# Vertical Alignment wire



## Joe Schnur (Mar 22, 2012)

1) I prefer a ring on the lense about the size of the gold on the vegas 3 spot . Your mind always centers round things on round things easily. 

2) peep should be just large enough that one of 2 things happen slight sliver of light all the way around the scope to automatically center it or just larger than the ring I spoke of above auto centering or natural centering is what you are liking for. 

3) a. I had a scope with wires in both planes half no legality issues in open class .
3) b. You should draw above the target and come down even if it is only 2 inches high. Coming up from below enlists muscles to raise the bow to the spot and they are now engaged throughout the shot. Coming down from above allows for less muscle engagement and thus more stability. 

These are from books and personal experience . The big boys never come up to the target always drift down.

Good luck


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## aread (Dec 25, 2009)

CarbonWarrior said:


> ...1. I think the .010 pin I'm using may be causing excess movement. It's so small that, for me to get it to "appear" to sit absolutely still... I'm constantly fighting it....


Quit fighting it. That will only cause more apparent movement that will cause you to fight more and more movement etc. Without a lot of work on your form and equipment you won't get your pin to sit absolutely still. Most archers never achieve it, even the top pros. You have to learn to accept the float and trust your form. 

Of course you want to work to reduce the float, and a goal of absolutely still is OK though likely unreachable, but it's unrealistic to expect to hold it perfectly still. And it's the unrealistic expectations that lead to the more serious problems with our shooting.

On the peep - experiment and find which size peep works best for you. Most seem to like being able to see a sliver of light around the scope. Peeps are cheap enough to buy several and find what works best for you. Caution, many peeps have corners sharp enough to cut your string. Always press the bow and relax the string when working on the peep.

On the wire - if its a very fine wire, you shouldn't be able to see it if you are focusing on the target as you should be. Focus on the sight seems to be typical of archers with pistol training. In archery, it's best to focus on the target where a wire isn't as effective. However, there is no reason not to experiment with it.

Allen


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## dgmeadows (Jun 15, 2005)

Classic Industries scopes have holes for wires and I believe they have (or had) a crosshair kit available.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

A .010" pin is pretty small, but then personal preference enters. I prefer .019" and actually shot my best Indoors with a .029"

Peep size is like Joe noted, either light around the housing or the housing completely out of the sight picture. Here, a stick on circle takes the place of the housing or like me, just the pin is visible. 

Again as Joe noted, coming down is far easier than trying to go up to get on target.

Wires.... I set up one for a customer. Pain in the butt kit. Seemed it took forever to get the wires correct, but my first time also. After all the tedious work he found it wasn't as good as a straight scope/pin set up. 

There is Thread in here on float. I suggest you read it. Many replies and maybe helpful hints within. Again, coming down helps.


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## bfisher (Nov 30, 2002)

Sometimes over looked or just ignored (hard headedness) is tweaking the draw length to tighten the float. Depending on how close the bow's draw length presently is a twist here or there in the string or cables can make a big difference.


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## CarbonWarrior (Apr 12, 2014)

Thanks everyone for the advice and input. I've wondered about the wisdom of people drawing high, and then settling to the x... always bugged me, cause it seems a lot of archers who do that "Sky Draw"... and, I have NO BIGGER pet peeve in archery. Maybe loose field tips... close. LOL

As for the peep size/aperture... I'm glad I got a Superpeep, based on the recommendation of a fellow shooter. I'll experiment some more. I'd rather have a small sliver of light around the ring as well.

I have put considerable time into tweaking my draw length, and... true. The fine tuning of it DID eliminate a LOT of float issues. Presently, the float problems I DO have are probably 10% of what I used to have. DRAMATIC difference in how I used to shoot.

I may try a homemade wire kit, and just tape it on my current sight, to see if my eye and brain like the processing of it. It's not so much the visibility of a wire... as it is the presence. It's as if you can FEEL it there, even though you're looking through/around it and focusing on the target face. I totally agree with the problems associated with staring at the pin, and not the target. If I dont like the wire, or it doesnt seem to function the way my previous experience showed... I'll yank it off. 

Thanks everyone... your input is greatly appreciated


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

The NFAA stepped to address the "sky drawing" a bit some time back. Don't quote me, but I think the bow hand can't go above the forehead. I have not heard of where it has been enforced. The ASA has "must be in control of your bow," which in turn suggests disqualification.

In 3D I try to hold my pin high on the 3D target and draw, keeping my pin somewhat there and come down. For spots, I also try to hold a bit high. Taken a bit out of context is "draw while holding on target." Well, this isn't quite true, but has value as to proper draw weight, like you have to "sky draw" your draw weight is more than likely too much.


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## Joe Schnur (Mar 22, 2012)

If my post was read carefully I suggested 2 inches high certainly not qualify as a sky draw. The one thing I did draw from nts is front hand and back hand at eye level and draw level but high and come down parallel to the final anchor position drawing low will cause rotator cuff injuries.


