# NYS Hunters Feeling Betrayed



## Campo (Sep 20, 2006)

Ok, so you are slamming the guy for what reason?

Can you justify why he should not have been elected to the post?

More details please, more details!

You cant just set the guy up to be the target of hunters complaints and not tell us why you are doing it!


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## doctariAFC (Aug 25, 2005)

Campo said:


> Ok, so you are slamming the guy for what reason?
> 
> Can you justify why he should not have been elected to the post?
> 
> ...


I thought I did. 

Who was elected to what post? Mr John was hired by Grannis.

For complete information on this subject, I would refer you to the myriad of posts on Grannis that were put up last year - end of January through March 2007.

Those in NYS who got involved, all 500,000 + of us, know what the details are, some of which are contained in the many threads on this subject. Search on Grannis and you'll find 'em.


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## doctariAFC (Aug 25, 2005)

ttt


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## myrmidon (Aug 24, 2005)

*After returning to New York after a 12 year residency in Florida , it's nice to see thing's haven't changed . Still Dirty politics 
Stayus Quo*


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## TXWhackMaster (May 12, 2006)

doctariAFC said:


> .....
> 
> Betrayal doesn't even come close to describing this mess. Et Tu Brute?
> .....


"The noble Brutus hath told you Ceasar was ambitious"...

Sounds like Brutus had some ambitions of his own. It's sad how easily ambition can steal the honor of one of our own in the political arena.

Good luck ... I hope you find a noble replacement.


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## cwa1104sab (Aug 7, 2005)

Yo Doc...
I read on here more than I post(as do a lot of others) and as a fellow NY hunter I cant help but think a lot of the time you seem angry at stuff. Dude relax a little. Enjoy our sport while you can, and I mean that both ways- 1 while you're alive and 2 before the right to hunt is taken away. I realize that you're passionate, and I commend you for that but you always seem angry and come across as you're ready to challenge everything that posters say as well as the DEC. Campo is not from our state so maybe he glasses over when he sees NY stuff but he asked for info, give it to him, don't just give an abrupt search Grannis answer. I really havent seen what Grannis has done so far that's bad. He might never help us but I have yet to see him hurt us. Before anyone asks I'm not an employee of the DEC but I am on the DEC citizens waterfowl commitee. This is all JMHO


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## Campo (Sep 20, 2006)

Campo was a 26 year resident of New York (Delaware County) before he moved to Colorado last June. I still care about what happens in New York, but, Colorado is not my home, so my focus is jaded.

I also agree that Doc needs to calm down a bit. As a matter of fact, I posted that about a week ago.



cwa1104sab said:


> Yo Doc...
> I read on here more than I post(as do a lot of others) and as a fellow NY hunter I cant help but think a lot of the time you seem angry at stuff. Dude relax a little. Enjoy our sport while you can, and I mean that both ways- 1 while you're alive and 2 before the right to hunt is taken away. I realize that you're passionate, and I commend you for that but you always seem angry and come across as you're ready to challenge everything that posters say as well as the DEC. Campo is not from our state so maybe he glasses over when he sees NY stuff but he asked for info, give it to him, don't just give an abrupt search Grannis answer. I really havent seen what Grannis has done so far that's bad. He might never help us but I have yet to see him hurt us. Before anyone asks I'm not an employee of the DEC but I am on the DEC citizens waterfowl commitee. This is all JMHO


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## doctariAFC (Aug 25, 2005)

cwa1104sab said:


> Yo Doc...
> I read on here more than I post(as do a lot of others) and as a fellow NY hunter I cant help but think a lot of the time you seem angry at stuff. Dude relax a little. Enjoy our sport while you can, and I mean that both ways- 1 while you're alive and 2 before the right to hunt is taken away. I realize that you're passionate, and I commend you for that but you always seem angry and come across as you're ready to challenge everything that posters say as well as the DEC. Campo is not from our state so maybe he glasses over when he sees NY stuff but he asked for info, give it to him, don't just give an abrupt search Grannis answer. I really havent seen what Grannis has done so far that's bad. He might never help us but I have yet to see him hurt us. Before anyone asks I'm not an employee of the DEC but I am on the DEC citizens waterfowl commitee. This is all JMHO


Look, I'm not going to rehash the history of the Grannis fight. These are already here.

