# Nationals going to a 3-day event?



## CarlV (Mar 12, 2008)

I'm hoping that some of the Pro's that attended the Proffessional Shooter's meeting in Mechanicsburg will chime in here with accurate info. You know how scuttlebut can be.

I heard from another shooter (in a rest area on the PA turnpike, no less) that the Pro's voted to change the National's venue to a 3-day shoot because some of them didn't like the fact that you could take your best of the two Hunter and Field shoots you shot. They were calling it mulligans?

This non-pro shooter, and just an average guy of modest means probably isn't going to commit over $1000 to travel, motel, eat, etc at an abbreviated event like that.

WTH were they thinking? If this is true, does anyone wonder why we are having membership issues with an attitude like this?

Just my opinion folks.

I'd like to hear what really happened.


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## wolf44 (Mar 31, 2009)

I think it all really came to a head when cousins walked off after he missed on saturday...he needed a 560 and there was no point in shooting after he missed a shot.
if they went to a mandatory 5 day event I couldn't do that, too much time off of work. I'd be really happy with a 3 day event


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## r49740 (Dec 7, 2006)

I really like it the way that it is, especially being an outdoor event where weather could be an issue. For example, Thursday was extremely hot. There are those that can't be in that kind of heat because of health issues. So for them to have the ability to shoot on Sunday for a score, where the temperature was much more moderate, I think that is great. The weather could have been the other way around, or the storms could have shown up earlier a few of the days. So let's say for this that the weather hits and can't shoot that day. So then what will they do? How many shooters can change their vacation schedule(even if it just for the Friday round) to get a different day off work at the last minute like that? I know of one person that couldn't shoot the weekend, but shot the first 3 days, and one who could only shoot the last 3 days. To me, makes the most sense, and fun, to leave it. 

And with Dave walking off, that was up to him. He couldn't clean the round after dropping the point, so why not conserve energy to try to get done what he needed the next day? Why is that worse than someone not shooting a day at all when you have the choice?


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## TNMAN (Oct 6, 2009)

Pro Div can't change anything on it's own. Personally, I never liked the idea of mulligans either. Not for golf, and certainly not for field archery.


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## Mike2787 (Jul 16, 2002)

As a pro who attended the meeting, I can attest that the only thing the pros voted on was that we would like to count every arrow shot whether it was a 3 day or a 5 day event. Only the NFAA Board of Directors can change the length of the tournament. A show of hands at the meeting was much in favor of the 5 day tournament.


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## montigre (Oct 13, 2008)

Mike2787 said:


> As a pro who attended the meeting, I can attest that the only thing the pros voted on was that we would like to count every arrow shot whether it was a 3 day or a 5 day event. Only the NFAA Board of Directors can change the length of the tournament. A show of hands at the meeting was much in favor of the 5 day tournament.


So Mike,
Am I reading this wrong, so there is some consideration being made for making the shoot a mandatory 5 day shoot for the Pros and retaining the 3/5 day format for amateurs? Just curious...


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## CarlV (Mar 12, 2008)

Mike2787 said:


> As a pro who attended the meeting, I can attest that the only thing the pros voted on was that we would like to count every arrow shot whether it was a 3 day or a 5 day event. Only the NFAA Board of Directors can change the length of the tournament. A show of hands at the meeting was much in favor of the 5 day tournament.


Thank you, Mike.


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## Mike2787 (Jul 16, 2002)

Gail..
First...I'm not a spokesperson for the pro division so anything I write is my recollection or opinion only. Second...The pros will abide by whatever the Board of Directors tell us to shoot. 

It is the opinion of most pros and my opinion as well that a NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP should not have any give away days. Every arrow fired should be an arrow that counts on the score card. I'd like to know of another sport's national championship that allows its competitors to compete for an entire day and then disregard that days efforts. 

If the non-professional divisions prefer the 3/5 day format, then I see no conflict with allowing the pros to count all 5 days while the non-professionals continue in the current format.


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

Mike2787 said:


> Gail..
> First...I'm not a spokesperson for the pro division so anything I write is my recollection or opinion only. Second...The pros will abide by whatever the Board of Directors tell us to shoot.
> 
> It is the opinion of most pros and my opinion as well that a NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP should not have any give away days. Every arrow fired should be an arrow that counts on the score card. I'd like to know of another sport's national championship that allows its competitors to compete for an entire day and then disregard that days efforts.
> ...


Mike I'm no pro but I for one don't want a Mulligan in archery. JMO I need several the way I shoot though. 
DB


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## montigre (Oct 13, 2008)

Thanks, Mike. Just trying to get a better understanding of what's possibly being considered for future events since this was only my 2nd Nats. I appreciate your response.


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## nock tune (Jul 5, 2009)

I'm not a Pro, but like the 5 day mon-fri all scores count Nats. Again the board thinks they will get more shooters with the 3-5 shot over the weekend. They see how the 3-d shoots get big turnouts and think it will work in the NFAA. 
But they fail to understand theres no clubs big enought to hold them. 560 shooters is a full 5 course range like in Mechanicsberg. Or they want to cut down the round to 14 target an shoot 2 times a day if they get bigger turnouts. 
I like it the way it used to before the started messing with it


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## x-hunta (Mar 10, 2010)

nock tune said:


> I'm not a Pro, but like the 5 day mon-fri all scores count Nats. Again the board thinks they will get more shooters with the 3-5 shot over the weekend. They see how the 3-d shoots get big turnouts and think it will work in the NFAA.
> But they fail to understand theres no clubs big enought to hold them. 560 shooters is a full 5 course range like in Mechanicsberg. Or they want to cut down the round to 14 target an shoot 2 times a day if they get bigger turnouts.
> I like it the way it used to before the started messing with it


A mon-fri Nationals will cut turnout MASSIVELY. Alot people just simply can't or don't want to miss an entire week of work.


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## Moparmatty (Jun 23, 2003)

Make it a 5 day every arrow counts for both Pros and the non-Pros.


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## brtesite (May 24, 2002)

I have a hunch that you just might see 5 days for the pros


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## heaterht240 (Sep 16, 2006)

I think the real question is whether a full five days is doable for average joes that work. Not saying the pros don't have real jobs too but most top pros are in archery related fields nowadays. The 3/5 format is good for ppl who can't make it for all 5 days. Let the pros do whatever as long as they agree. My 2 cents!


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## fmoss3 (Apr 20, 2003)

next year WILL be the same format in Darrington......the next year in Yankin WILL be a monday thru friday with animals on wednesday.


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## brian86 (Mar 28, 2010)

Why channge it? 500 shooters, IT'S NOT BROKE DON'T FIX IT!

