# John Eberhart vs . Dan Infalt



## chaded (Jan 15, 2011)

Just finished part one. Pretty good podcast so far.


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## eskimoohunt (Dec 21, 2008)

I haven't listened to these yet but I will.

I've read Johns books and have listened to some of his interviews. The scent speal is hard for me to buy from anyone. But I've learned some things from him. He's a big saddle guy too but again not my cup of tea

I've listen to ALL of Infalts podcasts and have watched his videos. I've learned more form Dan in a these than all of my 30 years of bow hunting....


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## Blackeagle1 (Aug 19, 2014)

Both great hunters. Just because John says he does something doesn't mean he actually practices it in the field. I think I've learned more from Dan also.


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## BowhunterT100 (Feb 5, 2009)

I've definitely learned more from watching and listening to Dan.


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## NCAVI8TOR (Oct 5, 2003)

I have enjoyed everything Dan Infalt has put out! I believe he is the real deal without any sponsorship bias or influences. The other feller, not so much!

NC


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## lakertown24 (Mar 3, 2013)

I agree Dan is a real deal genuine dude and always willing to explain what he knows.


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## d_rek (Nov 26, 2013)

I'm just starting to get into beast tactics but I've read Johns books and been listening to him speak for a few years now. He definitely accelerated my learning and has helped me hunt sign more effectively. 

Both are excellent and very well accomplished hunters. When either talks I try to listen and, even if what they're saying doesn't fit my personal style of hunting, understand that their success is based on their confidence in their tactics. Great podcat and will definitely be looking forward to parts 2 and 3. 


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## chaded (Jan 15, 2011)

chaded said:


> Just finished part one. Pretty good podcast so far.


Just finished part 2. I am liking the debate between these two.


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## hawkdriver55 (Sep 6, 2010)

Don't know the Eberhart guy, But Dan has more deer hunting knowledge than just about anyone I have seen. I watched his last video and had to take it in at 45 minute blocks. I kept going back and rewatching segments. I hunt 90% hill country and after watching his video, everything that I had been seeing in the hill country woods started to make since.

I like his videos. He isn't a pretty clean cut "FANBOY" that the sponsors are after which is fine with me because in his videos he isn't trying to sale anything other than his experience and knowledge. I will take the advice of a guy in a ragged out flannel shirt that puts down big bucks on public land year after year, over the advice of a TV show guy wearing high priced camo that someone paid him to wear, that kills private land deer.

Like I said......Not bashing the Ebernart guy because I don't know him....but Dan is the man.


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## brodie1978 (Jul 24, 2008)

dan > john


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## GVDocHoliday (Jan 20, 2003)

I've read John's books. He's wind and scent control anal. I'm surprised to hear him say he doesn't hunt the wind.


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## boonerbrad (Nov 30, 2006)

Don't know John but anyone claiming they don't worry about the wind is selling something i ain't buying. And scent loc has been on that list since it came out. Dan only regurgitates what he learned from Andrae. And i can promise you every successful trophy hunter plays the wind. Even if they are sponsored by scent loc, ozonics or any other gimmick scent control product.


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## Matt Musto (May 12, 2008)

Wind is all I worry about. I don't have a fancy scent suit, so I depend on dousing my clothes in scent spray, hunting the wind and hoping if the wind swirls, it is not when I have a shooter buck in the vicinity.


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## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

Both are great hunters with different approaches to hunting.

scentlok?.......:lol:

Eberhardts tactics are more applicable for most hunters.

Dan is probably the better woodsman by far.

scentlok???......yup, that's all a crock. But I take what I can use and leave the rest.


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## nick060200 (Jul 5, 2010)

well when your up in a tree 25' the wind doesn't matter as much as when your on the ground, and since he hunts mostly from a saddle way up in a tree, his statement about not caring about the wind that much is probably mostly true. not sure why everyone thinks its a conspiracy.


