# Minimum strand count for 50 lb bow?



## dwagoner (Sep 27, 2007)

452 is alot more than just 35lb per strand. while i dont see alot of advantage going down to 16 you could do 18, thats the lowest i would go for 46lb NOW thats my opinion if you never go past the 46, as you know some have used 20 on 60lb bows and some even on a 70.


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## jim p (Oct 29, 2003)

Has anyone done any testing to see how much speed can be gained by using low strand counts? I guess that I need to take a piece of 452x and strip it of wax and then weight it. That would give me an idea of how much speed I might pick up just based on weight. I would guess that this speed number would be lower than the actual speed increase because there should also be less friction in the string. 

While I am wanting to know the minimum strand count for a string, I also would like to know the minimum strand count for the cables.

I am going to go and look at BCY's web site. They probably list their recommendations.


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## nickel shooter5 (Dec 26, 2009)

I know a very good shooter that uses a 16 strand 452x string on a 60# destroyer and shoots it lights out. seems to hold up.


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## aread (Dec 25, 2009)

I don't agree with your math on the factor of safety. You would be still be wrong if only static loads were considered because at the loops, a 16 strand string is only 8 strands. However, loads on bow strings and cables are not static. The dynamic factor of safety is less than half of the 11 that you mentioned, then since the load is carried by 8 strands, it's cut in half again. 

Also, fibers are weaker when they have to make short radius turns such as where the loops fit over the studs on the cams. So you are down to all the load being carried by the equivalent of 4 strands.

It's also a little more complicated because you have to figure how the loads are applied. This brings in arrow weight and cam timing. If the cams are perfectly timed, the dynamic load is applied to the string over a shorter period of time than if the cams are a little off. Since you want additional speed, you probably want the cams as perfectly timed as possible. This puts more stress on the string. You are going for speed, so you probably want lighter arrows. This also reduces the time period over which the load is applied.

Obviously, 16 strands can work, but the risk is much higher than you are figuring and the factor of safety is much lower. 

With 20 to 24 strands, a broken strand or two isn't a big deal in the short run, but as you reduce strand count, minor damage can result in a catastrophe.

I wouldn't build a 16 strand 452X string for someone. The liability would bother me.

One option that you might consider is to use 452X in natural color. It doesn't have the wax coating so is a bit lighter than the other colors and you can keep your strand count at safer levels.

Do what you want, but understand the risks,

Allen


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## Rootbeer LX (Jan 2, 2010)

You could go with a material like 8125. I shoot 60# with 28" draw using a 18 strand shooting string,18 strand control cable and a 20 strand buss and I get 293fps.


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## Andy. (Jan 12, 2011)

My 60# omen and 70# evo came with 20 strands of 452x. Seemed to hold up well but uses larger serving than I like. That said I was able to duplicate and slightly improve on speeds by building my own at 24 strands of 452x. 

Maximize your tune and live with a more stable string is my opinion.


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## JF from VA (Dec 5, 2002)

If you are trying to get 10-15 fps more speed, then I don't think dropping your strand count down to 16 is going to buy you too much. I also shoot low weight (40-45#) and my limited testing with lowering strand count has shown not that great of a gain in speed. I think the disadvantages outweigh other options. As the previous suggestions were made, I think your best bet is to go with lighter arrows and possibly a string made out of 8125 or something like it. The string will be more stable and the nock fit will be better. My string is presently 20 strands of 452X. I will not go below 20 strands of 452X.


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## bowtecee (Nov 3, 2003)

Well the discussion is interesting since you bring up some good points of the amount of strands that is affected by stress on the end loops. Give any thought to the 5 or 6 strands that are on the cables in a yoke condition? 452X has a tensile strength of about 70 lbs per BCY. 8125 about 100 lbs. Lancaster had in the past posted on their products tesile strengths far exceeding the real values. All being said, a 18 strand string of 452X should be more than ample for upto 50 lbs. Anything over 50 I would consider 20 minimum and 22 max. If you are building with 8125, you can do 16 with ease. 16 would be the limit as this will definitely creep on you and 18 would be better. The new 8125G is actually as small if not smaller than the 452X. If you are looking for speed, 8125 is by far and will always be the fastest string out there, hands down. Just need to totally get all the creep worked out prior to building or you will have weather conditions that will affect it during competition or hunting (cold or heat).


