# Recurve Bow Weight at the Olympics



## SOCAL_34

I might have missed this thread.....Does anyone know what weight the medal contenders were shooting?


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## chrstphr

the heaviest was #58 lbs by one of the Italian archers. Brady was at #56lbs. I would suspect most were #48-#52 for the men. #40-44 ish for the women.

This was in a thread on here. 

Chris


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## SOCAL_34

Thanks


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## Bean Burrito

chrstphr said:


> the heaviest was #58 lbs by one of the Italian archers. Brady was at #56lbs. I would suspect most were #48-#52 for the men. #40-44 ish for the women.
> 
> This was in a thread on here.
> 
> Chris


Mauro Nespoli was the one shooting 58# or so.


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## Zbone

"the heaviest was #58 lbs by one of the Italian archers. Brady was at #56lbs. I would suspect most were #48-#52 for the men. #40-44 ish for the women."

hmmm, never dreamed they were holding that heavy.... Maybe I read wrong, but back in the day wasn't the mid 30's the norm?


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## Viper1

Gents - 

If asked out of curiosity, the "what weight" thing is always a fair question. 

If asked with any other motive, it's kinda like asking what fuel are NASCAR drivers using, and assuming since those guys are using it, I might as well go for it as well. The difference is running high octane fuel in your Toyota will only hurt your wallet, while trying to emulate what the guys on the Olympic team are doing can have more dire results.

For most of us, trying to shoot 50# or more with an Olympic bow is insane. 

While there have been arguments made for heavier being better, the fine print that's often forgotten, is the being able to handle it part. For a while, the women were shooting in the high 30 - low 40# range and out shooting the men. Just something to think about. 

Viper1 out.


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## Greysides

I think Alvarez was pulling a very high weight too.


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## Greysides

Greysides said:


> I think Alvarez was pulling a very high weight too.



56# as it happens.

http://www.archeryworldcup.org/results/archer_update.asp?id=6711&action=&onyuz


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## Huntmaster

Just as fun, what dead weight of bow do you guys think the archers are shooting? How does that translate to draw weight?

I know one or two, but I'll hold off for just a bit.


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## frankjd

in the early 60's nor'east, i witnessed 35# (+/- 3# or so) as pretty much the norm for amateur men's recurve naa events (typically, the american round out to 60 yards), and deer hunting was low to high 40's. and that was with those old woody bows, uber slow maple and glass limbs, and "super b43" dacron (polyester) strings. hah! we've come a long way, baby. but those sure were fun dayze .....


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## Zbone

Thanx for the link Greysides...

This guy only draws 21#, but draws a 79" arrow...8^)

http://www.archery.org/results/archer_update.asp?id=3026&action=&onyuz=


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## Bean Burrito

Zbone said:


> Thanx for the link Greysides...
> 
> This guy only draws 21#, but draws a 79" arrow...8^)
> 
> http://www.archery.org/results/archer_update.asp?id=3026&action=&onyuz=


Very obviously a mistake? That draw length would be longer than his wingspan.


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## unclejane

holy smokes, I'm barely holding 20# on my W&W and it's a workout for me. Fortunately no return of my injury but I could, and probably will, shoot this weight for months and months and still be getting used to it lol..

LS


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## limbwalker

Huntmaster said:


> Just as fun, what dead weight of bow do you guys think the archers are shooting? How does that translate to draw weight?
> 
> I know one or two, but I'll hold off for just a bit.


I put all my bows on a scale so the measure exactly 7 lbs. shooting weight. I suspect some of the men were shooting 8 lb. bows, and some were a little lighter. 

It's pretty tough to set up a full Olympic recurve with side rods, etc. that doesn't weigh at least 6 lbs. Even for the women.

John


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## chrstphr

i noticed this year at the olympics that some of the Korean men had added weights to their riser top and bottom to make the riser heavier. 



Chris


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## Vittorio

For ladies in London, top poundage handled by Kathuna Lorig, 49#. Average was around 40#. For the Italian team, Lionetti 42#, Valeeva 37#, Tomasi 36#. 

Heavier pondage, heavier stabilizers/total bow weigh needed to control it ...

You could guess who was shooting the stronger bow looking to the speed indicator on the field. But just guess, as parmeters are also influenced by limbs efficiency and arrow weight. The indicator was showing Km/H, but in reality it was in Ft/sec. Top men spee was Nespoli with 236, second was Brady with 224... Rumors anyhow say Brady was shooting new Easton arrows that are lighter than X10, Nespoli was shooting Kaya K5 limbs, Brady Hoyt F7 , so at the end it is quite difficult to compre speeds even if arrows have similar lenght.


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## Bean Burrito

Vittorio said:


> For ladies in London, top poundage handled by Kathuna Lorig, 49#. Average was around 40#. For the Italian team, Lionetti 42#, Valeeva 37#, Tomasi 36#.
> 
> Heavier pondage, heavier stabilizers/total bow weigh needed to control it ...
> 
> You could guess who was shooting the stronger bow looking to the speed indicator on the field. But just guess, as parmeters are also influenced by limbs efficiency and arrow weight. The indicator was showing Km/H, but in reality it was in Ft/sec. Top men spee was Nespoli with 236, second was Brady with 224... Rumors anyhow say Brady was shooting new Easton arrows that are lighter than X10, Nespoli was shooting Kaya K5 limbs, Brady Hoyt F7 , so at the end it is quite difficult to compre speeds even if arrows have similar lenght.


224 km/h is pretty consistent with what Brady's shot for a while I think, plus going to a new arrow right before the Olympics would surprise me.


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## SBills

Bean Burrito said:


> plus going to a new arrow right before the Olympics would surprise me.


If you follow twitter, Brady mentioned he was toying with new arrow setup in mid May. Soooo..........


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## limbwalker

> going to a new arrow right before the Olympics would surprise me.


Doesn't surprise me one bit. I'm sure Easton was hoping they had a "lock" on a gold medal with Brady, and then they would roll out their new arrow featuring him and his gold medal in all the advertising.

Maybe next time... So unless Oh was using the prototypes, they'll just have to wait and hope.


Instead, Carbon Express gets to do that now, featuring Frangilli  

Carbon Express Nano Pro - when only a 10 will do...


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## tecshooter05

SBills said:


> If you follow twitter, Brady mentioned he was toying with new arrow setup in mid May. Soooo..........


if you look at pictures you notice bradys arrows have different cresting then other x10's. the labels are very dull. so maybe its true, maybe its not


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## DIV

Photo link please?


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## limbwalker

Considering Brady shot below his own standard at the Olympics, I'd be pretty reluctant to roll out a new arrow right now if I were Easton. Might wait to see what happens at the world champ's or something...

