# Things that shooters expect at field shoots



## njshadowwalker (Aug 14, 2004)

Rattleman said:


> Ok what do you all expect to have when you go to a field shoot.
> 
> I will start out with my list.
> 1) Practice area with NEW targets.
> ...


A nice long practice range. 50-60 yards would be ok. 30 isnt enough. Well cut trails. Not like perfect walking but what I mean is no crap in the way on the fans that your arrows could hit in route to the targets. Couple courses this year I had to walk out and clear my shooting lane and even hang the targets they forgot to p0ut up! Thats just nonsense. 

Other then that... Most clubs here have a cooler or fridge with drinks and such and they all have a kitchen for a quick bite before or after your done.


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## WrongdayJ (May 22, 2008)

Rattleman said:


> . . .
> 
> 1) Practice area with NEW targets.
> 2) Cleared shooting lanes and well marked shooting stakes.
> ...


I agree with everything on this list except food and drink. I normally bring my own and don't really expect the range to provide it or sell it. If they do then that is nice, but it's a luxury indeed. 

One thing I would add is trash cans. All too often there are not nearly enough trash cans on any Field course I have ever been on. I almost always end up with pockets full of trash that I've picked up off the course and have to carry around because there is nowhere to toss it.


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## Unclegus (May 27, 2003)

Ed, I expect no one to turn a field face upside down ukey:....Nice weather too....


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## TNMAN (Oct 6, 2009)

*things you expect*

Don't always expect it, but sure like it better when I don't hear the sound of vanes hitting paper, and constantly having to push arrows back thru the face before scoring. :thumbs_do


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## Jbird (May 21, 2002)

*Food on the Range*

We were spoiled shooting in New England where there was always hot food available at the half. Usually hamburgers and hot dogs cooked on the grill.
Now that we are here in Arkansas and shooting the Texas series of shoots it
is a little different. We shot at Bossier City (Red River Bowmen) this weekend and there was no food available. I asked about it and they said that turnouts are so unpredictable that they hated taking the chance on all the food going to waste. This is understandable and now that we know that it is not automatic we will check ahead of time and provide our own if necessary.
It would be a good idea for shoot management to say on their website/shoot calendar if food will be available.


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## Rattleman (Jul 6, 2004)

Unclegus said:


> Ed, I expect no one to turn a field face upside down ukey:....Nice weather too....


Now John you know that is not the Range officials job. That job belongs to special achers


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

njshadowwalker said:


> A nice long practice range. 50-60 yards would be ok. 30 isnt enough. Well cut trails. Not like perfect walking but what I mean is no crap in the way on the fans that your arrows could hit in route to the targets. Couple courses this year I had to walk out and clear my shooting lane and even hang the targets they forgot to p0ut up! Thats just nonsense.
> 
> Other then that... Most clubs here have a cooler or fridge with drinks and such and they all have a kitchen for a quick bite before or after your done.


All of the clubs around here have practice ranges at least to 60yds and most go out to 80.  But clear lanes is a biggie. Though that is very rarely....actually I have only had that happen ONCE in Md in the past 4+ years. 

Water on the course is a must.....not a ton. But there needs to be water. I bring my own on course goodies.....and I hate taking a "stop" at the halfway point.




WrongdayJ said:


> One thing I would add is trash cans. All too often there are not nearly enough trash cans on any Field course I have ever been on. I almost always end up with pockets full of trash that I've picked up off the course and have to carry around because there is nowhere to toss it.


Trash cans are a must. It amazes me how many ranges don't have trash cans anyplace :noidea: 



TNMAN said:


> Don't always expect it, but sure like it better when I don't hear the sound of vanes hitting paper, and constantly having to push arrows back thru the face before scoring. :thumbs_do


Yep that sucks.....I don't worry about it tearing up my vanes really at all. My FF take one heck of a beating. I probably shot everyone of the 14 Nano's I have left from last year sunk to the nock or beyond at least 100 times.....I have had to redo about 8 of them....2 I shot holes in and 3 I tore the wrap. Only 2 did I redo partially because of pass thrus. But it is a super pain in the butt.....and not everyone shoots what I shoot nor does everyone fletch as good as some do so they loose them.




