# CaMirror™



## walks with a gi (Oct 1, 2002)

The syncrotool:wink:


I thought I had my new Admiral's cams sync'd pretty well, using several methods. Landmarking the cams with the limb surface. Landmarking the cables with the draw stop post at full draw. Taking the cables out of the roller guard and counting dots on the cams... 
Then I thought about the radius I was looking at, between the cables and the limbs/dots and thought, " if only the radius was larger than the 2 inches or so that I'm looking at?" That's when the idea came to make a fixture that would fit precisly on the cam so that a pointer could rest on a common point (the string) , relative to both cams. It had to be repeatably accurate and adjustable. I made up a prototype and checked it on all my bows that had mirror image cams, Binary and dual. It worked very well and also showed me quickly how far off the cams were in relation to each other at brace. My Admiral that I thought was dead nutz on was actually off by 1/4 inch at the pointer, which now gives me a reading 11 inches away from the axle centerline. That's 5 times the accuracy that I normally have to work with, with a 2 inch radius. 
On my Patriot and Pro 40 Dually I also got a suprise! Both were so close that I don't think I could justify going to the extra work to make them perfect,, at more than 11" radius. The last time I shot both these bows they were perfectly in sync at full draw also. It would also be easy enough to purposely to advance one cam ahead of the other if you knew where you wanted to tune your bow. With the much larger radius it is so much easier to see the difference. 
Here's a pic of the first prototype on the bottom cam on my Admiral:wink:


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## walks with a gi (Oct 1, 2002)

Here's a pic of the top cam and the difference the pointer shows. The clip was used to only hold the CaMirror™ in place for the picture.


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## walks with a gi (Oct 1, 2002)

The replacable pegs fit inside the cutouts of the cams and adjustments can be made to fit precisly. On smaller cams or cutouts, the "top" peg can be used while simply resting on top the string while in the cam groove with the same accuracy.


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## ParadigmArchery (Sep 3, 2008)

*Great idea for super tuning * :thumbs_up


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## dbowers (Mar 24, 2004)

That's pretty interesting; have you thought about writing up the procedure for using the device?


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## walks with a gi (Oct 1, 2002)

dbowers said:


> That's pretty interesting; have you thought about writing up the procedure for using the device?


 Yes I have already done some of this using Microsoft Excel. I Have been involved with a group at work for the last 2 months in moving a department to a different location and using Excel for writing Standard Work on work prodecures and machine operation. It's been fun and I learned some valuable skills that I can apply towards my hobbies.
Detailed procedures and pictures will be included with the product


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## x-ring-1 (Oct 31, 2002)

Wwg, Will this work on other bows with different cams systems?


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## walks with a gi (Oct 1, 2002)

x-ring-1 said:


> Wwg, Will this work on other bows with different cams systems?


 It can help keep track of cam orientation on single cam bows. Orient the single cam according to manufacturer's specs and set the tool dead on the string for future reference then play with different orientations to try to make gains on performance or accuracy. Use the CaMirror™ to reset to factory specs if no gains can be found or reset the CaMirror™ to your secret "hot" setting for future reference:wink:
On mirror image cam systems like most Binary and dual cams, the CaMirror™ can be used to exactly duplicate orientations relative to the string. Like suggested above, differentiation's away from exactly the same orientation can be experimented with to gain accuracy or performance. It's a tool you can use to easily see what differences you are making and with much more accuracy than trying to line up tuning marks on the cam relative to the cables or string with sometimes less than a inch of radius.

On Hybrid cam systems,, buy 2.. Keep track of what exactly each cam is doing during the life of the string and cable set. Actually, one CaMirror™ can be used with the front peg resting on the string on each cam with a hybrid cam system, if that cam set has similar cutouts. The user will simply record the difference in measurement, relative to the string.

I think it can help just about any bow. I see Mathews now has a new kid's bow called the Menace that is a dual cam bow? Or maybe it was a Mission bow?


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## x-ring-1 (Oct 31, 2002)

How about a Hoyt Cam and a half system?


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## walks with a gi (Oct 1, 2002)

I tried it on an AM32 but the cams were too different in the cut outs to mirror orient them. I didn't try using the cut out/cam groove method though.


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## Rchr (Jul 3, 2003)

I like your idea. But I do have a question. Once you developed the Camirror do you still take the cables off the roller guards? If you take the cables off that might cause you to get a different measurement than the final set up, the key word is MIGHT. Any point of pressure while at full draw will cause the timing to differ (for example: drawing from a little different nocking pt. will affect it). 



Just food for thought.


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## redman (Feb 22, 2003)

I like it what will the price be looks great


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## walks with a gi (Oct 1, 2002)

Rchr said:


> I like your idea. But I do have a question. Once you developed the Camirror do you still take the cables off the roller guards? If you take the cables off that might cause you to get a different measurement than the final set up, the key word is MIGHT. Any point of pressure while at full draw will cause the timing to differ (for example: drawing from a little different nocking pt. will affect it).
> 
> 
> 
> Just food for thought.


