# Shibuya vs Axcel?



## MickeyBisco (Jul 14, 2012)

Because you like they way it looks. 

Functionally they are both top notch, but so is a used Sure-Loc.


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## huckduck (Nov 24, 2014)

one you remove the pin to store it, one you remove the entire sight block. kind of a deal breaker there. anywho, i'm shooting a sureloc and honestly, i can't out shoot it... mind you i don't think i could out shoot a cartel.


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## toj (Aug 22, 2012)

The shibuya is everything you'll ever need in a sight.

But then everyone will know you didn't buy the most expensive thing out there and you'll face ridicule forever more.


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## BaconRocks (Sep 16, 2012)

Axcel has awesome customer service, I bought a used sight off here and when it had issues they fixed it for free even though I wasn't the original owner. Any of the top sights will get the job done though


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## erose (Aug 12, 2014)

I own three Shibuyas and bottom line they are the best on the market. I haven’t used an Axcel, and I’m not going to comment on it as a sight.

With the Shibuya, whether compound or recurve, the clicks are precise, and no lock knobs needed after making an adjustment setting. 

IMO it’s impossible to have a better sight than the Shibuya. Not saying isn’t any out there that don’t rival it, but I just think it’s impossible to do better.


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## Montalaar (Jan 26, 2008)

Well, without ever using in Axcel how can you say that the Shibuya is the best on the market? Wouldn't it be necessary to at least have tested both?

Hard to argue against the price difference, but eventually it all boils down to looks and whether you prefer to take of the pin or the whole slider, i guess.


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## erose (Aug 12, 2014)

Montalaar said:


> Well, without ever using in Axcel how can you say that the Shibuya is the best on the market? Wouldn't it be necessary to at least have tested both?
> 
> Hard to argue against the price difference, but eventually it all boils down to looks and whether you prefer to take of the pin or the whole slider, i guess.


What I’m saying is you cannot get any better than the Shibuya, because of its quality. IMO the Axcel or any other brand can only achieve being on the level of the Shibuya, not surpassing it. 

Concerning the removing the whole assembly or just the pin, I’ve thought this a pain. I just set it where my sight marks say to set it, if I can’t remember them off hand. Where I see the pin only being an advantage is if you have a sight, that isn’t as precise and can’t be trusted, such as the old Fivics sight my son used to use.


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## Arsi (May 14, 2011)

Alohaguy said:


> What's is the difference, why should I spend an extra $100 for the Axcel recurve sight vs the Shibuya Ultima RC?





MickeyBisco said:


> Because you like they way it looks.


Essentially this is the correct answer. I currently own and currently shoot the Axcel RX on my indoor bow and the new Shibuya Ultima II RC on my outdoor bow. I did have one problem with the Axcel in Florida which I repaired on my own. Granted it was the original run Axcel sight that I purchased when it first came out in 2012/2013 in Vegas.

There are differences between the two other than the way the apertures mount as mentioned earlier in the thread. The biggest difference between the two are the windage and elevation adjustments. The elevation on the Axcel is more fine than the Shibuya. The Axcel is 0.00156" per click where the Shibuya is 0.002" per click. Will you notice this difference? No. The windage adjustment on the Axcel is also 0.00156" and the Shibuya is 0.0016". Same question, will you notice this difference? No.

Where you WILL notice the difference is the amount of windage and elevation you can move on the bar. The newest Shibuyas have a shorter elevation bar. It really isn't a big deal nowadays unless you shoot the full FITA. 

However when you look at the windage, the total range of travel on the Axcel is 243 clicks where the total range of travel on the Shibya is 142 clicks. This is ENORMOUS. Keep in mind that it is 20 clicks per full turn so the Axcel has just over 5 full turns of windage adjustment over the Shibuya (essentially 2.5 more turns left or right on the Axcel over the Shibuya). If you're like me and crank the sight rather than aim off very often, then this can definitely pose a problem. Let's just say that I learned to aim off more often while shooting the Shibuya towards the last half of the 2017 tournament season and I arguably did significantly better aiming off rather than cranking the sight.

My numbers may not be concrete as this isn't published anywhere. This is just in my notes that I wrote down when I was comparing both of them so your # of clicks may be more or less, but I wouldn't imagine it to be too far off from my numbers.

EDIT: Forgot to post my opinion on the topic. I have shot great scores with both sights. I have swapped sights on and off my indoor bow and outdoor bow and noticed no accuracy differences. If none of the above bothers you, pick which one you think looks the coolest on your bow and call it a day.

