# BEST method recurve grips...



## Huntmaster (Jan 30, 2003)

How about a shot down the face of the grip. At what angle is the build up cut down at to the other side of the grip?


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## Seattlepop (Dec 8, 2003)

*Nice*

Can you show different views/angles?

Is there a price yet?


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## bownut-tl. (Sep 21, 2003)

*Grip Slope*

John,

When you set your hand in, is the left side of the grip positioned higher than the right side for a RH shooter or is it level all the way across?

Terry


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

The left side is higher than the right, for a RH archer. And the edge of the grip follows the lifeline. This design puts the pressure point at the base of the thumb.

I should add that I am not paid, sponsored or profitting in any way from these grips. I like Paul and his business (he's an innovator), and thought that these should be available to archers wanting to learn the BEST method. I showed Jamie Loesch the same grip, and made him the same offer ( to borrow my grip ).

Paul had been asked about the grips coach Lee was making already, so he was anxious to take a shot at building something like this.

Obviously, I'm not coach Lee, so his interpretation of a proper grip for each archer may very well be different than this. This is just the closest I could come to duplicating the grips I've seen him make, based on what he taught me.

John.


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## RecordKeeper (May 9, 2003)

Great pics, limbwalker!

I have to have one! Lefty, of course:tongue: 

And if nobody minds, I'd love to throw some shameless promotion to Jager Grips...they are an AT sponsor!

You can PM Jager Grips here:

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/member.php?u=34335

And you can visit their website here:

http://www.jagerarchery.com/


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## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

wonder what sort of delivery time-I have a few matrix's


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## Eolla (Jan 19, 2005)

Limbwalker, this is greatly beneficial to all archers, we all you a big Thank You. I currently shoot an Axis but dont like the stock grip, I will get one of the Jager grips, again thanks you for sharing your time and effort with us


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Jim, we might have to wait until Mondy to find out. I tried to call Paul, but couldn't reach him this afternoon. I just got the grips when I came home from work today.

Eolla, I just hope they work as well for others as they do for me. Grips are so personal, that some folks won't care for them. At first, Paul didn't understand the shape. That's because the knuckles on his bow hand were too vertical. But when I put his hand in the proper position (that coach Lee teaches), his eyebrows raised right up! 

Most folks have the knuckles on their bowhand too vertical. Coach Lee explains that you should hold your hand out as if you are telling someone to "STOP!" When you do this, the knuckles of your bow hand are at least at a 45 degree angle to the ground, if not even closer to parallel with the horizon. And if you assume this position with your bowhand in this grip, it will provide a very comfortable, consistent pressure point at the base of the thumb.

Try to grip this with your knuckes too vertical, and the ridge on the left side will hit the middle of your hand. It won't feel right at all.

John.


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## Eolla (Jan 19, 2005)

Man I'm so impressed I just sent an order for one!!


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## kninetik (Dec 1, 2006)

Same here. Thanks John for bringing this to our attention!

Mike :wolf:


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## Hoytemgood (Aug 19, 2006)

*High Wrist vs Low Wrist*

I specifically asked Coach Lee at Colo Springs last summer if he was promoting a high wrist or a low wrist. He said low wrist and held his hand out in a low wrist grip position. This looks to be high wrist or at least much higher then what we shoot. We shoot Loesch Low Wrist grips (not the very low, next one up). Has Coach Lee always done this higher wrist or is this something new?


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## geekdoc (Jan 8, 2007)

*GM riser*

John
any options for GM riser, other than bondo?


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Geekdoc, this grip will fit the GM riser.

Hoytem, coach Lee does advocate a lower wrist. But I think something is lost in translation, because all his students have grips that most Americans consider rather high. I think what he means is for the pressure point to be lower in the thumb and not up by the webbing between the thumb and first finger. A lot of high wrist grips that aren't shaped like this will put the pressure point up in the webbing of the hand. That is not correct. Despite the fact that this grip looks high to the naked eye, when you place your hand in it, the pressure is rather low in the base of the thumb, as I believe coach Lee is promoting.

Hey, I could be wrong though. But based on what I've seen him build in person, and what he's shown me, and what all the students and RA's use, this is as close as I can get.

I've tried a lot of grips. Low plastic Hoyt's (old ones for the GM like Vic uses), low wood hoyts and spig's, low and medium Pro Medalist TD grips, Loesch grips, PSE/Loesch grips (my favorite custom until now), New PSE "alan rasor" grips (very nice also), and I always keep coming back to the stock medium plastic $16 avalon grips. That's one of the reasons I shoot the BEST Zenit, because it takes this kind of grip. So, when coach Lee showed me how to build up the lower left side of the stock Hoyt plastic grip, it made my favorite grip even better.

John.


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## Hoytemgood (Aug 19, 2006)

limbwalker said:


> Geekdoc, this grip will fit the GM riser.
> 
> Hoytem, coach Lee does advocate a lower wrist. But I think something is lost in translation, because all his students have grips that most Americans consider rather high. I think what he means is for the pressure point to be lower in the thumb and not up by the webbing between the thumb and first finger. A lot of high wrist grips that aren't shaped like this will put the pressure point up in the webbing of the hand. That is not correct. Despite the fact that this grip looks high to the naked eye, when you place your hand in it, the pressure is rather low in the base of the thumb, as I believe coach Lee is promoting.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the info. I was kind of wondering if I missed something in the translation and that is why I asked.


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## e_m_i_l_y (May 10, 2006)

Hi John,

Would it fit the Helix too?

Emily


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Sorry Emily, but it won't fit the Helix. Only the Hoyt risers that took the "avalon" grip, as that is what this is based on. It would fit your beloved Elan riser though 

Because the Helix has the Ortho and Ergo grip options already, I'm not sure there would be enough demand for this style grip for those risers.

John.


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## TexARC (Mar 5, 2003)

I posted on the TSAA website, more than a YEAR AGO, some information about BEST bowgrips. The "BEST" bowgrip is actually that espoused by Don Rabska for years - he made one specifically for Linds. You might see something somewhat familiar here:
http://texasarchery.org/L1/bidnessads.htm#jg . note the angle?

I sent them a grip set up by DR and they used it as a model and created helix-based BEST grips for Lindsey, when Helix were being shipped to only a few team shooters. This when the Ortho grip had not yet been released by GT et al. 
Also, both JG and James Loesch have made BEST-mode grips for Linds - for the Aeotech as well. So there are loads of options for anyone wanting a best-style custom grip. They need only have looked on the bidness ads page. :darkbeer: 

Also, this link has been up for a couple of years: 
http://texasarchery.org/Documents/BowGrips/BowGrip.htm Again, note the angle of the face of the grip


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## Hutnicks (Feb 9, 2006)

Those are really beautiful. Thanks for posting.

They sort of remind me of the old Walther OSP free pistol grips.

Wonder if there is any way to make a sort of universal model, with perhaps an insert or something for some of the more offbeat risers.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Ron, I was hoping you'd speak up on this issue. You're absolutely right. This information isn't "new" by any stretch. Your excellent instructions, based on Don's information, have been available to those who were determined enough to find good grip info... 

The other options (Loesch/JG) apparently weren't very well known or advertised, which is one reason I went to Paul at Louisville last weekend. Well, that and he's the only one making the dual-density grips, which I think is another step forward in grip technology, AND that his grips are half as expensive as the wood options... 