Jbird said:


> We were spoiled shooting in New England where there was always hot food available at the half. Usually hamburgers and hot dogs cooked on the grill.
> Now that we are here in Arkansas and shooting the Texas series of shoots it
> is a little different. We shot at Bossier City (Red River Bowmen) this weekend and there was no food available. I asked about it and they said that turnouts are so unpredictable that they hated taking the chance on all the food going to waste. This is understandable and now that we know that it is not automatic we will check ahead of time and provide our own if necessary.
> It would be a good idea for shoot management to say on their website/shoot calendar if food will be available.


That's what it's like here. You don't have to cook a feast but if people come cook something. If they don't show then don't cook.....you don't waste anything. 

But for me I think just about any range in Md covers my list Ed.....other then trash cans.....


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## Scott.Barrett (Oct 26, 2008)

I'd like the range to test the bales to see if they can hold today's skinny arrows....


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## bowhunter_va_28 (Apr 28, 2003)

- fewer excuses and less whining than 3D.
- Archers enjoying themselves and socializing while showing respect to others on the course.
- an appreciation for what the club provides, because most field archers are active members at one or more local clubs and understand what it takes to keep one running


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## montigre (Oct 13, 2008)

*What I'd like to see*

Sufficient practice areas with fresh targets
Water on range
Trash containers on range
Cleared trails between targets
Clearly marked shooting stakes
Targets not prone to pass throughs
Fresh targets on day 2 of a 2-day shoot
Overhead brush fully cleared from shootng lanes
:smile:


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## pennysdad (Sep 26, 2004)

*Bow hangers!*

Bow hangers, at each target. Ones that will handle, at least 4 bows, without meshing them together. Hooks that will not mar your limbs, like rusty nails.


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## Hinkelmonster (Oct 25, 2004)

Mulitple faces on all 50cm targets (NO EXCEPTIONS)

Ability to shoot at least 2 archers wide at every stake on every target

Bow hangers are a nice touch


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## Indianbullet (Jan 18, 2003)

An occasional Out House is nice, and all of the above


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## Bobmuley (Jan 14, 2004)

I don't expect much....

-Safe layout
-Targets that are scorable
-Butts that don't ruin $20 arrows
-Latrine


I go to shoot, not to be taken care of...


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## The Swami (Jan 16, 2008)

Bobmuley said:


> I don't expect much....
> 
> -Safe layout
> -Targets that are scorable
> ...


Same here.


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## mag41vance (Mar 13, 2008)

Bobmuley said:


> I don't expect much....
> 
> -Safe layout
> -Targets that are scorable
> ...


Exactly.
Concise & to the point. Thanks Bob. :shade:
We need more preachers like you!


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## McCann (Feb 27, 2005)

regrettably the water on the course is becoming more of an issue. I am a Chef at a Country Club. it has been a tradition that there is always water on the course, I used to play golf on public courses there was almost always water on the courses. However, a few years ago several courses around the country were sued because the water was deemed unsafe. Granted in only one of the lawsuits that i remember did someone get sick but after that the number of water jugs on courses plummeted. many 3D venues, yea yea yea don't start its the only active venue in my area, have totally elimiated the jugs and if there is another spat of lawsuits i would expect more insurance companies to require the elimation of water jugs. 

that is why when i am able to go to a shoot i always carry my own stash.


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## psargeant (Aug 1, 2004)

mag41vance said:


> Exactly.
> Concise & to the point. Thanks Bob. :shade:
> We need more preachers like you!


:nod: anything more than that is just a bonus...That said, my course is probably the most "spartan" around here...I do try to put out water and to have food available when we host a shoot though...


