# THE VERDICT ON MICHAEL VINCENT as per ASA PRO AM RULES



## backwoodsdonkey (Apr 13, 2010)

In all Unknown Distance competitions any form of range finding is prohibited:
All distances will be judged by the naked eye. No equipment, including but not limited to sights, binoculars, or spotting scopes will be used in a manner inconsistent with this prohibition. Using any part of the shooter’s body is prohibited, which includes “gapping techniques” that may also use equipment, or the “stepping off” of the distance to, or from, any target. Shooters may carry “target cards” reflecting a picture or rendering of the specific targets being shot, but no marks or notations of any type may be made on these cards. In addition, the prohibition on marks or notations includes carrying, or making, any additional notes about yardages or features of any target on a competition range. Exchanging target information with shooters in your group, spectators, or other groups while shooting is also strictly prohibited. This prohibition includes the taking of notes on target distances which is prohibited under Rule “S” on range finding. Violations will be referred to the Competition Committee. The first offense will result in disqualification of the shooter from the event. A second offense will result in a suspension for the remainder of the tournament season with no refund of any entry fees paid. 

This issue is settled. For 24 hours or more now people have been wanting to know the rules, to follow the "RULES". Well thats the rule on the ASA website at bottom of page 4 I believe. I know many of you will not agree with this BUT they followed the rules to the letter. If it happens again, I can promise they will follow the rules again as they are written.


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## ohiobullseye (Feb 6, 2011)

So now that's settled will Michael Vincent shoot another ASA or IBO tournament?


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## J Whittington (Nov 13, 2009)

I want to see mikes response to this


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## Sentinalonfire (Apr 4, 2010)

I guess im a full time IBO'er now cause i will not support such filth...


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## Sentinalonfire (Apr 4, 2010)

I guess im a full time IBO'er now cause i will not support such filth... Not that they would care, but i was just told the same thing from a group of 5 guys from missouri, they say him or them... Its asa's choice..


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## J Whittington (Nov 13, 2009)

Matt I agree this ain't right. I think we semis need to get together and create a petition


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## osuhunter2011 (Feb 13, 2009)

I can see mandatory optic checks at IBO and ASA events now. Good to see the strong feelings come from other shooters. He should be banned!


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## outbackarcher (Oct 31, 2005)

J Whittington said:


> Matt I agree this ain't right. I think we semis need to get together and create a petition


Jerry you're right. If everyone will stick together we can make a point.


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## J Whittington (Nov 13, 2009)

If Sundays round is the only thing the Asa does, then they owe someone an apology for banning them for 5 years, and his offense was not cheating! His offense was speaking his mind and telling the truth!


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## 12sonly (Jan 6, 2007)

Jerry, y'all need to refuse to shoot with him. If asa does nothing, then you got raw deal.


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## Brian from GA (Aug 15, 2002)

J Whittington said:


> If Sundays round is the only thing the Asa does, then they owe someone an apology for banning them for 5 years, and his offense was not cheating! His offense was speaking his mind and telling the truth!


hmmm who might you be refering to  

I'm sickened by the action of the competitor but the rules ASA has in print are the rules the ASA has to go by.... Will this be discussed in the offseason?.... I would bet they will be and maybe harsher punishment will be discussed for future offenses.... But why hate on ASA when they are following their rules that we all play by. I'm actually glad I am no longer on the Competition Committee..... would have hated to have to be this lenient.


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## OHIOARCHER36 (Oct 12, 2010)

Just when i'm ready to try out a new org. You see stuff like this . One thing in life i can't stand is a cheater . Guess i'll pass on asa .


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

Brian from GA said:


> hmmm who might you be refering to
> 
> I'm sickened by the action of the competitor but the rules ASA has in print are the rules the ASA has to go by.... Will this be discussed in the offseason?.... I would bet they will be and maybe harsher punishment will be discussed for future offenses.... But why hate on ASA when they are following their rules that we all play by. I'm actually glad I am no longer on the Competition Committee..... would have hated to have to be this lenient.


Brian you know the rules are not followed to the Tee in ASA. Whatever Terrell decides is the rules. Im just calling it like it is. I doubt anything will be done here. Seen slap on the wrist stuff in ASA for years. 
DB


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## J Whittington (Nov 13, 2009)

The person I'm referring to wasn't given a 1 tournament ban, or a year ban. Straight to banned indeffinately. Again, he did not cheat, never has and never will. He got banned for speaking his mind


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Yes, it could very well be someone is reading not enough of the above stated rule. Caught once, yes, but said is there of witnesses that saw the aledged party used the same binoculars at other events.

