# Is speed ever an issue for field archery.



## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

Other words are there any advantages to speed in field.

What would most say the average speeds are on most field bows?


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## montigre (Oct 13, 2008)

Entering into my 4th season now, I'd have to say from my personal experience, that speed factors very little in NFAA field archery games. This is because all of the distances are known and most of the field ranges are set in relatively protected areas--away from gusty winds. Also, speed bows are a bit more agressive, and you have to have the stamina to shoot 130+ arrows in a round (including practice). If shooting an unmarked FITA field, I can see where speed may be a little more of a factor, but I have not yet shot that game. 

I'm getting around a calculated 265-270 fps at 40 pounds shooting 270ish grain arrows. No problems reaching the 80 yard mark and I can shoot all day long without feeling like I just finished a marathon. 

Others with more experience can probalby give you more detail. :wink:


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## Spoon13 (Feb 20, 2007)

With todays bows most Field shooters are real close to the same speeds as 3D shooters. The average speed is probably in the 270s, just guessing. 

In 3D, the reason people want speed is when they misjudge a target. 2-3 yards off with a faster bow means you might only get an 8 instead of a 10. A slower bow may drop you into the 5 rather than the 8. The trend in 3D is to shoot over-spined arrows at high DW. Over a short distance and only 20 targets you can get away with it. Field archers tend to take more time in choosing arrows more closely spined to the setup they have and prefer more point weight with less DW than 3D folks do. This setup is going to be more forgiving over longer distances and more shots. 

In Field the arrow drops behind the pin, no matter where it is since the distance is known. You don't pick up the advantage that a 3D shooter does on an unknown distance. 

However, speed can help in Field. If you shoot flat targets, there really isn't much to be lost or gained. But if you are shooting lots of uphill/downhill shots, there can be some advantage. By bringing the sight marks closer together, it makes cuts a little more forgiving. A faster bow may ( and I reiterate MAY) be less affected by wind. In theory if the arrow is in flight less time it will be affected less by any environmental factors. But realistically, the difference is so minute that most of us couldn't possibly see it. But the theory is sound. There are lots of other factors that can make a difference in POI that can negate speed.

If you set your sight correctly and put the dot where it belongs, speed isn't going to make a difference.


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## ccwilder3 (Sep 13, 2003)

Speed can make quite a bit of difference for the pin classes. Especially in the Hunter and Animal rounds.


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## TNMAN (Oct 6, 2009)

Want to hear something sad? My pb scores were shot with 1814's at snail speed. 

More speed not making much difference for this senior freestyler. More talent would help.


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## erdman41 (May 6, 2009)

TNMAN said:


> Want to hear something sad? My pb scores were shot with 1814's at snail speed.
> 
> More speed not making much difference for this senior freestyler. More talent would help.


Pb was at 230 fps lol 

Sent from my DROID3


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## Spoon13 (Feb 20, 2007)

ccwilder3 said:


> Speed can make quite a bit of difference for the pin classes. Especially in the Hunter and Animal rounds.


Pins?? What are those??

Sorry, I haven't shot pins in so long I didn't think about them in my post but you are correct sir. In the pins classes, speed will make a difference.


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## rock monkey (Dec 28, 2002)

LEARNING your equipment and how it reacts and accommodates how you adjust to the shot presentations will always trump the belief that speed fixes everything.

knowing how your bow will shoot after getting caught in the rain is just one of the many things one needs to learn about their bow.

but, all is lost on those that think newer&faster is better.


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

All of my lifetime personal best were shot with a target bow that shot 1714's at a whopping 222 fps. This includes highs of 557 field and hunter rounds on a hilly course. I also used the same exact setup indoors...and shot all of my 60X NFAA 300 rounds with that setup, with those tiny knitting needle 1714's.

I don't think that "most" of the field shooters are shooting 270 fps plus, but I'd well imagine most are definitely at or above 245 fps. 

