# aiming



## 12sonly (Jan 6, 2007)

what the best way to aim at target?my bow is set up so pin dosent block out what my eyes are concentrating on. is this good or bad? please help.


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## aread (Dec 25, 2009)

Aiming dots or pins seem to be different for everybody. Some set up the way you do, others can use a large dot without peeking to see the X, others use a circle and some use a tiny pin or dot so they can see the X behind it.

You have to figure out what works best for you. One thing that seems to work for the majority of archers is to focus on the X, not your pin.

Hope this helps,
Allen


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## da white shoe (Mar 10, 2009)

For spots, focusing on the pin seems to work best for me. If I focus on the spot, I have to sight my bow in to hit just above the pin... so the X wasn't blocked by the pin. But, that could just be my weak mind!

For hunting though... it is much better, at least for me... to be focused on the spot I want to hit.


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## subconsciously (Aug 22, 2009)

I always focus on the target and pick up the pin in my secondary vision. The target (paper) does not move, so that is my main focal point. I allow my mind (subconscious centering) to bring the pin back to center. 

There have been countless times my pin was over in the 4 ring but my Arrow ended up in the "x". That was because of my subconscious mind moving the pin back to center before my conscious act of aiming could correct itself

Clear as mud?

Also focusing on the pin can lead to target panic in some people. That is why I focus on where I want the arrow to go.


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## 12sonly (Jan 6, 2007)

So the subconscious is self centering, no mater where the pin is at? If i set my bow up hot and I focus on a certain spot my subconscious will correct and bow will shoot hot?


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## subconsciously (Aug 22, 2009)

When you go into an elevator and push the 8th floor button, are looking at your finger or the button? When you hit the button do you hit the edge of the button or the center? 

When you are aiming consciously at a spot the pin will float. Your subconscious mind will be moving the pin back to center before your conscious aiming gets it back to center. Your subconscious can do many many things at once,while the conscious mind can only do one. 

Does that mean you just stare at the spot and it goes in there. No. It still requires good form and conscious aiming. 

OK. My fingers are tired.


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## Ray Ray (Aug 1, 2005)

I have to agree with Subconsciously on this. When driving down the road you don't watch the hood of the car, you watch down the road, yet you subconsciously stay in the lane until you take your eye off the road. Same with aiming. With good form , a subconscious release & conscious aiming you will hit the middle.


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## DJTJR (Apr 15, 2009)

Just wondering as I too focus on the target when shooting compound because that's what most say but with traditional gear I will focus on the arrow tip as I shoot better that way. I also shot competition high-power where all the focus is on the front sight so I am wondering why that is the case in one shooting discipline but not the other. Why would front sight be a focus for rifle shooters but the reverse for bow guys? I don't know if this has been discussed ad naueuseum or not just wondering.


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## oldgeez (Sep 29, 2002)

i love these "aiming" threads. i wish i would have had access to this kind of info 20 years ago. i have reinvented myself with this new method, and it is working out great. looking through a small ring at the x, and letting the subconscious aim was new concept. it is new and exciting to see how much calmer at the center i have become. i still have a psychological problem with holding the x "centered" in the ring. shooting vegas targets the x tends to stay low in the ring causing 2 or 5 misses. i'm concentrating on the x, but i can still see the ring?? even though i am concentrating hard on the x, i "think" i'm still trying to "consciously" force the x to the center of the ring. of course, this leads to the same ole problem..the harder you try, the more that sucker wants to move all around. the misses are not always low, but bearly miss all around. this proves out the point that the mind is centering all the time. here is the problem. i can hold the sight still and well centered when i know i cannot shoot. like using the old trick of having a friend hold something in front of the arrow at full draw. (he doesn't actually hold it there, but you think he might be..it works). now how do i duplicate this mind set when i'm actually shooting??? how long will it take before the ring goes away, and the float becomes totally invisible?? i need practice tips..psychological tricks. or is it just more shots, and 1 day it will just happen??


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## subconsciously (Aug 22, 2009)

First off, aiming must be passive. You never want to force the pin into the spot. If you have to force your pin into the spot you need to go back to the blank bale and target aquisitioning practice. If your able to hold solid knowing your not going to shoot, you have a degree of TP. 

I practice several times a week at 7-8 yards. I want every arrow to land on the x. Not an inside out, but on the x. Shooting close like this gives my mind a "view" of how I want the pin to hold and where to hold. This great practice. If you can't do it at 5 yards you can't do it at 20. 

You must learn to trust your shot process. Any doubts will show up on your score card. 