Sent from my Desire HD using Xparent Green Tapatalk 2


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## fibonacci4u (Jun 11, 2002)

How about the 3/5 day option for the Joes and a mandatory, set schedule for the Pros (number of days TBD). This is how the IBO accommodates those people that like the flexible schedule (EX: shooting all 40 targets in one day) while still maintaining professional credibility, for the pros must shoot on the days the IBO designates. I do think that not including the weekend is a mistake if numbers is a concern. I have been wrong before, though.


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## caribouhunter30 (Jun 28, 2006)

I for one don't want to see a Monday thrum Friday shoot having to shoot all five days. I think it will cut down on attendance and eliminate the average working stiff who loves the sport. I do like the current 3/5 format for scoring, if you have a bad day it gives you a chance to better yourself. JMHO


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## xring1 (May 28, 2008)

I think its ok, the only thing I would change is if you do go out to shoot a second round you should have to take it no matter how good or bad it is !!!


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## rsw (May 22, 2002)

For what it is worth, I listened in to the pro discussion (I just resigned my pro card this year, but was still interested in what they were thinking about). The pros have no say in what the rest of the NFAA will be doing - the discussion was simply what the pros would prefer to do. They can't make any decision for the open shooters, but as a group they can make recommendations to the NFAA with regard to what they would like to see for the pros. The reason I bring this up is simply that I heard more than a couple of archers listening in and disgustedly discussing why the pros are deciding what everyone should have to do. 

Personally, I think the 3/5 day adventure has merit, but also serious drawbacks. Many love the 5 day shoot, but others dislike it for equally valid reasons. Wthtout doubt, some shooters who can toss out lower scores have a very significant advantage over one who can only submit 3 scores for consideration and there is no sound way to make equity out of this (anyone interested in coming for three days and shooting two field rounds on one day and two hunter rounds on the next day?) 

At any rate, the pros have it right in my opinion. Any arrow shot should count in the final score. Perhaps we should go back to the old schedule - travel on the weekends and shoot Mon-Fri???


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## r49740 (Dec 7, 2006)

I like the format the way it is personally. Although, the idea above sounds good too where if you shoot a second score, then that one should count no matter what. So if you pick up your scorecard in the morning, that days score is what will be counted. But I don't see how doing the current 3/5 day format gives anyone an advantage. Everyone has the same decision to make as to whether they will shoot 3 or 5 days. Making a different decision doesn't give anyone an advantage over the next guy. I understand some people can't or won't take off work the first couple days, but I also talked to some people that only came because they could shoot Wed-Fri, but had to work on the weekend. So each made their choice, and that to me seems even. Just my opinion though. I always find it more humorous though when there is this much flexibility as to when you can shoot, but yet, its seems like so many people have ideas on how to make it better, but they didn't even go anyways. There was a person from our state shocked that there weren't more people from our state that attended.. .but yet stayed home themself. Just my opinion, but this was the first time I have went to any kind of tournament that I didnt hear complaints, or personally feel that there were any... So why change it?


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

This is a no win situation, and can be debated from both sides of the issue and has been for many years already. No matter what the NFAA does, it is wrong! Go mandatory 5-days and "people won't give up the vacation time", go 3-days...and people won't bother cuz it isn't long enough. Go 3/5 day option...and people cry about "mulligans"...Many of the same people crying about mulligans, however don't seem to realize that the pressure is on big time for those people that are trying to better their first score...They don't and they STILL LOSE..so what's the big hang up?

I think the Wed-Sunday format is a great option! I also think the animal round on the third day is the way to fly! This really doesn't make "everything" hinge on the animal round, since shooters still have two more days of shooting afterwards to try to "make amends".

I like the strategy involved in this, too. Can I do this? Knowing when/how to hold 'em or how/when to fold 'em, so to speak.

I grew up in this sport when the 5-day format was the way it was...you shot all 5 days..but the animal was always on the LAST DAY, putting pretty much everything (if scores were close) on the animal round to decide a national championship? Not many like that...other than those that made the "come from behind" move to win, that is.

When it comes to the Pro Division, however, I'm pretty much thinking that first, they WILL follow whatever rules are in place and that format. That being said, however, I definitely think that the PROS should be shooting all 5 scores, and every arrow shot counts for the title/money. I do NOT think that it makes any such favoritism to the PROS, but rather helps the Division distinguish itself by having a more representative contest for "all the marbles".
I can see both sides of the coin, however in that many "amateurs" will see it as favoritism and the pros getting their own way. It is a no win situation....give "mulligans" and people will cry and moan; go to 5-days of shooting...MORE will cry and moan.

Personally, if I return to the Nationals, I'd go for the 5-days, cuz I won't spend that kinda money and preparation time for only 3-days of shooting. That being said, however...ALL, and I do mean ALL of the "successful" outdoor events Nation-wide...are THREE DAY EVENTS!

ASA and IBO have been kicking butt on attendance for their premier events for years! However, in their event...ALL the scoring arrows count; no such thing as a mulligan (well, I remember something about 'buying a mulligan' ARROW, but don't know if that is still possible or not). THREE days has been their saving grace and it WORKS...Friday-Sunday format...pros, amateurs, etc.

Field archers are just a bit different, however....we seem to want to shoot MORE arrows, and many won't attend a Nationals for "only" three days of shooting; mostly the older set.
Now...look at the different shooting classes and pay attention to the SENIORS and MASTER SENIORS...those divisions are GROWING in numbers of participants!!! This is NOT a good sign for field archery as we know it. It tells me that the sport is going to become top heavy with OLDER shooters, while we see fewer and fewer CUBS, YOUTH, and YOUNG ADULTS. Sure the Men's and Women's Freestyle are still the largest division...but they are aging too. That is the other dilemma.
MORE Seniors and Master Seniors likely means that the endurance for 5-days of competition is not going to continue to work. Give them the option of strategy and sitting on a score or the option of trying to better it...and some will take it, and many won't.

I don't know the answers. I have an inkling however, that the Pros will likely be shooting all 5 scores, and in my opinion it is justifiable and proper. 

field14 (Tom D.)


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## deadlyjest (Mar 30, 2009)

Maybe a better solution is to allow the 3/5 day format with the weekends included, But only allow 3 rounds shot!! No mulligans that way. All people will have to shoot friday animal round. 
The pro's could shoot Wednesday ,Friday and Sunday if thats the days they Choose.
This might keep attendance up and allow for every arrow counted.

By the way, congrats to all this years champions !!!!!


