# Fastest Recurves



## Shotkizer (Nov 3, 2012)

I do not see much threads on this anymore. How many bows are capable of shooting a 450 grain arrow 200 fps or faster? It's almost like we are plateauing on speed. The fastest I know are Border, Morrison, Palmer, and ACS,


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## Hank D Thoreau (Dec 9, 2008)

I would surmise that it boils down to two issues:

1) Availability of bows to test and people to test them. I do a lot of bow testing but I can only test what I can get my hands on. I accept and process data from others, which helps expand my database. In the end, this is a smaller market than compound and testing resources are limited. 
2) Speed has become less of an issue. Shootability is taking on greater importance. Border pushed the envelop on speed with the super recurves. But what is often neglected is the increase in shootability that accompanied the change. Ultimately, you measure performance by outcome, so speed alone is not going to get you there. Maybe we have matured beyond just looking at speed. I used to shoot a bow that clocked about 205. I have not yet tested my current bow but I would expect that it is somewhere in the 160 to 170 range. I shoot the slower bow because it meets the needs of the format that I am shooting better than the faster bow. There are definitely situations where I would go back to the faster bow.

My testing has been suspended for a little while. I need to retrofit some of my equipment. I am still processing data though I am behind on that. Normally, I provide same day service. I have one bow in queue that I have to process today. Injury and illness put me behind. I have not been posting most of the private testing but the results do go into my database for the creation of peer groups for comparisons.


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## Don_Parsons (Feb 9, 2018)

You can get a 100 to 120 lb recurve if you want to match the world record,,, but you'ld be challanged to get a full draw on it. 

Speed is not factor in my world since shot placement trumps the above. 

Rainbow arrows are better in the area that I harvest in as it keeps them out of the weeds when there in transit. 

Up and over. 

Good luck on finding what works. 

Don


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## kentsabrina (Aug 23, 2017)

Speed chart


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

I like bows that throw heavier arrows hard 

Super recurves excel in this area 

My hunting sr’s are shooting 10 gpp @ 200 FPS


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## Yooper-travler (Feb 28, 2011)

I have Max 4’s, had Border 6’s, I’m on the list for the Hex 8 ILFs. I’ve never actually checked my arrow speed. Like Joe my SR ILF push a 10 gpp arrow a heck of a lot faster than any of my my longbows or other recurves will. I’m a hunter, so shoot-ability trumps speed. Thankfully my SRs (really looking forward to the Hex 8’s) are the best of both worlds.


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## Hank D Thoreau (Dec 9, 2008)

kentsabrina said:


> Speed chart


You need to know draw length for this data to be meaningful. Also whether it is hand shot or from a shooting machine. 

I tested a 30 pound bow at various draw lengths on a shooting machine and found an 8 ft/sec change for each inch of draw. Plus, bows shoot faster from machines. That may be related to how we release. I have not yet tried to see if I can reproduce machine speed using a clicker.


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## monkeyball (Jan 31, 2008)

"Speed is fine.....accuracy is final!"

Good Shooting->->->->Craig


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

Without DL and DW, arrow mass and speed are meaningless.


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## flytru (Apr 8, 2016)

grantmac said:


> Without DL and DW, arrow mass and speed are meaningless.



Very true above , and what Hank is saying which makes it all real/relevant !!
Hoping AT does not devolve into the same dribble that was TT.


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## Stephen Morley (Aug 11, 2016)

It's a low priority for me, I have a 27.5" draw, you can give me the fastest Recurve in the world, I still won't shoot faster than a guy with 30" draw and a good quality limb. 

If you have money to burn by all means buy any of these brands that are know for speed limbs but I have to ask why in top level world Archery Barebow don't you see any of these speed limbs being used?


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## kentsabrina (Aug 23, 2017)

Hank D Thoreau said:


> You need to know draw length for this data to be meaningful. Also whether it is hand shot or from a shooting machine.
> 
> I tested a 30 pound bow at various draw lengths on a shooting machine and found an 8 ft/sec change for each inch of draw. Plus, bows shoot faster from machines. That may be related to how we release. I have not yet tried to see if I can reproduce machine speed using a clicker.


of course 

the original full test coverage was on the bearpaw blog, but now only left this chart, let me see if I can still find whole story


on this other bow test:
http://www.bearpaw-blog.com/how-fast-are-the-bodnik-bows-anubis-bows-really/

they use multiple shots @ 28" draw with a mechanical release to normalize result


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## kentsabrina (Aug 23, 2017)

grantmac said:


> Without DL and DW, arrow mass and speed are meaningless.


dw, arrow mass, bow length are all there.

the chart only miss draw length, and it was on the bearpaw blog but its gone now, if u want to know the full story, feel free to google it


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## kentsabrina (Aug 23, 2017)

beside DL u guys are emphasizing

what kinda string they are using is also important, but basically all Bodnik bows in recent years use their inhouse Bodnik Whisper String, so that eliminate another variability. 

