# ASA London, KY



## tshoyt23 (Apr 21, 2009)

I shoot semi and I can say at this point I'm very irritated. I'll get over it I'm sure. Not going has definitely crossed my mind, but I'm sure I'll get over it. It's a lot of travel and money for a one day, force it all in shoot. I know other classes are experiencing this as well, and that others have dealt with it in the past, so I'm trying not to make a huge deal of it. But internally I'm pretty irritated to say the least.


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## psehoghunter (Aug 13, 2013)

I shoot open b...I shoot alot so I didn't think all in one day would be a huge deal........but it sucked

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## psehoghunter (Aug 13, 2013)

The waiting was the hard part 

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## 3dbowmaster (Sep 16, 2005)

Just wait when its 100 degrees in KY and you shoot all 40 on the powerline in one day. Biggest nightmare Ive ever had


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## Bryan Thacker (Jan 27, 2011)

I'm shooting K45 & this will be my first ASA event that I will attend. I'm excited to see what it's all about as I've primarily shot IBO rules.

Living here in Bedford,it's hard to find any shoot remotely close that's not IBO ring scoring...Good luck to all the shooters attending!


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## cenochs (May 2, 2007)

Hate to hear that about Semi or any class that is forced to shoot all 40 in one day. ASA needs to go back to 2 shoot times on Saturday and Sunday like in the past. Saturday you have a 8am and 12pm and Sunday you have a 8am and 12pm. This doubles the number of people able to shoot without adding ranges. Pre register and you get to pick your shoot times after a cut off number you will have to shoot what ever is available...


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## jensley (Mar 26, 2014)

so will their be 3 open c winners ?


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## G200driver (Aug 7, 2011)

Shooting all 40 targets in one day sucks! If this is what we have to look forward to from here on, I personally, am going to find something else to do..Foley and Paris both took almost 5hrs to shoot the unknown day, and that's just 20 targets. Person will be wiped out starting the known targets...this is suppose to be fun, and enjoyable, not some sort of death march. Not real sure what the hell the ASA is thinking about in all this, but it's not going to be good for the sport.


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## G200driver (Aug 7, 2011)

Noticed that a least there is Friday...just have to change travel plans..


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## shanxalot (Mar 4, 2012)

7:30 start time for some classes !!! To me and this is just my opinion but depending on how the range is set you could shoot your hole first 10 looking into the sun !! And then turn around and have the possibility of shooting your last 10 of the 3:30 start time shooting directly into the sun !!! Guess if you didn't want the cores abused those are great start times !


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## BowHuntnKY (Dec 10, 2008)

shanxalot said:


> 7:30 start time for some classes !!! To me and this is just my opinion but depending on how the range is set you could shoot your hole first 10 looking into the sun !! And then turn around and have the possibility of shooting your last 10 of the 3:30 start time shooting directly into the sun !!! Guess if you didn't want the cores abused those are great start times !


This how paris was for me on saturday on g/h for open c.


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

Everybody all excited about the growing numbers of shooters at ASA.

Now we're seeing the effects of 2,000 showing up.


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## blade37defender (Jun 8, 2005)

carlosii said:


> Everybody all excited about the growing numbers of shooters at ASA.
> 
> Now we're seeing the effects of 2,000 showing up.


Exactly. They're going to have to find larger sites, which is proving to be difficult, in order to have room to put more ranges in place. It's not like the growth happened overnight. The organization has been growing steadily the last few seasons. It's absolutely ludicrous that you have to shoot your entire tournament in one day at a national event.


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## shanxalot (Mar 4, 2012)

Me too on Sunday! ! And it's hard to hit the sweet spot on a white blur , that's why I brought it up


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## schmel_me (Dec 17, 2003)

Power line+40 targets+90 degree heat= waste of time. 
If k45 shoots up there I'm shooting one on Friday.


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

schmel_me said:


> Power line+40 targets+90 degree heat= waste of time.
> If k45 shoots up there I'm shooting one on Friday.


Karl.....we are shooting Fri and then sat morning and heading home. Dave Shaber was wanting to do the same and looking for a ride.


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## BowHuntnKY (Dec 10, 2008)

Garceau said:


> Karl.....we are shooting Fri and then sat morning and heading home. Dave Shaber was wanting to do the same and looking for a ride.


Swing by and pick me up lol

I was juat saying how i was gonna shoot team shoot friday....and shoot my 2nd round at 4 on friday...then sat morning and get a early start home.


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## WhitetailAce (May 16, 2012)

jensley said:


> so will their be 3 open c winners ?


That's what it looks like. The top three of your flight will come from the set of ranges your flight shot for the weekend.


