# rangefinders everywhere



## fatboyte (Mar 29, 2006)

not any that i go to allow them and there is a couple that if you are even seen with one your score will not count nomatter what


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## rustyfence (Aug 3, 2006)

I shoot alot of local club shoots, and all of them I go to say NO RANGE FINDERS! Now I have one, and will not go hunting with out it. Alot of people do take them on the 3D course with them, and use them. If the club putting on the shot, see them using it, they will kick them out. Not throw out the card, litterly tell them to leave. My favorite club, once a year has a known yardage shoot. Where they mark the yardage, and allow rangefinders. They mark the yardage on a post, covered by a piece of cardboard, so you can lift the cardboard to see the yardage, or shoot it the standard way. I personally think the known yardage, and rangefinders, have no place in the 3D world, but that is just my opinion. Rangefinders are good for beginners, and kids to help boost their score, and get them hooked, but for 2cnd year, and on there should be none allowed.


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## Top Cat (Jun 22, 2002)

If they are using range finders and turning in their score for trophy then in any shoot I have been to they are cheating. 
I've used one at a 3-d shoot but told then at sign in I would not be turning in my card.


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## 3Dfool (Jun 1, 2005)

*Rangefinders*

I go to a lot of 3D shhots every year. Most of them are at small clubs that hold fun shoots and I'd say tha about 1/3 of the shooters at the fun shoots use their rangefinders. These are just FUN SHOOTS, no prizes, money or awards. Most of the attendees are their for the fun of it, not to compete. I do not have any problem with them using them. I'm not competeing against them, so I say, "whatever cranks their scooter". Now when it comes to a shoot where there are prizes or awards, I agree 100% with the no range finder rule. Some clubs even kick you and your whole group out for being caught with on on the course, whether you are using it or not. That is the way it should be, IMO.


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## oneluckypops (Feb 24, 2007)

Top Cat said:


> If they are using range finders and turning in their score for trophy then in any shoot I have been to they are cheating.
> I've used one at a 3-d shoot but told then at sign in I would not be turning in my card.


I have been wanting to do that as my judgments are not that great im still learning. 

IMO the 3d shoots is Practice to keep your skills sharp for "HUNTING" I really think you should be made to shoot your hunting set up and if you have a range finder that you take hunting then so be it use it if you like its all practice anyway. 

If you let the new people use it there first year and thats it afterwards yes that will help SOME but not all for instance people that have poor depth perception can not learn something they physically can not do. just my 2 cents though.

But i do agree if you use a range finder you shouldnt be aloud to turn in your card if thats what the clubs rules are but i do see quite a few people withe the rb800's (binos with built in range finder) on the courses that do turn in there score cards. I am new to this whole thing but all of them i have went to noone has ever checked any of my groups equipment for rangefinders or anything else dont know if its like that everywhere or not.


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## redracer_6 (Feb 19, 2007)

at our clubs they have stakes at different yardages for dif. classes. i think that is the best way to do it.that way if you want to shoot using a range finder you can if not you don't have to.


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## rudeman (Jan 25, 2006)

I think f you declare ahead of time that you are using one and that you are DQ-ing yourself, fine. Or, if the club has a "fun shoot" category, fine. However, if you use one and count your card, that is blatant cheating, IMO.


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## BK Artworks (Nov 7, 2005)

redracer_6 said:


> at our clubs they have stakes at different yardages for dif. classes. i think that is the best way to do it.that way if you want to shoot using a range finder you can if not you don't have to.


Every club uses a marker and most are painted stakes of some sort. We use rebar painted the color for the classes. Range finders are not allowed to be used but I think a known yardage class could be a good idea if someone cant judge yardage as some that has a problem with depth perception. But even then if they really want to learn how to judge yardage they can. I know several people that have problems with distance but they have come up with a method that worked for them it's just putting in the time to learn what works. I think range finders are the greatest asset to 3D archery to help someone learn how to judge yardage or for hunting but they dont belong on a 3D course.


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## r302 (Apr 5, 2004)

*Rangefinders*

I believe I am the biggest advocate for allowing rangefinders in 3D.

Every club I have approached and talked to about allowing rangefinders at their 3D shoots have changed their minds about rangefinders after I explain why I think it is a very good idea.

Short story!

No one is worst at guessing yardages than me, period!

So I sat at home every 3D shoot from the very beginning of 3Ds until 2001 because I was embrassed of my obvious shortcomings.

I made a proposal to my local club if they would let me shoot with a rangefinder, I would pay the full fees, not compete, not receive a score card, and shoot last and by myself, simply just because I just wanted to shoot 3Ds and I was tired of staying home and not enjoying 3Ds like everyone else.

