nothing gets in it way

wildebeast easy

pse x force is the best bow i have ever shot

thank u pse
:wink::wink::wink::wink::wink::wink:


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## scrapejuice

*Pressing the x-force???*

I saw somewhere that you need a certain/specific kind of bowpress to press the x-force. I think I saw where you can get a portable small press to do it with. Does anyone know anything about this??????????


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## Slice

scrapejuice said:


> I saw somewhere that you need a certain/specific kind of bowpress to press the x-force. I think I saw where you can get a portable small press to do it with. Does anyone know anything about this??????????


I have taken my X-Force to 3 well known bowshops here in Michigan and only 1 of them had the setup to press it.


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## Slice

scrapejuice said:


> I saw somewhere that you need a certain/specific kind of bowpress to press the x-force. I think I saw where you can get a portable small press to do it with. Does anyone know anything about this??????????


I have taken my X-Force to 3 well known bowshops here in Michigan and only 1 of them had the setup to press it. If you buy it from a bowshop make sure they have the equipment and knowledge to service it.


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## rpford53

I have the PSE Top Gun Vertex Bow Quiver, it mounts real solid and is very adjustable. On the bow press, yes it take a certain press. I have the EZpress and it is one of the best presses on the market. I have now two Apple presses for sale.


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## rwells

apple presses can be converted to use on all x-force bows.


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## johnno

Ditto with the Vertex quiver..here's a pic of mine....


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## scrapejuice

johnno said:


> Ditto with the Vertex quiver..here's a pic of mine....


Johnno,

nice looking rig. Does the STS seem to help quiet a bit? If I'm seeing those right, aren't those SWORD sights?

SJ


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## Don Schultz

RE Pressing the X Force and similar bows.

I recently bought the EZ Press from lastchancearchery.com for ChicagoBowHunters.com in Illinois. We had enough members with paralel limb bows having trouble getting the Apple press we own working for them that it was a good purchase. I chose the EZ because it's, well, easy to use, and will press anything with little or no adjustment.

I have successfully pressed an X Force with my Bowmaster portable press and the hooks that are used for split limbs. The hooks are an option and are purchased separately. It would be neater to have a set of hooks that are not an 'S' but a 'C' in shape, but it did the job, and I'd be happy to change a string or cable in the field with it as is.


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## johnno

scrapejuice said:


> Johnno,
> 
> nice looking rig. Does the STS seem to help quiet a bit? If I'm seeing those right, aren't those SWORD sights?
> 
> SJ


Although the X-F was never noisy from the start...the STS does make it a little quieter..and you can never be too quiet.. mine is a CHL version... and Yes... it a Sword Twilight hunter...its a great sight with very bright pins and at dusk with the led on its "disco" time !!

And BTW a mate of mine just got an LA press for his X-F and it works fine !!


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## Don Schultz

carteranderson said:


> You can't argue with success......What's the technology behind the X-Force that attenuates a 6.0 BH?
> C.


RE the X-Force. There isn't to much reflex in the handle, that is the limb pockets are not as far out in front of the point where the hand meets the bow as the pockets are in many low brace height bows. IMO that results in a more stable bow at full draw.


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## NRA republican

Very fast. Very accurate. Very quiet (with STS). Though I don't shoot often, when I do shoot, I regularly shoot 2 arrow, 50 yard groups with shafts nearly touching--busted a nock with one of the groups. Quit using F.O.B's--damaged too many of them shooting 2-3 arrow groups from 50 yards. Sighting in out to 100 yards appears very feasable. Seems my quest for for ultimate hunting bow has ended with the PSE X-Force.


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## scrapejuice

*Christmas Present!!*

Shot my first robinhood yesterday! I've been shooting/hunting with a bow for 18 years now, and just yesterday shot my first robinhood with my X-force 7 and Maxima 250's. Dang this thing shoots consistent!


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## RAZOR62

Well after reading every single post on this thread it appears to me as though there are far more happy X Force owners than there are unhappy ones. First chance that I get I'm gonna stop by the dealer and shoot one. (If I can find one in left hand.)
From what I've read here I'm a little concerned about the narrow valley. I owned a Black Knight a few years back and I didn't care for the characteristics of the valley on that bow. I guess you could say that that bow quieted my longing for a "speed" bow. Everyone's saying that this bow doesn't feel like a typical speed bow however. 
I love a short bow but I already own a Liberty 1, a Switchback XT, a Diamond Triumph and a Fred Bear SQ32. I really want to take advantage of all this new design has to offer but I can't decide if I should go with the original X Force with its 33" a.t.a. or sacrifice some speed and go with the SS version with it's 26, 5/8" a.t.a. . I'm leaning toward the 33" a.t.a. this, of course assuming that I like what I see when I shoot it.

It also appears that I may want to consider ordering a shorter draw length than I normally would as some have noted that the draw lengths of these bows to to run a little long (1/2" -3/4" seems to be the consensus). 

Any input on these topics would be greatly appreciated.


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## rwells

I think you will like the way the bow feels when drawn. I have the Dream Season already and I am waiting on the SS to come in.(They sent two in the other day and neither were 60lb) Anyway try to shoot each model they all feel great. When I shot the SS I thought it would not feel right. When I pulled the SS back I really could not tell the bow was that short.


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## Alan in GA

*PSE SS X Force*

I am buying one for these reasons:

1) I deer and coyote hunt in Georgia, a very 'wooded' state. Tree stands can be placed in trees where you can cover yourself and make 'close in' shots happen. My first deer this year was a buck that came quickly to rattleing. Shot was 15 yards. The tree stand was in very heavy cover only 10' from the edge of a food plot, one of 6 our club maintains. A bow that will manuver between limbs and twigs without a limb hitting one is an assett. Bow season for deer here in Georgia lasts a LONG TIME. Starts statewide about Sept 10 and ends Jan 1 in most countys. HOWEVER, here in Cobb County we have a special archery only season that extends to Jan 31, 2008~! LOTS of woods time if one can arrange it around family time and work time.
2) I picked up a used X Force 6" model in 60# to 'try'. I have had PSE bows in the past but was not expecting a bow this good. I thought it looked funny. At a very comfortable 60# this XF was slinging arrows my other bows had to be at 70# to match in speed. The XF did not give excessive bow hand shock or vibration, another suprise to me. If I have to have 'some' handshock in the SS that's coming I think I would be OK. I'm wanting it to be a fast accurate HUNTING bow and a bit of handshock would be acceptible IF it has some. Many have said it shoots very well with no handshock, but I'm trying to be prepared for 'some' if it does have it.
3) PSE has proven to me that they will stand behind their bows. The SS is a new model, but I'm going to jump in and buy one even before others test it. Guess I'll be one of the first 'public' testers. I honestly believe that IF a design flaw were to surface, PSE would make it 100% right. So I have zero worrys there.
4) I sold the X Force only to help 'mentally' fund the SS. $800 is a LOT of money. They're not giving me one. However I find that purchase price is only a brief memory when buying a rifle, vehicle, or any such item. The Quality and Engineering put into the product and the enjoyment of using it will be what counts.
5) I think the SS may be the best HUNTING bow to ever come out.
6) I like new toys.


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## rwells

when I shot the dream season and SS, I actually shot the SS a little better. It even felt better on the shot in terms of vibration and hand shock. The only reason I purchased the Dream Season first was because it was in stock. Maybe I will get lucky this day and my SS will arrive in the shop.


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## bowman1964

RAZOR62 said:


> Well after reading every single post on this thread it appears to me as though there are far more happy X Force owners than there are unhappy ones. First chance that I get I'm gonna stop by the dealer and shoot one. (If I can find one in left hand.)
> From what I've read here I'm a little concerned about the narrow valley. I owned a Black Knight a few years back and I didn't care for the characteristics of the valley on that bow. I guess you could say that that bow quieted my longing for a "speed" bow. Everyone's saying that this bow doesn't feel like a typical speed bow however.
> I love a short bow but I already own a Liberty 1, a Switchback XT, a Diamond Triumph and a Fred Bear SQ32. I really want to take advantage of all this new design has to offer but I can't decide if I should go with the original X Force with its 33" a.t.a. or sacrifice some speed and go with the SS version with it's 26, 5/8" a.t.a. . I'm leaning toward the 33" a.t.a. this, of course assuming that I like what I see when I shoot it.
> 
> It also appears that I may want to consider ordering a shorter draw length than I normally would as some have noted that the draw lengths of these bows to to run a little long (1/2" -3/4" seems to be the consensus).
> 
> Any input on these topics would be greatly appreciated.


have you seen the X-FORCE TS (tree stand) that bow is a little bit longer than the SS but still a lot shorter that the reg. X-FORCE but still a smokin fast bow and shoots great too


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## bowman1964

yes the drawlengths do run a little bit long. i normally shoot a 29" DL but i am shooting a 28" with my x-force 7 and shoot fine with it.

chances are you will want to order it 1 size shorter than you shoot. plus if you shoot with a loop it will make the DL a little longer too.


