# Mathews No Cam HTR and Elite Synergy comparison/review



## markman (Apr 14, 2007)

Okay let me start by saying I am not an engineer or professional archer, I am a hunter and I do shoot a lot of 3d for fun/practice. I have shot Mathews bows years ago and the past 7-8yrs I have shot Hoyt. This year I went to Elite and now shoot an Elite Energy 32, so I am not biased of any bow manufacture. I go out and shoot all the new bows for the year and buy what I feel is the best hunting/shooting bow for me. I am not a fanboy of any brand.

I was in Holmes County Ohio hunting this week and went to the Fin, Fur and Feather store in Ashland, Ohio. I got to shoot the new Mathews No Cam HTR and Elite Synergy side by side, also the Hoyt Nitrum.

Finish/appearance:

1. Mathews No Cam - Bow was absolutely flawless, perfect, the coolest looking bow ever! It is awesome in person! A+ Score
2. Elite Synergy - Typical Elite, beautiful, flawless finish. The only gripe I have with Elite is the cerakote, it's not as durable as anodized. The Synergy has the new Prokote which appeared to be thicker with a little deeper color. Looks to be a better finish than the cerakote, time will tell. Probably the prettiest looking bow. A score
3. Hoyt - okay, dull camo color . B+ score

Draw Cycle:

1. Mathews No Cam A++ Score
2. Elite Synergy A+ Score
3. Hoyt Nitrum A- Score

Noise/vibration:

1. Mathews No Cam A+ score
2. Elite Synergy A score
3. Hoyt Nitrum A- score

Speed:

1. Hoyt Nitrum A+
2. Mathews No Cam A- Tie
2. Elite Synergy A- Tie

Accuracy:

1. Mathews No Cam A
2. Elite Synergy A
3. Hoyt Nitrum A-

I went to Elite this year because I believe they are the smoothest shooting bows on the market. I do not care about speed, I am a hunter first and want the easiest drawing, quietest most accurate bow out there for hunting and I believe the Elite is it, until now.

The Mathews No Cam I shot was 65# dw at 28" DL. The Hoyt Nitrum and the Elite Synergy were 60# dw and 28" dl. The No Cam is the smoothest, easiest pulling bow I have drawn in my life. If I didn't know it was set at 65# I would have thought it was 55# and it was set at the 85% let off. I cant explain it you have to shoot it. It was also the quietest bow I have ever shot, this bow does not make a sound and there is absolutely ZERO vibration. It is not a barn burner but I don't care about speed. This is the ultimate hunting bow.

The Synergy is also an awesome bow. The draw cycle is incredible, not as easy as the No Cam but better than the Energy 32 and 35. The bow holds amazingly well. Not as quiet as the No Cam but still super quiet and a little vib but not much at all. Typical Elite valley and back wall.

The Hoyt Nitrum, fast, pretty quiet, hardest drawing of the 3 but still a nice shooter. I would take the Synergy or the No Cam over it any day of the week, no comparison.

Again the No Cam was 5# heavier on DW than both bows and it felt 10# lighter. I normally shoot all my bows at 60#dw. I could shoot the No Cam at 70# easier than both at 60#. The No Cam's valley is different as well. It is not an Elite valley but You don't need it with the No Cam. When you are at full draw you can hold this bow all day and it does not want to go. Even if you let up on it when it comes out of the valley it comes out super soft/smooth. I cannot describe this Bow other than you have to shoot it to understand it. I now that my new bow is going to be the No Cam. This No Cam is the best shooting bow I have ever shot. I really love the Elites but this No Cam is on another level.

I will say all three bows are awesome and you cant go wrong with any of them, but the Mathews No Cam has changed archery. I believe the riser/cam design is revolutionary!


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## goodoleboy11 (Apr 23, 2013)

I do agree with you. It is one hell of a bow. However I feel like the draw cycle is not the best! Weird. I have only shot it after shoulder and chest and tricep day at the gym, so I need to shoot it with fresh muscles.


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## markman (Apr 14, 2007)

goodoleboy11 said:


> I do agree with you. It is one hell of a bow. However I feel like the draw cycle is not the best! Weird. I have only shot it after shoulder and chest and tricep day at the gym, so I need to shoot it with fresh muscles.


That is weird because I could not believe how easy the draw cycle was. I never felt anything like it. My Energy is set at 61# and the No Cam at 65# was way easier to draw. Also my normal DL is 27.5" and this bow was a 1/2# too long and still way easier.


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## goodoleboy11 (Apr 23, 2013)

markman said:


> That is weird because I could not believe how easy the draw cycle was. I never felt anything like it. My Energy is set at 61# and the No Cam at 65# was way easier to draw. Also my normal DL is 27.5" and this bow was a 1/2# too long and still way easier.


Really? I just need to shoot it again. I've spent a ton of time with it, but I was sore from workouts. Other bows like the chill x and even creed xs seemed smoother to me. The way this bow performed in every other category though was nothing short of stellar.


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## ThaTank (Oct 3, 2014)

Really nice review man. What nitrum were you shooting tho?

Also, my biggest question to you is how did you test accuracy?


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## markman (Apr 14, 2007)

Nitrum 32. Accuracy was just how the arrows stacked in groups when shot with no sights. I was hitting arrows together with no sights on the No Cam. Just a raw review.


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## deadduck357 (Dec 29, 2013)

I was really impressed while shooting the HTR. Good to read more positive experiences. Hope I can try a 60# with 75% mods soon.


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## mzy05858 (Jun 20, 2014)

Havent shot the mathews yet but shot an energy 35 today and felt that was the most shootable bow I ever shot. I'll have to try the mathews though, it sounds pretty amazing.


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## bowhuntermitch (May 17, 2005)

How did you rank accuracy? Also, the Mathews didn't make ANY noise? I have a tough time believing that.


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## catkinson (Jul 17, 2007)

It will be an awesome finger bow for finger shooters, just cant afford it.


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## Bryden Kinniard (Aug 12, 2014)

Just don't tell the boys at Fin you like the Mathews they get a little testy. All in good fun with them tho.


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## 4IDARCHER (Jul 1, 2006)

I didn't do well with the draw cycle either. I can't explain it, I really liked the draw of the sext, dren and DXT but just like the HTR's cycle. It felt like the weight kicked in about 1/2 way through very quickly. Just didn't mix with my shoulder well. Other then that it was an awesome bow.


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## markman (Apr 14, 2007)

Bryden Kinniard said:


> Just don't tell the boys at Fin you like the Mathews they get a little testy. All in good fun with them tho.


Yea I could tell they are Hoyt guys, nice guys though!

Three of us shot the No Cam and all three could not believe we were drawing 65#. Absolutely no hump, smooth pull all the way back. As far as noise, all you can hear is the arrow hitting the target. I can't wait for someone to put this bow on a decm and you will see how quiet this bow is.


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## AK&HIboy (Mar 6, 2008)

goodoleboy11 said:


> Really? I just need to shoot it again. I've spent a ton of time with it, but I was sore from workouts. Other bows like the chill x and even creed xs seemed smoother to me. The way this bow performed in every other category though was nothing short of stellar.


Draw is the most subjective individual aspect of a bow per individual. Not a bash but draw is very subjective individually. What i like or you or anywho varies drastically. I think me only lol it's what we/you are accustomed too.Yes after a few long sessions it changes, muscle memory and repetition gets muscles used to a certain draw curve.I know every new bow i try feel stiffer the first 20 or more shots due to a "new draw".Then after the initial new draw sets in i can feel if i like or dislike the draw.


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## AK&HIboy (Mar 6, 2008)

goodolboy11 try it after 'leg day'! Lol


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## Cdcj (Mar 14, 2007)

I was not crazy about the draw cycle of the "No Cam". I thought every solo cam Mathews that I have shot since the Switchback draw much smoother. It was pretty dead and quiet on the shot. Balanced really well. But, my shoulder was hurting after 3 shots on 65 lbs. Other guys at the shop said the same. Draw is very subjective but I like the draw of the new Chills much better.


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## Ryjax (Mar 3, 2014)

bowhuntermitch said:


> How did you rank accuracy? Also, the Mathews didn't make ANY noise? I have a tough time believing that.


You need to go shoot it. It really is the quietest most vibration free bow I've ever shot.