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## Brad Rega (Oct 31, 2002)

Changing it to only a 3 day event is ridiculous if the reason is to increase attendance. Look at the results and you can see that not very many people chose the 3 day option. And im willing to bet that many of those 3 day shooters did so because they just didnt feel like shooting 5 days, not because they couldnt. Shooter attendance has also not changed very much since the change to only accepting the high field and high hunter. This shoot has been about endurance and consistency and from what I see taking out the lowest scores has not made much of a difference in determining the winners as those guys who are at the top are usually the best of the best anyway. Wiping out lowest scores does help people like me who don't have the opportunity to ever practice and just show up to have fun and use the first two days to warm up. It's also good for us dummies who accidentally shoot the wrong target on a fan, forget to walk up, or forget to set sights. On the first day 3/4 of us screwed up and the 4th person didn't cause he was lucky enough to have another shooter stop him before he did. 

Also 5 ranges are almost needed to fit everyone comfortably and avoid major backups. The AMFS division alone almost filled an entire range. 5 ranges, 5 days, shoot 1 range each day, it just works out well.

What someone should do is look at the scores of people who place in each division and give them a 5 day score and a 3 day score and see how that changes thier place if at all. I'm willing to bet it doesn't make much of a difference. If scores are too close, score the x as a bonus point.


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## archerytech78 (Dec 28, 2006)

I have never been. I havent even shot a field round but i will soon. Field archery is not big where I live 3D is pretty huge.my 7 year old son and i will be shooting at the state level, at least next year. So let me get this right. You get 5 days to put up a field, hunter, and animal score? And then you can reshoot any of those scores the last 2 days? But st the end of it all you get the best 3 scores. The highest from field, hunter, and animal.


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## heaterht240 (Sep 16, 2006)

Not exactly, 2 field round, 2 hunter, only. 1 animal. Keep the high score of the field and hunter rounds.


archerytech78 said:


> I have never been. I havent even shot a field round but i will soon. Field archery is not big where I live 3D is pretty huge.my 7 year old son and i will be shooting at the state level, at least next year. So let me get this right. You get 5 days to put up a field, hunter, and animal score? And then you can reshoot any of those scores the last 2 days? But st the end of it all you get the best 3 scores. The highest from field, hunter, and animal.


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## archerytech78 (Dec 28, 2006)

Oh ok, I got it now. Thanks heat.


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## nock tune (Jul 5, 2009)

OK, my reason for a 5 day mon-fri, field, hunter, field, hunter, animal round last, is that so much rides on the animal round now that they have the spot for extra points, you'll not know the winner till the end of the round. And the animal round goes faster getting finished earlier on the last day. Plus your shooting against your closest competition which makes for a challange of skill and nerves on the final day. They finally made the animals worth shooting an took away the challange by shooting them in the middle of the rounds so that they can have the 3-5 format, for which they get no more shooter then they had for the full 5 day. Also you have the weekends to travel and not carry over into the next week when ending the shoot on a Sunday.


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## Tom1953 (Jan 22, 2009)

My two cents worth, I've suggested before the NFAA should use the outdoor 300 round. Everyone shoots 60 arrows 10-65 yds. It really is the perfect round, same number of shots as the Indoor round, People could choose morning or afternoon for target assignments. I think folks forget the original 28 target rounds in the 50's and 60's were shot with barebow and freestyle limited with recurve bows and folks were done shooting in 
2 hours. It takes longer now to shoot good scores, that's why we need a shorter round. It seems to me, when I attended the '75 Jay Peak, '76
Aurora, '77 Clemson Nationals we had over a 1200 shooters. I believe the Mid-Atlantic sectional used to have about 800.

Those people with kids and wives who don't shoot then have time to explore the local area's history, parks, whatever. 
If people want to shoot more in the afternoon have a Pro/Am event. Just pull names out of two hats and pair up a pro with an amateur/open shooter. 

Personally I'd prefer a 5 day National. But I don't want to shoot all day, I'd like to visit afterwards with all my old friends.


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## mag41vance (Mar 13, 2008)

I like the Idea of 2 scores each for the Field & Hunter . I wouldn't call it a mulligan, I'd call it shooting 4 rounds. :becky: We all know that one good or bad round should not be how our Archery status should be determined. Heck throw out the low and high scores of the 4 rounds shot, and keep the 2 middle scores, and the animal round score stays what it is


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## mag41vance (Mar 13, 2008)

mag41vance said:


> I like the Idea of 2 scores each for the Field & Hunter . I wouldn't call it a mulligan, I'd call it shooting 4 rounds. :becky: We all know that one good or bad round should not be how our Archery status should be determined. Heck throw out the low and high scores of the 4 rounds shot, and keep the 2 middle scores, and the animal round score stays what it is


HOWEVER: If a record score is achieved; let the record-books record it, even though it wouldn't count in the determining final scores unless that record score was shot twice. (Thinking Caps please)


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## frank_jones (Mar 2, 2006)

xring1 said:


> I think its ok, the only thing I would change is if you do go out to shoot a second round you should have to take it no matter how good or bad it is !!!


exactly! i have always felt this way for the three day format. gamble and take a chance if you think you can do better.


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## wolfman_73 (Mar 7, 2005)

Hoping to go next year when it's in darrington since it'll be relatively close. And I would much rather shoot 5 days. If I have to count every arrow I'm ok with that. If I can drop 2 lower scores I'm ok with that too. 

All I know is I'm lookin very forward to my first field nats


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## nock tune (Jul 5, 2009)

500+ shooters, 5 ranges, 5 days, thats about all your going to get, so make it the best for those that show, and maybe in time more will come!!!!!


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## Uzurmnd247 (Jun 1, 2009)

I've never shot this type of archery. So, Ive been trying to understand what I'm reading here. In my understanding, only 3 rounds count for score. 1 Field, 1 Hunter and 1 Animal. Then why don't they give you the option to shoot the second round of field or hunter, but if you do, they automatically drop your first score, and your second score counts even if you shoot worse. If your strength is in the field round you might be tempted to shoot the second round. If your strength is in the Hunter round you might be tempted to shoot that round to better your score. In that way each individual will have a chance to play to their strength's. Just my opinion. I would love to have time to shoot a 5 day shoot.


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

Everyone knows the rules and format BEFORE they get there....so nobody is prevented from doing all 5 days or only shooting 3. What everyone IS required to do is to shoot ONE animal round and all of them are doing that on the SAME DAY.

Now...that being said...if people want "separation"...simple...the target is there for it...use the EXPERT ROUND scoring for the field rounds, AND put those "invisible lines" onto the HUNTER targets so that the HUNTER targets can also be scored....5-4-3-2-1. Heck you could even have the PROS shooting with EXPERT scoring on the field rounds and normal scoring on the hunters...and of course shooting the animal round...every arrow counts...but if you miss big...you LOSE BIG....

