# Smoothest Shooting Recurve



## firefighter4634 (Feb 15, 2013)

This may open a can of worms, but here is my question. For those that are long time recurve shooters what is the smoothest shooting bow you have shot?
A friend of mine is looking to buy a new recurve and was wanting me to ask. Thanks guys and gals. If it matters my friend is about 6ft 3 and has a 30 inch draw. Also for a taller person with a long draw length would a 64 inch bow shoot better, maybe have less staking?


----------



## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

ff - 

Count the number of replies, add 6 and that will the number of personal favorites you'll get.

Here's mine:

Since I'll assume you're not talking about a FITA rig for target work, then he's looking at an ILF bow of at least 64" and 66" might be better. The answer lies in the adjustable limb reflex/deflex. With that he can tweak the bow to stave off stacking at his draw length. Finger pinch, while somewhat subjective, will always be there, but at least you can smooth out the draw. 

As far as ILF limbs, IMHO, the general rule for smoothness is Hoyt, Samick, WW/SF, and performance is the the exact opposite. 

Viper1 out.


----------



## Paddlepro (Apr 13, 2013)

Black Widow for sure. I have shot many, but none compares.


----------



## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

Depends on what you mean by smooth. Also depends on what your budget is.

-Grant


----------



## Hank D Thoreau (Dec 9, 2008)

Border HEX6 by a long shot, even over HEX5. You can get Border HEX limbs on several platforms, including traditional bows of the length you are mentioning. And I have a 32 inch draw length.


----------



## shortshaft (Jan 3, 2015)

My Martin is great saber modle


----------



## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

Viper1 said:


> ff -
> 
> Count the number of replies, add 6 and that will the number of personal favorites you'll get.
> 
> ...


I agree 

My high end Hoyt's are smooth but My Samicks are quicker 

Blacky loves his Win Wins 

In a different way Borders are very smooth


----------



## Chris1ny (Oct 23, 2006)

Bear Super Kodiak


----------



## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

Guys - 

Once again, thanks for proving my point.

Viper1 out.


----------



## bldtrailer (Feb 2, 2010)

smooth is in the eye of the beholder- Dale dye- Blacktail- silvertip-Boarder it's all up to the shooter what they like, that's why we have so many great bowyers and never have we had so many wonderful choices out there!!! I have several of the listed bows and even more on my bucket list SO many bows so little time(and $)


----------



## guyver (Jan 3, 2012)

Define smooth...


----------



## centershot (Sep 13, 2002)

Smoothest bow I have is my Hoyt Excel Riser (23") with SF Axiom Plus 34# Long limbs. Makes for a 68" bow and would be a nice rig for someone with a 30" draw. The whole setup can be had for ~$300 if the price tag matters. For a guy with a 30" draw, a bow in the 64"+ range (longer the better) will help with stacking.


----------



## rickstix (Nov 11, 2009)

firefighter4634 said:


> This may open a can of worms…


No worries…”opening a can of worms” can open a can of worms…

Once you get out to 30” and beyond, certain things can come into play that people with shorter draw lengths are just not familiar with/exposed to. Bows that have no adjustability features have fixed draw force curves…and for many the “sweet spot” (where the bow is not stacking) will fall at or around 28”. The longer that “spot” extends beyond 28” the smoother the bow should be for a longer draw…to a point. There is simply nothing subjective about a draw force curve and, because I draw over 30”, I’ve been taking special interest in published curves for many years.

That tid bit aside…generally, bows that become my daily shooters are ones that I’ve picked up and drawn to my draw length. Two years ago, at Denton Hill, I tried a few dozen bows and out of them there were only 2 that I rated as smooth…and I bought them both. As much as I was looking for a 64” recurve (generally the area of least disappointment) only one of the 2 was 64”…the other was 62” but pulled the same.

Anyhow, as much as I wouldn’t have a problem with giving the names of the makers, to me that’s less relevant, and less helpful, if I were to advise someone in a direction that’s similar as my own. Again, speaking of non-adjustable bows, it has been my experience that seeking out 64” recurves with bamboo cores yields the highest percentage of bows that I’d rate as smooth (...both of the aforementioned bows had bamboo cores).

Don’t know if that helps…but…all I got. Good Luck to "your friend" and his search. Enjoy, Rick.


----------



## Matt_Potter (Apr 13, 2010)

At 32 inches of draw the Border Hex series - the Hex-6 were the gold standard the HEx-7 takes it to a whole new level.

Matt


----------



## BarneySlayer (Feb 28, 2009)

Viper1 said:


> Guys -
> 
> Once again, thanks for proving my point.
> 
> Viper1 out.


