# difference between hot melt and hot glue gun glue sticks



## dylpickleeeeeee (Jun 6, 2013)

this may be the most absurd question, but is there any difference between hot melt and hot glue gun glue sticks?


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## hwjchan (Oct 24, 2011)

There may be in the composition, but I've always glued my points in with the same craft glue that you use in an ordinary hot glue gun. I can't recall ever losing a point yet.


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## gumibears (Jun 1, 2008)

Yes. Depending on the hot glue gun sticks you use, some are of a low melting point and will melt when entering the bale merely due to heat from friction on the point. I lost my first dozen points this way when I first started  They were craft glue gun sticks. I am pretty sure there are different grade ones even though they all are translucent.

To be safe, just use hot melt (tends to be dark amber in color but also comes in translucent).


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## dylpickleeeeeee (Jun 6, 2013)

gumibears said:


> Yes. Depending on the hot glue gun sticks you use, some are of a low melting point and will melt when entering the bale merely due to heat from friction on the point. I lost my first dozen points this way when I first started  They were craft glue gun sticks. I am pretty sure there are different grade ones even though they all are translucent.
> 
> To be safe, just use hot melt (tends to be dark amber in color but also comes in translucent).


oh thats a bummer  so what kind of hot melt do you recommend?


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## Dacer (Jun 10, 2013)

Just buy some of the sticks from LAS and heat the points with a flame ( alcohol is the cleanest burning) and then pass the glue stick over the point. 

Never lost a tip - even when pullin them out of wood.


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## lksseven (Mar 21, 2010)

FYI, in my experience Hot Melt glue, in order to 'hold at full strength', likes higher heat than can normally be achieved with a cigarette lighter. I heat my points over a gas stove in the kitchen.


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## gumibears (Jun 1, 2008)

As some of the others said, open flame works well from a gas stove or torch.

I use the hot melt that comes with the Easton ACE points. Here are the ones from lancaster: http://www.lancasterarchery.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=hot+melt&x=-973&y=-101
I personally have only had exp with CDM Flitemate Hot Melt Glue and Bohning Ferr-L-Tite Hot Melt Glue. Both of which work fine. The one that comes with the points works great cause it already comes with the points. A good glue is one that turns pretty much liquid when high heat is applied so that it kinda runs all over the point. Its more important to coat the whole point well enough, so that all of the metal shank is "glued" to the shaft.


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## dylpickleeeeeee (Jun 6, 2013)

Okay ill get some of the bohning glue then. thanks for the advice


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## dchan (Jun 29, 2004)

Another thought here..

If you get points that have the screw in weights for adjustable point weight, glue the weights into the points before gluing them into the shafts. having loose weights inside the point/shaft does make them fly different!


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## nick060200 (Jul 5, 2010)

So if you get high heat glue sticks that should be the same as the hot melt.?


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## caspian (Jan 13, 2009)

dylpickleeeeeee said:


> so what kind of hot melt do you recommend?


Easton hotmelt. never fails, just works. you'd have to be using an exceptional amount of it for price to be the remotest factor in usage. especially with the "shop" stick pricing. you're talking cents per set assembled.



nick060200 said:


> So if you get high heat glue sticks that should be the same as the hot melt.?


why would you even bother?

get the good stuff. it's cheap and works, every single time.

job done.


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## hdracer (Aug 8, 2007)

No more hot melt for me. I shoot a compound and have lost many tips shooting indoors and outdoors. Now I only use epoxy. I used a couple different types of hot melt and none of them kept the tips attached to the arrows. :sad:


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## Dacer (Jun 10, 2013)

never had any problems with anything coming out when using the Bohning Ferr-L-Tite Cool Flex Hot Melt. I've shot my share of bad shots into 2X4 outdoor target stand uprights, and into 1/2 plywood. Never lost a tip pulling them out. for my uses - the one stick i have will probably last a few years.