I've never understood WHY the field round hasn't been scored 5-4-3-2-1 since the rings are already on the target faces anyways??? NO NEED to change anything with regard to target sizing or any such drastic measures...use the face AS IS...and simply score "expert scoring."

field14 (Tom D.)


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## TNMAN (Oct 6, 2009)

field14 said:


> ---Now...that being said...if people want "separation"...simple...the target is there for it...use the EXPERT ROUND scoring for the field rounds.----


Tom, respectfully disagree. Expert scoring won't make much difference (more likely none) to todays top freestyle pro's, but would make the average field archer and lower scoring equipment styles look suckingly worse, and drive away shooters in droves. 

Didn't know "suckingly" was an adverb, did you? ukey:


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

TNMAN said:


> Tom, respectfully disagree. Expert scoring won't make much difference (more likely none) to todays top freestyle pro's, but would make the average field archer and lower scoring equipment styles look suckingly worse, and drive away shooters in droves.
> 
> Didn't know "suckingly" was an adverb, did you? ukey:


You are probably right...excepting the driving them away in droves part. I think there was a discussion somewheres about, for the pros, counting the X as "6" points. The problem with that is then the separation, while evident, might drive some of the PROS out of their own division, since the cream will still rise to the top, and it likely wouldn't make much of a difference there either.

Changing the size of the bullseye for ONLY the PROS is akin to what "they" did in 1976...making the round harder for everyone in order to "stop" or "prevent" so many perfect scores. If you take ALL of the rounds shot, even by the PROS alone, and divide the number of 560s and then 559's by that number....the percent of perfects is still extremely low...as is even the number of 559's...can't take it out on EVERYONE for the achievements of only a small percentage of the overall numbers of rounds shot, if you know what I mean?

Counting ALL arrows shot is likely the best case scenario.
The idea of expert scoring is an old one, and the round is a bit tougher because those that keep 'em "closer" are rewarded, while those that tend to be "sloppy" pay the price. A miss by an inch should be less of a penalty than a miss by 5" or more, know what I mean?

There isn't any solid answer to this...but apparently the "mulligan" system (or so it is perceived) isn't very popular with some of the Pros and some of the amateurs either...Danged if you do, danged if you don't...so here we are...getting nowhere.
If they went 3 days and just the field round was scored EXPERT scoring...that could make it interesting indeed in ALL divisions (and you are right...the cream of the crop pros likely don't shoot ANY shots outside the identity line in the "4" ring...but....


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## Blinddog (Aug 10, 2005)

I think the bigger concern for field archery is participation in general. Field14 had it right with the missing generations we are starting to see in field archery.If we don't start getting local and state participation a 3/5 day format will not matter if you don't have any shooters. In Missouri this year we had 35 at our state shoot and that has been the average the last couple of years. The Show Me State games 2 weeks later shot an American round and had 100 shooters. I don't know what the answer is to get shooters out for field but I feel it is a dying part of the sport in my state.


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## 2little2late (Dec 25, 2006)

Blinddog said:


> I think the bigger concern for field archery is participation in general. Field14 had it right with the missing generations we are starting to see in field archery.If we don't start getting local and state participation a 3/5 day format will not matter if you don't have any shooters. In Missouri this year we had 35 at our state shoot and that has been the average the last couple of years. The Show Me State games 2 weeks later shot an American round and had 100 shooters. I don't know what the answer is to get shooters out for field but I feel it is a dying part of the sport in my state.


We have the winning answer right here. 
CMFS had three - count 'em - competitors at the NATIONAL shoot. Where is the future in that? 
I just wish that there where enough shooters interested that you would have to hold the tournament for two weeks to accommodate the numbers signing up.


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

2little2late said:


> We have the winning answer right here.
> CMFS had three - count 'em - competitors at the NATIONAL shoot. Where is the future in that?
> I just wish that there where enough shooters interested that you would have to hold the tournament for two weeks to accommodate the numbers signing up.


It comes right down to one word: PROMOTION!

Go into just about any archery shop, or even big stores like Cabela's or Bass Pro...and all you hear about is 3-D. Nearly all of the flyers posted in PLAIN VIEW...???? 3-D flyers. The shop people push.....3-D and/or bowhunting. PROMOTION of 3-D and bowhunting is rampant and is pushed over and over and over again.

Some other items overlooked...
--which is EASIER to 'get good at' without so much work? It isn't field or spot shooting.
--Which is promoted as MORE FUN? It isn't field or spot shooting?
--Which is promoted as taking less time to practice and less time to shoot if you go to a tournament? It isn't field or spot shooting...in fact it is just the opposite...field and spot shooting is billed as "Taking all day long and you got to shoot sooooo many arrows."
--Which is promoted as the shots not being all that far away, even if they are unmarked distances?
--Which is given the bad rap about..."You have to shoot so far and it is such a long round...4 arrows per target, and it takes ALL DAY (yeah, I know, I repeat)....That be field shooting or target shooting. On the other side of the coin, 3-D is PUSHED HARD as, it is only 40 shots and you are outta there...what they don't tell you is that at the big shoots, those 40 shots are going to take the better part of an entire day...or, you'll spend TWO DAYS to shoot 40 shots! 
--Which is given more "attention" and "glory" if anyone does well, especially a youngster?
--Which is the FIRST thing they see when they buy a new bow and the first place they are told to go to shoot? It isn't to a field or spot range....

Who is to blame for the LACK of "PROMOTION" of field archery and spot shooting....It is the MEMBERSHIP...NOT the Association....the MEMBERS are failing to promote their own sport...When compared to 3-D, field shooters/spot shooters are nowhere near as vocal about promoting their ranges and tournaments as 3-D people are.
ADVERTISING for IBO and ASA far exceeds what is done by the "spot organizations". Word of mouth, publications, you name it...it is 3-D this and 3-D that...and it is as if the field shooters are trying to keep it a secret or something....

Again...it is the MEMBERSHIP'S fault and not the organization's fault concerning the promotion of the sports of field archery and spot shooting...

There are countless people PROMOTING 3-D that don't even belong to any organizations...and they promote it big time. Don't see that with field or spot, or target shooters. It is more like, "join our organization FIRST and when we have your money, we'll then tell you what it is all about."

Sorry to be so blunt...but it lies in PROMOTION!

field14 (Tom D.)