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## Darrens6601 (Jul 16, 2015)

nick060200 said:


> well when your up in a tree 25' the wind doesn't matter as much as when your on the ground, and since he hunts mostly from a saddle way up in a tree, his statement about not caring about the wind that much is probably mostly true. not sure why everyone thinks its a conspiracy.


I think because of the way he gives the credit to scent loc suit and not the distance he's off the ground. 


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## BeastModeHunter (Sep 5, 2016)

Dan is the man!


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## AntlerNerd (Jun 9, 2017)

I'd take Dan's advice on the deer woods over just about anyone else's.


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## patriotoutlaw (Sep 17, 2013)

Both are successful in their pursuit of whitetails. I give kudos to John on the way he hunts, (high and from a sling) and being in great shape for his age. But...Dan is the man! John talks in absolutes. The fact that Dan (you) can locate a buck bed after season, slip back in there and kill that/a buck from that bed the following season was "The craziest thing he ever heard", according to John. The craziest thing I ever heard?... "Forget the wind, just hunt".


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## bowhuntnsteve (Jul 1, 2006)

What's the podcast called of Dan's to listen to him?


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## Boxerboxer (Feb 19, 2016)

bowhuntnsteve said:


> What's the podcast called of Dan's to listen to him?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You can search his name on the iTunes store for other people's podcasts he's appeared on. His podcast is on the Hunting Beast YouTube channel. 


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## bowhuntnsteve (Jul 1, 2006)

Boxerboxer said:


> You can search his name on the iTunes store for other people's podcasts he's appeared on. His podcast is on the Hunting Beast YouTube channel.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thanks, for some reason my iPhone doesn't have a place for podcasts and I am unable to find the iTunes one that other phones have come with.


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## Boxerboxer (Feb 19, 2016)

bowhuntnsteve said:


> Thanks, for some reason my iPhone doesn't have a place for podcasts and I am unable to find the iTunes one that other phones have come with.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Search "podcasts" in the App Store. You can use the Apple one by that name or any number of 3rd party ones that will let you search the Apple stuff. Stitcher works reasonably well, for example. 


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## BeastModeHunter (Sep 5, 2016)

I think Dan would win in a wrestling match too. :smile:


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## Blackeagle1 (Aug 19, 2014)

GVDocHoliday said:


> I've read John's books. He's wind and scent control anal. I'm surprised to hear him say he doesn't hunt the wind.


Look at his sponsors. Forget the wind, just hunt.


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## Darrens6601 (Jul 16, 2015)

Blackeagle1 said:


> Look at his sponsors. Forget the wind, just hunt.


Being from Michigan ive followed him for a while . If I heard him right he said he hasn't worried about the wind since the 80s ?? He use to tell everyone how important it was to hunt the wind and be cautious of swirling winds etc. It seems the scent loc suit has given him selective memory.. 


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## 20feetup214 (Sep 6, 2017)

I don't think you can really compare the two or say one person is a "better hunter", they are both amazingly successful hunters but have two totally different styles of hunting. I live in the area that John hunts a lot in southern MI, and for him to be killing the deer that he does in this area is pretty amazing. The amount of pressure that these grounds get is intense, from Oct. 1 archery/crossbow season to the orange army of the Nov. 15 gun season, which essentially goes until Jan 1 now. I don't totally agree with some of his beliefs on scent control either, but I have read his books and he gets total respect from me. I think the biggest factor in their success (John and his son Chris) is the year round scouting and preparation. John has said in a few podcasts that he doesn't really care about the wind, and he is obviously a firm believer in activated carbon technology, but I don't think it's all sponsor driven. He really knows all of the science behind it and he really believes in it. Listen to Podcast #18 of "Deer Hunter Podcast", I think that is the one where he goes in to his beliefs on the science of activated carbon. If you honestly believe that something works that's half the success right there. That being said, I think he is also a scent control nut, not just showers and washing, but to the extent of changing his diet during hunting season, etc. So that probably plays a big role in the success he may have with deer downwind regardless of whether or not the activated carbon works or not. You can't argue with his results on HIGHLY pressured public ground. Dan Infalt is also a slayer in the deer woods, but really a totally different style, and his podcasts, videos, and forum are pretty entertaining and informative, so they both get much respect from me.