I myself tried to follow those on-line instructions several times, but never could get it "just right" until coach Lee showed me in person. I can be a little dense and ham-fisted sometimes... For the do-it-yourselfer though, the grip putty is still the least expensive option. Just be prepared to do it three or four times, and then still wonder if you got it just right... 

Hopefully there is no excuse now for someone who wants a better grip for thier avalon-compatible riser... Even if they don't want to experiment with plumber's putty, grip-maker or a rasp. In fact, it looks like there are at least 3 custom options available today, although those grips by JG don't exactly look like anything I've ever seen before...

John.


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## nocksetpliers (Jan 23, 2007)

limbwalker said:


> Geekdoc, this grip will fit the GM riser.
> 
> Hoytem, coach Lee does advocate a lower wrist. But I think something is lost in translation, because all his students have grips that most Americans consider rather high. I think what he means is for the pressure point to be lower in the thumb and not up by the webbing between the thumb and first finger. A lot of high wrist grips that aren't shaped like this will put the pressure point up in the webbing of the hand. That is not correct. Despite the fact that this grip looks high to the naked eye, when you place your hand in it, the pressure is rather low in the base of the thumb, as I believe coach Lee is promoting.
> 
> ...




Is it possible to make a really low grip suited for the BEST system? I've had lot's of trouble with grips higher than hoyt's stock plastic medium wrist grips. I tend to get pain in my lower thumb.


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## Cuthbert (Nov 28, 2005)

limbwalker said:


> Sorry Emily, but it won't fit the Helix. Only the Hoyt risers that took the "avalon" grip, as that is what this is based on. It would fit your beloved Elan riser though
> 
> Because the Helix has the Ortho and Ergo grip options already, I'm not sure there would be enough demand for this style grip for those risers.
> 
> John.



John,

You saw the other grip I was working on for Helix/nexus. It provides much the same fit and pressure points as the grip you provided me to make your grip. The only reason it's not more like your grip is that on the helix there is a riser clearance issue. If it's too dramatic, you make contact with the riser strut that runs behind your thumb. I should have a few pictures to offer tomorrow.

I'm glad you like yours, and sorry I didn't get back to you today. I didn't even know I had a message til I read you tried to contact me.


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## fun4afew (Dec 9, 2005)

*X-Factor grips*

I have a couple of his grips on my X Factors and really like them!


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

> I've had lot's of trouble with grips higher than hoyt's stock plastic medium wrist grips. I tend to get pain in my lower thumb.


Actually, this grip isn't any "higher" than the stock plastic medium Hoyt grip. The only difference is that the lower left portion of the grip has been "squared off" or built up to the same level as the center of the grip. Like I said, it looks high because it doesn't taper down at the bottom, but the angle your hand fits in it is actually about the same angle as the stock plastic Hoyt grip.

Having said that though, I do think you could make a low version of this that still promotes proper hand position. It is something I'd like to experiment with. If you could find an old "low" plastic Hoyt grip, you could make one, but those grips are scarce as hen's teeth these days. 

Paul, I don't recall seeing that Helix/Nexus grip, but I'm glad to hear you've got it covered. You've got a PM...

John.


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## IM2BZ2P2 (Oct 7, 2004)

limbwalker said:


> Most folks have the knuckles on their bowhand too vertical. Coach Lee explains that you should hold your hand out as if you are telling someone to "STOP!" When you do this, the knuckles of your bow hand are at least at a 45 degree angle to the ground, if not even closer to parallel with the horizon.


Mmmm?

Out of 7 people sitting here NONE have a knuckle angle of anywhere near 45 degrees doing this ... closer to 10-20 ground degrees from parallel to the ground.


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## bownut-tl. (Sep 21, 2003)

*Grip Angle*

In the Coaches class at the OTC in Colorado last month, One of the slides Coach Lee used to explain this issue showed the knuckle angle as being between 10 to 20 degrees. He said a 45 degree angle should not be used.

Terry


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Terry, I've never been able to quite reach that 10-20 degree angle, but I'm a lot closer to it than I was before. Until coach Lee showed me how to build a grip, I couldn't do better than 45 degrees.

John.


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## jhinaz (Mar 1, 2003)

Now I'm confused  In post #9 Limbwalker says Coach Lee wants to see the knuckles at 45 degrees, then in post #26/27 of the same thread Coach Lee wants to see the knuckles at 10 - 20 degrees and that 45 degrees should not be used??????? Curious minds want to know. - John


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## Progen (Mar 17, 2006)

limbwalker said:


> ..., if not even closer to parallel with the horizon.


I think you forgot this addition.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

> are at least at a 45 degree angle to the ground, if not even closer to parallel with the horizon


Is what I wrote. Probably should have said more parallel to the ground than 45 degrees. Either way, it's far from vertical and a departure from how a lot of folks place their hand in the bow grip. Done properly, the index finger knuckle will usually rise above the shelf on the riser. 

John.


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## bownut-tl. (Sep 21, 2003)

John,

Absolutely correct. That is one of the reasons for the downward left to right slope of the grip (RH shooter) and why the bow hand placement in the grip is so important.

Terry


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## jhinaz (Mar 1, 2003)

Limbwalker and bownut,

My bad. Now I understand you, the 10-20 degrees is making the knuckles MORE horizontal, not less horizontal. In my mind I was rotating the knuckles in the wrong direction to get to 10 - 20°, which would make the hand almost straight up-and-down. - John


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## Canjapan2003 (Jun 3, 2006)

*Win win options?*

Are there any options for an Expert?


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## Enure (Apr 11, 2007)

This is ace John thanks for taking the time to share.

Shoot an Axis myself and have been using the grip it came with all this time finding that the closer i reached a more preferable grip the more it forced it into the webbing of my hand.

I've shot off a PM to Cuthbert and when the next student loan comes in i intend to check these out. They look like ace grips from a material standpoint anyway so very keen to test them out .

Once again thanks for sharing and putting in the work.


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## calbowdude (Feb 13, 2005)

Hey John, 

Have you tried your Jagergrip onto your Axis yet? I went and checked my Aerotec (close to the Best Zenit) and my Axis, and the Axis riser would necessitate a spacer into the grip to keep it from rattling. The Axis riser's grip area is thinner than the Aerotec's by a good amount, 1/8" it looks like.

Larry


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Enure, those student loans are for tuition, not bow grips! ha, ha, ha.

Larry, the Axis riser is supposed to have 2 spacers on either side of that narrow grip section. That was to allow the archer to move the centerline of the grip left or right if they wanted to. If you don't have those spacers, you could just make some out of thick plastic or thin wood pieces shaped to fit in those spaces. 

With the spacers in place, the Axis takes any grip that the other older Hoyts take (avalon style).

John.


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## Hutnicks (Feb 9, 2006)

limbwalker said:


> Enure, those student loans are for tuition, not bow grips! ha, ha, ha.
> 
> Larry, the Axis riser is supposed to have 2 spacers on either side of that narrow grip section. That was to allow the archer to move the centerline of the grip left or right if they wanted to. If you don't have those spacers, you could just make some out of thick plastic or thin wood pieces shaped to fit in those spaces.
> 
> ...


LW, Could you post the inside measurement of those grips?


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## calbowdude (Feb 13, 2005)

John,

Thanks for that info. My Axis has a Loesch on it, and I can't locate any of the original plastic Hoyt grips for it, or rather I should say that I can get a stock grip for 400-500, and a free riser comes with it.  