Have you followed what has been happening in the DEC since Grannis took charge?

I don't bash the DEC - at least not those doing the work, such as the ECOs and the Biologists. Most of the Regional Directors are ok, too..... But, what Grannis has been doing with this department is to transform this body into the GLOBAL WARMING CLIMATE CHANGE POLICE, while fish & game gets somewhat of a shaft. At least he is being receptive to the earlier opening of Bear Season in Catskills and Allegany Ranges, something of a surprise, considering his past comments on Anti's "dedication" to the cause when New Jersey considers a bear hunt, or when shooting nuisance geese are considered (from the Albany Times in 2003).

But, perhaps you may have missed what he is trying to do to the trappers? If you would like to know more about this effort, please let me know. The DEC crafts regulations addressing wildlife/ fisheries and natural resources protection and management. The DEC is now making regulations to protect HOUSE PETS first, rather than wildlife first. 

Is that a good thing? Again, if you need the proposals and such on his activities since he took over, let me know......

Seems like many NYS Hunters already have lost all trust in this department, considering the decline in license sales this past season. It has been reported NYS lost another 150,000! Whether that is actual hunters, or license/ tag sales, I have yet to see. But you don't have to look too hard for answers. But you do have to look.....

I am passionate because I am involved on the front lines. I go to Albany to speak to the politicians. I volunteer on youth programs. I serve my County's Sportsmen and women as an officer in the Erie County Federation.

And I have a bat phone when poop floats to the surface, I know about it faster than most


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## cwa1104sab (Aug 7, 2005)

Campo didnt realize you were one of us... Where in Del. ??? I hunted around Colchester forever before I went east to the farms of Greene Co. Why'd you leave?? I've often thought of retiring to WY or Co how do you like it??


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## TXWhackMaster (May 12, 2006)

cwa1104sab said:


> Yo Doc...
> I read on here more than I post(as do a lot of others) and as a fellow NY hunter I cant help but think a lot of the time you seem angry at stuff. Dude relax a little. Enjoy our sport while you can, and I mean that both ways- 1 while you're alive and 2 before the right to hunt is taken away. I realize that you're passionate, and I commend you for that but you always seem angry and come across as you're ready to challenge everything that posters say as well as the DEC. Campo is not from our state so maybe he glasses over when he sees NY stuff but he asked for info, give it to him, don't just give an abrupt search Grannis answer. I really havent seen what Grannis has done so far that's bad. He might never help us but I have yet to see him hurt us. Before anyone asks I'm not an employee of the DEC but I am on the DEC citizens waterfowl commitee. This is all JMHO


Doc spends countless hours as an activist for all of the rights that we as sportsmen hold dear. The exhaustive hours he spends in research and activism are easily documented. 
I think he knows that our fight will never allow him to "relax" the fight or his passion.


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## Campo (Sep 20, 2006)

I used to live in Meridale, which is right near Delhi....great deer hunting.

I moved to Colorado because I wanted to try out elk hunting and also to live in a new place.

Colorado is incredible!

Back to topic....



cwa1104sab said:


> Campo didnt realize you were one of us... Where in Del. ??? I hunted around Colchester forever before I went east to the farms of Greene Co. Why'd you leave?? I've often thought of retiring to WY or Co how do you like it??


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## booger (Mar 19, 2006)

doctariAFC said:


> However, both of these orgs, led by NYSCC, decided to defy the will of the membership and hold neutral on the issue, citing *the 501c3 non-profit laws forbidding involvement in public elections as the reason, which is bunk as this law does NOT apply to political APPOINTMENTS*. The Legislative VP for NYSCC, Wally John, was pushing for acceptance of Grannis as a "done deal", despite massive objection from the sporting community bacross the Empire State.
> 
> 
> QUOTE]
> ...


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## foxtail (Dec 13, 2007)

I feel bad for you guys in NYS.

I wish you guys could give your state government an enema.

NY trappers are taking it in the poop chute too.


