# OAA Trad rule



## CLASSICHUNTER (May 20, 2005)

it means nothing to build up shelf ..period ...you can build up to 1/8 of an inch off of the original cast or manufactured shelf... its like taking a cast riser bow building it up then sticking a 1/8 rug on it...it is built up more than 1/8.. if you want then buy a rest stick it on and shoot ru class...the rules are very clear...if you build up shelf radius with anything it is considered a covering and 1/8 in rule applies... I shoot a formula rx hoyt with chair pads 1/8 of an inch only totally legal...put bondo or epoxy on shelf first then illegal ...tell the guy to shoot ru ...or file shelf to take metal away and radius then its legal with a 1/8 in covering...international and fca or archery Canada allows a SIMPLE stick on rest like a j2 or hoyt super rest...no plungers allowed...


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## Bigjono (Apr 21, 2009)

I disagree Ted


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## Bigjono (Apr 21, 2009)

I don't see that in the rules anywhere Ted. People have been building up shelves for years with no issue. I hope the OAA clarify this.


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## CLASSICHUNTER (May 20, 2005)

so maybe from some places but building up a shelf is a raised rest .. a rule twist ..not a intergrageted part of the bow..so that is why the 1/8 inch rule..some people have to play the dumbie up card..thats why they have ru class you have added to the shelf height ..not within 1/8..play on words and if you where shooting against me I would protest.. even playing field and enough classes to accommodate the machined risers...seems trad has run smoothly for years with a true trad class and a ru class buy bows accordingly and shoot in that class.. and clubs should have all classes...winning a class with a cheater bow is not a accomplishment...like I said I have a 700 dollar riser and use chair pads ...to be legal..


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## crazymoose (May 17, 2005)

In the IBO rule book under the TRD Class " a softer material can be used on the shelf or strike plate but it can not exceed 1/8" in thickness."
Any modifications to the riser that exceed 1/8" rule in my opinion would therefore move you to the RU class which allows you to shoot an elevated rest.


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## Bigjono (Apr 21, 2009)

Look at the risers that win in iBO Trad Ted. Hoyt ion, Spig BB, Spig Explorer and Club, Sky TR7, all shooting off built up shelves built high enough to use a bolt through the plunger hole as a strike plate.


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## shootthewhatnow (Jan 29, 2008)

From the OAA rule book for 3D shoots... pg. 164->165

https://www.oaa-archery.on.ca/index.php?option=com_docman&task=doc_download&gid=27&Itemid=125

11.19.14 _[FCA Differs]_Traditional – TRD (m/f) or TRD (m) & TRD (f)
Any recurve bow or longbow may be used.
The bow must be shot with a glove, finger tab or bare fingers.
A sight is not allowed.
Stabilizers are not allowed.
While shooting, the archer will touch the arrow with the index finger
against the nock. The archer will use a single anchor point - string walking
and face walking are not allowed.
The arrow must be shot *from the shelf or hand with no elevated rest. Only
a piece of leather or similar material 1/8 inch thick or less is allowed on
the arrow shelf.*

<the underlining/bolding is mine>

The intent of the rule (IMHO) is that an archer should not place more than a 1/8" thick piece of *anything* between the "manufacturer's riser" of the bow and the arrow... modifying the "riser" by building up the shelf should count in your 1/8th ... 

The traditional class is there for those who choose (again, IMHO) to forgo the advantages of machined risers and center-shot adjustable bows (ect...) in favor of doing things in a more "traditional" way... if you choose to take advantage of the advances in bow technology, you don't belong in a Traditional class.... it's for those who wish to shoot with a rug rest, or even off their hand.

RU on the other hand (pg. 163) allows for an adjustable arrow shelf/rest... again, bolding/underline is mine. This would be the class for those who wish to use a built up machined riser/rest (again, IMHO).

