# New stuff from WW



## wiatrog (Dec 27, 2014)

http://onlinearcheryequipment.co.uk/coming-soon-win--win-wiawis-ns-foam-limbs-3836-p.asp

£1,000.00!!!


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## theminoritydude (Feb 11, 2013)

Oh Yeah~......


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## bobnikon (Jun 10, 2012)

So...

Apparently flaxpreg is out and graphene is in.


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## rookcaca (Oct 10, 2002)

*2017 Win Win*

Very nice, I miss my inno cxt. This would make a nice replacement.


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## GoldArcher403 (Jun 25, 2014)

What do all these acronyms even mean?!


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## theminoritydude (Feb 11, 2013)

These guys will be here sometime early December, I'll ask them more about the new stuff. Any questions for them? I'll compile a list and ask them.


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## ShooterPhill (Feb 23, 2015)

Anything extraordinary about that new tiller bolt?


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## Mr. Roboto (Jul 13, 2012)

theminoritydude said:


> These guys will be here sometime early December, I'll ask them more about the new stuff. Any questions for them? I'll compile a list and ask them.


yeah, ask them for draw force curves, and some arrow velocities with different weight arrows and making sure the report the deflex measurements, limb mass, and string mass during their tests.


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## GoldArcher403 (Jun 25, 2014)

I was hoping for some new accessories. but maybe those come later? Also interested in knowing how the new aluminum Wiawis bow shoots (I nicknamed it the metal waffle)


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## toj (Aug 22, 2012)

wiatrog said:


> http://onlinearcheryequipment.co.uk/coming-soon-win--win-wiawis-ns-foam-limbs-3836-p.asp
> 
> £1,000.00!!!


That can't possibly be right can it?


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## Montalaar (Jan 26, 2008)

toj said:


> That can't possibly be right can it?


Given that the current top notch WW limbs are already at 700 USD i wouldn'tbe too surprised if they at least hit at 800 in stores. Considering that the first time someone could produce a single layer of true Graphene was in 2004 I could even imagine 1000 to be the actual price. It is a highly promising molecule, but i cannot believe that WW actually puts several layers of real Graphene in the core. Though, if they do, this limb should have phenomenal characteristics!



rjbishop said:


> I was hoping for some new accessories. but maybe those come later? Also interested in knowing how the new aluminum Wiawis bow shoots (I nicknamed it the metal waffle)


Haha, immediately thought about the waffle-tec mathews back then...


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## zal (May 1, 2007)

Considering Graphene costs bloody arm and leg in any form, I wonder how much actual "Graphene" there is in those limbs.

I haven't even heard about it's use in carbon laminates, I thought it was simply an alternative for Lithium-Ion batteries?


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## Seattlepop (Dec 8, 2003)

Mr. Roboto said:


> yeah, ask them for draw force curves, and some arrow velocities with different weight arrows and making sure the report the deflex measurements, limb mass, and string mass during their tests.


Maybe they can hint around it without mentioning Earl.


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## Innosint (Sep 4, 2016)

So... is the Nano TFT the new top of the line to dethrone Nano Max? 

or is it an upgrade of RCX-100


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

Why would they waste the graphene in the core of all places?


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## Montalaar (Jan 26, 2008)

zal said:


> Considering Graphene costs bloody arm and leg in any form, I wonder how much actual "Graphene" there is in those limbs.
> 
> I haven't even heard about it's use in carbon laminates, I thought it was simply an alternative for Lithium-Ion batteries?


There doesn't need to be that much of Graphene in there at all. But then again it is bloody expensive and i don't know of any way to industrially produce it in sufficient quantities so far.. A single layer of Graphene is something like 100 times as strong as steel. So yeah, Graphene could make limbs eventually ultra thin and stable, also allowing for the craziest shapes. If it is actually in there.



grantmac said:


> Why would they waste the graphene in the core of all places?


I wonder about that, too. At least if you take the point some other limb maker made on facebook, where he stated that the core is of no value at all. Then again using 2 layers of graphene would make the core ultralight and ultra-thin, basically eliminating it.


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## erickatgta (Apr 22, 2013)

am I the only think TFT just like kaya ka3?


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

Anything placed on the neutral axis isn't going to do
do much.


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## theminoritydude (Feb 11, 2013)

Neutral plane. Which is a theoretical plane with zero thickness.


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## Taufiq (Oct 17, 2016)

Learning something new here, so if neutral plane doesn't do much, why have core in the first place?


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

Taufiq said:


> Learning something new here, so if neutral plane doesn't do much, why have core in the first place?


Because you have to space the power laminates apart somehow.


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## Taufiq (Oct 17, 2016)

grantmac said:


> Because you have to space the power laminates apart somehow.


Can't you just make it hollow?


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

If you can figure out how to do that then you'd probably lead an evolution in bow design.


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## Montalaar (Jan 26, 2008)

Taufiq said:


> Can't you just make it hollow?