I say let the ASA complete it's investigation before rattling off. If it was me and severe punishment to be dealt I'd want to know for sure I had my ducks lined up...

Just checked the ASA Forums. No word there other than discussion as in AT.


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## Brian from GA (Aug 15, 2002)

Dan

Got to disagreee with you here. Mike is not on the competition committee. What ever they decide is given to Mike. I have never known him to dispute that decision. As a matter of fact the last stinker I was on Mike was sort of against our decision because he wanted harsher punishment but he went along with the committees decision which was based on what we could prove. Those folks involved are still shooting and in good standing and most never knew the event happened or have forgotten all about it. 

Folks I agree that I wish the penalty was stiffer. I came home last night and reread the rules because I thought I remembered Unsportsmanlike Conduct being a 1 year ban and the shooter having to appeal to be reinstated.

The other episode was a LOOOONG time ago and I do not want to bring up old sores but speaking ones mind does not normally mean the person can be heard several ranges away and badged officials being called to escort someone away when they refused to leave.


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## reylamb (Feb 5, 2003)

Brian from GA said:


> Dan
> 
> Got to disagreee with you here. Mike is not on the competition committee. What ever they decide is given to Mike. I have never known him to dispute that decision. As a matter of fact the last stinker I was on Mike was sort of against our decision because he wanted harsher punishment but he went along with the committees decision which was based on what we could prove. Those folks involved are still shooting and in good standing and most never knew the event happened or have forgotten all about it.
> 
> ...


Now Brian, you know he just wanted everyone to know what was on his mind!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Look folks, Mike has to go by the rules. If not there are potential legal reprecussions.

I am not sure if this would be covered under unsportsmanlike conduct as it is specifically referred to in the rules covering unknown yardage. If not, then maybe the unsportsmanlike conduct would come in to play.

As for the semis forming a group, and getting a petition, to what end? Mike can not make rules retroactively. Honestly, did anyone ever think anyone would try to pull of something this ballsy? Form groups, get together, ask Mike to make the rules different going forward, but there is little he can do retroactively.

While we are at it, are we going to push for a 1 year ban, or a lifetime ban, or any ban for folks shooting 289?

How about folks that do not touch or straddle the stake, ban for that also?

WHere do we draw the line?

I neither condone nor support what Vincent did, but what is done is done. If Mike and the ASA just willy-nilly changed the rules as they saw fit there would be outrage, and rightly so.


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## Sentinalonfire (Apr 4, 2010)

Brian from GA said:


> Dan
> 
> Got to disagreee with you here. Mike is not on the competition committee. What ever they decide is given to Mike. I have never known him to dispute that decision. As a matter of fact the last stinker I was on Mike was sort of against our decision because he wanted harsher punishment but he went along with the committees decision which was based on what we could prove. Those folks involved are still shooting and in good standing and most never knew the event happened or have forgotten all about it.
> 
> ...


I saw a post from the asa rule book that pretty much said they had the right too refuse anyone at any given time.. Sounds like a good time to me?


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## reylamb (Feb 5, 2003)

Sentinalonfire said:


> I saw a post from the asa rule book that pretty much said they had the right too refuse anyone at any given time.. Sounds like a good time to me?


As a for-profit organization it is well within their rights. It could still probe to be a sticky legal situation, should someone wish to file a civil suit...........


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## Sentinalonfire (Apr 4, 2010)

Well should'nt it be within lets say Corey Shives rights too file suit against vincent for the lets say approx $1500 he STOLE from him in louisiana...??? What about that?


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## 3Dblackncamo (Jul 22, 2009)

that would be correct, what he done was stole coreys win!


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## reylamb (Feb 5, 2003)

Sentinalonfire said:


> Well should'nt it be within lets say Corey Shives rights too file suit against vincent for the lets say approx $1500 he STOLE from him in louisiana...??? What about that?


Maybe, but at what cost to Corey?

His attorney fees would not even cover the money he was robbed of in LA.

Even if he went the small claims route would the costs cover his losses to actually go to court?

Can he prove, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that Vincent cheated in LA? Therein is the rub.......while every archer and ASAer, myself included, would agree that he has been cheating for a while, would a judge or jury see it the same way?


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## Sentinalonfire (Apr 4, 2010)

Im done here...