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## MIKEY CUSTOM-G

*x-force*

i just feel the x-force is the ORIGINAL 6 inch brace bow with the big reflexed riser. the others are "take offs" of a successful introduction. i.e. CAPITALIZATION at its best. take the concept and RUN with it into various forms.

so my evaluation was on the original x-force 6 inch brace. then pse introduced a 7 inch to shut up the complainers who were afraid of 6 inch brace bows. pse still called it a x-force,,,,but truth be known,,,pse hood winked everyone. its a whole different bow. it only has the same cams. shouldn't have shared the same name. the riser is way less reflexed.

i'm not saying the other x-force bows pse has intrduced are not good. they MIGHT be AWESOME. the fact is,,,this was an evaluation of a 6 inch brace bow......and my findings of it. we cant compare a 6 inch brace with a 7 inch brace bow or with a 28 inch axle to axle bow. its apples to oranges.

now as far as quivers. i take the cheap way out and went with a kwikee kwiver 6. $21 and forget about it. i take my quiver off when i reach the stand and hang it on the tree with a small rope loop i tie on my quiver.i have used kwikees for many many years. they work fine.


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## rwells

I agree with everything you said. I don't think most people even pay attetion to the riser on the X-Force. They see the split limbs and cams and just assume it is the same bow. As for shootability what can you say. Short BH bow that shoots like no other.

I prefer to not have any quiver attached to my bow. It hangs on my pack with everything else.


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## NMP

MIKEY CUSTOM-G said:


> i just feel the x-force is the ORIGINAL 6 inch brace bow with the big reflexed riser. the others are "take offs" of a successful introduction. i.e. CAPITALIZATION at its best. take the concept and RUN with it into various forms.
> 
> so my evaluation was on the original x-force 6 inch brace. then pse introduced a 7 inch to shut up the complainers who were afraid of 6 inch brace bows. pse still called it a x-force,,,,but truth be known,,,pse hood winked everyone. its a whole different bow. it only has the same cams. shouldn't have shared the same name. the riser is way less reflexed.
> 
> i'm not saying the other x-force bows pse has intrduced are not good. they MIGHT be AWESOME. the fact is,,,this was an evaluation of a 6 inch brace bow......and my findings of it. we cant compare a 6 inch brace with a 7 inch brace bow or with a 28 inch axle to axle bow. its apples to oranges.
> 
> now as far as quivers. i take the cheap way out and went with a kwikee kwiver 6. $21 and forget about it. i take my quiver off when i reach the stand and hang it on the tree with a small rope loop i tie on my quiver.i have used kwikees for many many years. they work fine.



The X-6 and the X-7 are exactly the same except for the risers reflex. They have the same limb deflection, limb angle, cams and strings. The other xforce models still use the same limbs, limb angles and cams even though the strings are shorter.


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## MIKEY CUSTOM-G

*Well*



NMP said:


> The X-6 and the X-7 are exactly the same except for the risers reflex. They have the same limb deflection, limb angle, cams and strings. The other xforce models still use the same limbs, limb angles and cams even though the strings are shorter.


if the RISER has "less" reflex" in it,,,,how can it be the same bow ???? because it shares the same cams and limb concepts??? hardly in my book. the reflex of a riser COMPLETELY changes the characteristics of any bow. bowtech did it for years. they used just about the same riser with the only difference being how the limbs would angle off the top of the riser. the angles dictated the brace height changes from bow to bow....


pse took note i assume. they took the concept of the mach-x and xforce and tinkered around and made "VARIATIONS" off those. so i call the others like the xforce 7,,,the ss and the others "variations". different bows. good bows,,,just the same,,,but different. they admidetly have some "similiarities" but it ends right there.


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## NMP

I promise that the only thing that PSE took notes from Bowtech on were speed ratings. To you the riser is 90% of the bow I guess. To me its only 20%. I didnt say that it would feel the same I only stated the fact that the only thing different about any of the X Forces is the reflex in the riser and string lengths when you tried to say that PSE hoodwinked everyone about it. No one has been hoodwinked, they are almost identical bows as far as the parts are concerned.:darkbeer:


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## scrapejuice

Is the glass half full, or half empty?

Depends on your perspective, thats all.


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## tdawg21

I have an X-Force question. I am left handed and shoot a Mathews Switchback LD due to having a 32" draw length. Before we get into the "most people shoot a draw length too long for them" discussion, I am a true 32". Believe me. I have seen the X-Force Long Draw bow but hate the look of it. The Dream Season X-Force says it will do 31". I've seen lots of posts here saying the X-Force draw lengths tend to run 1/4 to 1/2" long. I also read on the PSE website that the cam has 3/8" "built in" adjustment, although it doesn't really specify that if it's a 31" that it will go to 31 3/8". I can't seem to get anyone at PSE to call me back about this question (not a particularly good sign) so I thought I'd check here. Finally the question: Can I get a 31" Dream Season X-Force to go to at least maybe 31 1/2 to 31 3/4? Any input or info is appreciated.


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## Alan in GA

*well,,,,*



tdawg21 said:


> I have an X-Force question. I am left handed and shoot a Mathews Switchback LD due to having a 32" draw length. Before we get into the "most people shoot a draw length too long for them" discussion, I am a true 32". Believe me. I have seen the X-Force Long Draw bow but hate the look of it. The Dream Season X-Force says it will do 31". I've seen lots of posts here saying the X-Force draw lengths tend to run 1/4 to 1/2" long. I also read on the PSE website that the cam has 3/8" "built in" adjustment, although it doesn't really specify that if it's a 31" that it will go to 31 3/8". I can't seem to get anyone at PSE to call me back about this question (not a particularly good sign) so I thought I'd check here. Finally the question: Can I get a 31" Dream Season X-Force to go to at least maybe 31 1/2 to 31 3/4? Any input or info is appreciated.


I don't know how you will know for sure unless you get to the bow and pick it up and shoot it. I'm a true 27.0" DL,,but I can pick up and shoot a 26.0" DL bow of most brands and shoot it no problem. I've come to believe [and I'm far from being any kind of bow expert] that it's possible there isn't a specific draw length for some of us. We shoot in a 'range' of DL that may be as large as 1/2" or more. A slight change in any part of our form and we're a different DL, even if only a 1/4" or so. I find I can shoot a shorter than 'normal' DL with very little change in any of my form. When I purchased a Ross 331 I also ordered extra DL modules just for experimenting with DL. It is an interesting question "What IS my draw length?"

I will be interested in the answers you get here. My theory on a 'range' of DL will probably raise the ire of some knowlegeable archers but it's what I've noticed from my own experimenting.


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## Alan in GA

*well,,,,*



tdawg21 said:


> I have an X-Force question. I am left handed and shoot a Mathews Switchback LD due to having a 32" draw length. Before we get into the "most people shoot a draw length too long for them" discussion, I am a true 32". Believe me. I have seen the X-Force Long Draw bow but hate the look of it. The Dream Season X-Force says it will do 31". I've seen lots of posts here saying the X-Force draw lengths tend to run 1/4 to 1/2" long. I also read on the PSE website that the cam has 3/8" "built in" adjustment, although it doesn't really specify that if it's a 31" that it will go to 31 3/8". I can't seem to get anyone at PSE to call me back about this question (not a particularly good sign) so I thought I'd check here. Finally the question: Can I get a 31" Dream Season X-Force to go to at least maybe 31 1/2 to 31 3/4? Any input or info is appreciated.


I don't know how you will know for sure unless you get to the bow and pick it up and shoot it. I'm a true 27.0" DL,,but I can pick up and shoot a 26.0" DL bow of most brands and shoot it no problem. I've come to believe [and I'm far from being any kind of bow expert] that it's possible there isn't a specific draw length for some of us. We shoot in a 'range' of DL that may be as large as 1/2" or more. A slight change in any part of our form and we're a different DL, even if only a 1/4" or so. I find I can shoot a shorter than 'normal' DL with very little change in any of my form. I also find that I can try a bit LONGER DL and everything goes to pot. 
When I purchased a Ross 331 I also ordered extra DL modules just for experimenting with DL. It is an interesting question "What IS my draw length?"

I will be interested in the answers you get here. My theory on a 'range' of DL will probably raise the ire of some knowlegeable archers but it's what I've noticed from my own experimenting.