11.19.11 Recurve Un-Aided – RU (m/f) or RU (m) & RU (f)
A recurve or longbow may be used. Shoot-through risers are not allowed.
The bow must be shot with a glove, finger tab or bare fingers.
No sighting device or markings or protrusions are allowed and there must
be no markings on the bow or on the bowstring that could be of use in
aiming. Multi-coloured risers and trademarks on the inside of the limbs are
allowed.
An *arrow rest, which can be adjustable, a moveable pressure button,
pressure point or arrow plate may all be used* on the bow provided they are
not electric or electronic and do not offer any additional aid in aiming. The
pressure point may not be placed any further back than 2cm (inside) from
the throat of the handle (pivot point of the bow).
No draw check device is allowed.
The maximum diameter of arrow shafts will not exceed 9.3mm: the points
(heads) for these arrows may have a maximum diameter of 9.4mm. All
arrows of every athlete must be marked with the athlete‟s name or initials
on the shaft. All arrows used at any end will carry the same pattern and
colour(s) of fletching, nocks and cresting, if any.
Arrows shall be identical in length, weight and colour, except for normal
wear.
No stabilizers are allowed and the unbraced bow complete with permitted
accessories must be capable of passing through a hole or ring with a 12.2cm 
inside diameter +/- 0.5mm. Torque flight compensators fitted as
part of the bow are permitted provided that they do not also have
stabilizers. Weight(s) may be added to the lower part of the riser. All
weights, regardless of shape, must mount directly to the riser without rids,
extensions, angular mounting connections or shock-absorbing devices.
Face and string walking is permitted.

ect... (there is more, but I've cut it as it's off topic)


Discuss as you see fit, but there's the rules.


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## CLASSICHUNTER (May 20, 2005)

don`t know where you were but I shot at the ibo`s and not so when I was there for 3 yrs... and saw 3 guys dq`d for such antics.. after the first day ... are you talking ibo trad worlds or ibo worlds where this is not allowed .... trad worlds are different and they are trying to build numbers and it is only been held what 2 yrs now and this will be the third...and if you read ibo rules for the worlds this does not apply ....seems if you have to do this then buy a riser that is accommodating to class... cut and dry..and as I mentioned before ..radius a shelf ..like the hoyt buffalo and you have a machined riser with a radius shelf.... there ya go ...and its legal... thank you shooting the what now ..as I stated but you explained better...


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## Bigjono (Apr 21, 2009)

Hey Ted, Trad worlds is more than 2 years old.
I have no real dog in this fight, just trying to answer a question for somebody but I suggest you speak to DeWayne Martin or John Demmer Ted. Those guys dominate trad class at iBO between them, here is a quote from DeWayne - I shoot my Hoyts off the shelf for IBO and ASA....however I don't lay the arrow tight to the shelf...I build it up to the same height as the plunger hole..maybe it helps,maybe it matters,maybe it doesnt....I feel the whole entire riser was designed around the plunger hole and why lay the arrow 3/4" lower than that.

and a couple of normal shelves you see there. This is why guys get confused. My daughter has her shelf built up to plunger hole and a countersunk bolt as a strike plate. No issues in iBO FYTRD????


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## Crunch (Nov 28, 2002)

Interesting thread guys. I'm following it closely.


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## wanemann (Oct 7, 2010)

" if you choose to take advantage of the advances in bow technology, you don't belong in a Traditional class.... it's for those who wish to shoot with a rug rest, or even off their hand."

sorry, but the shelf itself big, small, flat, or rounded off is an advance in bow technology, you belief in how far bow technology is allowed to go and still be trad probably suites your style and same with those who say otherwise


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## rockin_johny (Oct 9, 2004)

And what about us guys that use a simple stick on Bear Weather Rest (or similar) We are not using a plunger and this style of rest was used by the Trad godfathers for years (Fred Bear)

I know technically I have to shoot RU class, but it is not an advanced rest system with no adjustment.


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## Bigjono (Apr 21, 2009)

wanemann said:


> " if you choose to take advantage of the advances in bow technology, you don't belong in a Traditional class.... it's for those who wish to shoot with a rug rest, or even off their hand."
> 
> sorry, but the shelf itself big, small, flat, or rounded off is an advance in bow technology, you belief in how far bow technology is allowed to go and still be trad probably suites your style and same with those who say otherwise


I showed this thread and the Facebook thread to the guy at our club who asked me the question and it sorted things out for him, he joined iBO.


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## CLASSICHUNTER (May 20, 2005)

trad worlds are fairly new maybe 3 yrs old and this will be their 4th yr ..hey this is just a good healthy thread and I see the top trad and ru shooters putting in their own take ..on the ruling.. but 1/8 of an inch is still 1/8 of an inch lol lol and joking here your wife thinks its a foot long lol lol take care all you trad guys ..I`m out for 6 months carpal tunnel operation on both wrists in 5 days so can`t shoot but will be able to design one hell of a course for the shoot.. hopefully a pond and some shooting platforms ..and bleechers for the shoot down wayne... top 5 in trad guys ...for the money....