Most important - during your aiming moment you need to tell yourself "aim, aim, aim, aim...". This keeps the mind from drifting to other parts of the shot that the subconscious mind should be taking care of. At anytime your conscious mind drifts off the aim to something else, it's time to let down.


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## oldgeez (Sep 29, 2002)

i have tp..i've had it for over 20 years. back tension and blank bale shooting has gotten me "around" it. i used to aim, aim and aim some more, but i changed all that last year. aiming hard, in my conscious mind, was just getting me nowhere after decades of trial and failure. the new execution method talked about by slicer has really helped a lot. the aiming process is now much much more "passive" and secondary to execution. i just concentrate on the x and let my conscious mind work on getting the shot off and follow through. this has helped a lot with calming me at the moment of truth, so to speak; and also with the speed of the shot. the old aim method was taking forever, now the shot breaks smoothly. the only problem is i'm still kinda looking at the circle too much. it's diverting my attention, and therefore my concentration slightly away from the x. i was wondering about one of those center focusing lenses, that just clarify in the center??? holding the x inside the circle is a remnant of the aim, aim aim method. it's going away, but i was womdering how long it will take to go away completely?? i was also wondering about some mind games..like what to be doing while executing...an example would be shooting the aim...or, like the man said, admiring the sight picture and te shot breaks. i do all of the above, but still have those few little lapses.


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## subconsciously (Aug 22, 2009)

Your telling me what is workin for you is not working? There is no magic sight. There is no mind game. There is your way and my way. My way has got me a state championship and a sectional championship and my wife two national titles. I'm not bragging but there is proof in the pudding. Tonite I shot a half game and dropped 2x's. Am I willin to change my method to a half conscious aim and half conscious getting my shot off. I don't think my conscious mind can do both. Maybe I should be on the little bus.


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## oldgeez (Sep 29, 2002)

i've got numerous state and sectional championships, also. i, too, am missing on an average of 4 in 30 shots..296 with numerous 298's and a 299. never a 300 on a vegas face. this is what i'm looking for. i'm not looking for magic, ,just a little advice as to how long it might take to complete the process..how much practice and if there were some short cuts??? there is no 1/2 and 1/2...it's all 100 % execution..aiming is slowy becoming secondary. see the x, hit the x. i've been on this for about 3 months and have made major strides. just looking for a possible time line and some tricks of the trade....if any???


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## subconsciously (Aug 22, 2009)

Sorry. I can't help you. 

Congrats on your accomplishments.


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## oldpro888 (Dec 31, 2010)

So I have to chime in. I disagree a little, I move my pin to the center by simply burning the spot with my eyes. Here is a drill I do with young shooters. Think of the Oiji board.
Draw a small dot on a paper. Use any kind of pendent, string with a wieght on the end. Elbow next to the paper with the pendent and eyes over the dot.
Ask the shooter not to try to move the end of the pendent, but shift eyes to 12 oclock then 6, 12 then six 12 then six, soon the pendent will move without them trying, when it starts moving, ask them to concentrate on the dot, the pin will freeze over the dot and stop. 
Thats how you aim, it just happens.


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## oldgeez (Sep 29, 2002)

elbow next to paper????????/ your elbow is behind your head.......................where "exactly" is the piece of paper at full draw??? where does the piece of paper with the dot and pendant touch the archer, etc?? i must be thick, but i need a little more detail


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## oldpro888 (Dec 31, 2010)

No bow, piece of paper on a table


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## oldgeez (Sep 29, 2002)

clear as mud


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## oldpro888 (Dec 31, 2010)

One more try because it is worth it. Paper with dot in the center on flat surface. Pendent, may be 18 inches long. Put your elbow next to the paper with pendant in hand and dangle ot over the dot. 

Then concentrate 12-6, 12-6, 12-6 and the pendant will move without you trying to move it. Whend it gets a good swing, tell them to focus on the dot, the pendent will freze over the dot


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## oldgeez (Sep 29, 2002)

much more gooder...thx


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## aread (Dec 25, 2009)

oldgeez,

Here is a thread with the same question you have. How to raise your average. Excellent advice from George Ryals:

http://www.archerylive.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=1328&view=&hl=&fromsearch=1

Allen


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## [email protected] (Aug 3, 2010)

First off good to be back.I think alot of aiming problems are caused by committing on pin on target.This should not be a reason to commit this is only calibration.I believe starting the aiming process this early leads to tension and fighting the pin,where as once you set your anchors and everything is right you are now totally free to immerse in burn the hole aiming, very intense, and the shot breaks in its proper time frame.