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## MIKEY CUSTOM-G

*t-dog*



tdawg21 said:


> I have an X-Force question. I am left handed and shoot a Mathews Switchback LD due to having a 32" draw length. Before we get into the "most people shoot a draw length too long for them" discussion, I am a true 32". Believe me. I have seen the X-Force Long Draw bow but hate the look of it. The Dream Season X-Force says it will do 31". I've seen lots of posts here saying the X-Force draw lengths tend to run 1/4 to 1/2" long. I also read on the PSE website that the cam has 3/8" "built in" adjustment, although it doesn't really specify that if it's a 31" that it will go to 31 3/8". I can't seem to get anyone at PSE to call me back about this question (not a particularly good sign) so I thought I'd check here. Finally the question: Can I get a 31" Dream Season X-Force to go to at least maybe 31 1/2 to 31 3/4? Any input or info is appreciated.


first of all i would stay away from the dream season bow,,,,PERSONALLY that is. i ,,,if i were you,,,,would opt for the 6 inch original x-force. yeas buy a 31 incher. it will surely come in around a solid 31.5,,,and you can adjust a little bit more out of it i am sure to get if not 32,,,,real darned close.

i'm assuming you are about 6' 7" or so to have that blessed a draw length huh ???? man how fast would this bow be for you at 32 inches and 70 pounds ??? WOW !!!! you might hit around 360-370 fps !!!! WOW !!!! you;ll need one pin out to 50 yards !!! lol...

the 7 inch x-force seems to be giving people some issues here and there.... to me its a different bow other then the cams. i tell you the truth,,,there is NO REASON for the 7 inch bow other then people are AFRAID to shoot 6 inch. the 7 inch wont be any more foregiving then the 6 inch. and i have heard reports of people who actually shot the 6 inch more ACCURATE then the 7 inch...my advice is to veer away from the 7 inch and go for the 6 inch....my opinion that is...


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## dsp3472

*draw*

my understanding is the 6" brace height bow will only go to 30". the 7" will go to 31". per pse's web site.


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## tdawg21

My understanding is the same as dsp3472's, the 6" will only go to 30" per the factory website. I would love to have the 6" BH model, but don't think it's in the cards. BTW: I'm only 6' 5" but have got some looooong arms. It's usually a curse cause it limits you to a very few bow models. I'd gladly trade the 10-20fps I gain to be able to shoot all the new hi-tech sexy models you little guys can. Any other feedback on the Dream Season X-Force?


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## Spectramax

*Draw length & Bowpress*

Sorry to hear you can't get the 6"BH XF. I am just a hair under 6'3", which luckily makes me a true 30" DL. I also used to shoot a switchy LD, and I can tell the you the XF 6 smokes compared to the LD. It's so flat, a single pin set at 25 yds will do for anything inside 35 yds. I now use two pins to cover out to 50 yds, while I previously used 5. My groups have also become much tighter at 30 and 40 yards since making the switch. 

If you are looking to press an X force inexpensively, I would suggest an Omnipress bowpress from AT member "Ominpress" He makes some special U-shaped press pins that let you squeeze an X-Force. His press is a great deal.

I also like the Kwikee quiver on the XF, although I prefer the 3 arrow model. As I hunt in northeast CT, I might go a whole season w/o firing 5 arrows :sad:


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## hunter78

*Tree Stand*

I don't have the years of experience that others have on AT. I have shot alot of the newer bows that have come out in the last few years. Many of them were really nice to shoot. I just picked up my x force ts and I love it. I waited some time before I would order a new bow. I wanted to order a bow that was above and beyond .  Again I'm not an expert, but this bow rocks.


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## Alan in GA

*the TS,,,*



hunter78 said:


> I don't have the years of experience that others have on AT. I have shot alot of the newer bows that have come out in the last few years. Many of them were really nice to shoot. I just picked up my x force ts and I love it. I waited some time before I would order a new bow. I wanted to order a bow that was above and beyond . Again I'm not an expert, but this bow rocks.


Remember Indiana Jones choosing the Chalice for 'healing power' for his father?
The guardian said "You chose wisely, my son" or words to that effect.
And so did you!
The TS and SS are going to cause a LOT of discussion as more get out into the shooting public. Something this new, odd, small and different COULDN'T shoot that well is what many will think......but we now know they DO~!


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## time907356

*X-Force 7 / Dream Season*

Admittedly, I'm a newbie. I've only shot maybe 3 compounds in my life, with the third being my current Hoyt Ultratec. It filled my dance card this fall though, and I ran out of deer tags before I ran out of season. Not too bad for my first year in the stand! 4 for 4.
After reading all the hype, the success of the new XF's was too much to withstand. First pick was a std. X-F 6, but alas, I feared the "6" too much! I have a X-7 DS due to arrive today, and my wife standing by to accept the Fed-Ex drop off as I write. 
?? On to the issue. I've heard some noise about the 7's and DS's, and was wondering if there are any legitimate complaints about performance-COMPARED to the X-F 6? 
I'm hoping for real speed, as only one arrow from the trusty Ultra passed through (an 8yd. shot) of 4 successful hits. I'm also hoping for a flatter trajectory, which speed will deliver, since I don't trust my judgement on distance. Any comments?
-Tim


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## rwells

My only complaint is I have to buy new arrows, because it's spot on and I keep shooting at the same spot.


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## tdawg21

time907356,
PLEASE let me know asap how you like the DS X-Force. I am ready to order one myself and want all the feedback I can get before doing so. I almost ordered it today but fought off the urge for the moment. From what I've _heard_, most of the issues have been with bows that were put into the wrong style of bowpress during set-up (peep sights, etc.) and were somehow damaged slightly during the process. I've spoken to 3 people who've definitely had this happen. Other than that, I haven't heard many confirmed complaints, but I would definitely like more info before taking the plunge.

tdawg21


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## time907356

T-dawg,
The bow was waiting on me when I got home. It's very light weight, but other than drawing it a few times, I can't tell you much yet, although the looks have certainly grown on me in the 3 months I've been considering buying one! I'ts a little less mutant looking than the X-6. It does have a very narrow valley, compared with my Hoyt. 
The rest of the day has been spent on the net ordering accessories. I'm a little behind! The string came with a plastic peep; curious, as the string wasn't tied in around it, and it's seemingly backwards! That'll be the first thing to go. Instructions say a press is needed with these limb pockets (Hyper Split Pockets) so no on-the-go module changes. I'm going from 29 to 30" for sure. I'll be looking for rest tips now. When I shoot it, I'll post again.
-Tim


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## rwells

You don't need a press to change mods. The peep is just one they send with it, it's backwards more than likely because of string stretch.


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## time907356

The instructions read (in bold face type), "Bows with HyperSplit pockets MUST (underlined) be serviced in an approved bow press and require special consideration." Unless changing modules doesn't fall under "serviced", then I'm not touchin this thing (read: Void Warrenty!) 
As I draw, the string spins, but not nearly enough to right the peep. I'd have to be standing on top of the limb to look through it (lol). No serving around the string there either. It must come out!
-Tim


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## tdawg21

I had a long conversation with a seemingly lady (seemingly very intelligent) at PSE Customer Service and one of the things I asked her was did the XF DS require a press for draw length changes. She said it didn't require a press for mod changes but that it did require a press to get the + or - 3/8" adjustment in the cam. If this is correct or not, I can't say for sure (yet anyway LOL).

tdawg21


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## time907356

I'll have to have a similar conversation. Without guidance, I don't want to risk screwing up the bow. I'm only a mechanical engineer  Thanks for the leads though...
Tim


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## Alan in GA

*It's true.*



tdawg21 said:


> I had a long conversation with a seemingly lady (seemingly very intelligent) at PSE Customer Service and one of the things I asked her was did the XF DS require a press for draw length changes. She said it didn't require a press for mod changes but that it did require a press to get the + or - 3/8" adjustment in the cam. If this is correct or not, I can't say for sure (yet anyway LOL).
> 
> tdawg21


I have to admit I've not handled the DS, but the 6" DL origional XF, the TS and SS all have clear access to the module screws with no string/cables contacting them when bow is at rest.
The end of the string holding onto the '-' and '+' posts will of course need to have the bow pressed in order to releive stress on the string end loop. PSE has in inexpensive "Pocket Press" that should allow that adjustment to be made. It does not allow cable adjustment, just string adjustment.


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## rwells

I do have the Dream Season and the SS and even watched the PSE Sales Rep change my modules for me. That is proof enough for me. That and it states in the manual that you don't need a press to change modules.