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## treaton (Jul 21, 2006)

*from the other perspective*



Rattleman said:


> Ok what do you all expect to have when you go to a field shoot.
> 
> I will start out with my list.
> 1) Practice area with NEW targets.
> ...


From the perspective of one who sets up a field range and holds tournaments about once a month for my enjoyment and the enjoyment of my friends.....
_1) Practice area with NEW targets_
_4) new targets on the range _ 
While the range gets new targets for every shoot, the practice range gets new "hand-me-downs." I can save the cost of new targets for the practice range by using targets from the range that still have a lot of use left in them. We've never had enough shooters in one day to consider back-up targets. Would be glad to have that problem.
_2) Cleared shooting lanes and well marked shooting stakes._ This requires a trip around the range a few days before the shoot with tree pruners and touch-up marker paint. I usually have a mental note about the spots that need attention and seldom spend more than 30 minutes here.
_3) water on the range_ An ice chest with a bag of ice and bottled water at the half way point is standard practice here.
_5) Well marked trails on the course._ I take pride when a new shooter tells me he had no trouble finding his way around the course the first time.
_6) food service at the range_ I enjoy a burger at the halfway point and it is no trouble to throw a few more on the grill. Glad to have you join me.
_Trash cans on the range_ It is easier for me to just ride the range after a shoot and pick up trash than try to maintain trash cans in a pasture with nosey cows. I do appreciate it when smokers don't leave any trace of their habit.
_Targets not prone to pass throughs_ Not a problem so far, but you X10 shooters are going to have to let me know when and where a problem arises.
_Bow hangers, at each target._ 
Bow hangers and benches at every target. I like to sit while I wait for others to shoot, too.
_Multiple faces on all 50cm targets_ Common practice. People seem to get tired of busted nocks and trashed arrows after a while.
_Ability to shoot at least 2 archers wide at every stake on every target_ We can shoot four across on most targets.
_An occasional Out House is nice_ One at the clubhouse and one on the course...something you appreciate more and more as you get older.
_Safe layout_ Number 1 priority


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## Rattleman (Jul 6, 2004)

Randy thanks for reminding me about the multiple faces on the mid range targets. It seems that a few older archers and those that don't shoot tight groups feel that multiple targets are a waste of time and if an occasional arrow is busted or kissed out...well, that is part of archery. I can see this at a tourney that means something but not at a local shoot. A couple of years ago I shot with Hinky, CJ and Tom C. on a 14F/14H. This northern MD. club only uses 1 face on mid range targets. Tom and I shot 1st on the field side and Randy and CJ shot behind us. Well on the mid range targets those guys just killed my stuff. I lost 6 shafts in 14 targets due to crush injuries. Gets pretty expensive when you are shooting for nothing but a good day with friends. So come on guys paste up a few extra faces and put them out on the range. You will make the archers happier and thus they will return if they can come out and play with minimum damage. My club always uses multiple faces on the mid range targets. They only cost a few pennies each but they more then make up for the arrows saved. After the shoot those targets are brought in and used on our everyday practice range.


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## brtesite (May 24, 2002)

Hinkelmonster said:


> Mulitple faces on all 50cm targets (NO EXCEPTIONS)
> 
> Ability to shoot at least 2 archers wide at every stake on every target
> 
> Bow hangers are a nice touch


I remember a course that you could shoot 4 across at all targets, & you should hear the complaints.


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## Rattleman (Jul 6, 2004)

brtesite said:


> I remember a course that you could shoot 4 across at all targets, & you should hear the complaints.


Could is the key word here Mike. Not required


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## Jbird (May 21, 2002)

*Four Across*



brtesite said:


> I remember a course that you could shoot 4 across at all targets, & you should hear the complaints.


Being able to shoot 4 across and being forced to and herded like cattle when every one was moving along nicely and finishing early is two different things. Hopefully shoot management got the message from the comments.

Jbird


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## Unclegus (May 27, 2003)

AMEN
I'm not going to get into rehashing that fiasco, although I still have a bad taste in my mouth even almost a year later. :angry: I just hope that some people did get the message loud and clear. 
.