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## r49740 (Dec 7, 2006)

field14 said:


> It comes right down to one word: PROMOTION!
> 
> Go into just about any archery shop, or even big stores like Cabela's or Bass Pro...and all you hear about is 3-D. Nearly all of the flyers posted in PLAIN VIEW...???? 3-D flyers. The shop people push.....3-D and/or bowhunting. PROMOTION of 3-D and bowhunting is rampant and is pushed over and over and over again.
> 
> ...




Just out of curiosity, and not looking to argue, but would a flyer at Bass Pro really increase participation? Just as an example, lets say I walk around handing out fliers to people about Nationals next year, or lets even say earlier this year for Mechanicsburg since it is close to home for me. So I walk around, I hand out fliers and explain the game to them. Tell them how fun it is, how it's nice to shoot more than 30 or 40 arrows, that you can shoot groups at long distances, but don't have to judge yardage, etc etc. And lets say they say, wow... that sounds like fun. And then they say, "Hey, I've never shot this before. Can I go with you to the next one and shoot in your group? Or can I ride with you to these Nationals?". Would the attendence go up after the response given to these people was... well I am not going. It's a great time, perfect course, tons of fun, etc etc.. but I am just not going myself. How would that work out in raising attendence? To me the only way to get it to grow is to go yourself(and by yourself I mean all of ourselves). We have had a few in our state question and wonder why attendence is so low at our state tournament, or why there were more from our state that went to Nationals since it was close to home... but these very people that wonder that didn't even go themselves to either tournament. To me, thats like complaining about our elected officials, but yet not casting one's own vote. 

I just don't think that there can be any more flexibility possibly given than what the NFAA already allows for this tournament. So if the host club can accommodate 5 days, then why change it? Noone has to shoot 5, or even 3 consecutive days, just 3 days total. Can't be made any easier in my opinion. If they want to change the scoring rules with dropping a couple scores or counting the 2nd score shot regardless, than thats fine. I just don't think eliminating flexibility in schedule will fix it. The only fix is those that are on AT or their emails or phones wondering why there aren't more people showing up... should show up themselves and the rest will take care of itself.


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

r49740 said:


> Just out of curiosity, and not looking to argue, but would a flyer at Bass Pro really increase participation? Just as an example, lets say I walk around handing out fliers to people about Nationals next year, or lets even say earlier this year for Mechanicsburg since it is close to home for me. So I walk around, I hand out fliers and explain the game to them. Tell them how fun it is, how it's nice to shoot more than 30 or 40 arrows, that you can shoot groups at long distances, but don't have to judge yardage, etc etc. And lets say they say, wow... that sounds like fun. And then they say, "Hey, I've never shot this before. Can I go with you to the next one and shoot in your group? Or can I ride with you to these Nationals?". Would the attendence go up after the response given to these people was... well I am not going. It's a great time, perfect course, tons of fun, etc etc.. but I am just not going myself. How would that work out in raising attendence? To me the only way to get it to grow is to go yourself(and by yourself I mean all of ourselves). We have had a few in our state question and wonder why attendence is so low at our state tournament, or why there were more from our state that went to Nationals since it was close to home... but these very people that wonder that didn't even go themselves to either tournament. To me, thats like complaining about our elected officials, but yet not casting one's own vote.
> 
> I just don't think that there can be any more flexibility possibly given than what the NFAA already allows for this tournament. So if the host club can accommodate 5 days, then why change it? Noone has to shoot 5, or even 3 consecutive days, just 3 days total. Can't be made any easier in my opinion. If they want to change the scoring rules with dropping a couple scores or counting the 2nd score shot regardless, than thats fine. I just don't think eliminating flexibility in schedule will fix it. The only fix is those that are on AT or their emails or phones wondering why there aren't more people showing up... should show up themselves and the rest will take care of itself.


The thing is, if you don't have 'them' on the CLUB level, you won't ever get them on the State level or Sectional Level or National level...it is indeed up to each of us as members to PROMOTE our game...and if we would follow the example of the 3-D craze instead of being secretive about things....
In many areas, clubs have really NOT promoted their own existence, for whatever reason. I've been in areas where field ranges have been in existence for years, and some of the local shops people don't even know about the existence of the range. Put up a 3-D range, and EVERYBODY knows about it quickly!

WE don't promote our own game and expect it to grow? Like was stated earlier...it really isn't about 3 or 5 day formats for a NATIONAL event...it is more about PROMOTION at the local level to get NEWCOMERS and especially the kids into the game. THREE cubs at a National tournament....and how many Master Seniors and Seniors? Nothing new coming in, and the average age of those attending getting OLDER...that pretty much spells it out clearly of the direction our beloved field archery is taking...and it isn't PROGRESSIVE either!

field14 (Tom D.)


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## DFA (Dec 30, 2002)

Look at the attendance for Yankton comparedto Mechanicsburg or Watkins Glen yet we keep going back to places like Yankton. I believe that if the Nationals were held in Mechanicsburg for 5 years in a row the attendance would grow. It is just plain a better location with much better ranges. After all most field shooters come from the east coast anyway. They obviously like the location when over 500show up to shoot compared to 300 in Yankton.
Just my .02...........
DFA


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## nock tune (Jul 5, 2009)

DFA said:


> Look at the attendance for Yankton comparedto Mechanicsburg or Watkins Glen yet we keep going back to places like Yankton. I believe that if the Nationals were held in Mechanicsburg for 5 years in a row the attendance would grow. It is just plain a better location with much better ranges. After all most field shooters come from the east coast anyway. They obviously like the location when over 500show up to shoot compared to 300 in Yankton.
> Just my .02...........
> DFA


I agree, But the guy that has control of the NFAA lives there!!!!


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## DFA (Dec 30, 2002)

Exactly.........................
DFA


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## wa-prez (Sep 9, 2006)

DFA said:


> I believe that if the Nationals were held in Mechanicsburg for 5 years in a row the attendance would grow.


I think rotating the Nationals across the country (East, Central, West) is important for two main reasons ...

A lot of people won't ever try it or won't be able to afford it, unless it is held practically in their back yard - in one-day's drive

There are downside to going ANY place multiple years in a row. Even though Darrington is just 200 miles from me, I probably wouldn't attend in consecutive years. It is nice to see different places each time and rotate.


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## Brad Rega (Oct 31, 2002)

For the local and state level participation is a problem. Over 500 at nationals, not a problem. 5 ranges, 5 days, 500 shooters, any more shooters there wouldn't be enough room to have a smooth shoot without backups at every target. We could add more ranges but who has the space for that? Wouldn't it be nice if there were so many shooters you would first have to qualify at the state level and could actually truly represent your state? From what we see with participation at nationals, it's not the length of the shoot that is the problem. It is the location. PA offers cheaper flights and less driving from airport or most people's homes. There is also an abundance of hotels and activities nearby. Darrington is a beautiful place but so hard to get to.

