# Is IBO considering a new Stabilizer rule for hunter class?



## Hopperton (Oct 30, 2005)

Heard at the ATA that IBO may be changing the Hunter Class Stabilizer rule to actually have a diametewr limit also? Is this true has anyone else heard this?


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## ohiobullseye (Feb 6, 2011)

This is a first I heard of this, probably for all of the dish and B Stinger haters. I hope this isn't true


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## Hopperton (Oct 30, 2005)

That is was I was thinking.


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## Hoosier bowman (Jan 10, 2010)

Won't change anything. Good shooters will still win. However, I think that would be a BS rule.


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## sawtoothscream (Apr 19, 2008)

i hope not. would be BS for sure


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## -BIS- (Mar 24, 2009)

I spoke with Mr. Watkins at the ATA show last week, and he said there will be a stabilizer rule change. He was not sure if it would go into effect in 2012, but for sure for 2013. He said that the stabilizer must fit into a 2" tube (which would make most dish style stabilizers illegal to use).


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## WDMJR3DBOWGUY (Dec 2, 2003)

This makes a lot of sense. Next will be arrow diameter in the class. Get over yourselves ibo.


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## ohiobullseye (Feb 6, 2011)

I don't shoot the hunter class, but I don't see what the purpose of an 2" diameter rule for the HC. I agree that if this passes next will be the arrow diameter size and then fletching. Will this include advance hunter class too?


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## bowhunterhaus1 (Oct 16, 2009)

If you can use it hunting you should be allowed to use it in hunter class. I use a b stinger hunting. I could see arrow diameter before that.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk


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## rock77 (Apr 7, 2007)

It doesn't surprise me I would imagine this would be put into effect because of all the variations of stabs out there with sort of side bars and such.
May just be a rule to put more of a standard to follow and less controversy. JM2C


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## WDMJR3DBOWGUY (Dec 2, 2003)

bowhunterhaus1 said:


> If you can use it hunting you should be allowed to use it in hunter class. I use a b stinger hunting. I could see arrow diameter before that.
> 
> Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk


How can you not use them hunting?


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## colo_dually (Oct 11, 2011)

I would have thought they would institute a arrow diameter rule (seeing some of the fat arrows that folks use, for the purpose of improving score, that they would never use in the field), before hitting up Stabs.

I can understand the rule in an effort to restrict the stabilizers, as a matter of keeping hunter class from turning into target. (Some of these stabs put the same amount of force on the bow, as a true target stab would).


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## bowhunterhaus1 (Oct 16, 2009)

WDMJR3DBOWGUY said:


> How can you not use them hunting?


I didn't mean you couldn't I personally don't know anyone that is hunting with 2712 or xj 27 do you

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## eggysvt (Jan 1, 2011)

hope not or ill have an $80 paper towel holder


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## Deer Slayer I (Feb 21, 2010)

colo_dually said:


> as a matter of keeping hunter class from turning into target. .



isnt it just a target class already???????


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## Harperman (Sep 3, 2006)

Deer Slayer I said:


> isnt it just a target class already???????


Yep......Thats what I was thinking....Harperman


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## sawtoothscream (Apr 19, 2008)

hmmm. dont think this will site well with many. alot of good stabilizers wont be allowed.


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## johnh1720 (Apr 10, 2009)

Interesting. I saw this coming and had a stab design in place already lol.


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## ShootingEdgeTec (Jan 20, 2011)

-BIS- said:


> I spoke with Mr. Watkins at the ATA show last week, and he said there will be a stabilizer rule change. He was not sure if it would go into effect in 2012, but for sure for 2013. He said that the stabilizer must fit into a 2" tube (which would make most dish style stabilizers illegal to use).


Think maybe this is why B-stinger has made their NEW stabilizers this year? :wink:


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## ShootingEdgeTec (Jan 20, 2011)

colo_dually said:


> I would have thought they would institute a arrow diameter rule (seeing some of the fat arrows that folks use, for the purpose of improving score, that they would never use in the field), before hitting up Stabs.
> 
> I can understand the rule in an effort to restrict the stabilizers, as a matter of keeping hunter class from turning into target. (Some of these stabs put the same amount of force on the bow, as a true target stab would).



I see the arrow diameter rule coming soon as well.......People are going to complain no matter what though!


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## C.Callison (Jun 20, 2006)

I don't understand why new rules are made for just one class. It seems like the rules that are in place now would be enforced before making new ones. Like the rule about busting of groups. The hunter class was a good idea when it was started. But now these guys have mastered shooting and judging from 35 and in. It is the most competative class even more competative than the PRO classes. Your average hunter dosen't stand a chance in that class. I would say most Open class guys can't shoot those scores that are put up in the Hunter class. I think the guys that shoot well in the HC work for it and no matter if you think someone is a so-called sandbagger or not. They have learned to use the game to their advantage and to master it. I think putting new rules on them is like putting restricture plates on a race car.


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## dw'struth (Mar 14, 2008)

bowhunterhaus1 said:


> I didn't mean you couldn't I personally don't know anyone that is hunting with 2712 or xj 27 do you
> 
> Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk


I know 2 or 3 that hunt with Fatboy arrows, but no 27's


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## ShootingEdgeTec (Jan 20, 2011)

dw'struth said:


> I know 2 or 3 that hunt with Fatboy arrows, but no 27's


why would anyone hunt with a fat shaft of any kind? Fatter arrows have less penetration, guaranteed! Which is why all the arrow companies came out with the thinnest hunting shafts they could make (ie, Kinetics, HT-1s, etc)


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## deer down (Feb 23, 2007)

i would have to say i would agree with the rule if it was about the dish stabilizer. put a 4 or 5 inch dish on the end and then weight the outside of the dish isn't any different than an offset stabizer imho. if you want to shoot that kind of stab set up then you should shoot ten more yds and shoot any stab set up your heart desires.as far as a b stinger, which i shoot, the end weight being uniform in weight distribution so as to not offset the weight is fine with me regardless of diameter


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## dw'struth (Mar 14, 2008)

ShootingEdgeTec said:


> why would anyone hunt with a fat shaft of any kind? Fatter arrows have less penetration, guaranteed! Which is why all the arrow companies came out with the thinnest hunting shafts they could make (ie, Kinetics, HT-1s, etc)


I don't know why, I just know that they do. I don't know about that penetration thing anyway. A 3-blade fixed head cuts a hole way bigger than any shaft.


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## colo_dually (Oct 11, 2011)

ShootingEdgeTec said:


> why would anyone hunt with a fat shaft of any kind? Fatter arrows have less penetration, guaranteed! Which is why all the arrow companies came out with the thinnest hunting shafts they could make (ie, Kinetics, HT-1s, etc)





dw'struth said:


> I don't know why, I just know that they do. I don't know about that penetration thing anyway. A 3-blade fixed head cuts a hole way bigger than any shaft.


The shaft of a smaller diameter has considerably less surface area dragging through the target, therefore getting more penetration. The whole cut with the broadhead does not create that level of drag. The thinner shafts have two benefits, first less resistance through air and wind, second higher penetration in target. Only reason to shoot a fat shafted aluminum arrow (of equal gpi to the hunting shaft), or fat carbon, is to get the advantage of cutting the plane of the next higher score on a target. In a true hunting situation, the advantage is in the thinner shafts.