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## kenn1320 (Aug 28, 2004)

I use the heavy duty hot melt from the craft store. Its yellow, not white and I got a lifetime supply for like $5 or so. I lost 1 insert shooting into those multi layered mesh back stops(hate those). I like to be able to put a 250gr field point in a vice, heat it with my torch and remove inserts when I want. Cant do that with epoxy.


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## arrowyn (Jul 4, 2013)

I use Kimsha Quick-Stick Hot Melt. I forgot if its a the range or at the club, or here or another forums but I recall 7+ people recommending it, so I tried it out. It's big so I cut it in 4's ( with a hot knife  ), so its more like a stick. I've had my metal points strike the metal part of the bale, and remain on. I've shot in 95 degree weather and no points coming off. It's more expensive, but I've done 50 arrows (points and nock bushing inserts)and still have 4 sticks . . .

There is a difference between some craft glue . . . Some of the glue gun / craft glue hot sticks aren't as strong. My mom does some tailoring and has hot glue for rhinestones . . . that stuff I've lost heads in hard packed bales or in 90's temps . . . 

The only issue is it must be hot, and once off the flame, I use a hairdryer on full to keep the heat going where I have the spot where I push the points in.


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## caspian (Jan 13, 2009)

hdracer said:


> No more hot melt for me. I shoot a compound and have lost many tips shooting indoors and outdoors. Now I only use epoxy. I used a couple different types of hot melt and none of them kept the tips attached to the arrows. :sad:


I have never lost a point yet using decent quality hotmelt on shafts and points prepared using simple techniques, on any variety of point, insert and shaft.


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

I've lost points using the amber Bohning glue, it seems to be too rigid when cool. Also lost them using Black-max which works well in the beginning then hardens after 6 months or so.
Since then I've switched to simple glue sticks. I look for the most flexible ones. This is with both recurve and compound.

-Grant


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## baller (Oct 4, 2006)

I found good success with Hockey hot melt glue...used for gluing blades to shafts of composite hockey sticks....its a little higher temp glue but remains flexible at room temperature and is impact rated. Never lost a point and its super cheap and readily available wherever you can find hockey equipment.


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## kballer1 (Aug 31, 2010)

hdracer said:


> No more hot melt for me. I shoot a compound and have lost many tips shooting indoors and outdoors. Now I only use epoxy. I used a couple different types of hot melt and none of them kept the tips attached to the arrows. :sad:


I have shot a compound since 1970 & have used hot melt all that time & have not lost but a couple inserts in all that time. Might be the procured in the way you used the hot melt. Also I use a lot of NIBBs point & if used epoxy will ruin shaft trying to remove the point.


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## nick060200 (Jul 5, 2010)

i got the hot melt and like it a lot but the only thing that worries me is in below freezing temps,
as an experiment the excess that came off my arrows after gluing the inserts i took and put in the freezer and when i took it out i could "crack" the hot melt. should i be concerned in really cold temps? i hunted in neg temps this year.


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## nick060200 (Jul 5, 2010)

Bump


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## midwayarcherywi (Sep 24, 2006)

People generally don't shoot target arrows in sub 0 weather. Since you're talking about one shot at an animal, I don't think there should be any issues.


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## w8lon (Jun 2, 2012)

I do daily, t-shirt weather here when it hits 20. We have not had a 32 degree day since November, and very few double digit days that weren't sub zero. 

No problem losing points with ferrule tite or the blue carbon glue, just have to get it hot enough is all.


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## DK Lieu (Apr 6, 2011)

nick060200 said:


> i got the hot melt and like it a lot but the only thing that worries me is in below freezing temps,
> as an experiment the excess that came off my arrows after gluing the inserts i took and put in the freezer and when i took it out i could "crack" the hot melt. should i be concerned in really cold temps? i hunted in neg temps this year.


Most common hot-melt adhesives are either polyolefin or ethylene vinyl acetate. The "glass temperature" is temperature at which the material become brittle, and can break easily on impact. The glass temperature for most common hot melts is around -30 degF, but can be as high as 0 degF, depending on the formulation. Putting some of the material in the freezer to test if it gets brittle is a smart idea.