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## Unclegus (May 27, 2003)

AMEN
I'm not going to get into rehashing that fiasco, although I still have a bad taste in my mouth even almost a year later. :angry: I just hope that some people did get the message loud and clear. If I wanted to spend a lot of time and money, get hurried and constantly aggrivated, I'd get married again. ukey:
.


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## LoneEagle0607 (Jan 15, 2008)

treaton said:


> From the perspective of one who sets up a field range and holds tournaments about once a month for my enjoyment and the enjoyment of my friends.....
> _1) Practice area with NEW targets_
> _4) new targets on the range _
> While the range gets new targets for every shoot, the practice range gets new "hand-me-downs." I can save the cost of new targets for the practice range by using targets from the range that still have a lot of use left in them. We've never had enough shooters in one day to consider back-up targets. Would be glad to have that problem.
> ...


Glad to see you jumped in on this one. After all, you do run the Field Archery Hilton Moo-tel:smile: For those of you who haven't been to Treaton's place it's definitely a GREAT place to shoot. DCWC is a close 2nd.


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## Hinkelmonster (Oct 25, 2004)

The multiple faces is my biggest issue lately while shooting field.

PROS:easier to aim, less kiss outs, less damage to nocks, pins, bushings, vanes and shafts, but what about less wear and tear on targets. 2 faces spreads out the damage as well

CONS: $.25/target * 10 =$2.50........how much are nocks these days?


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## deadlyjest (Mar 30, 2009)

*Good luck*

Hinky,

I would invite you to the Coal Train Shoot but, I know you have other plans this weekend. Good luck to ya maybe you will be able to make it next year.
We always have double faces up.


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## andy1996 (Feb 15, 2004)

bowhunter_va_28 said:


> - fewer excuses and less whining than 3D.
> - Archers enjoying themselves and socializing while showing respect to others on the course.
> - an appreciation for what the club provides, because most field archers are active members at one or more local clubs and understand what it takes to keep one running


AMEN--as an active member at my local range it amazes me how many active members complain about stuff on the range and never help in the first place! Get your gloves on and come out to a few work parties!


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## Hinkelmonster (Oct 25, 2004)

THanks ANdy as I KNOW you put many hours of back braking work in to make Darrington what it was in 2007.

I hope you are involved in this years Nat's as well!!!


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## andy1996 (Feb 15, 2004)

Hinkelmonster said:


> THanks ANdy as I KNOW you put many hours of back braking work in to make Darrington what it was in 2007.
> 
> I hope you are involved in this years Nat's as well!!!


Oh yeah--I will be doing the same thing this year--we want the NW to stay in the rotation so we will make this a shoot to remember. Besides--Yankton gets old after a while


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## CarlV (Mar 12, 2008)

Bobmuley said:


> I don't expect much....
> 
> -Safe layout
> -Targets that are scorable
> ...


Agreed.

One more request is that the clubs running the ranges should be absolutely, positively required to tell the mosquitoes to stay dormant until I'm done shooting 

We have one field range up here in the big woods where you need to wear 2 thermocells, one in front and one in back. It's fun to watch the folks that don't believe in Thermocells crowd next to me after a few targets


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## njshadowwalker (Aug 14, 2004)

CarlV said:


> Agreed.
> 
> One more request is that the clubs running the ranges should be absolutely, positively required to tell the mosquitoes to stay dormant until I'm done shooting
> 
> We have one field range up here in the big woods where you need to wear 2 thermocells, one in front and one in back. It's fun to watch the folks that don't believe in Thermocells crowd next to me after a few targets


Ill have mine at the mids. Better safe then needing your partners to donate blood for you that night


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## Bobmuley (Jan 14, 2004)

I don't necessarily like a spartan range. I enjoy the amenities that are available as well as anyone else. I just don't depend on other people to have all those bonus items available. 