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## doctariAFC (Aug 25, 2005)

booger said:


> doctariAFC said:
> 
> 
> > However, both of these orgs, led by NYSCC, decided to defy the will of the membership and hold neutral on the issue, citing *the 501c3 non-profit laws forbidding involvement in public elections as the reason, which is bunk as this law does NOT apply to political APPOINTMENTS*. The Legislative VP for NYSCC, Wally John, was pushing for acceptance of Grannis as a "done deal", despite massive objection from the sporting community bacross the Empire State.
> ...


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## Squirrelhntr91 (Nov 5, 2006)

Easy there other state residents. Looks to me like you guys haven't a clue what is going on here in NY and you definitely cannot say a damn thing about it. Do you guys even know who this guy Grannis is? He's a real scumbag.


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## AdvanTimberLou (Aug 8, 2005)

Squirrelhntr91 said:


> Easy there other state residents. Looks to me like you guys haven't a clue what is going on here in NY and you definitely cannot say a damn thing about it.
> 
> 
> > Easy there Joe on the other state residents and their comments, hunters get more with strength in numbers regardless of where they call home. So please allow them to have there say. We all try to fight the same fight!!


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## cwa1104sab (Aug 7, 2005)

Squirrelhntr91 said:


> Easy there other state residents. Looks to me like you guys haven't a clue what is going on here in NY and you definitely cannot say a damn thing about it. Do you guys even know who this guy Grannis is? He's a real scumbag.



Whoa I'm thinking that since I'm a vet and I defended everyones right to free speech, whether I agree with what they're saying or not, they have a right to say what they want.....


Back on topic, I'm not a trapper so I don't know about what Grannis is doing on that front but I do Hunt-gun and bow, big game and small game as well as waterfowl and fish and I'm unaware of what he's done since he took office that is so bad for us. AM I missing the boat? Can someone please give me a specific thing he's done thats against us as hunters or fisherman, or are we just hating him because he's anti trapping. Please explain


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## booger (Mar 19, 2006)

doctariAFC said:


> booger said:
> 
> 
> > Not true. *The law states that a 501c3 Corp cannot endorse nor oppose any individual running in a public election*. We cannot fund-raise for any politician, and as a group, officially, we cannot disparage the efforts of the politicians (although as individuals we certainly can and do).
> ...


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## booger (Mar 19, 2006)

*Here*

From RIA checkpoint:

Examples illustrate prohibited and permissible political activities of tax-exempts
Rev Rul 2007-41, 2007-25 IRB 
As detailed below, tax-exempts face loss of their exempt status and excise taxes if they engage in certain prohibited political activities. As the 2008 Presidential election season begins to heat up, a new revenue ruling illustrates permissible and prohibited political activity in the context of 21 examples. 

RIA recommendation: Practitioners should make sure that affected clients strictly adhere to the new guidance as IRS last year signalled that it is going to more vigorously enforce the political activity rules in upcoming elections. 
Background. Under Code Sec. 501(c)(3) , tax-exempt organizations are prohibited from directly or indirectly participating in, or intervening in, any political campaign on behalf of (or in opposition to) any candidate for federal, state or local public office. ( Reg. § 1.501(c)(3)-1(c)(3)(iii) ) Violation of this prohibition may result in denial or revocation of tax-exempt status and imposition of excise taxes. 

Political campaign intervention explained. In Rev Rul 2007-41 , IRS provides 21 examples to illustrate when a Code Sec. 501(c)(3) organization participated or intervened in a political campaign on behalf of (or in opposition to) any candidate for public office under Code Sec. 501(c)(3) . This articles explains the rules, as discussed in the revenue ruling, that the examples illustrate. 

Voter education, voter registration and get out the vote drives. Code Sec. 501(c)(3) organizations may conduct certain voter education activities (including the presentation of public forums and the publication of voter education guides) if they are carried out in a non-partisan manner. They may encourage people to participate in the electoral process through voter registration and get-out-the-vote drives, conducted in a non-partisan manner. But voter education or registration activities conducted in a biased manner that favors (or opposes) one or more candidates is prohibited. 

Individual activity by organization leaders. The bar on political campaign intervention isn't intended to restrict free expression on political matters by leaders of organizations speaking for themselves, as individuals. Leaders aren't prohibited from speaking about important issues of public policy. But, for their organizations to remain tax exempt, leaders cannot make partisan comments in official organization publications or at official functions of the organization. 