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## AZSpaniol (May 6, 2012)

Cdcj said:


> I was not crazy about the draw cycle of the "No Cam". I thought every solo cam Mathews that I have shot since the Switchback draw much smoother. It was pretty dead and quiet on the shot. Balanced really well. But, my shoulder was hurting after 3 shots on 65 lbs. Other guys at the shop said the same. Draw is very subjective but I like the draw of the new Chills much better.


I agree with this the most. Although a draw cycle is subjective, I felt the HTR was very stiff. It holds great tho and is completely vibe free. I can't justify getting rid of my HeliM for it. The Chill X is a different story.


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## jewalker7842 (Aug 15, 2011)

I really need to go shoot this bow this weekend at the shop if I have time.


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## 02transam (Nov 14, 2013)

All this smoothness, no hump, easy draw cycle talk makes archery hunters sound like a bunch of damn sissies. lol

If you dont care about speed, get any bow with 50 lb limbs and a tampon. 

With that being said, I shot the no cam and didn't really care for it. When I first shot it I thought a miracle would take place. I was kind of bumbed when the arrow just hit the target.


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## goodoleboy11 (Apr 23, 2013)

AK&HIboy said:


> goodolboy11 try it after 'leg day'! Lol


Lol I'm gonna have to!


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## force1 (Jul 14, 2004)

The no cam is wierd when you start to getting used to it, it starts getting smoother. This bow is very quiet , and I was testing accuracy myself at 28 inch draw and im a 30, shooting at a vegas target at 20 yards and this thing is very accurate, when I shoot it I get a sense that I could score very well with it, especially when I hardly missed the x at 2 inches short draw length. It pry would be better with 75% letoff so it doesnt dump so hard into valley though.


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## Carl (Feb 5, 2003)

I went into shop to shoot the new Nitrum 34 by Hoyt. After I shoot it, the dealer asked me if I wanted to shoot the new Matthews N0 Cam (I am more of a Hoyt guy) I kinda laughed said sure why not. I was totally impressed with the No cams smooth draw and how quite and dead it was on the shot , aimed great too. Not the fastest bow but it definitely quieter and had less vibs than the Hoyt I had just shot. Very easy to pull back and hold. I have read some the guys on here talking about the No Cam having a hard draw cycle?? I can only think that the bow they were shooting must of been shooting one that was way out of tune. The No Cam impressed me and I am not a Mathews fan.


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## mzy05858 (Jun 20, 2014)

02transam said:


> All this smoothness, no hump, easy draw cycle talk makes archery hunters sound like a bunch of damn sissies. lol
> 
> If you dont care about speed, get any bow with 50 lb limbs and a tampon.
> 
> With that being said, I shot the no cam and didn't really care for it. When I first shot it I thought a miracle would take place. I was kind of bumbed when the arrow just hit the target.


Made me laugh. Thanks


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## Mr. October (Feb 15, 2003)

goodoleboy11 said:


> I do agree with you. It is one hell of a bow. However I feel like the draw cycle is not the best! Weird. I have only shot it after shoulder and chest and tricep day at the gym, so I need to shoot it with fresh muscles.


Draw cycle is something that is VERY subjective. That is why people need to try before they buy. I really, really, really wanted to like the Prime last year when I was bow shopping. I liked the look of the bow, and I liked their replacement string policy. But when I shot it I found it to be a terrible (to me) feeling draw.


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## mzy05858 (Jun 20, 2014)

Mr. October said:


> Draw cycle is something that is VERY subjective. That is why people need to try before they buy. I really, really, really wanted to like the Prime last year when I was bow shopping. I liked the look of the bow, and I liked their replacement string policy. But when I shot it I found it to be a terrible (to me) feeling draw.


 I agree that shooter's preferences can be very different from each other. Yesterday while I was test shooting new bows, I met two guys from different shops that prefer an aggressive draw over a relaxing smooth draw. One of them told me the draw of the e35 felt weird, but when I shot it I was instantly in love. I've met this type of shooter before, and while I don't understand it, I realize that is what they are used to and comfortable with. So I agree that draw cycle is very subjective and can be influenced by a shooter's history, shooting style, age, need for speed, accuracy, back tension, and possibly a dozen other factors.


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## Arrcon (Feb 24, 2013)

O2transam u said it brother. I'm not the biggest or strongest guy. I do shoot seventy pounds with no problems though. For me the draw cycle is about the least important thing in picking a bow. To me how steady the bow holds at draw, the valley, how easy is it to tune, the grip. These things are much more important to me. To me these things help define how accurate I will be with the bow. To each his own I guess but to me the draw cycle is just not a big deal. And I do shoot a lot I'm just a hunter and don't compete so I might not shoot as much as some on at but I shoot all year. I just don't understand sometimes


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## Mr. October (Feb 15, 2003)

Arrcon said:


> O2transam u said it brother. I'm not the biggest or strongest guy. I do shoot seventy pounds with no problems though. For me the draw cycle is about the least important thing in picking a bow. To me how steady the bow holds at draw, the valley, how easy is it to tune, the grip. These things are much more important to me. To me these things help define how accurate I will be with the bow. To each his own I guess but to me the draw cycle is just not a big deal. And I do shoot a lot I'm just a hunter and don't compete so I might not shoot as much as some on at but I shoot all year. I just don't understand sometimes


I'm the opposite. As a hunter, to me the draw cycle has to be smooth, and easy to control since drawing on an animal is the trickiest part of the whole thing. I haven't shot a bow in a long time that I would consider unsteady at full draw.


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## MonsterElk6X6 (Mar 4, 2012)

Great review! I thought the same thing between the turbo and the No Cam. Lol and thats why I have one on order! Still want to shoot the synergy though.


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## Mathias (Mar 21, 2005)

Great write up, thanks for sharing. I think I understand your accuracy findings. When I'm shooting a couple contenders trying to decide, I go with the one that groups well instinctively for me.
The HTR sure sounds like a great hunting, backyard bow, I look forward to testing one myself.


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## razortusk (Dec 23, 2009)

goodoleboy11 said:


> Really? I just need to shoot it again. I've spent a ton of time with it, but I was sore from workouts. Other bows like the chill x and even creed xs seemed smoother to me. The way this bow performed in every other category though was nothing short of stellar.


I don't normally agree with your post but we agree here! I shot Mathews for years moved over to Hoyt when the Carbons came out. I shot a ChillR and wanted one last year but decided to wait to see what Mathews came out with this year. I was excited about the No Cam. I have made two trips to my local Pro Shop and I have spent lots of time with a ChillX, ChillR and the HTR. The HTR is the quietest bow and least amount of hand shock bow that I have ever shot but I didn't care for the draw cycle. I went the second trip planning to make myself like the HTR after reading reviews but just can't. I plan on getting a ChillR or ChillX can't decide which. The ChillX to me was the best of the 3 but I stand hunt so I can't decide between the ChillX and R because of ATA length.

That is the reason they make different models. I have bow hunted since the late seventies and have shot a lot of bows during this period of time. The HTR has a different draw cycle then anything I have ever shot! some will love it! some will hate it! and I respect and understand that! I personally like the draw cycle on the Chill's with roc mods better. Could be that I have shot so long they are closer to what I'm accustomed to shooting over the years.

I have shoulder problems and expected the HTR to be the perfect bow for me. The most comfortable weight for me on the HTR was 58 lbs. The ChillX was 67lb. and the ChillR was 65lb with roc mods. I spent lots of time adjusting weight to find the sweet spot on each bow that didn't make my shoulders hurt. All roc mods were 85% let off.

I have owned Elites and they have a nice draw cycles that are shouler friendly but don't like the weight of the bow after I put accessories on them.


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## Daniel75 (Jul 11, 2010)

bowhuntermitch said:


> How did you rank accuracy? Also, the Mathews didn't make ANY noise? I have a tough time believing that.


Believe it! Look at my feedback, I have owned and sold a lot of different brands: Bowtech, Hoyt, Elite, Mathews, PSE and Bear, this HTR is THE quietest bow I've ever shot. It is on another level.