Unless of course Oh was shooting them, and you're comfortable with a Korean on the home page instead of an American. But I doubt Oh was using them. More likely that Im was, but probably not him either. I can't imagine the Koreans would even consider trying something new just months before the Olympics.

John


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## kshet26

I don't own X10s but there seem to be some interesting markings / cresting differences to these:








Bigger pic here.


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## limbwalker

Well, those aren't the arrows he was shooting at the trials in April. At least, the nocks are different, which would lead me to believe the shafts are different too.

Who knows. Arrow companies experiment with prototypes all the time. If they don't, they should. 

Easton is long overdue for an update to the X10. New technology is available and I'm sure they will take advantage of it in a new arrow. Besides, the X10 finally has some long-awaited competition, so even if the "new" arrow really is nothing new, marketing formulas demand that an update must be announced to counter the competition.

John


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## Bean Burrito

SBills said:


> If you follow twitter, Brady mentioned he was toying with new arrow setup in mid May. Soooo..........


But a new arrow setup could mean anything- point weight, stiffness, tune, nock type, vanes, vane position etc.

Look- he had (and still has) a winning formula- changing that right before such a huge event would often be an unwise move.


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## >--gt-->

Amazing what the use of a gold Sharpie can lead to, in terms of uninformed speculation...


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## Scott.Barrett

How much will the gold Sharpie raise my scores? :wink:


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## limbwalker

George, I recognized the gold sharpie over the labels for what it was. My observation was based on his change from Beiter pin nocks to Beiter in-out nocks since April. Or didn't you catch that?


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## Huntmaster

Scott.Barrett said:


> How much will the gold Sharpie raise my scores? :wink:


3 to 5 points if used in combination with floating :ninja:


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## ArcherFletch

Bean Burrito said:


> Quote Originally Posted by Zbone View Post
> Thanx for the link Greysides...
> 
> This guy only draws 21#, but draws a 79" arrow...8^)
> 
> http://www.archery.org/results/arche...action=&onyuz=Very obviously a mistake? That draw length would be longer than his wingspan.


Probably was a 79cm that he was reading... this would be about 31 inches.


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## >--gt-->

John,

Brady was not shooting a prototype arrow. He shot ordinary X10 shafts which he painted with a gold Sharpie.

Or didn't you catch that?


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## limbwalker

George, thanks for the clarification. However, I don't think I suggested he was shooting a prototype arrow. What I said was:



> Well, those aren't the arrows he was shooting at the trials in April. At least, the nocks are different, which would lead me to believe the shafts are different too.
> 
> Who knows.


Nowhere do I mention prototypes in that statement. I have said it's not uncommon for archers to test prototypes - even at major events - because there is a lot to be gained by the company if they can introduce a new arrow right after a major victory. So had Brady been shooting prototypes, it would have only made sense if Easton were hoping to release a new arrow soon. What better ad campaign than to be able to claim that their new arrow just won Olympic gold with a "10" on the final shot? 

If Brady switched from Beiter pin nocks to Beiter In-Out nocks, that tells me there was a slight change in either the arrow, or the bow. Since that's enough difference to affect bare shaft tuning at 70M by at least 10-12"


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## >--gt-->

I think Easton is happy with X10 shooters winning every title and 23/24 medals including every single individual medal. No need to "wait and hope" when athletes using your product have won every title and every medal but one at these Games.

It's true you didn't mention "prototypes" in one of your statements but you certainly did speak of "prototypes", in a matter-of-fact manner, in two other comments on this thread:



> Doesn't surprise me one bit. I'm sure Easton was hoping they had a "lock" on a gold medal with Brady, and then *they would roll out their new arrow* featuring him and his gold medal in all the advertising.
> 
> Maybe next time... So *unless Oh was using the prototypes*, they'll just have to wait and hope.


and 



> Unless of course Oh was shooting them, and you're comfortable with a Korean on the home page instead of an American. But I doubt Oh was using them. More likely that Im was, but probably not him either.


Now, John, perhaps I missed your intent, but it seems to me, that you did indeed mention "prototypes". Perhaps you didn't catch that?

No one was shooting anything other than X10 normal production shafts in London except one single team member (and Michele really executed the shot of a lifetime! I was so happy for him to finally connect.). His two teammates also shot X10, and I think you might agree they did contribute to the win.


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## TER

limbwalker said:


> If Brady switched from Beiter pin nocks to Beiter In-Out nocks, that tells me there was a slight change in either the arrow, or the bow. Since that's enough difference to affect bare shaft tuning at 70M by at least 10-12"


Do they look like Beiter In-Out nocks or possibly Beiter Pin-Out nocks? AFAIK, the Beiter In-Out nocks are commercially available only in the colors heavy yellow, heavy orange, heavy blue, heavy green, black and white. The Pin-Out nocks are commercially available in fluorescent red. Those are some pretty deep red great looking nocks in that pic of Brady.


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## limbwalker

TER, good point. They may be the pin-out nocks. It's hard to tell the difference between those and In-out nocks. Either way, it's a switch, and there are few reasons to switch nocks other than a change in setup or a change in arrows.

George, the X10 arrow has a tremendous track record in elite competition. Easton has a lot to be proud of for sure. I've always said it is a fantastic arrow, as is the A/C/E, and I recommend Easton arrows to the multitude of archers who ask my advice quite often. 



> No one was shooting anything other than X10 normal production shafts in London except one single team member (and Michele really executed the shot of a lifetime! I was so happy for him to finally connect.). His two teammates also shot X10, and I think you might agree they did contribute to the win.


Good to know that. Agree totally on Michele shooting the shot of his life. It was thrilling to watch! Certainly he and his teammates all deserve to have won.

My comments were speculative in nature, that IF a company was to roll out a prototype arrow, under what conditions I thought it would make the most sense from a marketing perspective. That is all. I don't think I ever said with certainty that anyone was shooting a prototype Easton arrow because that never entered my mind until the question was raised. When it was noted that Brady himself raised the issue, that certainly made me wonder though... 

Can you or will you offer any insight into Brady's comments?

John


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## >--gt-->

> Can you or will you offer any insight into Brady's comments?


Cannot speak for Brady. I will point out, however, that my recollection of his Twitter comment was related to a form change. I don't recall arrows being mentioned.



> there are few reasons to switch nocks other than a change in setup or a change in arrows.


Or a change in form, such as an adjustment to draw length or finger engagement, tab thickness, or a multitude of other variables. I'm sure you know that.


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## Bean Burrito

Was the gold sharpie just to screw with people, or to hide arrow setup (would surprise me, there isn't exactly a large number of spines Brady would choose from)? (assuming you know)

Or perhaps even to mark his comp arrows against practice ones..