Having to shoot the 112 scoring shots plus warmups pretty much takes higher poundages out of the matrix...unless someone is really super strong and super tough, haha. 

field14 (Tom D.)


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## montigre (Oct 13, 2008)

Oops, you're right...I didn't think of pins either when I answered.... Sorry, guys. :embara:


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## rpdjr45 (Jul 28, 2007)

There is a rule in FITA Field that the maximum poundage for a compound bow be 60#. Most Olympic recurve shooters are between 40 and 50. Trad or bare bow between 30 and 45, a few musclemen with 50s. In order to get those speeds, I assume that the arrows must be very small, yet stiff as a rod. Right? (I've held a compound bow in my hands at least six times, so I don't know.) I think the shortness and the stiffness of the compound limbs have much to do with the speed,too. Yes?


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## psargeant (Aug 1, 2004)

Speed for field archery is really probably a 3rd or 4th level advantage the way I see it. If you get it great, if you don't oh well...

Doesn't really help much unless you're setting your sight wrong, or aren't very good at figuring out the cuts and are too stubborn (or can't because of class rules) to use something to do it for you.

Way more important to have a bow that fits, that you can comfortably shoot for 150ish arrows in a day, have good spine match in your arrows, and have plenty of weight in the point.

Problem is most of these things work against speed, but are way more important to shooting good scores. So I end up building a set up that works well for me, and let the speed fall where it may. I don't ever really think about it.

Most of my really good scores were shot with 1814s in the round wheel days at a blazing 210-220ish speed...


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

This is a slippery slope.... 

Does speed really matter? No not really...it's marked yardage. 

But does speed help...YES

Of course some of us have shot their best scores with super slow bows....but that had more to do with the times as far as gear goes. It also has to do with the shooter shooting his best then. It had nothing to do with the speed of the bow. 

A setup that was shooting say 230 fps back in the day...if you took the equivalent today it would probably be in the 270-280 fps range today. Equipment is different. 

I shot the past 2-3 years in the 280-289 fps range depending on the arrow I was shooting...I wasn't trying to get that speed. That is what my PROPERLY spined arrows on 58-60 lbs...which is the weight I like to shoot for everything from indoors, to field, to 3D, to hunting....from my bow with an IBO of 315-320 fps gave me. :wink:

The bow I shot prior to that shot the same arrow in the 275-280 fps range. The bow I am setting up now will fall in between the two some place. 

Do I find a benefit shooting 275 fps plus...even shooting FS. YES. Will I shoot under that speed....Not for very long...that's one of the reasons I stopped shooting the Martins I was shooting. Yes it is marked...but not all targets are marked correctly...not everyone get's the cut right (no F14 not all of us use gadgets :wink...and even though it is marked...not all of us are robots or a Hooter Shooter like Jesse and hold in the center of the dot on every shot :chortle:

When your shot breaks and your dot is on the bottom edge of the spot (don't BS we all know it happens)...my shot will have a much better chance of catching the 5 with my arrow flying 275+ then an arrow traveling at 250...just check OT2 if you don't think so. :wink:

There is a target on a range I shoot that is 65 yds...I almost ALWAYS shoot that thing low :noidea: It's flat as an NBA basketball court....well last year I shot a group low in the dot...2 busted nocks and all 4 arrows touching in the bottom of the spot. LOOOOOW bottom...it didn't make sense as those 4 shots all broke and I was probably holding better on those 4 shots then I ever remember holding on that target. Well after playing with OT2 I figured that target has to be 66-66.5 yds....I got a rangefinder that I TRUST...used it on the entire range...guess what that target showed? 66.5 yds.... If your bow was shooting a "slow speed"...if your not someone that isn't afraid to move your sight you would have dropped a few points shooting 65 yds on that target.

Cuts are also less critical....

Don't get me wrong I am not saying go out and get a speed bow...or shoot light arrows just to gain speed...or shoot cams you can't handle. But if my bow with a 7.5" plus bh, my 530 Nanos that spine perfect and have an FOC of 13-14% get me over 275-280 fps at my short dl....I will take it all day long over a setup that gives me 250 fps. :thumb:


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## [email protected] (Feb 23, 2004)

> guess what that target showed? 66.5 yds....