Expert round scoring IMO will not help anything as the people at the top usually miss no more than a half-1 inch out of the 5 anyway. It will just make a very large difference in the people who don't shoot so well. Counting x's as a 6 I think would be better but we are not at that point yet. First maybe we should just count them for tie breakers like the NFAA does for indoors. The length of the round is fine at least at the national level. Small local shoots might want to have a 14 target option and those who shoot 28 have only the best half count for awards. Chances are people will begin to shoot a full 28 to try to better themselves.

What I'd like to see is some people putting on a major shoot every year for example having a "Darrington Cup" or something where divisions are more like Vegas and people can win some money in the flights. Some big nationally attended shoots might increase local attendance because those who are going will need the practice. But overall, it's summertime people are hard at work during the week, most would rather relax at the beach or somewhere on their day off. Not work some more shooting arrows and being out in the heat. Indoors is prob more popular simply because there is nothing else to do.


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## XQuest (May 5, 2003)

I Love all this controversy, let me throw this in to add to the discussion. I shot Wed and couldn't physically shoot Thurs, shot animal Fri and felt if I shot Sat I couldn't shoot Sunday so I laid off Sat also. Since my body was dictating what shooting I could do (for the first time in my archery life), I came up with this. 
Most seniors and master seniors are retired or whatever and do not have the daily work schedules required but still have physical stamina problems such as above. This is somewhat of a joke but if the seniors and master seniors shot 14 targets every day and counted them all plus the animal 28 which is mandatory they would have a complete Field and Hunter plus plenty of strength each day and not on their feet so much.
Yeah I know it sounds lazy but I'm 75 and I love my archery but when my body says it's had enough, my mental prowness takes first loser position every time. I know I will catch heck for putting this out there but hey, its out there. How about you old guys giving some input to this.


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## brtesite (May 24, 2002)

XQuest said:


> I Love all this controversy, let me throw this in to add to the discussion. I shot Wed and couldn't physically shoot Thurs, shot animal Fri and felt if I shot Sat I couldn't shoot Sunday so I laid off Sat also. Since my body was dictating what shooting I could do (for the first time in my archery life), I came up with this.
> Most seniors and master seniors are retired or whatever and do not have the daily work schedules required but still have physical stamina problems such as above. This is somewhat of a joke but if the seniors and master seniors shot 14 targets every day and counted them all plus the animal 28 which is mandatory they would have a complete Field and Hunter plus plenty of strength each day and not on their feet so much.
> Yeah I know it sounds lazy but I'm 75 and I love my archery but when my body says it's had enough, my mental prowness takes first loser position every time. I know I will catch heck for putting this out there but hey, its out there. How about you old guys giving some input to this.


right on Dean,
I'm 79 & i took Sun off.the only ones that really shoot 5 days are the ones who have a shot at winning or the die hard young guys & the new guys like my sons.


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## brtesite (May 24, 2002)

nock tune said:


> I agree, But the guy that has control of the NFAA lives there!!!!


Dave, that is a bunch of BS.
I set that rotation up long before bruce became pres. It was done to try & service the membership so that every so often they would have a chance to shoot a national. It just so happens that Yankton is one of the rotation spots As well as Darrington. If a spot in deep Texas would put in for it, they would be on the rotation also. The way things are now, no one wants the outdoor nationals. One thing about Yankton good or bad, The day that no one else wants to put on the nationals, You will always have a place to go.


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

brtesite said:


> Dave, that is a bunch of BS.
> I set that rotation up long before bruce became pres. It was done to try & service the membership so that every so often they would have a chance to shoot a national. It just so happens that Yankton is one of the rotation spots As well as Darrington. If a spot in deep Texas would put in for it, they would be on the rotation also. The way things are now, no one wants the outdoor nationals. One thing about Yankton good or bad, The day that no one else wants to put on the nationals, You will always have a place to go.


Way to go DEAN and MIKE!
You hit the nail on the head! When I started in this game in 1969, the "rotation" was already in place...as long as BIDS WERE RECEIVED! Back then, however, there were more bids when each area came up for their turn, so the BEST BID won the right to host the Nationals.
We then lost Aurora as a standard site...sometime what? in the late 1970's or early 1980's? Now we've lost Watkins Glen? Now we don't get the bids like we used to, so we know we have Darrington out West (no other bidders either), Mechanicsburg in the East (again, likely no other bidders), and since there are no bidders in the Midwest...Yankton is the default.
Those of you bad-mouthing the locations? Well, simple....get your club or area to put in a bid for the Nationals...Many folks might well like to go down Deep in the heart of Texas for a NFAA Outdoor...or maybe even back to Detroit Lakes, MN...or heck, Clemson, SC, or Jay Peak, VT, or in Kansas City, or Bonner Springs...probably not much of a chance for Aurora, COLORADO, however...(1974). People talking about the "rotation" just don't know of what they are speaking.

People wanting 5 days or nothing...they, too, while some of their points are well taken...have to take a look at the makeup of the competitors...and folks, REALITY is...the majority are over age 50...and are in REALITY...the Seniors (age 55 minimum) or the MASTER Senior (age 65 minimum)...so...you accommodate those...
I like Dean's idea about if for THOSE divisions, accommodations were made for 14 per day...and they MUST shoot all 5 days, then that would definitely work, with ALL of them shooting 28 animal on one day (everyone shooting the same day). It is NO skin off the noses of the younger set that would shoot 28 targets per day, because the younger set doesn't shoot against the Seniors or Master Seniors...so who cares? This is one way of getting ALL the arrows to count, and not force the older set into what for them now has become a marathon.
I personally used to be able to easily shoot 56 targets a day; in fact, when I started competing, that is exactly what we did for local and state shoots...56 field on Saturday, and 56 hunter/28 animal on SUNDAY...with recurve bows! We were still off the ranges by 3PM, and normally didn't start until 8 or 9AM.
You'd never see anyone these days even trying that for a tournament...but it used to be the norm. Full FITA's in ONE day and do another FULL Fita on Sunday.
Not anymore, nor should we.

The rows and griping and rants will never be resolved...it is what it is each year...the rules and rotations are known in advance for everyone, and we all know deep down that those that want to will, and those that don't, won't...and many that don't will pee and moan and make up excuses.

field14 (Tom D.)


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## montigre (Oct 13, 2008)

We promote the snot out of archery in the state of Maryland. We have 15 active clubs and there’s a local field or indoor spot shoot nearly every weekend year round. I’m not even talking about the 3D leagues that also run pretty much year round. 