I dont work for bearpaw, I post this for the love of their products due to personal experience, I do buy a lot from them.

U may trust or not trust the result, like or not like the bow length or design, but it is what it is. 

Its not meaningless.


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## Smokedinpa (Mar 1, 2015)

There are places with a trad bow that I can see speed being helpful( 3D). I just dont see it being a priority to most. Me personally I’d probably make the arrow heavier to aid in penetration. Plus I enjoy watching the arrow in flight.


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## Chris Hill (Aug 26, 2005)

Pete ward did a review of the Redman and his 50#@28" with a 424 gr arrow was in the low 180s if I read correctly. 

Super recurves are the "fastest" out there. I should say they put more energy into an arrow. But if you want fastest there are some limbs out there with no minimum gpp and you can get some very impressive speeds with them.


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## Borderbows (Apr 4, 2009)

Chris Hill said:


> Pete ward did a review of the Redman and his 50#@28" with a 424 gr arrow was in the low 180s if I read correctly.


Peteward put our obsolite griffon reflex deflex GL longbow at 189fps from [email protected] 454grain.


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## kenn1320 (Aug 28, 2004)

Stephen Morley said:


> It's a low priority for me, I have a 27.5" draw, you can give me the fastest Recurve in the world, I still won't shoot faster than a guy with 30" draw and a good quality limb.
> 
> If you have money to burn by all means buy any of these brands that are know for speed limbs but I have to ask why in top level world Archery Barebow don't you see any of these speed limbs being used?


X10 arrows are the best, do they dominate barebow? Honest question, I have no idea.


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## Stephen Morley (Aug 11, 2016)

X10's are regarded as the best Target arrows in the world but not necessarily the best choice for Barebows shooting Field and 3D.

The ACE is more popular than X10's in Barebow. The distances shot in Field/3D I doubt we would see a significant score gap between the two arrows


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

Guys - 

I like speed, but there's part of an old pilot's saying that speed is only a problem is you don't have enough. 

I've found that most people's shooting improves when they stop worrying about things that just don't matter. Speed and 99.9% of the other "equipment" stuff we keep talking about fall into that category. 

Mr. Morley -



> If you have money to burn by all means buy any of these brands that are know for speed limbs but I have to ask why in top level world Archery Barebow don't you see any of these speed limbs being used?


Ah, yeah, but it ain't just bare bow. 
Re X10's: for most people who actually know what they are doing, ACE's are a better choice, whether bare bow or not. 
The are lighter, and have specs that most people can't fully utilize. 

Viper1 out.


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

With numbers like that out of glass powered limbs it seems Bodnik should be building perpetual motion machines instead of bows.


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## reddogge (Jul 21, 2009)

Never trust a speed chart put out by a manufacturer......especially with his bows at the top of the chart.


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## JINKSTER (Mar 19, 2011)

FWIW?...I own a "really fast" recurve but I prefer to think of it as a "really powerful" recurve because anything over 200fps?...and I start feeling like I'm shooting a strung rat trap.

At my DL my really powerful recurve will throw 7.1gpp arrows 215fps....9.7gpp arrows 198fps...12.5gpp arrows 180fps...13.8gpp at 168fps and lastly?...16.8gpp at 158fps.

I never shoot the 7.1gpp/215fps arrows and I only shoot the 9.7gpp/198fps arrows in long distance competition such as 60yd/50yd/40yd 900rds.

The 12.5gpp/180fps are my 3D arrows cause it seems I can wrap my head around 180fps arrows pretty good for unknown distance events where any faster than that?...and not so much.

If I ever do go hunting again it will be with the 16.8gpp/158fps arrows but I have little need (or use) for speed.