This same proposal now has me shooting in the Four Corners Clubs where their flyers use to say, " No Cheaters, No Booze, No Complaining, No Guns, and No Rangefinders! "

Wow! What a low grade group I was put in, but I kept calling and asking every club to let come and join them and except one club in Albuquerque, I have been invited to participate in most every shoot in the Four Corners area with my rangefinder.

These clubs now offer a competitive and non-competitive rangefinders classes for men and women.

I am now shooting with top notch area 3D archers who never believed they would be shooting 3Ds with a rangefinder and now they are shooting with me!

I am so pleased and I will continued to call and ask if I can shoot with any club I see that has a flyer that says, " No Cheating, No Booze, No Bad Attitudes, No Complaining, and NO RANGEFINDERS! ".

After all, I'm just a archer wants to shoot 3Ds like everyone else.:wink:


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## Dan-O (Dec 24, 2006)

We only use the rangefinder after everyone in the group has shot. No rules against that at my local shoots. It's good to know on a "fooler" when you hit a foot low if it was yardage or a poor shot. I don't understand why anyone would pay to shoot marked yardage when you can do that in your yard for free. 3-D is all about judging yardage, thereby making you a more effective bowhunter. Not knocking marked yardage at all, it's just not for me.


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## The Yankee (Nov 23, 2005)

We have 2 classes for people who want to use rangefinders in our 6 club 36 week league. One is for 40 yards max and one is for 50 yards max. We have around 10 people per week who shoot in those classes. It seems to work for the most part. You CANNOT use a rangefinder in any other class. Everybody is happy and it seems to have taken most of the cheating away we think. If someone is having a problem with distance they can just shoot with a rangefinder that week if they want to. You know what though, usually the rangefinder scores are UNDER what the scores are for the corresponding stakes for the other classes.  I think that is because the best 3d'ers can judge without them. I am not saying that to be a wiseguy, it is just the way it is.


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## Canusayhoyt (Apr 26, 2005)

The easy part for me is shooting. The hard part is knowing how far I am shooting. That is the fun it.


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## PA Dave (Jan 3, 2005)

I'd love to use my rangefinder for 3D and not count my score, but, the biggest problem I can see is that _someone_ always finds a way to cheat. How do you keep the guy with the rangefinder from giving yardage clues to others through hand signals or just plain talking? Personally, I don't think they should be allowed at any 3D competition that has money up for grabs. I don't think it's a good idea to compromise the competitive events that so many archers have devoted so much time and effort preparing for, just so I can more easily enjoy myself. If the idea is that popular, then clubs should be able to stage 3D "fun shoots" for those like me who just want to go shoot a 3D course and not worry about prizes or official scores, and bring in enough cash to cover the nut and maybe raise some additional club funds. 

Personally, I'm seeking out as many "known yardage" events as I can to try to build my estimation skills and just have fun. I take my rangefinder along while walking the dog and practice estimating distances on random objects. I also take it to work occasionally and do the same on my lunch break. I'm looking forward to shooting 3D this spring, whether I do well or not, so I am preparing to play by the rules, because that's just part of the game.

Just MHO.


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## PA.JAY (May 26, 2004)

90% of the shooters @ local shoot are hunters they could give a rats arse about score . unless their shouting out the yardage it should'nt affect anyone.IMO..


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## Camo (Jan 12, 2005)

PA.JAY said:


> 90% of the shooters @ local shoot are hunters they could give a rats arse about score . unless their shouting out the yardage it should'nt affect anyone.IMO..


Agreed! And number of shooters at 3D's would jump. I have heard several people that don't shoot 3D because they hate losing arrows if they call a distance wrong.....Rangefinder classes would solve that issue in a way...And, how far off are we really when glassing a 20yrd Turkey with 8x binos to find the 12 ring?????? 
Rangefinder classes NEED to be brought into play....With restrictions......NO announcing yardages, NO groups of rangefinder shooters with non-rangefinder shooters.....Etc....

PA.JAY, ask Shawn if he is intrested in an Hunter Rangefinder Class....


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## PA.JAY (May 26, 2004)

> ask Shawn if he is interested in an Hunter Rangefinder Class


 I don't think a class for rangefinder is needed just shoot for fun . they just want to shoot their bows & walk in the woods I'm cool with that . It least their shooting all year & not the day before season. I just wish they would quit asking me HEY what are you going to do with that long stabilizer knock the deer out !


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

I have not been shooting 3D until a couple weeks ago. I really like the challenge of judging distances. Yes, I've nearly lost some arrows due to missing the targets. But I've also found that for me it helps if I convince myself that the target is pretty darn big to begin with and tell myself that I can at least hit the animal even if I can't hit the "jackpot" ring.
I intend to concentrate on that and when I get distance judging down, then I'll go for the "X"s.
Rangefinders? I'd hate to be competing against someone using one. I agree that if you've got one person in the shooting group using one they probably will broadcast to the others the target distance.