 Leave the cables in the roller guard on the BowTechs. I've found that there is a difference between leaving the cables in the rollers and taking them out. The outermost cable is actually pulled "in" more than the inner cable and will make a difference in rollover. With the CaMirror, you leave the cables in the roller or cable guard and make them identical top to bottom. You can always tune from dead even match to try to find your optimum setting.
The tool can be used as a reference once you find the sweet spot on any bow. Any string or cable stretch from optimum can be seen much easier with the tool as compared to referencing the factory tuning marks, especially with my old eyes:sad:


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## walks with a gi (Oct 1, 2002)

redman said:


> I like it what will the price be looks great


 I'm price hunting materials right now. There are some really cool threaded knobs that I have on the most recent prototype I have but they are $3.00 a piece so that adds $6.00 to the cost verses maybe a quarter for a sucky pair of wing nuts. I need to find a good outlet for all the parts but I'm guessing low to mid 20 bucks range shipped.


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## walks with a gi (Oct 1, 2002)

Here's the latest version made out of Lexan, tough stuff and a great finish. I think this will be the materal to work with and now I'm small parts hunting.


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## Rchr (Jul 3, 2003)

Excuse my ignorance but do these only measure the timing at rest?


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## walks with a gi (Oct 1, 2002)

Rchr said:


> Excuse my ignorance but do these only measure the timing at rest?


 Yes, don't use something like this at full draw or in a crank board. Keep in mind that the string is the only common reference to both cams. Cable angles are different, limb land marking the cams can be different or hard to judge because of the small radius and the bow string is not pulled from center. Even if you could use a tool at full draw on the cams, there is nothing that is common between the top and bottom cam. You can purposely set the top cam ahead of the other with the tool and it's easy to see how much you are setting in advance. Record the setting that gives the best accuracy or performance and you have a future reference. 
Buddy's bow shooting better than your's? CaMirror his cam orientation when he isn't looking:wink:


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## 18javelin (Aug 13, 2005)

So basicly This On the Binary system isnt going to get you perfect Syn its just going to show you where it set after you have your Optimum setting. Sort of a reference to what you Like?

Or are you saying that this is a more Presice way of finding a true syn so to speak?

I can for sure see it being a very useful tool. Just not sure of all its potential yet. Being nock isnt set center it isnt going to be a synch tool Or is it?

Im very interested for the right price i will pick one up.


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## walks with a gi (Oct 1, 2002)

18javelin said:


> So basicly This On the Binary system isnt going to get you perfect Syn its just going to show you where it set after you have your Optimum setting. Sort of a reference to what you Like?
> 
> Or are you saying that this is a more Presice way of finding a true syn so to speak?
> 
> ...


 If you think about it, there isn't a Binary or dual cam bow out there that is "in sync" if it is adjusted to have the cables hit at the exact same time. I say that because of the cable or roller guard. That thing that holds the cables out of the way so we can shoot our bows doesn't allow the cables to cross naturally. Therefore the cables positions are compromised and we are simply adjusting the cables length so that we don't get that "double bump" at full draw. If the modules were designed for the cable angle requirements at full draw, they would not look the same, top to bottom. The only reason we want the cables to hit at the same time is for accuracy, repeatable accuracy even with a slightly varying draw length. If the modules were made differently, to hit the non-matching cable angles at the same time with a bow that has the cams synchronized at brace, it would be much easier to attain consistent accuracy and have better nock travel.
One thing a person can do it to modify the stop on one module to match the end timing at full draw, with cams sync'd at brace. Seems like one would want the cams to stop the shot cycle at exactly the same time for best nock travel, right where the rest is:wink:


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## Rchr (Jul 3, 2003)

The reason I ask if it only checks it at rest is because we found that checking the syncronization at the start of the launch of the arrow (at full draw) is better than at the end, by this I mean checking the sync at full draw. Once the arrow is in motion it is better that it start off even. In other words once that arrow is moving you can't correct it. What we did was a draw board and measured the angle of the cams at full draw. This worked even with different sized cams or wheels like the Redman bows had.

I hope I don't sound critical, I am only trying to give you some insight on to our findings and hopefully you find them helpful.


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## walks with a gi (Oct 1, 2002)

Rchr said:


> The reason I ask if it only checks it at rest is because we found that checking the syncronization at the start of the launch of the arrow (at full draw) is better than at the end, by this I mean checking the sync at full draw. Once the arrow is in motion it is better that it start off even. In other words once that arrow is moving you can't correct it. What we did was a draw board and measured the angle of the cams at full draw. This worked even with different sized cams or wheels like the Redman bows had.
> 
> I hope I don't sound critical, I am only trying to give you some insight on to our findings and hopefully you find them helpful.


 If your cams are set to hit the modules at the same time at full draw, the cams are not in sync unless you allow the cables to cross naturally or have a set up where the cable rod allows them to cross very close to center.
The roller guard on the new BowTechs is the worst of the offenders and luckly the modules have no stops. I checked my Admiral on a crankboard today after making sure the cams were sync'd at brace with the CaMirror and they were on the money at full draw, but not referencing the cables. I referenced scribe marks I put on my cams that I measured with a dial indicator, to the limb surface.
I CaMirrored my '07 Guardian today to be perfectly sync'd at brace and then checked the module stops at full draw. The bottom cam was late by (maybe) 1/16". I then changed the cable slide to cross the cables below the guard rod as compared to above the rod from the factory and then checked at full draw again. The stops hit at the exact same time. It's not that the cams are "out of sync" at full draw, it's the cable angle.