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## sagecreek (Jul 15, 2003)

Yellow = Known Distance Round

* Open C is now flighted at 100 shooters per flight

Classes with all Saturday assignments will have the Friday at 4:00PM option

**Semi-Pro does not have the Friday option

Class	Range	1st	Time	2nd	Time	Yds
Men's Pro	A / B	Sat	11:30	Sun	7:30	50
Wom.Pro	A / B	Sat	11:30	Sun	7:30	50
Senior Pro	B / A	Sat	11:30	Sun	7:30	50
**Semi Pro B / A	Sat	7:30	Sat 3:30	50

Known 50	D / C	Sat	11:30	Sun	7:30	50
Open A C / D	Sat	11:30	Sun	7:30	50
Open B	D / C	Sat	7:30	Sat 3:30	45

Senior Open E / F	Sat	11:30	Sun	7:30	45
Women Open A	E / F	Sat	11:30	Sun	7:30	45
Super Senior F / E	Sat	11:30	Sun	7:30	40
Senior Masters	F / E	Sat	11:30	Sun	7:30	40
Hunter F / E	Sat	7:30	Sat	3:30	40
HS Open - Male	F / E	Sat	7:30	Sat	3:30	40

* NEW - Open C1	G / H	Sat	7:30	Sat	3:30	40
* NEW - Open C2	H / F	Sat	7:30	Sat	3:30	40
* NEW - Open C3	E / G	Sat	7:30	Sat 3:30	40

Women's K-40	G / H	Sat	11:30	Sun	7:30	40
Senior Women	H / G	Sat	11:30	Sun	7:30	40
HS Open - Female	H / G	Sat	11:30	Sun	7:30	40
Women Open B H / G	Sat	11:30	Sun	7:30	40
Sr. Hunter	H / G	Sat	11:30	Sun	7:30	40
Crossbow	H / G	Sat	11:30	Sun	7:30	40

Senior Known	K / L	Sat	11:30	Sun	7:30	45
Women K45	K / L	Sat	11:30	Sun	7:30	45
Unlimited	K / L	Sat	11:30	Sun	7:30	45
Known 45 (1)	K / L	Sat	7:30	Sat	3:30	45
Known 45 (2)	L / K	Sat	7:30	Sat	3:30	45

Wom.Hunter	J / I	Sat	11:30	Sun	7:30	30
HS Pins - Female	J / I	Sat	11:30	Sun	7:30	30
MS Pins - Boys	J / I	Sat	7:30	Sat	3:30	30
HS Pins - Male	J / I	Sat	7:30	Sat 3:30	30
Bow Novice	I / J	Sat	7:30	Sat 3:30	30
HS Olympic	I / J	Sat	11:30	Sun	7:30	30
MS Pins - Girls	I / J	Sat	11:30	Sun	7:30	30
MS Open - Girls	I / J	Sat	11:30	Sun	7:30	30
MS Open - Boys I / J	Sat	11:30	Sun	7:30	30
Traditional	A / A	Sat	7:30	Sat 9AM	25

Jr. Eagle	Y	Sat	7:30	Sat	7:30	15
Youth Traditional	Y	Sat	7:30	Sat	7:30	20
Elem. Pins	Y	Sat	7:30	Sat	7:30	20
Elem Open	Y	Sat	7:30	Sat	7:30	25


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## sagecreek (Jul 15, 2003)

My shooting buddy is moving to Open A from Open B so he doesn't have to shoot them all in one day.


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## sagecreek (Jul 15, 2003)

They should make a unknown 40 class to fix the Open C problem. That's just crazy. I think there was 260 in that class last year at Kentucky.


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## cenochs (May 2, 2007)

I am looking at it wrong but does it appear C range is free at 7:30 on saturday ? Emmpty Range ?


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## sagecreek (Jul 15, 2003)

Yep


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## aljburk (Jan 6, 2007)

sagecreek said:


> Yellow = Known Distance Round
> 
> * Open C is now flighted at 100 shooters per flight
> 
> ...




Where did you find this info?


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## blade37defender (Jun 8, 2005)

aljburk said:


> Where did you find this info?


Go to the event info on ASAs site and look at the range assignments


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## rattlinman (Dec 30, 2004)

carlosii said:


> Everybody all excited about the growing numbers of shooters at ASA.
> 
> Now we're seeing the effects of 2,000 showing up.


I agree. Now the question will be, is this how it will continue or will we see changes? I truly enjoy the larger venues but I've shot all 40 in one day once...and will avoid it at all costs from now on. I'm real curious to see how this eventually pans out.


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## 3Dblackncamo (Jul 22, 2009)

I would stay home and shoot local ranges before I would shoot it all in one day


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## WhitetailAce (May 16, 2012)

rattlinman said:


> I agree. Now the question will be, is this how it will continue or will we see changes? I truly enjoy the larger venues but I've shot all 40 in one day once...and will avoid it at all costs from now on. I'm real curious to see how this eventually pans out.