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## Joe Schnur (Mar 22, 2012)

By the way sonny I think we are saying the same thing


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

We probably are. Still, bow hand no higher than forehead level can launch a arrow long ways...200 yards or more?


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## montigre (Oct 13, 2008)

This ruling on sky drawing was not to prohibit drawing high on or just above the target to set the shoulders, but to prevent people from doing this:

View attachment 2090070


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## dgmeadows (Jun 15, 2005)

SonnyThomas said:


> We probably are. Still, bow hand no higher than forehead level can launch a arrow long ways...200 yards or more?


No doubt. I had a release malfunction at a 3D tourney on the practice range this summer. My bow hand does not get higher than my eyes, because I am looking over my hand at my chosen spot (process carried over from recurve shooting), I only got about 1/4 to 1/3 into the draw when the release let go, the arrow cleared the top of of the raised bale frame by several feet. Due to the terrain falling away (poor choice by the host) that arrow kept going way too far for me to look for it. Thankfully, there was a cut area with dense scrub brush behind, so while finding the arrow was a lost cause, shooters could see there was no one roaming back there, at least.


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## dgmeadows (Jun 15, 2005)

montigre said:


> This ruling on sky drawing was not to prohibit drawing high on or just above the target to set the shoulders, but to prevent people from doing this:
> 
> View attachment 2090070


Holy frijoles... I don't think I have ever seen anyone over the age of 12 do that, although I have seen plenty of arrows deeply buried in range ceilings... I hope a range official put a stop to that.


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## aread (Dec 25, 2009)

montigre said:


> This ruling on sky drawing was not to prohibit drawing high on or just above the target to set the shoulders, but to prevent people from doing this:
> 
> View attachment 2090070


Draw weight a little bit too high? 




Actually that's the second worst I've ever seen for sky drawings. Here is an oldie, but goodie of the worst:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=4006316636895


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

I would suggest since drawing the bow has came up that you do a search for jesse broadwater and watch him draw his bow, he does it about the best I have ever seen.

As far as your issues with your scope and the vertical wire and .10 pin, I think most of these issues will take care of themselves with time spent on the range. If you find your self not able to see the pin because of lighting or if you don't like shooting indoor with a pin then you need to move on to getting a dot and find the size that you enjoy shooting with.

You mentioned having a speciality peep so get a aperature kit and find the size that gives you the best alignment with the scope and look at the target. Many people order a peep and a specific aperature and screw themselves out of the benefits of the speciality peep by not getting the aperature kit.


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## Joe Schnur (Mar 22, 2012)

Bow hand and draw hand should both start out at same level and stay that way parallel through out the draw if this is not possible for you you are drawing too much weight


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

Joe, just because I can draw the bow the way you suggested doesn't mean it is the best and most fluid way to do so. By slightly raising your front a few inches and letting the bow drop as you draw it creates a much more smooth draw cycle that is balanced between the front arm and back arm instead of drawing the bow with the back side only.


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## CarbonWarrior (Apr 12, 2014)

I appreciate everyones' input. I tell ya... my first foray into this particular room didnt go quite this well. But, on to the issues...
1. I do draw smooth and level, and... funny as mentioned... a buddy actually told me that I DO draw very similar to Jesse Broadwater. On a side note... he's a great guy. We've got each other on FB, and he's actually answered a few of my questions himself. Great shooter and sportsman!!
2. My draw usually puts me low because of the factor that, part of my shot sequence is to stare intently at the target before a deep inhale and draw. Since I'm staring at that particular spot, My draw follows a course where I dont allow the sight/scope/rest or anything else to obscure the target, until I get it anchored, at which time my scope is usually in alignment with my peep, and it's up to me to rise to the spot.
3. I tried the technique the other night, of floating down to the spot...and found that I'm so used to pushing up, that letting it slowly fall still seems to fall too quickly, and I'm squeezing my shots off either too early in the shot cycle, or too late. Lots of high and low hits. Still 5's, but not X's I guess it's just something I have to continue trying... to break the habit of coming up, which I do find most times gives me the illusion of more control.
4. I did notice... I think it was Joe who mentioned rotator cuff injuries. I've already got one... so, that may explain why my back shoulder does seem to hurt more after a few rounds than it used to before i injured my shoulder. 

I take everyones input with a grain of salt... I feel that it's like golf. There's "perfect" form... then there are those guys who, because of an ailment or an injury, have found other ways to win THEIR way. Ernie Els, Arnold Palmer, Vijay Singh... all champions who have an element to their game or swing that is "different" or, "not right". I'll keep working on trying to get it done right... 
THANKS EVERYONE!!!


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## Joe Schnur (Mar 22, 2012)

Thanks sonny we are saying the same thing I think I don't see anything in your post that does not agree with what I was trying to say. Both hands at the same night from the floor through the draw cycle a pre release goes in the bale. Fly stuff in the pepper again I guess. Good luck post a video of your draw cycle carbon warrior. Just park the ego we all get ragged on no matter how good we are or think we are


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