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## lksseven

Bean,

_"Or perhaps even to mark his comp arrows against practice ones.."_

Yes, this is what I thought, too. The picture showed 3 shafts with the gold sharpie, and at least one that looked 'sans gold sharpie', so I just figured he considered those three arrows to be his 'best ones'.

Note to <..gt..> - it's just a conversational musing, not a 'contention', so spare me some kind of caustic comment.


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## SBills

Brady had mentioned (twitter posts) in the same time frame that he was playing with (heavy) poundage, an inch off the back and arrow point weight combos so perhaps any coloring was just to differentiate the arrows. 

There was not a mention of "new" arrows just different setups. This was all mid May so not really "just before" the Olympics, but seemed within the topic of conversation.

As you were.


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## limbwalker

> Or a change in form, such as an adjustment to draw length or finger engagement, tab thickness, or a multitude of other variables. I'm sure you know that.


Yes, but I ruled those out because an archer like Brady certainly wouldn't be changing any of those things so close to a major competition. However, a slight decrease in draw weight or a different set of limbs could easily lead to the need to switch nocks to achieve a tune. So either that, or a different batch of arrows, seemed the most likely explanation.

I recognized the gold sharpie for what it was - and could easily just be as simple as keeping batches of arrows seperate. However, I found the change in nocks to be the significant thing in that photo.

And by "different" arrows, I don't necessarily mean prototypes either. If he simply got another set of X10's prior to the games, such a change could easily be in order to get the tune.

John


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## Matt Z

Gotta say being a graphics guy, that's pretty impressive sharpie work. You can even see he colored the 'X' and the '10' perfectly within the circles. Love his attention to detail and steady hand. Can't imagine how steady his aperture is when aiming, makes me jealous!


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## Rick McKinney

:set1_rolf2:


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## Zbone

Yeah, am sure 79" is an error.... Wonder if the 21# is also in error... From the link:

"
Birthplace
Belo Horizonte - MG 
City of Residence Belo Horizonte - MG , Brazil 
Height 191 cm / 6.3 ft 
Weight	82 kg / 180.8 lbs 
Right/Left Handed
Right 
Draw Weight	21 lbs / 9.5 kg
Draw Length
79 inches / 200.5 cm 
"


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## Bean Burrito

Zbone said:


> Yeah, am sure 79" is an error.... Wonder if the 21# is also in error... From the link:
> 
> "
> Birthplace
> Belo Horizonte - MG
> City of Residence Belo Horizonte - MG , Brazil
> Height 191 cm / 6.3 ft
> Weight	82 kg / 180.8 lbs
> Right/Left Handed
> Right
> Draw Weight	21 lbs / 9.5 kg
> Draw Length
> 79 inches / 200.5 cm
> "


I would certainly assume so- the arrow would simply not get there. It's clear from watching him shoot that he's pretty regular sized and draws an average (for a competitive archer) weight.


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## Seattlepop

Has anyone tried to do a barreled all-carbon shaft? Would there be any advantage to do so?


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## >--gt-->

Seattlepop said:


> Has anyone tried to do a barreled all-carbon shaft? Would there be any advantage to do so?


Sending you a PM on the question.


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## Ray knight

I am running long 32# F7 carbon/foam limbs on my RX and they are FAST! 38# at my draw length. 70m is no problem at all. Any more weight and i just can't shoot well with a recurve. This weight allows me to HOLD as long as i need to get FIRMLY sighted in and ready to fire. With heavy limbs i just want to let it fly.


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## Ray knight

Bean Burrito said:


> I would certainly assume so- the arrow would simply not get there. It's clear from watching him shoot that he's pretty regular sized and draws an average (for a competitive archer) weight.


I have 20# limbs on my warm-up bow. I am going to see if i can hit 70 meters tomorrow with it. I think it will hit it no problem but i could be very wrong haha.


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## Bean Burrito

>--gt--> said:


> Sending you a PM on the question.


Could you forward the PM on to me also George? Interested from an engineering perspective. Cheers


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## Bean Burrito

Ray knight said:


> I have 20# limbs on my warm-up bow. I am going to see if i can hit 70 meters tomorrow with it. I think it will hit it no problem but i could be very wrong haha.


Well, it probably can get there (as evidenced by beginners trying clout)- what I meant is that shooting that weight (unless with a 71" draw length) will never be effective. A very high aiming angle, wind, bounce outs etc. would all be huge problems.


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## frankjd

Ray knight said:


> I have 20# limbs on my warm-up bow. I am going to see if i can hit 70 meters tomorrow with it. I think it will hit it no problem but i could be very wrong haha.


why such weenie limbs? are you that new to archery? are you rehabing an injury? with 20# holding weight you ain't gonna hit 70 meters unless at a near 45 degree angle and the word "accuracy" will never enter the results. stick to 20 yards at best and carefully start a weight training regimen to work up to at least 30# or better. i've been in the archery game since the early 50's and though i pull a 55# hybrid longbow for hunting i'm getting back to fingers recurve target archery with 34# holding weight and will carefully work up to a tad over 40#. the hardest part for me is training the bow hand to hold up 7# instead of 2#.


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## Huntmaster

weenie limbs? Why would you even concern yourself with his warmup bow anyway?

And for those still concerned about the dimensions given for the archer in question, lets try 79cm and 21kg....makes a little more sense.


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## frankjd

Huntmaster said:


> weenie limbs? Why would you even concern yourself with his warmup bow anyway? ...


guess i just can't wrap my brain around "warm up limbs" - makes no sense to me. we never used/did/whatever that back in the 60's/70's. we trained and "warmed up" with the one weight we used for all paper punching. but i'm old and probably senile, so what the h3ll do i know.


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## rharper

So you never warmed up by stretching before any physical activity? Just because this gent uses a bow to warm up or need to use Liteweight limbs for whatever reason is no reason to throw insults.


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## aaronthesun

Bean Burrito said:


> Could you forward the PM on to me also George? Interested from an engineering perspective. Cheers


George, I am also interested in what you have to say on the topic. Could you please send me the PM as well?


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## Bean Burrito

frankjd said:


> guess i just can't wrap my brain around "warm up limbs" - makes no sense to me. we never used/did/whatever that back in the 60's/70's. we trained and "warmed up" with the one weight we used for all paper punching. but i'm old and probably senile, so what the h3ll do i know.


I'm sure there's plenty of things you can't wrap your brain around.


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## frankjd

Bean Burrito said:


> I'm sure there's plenty of things you can't wrap your brain around.


in this current world, yeah man - take that to the bank, bud.

so. please explain to me the benefits of "warming up" with 20# limbs as opposed to yer 38# limbs?