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## BK Artworks (Nov 7, 2005)

Camo said:


> Rangefinder classes NEED to be brought into play....With restrictions......NO announcing yardages, NO groups of rangefinder shooters with non-rangefinder shooters.....Etc....
> 
> PA.JAY, ask Shawn if he is intrested in an Hunter Rangefinder Class....


I really dont know how you can keep a shooter with a rangefinder from shooting with those that dont well at least not at a little local shoot when they want to shoot with their buddies and I'm sure someone will let a yardage slip once in a while but if something can be done to make sure they dont give away yardage's then well....I might be more apt to allow them but I'm still stand with my previous statement in they are a tool to learn yardage more then to be used on the course. Besides it would benefit everyone to learn how to estimate yardage without one when they go hunting as there are times when you wont have time to get it out and get a reading or it fails when you are using it. I never rely on a piece of equipment like that to work everytime.


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## BowmanJay (Jan 1, 2007)

R302 I agree with you and also support your stance. When hunting I could not understand how anyone would take a chance of injuring an animal vise a clean kill because you misjudged the shot. With that said, rangefinders would be a welcome addition to 3D. I do understand that the yardage estimation is part of the challenge and respect the club rules. It is fun to shoot but not teaching anything to a would be hunter. Most of us are very poor at guessing.....


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## Bucks Spirit (Apr 21, 2006)

red44 said:


> I don't post here hardly at all. I don't get to shoot many 3ds. Today I was at a shoot just across the Bourne Bridge on Cape Cod. Great setting, up and down hills, all scrub pine/oaks woods, some shots were out there for me. 40 yard pin fell short on a few. I did'nt shoot as well as I would have liked, but guessing the yardage just kills me. No left right misses, just poor yardage. Is'nt this the name of the game, really? The group in front and in back had and used rangefinders prior to shooting.  Is this acceptable at local club 3ds? I've no problem with them in the field, the less wounded game the better, but whats the point in 3d. I don't know if they're turning in their scores or not, I know I did'nt.:embara: Is this the norm? How many of you see this at your shoots? Thanks for letting me air it a little.


I was at that shoot and it was a great set-up. Always is. Didn't see any range finders this weekend , but didn't get there til 9:15 so we missed the crowd. I think if they find someone on the course with a range finder their score card should be taken from them and asked to leave. If you want to shoot the course with a range finder than your card will be stamped across the face saying (RANGE FINDER USED !) and your score will not be loged in.Did you like that 45 yd. shot across the water. I did ! I x ed it!


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## r302 (Apr 5, 2004)

*More on Rangefinders*



Camo said:


> Agreed! And number of shooters at 3D's would jump. I have heard several people that don't shoot 3D because they hate losing arrows if they call a distance wrong.....Rangefinder classes would solve that issue in a way...And, how far off are we really when glassing a 20yrd Turkey with 8x binos to find the 12 ring??????
> Rangefinder classes NEED to be brought into play....With restrictions......NO announcing yardages, NO groups of rangefinder shooters with non-rangefinder shooters.....Etc....
> 
> PA.JAY, ask Shawn if he is intrested in an Hunter Rangefinder Class....



My club has solved most of the problems with rangefinders here.

First, there are two classes that can be offered.

A non-competitive and a competitive rangefinder class.

Secondly, the club has the rangefinder's classes enter the field lastly, that way all of the estimation groups are ahead and out of ear shot from the rangefinder's group, plus no signaling is going to help anyone if front of these groups because the distances are changed on the second or third rounds.

Next Question?:wink:


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## Scottie (Oct 29, 2004)

Not using them is part of the challenge. I don't care if it's hunter class and you use one for hunting because it's ethical. I use one for hunting as well, but I 'm no too ethical about wounding some foam.

Stop comparing 3D to hunting. It's not! You're with other people, the targets don't move, you wear comfortable clothing, take your time, etc.............
I'm not buying the "I'm terrible at judging yardage, it's not fair". *Well, practice!* Go out in the woods, in the parking lot, at home, on the roof, wherever, guess the yardage and then range. It's amazing how good you become if you practice. 

I heard a guy get in an uproad last year at a shoot. He was ticked off about the hardness of shots. Through "v's" in trees, kneeling shots, 40+ yard turkey shots, etc... "It's not fair, I'm not that good. I would never take a shot at a turkry over 40 yards" he said. Well, me either, but again .......
*this isn't hunting! * *It's a competition! IT'S SUPPOSE TO BE CHALLENGING!!!!!!!!*

You think the Pro's just practice shooting and are naturals at guessing yardage? NOT! They practice yardage as much, if not more, than they practice shooting.