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## tntone (Aug 13, 2006)

thats my thing, what about the win in la, he placed what 12th in fl..? he has placed or won and put others behind him by cheating. he should give up all winnings this year, and everyone should step up a notch in the class he shot... two years ago at augusta on the last shot on sunday i hooked my release and the arrow came off the rest and string, i could not reach it by keeping my foot on the stake, i took a "0" on the shot. everyone in the group told me to shoot the arrow when i picked it up but i couldn't do it, its against the rules. i was not in contention for anything, i placed outside the top 20... rules are rules. his intent is my problem, the time and thought he put into cheating, the trouble he went through...


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## J Whittington (Nov 13, 2009)

Brian that was not the case! So get your facts straight please. Yes that's a whole different and half the truth didn't come out. The Asa didn't go by their rules then. 
I was banned because I repeatedly complained about the severe reductions in the Asa's paybacks, I complained in 1999 of not being peer grouped at the classic in Atlanta for SOY. I was in first place, don't ya think I deserved to be peer grouped duh.

What happend in my case? Range was poorly set in Asa metropolis 7 year or so ago. Myself and 7 others hit a over hanging limb on sat. To cut to the chase, I voiced my opinion and Filed a protest. I lost of course. I was told by an Asa official that they were doing us a favor by having the tournaments. We, the shooters were indebted to them. What a joke.

Sunday, am the 2nd target was a wolf, trashy! I done exactly as I was instructed. I called the range official to complain about the target. Then and that's why I got banned. I was pushed and threatened by an Asa official. I was not asked to leave until the park ranger came. I never cheated, never done anything unethical in my opinion. 

Asa wanted me gone because I told it exactly the way it was, the truth! I lost 5 yrs of archery in the Asa. I lost all possibilities of ever being sponsored because I got black balled. But no one can call me a cheater, I'm as honest as any shooter out there, I'm not a quitter. I got railed, shafted etc. that's then, and it's over. 

MV's case is totally different! He cheated,he lied, and he stole! If they don't give him the same treatment, then how can they justify what they done to me!


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## hoytshooter0106 (Jan 1, 2012)

okay guys i dont approve him cheating at all but i will say this lets say in nascar someone wins all these races and 15 races into the season they find something not legal on his car they dont back up and take his wins or money away they make him pay a fine and put him on probation for lets say a year!! and that is the same thing that needs to be done here we all know he probably used the range finder at the other shoots but there is no proof so the only proof is at the shoot he got caught at!! and if anyone wants to blame anyone you need to blame the asa and ibo for not doing a thourough inspection of his equipment cause optics is part of your equipment not just your bow!! and i have been to three ibo shoots this year and placed in the top 5 everytime and never been check so yeah he got away with it for awhile but blame the ibo and asa more for letting him get away with it this long!! and that is just my 2 cents


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## proXarchery (Apr 9, 2004)

Amen J W ,-------------- PUT THAT IN YOUR PIPE AND SMOKE IT ASA


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## cinchup1973 (Oct 19, 2011)

You guys are forgetting that the ASA has to follow the rules set fourth in writing. We as a collective are passing judgement on the ASA as well as MV and I've seen no true ruling from the asa any where. He may face a ban. For all we know he may not even show his face at a shoot again solely out of pure shame. Patience is short in supply here. Lets see how the cookie crumbles before we pour out the milk and cry. I know my experience with the asa and the shooters involved has been positive all year. The guys saying cheating is rampant are nuts. You shoot with a group of guys that you most likely have seen in passing, you judge as a group, if you see or are witness to some type of cheating its your own fault you didnt say somthing. If the committee is approached with a petition from the semipros they may actually consider a rule change. To say you aren't gonna shoot or will no longer be part of an organization because they follow their own written rules is tantamount to a 5 year old saying I dont wana play no more cause I cant get my way. If you wana make a change do it the right way. Your also saying I let another competitor's actions rule my world and effect how I'm gonna compete or not compete. 
Get the petition together and turn it in see what falls where, but by no means allow what another doesto controll you or your actions.


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## Babyk (Jul 5, 2011)

I think the fact that he took the time to make them appear not to be rangfinding binocluars (Zeiss or whatever brand they were) and attempted to make them appear to be Alpens will be taken into consideration.....I know the OP shows that the rules for are written as such but ASA should take into consideration that this was pre meditated and took time for the person to figure out....wasnt like oh I didnt know they were illegal or I forgot to take batterys out this was attempt to win by useing them to range the targets and know the exact yardage of each....and the fact that others said he hide them between targets must be factored in also....