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## m013690

frankjd said:


> guess i just can't wrap my brain around "warm up limbs" - makes no sense to me. we never used/did/whatever that back in the 60's/70's.


You also weren't using an internet discussion forum to insult your fellow archers back in the 60s and 70s either. That's what we call progress... I guess...


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## frankjd

m013690 said:


> You also weren't using an internet discussion forum to insult your fellow archers back in the 60s and 70s either. That's what we call progress... I guess...


lighten up, no insults were given.


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## Bean Burrito

frankjd said:


> lighten up, no insults were given.


You don't need to put it in a negative light. "Such weenie limbs"? What draw weight do you shoot?


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## frankjd

Bean Burrito said:


> You don't need to put it in a negative light. "Such weenie limbs"? What draw weight do you shoot?


"weenie" means just that - 20# limbs are for kids, or adults with physical issues. not at all derogatory, it is what it is. if yer normal holding weight is 35# or more, why "warm up" with 20# limbs? i see no advantage, only a detriment as 20# and 35# are like apples 'n' oranges and you the shooter will lose since there are huge shooting differences 'tween the two limb weights in terms of everything, but mostly form. 

school me as to the benefits of swapping down to a low holding weight then going back to yer "normal" holding weight.

i hold a manly 53# @ 29.25". there, now i feel better. NOT. this is silly ...


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## Bean Burrito

frankjd said:


> "weenie" means just that - 20# limbs are for kids, or adults with physical issues. not at all derogatory, it is what it is. if yer normal holding weight is 35# or more, why "warm up" with 20# limbs? i see no advantage, only a detriment as 20# and 35# are like apples 'n' oranges and you the shooter will lose since there are huge shooting differences 'tween the two limb weights in terms of everything, but mostly form.
> 
> school me as to the benefits of swapping down to a low holding weight then going back to yer "normal" holding weight.
> 
> i hold a manly 53# @ 29.25". there, now i feel better. NOT. this is silly ...


Hah- you're such a macho man. Are there benefits of warming up on lighter limbs? I don't know. Obviously he feels there's a benefit.

Berating others on shooting a low weight is stupid. I'd be very surprised if you could handle 53# effectively and perform best at that weight as it is. If you're against someone shooting 34# and they beat you by a point, guess what, you've still lost.

Taylor Worth is shooting about 48# and quickly offed Brady in London. 56# didn't save him when Taylor read the wind much better.


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## frankjd

Bean Burrito said:


> Hah- you're such a macho man. Are there benefits of warming up on lighter limbs? I don't know. Obviously he feels there's a benefit.
> 
> Berating others on shooting a low weight is stupid. I'd be very surprised if you could handle 53# effectively and perform best at that weight as it is. If you're against someone shooting 34# and they beat you by a point, guess what, you've still lost.
> 
> Taylor Worth is shooting about 48# and quickly offed Brady in London. 56# didn't save him when Taylor read the wind much better.


ack, you totally miss the point. if yer normally flinging at 35# WHY would you wanna 'warm up' with 20#? show me a valid reason why a fit archer would wanna drop down in weight to 'warm up', then shoot a tourney at nearly twice that weight.

i routinely HUNT with 53-57# longbows, and i HOLD at those weights, no snap shooting. getting back into 'target archery', i'm holding at about 35.5#, for starters. that's my weenie holding weight, for now. when i get back up to around 40+ pounds i'll sell off the weenie limbs.


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## Bean Burrito

frankjd said:


> ack, you totally miss the point. if yer normally flinging at 35# WHY would you wanna 'warm up' with 20#? show me a valid reason why a fit archer would wanna drop down in weight to 'warm up', then shoot a tourney at nearly twice that weight.
> 
> i routinely HUNT with 53-57# longbows, and i HOLD at those weights, no snap shooting. getting back into 'target archery', i'm holding at about 35.5#, for starters. that's my weenie holding weight, for now. when i get back up to around 40+ pounds i'll sell off the weenie limbs.


No, you're missing the point. 20lb limbs shouldn't be called "weenie" limbs. There's plenty of beginners around here, as evidenced by the ten trillion equipment help threads recently. All too many beginners think they're super special macho men and are above shooting low draw weights. And goddamn, I get sick of trying to coach beginners who want to shoot a hundred pounds. Makes it way too hard to reinforce form. I'd be happy if all my beginners were willing to shoot 20 pounds while they learnt.

Asides from that, I'm not sure why he wants to warm up with 20#. I've never been one for stretches or much warming up, but perhaps there's method to his madness


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## chrstphr

I currently shoot #50 lbs at full draw. I personally find it harder to shoot if i shoot a lower poundage bow against it. Sometimes at JOAD night, a kid will think they have a problem with his /her bow, so i will shoot theirs. Going from #50lbs to #25 and then back to #50 makes my bow seem harder to hold, than when i dont shoot anything but my bow. Then its easy or normal. 

I think warming up with #20lb bow and then moving to #34ish will make it harder to pull and hold the #34 lb bow at first. Seems detrimental, but if it is working for the guy, then by all means do what works for you. 


Chris


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## unclejane

> No, you're missing the point. 20lb limbs shouldn't be called "weenie" limbs. There's plenty of beginners around here, as evidenced by the ten trillion equipment help threads recently. All too many beginners think they're super special macho men and are above shooting low draw weights. And goddamn, I get sick of trying to coach beginners who want to shoot a hundred pounds. Makes it way too hard to reinforce form. I'd be happy if all my beginners were willing to shoot 20 pounds while they learnt.


I proudly shoot Weenie Limbs on my Win&Win - a set of SF Axiom 16lb (AMO) longs -, though I'm in the category of a retread archer with a history of a bad overuse injury in the right shoulder. Basically, that makes me a beginner or that's what I consider myself at this point. OTOH, I can shoot for a long time, hoisting my little 1713 XX75 arrows with a ton of solder in the NIBBS in that big ol' arc to my target a mere 20 yards away. It's a thing of beauty to me.

So, you could be my coach anytime; it's refreshing to see someone embracing sanity and understanding that you can learn form and shooting on a Weenie bow just as good, and in fact probably much better, as you could on a Macho 50#+ rig and with vastly less risk of developing some kind of chronic problem. I bet the Weenies don't post endlessly on AT about how their shoulders hurt and need joint replacements and pins and artificial ligaments and on and on after 10 years either like the Macho guys do.

As for warming up, I guess it doesn't really matter. Even on my Weenie bow it takes about 6 to 10 arrows to settle in and get going, but that's what it took on my previous Macho bows also.... 