Have you ever been able to accurately measure and match the cams synchronization relative to the string at brace? I've found that one cable twist on my Guardian made a good 1/8" difference at the pointer with the CaMirror. I have a number of bows and have found that if the cams are sync'd at brace with the CaMirror they are so close, even with the different cable angles I couldn't feel one module stop touching before the other. This could be a big time saver and eliminate the need to put the bow in a crankboard or stand in front of a mirror to see what the cams are doing.


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## walks with a gi (Oct 1, 2002)

I just now read that you referenced Redman bows. Those are dual cam systems and much more comes into play such as limb tiller and hand placement as the cams are not physically tied together like a Binary cam system. What's in snyc for you might not be for me. Hand placement and limb tiller has little to do with a Binary cam nor where the string is pulled from, which is the beauty of the system.


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## JWT (Jan 3, 2006)

*put me down for one when you have them complete!!*

This looks like a real time saver.


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## walks with a gi (Oct 1, 2002)

JWT said:


> This looks like a real time saver.


 That's what I think will be the biggest advantage of this tool. Give me a Binary cam bow and 30 seconds and I can determine if it's perfectly sync'd or not, without drawing the bow or having anyone help. It won't necessarly make a bow shoot faster or more accurate unless it's way out of sync to begin with. It will help you maintain string and cable stretch with a tool that can be set to a specific point.


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## Rchr (Jul 3, 2003)

walks with a gi said:


> If your cams are set to hit the modules at the same time at full draw, the cams are not in sync unless you allow the cables to cross naturally or have a set up where the cable rod allows them to cross very close to center.
> 
> 
> Have you ever been able to accurately measure and match the cams synchronization relative to the string at brace? .



We have found this to be opposite of this. If the cams start the launch from an even stand point they will stay that way. The best results have been gotten from measuring at about an inch from full draw. My scores and scores of many others have improved after syncronizing them.

We did try and check the bows at rest but it did not have any effect. They looked and measured very close but at full draw they were different and the results were less than desirable. 

I just remembered; We developed the draw board around 1992 and nobody knew what we were talking about but the guys from SpottHogg did put out a letter about it a few years ago on their website and it might still be there. Their findings were much like ours except they had actually did some slow motion video studies.

just food for thought


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## walks with a gi (Oct 1, 2002)

Rchr, I seem to think you're thinking only about conventional dual cam bows with your posts. I'm specifically commenting on Binary cam systems and the way they operate and how we've "tuned" them since their appearance on the archery scene. I have no doubt you know how to set up and tune a dual cam as i do also. I don't think the CaMirror would be that much use in determining optimum cam synchronization at full draw because of individual bows and shooter requirements. I do believe that with Binary cam systems, it can be a very good shortcut to twisting cables and trying to get the module stops to contact the cables at the same instant.
I used the tool today on a 101st Airborne and sync'd the cams perfectly at brace. The shop owner then put the bow in his Hooter Shooter and brought it to full draw. The module stops didn't quite make contact at the exact same instant with their respective cables but they were so close that we couldn't feel by drawing the bow that they were "out". This is where the tool works and saves time in cam synchronization on Binary cam systems. 
This was also on a bow with a roller guard that drastically changes the cable angles going to the cams. Instead of all the drawing and inspecting and feeling and drawing and inspecting again, just use this tool and make changes with the bow press until they measure dead even and you're done.


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## Rchr (Jul 3, 2003)

Like you said this could be a real time saver.
I tuned my Commander and my 82nd with my draw board and also a friend did his Guardian and 101st the same way and we got great results. But yes it can be time consuming and I have not tried checking the binary cam bows at rest. But it being a binary system you may have something. I will give it a try. I like checking out your posts cause you like to tinker with everything and always come up with good stuff. Keep up the good work.


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## walks with a gi (Oct 1, 2002)

Rchr said:


> Like you said this could be a real time saver.
> I tuned my Commander and my 82nd with my draw board and also a friend did his Guardian and 101st the same way and we got great results. But yes it can be time consuming and I have not tried checking the binary cam bows at rest. But it being a binary system you may have something. I will give it a try. I like checking out your posts cause you like to tinker with everything and always come up with good stuff. Keep up the good work.


 You can certainly make your own CaMirror and try it out. It could be something as simple as a thick piece of cardboard with nails in it but if it isn't ridgid enough to hold a set it can be inconsistent.


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## walks with a gi (Oct 1, 2002)

Here's the fully adjustable CaMirror that will work with smaller cams than what is currently out there also.


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## walks with a gi (Oct 1, 2002)

*CaMirrors™ are available*

Got these ready to go. Shoot me a PM for details


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## CHAMPION2 (May 6, 2004)

ttt for a nice little tool. My Z28 was spot on at its currrent settings. Is it essential to have the bow at max poundage when using the synch tool. My brace height and ata were within elites factory spec guidlelines.


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