I do not know this guy if he walked upto me but he needs to be held accountable for his actions and whatever punishment is handed out take it and move on....
may be a great guy like others have posted and just made a poor choice


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## Bowjoe1972 (Oct 29, 2008)

What wrong with them ???


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## candymaker13 (Apr 19, 2011)

Hate to see anyone leave this great organization because of a person that chose to take the low road, there are a lot of kids , women and newcomers to the ASA like myself that absolutely love what they do, we have to realize that the ASA is stuck between a rock and a hard place, if they don't follow the rules that they have in place then some may question the integrity of the organization , I would bann him so quick it would make your head spin butt not everyone sees it that way. Let the ASA follow the rules they have in place for now , and then redo the rules, butt please no one quit the organization , in the two years I've been involved in 3D i have met some of the nicest most helpfull people ever, I love this sport and there's gonna be a low life any where there's competition involved butt let him be the one to leave not any of you good folks out there, if he decides to come back and shoot it will be the ballsiest thing ever cause I'm sure he's reading every post as its put up , and man I feel sorry for his kids . I sure hope they stay involved in this great sport and get as much out of this great sport as I have, sorry to blab on butt this is a terrible situation for the people who have been cheated and all the honest people that put a lot of sweat in practice everyday after work after kids go to bed anytime we can get a shot in to practice form or tweak a bow or judge yardage or learn how to shoot back tension so we don't punch( me) for one idiot to ruin it, just my 2 cents( excuse my giant run on sentence and bad punctuation )


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## Babyk (Jul 5, 2011)

Sad for his kids....was to worried about padding his ego than his family and what his actions may do or done to them....


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## J Whittington (Nov 13, 2009)

No they don't. They didnt in my case. 





cinchup1973 said:


> You guys are forgetting that the ASA has to follow the rules set fourth in writing. We as a collective are passing judgement on the ASA as well as MV and I've seen no true ruling from the asa any where. He may face a ban. For all we know he may not even show his face at a shoot again solely out of pure shame. Patience is short in supply here. Lets see how the cookie crumbles before we pour out the milk and cry. I know my experience with the asa and the shooters involved has been positive all year. The guys saying cheating is rampant are nuts. You shoot with a group of guys that you most likely have seen in passing, you judge as a group, if you see or are witness to some type of cheating its your own fault you didnt say somthing. If the committee is approached with a petition from the semipros they may actually consider a rule change. To say you aren't gonna shoot or will no longer be part of an organization because they follow their own written rules is tantamount to a 5 year old saying I dont wana play no more cause I cant get my way. If you wana make a change do it the right way. Your also saying I let another competitor's actions rule my world and effect how I'm gonna compete or not compete.
> Get the petition together and turn it in see what falls where, but by no means allow what another doesto controll you or your actions.


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## Babyk (Jul 5, 2011)

JWhittington please do explain....


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## candymaker13 (Apr 19, 2011)

J Whittington said:


> No they don't. They didnt in my case.


???


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## buttspanker (Apr 25, 2008)

Babyk said:


> JWhittington please do explain....


He already did. Read page 1! He has a very valid point.


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## damnyankee (Oct 4, 2002)

semiprojoe...thats funny right there


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## ohiobullseye (Feb 6, 2011)

bowjoe1972 said:


> what wrong with them ???
> View attachment 1324873


x2 lol


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## J Whittington (Nov 13, 2009)

Whats wrong ? Lol you didn't invest nearly as much time as someone else did on disguising them


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## J Whittington (Nov 13, 2009)

Babyk said:


> JWhittington please do explain....


I can't, posted way to much, probably be banned again. My career is already destroyed and not near the shooter I used to be. However I do enjoy shooting with the semi pro guys . Great group of people. Probably the best group overall that 3D archery has today.


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## shootertg (Sep 6, 2008)

Bowjoe1972 said:


> What wrong with them ???
> View attachment 1324873


That's hilarious!!!


