# When does release execution begin?



## ron w (Jan 5, 2013)

regardless of what most people say about the shot being a smooth continuous flow, we all make a decision at some point in out shot process, to run the release, when that decision is made, is when the release execution begins. for some , those with a nice slow float and consistent target acquisition, the decision is made early in the shot process, because they know, the hold will be there, to support the release execution, for others, that decision is a bit more deliberate and they have to see that they are settled on the spot, before initiating the release. it is why the let down, becomes a particularly important part of the shot process. it establishes that we don't "push", or "force" the shot, and that results in a generally better , more relaxed hold, that better supports the release execution.
so you might say that, when the "release execution" begins, is when you recognize that your hold or float has settled in and is decent enough to produce the shot you want. the earlier we recognize this condition, the more "flowing" our shot process proceeds.
this specific area and element of our shot, is what the top pros work on the most, as they practice


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

For me I have struggled with this for the last 2 years and didn't even notice there was a problem until the last 5 months. I study my float a lot and I finally realized that my float pattern starts and is awesome about a half second after settling into my anchor and moving the pin to the spot. Then for 5 seconds I have a pro quality float that can stay on a 1.5 inch 12 ring at 50 yards for the 5 seconds, after that 5 seconds it is progressively worse and never gets better only worse.

Now for me the struggle was that for years I was coming to anchor and settling in on the spot and then watching my float for 3 or 4 seconds and when it really looked good I would then start my engine but by the time it fired I was at 8 to 10 seconds of float and the good float had left the building. This winter I had my best indoor shooting ever once I decided to simply start my firing engine the moment I settled in on the x without waiting and I simply stopped missing x's for a week at a time .

Leading into the paris texas asa I hadn't been able to commit to this same approach to shooting 3d, I was convincing myself that 3d was harder and different because the spot to hit was harder to see and settle in on so I was floating for a good 5 seconds and trying to make sure I was in the right place before running the engine. For two weeks I convinced myself that I was going to simply find my spot before drawing the bow and once I drew the bow I was going to settle in on that spot in about 1 second and then run my engine and shoot the shot. I totally shot 20 up for the weekend and had my best asa experience I have ever had, my shooting was relaxed and solid and letting go of the stress just getting the engine started was a really huge thing.


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## cbrunson (Oct 25, 2010)

ron w said:


> regardless of what most people say about the shot being a smooth continuous flow, we all make a decision at some point in out shot process, to run the release, when that decision is made, is when the release execution begins. for some , those with a nice slow float and consistent target acquisition, the decision is made early in the shot process, because they know, the hold will be there, to support the release execution, for others, that decision is a bit more deliberate and they have to see that they are settled on the spot, before initiating the release. it is why the let down, becomes a particularly important part of the shot process. it establishes that we don't "push", or "force" the shot, and that results in a generally better , more relaxed hold, that better supports the release execution.
> so you might say that, when the "release execution" begins, is when you recognize that your hold or float has settled in and is decent enough to produce the shot you want. the earlier we recognize this condition, the more "flowing" our shot process proceeds.
> this specific area and element of our shot, is what the top pros work on the most, as they practice


Pretty much spot on for me. ^^^^


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## N7709K (Dec 17, 2008)

My decision to shoot the shot is kinda two-fold; the shot has to start right, when I hit anchor and settle in it needs to feel correct. If that feels correct then it comes down to when the dot gets on target. If I don't have my dot in the middle I'm not committing to the shot. I don't put more thought into it than that; I either shoot good shots or I don't, no reason to complicate it.


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## montigre (Oct 13, 2008)

So most of you are stating that it is a conscious 3-stage process that eventually appears to become a seamless transition from draw through execution as one's muscle memory takes over and the decisions to fire or not are made more quickly? Very interesting topic. Thanks, Iowa for bringing it up.

Ron, thanks for your description--it is very insightful!!