I'd try to prove it some more, but I don't think I've shot enough stuff to qualify 

I would add, to jump onto Grant's qualification, it depends on what you mean by smooth. Some people consider a longbow the ultimate in smooth. So long as the limbs are long enough, it goes from zero to full draw in something very close to a straight line. Some people consider smooth to be primarily not stacking, that is, not getting more pounds per inch of draw length near full draw. In that scenario, it's difficult to compete with something in the 'Super Recurve', or static limb category, or horse bows, or things with similar geometry, that significantly increase mechanical advantage by the geometry of the limb to counter the increasing resistance of the limb material itself and the pulling angle of the limb on the string.

Subjectively, too, we adapt to what we do. A bow that feels stacky compared to another may feel perfectly smooth after some time with it, or vice versa. So long as you're not shooting something entirely inappropriate, like standard recurve short limbs on a short riser with a 30"+ draw, you can get used to it, and it will become what feels 'right'.

If he's just starting, I'd say get a recommendation on a moderately priced longish ILF riser, 21" or so for a hunting-oriented setup, longer possibly for more regular upright and level shooting, and long or extra long limbs, learn to dial it to taste, and run with it. By the time he figures it out, he'll have a much more useful idea of what he wants in the next bow that will be the 'last bow ever.'


----------



## Borderbows (Apr 4, 2009)

for the science types out there, we have two basic thoughts on a definition of stack.

one is where the DFC goes from convex to concaved. which with a recurve is where the string lifts off the recurve for the final time. 
this ignores the scale of the drop in the smoothest point, and also ignores the severity of the climb out the other side.

for example. both bows are 40lbs
smoothest point is 24"
bow A might drop to 1.4lbs per inch at 24"
bow B might drop to 2lbs per inch at 24"
and then you have from 28-29"
Bow A might climb at 3lbs per inch
Bow B might gain 3.2lbs per inch.

this data is ignored by a single value such as the simple smoothest point.

the other method.
40lbs over 28" with an 8" BH would be 2lbs per inch.
so ANY point where the DFC has a 2lbs per inch or more gain after preload bulge has gone.

so this could be quantified by stack happens at 27"
but again this causes problems with bows that "stack" after the usable draw length is exceeded.

for example. a 40lbs bow that pulls 0.5lbs from 29-30" max draw 29" its never going to get to stack until the DFC reaches 35" to it fails to quantify this bow...

both have problems...


one is a simple where the bow pulls its lowest pounds per inch.

the other is when the bow gains more than its average climb...

stack is multi directional in that sense.... but its also down to your personal experiences... shoot a really stacky bow and anything smooth. shoot a really smooth bow and everything stacks....


----------



## overbo (Feb 7, 2015)

Habu recurve is the smoothest at the shot bow I've shot. Have owned and shot some that are a bit smoother drawing but non as smooth after the moment of release.


----------



## Hank D Thoreau (Dec 9, 2008)

Viper1 said:


> Guys -
> 
> Once again, thanks for proving my point.
> 
> Viper1 out.


Yea, well at least I have a working quantitative definition that I am using, whether folks agree with it or not. I use the first derivative curve of the DFC. Smoothest pulls the least pounds per inch at the back end of the draw where expansion occurs. From my definition, HEX6 are the smoothest I have ever measured, out of about 50 different bows. I need to get my hands on some HEX7 to see how they test.


----------



## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

Steve - 

What you're doing is cool, but it's kinda like putting an engine on a dyno.
You'll get hard, accurate numbers that may or may not mean anything on race day. 
Unfortunately, given constraints of temperature, humidity and pressure, the organism will typically do as it damn well pleases.

That was my point, counting the number of posts and adding 6, or 8 or 10... 

Funny, I always have a number of shooters who need to have the "latest and greatest". 
They typically progress the slowest and are the first to drop out - or the first to get dropped by me. 

Viper1 out.


----------



## Borderbows (Apr 4, 2009)

Viper1 said:


> Steve -
> 
> What you're doing is cool, but it's kinda like putting an engine on a dyno.
> You'll get hard, accurate numbers that may or may not mean anything on race day.
> ...


the problem with your number of posts then adding a number is that some people on the internet have an opinion based on what they have read and based on thier experience, which in some cases extends as far a 1 bow and 6 months of internet reading.
there have been a couple of teenagers that have come online and said they have the latest and greatest. and its SUPPER smooth... only six months later to have found another set of limbs that are SMOOOTHER. 
int his case, what can you make of thier first opinion...
the posted. they were counted. in your system.
so your system is does not account for the fact that some bows ARE smoother than others. yet havent been tried by all those in the poll.
(a huge flaw in forum opinion requests)

an example of this is when i passed my driving test. my first car was AMAZING. I was like a F1 driver in it. I had freedom at my feet. it was FAST....
i would have told the WORLD of the awsomness of my pride and joy.

then i tried another car. that taught me what a hunk of junk my first car was...