Mike already said they were considering moving the pro classes to shooting Fri and Sat and holding the team shoot Friday morning. This will free up two to three ranges for Sunday. And we may still see some classes shooting both rounds on Saturday (or Friday) but not nearly as many as we are seeing now.


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## G200driver (Aug 7, 2011)

I spoke with ASA toda about why everything was being shot one day now..was told this is most likely how it would be in the future as the numbers have gotten so big(can you say contingency money), they don't want to turn away shooters...basically, my take away was this.. Making money on ASA membership and event registration seems to be more important than making a good shoot...hey, it's their business, but I don't believe this is the way...


In ever other competitive shooting sport that I compete in(NRA Fullbore, Longrange, Skeet, USPSA, etc..in all of them they limit number of competitors to range sizes...if you don't get registered on time, you don't shoot..it's simple...and all the events are well run, and enjoyable...but instead, money seems to be the driving force here and that's a shame because these events used to be so much fun and the ASA was doing great things for the sport...


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## schmel_me (Dec 17, 2003)

K45 has 2 flights also. So is it 100 then overflow into flight 2. Or split down the middle? Yay looks like we're playing for about 200$ to win a class now.


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## cenochs (May 2, 2007)

G200driver said:


> I spoke with ASA toda about why everything was being shot one day now..was told this is most likely how it would be in the future as the numbers have gotten so big(can you say contingency money), they don't want to turn away shooters...basically, my take away was this.. Making money on ASA membership and event registration seems to be more important than making a good shoot...hey, it's their business, but I don't believe this is the way...
> 
> 
> In ever other competitive shooting sport that I compete in(NRA Fullbore, Longrange, Skeet, USPSA, etc..in all of them they limit number of competitors to range sizes...if you don't get registered on time, you don't shoot..it's simple...and all the events are well run, and enjoyable...but instead, money seems to be the driving force here and that's a shame because these events used to be so much fun and the ASA was doing great things for the sport...


Not good thanks for the info...A solution would be to have 2 shoot times for Saturday and Sunday this would solve the problem. You Pre register and pick your shoot time. This would give each event the capacity for 400 shooter per class - 2 Ranges (40 targets) X 5 shooter per stake = 200 X 2 shoot times. The cut off would then be 400...


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

"Nobody goes there anymore. Its too crowded."
Yogi Berra


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## badams2s (Jun 26, 2012)

K45 is not being flighter. It's a shooter of year class. They just have enough shooters to have 2 ranges going at once. Look at the schedule K45 1 and 2 shoot the same ranges and then just shoot the other range in the afternoon.


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## derwet (Jun 3, 2014)

I have utmost respect for Mike. However, with the numbers being what they have been at Foley, Paris and Augusta already this year, ASA cannot keep blaming the increased attendance. Precidence has been set for attendance. At some point, increased attendance must be considered the norm. It's time to start planning for 2500 shooters, not 1800 shooters. With the increased number of shooters has come increased profits to ASA so there has to be increased opportunity to expand the number of ranges to accommodate the increased number of shooters. I truly believe Mike and ASA will make things right. I just hope it's sooner rather than later.

Just my $0.02.


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

It's a blessing and a curse.....add more classes the original classes suffer ...but they should have Friday options.....or have the pro classes shoot on Friday/Saturday and no need for the pros on the team shoot.....many different things to way....


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## Huntin Hard (Aug 8, 2011)

WhitetailAce said:


> Mike already said they were considering moving the pro classes to shooting Fri and Sat and holding the team shoot Friday morning. This will free up two to three ranges for Sunday. And we may still see some classes shooting both rounds on Saturday (or Friday) but not nearly as many as we are seeing now.


I don't know why he doesn't do that for the rest of this year. That would make things way easier


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## BowHuntnKY (Dec 10, 2008)

You can shoot sat and sunday at regions, wont run into these problems


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## nochance (Nov 27, 2008)

bowhuntnky said:


> you can shoot sat and sunday at regions, wont run into these problems


lol!


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

It's on Asa website when you look up range assignments for the event


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## Bryan Thacker (Jan 27, 2011)

So K45 shoots at 7:30 & 3:30??? It'll barely be breaking daylight in KY at 7:30am in in June....

I'm not complaining it's just weird...This is my first ASA event I'll be attending & looking very forward to it but I don't like that 7:30 start time!!!


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## nele22 (Mar 10, 2009)

Bryan Thacker said:


> So K45 shoots at 7:30 & 3:30??? It'll barely be breaking daylight in KY at 7:30am in in June....
> 
> I'm not complaining it's just weird...This is my first ASA event I'll be attending & looking very forward to it but I don't like that 7:30 start time!!!


Warming up in the dark is also a blast.


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## sagecreek (Jul 15, 2003)

Be sure to shine your headlights on the practice bags.