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## tdawg21

rwells,

Give us some user feedback on the Dream Season. There's several of us here looking to buy them. Give us your honest opinion. Thanks bro.

tdawg


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## rwells

I think it is a great bow. I love the grip on it, it really does put your hand were it is supposed to be. Fast, no need to go into what has already been said. Once it's tuned it is quiet, does not jump in the hand, forgiving. I have no problem beating up arrows it appears, I guess I need to quit aiming at the same spot. It is the right bow for me all the way around. I know there are many people who agree with me also. 

The only problem I actually have with the Dream Season is the 70lb model is a little stout to pull compared to some other bows. It's not the worst, but it's not the best either. I see no point of shooting a bow that heavy anyway so that is no factor to myself. Hope this helped, if you have any other questions just ask here of PM me.


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## jam66

*X Force Timing?*

I noticed when I removed my peep sight that the string moved away from the top cam white hash mark enough to throw the timing off by an 1/8". Other than putting the peep back in ,how would you correct this timing issue?


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## Andreas

jam66 said:


> I noticed when I removed my peep sight that the string moved away from the top cam white hash mark enough to throw the timing off by an 1/8". Other than putting the peep back in ,how would you correct this timing issue?


Removing the peep makes the string a tad shorter. You should liekly put some twists to the string.


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## tdawg21

Wouldn't removing the peep make the string a tad longer?


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## Andreas

tdawg21 said:


> Wouldn't removing the peep make the string a tad longer?


Of course, it makes it a tad longer. Sorry for the misstake!


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## jam66

*X Force cam Pictures...*

Here is what the top and bottom cams look like after putting enough shots on it so the string settled in. Which cables(s) do I twist or untwist , so they are even?


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## chinquapin

got my xforce couple days ago, Let me saythat this thing will scream!!! The grip is awesome and the accuracy of this bow is rediculous. It's an easy shooter,and you definately can't relax your sholders any cause she is readyto rip at the slightest touch forward. Great bow PSE hats off to you 

I have the 07 xforce 6"BH set at 66lbs and a 29" DL


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## rwells

Jam don't pay attention to the marks. Just watch yourself in a big mirror or have someone watchyour cams as you draw to see if they are in sync. Then worry about the cables.


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## RAZOR62

Well, I just won the bid on an X-Force 6 70lb. with a27.5" dl. I usually shoot 28"-28.5" when using a loop. Hope this was a good choice. It's easy enough to change I guess and I'm sure that I can find a buyer for these mods if need be.

After reading here about folks damaging these bows by pressing them wrong I'm a little concerned. Any way to know if it's been damaged? 

I've got an Omni Press and I was hoping that it would be compatible with this bow. Glad to hear that it is with a simple pin change. The bow's got a three slotted peep in the string and so it's got to go. My eyes have a hard enough time focusing these days without trying to see through a few strands of bowstring. 

I'll post here again when I've had a chance to sling some arrows with it.

I can't wait!!! I feel like a kid on X-Forcemass eve!!!:santa:


----------



## rutnstrut

I have a question for you guys shooting xForce bows. We all know they are fast and from what I have heard they are not your typical speed bow. By that I mean they are not loud and don't kick like a mule,I have also heard that they are forgiving. My big question is I have a very short draw length at 26.5 inches. Do you think I still could expect close to 300 FPS with an X Foce shooting a 420 grain arrow. I know it's a little heavy but I like plenty of KE. I have never been a speed guy but this bow really has me hooked and I haven't even shot one yet.


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## beauhunner

Hey guys Here is a little trick a pse dealer showed me . you will need a Bow string that is approx. 25 inch to 27 inch long and two strong " S" hooks. I used a 25.5 inch 150 # crossbow string. what you do is hook the "S" hooks in each end of the Crossbow string . Then with X force Bow string on floor ,step on x force bow string , pull bow toward ceiling ( Kind likeStringing a recurve with a stringer). And hook each "S" hook on the second cut out in cam. then slow let down, the x force string will now be loose and you can do whatever you want . PSE sells this item but it is made from coated cable for this appliaction. By the way a PSE regional rep showed the dealer this trick


----------



## NMP

rutnstrut said:


> I have a question for you guys shooting xForce bows. We all know they are fast and from what I have heard they are not your typical speed bow. By that I mean they are not loud and don't kick like a mule,I have also heard that they are forgiving. My big question is I have a very short draw length at 26.5 inches. Do you think I still could expect close to 300 FPS with an X Foce shooting a 420 grain arrow. I know it's a little heavy but I like plenty of KE. I have never been a speed guy but this bow really has me hooked and I haven't even shot one yet.


You will still be at 280-285 with a 420 grain arrow and a 70# dw. Here is the chart.
http://pse-archery.com/pdf/X-Force Data.pdf


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## scrapejuice

rutnstrut said:


> I have a question for you guys shooting xForce bows. We all know they are fast and from what I have heard they are not your typical speed bow. By that I mean they are not loud and don't kick like a mule,I have also heard that they are forgiving. My big question is I have a very short draw length at 26.5 inches. Do you think I still could expect close to 300 FPS with an X Foce shooting a 420 grain arrow. I know it's a little heavy but I like plenty of KE. I have never been a speed guy but this bow really has me hooked and I haven't even shot one yet.


I believe that speed is a bigger factor in the makeup of KE than weight. At least initially out of the bow (15-20 yards). At some distance down range, that may change, as a lighter arrow will loose speed more rapidly. So I would say you could easily/safely get to 5 gr./lb of bow weight. I would guess though at 5 gr/lb. you still may come up a bit shy of 300fps. If I'm wrong on this(and I may be), then I'm sure someone will let you (and me) know!:wink:


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## p&y417bull

shot a dream season today at f&d archery at 28 inch draw 64# with a loop and a 350 gr arrow went 290 i thought that was ok whats every one else getting


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## MIKEY CUSTOM-G

*x-force hunting speeds*

i am at 28.5 draw,,,and 70 pounds,,,,peep and a full draw kisser with winners choice strings. using a easton ACC 360 that weighs in at 430 grains,,,i hit around the 306 mark pretty consistently.


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## rwells

p&y417bull said:


> shot a dream season today at f&d archery at 28 inch draw 64# with a loop and a 350 gr arrow went 290 i thought that was ok whats every one else getting


Sounds a little slower than it should. I am shooting 60lb 28" 348gr. at around 305.


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## NMP

rwells said:


> Sounds a little slower than it should. I am shooting 60lb 28" 348gr. at around 305.


Mine is 60#, 28.25" AMO, 395 grain arrow, 293fps


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## Rick243

*XF speed*

I just bought a Dream Season this past weekend. Set at 31.4" DL ("+" peg module 10) 70% letoff and 74 lbs draw, a 430 grn arrow clocked 307 fps. Only a tru-peep and a short loop on the string. I feel it should be faster than that. Where do I start in checking out the timing, etc?


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## tdawg21

*Dream Season...*



Rick243 said:


> I just bought a Dream Season this past weekend. Set at 31.4" DL ("+" peg module 10) 70% letoff and 74 lbs draw, a 430 grn arrow clocked 307 fps. Only a tru-peep and a short loop on the string. I feel it should be faster than that. Where do I start in checking out the timing, etc?


Rick,
I just got my Dream Season last night and also have mine maxed out at 31" and using the + slot on the #10 mod. I'll be chronographing mine soon so I'll let you know asap. I don't know if I'll shoot it maxed out at 73-74 or not though. Just too damn stiff to suit me maxed out. Feels like 80lbs maxed out. But I will max it out and shoot it through the chrony just for info and get back to you. It may be a few days so hang in there. I'm hoping for 315-320 (trying to be realistic). I'm going to try some Maxima Hunters & some ACC 3-71's.

Tdawg21


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## rustybikes

*Mine's great!*

Got my Dream Season @ XMAS time and love it,fast,quiet,light,and a great grip been shooting axis 340's working out great


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## Rick243

*tdawg*



tdawg21 said:


> Rick,
> I just got my Dream Season last night and also have mine maxed out at 31" and using the + slot on the #10 mod. I'll be chronographing mine soon so I'll let you know asap. I don't know if I'll shoot it maxed out at 73-74 or not though. Just too damn stiff to suit me maxed out. Feels like 80lbs maxed out. But I will max it out and shoot it through the chrony just for info and get back to you. It may be a few days so hang in there. I'm hoping for 315-320 (trying to be realistic). I'm going to try some Maxima Hunters & some ACC 3-71's.
> 
> Tdawg21


Looking forward to reading your results. I put a new battery in my chrono and now the 430 grn arrows are shooting 311-312 fps. I got some Victory HV 500 shafts that weigh 375 grn with 100 grn points. These are shooting 336 fps.