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## Boxerboxer (Feb 19, 2016)

bowhuntnsteve said:


> Thanks, for some reason my iPhone doesn't have a place for podcasts and I am unable to find the iTunes one that other phones have come with.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Search "podcasts" in the App Store. You can use the Apple one by that name or any number of 3rd party ones that will let you search the Apple stuff. Stitcher works reasonably well, for example. 


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## ppkaprince98 (Mar 13, 2008)

I really like Dan also. He is as real as it gets, explains things very well and shows you everything he does. He is proof that you dont need a fancy super fast bow, expensive camo or anything to kill big bucks!!


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## chaded (Jan 15, 2011)

Here is the podcats without having to find them in itunes and whatnot. http://www.downsouthhunting.com


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## gjs4 (Jan 10, 2006)

What both have in common with every successful individual in their respective realm is learning on their own and not caving in to comparison ..... until now. 


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## bowhuntnsteve (Jul 1, 2006)

chaded said:


> Here is the podcats without having to find them in itunes and whatnot. http://www.downsouthhunting.com


Thank you!


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## Quicksliver (Nov 22, 2006)

20feetup214 said:


> If you honestly believe that something works that's half the success right there. That being said, I think he is also a scent control nut, not just showers and washing, but to the extent of changing his diet during hunting season, etc. So that probably plays a big role in the success he may have with deer downwind regardless of whether or not the activated carbon works or not.


Please read those sentences again. How does that make sense?

Truly believing something provides no function. False confidence is simply false confidence. I can believe in unaided human flight all I want, but that won't ever get me an inch off the ground. How can believing he's not able to be winded alter the ability of deer to smell him if activated carbon doesn't work? I'm not trying to pick a fight, but those sentences just don't make any sense to me.


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## eskimoohunt (Dec 21, 2008)

Ok I've listened to both pods I've listened and watched all of Dans pods and vids I've Also listened to several other of johns interviews and have read 2 of his books Both are very successful but I can apply Dans approach for myself. The whole being invisible scent thing I think imo is more of a dream or hope. I do appreciate johns teaching of destination areas and primary scrape areas

I can tel you I haven't found either. I have found beds and trails that lead to beds as Dan taught.


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## Darrens6601 (Jul 16, 2015)

eskimoohunt said:


> Ok I've listened to both pods I've listened and watched all of Dans pods and vids I've Also listened to several other of johns interviews and have read 2 of his books Both are very successful but I can apply Dans approach for myself. The whole being invisible scent thing I think imo is more of a dream or hope. I do appreciate johns teaching of destination areas and primary scrape areas
> 
> I can tel you I haven't found either. I have found beds and trails that lead to beds as Dan taught.


That would be my experience also. 


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## emrah (Aug 28, 2012)

Scentlock/blocker/magic pixie dust suit... what a crock. Eberhart hunts skyscraper high. I wouldn't worry either and believe my "magic" suit.

Dan is legit. I've picked up more knowledge from him and had "holy crap! Now I see it!" Moments from him in just a few short months than in all my years hunting combined.

Emrah 


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## Blackeagle1 (Aug 19, 2014)

Both good hunters. One makes his living hunting so info may be slightly biased.The other doesn't.


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## nockedup (Nov 5, 2007)

FWIW, Eberhart also hunts 25+ ft off the ground. I think that plays a huge part in his hunting without worrying about the wind. 
He is a damn good hunter with a delibearate and detailed scent control regimen. 
Scent lok is just a layer to an already airtight process.


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## eskimoohunt (Dec 21, 2008)

emrah said:


> Scentlock/blocker/magic pixie dust suit... what a crock. Eberhart hunts skyscraper high. I wouldn't worry either and believe my "magic" suit.
> 
> Dan is legit. I've picked up more knowledge from him and had "holy crap! Now I see it!" Moments from him in just a few short months than in all my years hunting combined.
> 
> ...