Yeah, you could. But how do you put the two outer layers together then? Thats why Graphene is, in theory, a great material at this point. Because one layer of Graphene is so thin that it is barely visible and weighs like nothing it is the next to ideal separator. At least if you want to make it as light and thin as possible but at the same time halfway rigid.

Then again, as pointed out before, it could serve an even greater purpose as outer layers, making the limb only a mm (let's say about 1/25") thick. But there are still no ways to really build and process larger Graphene layers, so that might be possible in some 20 years...


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## zal (May 1, 2007)

Montalaar said:


> But there are still no ways to really build and process larger Graphene layers, so that might be possible in some 20 years...


I'm not so sure, having watched Hybtonite development a friend of mine was involved in (Easton uses it for N-fused arrows, and it was developed in the University I'm working in). It took only couple of years to get to commercial level. But, that is fairly simple material as far as production goes for.

It might make more sense if Graphene is used as a powder mixed with "conventional" foam. Benefits might not quite be there, but at least limbs won't cost $250 an INCH.


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## Seattlepop (Dec 8, 2003)

I understand the quest for light limbs and speed, etc., but don't you lose some stability moving weight toward the riser? Seems at some point the lines on the graph would converge with negative results.


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## Mr. Roboto (Jul 13, 2012)

Playing the game with advanced materials and marketing hype, doesn't mean it is any better from its ability to convert stored energy in the limbs to kinetic energy in the arrow.

So what is more important, energy conversion, of what cute material the limbs are made out of?

Have W&W publish real performance data with their limbs.


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## Montalaar (Jan 26, 2008)

zal said:


> I'm not so sure, having watched Hybtonite development a friend of mine was involved in (Easton uses it for N-fused arrows, and it was developed in the University I'm working in). It took only couple of years to get to commercial level. But, that is fairly simple material as far as production goes for.
> 
> It might make more sense if Graphene is used as a powder mixed with "conventional" foam. Benefits might not quite be there, but at least limbs won't cost $250 an INCH.


Exactly, but isn't that the point of using Graphene in the first place? Being able to produce a super thin material-layer with the endurance/stiffness of a diamond and basically no weight. Thing is it can only work if it is a perfectly even molecule.. Would be super cool if there are ways to produce them at commercial levels. I could think of so many things to use it for.. :shade:



Mr. Roboto said:


> So what is more important, energy conversion, of what cute material the limbs are made out of?


They are hardly using any Graphene, so I see this speculation as a hope for future limbs, which could actually benefit from that new super strong material, which can change the way energy is stored and how limbs are made. I don't think the new limbs are really so much better, actually.


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## ShooterPhill (Feb 23, 2015)

Mr. Roboto said:


> Have W&W publish real performance data with their limbs.


To be fair, i don't think ANY major limb manufacturer publishes real performance data.


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## ksarcher (May 22, 2002)

Hy-Jacked ???


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## John_K (Oct 30, 2011)

I attended a seminar given by Mr Park last night. Ku Bonchan was also there, to give a shooting demonstration and answer some questions (with some GB archers as well).

On the graphene core, Mr Park didn't give much away about the exact make up of the material. He did, however, comment that it combined the benefits of wood and foam cores.

Specifically, he said that wood core limbs absorbed shock better, but that foam core limbs were more consistent (I got the impression this wasn't just when shooting in different conditions, but also the material itself was more consistent).

So when he found that the graphene core absorbed shock as well as wood, but without the material inconsistency issues, he decided to switch to only the new core for his new limbs.

I hope this is of interest


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## Bender (Dec 6, 2006)

What grantmac said is effectively true. The core is a "spacer." A transition layer or zone from tension to compression. It neither stores nor returns energy. So the best we can hope for from a core is thin, light, and highly resistant to being crushed. I'm sure graphene fills those requirements admirably. 

The "real" question though is will it actually provide a shootable difference. For most of us, probably not. So I doubt if I would spend the $ on them. But given a little more disposable income? Heck yeah! Sign me up! Just because it would be cool and I would love to find out for myself.


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## GoldArcher403 (Jun 25, 2014)

Any pics yet? Dying to see the new stuff in detail.


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## theminoritydude (Feb 11, 2013)

In a couple of days. Within the week.


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## Hoogie2004 (Jun 7, 2014)

Some pictures of the new riser (by Merlin Archery)
I believe this are still the old limbs, and not the new ones yet...


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## MartinOttosson (May 31, 2011)

It looks like they leave the bulky track if this is a replacement for the Max series. The Inno Max and Nano Max have both been very bulky carbon risers. This is definately a step towards slimmer designs and less built-in stability. But it might be a parallell product line and not a replacement.


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## Innosint (Sep 4, 2016)

Nice to seem them in someone's hand...

HOpefully the price doesn't break the bank though.