I'll mess around with some spacers eventually, after I get one of Paul's sweet-looking grips. 

Larry


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## pencarrow (Oct 3, 2003)

John;
Will they fit a Winstar II ?

Fritz


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Huntnicks,

The space inside the grip is 5/8" or about 16mm wide

Fritz, I have no idea if they will fit at Winstar. With your ingenuity however, I don't doubt you could make one work. Although Paul doesn't yet have a Lefty version. 

John.


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## RecordKeeper (May 9, 2003)

limbwalker said:


> Huntnicks,
> 
> The space inside the grip is 5/8" or about 16mm wide
> 
> ...


Actually, I just sent him a lefty Hoyt grip so he can design a lefty version of your grip.:wink:


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## Hutnicks (Feb 9, 2006)

Thanks for that info. I was considering the possibility of splitting the grip and making an insert, but I would hate like 'ell to butcher them. Perhaps a two piece grip with and extra 5 or 6 mill of meat, would accomate a larger variety of riser.


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## pencarrow (Oct 3, 2003)

John:
The old Hoyt t/d 2 grips fit the Winstar II fine, if that means anything.

Fritz


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## Progen (Mar 17, 2006)

Recordkeeper said:


> Actually, I just sent him a lefty Hoyt grip so he can design a lefty version of your grip.:wink:


Wouldn't it be just a simple matter of flipping the plan for the mould horizontally and having one made that way?

Anyway, thanks, Recordkeeper. I'll be needing two of those lefty ones myself.


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## badcompany (Aug 21, 2005)

*confussed*

I was trying to use the search function to find out what "low wrist/high wrist " meant and came upon this thread. Now I am hearing the "best" method which I have no idea about. Would any one care to explain the difference in wrist with grips.
I just purchased a hoyt 38 ultra and it just doesn't feel right when I shoot. I have been shooting a mathews lx for 4 years and moved to the hoyt. Trying to determine if another grip might be what I need. Thanks


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

> Wouldn't it be just a simple matter of flipping the plan for the mould horizontally and having one made that way?


I think it's not that simple. I believe Paul told me that my old grip WAS the mould for the new grip... So he would need to build a Lefty and then use it for the mould, I think. But I don't know for sure. I'm not the "plastic surgeon"... he is!

Badcompany,

Compound grips are a whole other ball of wax. What's "high" to a compound shooter (and nowdays some recurve shooters that grew up on compounds) is medium or low to a recurver. Because of the direction of force applied to an archer's grip, a recurve grip needs to function a little differently than a compound grip. 

John.


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## northshoremb (Aug 5, 2003)

limbwalker said:


> I think it's not that simple. I believe Paul told me that my old grip WAS the mould for the new grip... So he would need to build a Lefty and then use it for the mould, I think. But I don't know for sure. I'm not the "plastic surgeon"... he is!
> 
> Badcompany,
> 
> ...


Limbwalker do you have any close up pics or can you get some of a high wrist grip and what yours looks like??? I am just starting Recurve and in compound I shot off the riser with an extreme low grip and want to know why recurve is different?? What happens if you would shoot off the riser on a recurve???


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## TexARC (Mar 5, 2003)

If you want to try to customize your grip to help you achieve a more BEST-like conformation (and I am all for that), I would pass on Coach Lee's instruction to NOT try to achieve it all in one swell foop. MODeration, in other words - add just a little putty at a time, shoot with it for awhile to allow your body to adapt and adjust, and then add a leetle more, so that you don't introduce a huge change in your technique. It's kind of like changing the sensitivity on your mouse to MAX from MIN - for awhile, you are all over the place.... 
One of the benefits of making the grip higher is to move the "thrust" center point that is under your thumb closer to the bow's COG/pivot point, which in theory (!) reduces variability of inflections. You make that change too big too fast and you probably will cause perturbations yew jest cain't handle.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Excellent advice Ron, as usual. I've also heard Coach Lee warn that some archers cannot handle grips that are to high until they are ready for them, if at all. How he knows an archer is ready for them is something I don't yet fully understand.

After considering things for a while (and hearing from some other coaches with BEST method experience), I admit that I may have jumped the gun a bit on declaring this to be a "BEST method" grip design... That's probably not for me to say...



> Hey, I could be wrong though. But based on what I've seen him build in person, and what he's shown me, and what all the students and RA's use, this is as close as I can get.


Hopefully folks read the part about this being MY BEST INTERPRETATION of the type of grip that coach Lee is building for his students, based on what I saw, and what he showed me. 

So, while I stand by this design (shot a 333 at 70M Sunday afternoon with it, so it can't be all bad), please understand that it may not be the right design for everyone, nor should it be. As Ron says, you might have to work you way toward this shape over time...

One of the reasons I felt compelled to offer another grip option out there was the number of really weird built up grips I've seen lately, based on what an archer/parent/coach thought was appropriate for the BEST method. I know coach Lee has had to knock off a lot of putty and start over, and I've done the same with several young archer's grips. Hopefully this will save some folks time and frustration, and give them a good place to start.

John.


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## calbowdude (Feb 13, 2005)

No worries John, I'll consider myself warned. :smile: But, then again, if you actually saw one of my grips, you'd be beseeching me to "get a grip," and get rid of the JB weld and plastic monstrosity that currently resides on my bow. The shape looks close to what my current grip has evolved to, so I'll get one and see whether it indeed works for me.


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## Eolla (Jan 19, 2005)

I got my grip in the post today, thats a custom coloured BEST made and posted to Australia in a week. What exceptional service. I am very impressed with the fit and quality of the grip, I ordered the thumb loop for conveience, nice touch. 

I fiited the grip to my Axis, fits like a glove on the riser and has the room for the spacers to shift left and right. First draw it is immediately apparent how wrong I had the 45 dgree concept. The pressure point is now down on the thumb pad not up in the webbing. It introduces a new feeling in the muscle under my ulna, I am really curious to see how it shoots. 

I wonder what effects the new grip will have on tune as I imagine that there will be more downward pressure on the lower limb

Well done Jager Archery for providing a brilliant product with outstanding service, well done Limbwalker for making it happen and letting us know


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Eolla,

I was equally impressed with Paul Jaeger and his service... Great guy and great product. He deserves to have a chance to produce things like this IMO... And I'm glad he has.

The fact that his custom grips are half the cost of others is just an added bonus, and is consistent with my "don't spend any more than you must" philosophy... 

John.


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## target1 (Jan 16, 2007)

Ok here is the question of the day. Do Korean bows (considering their heritage) already have BEST friendly grips? I've never shot a Hoyt and I am not sure if their is a difference.

Can anyone shed some light here?


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## Progen (Mar 17, 2006)

Ki Sik might be Korean but the B in B.E.S.T. has been practiced worldwide way before he brought it up. :wink:


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## ROB TAYLOR (Nov 23, 2003)

*Not for me*

I have a red one of these grips....it's not for me...but I had to try it out. Anyone want it? $50 shipped TYD in CONUS. Absolutely as new.
-Rob


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## montana1329 (Apr 7, 2007)

*Custom Jager Grip for Helix*



limbwalker said:


> Sorry Emily, but it won't fit the Helix. Only the Hoyt risers that took the "avalon" grip, as that is what this is based on. It would fit your beloved Elan riser though
> 
> Because the Helix has the Ortho and Ergo grip options already, I'm not sure there would be enough demand for this style grip for those risers.
> 
> John.