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## ctbb

My X-Force7 was clocked at 330 with 27" draw, 70# and with a Lightspeed arrow (although the arrow was too light). I never had it clocked with my properly sized arrows. However, I'm only using 3 pins out to 60 yards - 20, 40 and 60. The pins are tighter than the 10, 20 and 30 I had on my old bow (Martin Shadowcat). For me this bow is better than any bow I've shot in every sense. I love the grip, brace height and accuracy - and it's nice and quiet too. I dropped a deer with it back in September. My arrow hit well below the spine, but still broke the deer's back and dropped him in his tracks. He expired in less than 20 seconds.


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## scrapejuice

ctbb said:


> My X-Force7 was clocked at 330 with 27" draw, 70# and with a Lightspeed arrow (although the arrow was too light). I never had it clocked with my properly sized arrows. However, I'm only using 3 pins out to 60 yards - 20, 40 and 60. The pins are tighter than the 10, 20 and 30 I had on my old bow (Martin Shadowcat). For me this bow is better than any bow I've shot in every sense. I love the grip, brace height and accuracy - and it's nice and quiet too. I dropped a deer with it back in September. My arrow hit well below the spine, but still broke the deer's back and dropped him in his tracks. He expired in less than 20 seconds.


I agree a great bow, very fast and accurate bow, with little shock. But, 330 seems too high @ 27"! I also have a X-7 set at 70lbs, but at 28" draw. I shot a 356 grain arrow (6 gr. over IBO). The only thing on the string was a 3/16" trupeep and a short loop. My chrono 3 out 4 shots gave 311 3 times and 310 once. My chrono hasn't been calibrated other than the factory, but that is about the speed I would expect. How many grains was your arrow??


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## String Twister

My DXT is on ebay-I'm going with a x-ss for blind and stand hunting.


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## ctbb

I agree that does seem too high - but that's what is clocked at (and I do question it myself). The arrow they gave me at the bowshop (Hall's Archery in Manchester, CT) to try the bow with was a LightSpeed target arrow with an 85 grain tip. Assuming the spine was 400, I suspect that the arrow was about 350 grains - perhaps less. I'm going to clock it again with the arrows I'm currently using (400, LightSpeed, 100 grain tip, 4 inch veins). I'll post the results again - this time I'll have my arrow weighed and the poundage tested too.


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## Alan in GA

*your on the right path,,Grasshopper,,,*



String Twister said:


> My DXT is on ebay-I'm going with a x-ss for blind and stand hunting.


You're in for a treat. Wish I could have taken my to the deer woods more than just the two quick trips!


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## tdawg21

*Here's the numbers...*



Rick243 said:


> Looking forward to reading your results. I put a new battery in my chrono and now the 430 grn arrows are shooting 311-312 fps. I got some Victory HV 500 shafts that weigh 375 grn with 100 grn points. These are shooting 336 fps.


OK, finally got to chrony the Dream Season today. Didn't play with the weight though, just shot it as it was set-up. Set on 67lbs, #10 module, set to the + setting (I'm guessing about 31 3/4"), draw stop in the 10 hole, & 70% let-off. All that's on the string is a 1/4" G5 Meta Peep & a 4 1/2" PSE release loop.Here it is: 446gr camo Maxima Hunter 350 - 296fps, 442gr ACC 3-71 - 298fps, 359gr blk Maxima 350 - 322fps. All have Blazer Vanes & the camo Maxima Hunters have a +20gr insert (from being magnetic to use with an Air Rest). I figure if I cranked the weight on up to 70-71lbs, the black Maxima 350's would come pretty darn close to the 340fps advertised. I know they'd be in the 330's anyway. Either way, this is the fastest bow I've ever shot by at least 40fps. And it's no louder than my Mathews SB-LD, which is fairly quiet in it's own right. I think the DS X-Force is a keeper. How about you guys?

Dawg


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## MIKEY CUSTOM-G

*x-force*

i just cant SEE any other version of the original x-force as being a well x-force. i mean the x-force came out with the 6 inch brace. then the world caught fire of it. so pse comes along with about 100 "versions" of a x-force. the 7 inch,,,,the dream season,the SS,,the TS,,,the x,y,z,,,the a,b,c...and so on and so on. when you say x-force these days,,,it seems to bring in about a 100 different pse bows.

not knocking the dream season,,,,but its a whole different in dynamic bow. the riser has less reflex which gives it more brace. the riser is more up and down as the mach x is but not as extreme as the mach x....

doesn't it seem like there are now too many x-force bows ??? when you talk x-force,,,you almost have to qualify the statement to say 6 inch,,,or dream season,,,or SS or TS etc. where was pse's head during all this ??? riding on a bandwagon ???


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## NMP

PSE knows that the design of the X-6 was great but not everyone liked the 6 inch brace. Not everyone liked the 30-3/8" max drawlength. Not everybody liked the 33" A-A. Yea there are alot of different X-Forces now but that is because the public wanted them. I am sure that PSE would have loved to only need to produce one version of this bow but they are trying to give everybody an option because not everybody has the Mikey Custom G way of thinking about these bows.


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## Alan in GA

*X Force technology options,,,,*

Mikey, Mikey, Mikey,,,,,
I'm SO glad PSE spent the R&D for other X Force bows. I believe X Force technology made the very good Super Short possible. A bow maker MIGHT have been able to bring out a 26" ATA bow without 'X Tech',,but I don't see where any other technology would have made such a GREAT SHOOTING 26" 
ATA bow possible. 

May or may not be a good comparison, but to me your way of thinking of keeping X Tech in only the origional 6" BH 33"ATA bow is like thinking the V8 motor should be kept and offered ONLY in a Cadillac, no Fords, Chevys, or Oldsmobiles.

There is one aspect I can agree with you on the origional bows 'exclusivity', and that is that it never had a name for itself. "X Force" is the limb/cam design, or what I call "X Tech[nology]". The design is VERY GOOD and a GREAT design to use in several different bow makeups [SS, TS, etc]. The "Original" should have been tagged with something like "Speedster" and the "X Force" name used as it's power plant description.

Other than that I have to shake my head when you make note that the X Force design should be made only as the origional bow????!

I sold my "Speedster XF" [] to helf fund my "SSuper SShort", and I'd do it again if I had to. I would also buy another "origional" X Force 6"/33"ATA if I had the $ floating around to do so, yes, it is that good a bow.

Should we give the origional the nickname Speedster XF?

***I just HAVE TO SAY,,,--Thank you Mr. Shepley for the SSuper SShort XF,,,,it is SUCH a GREAT bow for my methods of DEER and COYOTE hunting here in 'very woody' Georgia. I only wish I had been able to buy it sooner. Sure did bring a SMILE on my face the two short afternoon hunts I did get to carry it to and through the woods at the very end of our extended archery deer season!
I just may get to use it for turkey here soon, too. Blind hunting should be another world with this "Pocket Bow"


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## scrapejuice

Relax Mikey,

What's with treading on the sacred "X-Force" name. Its just a bow. A darned good one at that, but still just a bow.

PSE saw a way to offer several versions of a very popular bow to accomodate the general archery public. If they would have given them their own original names, they would not have been able to use the success of the original X-Force to boost interest. By using the X-Force name, they were able to hit the ground running with these new designs and changes to the X-7, Dream Season, TS, and SS. This created instant interest in these new designs, due to the reputation that the original X-Force had earned. I believe it also shows you that the majority of the archers would rather give up 10'/sec to get other characteristics in a bow (shorter, x-tra BH, etc...) 350ft/sec down to 340ft/sec. really isn't a very big deal in the big picture.


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## tdawg21

*Absolutely.*



NMP said:


> PSE knows that the design of the X-6 was great but not everyone liked the 6 inch brace. Not everyone liked the 30-3/8" max drawlength. Not everybody liked the 33" A-A. Yea there are alot of different X-Forces now but that is because the public wanted them. I am sure that PSE would have loved to only need to produce one version of this bow but they are trying to give everybody an option because not everybody has the Mikey Custom G way of thinking about these bows.


It'd be like Ford saying "we can only make 1 style Mustang. Just the GT. No standard V8, V6, LX, or Convertible. We're ONLY doing the GT. Like it or lump it". Somehow though, everyone knows the GT is the top performer (barring Saleens & Roushes, of course). That would be pretty narrow minded really.

Dawg


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## tpatrickm

with so many great bows out there why do you all rip on different makes. the x force is a great bow. but my current bow the gaurdian makes me a better shooter. with so many great bows you can't fault anybody for picking what they like.


