# Hoyt cam timing question



## cjkozik (Jan 31, 2007)

post pictures


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## jrip (May 19, 2008)

Your bow is a hybrid cam bow, the cams are not mirror images of each other so they will not look the same at brace height. The most important thing is to have the cams draw stop timed at your draw length.


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## Roskoes (Jun 17, 2007)

There is more to this than just getting the cams draw stop timed. Follow Javi's recommendations. You need to keep twisting the buss cable until the draw weight is about 1 to 2 pounds over the rated maximum. Then go into the draw stop timing. And, in most cases, the top cam should hit about the thickness of a credit card ahead of the bottom cam. This, you will determine, through creep tuning.


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## jrip (May 19, 2008)

Roskoes said:


> There is more to this than just getting the cams draw stop timed. Follow Javi's recommendations. You need to keep twisting the buss cable until the draw weight is about 1 to 2 pounds over the rated maximum. Then go into the draw stop timing. And, in most cases, the top cam should hit about the thickness of a credit card ahead of the bottom cam. This, you will determine, through creep tuning.


Thats about 1/2 twist out of the control cable after the cams are synced. 99.99% of the archers out there wont ever know the difference.


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## BowKil (Mar 19, 2005)




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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Roskoes said:


> There is more to this than just getting the cams draw stop timed. Follow Javi's recommendations. You need to keep twisting the buss cable until the draw weight is about 1 to 2 pounds over the rated maximum. Then go into the draw stop timing. And, in most cases, the top cam should hit about the thickness of a credit card ahead of the bottom cam. This, you will determine, through creep tuning.





jrip said:


> Thats about 1/2 twist out of the control cable after the cams are synced. 99.99% of the archers out there wont ever know the difference.


Also depends on the ata of the bow and how well you have it draw stopped. Regardless, a bit quick on the top cam is considered better.


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## OBE (Dec 4, 2009)

Roskoes said:


> There is more to this than just getting the cams draw stop timed. Follow Javi's recommendations. You need to keep twisting the buss cable until the draw weight is about 1 to 2 pounds over the rated maximum. Then go into the draw stop timing. And, in most cases, the top cam should hit about the thickness of a credit card ahead of the bottom cam. This, you will determine, through creep tuning.


What is the purpose of twisting the buss cable over the rated maximum?


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

OBE said:


> What is the purpose of twisting the buss cable over the rated maximum?


You have to read javi's draw stop timing in Sticky of this forum, at top.

Basically, this is how it works out, draw weight will be a bit higher than listed. Adjusting for draw length normally brings everything back to where it should be. I would example a recent bow; the draw length was 67 pounds. Once draw length was corrected draw weight dropped to 61 to 62 pounds (I could care less about 1 or 2 pounds over). And like most bow manufacturers, ata is what it is once max listed poundage is met or near met. Check Birth Certificates of Bowtechs. Mine has 60.9 pounds of draw weight given.... Like all bows, dimensions and poundage are near, not always exact..... Of course, if the bow companies short someone 1 or 2 pounds of draw weight you'll hear the owner scream from here to h__ and back.


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## jrip (May 19, 2008)

SonnyThomas said:


> Also depends on the ata of the bow and how well you have it draw stopped. Regardless, a bit quick on the top cam is considered better.


You are correct, on Hoyts "hunting" bows with a ATA of 35" or less 1/2 twist out of the control cable should do you just fine. On Hoyts target bows Over 35" ATA it may take 1 - 1 1/2 twists out of the control cable.


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## OBE (Dec 4, 2009)

SonnyThomas said:


> You have to read javi's draw stop timing in Sticky of this forum, at top.
> 
> Basically, this is how it works out, draw weight will be a bit higher than listed. Adjusting for draw length normally brings everything back to where it should be. I would example a recent bow; the draw length was 67 pounds. Once draw length was corrected draw weight dropped to 61 to 62 pounds (I could care less about 1 or 2 pounds over). And like most bow manufacturers, ata is what it is once max listed poundage is met or near met. Check Birth Certificates of Bowtechs. Mine has 60.9 pounds of draw weight given.... Like all bows, dimensions and poundage are near, not always exact..... Of course, if the bow companies short someone 1 or 2 pounds of draw weight you'll hear the owner scream from here to h__ and back.


thanks for info.


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## jrip (May 19, 2008)

OBE said:


> What is the purpose of twisting the buss cable over the rated maximum?


Dont just twist the buss cable to make everything look good, set the bottom cam timing to spec then twist/untwist the control cable to get the top cam in sync. From there you can play with both cables to get the feel you like. Adding or removing a 1/2 twist or full twist to get the best results.


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## Rainmaker (Feb 16, 2003)

I have read Javi's original post in the hoyt draw stop thread. His instructions worked really well with an Xtec I had. 

I now have an AM 35, and I will say this is the hardest bow I have tried to tune. However, I'm not a pro shop bowtech. 

The problem I see with the sticky above, and most every post on every forum that I have read about tuning a hoyt is there is too much composition on "twist this and twist that". 

I would like to see (and I am sure many others out there would too) a hoyt expert really just break it down for us. 

Here's what I mean - a template of sorts. 

1. String - define it's purpose and the various aspects of the bow that can be controlled by twisting and untwisting the string i.e. making it shorter or longer. Does it control ATA? Can one set the draw length with the string? etc. 

2. Bus Cable - again - define it's purpose and what happens to the bow if a person shortens or lengthens it without altering the control cable or the string - according to Javi's information if one shortens the bus cable the bow's poundage will increase but so will the draw length - well, if one's draw length is where they want it how do we keep it from changing if we twist the bus to increase poundage? 

3. Control Cable - again, define it's purpose - according to Javi's instructions if we twist the control cable to shorten it the draw length and poundage will decrease - but there again - what if everything else is where we want it but we just need to decrease the draw 1/4" or so? How do we maintain poundage? 

