# Has anyone shot a Hoyt ION-X yet?



## >--gt--> (Jul 1, 2002)

About 35% less felt vibration after the shot is the biggest difference. I'm writing an extensive tech review article on this riser (complete with vibration analysis) for the French Federation magazine and I suppose it will be available on the Hoyt website after publication in January.

The HPX seems pretty forgiving when you consider the scores it's been used to shoot both indoors and out. I think success outweighs internet theory.


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## rookcaca (Oct 10, 2002)

I own a Hoyt HPX with F7 limbs. I have owned a Sebastien Flute and 2 Samick risers before the HPX and actually find the HPX to me more accurate for me than the Samick Masters I owned before. I is also quite a bit faster which helps me outdoors. Hope this helps.


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## kshet26 (Dec 20, 2010)

All fair points! So if the HPX and ION are the evolution of the Formula, what would be the reason for Hoyt to still sell the RX? There must be some aspect of the RX that some people prefer, is it all just preferred feel at that level of riser?


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Just as an example, if the ION takes the HPX geometry, then I'd probably be inclined to use an RX at my (32.5") draw length because of the extra deflex in the riser. 

George, I'm interested in the vibration analysis, as I've always thought the main difference in tec risers vs. traditional risers was not necessarily the amount of vibration, but rather the frequency. Perhaps its both though. 

John


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## >--gt--> (Jul 1, 2002)

kshet26 said:


> All fair points! So if the HPX and ION are the evolution of the Formula, what would be the reason for Hoyt to still sell the RX? There must be some aspect of the RX that some people prefer, is it all just preferred feel at that level of riser?


I suppose the main reason is the fact that there are some people who simply like the feel of the RX. I like it too, (and find the RX to be more to my liking aesthetically) but for me the HPX is eerily accurate if I make even a slight effort. I mean, ridiculously accurate. Stuff like consistent inside-out X's at 18M with X10's even though anyone observing might wonder if the shooter in question (me) was actually hitting the paper. (this was yesterday, with an audience). This has a remarkable effect on one's confidence.



> I've always thought the main difference in tec risers vs. traditional risers was not necessarily the amount of vibration, but rather the frequency.


Well certainly there are a range of frequencies which have a big effect on feel and feedback from the bow. A lot of the effort put into quantifying feel is in understanding these relationships. And to be sure these differ among various designs and in particular with TEC designs.

Quite a bit of Jim Easton's money has been spent on this sort of study over the years for baseball and softball bats, golf shafts, tennis gear, hockey sticks, and bows as well as many other sporting goods.


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## kshet26 (Dec 20, 2010)

John, at what draw length do you think the HPX geometry would start to become an issue? And is the issue one of stacking? I have about a 29" draw length, which isn't crazy large.


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## >--gt--> (Jul 1, 2002)

FYI I'm shooting a 27" HPX with short 42# limbs (68" bow) yielding 48 at my draw of 30.25", have been working on form and draw length has been adjusted a couple of times this past couple of weeks. With the short limbs there's a bit of "wall" at about 30 1/2.

This morning I set Greg Easton up with a 25" RX with medium limbs, no stack at his 32" draw. Formula bows don't have much of any discernable stack at reasonable draw ranges. Unless you're over 50 lbs you could probably even get away with short limbs (66" bow). Not recommended, just available if you want to push the performance.

Back on topic, Natalia Valeeva just shot a PB indoor score with the ION-X, which happens to have tied the men's indoor WR. Her score was in practice, but it does show the potential of the new bow. She did this with Dean Alberga's personal ION-X, without much in the way of tuning. It's noteworthy that Dean didn't get the bow back...


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

kshet, 

Stack is a function of not only riser geometery, but how deep the limb bolts are wound and the design and construction of the limbs. So, it's always hard to say. 

Also, what one person calls "stacky" - the next person will call smooth. For example, I'm not sure how many bows Greg Easton has shot lately, but if he's comparing F7's to F4's or F3's, then yes, I'm sure they will feel very smooth. But compared to Samick Masters, or SKY or Borders, maybe not so much. It's all relative. Every limb "stacks" at some point. 