I've been to shoots where you can't even use bino's! Why, to keep the line moving. My score suffered, but everyones' did. What's the big deal. Put the ego away.

If you want to practice shooting with a range finder to make sure you're sighted in, GREAT! I do it too, but do it on the range. The rangefinders have *NO* place on the actual course. What's next, putting bright orange stickers on the 12 spot?

So while I am *trying* to understand why some people want to use them on the actual 3D course, I don't. My $ .02.


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## r302 (Apr 5, 2004)

*Scottie*

I see your point and it is well taken.

I don't hunt so I have no need to estimate yardages.

I'm blind in my left eye, so judging yardages with no depth perception is almost impossible, trust me.

I don't compete if there is a non-competitive class, but I will shoot in a competitive rangefinder's class if one is all that is offered.

I just love shooting 3Ds with no hunting or competeing in mind.

The rangefinder makes that possible for me.

I hope I've answered some of your thoughts on the subject.:wink:


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## Scottie (Oct 29, 2004)

*r302*

Your points are well taken and I appreciate your passion for 3D. There's a median for us somewhere!:darkbeer:


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## YRhinefield (Feb 22, 2006)

I agree with Scottie's post 100%.

Back in the day 3D archery was designed for hunters in mind but that day has long since past. Whether IBO or ASA formats 3D archery is designed for competition NOT hunting practice. 

12 rings low at the back of vital scoring area or 14 rings high on the back of a target far away from any lethal or vital area on a target DO NOT represent shots areas that ethical bowhunters would take on game animals.

I have no problem with people using range finders at local non competitive clubs but strongly oppose their use now or in the future at any sanctioned IBO or ASA shoots. The majority of ASA classes are now shoot known distances for 1/2 the targets. Seems like a field shoot to me just the targets have changed.


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## PA.JAY (May 26, 2004)

Im not saying anyone is wrong that posted ! BUT I know a guy that only shoots the deer & bear targets . I know this guy could'nt care less about score cards or anything else but shooting. theirs two kind of guys at these courses hunters & target guys. you have to group them together so we got to give them the same respect just for showing up. rangefinder or not..


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## IA Monsterbuck (Jul 18, 2006)

I just started shooting 3d last year and shot at several local courses. I don't think any of the shoots offered any sort of prizes other than door prizes. 

I didn't use a rangefinder and I agree that the whole fun and sport of it is estimating the target distance and making a good shot. 

I do think however that it would be beneficial to be able to range the target AFTER everyone in your group has shot. I'd like to know just how far a target is and how close my estimation was. 

I think it would be a good learning tool to be able to use a rangefinder to compare estimated vs. actual distance after the shot.


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## TTG (Aug 1, 2003)

I was there, had my rangefinder, after the shots we would sometimes range it to get a better idea of our estimation. Anyone who is going to range it before the shot is cheating them self, and the others if there are prizes involved. I dont turn in my score card, but I still have fun . Like Monster Buck said its a good learning tool .


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## Bucks Spirit (Apr 21, 2006)

The truth is . That shoot was a league shoot. They have rules and the rules say , ( NO RANGE FINDERS OR CAMERAS ALLOWED ON COURSE ). Even if you are not shooting in the league you should follow the rules . Then there won't be a problem. That club has none league shoots on three saturdays this year. I don't think there would be a problem if anyone used a range finder then.


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## rvkhan (Dec 31, 2003)

*Rangefinders or not?*

When we shoot at local shoots or league shoots, it's courteous to judge yardage first then shoot, then range it to se how close you were. I shoot with several pros in my area and they use rangefinfers to make sure they are judging distance well. I mean if you hit in the 12 ring or 11 ring then you know you judged that distance exactly. I think that we should use rangefinders as a learning tool vs. a crutch. On the other hand, losing arrows are very expensive, especially when you take it serious as some of us do and losing 1 or more arrows every shoot can be $$$ thing. Last point I'd like to make, is if you're using a rangefinder to obtain your yardage, your only cheating yourself in the end. If you ever go to competition and get caught using it your name is *mud*.


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## Scottie (Oct 29, 2004)

IA Monsterbuck said:


> ........
> I do think however that it would be beneficial to be able to range the target AFTER everyone in your group has shot. I'd like to know just how far a target is and how close my estimation was.
> 
> I think it would be a good learning tool to be able to use a rangefinder to compare estimated vs. actual distance after the shot.


The only problem I have with this is that it gives you an edge on the next target and upcoming targets. Alot of times target are close or you even shoot (2) targets from the same point. You shoot the first target, then range it, then shoot the next target ......... I think that's a distinct advantage and borderline cheater, cheater pumpkin eater.


