# nock left bare shaft



## 12bhunting (Sep 9, 2009)

on a bare shaft tune my fletched are hitting the target straight & the bare is hitting the target crooked nock to the left. they are hitting 1 - 1 1/2" apart. i cannot seem to get the crooked flight out, any advise? thanks


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## 12bhunting (Sep 9, 2009)

when i move the rest to the right it does not seem to help any.


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## Frederick D. Be (Mar 3, 2009)

*Nock left*

When bare shafting you do not necessarily have to have the point of impact (POI) of both the fletched and bare shafts in the same place for the bow to be tuned. I had an outback which I spent days bare shafting and when I did get the same POI I had a tear on one side...but when I finally left it alone and had a perfect tear and a perfect straight arrow on the bare shaft their POIs were about 1 1/2 to 2 inches different. If I remember correctly nock left rest left...I rack the brain cells everytime I have to think about that one.


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## 12bhunting (Sep 9, 2009)

thats what i was thinking but the more left i go the farther apart my groups hit as far as fletch vs bare


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## TAP (May 28, 2002)

12bhunting said:


> thats what i was thinking but the more left i go the farther apart my groups hit as far as fletch vs bare


Sometimes you have reached the limit to what it is possible with the existing form and equipment. 1-2 inches and only slightly angled is pretty good actually. How far was this? 10 yards or so....?

things you can do to experiment. What you are explaining indicates slightly weak if you are right handed. Try lowering the point weight at least 25 grains and see if the bareshaft changes? No change then chances are the design of the system is providing the best it will get.

Some other things you can try are releases and anchor point. Your grip and shot follow-thru are also very important for this type of tuning. This is the ONLY way I have ever tuned a bow so I have a lot of time vested in this!


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## slicer (Dec 18, 2008)

From my experiences and hair pulling you will find POI will change from a bare shaft to a bare shaft with electrical tape in place of fletchings. It doesn't take much to equal your fletching weight. And more times the POI will move right for me anyway an inch or two with the proper fletching weight on the back of the arrow. Use a scale or balance a fletched one on something and equal the fulcrum point with your tape. Curious to see how you come out.


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## Frederick D. Be (Mar 3, 2009)

*Bare Shaft*



TAP said:


> Sometimes you have reached the limit to what it is possible with the existing form and equipment. 1-2 inches and only slightly angled is pretty good actually. How far was this? 10 yards or so....?
> 
> things you can do to experiment. What you are explaining indicates slightly weak if you are right handed. Try lowering the point weight at least 25 grains and see if the bareshaft changes? No change then chances are the design of the system is providing the best it will get.
> 
> Some other things you can try are releases and anchor point. Your grip and shot follow-thru are also very important for this type of tuning. This is the ONLY way I have ever tuned a bow so I have a lot of time vested in this!


Thanks for the input TAP...I learned something from that about point weight. I never really played with that much...great advice.


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## 12bhunting (Sep 9, 2009)

what i do not get is now i have me bare and fletched hitting each other every shot but my bare nock is always slightly to the left. 70 # diamond marquis 29" draw 29" 340 mfx team realtree with 100gr. head. 3 4" feathers.


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## 12bhunting (Sep 9, 2009)

will a bare shaft still group at 30-40 yards? or is this to far?


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## TAP (May 28, 2002)

12bhunting said:


> will a bare shaft still group at 30-40 yards? or is this to far?


Some really die hard field/fita shooters will bareshaft WAY out there. I usually consider 20 yards as all I need to accomplish.


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## EZ4U (Dec 28, 2005)

If you are shooting a drop away rest, much of the information you are getting in this thread is wrong.


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## TAP (May 28, 2002)

EZ4U said:


> If you are shooting a drop away rest, much of the information you are getting in this thread is wrong.


really? how so?


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## EZ4U (Dec 28, 2005)

For starters. If you are shooting right hand with a drop away rest and your nock is leaning to the left you need to weaken up the spine of the shaft, because your arrow is is too stiff. To do that, use a longer arrow, heavier tip, or go to a weaker spine shaft.

Adding weight to the front of the arrow makes the dynamic spine weaker, adding weight to the back of the arrow makes the spine stiffer. Three 4" vanes weigh about 30 grains and will make a difference in bare shafting. The suggestion to add electrical tape to the back of the arrow to equal weight of vanes is a good one. You need to weight the tape and vanes on a balance beam grain scale. 

Paper tuning is a waste of time usually, because of paradox of the arrow shaft in flight. It is a rough indication at best.


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## TAP (May 28, 2002)

EZ4U said:


> For starters. If you are shooting right hand with a drop away rest and your nock is leaning to the left you need to weaken up the spine of the shaft, because your arrow is is too stiff. To do that, use a longer arrow, heavier tip, or go to a weaker spine shaft[.QUOTE]
> 
> WRONG! The Easton Tuning guide indicates it IS weak and needs to be stiffer in some way form or fashion....
> 
> Drop away rests have no bearing on this issue. The arrow either recovers to slow, or it recovers too fast (weak -vs- stiff) and where it impacts is the same.


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## EZ4U (Dec 28, 2005)

Tap, I agree with your illistrations when the shooter is shooting with fingers. I assumed the op was using a release. If so, I stand by my statement. 

Would you agree that, all other things being equal, cutting an arrow shaft off shorter would make it shoot stiffer? If you agree with that, take 5 arrow shafts and cut them in half inch increments and shoot them and tell me what you learn from that. I did it, and shooting a release with a drop away rest will make the shortest arrow impact more to the right (tail left). 