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## bhutso (Jan 4, 2007)

I've also struggled with not only when to start but starting and stopping the firing engine as my pin floats off, I've come the conclusion in my own shooting that starting my release execution early works best. I basically find the spot I want to hit on the 3d draw anchor and "setup my release" I used the relax and pull method with a thumb release right now and it is totally subconscious once I lock my thumb around the trigger, my hand will relax and I will pull to take up any slack the relaxing creates. So that part just happens for me. My conscious decision to shoot is made before the aiming starts. Once I'm all setup and the execution has begun I become a spectator as pagett describes. I'm just watching my spot for that arrow to hit it. No straining or trying to burn a hole in it, not over focused just watching. It has worked very well for me lately. 
Last night in league I shot even for 16 targets 2 arrows each target 40 yard max and about 32 yard average distance. 4 12s and 4 8s. Not my best score ever but we were shooting high 12s so 10s are a good score and I was conservative. On all but my 4 8s I hit were I was looking.

That is a level of consistancy I've never experienced. And I've only been using back tension about 3 months, I learned with a hinge and switched to the thumb trigger for consistancy. I still practice with a hinge but for the past 20 years I've been a index finger command shooter.


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## N7709K (Dec 17, 2008)

i wouldn't say so much that it is a "3-stage" process as it is just a broken down explanation of how your shot flows. its similar to the steps they teach in the USA coaching training- once you have your shot down, you no longer go through each step as and individual step. As you progress as a shooter you lose the distinction between steps: you draw, aim, go count x's... adn you don't break it down farther than that.

be careful as to not overaim and put too much emphasis on sight picture....


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## ron w (Jan 5, 2013)

you can't put too much emphasis on "sight picture"....sight picture, along with a decent execution, is what you use to produce a shot that goes where you want it to go. the entire idea of concentration on the spot the arrow should hit, is all and entirey about "sight picture"....when it's not right, the arrow doesn't go where it should.
it is the very reason, you have to experiment with dots and rings to find the "sight picture" that puts your aiming process at ease and in a comfortable condition.
beyond a good physical shot execution, the sight picture is the next most importatnt aspect of good archery, providing all the bi-mechanical elementary conditions are met....bow tune , fit, peep position, etc.


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## cbmac (May 24, 2006)

My first hinge release had a thumb post. I would draw with the pressure on the post, anchor, attain a steady sight picture, then move the thumb off the post as a deliberate motion to initiate the release execution. My current releases do not have a post, but I use the same thumb movement to initiate the shot. This gives me a deliberate transition to release execution. Down side of this sometimes shows up when I'm tired or having a bad day - the thumb movement can slightly wiggle the anchor and sight picture at a critical time in the shot sequence... Anybody else use a similar maneuver?


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

Cbmac, I hated the transition from being on the thumb peg and feeling nice and strong and then releasing the thumb peg and feeling weaker. I never could find a place that I liked to put my thumb after taking it off either. This spring I worked for a couple of months and developed a firing engine where I don't take my thumb off the thumb peg anymore and I fire my hinge with my thumb on the peg.

It really is cool and basically what is happening when you take your finger off the thumb peg your index finger must receive all the holding weight that the thumb was holding because you are taking it off the peg, this makes the index finger hold everything on one side of the d loop and your other two fingers share the other side of the d-loop. This is where most people have trouble and freeze up because the index finger is under a lot of pressure and won't yield it enough and allow the hinge to rotate. By learning to run a engine that includes my thumb now my index finger doesn't have to do any extra work and it isn't freezing up.

Just some food for thought.


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## cbmac (May 24, 2006)

Padget 

Thanks for the comments. I've realized the issue with thumb movement mentioned above for a long time - won't call it a problem - but a weakness. I've never thought about eliminating that step. I'll experiment with this later today. Thanks for the suggestion.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

I haven't even made a firing engine article to give to the guys that I coach with this method, I have been doing it for a while and don't see me ever stopping because it is that awesome but I don't write articles until I believe in something and trust that it has something to offer people.

Really it is simple and didn't really do anything special, I have my hinge set up so that the tip of my thumb is touching my index finger slightly as I draw the bow and this is my reference point or safety feature of the firing engine. Then I settle into my anchor and start aiming and I start my firing engine by smoothly pulling into the wall and my thumb leaves the index finger and I stretch out my hand by yielding and my thumb stretches also right along with the rest of my fingers and the arrow is gone. It is so freaking awesome and weird at the same time to not let off any thumb pressure, the whole time I am still holding all of the weight that I drew with on all fingers equally including the thumb. I think the coolest thing is the fact that the index finger never has to accept any extra holding weight, for me this little firing engine is so smooth because there is really no transition of poundage within the shot coming from anchor to aiming to firing, I feel the same the whole time.