But I'd not recommend an HPX/Ion geometry for anyone shooting more than 31". However, up to 31" it could provide a bit of an advantage for those archers over the more deflexed RX. 

I've found that I shoot a bow best when I can -just- start to feel it starting to stack as I am beginning to aim. Almost as if I'm pulling into a tiny bit of a "wall" with my recurve. It helps me find my clicker. The problem I had with Border limbs is that they were actually TOO smooth, and I felt a little lost at the clicker with them. Likewise, with an RX and F3 limbs, I was stacking at 31" - well before I was near the clicker - even with a 72" bow. I have not shot the F7's, but I am told they are considerably smoother than the F3's and F4's. And faster too. So a set of F7's on an HPX or Ion may feel very much like a set of F4's on an RX. 

John


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## archeryking (Aug 3, 2002)

Yes, I have shot the Ion X ever day since mine finally arrived on Tuesday. So, three days is not much, but if hoyt wouldn't take so long to ship, I would have had it longer. The delay from order to arrival is my biggest complaint. 

I was planning on upgarding from my Axis with masters limbs to the hpx. When I started looking I found out the 2013 announcement was only a week away. I decided to wait. I took one look at the ion-x and thought "it is an HPX (which I want) plus an Axis(which I love)". I contacted a hoyt dealer and told them "shut up and take my money". 

What I purchased is a 27" Ion-x in blue and formula 720 limbs, 42# medium. First thing I notice, sticker and keychain come with both the limbs and riser. Whatever happened to a hat? Both the riser and limbs did come in nice sleaves, not all manufacturers do that. Second thing I notice, the graphics and carbon look on the limbs are very nice. Next I checked out the riser. The sight window is huge. The grip is great. I spent a lot of time working on my axis grip. I am not seeing that as an issue. The shape is what I would expect from something like a Loesch grip. The throat of he grip is super slim. 

The setup was pretty much what you expect. The major hassle was remembering which way to move he little washer to line up the limbs. Yes, everything was not perfectly in line straight out of the box. After that, set the tillers, set the brace height. I reused the accessories from my old backup bow. Cavalier free flight rest, cavalier plunger, sure loc sight, beiter tunnel sight (the smaller one), 6" ace extender, down angled cavalier j bar, 12" ace side rods, and I think 33" beiter main stabilizer. I built an 18 strand 8125 string for it. Setup the center shot and nock height and I was ready to shoot. Shooting the same x10s I have been. 

First shot, this is the quietest olympic bow I have ever shot. 

Some other observations are that this is a very stiff riser, very much like the axis. I like that, others may not. My initial thoughts on the grip hold true after shooting it. That is a great improvement over older models. It seems noticeably faster, I have not had time to drag my chronograph out and measure it. At full draw the bow holds pretty well, but that's usually a factor of arm stamina, and stabilizers. I do need to play with moving the stabilizer weights around a bit. 

The only issue I have had is that the screw on the top hard lock adjustment keeps coming loose. If it doesn't stop I will put some loc tite on it (I know, use the color that makes it so it won't come lose on its own, but still easy with an Allen wrench). 

In reading some of the previous posts, I can say I definitely see that this bow could be very accurate, and forgiving. I did not notice 35% less vibration as far as the feel in my hand. Keep in mind that the first thing I noticed shooting was how quiet it is, and noise or lack there of does have to come from somewhere. 

I don't have any pictures, but hopefully will take some soon.


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## Vittorio (Jul 17, 2003)

I have had a look to Ion few days ago at the largest archery store in in Italy. Honestly, I have never been a fan of any TEC solution, but I have appreciated a lot the Formula design in terms of balance. Regret to say that in my opinion this TEC bar brings back all problems shown by previous TEC bars on previous Hoyt risers. First, a good riser design becomes unbalanced and torquing at release, so needing much more weight to stabilize it, second big hands can't fit without touching the bar, and finally it can't be used for Bare Bow shooting. The shop had only one piece to show to customers since some weeks, but owner said me he hasn't sold one, yet. I know that George and John are both fans of the Tec bar, but as far as my experience is concerned, Italian market does not like this solution at all. When I was running a pro shop in 2007-2008, th only TEC riser I have sold in 2 years was to a ... French archer. Then, Tec solution was abandoned by Hoyt, distributors discounted the remaining risers under the cost of the standard ones, and everyone forgot about it until now. Let's see how things will go this time...