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## NRA republican

Here's a couple pics to demonstrate the PSE X-force 6" BH bow accuracy. 4 arrow group from 40 yards with 60#, 27" draw, Easton Lightspeed 400 shafts, Blazer vanes, 125 gr points, Carter Quickie 1+ release. Been doing alot of experimenting with draw weight, draw length, Arrow FOC, different releases, stabilizer combinations, etc. Looks like I may have found a sweet spot. To date, no other bow has been as accurate for me. I think the "B.E.S.T." grip & lower berger button hole has alot to do with it. I'd really like to see what the PSE Dream Season & Moneymaker can do.


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## FENCELINE4

*Great shootin*

Nice group. Hopefully PSE keeps going in the right direction. Best of luck with the bow, should be able to kill somethin' with that.


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## mrp

on the group.....Hey Now!!!!!

mine continues to amaze me.....I'm not worthy:blob1:


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## drenal

just started shooting my x6 and holy crap is this thing fast .
and i have no idea why people think its hard to pull i had no problem and actually thought that it was smoother then my general and the drenelin
plus for some reason i prefer shooting hard cams or agrresive ones i like feeling the full lbs draw all the way through.
now dont call me brand favorite, couse im definetly not owned 4 different brand bows hoyt,mathews,bowtech,pse
and love them all.
just highly impressed with the x6 ,might see a ss sd in my future


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## gamblerken

*X-Force LD*

I bought my X-Force LD about two weeks ago and I have shot about 150-200arrows. I am very happy with it. With a 8.5 BH at 70 lbs and a 397 grain 29.5 inch GT arrow I am getting about 322 FPS. In addition to speed the bow does not jump or vibrate when I release the arrow. I must hand it to PSE, I am not sure that there is another bow with a 8.5 BH with this type of speed. I really think that my arrows are louder than my bow when I shot. So far I am happy that I made the switch from Hoyt to PSE. Been a Hoyt man for about 20 years. :darkbeer:


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## sanity24

*X Force*

Very nice group of arrows. Bought on the second week of Jan and shot my first tourny this am. Didnt do to bad from what they tell me. Just a plain old wild think on it right now, but when the weather turns in the spring I will be outside doing the same thing as you. I have 2 Mach X's, a Guardian and Commander, Patriot, 2 Old Glorys, a Deoblo and just got a Katera just to see how well it matches up to the XF6. We will soon see......Has th bow given you any problems??? The only thing I see is the string problems like before so far


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## FloridaHunter99

*Question*

For all u x forcers..What kind of speeds can i be getting out of an 80lb x force 6 with say 400gr. arrow and a 28inch draw?


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## cambow

*PSE rocks*

I have always shot my best with PSE bows. They are back, and so am I. I shot a 299/300 NFAA 5 spot this week in league with my x-force. That is my best league score ever, and I have been shooting spots on and off for 25 years.


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## jkeiffer

for an 80 lb X force and a 28 inch draw you should expect about 330-320 fps with a 400 grain arrow, depending upon fine tuning draw length and what you have on the string.

later
jkeiffer


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## String Twister

jam66 said:


> Here is what the top and bottom cams look like after putting enough shots on it so the string settled in. Which cables(s) do I twist or untwist , so they are even?


Start by measuring ata and then probably add twist to the string then fine tune bottom cam with y cable and top cam with straight buss cable.


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## NRA republican

sanity24 said:


> Has th bow given you any problems??? The only thing I see is the string problems like before so far


No real problems with my XF6". Sometimes I get some string slap, but it doesn't seem to affect accuracy. Center serving on stock string unwrapped. Tied it back & no problems since. It seems to shoot as good as I can hold steady. 
Now that I've about got draw length/weight/release figured out, I need to start super tuning it: lase tune; re-adjust full draw timing--it's a little off; bare shaft paper tune; & creep tune 
(post #1) http://forums.pse-archery.com/showthread.php?t=24696 .


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## String Twister

What rest are you guy's liking on your x's?


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## String Twister

kjwhfsd said:


> Sorry DFA but no they dont you might need to look at what the top PSE shooters are shooting. Pete wouldnt invite me It wouldn't do him ant good to have his new bow getting beat in every way except speed now would it. I didnt know this was only a PSE thread. Oh buy the way I shoot Martin and Browning.


WHO DO YOU THINK MAKES THAT BROWNING????


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## johnno

String Twister said:


> What rest are you guy's liking on your x's?


The "Whammy" is working VERY well on mine..:darkbeer:


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## scrapejuice

I like the limbdriver


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## MIKEY CUSTOM-G

*x-6 rest*

on my x-6 i HAD a QAD LD but took it off because it needed some tweaking and i was short on time because season was like a week away. being i have a more accute sense of tune with a fixed TM style rest,,,,i put a PSE raptor fixed TM rest with teflon forks on. made a couple quick tweaks and got some bulletholes thru paper. then i went and sighted it in,,,which takes like no time atall because the top pin is good out to 30+ yards. and the second pin is good to 50 yards,.....so i had 2 pins set and was good out to 50 yards,,,,then shot my broadheads. this is where i had a bit of an issue. my broadheads were about 3-4 inches to the right.

being i was short on time and not wanting to tweak a bunch of timing with the cams and the rest,,,,i just moved the whole gang group of my sights over a tad and was center punching with the crimson talon 100 broadheads.

since then i have added top and bottom of the inside riser simms nodes. i need to soon adjust again. i think my timing has "crept" a little. season is over so i am not worried. as soon as i get my 82nd airborne set up and shooting broadheads for the summers hog season,,,,,i'll do the x-6 over again.


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## scrapejuice

*question????*

Can anyone tell me if this is where the lines should be on my cam or should it be lined up with the cable? The top cam is set almost exactly the same. It can't be too far off. I shot 6 arrows at 80yds. 4 of them were in a 4" group. I pulled off a little on the other 2, they were about 5" to the upper left of the 4 arrow group. Still not bad, I'm just starting to get it sighted in with my new sights (SWORD!)


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## scrapejuice

*sorry!!*

Sorry here is the pic that goes with the above post.


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## String Twister

you are a little under rotateas long as you have not changer the string to the plus or minus post.-you adjust the bottom cam with the y-cable and the top cam with the straight buss cable-looks like you need to remove a twist or 2 to the y-cable.


----------



## String Twister

I re-read you post-if they are both off like that you need to measure your ata-I would guess your string has settled and should have a twist or 2 added if both cams are like that and your ata is long-if your ata is right remove twist to both cables.


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## scrapejuice

String Twister said:


> I re-read you post-if they are both off like that you need to measure your ata-I would guess your string has settled and should have a twist or 2 added if both cams are like that and your ata is long-if your ata is right remove twist to both cables.


thanks, I'll give that a try. BTW, what are all the settings in the cam with the #'s and stuff? I bought the bow used and don't really know much about what does what on the cams?? thanks!!


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## String Twister

the numbers are your let off-the peg must be in the same number hole as your mod number-if you have a number 9 mod you need to be in the #9 hole-one row is 70% let off and the other is 60%.


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## scrapejuice

String Twister said:


> the numbers are your let off-the peg must be in the same number hole as your mod number-if you have a number 9 mod you need to be in the #9 hole-one row is 70% let off and the other is 60%.


thanks


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## NRA republican

Here's something to think about---ONE team shooting PSE X-Forces wins against 3 teams shooting Mathews & 2 teams shooting Hoyts.

http://www.ibo.net/Results/Default.aspx
Class: PMR
event: 2007 National Triple Crown


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## NRA republican

NRA republican said:


> Here's something to think about---ONE team shooting PSE X-Forces wins against 3 teams shooting Mathews & 2 teams shooting Hoyts.
> 
> http://www.ibo.net/Results/Default.aspx
> Class: PMR
> event: 2007 National Triple Crown


CORRECTION:
The X-Force team consisted of two X-Force 6", one X-Force 7", & a Mojo SD.

http://forums.pse-archery.com/showthread.php?t=36730
Looks like the X-Force 7 has the accuracy advantage.


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## coyote hunter

i've shot mathews for the past 6 years and love it. but i shot the x-force and thought it shot extremely well. What kind of non detachable quivers would be best for it?


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## NRA republican

coyote hunter said:


> i've shot mathews for the past 6 years and love it. but i shot the x-force and thought it shot extremely well. What kind of non detachable quivers would be best for it?


I like the PSE 2 piece quiver.


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## jimbow56

It's hard to add a "wish it had" statement to all of this, but I wish it had an 80% let off! (old guy, old shoulders)


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## scrapejuice

Does anyone have a STS on theirs? Did it help to quiten it any? Did it change your point of impact with your arrows? Any other obvious effects? What kind of STS did you get?