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## Bigjono (Apr 21, 2009)

Get well soon Ted and I will wait to hear what the Prez says on this.
2014 will be the 6th year of Trad Worlds by the way.


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## shootthewhatnow (Jan 29, 2008)

wanemann said:


> " if you choose to take advantage of the advances in bow technology, you don't belong in a Traditional class.... it's for those who wish to shoot with a rug rest, or even off their hand."
> 
> sorry, but the shelf itself big, small, flat, or rounded off is an advance in bow technology, you belief in how far bow technology is allowed to go and still be trad probably suites your style and same with those who say otherwise





rockin_johny said:


> And what about us guys that use a simple stick on Bear Weather Rest (or similar) We are not using a plunger and this style of rest was used by the Trad godfathers for years (Fred Bear)
> 
> I know technically I have to shoot RU class, but it is not an advanced rest system with no adjustment.




We as an archery community set a class as a group of rules that we agree on... If you want something different (ie. "Trad" is only shooting off your hand, or allows for a rest instead as long as it's a basic one ... then define what "basic" means) show up to the OAA meeting, propose it to the prez or rules comity, or allow that somewhere a line in the sand needs to be drawn so we can get on with shooting...

The only reason I was quoting the rule book here was a post previously that wasn't sure on where the rules were in the book. The *spirit* of the rule appears (again, IMHO) to indicate that building up a shelf is disallowed... Clear it up with the rules comity if you wish.


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## wanemann (Oct 7, 2010)

shootthewhatnow said:


> We as an archery community set a class as a group of rules that we agree on... If you want something different (ie. "Trad" is only shooting off your hand, or allows for a rest instead as long as it's a basic one ... then define what "basic" means) show up to the OAA meeting, propose it to the prez or rules comity, or allow that somewhere a line in the sand needs to be drawn so we can get on with shooting...
> 
> The only reason I was quoting the rule book here was a post previously that wasn't sure on where the rules were in the book. The *spirit* of the rule appears (again, IMHO) to indicate that building up a shelf is disallowed... Clear it up with the rules comity if you wish.


no, I do not wish to take it up with anyone because I don't care, I did not intend to offend you, I was simply pointing out the flaw in your humble opinion, and others like you with their opinion, that being what advances each of us feel is ok but still trad,myself I don't care what anyone shoots. I fell as long as you aren't consciously calculating and aiming than you are trad, some feel its the bow wood or metal, one piece or take down, anchor split or 3 under and so on and so on. this is why I now shoot oly recurve only a few restrictions on the sight, other than that, if you like it shoot it. IMHO if trad dosnt change with the times its future is in trouble.


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## Bigjono (Apr 21, 2009)

wanemann said:


> no, I do not wish to take it up with anyone because I don't care, I did not intend to offend you, I was simply pointing out the flaw in your humble opinion, and others like you with their opinion, that being what advances each of us feel is ok but still trad,myself I don't care what anyone shoots. I fell as long as you aren't consciously calculating and aiming than you are trad, some feel its the bow wood or metal, one piece or take down, anchor split or 3 under and so on and so on. this is why I now shoot oly recurve only a few restrictions on the sight, other than that, if you like it shoot it. IMHO if trad dosnt change with the times its future is in trouble.


I agree with you Wayne. Look at the age of most trad shooters here, no spring chickens and it's not a class that attracts the kids. They like bling and ease of use, so perhaps the future is not good.


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## shakyshot (Dec 21, 2007)

Trad should be nothing more than a bow with a string on it with cedar shafts.
aluminum or carbon arrows should change that because there is nothing "trad" about aluminum or cedar


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## Bigjono (Apr 21, 2009)

shakyshot said:


> Trad should be nothing more than a bow with a string on it with cedar shafts.
> aluminum or carbon arrows should change that because there is nothing "trad" about aluminum or cedar


Then you get into banning bow materials, plastic nocks etc etc, it takes you right back to primitive. The problem with "Trad" is, ask 20 guys what it means and you get 20 different answers.


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## crazymoose (May 17, 2005)

I don't believe that there is any problem with "trad" and it's interpretation.
If you ask 20 people that shoot traditional equipment on a regular basis and that are tournament shooters, I'm sure your only going to get 2 answers, trad class and RU.
The question has already been answered by previous posts to this thread and I don't believe that the future of trad is any real danger.
Sometimes I think people are trying to "change the rules" to suit themselves and their equipment set ups instead of following the rules that are already in place.
It's time to stop "splitting hairs" and move on.
Have a great archery season everyone.