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## IA Monsterbuck (Jul 18, 2006)

Scottie said:


> The only problem I have with this is that it gives you an edge on the next target and upcoming targets. Alot of times target are close or you even shoot (2) targets from the same point. You shoot the first target, then range it, then shoot the next target ......... I think that's a distinct advantage and borderline cheater, cheater pumpkin eater.


Obviously if you're shooting two targets from the same spot you'd shoot both then range before moving on. Don't see how it would affect later targets.

Like I said, obviously it wouldn't be fair if you were shooting competitively but most of the shoots I've been to are just for fun and if somebody's going to cheat they're just going to lie on their scorecard anyway.

I have not nor would I ever lie on a 3d scorecard. Now golfing, that's a different story.:wink: 

I only shoot 3d to become a better bowhunter and I use my scores to help myself gauge how well I'm shooting. I would only be cheating myself if I cheated on ranging or scorekeeping.


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## Simpson (Dec 11, 2006)

It's ******ed to not allow rangefinders on the course if a card isn't gonna be turned in. ***, the shooter not using one are keeping score on an honor system anywho. The rangefinder shooters pay to get some foam just like a scoring shooter.


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## trycon69 (Mar 16, 2007)

I shoot a single pin sight. These 3-d shoots that I do for fun and practice make me a better hunter. I want to be good at judging distances in the woods. When I have a deer within range I get wound up. I can't be trying to think about trees, ribbons, or spots that I know exact yardage for. Especialy when the deer changes yardage on his way in or away from my stand. Love 3-D., love shooting year round. Every game has rules and range finders are prohibited in this one, get over them they are for girls.


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## Simpson (Dec 11, 2006)

trycon69 said:


> I shoot a single pin sight. These 3-d shoots that I do for fun and practice make me a better hunter. I want to be good at judging distances in the woods. When I have a deer within range I get wound up. I can't be trying to think about trees, ribbons, or spots that I know exact yardage for. Especialy when the deer changes yardage on his way in or away from my stand. Love 3-D., love shooting year round. Every game has rules and range finders are prohibited in this one, get over them they are for girls.


Narrow minded ass...........


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## C.Callison (Jun 20, 2006)

Their are some good points being made hear and I think rangefinders are very important in practice. I take my rangefinder out on the local 3d ranges without my bow sometimes. Its hard to realy concentrate on learning yardage when your shooting sometimes. So if you dont take your bow you dont have the distraction. Knowning the yardage gives you a great deal of confidence and that helps you excute the shot. Hear is proof, how many times have you been practicing with some friends and someone says"man thats shot has got to be at least 43 yards." But you know in your mind without a dout that it is 38 yards. You draw your bow and settle your pin on the 11 and make a good shot with perfect form, and you nail the 11 ring. After the shot someone ranges it and says its 43 yards. If you walked up to the stake and judged it for 38 and then ranged it for 43 before you shot it do you think you would still be confident in your first number. In my opinion its better to not shoot when you are practicing yardage and practice form, and not yardage when you are shooting.


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## Simpson (Dec 11, 2006)

C.Callison said:


> Their are some good points being made hear and I think rangefinders are very important in practice. I take my rangefinder out on the local 3d ranges without my bow sometimes. Its hard to realy concentrate on learning yardage when your shooting sometimes. So if you dont take your bow you dont have the distraction. Knowning the yardage gives you a great deal of confidence and that helps you excute the shot. Hear is proof, how many times have you been practicing with some friends and someone says"man thats shot has got to be at least 43 yards." But you know in your mind without a dout that it is 38 yards. You draw your bow and settle your pin on the 11 and make a good shot with perfect form, and you nail the 11 ring. After the shot someone ranges it and says its 43 yards. If you walked up to the stake and judged it for 38 and then ranged it for 43 before you shot it do you think you would still be confident in your first number. In my opinion its better to not shoot when you are practicing yardage and practice form, and not yardage when you are shooting.


I felt bad for a friend last year at a shoot. He would shoot and then range the shot. The #'s conflicted every target (30). He was pretty bent after what he laid out for the rangefinder. I feel he could have used this as a learning experience but he chose to be disgruntled instead. I don't use one but there's no reason to point prejudice at a person who just wants to shoot 3D. He's only a **** if he trys to turn in a score. I'm gonna suggest our club add a class for rangefinders. Might as well get with the program is my stance on the matter.