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## goodoleboy11 (Apr 23, 2013)

razortusk said:


> I don't normally agree with your post but we agree here! I shot Mathews for years moved over to Hoyt when the Carbons came out. I shot a ChillR and wanted one last year but decided to wait to see what Mathews came out with this year. I was excited about the No Cam. I have made two trips to my local Pro Shop and I have spent lots of time with a ChillX, ChillR and the HTR. The HTR is the quietest bow and least amount of hand shock bow that I have ever shot but I didn't care for the draw cycle. I went the second trip planning to make myself like the HTR after reading reviews but just can't. I plan on getting a ChillR or ChillX can't decide which. The ChillX to me was the best of the 3 but I stand hunt so I can't decide between the ChillX and R because of ATA length.
> 
> That is the reason they make different models. I have bow hunted since the late seventies and have shot a lot of bows during this period of time. The HTR has a different draw cycle then anything I have ever shot! some will love it! some will hate it! and I respect and understand that! I personally like the draw cycle on the Chill's with roc mods better. Could be that I have shot so long they are closer to what I'm accustomed to shooting over the years.
> 
> ...


The htr has a different draw cycle. It's peak weight doesn't come until way late in the cycle when typically any other bow peak weight is up front. I've narrowed it to chill x or e35. Tough decision


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## Mathews4ever (Jan 13, 2007)

I shot both of these bows as well and I thought that the synergy was a smoother draw but absolutely love the no cam and i haven't liked Mathews for a long time


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## markman (Apr 14, 2007)

One of my buddy's that was with me has a Mathews Heli-m. I drew his bow and it was no where near as easy to draw as the No Cam for me. Also his Heli-m had almost no valley and wanted to go if you barely let up on it. Not sure the difference in opinions on the draw cycle of the No Cam. Maybe some are set up different or the let off was different. The one I shot had the 85% let off mods in it. I know draw cycle is subjective to a point, but some bows draw harsher than others at the same DW just a fact! Again for me, I want a smooth, easy to draw hunting bow. I hunt in NY where it gets cold and you get stiff in a tree sitting all day. The Synergy and the No Cam for me are hands down the best drawing bows I have ever shot in 30yrs of shooting bows.


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## BtwchInvasion (Mar 16, 2014)

Mathews4ever said:


> I shot both of these bows as well and I thought that the synergy was a smoother draw but absolutely love the no cam and i haven't liked Mathews for a long time


Really mathews4ever you haven't liked Mathews for awhile??


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## Mathews4ever (Jan 13, 2007)

BtwchInvasion said:


> Really mathews4ever you haven't liked Mathews for awhile??


Nope it's just a hassle to change user names I made this account a long time ago when I was young and not as wise


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## ElkFetish (Aug 12, 2007)

Did you chrono the 3 bows? I have a hard time giving the nod to the no cam for vibe, noise, and draw cycle when from what I've read so far it will be the slowest of all three bows, especially with the 85% mod on it. Speed makes a big difference in those 3 categories IMO.


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## stehawk (Aug 28, 2004)

Its great that Mathews worked so hard on a bow and try to catch up to the Elite bows. Its a great thing for the industry.


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## Mathias (Mar 21, 2005)

stehawk said:


> Its great that Mathews worked so hard on a bow and *try to catch up to the Elite bows*. Its a great thing for the industry.


that's hilarious.


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## Ault (Mar 29, 2011)

4IDARCHER said:


> I didn't do well with the draw cycle either. I can't explain it, I really liked the draw of the sext, dren and DXT but just like the HTR's cycle. It felt like the weight kicked in about 1/2 way through very quickly. Just didn't mix with my shoulder well. Other then that it was an awesome bow.


I totally agree here. It is a great bow but so is the nitrum, synergy, prodigy and decree for 2015. To me the draw cycle was something anyone would have to get used to period. I shot the HTR 28/67 for about 2 hours and started to like it... Then I went out and shot my Helim @27.5/65 and on the first couple draws I was flying into the back wall. My helim and all solocams still seem to be my favorite draw cycle. Also as every bow in a 6-7" BH is smooth to me but the ease of pulling goes to solos and elite bianarys.


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## markman (Apr 14, 2007)

No I didn't chrono the bows, the No Cam was for sure the slowest of the three, but it was by far the quietest, smoothest and vibration free of the three.


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## Mathews4ever (Jan 13, 2007)

I think the no cam was faster and every bit as quiet as the synergy the one I shot had Rock mods with 85% let off I hunt Vt every bit as cold as NY


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## vince71969 (Apr 17, 2004)

AK&HIboy said:


> Draw is the most subjective individual aspect of a bow per individual. Not a bash but draw is very subjective individually. What i like or you or anywho varies drastically. I think me only lol it's what we/you are accustomed too.Yes after a few long sessions it changes, muscle memory and repetition gets muscles used to a certain draw curve.I know every new bow i try feel stiffer the first 20 or more shots due to a "new draw".Then after the initial new draw sets in i can feel if i like or dislike the draw.


Yes and no. 

What type of a draw a person prefers is very subjective but the actual draw cycle of any bow isn't. How an individual perceives the bow and or maker often has influence over their findings. 

For example:

A bow can have a draw cycle that's very gradual in building peak weight and you'll still find many people who tell everyone that they're stiff right from the get go. And vice versa. For the most part, these people mean well. Some just really don't know what they're testing. 

That's why i always tell people to shoot as many bows as you can and decide for yourself. Everyone makes a great product so whatever you choose personally will be the correct selection.


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## MIKEY CUSTOM-G (Oct 5, 2002)

Wow this is wild. My older brother shot the no cam and basically said the opposite. 

Bow was top heavy, felt like it was 20 pounds heavier draw then it was, stacked up real quick and fell off but was typical Mathews quiet, no vibe , no hand shock.


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## boonecoon (Oct 27, 2008)

Very similar review to how I would have rated the three when I shot them last thursday. I still prefer the draw cycle of the Elite, not a big fan of how the HTR stacks 50% of the way back. Thought they were very similar in shot feel and noise, but the HTR is the most well balanced hunting bow I have shot. Wish I wouldve paid more attention to cable clearance and all the mechanics instead of just shooting though


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## LetThemGrow (Apr 2, 2004)

MIKEY CUSTOM-G said:


> Wow this is wild. My older brother shot the no cam and basically said the opposite.
> 
> Bow was top heavy, felt like it was 20 pounds heavier draw then it was, stacked up real quick and fell off but was typical Mathews quiet, no vibe , no hand shock.


When someone says 20# heavier than actual I discard everything they say...


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## AK&HIboy (Mar 6, 2008)

goodoleboy11 said:


> The htr has a different draw cycle. It's peak weight doesn't come until way late in the cycle when typically any other bow peak weight is up front. I've narrowed it to chill x or e35. Tough decision


Owned a e35 and shot the X multiple times.E35 drew easier and held better with a more solid wall and bigger valley, i wanted a X at the time but my E35 beat it in every way imo . Both great but the e35 hands down in every category for me personally.


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## goodoleboy11 (Apr 23, 2013)

AK&HIboy said:


> Owned a e35 and shot the X multiple times.E35 drew easier and held better with a more solid wall and b8gger valley, i wanted a X at the time but my E35 beat it in every way imo . Both great but the e35 hands down in every category for me personally.


I've shot both, haven't shot the e35 since January though. So I need to shoot it again before I decide. So far I'm leaning towards the energy


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## SCFox (Dec 11, 2005)

LetThemGrow said:


> When someone says 20# heavier than actual I discard everything they say...


....and top heavy? That bow just sits there. No movement. 