I just spoke to Paul at Jager and he does make a grip for the Helix, he just cuts the back down a little so it will fit, but he says the pressure points are the same.
Now I just need to pick out the right colors to pimp my ride.
Oh - one cool feature I look forward to trying on his grip as well -- his grips come with a sling on only one side which attaches only to your thumb.
Curious to see how that works out.
And thanks to John for letting us know about these cool grips! :cocktail:


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## Progen (Mar 17, 2006)

That little thumb loop is going to change the way we look at a followthrough if it picks up. :darkbeer:


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## ROB TAYLOR (Nov 23, 2003)

FYI, I sold mine to Hockeyref...thanks all who PMed.
-Rob


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## marianigp (May 1, 2006)

*Got Mine*

I don't know about all that other stuff, but.....I got mine from Paul the other day and shot it for a couple hours.
Took a little getting used to, it felt like a left handed grip (I'm right handed).
But I like it...and the cushion grip is great, like John says, no tape required with this option.

Grips are....at least IMO....a personal preference; so I think you'll just have to try one to see if it works for you or not.


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## Paradoxical Cat (Apr 25, 2006)

Progen said:


> That little thumb loop is going to change the way we look at a followthrough if it picks up. :darkbeer:


Is that thumb loop legal under FITA rules for recurve? I thought that recurve shooters were not allowed to have slings attached to their bows.


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## CloverArchery (Dec 28, 2006)

*I shoot his grips as well*

I shoot one of his grips on the nexus. I love it.....Highly recommended.


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## Progen (Mar 17, 2006)

I was thinking more about archers having twisted or sprained thumbs because with just a thumb loop, you don't have the index finger sharing the load now.  

When the time comes for me to order one, I'll just get the plain grip and stick to my combination wrist / thumb sling. :angel:


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## Enure (Apr 11, 2007)

I have to admit as much as i find the idea of just a thumb sling entertaining i can't imagine it feeling comfortable for me. Personally i like the feel of my finger sling a great deal and it works wonderfully for me without any problems thus i don't feel the need to change it.

That said i got a few of our newer archer to try various slings as they were still shooting without anything and not a single one could get on with just a finger sling and all went with either bow or wrist slings lol. Maybe i'm just odd .

The cushioning stuff looks great though and very keen to try that . Have emailed Paul and shall be ordering soon hopefully!


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Well, a brief update on my grips...

I don't know if Paul designed this, expected it, or realizes it (surely he does) but there seems to be a brief "break in" period on the rubber heel cushion before it really starts to "fit" well. Kinda reminds me of a new baseball glove. Not sure how to describe it, but it is oh-so-nice now... :smile: Even better than when it was new. My hand goes to the same sweet spot every time. Maybe it has something to do with conditioning the surface of the rubber, I'm not sure. But I have to tell you that after a few hundred shots, that grip is better than when it was new for me.

John.


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## SBills (Jan 14, 2004)

I received my grip on Saturday. *Looks great and came very fast. *What a neat concept the dual density is. *I've only shot about 30 arrows with this grip and it is unlike any other I have shot. *It definitely forces a set hand position and so far at short ranges my groups are good and the bow seems to jump straight forward. Need more time with the grip before I truly decide if it is for me.

Thanks John and Paul for a great product.

I'll post pictures later.


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## Dave T (Mar 24, 2004)

I got mine on Monday but didn't get to install it till yesterday. By install I mean fitting it to my Spigarelli 2001 VBS, which is close to a Hoyt but not exactly the same. Half an hour of carefull filing and it is now on.

Only shot a few arrows but will say this. To pick it up in the hand and simply hold the bow feels uncomfortable. Acquire a proper grip and draw the bow and it is much more comfortable and it does indeed position the hand and keep it there. Come to think of it, isn't that what a grip is supposed to do?

I need to shoot it more but this may well be the answer, for some of us.

Dave


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## SBills (Jan 14, 2004)

Pictures of my "BEST" grip on my Best Zenit.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Scott, I love that blue color. Nice...



> To pick it up in the hand and simply hold the bow feels uncomfortable. Acquire a proper grip and draw the bow and it is much more comfortable and it does indeed position the hand and keep it there


Dave, that's the same reaction that Paul had when I showed him the grip originally. You will immediately know if your hand is in the wrong position. Likewise, if it is in the correct position, the grip is very comfortable.

John.


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## montana1329 (Apr 7, 2007)

*Best Grip*

Wow! Paul from Jaeger was great -- he custom made my grip to my custom color specs and shipped it to my door incredibly fast -- within a week. It looks even better than I expected! Good deal $, too. 

This is a grip for the Helix. The back has been cut back to give clearance.

I'm new to the archery world and am obviously not holding it correctly. I have read up on the BEST method, but still am not getting it right because it is a bit uncomfortable & I can tell my hand is not positioned right.

Any pics/diagrams/instructions of proper hand set up that has worked for you?

Thanks!

And thanks again to John and Paul Jaeger for this sweet grip! And to SBills I can see you are a man of fine taste - nice color choice :wink:


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## Guest (May 3, 2007)

Anyone know if he has designed one for a X-Factor yet?

Art


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## Matt Z (Jul 22, 2003)

I ordered one yesterday out of shear interest for my Matrix. I look forward to the experimentation (insert diabolical laugh here). Thanks to all for the effort of creating such a grip for older Hoyt recurves. It was much needed . . .


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## ksarcher (May 22, 2002)

Art,

Post # 23. Yes on the X-Factor.


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## SBills (Jan 14, 2004)

montana1329 said:


> And to SBills I can see you are a man of fine taste - nice color choice :wink:


Ditto. :wink: 

Is the grip he made for your helix the same contour/shape as the ones for the Avalon style risers? It sounded like he trimed the avalon style one to fit the helix?

How do you like that integral sling?


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## Cuthbert (Nov 28, 2005)

SBills said:


> Ditto. :wink:
> 
> Is the grip he made for your helix the same contour/shape as the ones for the Avalon style risers? It sounded like he trimed the avalon style one to fit the helix?
> 
> How do you like that integral sling?


I did initially design a grip that would give more riser clearnace for the helix, but due to popular demand I made on tha is just like the one on Johns Zenit. It also has holes for screws instead of the original glue on version. If there is anyone out there that got the old version and wasn't totally satisfied, send back the old style and I'll send you the new one. I think I only shipped about 4-5 of them. These new helix grips will be available by monday.

Paul


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## Dave T (Mar 24, 2004)

For anyone considering one of these, here's some feedback after a couple days using one.

I've been able to spend two long (1-2 hours) blank bale sessions working on my form and getting a feel for this new grip. About half way through today's session I realized...my hand hadn't moved during the shot one single time in many hundreds of shots. Never had that happen before. This thing is rock solid as far as position goes. If it actually was solid, like wood or plastic, it would probably be uncomfortable but the cushion makes it just settle into place and stay there. I'm going to order two more, one for the other Spigarelli and one for my Best of Italy riser.

My thanks to John for making us aware of this grip and to Paul for making an excellent product!