Amen to that.... I found some of my for sure first beds last week. From on what I've learned from Dan. Simply amazing imo


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## kurtzgreg1561 (Aug 30, 2016)

eskimoohunt said:


> I haven't listened to these yet but I will.
> 
> I've read Johns books and have listened to some of his interviews. The scent speal is hard for me to buy from anyone. But I've learned some things from him. He's a big saddle guy too but again not my cup of tea
> 
> I've listen to ALL of Infalts podcasts and have watched his videos. I've learned more form Dan in a these than all of my 30 years of bow hunting....


X2! Infalt is the Hunting beast for a reason. One of the most knowledgeable bowhunters out there. Wish I would found him 40 years ago woulda shortened my extensive learning curve ALOT![emoji6]

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## hillscreekkid (Sep 4, 2012)

I need to take a listen to this. Sounds fun.


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## optimal_max (Oct 26, 2010)

I'm with John. Scent clothing doesn't stop all human odor, but it may block some and I'll take that advantage (but will only buy it on clearance).

I know for a fact that scent sprays work, though they may not remove all scents. Had a pair of my son's soccer shoes that stunk so bad you could smell them across the room. Sprayed some (I think it was Primos silver) into each shoe and it was a miracle, the stink was gone.


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## Dloat (Feb 25, 2017)

bowhuntnsteve said:


> What's the podcast called of Dan's to listen to him?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The hunting beast podcast is available from the podcast app called "speaker", it's not on apples podcast player if you want more


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## Quicksliver (Nov 22, 2006)

Dloat said:


> The hunting beast podcast is available from the podcast app called "speaker", it's not on apples podcast player if you want more


Is it "Spreaker"? Couldn't find "Speaker".

The 2 Down South were good. Been a registered lurker on THB for a little more than a year, lots of good stuff.


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## Quicksliver (Nov 22, 2006)

Quicksliver said:


> Is it "Spreaker"? Couldn't find "Speaker".
> 
> The 2 Down South were good. Been a registered lurker on THB for a little more than a year, lots of good stuff.


Found it. Spreaker


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## 20feetup214 (Sep 6, 2017)

Quicksliver said:


> Please read those sentences again. How does that make sense?
> 
> Truly believing something provides no function. False confidence is simply false confidence. I can believe in unaided human flight all I want, but that won't ever get me an inch off the ground. How can believing he's not able to be winded alter the ability of deer to smell him if activated carbon doesn't work? I'm not trying to pick a fight, but those sentences just don't make any sense to me.


Right, that's a valid point. I wasn't implying that it makes it function any better, I just meant that may be why he preaches so strongly on the subject. Not so much that he is fluffing sponsors but that he really does believe in the stuff. And that perhaps he attributes more of it to activated carbon but it's really the entire package of things, from his scent regimen and preparation to his actual hunting set up and location, that make the difference.


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## tbsportsman (Aug 15, 2013)

Dloat said:


> The hunting beast podcast is available from the podcast app called "speaker", it's not on apples podcast player if you want more


It's on Apple podcast now. Added last week

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## ozzz (Jul 30, 2010)

patriotoutlaw said:


> Both are successful in their pursuit of whitetails. I give kudos to John on the way he hunts, (high and from a sling) and being in great shape for his age. But...Dan is the man! John talks in absolutes. The fact that Dan (you) can locate a buck bed after season, slip back in there and kill that/a buck from that bed the following season was "The craziest thing he ever heard", according to John. The craziest thing I ever heard?... "Forget the wind, just hunt".


Well put. I have of course read all johns stuff and he is no doubt. good hunter but Dan is at that next level.