SCFox


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## cleaver (Oct 18, 2012)

This Mathews No Cam Is the most disputed bow Ive ever read about. I shot it today and thought it was the best hunting bow Ive ever shot. It was set at 62lbs and 29" draw. It felt like pulling around 57lbs. No vibration at all from the shot. NONE. The quietest bow ive ever heard. You cant hear the bow shoot if your shooting withing 10 yards of a target. The arrow hitting the target drowns it all out. I couldnt hear the bow at all and thats no exaggeration. I think it has a very silky draw cycle. So easy to handle. Some guys are saying theres no hump though. Theres a hump just like any other bow but the hump is way easier to get over and once you get over the hump its very very manageable all the way to the back wall.. I had my mind made up to get a hoyt Nitrum but I just cant do it now. Ill more than likely be shooting the mathews. I dont play favorites with these bows. I shoot whichever brand has the best bow for me and it seems like this is it. Just go and shoot it


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## huntinhoyt (Oct 16, 2012)

Just for fun I went out today and shot the Hoyt Nitrum 30, Obsession evolution and the matthews no cam. I have been toying with the idea of getting a new bow as I currently shoot a Carbon Matrix rkt (it's not the fastest either). Bows were set at 70lbs at 29 inches. The Nitrum drew fine, a bit stiffer up front and less "break over or hump" if you will. The Obsession drew similar to the Hoyt with a bit more break over, not bad though. The no cam did have a detectable break over near the end of the draw, but once I got used to it, it was not bad, just not my first choice. Holding the Obsession was super easy, on the shot it had the most "vibe". The Hoyt held nice as well I did feel that I was holding more due to the let off being 75%. The shot was nice and it had less vibe than the Obsession. The no cam held similar to the other two but on the shot, the thing was just dead. No vibe at all, it just sat there on the shot. My carbon matrix rkt did not feel this dead in the hand. I was impressed with the no cam on the shot. I only elk hunt and I am looking to get a bow with more speed in order to shoot a heavy arrow (480 to 525 grn) and still be in the 280 plus fps range. I had the shop tech shoot the no cam through the chrono. 30 inch easton axis arrow with a 50 grn brass insert, three blazers, total arrow weight 489 grains (weighed). The no cam set at 70 lbs at a 29 inch draw sent that arrow 263 fps. I did not have time to do the same with the other two bows. I am not any closer to choosing a bow, I want to shoot the new hoyt turbo cam just to compare. By far I liked the matthews on the shot better than the other two,I just would like to add 20 fps with that arrow weight.


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## highangle5 (Feb 1, 2014)

I would agree! Couldn't have put it better.


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## stehawk (Aug 28, 2004)

Its great that Mathews finally came up with a dual cam bow thats feels almost as good as the Elite bows-----slower but good. :darkbeer:


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## MIKEY CUSTOM-G (Oct 5, 2002)

Mathews if nothing else has mastered the no kick, no vibe bow.


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## LetThemGrow (Apr 2, 2004)

MIKEY CUSTOM-G said:


> Mathews if nothing else has mastered the no kick, no vibe bow.


Totally agree. I was very impressed with that aspect.


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## stehawk (Aug 28, 2004)

MIKEY CUSTOM-G said:


> Mathews if nothing else has mastered the no kick, no vibe bow.


They've done well trying to catch up to ELite. Nonetheless, I just had a customer try out the E35 and synergy this past tuesday. He went to the Mathew dealer and shot the new mathews that same day. I took his order for a new E35 yesterday because he says the Elite is much better in all aspects. Different strokes for different folks for sure. :darkbeer:


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## paarchhntr (Dec 21, 2005)

stehawk said:


> They've done well trying to catch up to ELite. Nonetheless, I just had a customer try out the E35 and synergy this past tuesday. He went to the Mathew dealer and shot the new mathews that same day. I took his order for a new E35 yesterday because he says the Elite is much better in all aspects. Different strokes for different folks for sure. :darkbeer:


Thanks for your useless information and trolling. It speaks volumes about a dealer when they get on threads and bash bow brands.


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## stehawk (Aug 28, 2004)

paarchhntr said:


> Thanks for your useless information and trolling. It speaks volumes about a dealer when they get on threads and bash bow brands.



Bash bow brands? That story is the truth so if the truth hurts I feel for ya. The thread is comparing the Mathews no cam and Elite synergy-------sorry you got so butt hurt over the truth.


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## Irish66 (Feb 11, 2007)

stehawk said:


> Bash bow brands? That story is the truth so if the truth hurts I feel for ya. The thread is comparing the Mathews no cam and Elite synergy-------sorry you got so butt hurt over the truth.


Lol. We need to have a blindfold tournament for like 10 bows and say 100 shooters and see the real results of the overall "feel" of each bow


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## paarchhntr (Dec 21, 2005)

stehawk said:


> Bash bow brands? That story is the truth so if the truth hurts I feel for ya. The thread is comparing the Mathews no cam and Elite synergy-------sorry you got so butt hurt over the truth.


You have already stated that you personally have not shot the Mathews "slowmocam" but yet you come on this thread spewing how Mathews "almost" made a bow as smooth as Elites?

How do you make this assumption when you haven't personally shot the No Cam? How do you compare something when you have not even handled one of the bows?

Keep going because your losing more credibility by each post. I feel bad for your customers.

FYI Im not a fanboy, I do not own either brand bow and haven't owned a Mathews since the days of the LX but I have owned a couple Elites in the recent years.


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## ElkFetish (Aug 12, 2007)

trucker3573 said:


> Shot both today. These bows are almost dead even. I have been a huge elite fan and mathews hater for several years. Eating crow...The HTR gets the nod. That bow is so damn smooth on draw and at the shot. Super impressive. The shop I shot it at said they set it to 70 30 with a 350 gr arrow and got 318 fps. Right there where it should be. If they made this bow in just a bit longer version it would have been ordered.


I just keep thinking if all other bows were set to shoot at 318 fps IBO that most other bow brands would be right in there for smoothness, vibe, quietness, etc. I'm not knocking the HTR just trying to hear apple to apple comparisons and a bow that is that much slower than anything else it's competing against seems to have a significant advantage in the "feel" department. Maybe I'm missing something.


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## mzy05858 (Jun 20, 2014)

AK&HIboy said:


> Owned a e35 and shot the X multiple times.E35 drew easier and held better with a more solid wall and bigger valley, i wanted a X at the time but my E35 beat it in every way imo . Both great but the e35 hands down in every category for me personally.


Shop I went to recently didn't have the X but did have an E35 which I shot and loved. I will try and shoot the X in the near future, but I'm pretty much sold on the E35 at this point.


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## ridgehunter70 (Sep 30, 2012)

Daniel75 said:


> Believe it! Look at my feedback, I have owned and sold a lot of different brands: Bowtech, Hoyt, Elite, Mathews, PSE and Bear, this HTR is THE quietest bow I've ever shot. It is on another level.


Ive gotta agree. This bow is in another level of being quiet and shock free.


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## ElkFetish (Aug 12, 2007)

trucker3573 said:


> No you are exactly right. It 100 percent depends on what you are looking for in a bow. If you don't mind sacrificing a little bit of the feel for the speed then I get where you are coming from. I just have personally completely drifted toward the feel end. Today I shot the bear arena 34, elite synergy, prime ion, prime alloy and the mathews HTR. I liked the synergy and HTR the most by far. My least favorite was the bear. It had very little valley and seemed to want to jump forward very easy. The prime pcx cam (alloy) doesn't have an overly generous valley either but didn't have that take off feel of the bear. The ion with the pcxl cam has a nice generous valley. It is an improvement over the pcx to me but the bow had a weird vibe that you literally felt top to bottom. Anyway, sorry for going off on a tangent, the HTR is the bow this year for smoothness.


Thanks for the explanation.

The Prime bows are a sweet setup but one thing I have found is that if they aren't tuned right the dual cam will produce some vibe. Get it tuned up right though and they are NICE!


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## vince71969 (Apr 17, 2004)

ElkFetish said:


> I just keep thinking if all other bows were set to shoot at 318 fps IBO that most other bow brands would be right in there for smoothness, vibe, quietness, etc. I'm not knocking the HTR just trying to hear apple to apple comparisons and a bow that is that much slower than anything else it's competing against seems to have a significant advantage in the "feel" department. Maybe I'm missing something.


Yes and no. For the most part you're correct, but you'll still have some manufacturers that'll offer a more stable or quieter or more efficient shooting platform just from engineering alone while others will have to rely on a slightly more aggressive draw force curve to obtain the same results.


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## KiwiMaoriBoii69 (Jan 30, 2011)

mzy05858 said:


> Made me laugh. Thanks


Have to agree ...was pretty damn funny!


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## KiwiMaoriBoii69 (Jan 30, 2011)

Daniel75 said:


> Believe it! Look at my feedback, I have owned and sold a lot of different brands: Bowtech, Hoyt, Elite, Mathews, PSE and Bear, this HTR is THE quietest bow I've ever shot. It is on another level.


