# How's my form and draw length look?



## aread (Dec 25, 2009)

I can't see much from the video from the back. A front side and overhead video will help.

From what I can see, you have pretty good form overall. Definitely something you can build on.

Two things I notice:
You follow through is really weak and tentative. To do it like that, you have to anticipate the shot which is a bad thing. It will let you down in pressure situations. Any anticipation of the shot can lead to really bad things.

Your bow shoulder is pretty high. A down shoulder is steadier.

Both of these are often indicators that the bow's draw length is too long. But since you recently reduced the DL, it may just be a carry over.

Additional video will help us analyze a little better.

Hope this helps,
Allen


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## Ta2guru13 (Dec 16, 2011)

Well hopefully it is just "carry over" because when I bought my this target bow, it was my first and I knew very little. I'm on the shortest draw length the bow offers @ 27". I used to shoot at 28" up until about a week ago. Muscles are struggling to get used to the new position but anchor feels better. I'll get a new video uploaded this evening and see what we can critique. If I'm still too long on my draw length, do I have any options other than getting a new bow?


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## aread (Dec 25, 2009)

Possibly. If you are a string builder, you may be able to increase the length of the string and cables. This has the effect of reducing the brace height which decreases the draw length. I was able to reduce the DL of a Sceptor Nitrous X by almost 3/4" by this method. The downside is that I ended up with string slap. Unfortunately, it probably won't have as much effect on this bow as it did on the Sceptor due to the more parallel limbs.

You can over rotate the cam a bit. You lose some speed, but speed isn't a big deal with target bows except 3D. Even then, fit to the archer is much more important.

You may be able to build up the grip. I think that bow was meant to shoot off the riser with no grip. You may be able to gain a tiny bit with a few wraps of tape. Not exactly the elegant solution.

But work on getting your bow shoulder down. That may take care of the problem.

Allen


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## Ta2guru13 (Dec 16, 2011)

ok. well buying a new bow wouldn't break my heart :wink: something a little more tunable than a binary system would be an improvement, IMO. But on another note, how do I get my bow shoulder down? any exercises or drills? I need some pointers with that one cause I thought I did have my shoulder down.


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## aread (Dec 25, 2009)

Stand naturally with your arms and shoulders relaxed, your head balanced over the center of your body mass. Without moving your shoulders raise your bow arm. That is usually the best position for your shoulder. You might also use your video camera to see what you are doing. 

Go to ArcheryTV on youtube and compare your shoulder position with some of the best in the world. 

Also, I notice that you are in Indiana. One of the best archery coaches in the world is just one state away in Illinois. Terry Wunderle 217-482-3670 A little time with him will improve your form more than anything we can do for you here.

Allen


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## Ta2guru13 (Dec 16, 2011)

Thank you for the name drop. I actually have family in Illinois and would love for a coach to actually watch me shoot and help me get better in tune with my bow and my bow better in tune! I just filmed another video from the front side and I corrected the leaning back issue. And since I fixed that it actually looks like my draw length is a tad short?! I'll get the video posted as soon as I can. My home computer took a poo so I might have to wait until morning to upload it when I get to my bosses house.


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## Ta2guru13 (Dec 16, 2011)

ok. So here is the new video that I made last night. I tried to accomplish two things... get standing straight with no leaning back and a surprise release. Pretty sure I fixed the standing upright part but I'm still working on the surprise release. Shot 2 was an actual surprise... I remember it well. Let me know what you think. http://youtu.be/n-Iz-rkSYVM


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## aread (Dec 25, 2009)

Again you are doing a lot right. But you still have the high bow shoulder and weak follow through. 

Your tentative, weak shot will work well in practice. But when you get into competition and the pressure builds, it will let you down. You want a dynamic tension with your bow hand/arm pushing the bow to the target. The push is more mental than physical, but you want the pressure of your hand on the bow to be directed at the X. And you want the pressure of your release hand to be exactly in line with your anchor, the arrow and the X. You look pretty good on alignment, but an overhead shot is a good idea. 

Your release hand should explode backwards much more than I'm seeing in the video. 

