# How High does your draw arm go up?



## projayjay (Jan 1, 2014)

My coach has told me for better form, I should raise my draw elbow higher, all the way up to the elevation of my ears. Now, looking at different World Archery Recurve videos, I don't see many pros rising their elbows that high. Some don't even raise it at all. I trust my coach completely, but how come a lot of the pros don't raise their draw elbows up as high? Do they not use the NTS? and is it good form for me to raise my draw elbow up higher?


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

ppj -

Still sounds like you don't trust your coach. 

Here's the thing: he can see you in real time and we can't. 
A drawing forearm in line with the arrow about all axises should be the most mechanically efficient... but we aren't all built the same. 
Some shooter's shoulder geometry may dictate a higher drawing elbow than others. 
Sometimes a good coach can see that and recommend a change in position and sometimes he needs you to experiment and evaluate the results.

The only time I would suggest you not trust your coach is he or she is the type to say "this is the way it's done - no exceptions".
That would get me nervous.

Viper1 out.


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## lksseven (Mar 21, 2010)

Viper1 said:


> ppj -
> 
> Still sounds like you don't trust your coach.
> 
> ...


Exactly! Experiment!


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## projayjay (Jan 1, 2014)

Alright, Thanks for the advice. Everyone is built differently.


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## MJAnderson68 (Nov 15, 2013)

It's hard to say one size fits all. After being told the same thing I was paying more attention to the good shooters in line and the guy next to me barely had his arm raised to his chin. When I asked the coach he had the guy come over and pointed out the kid has a neck like a giraffe. He had him raise his elbow to his ear and it was up at a 30 degree angle. Just make sure that your elbow being at your ear is right for you and not just a "rule of thumb".

http://www.kslinternationalarchery.com/Technique/KSLShotCycle/KSLShotCycle-USA.html


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## Georgemay (May 27, 2008)

If your forearm will be totaly relaxed, then it will align itself with line of force going from tip of the elbow to the pressure point on your grip. If you anchor under the chin, then in order to manipulate draw elbow, you will have to employ some muscles. Why would you want have them tense instead of relaxed?


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## Thin Man (Feb 18, 2012)

_"Mirror, mirror, on the wall ...
Just where does that elbow fall?"_

I was in front of a mirror only an hour ago studying an elbow component of my own. What it _felt _like I was doing turned out not to be what I saw myself doing ... but it took a peek in the mirror to analyze and correct this. 

When another set of watchful eyes is not available, the mirror allows you to study elements of your alignment and to receive immediate feedback as to both the feel and positioning of what you are studying. Then later you take that technical snapshot of yourself to the target bag and recreate it. 

Most any mirror will do as long as you can see what you need to see. Suit up in full archery armor, bow and arrow. You'll not want any life forms around when you do this. But you'll need to study yourself realistically in action, the only difference being letting down the arrow rather than shooting it.

Good luck.


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## chrstphr (Nov 23, 2005)

i would listen to your coach. 


and just about all of the asian recurve ladies have a high draw elbow. You can see it in the world cup videos on youtube.


Chris


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## gjlama94 (Oct 11, 2013)

Is there a reason you don't ask your coach these questions? They strike me as completely legitimate and the sort that he could easily field.


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## lksseven (Mar 21, 2010)

Experiment with different elbow positions and determine over time which works best for you. There's no "one" position that's "right" ...
Butch Johnson







Yun Oki Hee and Park Sung Hyun ...


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## anmactire (Sep 4, 2012)

My arm has transitioned over the years to almost flat in line with the arrow. I feel this is a consequence of my proportions as it is the most comfortable and repeatable position for me. I have a somewhat longer than average draw length for my height. I've also found it allows me to load up a bit more draw weight. Your body's shape and proportions will determine where is correct for you, there is no arbitrary correct position.


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## Drowsy (May 9, 2013)

I really do not mean to hijack this thread, but I'd like to ask a question regarding a few comments of "proportion" and "body size/geometry/neck length". 

