# Beginner Equipment



## stryder1587 (Apr 15, 2014)

This is my first post, so I'm not sure if this is the right place to ask but here goes. 
I'm about to finish a beginner's class where I've just been shooting a basic wooden ragim recurve. 
I want to take this sport seriously, but don't want to go all out buying fancy stuff. I've heard that it matters to get a decent riser as that will last you through several sets of limbs as you progress. Right now I think the options I'm looking at are: SF premium, Cartel Fantom, Hoyt Excel and Samick Avante. 
Any recommendations, or comments on how to choose between them?

What would be a good set of limbs to start with? In terms of draw strength, I've been shooting 26# without any problems. I'm sure I could handle much more as I have been doing weightlifting for 8 years, however, I have read over and over that one should start light and learn proper form before upping the weight. So my question here is what's a reasonable weight that is light enough to learn form but not so light that I am wasting time?

What finger tab would you guys recommend? As for stabilizer and sight, are these important for a beginner? Should I learn traditional style without a sight before adding on these accessories or should I start learning with these things on as soon as possible? I am interested in target archery specifically. 

Thanks!


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## baller (Oct 4, 2006)

You'll probably be better suited to ask this question in the FITA forums....more recurve shooters over there that will be glad to help you.


To answer your questions, if you are handling 26# now, bump 4#, but go cheap on the limbs because you will probably bump again in the near future. Don't go up in poundage too quickly or your form will suffer. SF Axiom limbs are cheap and very good for the money.

A good riser that will grow with you for years is the SF Forged Plus....

The AAE Elite tab with a cordovan face is really the only way to go....the size is the height of the tab (from pinky to forefinger) not the length of the tab (palm to fingertip). Usually a Large will work well for many shooters.

Stabilizers and sights are ok to get now if you have the budget and are going to shoot Olympic freestyle. A simple inexpensive long rod with about 4-6 oz on the end of it will work fine for now.....SF Axiom or Easton ACE....

Don't worry about a clicker for a few months as your draw length will stretch out as you get stronger and perfect your form.


The is the link to the FITA forum....tons of info there...
http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/forumdisplay.php?f=24

Good luck.


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## c365 (May 15, 2013)

baller said:


> To answer your questions, if you are handling 26# now, bump 4#, but go cheap on the limbs because you will probably bump again in the near future. Don't go up in poundage too quickly or your form will suffer. SF Axiom limbs are cheap and very good for the money.
> 
> A good riser that will grow with you for years is the SF Forged Plus....
> 
> ...


I'd say this is some good advice, just about exactly what I started with nine months ago and use today. From what I understand the SF Premium does not have limb alignment. For a few dollars more get the SF Forged Plus. On the draw weight, what you can pull for a few times with all your might is totally, completely, NOT the weight for you. The proper weight is what you can hold comfortably for a good number of seconds and repeatedly without starting to shake and lose control.

If you want a detailed explanation, *read this*. You may not use a ten pound bow but the principle is what matters.


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## robin smith (Jun 6, 2011)

Styder you are doing things the correct way stay with a good coach.
You are going to have the same problem I had in that you are probably too strong. The thing you need to learn is which muscles to use and which to relax.
stretch exercises will help allot to get proper form. I found that it is better not to lift before shooting.
Baller gave good advise as well.


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## larry tom (Aug 16, 2012)

Stryder, allow me to share my experience and background. I started shooting seriously in the fall of 2012 after taking an intro course through one of the local archery clubs (I have since then joined the club). Shortly after I completed the course I purchased my first bow. It's the Cartel Fantom and KAP T-Rex limbs noted below in my signature line. I started shooting bare bow, and stayed with that for almost a year. But then I decided I wanted to shoot Olympic style, and once that decision was made it was a matter of getting the required equipment for that style of shooting. So here's my 2-cents:

Ditto on Ballers advice. I like my Cartel Fantom riser. For about $130.00, you get a lot of bang for the buck. The SF Forged Plus has also gotten a lot of rave reviews on this forum. Pair either with the Axiom limbs and you have a very good ILF starter bow that will last you a while. I also agree with the advise about shooting with relatively light weight poundage. That will allow you to develop your form and enhance your consistency in your shot sequence. A most have is a good arrow rest and plunger. But you don't have to spend a lot of money on those. Get a long rod stabilizer, but here too, you don't need to spend a lot of money. Then there is a target sight. As a beginner, this will be the most expensive item to purchase, even more than your bow. But don't skimp on that. Shibuya, Axcel, and Sure-Loc are all good companies. The Elite tab is used by many shooters, including many, many top rated archers. I used it for a long time, but I like the Black Mamba that I use now because of the more comfortable (at least for me) finger spacer. You'll likely be staying with this level of equipment for some time as you start to get proficient and consistent. Then you can think about getting a clicker.

Good luck with your shooting.
Larry


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## Azzurri (Mar 10, 2014)

I'd find a coach and a practice range first because the coaching is more important than the gear. Also, the coach/ range may have equipment you can use while you are learning, which will also give you an idea what you like, when you buy.

Securing the coach also impacts what equipment to buy and when. Riser, limbs, and string are basic but a coach might want you to follow a progression on sight, stabilizer, clicker, etc. Arrows need to be cut to a draw length that may not be settled yet. Clicker type might reflect riser and arrow length. Tab might reflect anchor point being taught. Certain equipment may only work with certain other stuff.

18-20# seems to be the standard adult starting point. As far as 26# goes, remember the test is pulling it through a clicker on later ends and not easiness at the beginning of practice.

A Samick Polaris could take most of the accessories, low cost, inexpensive limbs while you get that weight sorted. If you have to get something that looks serious, Premium seems to be SF's notch below Forged Plus, but it's new and priced like it. In comparison the SF Forged Plus is more expensive but pretty good and popular with some quirks.

I'd let a coach tell you when to get the rest of the stuff.


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## fluke (Aug 12, 2012)

i wouldn't recommend a polaris... sure it's fine for starting but if you are going to use an entry level wooden bow you might as well use your clubs' ragim for a while.

get something ilf that you'd keep for longer. the new sf premium+ doesn't look bad


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## Azzurri (Mar 10, 2014)

fluke said:


> i wouldn't recommend a polaris... sure it's fine for starting but if you are going to use an entry level wooden bow you might as well use your clubs' ragim for a while.
> 
> get something ilf that you'd keep for longer. the new sf premium+ doesn't look bad


When I first started out I got myself a Samick that I could use on my own on weekends. I used the range bow on the regular day. If I wanted to practice at a different indoor range or outdoors I was not tied to the lesson date and the lesson location. The whole kit costs less than a full blown intermediate riser and shoots reasonably well. It has been passed on to a new beginner.

When the range graduated me to a serious bow and began having me use a clicker, then I got my own serious bow, including clicker, so I could control the equipment settings. At that point I had some experience using stuff and could make some informed choices on purchases. I still screwed up a couple items, but I'm saying the big splurge can wait until the sophistication of what you need practically forces the upgrades.

I'm just saying he can go either way, beginner stuff for a beginner, or intermediate to grow into. Beginner stuff would be cheaper....


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## kaerey (Jan 31, 2014)

I just started like you back in January. I went from renting a few times to buying my own rig. 

I have found that the single greatest improvement in my shooting came from not any of the accessories, but from investing in my form through a coach. Yes, I bought a plunger, clicker, stabilizer, tab, carbon arrows, sight and upgrade sight pin, but of all the things, getting a consistent form and release point through coaching gave me the biggest improvement in my shooting. 

Outside of the Coaching I think the one accessory that has given me the most enjoyment in shooting (combination of improved groupings and enjoyment in shooting) was probably a bow square (http://www.lancasterarchery.com/carbon-express-pro-bow-square.html) 

This one piece of equipment has helped me to maintain a consistent brace height of my string since I take it on and off every time I shoot. I've found that even 1/8" of an inch in difference can change the shot by as much as 6 inches in vertical height.


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## stryder1587 (Apr 15, 2014)

Thank you all for the excellent advice!
I can comfortably hold the 26# at full draw for a long time. Right now since I don't have an arm guard or finger tab, it's the forearm slapping and sore fingers that holds me back. Does forearm slap indicate bad form though? Hopefully not since even pro's use arm guards. 

Robin, what type of stretching exercises would you recommend? Which muscles should be emphasized - forearms, triceps, upper back?

For the riser, I'm hearing a lot of good things about the Fantom and Sf Forged+ but I feel like the Forged+ is fairly expensive at $250 compared to the Fantom at $130. Sure I could look at it as an extra $120, but it's also practically double. The third option, Avante, I am heavily being swayed by this youtube review. I like how it looks (the blue looks beautiful) and at $180 seems reasonable. But it's so unpopular outside of this one youtube review, I don't know how much I can trust it. He says its the best bang for buck, with an even better pocket system than the forged+. But supposedly there is very little support for the product, lower resale value (since nobody knows about it)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfZunGcyqMI
Can someone please point out the flaws in this review to unsway me? I think I'm likely to go for the Fantom when all is said and done. If I ever did an upgrade on the riser I'd just go above forged+ but that would be something at least 5 years away. 

For plungers and rests, are these all interchangeable with different risers? What would you guys recommend for these?


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## fluke (Aug 12, 2012)

a friend of mine shoots the fantom and as long as you don't use fantom limbs it's fine .(here's why http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1810971 and i also have a friend who witnessed it)

i recall some loose or shallow threads on the riser but nothing a bit of threadlock or teflon tape couldn't fix. i shot the forged plus and while i loved it, i do find it hard to justify choosing it over the cartel riser (well it does have a nicer finish imo and i liked the alignment system but then again, how often do you need to align the limbs anyway?)

and for the avante i never shot or saw one up close but here's a review and by the looks of it i'd go for the cartel or sf
http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1810971


sf also has a new premium+ riser in your price range. have a look


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## projayjay (Jan 1, 2014)

fluke said:


> a friend of mine shoots the fantom and as long as you don't use fantom limbs it's fine .(here's why http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1810971 and i also have a friend who witnessed it)
> 
> i recall some loose or shallow threads on the riser but nothing a bit of threadlock or teflon tape couldn't fix. i shot the forged plus and while i loved it, i do find it hard to justify choosing it over the cartel riser (well it does have a nicer finish imo and i liked the alignment system but then again, how often do you need to align the limbs anyway?)
> 
> ...


fluke, you put in the link about the fantom as the link about the avante.