Here’s a photo of our shooters that made the trip to Mechanicsburg this year. Our archers ranged in age from their teens to their 70s, from Pros to average Joes, compound to recurve....we’re in it for the love of the sport. Yes, we have also seen our numbers declining over the years and the core people maintaining the ranges at our clubs are now those in their 50’s, 60s, and upward. 

I’m not sure if there is a single pill we can take to turn the tide, but I do know that endless bickering among ourselves is not going to get the job done. We have a viable system in place, let’s figure out how best to maximize the potential of that system that will allow the most amount of people access to this sport… :wink:


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## nock tune (Jul 5, 2009)

Mike you know as well as I that no one cares a bit about keeping the NFAA National field shoot alive or else the NFAA would have a committee looking into other venues. The few clubs left big enough to hold them are not going to keep bidding because theres no help from the top and the mohey they make is not enough for all the work they do!


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## nock tune (Jul 5, 2009)

Also this club bidding system is broken an need's to be revamped, without the help of the whole organization the NFAA National outdoors will become a thing of the past. Vegas an the INdoor get plenty of hipe but the outdoor may end up like the Atlantic city shoot. If the WAC would help out and make the outdoor Nationals part of its 3 tour system that could be what field archery needs.After all that what the F in NFAA stands for, Field archery! Plus Mike I don't know how you understood me saying anthing about who started what rotation when I agreed with DFA about Mechanicsburg being a better place than Yankton for a National Shoot!!! Ilike Darrington and will be there also , but we need to find so others areas that have or don"t have clubs to host this shoot.


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## Blinddog (Aug 10, 2005)

I am impressed with your numbers,indoor is not to much of a problem here in Missouri. Field is a different story. We had a challenge between a spot and a 3D shooter that resulted in a shoot that was called Missouri Top shot. To determine who was better spot shooters or 3D shooters. The shoot had 14 field,20 3D targets,and 1/2 of a NFAA 300 round.The shooter that won was a 3D guy who also won our state indoor the last two years. The sponsor of the shoot asked the 3D shooters if they liked the field targets everyones answer was yes, but they would not go to a field shoot or have any desire to shoot it on a regular basis.I don't know how to promote the sport to the majority when they don't care to listen. I used to think we needed more field ranges, but now I think building them would be like rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. I have nothing against 3D I just like field better and don't understand why we can't get more shooters.


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## Rattleman (Jul 6, 2004)

I like the 3 day event. That being said how about you pay for 3 days and shoot the 3 days. Then if you think that you can up your score then you can pay for a 2nd round. That round would include the animal and the last 2 rounds. If you pay for the 2nd set of rounds then you must keep these scores... If you only want to shoot 3 days then you can shoot any of the selected rounds on the days you chose as long as those rounds are being shot on the day you want to shoot. ie Hunter (day 1) Field ( day 2) and animal on the 3rd day. or you can shoot the last 3 days or if you choose you can shoot day1 (hunter) day 3(Animal) and the last day (Field). I don't like the idea of throwing out lower scores without being penilized. I think the PROS should shoot all 5 days.


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## Supermag1 (Jun 11, 2009)

DFA said:


> Look at the attendance for Yankton comparedto Mechanicsburg or Watkins Glen yet we keep going back to places like Yankton. I believe that if the Nationals were held in Mechanicsburg for 5 years in a row the attendance would grow. It is just plain a better location with much better ranges. After all most field shooters come from the east coast anyway. They obviously like the location when over 500show up to shoot compared to 300 in Yankton.
> Just my .02...........
> DFA


I doubt it would do any better there where it would have to compete head to head with the IBO and ASA shoots that are in the area. There is zero promotion for the National Unmarked shoot and you have to get lucky while surfing their website to even find the entry form for it. If you don't think there are any 3D shooters west of the Mississippi, you are sorely mistaken. There will a 40 target 3D shoot at a local club here in Nebraska on Labor Day weekend that will have more shooters than Yankton did. Field14 is correct about the NFAA's biggest attendance problem being promotion but it extends well beyond the field shoots.


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## brtesite (May 24, 2002)

nock tune said:


> Mike you know as well as I that no one cares a bit about keeping the NFAA National field shoot alive or else the NFAA would have a committee looking into other venues. The few clubs left big enough to hold them are not going to keep bidding because theres no help from the top and the mohey they make is not enough for all the work they do!


Dave,how much money do the clubs want?
The split is 50% of the gate. The NFAA pays for all of the targets on cardboard, all of the score cards, & all of the awards. The clubs can generate extra money from the food, have raffles, cook outs, run a 3D prior to the shoot on mon & tues as well as have practice ranges open on the non shoot days & after the days shooting is over. They can also hustle up local sponsors for their book that is issued.
Money can be made. Get Tim to try to get that committee for you. You are correct about that.


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## brtesite (May 24, 2002)

nock tune said:


> Also this club bidding system is broken an need's to be revamped, without the help of the whole organization the NFAA National outdoors will become a thing of the past. Vegas an the INdoor get plenty of hipe but the outdoor may end up like the Atlantic city shoot. If the WAC would help out and make the outdoor Nationals part of its 3 tour system that could be what field archery needs.After all that what the F in NFAA stands for, Field archery! Plus Mike I don't know how you understood me saying anthing about who started what rotation when I agreed with DFA about Mechanicsburg being a better place than Yankton for a National Shoot!!! Ilike Darrington and will be there also , but we need to find so others areas that have or don"t have clubs to host this shoot.


Dave ,only reason that I replied, was that you felt that Yankton was in the mix because Bruce lives there. As for who has the best place to shoot, I agree with you. Not all of the places we have or have had are equal in what they have to offer. We lost the Glen which has the most archery history of any place that I know of. I like the idea of putting the outdoor on the tour & I do agree that the F stands for Field .I fought that battle when I was able to. Now I'm just like you


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

brtesite said:


> Dave,how much money do the clubs want?
> The split is 50% of the gate. The NFAA pays for all of the targets on cardboard, all of the score cards, & all of the awards. The clubs can generate extra money from the food, have raffles, cook outs, run a 3D prior to the shoot on mon & tues as well as have practice ranges open on the non shoot days & after the days shooting is over. They can also hustle up local sponsors for their book that is issued.
> Money can be made. Get Tim to try to get that committee for you. You are correct about that.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't most clubs filed with the IRS as "non-profit organizations"? So, my question is, like Mike's..."How much do you want to make? If you show a 'profit' at the end of the year and don't tell the IRS, the club can be in big trouble in a hurry! Like Mike says, the NFAA pays for most everything that really 'costs' for putting on the shoot...the targets, the scorecards, and the awards. There ARE ways the club can make additional money...and ways the local clubs can help "draw in" more of the Pros...but it definitely involves getting out on the local level and pounding the bricks for CONTRIBUTIONS to the "Donated money Purse" and then contributions to DOOR PRIZES for everyone attending.
Attendance can be built with much better advertising...and it doesn't have to come ONLY from the NFAA either...the host club, just like Mechanicsburg has done in the past must get out and advertise, and it doesn't cost an arm and a leg to do that; not with the wonderful world of the internet it doesn't. The same goes to the host SECTION for the NFAA Outdoor Nationals..the SECTION member states should also be out promoting the event and putting out notices as well. The old "you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours" routine...and it works, too.