Candidate appearances. An organization may invite political candidates (in their capacity as candidates or in their individual capacity) to speak at its events. Candidates may also appear without an invitation at organization events. When a candidate is invited to speak as a political candidate, factors in determining if there is political campaign intervention by the tax-exempt organization include whether: (1) it provides an equal opportunity to other political candidates seeking the same office; (2) it doesn't indicate any support for or opposition to the candidate (including when he is introduced and in communications concerning his attendance); and (3) any political fund-raising occurs. In determining whether candidates are given an equal opportunity to participate, a tax-exempt should consider the nature of the event to which each candidate is invited (e.g., not inviting one candidate to a well attended annual banquet, and another to a sparsely attended general meeting), as well as the manner of presentation. 

When an organization invites several candidates for the same office to speak at a forum, it should consider whether: (1) questions for the candidates are prepared and presented by an independent nonpartisan panel; (2) the topics discussed by the candidates cover a broad range of issues that they would address if elected to the office sought and are of interest to the public; (3) each candidate is given an equal opportunity to present his view on the issues discussed; (4) the candidates are asked to agree or disagree with the organization's positions, agendas, platforms or statements, and (5) a moderator comments on the questions or otherwise implies approval or disapproval of the candidates. 

Candidate appearances where speaking or participating as a non-candidate. Candidates may also appear or speak at organization events in a non-candidate capacity. For example, a political candidate may be a public figure who is invited to speak because he or she: (a) currently holds, or formerly held, public office; (b) is considered an expert in a non-political field; or (c) is a celebrity or has led a distinguished military, legal, or public service career. The candidate's presence does not, by itself, cause the organization to be engaged in political campaign intervention. But, a number of factors must be assessed to determine if the candidate's appearance results in political campaign intervention. 

Issue advocacy vs. political campaign intervention. A tax-exempt may take positions on public policy issues, including issues that divide candidates in an election. But a statement by a tax-exempt is at risk of violating the political campaign prohibition if there is any message favoring or opposing a candidate, even it doesn't expressly tell an audience to vote for or against a candidate. A statement can identify a candidate not only by his name but by showing his picture, referring to his political party, or other distinctive features of his platform or biography. 

Business activity. Whether an activity constitutes participation or intervention in a political campaign may also arise in the context of a business activity of the tax-exempt, including the selling or renting of mailing lists, the leasing of office space, or the acceptance of paid political advertising. 

Web sites. A web site is a form of communication, and if a tax-exempt posts something on its web site that favors or opposes a candidate for public office, it will be treated as if it distributed printed material, oral statements or broadcasts that favored or opposed a candidate. Links to candidate-related material, by themselves, do not necessarily constitute political campaign intervention. All facts and circumstances must be taken into account to assess whether a link produces that result. 

References: For the bar on participating in political campaigns by exempt organizations, see FTC 2d/FIN ¶ D-6414 ; United States Tax Reporter ¶ 5014.12 ; TaxDesk ¶ 677,001 ; TG ¶ 20680 .


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## foxtail (Dec 13, 2007)

Squirrelhntr91 said:


> Easy there other state residents. Looks to me like you guys haven't a clue what is going on here in NY and you definitely cannot say a damn thing about it. Do you guys even know who this guy Grannis is? He's a real scumbag.


I stand by whay I said.
Does not matter if I live in NY or not.

Living in NY does not mean you have the market cornered in evil politician recognition.
It does mean you have much experience and examples to demonstrate.


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## Squirrelhntr91 (Nov 5, 2006)

I agree we have strength in numbers but what was posted above about Grannis isn't the entire 4-1-1 on the guy. He's been given awards by HSUS and voted numerous times against outdoorsmen and now all the sudden because Spitzer says so, he's the right guy for the job? PUH-LEESE! It's another attempt at trying to limit sportsmens rights in this state.


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## SteveB (Dec 18, 2003)

> The law states that a 501c3 Corp cannot endorse nor oppose any individual running in a public election


Does not matter to NYB - they are not a 501c3 anyway - as claimed by the now ex president. They are non-profit, but are not a 501c3.

Steve


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