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## StarDog (Feb 17, 2007)

Stryder: I am popping off to the UPS place right now to pick up my stuff from Lancaster Archery -- Core Spark riser which is forged aluminum and anodized and looks adjustable, and is about $125 on Lancaster's site but it's only in RIGHT HAND, so you know. Axiom limbs, shibuya DX plunger, hoyt super rest and a D97 string and a long stabilizer. I am waiting on getting a sight til I get used to this new gear. I have been shooting range gear since January and reading this forum and gleaning a substantial amount of information from here. 

I gave a lot of thought to risers as you are doing, including the Cartel Fantom and the SF Forged. I had settled on the Cartel Fantom til Limbwalker started a thread about the Core Spark and someone else chimed in who has two of them and is well pleased. It's a total unknown to me, but I am betting it beats what I have been shooting at the pro shop (PSE Optima).


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## fluke (Aug 12, 2012)

projayjay said:


> fluke, you put in the link about the fantom as the link about the avante.


my bad

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1978572

bottom line, stay away


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## lksseven (Mar 21, 2010)

kaerey said:


> I just started like you back in January. I went from renting a few times to buying my own rig.
> 
> I have found that the single greatest improvement in my shooting came from not any of the accessories, but from investing in my form through a coach. Yes, I bought a plunger, clicker, stabilizer, tab, carbon arrows, sight and upgrade sight pin, but of all the things, getting a consistent form and release point through coaching gave me the biggest improvement in my shooting.
> 
> ...


Definitely get an armguard (you can pick one up at Bass Pro for about $5). And either finger tab mentioned is a good choice.

Upper back, which also necessarily engages your shoulders (and limbering up your neck will pay big dividends, too, especially if you're past a certain age).

26lb is probably fine, especially if you're fit and strong and a weightlifter. In many times, many people who aren't weightlifters may not realize how much weightlifting not only builds muscle, but also creates contracting and tensile strength in tendons and joints that are orders of magnitude greater than non-weightlifters, and it's this tendon strength that provides much of archery stability and gives the weightlifter a different beginning 'limb weight calculus'. I'll likely get some debate with this paragraph, but I'm comfortable to have it (but whatever you do, don't admit to doing barbell or dumbbell curls, unless you want to incur the wrath of Spangler here ... just kidding, Spangler!)


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## stryder1587 (Apr 15, 2014)

StarDog said:


> Stryder: I am popping off to the UPS place right now to pick up my stuff from Lancaster Archery -- Core Spark riser which is forged aluminum and anodized and looks adjustable, and is about $125 on Lancaster's site but it's only in RIGHT HAND, so you know. Axiom limbs, shibuya DX plunger, hoyt super rest and a D97 string and a long stabilizer. I am waiting on getting a sight til I get used to this new gear. I have been shooting range gear since January and reading this forum and gleaning a substantial amount of information from here.
> 
> I gave a lot of thought to risers as you are doing, including the Cartel Fantom and the SF Forged. I had settled on the Cartel Fantom til Limbwalker started a thread about the Core Spark and someone else chimed in who has two of them and is well pleased. It's a total unknown to me, but I am betting it beats what I have been shooting at the pro shop (PSE Optima).


Can you please link me to the thread regarding the core spark riser? I've heard machined aluminum is supposed to be better, but I've never seen anybody even talk about this riser not to mention recommend it. If there's enough of a user base to validate that it is a better buy than the Fantom, I would definitely consider getting it. 

Why the Shibuya DX, D97 string and which stabilizer? Not sure how to choose between these things right now?

Right now, I'm quite set on 
Cartel Fantom
SF Axiom Plus [email protected]#
AAE elite finger tab
hoyt super rest

Unsure of:
arrows
sight
long rod stabilizer
string
nock
plunger
arm guard
stringer
case
quiver

Can you guys recommend good value bang for buck items for the above?


In regards to working out, for sure your joints/tendons are more resilient since they take a blunt of the pressure from moving heavy weight. Just curious, what's the deal with Spangler and dumbbell/barbell curls? lol


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## lksseven (Mar 21, 2010)

stryder1587 said:


> Can you please link me to the thread regarding the core spark riser? I've heard machined aluminum is supposed to be better, but I've never seen anybody even talk about this riser not to mention recommend it. If there's enough of a user base to validate that it is a better buy than the Fantom, I would definitely consider getting it.
> 
> Why the Shibuya DX, D97 string and which stabilizer? Not sure how to choose between these things right now?
> 
> ...


Oh, a few months ago there was a thread about weightlifting and archery, and Spangler (whose posts I enjoy) had professed his complete derision for curls as a strength enhancing exercise that could benefit archery pursuits - I think his phrase was something along the lines of "sissy curls" or something like that. His pronouncement was so firm and dogmatic that something about it kind of tickled me. So every so often when I think of it and the occasion seems to call for it, I tease him obliquely about that thread. We've never met, so I hope if we ever meet face to face that either 1) he knows I'm good naturedly laughing _with_ him, or 2) he's much smaller and older than me. 

But, for the record, I disagree with him about the curls. While showy biceps don't much aid the archer, curls, especially standing curls, invoke a wealth of support muscle involvement (wrist, elbow, core, upper back, entire shoulder girdle, trapezius) that is very beneficial to archery stability.


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## c365 (May 15, 2013)

StarDog said:


> Stryder: I am popping off to the UPS place right now to pick up my stuff from Lancaster Archery -- Core Spark riser which is forged aluminum and anodized and looks adjustable


StarDog, please give us your impressions of the Core Spark riser when you get it in your hands. I'm still thinking about it.


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## StarDog (Feb 17, 2007)

C365: just started a thread with my thoughts on the riser. 

Styder: do a search on "core spark" and Limbwalker's thread should come up. There is a youtube video from Merlin Archery about setting up the Samick Vision II and it is exactly the same riser. I mean exactly. Must come from the same factory and folks just slap their label on it. 

I couldn't tell you if the Cartel Fantom was a better riser or not. I was thinking about it as well til this one came along. I doubt you could go wrong either way, frankly. 

and I started a review thread on the Core Spark. I was vastly impressed.


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## robin smith (Jun 6, 2011)

stryder1587 said:


> Thank you all for the excellent advice!
> 
> Robin, what type of stretching exercises would you recommend? Which muscles should be emphasized - forearms, triceps, upper back?


Using a post or other such item extend your arm out to shoulder height with your palm on post rotate your body so as your arm goes behind your back as far as comfortable and hold for 30 seconds. This stretches your chest out and will help you bring your scapula around.

slide you hand up the pole as far as you can go and hold for 30 seconds and slide it back down slowly.

also warm up and stretch neck, shoulders, lower back and hips.

remember archery is a total body sport things like foot placement and contracting your core stomack muscles are as important as other aspects.

scapula and lats , the more you learn to use these and not your shoulders and byceps the more consistent and less subject to fatigue.


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## stryder1587 (Apr 15, 2014)

StarDog said:


> C365: just started a thread with my thoughts on the riser.
> 
> Styder: do a search on "core spark" and Limbwalker's thread should come up. There is a youtube video from Merlin Archery about setting up the Samick Vision II and it is exactly the same riser. I mean exactly. Must come from the same factory and folks just slap their label on it.
> 
> ...


I read through both threads. I don't think they are exactly the same. Raven Prestige FX and Samick Vision II are the same with a different badge, but Core Archer Spark is slightly different. The Spark clearly looks different than the other 2. 

What limbs did you get with yours and are there any problems? 
I'll be following your thread too, hopefully it'll give me some closure before I purchase. Post pics too!


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## stryder1587 (Apr 15, 2014)

I think I've decided on the following equipment, please give me suggestions on what is good or not (essentially the confidence to pull the switch):

Riser: Raven Prestige FX since it's on sale for $139 at Alternativess
Limbs: SF Axiom + (I see a used pair at 26# for $69 CAD, but I have to drive there and the gas roundtrip would negate the savings, thinking of getting a new pair from Lancaster, shipping to friend in USA and get it when they drive back to Toronto)
Arrows: A dozen Easton XX75 Platinum Plus. What shaft size do I need?
String: Which string should I get? 
Tab: Cartel Smart Finger Tab $20 vs AAE Elite Finger Tab $39 both are Cordovan, does the brand really matter?
Arm Guard: http://www.lancasterarchery.com/aae-armguard.html or http://www.lancasterarchery.com/beiter-armguard.html
Maybe it's a dumb question but why does the beiter armguard look like it barely protects anything, its so narrow, what if the string hits above or below that piece of plastic...yet somehow it's the most well reviewed piece.
Bowstand: Recommendation?
Plunger: This isn't necessary right?
Rest: Hoyt Super Rest - sounds like a good one for only $2.50, is it compatible with the Raven Prestige FX?
String: Recommend?
Nocks: How many of these do I need, do they ever break/fall off/deteriorate? Recommend a brand/model please. 

I don't even know how to set up all of this stuff once I buy it. Is there a tutorial somewhere?
I've seen a youtube video about setting up the Samick Vision II (essentially the same bow), but I'm curious, do you guys need to do all of that alignment and adjusting EVERY time you go out to shoot since you take the limbs off etc. I assume the rest and plunger stay on the riser when you store it. Is a storage case/bag recommended?


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## theminoritydude (Feb 11, 2013)

FIND A COACH.

If you cannot afford one, at least join a club first. Then make some friends. It helps to choose your friends wisely, like those who are about your height and your weight.

DO anything, just DON'T buy anything for the moment.


