# String layout, how much percentage to add to length to start?



## eyedoc (Aug 17, 2005)

I am new to making strings/cables and have a question about layout length. I currently have a Little John jig, stretcher, twister...

I will be using Astro, my main question is how much longer do I layout the strings/cables. Is there a formula for this. I will likely have a twist every 1.5 inches in my string/cable. For most setups, I will likely be using an 18 strand string/cable. 

Any help in this matter would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks


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## fasteddie2488 (May 8, 2009)

I always do 1.25% longer on my strings and cables. Some people use 1% more I just like the 1.25% personally. So on a 90 inch string use the formula 90x1.0125=91.125.


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## Andy. (Jan 12, 2011)

I like 1% myself.


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## bbjavelina (Jan 30, 2005)

I also use 1% but round down to the nearest reasonable fraction.


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## eyedoc (Aug 17, 2005)

Thank you very much for the responses. Hope to make a high quality set in the next week.


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## baldyhunter (Jan 22, 2006)

It really depends on how much tension your stretching under...how long your stretching...and your prefered twist rate. I always start the string at least 1/8" shorter than the desired finished length for Astro, 452-x, and Trophy.


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## dwagoner (Sep 27, 2007)

like BALDY said how much twist you put in matters, i use 1-1.33 and have a chart i use, with 452x and trophy works great for me, ive used with some astro and finishes good also, if you want the chart to check out PM me your email and ill forword, its used by others that i know of for sure.


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## chuckatuk (May 28, 2003)

dwagoner said:


> like BALDY said how much twist you put in matters, i use 1-1.33 and have a chart i use, with 452x and trophy works great for me, ive used with some astro and finishes good also, if you want the chart to check out PM me your email and ill forword, its used by others that i know of for sure.


Does it matter for 1 color strings vs 2 color.Do you twist the 2 color more?


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## Spotshooter2 (Oct 23, 2003)

chuckatuk said:


> Does it matter for 1 color strings vs 2 color.Do you twist the 2 color more?


No , same twist rate for single or two color strings


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## eyedoc (Aug 17, 2005)

dwagoner said:


> like BALDY said how much twist you put in matters, i use 1-1.33 and have a chart i use, with 452x and trophy works great for me, ive used with some astro and finishes good also, if you want the chart to check out PM me your email and ill forword, its used by others that i know of for sure.


PM sent, thank you!


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## eyedoc (Aug 17, 2005)

baldyhunter said:


> It really depends on how much tension your stretching under...how long your stretching...and your prefered twist rate. I always start the string at least 1/8" shorter than the desired finished length for Astro, 452-x, and Trophy.


I have a Little John, and usually will stretch at 300lbs for about the time it takes me to put the serving on.


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## Spotshooter2 (Oct 23, 2003)

baldyhunter said:


> It really depends on how much tension your stretching under...how long your stretching...and your prefered twist rate. I always start the string at least 1/8" shorter than the desired finished length for Astro, 452-x, and Trophy.


 Baldyhunter , are you saying you don't add anything to the length to adjust for the twist rate ? There is no way with Trophy that if your layout is 1/8 shorter than the finished length that they are going to stretch that much and be able to put twists into the string and be the right length.


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

I use 1.25% longer for all my stuff. I have a simple spreadsheet that calculates any percentage you want just by adding in the numbers. PM me your email and I'll send it to you.


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

Here's some partial pictures of the calculator. I have a download (C) 2011 available for $5 (to cover handling time) in the classifieds... http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1429134


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## Moparmatty (Jun 23, 2003)

Spotshooter2 said:


> Baldyhunter , are you saying you don't add anything to the length to adjust for the twist rate ? There is no way with Trophy that if your layout is 1/8 shorter than the finished length that they are going to stretch that much and be able to put twists into the string and be the right length.


I think what he's saying is that he twists the string 1/8" short before stretching to full tension to serve.


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## ex-wolverine (Dec 31, 2004)

What he is saying, if he has a 90" inch string, he lays it out for 89 7/8" to allow for settleing in...



Spotshooter2 said:


> Baldyhunter , are you saying you don't add anything to the length to adjust for the twist rate ? There is no way with Trophy that if your layout is 1/8 shorter than the finished length that they are going to stretch that much and be able to put twists into the string and be the right length.


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## Moparmatty (Jun 23, 2003)

ex-wolverine said:


> What he is saying, if he has a 90" inch string, he lays it out for 89 7/8" to allow for settleing in...



So instead of: 90" x 1.01 = 90.9"

You're saying: 89-7/8" x 1.01 = 90.77" (90 -3/4")?


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## bbjavelina (Jan 30, 2005)

I'm of the belief that it's also very important how much tension you put on the spool when you're laying up, and whether or not your laying up against a spring or firmly fixed post. For me, at least, it was necessary to waste a few ounces of fiber to get it all to come out right.

Learn on cables and not on single cam strings --- only half the material.

Best of luck to you.


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## WDMJR3DBOWGUY (Dec 2, 2003)

I use a 1/4 inch for every 30 inches
(string length/30= a x .25= b +string length= length to set jig)
60/30= 2x.25= .5 + 60+ 60.5
It is a very consistent formula and has about a 1.25 twist rate for every 1 inch.


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## baldyhunter (Jan 22, 2006)

Spotshooter2 said:


> Baldyhunter , are you saying you don't add anything to the length to adjust for the twist rate ? There is no way with Trophy that if your layout is 1/8 shorter than the finished length that they are going to stretch that much and be able to put twists into the string and be the right length.