When I was in Korea, I noted that the students at KNSU used common hobby shop hot-melt to install stainless steel and tungsten points in their X-10's. Good enough for them, good enough for me. Just be careful to prep the parts properly and install them with the proper procedure. I've not lost a point in 10 years.


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## arrowspeak (Jan 23, 2011)

lksseven said:


> FYI, in my experience Hot Melt glue, in order to 'hold at full strength', likes higher heat than can normally be achieved with a cigarette lighter. I heat my points over a gas stove in the kitchen.


There are two types of hot melt glue used from a glue gun - low temperature and high temperature. The low temperature sticks take a little longer to solidify than high temp sticks, so one can evenly coat an insert, whereas if one uses the high temp stick, one has to act very quickly and carefully inserting the insert fully into the shaft before the glue solidifies.


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## arrowspeak (Jan 23, 2011)

DK Lieu said:


> Most common hot-melt adhesives are either polyolefin or ethylene vinyl acetate. The "glass temperature" is temperature at which the material become brittle, and can break easily on impact. The glass temperature for most common hot melts is around -30 degF, but can be as high as 0 degF, depending on the formulation. Putting some of the material in the freezer to test if it gets brittle is a smart idea.
> 
> When I was in Korea, I noted that the students at KNSU used common hobby shop hot-melt to install stainless steel and tungsten points in their X-10's. Good enough for them, good enough for me. Just be careful to prep the parts properly and install them with the proper procedure. I've not lost a point in 10 years.


Professor,

Are you speaking of low temp or high temp hot melt glue sticks?

Thanks!


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## DK Lieu (Apr 6, 2011)

arrowspeak said:


> Professor,
> 
> Are you speaking of low temp or high temp hot melt glue sticks?
> 
> Thanks!


A rather timely question. I use the standard hardware store variety glue stick, which is a translucent white color. The glue is neither marked as low temperature nor high temperature. I can get the glue to soften with a hair drier, which typically runs at around 160 degF. I apply the glue with a hardware store variety glue gun, which typically runs around 250 degF. Removal of the points can be done easily by dunking the tips of the arrows in a cup of near-boiling water. My procedure for installing points can be found in a document at the bottom of this page: http://archery.berkeley.edu/about/ 

That being said, I recently lost my first point in around 12 years. But the target mat was dense foam, caked in snow and ice, at a temperature of around 0 degF. Only one point, the rest seem to be fine, so it may just have been a sloppy installation on that arrow.


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## zal (May 1, 2007)

I've always used the softest, white glue. I don't think I've ever lost a point in all the years I've shot. Well maybe some have come loose when pulling from the wooden frames back in the day.

I was told to not heat it too much and use plenty of glue to prevent air pockets by the guy who was teaching me back in the day, I've done that ever since with pretty much perfect results. I use candle flame, but keep glue well out of the flame and heat the point only slightly, so that I can still keep hold of it with my fingers.


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## dkard (Sep 25, 2004)

I started using a coffee cup warmer to heat the points and inserts. They heat to about 140 F or so. Put the points and inserts on the warmer for about 10 minutes while you get arrows ready. I use a low temp hot glue gun to squeeze glue on the points like stated above. I have not tried heating the shafts but may try that next time I insert points. 

good luck with the regular low temp hot glue sticks from Walmart.

dave


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## schreib (Jul 16, 2011)

_Most common hot-melt adhesives are either polyolefin or ethylene vinyl acetate. The "glass temperature" is temperature at which the material become brittle, and can break easily on impact. The glass temperature for most common hot melts is around -30 degF, but can be as high as 0 degF, depending on the formulation. Putting some of the material in the freezer to test if it gets brittle is a smart idea.