Besides, I hear folks complaining about a $1.50 hamburger, warm water, stinky outhouses, faulty bowhangers and the such just as much as I hear them complain about the lack of the same...complainers.


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## rock monkey (Dec 28, 2002)

i'll come to the defense of the smaller clubs that are on public land.

many county, state and maybe even cities prohibit any reasonably permanent structure on their lands. So a club needs to get creative and maintain a real tight budget.

i've read all the replies and have taken a few notes. At my club's next shoot/meeting I will present some suggestions to the prez and those attending.

at my club, we do have a kitchen that's staffed during shooting hours on shoot days. A grill that's ready, a clean and serviced honey bucket and a marked and safe practice range with decent bag targets. The course is brand new and has almost 0 use.

the schedule still needs to be developed and approved but all members are welcome to use the facilities.


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## rsw (May 22, 2002)

Don't forget to check out the shooting positions for the kids. Every once in awhile, shooting stakes are placed, but adults forget to see if target lanes are open for the short folks. 

Also, I hate to see fans spread out wide, unless there are 4 faces on the butt.

Some of us find our arrows have disappeared in the middle of a butt. Out here, many of our butts are 28" or more in thickness and pass throughs can sometimes be completely hidden in the butt if they are not tight.

Another nice amenity is spraying the trails to preclude ticks where they are thick.

On our ranges, I frequently check for "tripping" items like brush/tree stobs or obstructions on steps, etc that can cause serious fall. It doesn't take long and can save a bad incident.

With diminished participation common today, we won't find the manicured ranges many of we old-timers became used to. Be sure to thank the hosts for a job well done after a shoot.


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## sharkred7 (Jul 19, 2005)

Rattleman said:


> Could is the key word here Mike. Not required


Could some one explain to me this issue. I don't remember seeing it and I have never shot a course or shoot where we didn't shoot 4 wide. I thought that was the norm???


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## Rattleman (Jul 6, 2004)

sharkred7 said:


> Could some one explain to me this issue. I don't remember seeing it and I have never shot a course or shoot where we didn't shoot 4 wide. I thought that was the norm???


Most places that have enough room for 4 across allow this but it is completely up to the archers involved. Just like the fans. You can all shoot at the same time or you can shoot 2X2. That is your call. Only time you may have a problem is if some group behind you runs up your butt so you just allow them to shoot thru. What is in question is the 2009 Outdoor Nats when it was ordered by someone that we "were going to shoot" 4 wide. And we were followed and told to hurry up and shoot this way even when no one was catching up. But we really do not need to rehash the past.


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## Jbird (May 21, 2002)

*Like I said Above*

Hopefully the comments to the shoot management will prevent a recurrance of this unnecessary aggrivation to an otherwise fantastic Outdoor National 
experience. We definitely plan to return if it is held there again in 2011 or 2012. 
Jbird


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## Jbird (May 21, 2002)

*Like I said Above*

Hopefully the comments to the shoot management will prevent a recurrance of this unnecessary aggravation to an otherwise fantastic Outdoor National experience. We definitely plan to return if it is held there again in 2011 or 2012. 
Jbird


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

brtesite said:


> I remember a course that you could shoot 4 across at all targets, & you should hear the complaints.


I can also remember the day when, if a course had it set for 4 across, we thought we were indeed BLESSED to have it so well!

The Waverly course in Iowa was (and may well still be) set up for shooting 4 across on all 42 of their targets. In the 70's and 80's that was pretty much standard for us to do. Then, things changed, and now, if a range or target is set for 4 across, you are right...gripes, complaints, and REFUSAL to shoot 4 across.

However, one added "plus" to having the lanes and paths WIDER...is that it cuts down on disturbing the BUGS. It was amazing at Waverly, that once we decided to widen our shooting paths to 4 abreast on nearly all the targets, the "bug problems" all but disappeared and we didn't have to "fog" the place as much after that.