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

It's going to be very crowded on K range Saturday morning at 11:30! Best bring more than just a snack.......... London, KY has always drawn a BIG crowd but if it only draws the same numbers in Senior Known, Women K45 and Unlimited classes as Augusta, GA we will have at least 7 to a stake! 116 (Senior Known) + 21 (W K45) + 11 (Unlimited) = 148, 148 / 20 = 7.4...... 148/21 = 7.04....... 148/22 = 6.7 per stake. I almost _expect _to see 8 to a stake if a class is not moved to another range.

Along with a cooler of food I may bring an air mattress and a pillow....................and a flashlight to find my back to the truck!


I think there may be a "hiccup" in the range assignments! No one is scheduled to shoot L range at 11:30! I expect to see some shuffling of range assignments for the above mentioned classes. With 40 targets (K and L ranges) in play we might only have 4 to a stake! Senior Known is likely to have 120+ archers in that class alone.


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## pointndog (Jul 14, 2005)

Glad, I am not going to this one this year. Open C flighted, and shooting different courses. This is crazy stuff.


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## allxs (Mar 10, 2005)

if everyone who is whining on this forum will just stay home, these shoots will be a lot better for the rest of us, we would certainly appreciate it.


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## aljburk (Jan 6, 2007)

Whats happening to OPEN C?? this will be my first National ASA and my first time shooting open class at a National. Will there be 3 different "winners". 1st-3rd for each?


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

pointndog said:


> Glad, I am not going to this one this year. Open C flighted, and shooting different courses. This is crazy stuff.


I wouldn't call it flighted as much as making 3 separate "classes" within one class. Being there isn't a SOY for Open C I think busting a novice class up so it will have no more than 5 to a stake is very reasonable. It's either that or capping participation which is the very last thing that should be done! I'm certain Mike T's not doing it so there will simply be more "winners"! When I think of flighted I think of basically "redistributing" monies to those well down in the standings based on nothing more than the quantity of participants like the NFAA does! With three Open C classes there will be 3 times more archers moving up after London.


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## Luv2shoot3D (Feb 4, 2013)

3dbowmaster said:


> Just wait when its 100 degrees in KY and you shoot all 40 on the powerline in one day. Biggest nightmare Ive ever had


The power lines suck


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## WhitetailAce (May 16, 2012)

aljburk said:


> Whats happening to OPEN C?? this will be my first National ASA and my first time shooting open class at a National. Will there be 3 different "winners". 1st-3rd for each?


Yes there will be a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd place finish for each flight (set of ranges.)

First flight - G/H ranges
Second flight - H/F ranges
Third Flight - E/G ranges


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

WhitetailAce said:


> Yes there will be a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd place finish for each flight (set of ranges.)
> 
> First flight - G/H ranges
> Second flight - H/F ranges
> Third Flight - E/G ranges


That's what I thought. I think it's the right thing to do and much better than 8 to a stake and taking 7 hours to shoot a range!!


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## aljburk (Jan 6, 2007)

WhitetailAce said:


> Yes there will be a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd place finish for each flight (set of ranges.)
> 
> First flight - G/H ranges
> Second flight - H/F ranges
> Third Flight - E/G ranges


Awesome! Maybe a 6 person shoot off? Shoot off winner gets a sweet seat chair and Greg Poole's shirt!!


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## dw'struth (Mar 14, 2008)

aljburk said:


> Awesome! Maybe a 6 person shoot off? Shoot off winner gets a sweet seat chair and Greg Poole's shirt!!


In case you ever need a quick shelter. LOL


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## ajsrn1970 (May 10, 2016)

Over 2000 shooters, practice range hasnt been expanded so the level of rudeness from where everyone is trying to get warmed up has increased and the bags and inserts on the animals are getting in poor shape. Come on Mike, fork out some money for more bags and cores, we know you can afford it with the increase in entry fee money.


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## psehoghunter (Aug 13, 2013)

BowHuntnKY said:


> You can shoot sat and sunday at regions, wont run into these problems


With all 5 ppl lol

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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

ajsrn1970 said:


> Over 2000 shooters, practice range hasnt been expanded so the level of rudeness from where everyone is trying to get warmed up has increased and the bags and inserts on the animals are getting in poor shape. Come on Mike, fork out some money for more bags and cores, we know you can afford it with the increase in entry fee money.


Nice first post....... I thought people were very pleasant in Paris, TX and in Augusta, GA but then again you get back what you give I.

However, I do agree that with a large jump up in attendance the practice ranges and practice bags MUST expand significantly! It's one thing to wait 20 minutes or so to get on a practice range but the wait in Augusta was close to ridiculous at times. I understand when there is a sudden 25+% increase in attendance we should not be surprised there are some "clogs" at times. But at this point we all KNOW that it is very likely there will be another record crowd in London! We know London was very close to max capacity last year.