That's exactly what I'm saying. I should qualify that by saying that I stretch my strings far longer than the average string maker and at greater tension (ever wonder why mine cost more than the others LOL). For example, if I'm making a 22 strand 452-X string or a 20 strand Trophy string at say 61"...I actually set up the ends of my 4 post at 60 13/16". I use a twist rate of .625 X string length (then add about 4 or 5 twists after serving to equalize twist rate through the served and non served area) for a finished twist rate of just shy of 1 twist to 1.5" of string. The cables I set up about 1/8" less than the finished length. And I do exactly what you suggest.....stretch them so much that even after I twist them they are longer than when they were set up. This makes for a very stable string that does not move after being shot in. I thought twice about posting that info because I figured there'd be non-believers.


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## 60X (Nov 8, 2002)

I'm with baldy. I set 452x and trophy 1/8" short and astro 3/16-1/4" short and stretch to length


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## baldyhunter (Jan 22, 2006)

60X said:


> I'm with baldy. I set 452x and trophy 1/8" short and astro 3/16-1/4" short and stretch to length


Sounds like we've both come to the same conclusion....reassuring from a string maker with your reputation !


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## WDMJR3DBOWGUY (Dec 2, 2003)

baldyhunter said:


> That's exactly what I'm saying. I should qualify that by saying that I stretch my strings far longer than the average string maker and at greater tension (ever wonder why mine cost more than the others LOL). For example, if I'm making a 22 strand 452-X string or a 20 strand Trophy string at say 61"...I actually set up the ends of my 4 post at 60 13/16". I use a twist rate of .625 X string length (then add about 4 or 5 twists after serving to equalize twist rate through the served and non served area) for a finished twist rate of just shy of 1 twist to 1.5" of string. The cables I set up about 1/8" less than the finished length. And I do exactly what you suggest.....stretch them so much that even after I twist them they are longer than when they were set up. This makes for a very stable string that does not move after being shot in. I thought twice about posting that info because I figured there'd be non-believers.


I'm not a non believer, just wondering how long and how hard you stretch it. I know all string makers have their own little system, but I've always been under the notion that you can also over stretch and cause the fibers damage.


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## Moparmatty (Jun 23, 2003)

baldyhunter said:


> That's exactly what I'm saying. I should qualify that by saying that I stretch my strings far longer than the average string maker and at greater tension (ever wonder why mine cost more than the others LOL). For example, if I'm making a 22 strand 452-X string or a 20 strand Trophy string at say 61"...I actually set up the ends of my 4 post at 60 13/16". I use a twist rate of .625 X string length (then add about 4 or 5 twists after serving to equalize twist rate through the served and non served area) for a finished twist rate of just shy of 1 twist to 1.5" of string. The cables I set up about 1/8" less than the finished length. And I do exactly what you suggest.....stretch them so much that even after I twist them they are longer than when they were set up. This makes for a very stable string that does not move after being shot in. I thought twice about posting that info because I figured there'd be non-believers.


Forgive me for being thickheaded. 

Are you saying the 60-13/16" length is before or after twisting?


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## baldyhunter (Jan 22, 2006)

Moparmatty said:


> Forgive me for being thickheaded.
> 
> Are you saying the 60-13/16" length is before or after twisting?


That would be the very start....while laying out the strands and before twisting or stretching.


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## baldyhunter (Jan 22, 2006)

WDMJR3DBOWGUY said:


> I'm not a non believer, just wondering how long and how hard you stretch it. I know all string makers have their own little system, but I've always been under the notion that you can also over stretch and cause the fibers damage.


I'll give my secrets today....just this once LOL

I stretch at 400 to 425 lbs for 1/2 hour. Then when I serve the strings I serve them under 400 lbs of tension again and that adds to the stretch time as well. The string also gets 10 minutes at 150lbs before I twist to help equalize strand tension.


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## CandianQuest (Mar 31, 2010)

baldyhunter said:


> I'll give my secrets today....just this once LOL
> 
> I stretch at 400 to 425 lbs for 1/2 hour. Then when I serve the strings I serve them under 400 lbs of tension again and that adds to the stretch time as well. The string also gets 10 minutes at 150lbs before I twist to help equalize strand tension.


Just curious do you twist the strings under the initial 150lbs (though as you twist it would get higher tension).


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## baldyhunter (Jan 22, 2006)

CandianQuest said:


> Just curious do you twist the strings under the initial 150lbs (though as you twist it would get higher tension).


After the 10 minutes at 150 lbs I cranck the tension up to over 200lbs then begin twisting.


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## Moparmatty (Jun 23, 2003)

baldyhunter said:


> That would be the very start....while laying out the strands and before twisting or stretching.


I find this very interesting. You, 60X, and I'm sure few others are starting out with layouts less than the finished lengths. I thought the popular consensus was to add 1% to the wanted string length. I wonder if this is because you guys are stretching at 400-500 pounds?

The 1% addition with 1 twist/1.333" work great for me with 452X. 1% with 1 twist/1.667" gave me a 1/4" long on everything with Astroflight.


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## brandonlw (Feb 23, 2011)

marking for later


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## Nitroboy (Jan 15, 2006)

I add 1/8" to what ever I make, doesn't matter the length, just built a set this morning for a SBxt and the string and cable came out dead on length, I use 1 3/8" twist ratio and stretch at 400+ lbs for about 20-30 mins before I twist up and then serve, never dropping the tension so it's on for prob 45mins to an hour at 400+ lbs, I only use 452x cause it works best for me


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## d_ninja (Oct 29, 2010)

brandonlw said:


> marking for later


x 2.


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