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

I agree with Jinks 

For me I shoot big heavy bodied animals at bad angles 

I like fairly heavy arrows 

The bows I choose give me the added juice I want and I can even go lighter than I did in years past and get the same type of performance I was getting with bows 20%+/- heavier 

I know I can shoot a 50 pound bow better than a 60 pound bow most days and I ain’t getting any younger 

With that said I know you can get adequate penetration with light Well tuned rigs but I like have the power to take hard angles and get arrows out the other side 

This arrow was buried and only the opposing shoulder stopped it 

I would of liked it to come through  



The deer I’m holding here was shot with an old Fedora 560 on a deer drive and I shot him through the shoulder. The bow was 65 pounds and was fast for its time 

So it ain’t about speed for me it’s about when things go wrong


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## Chris Hill (Aug 26, 2005)

Joe, if you want your arrow to poke out the other side shoot smaller deer


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

Funny Buddy 

As you know when they are broadside and ya poke um through the ribs anything goes through 

It’s when the angles and the bones get in the way there is problems


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## Bill 2311 (Jun 24, 2005)

To me, speed shows the potential of a bow. I like a bow that can throw a +/- 10 gpp arrow as fast as possible. I can get more speed by going lighter but I think that I am now cutting into penetration via momentum. Some folks couldn't care less what their bows shoot so far as arrow speed. Others seem to chase the last few fps.
Each of us must find our own happy median of speed vs arrow weight


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## Ernie80 (Nov 15, 2014)

Hi

The Bearpaw test are so exaggerated that it hurts. ROFL

Greets
Ernie


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## dobbs_869 (Feb 16, 2018)

Seconded on anything Pete Ward does, great reviews, lots of information. Very accurate! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## JINKSTER (Mar 19, 2011)

Ernie80 said:


> Hi
> 
> The Bearpaw test are so exaggerated that it hurts. ROFL
> 
> ...


They must have been using the metric system.


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## MAT (May 27, 2003)

The real difference between a fast recurve and the fastest recurve at hunting arrow weights is at most 10 fps. That maybe 5% additional speed it's going to matter past 25 yards where hunting weight arrows start to drop significantly. The additional energy is good but the SR have other issues, like accuracy and noise. Just like wheelie bows it's good to give up a bit of ultimate speed to have a quiet and accurate bow. Also if you have a longer draw length you are already at a speed/performance advantage. 

I've killed 2 bull caribou, 3 hogs and a few large whitetails shooting 50# at 26" draw with complete penetration every time (except for one front shoulder hit). This is with bows by Palmer, ILF limbs by Tradtech and Uukha. My fastest setup is 180 fps with a 515 grn high FOC arrow with my Uukha UX100 evo2 curve limbs, which are a bit more recurve but not a full on SR. 

The problem with SR by Border is they have gone past the point of benefit so it's really just a marketing tactic to get you to buy a new bow every few years. Those big hooks lead to unstable limbs that act like noodles during and after the shot. That's why they hum. Take a 200 fps slowmo video and you'll be surprise how much they wiggle. All that for maybe 10 fps?

The last big buck I shot and the arrow:


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## kenn1320 (Aug 28, 2004)

Theres more to the SR than 10fps and the comments about them being unstable/inaccurate are nonsense. Yes they move around post shot as the portion that isnt supported by the string dissipate energy, but they are extremely accurate. I shoot on the line with plenty of conventional limbs and they smack and flop like a fish out of water on a riser with heavy barebow weights while mine with SR is super quiet.


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## Hank D Thoreau (Dec 9, 2008)

I agree that it is not all about speed with super recurves. I have all the speed I need. I get two things from an SR: 1) the soft back end which makes expansion easier; 2) a longer string which improves the balance of my bow while stringwalking.


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## Nilye (Jul 26, 2016)

So what about accuracy in SR? Some say they are accurate and some they are not. 
For me repeatability or acuracy is the most important factor followed by smoothness and speed.

MAT - do you own Border bow or limbs? Or other SR? Your opinion is quite "strong" on them and differs from others - I would like to know the background.

Thank you
Michal


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## Chris Hill (Aug 26, 2005)

Never had accuracy problems shooting hex6,7 and 7.5s. they kill animals just fine and win tournaments just fine. Had many people comment on how quiet they are. Maybe it's the shooter and not the limbs.


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

Not true 

I have walls of recurves and I have to go as much as ten pounds to achieve similar results 

No one is saying you need all the energy for most critters but to deny they make it is simple not true


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

Nilye said:


> So what about accuracy in SR? Some say they are accurate and some they are not.
> For me repeatability or acuracy is the most important factor followed by smoothness and speed.
> 
> MAT - do you own Border bow or limbs? Or other SR? Your opinion is quite "strong" on them and differs from others - I would like to know the background.
> ...


Mat dislikes Border archery and they will not sell to him ...... long story


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## JINKSTER (Mar 19, 2011)

Well the "Noodle Limbs" on my 60"/45# Hex7 CH sure shot bare shafts pretty well and I don't think this is the sort of 20yd results one gets from unstable limbs...




























and then there was that time I took my 64"/38# Hex7.5 CH too a 900rd held by Brevard Archers and shot 30 arrows each from 60yds, 50yds & 40yds....



















some laughed and got a kick out of my arrows having..."Real Feathers"










But they were amazed that I was hitting with no sights, levels, stabs, mech. releases etc....

bow seems stable enough too me.