Bickering over 3 days, 5 days, and 3 OR 5 days is useless and divisive. The rules are announced well in advance, and everyone has the same opportunities to go with how the format is set up. Learn to live with it. I'm old school, but getting older quickly...and I don't know, even in spite of being in danged good aerobic and physical shape, if I would elect to shoot all 5 rounds or not. I'd be more inclined to go with the flow and see how the body was responding to the conditions...and fold 'em if I had to, but that is me; others obviously feel differently about the situations.

Sounds to me like the idea to put the NFAA Outdoor on the "TOUR" and call it a 4-Star Tour instead of three is viable, realistic, and may well be what is needed. The car doesn't HAVE to be shot for at YANKTON or the Classic...it can easily be done at the NFAA National Outdoor Field Championships.
Perhaps an AGENDA ITEM to add the NFAA Outdoor Nationals to the "Tour" is definitely in order!!!!
field14 (Tom D.)


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## montigre (Oct 13, 2008)

field14 said:


> Sounds to me like the idea to put the NFAA Outdoor on the "TOUR" and call it a 4-Star Tour instead of three is viable, realistic, and may well be what is needed. The car doesn't HAVE to be shot for at YANKTON or the Classic...it can easily be done at the NFAA National Outdoor Field Championships. Perhaps an AGENDA ITEM to add the NFAA Outdoor Nationals to the "Tour" is definitely in order!!!! field14 (Tom D.)


Tom, Now, I really like that idea!! I don't mean to whine, but perhaps if the NFAA National Outdoor Field Championships were part of a 4 tier tour, then we would not have to search through the "documents" section of the NFAA website to find information on what is supposed to be the biggest outdoor shoot of the year. Having to do so really made me feel like an unwanted stepchild. Yes, I am still very much a novice and yes, I also shoot NFAA target and even some Fita competitions, but my passion is for field archery. So, when I had to decide which national organization to join, it was my choice to become a lifetime NFAA member. I hope that somehow, someday, the "FIELD" can be put back into the NFAA and we all (field and target shooters), as paying and contributing members, get the equal promotion from our national organization that we deserve.


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

montigre said:


> Tom, Now, I really like that idea!! I don't mean to whine, but perhaps if the NFAA National Outdoor Field Championships were part of a 4 tier tour, then we would not have to search through the "documents" section of the NFAA website to find information on what is supposed to be the biggest outdoor shoot of the year. Having to do so really made me feel like an unwanted stepchild. Yes, I am still very much a novice and yes, I also shoot NFAA target and even some Fita competitions, but my passion is for field archery. So, when I had to decide which national organization to join, it was my choice to become a lifetime NFAA member. I hope that somehow, someday, the "FIELD" can be put back into the NFAA and we all (field and target shooters), as paying and contributing members, get the equal promotion from our national organization that we deserve.


That isn't MY idea...it was posted earlier, and makes a lot of sense to me, too.
However, nothing will get done unless an agenda item is written in the proper format and proper words plus getting the signature support to get it onto the agenda for the next NFAA Director's meeting...AND...since it may well be a change to the WAF...I'm clueless as to how the person writing the agenda item can get it to the WAF in order to get action on the change/addition???

field14 (Tom D.)


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## NICEL8D (Jul 14, 2008)

montigre said:


> Tom, Now, I really like that idea!! I don't mean to whine, but perhaps if the NFAA National Outdoor Field Championships were part of a 4 tier tour, then we would not have to search through the "documents" section of the NFAA website to find information on what is supposed to be the biggest outdoor shoot of the year. Having to do so really made me feel like an unwanted stepchild. Yes, I am still very much a novice and yes, I also shoot NFAA target and even some Fita competitions, but my passion is for field archery. So, when I had to decide which national organization to join, it was my choice to become a lifetime NFAA member. I hope that somehow, someday, the "FIELD" can be put back into the NFAA and we all (field and target shooters), as paying and contributing members, get the equal promotion from our national organization that we deserve.


As someone on the host club side of things, I strongly suggested placing a quick link to the information on their site like the other "big" tournaments have. You have no clue how many calls and emails I got and had to do my own digging before I found where the information was at!!


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## JF from VA (Dec 5, 2002)

Julia, you are 100% correct. I did not know that shoot information was located in the Documents section until someone told me. If the NFAA wants to promote this event, a quick link in the sidebar would be very helpful.


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## Spoon13 (Feb 20, 2007)

field14 said:


> That isn't MY idea...it was posted earlier, and makes a lot of sense to me, too.
> However, nothing will get done unless an agenda item is written in the proper format and proper words plus getting the signature support to get it onto the agenda for the next NFAA Director's meeting...AND...since it may well be a change to the WAF...I'm clueless as to how the person writing the agenda item can get it to the WAF in order to get action on the change/addition???
> 
> field14 (Tom D.)



Actually since the the WAF is a separate body outside of the control of the NFAA Directors, it wouldn't require an agenda item. The Executive Council would just need to decide whether or not they want to include it in the Tour. So all you really need to do is talk to your Councilman and try and convince them to make that adjustment.


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## JEDIROCK (Feb 1, 2003)

Much written here and lots of good points both ways. 
It would appear to me that NFAA will decide format for amateurs as well as Pros whether it is a 3 or 5 day tournament. I am not in favor of the "mulligan" rounds for any class for this level of tournament. I feel that if the arrow is shot it should count. Too much unfairness due to weather, bad shots, etc. 
If the event is 5 days, what would be wrong with amateurs having to declare that they want to have their round count for score *before they shoot *either their hunter or field rounds? People would then have a choice of shooting and traveling for 3 or 5 days as their schedules allow and scoring would be on the same amount of rounds shot for score. Seems like that would take care of concerns both ways with travel costs, scores, etc., etc.
Just my $.02


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