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## fluke (Aug 12, 2012)

string: fastflite should be good enough
Tab: a lot of top end archers like the elite. i have no idea how well the cartel will hold up but can't go wrong with the elite
Armguard: as a beginner get something larger. when starting out you'd most likely hit the area around the elbow (which is wy many beginners look for this type of guard : http://www.lancasterarchery.com/x-spot-guardian-xl-adult-leather-armguard.html). the slim armguards are there to protect your arm from the string that returns after the arrow left it (like illustrated here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zdEXeycY5I )
bowstand: i like my cartel rx105
plunger: not necessary, essential. get the shibuya dx
rest: hoyt super rest is pretty good


you only setup once. and i personally remove the button for storage


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## stryder1587 (Apr 15, 2014)

For the string its this one? 
http://www.lancasterarchery.com/cartel-fast-flight-recurve-string-white.html
If I get a 25inch riser with medium limbs, that comes out to 68inches and thats the "68 inch AMO" length that I want? Should I ignore that note about the actual marked length? I'm assuming that includes the loop at the end of the string that goes around the limbs which don't count?

I'll get that armguard you suggested and the AAE Elite. 

What's the difference between the RX105 and RX104?

How do I setup the plunger?

I read somewhere I should get a couple hoyt super rests...do these break often or something?

Also about the nocks, please recommend something. Nobody ever talks about these, maybe its common sense basic stuff to you guys, but I have no idea what the differences are, what I should get, how many to get and why.


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## fluke (Aug 12, 2012)

for the string yes for a 68" bow get a 68" string. as simple as that

For the arm guard you can also get the thinner one. you just have to place it well on the arm where the string strikes

for the bowstand the actual real difference is the way the legs fold. honestly even the most basic ones does the job so you can go cheap here

setting up the plunger can get quite complicated. ideally you should do a bareshaft tuning. if you don't have a bareshaft you can do the walkback tuning. all is explained here http://www.archersreference.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/archref_05.pdf

and about nocks, i believe the P+ already has them installed so go with that (i think they are g nocks). as for size i'll let someone more knowledgeable on the subject answer you


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## Azzurri (Mar 10, 2014)

104 folds the legs, 105 you screw in the legs.

String nocks or arrow nocks? String nocks I got the black brass ones. That's related to string size. 

Arrow nocks, follow the chart across. Since I was looking at this for myself yesterday, I believe at either 19xx or 20xx it goes from G-uni to something else. If you're 18xx or below I think the chart will tell you G. But double check please.


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## Arsi (May 14, 2011)

Disclaimer, I have not read this entire thread. I just searched for Raven Prestige because I remembered I read it somewhere. I think its this one.

Do not go with the Raven Prestige riser.

The sight window is too narrow and you cant set center shot properly without the arrow being dangerously close to the riser. The cutout is just not deep enough or the riser is just too thick. One of my league mates just bought this riser and its great on the surface, but the limb alignment isnt even an actual limb alignment system that is standard on most bows. Its just a dowel being held together with a bold and one washer on the outside of the riser holding it together.

Id say go with an SF riser.


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## stryder1587 (Apr 15, 2014)

fluke said:


> For the arm guard you can also get the thinner one. you just have to place it well on the arm where the string strikes
> 
> for the bowstand the actual real difference is the way the legs fold. honestly even the most basic ones does the job so you can go cheap here
> 
> ...


I'm getting struck all over my arm from elbow to upper forearm, I'll just get the full coverage one you listed lol

RX104 it is. Thanks for the reading material! So the nocks on the P+ will "click" into place on the Cartel Fastflight strings? 



Azzurri said:


> 104 folds the legs, 105 you screw in the legs.
> 
> String nocks or arrow nocks? String nocks I got the black brass ones. That's related to string size.
> 
> Arrow nocks, follow the chart across. Since I was looking at this for myself yesterday, I believe at either 19xx or 20xx it goes from G-uni to something else. If you're 18xx or below I think the chart will tell you G. But double check please.


What are the different string sizes? I was just thinking of getting this which only asks for length so I presumed string "thickness" is all standard? 
http://www.lancasterarchery.com/cartel-fast-flight-recurve-string-white.html
What string nocks would fit on here? As, Fluke mentioned above, the platinum+ already have nocks installed so as long as that fits on the string, I'm happy. 



Arsi said:


> Disclaimer, I have not read this entire thread. I just searched for Raven Prestige because I remembered I read it somewhere. I think its this one.
> 
> Do not go with the Raven Prestige riser.
> 
> ...


 WOW, that changes everything. I think I've searched every thread on here about the Raven and never heard such a thing. Do you happen to know where you saw that thread? 

Now I'm back to picking riser again....
Samick Avante - looks good (like a W&W Inno CXT replica), but paint chips ($180)
Core Archery Spark - machined aluminum, anodized finish but no reputation ($124)
SF Forged - mostly highly recommended entry/intermediate riser but will cost a lot more - is it worth the difference?...($250)


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## TER (Jul 5, 2003)

Platinum Plus arrows do not come with nocks installed. They will come with bushings installed that the nock inserts into. The 1916 and weaker shafts have Uni-Bushings, the 2013 and stiffer have Super Uni-Bushings. Then you must buy the appropriate insert nocks to fit into the bushings. For example, with Beiter nocks the 12/1 (1 means small groove) and 12/2 (2 means large groove) fit into Uni-Bushings. The Beiter 19/1 and 19/2 fit into Super Uni-Bushings.


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## TER (Jul 5, 2003)

String thickness is not "standard." The more strands a string has the thicker it will be. That's why there are small groove nocks and large groove nocks. A 14 strand string made of most string materials will likely fit a small groove nock. Large groove nocks are for 18 strand or more strings, usually. Try to avoid Cartel stuff. If it's significantly cheaper than other brands, okay, I can see saving a few dollars for now while you are just finding out how much you like archery. But if you are choosing an item where the Cartel model is the same price as any other brand, get the other brand.


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## fluke (Aug 12, 2012)

about risers, the core spark is pretty much the same thing as the raven (or so i'm told) and the SF is a highly recommended riser for a reason . you can also consider the cartel fantom and the hoyt horizon but you'll need to get an arrow rest and a plunger (those are included with sf bows)


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## Azzurri (Mar 10, 2014)

The string length is a standard called AMO, related to riser + limb length (less a difference of 3" for recurves I think). The AMO should be on the limbs. Take the AMO number and buy string accordingly, eg, "68" AMO string."

The variable is number of strands. Holding the 68" AMO constant, some bowstrings of equal length can be bought with more or fewer strands. But the Cartel you are looking at gives a set choice (14).

One other factor you might consider on that is whether you want white. Some people get black, other colors, or white. There can be a fashion choice there but white in particular could get dirty. Are you real precise where you could keep white clean, do you intend to use it outdoors, are you OCD where a dirty white string would drive you insane. These are things to consider.


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## blanco (Mar 19, 2014)

Do I have to have it twisted at all times? I've set up my string to a less twisted scheme (My strings are default black and white) and I barely noticed any difference in my shooting. But should I notice it being a beginner? 

Should I also wax my string? 

/I shoot barebow for now until I get my form and shooting to a good medium. I'm also a newbie like the others here trying to find their way to a good scheme of things. 

cheers.


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## stryder1587 (Apr 15, 2014)

TER said:


> Platinum Plus arrows do not come with nocks installed. They will come with bushings installed that the nock inserts into. The 1916 and weaker shafts have Uni-Bushings, the 2013 and stiffer have Super Uni-Bushings. Then you must buy the appropriate insert nocks to fit into the bushings. For example, with Beiter nocks the 12/1 (1 means small groove) and 12/2 (2 means large groove) fit into Uni-Bushings. The Beiter 19/1 and 19/2 fit into Super Uni-Bushings.


Is there a table that translates sizes of different brands' 1's and 2's with their respective string strand sizes?

I'm glad I asked all this first. For the platinum plus arrows, when I buy that, is it just the shaft by itself? Do I need to buy the "points", fletchlings/vanes, nocks and bushings (if they werent P+) separately and build the arrows myself?



TER said:


> String thickness is not "standard." The more strands a string has the thicker it will be. That's why there are small groove nocks and large groove nocks. A 14 strand string made of most string materials will likely fit a small groove nock. Large groove nocks are for 18 strand or more strings, usually. Try to avoid Cartel stuff. If it's significantly cheaper than other brands, okay, I can see saving a few dollars for now while you are just finding out how much you like archery. But if you are choosing an item where the Cartel model is the same price as any other brand, get the other brand.


Which strings would you recommend? Are these my only options? http://www.lancasterarchery.com/bow...ories/bow-strings-cables.html?archery_type=10



fluke said:


> about risers, the core spark is pretty much the same thing as the raven (or so i'm told) and the SF is a highly recommended riser for a reason . you can also consider the cartel fantom and the hoyt horizon but you'll need to get an arrow rest and a plunger (those are included with sf bows)


I've ruled out Fantom since it's also painted, and I like how Avante looks over it if I were to get painted. I heard Hoyt low end models are expensive cause you are paying for the brand and not getting as much functionality. If the Spark is exactly the same as the Raven, I assume it will also have the centre shot alignment problem. Pretty much narrows my options to Avante vs Forged+. Since the Forged saves me from having to buy the Shibuya DX $40 and Super Rest $2.5. The price difference is just $27.5, might as well get Forged+ then. Even though I don't like how it looks but the logical side of me is saying go with the tried and true recommendation rather than go for looks and regret later.



Azzurri said:


> The string length is a standard called AMO, related to riser + limb length (less a difference of 3" for recurves I think). The AMO should be on the limbs. Take the AMO number and buy string accordingly, eg, "68" AMO string."
> 
> The variable is number of strands. Holding the 68" AMO constant, some bowstrings of equal length can be bought with more or fewer strands. But the Cartel you are looking at gives a set choice (14).
> 
> One other factor you might consider on that is whether you want white. Some people get black, other colors, or white. There can be a fashion choice there but white in particular could get dirty. Are you real precise where you could keep white clean, do you intend to use it outdoors, are you OCD where a dirty white string would drive you insane. These are things to consider.