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## Hopperton (Oct 30, 2005)

I have larger stab weights and I shoot X Ringers, but I wouldn’t mind the rule changes. I would just get a new stabilizer or weights and then go down to the V Force arrows. 

I think a few more rules in Hunter Class to make it less of a target class would be fine and maybe get more hunters in since they know the "target bows" will now be limited. I think the hunter class rules should carry over to advanced as well. If someone wants to shoot more target setup they can go to MBR.


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## WDMJR3DBOWGUY (Dec 2, 2003)

bowhunterhaus1 said:


> I didn't mean you couldn't I personally don't know anyone that is hunting with 2712 or xj 27 do you
> 
> Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk


I misunderstood your post, thought you were referring to stabilizers not arrows.


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## WDMJR3DBOWGUY (Dec 2, 2003)

What's next, no target colored bows in hunter class? At the end of the day it's not hunting, it's target shooting. Maybe they should change the speed rule to, because not many hunt with a 5grain per pound arrow either.


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## Hopperton (Oct 30, 2005)

WDMJR3DBOWGUY said:


> What's next, no target colored bows in hunter class? At the end of the day it's not hunting, it's target shooting. Maybe they should change the speed rule to, because not many hunt with a 5grain per pound arrow either.


You are right on that one.


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## Easton xxxx (Jan 6, 2006)

They may make the rule, but they don't stick to them anyway. You should have seen all the people in hunter class at Bedford last year shooting v-bars.


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## maufenkamp (Dec 21, 2011)

I can kinda see their point.


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## Hopperton (Oct 30, 2005)

If seen rule breakers doing it in front of me I would call them out. If someone sees it and doesn't say anything they, they can't really complain. It is up to the other shooters to help uphold the rules. Judges can not be everywhere.


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## Easton xxxx (Jan 6, 2006)

Are you really going to pay the protest fee?


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

ShootingEdgeTec said:


> why would anyone hunt with a fat shaft of any kind? Fatter arrows have less penetration, guaranteed! Which is why all the arrow companies came out with the thinnest hunting shafts they could make (ie, Kinetics, HT-1s, etc)





colo_dually said:


> The shaft of a smaller diameter has considerably less surface area dragging through the target, therefore getting more penetration. The whole cut with the broadhead does not create that level of drag. The thinner shafts have two benefits, first less resistance through air and wind, second higher penetration in target. Only reason to shoot a fat shafted aluminum arrow (of equal gpi to the hunting shaft), or fat carbon, is to get the advantage of cutting the plane of the next higher score on a target. In a true hunting situation, the advantage is in the thinner shafts.


Thin shafts definitely penetrate better into foam without a doubt. Foam stops an arrow by friction and the smaller diameter shaft has less surface area than a fatter shaft. The texture of the surface area of the shaft also impacts how far a shaft penetrates foam. A lubricated arrow penetrates measurably further into foam than the same arrow dry. 

Within reason the actual diameter of a shaft passing through muscle behind a broadhead has little to do with how far that arrow penetrates. Blood and other fluids act as a lubricant and the broadhead is clearing a path of much greater diameter than any hunting shaft I've ever seen. The fletching on a shaft does much, much more to slow an arrow passing through an animal than the shaft diameter does. Hide and muscles are taunt and when a broadhead slices them they open up to the point that the shaft may not even touch the tissue. Lungs and liver are soft super slippery when cut. The only time the shaft diameter comes into play to stop or slow an arrow is when a force is applied to the surface area of the shaft. There's nothing on a deer that will "squeeze" a broadhead tipped arrow shot into it.


What really can or does effect arrow penetration on a deer is arrow stiffness (spine), how straight the arrow is flying when it impacts the deer and the flight of the arrow to the target. If there is poor arrow flight due to porpoising or fish tailing the arrow can't penetrate nearly as well as it could due to energy loss. If the arrow flexes upon impact then that energy isn't available to propel the arrow further into the target.

I have taken many deer and turkeys with a 14 or 11 oz. weight disc on my B-Stinger! It is all I've used on my hunting bows for quite a few years and before B-Stinger I had a home made stabber was similar. A diameter restriction on the stabilizer is totally bogus. Should hinge releases be outlawed? Hinges are definitely target releases but I know folks that have killed many deer using a hinge release.

If the IBO wants to improve they need to start with the bogus scoring that is part of the IBO culture. The IBO allows whomever to shoot together. Why is it that where groups are assigned that some high scoring archers scores go into the toilet? It's not always because it's a particularly tough course. At Erie and at World's I had to deal with " that's how they will all be scored today". Luckily, at Erie it was my arrow that I insisted receive the lower score. At World's a fellow in my group refused to accept the higher score for his shot as well and the 2 "scorers" were none too happen about it!! They've stuck their collective heads in the sand on this issue for over 20 years and don't expect a change.


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## dw'struth (Mar 14, 2008)

Kstigall said:


> Thin shafts definitely penetrate better into foam without a doubt. Foam stops an arrow by friction and the smaller diameter shaft has less surface area than a fatter shaft. The texture of the surface area of the shaft also impacts how far a shaft penetrates foam. A lubricated arrow penetrates measurably further into foam than the same arrow dry.
> 
> Within reason the actual diameter of a shaft passing through muscle behind a broadhead has little to do with how far that arrow penetrates. Blood and other fluids act as a lubricant and the broadhead is clearing a path of much greater diameter than any hunting shaft I've ever seen. The fletching on a shaft does much, much more to slow an arrow passing through an animal than the shaft diameter does. Hide and muscles are taunt and when a broadhead slices them they open up to the point that the shaft may not even touch the tissue. Lungs and liver are soft super slippery when cut. The only time the shaft diameter comes into play to stop or slow an arrow is when a force is applied to the surface area of the shaft. There's nothing on a deer that will "squeeze" a broadhead tipped arrow shot into it.
> 
> ...


Thank you!! Not to mention the fact that small diameter arrows are usually heavier than your average Beman ICS, and other similar arrows. Some just buy into anything they hear wtihouth actually thinking about it.


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## markb317 (Nov 18, 2009)

This is just a pins class for target shooters is has nothing to do with being a "Hunter",.people complain about rules and being fair...We don't go to 3-D shoots at a National level to hunt targets we go to a competition to see who's the best in that class on the given weekend.If people what a "hunters class" then they should have their clubs set treestands on most of their targets to shoot from, because 90% of the hunters hunt from them not from the ground!!!


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## bawls (Jan 29, 2011)

Can I stick the ends of my vendetta into the tube? Lol. That is my hunting stab.