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## Quicksliver (Nov 22, 2006)

20feetup214 said:


> Right, that's a valid point. I wasn't implying that it makes it function any better, I just meant that may be why he preaches so strongly on the subject. Not so much that he is fluffing sponsors but that he really does believe in the stuff. And that perhaps he attributes more of it to activated carbon but it's really the entire package of things, from his scent regimen and preparation to his actual hunting set up and location, that make the difference.


Ok, I get that. That makes sense and in line with what I think gives him his success. Obviously activated carbon works, but not to the extent advertised.


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## Darrens6601 (Jul 16, 2015)

Kinda did my own experiment with carbon clothes a few years back . I read the article dan discusses about the dogs. I have a couple excellent rabbit dogs . I took my buddy's new scent coat charged it in dryer for 45 minutes . We then took a rabbit we shot wrapped it up in the coat and put the coat in one of those green scent bags they sell for storing gear. I should've recorded it I hid that thing all over a 5 acre parcel and the dogs found it every time in less then 10 minutes. I know it's not the most scientific way to prove or disprove the effectiveness of carbon but it sure put a lot of doubt in my mind if the stuff works. I'm seeing articles now saying even the antibacterial clothing treated with silver is even a scam . Studies are showing it washes out in two washing or less. Gotta play the wind if you want to be certain your not gonna get busted by the old whitetails nose . 


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## Vexie (Nov 3, 2015)

I don't hunt 35 or 30 or even 25 feet in the air, I'm normally around 20, so scent it a huge deal for me when I'm in a tree. Plus now I'm trying to hunt on the ground, so it's becoming an even bigger issue. But I'm wise enough and I don't have any ego about using scent loc or sprays. I know they're not 100% but does it have to be 100% to be helpful?

I've sprayed my boot and had deer walk down my same path and not spook. Yet, one time I had a deer cross my path and spook. Checked my boot and sure as ****, found a hole.
I've had deer downwind of me and not spook, while wearing my scent loc. Never had that happen when I've been out scouting. 

I don't know what happened between the two of them that they can't be interviewed together but I think it's pretty silly ego BS. For John to be saying he don't worry about deer being downwind yet he hunts 30+ feet... silly. For Dan to admit he's spooked deer and no way scent loc might have helped yet turn around and say, even if you get in the stand and the wind is blowing the wrong way, go ahead and hunt... silly.

But I tell you what else... I have bought all of Dan's stuff, listen to his videos and I have bought all of John's stuff, you know what I don't have? Anyone else's, because I don't think there is another hunter that compares to the two of them. John has taken 19 P&Y deer in 21 weeks of hunting out of state and another 30 in Michigan; which truly may be the hardest pressured state. Dan is a fantastic teacher with what 30 P&Y quality deer. I'm not going to waste any of my time trying to figure out who is better, whenever either one of them speaks, I'm just going to sit here and take notes... while wearing my scent loc.


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## KRONIIK (Jun 3, 2014)

Vexie said:


> I don't hunt 35 or 30 or even 25 feet in the air, I'm normally around 20, so scent it a huge deal for me when I'm in a tree. Plus now I'm trying to hunt on the ground, so it's becoming an even bigger issue. But I'm wise enough and I don't have any ego about using scent loc or sprays. I know they're not 100% but does it have to be 100% to be helpful?
> 
> I've sprayed my boot and had deer walk down my same path and not spook. Yet, one time I had a deer cross my path and spook. Checked my boot and sure as ****, found a hole.
> I've had deer downwind of me and not spook, while wearing my scent loc. Never had that happen when I've been out scouting.
> ...


 I don't know, but I don't think anything happened between them to cause hard feelings or anything; they probably just weren't available to interview at the same times. 
Neither seemed to even really know a lot about the other.
I'd bet they could get together over lunch and have a great time together, talking and arguing about, well, ...*stuff.*.!

(Cars, trucks, womenz, politics, etc.)


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## kyler1945 (Oct 16, 2012)

Dogs are trained to get a clue (a whiff of what they're hunting for), and like a catfish, follow the scent cone to the source. They get rewarded for doing so. This is nowhere near a useful comparison. 