LOL...the "home field advantage target". There's a "50 perfectly level" on a range in SD that if you don't shoot it for 51 you can drop out of the X/5. Everyone that's shot the range knows it's 51. ;-)


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

[email protected] said:


> LOL...the "home field advantage target". There's a "50 perfectly level" on a range in SD that if you don't shoot it for 51 you can drop out of the X/5. Everyone that's shot the range knows it's 51. ;-)


LOL there is a target on a range about an hour south of me that is the same way...they have ranged it with every rangefinder made...even the construction ones...taped it off...It's 50 yds. But if you don't shoot it for 51.5-52 yds your not catching the dot :chortle:


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

This thread sure died quick. 

On another note....I can't wait to see what the Green Goblin spits arrows out at. It is about 5-10 fps slower then the Katera on paper....I'm using a heavier then "standard" 8190 string...and I am going back to Nanos which are about 15 grains heavier then what I shot the past two season. BUT I finally got screws to replace the bad ones in my speed balls. So that should offset some of the slower bow difference. I will be surprised if I don't get 280 fps. 


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## Moparmatty (Jun 23, 2003)

I'm shooting 300 fps. I like it.


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## RatherBArchery (Oct 31, 2006)

Have you picked up a bow lately Matty????


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## Moparmatty (Jun 23, 2003)

I drew one back the other night a couple times.


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

Moparmatty said:


> I drew one back the other night a couple times.


But did you shoot it?


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## Moparmatty (Jun 23, 2003)

Negative!


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## dschonbrun (Nov 14, 2012)

Speed is a small advantage in an unmarked competition as it can help when you misjudge yardage. That's about it for target events. 

People often focus on the bow speed as a differentiator when purchasing... My coach said it best... Faster bows = faster out of the 10 ring. It's not about the speed... Getting a bow with a mass weight and draw weight you can maintain comfortably for 10 seconds at full draw is so much more important.


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

dschonbrun said:


> Speed is a small advantage in an unmarked competition as it can help when you misjudge yardage. That's about it for target events.
> 
> People often focus on the bow speed as a differentiator when purchasing... My coach said it best... Faster bows = faster out of the 10 ring. It's not about the speed... Getting a bow with a mass weight and draw weight you can maintain comfortably for 10 seconds at full draw is so much more important.


To a degree that is true...but to a degree it's also not true. Or at least there are more advantages as I stated in a previous post. 

Not all targets unfortunately are marked correctly...not everyone is as good with cuts...there are times when you accidentally miss set your sight by a yd or more....and let's face it not all of us are machines and have their shots break when holding dead center. So in a sense all of these situations can be helped by a faster setup. Just like a faster setup will help in an unmarked yardage situation. 

Now I don't know anyone that is a true field shooter that shoots over 290fps with a good setup other then Matty. But he is not the norm in the sense that he is a bigger guy and his dl is rather long. So his setup is the same as far as lbs, and arrow as he shot with his slower Apex. But with a Contender Elite he gets 300 fps instead of 270-280 fps. 

My setup the past three years was the exact same bow I hunt with. Same lbs...same sight just no lens...and a different stab. My arrows for hunting are ACCs that weigh 370 grains... My field arrows weighed 315-330 depending in which shaft I was shooting, Nano XRs or Medallion Pros. My setup was more forgiving on target with the faster arrows then with the ACCs. There were times that I set the bow up with ACCs at the end of the season and shot field. The slower arrow missed more on less then perfect shots because they were slower. when I have a shot break on the bottom edge of the dot...lets be honest here it happens. With my Nanos and Medallons flying 280-289 fps they catch more dots then that slower 270fps arrow. It's just a fact. 