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## >--gt--> (Jul 1, 2002)

> unbalanced and torquing at release, so needing much more weight to stabilize it


You obviously haven't actually shot one, Vito.

Back on topic, here's an FDC for the long riser/short limb configuration.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Impressive curve for short limbs at that draw length - no noticeable stack to 30.5"

This is the type of curve I like to see from my limbs, with the curve starting to "just" climb a bit right at my draw length. So for an archer with a 30.25" draw length, that combination looks ideal. 

This is what I mean about finding the right combination of riser length, geometry, limb and limb weight to get the draw force curve that suits you. But first, you have to know what you want. Most archers are fortunate in that they've not shot enough different combinations to know the difference, and can be happy with whatever is in their hands at the moment... 

Those F7's sure seem to be a new era of limb for Hoyt. Not sure what took so long, or what changed, but I'm glad to see that it appears the limbs may have finally caught up with the risers.

John


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Was there ever any thought to bringing back the tec bar for the RX, or has Hoyt pretty well decided that this newer, less deflexed geometry is the new "standard" for them?


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## kshet26 (Dec 20, 2010)

With all the talk of 27" and short and 27" and medium, what's the current thinking on riser limb combinations? I currently prefer a 70" bow, with a 29" draw should I be looking at a 27" riser with med limbs?


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

That's what I would recommend.


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## archeryking (Aug 3, 2002)

Some pics of my Ion-X


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## kshet26 (Dec 20, 2010)

Nice pics! Man, this thread has been incredibly helpful! It looks like I'll be checking out a 27" ion with med F7s in the very near future!


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Pretty bow. I have to admit that tec bar grew on me after a while. I still string up my Axis and shoot it every now and then. It's just a unique feeling you can't get with any other riser. I don't know about this one, but the Axis is just dead stock still in the hand. I mean so stable. You can feel the limbs working around the riser, but the riser just sits there. Every other riser I've shot, I can feel it flex as I draw it and definitely when I shoot it. 

John


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## x-slayer1440 (May 21, 2012)

Its definately growing on me... i hated it at first but ive seen Jake Kaminskis and it looks pretty nice. i have never shot a tec riser though... im shooting an RX right now.


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## rharper (Apr 30, 2012)

Just got mine last night. Went today to shoot 60 arrows. I felt a difference in vibration being lower then my HPX. Dialed in fairly quick so now it's form work for me. I got the pearl white version.


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## kshet26 (Dec 20, 2010)

I'm still waiting on a 27" pearl white one from Lancaster. Hopefully the restock date doesn't get pushed again! Are you shooting foam or wood F7s?


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## x-slayer1440 (May 21, 2012)

Anybody like it more than their hpx?


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## x-slayer1440 (May 21, 2012)

I cant decide on the 2... I'm shooting an RX with F2s now.


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## rharper (Apr 30, 2012)

I like it more then my HPX but just in that one aspect of noticing a little less vibration. Other then that, to me, it's the same. Either way is an excellent choice. I used 34lb foam limbs for while and am using 38lb wood F7's now (swapped with the owner of the shop I do business with). I pull about 41 pounds at my DL. Due to the change in poundage, I can't really say one limb is better then the other. I have heard the foam limbs are a tad faster but that's about it.


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## teebat (Oct 28, 2013)

limbwalker said:


> That's what I would recommend.


I have a 30.5 draw, would that be too much stacking for me with the same setup? 27" Prodigy XT with medium quatros. Right now I shoot a 25" Ion-X with Long quatros but I have the sight window issue.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Wow, a long dead thread back to life...

I think you'd be fine with a 27" prodigy and medium quattros at 30.5"


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## teebat (Oct 28, 2013)

limbwalker said:


> Wow, a long dead thread back to life...
> 
> I think you'd be fine with a 27" prodigy and medium quattros at 30.5"


thanks. Dead but much needed.


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