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

1955 cards turned in at Augusta.


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## blade37defender (Jun 8, 2005)

Kstigall said:


> ....*It's one thing to wait 20 minutes or so to get on a practice range but the wait in Augusta was close to ridiculous at times*....


This ^^^ wins POTD for me. We waited forever to get on the practice range. I may have shot 15 targets on Friday at the practice range and 10 of those were on the 30 yard range because the lines for the 40/50 were stupid long. At that point, I might as well just do the team shoot. Only 5 less targets, a good look at the terrain on the ranges, and a chance to win a little cash.


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## 3dwanttobe (Mar 19, 2007)

I shoot semi pro and have attended Asa tournaments for 13 yrs. We have never shot all 40 targets in 1 day. Personally I think ASA should have worked on the growing attendance and lack of ranges long before now. The stakes are higher with sponsorship and having to commit to shooting All the events for a calendar year. For the guys trying to prepare for the open pro class.......instead it's like your preparing for open c. No offense to open c, that's where I started but not what I want to compare my asa weekend range assignment to. A 1 day 40 target tournament is tough for any class but Asa should consider that some classes have more at stake.


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

3dwanttobe said:


> I shoot semi pro and have attended Asa tournaments for 13 yrs. We have never shot all 40 targets in 1 day. Personally I think ASA should have worked on the growing attendance and lack of ranges long before now. The stakes are higher with sponsorship and having to commit to shooting All the events for a calendar year. For the guys trying to prepare for the open pro class.......instead it's like your preparing for open c. No offense to open c, that's where I started but not what I want to compare my asa weekend range assignment to. A 1 day 40 target tournament is tough for any class but Asa should consider that some classes have more at stake.



They have also said on their forum site....this will be the same set up till the classic , since the pros shoot Friday an Saturday .... I think personally they should have the pros shoot all of them on Friday an Saturday...


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## ajsrn1970 (May 10, 2016)

Kstigall said:


> Nice first post....... I thought people were very pleasant in Paris, TX and in Augusta, GA but then again you get back what you give I.
> 
> However, I do agree that with a large jump up in attendance the practice ranges and practice bags MUST expand significantly! It's one thing to wait 20 minutes or so to get on a practice range but the wait in Augusta was close to ridiculous at times. I understand when there is a sudden 25+% increase in attendance we should not be surprised there are some "clogs" at times. But at this point we all KNOW that it is very likely there will be another record crowd in London! We know London was very close to max capacity last year.


There are tons of amazing people involved in the ASA and 95% are the nicest people you will meet anywhere but I agree with the others that they should have known from the attendance at Foley alone and with all the contingency money dumped into it this year, that there needed to be expansions made...expand the numbers of ranges, increase the practice range sizes and put more practice bags out. Problem solved


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## rvkhan (Dec 31, 2003)

G200driver said:


> I spoke with ASA toda about why everything was being shot one day now..was told this is most likely how it would be in the future as the numbers have gotten so big(can you say contingency money), they don't want to turn away shooters...basically, my take away was this.. Making money on ASA membership and event registration seems to be more important than making a good shoot...hey, it's their business, but I don't believe this is the way...
> 
> 
> In ever other competitive shooting sport that I compete in(NRA Fullbore, Longrange, Skeet, USPSA, etc..in all of them they limit number of competitors to range sizes...if you don't get registered on time, you don't shoot..it's simple...and all the events are well run, and enjoyable...but instead, money seems to be the driving force here and that's a shame because these events used to be so much fun and the ASA was doing great things for the sport...


I agree 100%!!! If you don't register on time, you're SOL!! But like you and many have said, it's the growing membership that is the ruling factor. It doesn't matter how many ppl they inconvenience or piss off. They're going to make their share of the pie. It's seems like a great think to shoot the big shoots but a pain in the butt at the same time. Good luck and have fun.


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

ajsrn1970 said:


> There are tons of amazing people involved in the ASA and 95% are the nicest people you will meet anywhere but I agree with the others that they should have known from the attendance at Foley alone and with all the contingency money dumped into it this year, that there needed to be expansions made...expand the numbers of ranges, increase the practice range sizes and put more practice bags out. Problem solved


BUT the devil is in the details! All of what you mentioned requires a lot more resources. Man power, real estate, existing contracts and $$$ being the biggies. *IF* the real estate exists at the current site....... Can the McKenzie targets and practice bags be had and delivered for a reasonable cost? How many man hours does it take to build the additional competition lanes? How many man hours to build the practice ranges? How many man hours to build the bag range? Do we need to hire more people? More trailers to transport targets, atv's, water coolers and range officials. 