----------



## Hank D Thoreau (Dec 9, 2008)

Viper1 said:


> Steve -
> 
> What you're doing is cool, but it's kinda like putting an engine on a dyno.
> You'll get hard, accurate numbers that may or may not mean anything on race day.
> ...


Viper1, 

I took your original comment to mean that someone poses a question here such as: what is smoothest, what is best, etc., and you get a list of whatever people are shooting as the response. It seems everyone has the best...otherwise why would they be shooting it? There are some folks that have shot many bows who could probably provide decent qualitative assessments, but that is not what we typically see, and you have to know who these folks are when you read the responses if you are to any idea which are authoritative. Traditional archery is interesting in that there are sooooooo many folks making bows, and probably most are building some variant of the same set of basic designs. So what distinguishes one bow from another? I make my choices based on a clear understanding of my requirements. It makes purchase very easy, whether cars, houses, bicycles, or bows. My requirements have led me to bows that work well for me. Now, where technology advances have helped me, personally, is in allowing me to get the performance that I require with lighter and lighter bows. I have no need to replace anything I have today, unless I can get a bow of equal to, or better performance with a lighter draw weight, that is smooth, using my working definition, at my 32 inch draw. The lighter the bow, the better I execute, and that allows me to reduce the gap between my capability and the capability of the equipment, and we know that for a decent bow, the equipment will always be better than we are.


----------



## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

Steve - 

But that's exactly what we get as responses. 
What you are doing is going a step or two beyond that and that's cool. 

I've been dropping draw weights a bit over the years as well and I'm therefore shooting slightly slower arrows.
The funny part is, it's not affecting my shooting (scoring) in any kind of negative way, actually, quite the opposite. 
OK, it does bug my ego a bit, but I'd rather have the higher scores than the extra weight/speed - not kidding there.
And yes, that does take a little time to come to grips with. 

Viper1 out.


----------



## DDSHOOTER (Aug 22, 2005)

VIPER 1 has a very good point. This is what I did with my compound's. As they got faster, smoother, I went with lighter draw, heavier slower arrow, more stable, durable, easy to service, and best, very constant. Smooth, not so much because My body got use to that part.
Dan


----------



## Beendare (Jan 31, 2006)

I like smooth- grin..........You and I are the same height- and there are many tall guys with long draw on this forum. 

In general, the longer a bow is the smoother it will feel. Dollar for dollar- the ILF limbs are hard to beat on 'Smooth'. I'm right at 30" draw. My 62" ILF- 17" Morrison riser, WW (carbon/foam) Inno limbs is smooth for an efficient hunting and target bow that shoots a heavy arrow well. If it were a 19" riser it would feel a little smoother with a tiny bit less performance. 

Custom bows; The Black Widows are pretty smooth for a wood bow...as are some others...but from the many bows I've tried, just not quite what the good ILF limbs can do. Then on top of that the limbs with big hooks like Border take the ILF draw feel to a higher level. 

Another factor- assuming you are new to this. You can loose a little of the limbs max efficiency by going too long if say you put my WW Inno longs on a 23" riser. Sure it will feel smooth....but you are leaving some performance on the table. So depending what you are doing with the bow- longer isn't always what you want. If its just casual target shooting, its not a big deal [some performance hounds might disagree!] If you are going to hunt with a fairly heavy arrow- a long recurve might leave you wanting more performance.

I can tell you that most long ILF limbs will feel pretty good to you at 62" (17"/ longs) and 64" (19"/ longs)-smooth and still have max performance. For a hunting bow I personally wouldn't hunt with a longbow more than 66", or a recurve more than 64". If you are a straight target guy- 68,70,72" ILF will give you unbeatable smoothness...

I have some cheap $80 Sebastian Flute wood core limbs that feel pretty good....probably a good place to start as you can sell them for almost what you paid if you later upgrade.


----------



## savage 14 (Sep 19, 2010)

choices choices, there are many. again it's a personal choice and of course money. black tail blackwidow,palmer,inmop. good luck


----------



## JINKSTER (Mar 19, 2011)

The smoothest shooting recurve I've ever shot was the one that was tuned too perfection with extremely well matched arrows.

and I've owned well over a dozen of those.


----------



## rimrockhunter (Feb 19, 2015)

I have the smoothest Bow I Have ever shot....... But then its the only bow I have ever shot


----------



## EthanJM (Jun 11, 2012)

Paddlepro said:


> Black Widow for sure. I have shot many, but none compares.


I'll attest to this, my friend has an old Black Widow, the first thing I noticed about it was how smooth the draw was.


----------