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## Hoogie2004 (Jun 7, 2014)

MartinOttosson said:


> It looks like they leave the bulky track if this is a replacement for the Max series. The Inno Max and Nano Max have both been very bulky carbon risers. This is definately a step towards slimmer designs and less built-in stability. But it might be a parallell product line and not a replacement.


About less built-in stability... This new riser features an inner H-beam in the riser around the sight-window, making it stiffer and more torsion resistant. (according to the marketing ofcourse). So I think that would count as more stability?


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## GoldArcher403 (Jun 25, 2014)

I think he meant built in stability as in riser mass weight rather than torsional stability. The Inno series are chunky risers with some heft to them.


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## Hoogie2004 (Jun 7, 2014)

rjbishop said:


> I think he meant built in stability as in riser mass weight rather than torsional stability. The Inno series are chunky risers with some heft to them.


Ah, ofcourse, never mind, it was early morning here


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## theminoritydude (Feb 11, 2013)

ShooterPhill said:


> Anything extraordinary about that new tiller bolt?
> 
> View attachment 5055465


It's made of aluminum, and is a new design for aesthetics. By the way, WW catalogue has included stainless steel bolts for weight adjustment.


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## theminoritydude (Feb 11, 2013)

rjbishop said:


> I was hoping for some new accessories. but maybe those come later? Also interested in knowing how the new aluminum Wiawis bow shoots (I nicknamed it the metal waffle)


The "waffle" is actually two different aligned cuts, meshed together left and right at the window, calculated to reduce rider twist.


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## theminoritydude (Feb 11, 2013)

Innosint said:


> So... is the Nano TFT the new top of the line to dethrone Nano Max?
> 
> or is it an upgrade of RCX-100


It's an upgrade when compared to the Nano Max.


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## theminoritydude (Feb 11, 2013)

rjbishop said:


> Any pics yet? Dying to see the new stuff in detail.


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## rookcaca (Oct 10, 2002)

Beautiful, thanks for the pics.


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## Borderbows (Apr 4, 2009)

Really thin limbs are a bad idea

.


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## theminoritydude (Feb 11, 2013)

You saw!


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## theminoritydude (Feb 11, 2013)




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## airwolfipsc (Apr 2, 2008)

When will it be avail in US retailers? How much are riser and limbs?


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## toxoph (Mar 24, 2005)

Looks really nice and I can see people buying it to be on the cutting edge of technology, me included!

however, it reminds me of an old saying "Fishing lures are designed to catch fishermen!"


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## sizzle (Oct 15, 2016)

I asked Lancaster Archery when they will get the new Win & Win Nano TFT stuff in and they said mid-February.


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## Innosint (Sep 4, 2016)

man, that's three months away. 

Not sure if I can wait that long for the new bow XD


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## zal (May 1, 2007)

Usually you can pick up bits and pieces after Berlin Open, which was last weekend, as it is a big demo event for W&W. Not sure about this year as Berlin was held at the same time as Bangkok world cup (which is just mad), and no-one I know went there.

When I asked an European distributor, they said most stuff should come in around January. Europe usually gets Korean stuff a bit earlier than US as it's bigger market for them.


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## julle (Mar 1, 2009)

There was no w&w stand at the Berlin open, I think for the first time in forever. W&W I also not sponsoring the event anymore.


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## martinkartin (Aug 6, 2012)

W&W's new NS Limbs and TFT riser are on Lancaster now and prices are similar to what was offered with the previous Wiawis stuff. Now I'm tempted to try out a the new carbon riser. Chang Hyejin's Instagram post shows her using a white one already.


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## airwolfipsc (Apr 2, 2008)

Only thing holding me back is the limb tuning pro system and vertitune. More important is limb adjustment.


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## airwolfipsc (Apr 2, 2008)

Only thing holding me back is the limb tuning pro system and vertitune. More important is limb adjustment! Just realign my limbs after 7months..it is so useful.


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## wiatrog (Dec 27, 2014)

Ooh! New Fivics limbs too. Thanks for posting...


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## KurlyArrow (Jan 17, 2016)

Does anyone have pictures of the Nano TFT in blue?


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## ksarcher (May 22, 2002)

View attachment 5428129


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## ryan b. (Sep 1, 2005)

Great review and setup/rough tune


https://www.facebook.com/kaminskijake/videos/1113037432155261/

15k views btw. Looks like Jake is killing it for advertising Win&Win.


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## lunect (Feb 25, 2012)

wow.. it looks great, though their pricing is also soaring..


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## theminoritydude (Feb 11, 2013)

zal said:


> I'm not so sure, having watched Hybtonite development a friend of mine was involved in (Easton uses it for N-fused arrows, and it was developed in the University I'm working in). It took only couple of years to get to commercial level. But, that is fairly simple material as far as production goes for.
> 
> It might make more sense if Graphene is used as a powder mixed with "conventional" foam. Benefits might not quite be there, but at least limbs won't cost $250 an INCH.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZoWfzB6iTAY


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## theminoritydude (Feb 11, 2013)




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