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## jfuller17 (Jan 28, 2007)

bawls you are exactly right. I have a least half of the bars I sold this year are being used while hunting. We are also going to be introducing camo soon for this same reason. Granted I am sure I am one of the bars thats being questioned, but I just dont get it. EVERYTHING in the world advances over time. Archery equipment is no different. Knowledge and materials are allowing us to make better equipment. I could understand banning them if not everyone could buy one. But they are all over not just mine but many others as well that can be bought by anyone. IBO just dosent make sense to me half the time. ASA has Zero problems with hunting classes and even allows a side bar. As someone mentioned above 3-D is a target competition. Most true hunters dont care about the trophy but are doing it for practice for hunting season. I would also agree that with the better equipment and such the hunting class of 35 yard max is a little easy for most target guys. I mean lets face it, most shooting that class are target guys. I also dont understand how for the last year and maybe even this next year you will allow them and then all of the sudden people will have to buy new bars. Way to make people buy more product to compete in there shoots. Either way it will be what it will and most local shoots have there own rules anyway so IBO will single themselves out. I know alot of people may jump me cause I feel this way due to the fact that I build the Enforcer "t" style head, but I still wanted to say this. We built the bars to the current IBO rules. Its one bar.....no additional bars or weights. Thats the same reason the SS1 and the Tactical will be allowed as well. Yes they are offset, but as Ken told me they are ONE bar. I really hate to see IBO do this. 

Jason


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## Wes_C7 (Feb 24, 2010)

markb317 said:


> This is just a pins class for target shooters is has nothing to do with being a "Hunter",.people complain about rules and being fair...We don't go to 3-D shoots at a National level to hunt targets we go to a competition to see who's the best in that class on the given weekend.If people what a "hunters class" then they should have their clubs set treestands on most of their targets to shoot from, because 90% of the hunters hunt from them not from the ground!!!


Exactly..I don't travel all over the eastern part of the US to shoot these tournaments just to make myself a better hunter. I do it because it's a 3D ARCHERY TOURNAMENT, and I'm trying to win the dang thing. They need to leave the rules alone, and until they change them I'm going to keep shooting my B Stinger, AAE Pro Blade, and Fatboy arrows in the hunter class. What's next..camo bows only?


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## jfuller17 (Jan 28, 2007)

Also I am one of the people that also use a hinge release to hunt.......thanks to target shooting I can use one and be comfortable. They kinda go hand and hand


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## MentalMisfit (Nov 15, 2011)

I'll be using the same bow for Hunterclass and for hunting. Even plan on using my Goldtip ultralight 22's to hunt with just going to throw a 85gr broadhead on them instead of my 75gr target point. Bow has a 12" B stinger on it as well.


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## bawls (Jan 29, 2011)

Well, if they start making me use a whisker biscuit I guess I'm covered there lol. 2012 ibo rules ftw... Camo bow, minimum 380gr arrow, no decent stabs, whisker biscuit, quiver attached to the bow, all targets will move and stop at random. You can use a range finder, but there will be someone down range watching for excessive movement. you must be dressed in full camo with your face painted, and any human scent detected will be an automatic disqualification!


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## cbrunson (Oct 25, 2010)

I just put a b-stinger on mine and I will NOT be packing that thing around the trees. It would look good hanging in your tree but if you had to carry it all day, you might change your mind. I like the stabilizer a lot for shooting though. It really helps hold on target.


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## golfingguy27 (Oct 15, 2008)

cbrunson said:


> I just put a b-stinger on mine and I will NOT be packing that thing around the trees. It would look good hanging in your tree but if you had to carry it all day, you might change your mind. I like the stabilizer a lot for shooting though. It really helps hold on target.


I hunt from a ground blind, and do decide to take a lot of walks when I haven't seen anything in a while (carrying my bow along with me of course). I have hunted with nothing but my 12" Smooth Stability stab with 14 ounces of 5" discs on the front. Wouldn't hunt with anything else!


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## Marine96 (Jul 16, 2010)

The IBO as an organization needs a complete overhaul of classes,rules and regs.


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## Hopperton (Oct 30, 2005)

Maybe they are considering these rules to try and draw more hunters into the sport that don't want to be competing against a guy only concerned with target. They are a big organization and I have to believe there is a reason.


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## Wes_C7 (Feb 24, 2010)

bawls said:


> Well, if they start making me use a whisker biscuit I guess I'm covered there lol. 2012 ibo rules ftw... Camo bow, minimum 380gr arrow, no decent stabs, whisker biscuit, quiver attached to the bow, all targets will move and stop at random. You can use a range finder, but there will be someone down range watching for excessive movement. you must be dressed in full camo with your face painted, and any human scent detected will be an automatic disqualification!


Yep, and no shooter chairs. If you want to sit down you must sit on the ground with back against a tree. Also trigger releases only (wrist strap)


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## Marine96 (Jul 16, 2010)

I dont doubt there is a reason for the change, I just dont believe the reason that will be given for the change.


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## NYS REP (Dec 21, 2003)

Believe it or not-we are trying to write a rule that the average joe can take and measure their stabilizers and understand what it needs to fit into to be legal. After approximately 3 hours it was decided that if your stabilizer were to fit into a cylinder and be twelve inches or less from point of attachment it would be legal in* 2013.* Now until then it is as written in the rule book. We will arrive at the diameter of the cylinder at the fall board meeting in August *for 2013.* So for 2012 shooting calender no change should be expected. We are actually trying to create some sort of template so every club or shooter could have that would make this very easy to understand. As anybody that shoots this class or knows someone that does, measuring and understanding what is considered attachments, counterweights, vibration, etc, etc, etc, it never ends.


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## jfuller17 (Jan 28, 2007)

NYS REP said:


> Believe it or not-we are trying to write a rule that the average joe can take and measure their stabilizers and understand what it needs to fit into to be legal. After approximately 3 hours it was decided that if your stabilizer were to fit into a cylinder and be twelve inches or less from point of attachment it would be legal in* 2013.* Now until then it is as written in the rule book. We will arrive at the diameter of the cylinder at the fall board meeting in August *for 2013.* So for 2012 shooting calender no change should be expected.


 What will that mean for the ones that don't? Another class up? And if so what would that be?


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## Hopperton (Oct 30, 2005)

NYS REP said:


> Believe it or not-we are trying to write a rule that the average joe can take and measure their stabilizers and understand what it needs to fit into to be legal. After approximately 3 hours it was decided that if your stabilizer were to fit into a cylinder and be twelve inches or less from point of attachment it would be legal in* 2013.* Now until then it is as written in the rule book. We will arrive at the diameter of the cylinder at the fall board meeting in August *for 2013.* So for 2012 shooting calender no change should be expected. We are actually trying to create some sort of template so every club or shooter could have that would make this very easy to understand. As anybody that shoots this class or knows someone that does, measuring and understanding what is considered attachments, counterweights, vibration, etc, etc, etc, it never ends.


Sounds fair enough.

Only gripe I would have is that it would be nice to know sooner then later about such a big change (possibly big). What would the diameter be or close so we can start practicing with the proper equipment as soon as possible and the manufacturers can get a head start. I personally like rule changes, keeps people on there toes.


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## johnh1720 (Apr 10, 2009)

I talked to IBO president Ken Watkins today and this is what he told me. For 2012 everything will stay the same as far as stabilizers. Starting in 2013 hunter class stabilizers must fit in a 2" diameter tube or they will not be allowed. This new rule does not affect advanced hunter class. He said one of the reasons was to make this class what it is an introductory class.


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## Hopperton (Oct 30, 2005)

johnh1720 said:


> I talked to IBO president Ken Watkins today and this is what he told me. For 2012 everything will stay the same as far as stabilizers. Starting in 2013 hunter class stabilizers must fit in a 2" diameter tube or they will not be allowed. This new rule does not affect advanced hunter class. He said one of the reasons was to make this class what it is an introductory class.


That is what I figured and posted somewhere on here....