Nobody is saying shoot a speed bow...or setup a super light arrow with light points for a few fps. But if your shooting a true target bow that gets good speed with a properly set up arrow for shooting longer yardages like in field or FITA that setup is going to be more forgiving then the same bow shooting a heavier slow arrow that is setup well in the situations I stated above. 

Your coaches statements are correct....if shooting a hot setup just to get speed. But properly setup a VE or CE or whatever with a good spine and FOC and that bow shooting 280fps isn't going to get you out of the 10 quicker. I bet you good money that Reo, Cousins, Braden and the other top shooters around the world aren't shooting slow setups for FITA. 

Heck even indoors there is a big difference in how wide your margin of error is. Last year I shot XJammer 27s indoors. That arrow weighed in the 400-450 grain range (I don't remember exactly) but it was much more forgiving up and down then an arrow in the 550-700 grain range. Don't believe me...take a person shooting a 2613 or 2712 with 300 grains up front and ask them to set their site for 18yds and see where they hit. Then do the same with someone shooting XJs with a 200 grain point...someone is still going to be in the dot someone won't. :wink: granted your not going to set your sight wrong BUT you will have shots break not holding in the desired location :wink: 

Take it outdoors and have someone shoot a 65 yd target for 63.5-64 yds....the faster setup will still catch that dot. The bow shooting under 270 has no chance...miss a cut by a yard or two same thing. I can still catch the top of the dot. Your out the top with a slower setup. 






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## TNMAN (Oct 6, 2009)

dschonbrun said:


> Speed is a small advantage in an unmarked competition as it can help when you misjudge yardage. That's about it for target events.
> 
> People often focus on the bow speed as a differentiator when purchasing... My coach said it best... Faster bows = faster out of the 10 ring. It's not about the speed... Getting a bow with a mass weight and draw weight you can maintain comfortably for 10 seconds at full draw is so much more important.


Agree somewhat, but want to point out that you will probably never be selected as poster boy for slow arrows if shooting the Supra Max you posted about 2 threads down.


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

TNMAN said:


> Agree somewhat, but want to point out that you will probably never be selected as poster boy for slow arrows if shooting the Supra Max you posted about 2 threads down.


:chortle: exactly....don't buy a 32" 6" bh bow....but if you can get good speed from a 37-40"+ bow....with a good arrow :thumb:


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## pennysdad (Sep 26, 2004)

Live and learn! Don't see many of the top shooters lobbing them in!


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## pennysdad (Sep 26, 2004)

I personally think that the advantages, of some speed, as in 270+, far outway, the disadvantages! Hornet hit on most of them, improperly marked targets, cuts, hangtime/wind drift, etc,etc. Not to mention, the sooner the arrow leaves the string, the less likely you are to screw it up! Yes, I agree that if your bow is sighted in, and all axis's are set correctly, and all the targets are marked correctly, and there is little, or no wind, and the ground is perfectly flat, and you execute all, or most of your shots, perfectly, and your shot breaks clean, center x, every, or most every time, speed is not an issue! But unless you are Jesse, you will not be achieving this! It's kinda like Hornets example, of the Indoor setups, if you are lobbing them in, and your shots break under the x, you are probably gonna get a 4, if you break high, you are probably gonna get a 4. Faster setup, opens this margin for error, up somewhat. Just look at pin shooters pins, faster is closer/tighter, slower is wider. Most pin shooters nowadays, when they are centered on a 30yd. dot, have their 20yd. pin touching the dot at the top, and their 40yd. pin touching at the Bot. Now slow that way down and see what happens, you better be on it!


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## rsw (May 22, 2002)

For the top shooters, speed is not significant although most are in the 270 or a little higher range. Scores from the 70s-80s are pretty similar to today's scores for the top archers - 555 up - while shooting in the 200-220 fps range. In 1982, I was shooting the fastest bow on the course (Mid-Atlantic sectional) at 224 fps as most of us tried out a new gadget - a chronograph. I shot an average score of 549 for several years then with some mid-50s. I have serious doubts that increased speed would improve the scores for top shooters unless it is very windy where speed is a definite edge.