LS


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## Bean Burrito

I think you can learn most efficiently on a bow that

a) suits your strength and development
b) is effective (come on, the arrows need to get to and stay in the target)

Reinforce the form on the light limbs- less fatigue, less injury risk, and far easier to learn and reinforce good form with. As you've learnt, light limbs are also vital for recovering from an injury. We have a beginner learning at our club at the moment (well, he's been here for a while and has joined). He's quite consistent, has quite good form with a smooth release and gets good, consistent groupings without large deviations. Though now he's come to the stage where he wants to purchase his own equipment, and was convinced he needed to shoot super high weight.

To prove a point, I handed him my bow. Probably about 40# on the fingers at his draw. He could draw it, and shoot, and held better than I expected him to. But in reality he was shaking a lot and wasn't up to the weight, and was getting worse groupings. I found some cheaper lighter limbs and let him try them (about 30# on the fingers) to a much better result.


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## chrstphr

I would not call any draw weight weenie. Its all perspective. My son started shooting at 2.5 years old, he couldnt even talk at that time. The bow has a draw weight of #8lbs. I doubt anyone would call his drawing #8lbs weenie. 

http://s2.photobucket.com/albums/y32/chrstphr/Archery/?action=view&current=2080955272194_25012.mp4

http://s2.photobucket.com/albums/y32/chrstphr/Archery/?action=view&current=2080955272194_25012.mp4

Chris


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## unclejane

Well I'm exaggerating a bit on my arrow flight. The flight at 20 yards is actually not that much less flat than when I shot higher poundages (the extra weight in my NIBBS is needed to get a decent tune for now, they're just hopelessly stiff with stock NIBBS). But further away, yeah I start reaching for the sky a bit.

But I kind of don't care right now, since I'm more a) seeing if the injury recurs at _any_ weight and then, if a) turns out ok, b) hitting the target butt with something period and that's enough and c) Try to get a decent form back. 

In fact, in the last month or so I've discovered on my own about 12 different form mistakes I was making when I was shooting 15 years ago. I don't think I'd have been able to debug those without the Weenie limbs. 

To be honest, I missed shooting so much and enjoy it so much now, I don't think I'd care if I couldn't ever shoot more than a Weenie Weight of 20#. After 15 years without being able to shoot at all, I think I'd be ok if shooting groups at 20 yards was all I could do. I'm hoping I can work up to more over time, tho, since my first love - field shooting - is what I ultimately want to get back to.
PS: I should report I'm shooting groups at 10 yards now with a foam+pin makeshift sight so the form work is starting to help. I'm at least regaining a little bit of consistency and at least sort of shooting at a spot again.

But yes I bet a healthy shoulder could probably build up to 30# plus much quicker than a questionable one like mine, where I have to be _reeeally_ careful about gauging the problem. 30# is a wonderful dream for me at this point, but my fingers are crossed 

LS


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## unclejane

> My son started shooting at 2.5 years old, he couldnt even talk at that time. The bow has a draw weight of #8lbs. I doubt anyone would call his drawing #8lbs weenie.


Now that is just flat-out amazing... Already a champ at 2 1/2 years!

LS


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## Ray knight

I warm up with light limbs for a very good reason. To build my focus level. I rarely shoot well until i fire 20-25 shots to get focused. So i don't waste my stamina by warming up with heavier limbs. I shoot 15-20 with light limbs then 15-20 with my standard limbs before i am fully focused and ready to compete. It works for me. And i have some 80+ # compounds a well. Its not that i don't have the strength, i just don't need to prove how large my muscles are, i would rather just be able to focus enough to get all my arrows in the 10 ring without wearing myself out.


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## Ray knight

frankjd said:


> why such weenie limbs? are you that new to archery? are you rehabing an injury? with 20# holding weight you ain't gonna hit 70 meters unless at a near 45 degree angle and the word "accuracy" will never enter the results. stick to 20 yards at best and carefully start a weight training regimen to work up to at least 30# or better. i've been in the archery game since the early 50's and though i pull a 55# hybrid longbow for hunting i'm getting back to fingers recurve target archery with 34# holding weight and will carefully work up to a tad over 40#. the hardest part for me is training the bow hand to hold up 7# instead of 2#.


I shoot the 20# bow (actually around 24# at my DL) at 10-15 yards only. Just to get focused, get my form straight and get my eyes seeing 10s. Then i shoot my RX with 32# F7 limbs which are 36# at my DL. I have no trouble with holding 36# at all. Fact i can hold 60+ no problem. But it wears me out faster and being worn out is no good for accuracy! I have no injuries or strength issues. I can shoot a 100# longbow. I just like lighter limbs for target. 70 meters is no problem at all with 36# F7 carbon/ foam limbs. They are very fast. I see no reason for me to increase the weight other than to make my wear out faster. Maybe chew my finger up a bit easier haha.


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## m013690

frankjd said:


> school me as to the benefits of swapping down to a low holding weight then going back to yer "normal" holding weight.


Perhaps he wants to get warmed up before pulling heavier weights. Sprinters do not go out abnd immediately begin running at top speed -- they walk/jog to warm up their muscles before the true exercise begins. Top cyclists do not begin their practice sessions by riding at top speed -- they spin lightly on flat roads or on a stationary trainer to get the blood flowing first and limber up the muscles. Every archery tournament I have been to, the experienced folks are warming up with stretch bands -- how is that any different?

Perhaps it's because lighter weight limbs are less forgiving of form errors, and therefore, when shooting with them, bad form technique that would be masked by the snappier release is more evident, so he can "warm-up" and at the same time ensure that his muscles are feeling what they are supposed to be feeling.

Point is, he could have any number of reasons (only two of which I listed), and its not for you, me, or anyone else to call his choice "weenie" limbs just because YOU, in YOUR little tiny piece of the world, have decided that YOU don't personally accept his ideas for what works well for him.

And you're right, it is silly. What could possibly be the reason to make such a condescending (at best) or insulting (at worst) remark about someone you don't know, have never met, and who, for all you know, may have vastly greater experience than you?

Oh, and the word is "your," not "yer."


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## chrstphr

unclejane said:


> Now that is just flat-out amazing... Already a champ at 2 1/2 years!
> 
> LS


yes, i was amazed he understood what to do. I use to bring him to JOAD nights when i helped out with the kids and I would put him in a play pen where he could see me. I guess he really focused on what everyone was doing. He couldnt walk at the time. I figured he would start around 5 years old or so. But one night i brought him when he was 2 and a half and he pointed that he wanted to do it. So i set him up with a bow and target. He shot right away, understood what he was supposed to do and was able to draw the bow. We video'ed the second time he shot to show our family. those are the videos i linked to. 