Dave


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## RecordKeeper (May 9, 2003)

Dave T said:


> For anyone considering one of these, here's some feedback after a couple days using one.
> 
> I've been able to spend two long (1-2 hours) blank bale sessions working on my form and getting a feel for this new grip. About half way through today's session I realized...my hand hadn't moved during the shot one single time in many hundreds of shots. Never had that happen before. This thing is rock solid as far as position goes. If it actually was solid, like wood or plastic, it would probably be uncomfortable but the cushion makes it just settle into place and stay there. I'm going to order two more, one for the other Spigarelli and one for my Best of Italy riser.
> 
> ...



I understand my lefty versions will be shipping out soon! I'm very excited about it!


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## calbowdude (Feb 13, 2005)

Got a blue/white swirl grip for my blue/black aerotec, and it looks great. Paul is a great guy to deal with. Basically all I did was tell him the color on my riser, he asked a few questions about whether I had any strict feelings on anything, and I pretty much let him sort out the color scheme. Most of my bow is blue or black, so having the lighter grip in the middle really sets the whole bow off. I had several guys walk up today and ask where I got the grip. 

If you're not shooting with the base of the thumb, it will feel a bit weird. I've been slowly building up my old grip to get to the "BEST" angle, so it was a fairly easy transition for me. You'll definitely know whether your hand is in there correctly or not!

Big thanks to John and Paul for developing and manufacturing a really awesome product.


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## Corsair (Nov 21, 2005)

I'm probably going to regret asking this question but I am really confused. Is it being said that the "ideal" position for the bow hand is with the knuckles at an angle of 10 to 20 degrees to the horizontal?

10 degrees is nearly horizontal anyway and at 10 degrees there is very little of my thumb pad touching the grip. Perhaps the grip ought to be nearly horizontal too? I can't say I have ever seen people shooting with such hand angles and having tried it myself just now I can understand why - it's bloody uncomfortable and I'm not sure what benefit it is supposed to bestow on the user.

This is not a flame, by the way - just a serious question from someone who is becoming totally flummoxed (is that how you spell it) by this sort of shooting advice.


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## Progen (Mar 17, 2006)

Go easy on me if I'm wrong, folks, but what I reckon is that Ki Sik was trying to have the benefits of a true high grip without actually using one. With this design, the slope forces a slight outward tilt of the thumb resulting in less contact on the throat plus it brings the line of pressure in better line with the bowarm.


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## arrow1347 (Mar 21, 2003)

*grip*

john, is paul making L/H yet?


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Barry, you can contact him on his website or PM him (Cuthbert) here on AT.

I'm not sure if he has the lefties available yet or not, but I know he was getting a lot of requests for them.

John.


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## RecordKeeper (May 9, 2003)

limbwalker said:


> Barry, you can contact him on his website or PM him (Cuthbert) here on AT.
> 
> I'm not sure if he has the lefties available yet or not, but I know he was getting a lot of requests for them.
> 
> John.


I think you'll see some lefties available very soon!:wink:


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## bownut-tl. (Sep 21, 2003)

Corsair,

Hold your bowhand up and slightly curl your fingers by relaxing them. Now look at the angle of the thumb pad relative to the rest of the palm. You will see this pad is not level with the rest of the palm or knuckles. This is why a purely horizontal grip won't work. If you rotate your hand to get the knuckle angle without modifying the grip, your thumb pad will come off the grip. The reason for the angled grip is to accommodate the new knuckle position. One of the reasons for the new knuckle position is to get the bow arm rotated a little bit more toward the right for a right handed shooter. This strengthens the arm to shoulder connection and actually helps with the shoulder alignment. The slightly higher grip is designed to get the bowhand pivot point and pressure point to be closer to together. 

Terry


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## calbowdude (Feb 13, 2005)

Corsair,

Keep in mind that the BEST method is a very good starting point. Ultimately, your coach is going to have to implement some small adjustments to accomodate YOU. Not everyone can get their knuckles 45 degrees, keep bow shoulder completely below arrow line, etc etc. Before I get flamed for this, I have been told this by a very high level archer, a well-respected coach, and the regional HP director. 

However, the general shape of the grip does seem to promote good line and hand position. I found it fairly easy to get into and shoot, and I knew immediately when my hand wasn't in the grip correctly. Essentially, I got the grip mounted, shot a bunch of arrows, and at some point I stopped thinking about the grip.


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## bownut-tl. (Sep 21, 2003)

Calbowdude,

Noone should flame since the statement you made is 100% correct. Each persons bone and muscle structure and the ability to manipulate or control them will dictate what they can and can't do. Existing muscle memory and a shooters ability and desire to change it will also play a major role in being able to make changes. The grip is just a tool that helps one naturally accomplish a part of the shot. It's an "engineering" control that is much better than operator control because it is easily repeatable. 

Terry


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## Corsair (Nov 21, 2005)

Terry and Calbowdude

THanks for your thoughts. I'm not knocking the grips. I think they are beautiful and they look to be an excellent shape. What surprised me was the comment re the knuckles at 10 to 15 degrees to horizontal. If I try to do that all I get left on the grip is the bottom joint of my thumb which is decidedly not comfortable. 

What I try to do is get a comfortable repeatable grip on my bow and leave it at that, but I'm always happy to try to get "correct" form - if I can. 

SIGH - it must be old age affecting me, but I remember when recurve seemed to be so much easier to do than nowadays.


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## bownut-tl. (Sep 21, 2003)

Corsair,

Are you using the new grip and getting the result you described or are you using the stock grip and getting the result? If your using the stock grip, I would expect that to happen. The grip design being discussed elliminates that problem with the knuckles nearly horizontal. It won't work with a stock medium or low grip without some modification to the grip.

Terry


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## Corsair (Nov 21, 2005)

bownut-tl

Hi mate

I'm referring to the stock wooden grip on my W & W Xpert riser - which is a pretty nicely shaped grip by the way and gives reasonably good hand position.

I don't thinik it's the grips fault. Even sitting here now, when I hold my arm outstretched as if gripping a bow and try to screw my hand around such that my knuckles are at a 10 to 15 degree angle to the *horizontal* I find it almost impossible to do AND still get meaningful contact on the grip.

On my hand, my palm is pointing down at the floor for me to get this knuckle angle. 45 degress is the best I can manage and still get reasonable contact. I just don't understand how the 10 to 15 degree angle can work at all.


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## Dave T (Mar 24, 2004)

Corsair said:


> I just don't understand how the 10 to 15 degree angle can work at all.


Corsair,

I'm with you on the above. I can handle the 45 degree thing pretty well and this new grip makes it repeatable and stable. 10 to 15 degrees from horizontal is just not doable for me. Must be an age thing. (LOL)

Dave


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## calbowdude (Feb 13, 2005)

bownut-tl. said:


> Calbowdude,
> 
> Noone should flame since the statement you made is 100% correct. Each persons bone and muscle structure and the ability to manipulate or control them will dictate what they can and can't do. Existing muscle memory and a shooters ability and desire to change it will also play a major role in being able to make changes. The grip is just a tool that helps one naturally accomplish a part of the shot. It's an "engineering" control that is much better than operator control because it is easily repeatable.
> 
> Terry


I think the majority of folks understand this, but there are those who have to take things literally and start spraying the flammable liquid around....

If you can't hit that 10-15 degree angle with the correct grip, I wouldn't worry about it at this point. It takes some training to get things set up correctly, so it may very well not happen for some time, if at all. Go with what ya got, work on what you don't, and have a great time.


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## Corsair (Nov 21, 2005)

DaveT

I'm glad/sorry to see that I'm not the only one so afflicted.