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## Sentinalonfire (Apr 4, 2010)

cinchup1973 said:


> You guys are forgetting that the ASA has to follow the rules set fourth in writing. We as a collective are passing judgement on the ASA as well as MV and I've seen no true ruling from the asa any where. He may face a ban. For all we know he may not even show his face at a shoot again solely out of pure shame. Patience is short in supply here. Lets see how the cookie crumbles before we pour out the milk and cry. I know my experience with the asa and the shooters involved has been positive all year. The guys saying cheating is rampant are nuts. You shoot with a group of guys that you most likely have seen in passing, you judge as a group, if you see or are witness to some type of cheating its your own fault you didnt say somthing. If the committee is approached with a petition from the semipros they may actually consider a rule change. To say you aren't gonna shoot or will no longer be part of an organization because they follow their own written rules is tantamount to a 5 year old saying I dont wana play no more cause I cant get my way. If you wana make a change do it the right way. Your also saying I let another competitor's actions rule my world and effect how I'm gonna compete or not compete.
> Get the petition together and turn it in see what falls where, but by no means allow what another doesto controll you or your actions.


Whatever dude.. Think what you wish..


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## Wes_C7 (Feb 24, 2010)

Bowjoe1972 said:


> What wrong with them ???
> View attachment 1324873


Hahahaha...wonder how many local pencil pushers have rushed out to get those binos, hoping that no one at their range has read any of this?


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## asa_low12 (Mar 15, 2008)

It will be funny when he's at the next shoot in k50.


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## asa_low12 (Mar 15, 2008)

asa_low12 said:


> It will be funny when he's at the next shoot in k50.


with the same alpen's!!!!


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## asa_low12 (Mar 15, 2008)

You know if the police were involved then they could probably see exactly when and exactly what yard sale he used his credit card to pay for the bino's. I'm guessing it was a bass pro or cabelas yard sale, or possibly an online forum. Might have to check paypal for a large transaction like that.


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## Babyk (Jul 5, 2011)

asa_low12 said:


> You know if the police were involved then they could probably see exactly when and exactly what yard sale he used his credit card to pay for the bino's. I'm guessing it was a bass pro or cabelas yard sale, or possibly an online forum. Might have to check paypal for a large transaction like that.


no way does anyone sale Zeiss Binos at a yard sale.....heck who has Zeiss binos with this price tag even has a yard sale!!!


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## edgerat (Dec 14, 2011)

Sell his Zeiss on eBay and give the proceeds to the guy that actually won in LA


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## EROS (Feb 15, 2004)

Sad to see things like this. Now everything he does now for the rest of his life in archery will be suspect. I could care less about what the ASA says. I wouldn't want to wear the title of cheater on my chest.


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## J Whittington (Nov 13, 2009)

Babyk said:


> no way does anyone sale Zeiss Binos at a yard sale.....heck who has Zeiss binos with this price tag even has a yard sale!!!


Exactly


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## treeman65 (Nov 24, 2005)

cinchup1973 said:


> You guys are forgetting that the ASA has to follow the rules set fourth in writing. We as a collective are passing judgement on the ASA as well as MV and I've seen no true ruling from the asa any where. He may face a ban. For all we know he may not even show his face at a shoot again solely out of pure shame. Patience is short in supply here. Lets see how the cookie crumbles before we pour out the milk and cry. I know my experience with the asa and the shooters involved has been positive all year. The guys saying cheating is rampant are nuts. You shoot with a group of guys that you most likely have seen in passing, you judge as a group, if you see or are witness to some type of cheating its your own fault you didnt say somthing. If the committee is approached with a petition from the semipros they may actually consider a rule change. To say you aren't gonna shoot or will no longer be part of an organization because they follow their own written rules is tantamount to a 5 year old saying I dont wana play no more cause I cant get my way. If you wana make a change do it the right way. Your also saying I let another competitor's actions rule my world and effect how I'm gonna compete or not compete.
> Get the petition together and turn it in see what falls where, but by no means allow what another doesto controll you or your actions.


That is bull **** THEY ASA does not follow the rules in writting all the time. I was told to ignore the rules and that is that at a state shoot for a youth shooter.DF told him he could shoot a high class at state championship then drop back down at a pro am.
They did not follow the rules where Jerrry was banned either and i took me bugging DF to get him back .He never broke a rule but was banned for 5 yrs.


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## J Whittington (Nov 13, 2009)

I did brake some rules, I said horse chit, a few times and probably bull chit. The profanity rule is the only rule that I remember braking.

To be honest, I was bitter about certain things, I held a little grudge over some issues I shouldn't have, and made a lot of comments that I regret, but have apologized for and no longer have any ill feelings toward Asa staff. There is one that I will never speak to again,nor do I want him speaking to me. Just better that way! I don't need any more temptation, I've sinned enough.