I have used this method to tune Hoyts, Bowtech, Mathews and several other brands of bows. All tuned to shoot bare shafts with fletched field point arrows. By the way, The Mathews and Admiral wanted a soft spine shaft. Hoyts wanted a stiffer shaft. Two identical Alpha Max bows, that I own right now,want different arrow shafts. One shoots a 340 the other a 400, with the same point weight. 

To the OP: Put some time into the tuning process and find out for your self what works. It is good to have a wide selection of shafts and arrow components on hand, and an arrow cut off saw is near a must. Don't give up, until you are satisfied. If you are satisfied that is all that counts. 

Good luck to all........I am done here. If you want to discuss this further, I will be glad to answer PM's.


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## TAP (May 28, 2002)

EZ4U said:


> Tap, I agree with your illistrations when the shooter is shooting with fingers. I assumed the op was using a release. If so, I stand by my statement.
> 
> Would you agree that, all other things being equal, cutting an arrow shaft off shorter would make it shoot stiffer? If you agree with that, take 5 arrow shafts and cut them in half inch increments and shoot them and tell me what you learn from that. I did it, and shooting a release with a drop away rest will make the shortest arrow impact more to the right (tail left).
> 
> ...


I too have MANY years and just about every bow manufactures flagship under my belt. All we can do is agree to disagree! The flight dynamics dont change because of how the arrow leaves the bow. The whole idea behind spine is finding the combination where the arrow's oscillation can recover to the direction it was pointed or not. 

All my tests (and I am willing to bet I have more than you!  ) for TAP through the last 15 years have been pretty much the same. They match the tuning guide perfectly.

I can't explain why your experience is different, but I stand by the guide as my rule of thumb and all we can do is agree to disagree!


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## mitchell (Mar 5, 2005)

I'll join with this a few additional comments. I have been bare shafting for almost 20 years, recurves, and more recently compounds. However, only recently have I tried a drop away. 95% of mine has been with fingers.

The drop away comment intrigues, me, but am not getting why that rest would change the dynamic spine. I do know with fingers, you need side pressure for a rest to work well. Some of the drop aways stay up long enough to accomplish that. 

I use the tape at the back, and can usually get a bare shaft to fly well at 30 yds with fingers. I'd suggest you work with it until you get it working at 20 yds minimum, but that is probably sufficient.

One other comment; if a shaft is way to stiff it can bounce off of the inside portion of the rest, and give a misleading nock left indication (at least I know this to be true with fingers). When I cannot get the nock high out of a shaft, that is usually an indication to me that I may be overspined so much that it is bouncing.

I'd like to hear his thinking on the drop away. Maybe there is something here I have yet to learn.:wink:


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## drockw (Sep 3, 2008)

EZ4U said:


> For starters. If you are shooting right hand with a drop away rest and your nock is leaning to the left you need to weaken up the spine of the shaft, because your arrow is is too stiff. To do that, use a longer arrow, heavier tip, or go to a weaker spine shaft.
> 
> Adding weight to the front of the arrow makes the dynamic spine weaker, adding weight to the back of the arrow makes the spine stiffer. Three 4" vanes weigh about 30 grains and will make a difference in bare shafting. The suggestion to add electrical tape to the back of the arrow to equal weight of vanes is a good one. You need to weight the tape and vanes on a balance beam grain scale.
> 
> Paper tuning is a waste of time usually, because of paradox of the arrow shaft in flight. It is a rough indication at best.


Exactly opposite of what 99% of the experienced tunin people will say... Nock left(poi right)=weak

if your bh's are impacting right and the rest I centered what do u say!?? Spine I weak...


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## drockw (Sep 3, 2008)

drockw said:


> Exactly opposite of what 99% of the experienced tunin people will say... Nock left(poi right)=weak
> 
> if your bh's are impacting right and the rest I centered what do u say!?? Spine I weak...


I u don't agree, take a 500 spine arrow bareshaft, and then take a 300 and see where poi is. If u need a 400 spine, and try to tune with a 500 u are going to impact right(nock left) and if u use the 300 u will impact left(nock right)


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## ThePreBanMan (Oct 12, 2014)

reviving old thread - but just wanted to say my experience matches DrockW's. My stiff spines impact nock left. I have read the Easton tuning guide. I have followed it to a T - and almost bought stiffer spines... But something didn't seem right to me. I knew if anything I was already on the stiff side... Banged my head against the wall for a while. Then I discovered Software for Archers. Then I also read the fine print in the Easton tuning guide that say these are guidelines - not absolutes. 

Long story short - I installed a heavier field point and my bare shaft nock left was significantly reduced. Could have been the result of more FOC - but that was my experience.
Now when setting up from scratch - I set my true center shot, zero out any cam lean and paper tune nock height. But I determine my arrow spine using this software. It's amazing how well and closely the software matches what happens at the range.


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## thwackaddict (Sep 1, 2006)

I dropped from 100 to 75 grain heads then had the same poi. 

Next time I bought stiffer shafts. Then could use same point weight and heavier.


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## baker88 (Apr 4, 2021)

NOT WRONG, and id bet you $1000 i can prove it with pictures and or video


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## Nick72 (Aug 14, 2020)

baker88 said:


> NOT WRONG, and id bet you $1000 i can prove it with pictures and or video


and he might of cared 6 years ago.


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## baker88 (Apr 4, 2021)

Nick72 said:


> and he might of cared 6 years ago.


problem is they still push bullshit


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## North Park (Jan 14, 2014)

baker88 said:


> NOT WRONG, and id bet you $1000 i can prove it with pictures and or video





baker88 said:


> problem is they still push bullshit


Wow, great first two posts on the forum.


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