Good point, black is probably better


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## stryder1587 (Apr 15, 2014)

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Arc-SF-Forge...t=FR_JG_Sports_Arc&hash=item2ed180cccb&_uhb=1

Guys, is this a left handed bow? Google translate gives me:
Recurve left in very good condition. 
Served a season, well maintained 

Content and features: 

- Handle SF Forged + left arrow rest with (Arc System) clicker (Beiter) and Berger (Arc System) 
- SF branches Premium 28lb 68'' 
- String fast flight 
- Based standard arc (arc system) 
- SF compact black case


Depending on the winning bid, looks like a good starter set at potentially a good price!


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## Azzurri (Mar 10, 2014)

Gauche = left......and unless the image is flipped around the clicker and arrow would be on the right of the riser = LH bow. You also have to factor in exchange rate (1.37)and international shipping.


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## Arsi (May 14, 2011)

stryder1587 said:


> WOW, that changes everything. I think I've searched every thread on here about the Raven and never heard such a thing. Do you happen to know where you saw that thread?


No, I meant I was looking for a thread because I saw someone suggesting this riser. I wanted to warn them to stay away because it is way overpriced for what you get, which is not much.


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## stryder1587 (Apr 15, 2014)

Just bumping thread to get more answers. I'll get the cartel fast string which I assume is the fast flite everyone says to get. 

http://alternativess.com/cgi-bin/htmlos.cgi/0013945.11.5994529883682207239?

I need to know what's necessary and how to choose:
serving on string
string nock
arrow point/inserts
fletching/vanes/bushings
arrow size(spine) and cut length, cut to suit "X" sized nocks

Finally how to set these up. Do I really need to buy a fletching jig, glue and all that? Do all of you archers build your own arrows?


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## c365 (May 15, 2013)

stryder1587 said:


> Do I really need to buy a fletching jig, glue and all that? Do all of you archers build your own arrows?


I guess it depends on how serious you are or will get about archery. In anycase, it will serve you well to do *everything* yourself, less dependence on others, quicker, and you get the job you want (generally)


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## fluke (Aug 12, 2012)

we can't view links on alternative but ready made strings are already served

at this point i think a bow square will be more useful than a fletching jig

about arrows, why not spare the headache of building them and buy some readymade for now? the bow, its components and learning how to tuned them is already a lot to learn from scratch.


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## Azzurri (Mar 10, 2014)

Over time you will find yourself doing more and more. You'll learn to do x out of need, y out of interest, and then z because it's all that's left because you understand how to do x and y and why should I have the shop do just z. I recently bought a trad bow for a change of pace and put it all together myself, rest, string nock, etc. Felt good.

That being said, I'd learn to put together your bow for now, and leave fine tuning and fletching arrows to others at this stage. You want to focus on shooting and not have a lingering issue of whether your fletching abilities are affecting where the arrows go, on top of everything else. IMO. I think as you gain experience and ability then you understand why certain assembly or tuning decisions are made and can make them properly.


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## stryder1587 (Apr 15, 2014)

fluke said:


> we can't view links on alternative but ready made strings are already served
> 
> at this point i think a bow square will be more useful than a fletching jig
> 
> about arrows, why not spare the headache of building them and buy some readymade for now? the bow, its components and learning how to tuned them is already a lot to learn from scratch.


The description on the page is very vague: 

Cartel Fast String
Price: $9.00 (each) - US Dollars excluding tax
Stock status: Normally despatched by next working day.
Description: These are ready made Fast Flight material strings suitable for the AMO length bows listed. (ie. If you have a 66in bow then buy a string marked FOR 66in BOW.)

There's also Kaya 8125 String ($12) and Kaya F.F. String ($9)

The options are 16 strand and 18 strand....which one do I need?



I've seen videos where the bow square is used for measuring brace height and I guess fine tuning of the shooting plane when you first setup right? Why else would I need a bow square? I would like to get ready made arrows but they don't seem to sell the platinum plus' ready made, only the shafts. The majority of arrows appear to be components sold separately so I figured everyone must be building their own. I'm worried that I don't know how do it properly and they are poorly constructed, don't fly straight etc.



Azzurri said:


> Over time you will find yourself doing more and more. You'll learn to do x out of need, y out of interest, and then z because it's all that's left because you understand how to do x and y and why should I have the shop do just z. I recently bought a trad bow for a change of pace and put it all together myself, rest, string nock, etc. Felt good.
> 
> That being said, I'd learn to put together your bow for now, and leave fine tuning and fletching arrows to others at this stage. You want to focus on shooting and not have a lingering issue of whether your fletching abilities are affecting where the arrows go, on top of everything else. IMO. I think as you gain experience and ability then you understand why certain assembly or tuning decisions are made and can make them properly.


I agree with you completely, but again, Lancaster doesn't seem to sell ready made arrows. Alternativess only has 4: 
Beman Carbon Flash - READY BUILT ARROWS (doz)
Easton Apollo - READY BUILT ARROWS (doz)
Easton Carbon One - READY BUILT ARROWS (doz)
Easton Tribute - READY BUILT ARROWS (doz).


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## dchan (Jun 29, 2004)

For a beginner, any string of the correct length is fine to start with. Doesn't really matter what MFG.

Since you are shooting a lighter weight bow, 16 strand is plenty. even 14 or 12 would work. The thing to be aware of is that some arrows and nocks have small groves so you really need to pay more attention to the diameter of the string where the arrow snaps onto the string. 

You don't want to tight or too loose of a fit.

Unless you plan on fletching your own arrows, you probably don't need a fletching jig just yet. You do want a bow square..

If your plan is to go with Platinum Plus arrows, 

Try http://www.addictedtoarchery.com/arrows-aluminum.aspx

Best price I've seen and they do come pre-made.

If you want to go carbon, check into the Carbon Impacts 

RE spine length, etc.. that all depends on your bow, and your size. if you are willing to go with Carbon Impact Super clubs, get the 15-25's and leave them full length for now. They will probably be on the stiff side of "tune" but will serve you well for a beginner set. They come preassembled (except for the points) and all components included (vanes, nocks, points)

Sounds like you are not quite at the place where a plunger will really make a difference yet..

Arrow rests, Super rests are great starters as well as very good for elites as well. Just be aware they are fragile if not treated well so purchase several. At 2.50-3.00 each, the shipping would cost you more than the part if you have to reorder later.

DC


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## Treepete (Jan 1, 2014)

What a great thread. I wish I had asked all these things before I started.

You sound excited and that's the best part.


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## stryder1587 (Apr 15, 2014)

dchan said:


> For a beginner, any string of the correct length is fine to start with. Doesn't really matter what MFG.
> 
> Since you are shooting a lighter weight bow, 16 strand is plenty. even 14 or 12 would work. The thing to be aware of is that some arrows and nocks have small groves so you really need to pay more attention to the diameter of the string where the arrow snaps onto the string.
> 
> ...


Perfect, I'll get 68" AMO 16 strand. People say it's good up until 40# draw. Will get maybe 3 of the super rests too, can't imagine too many of these breaking. I'll be getting the SF Forged+ which comes with rest and plunger. 

Ok, for the spine selection, I've read that it depends on 2 factors: draw weight and length of arrow. The spine number increases with stiffness and there's an easton target shaft selection chart PDF. I read in another thread, a guy has a 30# draw at 28.5 inches and decided on 1813. I guess I need to measure my draw length first which I understand is the nock point held at full draw up to the rest (the front of the rest or the back or the middle?) Then add 1.75" to determine arrow length or is that draw length?

The website you linked asks for vane style/type. How do I pick between the inches and plastifletch vs duravane? The more I get into this the more information gets thrown at me, so much science in this sport lol. I just want to get the right stuff and shoot until I become proficient enough to understand how all these things affect my shot. What is an arrow wrap? The KIBB point vs the one piece bullet point have different grain values in the chart I'm looking at. What's the difference with those? Weight, durability, penetrating power?



Treepete said:


> What a great thread. I wish I had asked all these things before I started.
> 
> You sound excited and that's the best part.


Thanks! Ya, there's so much to learn about the technical details of archery, but I'm really passionate about things I get into. Hopefully this thread can serve to help other beginners too. I haven't seen any recent threads for beginners.


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## fluke (Aug 12, 2012)

you can choose the components on this page http://www.addictedtoarchery.com/easton-platinum-plus-arrows-with-vanes-573.html

about spine, yes the higher the number the stiffer for aluminium arrows. the opposite is true for carbons: the higher the number the weaker

and good idea getting a few super rests just in case but i must say i had a good experience with my sf f+ rest


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## dchan (Jun 29, 2004)

fluke said:


> you can choose the components on this page http://www.addictedtoarchery.com/easton-platinum-plus-arrows-with-vanes-573.html
> 
> about spine, yes the higher the number the stiffer for aluminium arrows. the opposite is true for carbons: the higher the number the weaker.
> 
> and good idea getting a few super rests just in case but i must say i had a good experience with my sf f+ rest


The numbers on aluminum arrows are dimensions NOT spine numbers. Higher numbers mean bigger arrows not necessarly higher spine. The first 2 are diameter. The secound 2 numbers are wall thickness.


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## Azzurri (Mar 10, 2014)

http://www.lancasterarchery.com/capitol-aluminum-arrow.html


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## fluke (Aug 12, 2012)

dchan said:


> The numbers on aluminum arrows are dimensions NOT spine numbers. Higher numbers mean bigger arrows not necessarly higher spine. The first 2 are diameter. The secound 2 numbers are wall thickness.


yes i know what the numbers mean. I made that assumption based on the fact that thicker arrows are generally stiffer but i presume this is not always true. good to know

but why do we talk about sizes but not spine when we talk about alu arrows?


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## dchan (Jun 29, 2004)

fluke said:


> yes i know what the numbers mean. I made that assumption based on the fact that thicker arrows are generally stiffer but i presume this is not always true. good to know
> 
> but why do we talk about sizes but not spine when we talk about alu arrows?