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## N7709K (Dec 17, 2008)

Some emphasis is needed- too much is bad. There is a difference between being comfortable and over emphasis on sight picture. I can have the best sight picture in the world but with sub par execution they don't score well... I can have the opposite as well; good shots an shoot form, you will get the scores you want. 

That said- I'm out


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## possum trapper (Nov 24, 2005)

well in shooting major indoor tourneys sight picture isn't always gonna be there and when that happens in the first and last ends or whenever you get nervous.it all goes back to release execution IMO.your picture may be sloppy but if your release hand is good the arrow is going in the middle....

your bow hand is not directly on the arrow like your release hand is and imo that's why your release hand is so much more important than bow hand but they are both important.

so when does release execution start?????it starts when you grab it out of release pouch.if you handle it differently than you have in practice or even the arrow before.different tension on fingers to me all is part of release execution.having too much tension on index finger could be why people could struggle with a hinge while drawing the bow.

thinking soft hands is the way to go.

then we can get into micro managing you aiming dot causing the execution to stall..... don't aim for the center.....center your aiming dot and I believe thats what keeps guys from over
aiming


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

Padgett said:


> I haven't even made a firing engine article to give to the guys that I coach with this method, I have been doing it for a while and don't see me ever stopping because it is that awesome but I don't write articles until I believe in something and trust that it has something to offer people.
> 
> Really it is simple and didn't really do anything special, I have my hinge set up so that the tip of my thumb is touching my index finger slightly as I draw the bow and this is my reference point or safety feature of the firing engine. Then I settle into my anchor and start aiming and I start my firing engine by smoothly pulling into the wall and my thumb leaves the index finger and I stretch out my hand by yielding and my thumb stretches also right along with the rest of my fingers and the arrow is gone. It is so freaking awesome and weird at the same time to not let off any thumb pressure, the whole time I am still holding all of the weight that I drew with on all fingers equally including the thumb. I think the coolest thing is the fact that the index finger never has to accept any extra holding weight, for me this little firing engine is so smooth because there is really no transition of poundage within the shot coming from anchor to aiming to firing, I feel the same the whole time.


Thanks for this. I've been struggling with the transition from on the peg to off the peg. I think I will need to set my release just a little hotter though.
Off to the bale!


-Grant


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## dua lam pa (May 29, 2014)

2 second rule applies 
set up 
shoot 
if 2 seconds passes , begin agin


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## carlielos (May 12, 2007)

Lots of good stuff in this thread.
That being said it brings up a couple of thoughts.
For me a lot of it comes down to the bow arm as much as the release.
Relaxing the bow arm and hand makes it all happen, on the back end I'm mostly holding my secure anchor, so I would say the start of my execution is the moment I'm settled and began to relax my bow hand.
On days where I'm stressed relaxing the bow hand is difficult, and sometimes my scores reflect it especially outdoors, I put this to myself as not practicing enough, so in the end I guess it all boils down to how bad do you want it! 
I would say that my technique is a form of spectator shooting, I don't try to center my dot, but rather center my aiming subconsciously.
Basically I decide where I want to hit and just spectate and watch my arrow go where I aim.
Nothing concious on the release hand, no deliberate motions there but relaxing the bow arm is conscious.
Once I start the process It takes about three to five seconds.


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## jrdrees (Jun 12, 2010)

Good info here, it's an area I've been working on lately and am relieved to see others addressing it. I've been working on spotting the float break-down so I can let down, and not waste those shots. In doing this I believe I've created more tension in my index finger as I let off my thumb peg because I know I'm only going to take a strong shot or let down. So now I let down a lot... I use a click and have wondered how I might benefit from flipping the moon over but am afraid of not knowing how close I am to dumping the shot should I decide to let down? Anyone notice an improvement going from click to no-click?


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## N7709K (Dec 17, 2008)

when set correctly clicks work well; but i prefer no click. 

i would put the time into lowering your emphasis on aiming and instead work on shooting good shots. if you go into the shot telling yourself that you will only rip through the release or let down you will be very hesitant.