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## KM68 (Feb 9, 2014)

Lots of great points on both sides of the line, but it makes me wonder, (and this is just me speculating). Why aren't the rules and guidelines being more strictly adhered to? Is no one doing equipment checks prior to the event? Seems to me that some places just want shooters to show up so that they can showcase their event. IMHO if you advertise more categories for potential shooters you might get more on the line. Either way, if you overlook a potential rule violation, then the only one who benefits is the one for whom the rule was broken for.


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## Bigjono (Apr 21, 2009)

KM68 said:


> Lots of great points on both sides of the line, but it makes me wonder, (and this is just me speculating). Why aren't the rules and guidelines being more strictly adhered to? Is no one doing equipment checks prior to the event? Seems to me that some places just want shooters to show up so that they can showcase their event. IMHO if you advertise more categories for potential shooters you might get more on the line. Either way, if you overlook a potential rule violation, then the only one who benefits is the one for whom the rule was broken for.


I have never had or seen a bow check done here.


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## Bigjono (Apr 21, 2009)

crazymoose said:


> I don't believe that there is any problem with "trad" and it's interpretation.
> If you ask 20 people that shoot traditional equipment on a regular basis and that are tournament shooters, I'm sure your only going to get 2 answers, trad class and RU.
> The question has already been answered by previous posts to this thread and I don't believe that the future of trad is any real danger.
> Sometimes I think people are trying to "change the rules" to suit themselves and their equipment set ups instead of following the rules that are already in place.
> ...


The future of trad is a different thread, this one was not asking for a rule change just a clarification of the wording on the rule. This is being looked at now by the rules committee.


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## KM68 (Feb 9, 2014)

depending on where the tournament is here Nb, and who the judges usually dictates if there is an inspection.


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## Stash (Jun 1, 2002)

Should be an inspection by certified judges at any shoot that's registered for world level record status, national or provincial.
Club level - it's up to the club.

As for the 1/8" rule - it's pretty straightforward, as has been stated.

You can get around it by actually manufacturing a riser with a high shelf, (either a production or custom model from a company, or make your own), then sticking the last 1/8 on top for a cushion or wear pad. I've seen this sort of thing at FITA World level. Before they were allowed by the rules, people were making custom extra-heavy risers for barebow with weights built in, not added on.

But if you add anything to a manufactured riser, bolted, glued, welded, to raise the shelf, it's a no-no. 

OAA rule, so if you want it changed to match IBO or anything else, you know the drill.


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## Bigjono (Apr 21, 2009)

OAA rule, so if you want it changed to match IBO or anything else, you know the drill.[/QUOTE]

I will say it try again for those not quite getting it. I or anyone else haven't asked for anything to be changed. I couldn't give a rats arse if I'm honest but as an official at an OAA club I was asked to clarify the rule and that is what Mike will do when it's been looked at.


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## CLASSICHUNTER (May 20, 2005)

jon as a friend here.. you post # 28 are saying you where asked as a official ..this is the first we heard of this in official capacity.. rule is pretty cut and dry as stash has said and believe me stash and I don`t always see eye to eye ..but here we do... but back to your officiating role here... it would of been your call and interpretation of the rule.. at said tournament.. as it states in rule book and regs.... if not a sanctioned oaa tournament oaa states [ club rules can be applied ] ....... also you stated in earlier posts your buddy joined ibo...am I reading this wrong..why and at the provincials last year my bow was checked and tagged still have the sticker on the bow...pink round circle andy put on it we waited in line every one of us as a sanctioned shoot...all classes and ages... kudos oaa...


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## Bigjono (Apr 21, 2009)

It was my call Ted and as I'm used to seeing normal shelf build ups it was no problem but my club member wants to shoot bigger tournaments so asked me to make sure. I don't see the rule here the way you do Ted and to me your interpretation makes no sense but what ever the rules guys say is what matters in the end. Yes he did read through this and the Facebook post and that's what put him off.


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## Bigjono (Apr 21, 2009)

Went to a good open shoot at Halton today. There was no sign in sheet for RU, only Trad. No biggie, I just put my name under CU but it was with a wry grin as I watched a "Trad" class shooter complete with wire rest and plunger warming up on the range.
Great shoot though, you guys should go next time.