I even see people REFUSING to shoot BUNNY targets that are set up for 4 across with two separate bales. At our local range a few years back, we set up both bunnies with two bales and had blocks set for shooting 4 at a time for the walkup...VERY FEW SHOOTERS would do this...instead, they shot two and two. What a waste of effort that work and the cost of the two additional bales was/is.
Seems people today would complain if they ended up in heaven!

field14 (Tom D.)


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## pragmatic_lee (Jan 19, 2008)

field14 said:


> I can also remember the day when, if a course had it set for 4 across, we thought we were indeed BLESSED to have it so well!
> 
> The Waverly course in Iowa was (and may well still be) set up for shooting 4 across on all 42 of their targets. In the 70's and 80's that was pretty much standard for us to do. Then, things changed, and now, if a range or target is set for 4 across, you are right...gripes, complaints, and REFUSAL to shoot 4 across.
> 
> ...


Shooting Field is kinda like "paid for sex" - It should last as long as possible. Never understood the mentality of driving 2 hours to a shoot, shoot 28 targets as fast as possible (4 across), and then drive 2 hours home. If I'm going to drive those distances, I'm going to take my time while on the course.


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

pragmatic_lee said:


> Shooting Field is kinda like "paid for sex" - It should last as long as possible. Never understood the mentality of driving 2 hours to a shoot, shoot 28 targets as fast as possible (4 across), and then drive 2 hours home. If I'm going to drive those distances, I'm going to take my time while on the course.


Not directed at you, but the quote is interesting.

I recall that one of the EXCUSES used by the people that "bailed out" of FIELD shooting was expressly...FIELD shooting TAKES TOO LONG, I'll opt for 3-D so I can go to more than one shoot in a day or weekend.

I recall at some RECENT tournaments about people complaining because they were "OUT ON THE COURSES ALL DAY LONG" in the heat and humidity.

So...your comment, to me, is quite HYPOCRITICAL.

I still hear, "I don't wanna be out there ALL DAY LONG"...and then on the other side of their mouths, 'I'm out here to TAKE MY TIME, and have fun, and to chat and socialize with my friends.

So...which way is it? Cake and eat it too?

Just bringing up the point that no matter what....people in archery are just going to whine and complain about anything and everything.

field14 (Tom D.)


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## psargeant (Aug 1, 2004)

field14 said:


> Not directed at you, but the quote is interesting.
> 
> I recall that one of the EXCUSES used by the people that "bailed out" of FIELD shooting was expressly...FIELD shooting TAKES TOO LONG, I'll opt for 3-D so I can go to more than one shoot in a day or weekend.
> 
> ...


Tom...I've got news for you...It isn't just people in archery:secret:...

That said, I think there is room for both types. I prefer to take my time and enjoy a shoot (though I rarely ever get to), but I also prefer to shoot 4 wide and not take a break at the half way point...It just fits my tempo better without all the waiting...

Once I'm done, I'll hang out at the clubhouse, eat some burgers, socialize, etc...then if I can get a taker, I'll go shoot some more...

Those that are in a hurry should have the opportunity to go shoot and "get 'r done" those that aren't in a hurry should let 'em shoot through...

You know as well as I that the "excuses" are just that...I've spent quite a bit of time trying to lure the chewies out to a field range over the years...with little success, but those that do come, tend to come back...

We're all in a battle for our leisure time...some have more some have less...Field archery can fit both types of schedule...there is no reason for all the name calling...


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## JPE (Feb 1, 2004)

pragmatic_lee said:


> Shooting Field is kinda like "paid for sex" - It should last as long as possible. Never understood the mentality of driving 2 hours to a shoot, shoot 28 targets as fast as possible (4 across), and then drive 2 hours home. If I'm going to drive those distances, I'm going to take my time while on the course.


Golf is the same way. That's a big part of the reason I quit playing on weekends. Seems like groups were always running up on you to try to get finished quicker, and I'm not a slow golfer.