Hmmm ...i think what he was accentuating was the "Any" noise ...there has to be some kind of noise hitting the string stop even tho it may be the "quietest" the decibel reader would read "zero" and that I feel would be impossible, and if the decibel recorder did in fact read "zero" that would truly be revolutionary! ...


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## Daniel75 (Jul 11, 2010)

KiwiMaoriBoii69 said:


> Hmmm ...i think what he was accentuating was the "Any" noise ...there has to be some kind of noise hitting the string stop even tho it may be the "quietest" the decibel reader would read "zero" and that I feel would be impossible, and if the decibel recorder did in fact read "zero" that would truly be revolutionary! ...


I didn't say it was dead silent. I just mean that it's the quietest bow I've ever shot, hands down, that's all.


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## ElkFetish (Aug 12, 2007)

vince71969 said:


> Yes and no. For the most part you're correct, but you'll still have some manufacturers that'll offer a more stable or quieter or more efficient shooting platform just from engineering alone while others will have to rely on a slightly more aggressive draw force curve to obtain the same results.


I understand that concept but I don't think that applies when we are talking about Elite and other "feel" type bows and Elite has a more reflexed riser which typically is harder to obtain quietness and vibe free effects. As an additional example. Take a similar neutral reflexed riser like the HTR, say maybe the Bowtech Experience and set it to shoot 318 FPS and I have a hard time thinking that you aren't going to have a very smooth, quiet, and vibe free bow. I would guess better than the HTR but that is pure speculation. I would also guess that the obsession Evo or Phoenix set at that speed would be crazy quiet and vibe free. Can you imagine an Evo or Pheonix shooting that speed because of a heavier arrow to slow it down instead of just dropping weight or maybe even a combo of weight drop and arrow weight increase. Again, speculation but SILENT and SMOOTH as butter is my educated guess. They are already that now. 

Again, not bashing. Like someone else mentioned, how fun would it be to have 100 At'ers be able to shoot all the top 20-30 bows along with running them through some DFC testing etc. Would be fun to participate in or read about


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## vince71969 (Apr 17, 2004)

ElkFetish said:


> I understand that concept but I don't think that applies when we are talking about Elite and other "feel" type bows and Elite has a more reflexed riser which typically is harder to obtain quietness and vibe free effects. As an additional example. Take a similar neutral reflexed riser like the HTR, say maybe the Bowtech Experience and set it to shoot 318 FPS and I have a hard time thinking that you aren't going to have a very smooth, quiet, and vibe free bow. I would guess better than the HTR but that is pure speculation. I would also guess that the obsession Evo or Phoenix set at that speed would be crazy quiet and vibe free. Can you imagine an Evo or Pheonix shooting that speed because of a heavier arrow to slow it down instead of just dropping weight or maybe even a combo of weight drop and arrow weight increase. Again, speculation but SILENT and SMOOTH as butter is my educated guess. They are already that now.
> 
> Again, not bashing. Like someone else mentioned, how fun would it be to have 100 At'ers be able to shoot all the top 20-30 bows along with running them through some DFC testing etc. Would be fun to participate in or read about


Actually what I'm saying does apply. Two of the quietest bows I've ever tested for noise levels both had reflexed risers.


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## KiwiMaoriBoii69 (Jan 30, 2011)

Daniel75 said:


> I didn't say it was dead silent. I just mean that it's the quietest bow I've ever shot, hands down, that's all.


Yea I know champ ...just the statement of "Any noise" can translate to dead silent even though you weren't meaning it that way bud bowhuntermitch was just questioning the specifics of that statement but truly understand where you are coming from!


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## fletched (May 10, 2006)

ElkFetish said:


> I just keep thinking if all other bows were set to shoot at 318 fps IBO that most other bow brands would be right in there for smoothness, vibe, quietness, etc. I'm not knocking the HTR just trying to hear apple to apple comparisons and a bow that is that much slower than anything else it's competing against seems to have a significant advantage in the "feel" department. Maybe I'm missing something.


You make a great point that most people overlook. There is always a trade off. Faster bows have a more aggressive draw cycle and slower bows have a smoother draw cycle. The only true way to compare bows equally is set them up at the same speed. A faster bows needs less poundage to obtain the same speed so it may feel smoother than a slower bow at higher poundage. Feel, vibration and noise will be different if compared at the same speed as well.


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## B3AV3R (Apr 19, 2006)

The HTR is the real deal. I'm about as far from a Mathews fanboy as one can be and this bow has me interested. Its just a pleasure to shoot.


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## Dabo72 (Jul 1, 2008)

paarchhntr said:


> Thanks for your useless information and trolling. It speaks volumes about a dealer when they get on threads and bash bow brands.


Amen!!


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## stehawk (Aug 28, 2004)

Irish66 said:


> Lol. We need to have a blindfold tournament for like 10 bows and say 100 shooters and see the real results of the overall "feel" of each bow


I think that would be awesome idea. I'd like to see and know the results and I bet I wouldn't get butt hurt regardless which was rated the best overall.:wink: If the No Cam improves the Mathews sales then maybe they can hire back the 35 full time employees they let go last month----who knows.


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## stehawk (Aug 28, 2004)

Dabo72 said:


> Amen!!


Another fanboy with a hurt butt.:darkbeer:


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## stehawk (Aug 28, 2004)

fletched said:


> You make a great point that most people overlook. There is always a trade off. Faster bows have a more aggressive draw cycle and slower bows have a smoother draw cycle. The only true way to compare bows equally is set them up at the same speed. A faster bows needs less poundage to obtain the same speed so it may feel smoother than a slower bow at higher poundage. Feel, vibration and noise will be different if compared at the same speed as well.


Great point that I happen to agree with. Well said!


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## paarchhntr (Dec 21, 2005)

stehawk said:


> Another fanboy with a hurt butt.:darkbeer:


I think someone else is butt hurt because Mathews denied their dealer app. :wink:


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## stehawk (Aug 28, 2004)

paarchhntr said:


> I think someone else is butt hurt because Mathews denied their dealer app. :wink:


 You are funny I gotta say that for you. And, FYI I won't be shooting Elite nor Mathews this year. LIke I said earlier, theres different strokes for different folks. I would however love to have a new NO Cam if you'd buy and send me one. I'm getting too old to shoot speed bows with harsh draw cycles that vibrate my teeth. :rock-on:


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## Arrow Smith (May 17, 2005)

I am very bow promiscuous! I try everything at least once lol. My friends make fun of me because I change bows like I change clothes. I shot the no cam for an hour the other day. It felt very different but I couldn't put it down! All the reviews about draw cycle, poundage, are all true it's great! Here is my favorite part. It hits hard. I shot range arrows different types, lenghths etc. I know the kenetic energy formula and speed is twice the factor compared to weight. But this bow seems to transfer the energy to the arrow better. Very nice bow! Feels awesome. Bow hunter first, and this bow fits that niche! Quiet, easy to draw, Quiet, accurate, feels balanced in hand. I'm gonna have me one of those!


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## alpinespider (Oct 15, 2012)

Just a quick rant about a comment early in this thread saying the HTR is so quiet all you hear is the arrow hitting the target. I get really annoyed by this statement for this bow and many other bows over the years. Seriously, I have watched many videos of the HTR and other bows and I can always hear them at the shot. A string and bow parts moving at 300fps are always going to make some noise unless you are shooting in a vacuum. I realize that saying all you can hear is the arrow hitting the target is hopefully just hyperbole, but if anyone is serious about that statement please have your hearing checked. Why not just say this is the quietest bow I have ever shot.....


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## BowhunterCliffy (Feb 19, 2007)

Myself and a close friend went last week to shoot as many new bows as we could, (he is looking to buy), shot the NO Cam HTR with the Synergy/ the Prodigy and the Carbon Spyder all 4 set at 60 lbs. all 4 at 29" draw.
Both of us felt the No Cam was the stiffest at that poundage of all 4 bows. The No Cam was not hard to pull back, but _in comparison_ to the other 3, it was the stiffest to pull and actually it was noticeably stiffer when compared specifically to the Elite Synergy.(Flame away Mathews fans) Both of us felt that the Synergy was the smoothest and easiest to draw of the 4. 
All 4 were very similar regarding noise, all very little to none, very little vibe in all 4 as well.