I loved archery probably to much back then. I've got older, fatter, uglier and a lot wiser over the years, but I still make mistakes. I'm far from perfect! With the exception of 1 person, I don't think or aware of anyone in semi who totally hates me. I did confront someone last year for accusing me of cheating. At the time I done so, I felt like I was in the right, but now I regret it. It didn't accomplish anything. 
I'm not a cheater, never have been or will be. A wiseman told me that a person who cheats to win will always know in their hearts that they cheated. Everytime they look at their award, they will always remember how they won. On the outside the cheater exhibit pride, but on the inside, shame will always be there. What few things I've accomplished in archery, I achieved honestly. 
This act of cheating I feel is rare in our sport. I still feel archery is by far the cleanest sport there is. All of us, including bad people like me need to vigorously fight to protect that image


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

This man has stolen thousands of dollars from us, he has potentially stolen sponsorship from deserving shooters because they were losing to him and were looked over because he was winning not them. He has taken award after award from other people who could have been in the spotlight earning the respect that they deserved from their peers but they were again over looked.

Because of people like this when I shot a legitimate good score in nevada mo a couple weeks ago I was looked at as a cheater when I turned in my score card because they didn't know me. My wife has standards that she follows and puts people in prison for stealing money and to be labeled as a felony it doesn't take that much and this man has stolen way more in the last year and earned contengancy money which adds up to a lot when compared to those of us just behind him playing fair and taking the table scraps that are left over.


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## MBNC60x (Apr 12, 2004)

Padgett said:


> This man has stolen thousands of dollars from us, he has potentially stolen sponsorship from deserving shooters because they were losing to him and were looked over because he was winning not them. He has taken award after award from other people who could have been in the spotlight earning the respect that they deserved from their peers but they were again over looked.
> 
> Because of people like this when I shot a legitimate good score in nevada mo a couple weeks ago I was looked at as a cheater when I turned in my score card because they didn't know me. My wife has standards that she follows and puts people in prison for stealing money and to be labeled as a felony it doesn't take that much and this man has stolen way more in the last year and earned contengancy money which adds up to a lot when compared to those of us just behind him playing fair and taking the table scraps that are left over.


I missed something somewhere..... He has stolen thousands of dollars from us????


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## J Whittington (Nov 13, 2009)

More than that! Corey shoots a Mathews, and they pay contingency money for winning semi. 1k, Alpen, arrows, etc.


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## J Whittington (Nov 13, 2009)

No Asa ruling yet! Mikes phone been ringing off da hook!


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## slamnationalley (Jul 5, 2007)

OHIOARCHER36 said:


> Just when i'm ready to try out a new org. You see stuff like this . One thing in life i can't stand is a cheater . Guess i'll pass on asa .


By making this statement, you're saying its ASA's fault and now you're not going to the shoots? That's like going to your favorite restaurant and seeing a server drop your food and never going back to the restaurant! I'm sure this will take care of itself. There's probably not a hole deep enough that he can crawl into in order to hide from this massive embarrassment. If he comes back to shoot then he's got some real balls!!


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## OHIOARCHER36 (Oct 12, 2010)

slamnationalley said:


> By making this statement, you're saying its ASA's fault and now you're not going to the shoots? That's like going to your favorite restaurant and seeing a server drop your food and never going back to the restaurant! I'm sure this will take care of itself. There's probably not a hole deep enough that he can crawl into in order to hide from this massive embarrassment. If he comes back to shoot then he's got some real balls!!


i don't know the guy from adam , don't really care to either . and yeah its asa fault , pro / semi pro should be watched like hawks if ya ask me . if my server drops my food and trys to ''cheat'' me into eating , ''yeah not gonna be a favorite place no more. '' what they should do is banned his ***** for life . how can a person go every month to a asa shoot/local shoot and look his friends in the eyes and say '' i was the better man today .'' he ain't embarassed at all .


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## cinchup1973 (Oct 19, 2011)

You comment as though I'm protecting MV. You have no need to be snide Matt. My intention was to point out that none of us have heard what the competition committee has decided as of yet. And also to say why let one individuals actions have so much effect on the way we conduct ourselves as a group or as individuals. Personally I'm sure there are semi pros that whant him to come back so they can spank him legitimately. If we fall prey to his actions and let it consume our lives to the point we dont compete we are weak and petty. He will never regain the respect of any shooters again, forgive and FORGET is easier said than done. Some may forgive but none will forget! Were he to return the illgotten gains and admit what shoots he cheated during it would be a start. But do you think he will. I highly doubt it since he wont even respond to anyone on FB.