Thanks, Greg


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## J Name

I put the dura vane string tamer junior on mine and it took away the noise and it feels alot smoother.


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## Bnbfishin

I asked Jim Posten on here (you may know him for his custom stabilizers  ) to make up a string suppresor for my X-Force 6 and 7 and this is what he came up with. It fits perfectly and works GREAT!! No obvious effects other than removing any twang that was there before. No change of impact nor change in speed. It's called an SJS. Tell him I sent ya  In the pictures are some of his stabilizers.


scrapejuice said:


> Does anyone have a STS on theirs? Did it help to quiten it any? Did it change your point of impact with your arrows? Any other obvious effects? What kind of STS did you get?
> 
> Thanks, Greg


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## GroundhogCK

NRA Republican, looks like we have the same preferences in arrow flinging equipment (not to mention politics)! Just got my new XF6 set up last week with my trusty old limbdriver (the early version sure fits nice against the riser and looks clean on this bow), and I'm releasing the arrows with a Quickie 1+ (80# spring is perfect) as well! 

I've also got a Posten Slimm Jimmz setup on mine (Bnbfishin and I tend to agree on what the best stabs are!  ), an HHA DS-5019 sight, a Specialty Archery super peep w/ an 1/8" aperture, a P.O.S. string suppressor (POS = "Piece of Steel," made by fellow AT'er JLH), and a slingbraid single wide wrist sling (made by fellow AT'er beenfarr)...

I'm waiting on a Bucknasty (again from AT) 452x string and cable set for it, but right now the string and cable already seems to be shot in pretty well and the bow is shooting so well as is I'm not as motivated to get that on the bow as quickly as I thought I would be! (still convinced the aftermarket string/cable is the way to go through, and it's really the ONLY thing on this bow that I'd change)

The last change I'm going to make eventually for hunter class 3d is to put on a Viper microTune sight w/ 0.010 pins... 3 pins out to 40 yards, and then the 4th pin for long distance novelty targets (thanks for the tip on that one Bnb!).

Shooting at 26" draw, 63-64#, w/ a 27" 325 grain Carbon Express CXL SS at 299 fps! (going to have to get a heavier arrow or point weight to get under 288 for any ASA).

This bow has no other silencing/vibration damping equipment other than the P.O.S. and it's completely silent and dead in the hand.

I'm already shooting this bow better than I've shot any bow in my life, and I think it has everything to do with the super solid back wall, B.E.S.T. grip (which is the BEST grip I've ever shot), and the superb balance and steady hold of this bow at full draw. 

I can't believe how accurate this 6" BH bow is -- the short brace height has never even entered my mind, I haven't had string slap even once out of around 250 arrows through it, and I'm finally shooting a bow that gives this short draw archer a respectable power stroke. First time I had it out on the range was last Friday, and I was shooting fist-size groups at 40 yards, and pounding X's at 20 yards on the 5-spot target like I never have before.

One last note is that I had this bow paper tuned w/ the limbdriver in 3 arrows, and I had to make ZERO walkback tuning adjustments out to 40 yards after that. That's by far the quickest tune I've ever had on any bow, and the arrow reference marks machined into the riser have everything to do with that.

I'm VERY impressed with this bow so far...


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## NRA republican

The original X-force is the most accurate shooting bow I've owned & I've owned a number of different makes & models over many years, most with higher brace height & longer ATA, including mathews . These new PSE bows might make you rethink the rules for accurate bow design---brace height, ATA, reflex/deflex, etc. PSE has spoiled me. I plan to get a PSE Dream Season & PSE Moneymaker to see how far I can go with with accuracy.


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## bucksnortinted

Sportsman11 said:


> My archery buddy and i recently shot a 3d tournament and a shooter a target behind us was shooting the x force and we both agreed it was the loudest nastiest sounding bow we've ever heard. honestly we could hear him every time he shot and he was ATLEAST 40-50 yards behind us the whole me. i've also drawn the bow and its definately not top end bow caliber. i will continue to stay from pse and continue shooting my ross


it was probally the arrow hitting the target they smack em harder than any bow i have seen so far,you are the first person i have ever heard that said an x force was loud and as far as being top end bow caliber,they are a rock solid bow and company with customer service second to none,you might of drawn one back but i can tell by the way your talking that you have not shot one you should really think of taking a good examination on your statement if you have not shot the bow because there sweeeeeeeet best bow i have ever owned.............Ted


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## camoman73

*Loud?*

Gimme a break man i own the x-force dream season, been a mathews shooter all my life until this year this bow is quiet! Id say it is quieter than my previose drenalin. I put an sts on this pse and wow dead in the hands!
Have fun with your discontinued ross. G5 or bowtech whatever it is now?


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## Xiisign

Great shooting.....you always wonder if you have sheared a vane or feather off when you group'em that tight but man it feels good don't it???


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## WA Elk hunter

*I too have one of the "ugly" bows...*

The AR velocity. I shot the Mach X with an 8" brace height, and all you lose with the 6.5 in BH of the Velocity is nothing, it is as accurate and much faster. Same arrows in both bows yielded 15 fps more with the AR. I don't put much credence in the short BH is inaccurate business, too many design factors come into play. I can predict by looking at the bow which one will be critical to shoot, and which will not. John


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## NRA republican

*Norb Mullaney bow report*

For those interested, there's a bow report (on PSE X-Force Dream Season) by Norb Mullaney in the June 2008 issue of Bowhunting World magazine. That issue may not be on the magazine racks yet.


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## Tylord

*X6*

I am getting a X-Force 6 60# and I was wondering what the Minimum Arrow weight would be for this bow if i were to keep it at 58-60# 

just wondering how much FPS I can squeeze out of this bow!!

I'm thinking about shooting Gold Tip Pro 22 series Ultralight 300's
Would this be a good arrow?


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## Tylord

ttt


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## Sagittandum amo

I was wondering why you have a peep-sight when you have a timberline no-peep?


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## Sagittandum amo

NRA republican said:


> Here's a couple pics to demonstrate the PSE X-force 6" BH bow accuracy. 4 arrow group from 40 yards with 60#, 27" draw, Easton Lightspeed 400 shafts, Blazer vanes, 125 gr points, Carter Quickie 1+ release. Been doing alot of experimenting with draw weight, draw length, Arrow FOC, different releases, stabilizer combinations, etc. Looks like I may have found a sweet spot. To date, no other bow has been as accurate for me. I think the "B.E.S.T." grip & lower berger button hole has alot to do with it. I'd really like to see what the PSE Dream Season & Moneymaker can do.


Oops, I should have quoted this first.


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## NRA republican

Tylord said:


> I am getting a X-Force 6 60# and I was wondering what the Minimum Arrow weight would be for this bow if i were to keep it at 58-60#
> 
> just wondering how much FPS I can squeeze out of this bow!!
> 
> I'm thinking about shooting Gold Tip Pro 22 series Ultralight 300's
> Would this be a good arrow?


http://www.pse-archery.com/pdf/X-Force Data.pdf

That should answer your question about speed & arrow weight. Looks like 5 grains per pound is minimum.
Haven't tried GT Pro22's. I prefer Easton/Beman shafts for consistency.



Sagittandum amo said:


> I was wondering why you have a peep-sight when you have a timberline no-peep?


I just use a peep to be able to see through center of string.


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## sq246

*shock*

I'm surprised no one noticed or commented on the comparitive movement of the various bows after the shot. Wow, some big differences there!

JMHO


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## MIKEY CUSTOM-G

*further along the way*

well to add some more fire to this flame,,,,i finally got my 82nd airborne finished. i had a difficult time adjusting to the 82nd because it is not brass nocking point or string kisser friendly as it comes out of the factory.

i removed the bowtech factory string catch and placed a string tamer junior below the rest. the bow shoots fine now.

all said and done,,,i spent DOUBLE setting up the bowtech as i did the pse x-force 6 and the bowtech is not as good overall.

the 82nd is a couple feet per second faster but is louder and has a bit more vib than the x-force 6.

i do like the 82nd airborne while it sits at full draw better then the x-force,,,,so i guess the binary feels better than the cam and a half.

i still feel the x-force is the best hunting bow available for any price anywhere all said and done. 

can't wait to see what this monster 5 will be like.:slice:


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## MIKEY CUSTOM-G

*hmmmm*



FloridaHunter99 said:


> For all u x forcers..What kind of speeds can i be getting out of an 80lb x force 6 with say 400gr. arrow and a 28inch draw?


well mine is a 28.5 inch draw with winners choice strings and cables,,,,71 pounds,g-5 speed peep,full draw kisser,and 1 brass nock. i am shooting a easton ACC 360 arrow that is also 28.5 inches long,,,with e-z cresting and a 100 grain head,,,fully done it weighs in @ 430 grains,,,and i get 305 fps.

at 80 pounds,,,and less weight.....wow,,,you might be 25 fps more then me. i'd be curious as to what you get. i always have shot a 80+ pound bow and only recently when i went to single cammed bows did i slide down to a 70 pound bow. actually i short string one of my bows and it is hitting 75 pounds.