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## johnh1720 (Apr 10, 2009)

Ya Erik he said guys that are shooting 22 and 26 up should be in another class lol.


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## Hopperton (Oct 30, 2005)

johnh1720 said:


> Ya Erik he said guys that are shooting 22 and 26 up should be in another class lol.


hey hey now.... I shot a 424 at Indoor worlds last year, I am not bumping up till I do that at two or three big shoots.


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## Justin22 (Oct 7, 2007)

NYS REP said:


> Believe it or not-we are trying to write a rule that the average joe can take and measure their stabilizers and understand what it needs to fit into to be legal. After approximately 3 hours it was decided that if your stabilizer were to fit into a cylinder and be twelve inches or less from point of attachment it would be legal in* 2013.* Now until then it is as written in the rule book. We will arrive at the diameter of the cylinder at the fall board meeting in August *for 2013.* So for 2012 shooting calender no change should be expected. We are actually trying to create some sort of template so every club or shooter could have that would make this very easy to understand. As anybody that shoots this class or knows someone that does, measuring and understanding what is considered attachments, counterweights, vibration, etc, etc, etc, it never ends.


Its already clearly been written into the current rules for the ibo hunter class no stabilizers longer than 12" from were it connects to the bow.....what the hell does the diameter have to do with anything. If you are shooting this class and don't understand what it takes to be legal then maybe ibo should hold there hands while they shoot too. You guys are getting as bad as the politictians in Washington


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## johnh1720 (Apr 10, 2009)

Justin22 said:


> Its already clearly been written into the current rules for the ibo hunter class no stabilizers longer than 12" from were it connects to the bow.....what the hell does the diameter have to do with anything. If you are shooting this class and don't understand what it takes to be legal then maybe ibo should hold there hands while they shoot too. You guys are getting as bad as the politictians in Washington


They are changing the rules eliminating the t head stabilizers and dish type stabilizers from this class. They want to make it more of a hunter type class lol. I know alot of guys that use these types of stabilizers to hunt.


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## johnh1720 (Apr 10, 2009)

Hopperton said:


> hey hey now.... I shot a 424 at Indoor worlds last year, I am not bumping up till I do that at two or three big shoots.


Better check they might have bumped you up lol. he told me they bumped another 18 or so guys.


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## jfuller17 (Jan 28, 2007)

Justin22 said:


> Its already clearly been written into the current rules for the ibo hunter class no stabilizers longer than 12" from were it connects to the bow.....what the hell does the diameter have to do with anything. If you are shooting this class and don't understand what it takes to be legal then maybe ibo should hold there hands while they shoot too. You guys are getting as bad as the politictians in Washington


Yeah kinda my thought as well. Is this really going to change anything in that class? Not really. I already have a sweet bar figured up that would still fit that template.  I guess its their decision but in my opinion its going to hurt them more then help. They are trying to have to many classes and to many rules. ALOT of guys hunt with this same equipment. Very few bars will fit through a 2" tube these days. Heck I even measured the cheap fuse blade made of all rubber that you can but for about 30 bucks and it wont even go in a 2" tube. LOL


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## Grnmtn (Feb 1, 2003)

I think they will have to take a closer look at the majority of stablizer being used in the class before a big move is made. A look and perhaps a on site pole to really have some documentation be do at the nationals.


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## archerdad (Oct 17, 2002)

i don't understand why the diameter would really affect someones shooting, length yeah.... :doh:


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## johnh1720 (Apr 10, 2009)

Grnmtn said:


> I think they will have to take a closer look at the majority of stablizer being used in the class before a big move is made. A look and perhaps a on site pole to really have some documentation be do at the nationals.


According to Ken Watkins the board has already approved the decision for 2013.


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## bawls (Jan 29, 2011)

Most ridiculous thing I've heard so far this year.


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## S.Wells (Oct 30, 2010)

For me I actually like the rule change. Too many good archers shooting the hunter class. 1/2 of these guys should be shooting MBR the other half AHC. Hunter class should really be named Novice class. I think so many shoot hunter because they want to say they shot up, or they just can't judge yardage lol. I think they just want to spread some of the shooters out.


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## MentalMisfit (Nov 15, 2011)

Glad I work in a machine shop I'll just grind my be stinger down to fit in a 2" tube and then weld the material on the backside to get it back to 8oz  It's only a little over 2"s now. that or I'll just order one of the new 2012 style heads they look like a smaller diameter.


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## bawls (Jan 29, 2011)

If you can't judge yardage you are handicapped and should be shooting in the novice class. Here is a question for you. If a person has great natural ability but has never shot in a sanctioned 3d shoot, where do propose they start? By your logic anyone who doesn't suck should be in a class other than hunter. The stabilizer doesn't make any difference at the distances that you would be shooting in hunter. I can take mine off and stack arrows at 40 yds all day long. I also don't plan on shooting in the beginner class during my first year in ibo though. The guys that they are trying to keep out are going to shoot just as well with a small stab. Man am I glad that I started out in San Diego where we have real 3d courses lol. This whole max yardage thing is going to be a hoot. I can't even tell you how many times I walked up to a 60 yd coyote or a 50yd raccoon lol. Btw. Everyone but the kids shoot the same distance out there.


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## rock77 (Apr 7, 2007)

Hey here is an idea just back up 5 yrds. Problem solved!!!!!!!


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## Marine96 (Jul 16, 2010)

I still stand by my statement that the IBO needs and overhaul. Reality is the more restrictions and sub classes formed will only serve to frustate shooters and competiton officals more. 

Can someone please define what type of equpiment is consider a Novice Class set up and what skill level that shooter must be at in order to compete in that class?


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## voodoofire1 (Jan 24, 2006)

I am a bow hunter, and have been a bow hunter for the better part of the last 50 years, I'm not much of a competitor as I watched my father practice for field archery till it bored me to tears, and it left a real bad taste in my mouth for a long time...so my primary focus is and has always been hunting with a bow...... now I don't usually hunt from a stand, although I have a time or two, I like it up close and personal, I have always searched for a good way to place my bow while waiting for that shot opportunity, and have made all kinds of stands, and stab adapters that would allow me to keep my bow, with an arrow nocked in the almost ready position, some worked good , some didn't, but I found them to be a great asset when hunting, no longer would my bow lay in the noisy grass, or in sloppy mud or snow, things like this seem to have a little safety factor too, no mud or sticksin the cams are a good thing!....Well I'm inquiring to purchase a venetta stab off the classifieds in order to have a bit classier way of not only stabilization but as kind of a kick stand too, well it's just my humble opinion, but it seems that we have way too many stupid rules already, and this diameter thing would just be another one of them, what makes the difference anyway?....Does it really matter?...... do you have too many members shooting IBO or something? because it seems to me that stupid rules limit participation....now I can understand a length rule, but not diameter, because in a real hunting situation it has proven to me that it can make hunting with a bow a tad bit safer, but hey if your against being safe......guess everyone has to be something......


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## Deer Slayer I (Feb 21, 2010)

bawls said:


> If a person has great natural ability but has never shot in a sanctioned 3d shoot, where do propose they start? By your logic anyone who doesn't suck should be in a class other than hunter.


problem is they win and never leave!