EDIT 2: Forgot to also mention that typically one full turn of the windage knob is the same as one full turn on the aperture itself. The Shibuya has a super easy hex screw that you can loosen to easily adjust the aperture. Way easier than the Axcel. I have definitely made this adjustment during a tournament and have had no ill effects. This scenario usually plays out as follows:

1) Oh dang, I ran out of windage. I need to move one more turn to the right.
2) Click my windage one turn to the LEFT.
3) Undo the hex key and add two turns to the RIGHT.
4) Proceed to shoot a 10.

What this has done is it has given me a 20 click buffer in case I need to keep adjusting in the same direction. Once again, YMMV. I only did this during a tournament because I practiced this during training. You need to fully understand how your kit will react in all circumstances.


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## zal (May 1, 2007)

I have flawlessly functioning Shibuyas from the 90s, the jury is still out on Axcel.


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## erose (Aug 12, 2014)

That is also my experience. Like I said I own three Shibuya sights and have never had any issues with any of them, out of the box. Maybe I’ve been lucky, but so far I just have no complaints about them.


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## tunedlow (Nov 7, 2012)

Wasn't there a thread about someone complaining about a spring on the Shibuya windage block coming loose?

I got an Excel because it was used on the classifieds. Had it been an Shibuya I probably would have gotten that too. You can't really go wrong with either brand. The vertical adjustment on the shibuya is better though.


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## huckduck (Nov 24, 2014)

tunedlow said:


> The vertical adjustment on the shibuya is better though.


Hmm.. Elaborate please.


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## caspian (Jan 13, 2009)

I have 6 Shibuya Ultimas and 2 Axcels.

considerations that matter to me - 

- none have given problems. I have seen one ham-fisted person break the quick-travel thumb lever on a Shibuya.
- I much prefer the detachable nosepiece on the Axcel for transport storage, it is a much better system than having to remove the entire sight block of the Shibuya. it is also considerably cheaper if you want to have a few different nosepieces with different pins/scopes/mirrors.
- the general adjustment of the Axcel is slightly superior.
- the build quality of both is excellent and cannot be faulted.
- the Shibuya is 2/3rds the price of the Axcel (in carbon extension) and is therefore considerably superior value for money.
- Pee Wee Doinkers have been available in metric to suit the Shibuya for some time.
- the Axcel has a 



both would make the prospective owner very happy. if price is no object, or you really need interchangeable pin/scope capability, get the Axcel. otherwise the Shibuya wins due to the significant price difference.


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## lksseven (Mar 21, 2010)

Alohaguy said:


> What's is the difference, why should I spend an extra $100 for the Axcel recurve sight vs the Shibuya Ultima RC?


I have shot probably 80,000 arrows with the Shibuya, then gave it to a student and bought the Axcel (and have put about 80,000 arrows through the Axcel). Both are excellent, high quality sights. I went to the Axcel, instead of another Shibuya, because 1) I prefer to have to remove only the pin, 2) I liked the way it looks, and 3) I really like the Truball company and try to support them when the occasion arises.

If only all archery choices (or Life choices for that matter!) were so "can't lose either way" ...


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## derpa-fox (Jan 18, 2015)

I haven't shot the SureLoc before but I had some heavy usage on the Shibuya Ultima before switching to the Axcel. In my opinion, I saw nothing wrong with the functionality of the Shibuya. It never rattled, fell off or even loosened. I was lucky enough to find a LH Axcel RCBL in blue with minimal usage for $300, which is why I switched to it. As Iksseven said, I prefer the remove the pin instead of changing the whole windage block (It makes experimenting with different apertures easier too) and I like the way it looked. Ultimately, it comes down to personal preference.


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## L31_06 (Dec 3, 2017)

Did someone mention Sure-loc?

I’ve had these since 2005. I recently picked up this 12” extension. Toying with this concept of a longer extension bar.


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## tunedlow (Nov 7, 2012)

huckduck said:


> Hmm.. Elaborate please.