We don't actually. It's just that the arrows are marked this way. As we get more experienced we automatically convert in our mind spine to diameter. The problem is x7 alloy is stiffer than xx75 or xx78 alloy so platinum plus are different than x7's but can both hace the designation of 1616 for instance .. 
Dchan


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## fluke (Aug 12, 2012)

as if it wasn't complicated enough as it is


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## stryder1587 (Apr 15, 2014)

Azzurri said:


> http://www.lancasterarchery.com/capitol-aluminum-arrow.html


I like that it's all setup, but there's no spine, length, nock size. How do I know if it's stiff enough for my draw weight, long enough for my draw length, and whether that nock will fit on the string?

These are platinum plus' right?


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## dchan (Jun 29, 2004)

Don't know if they are Platinum plus or maybe Jazz, blues, etc.. According to some of the reviews they are 1716's probably stiffer than I would go but . . .

Without knowing your specific info DL (AMO) DW (otf) and lots of other info, can't make an informed response to your question about if these are correct for you.

If you can't answer these questions, you really need to get to a good shop or consult with your coach, than just get something close and just go shoot.

There are probably a lot of bigger issues other than tune or spine that will be holding you back at this point.


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## Azzurri (Mar 10, 2014)

I was pointed to these when I looked at arrows from Lancaster. 1716 PPs, come with points, nocks, big feathers on. Almost more of a trad arrow.


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## fluke (Aug 12, 2012)

capitol arrows so that you can be katniss everdeen XD. be sure to get a silver riser and black limbs!


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## Azzurri (Mar 10, 2014)

I just asked if they had anything complete....and that's what the tech suggested......ended up with X7s. They don't show up in an obvious way on the site so I thought he should know they exist.


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## dchan (Jun 29, 2004)

If these are p+ 1716' then static spine is 880. And the heaviest arrow in that spine group at 9GPI


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## OCalan (May 6, 2014)

I'm new to the sport here a well, and looking at similar equipment. I've been researching past couple weeks and here's what I got:

Riser: SF Forged Plus LH
Limbs: SF Premium Limbs 26# Medium (Was going to go axiom but these were on sale at Lancaster)
String: Still haven't decided on this yet
Arrows: Carbon Impact Super Club 15/25 full length (I was looking at the Easton Plat Plus 1716, but from addicted to archery they were about $20 more than the super clubs for a dozen)
Tab: AAE Cavalier Elite Cordovan Tab
Stand: W&W Sebastian Flute Premium Magnetic Bowstand (I think any stand~$20 should work from what I read)

Everything should be coming in soon.

The SF forged plus riser comes with a rest already, so I'm not sure you'll need another. 

I'm at the same stage as you, looking at strings now


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## dchan (Jun 29, 2004)

OCalan said:


> I'm new to the sport here a well, and looking at similar equipment. I've been researching past couple weeks and here's what I got:
> 
> Riser: SF Forged Plus LH
> Limbs: SF Premium Limbs 26# Medium (Was going to go axiom but these were on sale at Lancaster)
> ...


You don't give a DL so no Idea about your choice on arrows.

FYI it's been posted several times that the SF Rest is probably OK as a starter but you will most likely be replacing that and the plunger in short order.
Any string in the proper length will be fine.. medium limbs on a 25" riser = 68" bow. Order a 68"AMO string.. (actual length of the string will be around 64.5" long)

read the sticky thread in my sig for more thoughts on what to include and info on what all the terms mean.

DC


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## stryder1587 (Apr 15, 2014)

dchan said:


> Don't know if they are Platinum plus or maybe Jazz, blues, etc.. According to some of the reviews they are 1716's probably stiffer than I would go but . . .
> 
> Without knowing your specific info DL (AMO) DW (otf) and lots of other info, can't make an informed response to your question about if these are correct for you.
> 
> ...


I just went to my local shop and got my draw length measured using the arm span divide 2.5 method. I'm at about 29.5 draw. He has the same draw length as me and suggested that I actually go for 25" riser and long limbs to get to 70" overall size. He said 26# is a reasonable start weight and I shouldn't go anymore than 30, depends if I'm capable of holding it out with ease that I can still focus on the aiming rather than holding out the weight, makes sense. They have platinum plus arrows all setup but at $110 CAD. He then suggested an alternative, the Win & Win challengers which are full carbon for $90 since they have distributor rights for Win & Win. Anybody heard of these arrows? I can't seem to find much info other than they are a budget priced carbon arrow made to compete with entry level aluminum arrows. Should be lighter, faster, smoother shot but some ranges prohibit carbon for some reason and if they shatter, it's a write off, whereas alu's can be bent back into shape. Does that sound about right?
He mentioned AAE cavalier elite tab with cordovan is being discontinued and people are buying them up quick. He said I should go for an SF bow square because it's accurate being metric vs imperial, whereas other ones weren't lined up accurately. He cautioned against getting the cheap $30 long rods as he personally shot with a cheap SF one for a few years and said it basically had no shock absorption/dampening properties and only served as a weight on the front of your bow. He said they offer the Cartel CX350 and that his boss tested a bunch of stabilizers and this one apparently held up against hitting baseballs with them. Any comments on these guys? What beginner long rod is recommended then? 

Where can I find these carbon impact super clubs, how do they compare to the challengers?
At 4.50 per shaft on Lancaster, DIY seems much cheaper. Even the archery addict site at $74 all ready seems much cheaper than the $110 they are asking for locally. 



OCalan said:


> I'm new to the sport here a well, and looking at similar equipment. I've been researching past couple weeks and here's what I got:
> 
> Riser: SF Forged Plus LH
> Limbs: SF Premium Limbs 26# Medium (Was going to go axiom but these were on sale at Lancaster)
> ...


Glad to see we came up with similar things. I thought about the premium limbs, but figured there'd be little difference for an extra $20-30 and we're expected to grow out of these eventually anyway. 
How did you decide on the carbon impact super clubs? Just price?


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## dchan (Jun 29, 2004)

stryder1587 said:


> I just went to my local shop and got my draw length measured using the arm span divide 2.5 method. I'm at about 29.5 draw. He has the same draw length as me and suggested that I actually go for 25" riser and long limbs to get to 70" overall size. He said 26# is a reasonable start weight and I shouldn't go anymore than 30, depends if I'm capable of holding it out with ease that I can still focus on the aiming rather than holding out the weight, makes sense. They have platinum plus arrows all setup but at $110 CAD. He then suggested an alternative, the Win & Win challengers which are full carbon for $90 since they have distributor rights for Win & Win. Anybody heard of these arrows? I can't seem to find much info other than they are a budget priced carbon arrow made to compete with entry level aluminum arrows. Should be lighter, faster, smoother shot but some ranges prohibit carbon for some reason and if they shatter, it's a write off, whereas alu's can be bent back into shape. Does that sound about right?
> He mentioned AAE cavalier elite tab with cordovan is being discontinued and people are buying them up quick. He said I should go for an SF bow square because it's accurate being metric vs imperial, whereas other ones weren't lined up accurately. He cautioned against getting the cheap $30 long rods as he personally shot with a cheap SF one for a few years and said it basically had no shock absorption/dampening properties and only served as a weight on the front of your bow. He said they offer the Cartel CX350 and that his boss tested a bunch of stabilizers and this one apparently held up against hitting baseballs with them. Any comments on these guys? What beginner long rod is recommended then?
> 
> Where can I find these carbon impact super clubs, how do they compare to the challengers?
> ...


RE Draw Length, Time to find another shop in my opinion.. Glad the shop didn't try to push a 30+ bow on you. reasonable bow length suggestion.

The* least *accurate way to measure your DL is the wingspan method. Best method is drawing a light weight bow with a measuring arrow and get the exact reading..

RE Superclubs. Don't forget that DYI means you need jigs, glues and all the components and the know how to do the building yourself. The Super Club, while about 5.85 per arrow from lancaster, http://www.lancasterarchery.com/carbon-impact-super-club-arrow.html It includes all the components. Nocks, points and are prefletched. 

If you spend 4.00 on a bare shaft .25-.50 per shaft to cut .75 on Nocks, 1.20 on points, .30x3 or .90 on vanes, then a jig to attach the vanes and glue. you get the picture..

Challenge arrows look like they might come in a spine down to 1000 but I don't see anywhere on line that carries anything less than 800 and all of the online presence shops are out of the UK. I have not seen or tried these. Just make sure your shop doesn't try to sell you 600 spine arrows. Those would over spined

DC


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## dchan (Jun 29, 2004)

FYI my Wingspan is 70.5". using the divide by 2.5 I would get 28.2"
My actual AMO DL is just short of 30". If I try to shoot a 28.5" arrow (like the Superclub 10/20 full length) I have about .2" of leeway on the arrow rest..

DC


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## stryder1587 (Apr 15, 2014)

On your advice, I'll go for the super clubs. You said get 15/25 and leave them uncut - how much can I grow with these? I understand as I improve my DL might get a bit longer, and draw weight will go up. How much weight will 15/25's be good until?

Looks like a new option for string. This or the cartels for $2 less? Same strand count, same length at 70 AMO, really doesn't make a different right? The SF has a white/blue colour which would go nicely with the blue forged+ I'm planning to get. 
http://www.lancasterarchery.com/sf-recurve-bow-string.html

Actually, he mentioned the same thing after using the divide 2.5 method. It got me at 28 and he said that doesn't sound right, since he's the same wing span as me and he's at 29.5 so he suggested that I am actually 29.5 and to ignore the divide 2.5 method
Although, we didn't actually hold a bow and arrow and do the exact measurement.

For quivers, when they say there are 2 tubes, 3 tubes. How many arrows does 1 tube hold? Do you have to buy a special belt or can they attach to any regular belt I'd have?

Arm guard, I'm pretty sure it doesn't matter right? As long as it provides protection, I'm thinking AAE or Cartel CX1 or Fivics Band Harness Jell 

Bow squares - all ~$10 which one is recommended? How often does one check brace height? Every setup?