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## crazymoose (May 17, 2005)

Hey John, it was a good shoot today and I think some people missed out on a fun day.
Sorry I missed you today but I was shooting with John Post and AJ Joxen.
Maybe next time.


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## bradd7 (Oct 17, 2008)

I LOVE these threads. Doesn't matter how you have to build your shelf to meet the rules, just adjust your nock point to compensate. There are always(AT LEAST) two ways to solve every tuning problem with a bow!


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## CLASSICHUNTER (May 20, 2005)

john no answer from our rules committee yet????


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## Bigjono (Apr 21, 2009)

Heard nothing yet Ted


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## FiFi (Dec 4, 2002)

has a formal request been sent to the committee


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## CLASSICHUNTER (May 20, 2005)

I think some where in this thread John said he asked mike in regards to a ruling if not in the oaa facebook section..


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## Bigjono (Apr 21, 2009)

I did Ted and Mike assured me it was going before the committee so I'm good with that.


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## Stash (Jun 1, 2002)

Just in case it's not clear, the new Rules Committee isn't there to interpret rules, it's there to handle the protocol of suggested new rules or changes to the old ones.


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## CLASSICHUNTER (May 20, 2005)

I guess we are in limbo then ..no one to make a judgement call ??????


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## Stash (Jun 1, 2002)

No limbo. The original question was in regards to the _*OAA*_ Trad rule, and it was quoted in this thread and is fairly clear. At an OAA Championship shoot, equipment is supposed to be inspected by a certified judge, and there's no "interpretation" to be made here. Simple pass or fail.

It's possible of course for a certified judge to make an error. If he does, it's not a precedent for future exceptions to a rule. 

At a club level shoot which is supposedly run under OAA rules, with no certified judge assigned, someone else can be asked to make a call on a rule. He may be right, he may be wrong, but it's up to the club to handle any issues arising from any disputes about it.

If anyone needs further _*official *_clarification on this or any other OAA shooting rule, the best persons to contact would be the OAA Judging Chairs, either Randy Jones or Laura Lynne Churchill, who can be reached at [email protected]


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## Bigjono (Apr 21, 2009)

As far as I know we are still waiting for clarification of the rule from the rules committee. I still read it as the shelf coverage shall be no greater than 1/8" but I don't see a restriction on how one builds up the shelf. That was the original post so we wait for the rules committee to look at it.


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## Stash (Jun 1, 2002)

Let me try this again...


> Just in case it's not clear, the new Rules Committee isn't there to interpret rules, it's there to handle the protocol of suggested new rules or changes to the old ones.





> As for the 1/8" rule - it's pretty straightforward, as has been stated...if you add anything to a manufactured riser, bolted, glued, welded, to raise the shelf, it's a no-no.


If you manufacture your own bow or riser and design it with a high shelf, that's OK, but you cannot modify or build up a stock production riser.



> If anyone needs further official clarification on this or any other OAA shooting rule, the best persons to contact would be the OAA Judging Chairs, either Randy Jones or Laura Lynne Churchill, who can be reached at [email protected]


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## Bigjono (Apr 21, 2009)

Again that was the point I was asked and could only give my opinion and that of a buddy who is an iBO official, that's why I told the guy I would get OAA clarification for him because I see it as the shelf covering can be max 1/8" but nowhere does it say that the "shelf" has to be as it was originally manufactured and a curved piece of wood glued to the existing shelf is ok like this from current iBO world champ John Demmer on his Spig BB


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## Stash (Jun 1, 2002)

I can see where some might interpret the rule as written in different ways. 

One way of thinking (which I share) is that the shelf on the bow _as manufactured_ is the shelf, and that anything added to it is an "elevated rest" whether it is glued, welded, bolted or taped on, and not simply a higher shelf. I'm pretty sure that's the intent of the rule.

Another way of thinking is that the shelf can be built up, like the IBO legal bow. But that makes one wonder why there is any mention of a 1/8" piece of material at all, then.

In any event, not the Rules Committee's job to decide. It would be their job to change the wording of the rule to make it more clear either way if so requested, and present that to the Bord and Membership for voting. 

One of you guys needs to contact Randy or Laura Lynne.


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## Bigjono (Apr 21, 2009)

Just a thought, did anyone from the OAA ever come back on this?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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