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## Yooper-travler (Feb 28, 2011)

So I have owned multiple “super” recurve ILF limbs (border and Morrison).

Do they make me more accurate? No. Less accurate? No. The whole accuracy thing rests solely on my shoulders.

Are they quiet? Yes. Longbow quiet? Nope. Are they every bit as quiet as my wooden take down recurves? Yep.

Do they make a “hum” after the shot? Nope. 

Your mileage may vary.


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## Stephen Morley (Aug 11, 2016)

I only ever had the Hex6 but I never shot higher Field scores with them over my conventional limbs, obviously faster as I gained 5y on my point on but I got nothing extra score wise. We're talking 10 points difference but a world Fields is 5 days, 50 points is the difference between first and 10th

Same for 3D although unmarked and terrain made it harder to make comparisons, my highest scores on WA3D were with the CV limbs, they actually gave me the same point on as the Hex6 but averaging 10 points more on a Field round. I would say at that time the CV was the fastest conventional limb out there but I never got to try them all, certainly the limbs in the same price bracket I used didn't match for speed.


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## kenn1320 (Aug 28, 2004)

I get a huge mental benefit from SR limbs, specifically the 7.5 Borders. I get a feeling of ease at anchor, no feeling of this is getting heavy, shoot already. I can take my time and set my aim point and run my shot. This is a huge benefit to accuracy over the long run, as shooting the same weight conventional limbs induces that anxiety to rush my shot. I hunt with the same limbs I compete with. [email protected]" is plenty for whitetails, makes for a perfect 3d set up with nock point elevated for a 30yd point on. Using a 579gr arrow with a mid height nock point works for nfaa trad indoors where you cannot string walk. Accuracy? My personal best indoors is 289 and if I dont change my target at half, it can be hard to score X's towards the end of the match. To call the Border SR limbs "hunting" limbs and not stable or accurate is simply not true.


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## Borderbows (Apr 4, 2009)

kenn1320 said:


> I get a huge mental benefit from SR limbs, specifically the 7.5 Borders. I get a feeling of ease at anchor, no feeling of this is getting heavy, shoot already. I can take my time and set my aim point and run my shot. This is a huge benefit to accuracy over the long run, as shooting the same weight conventional limbs induces that anxiety to rush my shot. I hunt with the same limbs I compete with. [email protected]" is plenty for whitetails, makes for a perfect 3d set up with nock point elevated for a 30yd point on. Using a 579gr arrow with a mid height nock point works for nfaa trad indoors where you cannot string walk. Accuracy? My personal best indoors is 289 and if I dont change my target at half, it can be hard to score X's towards the end of the match. To call the Border SR limbs "hunting" limbs and not stable or accurate is simply not true.


In 2012 with hex6 limbs Alan Eagleton took silver on a world podium
https://youtu.be/HYDxi2kOk8w

In 2015 the guy that took gold from Alan in 2012, then took Gold from a very very well regarded archer in Terni Italy, With hex6s.
https://worldarchery.org/competitio...hery-3d-championships#/brackets/BM/individual
You can find pictures of this event all over the internet.
Clearly seeing his limb profile.

I really dont see a reduction in accuracy here.


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## Stephen Morley (Aug 11, 2016)

I heard Alan doesn't shoot Hex's anymore, anyone know why?


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## Borderbows (Apr 4, 2009)

Stephen Morley said:


> I heard Alan doesn't shoot Hex's anymore, anyone know why?


Viktor Ruban won the 2008 Gents Olympic gold with W&W kit. A few months later swapped to Hoyt kit

Anyone know why?


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## Stephen Morley (Aug 11, 2016)

Borderbows said:


> Stephen Morley said:
> 
> 
> > I heard Alan doesn't shoot Hex's anymore, anyone know why?
> ...


He was sponsored by Hoyt


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## WindWalker (Jan 23, 2005)

I prefer a slow hit vs. a fast miss.


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## Shotkizer (Nov 3, 2012)

Shotkizer said:


> I do not see much threads on this anymore. How many bows are capable of shooting a 450 grain arrow 200 fps or faster? It's almost like we are plateauing on speed. The fastest I know are Border, Morrison, Palmer, and ACS,


Good posts, but in particular, WHAT ARE THE FASTEST RECURVES??

There are threads compiled on this that are very DATED and do not represent the newer bows and innovations. Thanks.


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## Bill 2311 (Jun 24, 2005)

WindWalker said:


> I prefer a slow hit vs. a fast miss.