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## colo_dually (Oct 11, 2011)

Curious, why should someone who is winning and performing well in a particular class need to leave it?


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## Hopperton (Oct 30, 2005)

colo_dually said:


> Curious, why should someone who is winning and performing well in a particular class need to leave it?


Hunter class is the only class with this. If the same ten people were always in the top and not going anywhere jsut to claim trophies a lot of people would probably quit shooting.


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## Hopperton (Oct 30, 2005)

I feel bad I started this thread, I dont get into all the bashing and down talk.

Lesson learned.


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## LCA (Apr 20, 2009)

I wish the ASA would come up north, the IBO needs to learn from them about how to run a shoot. Way to many rules about what people think is hunted with...... you wont allow women to pull more than 60 pounds or men to pull over 80....

What is next??? Make me shoot with a 350 grain or more arrow wieght?? no fat shafts?? not allow back tension or hinge release??? no chairs or belt quivers??? Here is a idea...... IBO assign shooting groups so the pencil pushing is eliminated.... how about that???? that is the worst problem you have.


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## Hopperton (Oct 30, 2005)

Next year I am going to AHC and then I will not have to worry.


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## colo_dually (Oct 11, 2011)

Hopperton said:


> Hunter class is the only class with this. If the same ten people were always in the top and not going anywhere jsut to claim trophies a lot of people would probably quit shooting.


Why would you quit shooting, just because the same folks win match after match. If you feel they're taking advantage of scoring, or in violation of the rules that's one thing that should be challenged on the field. If the same ten folks win, because of their skills, you have too options get better, or quit yourself. Don't see how the right answer is to have the folks winning go to another class.

NOTE: I don't see hunter as an entry level only class, if that is the case I misunderstand the format entirely.


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## Hopperton (Oct 30, 2005)

To each there own.


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## chromes-z7 (Dec 18, 2010)

i use a side bar to hunt!!! this is stupid people should use whatever they want to use


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## chromes-z7 (Dec 18, 2010)

Hopperton said:


> Next year I am going to AHC and then I will not have to worry.


can you use side bars and 30" stabilizers in AHC??


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## NY911 (Dec 12, 2004)

chromes-z7 said:


> i use a side bar to hunt!!! this is stupid people should use whatever they want to use


TRUE...as do I, along with a 19 inch front stabilizer...BUT..the majority of bowhunters dont.


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## chromes-z7 (Dec 18, 2010)

i'm not at an IBO shoot to hunt foam... i'm there to score as best i can with whatever equipment i can use... just sayin


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## chromes-z7 (Dec 18, 2010)

pretty sure levi morgan is not going to use a stabilizer less than 13 inches mounted from his bow


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## NY911 (Dec 12, 2004)

You are preaching to the choir...I agree totally!


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## chromes-z7 (Dec 18, 2010)

they are going to lose allot of members.... Hey Ny911, do you have any idea if you can use a side bar and long stabilizers in the advanced hunters class?


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## Hopperton (Oct 30, 2005)

chromes-z7 said:


> can you use side bars and 30" stabilizers in AHC??


No but I wont have to deal with all the BS of hunter class and hear about the complaints. AHC is as set up and you need to shoot better so I think it would be more fun.


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## Hopperton (Oct 30, 2005)

chromes-z7 said:


> they are going to lose allot of members.... Hey Ny911, do you have any idea if you can use a side bar and long stabilizers in the advanced hunters class?


Same current rules as Hunter Class but five more yards on the distance. If you want to use longer bars you need to head up to MBR and 45 yards.


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## voodoofire1 (Jan 24, 2006)

I thought about this rule and my post very hard, I then contacted the fella and told him I would pass on the stab due to the rule change.......and that just ate at me too...... so I said screw it,and bought the stab..... IBO don't do my hunting, they don't walk in my shoes, they are just an organization that I can choose NOT to be a part of, see I don't do stupid very well, and try not to surround myself with those that do...... much more important things to consider than the size of a man's Stabilizer........


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## jfuller17 (Jan 28, 2007)

LCA said:


> I wish the ASA would come up north, the IBO needs to learn from them about how to run a shoot. Way to many rules about what people think is hunted with...... you wont allow women to pull more than 60 pounds or men to pull over 80....
> 
> What is next??? Make me shoot with a 350 grain or more arrow wieght?? no fat shafts?? not allow back tension or hinge release??? no chairs or belt quivers??? Here is a idea...... IBO assign shooting groups so the pencil pushing is eliminated.... how about that???? that is the worst problem you have.



Amen!!!


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## jfuller17 (Jan 28, 2007)

voodoofire1 said:


> I thought about this rule and my post very hard, I then contacted the fella and told him I would pass on the stab due to the rule change.......and that just ate at me too...... so I said screw it,and bought the stab..... IBO don't do my hunting, they don't walk in my shoes, they are just an organization that I can choose NOT to be a part of, see I don't do stupid very well, and try not to surround myself with those that do...... much more important things to consider than the size of a man's Stabilizer........


Congrats on the stab......if you need anything please let me know. Welcome to the vendetta family


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## chromes-z7 (Dec 18, 2010)

ok sorry for being a rookie but what does the class MBR mean? and was it the white numbered targets at the world shoot?


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## gooseman07 (Aug 21, 2010)

My thoughts on this whole thing... If the IBO is trying to draw more 'hunters' to the class, they need to lower the entry fees into a major shoot. I'm pretty sure that all of my buddies who hunt with a bow so whole-heartedly, more than me, will NEVER pay $70.00 to enter a shoot they had to qualify for by paying $35 or $40 before hand. Even local shoots at $10-15 a pop starts to hurt after a while if you're going every or every other weekend but that's nothing to do with the IBO. 

This past year was my first year of competitive shooting and I had a 12" B Stinger on with a 3 1/4" weight on the end. I placed right in the middle of the pack of the hunter class at Worlds. I know that my weight helped, but it sure didn't put me in the top 10 in my first year of target shooting. I've hunted with this stabilizer since I bought it and do not intend on taking it off. Maybe this would be a good year to just keep my $105 in entry fees and $25 in membership fees especially since I have a child on the way. I had a great time last year, but like many have said, this is getting more ridiculous than it already was.


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

Come on over to the ASA......They don't care if you have some weigh at the end of your stab....just as long its not over 12 in..... And we all know the 288 fps. ...is a lame excuse.......ASA.....the best there is


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## Deer Slayer I (Feb 21, 2010)

colo_dually said:


> Curious, why should someone who is winning and performing well in a particular class need to leave it?


because when hunter class was introduced to bring new people into the sport of 3d and let them advance <sorry not to be a competative class> 435 hc indoor world sat good shooting but i doubt it was with his hunting rig


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## nochance (Nov 27, 2008)

LCA said:


> I wish the ASA would come up north, the IBO needs to learn from them about how to run a shoot. Way to many rules about what people think is hunted with...... you wont allow women to pull more than 60 pounds or men to pull over 80....
> 
> What is next??? Make me shoot with a 350 grain or more arrow wieght?? no fat shafts?? not allow back tension or hinge release??? no chairs or belt quivers??? Here is a idea...... IBO assign shooting groups so the pencil pushing is eliminated.... how about that???? that is the worst problem you have.