I understand "expansion" calls for a lot of things to fall into place. At the same time it's obvious it has to happen and has been needed for some time and I do not mean just in the last month or so. I have to assume that steps are being taken to fix the major "problems" otherwise the deteriorating value of an ASA tournament would be depressing, i.e. some aspects of the ASA tournament experience is NOT as good as it once was and the fixes have not been communicated to the membership.


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## derwet (Jun 3, 2014)

Kstigall said:


> BUT the devil is in the details! All of what you mentioned requires a lot more resources. Man power, real estate, existing contracts and $$$ being the biggies. *IF* the real estate exists at the current site....... Can the McKenzie targets and practice bags be had and delivered for a reasonable cost? How many man hours does it take to build the additional competition lanes? How many man hours to build the practice ranges? How many man hours to build the bag range? Do we need to hire more people? More trailers to transport targets, atv's, water coolers and range officials.
> 
> I understand "expansion" calls for a lot of things to fall into place. At the same time it's obvious it has to happen and has been needed for some time and I do not mean just in the last month or so. I have to assume that steps are being taken to fix the major "problems" otherwise the deteriorating value of an ASA tournament would be depressing, i.e. some aspects of the ASA tournament experience is NOT as good as it once was and the fixes have not been communicated to the membership.


I don't completely agree or disagree with that assessment. It will take more money, resources, real estate, and time. However, the biggest factor usually boils down to money. The money being made by ASA is undoubtedly more than a couple of years ago. The same expenditures VS. the number of archers showing up now as compared to two years ago. The money has to be there to be able to invest in more targets, more time spent cutting lanes on new ranges. ASA cannot keep using the reason of increased attendance to explain away over-crowded ranges and practice areas. They must expand to accommodate upwards of 2500 archers. They simply cannot remain planning tournaments based on 1800 shooters if they want to stay successful. Everything I am reading, the attendance is right at a tipping point. If ASA wants to remain successful, they need to either expand or limit registrations to less than 2000 shooters. The money should be there to invest in growing the events.


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## boilerfarmer12 (Nov 22, 2011)

its crazy to think how their is talk of limiting the number of shooters (which I tend to agree with) at an ASA event and the IBO cant get enough people.


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## blade37defender (Jun 8, 2005)

boilerfarmer12 said:


> its crazy to think how their is talk of limiting the number of shooters (which I tend to agree with) at an ASA event and the IBO cant get enough people.



Just like Redding is going to have to do also. They should limit each class based off range capacity, but never should there be more than 5 people at a stake for a national event. If you want to shoot, plan ahead. Otherwise, you take the risk of not getting to play.

Some of this may be alleviated if they were to set the circuit like the AMA does for the SX series for the 250/450 classes and I know this was attempted a few years back but hear me out... For amateurs have an east/west division and you must shoot all three to be eligible for shooter of the year in your class and then come together for the championship at the Classic. You choose your division based off your travel preferences or where you live. Pros have to shoot both divisions.

I'm just saying, I'd selfishly like to bring that back because then I could actually shoot enough to be in contention for a shooter of the year. I just don't have the vacation time to shoot 6-7 nationals a year.


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## cenochs (May 2, 2007)

Kstigall said:


> BUT the devil is in the details! All of what you mentioned requires a lot more resources. Man power, real estate, existing contracts and $$$ being the biggies. *IF* the real estate exists at the current site....... Can the McKenzie targets and practice bags be had and delivered for a reasonable cost? How many man hours does it take to build the additional competition lanes? How many man hours to build the practice ranges? How many man hours to build the bag range? Do we need to hire more people? More trailers to transport targets, atv's, water coolers and range officials.
> 
> I understand "expansion" calls for a lot of things to fall into place. At the same time it's obvious it has to happen and has been needed for some time and I do not mean just in the last month or so. I have to assume that steps are being taken to fix the major "problems" otherwise the deteriorating value of an ASA tournament would be depressing, i.e. some aspects of the ASA tournament experience is NOT as good as it once was and the fixes have not been communicated to the membership.


It does not take any more resources or $$ if you have 2 shoot times each day. This doubles your capacity. You pre- register and pick your shoot time or drag your feet and get what's left.. This would allow you to accommodate 400 shooters per class (5 per stake) This would help solve the issues without needing $ or resources. For the issues of practice bags and targets- allow only shooters that shoot the early shoot time to warm up before their shoot and after they go to the course the afternoon shooting time can practice. It will require someone checking score cards and enforcing the rules. Just a thought on the practice range issues...


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## blade37defender (Jun 8, 2005)

cenochs said:


> It does not take any more resources or $$ if you have 2 shoot times each day. This doubles your capacity. You pre- register and pick your shoot time or drag your feet and get what's left.. This would allow you to accommodate 400 shooters per class (5 per stake) This would help solve the issues without needing $ or resources. For the issues of practice bags and targets- allow only shooters that shoot the early shoot time to warm up before their shoot and after they go to the course the afternoon shooting time can practice. It will require someone checking score cards and enforcing the rules. Just a thought on the practice range issues...