A fast bow does not equate to a miss.


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

Shotkizer said:


> Good posts, but in particular, WHAT ARE THE FASTEST RECURVES??
> 
> There are threads compiled on this that are very DATED and do not represent the newer bows and innovations. Thanks.


Fastest with heavy arrows or light? Short draw or long? Fastest while staying quiet or just not exploding? Actually hitting things or just not hitting the chronograph? There are flight recurves shooting blistering speeds but you'd never want to take them into the woods.


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## Beendare (Jan 31, 2006)

Yeah speed is good....but its not the end all. 

A guy can get more speed out of any recurve...just use a lighter arrow. 

I'm primarily a bowhunter, so I like a bow that is efficient/fast...... but super quiet. 

My 50# ILF bows with a 600gr arrow approach a longbow in terms of quiet. There are other factors besides pure speed...otherwise I wouldn't skin my limbs- grin


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## Stephen Morley (Aug 11, 2016)

Swedish guy that beat me in France said the other day his rig shoots 250fps he has 32" draw, my T Rex arms just cannot complete in this speed race without going to silly draw weights, I accept it and focus on the things I can control, like tune and form.

I've come across a few people in tourneys that brag on how fast their setup is but don't seem to care about accuracy, just the fact they have the fastest bow on the range lol


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## Chris Hill (Aug 26, 2005)

Steve, I don't like super fast either. I seem to be most accurate with about 190 fps. Anything over 200 and I get bad flyers. Doesn't seem to matter what limbs I shoot. I guess my form isn't good enough for those speeds.


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

I understand that speed can help in competition but for me that is not my concern 

I want to drop weight in my Hunting bows and get the same power of a heavier bow 

It’s really that simple


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## Stephen Morley (Aug 11, 2016)

Chris Hill said:


> Steve, I don't like super fast either. I seem to be most accurate with about 190 fps. Anything over 200 and I get bad flyers. Doesn't seem to matter what limbs I shoot. I guess my form isn't good enough for those speeds.


I had to do a shoot off against the Swede and an Italian for 3rd and 4th place to go into Semi finals, it was a 30m wolf and the spectators were to the right of the Target, when we finished a Russian asked me what poundage I was shooting because my arrow went downrange way flatter arc than the other two guys, I know I'm a little over 200fps but can't figure how my arrow can possibly shoot less of an arc than a 250fps arrow.


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## WindWalker (Jan 23, 2005)

> A fast bow does not equate to a miss


That is very much dependent on the shooter and his/her rig.

I have a bud who is less than a mediocre shooter who had a custom-made recurve (same as one I have... "Ibex") that he had a set of high-performance speed limbs made for, shot the lowest spine arrows he could, high performance string, and brace set the lowest he could. In all the times he used that bow he was unable to make one kill...not even close. 

When shot, the limb tips would twist and throw the string, he complained about constant arm slap, and his arrows flew radical. He could be across the field from my location and I could hear his shot. Sounded like the crack of a small caliber rifle. The bow hangs in his workshop drawing dust. He did nearly same with his Jensen with the same results.


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## Bill 2311 (Jun 24, 2005)

To me, having a bow made as described above is a recipe for problems. I bet his arrows were very light and the whole thing would give a lot of vibration, not to mentioned the noise heard.
I can feel and hear a difference between 8.5 gpp and 10 gpp.


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## Jason W. (Feb 16, 2018)

WindWalker said:


> I prefer a slow hit vs. a fast miss.


I prefer a fast hit over a slow miss. 

In all seriousness, I know what you're saying. I've shot a lot of recurves and longbows touted for speed. Most of them gave up stability to get those impressive chronograph numbers.


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## kenn1320 (Aug 28, 2004)

Jason W. said:


> I prefer a fast hit over a slow miss.
> 
> In all seriousness, I know what you're saying. I've shot a lot of recurves and longbows touted for speed. Most of them gave up stability to get those impressive chronograph numbers.


Jason is a heck of a shot, and has lots of FAST hits. (grin)


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## Corene1 (Apr 27, 2014)

Since I shoot mostly NFAA field rounds with their trad rules, finger touching the nock and 1 anchor point, I like to tune the bow so that my point on is at 44 yards and I have a nice tight gap at the closer yardages . It is also important to be able to carry the 60 to 80 yard distances so speed is also important . I find there is a need to balance the speed to fit the type of shooting you are doing. I find 186 fps give or take a tiny bit makes a nice balance in my aiming system. Along with speed, the weight of the arrow also plays an important part of the equation. A very light fast arrow will not retain energy at long distances and will bleed the speed faster so getting the correct weight to speed ratio is also important. Just my thoughts.


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