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## 60X (Nov 8, 2002)

I'm in the same boat as you with a shorter draw and ony pulling around 48lbs. I run 20 strands of 452x or 16 strands of 8125. I have 20 strands of SX2 on a couple of my bows as well and it's doing quite well in the speed department.


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## jim p (Oct 29, 2003)

I think that I will weigh a foot of the 452x and then decide if reducing the strand count will reduce the weight of the string by any appreciable amount. Then I can decide if going down in strand count will be very helpful. If I remember correctly you pick up about 1 fps for each 3 grains in reduction or arrow weight. So maybe this will correlate to string weight reduction.


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## jim p (Oct 29, 2003)

Well 452x seems to weigh 1 grain per foot. My string is 60" long so I will reduce the string weight by 5 grains for each strand that I can eliminate. My factory string is a 22 strand string. So going with 18 strands will eliminate 20 grains and I bet that a very short center serving will get rid of a few more grains. So I just might hit the 280fps mark by just building another string. I will have to make sure that I get those speed nocks right on my string or all could be for naught.


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## bowtecee (Nov 3, 2003)

Eliminate the speed nicks and build an 18 strand stretched 8125 string. Smooth as silk and fast as lightning. You will easily gain 10-13 FPS.


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## bowtecee (Nov 3, 2003)

Use the new 8125g.


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## jim p (Oct 29, 2003)

I have heard that 8125 will give more speed. I guess that the 8125G is very much like the old 8125 with gore fiber added.

Do you know why 8125 is faster than 8190? I have read that some string manufacturers are only getting 1 to 2 fps more from 8190 than they were getting from 452x.


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## bawls (Jan 29, 2011)

I've shot 16 strand d10 strings and astro strings. The amount of speed picked up dropping from 18-16 is minimal though. You stand to pick up more speed playing with cam rotation and speed nocking it. Just my opinion though.


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## bowtecee (Nov 3, 2003)

There are a couple factors here. Most of our. Us timers have seen a 3-7 FPS and on rare occasions 10FPS Speed increase. I think a lot has to do on the preparation we do to the string. Much of the gained speed usually eliminates the speed nocks from what our customers tell us. Nocks add weight that you have to accelerate with the string and arrow. Physics tells me the more weight added the more energy to put it into motion.


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## Hoytalpha35 (Apr 5, 2011)

bowtecee said:


> There are a couple factors here. Most of our. Us timers have seen a 3-7 FPS and on rare occasions 10FPS Speed increase. I think a lot has to do on the preparation we do to the string. Much of the gained speed usually eliminates the speed nocks from what our customers tell us. Nocks add weight that you have to accelerate with the string and arrow. Physics tells me the more weight added the more energy to put it into motion.


Nocks in the correct location make a difference in certain applications. Yes they do add weight and in the wrong location slow the bow down. Just a matter of reducing the string oscillation and putting that energy into to arrow flight. I put them on my alphamax 35 just recently and from when I started to the fastest location I gained 8-9 fps. This is after a hoyt tech told me they arent worth the hassle. 

I may have misunderstood, but are you trying to say the strings your building reduce the need or affect of speed nocks?


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## bowtecee (Nov 3, 2003)

In most cases like I said our strings have been developed to increase speed output naturally without the use of speed nocks with acceptable speed gains. Varying from 3-12 FPS. Adding speed nocks would potentially add more speed but if you don't want to fuss with them and are gaining the desired affects, then why bother unless you really "Feel the need for Speed". That is why we have the AfterBurner" name. Lightning fast and built with quality. No garbage.


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