Just to make sure we all understand what we are talking about here, I just knocked up the following diagram on Corel Draw and it shows andgular lines set at the horizontal, 10 degrees, 15 degrees and 45 degrees and superimposed on this is an outline of my knuckles as they really are.

As you can see, 10 degrees, looks absurd and is pretty well impossible for me to achieve. So using the diagram, please explain to me how it SHOULD be done.


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## calbowdude (Feb 13, 2005)

I don't know about anyone else, but I can't hit that 10-15 degree angle either. I use around 45 degrees or so, and that's with a built up grip plus Paul's BEST grip. I find that the bow sits too far out away from the forearm, and I end up using a lot of muscle to keep the bow from rolling off the thumb and back into my face.

That may be a way to check: see what angle promotes the most relaxed bow hand, and go with that.


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## bownut-tl. (Sep 21, 2003)

I have another question to ask before we can guess as to what is going on. Is your bow arm pronated? If it isn't pronated or pronaterd far enough, you'll never get the reduced angle. I tried it just now and withut the pronation I can't get the angle either. Once I pronate my bow arm, my hand simply rotates into position. When the bowarm is fully pronated, you generate more range of motion and this is what allows the hand to rotate further.

Terry


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## Hutnicks (Feb 9, 2006)

I have another nother question. I tried this with a right handed bow and it felt quite stressful in the left hand especially at full draw. I switched over to a left handed bow and it felt quite comfortable. Is this a pure mobility / flexibility issue? I am right handed by nature and (carpal tunnel not withstanding) have a more flexible right hand. If that is the case then perhaps some motion range exercises are in order.


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## Corsair (Nov 21, 2005)

*bownut-tl*



> When the bowarm is fully pronated, you generate more range of motion and this is what allows the hand to rotate further.


Hi

I can get the 10 to 15 degree knuckle angle OK (and yes, my arm is pronated to achieve this) but that isn't the issue.

What I am having trouble with is that with the knuckles in this position, the bow handle only contacts my hand at the base joint of my thumb and this gives no support whatsoever. If you draw a vertical line just to the right of my first knuckle in the diagram you will see this clearly as well.

The maximum angle at which I can get good support from the handle is with the knuckle line at 45 degrees and that support is directly across the thumb pad - which I understood was supposed to be correct. 

The only way that I can see that you would get this degree of support from the 10 to 15 degree angled knuckle line is if the grip handle was angled to the left (for right handed shooters) away from the riser and I've never seen a handle that looks like that ever. It would have to be at an angle of about 30 degrees from the vertical to give the right position.

As I said earlier, I'm not flaming here, I'm not stirring - I'm just completely confused by what has been written earlier about this matter. I've got enough problems with recurve at the momoent without having to try to achieve an unnatural bow hand position - *if that is what is meant by the descriptions given.*


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## Dave T (Mar 24, 2004)

Corsair,

Your diagram fits me perfectly. If I come even close to that 10 degree line I am shooting off my thumb and every book I've ever read about this stuff says that isn't right. I still don't get it.

McKinney said 45 degrees in his book, I think I'll stick with that. (smiley face goes here)

Dave


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Corsair,

Thank you for being so thorough and accurate with your descriptions. I like an inquisitive style - it's how you learn things...

Given your diagram, I'd have to say that my grip is probably closer to 30 degrees, rather than 10-20 degrees.

I agree that if you go too close to the horizontal, it does become absurd. 

It may be useful to go back and look at some of the video available of the Korean men and women from Athens. I do recall several of them achieving grip positions that I once considered unrealistic. 

John.


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## Guest (May 7, 2007)

*Hand position*

I had the same problem with little if any of my tumb left on the grip with the 10 degree position. But, Bownut helped by suggesting I really work at the "hook and grip" position to make sure my bow arm was pronated and my shoulder in the correct position. This aligned my thumb properly with the bow grip coming down my "life" line. I can do it with a standard grip but it is much easier with the new built up grips. (by the way my new one for the X-Factor is on the way).

It may help to get this position if you start at set up.

Just my two cents.

Art


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## bownut-tl. (Sep 21, 2003)

I'll try one last thing. From what you are saying, if I am reading and understanding it correctly, you can get the angle but now there is a gap under the pad of thumb between it and the grip. If that is the case, build up the grip. As I said earlier, a low or medium stock grip will not give the hand the support it needs without being modified. The grip that is being talked about in this thread is not just modified with the slope down to the right. It is also built up to provide the support.

If I am still not understanding what the issue is, I will leave it to others for now.

Terry


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## Corsair (Nov 21, 2005)

*Terry*
You do understand what I am on about.  So, what I should do at this stage is to build up my grip in such a way that at say 15 degrees knuckle angle I still have support under the thumb pad.

It may look a bit odd but whatever works as far as I am concerned. I have some Selleys Knead It at home so I'll try it and see how it goes.

Thanks for your patience. I'm not always good at explaining things and a bit thick at cottoning onto things too..:embara: 

*Limbwalker*

I will take your advice and have a close look at the Korean archer videos - I've got a number on file and this time, I'll really look. Thank you for your patience too.


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## bownut-tl. (Sep 21, 2003)

Tom,

Ok. Now that we are on the same page, I sent you an e-mail that has a picture of the buildup I was talking about. The Texas Archery Association Web site has a link to a page that describes what to do and how to do it. I don't know how to post links and pictures here so others will have to do that if they can help.

Terry


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## Corsair (Nov 21, 2005)

Thanks Terry

I've already got the Texas site on my computer. I'll do a search and see what they have.

Many thanks again.


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## RecordKeeper (May 9, 2003)

I got to see, feel, and hold one of these grips today!

All I can say is WOW!

There is just nothing in the same league as this grip!


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## c0rbuu (May 7, 2007)

Has anybody tried to fit one of Paul's grips on a Winstar II yet? I would love to get one for mine.


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## Progen (Mar 17, 2006)

It seems to be that the outer to inner slope will force the bowhand to rotate outwards and result in the thumb being further forward. Is this right?


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## calbowdude (Feb 13, 2005)

Progen said:


> It seems to be that the outer to inner slope will force the bowhand to rotate outwards and result in the thumb being further forward. Is this right?



Yes.


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## Corsair (Nov 21, 2005)

*For Win & Win bow owners*

If any of you have been reading the "My Newly Modified Recurve Grips" you will know that I shoot a W & W Xpert and have tried to do the grips in line with the BEST theory.

First effort was a bad FAIL.

After a lot of work on the Dremel this am the shape I ended up with was close to the Paul Jager rendition of the BEST grip.

What was very interesting that this second attempt isn't all that different from the factory W & W grip - just a bit of extra putty on the bottom and a bit of the low left side and you're there. That is, assuming I understand what the BEST type of grip looks like.

ANyway, the point is that the grip is comfortable and for W & W owners, I would say that there really isn't very much wrong with your factory grips just as they are. Not surprising I suppose - they are Korean after all


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## toxoman (Sep 10, 2004)

Wow, what service. I emailed Paul over the weekend and he had a grip in the mail Monday morning. Got here today. Service like that is impressive! Now, the riser that it is intended for needs to get here. 

-mike


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## Matt Z (Jul 22, 2003)

I ordered my grip last Thursday and it arrived the following Monday. Great service indeed.

I've read the book, but have not implemented the BEST system into my shooting to the degree some have. I purposely bought the grip to provoke more experimentation into the BEST system.