For what its worth, neither of us have ever owned an Elite, however I have owned several Mathews bows. 
We have no attachment to either Mathews, Elite, Bowtech or Hoyt or any other brand. Right now I own 3 Primes actually.
So take my thoughts for an unbiased _opinion_, just our _opinion_.

My friend also shot the Hoyt Charger and he liked that as much or more than the other 4. Looks like he is going to buy the Charger.


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## REDARROW7 (Mar 6, 2011)

Bryden Kinniard said:


> Just don't tell the boys at Fin you like the Mathews they get a little testy. All in good fun with them tho.


The fin is over rated I live by it , don't worry about the boys they have been hoyt brainwashed , they know me well, and also know I usually shoot both hoyt and mathews , I will always favor my element in the woods and my mathews for splitting arrows, I do enjoy the final though to see the boys and bust thier chops every once in a while, high prices to pay for too many employees , I do prefer to by my new bows elsewhere to help keep the smaller archery shops open


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## jlsmith1000 (Nov 11, 2014)

So I own an E35 and it's an awesome shooting bow. I own a Conquest 4, it's a great shooting bow. I've had other bows over the years, sold a few in the last few months. I've been into the bow shop an shot both the HTR a couple of times. Shot the TRG7 at a couple of different shops a couple of times. Many things are subjective but I'll tell you that in my opinion, based on my experience with the NOCAM bows, they have almost no valley, which I like, they hit the wall and just sit there, you could hold it all day, and the release is smooth as silk and when the shot is done you feel like you have a piece of dead wood in your hands because it simply doesn't make anywhere near the noise other bows have/do, nor do you feel it like I have felt all my other bows. The only thing close would be the E35, and it's still nothing like the NOCAM.


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## American1989 (Oct 27, 2014)

I shot the longbow for years, and the key was to shoot a bow you can easily draw, and I think with the compounds it should be the same. If people want smoother draw cycles, I recommend backing weight off. I myself do believe Mathews usually has the smoothest draw cycle, usually their single cams, Im not familiar with the no cam yet. But what I am more curious about is what is their back wall like? When hunting, most people completely forget about drawing their bow, but they always remember waiting there for a minute plus for that elk to open up a kill shot lol I myself have shot Mathews bows in the past, and they always have the most spongey back wall, to me thats no good, I know muscle memory eventually kicks in but I got a buddy who shoots Mathews and about a handful of times a day when at the range he will almost let down when at full draw because of the spongey back wall, I myself did the same when I had my Mathews. So whats the back wall like on the Mathews No Cam compared to an Elite?
If its anything near an Elite I will have to admit that I would love to obtain a No Cam eventually! 
I shoot Elite for a few reasons, I personally like the draw cycle, then the back wall is perfect and how forgiving they are when shooting. But the main thing Im always after is the back wall. I love being relaxed at full draw and knowing I could confidently wait for an Elk to open up a kill shot.
Again my comments above are my opinions and I know it all comes down to personal preference but I am curious about the No Cam's back wall....


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## Macs69 (Jan 2, 2012)

markman said:


> Nitrum 32. Accuracy was just how the arrows stacked in groups when shot with no sights. I was hitting arrows together with no sights on the No Cam. Just a raw review.


I have to shoot a HTR sometime soon. In the meantime, my curiosity is a bit piqued. Your review was quite thorough, but what is a Nitrum 32?


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## MSGMP (Jun 27, 2013)

My last trip to the pro shop, I shot both the Synergy and the HTR. I have to say the HTR did seem quieter to me and both were very accurate. Personally, I don't like the look of the HTR and the draw cycle seemed odd to me but I own a 2013 Elite Hunter and am used to Elite's draw cycle. I don't think you could go wrong with either bow. The HTR I shot was a 70lb bow, I shoot 60lbs, but did not have a problem drawing it.


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## jimb (Feb 17, 2003)

I like a smooth drawing bow, my two favorite cams to draw is the spiral and Mathews mini-max set at about 50 something pounds. I do not shoot 70 pound bows, and especially 70 pound bows that load up on the front of the draw cycle. I shot the HTR on 70 pounds and it was not that bad for a 70. Started out easy and then built to 70 when I was more into my shoulders and back. I would like to shoot a TRG and see how it feels. I could shoot the HTR at 70 pounds and I've seen very few other bows that I would attempt to shoot at 70 for more than a couple of shots.


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## 173BC (Mar 10, 2010)

The only question I have is how would the draw cycle of an RPM 360 @ 50# compare to the draw of the HTR @ 70#?

I just ran the numbers thru the backcountry calculator and with a 420 gr arrow @ 29" draw, 15gr on the string with a 318 IBO @ 70# is 282fps. A 420gr arrow @ 29" draw, 15gr on the string @ 50# with a 360 IBO is 284fps. 

I haven't shot the HTR, nor have I shot the RPM 360 @ 50#, but I would imagine the draw would be more desirable @ 50#.


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## ridgehunter70 (Sep 30, 2012)

173BC said:


> The only question I have is how would the draw cycle of an RPM 360 @ 50# compare to the draw of the HTR @ 70#?
> 
> I just ran the numbers thru the backcountry calculator and with a 420 gr arrow @ 29" draw, 15gr on the string with a 318 IBO @ 70# is 282fps. A 420gr arrow @ 29" draw, 15gr on the string @ 50# with a 360 IBO is 284fps.
> 
> I haven't shot the HTR, nor have I shot the RPM 360 @ 50#, but I would imagine the draw would be more desirable @ 50#.


Those figures are fine but theres one important thing.

The rpm dont meet its ibo. Its been proven many times that bow is a 350ibo bow.


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## 173BC (Mar 10, 2010)

ridgehunter70 said:


> Those figures are fine but theres one important thing.
> 
> The rpm dont meet its ibo. Its been proven many times that bow is a 350ibo bow.


Ok, even if it's only 350 IBO, @ 55# it's still shooting 284fps. 

I think I'd still rather pull any 55# bow over a 70# bow.


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## ridgehunter70 (Sep 30, 2012)

173BC said:


> Ok, even if it's only 350 IBO, @ 55# it's still shooting 284fps.
> 
> I think I'd still rather pull any 55# bow over a 70# bow.


I would too if the rpm had different specs such as the prodigy


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## 173BC (Mar 10, 2010)

ridgehunter70 said:


> I would too if the rpm had different specs such as the prodigy


It's all personal preference. I really tried to like the nitrum, the experience and the prodigy but it was the RPM that felt the best to me.


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## ridgehunter70 (Sep 30, 2012)

173BC said:


> It's all personal preference. I really tried to like the nitrum, the experience and the prodigy but it was the RPM that felt the best to me.


I prefered the grip, draw, ata and the brace height over the rpm.


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## 173BC (Mar 10, 2010)

ridgehunter70 said:


> I prefered the grip, draw, ata and the brace height over the rpm.


I prefer the shooting the RPM more, and shoot it better, not to worried about the specs.


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## ridgehunter70 (Sep 30, 2012)

173BC said:


> I prefer the shooting the RPM more, and shoot it better, not to worried about the specs.


Thats why they make different bows

Wear it out chief


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## cc122368 (May 30, 2010)

I shot the No Cam and I did not care for the draw it was smooth but very stiff and when it hit the wall it felt like it wanted to bounce forward worse than a speed bow. Yes quieter than the Hoyt Nitrum 34 but not much and I shot them both no stabilizer and vib difference was not very noticeable to me. But the Hoyt drew much nicer and shot faster for sure. I did shoot the Synergy great draw and very quiet liked it a lot but I like yokes to tune and I like the new cable ZT rollers on my new Nitrum 34.


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## 173BC (Mar 10, 2010)

:cheers::cheers::dog1:


ridgehunter70 said:


> Thats why they make different bows
> 
> Wear it out chief



Bingo!

:cheers:


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## jimb (Feb 17, 2003)

173BC said:


> Ok, even if it's only 350 IBO, @ 55# it's still shooting 284fps.
> 
> I think I'd still rather pull any 55# bow over a 70# bow.


maybe they don't want to shoot a Bowtech. We know the Bowtech is faster, but the speed is not what everyone is looking for.


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## 173BC (Mar 10, 2010)

jimb said:


> maybe they don't want to shoot a Bowtech. We know the Bowtech is faster, but the speed is not what everyone is looking for.