Then - we have those folks that say it's an art. A balancing act between the bus, control, and string to get the bow "just right". We know that. We just don't know how to do that. 

On top of all of this what if you're like me and your local hoyt guy is a supreme *****? I need to know how to do this stuff myself so I never have to step in his shop again. 

As you can tell my bow isn't quite right yet, and I have only 3 weeks til opening day. So, I am a little on edge.


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## Gary Lee Head (Feb 5, 2007)

Rainmaker said:


> I have read Javi's original post in the hoyt draw stop thread. His instructions worked really well with an Xtec I had.
> 
> I now have an AM 35, and I will say this is the hardest bow I have tried to tune. However, I'm not a pro shop bowtech.
> 
> ...


X's 2 I also would like to have an experts breakdown on this,thanks.


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## nag (Jun 13, 2007)

Not sure I did it right, but I too tried to follow Jarvi's post to set up an Ultratec.
I started with the string going through the timing holes in the cams, and figured I was well with in the ball park, but upon rotation, the lower cam bottomed out well behind the upper draw stop.
I played around with the control cable and then buss cable until both cams hit at the same time.
And I lost the original cam hole start point.
At this point, the ATA and brace height was correct though, and the bow hit peak poundage at 70#.
I then set the nock point at 90 degrees and we went to walk back tuning.

Not knowing Hoyts and feeling pretty lucky that I got this far; when the arrows flew the same out to 40 yards, we quit and called it good. :thumbs_up


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## Rainmaker (Feb 16, 2003)

No Hoyt experts on here? Or at least none that have read this post? 

I hope someone does.


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## OrangeFan44 (Jan 19, 2010)

What would make things awesome for guys like us that want to know all the "hows" and "whys" is if the manufacturers just provided such when you bought your bow. Include a service manual or at least provide one on your website. Instead, we only get a warranty card and an accessories catalog. I understand they want you to take your bow to their service rep, but let's face it, my local Bowtech dealer knows half of what I know (and that's not saying much) and I wouldn't take it to him even if he was a genius. I am the type that likes to figure things out and do them myself.

But I second Rainmaker's request - a run down of the parts, their functions, and the adjustments possible with each of those parts and the outcomes of those adjustments would be fantastic.


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## Flyboy718 (May 20, 2008)

Rainmaker said:


> I have read Javi's original post in the hoyt draw stop thread. His instructions worked really well with an Xtec I had.
> 
> I now have an AM 35, and I will say this is the hardest bow I have tried to tune. However, I'm not a pro shop bowtech.
> 
> ...



X 3!! Yeah, this is EXACTLY what I have been thinking, we are in the same situation...can someone do the above for us?


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## OBE (Dec 4, 2009)

x4... for a step by step manual, please help us


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## Flyboy718 (May 20, 2008)

In the background crickets are chirping *chirp* *chirp* *chirp* *chirp* *chirp*


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## Reverend (Nov 2, 2004)

Maybe we can coax Javi back! Make him an offer he can't refuse...


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## little buddy (Dec 20, 2004)

With my Carbon Matrix I can only set my cams at full draw. This is because I ordered it with z3 cams and the timing marks are way of at brace. I don't even have a know ATA measurment to mantain. I guess this is the downside to a custom bow. On the upside the bow shoots just great and it must be very close to a perfect tune.. All i can do is check the poundage and sync the cams.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Last I heard, quite awhile ago now, javi had a stroke, on top of this his father passed away, and then I heard javi didn't recover from his stroke as well as he and a lot of us hoped. I wish him all the best.

I was a little taken back about the reply asking for a "Hoyt Expert." Hoyt has never stepped forward to acknowledge javi's finding and method and probably will never. Still, if you read Hoyt's manual and compare it to javi's you will find a few things worded different, but meaning the same thing. Where the confusion comes is through javi going farther in the total set up. There have been additional variations of the cam & 1/2, but so long as there is a flat groove in the top cam javi's method prevails. One thing people don't understand, the top cam is not a true cam. It is more a oval wheel. It was my honor to speak with javi per telephone. The man is a genius. During our conversation he admitted he was not a adept writer and some of his words or directions may confuse some. In his Sticky he does reply on several counts in attempt to get his method more understandable. If there is any question of being exact it would be setting the draw length and then the user backing off the limbs for the preferred draw weight - this, of course, more pertaining to the non-parallel, old standard limb angle. Still, understanding setting the draw length within javi's method one can adjust, tickle the draw length to one's liking.

Of note again; Some prefer the top cam to over rotate a bit quicker than the bottom. This "quicker" can be as little as a half twist. A final test would be having someone watch you come to full draw and note the cams coming to a stop - Okay, actual and that found using a draw broad can be the different.

A few cam systems are no different and can be timed through javi's method. One such factory has probably refined, maybe at least defined, or taken some confusion out of timing of their cam system. Check the Martin manual for their Catcam system, either old or the new Catcam 1.5 or 2.0. Their pics more define timing as pics of out of time and timed are side by side and other than the adjustable draw stop, it much mirrors the draw stop timing for Hoyts.

One has to work with javi's draw stop procedure. Okay, you need to work with it. You need a press, draw board (of some type) and then twist away. Get lost, go back to square one; make strings to factory specs and go again. The only thing you must understand is that whatever is used for timing marks are actually only reference points. Of the bows that I have setup through javi's method, the strings were equal distance off to each other - as such; the buss cable is to the outer side of the timing hole in the bottom cam and the control cable is to the inner side of the timing hole of the top cam. The wall of this bow is solid. The nock is zero and shooting through paper shows bullet hole. The bow is just plain accurate.

Hope I didn't mind warp anyone.


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