When I was in Korea, I noted that the students at KNSU used common hobby shop hot-melt to install stainless steel and tungsten points in their X-10's. Good enough for them, good enough for me. Just be careful to prep the parts properly and install them with the proper procedure. I've not lost a point in 10 years.
Dennis K. Lieu
Professor of Mechanical Engineering
UC Berkeley_

Faculty Advisor, UC Berkeley Archery Club

Best response yet!
Also consider 3M Hot Melt Adhesives, 3764 or 3747. 
Here is where to buy them, or at least get free samples: 
https://www.gluegun.com/products/3m-3747-glue-sticks#reviews


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

Guys - 

Humm, old thread...

This just came up on the traditional forum.

Unless you're a shop mass producing finished arrows, just spend the extra money for the Easton (low temp) stick glue or similar made for arrows. 
The craft shore stuff is usually high temp and just too messy to use on arrows.

NOTE: Most instructions for hot glue and arrows are WRONG.
A lot tell you to heat the stick and apply it to the shank or insert.
By the time you assemble it, it has had enough time to cool and there's no bond.
Rather, heat the insert or shank and touch the glue stick to it, transferring the glue.
Rotate the insert or shank while inserting it into the shaft.

Viper1 out.


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## kenn1320 (Aug 28, 2004)

I give the insert enough heat to see it go from dull to shiny(very minimal). I then heat the glue and smear it on the insert. I put down the glue stick and grab the shaft and give the insert another hit of heat and twist the shaft as I apply it onto the insert(held by a field point in a vice). I then unscrew and screw in a larger point as a heat sink to remove heat from the insert. I use the glue sticks from the craft store.


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## Bender (Dec 6, 2006)

I have been concerned about hot melt only twice. Once, a different supplier stepped in and I lost a few points. And for a while an Archery specific low temp was made available by somebody. Knowing that in 3D an arrow may wind up stuck for a long time in a smoking hot target during high summer I never used that product. 

I'm currently using a high temp commercial grade and a propane torch to mount inserts. No problems for about the last 10 years.


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## teebat (Oct 28, 2013)

hwjchan said:


> There may be in the composition, but I've always glued my points in with the same craft glue that you use in an ordinary hot glue gun. I can't recall ever losing a point yet.


Same here but I get them from Lowes.


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## PregnantGuppy (Jan 15, 2011)

I'll back what DK Lieu was mentioning and say that the Koreans I know also all use what seems to be store-bought hot glue gun sticks. The glue seems to be pretty low temperature; they often remove points by just heating the arrows with the exhaust of the heating units, or by dunking them in some water from the kettles they use for tea and coffee.

And I'll add my own anecdotal evidence in that I used to use Easton hot melt exclusively, but one time in an emergency I just used the random craft hot melt sticks we had at home. They held well, so I kept using that glue afterwards, and I haven't lost a point in the years since.


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## S.B. (Sep 26, 2012)

I have been assembling arrows with dollar store buck-a-dozen glue sticks for decades, just like Rick recommends in his book, never lost a point. Finally I decided to get fancy and paid 5 bucks for bohning glue stick. What a mistake that was! On hot summer day points started to get loose and pulling a bit from shafts, but real surprise was when I opened my bow case with spare arrows that was sitting on the sun. All points were out almost all the way, like 2 inches, just air pressure inside heated shaft pushing them out. It was a challenge to clean inside shafts off that bohning stuff and get back to normal.
By the way the best instruction for arrow assembly is by Don Rabska in Easton arrow manual, but who needs manuals when there are forums?


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## caspian (Jan 13, 2009)

I presume you mean the blue stuff. don't use it, it's not good. stick with the Easton glue, it's relatively low melt, doesn't go crystalline hard, and is cheap enough that there's no point in trying to find something equivalent.


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## anmactire (Sep 4, 2012)

I have always found the Bohning blue stuff works a treat, but I am in a very mild climate with pretty small temperature deviation year round and a "hot day" is about 24celcius here. 
I have only had one issue with it ever and it was with a point with a short shank. Arrow struck the bale, point flew out and hit the wall a few feet behind it.


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## caspian (Jan 13, 2009)

it's 14 degrees science outside now here, but high 30s is normal during summer. the blue stuff is simply not adequate for the warm temperatures. that's not just personal opinion, it's the result of repeated observation until everyone involved got sick of losing points and threw the stuff in the bin.

just shooting an arrow into a layered stramit butt generates enough frictional heat to remelt the glue.