I installed the grip and fired out about 50 arrows. My immediate reaction is how it felt by putting the pressure on the meat of the V thumb rather than the inner thumb/palm. I will say that a relaxed bow hand is automatic with the hand positioning. At this point it feels like the bow sits a little right of my natural arm line which feels a touch odd.


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## st8arrow (Apr 25, 2005)

Ordered my grip 2 days ago, and it came today. Great service ! Will be shooting it this weekend.

Thanks Paul


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## Guest (May 12, 2007)

Got Mine....for a X-FACTOR.....love it.

Art


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## Enure (Apr 11, 2007)

Well I got the opportunity to shoot mind earlier today and despite it taking a few shots of me flinging the bow about the place to remember what i was meant to be doing with my grip, it quickly became apparent this is a quality product.

The look and finish are top notch and i could not fault the service one bit, there was a slight hiccup in the ordering process but Paul was nothing but polite and efficient in the process. 

On the above merits alone i wouldn't hesitate to order a grip but when trying this particular grip i found it does indeed imediately promote pressure in the correct places and due to what i can only assume is a mixture of materials used and shape of the grip it makes ensuring the same hand position each time a sinch.

All in all an excellent product at a superb price and i do not have a single complaint.

The only issue i think i may have is i think my arm is just weird lol...i seem unable to get my elbow crease to not face the sky lol. I can turn it so it's 90 degrees and lift the bow but as soon as i start to pull and put any pressure my arm just rotates back into it's usual position lol. That said even in this position the pressure is in the correct place on my thumb and my knuckles are at approx the right angle to the horizon...more like 15 than 10 i will admit . Will be seeing if i can do it without stabs on my bow etc and just build up weight slightly...it may be that i'm just a freak :s.

Anyway, thanks again Paul/Jages Archery and limbwalker for putting together a superb product.


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## Progen (Mar 17, 2006)

Enure said:


> ...
> The only issue i think i may have is i think my arm is just weird lol...i seem unable to get my elbow crease to not face the sky lol. I can turn it so it's 90 degrees and lift the bow but as soon as i start to pull and put any pressure my arm just rotates back into it's usual position lol. That said even in this position the pressure is in the correct place on my thumb and my knuckles are at approx the right angle to the horizon...more like 15 than 10 i will admit . Will be seeing if i can do it without stabs on my bow etc and just build up weight slightly...it may be that i'm just a freak :s.
> ...


What is your bowarm deltoid's relation to the shoulder as you begin drawing? Is it still upwards, square to the ground? Sounds like your shoulders have gone out of line as tension is applied.


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## RODIV (Sep 4, 2006)

*B.e.s.t. Grip*

Just received by new grip from Paul, all I can say is if you don't have one get
one. The grip puts your hand in position, and it forces your hand into position.
Feels great and closed my groups up. Thanks John and Paul.

Rod


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## Matt Z (Jul 22, 2003)

*Grip update*

I've been using this grip for about a week firing hundreds of arrows with it. Being used to the standard Hoyt plastic medium grip sense I've ever picked up a recurve, this grip definately has a different feel to it, shape and material.

I decided to take it off yesterday thinking it just wasn't for me. I put the standard plastic grip back on and fired another 50 arrows. Boy what a difference! Mainly in the little rights and lefts due to bow hand torque that I didn't realize I had. Watching the reaction of the bow on follow through was obvious that there were torquing issues. I had none with the Jager grip. Now, we all know that form change takes longer than a week, but I wanted to let everyone know my little experience so far with this grip. I will be reinstalling it tonight and giving it more attention.


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## Paradoxical Cat (Apr 25, 2006)

I just received one for my Helix. I normally shoot with a "high" grip and have been getting a lot of pain in the webbing between my thumb and forefinger. This is simply because that is the the major contact point between my hand and the grip. 

I shot my Helix with grip last Friday and for the first time there was no pain. I could feel additional pressure contact with the rest of my palm. It was also in the right place. I can't say that my groups improved (I have been shooting pretty well with the ortho grip), but not feeling it afterwards was priceless. I also noticed that my arm didn't seem to tire as quickly, but that may be the "new-equipment factor."

Great grip. Thanks to Paul (and John) for putting it out there.

PC-


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## Cuthbert (Nov 28, 2005)

Paradoxical Cat said:


> I just received one for my Helix. I normally shoot with a "high" grip and have been getting a lot of pain in the webbing between my thumb and forefinger. This is simply because that is the the major contact point between my hand and the grip.
> 
> I shot my Helix with grip last Friday and for the first time there was no pain. I could feel additional pressure contact with the rest of my palm. It was also in the right place. I can't say that my groups improved (I have been shooting pretty well with the ortho grip), but not feeling it afterwards was priceless. I also noticed that my arm didn't seem to tire as quickly, but that may be the "new-equipment factor."
> 
> ...



Not to mention the color combination you had was very unique. I wish I would have taken a picture, but my wife had the camera.

I'm glad you like it.

Paul


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## Paradoxical Cat (Apr 25, 2006)

Paul:

Here you go. Sorry for the cellphone quality, but it's what I have. I'll send them if you want them, or if I can borrow a camera, I'll take better.

Regardless, it's beautiful work. I couldn't be happier.

PC-


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## st8arrow (Apr 25, 2005)

*X-factor*

Paul's BEST version for the X-factor is great....Have been shooting it for about a week now and it really gives you a comfortable, consistent hand position.


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## beleg2 (Dec 31, 2005)

HI,
This is probably not the best place to ask (pun intended.LOL) but I would like to know if B.E.S.T. grip can be adapted to DAS Dalaa bow?
Limbwalker, 
you have a DAS, so do you know if one of these grips can be used on my Dalaa?
Thanks
Martin


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## Cuthbert (Nov 28, 2005)

beleg2 said:


> HI,
> This is probably not the best place to ask (pun intended.LOL) but I would like to know if B.E.S.T. grip can be adapted to DAS Dalaa bow?
> Limbwalker,
> you have a DAS, so do you know if one of these grips can be used on my Dalaa?
> ...


The hoyt BEST Grip fits directly on the Dalaa.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

I believe it can.

I have an original prototype DAS Hunter rather than the Dalaa, but I think David kept the same geometry in the handle to accept the stock Hoyt plastic Avalon grip.

My Jaeger grip does fit on my DAS Hunter.

John.


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## beleg2 (Dec 31, 2005)

Jager, John,
Thank you very much.
Martin


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## arrow1347 (Mar 21, 2003)

*grip*

john, will paul start making l/h grips? thanks barry


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## pbzmag (Apr 26, 2006)

arrow1347 said:


> john, will paul start making l/h grips? thanks barry



I emailed him over the weekend. He told me to check back next week. Can wait get my hands on one!


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## RecordKeeper (May 9, 2003)

arrow1347 said:


> john, will paul start making l/h grips? thanks barry


I received two lefty Hoyt Matrix/AeroTec grips this week. They fit my BEST Zenit risers perfectly. 

Best grips I have ever used, and I am very, very pleased!

Thank you Jager Archery!


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## pbzmag (Apr 26, 2006)

pbzmag said:


> I emailed him over the weekend. He told me to check back next week. Can wait get my hands on one!


Forgot to mention it's for a Helix.


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## Cuthbert (Nov 28, 2005)

pbzmag said:


> Forgot to mention it's for a Helix.