I'm not a Bowtech guy, I've never owned one in my life, but I have owned a couple Mathews. 

I just threw that out there, it would be comparing apples to apples that way. If you get the same speed out of both bows then you're comparing it equally. 

I personally don't care what name is on the limbs, I've owned bows from 2 and 3 different names at the same time a few times. If your arrow is travelling 285fps, no matter what the poundage your drawing, that should be the basis for comparison. Take the RPM 360 @ 55# and compare the draw cycle and how long you can hold on target to the HTR @ 70# to make an equal comparison since the arrow will be travelling at the same speed. I'm just using the RPM 360 vs the HTR as an example for argument sake. The bow might draw nice and smooth for being a 70# bow, but if you can get the same performance out of a bow at 55#, it should be something to consider is all I'm getting at.


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## 573mms (Jan 23, 2014)

I personally like the synergy way better than the htr. The synergy has more ata more brace height and a little more speed and is a awesome shooting bow with alot of forgiveness. If I was in the smooth bow market synergy would be the bow I would pick.


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## ridgehunter70 (Sep 30, 2012)

173BC said:


> I'm not a Bowtech guy, I've never owned one in my life, but I have owned a couple Mathews.
> 
> I just threw that out there, it would be comparing apples to apples that way. If you get the same speed out of both bows then you're comparing it equally.
> 
> I personally don't care what name is on the limbs, I've owned bows from 2 and 3 different names at the same time a few times. If your arrow is travelling 285fps, no matter what the poundage your drawing, that should be the basis for comparison. Take the RPM 360 @ 55# and compare the draw cycle and how long you can hold on target to the HTR @ 70# to make an equal comparison since the arrow will be travelling at the same speed. I'm just using the RPM 360 vs the HTR as an example for argument sake. The bow might draw nice and smooth for being a 70# bow, but if you can get the same performance out of a bow at 55#, it should be something to consider is all I'm getting at.


How can you compare speed when matt clearly stated in the no cam video that he didnt build this bow as a speed bow. If your concerned with speed dont buy the htr.


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## 173BC (Mar 10, 2010)

ridgehunter70 said:


> How can you compare speed when matt clearly stated in the no cam video that he didnt build this bow as a speed bow. If your concerned with speed dont buy the htr.


There's your problem right there, you're too concerned about what Matt says, and not looking at performance. 

Try this, take what Matt is saying is so good about his bow, grab an RPM set at 55# and an HTR set at 70# and compare the draw cycle, how they hold, how they sound, and how they feel after the shot. I'm not talking comparing the HTR to a speed bow, otherwise I'd say grab an RPM @ 70#, I'm saying grab a bow that will have the same speed of arrow the HTR is shooting. 

Like I said, I've never even owned a Bowtech, so I don't have an agenda here, it could be any bows that are compared here. I just happened to shoot an RPM set at 60# and couldn't believe how smooth that thing was at 60#, I can only imagine what it would be like at 55#. Now, if it's shooting the same speed at 55# as the HTR is shooting at 70#, don't you think it would be an equal comparison?


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## ridgehunter70 (Sep 30, 2012)

173BC said:


> There's your problem right there, you're too concerned about what Matt says, and not looking at performance.
> 
> Try this, take what Matt is saying is so good about his bow, grab an RPM set at 55# and an HTR set at 70# and compare the draw cycle, how they hold, how they sound, and how they feel after the shot. I'm not talking comparing the HTR to a speed bow, otherwise I'd say grab an RPM @ 70#, I'm saying grab a bow that will have the same speed of arrow the HTR is shooting.
> 
> Like I said, I've never even owned a Bowtech, so I don't have an agenda here, it could be any bows that are compared here. I just happened to shoot an RPM set at 60# and couldn't believe how smooth that thing was at 60#, I can only imagine what it would be like at 55#. Now, if it's shooting the same speed at 55# as the HTR is shooting at 70#, don't you think it would be an equal comparison?


Again your comparing apples to oranges. Look at the specs of each bow. They do mean something. Ever thought why the rpm shoots faster???


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## 173BC (Mar 10, 2010)

ridgehunter70 said:


> Again your comparing apples to oranges. Look at the specs of each bow. They do mean something. Ever thought why the rpm shoots faster???


If you can hold at full draw for a long time, and consistently stack arrows, tell me what does the specs mean? Brace height and axcel to axcel length, with today's technologies have way less of a bearing on a bows performance than they used to as far as shoot ability goes. 

All you have to do is try an RPM compared to an HTR set at equal speeds to understand what I'm talking about. You are too stuck on specs, and you're not looking at what you should be looking for, and that's how the bow performs for you. 

I'm not a speed bow guy, I've only owned 3 speed bows in my life. Most of my bows are in the mid range 330fps, 318 IBO I consider to be slow. This is my point, take any bow you want, set it up so its shooting 318 IBO if you are worried about a 6" brace height and see how it feels, another mathews even if you don't want to try other bows. Don't worry about what Matt has to say about his bow, because unlike me, Matt does have an agenda. As a matter of fact, don't worry about what name is on the bow or what specs it has, just shoot it, you might surprise yourself, I know I often do.


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## ridgehunter70 (Sep 30, 2012)

173BC said:


> If you can hold at full draw for a long time, and consistently stack arrows, tell me what does the specs mean? Brace height and axcel to axcel length, with today's technologies have way less of a bearing on a bows performance than they used to as far as shoot ability goes.
> 
> All you have to do is try an RPM compared to an HTR set at equal speeds to understand what I'm talking about. You are too stuck on specs, and you're not looking at what you should be looking for, and that's how the bow performs for you.
> 
> I'm not a speed bow guy, I've only owned 3 speed bows in my life. Most of my bows are in the mid range 330fps, 318 IBO I consider to be slow. This is my point, take any bow you want, set it up so its shooting 318 IBO if you are worried about a 6" brace height and see how it feels, another mathews even if you don't want to try other bows. Don't worry about what Matt has to say about his bow, because unlike me, Matt does have an agenda. As a matter of fact, don't worry about what name is on the bow or what specs it has, just shoot it, you might surprise yourself, I know I often do.


For some people. Like me I choose the style of the htr over the rpm because the long riser design fits better for me. The only thing I will agree on is pulling less lbs. But for some like myself, im not concerned with speed thats why I havent shot a 70lb bow in almost 20yrs. And I dont concern myself with a name on a bow. Ive had several different brands of bows last year


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## ElkFetish (Aug 12, 2007)

173BC said:


> I'm not a Bowtech guy, I've never owned one in my life, but I have owned a couple Mathews.
> 
> I just threw that out there, it would be comparing apples to apples that way. If you get the same speed out of both bows then you're comparing it equally.
> 
> I personally don't care what name is on the limbs, I've owned bows from 2 and 3 different names at the same time a few times. If your arrow is travelling 285fps, no matter what the poundage your drawing, that should be the basis for comparison. Take the RPM 360 @ 55# and compare the draw cycle and how long you can hold on target to the HTR @ 70# to make an equal comparison since the arrow will be travelling at the same speed. I'm just using the RPM 360 vs the HTR as an example for argument sake. The bow might draw nice and smooth for being a 70# bow, but if you can get the same performance out of a bow at 55#, it should be something to consider is all I'm getting at.


You are exactly right. Comparing bows by arrow velocity is the true apples to apples comparison. Trouble is most guys don't understand that and thus argue about things that don't make sense to us in the know! :wink: IMO the RPM at 55 lbs would be a far superior performer in all categories to the HTR or Synergy. I would make that argument at 60lbs. Plus you are holding and pulling less weight which is always a good thing, for me at least! And even if your one of those guys that likes to hold more weight, you can still adjust letoff to get that but be pulling much less weight.


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## ridgehunter70 (Sep 30, 2012)

Yeah nevermind how accurate you can shoot a bow even at less lbs if the bow dont fit you then lets just throw the specs out the window. Seems like yall know everything. Glad I could learn something[emoji57]


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## 173BC (Mar 10, 2010)

ElkFetish said:


> You are exactly right. Comparing bows by arrow velocity is the true apples to apples comparison. Trouble is most guys don't understand that and thus argue about things that don't make sense to us in the know! :wink: IMO the RPM at 55 lbs would be a far superior performer in all categories to the HTR or Synergy. I would make that argument at 60lbs. Plus you are holding and pulling less weight which is always a good thing, for me at least! And even if your one of those guys that likes to hold more weight, you can still adjust letoff to get that but be pulling much less weight.