Whats next ??? making people shoot 280 fps  LOL


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## nochance (Nov 27, 2008)

Deer Slayer I said:


> because when hunter class was introduced to bring new people into the sport of 3d and let them advance <sorry not to be a competative class> 435 hc indoor world sat good shooting but i doubt it was with his hunting rig


shot 27 up a few years back...with my hunting rig...one hot day, haven't been close to that ever since.


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## Deer Slayer I (Feb 21, 2010)

nochance said:


> shot 27 up a few years back...with my hunting rig...one hot day, haven't been close to that ever since.


you dont get kicked out for one good score!


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## dwagoner (Sep 27, 2007)

bowhunterhaus1 said:


> If you can use it hunting you should be allowed to use it in hunter class. I use a b stinger hunting. I could see arrow diameter before that.
> 
> Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk


cant agree with this statement any more, if you hunt with it (and people DO hunt with these stabs) then it should be perfectly legal in a "hunter class"


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## rock77 (Apr 7, 2007)

I think the whole problem started in the beginning they should have named it Novice Class back then not Hunter class.
Some of you guys are selling yourself short you can probably shoot the same scores with your dish as you could with your straight stab.


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## Stratcat (Dec 5, 2005)

bawls said:


> Well, if they start making me use a whisker biscuit I guess I'm covered there lol. 2012 ibo rules ftw... Camo bow, minimum 380gr arrow, no decent stabs, whisker biscuit, quiver attached to the bow, all targets will move and stop at random. You can use a range finder, but there will be someone down range watching for excessive movement. you must be dressed in full camo with your face painted, and any human scent detected will be an automatic disqualification!


Sounds like the best rules yet!


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## bawls (Jan 29, 2011)

Lol, glad you enjoyed that.


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## QuickKen (Mar 22, 2009)

Went to the IBO Indoor Worlds and Guy F. asked this question on the stab rule. Yes the rule is on the table for 2013. Stab has to fit in a round tube. I forgot the size dia. of the tube. But your doinker dish would be out. It's on the table, and the IBO board passed it. You need to contact IBO on this topic to stop it, not here. I guess new archers trying IBO in the Hunter Class was asking whats with all these large dia. stabs. Felt like they had to buy the large dia. stabs to compete. IBO wanted to keep the hunter class, hunter class. Again let your voice be heard. The new archers in the hunter class did.


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## QuickKen (Mar 22, 2009)

Suggestion on fixing this stab rule.



Long bow's only. No other classes..
Now how many would shoot IBO?

No Sights, No Stabs, No releases.

Was not too long ago, was it?

Problem with technology and time..


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## bcbow1971 (Oct 24, 2007)

I just called IBO and the lady there said she has not heard anything about that rule..........I want someones name and number besides IBO HQ's that is saying any different so I can call myself.!!!


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## BigGobbler (Feb 11, 2010)

If It ain't broke don't fix it. In this day in age when gas is up and its hard to get more people shooting why keep changing the rules. Yes it is a hunting class(target). The majority use different set ups for the field and if they shoot what they hunt with fine. I say leave it alone. Why don't they spend the time trying to figure out how to get more people involved, more sponsors, higher pay outs. No wonder ASA is booming.


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## bcbow1971 (Oct 24, 2007)

BigGobbler said:


> If It ain't broke don't fix it. In this day in age when gas is up and its hard to get more people shooting why keep changing the rules. Yes it is a hunting class(target). The majority use different set ups for the field and if they shoot what they hunt with fine. I say leave it alone. Why don't they spend the time trying to figure out how to get more people involved, more sponsors, higher pay outs. No wonder ASA is booming.


I agree!!! You can use an adjustable sight as long as you "don't" adjust it on course.....I hunt with my Vendetta T shaped stabilizer and I can show them pictures of that setup!!!!!


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## hoytxcutter (Sep 1, 2003)

I use broadheads while hunting so those should be legal too. This is competitive archery and there has to be rules. One can stay at home and complain or get off the couch and have some fun/


dwagoner said:


> cant agree with this statement any more, if you hunt with it (and people DO hunt with these stabs) then it should be perfectly legal in a "hunter class"


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## johnh1720 (Apr 10, 2009)

For everbody that is concerned about this rule call IBO president Ken Watkins. I spoke with him Jan 17th and he told me this rule will be in effect for 2013.


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## Bowtech n ROSS (Aug 30, 2007)

Its a rule coming for sure. Dont like it step back to ahc.


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## Destroyer (Sep 11, 2009)

I don't see a problem except the $$ spent on the now illegal stab.


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## bcbow1971 (Oct 24, 2007)

Bowtech n ROSS said:


> Its a rule coming for sure. Dont like it step back to ahc.


AHC has same stab rules as HC.....so that will have to be a change as well....


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## wpk (Jan 31, 2009)

bhtr3d said:


> Come on over to the ASA......They don't care if you have some weigh at the end of your stab....just as long its not over 12 in..... And we all know the 288 fps. ...is a lame excuse.......ASA.....the best there is


I went to my first one last year I won't be back to and IBO the ASA is better in every way


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## J Moore (Nov 17, 2011)

jfuller17 said:


> bawls you are exactly right. I have a least half of the bars I sold this year are being used while hunting. We are also going to be introducing camo soon for this same reason. Granted I am sure I am one of the bars thats being questioned, but I just dont get it. EVERYTHING in the world advances over time. Archery equipment is no different. Knowledge and materials are allowing us to make better equipment. I could understand banning them if not everyone could buy one. But they are all over not just mine but many others as well that can be bought by anyone. IBO just dosent make sense to me half the time. ASA has Zero problems with hunting classes and even allows a side bar. As someone mentioned above 3-D is a target competition. Most true hunters dont care about the trophy but are doing it for practice for hunting season. I would also agree that with the better equipment and such the hunting class of 35 yard max is a little easy for most target guys. I mean lets face it, most shooting that class are target guys. I also dont understand how for the last year and maybe even this next year you will allow them and then all of the sudden people will have to buy new bars. Way to make people buy more product to compete in there shoots. Either way it will be what it will and most local shoots have there own rules anyway so IBO will single themselves out. I know alot of people may jump me cause I feel this way due to the fact that I build the Enforcer "t" style head, but I still wanted to say this. We built the bars to the current IBO rules. Its one bar.....no additional bars or weights. Thats the same reason the SS1 and the Tactical will be allowed as well. Yes they are offset, but as Ken told me they are ONE bar. I really hate to see IBO do this.
> 
> Jason


Jason, you're 5th sentence nails it to me. Everything in the world advances over time. People just don't get this.... I use this all the time but people that think nothing should change shoud throw out their microwaves and cook over a campfire.......


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## bustn'nocks (May 11, 2010)

Doinker must have ticked off the IBO people. Makes no sense at all. I hunt with a dish. Should I just use a crappy 4 inch hunk of rubber instead???


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## viper16 (Nov 10, 2011)

It makes sense to me that one would progress from HC>MBR> AHC> MBO would be a natural progression through skill and equipment, going to more target style gear as you hit the more advanced classes. HC is even classified as an entry level adult class.

While yes you can hunt with large and multiple stabilizers, they are by no means typical hunting equipment. The little vibration dampeners, or nothing at all, are far more common than a true stabilizer for hunting purposes.

It would make sense that HC and MBR have the same equipment headlines, and be more restrictive than AHC or MBO.