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## subconsciously (Aug 22, 2009)

I agree [email protected] The human mind can only super focus on any one thing for a short amount of time. That's why it is called an "aiming moment". 


Welcome back.


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## Mismost (May 1, 2011)

oldgeez...I'm new to archery, I am not new to shooting competition. By reading your post above, you seem to be fixed on scores. I shoot a lot of skeet and that game is 95% mental. I made my greatest strides when I stopped thinking about scores or results of a shot....all that was doing was projecting me into the future when I needed my mind to be focused on the PROCESS of making the shot. I do that by running a mental checklist...foot position, hold point, look point, blah, blah blah. I don't checklist because i need to remind myself what to do, I know what to do. I run the checklist to give my conscious mind something to think about...that gets my thinking brain out of the way....THEN my subconscious is free to do it's thing, which is hit the target. My subconscious shoots so much better than I do! 

Google Lanny Bassham and Mental Management Systems....he has a product designed for archery shooting. I know, you may think this is more nut case type BS and you are right! 296, 298, 299 and never a 300....you know how to hit the X...you need to learn how to get out of your own way. Those last 1 to 4 targets are in your head.


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## Blueberry_DLD (Nov 21, 2011)

Very good information guys, I am going to use your techniques!


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## Blueberry_DLD (Nov 21, 2011)

*Back Tension and clickers*

I have tried several times to use a back tension release with a clicker but everytime it clicks I flinch, what can I do? I have went to a release that doesnt click, but when I flinch when it clicks is this a form of target panic?


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## aread (Dec 25, 2009)

Blueberry_DLD said:


> I have tried several times to use a back tension release with a clicker but everytime it clicks I flinch, what can I do? I have went to a release that doesnt click, but when I flinch when it clicks is this a form of target panic?


Yes, it is TP. You are anticipating the explosion of the release. The cure is to develop a follow through to a conclusion that takes you past the explosion and the arrow clearing the rest. 

A lot of archers use touching their shoulder or the sound of the arrow hitting the target as their conclusion. It really doesn't matter as long as you can train yourself to anticipate the conclusion instead of the explosion. This is not easy for someone who has been shooting for a while. 

The only way to do it is on a blank bale. This takes a lot of arrows over a long period of time to accomplish. On the bale, draw to anchor, then think about whatever conclusion you have decided on. Concentrate on that through your shot. Try to shoot a good shot otherwise, but focus your mind on the conclusion. 

You want to do this close up on a blank bale so that there is no pressure of trying to hit a target. Don't close your eyes for this drill since, hopefully, you won't be shooting at game or targets with your eyes closed. 

If you find yourself trying to aim at holes or marks on the bale, get closer to the bale. 

This is the process of building a subconscious habit. It take time and a lot of repititions. I've heard that it can be done in 21 days, but my experience is much longer than that. It may be just that I'm hard headed or stupider than most.  I hope you can do it in less time.

Hope this helps,
Allen


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## 12sonly (Jan 6, 2007)

I have talked to a couple of pros about clicker, they tell me when release clicks is when they start there back tension ,start aiming hard.


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## Blankchecks (Nov 9, 2011)

Curious..do people hunt with back tension devices?


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## [email protected] (Aug 3, 2010)

I hunt with a Bernies cant punch index finger release and have harvested many deer with it,and just switch to it a month before hunting season from my regular back tension release.Took two this year with it.


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## oldgeez (Sep 29, 2002)

the "click" starts the actual execution of the shot. checking and running your conscious mental program should be quick and before the click. just my .02


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## mike 66 (Jan 21, 2010)

ok , guys good info from everyone, there is no human on earth that can come to full draw and aim and hold the spot 100% on target and hold it there......you must trust your release, while your mind holds it there.... and blank bale alone will not cure T.P........your mind can only do one thing at a time. for you older guys its like driving a car. ill bet 99% of you guys can not give me a detailed vision of your last car ride...you drive with your sub....you cant tell me how many white trucks you saw, or blue cars or how you applied the brakes at each stop lite..[ unless you were in a close call ]. because you do this with your subconscious. while a new driver young... has to think each step on the way..... so we aim hard while the other guy[sub] starts the motor....and you must trust your release ...............aim hard think ,,,X..ONLY ..X NOTHING BUT X IF ANYTHING ELSE POPS UP LET DOWN...


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## Da Vinci (May 16, 2011)

These threads are the reason I maintain an AT account. Every now and again, somebody will say the same thing I've heard countless times a little differently, and it clicks.


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