I've been shooting our field course in the evenings after work and we've yet to have more than 1 group out there shooting at a time in the evenings. It is incredibly relaxing to have the course to yourself and be able to shoot at whatever pace you like. That being said, I do also enjoy the camaraderie and socializing that takes place when we have more people out there at our scheduled shoots.


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## Jbird (May 21, 2002)

*2 x 2*

Most of the people we have shot with enjoy shooting 2 X 2. We are friendly and enjoy the joking and interaction with our squad. No, we don't talk when people are at full draw. We enjoy spotting for the two who are shooting and having them spot for us. We enjoy watching where the arrows fall on the target for possible adjustments when we get on the line. When we shoot first the other two get that benefit. If shooting and finishing fast were the 
main goal we could stay home and shoot our own targets. For all but a select few, Field Archery is about the people and the friendships to be made. We used to shoot with some people who no longer shoot who were always the first to get there, hurried through the courses, said little during the day, and as soon as they fired the last shot jumped in the car and rushed home to sit on the couch in front of the boob tube. They no longer shoot field. Guess it wasn't fun for them. Duh, I wonder why? For future reference; we won't complain if you take it seriously if you don't get offended by our desire to have fun. If this bothers you don't shoot with us and we will all be happy.:wink:
Jbird


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

psargeant said:


> Tom...I've got news for you...It isn't just people in archery:secret:...
> 
> That said, I think there is room for both types. I prefer to take my time and enjoy a shoot (though I rarely ever get to), but I also prefer to shoot 4 wide and not take a break at the half way point...It just fits my tempo better without all the waiting...
> 
> ...


Yep, it isn't just the people in archery.

What slays me, however, is that nowadaze, after all the griping and complaining about FIELD shooting taking too long for 112 shots.....and them "not wanting to be out all day long"....the pipe is on the other side of the mouth where now....6 hours for 40 shots isn't too long, but field shooting, for 112 shots in 5 hours IS too long? What the????? THAT is hypocritical and nothing but an excuse. They are out there to supposedly "shoot their bow"....but seems like they prefer only ONE arrow every 15-25 minutes in the process?

I'll shoot 4-abreast any chance I get, and you do NOT have to all be shooting at the same time to do this. I like the wider paths and lanes becaue you don't stir up so many bugs/insects. What with, Lyme disease, West Nile virus, sweat bees, mosquitoes(even if they aren't carrying West Nile), chiggers, horseflies...why stir them up by having such narrow lanes?

I'm the same way when it comes to the "break" after only 14 targets...I much prefer to just keep on rhythm and not have to "start the engine" again after the muscles start to stiffen up. But SOME people only practice 14 targets at a time, so I understand their grief and "need of a rest."
Heck even indoors, it seems that people want to take a 15 minute break at the half-way point on an NFAA indoor round...and believe it or not...they wanna try that same garbage on a Vegas round...Break for 15 minutes after 15 shots!

But, then they complain when league takes longer....??????? What the?

You can have ample fun on the field course...and NOT be out there "all day in the heat and humidity" (a complaint I heard over and over about Yankton a few years back; that is being out there in the heat for so long????) But yet, they don't want to be out there for so long....but want to TAKE THEIR TIME....
Can't have it both ways....either take your time and quit your belly-aching about being out there all day....or shoot the 4 abreast, when possible and lessen the odds of being out there "all day long in the heat and humidity."

But also don't belly ache when there are those out there that prefer to shoot their round and do their socializing at the picnic area after things are done for the day. Those that will shoot the 4-abreast when possible.

I remember the day when we were told at the beginning of the day...and this was at NATIONAL OUTDOOR tournaments...that we had 5 hours TOTAL from the time of the sound of the horn until the score cards were due to be turned in to the desk, period. 5 hours. In addition, it was enforced. We all made it just fine WITHOUT A RUSH JOB, and this included the "break" after 14 targets. But I will also say that the water was out on those ranges every 4-5 targets or so, and there was ample "eats" for the 1/2 way point stops (Targets 1 and 14 and at the clubhouse, too). We knew they were dead serious about that 5 hours, so didn't dilly dally and cry and moan that they were rushing us around.