I am familiar with the feel of the vertical adjustment on the Sure Loc, the Shibuya sights as well as the Axcel AX4500. The RX/RXL was just released at the time when I got it so I never got a chance to see it firsthand at a tradeshow booth. I was surprised to find that the vertical adjustment knob on the RX/RXL is smaller than the RX4500, is powder coated smooth and does not turn as smoothly/easily as the Shibuya or the Sure Loc. The comparison isn't even funny. I don;t know why they don't have the textured knob from the AX4500 on the RX/RXL sights because that smooth finish on the RX/RXL is not as easy to grip. I've asked Axcel about the toughness of the vertical adjustment at Vegas and the guy just said that was how they designed it so I stuck with the thing because I figured if it doesn't move as well then the chances of it vibrating loose is slim - and this is true. I've oiled the tar out of the screw and over the years its become easier to adjust. 

As far as QC on the Axcel, I do have particular things about the RX/RXL that surprised me. For as much as they sell, I saw tool marks on the mounting block and the sight itself. Granted its cosmetic but I imagine if Tru-Ball wants to sell a sight for 300 some bucks, I'd expect to see no tooling marks on the thing like some kid filed it wrong because these are cut by CNC if I understand correctly. I see tooling marks on the sight itself, the sight bar and the dovetail windage block. Cosmetic gripe aside, the Axcel only has one thing that can come lose -the dovetail sight block and I've never had it vibrate free. The mounting block itself ain't coming off so short of using the thing as a hammer or dropping my bow sight-first, I imagine the thing will last a very long long time. 

If I could redo it, I'd get a used Shibuya sight or even a Sure Loc because they seem to pop up more now than when I got my Axcel. I like the range of adjustment on the Axcel windage compared to the Shibuya but I prefer the feel and design of the vertical adjustment on the Shibuya by a looong shot and would get the Shibuya just based on that.


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## SHPoet (Nov 13, 2009)

erose said:


> I own three Shibuyas and bottom line they are the best on the market. I haven’t used an Axcel, and I’m not going to comment on it as a sight.
> 
> With the Shibuya, whether compound or recurve, the clicks are precise, and no lock knobs needed after making an adjustment setting.
> 
> ...


Wow. Just wow.....

One thing, Axcel is made in the USA.


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## x-hunta (Mar 10, 2010)

tunedlow said:


> I am familiar with the feel of the vertical adjustment on the Sure Loc, the Shibuya sights as well as the Axcel AX4500. The RX/RXL was just released at the time when I got it so I never got a chance to see it firsthand at a tradeshow booth. I was surprised to find that the vertical adjustment knob on the RX/RXL is smaller than the RX4500, is powder coated smooth and does not turn as smoothly/easily as the Shibuya or the Sure Loc. The comparison isn't even funny. I don;t know why they don't have the textured knob from the AX4500 on the RX/RXL sights because that smooth finish on the RX/RXL is not as easy to grip.


This was fixed after the first year of production, the new knobs now have a texture to them. I also know that they were replacing the smooth knobs free of charge as I had them replaced on my 2 Achieve sights.


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## tunedlow (Nov 7, 2012)

x-hunta said:


> This was fixed after the first year of production, the new knobs now have a texture to them. I also know that they were replacing the smooth knobs free of charge as I had them replaced on my 2 Achieve sights.


Nice! I will contact them about it. I never liked the knob on the RX so i just tolerated it for years.

RE: the windage knob on the Axcel, I usually don't have to adjust the windage a ton on my sight but when I do need to adjust the aperture on the sight pin block I've affixed the aperture onto the block with a split washer and a knurled thumb screw so I can adjust the aperture without reaching for any tools on the line.


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## Maggiemaebe (Jan 10, 2017)

tunedlow said:


> Nice! I will contact them about it. I never liked the knob on the RX so i just tolerated it for years.
> 
> RE: the windage knob on the Axcel, I usually don't have to adjust the windage a ton on my sight but when I do need to adjust the aperture on the sight pin block I've affixed the aperture onto the block with a split washer and a knurled thumb screw so I can adjust the aperture without reaching for any tools on the line.


The tools for aperture lock-nut to the aperture block is the only downside I've ever found on the Axcel too. Could you please post pics of your solution to adjust the aperture? I'm intrigued and would love to try it! Cheers, j


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## Jay-El (Oct 16, 2012)

MickeyBisco said:


> Because you like they way it looks.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## martinfuchs (Jan 18, 2017)

tunedlow said:


> Nice! I will contact them about it. I never liked the knob on the RX so i just tolerated it for years.
> 
> RE: the windage knob on the Axcel, I usually don't have to adjust the windage a ton on my sight but when I do need to adjust the aperture on the sight pin block I've affixed the aperture onto the block with a split washer and a knurled thumb screw so I can adjust the aperture without reaching for any tools on the line.