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## spark (Sep 20, 2006)

*Rangefinders Class*

As r302 said our club in Farmington, NM offers a rangefinders class. For anyone who is interested we have a 3D coming up March 31st. For more info call X-PERT archery @ 505 325 5544. The rules for this class are pretty much the way r302 laid out earlier.:zip: 


No Fences


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## Simpson (Dec 11, 2006)

spark said:


> As r302 said our club in Farmington, NM offers a rangefinders class. For anyone who is interested we have a 3D coming up March 31st. For more info call X-PERT archery @ 505 325 5544. The rules for this class are pretty much the way r302 laid out earlier.:zip:
> 
> 
> No Fences


Why is it everything progressive starts in the west and works it's way east? LOL!


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## Bucks Spirit (Apr 21, 2006)

I ask this . If you think you should be allowed to use a range finder instead of learning how to judge yardage. And you use a ranger finder when hunting and a buck comes into view and when you attemp to range that deer you find that your range finder is not working for what ever reason . Do you not take a shot , pack up and leave the woods or do you just fling an arrow at it hoping that you get your prize. I would rather have the confidence in myself , than in a piece of electronics. Because you never know when they will fail.


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## IA Monsterbuck (Jul 18, 2006)

Bucks Spirit said:


> I ask this . If you think you should be allowed to use a range finder instead of learning how to judge yardage. And you use a ranger finder when hunting and a buck comes into view and when you attemp to range that deer you find that your range finder is not working for what ever reason . Do you not take a shot , pack up and leave the woods or do you just fling an arrow at it hoping that you get your prize. I would rather have the confidence in myself , than in a piece of electronics. Because you never know when they will fail.


I think you are missing the point. A rangefinder is a *tool* to IMPROVE your range estimating skills.

How do you practice estimating distance? If you never check your estimates against the real distance how do you know how far off you are and where you need to improve? 

If you really want to improve your yardage estimation, and this is said by most pros, you should practice estimating distances and then check the real range either by pacing it off or with a rangefinder. Personally a rangefinder is just easier and more accurate than stepping it off, especially in broken or uneven terrain.

A rangefinder can also be a great tool while hunting. I've taken deer in the last couple years at ranges that I never would have shot at before but made the shot with confidence because I knew the exact range. 

A rangefinder can be a great tool and while you are right nothing is foolproof I've never had a problem with my rangefinder. You never know when your mechanical release aid, string loop, etc. will fail either but most archers agree their worth the risk because of their accuracy benefits. The same goes for rangefinders.


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## Bucks Spirit (Apr 21, 2006)

IA Monsterbuck said:


> I think you are missing the point. A rangefinder is a *tool* to IMPROVE your range estimating skills.
> 
> How do you practice estimating distance? If you never check your estimates against the real distance how do you know how far off you are and where you need to improve?
> 
> ...


 My sight has four pins set at 20,30,40 and 50 yards. I taped out those yardages in my yard and practice ,practice,practice. I am also pretty decent a judging the between yardages . Also every 3D shoot that I go to is a teaching and learning tool for me.


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## Tracker12 (Sep 22, 2003)

What a noval idea. Actually replicating what most of us do in the field. Good on your club.


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## njshadowwalker (Aug 14, 2004)

Most times one in our group has one. We shoot first and range after all arrows are gone to see how we judged.

However it doesnt get ranged till we shoot. 

Anyone ranging first should be reported...no scores w/ finders should be allowed. Simple as that.


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## r302 (Apr 5, 2004)

*Good Question!*



Simpson said:


> Why is it everything progressive starts in the west and works it's way east? LOL!


I'm not brave enough to answer it.:embara:


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## spark (Sep 20, 2006)

*Warning: Do not read this unless you can take a joke*

I'll take it from here r302, it's really quite simple. WE''RE SMARTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm only kidding, so don't get your panties in a wad.:zip: 


No Fences:zip:


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## Simpson (Dec 11, 2006)

spark said:


> I'll take it from here r302, it's really quite simple. WE''RE SMARTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm only kidding, so don't get your panties in a wad.:zip:
> 
> 
> No Fences:zip:


I like victoria secrets brand best, the wife keeps saying "why are all my panties in the laundry, I have 30 pair dammit"................LMAO!


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## TTG (Aug 1, 2003)

I agree with everthing PAJAY & Mosterbuck have posted , #1 There are hunters and there are target guys, very TRUE, #2 rangefinders are a great tool for improving your yardage judgment, very TRUE. Then there are these guys saying, play by the rules NO RANGEFINDERS, well I was at that shoot and the rules also say: Any part of the archers body must touch the stake. O.K. how many people were cheating???? IMO, I dont see the need to have a BOW HUNTER FINGERS class, instead they should have a BOW HUNTERS OPEN PRACTICE class, were you dont turn in your score sheet. Also if they made that class, me and alot of hunters would enter that class. I bet most of the hunters there are not there for a plauqe or trophy they just want to become better hunters. Bottom line is the league needs to somehow separate the HUNTERS from the TARGET SHOOTERS.