Ok, the serious question, stabilizer long rod. I now have conflicting opinions, shop says don't get cheap stuff. Online reviews say go cheap. How long should it be, 26, 28, 30? Who's right and why?


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## fluke (Aug 12, 2012)

the sf string is on back order so if you are in a hurry... but besides that i actually would have gone for sf myself

for quivers depending on the quiver a tube can hold up to 8 arrows but it will be rather tight. i personally don't put more than 3 per tube.as for the belt some come with one and others come with a small hook that you hook up on your regular belt. i don't know which one you are looking at but you should consider one with some pockets for pens and a small notebook

for armguard my only requisite when looking for one is that it has ventilation (mauritius is a tropical island so quite hot). my $11 beiter does not provide any more protection than my $3 cartel (although it does follow my arm curves better) but really, it's just a piece of plastic that will protect your skin.

for bow square i went for the cheapest cartel available. i check my brace height every once in a while. it's also used to set tiller and nock points.

the long rod thing is an interesting question. some would argue it's just a weight on a stick. i'm actually curious about the answer


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## dchan (Jun 29, 2004)

If you are just starting out and decide you are going to try to shoot 30 and 50M.. I suspect you are going to run out of arrows before you out grow those. Just my experience working with a lot of people. That being said they are probably good up to about 30lbs OTF. A lot depends on the quality of your release, and the rest of your rig.. For some they will still spine stiff at 30lbs..

3-4 arrows per tube for a relaxed fit.. Those Superclubs, you can probably put a doz in each but they will be real tight and will probably curl your vanes if you leave them in there.

How many tubes, 3 is plenty 5 is overkill for me. But to each their own. If you are shooting FITA or NFAA target rounds, you only need 8 or so arrows. You can go back and get more. If you are shooting a long 3d or walking field with unmarked distances you may want to carry 12-24 depending on how good you are. You can't just walk out of a field range to go to your car to get more arrows.

Arm guard, make sure it's comfortable, otherwise you won't like wearing it and you will eventually get "slapped" by the string.. 20lb bow, it's annoying.. 40lb bow OOOOOWWWWWW!!!!!

Bow Square, It's essential. I check my bow every time I set it up. At least the brace height.. If something doesn't sound right or look right, the first tool I reach for is the bow square.. It doesn't have to be the most expensive one but you need one and should use it.

Stabilizer, first one, doesn't need to be too expensive. Since you are going to be shooting with it and it will be yours, don't get the cheapest either. The stabilizer takes quite a bit of bending and flexing so a cheaply made one may break or fail. Odds are you are going to change it eventually. Don't go out and buy the most expensive one or setup either. You may not like the way it "feels". Stabilization has some science to it but a lot is feel as well. The primary thing you need your first stabilizer to do is make the bow roll forward so the upper limb doesn't hit you in the head. The other thing it does is reduce the affect of torque you introduce into the bow with your bow hand.. Other than that, it's a weight on a stick. for length, until you begin to understand what it does and how you like it to affect your shot, I tell people it should be just long enough to be comfortable to rest on the floor while you load your arrows.

We can change length, weight, extensions, etc as you learn more about how it affects your bow and your shot but until then, a single long rod, so that when you rest it on the ground it put's your bow in a place you can comfortably load arrows..


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## Azzurri (Mar 10, 2014)

I like the Super clubs outside because they fly alright, make the distances, and are inexpensive. They are a good progression arrow where you're not destroying $300/dozen arrows every visit to the range. Indoors, you can stack more carbons in a spot when you're on, but I also found the SCs a little unruly shooting 20 yds. I don't think you necessarily want a fast, skinny arrow when you're just learning indoors. 

I use a single spot target so I currently use alloy arrows inside so they can "clink" without constant worry. Two sets.

Quiver, 3-5 tubes. I wouldn't put more than 2-3 alumniums or 3-4 carbons per tube. If you have to shove them to get numbers in the tube, it's defeating the point, because you want the arrows to come back out smooth and almost subconscious.

Armguard as a beginner you want it to stay put and protect. The better you get the more I'd encourage something skinny like the Beiter that offers less protection. Think of it like soccer or football, start with full pads and if you find over time you need less, then back down to something streamlined.

I started out without a stabilizer, bought one with my SF bow, but didn't use it for a few months after. I tried tournaments with and without it and ultimately stuck with it. It's not a beginner need per se but you will probably use something later on. I'd err on the side of low cost with a high rating, because it's unlikely to be the last one you get, and the basic requirement above all for you will probably be sturdiness, ie, doesn't fall apart. Only when you know what you're doing will you start to get good ideas on brands, types, weights, lengths, balance, etc. I wouldn't spend more than $50-100 on a first one and I would only get the long bar and not the v.


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## c365 (May 15, 2013)

When your resting the few moments between shots, contemplating your form etc., resting the bow on the stab is very comfortable.


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## OCalan (May 6, 2014)

dchan said:


> You don't give a DL so no Idea about your choice on arrows.
> 
> FYI it's been posted several times that the SF Rest is probably OK as a starter but you will most likely be replacing that and the plunger in short order.
> Any string in the proper length will be fine.. medium limbs on a 25" riser = 68" bow. Order a 68"AMO string.. (actual length of the string will be around 64.5" long)
> ...


I have a 28.5" draw length measured. So I believe the 15/25 at full length was more than enough for me. Thank you so much for the helpful info.


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## OCalan (May 6, 2014)

stryder1587 said:


> I just went to my local shop and got my draw length measured using the arm span divide 2.5 method. I'm at about 29.5 draw. He has the same draw length as me and suggested that I actually go for 25" riser and long limbs to get to 70" overall size. He said 26# is a reasonable start weight and I shouldn't go anymore than 30, depends if I'm capable of holding it out with ease that I can still focus on the aiming rather than holding out the weight, makes sense. They have platinum plus arrows all setup but at $110 CAD. He then suggested an alternative, the Win & Win challengers which are full carbon for $90 since they have distributor rights for Win & Win. Anybody heard of these arrows? I can't seem to find much info other than they are a budget priced carbon arrow made to compete with entry level aluminum arrows. Should be lighter, faster, smoother shot but some ranges prohibit carbon for some reason and if they shatter, it's a write off, whereas alu's can be bent back into shape. Does that sound about right?
> He mentioned AAE cavalier elite tab with cordovan is being discontinued and people are buying them up quick. He said I should go for an SF bow square because it's accurate being metric vs imperial, whereas other ones weren't lined up accurately. He cautioned against getting the cheap $30 long rods as he personally shot with a cheap SF one for a few years and said it basically had no shock absorption/dampening properties and only served as a weight on the front of your bow. He said they offer the Cartel CX350 and that his boss tested a bunch of stabilizers and this one apparently held up against hitting baseballs with them. Any comments on these guys? What beginner long rod is recommended then?
> 
> Where can I find these carbon impact super clubs, how do they compare to the challengers?
> ...


I went with the carbon impact super clubs for same reason dchan mentioned. Don't need to worry about fletching, buying nocks, points, etc. Everything is already included, just need to glue on the points from what I know. A dozen runs about $70+ship from lancaster. The easton platinum plus was about $80+ship from addicted to archery which assembles the arrow for you, so really up to you. From what I read both arrows are a good choice. Also my local club guys all had good stuff to say about the CI super clubs.


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## dchan (Jun 29, 2004)

OCalan said:


> I have a 28.5" draw length measured. So I believe the 15/25 at full length was more than enough for me. Thank you so much for the helpful info.


Yup. you'll be close enough in spine and length for now. Now go out and shoot!

DC


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## stryder1587 (Apr 15, 2014)

fluke said:


> the sf string is on back order so if you are in a hurry... but besides that i actually would have gone for sf myself
> 
> for quivers depending on the quiver a tube can hold up to 8 arrows but it will be rather tight. i personally don't put more than 3 per tube.as for the belt some come with one and others come with a small hook that you hook up on your regular belt. i don't know which one you are looking at but you should consider one with some pockets for pens and a small notebook
> 
> ...


SF string it is. 

I'm considering this quiver: http://www.lancasterarchery.com/sf-premium-quiver.html
4 arrows per tube, 3 tubes, looks like it's got a zippered pocket for that notepad/pen - you guys record shooting stats on these?

Arm guard, I'm deciding on this: http://www.lancasterarchery.com/fivics-band-harness-jell-armguard.html
Looks nice and I like how it has better contour to your arm than solid plastic. 

Going to get this bow square: http://www.lancasterarchery.com/cartel-cr606-t-guage-bow-square.html
Cheap, I'm sure it'll get the job done. 




dchan said:


> If you are just starting out and decide you are going to try to shoot 30 and 50M.. I suspect you are going to run out of arrows before you out grow those. Just my experience working with a lot of people. That being said they are probably good up to about 30lbs OTF. A lot depends on the quality of your release, and the rest of your rig.. For some they will still spine stiff at 30lbs..
> 
> 3-4 arrows per tube for a relaxed fit.. Those Superclubs, you can probably put a doz in each but they will be real tight and will probably curl your vanes if you leave them in there.
> 
> ...


I'll run out as in they will break before that happens?

I've felt the slap, I definitely need an armguard, the rubber gel I listed sounds like a comfortable choice.

I just read this article here on stabilizer setup. 
http://www.freewebs.com/johnske/index.htm#140501309

I guess I don't care so much about the vibration as much as I care about getting stability as I aim. So longer with more weight (up to whatever I can handle) would be ideal. Some people here on archery talk recommended this but I don't think I need a full set. 
http://www.lancasterarchery.com/crown-carbon-stabilizer-set.html

So here are 3 I'm considering 
http://www.lancasterarchery.com/w-w-sebastian-flute-axiom-plus-stabilizer.html
http://www.lancasterarchery.com/cartel-supreme-cx-250-long-stabilizer.html
http://www.lancasterarchery.com/cartel-midas-mps-300-long-stabilizer.html
Leaning towards the Midas cause it's heavier and I prefer the colours. 
What would you guys choose?