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

Angle adjusting range finders alliwed?

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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

Garceau said:


> Angle adjusting range finders alliwed?
> 
> Sent from my Motorola Electrify using Tapatalk 2


Yes they are.


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## DarrinM (May 21, 2002)

Speed kills.........


X's! 

Shoot as fast a setup as you can accurately and comfortably Control! The biggest advance in average shooter improvement was the availability of high quality carbon arrows. Their effect was more speed! The greatest shooters have shot great scoressince the beginning. Accurate speed for the average shooters closedthe gap...


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

Holy cow....Hornet comes out of the frozen state and the thaw wakes up the Gnome also  

Good to see you buddy.


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

DarrinM said:


> Speed kills.........
> 
> 
> X's!
> ...


I'll second this! What a speed demon may well need to give him/her a quick fix, is the new generation "Phase Inhibitor", don't you agree Darrin? Of course, I heard that due to popular demand, "Phase Inhibitor" is on back-order.

field14 (Tom D.)


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## brtesite (May 24, 2002)

DarrinM said:


> Speed kills.........
> 
> 
> X's!
> ...


only if you use the new & improved phase inhibitor


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## dschonbrun (Nov 14, 2012)

If the distances are known, and your sights are setup for the correct distance, then speed plays a minimal role. The mass of the arrow and it's frontal area dictate how winds will affect it. Heavier arrows with a small diameter and tiny vanes are affected least by crosswinds.


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

dschonbrun said:


> If the distances are known, and your sights are setup for the correct distance, then speed plays a minimal role. The mass of the arrow and it's frontal area dictate how winds will affect it. Heavier arrows with a small diameter and tiny vanes are affected least by crosswinds.


Nobody is saying that it is a HUGE factor....but some of us have said things that you may want to read again.:wink:


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## dschonbrun (Nov 14, 2012)

TNMAN, my bow in 1993 was a 44" ATA Martin Scepter, which shot a whopping 220 FPS with 375-400 grain arrows. I'm choosing a different type of bow for today, but technology has come a long way since then.


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## dschonbrun (Nov 14, 2012)

And if you shoot 3-D, with unknown distances, then speed plays a big role in scoring.


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## rock monkey (Dec 28, 2002)

dschonbrun said:


> And if you shoot 3-D, with unknown distances, then speed plays a big role in scoring.



....and if a frog had wings.......

unknown, yes, that is true.....to a point. $2500 in gear wont do someone with $2 of talent any good.

and back to the field round and speed question.......

if it works for you, great.

to say speed is the answer to ALL accuracy and score questions is like putting a band-aid on a bullet wound.


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

dschonbrun said:


> And if you shoot 3-D, with unknown distances, then speed plays a big role in scoring.


You haven't shot in 15 years.....so how on earth are you even thinking about arguing so passionately against anything anyone is posting that has been shooting with the current gear for the past 15 years? Let alone actually doing it. :noidea:

Things have been laid out pretty simple explaining how speed can help and WHY it does....but your still throwing out old school cliches or things your "coach" spewed out......

Hope you plan on shooting 450+ grain arrow outside....otherwise your going to be one of those guys missing fast also....because that Supra you have on order is far from slow. In fact is 10-15 fps faster then the bow I shoot that puts me in the 280 fps range with my field shafts...and it's still about 5-10 fps then the bow I shot the last three years that had those same arrows flying at almost 290 fps....

and even with my heavier 370 grain arrows the bows I shot field with still were in the 275-280 fps range......


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## dschonbrun (Nov 14, 2012)

Brown Hornet, I agree with you on this... if you're inconsistent with your shooting, the speed of the bow makes no difference whatsoever. But that was not the original question.

As for my passion or 15 years away from shooting... last time I checked, the laws of physics haven't changed in the last 15 years, but perhaps you can enlighten us?

If you're off by 5 yds on your estimated DTT, the drop/rise of the arrow from your aiming point (provided you execute the shot well) is less on a fast bow than a slow one. That's a fact.