The mold was proofed today. You may order when ready 

Paul


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## geekdoc (Jan 8, 2007)

*Love the Jager grip on Sky Conquest*

Got the Jager Archery "Magera/Lee" grip today and LOVE it. Felt like it was made just for me. 
Put the Hoyt model grip on the Sky Conquest riser and after adding a bunch of double stick, it stays in place. Much shorter top to bottom than the old Hoyt TD4/Sky grips and leaves about 3/4" space below the grip. Might add a bit of cork to stabilize it further.

Still, what a beaut!

Thanks to John and Paul!


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## Archery Ang (Apr 24, 2006)

I just got my Jager grip today...can't wait to put it on tomorrow and see how it flies!


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## spangler (Feb 2, 2007)

Archery Ang said:


> I just got my Jager grip today...can't wait to put it on tomorrow and see how it flies!


:darkbeer: Here is to hoping your grip doesn't fly anywhere.


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## calbowdude (Feb 13, 2005)

Liked mine so much I ordered another for my backup riser. 

You'll know when your hand is off on this grip! For those of you trying to "come to grips" with this shape, it took me around 400 arrows to get to the point of executing the shot and not worrying about what the bowhand is supposed to be doing. Your mileage may vary of course, but my point being that there will be a bit of adjustment needed.


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## st8arrow (Apr 25, 2005)

I just ordered my 4th one.


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## Progen (Mar 17, 2006)

st8arrow said:


> I just ordered my 4th one.


Showoff!!! :teeth:

I ordered my second one a few days ago. With all those orders coming in, will prices be in any 'danger' of dropping, Paul? :wink:


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## filoktetes (Feb 11, 2007)

A bit a off-topic question.. does anybody know if this grip can be made a "fit" to a spigarelli revolution riser? I now have a standerd spiga - "low grip", as my dealer told me they were the standard. - I know realise I'm more a High grip - guy,,


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## Dave T (Mar 24, 2004)

filoktetes said:


> A bit a off-topic question.. does anybody know if this grip can be made a "fit" to a spigarelli revolution riser? I now have a standerd spiga - "low grip", as my dealer told me they were the standard. - I know realise I'm more a High grip - guy,,


From your post above, I take it the Revolution takes the standard Spig grip. If that is the case then yes, you can fit the Magera/BEST grip made by Jager to a Spigarelli. I have two VBS 2001s and have installed Paul's grips on both. One took a bit of filing on the inside to get the screw holes lined up. The other one went on as it was with no fitting.

Dave


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## Speedyts49 (May 11, 2006)

I just got the black padded one for my Nexus and really like it. My hand does move around at all.
Speedy shipping too!


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## mantra (Feb 7, 2007)

c0rbuu said:


> Has anybody tried to fit one of Paul's grips on a Winstar II yet? I would love to get one for mine.


Is there any news about this question?


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## target1 (Jan 16, 2007)

I don't know, but I love mine on my Winact


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## mantra (Feb 7, 2007)

So do I with the one on my Helix but I neet to if there is a version wich fits on the WinStar II?!

Paul dosen´t know either. I emailed him and he answerd me that he belives that the W&W ExFeel has the same Grip?!


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## hammerheadpc (Mar 15, 2006)

Mantra,
Same here.
I ordered mine yesterday, so we'll see how well it fits on a Winstar II shortly.
I'll post back with results,
Cheers,
Christopher.


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## inferno nexus (Oct 15, 2007)

i seem to have problems accessing the website. is it down? can someone try to see if it's accessible?


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

Guys - 

Hate to be a party pooper, but I received my "BEST" grip from Paul (great guy and great service, btw) last week. It fit perfectly on my Aerotec and I was set to go. After about three ends the grip was so PAINFUL, I had to remove it and go back to the stock grip.

Here are a few details and I'm open to suggestions.

Lately I'd been shooting a high wrist position on the std Aerotec plastic grip, with the knuckles at 45 degrees with good results, so I figured it was about time to try the new grip. As I said it fit perfectly and actually felt pretty good on "dry runs". 

Oddly enough, I'd developed some callous formation at the base of my index finger where it contacts the grip from the std grip (kinda why I ordered the new one). When I tried shooting with the best grip (fully open handed, of course) all the weight of the bow seemed rested on the callous. After three ends the pain became intolorable and the grip came off. I'm still shooting the std Hoyt medium grip, with a high wrist and angled hand position. 

If someone has a sugestion, I'm all ears. Else, if I can't sell the grip locally, I'll wind up putting it in the classifieds. I'm thinking of a DAS style high grip, (The grip on my DAS ELITE is fine) but I'm really thinking: if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Thouhgts?

Viper1 out.


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## spangler (Feb 2, 2007)

Viper1 said:


> Guys -
> 
> Hate to be a party pooper, but I received my "BEST" grip from Paul (great guy and great service, btw) last week. It fit perfectly on my Aerotec and I was set to go. After about three ends the grip was so PAINFUL, I had to remove it and go back to the stock grip.
> 
> ...



Just to echo that while Paul was a great guy with great service, the BEST grip would not work with my wife who is rather petite. He hand is too small to fit in the grip (for a Hoyt Nexus) and it is sadly unusable for us. 

I think it is a good product, I'd get one for me...but it doesn't work for everyone. Of course, what product does?

-Andrew


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## dchan (Jun 29, 2004)

inferno nexus said:


> i seem to have problems accessing the website. is it down? can someone try to see if it's accessible?


Not working from my location either.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

> if it ain't broke, don't fix it.


I think you just answered your own question there...:wink:

Doubt you'll have any trouble selling that grip.

John.


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

Hmmm...I must say I'm intrigued. I can easily imagine making a custom grip with epoxy and creating an ergonomic monster without realizing it--like aliens trying to make a toilet for humans without ever having met humans (sorry, just the first simile I could think of).

Now that John has noted that the grips will fit a GM they are a possibility. Jager should probably publish a full compatibility list of risers that work with Avalon-sized grips...

...if only the web server weren't down...


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## dchan (Jun 29, 2004)

*server down?*

Actually after a little more research I think their DNS records are missing. DNS Lookup never finds jagerarchery.com


=================

DNS servers
dns3.avidhosting.com [209.152.129.2]
dns4.avidhosting.com [209.152.129.4]
Query for DNS records for jagerarchery.com failed: Timed out


=================
DC


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

dchan said:


> Actually after a little more research I think their DNS records are missing. DNS Lookup never finds jagerarchery.com
> 
> 
> =================
> ...


It isn't just the DNS servers, it is avidhosting.com that is down. Curiously, when I Googled the host the number two rank is for a gripe site warning people away from the host. (You never know initially if these gripes are legit or from a ruthless competitor, but I will say it would give me cause to look into the matter further.)

If there is medium/longterm issue with the host (who have the domain) perhaps Jager can put up a temp site and change the AT sponsored link? Unfortunately Google cache doesn't include photos for Jager


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## Dave T (Mar 24, 2004)

*Ford vs Chevy?*

I have the answer for all of you. If it doesn't fit you, don't use it. If it does, buy two.

Was any product ever introduced in archery or any other sport or hobby the absolute answer for everybody? I don't think so...

Dave


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## arrow1347 (Mar 21, 2003)

*grip*

need another one paul, x factor l/h , black bow


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

From a PM, the current site is now:

http://www.jagergrips.com/


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## Dave T (Mar 24, 2004)

Thanks, WB!

Dave


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