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## schreib (Jul 16, 2011)

caspian said:


> it's 14 degrees science outside now here, but high 30s is normal during summer. the blue stuff is simply not adequate for the warm temperatures. that's not just personal opinion, it's the result of repeated observation until everyone involved got sick of losing points and threw the stuff in the bin.
> 
> just shooting an arrow into a layered stramit butt generates enough frictional heat to remelt the glue.


OK. . . so in terms us non-metricized can understand; 57°F to about 100°F, by science you meant Celsius. dang phone conversion software!

Now, I just could NOT figure what "layered stramit butt" means! Ha! keeps us guessing!

But, got your point: Don't buy the blue goo.


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## Ryp (Mar 28, 2017)

Stramit

http://www.solaripedia.com/713/101/material.html

It sounds like he's essentially shooting into layers of natural particle board. Would hate it if my club used that as target backing. [emoji46]


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## schreib (Jul 16, 2011)

I just cannot imagine shooting into something like that-- purposely!


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## caspian (Jan 13, 2009)

it's compressed strawboard. used to be a very popular target butt material here, the biggest problem being it is highly abrasive on carbon shafts. layered carpet generates much the same issue in that the point becomes very hot during deceleration into the butt.


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## kurtlar vadisi (Sep 11, 2021)

dylpickleeeeeee said:


> Bu en saçma soru olabilir , ancak sıcak hava tabancası tabancaları var sopaları arasında herhangi bir fark mı?
> [/ALINTI]
> 
> Pek bir fark olduğunu söylemeye gerek yok.


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## schreib (Jul 16, 2011)

dylpickleeeeeee said:


> Okay ill get some of the bohning glue then. thanks for the advice


Before you jump on this you might want to read the reviews first. It appears there are a number of reviews against using these for carbon arrows-- and some . . . FOR?!








Bohning Ferr-L-Tite Hot Melt Glue Stick


• Original hot melt by bohning • Especially good for aluminum arrows and its components • Easily removed by reheating




www.lancasterarchery.com


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## schreib (Jul 16, 2011)

S.B. said:


> Don Rabska in Easton arrow manual


Not sure if this is the exact part you were referring to but it does point how important it is NOT to overheat the shaft. Possibly the reason some folks find this glue works and others do not:
_"After cutting your A/C* Shaft to length as described, follow the point installation procedure carefully to prevent overheating the point. Overheated points can destroy the shaft s epoxy bond between the carbon and the aluminum tube. Use only Easton hot-melt adhesive. 1. Clean approximately two inches inside the point end of the shaft using a cotton swab dipped in 91% alcohol. Repeat the process until a fresh cotton swab is free of cutting dust residue. Let the shaft dry thoroughly before bonding. 2. Carefully heat a stick of Easton s hot-melt adhesive over a small gas flame; then apply a ring of hot adhesive to the inside of the point end of the shaft. CAUTION: Do not apply heat directly to A/C shafts. Use Easton s hot-melt adhesive only. The melting point of Easton s hot-melt adhesive is low enough that the shaft will not be damaged during installation and high enough to keep the point securely bonded during the frictional heating caused when the arrow penetrates the target mat. Arrow points can come out in the target mat if lower melting temperature hot-melt adhesives are used. 3. Hold the end of the point with your fingers. (Do not hold with pliers because it is then possible to overheat the point.) Heat the exposed portion of the point or insert until you feel it getting warm. It should be just hot enough to melt the adhesive. CAUTION: Do not overheat points. If the point becomes too hot to hold in your fingers, it is too hot to put in the shaft. Set the point on a noncombustible surface until cool. 4. Heat the hot-melt adhesive and apply a generous layer of adhesive to the shank of the point or insert. * A/C Shaft refers to all models of aluminum/carbon shafts. Current models are X10, A/C/E, A/C/C, and HyperSpeed."_


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