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

You simply don't get it.....

Like they used to say...Reading is fundamental....but as we also teach comprehension is key....

The original question posted was "Is speed ever an issue for field? Other words are there any advantages to speed in field.

What would most say the average speeds are on most field bows?"

The answer is NO...speed isn't an issue. But YES there are advantages to speed in field. Which is what myself and others have stated...and EXPLAINED why. It has also been stated that the avg speed is probably around 270 or so....not slow by any means.

The laws of physics haven't changed.....but your way of thinking and your comments has yet to prove what I have said or Jay or anyone else has said explaining how shooting above 270 fps can help you is WRONG. 

You can't do it.....but speed is a fast way out of the 10. There are no tens in field by the way. :wink:


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## dschonbrun (Nov 14, 2012)

Brown Hornet, I think we've interpreted the original question differently. Best to agree to disagree here.


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## Spoon13 (Feb 20, 2007)

dschonbrun said:


> Brown Hornet, I agree with you on this... if you're inconsistent with your shooting, the speed of the bow makes no difference whatsoever. But that was not the original question.
> 
> As for my passion or 15 years away from shooting... last time I checked, the laws of physics haven't changed in the last 15 years, but perhaps you can enlighten us?
> 
> If you're off by 5 yds on your estimated DTT, the drop/rise of the arrow from your aiming point (provided you execute the shot well) is less on a fast bow than a slow one. That's a fact.


Another little fact that seems to be escaping you is that this is the FIELD Forum.

If you are estimating yardages that could be a problem. Next time you are on the course look to your left or right at the stake and there should be a sign or perhaps just look at the stake itself. Somewhere there is a notice informing all shooters as to the target distance. 

Speed can help a shooter when they are figuring a cut on a target. On standard run-of-the-mill flat targets speed is no help to a freestyle shooter. The arrow is gonna fall behind the pin if you set your stuff up right to start with. Now Bowhunter folks gain an advantage from speed by closing the pin gaps. But those are really the only places speed helps in Field Archery.

And just another little nugget, speed isn't the end-all be-all in 3D either. The best year I ever had shooting 3D, my setup was spitting out arrows at 272. Not really slow but not near as fast as a lot of setups on the course. At 272 I could aim at the top of the 12 and misjudge the target by 1.5-2 yards and still catch the bottom of it inside 40 yards. You would have to misjudge a target by 5-6 yards to shoot your way out of a 10 ring in 3D. If you put a good number on it,set your sight correctly, and break a good shot, you will score well. Speed is a band-aid that covers up other inadequacies.

Most Field shooters build a bow that is comfortable to shoot. Then spine match the arrows to that setup making sure to have an FOC of 11-15%. Speed falls where it may because in Field the emphasis is on breaking good shots repeatedly. If you can do that and know your bow, you will score well no matter what the speed is.


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## DarrinM (May 21, 2002)

Brown Hornet said:


> Holy cow....Hornet comes out of the frozen state and the thaw wakes up the Gnome also
> 
> Good to see you buddy.


Keep your eyes open.... Never know where or when I will pop up with bow or club in hand!


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## DarrinM (May 21, 2002)

field14 said:


> I'll second this! What a speed demon may well need to give him/her a quick fix, is the new generation "Phase Inhibitor", don't you agree Darrin? Of course, I heard that due to popular demand, "Phase Inhibitor" is on back-order.
> 
> field14 (Tom D.)


I posted about my original formula PI.... As old as it was it still worked to get me a 300 out the gate. Missed a couple too many x's though.


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## DarrinM (May 21, 2002)

If Brucie does not outlaw it it will be the bomb!


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## rsw (May 22, 2002)

Arrow velocity is a "plus" for a field archer, but certainly not very significant in the end. Two places where a *significant* increase in velocity is useful: mismarked target and in the wind. 200 fps is just as good as 300 fps everything being perfect. A well shot arrow will hit where it is aimed regardless of the speed.


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