Unfortunately, the bow's DL looks a little long for you to be able to build the dynamic tension and still keep alignment. Maybe you can twist up your string a little. The DL is close enough that small adjustments can make a big difference.

Hope this helps,
Allen


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## Ta2guru13 (Dec 16, 2011)

Ok well I have something to work on. I also have a positive draw stop on my bow...should I just go ahead and give it a bump towards the limb so it stops me sooner?


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## Ta2guru13 (Dec 16, 2011)

Just shot a few arrows. Starting to get a lot more comfortable with everything and my groups are starting to show it. But here's my next question; I have read somewhere here in AT about pin movement on the target. Stare at the target not the pin, this I know, but I forget what the pin movement tells you. I have either a rock solid pin for 3-5 seconds and then it's gets very quick moving and jerky. Other times it's just very jerky...on, off, on, off...and this is why I think I have such an issue with good follow through because I'm partially timing it or waiting for the steadiness and as soon as I get steady I fire. What does this pin movement mean? Too long dl? Too short? Or do I just need to start tweaking my draw length little by little until it turns into a smooth floating action?


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## redrivergar (Aug 7, 2010)

I'm watching this thread to learn with you. Hope you don't mind.


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## Ta2guru13 (Dec 16, 2011)

Redrivergar- of course not... That's the point of this sight as far as I'm concerned. 

For anyone that's still giving their input and/or going to respond to my previous posts... I just put a new string and cables on my bow. Got everything set and tuned. When I picked up my threads my string builder sold me a tru ball ht medium 3 finger back tension release. I figured using this would help me with my follow through seeing as how I really can't anticipate the shot anymore. I practiced with it for a few min standing 5 feet in front of my target. I felt surprisingly comfortable using it. Hopefully this has helped me with some of my follow through issues. I am going to load a video on to YouTube here in a min of the morning after I got the release. Let me know what you think. Thanks guys


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## Ta2guru13 (Dec 16, 2011)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-PRQ-7DB2w&feature=youtube_gdata_player


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## aread (Dec 25, 2009)

That looks a whole lot better than your first video.

The DL on your bow may still be a little long. It's real close, but you can fine tune it later. 

You are doing much better on your follow through. You're still anticipating it a little, so it's something you should work on.

How does it feel to you? Are you any more accurate or consistent?

Allen


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## Moebow (Jul 8, 2010)

Again, I agree with Allen. I would add this for your consideration. Many folks that are starting out with a BT release want to place their hand with the back of the hand vertical (back of the hand flat) on their face. This will often cause the hand to recoil more down than to the rear. Try coming to full draw with your hand tilted at about a 30 degree angle from level with the ground (little finger a little higher than the index finger). That way, the back of your hand is on essentially the same plane that your string elbow will travel on release. You get better and more natural leverage for the BT release to actuate.

Arne


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## Ta2guru13 (Dec 16, 2011)

Yes, accuracy and consistency have gone up. I actually shot a 3d shoot Sunday and everything that I shot was perfect L/R of the 11 ring but I missed vertically due to yardage being wrong. I was actually surprised with myself. But now that I'm using a BT and I've gotten a little comfortable with it should I turn the clicker off so I have less chance of anticipating the shot?


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## Ta2guru13 (Dec 16, 2011)

To Moebow: I will try and see if I can get my release hand more parallel to the ground. I know that the back of my hand is definitely not flat to my face but I'd have to say its more like a 45 right now. I'll see what I can do and thanks for the tip


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## aread (Dec 25, 2009)

Clicker on the hinge release is a personal thing. Some feel a level of comfort knowing they are going to hear or feel the click before it goes off. One very good pro told me he hated the clicker, but two years later he loved it. But I didn't see any difference in his scores.

Try it both ways and see which gives you the best results. You have to spend some time shooting each way to give it a good evaluation. A couple of weeks isn't enough.

On your release hand, it should be just a link in the chain. If you have to use muscle to turn it one way or the other, it will be less effective for you. Find your anchor and relax everything except your finger "hooks". Use whatever it natural for the bone structure of your hand and arm. Good advise from Moebow on the best angle of leverage on execution.

Allen


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