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## cinchup1973 (Oct 19, 2011)

Also to J, yea you got screwed! They may decide to give him heavier sanctions but who knows!


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## killerloop (Mar 16, 2008)

technically, he is a spot poacher!


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## J Whittington (Nov 13, 2009)

Darrin Christenberry is on the CC. I have a lot of respect for him, and I have no doubts that he despises a cheater as much as any one.


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## ttripp (Jun 7, 2004)

wow, so many opinions. might as well throw mine out there. 
from what i am being told the man was flat out caught cheating at THIS event and his score was dq'd.
now we may believe he cheated at other events but we cant prove it so technically they have no bearing on this case.
he will now and forever be looked at and reffered to as a cheater,thief,liar etc. and I would preffer to never be assigned to the same target with him if he does show up and come to k50.
the bottom line is that the archery world as he has known it is over for him and we nor the ASA are going to have any bearing on that as he is the one that created the way he will be viewed and talked about in OUR ARCHERY WORLD.

I hope he voluntarily never shows his face again.


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## J Whittington (Nov 13, 2009)

cinchup1973 said:


> Also to J, yea you got screwed! They may decide to give him heavier sanctions but who knows!


I did, but I'm over it now. Little disappointed in the fact that I'll never be a sponsored shooter as a result, but there's more to life than just archery.


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## J Whittington (Nov 13, 2009)

Tracy he had the same binocs in LA, Same routine of hiding them and covering them with a towel in his stool /chair, I was just to stupid to notice it.





ttripp said:


> wow, so many opinions. might as well throw mine out there.
> from what i am being told the man was flat out caught cheating at THIS event and his score was dq'd.
> now we may believe he cheated at other events but we cant prove it so technically they have no bearing on this case.
> he will now and forever be looked at and reffered to as a cheater,thief,liar etc. and I would preffer to never be assigned to the same target with him if he does show up and come to k50.
> ...


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## noXcuses (Jan 19, 2010)

Same routine at Florida and alabama ibo. Covering with the towel


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## ttripp (Jun 7, 2004)

jerry, we all know that and we all know he is a thief,cheat and liar and he can never shake that moniker now.

we as a family of shooters have voiced our opinions and it is obvious that none of us want him back in our game and i doubt we will ever see him again.

anyhow, hope to see you guys in augusta if i can get any time off to shoot.


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## cinchup1973 (Oct 19, 2011)

Mike posted in the General discussion topic about this today on page 11 that the competition comittee is still investigating and will finish said investigations and impose sanctions at that point, he also thanked all contributors of information to the comp committee. So there has been NO RULING as of yet by the CC.


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

What about the FACT that we have, besides the rule violation...that has a "penalty" written in to it, the CODE OF ETHICS violations and UNSPORTSMAN-LIKE conduct by knowingly violating the rule on rangefinders and openly trying to HIDE IT from everyone? 

Again..>CODE OF ETHICS, and UNSPORTSMAN-LIKE conduct...should be enough for a one-year suspension. He has STOLEN from fellow archers...and has down-graded himself to a "shooter", because ARCHERS don't pull these kinds of shenanigans!

I hope that the CC doesn't forget about CODE OF ETHICS and UNSPORTSMAN-LIKE conduct...those are much more severe of offenses than carrying a range-finder! STEALING is pretty serious stuff!

field14 (Tom D.)


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## markb317 (Nov 18, 2009)

I think in the rules it also says that you are to be able to see the entire 8-10-12and 14 ring on the targets, but at a National shoot in 2009 one stake was set so you could only see the 10 ring and part of the 8 ring. The groups on both sides of this stake checked it before the shoot started and called a range official over and she said that she would not move it. THIS IS NOT FOLLOWING THE RULES THAT ARE IN WRITING......


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

Member posted this. Can anyone else confirm this? Is his stand he was not using them today still the same?


I've talked to two friends of friends of Michael Vincent. He denies using the perfectly disguised binoculars. I hope he can find another garage sale pair that works for him. I'm done with this. His career will always be tarnished


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## dgmeadows (Jun 15, 2005)

markb317 said:


> I think in the rules it also says that you are to be able to see the entire 8-10-12and 14 ring on the targets, but at a National shoot in 2009 one stake was set so you could only see the 10 ring and part of the 8 ring. The groups on both sides of this stake checked it before the shoot started and called a range official over and she said that she would not move it. THIS IS NOT FOLLOWING THE RULES THAT ARE IN WRITING......