Yes, could you please post a photo of your solution, that would be helpful. It’s the one thing that bothers me too about my Axcel sight.


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## tunedlow (Nov 7, 2012)

Maggiemaebe said:


> The tools for aperture lock-nut to the aperture block is the only downside I've ever found on the Axcel too. Could you please post pics of your solution to adjust the aperture? I'm intrigued and would love to try it! Cheers, j


Here ya go. I bought the knurled thumb nut from Home Depot and there is a split washer between the nut and the black dovetail block. For insurance, I have a very small dab of removable loc-tite. Holds pretty well and works for me.


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## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

I, either individually or on behalf of my students, have owned at least ten of each and many more surelocs.

Here is my position

Sureloc advantages

they have the best system for easy removal and changing the aperture. The little knurled nut and washer is superior to the 8/32 nuts Axcel uses. For field archery where you might bust an aperture I always used sureloc. They are well made-especially the Illinois and then Indiana versions. Their lack of color choices were probably the biggest ding against them

Shibuya-best cost to value-as a dealer I can these 100 dollars less than the axcel/ biggest ding against them-you have to buy an entire windage block for over 100 bucks rather than 20 dollar part if you want to quickly change apertures. They have lots of colors. and very reliable

Axcel-biggest ding-the aperture holder comes with couple nuts that require wrenches to tighten. they also cost the most. I have yet to have one fail 

bottom line-I have used all three with at least 2 years (axcel), 20 years for sure loc (though injury ended my recurve career I have SLs on my WCSA target crossbows) and Shibuya (ever since the ultima came out

They all are great sights-for field sure loc is my choice, for indoor or outdoor target I favored the Shibuya.


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## huckduck (Nov 24, 2014)

isn't that essentially how the sureloc aperture blocks work anyways?


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## martinfuchs (Jan 18, 2017)

tunedlow said:


> Here ya go. I bought the knurled thumb nut from Home Depot and there is a split washer between the nut and the black dovetail block. For insurance, I have a very small dab of removable loc-tite. Holds pretty well and works for me.


Thank you for posting. I’ll see if I can find one of those to try that. 



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## Maggiemaebe (Jan 10, 2017)

tunedlow said:


> Here ya go. I bought the knurled thumb nut from Home Depot and there is a split washer between the nut and the black dovetail block. For insurance, I have a very small dab of removable loc-tite. Holds pretty well and works for me.


Thanks Tunelow!

That aperture's got some mileage on it !

I was picturing something like this but wanted to be sure. Completely makes sense since Axcel uses an 8/32 thread. I'll stop by HD on my way home and pick one up. Thanks again and cheers, j


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## tunedlow (Nov 7, 2012)

huckduck said:


> isn't that essentially how the sureloc aperture blocks work anyways?


sure - i mean, there are only so many ways you can lock the thread down from moving on the block. sureloc has a much smaller, nicer nut on their stuff that is either rubber or plastic lined to keep it from moving. i use loctite. i think sureloc may provide their nice nut with their sight- Axcel provides nothing from what i understand. i used to have a smaller hex nut on the aperture but i saw this knurled nut at home depot and it was a better choice. ive never seen the nice nut that comes on the sureloc for sale at a hardware store so this dollar investment for a pack of 3 was an easy solution.


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## huckduck (Nov 24, 2014)

tunedlow said:


> sure - i mean, there are only so many ways you can lock the thread down from moving on the block. sureloc has a much smaller, nicer nut on their stuff that is either rubber or plastic lined to keep it from moving. i use loctite. i think sureloc may provide their nice nut with their sight- Axcel provides nothing from what i understand. i used to have a smaller hex nut on the aperture but i saw this knurled nut at home depot and it was a better choice. ive never seen the nice nut that comes on the sureloc for sale at a hardware store so this dollar investment for a pack of 3 was an easy solution.


I think you could (if you wanted to splurge) get those washers from Lancaster. Beiter washers they are

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## kenfx0 (Mar 27, 2015)

So where did Sure-Loc go? 

KenF


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## tunedlow (Nov 7, 2012)

kenfx0 said:


> So where did Sure-Loc go?
> 
> KenF


I was going to ask the same thing. Website has no working product links for sights or scopes. Says they were rebuilding as of June 2017.......so...


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