I do like the idea of multiple shoot times, but rather than two times on Saturday and two on Sunday, I'd like to see Friday afternoon, 2 on Saturday, and Sunday morning. Late Sunday times would make it tough to get back home and go to work on Monday. If you pre-register, you could pick the two times you want to shoot until those slots are filled. Seems logical enough and you wouldn't require more resources/man-power.


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

cenochs said:


> It does not take any more resources or $$ if you have 2 shoot times each day. This doubles your capacity. You pre- register and pick your shoot time or drag your feet and get what's left.. This would allow you to accommodate 400 shooters per class (5 per stake) This would help solve the issues without needing $ or resources. For the issues of practice bags and targets- allow only shooters that shoot the early shoot time to warm up before their shoot and after they go to the course the afternoon shooting time can practice. It will require someone checking score cards and enforcing the rules. Just a thought on the practice range issues...


Even having two shoot times a day eats up resources! How do you think cores get replaced and water coolers refilled. Range officials would be on the ranges for twice as long (over time $$) unless you add officials. A mid-day shoot time on Sunday would be difficult. Basically you wouldn't start pulling ranges no earlier than 3 or 4 in the afternoon and wouldn't be finished completely packing before what 8 or 9? Would you hold the shoot offs for after the last shoot time on Sunday? Would that mean another night in a hotel for ASA employees?


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## rvkhan (Dec 31, 2003)

Kstigall said:


> Even having two shoot times a day eats up resources! How do you think cores get replaced and water coolers refilled. Range officials would be on the ranges for twice as long (over time $$) unless you add officials. A mid-day shoot time on Sunday would be difficult. Basically you wouldn't start pulling ranges no earlier than 3 or 4 in the afternoon and wouldn't be finished completely packing before what 8 or 9? Would you hold the shoot offs for after the last shoot time on Sunday? Would that mean another night in a hotel for ASA employees?


Very valid point!! I mean when is enough, enough? I'm not sure what the answer is other than limiting the amount of participants.


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## cenochs (May 2, 2007)

Kstigall said:


> Even having two shoot times a day eats up resources! How do you think cores get replaced and water coolers refilled. Range officials would be on the ranges for twice as long (over time $$) unless you add officials. A mid-day shoot time on Sunday would be difficult. Basically you wouldn't start pulling ranges no earlier than 3 or 4 in the afternoon and wouldn't be finished completely packing before what 8 or 9? Would you hold the shoot offs for after the last shoot time on Sunday? Would that mean another night in a hotel for ASA employees?


2 shoot times was the ASA format in the beginning and I think it worked out..Now for the cores just have the shooters on the first shoot time replace the ones that are shot up when they shoot their last arrow for the next group that could be a solution. Extra cores you got me on that! The shoot off classes would not be full so you would not have to worry about not having time for them to shoot off it would go on regularly scheduled. For the participants that got the late shoot time on Sunday they would miss the shoot off and have a late ride home. I don't think any Pro Class will have over 200 shooters including K50 for the time being. You got me on the hotel rooms that would be an expense. If adding more ranges is a better solution I hope the ASA contract with the host cities had a clause that if growth exceeds a certain number over a period of time they can look for other venues without getting penalized.


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## skiingcappy (May 17, 2013)

All I have to say is everyone on here that is not happy having to shoot both on the same day to either voice your opinion to Mike at the tournament , send him an email or post in forum on ASA site. Enough people complain and something will get changed.


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## GMC46514 (Dec 15, 2014)

well I'll be shooting the First Flight... G/H... target 4. What's the "powerline"?


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## sagecreek (Jul 15, 2003)

Powerline is an actual power line running through the woods on the hillside.


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## sagecreek (Jul 15, 2003)

Maybe we need to add lights and shoot at night.


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## GMC46514 (Dec 15, 2014)

MMM. sounds hot. and hard to see. Does anyone know if my range (G/H) are on the power line? if so, anyone want to trade me? maybe i'll just buy 3 lbs of mingua beef jerky and watch everyone else struggle


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

GMC46514 said:


> MMM. sounds hot. and hard to see. Does anyone know if my range (G/H) are on the power line? if so, anyone want to trade me? maybe i'll just buy 3 lbs of mingua beef jerky and watch everyone else struggle


I've shot on the power line many times over the years and I don't understand why folks act like it's a big deal.


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## jimb (Feb 17, 2003)

Kstigall said:


> I've shot on the power line many times over the years and I don't understand why folks act like it's a big deal.


I agree, I don't like the walk up there but the shooting is fine once I get there.


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

Kstigall said:


> I've shot on the power line many times over the years and I don't understand why folks act like it's a big deal.