In all of my form work with mirrors and videos, I've noticed that my bow shoulder is quite high. Based on the advice I'd gleaned from the forums, I thought the culprit was being overbowed with draw weight or mass weight of the bow. My friend (who is a Level 3, but not my coach) told me that it's because I'm a big guy (250lbs) with a medium sized neck. So my question is... 


Is the bow shoulder height similar to the drawing elbow height in the sense that everybody is built differently? Or is a low bow shoulder one of those non-negotiable things of archery form? 


For anybody who was wondering, I've tried to attain a low bow shoulder using a stretch band, and I still can't bring the shoulder down without putting a huge kink in my bow arm and short-drawing the bow.


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## chrstphr (Nov 23, 2005)

stand facing a mirror. look where your shoulders are at rest. 

Then bring your arms out stretched on your sides at shoulder height like you are forming a "T". 

look where your shoulders are. drop your draw arm. for Bow arm , this is wear shoulder SHOULD be. Now pick up bow and draw it and look in mirror, is shoulder in same place? 

If so then thats your shoulder. If not, then you are cinching your shoulder up when you draw. 

here is a video link to explain, go to the 4 minute mark and you will see






I shot for years with a high shoulder and thought it was my natural posture, but Vitorrio critiqued a few of my form videos and told me to get it down. I had to drop poundage a lot, but i was able to get the right posture. Then i rebuilt the poundage back. Took me a year and a half. Now my shoulder is the same at rest or under bow load. 

Chris


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## projayjay (Jan 1, 2014)

chrstphr said:


> stand facing a mirror. look where your shoulders are at rest.
> 
> Then bring your arms out stretched on your sides at shoulder height like you are forming a "T".
> 
> ...


Does it matter (laterally) where my bow arm is? My shoulder doesn't pop up but is there a certain position your bow arm should always be? like not 180 but like 150?


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## Joe T (Apr 5, 2003)

Georgemay said:


> If your forearm will be totaly relaxed, then it will align itself with line of force going from tip of the elbow to the pressure point on your grip. If you anchor under the chin, then in order to manipulate draw elbow, you will have to employ some muscles. Why would you want have them tense instead of relaxed?


Sometimes the consequent symptoms replace the underlying reasons.

As above the forearm should lie along the draw force line (elbow to bow hand pressure point). As the pressure point is below the arrow rest then you can get the visually impression that the elbow is "raised" (without saying raised with respect to what). The forearm slopes up with respect to the line of the arrow. The forearm slope with respect to the ground depends on the height of the bow hand pressure point. If you draw with an elastic band then if you move the bow hand up and down then the elbow goes up and down (you are just vertically rotating the draw force line).

Same applies to the low bow shoulder. What you actually want is the draw force line to be above the shoulder joint so under load the bow shoulder is being pushed down ( a stable configuration). The bow shoulder being above the draw force line (bow shoulder being pushed up) is unstable. You can put the bow shoulder below the draw force line by using a low bow shoulder or (in theory) by using a high draw force line. An efficient draw (bone on bone loading through the shoulders) swings the pendulum towards the lowered bow shoulder.


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## chrstphr (Nov 23, 2005)

projayjay said:


> Does it matter (laterally) where my bow arm is? My shoulder doesn't pop up but is there a certain position your bow arm should always be? like not 180 but like 150?


It should be where your shoulder naturally is when you have your arms outstretched at shoulder height forming a T as shown in the video. Not rotated forward laterally or rotated back laterally. 


Chris


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## b0w_bender (Apr 30, 2006)

chrstphr said:


> i would listen to your coach.
> and just about all of the asian recurve ladies have a high draw elbow. You can see it in the world cup videos on youtube.
> Chris


Yup, he may also notice that as you settle in you are starting to sag a bit on the draw arm and he is trying to get you to concentrate on keeping that draw elbow up. It is very difficult to pull up on the string even if your elbow is too high but once that elbow starts to sag it invariably leads to a downward yank on the string and significant accuracy problems. Listen to your coach like others have mentioned above he is seeing something that you are doing and is trying to correct it. You on the other hand sound like you are trying to do a bit of self coaching and questioning. It's OK to question your coach but do it by asking him\her if you don't like that interaction or the answer then get a different coach that you are comfortable with.


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