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## webbdogg

Lots of good info in this thread. Thanks!


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## engholm

I'm selling a pse x force 7 if anyone intereasted pm me


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## MIKEY CUSTOM-G

*plenty !!!!`*



FloridaHunter99 said:


> For all u x forcers..What kind of speeds can i be getting out of an 80lb x force 6 with say 400gr. arrow and a 28inch draw?


i am shooting or was shooting around 72 pounds,,,with a 430 grain ACC 360 @ 28.5 draw and getting 305 with a kisser,brass nock and peep.

with 80 pounds,,,basically the same draw length because these bows run long on draw,,,and a LIGHTER arrow,,,,you would have to get around 325-330...my opinon and i have nothing theoretical to figure it,,,just guesstimate.

i have a couple pictures of some tight groups with my x-6. i actually have them as a screen saver,,,but i cant somehow figure how to post them for you to see. the bow is a rock solid consistent shooter.


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## DFA

Mikey, You are right on with those numbers 325 to 330fps
DFA


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## engholm

When i first picked up my x force 7 i loved it, FAST,FAST, and did i say did i mention accurate too? I didnt think the boy had much hand shock and was pretty quiet. I picked up a bowtech guardain and that sucker has absolutly no hand shock and a smooth draw. Now i know its like comparing apples with oranges oen being a speed bow vs smooth bow. I like both bows but heres my gripe about x forces, THe retail value. My buddie sells bowtech bows fast as can be. I'm trying to sell my pse x force 7 thats absolutly mint, and the resale is much, much lower and im having troubles getting rid of it. I had it posted as mint x force 7 with trophy ride drop away rest and TR guide matrix site and no buddy has jumped on it with 525 TYD. How come PSE seems to have less value than bowtech, and i have trouble getting rid of my pse?


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## krazycurt

I really like my x force Its agood shooter , accurate,silent and right now its broken.Should be back soon from PSE getting riser replaced.


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## RAZOR62

krazycurt said:


> I really like my x force Its agood shooter , accurate,silent and right now its broken.Should be back soon from PSE getting riser replaced.


What happened to the riser? Pressed Wrong??? Run over by a truck?


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## krazycurt

RAZOR62 said:


> What happened to the riser? Pressed Wrong??? Run over by a truck?


Actually I had turned my limb bolts down 2 turns for late bow season as it was below zero and when I started target shooting I was turning it back up the 2 turns did the top limb got a turn and half on bottom and it binded alittle so I backed it off half a turn then turned it the full turn that it needed and the bottom limb bolt pulled out half an inch, threads and all. So PSE is taking care of it with a new riser.


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## MIKEY CUSTOM-G

*well*



engholm said:


> When i first picked up my x force 7 i loved it, FAST,FAST, and did i say did i mention accurate too? I didnt think the boy had much hand shock and was pretty quiet. I picked up a bowtech guardain and that sucker has absolutly no hand shock and a smooth draw. Now i know its like comparing apples with oranges oen being a speed bow vs smooth bow. I like both bows but heres my gripe about x forces, THe retail value. My buddie sells bowtech bows fast as can be. I'm trying to sell my pse x force 7 thats absolutly mint, and the resale is much, much lower and im having troubles getting rid of it. I had it posted as mint x force 7 with trophy ride drop away rest and TR guide matrix site and no buddy has jumped on it with 525 TYD. How come PSE seems to have less value than bowtech, and i have trouble getting rid of my pse?


first of all if your buddy can sell bowtechs,,,i have a minter than mint bowtech 82nd airborne. its hardly been shot. custom strings from mike in ohio,QAD LD rest and a string tamer junior that i would love to sell.....

as for the x-force resales ??? well $575 is not a bargain for a x-force mint or not. i can right now buy a 2008 x-force 6 which is a faster bow,and its a "demo bow" meaning a store staff shooter who is a friend of my brother's shot it,,,and it has never been technically owned,meaning the waranty has NOT been registered. this means its still new....as best as i can figure. i can buy this bow,,,and register it new with pse as mine and get the lifetime waranty for $475. granted it needs to be set up some,,,but it has a full factory waranty. i am contemplating buying this bow and shoot 3-d with it. i have not shot 3-d in 15 years and now we have a archery range fairly close to my home so i am thinking of doing it again.


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## revj

I may get a first year run x force in a couple more years by then I can afford one, hahahaha
Mikey why don't you keep the 82nd?


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## bowhunters97

Other than the short axle to axle, what is the draw backs of the Tree Stand model. I know the IBO rating isn't near the 6 or 7.


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## krazycurt

*Got my X force back now what*



krazycurt said:


> Actually I had turned my limb bolts down 2 turns for late bow season as it was below zero and when I started target shooting I was turning it back up the 2 turns did the top limb got a turn and half on bottom and it binded alittle so I backed it off half a turn then turned it the full turn that it needed and the bottom limb bolt pulled out half an inch, threads and all. So PSE is taking care of it with a new riser.


Got it back 60 lb model now it only goes to 55 they cliam its because of WC strings and cables.I say if the bow was put back in specs as they claim it was WC stirings and cables shouldnt matter. They did replace the riser but now on the draw after every shot it has a clunk on lower limb that I cant seem to find. When the WC strings were put on originaly the bow shot great and It still reached 60lbs no problem.So I will be sending it back again seeing as they caused the problem they can fix it.Im beginning to wish now I wouldnt of bought a PSE


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## trimantrekokc

krazycurt said:


> Got it back 60 lb model now it only goes to 55 they cliam its because of WC strings and cables.I say if the bow was put back in specs as they claim it was WC stirings and cables shouldnt matter. They did replace the riser but now on the draw after every shot it has a clunk on lower limb that I cant seem to find. When the WC strings were put on originaly the bow shot great and It still reached 60lbs no problem.So I will be sending it back again seeing as they caused the problem they can fix it.Im beginning to wish now I wouldnt of bought a PSE


what is the ATA? BH? is it within spec? where are the timing marks in relation to the string? did it get put on the minus post? i know you posted on the PSE sight also...did you have the black covers on the bottom of th elimbs in th elimb pocket before you sent it back? if so, are they still there? did they by chance replace your rockers that the limbs sit on? did they replace the riser when you sent it back? or just replace the limb bolt barrels?


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## krazycurt

trimantrekokc said:


> what is the ATA? BH? is it within spec? where are the timing marks in relation to the string? did it get put on the minus post? i know you posted on the PSE sight also...did you have the black covers on the bottom of th elimbs in th elimb pocket before you sent it back? if so, are they still there? did they by chance replace your rockers that the limbs sit on? did they replace the riser when you sent it back? or just replace the limb bolt barrels?


ATA is 33 1/8 BH is 5 7/8 Timing marks are on the riser side of string even with front of string.Middle post on string post.Yes they replaced riser and yes my limbs had the black covers when I sent it in an now it does not.As far as the rockers I dont know they said no.


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## trimantrekokc

krazycurt said:


> ATA is 33 1/8 BH is 5 7/8 Timing marks are on the riser side of string even with front of string.Middle post on string post.Yes they replaced riser and yes my limbs had the black covers when I sent it in an now it does not.As far as the rockers I dont know they said no.


i know i lost some weight when i took the black covers off....topped out with at 62# tops out now at 58.....it's amazing the thickness of it can change the angle of the limbs enough to lose the weight.....if your shop has some laying around you might slide them in and see if it helps gets your weight back...or check to see if maybe there is another (thicker) rocker available....
bh is a little short and ATA is slightly long...hummm...timing marks on riser side...are the limbs at 3/16" from riser on the pocket? have you tried twsiting your cables to shorten the ATA to an even 33"? that if i'm thinking right should increase the draw weight a little...


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## krazycurt

Well my x force is on its way back to PSE for the third time They fixed it and sent it back only to still have that annoying click when you draw it back after the shot. Come to find out the top cam is bent on the bottom near the timing mark . And this bow has not been dry fired or had a blown nock unless it was done at the factory, maybe they replaced my cams with damaged ones who knows.Ive been without this bow almost all of this year I think this is B.S.


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