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## dchan (Jun 29, 2004)

If you are reasonable with your distances they will last longer. If you are like most recreational archers, you may bend to peer pressure and try to shoot a longer distance than you are ready for. Then you will break or lose a few.


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## fluke (Aug 12, 2012)

shooting stats, sight marks, cute girls' number, notebooks are always useful

i used the decut for a while and liked it very much and if you are looking for a full stab system i highly recommend it. however yes you don't actually need a full set now (but still nice to have  )

if you like the midas and can afford it then get it  a friend has one and looks pretty good


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## stryder1587 (Apr 15, 2014)

dchan said:


> If you are reasonable with your distances they will last longer. If you are like most recreational archers, you may bend to peer pressure and try to shoot a longer distance than you are ready for. Then you will break or lose a few.


What's a reasonable distance to start practicing? The course I finished, we shot inside a gym from one end of the basketball court to the other. Wikipedia says thats 74 ft or 22 m

After all the recommendations, finalized list:
Riser: SF Forged+
Limbs: Long SF Axiom+ 26#
String: SF Recurve Bow String 70" AMO 16 Strand
Stringer: Cartel bow stringer
Rest: 3 Hoyt super rests
Quiver: SF Premium Quiver
Stand: SF Axiom Aluminum bow stand
Arrow: Carbon impact super clubs 15/25 uncut
Tab: AAE Elite finger tab cordovan face large
Arm guard: Fivics Band Harness Jel armguard
Stab: Cartel Midas MPS300 Long Stabilizer 30"
Bow Square: Cartel CR606 T-gauge bow square

You guys mentioned the super clubs come with points but aren't glued in? What type of glue do I need, or are they screw ins?

My outdoor range is here http://www.archerytoronto.ca/Toronto-Archery-Range.html
The butts are made of natural tentest. I'm thinking of using this pin. Shouldn't have any problems tacking into that material right?
http://www.lancasterarchery.com/bob-s-archery-target-pin-short.html

For target faces, there's the 40, 60, 80, 122cm. I know 122 is Olympic, so 70m which is probably too far for my skill level and bow to handle. 

I see on Wiki that it goes:
40 cm (18 m FITA Indoor)
60 cm (25 m FITA Indoor)
80 cm (30 m and 50m FITA)
122 cm (70 m and 90m FITA)

Maybe I should get a few 60cm and a few 80cm?

Between JVD reinforced vs Maple leaf waterproof vs Fivics outdoor face, which ones can take the most shots/most durable/best bang for buck?
Realistically, even though I'm shooting outdoors, if it starts to rain, I'll probably call it a day and take down my stuff. Will the non-water proof faces get completely ruined by water, like the paper will simply fall apart? If that's the case, I'll be cautious and just get the outdoor/waterproof versions so I don't completely lose my target face. 
How many shots do you guys typically take in say an hour of practice? How many shots will it take before a face is pretty much a write off? How many would you suggest that I get? Around 10 maybe? I can get them at my local shop too, but I'm sure it's going to cost me more than at Lancasters. Since the shipping is free, might as well grab a decent number now.


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## c365 (May 15, 2013)

I think dchan means a distance you can keep them well within the bale, whatever that distance is for you.


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## dchan (Jun 29, 2004)

That list looks reasonable.

re: superclubs points, I use the blue hotmelt made by Bohning. Recommendation from Carbon Impact is 2 part epoxy, (longer set time is more durable, shorter set time is more brittle) however epoxy is permanent.

RE target pins, As a beginner I would recommend you get plastic or wood pins until you almost never miss the target face.. Seems like such a small thing to hit but it happens and arrows don't like hitting steel hard items.
Long golf tee's work. I really like the Saunders pins and as a club we do hit them from time to time. The arrow always wins. In soft hay bales however they don't stick well. for soft hay bales, use disposable bamboo chopsticks..

re: target faces If you are still learning and just practicing, ie don't need official scoring size and not putting up 1-2" groups, I REALLY am now sold on the Whitetail Infinity Target faces
It's neoprene with fabric on one face. Totally waterproof. you can scrub them with a brush if they get dirty (don't drop them on the dirt!) We have 5 of these for our first time lessons and the first ones we got are now going on 30+ sessions. 2-4 people shooting at them from 10M so lots of hits.. and they are still in very good shape. I'll take a picture this weekend. Lancaster only carries the 80cm but since you are just starting to shoot outdoors it would be a great thing to start with. If you are not pounding one spot they should last a long time. They are 40.00 but if we were shooting the maple leaf waterproofs which seem to hold up the best, we would have gone through over 20 of those. Paper unless glued on cardboard is good for one session. If you call Whitetail directly, they also have 40cm, 60cm, and centers for 122cm. These are not "legal" for tournament scoring but they do hold up WAY better than any paper or vinyl target we have tried and are great for practicing.

Caveat on the Infinity targets, Make sure your arrows don't have ridges or burrs. (like arrows with points that overhang the shaft) those will tear up these targets.. NO BROAD HEADS, and sharper arrows seem to work best (those carbon impacts do real well). Someone tried to shoot some of those round nose fiberglass arrows at one of our infinity targets and several just bounced off, others tore some pretty big chunks out of the neoprene. Not going to let that happen again.


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## dchan (Jun 29, 2004)

c365 said:


> I think dchan means a distance you can keep them well within the bale, whatever that distance is for you.


exactly. 

In other words, if you can't hit the target face consistently at 30M, regardless of what size face you are shooting at, MOVE CLOSER! It's that simple.. 

No reason to move back the 20M between 30 and 50, or even 18 and 25. If you are doing well at 18, go to 23M see where the arrows hit, doing well there, then 25M, etc.. The only reason to practice the longer distances or get sight marks is if you are actually working towards a tournament or achievement shoot but why destroy a bunch of arrows getting there?


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## dchan (Jun 29, 2004)

Turns out American Whitetail does make a 122CM Infinity Full target. knowing how much the 80cm weighs I bet that one is pretty heavy.
website

and they do give club discounts if you call them with your club info.

DC


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## Azzurri (Mar 10, 2014)

I bought a stack of 40 cm NFAA target faces I use for practice out to 50. bought a big 144 but find I don't use it because 70m here has it on the bale already, and it looks like an ordeal to tack up. Until you get pretty good I don't think knowing a low or wide shot would be a FITA 3 helps much. You're just trying to hit the bale and tighten the group.

Look at the bale composition at your range and think about what would poke the surface and stay in best. I bought plastic screws and found they work well in used holes but can be tough to initially pierce the plastic bale cover with.

I think cautious and adventurous people can end up at the same spot in terms of distance shooting. There are methodical people who won't progress out until they achieve a score or group at each post. There are adventurous people who push out to see how far they can go. I started adventurous but have dialed in to work on quality. You may destroy more arrows in the process of determining you need to come back, but there is some value in enthusiasm tempered by a reality check, and I think shanking some shots has a clarifying effect in terms of working on form that a low point shot in indoor lacks. You miss a bale and know why, you're going to work to fix it. Having a goal beyond your immediate grasp, or a target that challenges you to group, can push you along. My two cents.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

> I think shanking some shots has a clarifying effect in terms of working on form that a low point shot in indoor lacks.


Quote of the day right there.


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## dchan (Jun 29, 2004)

limbwalker said:


> Quote of the day right there.


Hah! One time. Great. 3-4 times, don't scream at me for installing our bales with steel or wood frames.


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## stryder1587 (Apr 15, 2014)

dchan said:


> That list looks reasonable.
> 
> re: superclubs points, I use the blue hotmelt made by Bohning. Recommendation from Carbon Impact is 2 part epoxy, (longer set time is more durable, shorter set time is more brittle) however epoxy is permanent.
> 
> ...


I'll get that glue too. 

Let me understand something here, the whitetails aren't target butts that actually stop arrows right? They are just faces (which are not tournament legal) to pin on top of an actual target butt, but apparently will last much longer than buying any of the paper faces (which are tournament legal). So since I'm not aiming for any tournament, might as well save money and get this. Do I need 4 of those Saunder's pins to hold this up?


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## dchan (Jun 29, 2004)

stryder1587 said:


> I'll get that glue too.
> 
> Let me understand something here, the whitetails aren't target butts that actually stop arrows right? They are just faces (which are not tournament legal) to pin on top of an actual target butt, but apparently will last much longer than buying any of the paper faces (which are tournament legal). So since I'm not aiming for any tournament, might as well save money and get this. Do I need 4 of those Saunder's pins to hold this up?



Correct, it's a target face to put on the bale.. The 80cm target requires 3 pins.. (3 grommet holes across the top) but if you are ordering pins anyway, they are cheap enough. get a few extra.

And just because they are not tournament legal, they will train you to shoot in a tournament. You just can't use them for a tournament.


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## stryder1587 (Apr 15, 2014)

Just thought maybe I should get a case to protect equipment from rubbing against each other while transporting in my car trunk. What's a cheap durable bag/case recommendation?


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## dchan (Jun 29, 2004)

Any cloth, sleeve, bags will work well if you are just thinking about transporting and not carrying everything together but the Legend bags are hard to beat.


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## fluke (Aug 12, 2012)

i know some people use soccer socks as sleeves


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## dchan (Jun 29, 2004)

Small fleece blanket, just roll up the riser/limbs into the blanket.

Then a document tube from a place like Daiso for your arrows.. Don't know if there is a Daiso in or near Toronto but here in SF the tubes were 3.00 each. Not super heavy duty but they did the job for the right price..


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## Azzurri (Mar 10, 2014)

stryder1587 said:


> Just thought maybe I should get a case to protect equipment from rubbing against each other while transporting in my car trunk. What's a cheap durable bag/case recommendation?


Depends on what "transporting" "is." A backpack will offer some level of protection and organization for leaving the gear someplace or driving. I use Legend's entry level backpack, and I've had it since Xmas without event to use for practice and tournaments in Texas and nearby states. If you want a higher degree of protection or intend to fly, people would probably suggest a hardcase. I bought an SKB for my recent air trip, but people were pushing a Pelican 1700 as well. People pointed out on the hardcase to be mindful of the weight and dimensions because they may be oversize for baggage purposes.