Kent....I think the deal is just that walk....and if it's been really dry that dust that flys from the trucks going to the top


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

bhtr3d said:


> Kent....I think the deal is just that walk....and if it's been really dry that dust that flys from the trucks going to the top


Did that hike a few times while shooting Super Senior and Senior Master. Not that big of a deal if your knees can hold up.


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## GMC46514 (Dec 15, 2014)

can I drive my truck up there? I'm young enough to make it. but I'm lazy. lol. and I'm guessing G/H (Open C first flight) is going to be on the line.


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## sagecreek (Jul 15, 2003)

Really didn't appreciate the trucks coming through when I was trying to shoot. It's really distracting. JMO.


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## GMC46514 (Dec 15, 2014)

LOL, well, if a truck driving by is distracting, I'd hate to shoot in your group... It's supposed to be fun, not a funeral.

why are they driving trucks up and down this hill anyways?


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## blade37defender (Jun 8, 2005)

GMC46514 said:


> LOL, well, if a truck driving by is distracting, I'd hate to shoot in your group... It's supposed to be fun, not a funeral.
> 
> why are they driving trucks up and down this hill anyways?


It's distracting because it causes a dust storm if it's been dry. It doesn't bother me as far as making the shot, just hate the dust flying and getting on everything.


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## pointndog (Jul 14, 2005)

sagecreek said:


> Really didn't appreciate the trucks coming through when I was trying to shoot. It's really distracting. JMO.


Totally agree, but if I walked myself all the way back there and then the others are driving there, it really pizzed me off. Also it don't help that it is so fricken hot and walking back there.


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## sagecreek (Jul 15, 2003)

pointndog said:


> Totally agree, but if I walked myself all the way back there and then the others are driving there, it really pizzed me off. Also it don't help that it is so fricken hot and walking back there.


It looks like it's a 1/2 mile hike up and down hills. I wouldn't want to walk it either with all my equipment and then have to shoot. Wish there was an access road coming in from the back side.


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## sagecreek (Jul 15, 2003)

Pic from last years thread on London


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

bhtr3d said:


> Kent....I think the deal is just that walk....and if it's been really dry that dust that flys from the trucks going to the top


I understand but my father walked it many times with a defribillator in his chest and he was over 70. What is it .5 to .75 of a mile and we have a lot of time to make the walk.



GMC46514 said:


> can I drive my truck up there? I'm young enough to make it. but I'm lazy. lol. and I'm guessing G/H (Open C first flight) is going to be on the line.


Generally speaking yes. However, if there is a long line of vehicles waiting to go in I found it mote efficient to walk to the front of the line and hop in a vehicle with space. Last time they made anyone with room take a waiting archer. Do NOT sit on the tailgate or everything may be heavily coated in dust. Last year I had my young side kicks drop me off and pick me up since it was my truck and I threatened to leave them in London if they didn't.

Personally, I really don't think it's worth the inconvenience to drive unless you truly need the wheels.



sagecreek said:


> Really didn't appreciate the trucks coming through when I was trying to shoot. It's really distracting. JMO.


I don't find the moving trucks distracting but if the dust really rolls and it's problem for shooters then the ASA MUST stop all vehicles from moving. The impact of the dust is dependent on the water and wind.


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## GMC46514 (Dec 15, 2014)

well, I'm hoofing it then. i'll bring rocks to throw at trucks. 

What range is g/h on the map you posted?


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## Huntin Hard (Aug 8, 2011)

GMC46514 said:


> well, I'm hoofing it then. i'll bring rocks to throw at trucks.
> 
> What range is g/h on the map you posted?


You won't know where the ranges are for sure until you get there but last year they were on the power line if I'm not mistaking


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## GMC46514 (Dec 15, 2014)

well way to make me feel like this is going to suck. that paired with the fact that truball isn't bringing their new release. so now I have nothing to look forward to.


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## sagecreek (Jul 15, 2003)

I got to shoot the lower ranges next year down by the lower ball field. I hope I get to again.


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## jphudgens (Nov 23, 2015)

I don't mind shooting all in one day. One less night I have to spend on a hotel. The long waits are tough tho.


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## robinhedd (Sep 12, 2007)

Ill be there on G/H myself, cant wait!


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## GMC46514 (Dec 15, 2014)

robinhedd said:


> Ill be there on G/H myself, cant wait!


YOU'RE GOING DOWN SUCKER!!!!! LOL. just kidding. it should be fun. i'll ask everyone I see if they are "robinhedd"


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## robinhedd (Sep 12, 2007)

GMC46514 said:


> YOU'RE GOING DOWN SUCKER!!!!! LOL. just kidding. it should be fun. i'll ask everyone I see if they are "robinhedd"


Hell, u can ask me. Shoot me a PM. Good luck shooting, Robinhedd


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## BowHuntnKY (Dec 10, 2008)

G and H aren't always on the power lines...


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