Enough on this, however.

To me some of the most important things:
1. NEW target faces on the course at the start of the day.
2. WIDE shooting lanes and paths. (Don't have to be 4 abreast, but c'mon, let's not make them so narrow that two people can't walk side by side down the lanes!
3. Bales that don't LEAK ARROWS, nor bales that are so hard that you get blisters from trying to pull your arrows out.
4. WATER ON THE COURSES...and plenty of it. Also paper cups and TRASH CANS to put them and your other "stuff" into.
5. Clearly marked paths to the next target. The requirement for a course inspection is STILL that the "inspector should be able to easily find their way around the course without confusion (or something like that).
6. SAFE targets. I see way too many unsafe targets on field ranges these days. The safety angles are not adequate, or you have people going directly behing your target while you are trying to shoot! How does THAT get by the "inspector" and the State NFAA Director?
7. The requirement is that the lanes are to be cleared so that the lightest bows can be shot and not hit any branches, twigs, etc on the way to the target. The shooter should NOT have to move around to try to find a clear path to the target. I see a lot of courses these days where getting a clear path to the bale can be problematical; No excuse for this, IMHO.

field14 (Tom D.)


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## Bobmuley (Jan 14, 2004)

field14 said:


> ...
> 6. SAFE targets. I see way too many unsafe targets on field ranges these days. The safety angles are not adequate, or you have people going directly behing your target while you are trying to shoot! How does THAT get by the "inspector" and the State NFAA Director?
> 7. The requirement is that the lanes are to be cleared so that the lightest bows can be shot and not hit any branches, twigs, etc on the way to the target. The shooter should NOT have to move around to try to find a clear path to the target. I see a lot of courses these days where getting a clear path to the bale can be problematical; No excuse for this, IMHO.
> 
> field14 (Tom D.)


When is the last time that the course layout requirements were "updated" .....was it back when the average arrow speed was 190 FPS?


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

Bobmuley said:


> When is the last time that the course layout requirements were "updated" .....was it back when the average arrow speed was 190 FPS?



Who knows? I sure don't, ha.

With today's bow speeds, it makes it even MORE worrisome with regard to safety angles and distances behind the bales for clearances! Those arrows, once they hit something can glance any direction, and the faster the speed, the greater the distance they can travel!

I do feel that shooting lanes are becoming more narrow as time goes on, and the overhead clearance is also lower. With the shorter bows, the bows aren't getting the "distance" out of their site bars....even at 350 fps, because the peep is so close to the arrow with a shorter ATA bow, ha. 190 fps or 350 fps...WE NEED OVERHEAD CLEARANCE...and shouldn't have to "dance around" the shooting stakes to try to find a "clear spot or path" to the target.

ONE accident is all it takes to permanently shut down a course! ONE accident due to too narrow of a safety angle or having a trail too close to being behind a bale is TOO MANY.

I often wonder how many NFAA directors are acutally out there in their States and physically PERFORMING those course inspections, as opposed to having a "designated representative" do the inspections for them; those most often being a member of the CLUB getting the inspection and NFAA Charter requirements fulfilled! I know when I was in Iowa, our club ALWAYS had that course physically inspected by the NFAA Director IN PERSON. I don't know if they're still doing that now, or not.
Same when I lived in Ohio. The NFAA director performed those course inspections, not some "designated representative." We gladly paid the mileage, and expenses to get it certified properly. 

field14 (Tom D.)


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## psargeant (Aug 1, 2004)

When I get my course inspected, I always make sure it is one of the other state officers that does the inspection...I don't do it myself...

Usually it is our President that does the inspections though...I know I've done my share of them (mostly indoor ranges) over the last year, and our past president usually did them before that...at least for as long as I have been involved...

I'd never let a member of the club sign off on the inspection...


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