He shoots with me a few times a month and loves it. He's my shooting buddy. the links above are both the same. I meant for this one to be the second link. This was the first video we shot. Then we realized you couldnt see that he was drawing on his own, so we shot the second video to show he was doing it. 


http://s2.photobucket.com/albums/y32/chrstphr/Archery/?action=view&current=2081048554526_13689.mp4

http://s2.photobucket.com/albums/y32/chrstphr/Archery/?action=view&current=2080955272194_25012.mp4

Chris


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## Zbone

Chris - That is way cool, video made my day.... Thanx


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## frankjd

i've been called a weenie shooter with 35# limbs. it's no big deal. particularly when i out shoot that 45# overbowed competitor. shoot whatever works for ya.

as someone else on this thread mentioned, it can be a detrimental issue when 'laddering' holding weights, going up 'n' down from, say, 20 to 40 pounds. i think it invites lots of trouble. you wanna stick with a holding weight and interval cross train at a slightly HIGHER holding weight, flipping the bow hand as well. otherwise YER gonna find that flipping below your holding weight can give you issues with that normal holding weight. one of the biggest considerations will be a change in YER fingers release tension - why would you compromise something that you work hard to master and perfect? 

always use the most bow weight you can consistently accurately handle. this goes for target punching as well as bowhunting. it's just common sense and something that *works*. you Never train DOWN unless YER injured. you Always wanna train UP, and do cross arm training at the same time to condition muscle symmetry. you can't condition for your normal bow holding weight by shooting a much lower holding weight. this is true for all disciplines of archery. 

i say all of this as a caution to playing around with a holding weight less than what you normally shoot. i have pesonally seen this do bad things with good archers. 

but surely do whatever turns YERself on, and hopefully works for ya.


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## Huntmaster

Sorry to burst your bubble here, but most shooters DO work with a light bow, including most Olympians. If your form is correct, decreasing in weight will improve your understanding of true good form.


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## Ray knight

Huntmaster said:


> Sorry to burst your bubble here, but most shooters DO work with a light bow, including most Olympians. If your form is correct, decreasing in weight will improve your understanding of true good form.


Exactly. You can draw, hold, check, get a better feel for perfect form.


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## Huntmaster

Ray knight said:


> Exactly. You can draw, hold, check, get a better feel for perfect form.


to add to this, if you go back to full poundage and it doesn't work, you're pulling too much poundage to shoot good form.


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## Ray knight

Huntmaster said:


> to add to this, if you go back to full poundage and it doesn't work, you're pulling too much poundage to shoot good form.


I am definitely on the light side. O have a few sets of heavier limbs 38#, 44#. 48# but i shoot best at 35#. I feel i can focus on the target and hold as long as i need to without getting tired. With heavy recurve limbs they stack up really hard at my draw length an i can hold no longer than 5-6 seconds before i lose focus on the target.


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## Jim Colgate

Wow Chris, your son is amazing!! You are a great Dad!!
Thanks for posting the video's, look to me like he darn near had a Robin Hood!

Jim
:aero:

ps Love my MK Korea Prime limbs, thanks for the help on that.


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## frankjd

*intentionally dropping down in bow holding weight below your well used "norm" is detrimental to overall performance and shooting accuracy on too many levels.* 

the only sane, logical, valid reason for going down in bow holding weight is due to inury/rehab/health .....

OR, yer overbowed, yer "out of shape", ya bit off way more than you can currently chew and swallow. over the course of nearly 5 decades, i've seen this time and time again with amateurs and even "elite fita/oly pros". who hasn't visited this scenario? it surely has happend to moi. shaking and tremors at full draw that don't "settle down" = overbowed for a variety reasons. fix it fast before it ruins good form. 

the act of physically holding and mastering a particular load of weight via the human body requires *load training*. 

you don't train for yer current holding weight by stepping down, you train with yer current weight and/or you *slightly* step up in holding weight. this is basic weight conditioning 101 for strength and endurance, nothing new. hard/easy. the easy is yer current weight, the hard is perhaps 3# or so more. you can condition with yer current bow by overdrawing, but NOT aiming - this is purely an exercise and has nothing to do with shooting a bow, yer bow becomes just a weight training device. try it a few times a day, increase the reps. you will get lots stronger inside of a few weeks (else you have a physical issue). same deal with using bicycle inner tube exercises, just pre-weigh to make sure ya know just what yer pulling (not too much!). and/or seek professional training assistance. save those weenie weight limbs should you unfortunately have an injury. 

sorry, ymmnv.


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## >--gt-->

Lots of excellent shooters work to improve aspects of their form, especially the release, with light weight bows. It's rather ridiculous to refer to this in a derogatory manner. But it is useful, to get such statements as an indicator of the poster's experience and the value of their expressed opinions.

It helps us ignore those who deserve it.


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## frankjd

what does it take to most efficiently, consistently and accurately reach out to 70 or 90 meters? is there such a thing as too much holding bow weight? 

for "world class elite" fita/oly males, the current take on that is in the 50# range, some much more and some a tad less. assuming there are *no issues with a current holding weight*, there is a physiological and psychological threshold to be wary of if dropping down in holding weight for long periods of "training", which will actually "detrain". with 21st century risers, limbs, strings and arrows, if i hold normally at 45#, there is a lesser weight number that i would never want to go below, perhaps that might be no more than 20% of 45# = 35#, and only for brief periods of time. and, i would want to spend some amount of weight training conditioning at above 45#. this is all simple common sense, and understanding *why* one needs to practice at a lowered holding bow weight. 

i suspect that most amateurs are holding between 35# and 45# as their norm. if your norm is 40#, that lowered holding weight number will be something just above the 30# mark. be aware that as the holding weight diminishes, so does efficiency, consistency and accuracy - and the entire "feel" of the bow will not be the same as your normal "kit". there is also a point where the holding weight is detrimental to the release, and the muscle memory. this is personal. if you normally hold at 35#, going much below 28# - say, to 25# or less - could greatly alter the feel of the string as well as your muscle conditioning and memory training. 

if you have the conditioning and stamina to easily handle your current bow holding weight, what are the circumstances and benefits that would dictate training at a lowered holding weight? target panic?