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## Bucks Spirit (Apr 21, 2006)

well I guess alot of us can agree to disagree. But if I did not hunt and was a target shooter, I myself wouldn't be shooting 3D . I think I would be shooting paper. If an archer is a target shooter, why would we call it a Bow Hunters Open Practice Class .


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## OA3D (Feb 26, 2007)

So what's the difference between a range finder and settuing your pins in such a method to range a deer between your first and second pins. IE approx 17 & 23. I know it's done and "legal".
I am a fan of range finders in competive classes and I am no good at judging yardage.


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## oneluckypops (Feb 24, 2007)

TTG said:


> I agree with everthing PAJAY & Mosterbuck have posted , #1 There are hunters and there are target guys, very TRUE, #2 rangefinders are a great tool for improving your yardage judgment, very TRUE. Then there are these guys saying, play by the rules NO RANGEFINDERS, well I was at that shoot and the rules also say: Any part of the archers body must touch the stake. O.K. how many people were cheating???? IMO, I dont see the need to have a BOW HUNTER FINGERS class, instead they should have a BOW HUNTERS OPEN PRACTICE class, were you dont turn in your score sheet. Also if they made that class, me and alot of hunters would enter that class. I bet most of the hunters there are not there for a plauqe or trophy they just want to become better hunters. Bottom line is the league needs to somehow separate the HUNTERS from the TARGET SHOOTERS.


Heres an idea BRING YOUR HUNTING BOWS. shot in a shoot today and took twice aslong as it should have because was shooting behind a group of 4-5 all with scopes or atleast limit the number to 2 scopes to a group


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## Camo (Jan 12, 2005)

oneluckypops said:


> Heres an idea BRING YOUR HUNTING BOWS. shot in a shoot today and took twice aslong as it should have because was shooting behind a group of 4-5 all with scopes or atleast limit the number to 2 scopes to a group


I'm a little confused, I shoot Hunter Class but have shot with all Comp Class guys in my group, and none of them take any longer to shoot than anyone else. If anything they pick up the scoring rings in their scopes without the need to bino them first. No need to pick on the Comp Class.....There is plenty of room for all of us.:shade:


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## oneluckypops (Feb 24, 2007)

Camo said:


> I'm a little confused, I shoot Hunter Class but have shot with all Comp Class guys in my group, and none of them take any longer to shoot than anyone else. If anything they pick up the scoring rings in their scopes without the need to bino them first. No need to pick on the Comp Class.....There is plenty of room for all of us.:shade:


Group of 4 shooters with scopes still use binos to look at the target fine we all do that or is it range finders there looking thru still takes them 3-4 minutes on each target with 4 in the group thats 12-16 minutes at each target with 42 targets at the last shoot 504-672minutes they could be like golfers and let others go ahead but have yet to see that thats over 8 hours for a 3d match whats to be confused about that???

We were suppose to have our score cards turned in at 3 it was 5:30 before we were able to finish surely they dont take those setups in the woods to hunt with I am not saying they have to do away with open class but they should limit the number in the group to 2. But when i go to a 3d shoot its to have fun and practice FOR HUNTING with my hunting setup


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## rudeman (Jan 25, 2006)

What I don't get is why, when there are four in a group, the other three can't glass the target while the first guy is shooting?!?! I realize at that point that they're a whole two yards away from the shooting stake, but still . . . the 'X' spot doesn't change when you walk up to the stake.


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## Camo (Jan 12, 2005)

oneluckypops said:


> Group of 4 shooters with scopes still use binos to look at the target fine we all do that or is it range finders there looking thru still takes them 3-4 minutes on each target with 4 in the group thats 12-16 minutes at each target with 42 targets at the last shoot 504-672minutes they could be like golfers and let others go ahead but have yet to see that thats over 8 hours for a 3d match whats to be confused about that???
> 
> We were suppose to have our score cards turned in at 3 it was 5:30 before we were able to finish surely they dont take those setups in the woods to hunt with I am not saying they have to do away with open class but they should limit the number in the group to 2. But when i go to a 3d shoot its to have fun and practice FOR HUNTING with my hunting setup



What about the 2 minute rule? Over 2 minutes, lose the shot.....Right?:secret:


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## gator (Aug 11, 2003)

Does it matter THAT much?? As long as they aren't competing, who cares??? I used one this weekend, and last weekend, and let me tell you, I can see a BIG improvement in my ranging in the last couple of weeks. It's people that are totally against them that are gonna cause people like myself to NEVER get into 3D competively. Think about it................


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## funkymunky (Jun 29, 2005)

Quote "No left right misses, just poor yardage."
How many times we hear that?

Not a word for word quote, but........."I shoot with my hunting rig to practice for hunting."
Yeah, right.