Exactly. When you take off the blinders and actually shoot different bows, it's surprising how much bs is loaded into advertising. 

I have honestly never even owned a bowtech before, but I have owned a couple mathews. People put way too much trust in advertising, so much so that they believe false advertising in spite of their own actual findings. 

I am in no way a fanboy, I'm just trying to point out a different angle to look at when picking a bow. It only makes sense to try out as many different options as possible when it's your hard earned cash on the line.


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## Mathias (Mar 21, 2005)

ElkFetish said:


> You are exactly right. Comparing bows by arrow velocity is the true apples to apples comparison. Trouble is most guys don't understand that and thus argue about things that don't make sense to us in the know! :wink: IMO the RPM at 55 lbs would be a far superior performer in all categories to the HTR or Synergy. I would make that argument at 60lbs. Plus you are holding and pulling less weight which is always a good thing, for me at least! And even if your one of those guys that likes to hold more weight, you can still adjust letoff to get that but be pulling much less weight.


Disagree wholeheartedly :wink:


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## ElkFetish (Aug 12, 2007)

The main point is still being missed. Ok, so the rpm specs don't fit you, fine. Find one that does with a faster cam and try it at a lighter weight. It will enlighten most people with an open mind when comparing them to heavy poundage bows with cams that tout smoothness. 

And I guess I took for granted that most folks here understood that this is an opinion sharing forum. Obviously this is my opinion and what works best for me and most of the guys I know that try it. If you don't like it fine. Just sharing concepts that may give guys the best of both worlds. Some of you need to lighten up and embrace the concept of debate...


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## IA Monsterbuck (Jul 18, 2006)

I agree with 173BC and ElkFetish, when comparing bows apples to apples you should set the poundage at whatever gives the same arrow speed. Bottom line is what bow do you shoot best at that arrow speed?


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## rockyw (Sep 16, 2013)

> That bow is so damn smooth on draw and at the shot


Heavy round wheel bows are like that, why are we still surprised after this much time. Yawnnnnnnn


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## BuckshutrJR (Feb 21, 2011)

The long riser of the HTR I think is what makes it so rock solid to hold. Makes it feel like a longer ATA bow than it is.


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## American1989 (Oct 27, 2014)

I shot the longbow for years, and the key was to shoot a bow you can easily draw, and I think with the compounds it should be the same. If people want smoother draw cycles, I recommend backing weight off. I myself do believe Mathews usually has the smoothest draw cycle, usually their single cams, Im not familiar with the no cam yet. But what I am more curious about is what is their back wall like? When hunting, most people completely forget about drawing their bow, but they always remember waiting there for a minute plus for that elk to open up a kill shot lol I myself have shot Mathews bows in the past, and they always have the most spongey back wall, to me thats no good, I know muscle memory eventually kicks in but I got a buddy who shoots Mathews and about a handful of times a day when at the range he will almost let down when at full draw because of the spongey back wall, I myself did the same when I had my Mathews. So whats the back wall like on the Mathews No Cam compared to an Elite?
If its anything near an Elite I will have to admit that I would love to obtain a No Cam eventually! 
I shoot Elite for a few reasons, I personally like the draw cycle, then the back wall is perfect and how forgiving they are when shooting. But the main thing Im always after is the back wall. I love being relaxed at full draw and knowing I could confidently wait for an Elk to open up a kill shot.
Again my comments above are my opinions and I know it all comes down to personal preference but I am curious about the No Cam's back wall....


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## xhammer23 (Dec 25, 2014)

173BC said:


> I'm not a Bowtech guy, I've never owned one in my life, but I have owned a couple Mathews.
> 
> I just threw that out there, it would be comparing apples to apples that way. If you get the same speed out of both bows then you're comparing it equally.
> 
> I personally don't care what name is on the limbs, I've owned bows from 2 and 3 different names at the same time a few times. If your arrow is travelling 285fps, no matter what the poundage your drawing, that should be the basis for comparison. Take the RPM 360 @ 55# and compare the draw cycle and how long you can hold on target to the HTR @ 70# to make an equal comparison since the arrow will be travelling at the same speed. I'm just using the RPM 360 vs the HTR as an example for argument sake. The bow might draw nice and smooth for being a 70# bow, but if you can get the same performance out of a bow at 55#, it should be something to consider is all I'm getting at.


I totally agree with this. I try to explain this to people all the time. I think a lot of people just think they will be less of a man if they shoot a lower poundage. I can shoot at 70# but I like to shoot a ton so I like a 60# that will still out perform most 70# bows. I think the synergy is a much better feeling draw and on the shot they are really close as far as noise and vibration. I do like the looks of the no cam better but I would buy the synergy if I had to pick one.


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## SilentWolf (Apr 29, 2015)

*Matthews no cam vs Elite Synergy*

Hey guys just wondering about this debate. the draw cycle and the percieved "dead in the hand" feel of both of these great bows. 
A radical cam designed for speed or a subtle cam designed to incorporate smoothness plus a little punch are still cams to different performance degrees and capabilities.
A wheel has no peak and is equal in 360 degrees of its circumfrence.

Smoother, less vibration, easy draw cycle etc.

Both bows have those qualities. Kudos to the Elite synergy for accomplishing that with a cam system ( oblong circle)
And expected performance from Matthews using wheels.

Its a elite cam versus a Matthews wheel "No Cam"


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## ElkFetish (Aug 12, 2007)

The other option you should look at if you are interested in this concept is shooting a high performance cam, both the cams you brought up are very much smooth or soft style cams, at a very low draw weight. If you like the shorter valley and lower letoff then you should try a full throttle for instance at 45-55 pounds of draw weight. You will get the same and most likely better speeds but with a beautiful draw cycle and shooting experience. If the short brace scares you try out many of the 6 inch brace bows. The xcentric for instance is a very fast 6 inch brace bow with a high letoff like the no cam and synergy so you can keep that feel. The point is still the same though. Butter smooth, not stiff, easy to hold with great performance. 

When comparing a soft style cam at heavier weights to a high performance cam at lower weights I personally prefer the later and as a bonus usually end up getting better performance than the former.

BTW, welcome to AT!


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## stehawk (Aug 28, 2004)

I finally got to shoot the HTR and have to say I wasn't impressed at all. Its top heavy and has a harsher draw cycle. It doesn't have as firm of wall nor as much valley as the synergy. Shorter BH and doesn't hold as steady as everyone trys to say it does. The HTR is not for me. Sorry but thats how I feel and fanboys go ahead and flame away. Call me a hater and a basher and anything else you like. I don't care for the HTR. Bottom line is there are many bows on the market that feels better. Flame away.


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## griffwar (Nov 15, 2012)

stehawk said:


> I finally got to shoot the HTR and have to say I wasn't impressed at all. Its top heavy and has a harsher draw cycle. It doesn't have as firm of wall nor as much valley as the synergy. Shorter BH and doesn't hold as steady as everyone trys to say it does. The HTR is not for me. Sorry but thats how I feel and fanboys go ahead and flame away. Call me a hater and a basher and anything else you like. I don't care for the HTR. Bottom line is there are many bows on the market that feels better. Flame away.


Good for you now go find one you like.


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## Chadrap (Dec 2, 2013)

I shot one at 70#, which is what I shoot, and slammed it into the stops first draw. Different draw cycle no doubt. Had it down smooth after 4 or 5 shots. What blew me away was how dead it was on the shot. I was shocked. Id give up speed for that. Haven't yet. Still might though.


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## paulgeorges (Nov 22, 2008)

Mr. October said:


> Draw cycle is something that is VERY subjective. That is why people need to try before they buy. I really, really, really wanted to like the Prime last year when I was bow shopping. I liked the look of the bow, and I liked their replacement string policy. But when I shot it I found it to be a terrible (to me) feeling draw.


yes and not . very easy to have a idea with the energy curve .

HTR is great bow


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## stehawk (Aug 28, 2004)

griffwar said:


> Good for you now go find one you like.


Thanks, I will. Going to try the ELite E32 next.:darkbeer:


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