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## Bean Burrito

frankjd said:


> what does it take to most efficiently, consistently and accurately reach out to 70 or 90 meters? is there such a thing as too much holding bow weight?
> 
> for "world class elite" fita/oly males, the current take on that is in the 50# range, some much more and some a tad less. assuming there are *no issues with a current holding weight*, there is a physiological and psychological threshold to be wary of if dropping down in holding weight for long periods of "training", which will actually "detrain". with 21st century risers, limbs, strings and arrows, if i hold normally at 45#, there is a lesser weight number that i would never want to go below, perhaps that might be no more than 20% of 45# = 35#, and only for brief periods of time. and, i would want to spend some amount of weight training conditioning at above 45#. this is all simple common sense, and understanding *why* one needs to practice at a lowered holding bow weight.
> 
> i suspect that most amateurs are holding between 35# and 45# as their norm. if your norm is 40#, that lowered holding weight number will be something just above the 30# mark. be aware that as the holding weight diminishes, so does efficiency, consistency and accuracy - and the entire "feel" of the bow will not be the same as your normal "kit". there is also a point where the holding weight is detrimental to the release, and the muscle memory. this is personal. if you normally hold at 35#, going much below 28# - say, to 25# or less - could greatly alter the feel of the string as well as your muscle conditioning and memory training.
> 
> if you have the conditioning and stamina to easily handle your current bow holding weight, what are the circumstances and benefits that would dictate training at a lowered holding weight? target panic?


I don't think you know what you're talking about.

Are you any of these:
-High performance coach
-Human biologist
-Sports scientist
-High level shooter
-Or similar


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## m013690

frankjd said:


> there is also a point where the holding weight is detrimental to the release, and the muscle memory.


Not if you have GOOD form and release. That's the whole point. If your relase and form are good, solid and correct, you will be able to shoot the lower weight just as accurately. The breakdown in accuracy will ocurr with lower weights only if you've become dependent upon the high draw weight to get a clean release or solid follow-through.

Again, just because



frankjd said:


> there is a lesser weight number that i would never want to go below


doesn't mean that's correct. I learned long ago that just because someone vehemently asserts something and backs it up with "it's just common sense" and "Well, I for one would never..." doesn't make it true, correct, accurate or any more authoritative.


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## chrstphr

wont make me any friends, but actually what Frankjd is saying is true for the most part. His only offense is he is making it derogatory to train any other way, ie with low poundage, which is not correct in itself. There are many many ways to train, some giving better results than others. 


Chris


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## Vittorio

frankjd said:


> *intentionally dropping down in bow holding weight below your well used "norm" is detrimental to overall performance and shooting accuracy on too many levels.*
> 
> the only sane, logical, valid reason for going down in bow holding weight is due to inury/rehab/health .....
> 
> OR, yer overbowed, yer "out of shape", ya bit off way more than you can currently chew and swallow. over the course of nearly 5 decades, i've seen this time and time again with amateurs and even "elite fita/oly pros". who hasn't visited this scenario? it surely has happend to moi. shaking and tremors at full draw that don't "settle down" = overbowed for a variety reasons. fix it fast before it ruins good form.
> 
> the act of physically holding and mastering a particular load of weight via the human body requires *load training*.
> 
> you don't train for yer current holding weight by stepping down, you train with yer current weight and/or you *slightly* step up in holding weight. this is basic weight conditioning 101 for strength and endurance, nothing new. hard/easy. the easy is yer current weight, the hard is perhaps 3# or so more. you can condition with yer current bow by overdrawing, but NOT aiming - this is purely an exercise and has nothing to do with shooting a bow, yer bow becomes just a weight training device. try it a few times a day, increase the reps. you will get lots stronger inside of a few weeks (else you have a physical issue). same deal with using bicycle inner tube exercises, just pre-weigh to make sure ya know just what yer pulling (not too much!). and/or seek professional training assistance. save those weenie weight limbs should you unfortunately have an injury.
> 
> sorry, ymmnv.


Totally agree.

In addition to the fact that you have to "load" to keep a certain level of poundage, I have also to add that in archery shooting a lighter bow, if not in the range of the tuning poundages (+-0.5#) means to handle a totally different bow in terms of stabilizers and mass weight distribution, but also in terms of tab thickness and therefore distribution of load on fingers. So, basically if you don't change the tab, 5# less (for instance, from 47# down to 42#) mens by definition a much worse release and a worse hand position, as the tab will react much differently on your fingers. 

Presently Michele is back shooting after one month off, and has changed bow to another one he want to test. Poundage, not for his choice, is 2# less then his usual one. He is facing troubles in release, not because of the one month off , but because of the reduced poundage. To fix it he will need heavier limbs or change tab thickness... Decision after some more testing...

Poundage should be the one you want to shoot in competition. You can manage it by the number of arrows you shoot daily. In low form, after some time off, small number, then increase to the average one. If you want to master your poundage better, just use in training (not continuously) a slightly heavier bow, let say 1 to 2 # more. Michele's second bow is 1# more than usual one, Mauro Nespoli's second bow is 2# more (yes, he is at 60#...)


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## >--gt-->

Well then, one wonders how Darrell Pace managed his customary annual ten pound swings from indoor to outdoor and back...


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## limbwalker

Interesting turn this thread has taken...

gt, not only Darrell, but so many archers will swing from upper 40's to lower 40's going from outdoors to indoors, as you well know.

This year, I shot my PB indoor scores with only 43# on the fingers in late February, then gradually worked up to 48# between then and the Oly. trials in April. Last Sept/Oct. at the 1st leg of the trials, I was shooting just 45.5#. Moving around in weight for experienced, fit archers really isn't that big of a deal unless you just let it be.

Sometimes, I think we tend to overthink things.

John


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## unclejane

D'oh! I just wish I could do more than my current 20# lol. 
OTOH, my experience is that interval training tends to be a better way of increasing performance than a gradual increase. In fact, I still have my old W&W FromA 32# mediums leftover from the robbery 2 years ago (they only got the bow with the other limbs, not my spare set). I've been thinking about making a string for them and shooting an end or two off them to see if the shoulder will permit it..... 
If so, I could do this regularly as interval training to try to build up....

I definitely agree that a light holding weight doesn't help your release much. Mine is pretty rough at only 20# lol, but getting better....

LS


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## Vittorio

Usually, top level archers use indoor season to increase strenght, tha means gimnansium, weigh lifting and fit training, more and moere if they need to increase poundage. Surely no one wil decrese it in thee days, as there is no time in a year were you can recover from a 5 pound reduction, and in any case winter (indoor) season is the only one were you may manage a poundage increase without influencing your outdoor season results (of course). 
It is at least 20 years I don't know any top level archer that intentionally drops poundage if not for injuries or technical decision. It was a quite common habit in the 70's and 80's, I agree. Those archers had 2 to 3 top level tournamnts to shopot outdoor and ma be one indoor every year, and world competitivenss was much much less. Today top level season never end, with may be less than one month of break and not at the same time for all in the world. No way to manage a real drop in poundage and a recover and then being able to face international competitions at same level during the year, as top level archers are asked to do. Olympic games early August, then World Field champs in August, (and Italian field and Italian target champs in September) , world cup final end September (not for all), European Clubs Cup final at the same time, then Berlin and Singapore in December, Nimes and LV in January and February, Arizona Cup in March and in April you are already in the new year World cup. Archers try to survive to this rythm of competions, but surely they are not dropping poundage in the middle of two of them, even if they skip one or more. Simply, there is NO time for this. No time for enough training, no time to rest but for the days of travel and acclimatization to different time zones. No time at all to drop in poundage and then recover.