Sorry, but these are much different apples than the orange that you are talking about. I agree with you that all the rules should be followed - if the shooters are to limit their bows to no more than 288 fps, then the lanes should be clear and the "max" yardage should really be "max", not stretched to +4 or 5 over. HOWEVER, when those situations have occurred (limb blocking view, or target at 49 yards on a 45 yard max course) presumably everyone was confronted with the same problem, and no one shooter committed the violation or individually benefitted from it. Here, it appears one shooter created a clear advantage for himself by using a prohibited device in an unknown distance category. 

When you were confronted with the obstruction to the view of the target, you followed the rules and called a range official. If they refused to correct it, or worse, did not correct it for you but another official did for later groups, I suppose you could have filed a complaint with the Competition Committee, but I do not see how any of that has any bearing on this situation. Surely you are not saying that because a range official refused to correct something you felt was not in keeping with the rules in 2009, that all the rules are bogus and this fellow should get a pass ??


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## drtnshtr (Jan 20, 2003)

Im with TTripp on this one I dont think he will show his face again anytime in the near future.


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## Bowhunterark (Aug 23, 2011)

wow alotta opinions on here. it really all boils down to facts are facts and we all have to let this play out and then decide after the verdict what we all think should be down otherwise. i agree with alot of what has been said and disagree with the others. i would be highly pissed too if i was chasing this guy and puttin so much effort into shooting and becoming a better person.......the honest way!! i really hope asa adjust all standings for the HONEST shooters behind him. otherwise we have one of the best sports in the world and everyone in this sport is like family............dont let one bad apple ruin the orchard.


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## dw'struth (Mar 14, 2008)

drtnshtr said:


> Im with TTripp on this one I dont think he will show his face again anytime in the near future.


Maybe......maybe not. If the reports that he is still denying it are true, he may be right back out there soon as he is allowed to be.


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## markb317 (Nov 18, 2009)

What I'm saying is that the ASA does not always follow what the written rules are. Even being a first offense he should get more then just DQ'd for one shoot...


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## EROS (Feb 15, 2004)

After reading some of the threads I wouldnot want to be him. If I was shooting in GA and he got assigned to the same stake I was at, I would just ask to be moved. He is paying a higher price for what he has done. Like I mentioned before could care less about what the ASA thinks.


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## JimmyP (Feb 11, 2006)

let the committee make there ruling and the support it yes were mad and hurt.i would not want to be him. i once stood at the foot of the cross condemned with no hope,a enemy of God ,WITH MY SINS in front of me.now i sing amazing grace.the committee will rule,he will be punished and we have to let it go.and forgive.well i guess you dont have to its a choice,let it eat away at you or let it go.


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## J Whittington (Nov 13, 2009)

Jimmy you are 100% correct. I believe to receive forgivness you must ask for it and repent of your sins. If MV ask for it and repents (tells us the truth and comes clean) I will have no problem shooting with him again.




QUOTE=JimmyP;1063768218]let the committee make there ruling and the support it yes were mad and hurt.i would not want to be him. i once stood at the foot of the cross condemned with no hope,a enemy of God ,WITH MY SINS in front of me.now i sing amazing grace.the committee will rule,he will be punished and we have to let it go.and forgive.well i guess you dont have to its a choice,let it eat away at you or let it go.[/QUOTE]


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## JimmyP (Feb 11, 2006)

they want let want he done with a free pass whether he admits the truth or not he admitted using those bino's all year the rule states no range finders on the range.he is guilty,now if he thinks we are all stupid and say he did not use themor did not know.when a range official notices in 30 seconds.i have shot with him and he appears to be a great guy,we all want to win but at what cost.we are not stupid, well maybe a little.i could go straight to the pro class if i was using rf and they was not but still would beat some of them,with that said he shot a 195 on sat.if he used them sat ,he stinks


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## JumphogUSMC (May 3, 2010)

Bowjoe1972 said:


> What wrong with them ???
> View attachment 1324873


Now that's FUNNY!!


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## ohbuckhunter (Sep 18, 2008)

osuhunter2011 said:


> I can see mandatory optic checks at IBO and ASA events now. Good to see the strong feelings come from other shooters. He should be banned!


Kinda like changing your score in the pooper


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## J Whittington (Nov 13, 2009)

Time to let this go guys. It's done, time to move on


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