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## bustn'nocks (May 11, 2010)

The whole thing is making me want to shoot a novice or hunter class this year instead of donating to the Open pots. Probably gonna be a lot more shooters coming to ASA's because they can't shoot what they have now.


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## MrBobo (Sep 28, 2009)

I shoot a B stinger rod, but use a Craftsman socket for the end weight. Sockets cost about $5; I like about 6 oz for the end weight, not #'s. 

I like 6pt sockets for indoors, 12 pt sockets for outdoors windy conditions. The 12pt really tightens up my groups outside. 

My point is , while some of your end weights may not be legal- the rod still has uses.


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## bcbow1971 (Oct 24, 2007)

MrBobo said:


> I shoot a B stinger rod, but use a Craftsman socket for the end weight. Sockets cost about $5; I like about 6 oz for the end weight, not #'s.
> 
> I like 6pt sockets for indoors, 12 pt sockets for outdoors windy conditions. The 12pt really tightens up my groups outside.
> 
> My point is , while some of your end weights may not be legal- the rod still has uses.


I have standard weights that will be legal on the end however that defeets the purpose of my T bar!!! But I think those who are affected, manufactuers and shooters, need to start a protest and or boycott IBO shoots for 2012.......


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## OHIOARCHER36 (Oct 12, 2010)

Whatever ..... Guess it's there org. I hunt with it should be allowed to shoot it , the rule does say under 12'' , not 2'' dia .


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## rock77 (Apr 7, 2007)

bcbow1971 said:


> I have standard weights that will be legal on the end however that defeets the purpose of my T bar!!! But I think those who are affected, manufactuers and shooters, need to start a protest and or boycott IBO shoots for 2012.......


Dude are you serious?????????


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## Dv8tion (Jan 24, 2012)

I shoot the open class and use that rig for hunting. My pulse is black, almost a "target" color and I use a CopperJohn ants Target sight. My stab is only 9 inches. What I hunt with would never pass as a hunter class rig. I think these rules are mostly in effect so stop people from complaining, However the opposite seems to be the norm.


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## Grnmtn (Feb 1, 2003)

viper16 said:


> It makes sense to me that one would progress from HC>MBR> AHC> MBO would be a natural progression through skill and equipment, going to more target style gear as you hit the more advanced classes. HC is even classified as an entry level adult class.
> 
> While yes you can hunt with large and multiple stabilizers, they are by no means typical hunting equipment. The little vibration dampeners, or nothing at all, are far more common than a true stabilizer for hunting purposes.
> 
> It would make sense that HC and MBR have the same equipment headlines, and be more restrictive than AHC or MBO.


In MBR you are able to use what ever stabilizer system, side bars, V bars ect that you can use in Open, just with un limited fixed pins and an APX of 45 yards... AHC is still limited to the 12 in stabilizer systems and 4 fixed pins, Apx. 40 yard max. So you might want to swap your middle two.


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## jfuller17 (Jan 28, 2007)

Guys that are upset.....call IBO and explain why you are. After all they said the new guys are the ones that have been asking about the bars and they listened to them so veterans should be able to voice their opinions as well.


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## viper16 (Nov 10, 2011)

Yep, I don't know where I got the two crossed, must have been going between the pages comparing different classes.


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## J Moore (Nov 17, 2011)

QuickKen said:


> Suggestion on fixing this stab rule.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


^^^^^ this


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## johnh1720 (Apr 10, 2009)

bcbow1971 said:


> AHC has same stab rules as HC.....so that will have to be a change as well....


Ken told me personnally that this rule is only for hunter class not advanced hunter. We will see if that holds true.


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## josechno (Sep 20, 2007)

Does the IBO see that you can hunt with long Stabs and back bars ????


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## bigbulljoe (Jul 2, 2005)

I like the idea of having the Hunter Class rules being adjusted to bring them back in line with the original intent of the Hunter class which was as an introductory level to 3D competition. While changing the rules may anger some who currently compete in this division, the fact remains that there are lots of other equipment divisions available for them to compete in. Does it mean that someone can't hunt with arrows fatter than the rules permit or use a stabilizer for hunting which is longer than 12" or fit in a 2" tube? Of course not, but it does mean that you will not be able to compete in the IBO's introductory level Hunter Class with them. Plain and simple. I don't think too many people would argue with the fact that the* majority *of bow hunters shoot fixed pins (3 or 4), straight stabilizers under 12" long without v-bars and arrows of a diameter less than .320" and that is who we should be targeting to shoot in this beginner class.

I mention arrow diameter knowing that there is not currently a rule about arrow diameter for Hunter Class but I fully think there should be and hopefully the IBO will introduce one along with the stabilizer changes for 2013. If you consistently "shoot up" in a class that was intended for beginners to 3D competition, you are not in the right division and there are a plethora of divisions available for you to shoot in that have different equipment restrictions that were intended for Archers/Bow hunters of your ability and preferred equipment.

I don't know why people get upset being told they are too good for a beginner division or that the equipment rules have to change from time to time to reflect advances in technology so that the original intent of a division is maintained.


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## rock77 (Apr 7, 2007)

bigbulljoe said:


> I like the idea of having the Hunter Class rules being adjusted to bring them back in line with the original intent of the Hunter class which was as an introductory level to 3D competition. While changing the rules may anger some who currently compete in this division, the fact remains that there are lots of other equipment divisions available for them to compete in. Does it mean that someone can't hunt with arrows fatter than the rules permit or use a stabilizer for hunting which is longer than 12" or fit in a 2" tube? Of course not, but it does mean that you will not be able to compete in the IBO's introductory level Hunter Class with them. Plain and simple. I don't think too many people would argue with the fact that the* majority *of bow hunters shoot fixed pins (3 or 4), straight stabilizers under 12" long without v-bars and arrows of a diameter less than .320" and that is who we should be targeting to shoot in this beginner class.
> 
> I mention arrow diameter knowing that there is not currently a rule about arrow diameter for Hunter Class but I fully think there should be and hopefully the IBO will introduce one along with the stabilizer changes for 2013. If you consistently "shoot up" in a class that was intended for beginners to 3D competition, you are not in the right division and there are a plethora of divisions available for you to shoot in that have different equipment restrictions that were intended for Archers/Bow hunters of your ability and preferred equipment.
> 
> I don't know why people get upset being told they are too good for a beginner division or that the equipment rules have to change from time to time to reflect advances in technology so that the original intent of a division is maintained.


I agree!!!!! I think they are afraid of anything over 35yds.!!!!!


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## ohiobullseye (Feb 6, 2011)

I do think there are alot of scaredy cats and chickens in HC to move out passed the 35 yard mark. :chicken01:


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## andyjen (Jan 7, 2010)

Can someone clarify the difference between the hunter and advanced hunter class? Do both these shoot at the same ibo 3d yardages ? Is it just an equipment difference?


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## rock77 (Apr 7, 2007)

andyjen said:


> Can someone clarify the difference between the hunter and advanced hunter class? Do both these shoot at the same ibo 3d yardages ? Is it just an equipment difference?


This year there is no real difference in equipment but 5 yards in distance hunter 35 yds. AHC 40 yds. rule change is proposed for the 2013 shooting year and it will not include the AHC.
As far as we know right now.