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## Blue X (Dec 22, 2007)

The whole point of the subconscious release is because we cant think about two things at the same time. This point is the human weakest link in archery. 

Where the mind is, or has to be is the answer to your question. Humans can only concentrate on a single thing uninterrupted for 3 sec max and probably like the middle 1.5 sec of that is actual serious focus. the whole execution process should be built around keeping the mind focused on the spot you want to hit. For these few moments there is virtually no sight movement. 

Your eyes normally are looking in two parallel lines thru infinity, when focused, they pull into the center and meet where your focusing. 

View your shot sequence like a time line. 

I am going to Start with the draw for this conversation. 

Draw with elbow following a high arc to engage correct muscles during the draw to use for execution.

Expand and get in-between the bow.

Tilt into anchor. 

acquire target ( you are not aiming yet) sight will be relatively near the center but its not important where, we just acquired and are not into the focused aim. 

go/no go (does it feel good and look fair to support a quality shot? if so, go. If not, no go, let down and start again.)

Begin execution. (we can expect this to make the sight move because we moved both our body and our mind away from the target, but it dont matter because were not aiming yet)

Return focus to the target ( this brings your mind back to the target after the release process has done been started.)

Aim ( this is those 3 seconds I was talking about before.)

Release fires ( due to the motion we started after the go/no go)



During the 3 seconds called the aim everything is done started and no more reason to take your mind away from aiming. When the aim begins, the sight probably wont be exactly where you want it to be. But as you focus on the center of the target your eyes will pull together and your subconscious mind will pull the sight into the center. 

People can call this trusting their float. But the important thing is, your not into a focused aim but only a few moments and for those few moments, your sight will be where you want it to be. 

By Keeping the focused aim the last thing in your shot and the focus unbroken for the last most important part of your shot, it keeps from frying your mind and makes archery easy again. 

Blue X


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## Strodav (Apr 25, 2012)

I move from setup to execution at the click of my hinge. By that time I'm completely settled in focused on the target, letting the pin float, relaxing my release hand while stretching using my back muscles.


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## ron w (Jan 5, 2013)

that is the correct way.....
you have to separate the shot process, into ,"anchor and target acquisition",.... before the click..... and "hard aim and shot execution", ...after the click. those that don't do this, are the guys that say, "they can't get used to the click", or "the click makes them jumpy", or similar.
the point is that the click is there, and you have to accommodate your process to it. if you do that it is helpful, be establishing a base point, from which to execute your shot, from the same starting point every shot.
now, not every body needs that "base point".....but the idea is that you won't know if it helps you to have it, unless you try it....but you need to understand that you have to modify your shoot process, for the click, to try it decently.


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## subconsciously (Aug 22, 2009)

When doe execution begin? About 2 seconds before the arrow hits the target. Execution is the act of the arrow leaving the bow with follow through as your conclusion to your execution. Anything before that is just another step.


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## Iowa shooter (Feb 23, 2013)

I've been reading Terry Wunderhle's book. He says execution begins once the pin is on target and then settles.


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## ron w (Jan 5, 2013)

basically, the start of the execution is defined by the amount of time it takes to let the pin or dot settle. everyone is a bit different here and we all have a specific amount of time that results in the best shot. this pin settling is defined as your "shot window" or "aiming sweet spot". the ideal situation is to train your execution to culminate inside that shot window, which means the arrow leaves when the pin is in it's most still condition. there are drills to establish this sweet spot, or shot window. 
search "shot timing" and "shot window"....lots of reading.


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## dad2sixmonkeys (Jun 26, 2011)

Tagged to read later


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## redcarpet (Mar 31, 2013)

Tagged for more learning. I have been trying for the last week to use back tension to shoot my thumb trigger release. Seems to be helping a little bit. Still trying to get a sequence down.


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## ron w (Jan 5, 2013)

the idea of using back tension to shoot any release is that with back tension, there is no anticipation of the shot by your skeletal structure, the shot explodes naturally and follow through is true and repeatable, no outside input to the shot other than what is caused by the limits of your anatomy as it unloads the tension of holding the bow at full draw.


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