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## >--gt-->

Vittorio, Oh, Jin-hyek has made four four pound weight changes- up and down- in the past three years that I have been supplying him with equipment. The last had him reduce weight by two pounds a few weeks before London.

The results speak for themselves.


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## Ray knight

You guys must be mis-reading my warm up routine. I use the light bow only about 10-20 shots just to get muscles moving (to wake up) and get blood flowing. Then i grab my normal rig and shoot. Its no different than grabbing a training band. I can pull 20# with my pinky and hold it all day. Thats not the point. I can see shooting 36# and training with 28-30# could be a problem. With only 20# it takes more focus to hold on a target, and you can really look at your form and build up your focus level and concentration without using any stamina or strength. Its great to wake up, fire a dozen or so with light limbs then go fire hundreds of shots with your standard weight as usual. I "train" with my normal shooting weight and bow. I only warm up with light limbs before training. I tried a week with and a week without this and i always shoot better after a warm up with the light bow. It really does help!! If i were shooting 20# all week only and inly shot my 36# limbs in competition, yeah that would cause problems but thats bot even remotely close to how i train. Say 12-20 arrows with 20# until i feel awake and focused, then 150-300 arrows with my standard weight. Thats pretty much how i train. It works very well for me. I do the same with compounds. I start a warm up with a 40-50# bow then shoot 60-70#.


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## limbwalker

Ray, I see nothing wrong with using a light bow to warm up. As you say - same as a training band, which most would think nothing of, and many already use.

Honestly, I shoot bows from 40# up to 62# and back, on the same day, barebow, full Olympic, hunting, etc. 

It's all a matter of what you get used to.

John


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## frankjd

Vittorio said:


> Totally agree.
> 
> In addition to the fact that you have to "load" to keep a certain level of poundage, I have also to add that in archery shooting a lighter bow, if not in the range of the tuning poundages (+-0.5#) means to handle a totally different bow in terms of stabilizers and mass weight distribution, but also in terms of tab thickness and therefore distribution of load on fingers. So, basically if you don't change the tab, 5# less (for instance, from 47# down to 42#) mens by definition a much worse release and a worse hand position, as the tab will react much differently on your fingers.
> 
> Presently Michele is back shooting after one month off, and has changed bow to another one he want to test. Poundage, not for his choice, is 2# less then his usual one. He is facing troubles in release, not because of the one month off , but because of the reduced poundage. To fix it he will need heavier limbs or change tab thickness... Decision after some more testing...
> 
> Poundage should be the one you want to shoot in competition. You can manage it by the number of arrows you shoot daily. In low form, after some time off, small number, then increase to the average one. If you want to master your poundage better, just use in training (not continuously) a slightly heavier bow, let say 1 to 2 # more. Michele's second bow is 1# more than usual one, Mauro Nespoli's second bow is 2# more (yes, he is at 60#...)


grazie, vittorio - vedo possiamo essere entrambi della vecchia scuola, i modi in cui i più giovani non capiscono. grazie.


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## Vittorio

George, you are saying exactly what I was. He has changed poundage for a while in search of the right tuning, specifically because he has changed bow and had to find the right new compromise, then trained with 2 pounds more then desired just up to the Olympics and finally dropped two pound just before Games to profit of the heavier training done before. 
This is what normally top level archers do. Then of course you can't know what sort of physical training he has done in the middle of the changes, nor what sort of other bow he was shooting during it. 
Nothing to do with dropping four or 5 pounds in winter and then increasing again going outdoor......

P.S:
last year Michele tested for a while the RX bow. He had to go up more than 4 pounds to shoot same arrows he was shooting with his current bow, and 4 pounds were not enough to get arrows tuning. I suppose he had to go through similar cycle as OH has done if he insisted in the idea to definitly change bow, including a final drop in arrow spine and in poundage, too.


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## jhcc93

limbwalker said:


> ...Unless of course Oh was shooting them, and you're comfortable with a Korean on the home page instead of an American...
> John


John, well Hoyt looks confortable by putting Oh on the home page

Www.Hoyt.com 4th image


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## AdAstraAirow

Vittorio, 

I sent you a PM.

Mark


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## lksseven

Vittorio,

I'm curious what model (make, model) of limbs Michele was using with the Formula RX at the time he was testing/experimenting with it, and found it to be a slow bow.


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## limbwalker

jhcc93 said:


> John, well Hoyt looks confortable by putting Oh on the home page
> 
> Www.Hoyt.com 4th image


Well, I guess so then. 

Love the quote "Hoyt shooters dominate in London..."

Really? 

Maybe I don't understand the definition of "dominate" ha, ha.

(and for those too dense to "get it" - I'm making fun of the marketing, not the bow or the archers - k  )


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## limbwalker

Looks like about 4 W&W, 1 MK Korea, 1 or 2 Samick risers and one Hoyt there...

Yea, pretty "dominant" I'd say... ha, ha.


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## jhcc93

John, I think it is 2 W&W 2 samick 1 mk korea and over there 1 hoyt hahaha


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## naveedgt

Left to right:

Choi Hyeon Ju: 
Riser: Samick Ultra
Limbs: Samick Masters Max

Ki Bo Bae:
Riser: Hoyt GMX
Limbs: W&W Inno EX Prime

Lee Sung Jin:
Riser: Samick Ultra
Limbs: Mk Korea Vera

Kim Bubmin:
Riser: W&W Inno CXT
Limbs: W&W Inno EX Prime

Oh Jin Hyek:
Riser: Hoyt HPX
Limbs: Hoyt F7

Im Dong Hyun:
Riser: MK Korea MKX-10
Limbs: W&W Inno EX Prime


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## >--gt-->

It is nice to have your products figure in both individual Gold Medals.


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## unclejane

Go Win&Win limbs! That's one of the reasons I switched to Win&Win was their limbs, I always loved them. Even my cheapie SF Axioms are great.... Now I prefer their risers also now that they've come out with the carbon ones.

LS


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## limbwalker

>--gt--> said:


> It is nice to have your products figure in both individual Gold Medals.


Indeed. Pass my congrat's along to Doug.


----------