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## oneluckypops (Feb 24, 2007)

TTG said:


> I agree with everthing PAJAY & Mosterbuck have posted , #1 There are hunters and there are target guys, very TRUE, #2 rangefinders are a great tool for improving your yardage judgment, very TRUE. Then there are these guys saying, play by the rules NO RANGEFINDERS, well I was at that shoot and the rules also say: Any part of the archers body must touch the stake. O.K. how many people were cheating???? IMO, I dont see the need to have a BOW HUNTER FINGERS class, instead they should have a BOW HUNTERS OPEN PRACTICE class, were you dont turn in your score sheet. Also if they made that class, me and alot of hunters would enter that class. I bet most of the hunters there are not there for a plauqe or trophy they just want to become better hunters. Bottom line is the league needs to somehow separate the HUNTERS from the TARGET SHOOTERS.


a practice class would be nice but you cant take away the fingers class if you take that away you take away a class for the one armed shooter on here as he shoots with a mouth tab


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## oneluckypops (Feb 24, 2007)

TTG said:


> I agree with everthing PAJAY & Mosterbuck have posted , #1 There are hunters and there are target guys, very TRUE, #2 rangefinders are a great tool for improving your yardage judgment, very TRUE. Then there are these guys saying, play by the rules NO RANGEFINDERS, well I was at that shoot and the rules also say: Any part of the archers body must touch the stake. O.K. how many people were cheating???? IMO, I dont see the need to have a BOW HUNTER FINGERS class, instead they should have a BOW HUNTERS OPEN PRACTICE class, were you dont turn in your score sheet. Also if they made that class, me and alot of hunters would enter that class. I bet most of the hunters there are not there for a plauqe or trophy they just want to become better hunters. Bottom line is the league needs to somehow separate the HUNTERS from the TARGET SHOOTERS.





Camo said:


> What about the 2 minute rule? Over 2 minutes, lose the shot.....Right?:secret:


I am new to this but havent seen that enforced yet


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## oneluckypops (Feb 24, 2007)

funkymunky said:


> Quote "No left right misses, just poor yardage."
> How many times we hear that?
> 
> Not a word for word quote, but........."I shoot with my hunting rig to practice for hunting."
> Yeah, right.


60 lbs 252 fps with 380g "HUNTING arrows" if i am gonna get good at judging yardages and taking tricky shots i want to do it with the set up that i will use when im hunting i use the same set up for everthing including spot shooting i do the 3d to learn the yardages and learn my pin gaps as ive got alot of tip weight for competitive shooting


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## maxy (Mar 22, 2007)

*First post ever*

I shot that course, and it is a good league. I do use a rangefinder on occasion when I’m just shooting for fun, which is 90% of the time. I very seldom turn my card in any more because I have more fun competing against my son. After a year of shooting youth and winning trophy’s he now shoots hunter release and uses a rangefinder only after first estimating the yardage with me, he is usually closer, and of course we don’t turn in our cards. He now is getting good at estimating and doesn’t worry about losing arrows and now he enjoys shooting against dear old dad. I hope you all get to enjoy shooting 3D with your kids the way I do. So if you want to shoot for a trophy then goes for it and you should obey all the rules. However if you just want to shoot to enjoy yourself without turning in your card, pay your entry fee to support the league don’t ruin it for others on the course any enjoy!


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## TTG (Aug 1, 2003)

Welcome to best archery site Maxy, good first post ,not everyone looks at it that way I guess


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## Camo (Jan 12, 2005)

Camo said:


> What about the 2 minute rule? Over 2 minutes, lose the shot.....Right?:secret:


Here is the IBO ruling on this:

5. Each archer shall be allowed a maximum of two minutes to complete his or
her shot. This rule shall operate as follows:

a. Time will begin for the first archer when the previous group clears the target.
Time will begin for the next archer when the previous archer releases his or
her arrow.

b. Archers should be sensitive to the time concerns of the groups behind 
them and make every attempt to shoot in a timely manner. An archer 
found to be over his or her allotted time by a range official will have five 
points deducted from his or her score. If the actions of a whole group are 
contrary to this rule, each person in the group may have five points 
deducted from his or her score.

c. After shooting, the shooter should immediately clear the stake for the
next shooter. Using binoculars from the shooting stake after the shot is
prohibited. Repeated violations of this rule will result in a five point
deduction of the shooters score for each violation.

d. Repeated violation of an archer’s two minute time limit is considered 
to be un-sportsmanlike conduct.

6. There shall be no discussion of yardage until all arrows have been scored.
Discussion of yardage is permitted only among archers who have shot the 
subject target and must be done in a manner to ensure that other archers 
who have yet to shoot the target will not be assisted.


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