If all you're doing is driving to the local range and tournaments nearby, a backpack will probably fulfill the need. I thought it was great for getting all my items in one bag in an organized fashion. If you do it right, setup is speeded up and you know where things are.

If you use the hard case you either need to get the foam cut just right for the riser or use some sort of wrap as is being suggested. The foam is apparently usually pre-cut right for the accessories but not so much the riser. A hardcase also won't necessarily hold as much, even though it will protect it better.


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## Azzurri (Mar 10, 2014)

I'd also suggest a pair of Allen wrench sets (cheap, hardware store, metric and imperial) for tuning and tightening unruly items. And if you get more than one set of arrows for different purposes I've gotten different tubes for each set.


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## Azzurri (Mar 10, 2014)

Last thought: one spare string, nocked and ready. If you have some sort of failure -- and I had one just last weekend -- a replacement (or someone who can fix one) is the difference between game over vs. a quick switch and back in bid-ness.


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## stryder1587 (Apr 15, 2014)

I'm not doing tournaments or anything yet, so I'm not even sure the string I get will be perfect, I'll just stick with one for now. On your comment though, just made me remember about the string nock. I don't have those yet!

There's a saunders nok set which has 1 review and a bunch of kisser buttons. What's the difference, what should I get to fit the SF string 16 strand.


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## Azzurri (Mar 10, 2014)

I got the "black" size brass ones for my string, I'd have someone else do the measurement and install to ensure proper position. They might even have the nocks at the shop.

I do the nose-chin thing on anchor but I couldn't tell you about kisser buttons, don't use em.


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## dchan (Jun 29, 2004)

If you get a saunders or other crimp on, you will probably need to borrow or purchase a crimper.
The size you want is "black" for the saunders.

For a simple tied on nock.


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## stryder1587 (Apr 15, 2014)

K i'll get 1 of the black Saunders noks and I don't need a kisser button, realized it's just an anchor point which many archers don't even use. 

So I'm thinking this for the case: 
http://www.lancasterarchery.com/w-w-sebastian-flute-riser-and-limbs-soft-case.html
I asked the online support guy and he says there's extra room for arm guard, tab, stand etc.

They are out of stock on the AAE Cavalier Elite Tab with Cordovan face in large size for right hand. Only small and xl left. I'm thinking of going with the Cartel Smart Finger Tab since it's also cordovan and only $20. The alternative is the Soma Saker I which seems really popular but quite pricey at $52.99
What do you guys think, worth the difference? Or just try out the Cartel which is supposed to be a replica of the AAE Elite just without the brand name.


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## c365 (May 15, 2013)

Take a look at the SF Tab, mine has a nice thick piece of cordovan.


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## c365 (May 15, 2013)

stryder1587 said:


> So I'm thinking this for the case:
> http://www.lancasterarchery.com/w-w-sebastian-flute-riser-and-limbs-soft-case.html
> I asked the online support guy and he says there's extra room for arm guard, tab, stand etc.


I have that case. Mine just has two large compartments, yes you could fit more into it but it'll be messy and scratchy . A stand would knock against the limb/riser etc. Also since it has two, one big compartments, you need to get separate limb covers otherwise they too will knock/rub against each other.

You also need to put a small cap or cover on the end of the plunger, it will wear a hole though the case material. (unless you take the plunger off)


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## fluke (Aug 12, 2012)

it's more of a pouch than a case. it should protect your limbs and riser but not much more. i guess you could squeeze a tab and an armguard in too but you don't really want them rubbing against you limbs during transport. if i had that pouch i'd use it with a regular backpack to haul everything else (bowstand included). i actually have one of those pouch velcro'd in my backpack

about nocks. i personally prefer tied nocks. they tend to be kinder on the tabs' leather

about the tabs, they might be worth the difference if you knew what you are looking for in a tab  but as it is right now i think the cartel tab will be just fine


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## Azzurri (Mar 10, 2014)

I use something like this, you can put everything in its own compartment, some level of protection for transport:

http://www.lancasterarchery.com/legend-streamline-backpack.html

Before that I had something like this:

http://www.lancasterarchery.com/western-rec-run-a-bout-takedown-recurve-case-black.html

In theory this carries everything but I would routinely not be able to find items I thought I packed, and it doesn't protect the items from each other. When I got frustrated with it-- showed up to a tournament without an armguard -- I bought the backpack.


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## stryder1587 (Apr 15, 2014)

c365 said:


> Take a look at the SF Tab, mine has a nice thick piece of cordovan.


 Not sold on Lancaster though, I'm hoping to just get it all in one batch for free shipping. 



c365 said:


> I have that case. Mine just has two large compartments, yes you could fit more into it but it'll be messy and scratchy . A stand would knock against the limb/riser etc. Also since it has two, one big compartments, you need to get separate limb covers otherwise they too will knock/rub against each other.
> 
> You also need to put a small cap or cover on the end of the plunger, it will wear a hole though the case material. (unless you take the plunger off)


The review said the limbs pocket had a limb sleeve to prevent the limbs from rubbing against each other. Also that the case had a handle. Is yours not like that? Sounds like you're not too fond of this case, is there something a bit better but not as costly as the legend backpack. 



fluke said:


> it's more of a pouch than a case. it should protect your limbs and riser but not much more. i guess you could squeeze a tab and an armguard in too but you don't really want them rubbing against you limbs during transport. if i had that pouch i'd use it with a regular backpack to haul everything else (bowstand included). i actually have one of those pouch velcro'd in my backpack
> 
> about nocks. i personally prefer tied nocks. they tend to be kinder on the tabs' leather
> 
> about the tabs, they might be worth the difference if you knew what you are looking for in a tab  but as it is right now i think the cartel tab will be just fine


Yea, I can throw all the accessories in my gym bag along with the stand, maybe just wrap it in a towel or something. 

Please tell me more about tied nocks. That would be like buying serving like in the video dchan referenced? What type of serving or material do you use to tie your nocks?



Azzurri said:


> I use something like this, you can put everything in its own compartment, some level of protection for transport:
> 
> http://www.lancasterarchery.com/legend-streamline-backpack.html
> 
> ...


I'm sure the legend backpack is convenient and all, but $60 and $8 oversized charge seems quite expensive to me. There must be more affordable options to protect the equipment. That western case, did it separate riser, limbs, and have pockets for all the other things like stabs etc.


Also, I don't have a Daiso in Toronto unfortunately. Any other place that sells cheap tubes for holding arrows?


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## dchan (Jun 29, 2004)

re: tied on nocks,

You can use just about any heavy thread. Heck even a couple layers of dental floss works. and yes I've done that in a pinch since I always have dental floss in my archery quiver..

But if you have serving material, use it. 

Good substitute would be fine braided fishing line if you have any of that.


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## Azzurri (Mar 10, 2014)

The low end bow cases are basically two flap sides that zip together, no separators. Some of the cases of that type may have pockets for limbs or the like. I used something like that for a few months at first, and it will handle aspects of the job.

One thing you need to factor in is how the arrows will be carried. I started out storing and transporting (as well as competing with) the arrows in the quiver. But if you lay that down they can fall out. An arrow tube came with the backpack and that's where I switched to keeping the arrows (as well as the stabilizer, which is low end and something I don't mind getting beat up a little). Regardless of where you come out on the bow bag you should consider how you want to carry your arrows, even if it's just in the quiver or some sort of homemade container. Arrows can be a touchy thing and their "health" can affect your shooting.


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## jegeig (Dec 1, 2013)

stryder1587 said:


> The review said the limbs pocket had a limb sleeve to prevent the limbs from rubbing against each other. Also that the case had a handle. Is yours not like that? Sounds like you're not too fond of this case, is there something a bit better but not as costly as the legend backpack.


I wrote that review on Lancaster and should add that it was a phone order. Although I used the item number from the website it's possible I got something different for whatever reason. The picture does not match what I received. 

Although I like the case for my riser, limbs, string, and stringer, I am finding myself wanting something that fits more gear and tools since I added a sight and stabilizer. 

Just something to consider. Don't expect that case to hold everything you need.


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## yugami (Dec 10, 2013)

I use the W&W case you're looking at, but use it in a backpack.

I bought the legend archery pack and upgraded to a slightly more expensive Aurora pack later.

A pack with arrow tube makes it much easier to transport tab, string, stab, extra points.. whatever extra bits you'll be carrying around. Which seems to add up over time.


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## mrcina (Dec 2, 2013)

What's better - new SF Premium plus or Cartel Fantom?


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## stryder1587 (Apr 15, 2014)

Hi Guys, 

My equipment is coming in batches since some stuff is backordered. If I change to a different arm guard and quiver that's currently in stock, I can probably get them to ship by June 13th instead of June 30th. 

Waiting on these 2 items: 
SF Premium Quiver with Belt Sebastian Flute -Blue-Right Hand	1	Jun 30, 2014
Fivics Harness Jell Armguard Blue- 1	Jun 24, 2014

http://www.lancasterarchery.com/sho...ards.html?archery_type=10&dir=asc&order=price
http://www.lancasterarchery.com/sho...vers.html?archery_type=10&dir=asc&order=price

I know these items don't really matter since they all function the same and won't affect shooting performance. What are some good alternatives around the same price range from those links? Cartel CX-1 Armguard, AAE Armguard? X-Spot Flare Target Quiver? Bohning Adult Target Quiver? Fivics Miracle 300 Target Quiver?


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## larry tom (Aug 16, 2012)

stryder1587 said:


> Also, I don't have a Daiso in Toronto unfortunately. Any other place that sells cheap tubes for holding arrows?


Stryder, sorry for jumping in so late, but I see that no one has answered your question about round mailing/document tubes. Most postal service centers should have them (here in the US that would be FedEx or UPS). That's were I bought mine. You could also try an office supply store, or a art supply/drafting supply store. Larry T.


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