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## Grnmtn (Feb 1, 2003)

Actually if they just add a true novice class then no one had to get crasy about the change in intent of the original hunter class and the newbee get a year or two to figure out where they would like to go.


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

I hunt with a 12" B-Stinger with either a 14 or 11 oz. weight. I've been shooting AHC.

View attachment 1268061
View attachment 1268062
View attachment 1268063


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## bcbow1971 (Oct 24, 2007)

rock77 said:


> This year there is no real difference in equipment but 5 yards in distance hunter 35 yds. AHC 40 yds. rule change is proposed for the 2013 shooting year and it will not include the AHC.
> As far as we know right now.


If it were only HC affected that is fine as long as it is not the AHC, which is what I usually shoot.


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## treeman65 (Nov 24, 2005)

and I suppose you shoot pro or semi pro. Where do people get off crying about what class someone else shoots?
I have people cry when I shot bow novice then heard it again when I moved to open c.Then I went to semi and still had a couple people cry about it.
Guess people need something to cry about instead of just enjoying the sport. Maybe I should hunter and use no stabilizer to give someone and excusse to cry.


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## treeman65 (Nov 24, 2005)

nice buck kent


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## ls3 (Jun 30, 2010)

At the end of the day if your winning people will b!tch and its up to you to either argue or find another way to be competitive


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## MentalMisfit (Nov 15, 2011)

I ended up just deciding to shoot MBR instead can't wait to shoot some 45yrd shots I'm sure I won't do that great I'm still horrible at judging yardages but i just do this for fun anyways.


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## jawmarq (Dec 31, 2008)

to all of the guys against the rule change; if the pro target archers go kill a deer with their target bow setups, you'd have no problem with them coming to all the shoots and shooting hunter class with them?


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## Ohbowhunter815 (Jul 19, 2010)

I'm sure the IBO has very good reasons for what they do but dont believe they got this one right. Im not saying there shouldn't be some tinkering with classes. I think HC equipment rules should be what they are now. 1st thing I think you should do is bump the better archers up to AHC by moving the top 25% of HC shooters as determined by their scores at National events. Not 1 event but if you finish in the top 25% at 2 events in 2 calendar years you are not a novice archer and should step back 5 yards.

Why would the IBO care if a guy with a Doinker Dish shoots 20 down in HC. Do they really want to tell that guy to move up a class. It should be more about the archers abilities than his equipment. Not to mention if a hunter wants to shoot an IBO event and he/she happens to have a dish that bumps them to AHC.

Leave the equipment alone and focus on getting archers with the same abilities in the same class.


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## LCA (Apr 20, 2009)

jawmarq said:


> to all of the guys against the rule change; if the pro target archers go kill a deer with their target bow setups, you'd have no problem with them coming to all the shoots and shooting hunter class with them?


Huh??... this makes no sense... i don't think levi morgan, jack wallace etc. need there target bows to beat anyone shooting hunter class. I would be willing to bet they could win with a cheap bow with no stab, believe it or not the guy pulling the string makes more of a difference than equipment.


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## 6rob4 (May 3, 2010)

just make it a money class as soon as you win $300.00 you never shoot it again pay top 10 places after all they do pay as much as us shooting other classes.and if you go by size of class they probably put more money in the sport than any 2 classes combined.my question is where is all the money from that class go.


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## wpk (Jan 31, 2009)

6rob4 said:


> just make it a money class as soon as you win $300.00 you never shoot it again pay top 10 places after all they do pay as much as us shooting other classes.and if you go by size of class they probably put more money in the sport than any 2 classes combined.my question is where is all the money from that class go.


They do give out gift cards at random lol what a joke


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## wpk (Jan 31, 2009)

The IBO is not for the shooter or to make the competition better they are for making ther wallets fatter at the end of the day this rule will not change anything the best shooters in this class will win and it's not going to keep the people they want out of this class out


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## hunter terrior (May 15, 2008)

I don't understand the rule change. If there was that much of an advantage everyone that lived to shoot 3D would use it. Dishes, fat arrows, get over it. We all have the the ability to buy, trade this stuff. IMO I shoot 3D for fun, meet new people that share the passion and practice. I know somebody is going to say it, "we are not made of money and we all can't afford new stuff" if that was true you would not pay $35 dollars every other weekend to shoot fake animals. Sorry, not trying to be a jerk but usaully the better shooter wins, the stabilizer with the dish probably isnt the reason.


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## Fleahop (Feb 7, 2009)

-BIS- said:


> I spoke with Mr. Watkins at the ATA show last week, and he said there will be a stabilizer rule change. He was not sure if it would go into effect in 2012, but for sure for 2013. He said that the stabilizer must fit into a 2" tube (which would make most dish style stabilizers illegal to use).


This is just another reason to keep the dot shooters and the 3D shooter separated. All the different archery organizations need to work together to keep the different class rules as close to the same as possible. Don't worry you will be having a dress code next. Men in dress's walking through the woods shooting foam that will be funny. But seriously put some thought into it, Archery as a whole is on the down swing we need to do what we can to increase the numbers not make more useless rule changes that will drive people away. 

If you want to make a rule change make a rule that says if you are a Pro with one organization then you need to shoot in the Pro class with all organizations. Then honor the dues they pay to someone else for a certain number of shoots after which they have to pay pro dues in your organization. 

Just a thought
Mike


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## bfisher (Nov 30, 2002)

Not dure what all the hubbub is about, butI have my own opinion about a few things and it's not necessarily equipment related. What is the real intent of the rule changes? Is the IBO trying to get more people to attend their shoots? Changing a stabilizer rule isn't going to do it. There are several things that might help. 

#1---lower the entry fees. Average Joe can shoot s local shoot for $10 so why pay $30 or $40 to travel (more expense) to do the same thing? Then there's the payout issue. Lower entry fees and eliminate pay-outs. How many people here would attend? If this be an issue then you're shooting for the werong reason. What ever happened to having fun?

#2---too many rules

#3--- instead of changing the stabilizer rule why not just change the name from Hunter Class to Novice, as was the original intent. Move people up in class according to score like so many target venues. After all, it's just another target venue anyway. Let's face it. If you're shooting UP at every shoot, or even close, you're not what anybody would consider a novice.


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## wpk (Jan 31, 2009)

This rule does nothing it not going to make HC guys go to AHC 
The ones that are good are going to be good no matter what you put on the front of there bow 
And for you guy that say its just for fun going to big shoots is a lot more fun if you competing and nobody goes to lose you go to the big shoots to win or you would save your money and just go to a local shoot
If they want to separate these two classes all they need is a way better move up rule that's it 
No!!!!!! equipment rule is going to do that


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## bcbow1971 (Oct 24, 2007)

From a source saying the preposed IBO rule will not be brought up and is going away!!!!


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## jimb (Feb 17, 2003)

HC needs a win and out for good rule. Can't drop into it from higher classes. I don't see why the guys that are suppose to be in this class don't complain more. You have sandbaggers dropping into it so that they can add IBO champion to their signature block. Happens nationally and at the state level.


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## LeadSled1 (Jan 3, 2008)

I've seen a couple of replies on here about only 4 pins allowed on a sight in HC/AHC. That was removed a while ago. 

From the rule book:

"There is no limit to the number of pins on a sight."


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