A deer is not trained to run towards human odor. Their instincts compel them to do the opposite - when they smell danger, they avoid it. But it isn't absolute - there is a threshold that must be met in order to cause a deer to change behavior, and the threshold is on a spectrum for every different deer.

Also, deer don't realize we can shoot them from a distance. They don't want to be in close quarters with us. But how do they know if they are in close quarters if they can't see or hear you? Scent- And how do they quantify it? By the amount of scent. A deer can't process how 'fresh' our stench is - but they can process how much of it is there, and use that information to determine if danger is close or passed a long time ago.

I think John's point is that if you take it to the extreme that he does, you can trick a deer into thinking that the human odor they smell (I think we all agree they will smell some) is either far away, or left in the past.

I also think he makes it perfectly clear (at least every thing I've heard him say) that it's pretty much an all or nothing thing. Most people aren't willing to put the effort and discipline into that type of scent control. I know I'm not - hunting is a hobby for me. I take it seriously, but I don't think I can make that type of commitment. The better option for me is to use the wind to my advantage. But I don't think its all nonsense because I'm not willing to do it properly.

I personally have taken a lot from both guys. I think it's very 2017 of them to get sucked into a debate. It doesn't propagate knowledge, it just turns into a schoolyard shouting match.


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## ShaneC (Oct 21, 2007)

kyler1945 said:


> Dogs are trained to get a clue (a whiff of what they're hunting for), and like a catfish, follow the scent cone to the source. They get rewarded for doing so. This is nowhere near a useful comparison.
> 
> A deer is not trained to run towards human odor. Their instincts compel them to do the opposite - when they smell danger, they avoid it. But it isn't absolute - there is a threshold that must be met in order to cause a deer to change behavior, and the threshold is on a spectrum for every different deer.
> 
> ...


I have listened to both podcast and it is far from a schoolyard shouting match. What I liked is it took two very successful hunters that have two different philosophies on scent control and blended it together in one podcast.. You get to hear how they are both successful using their methods, then it is up to you to determine which is better for your style of hunting, or maybe a blend of both. 

For me I am in the middle of both of their styles. I try to keep my clothes as scent free as possible, by washing and storing them in scent free totes, and I also play the wind. I have learned a lot from both hunters and their styles of hunting.


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## Vexie (Nov 3, 2015)

KRONIIK said:


> I don't know, but I don't think anything happened between them to cause hard feelings or anything; they probably just weren't available to interview at the same times.
> Neither seemed to even really know a lot about the other.
> I'd bet they could get together over lunch and have a great time together, talking and arguing about, well, ...*stuff.*.!
> 
> (Cars, trucks, womenz, politics, etc.)


Except the host said at the beginning that, that was his intention; but that wasn't going to be possible because they couldn't get along.


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## KRONIIK (Jun 3, 2014)

Vexie said:


> Except the host said at the beginning that, that was his intention; but that wasn't going to be possible because they couldn't get along.


 Ok, so I listened to it again and you're right. 
He basically said that it quickly became apparent that that would not go well.
Too bad, really.
I would have liked to hear it though!


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## Doorny22 (Jul 9, 2010)

I have been watching and listening to both guys more this year. I relate to John's scent tactics more than Dan. I learned a lot from John about scouting but I learn where to scout from Dan. I think Dan is hunting a different type of deer than Michigan deer. In the first podcast about these guys Dan said most times he hunts in his work boots and clothes then proceeded to say that most deer that smell him don't spook??!! Even though he is mostly public land it clearly isn't high pressure. That won't fly in MI or any truly pressured hunting states. Both guys are successful in there own ways but I like Dan's approach to using maps to target areas to scout but I much prefer John's methods of scent control and tactics for scouting. Why not try to control as much of your odor as possible as opposed to smelling like a trash can in and out of the woods.


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## Freelance Bowhunter (Sep 7, 2010)

kyler1945 said:


> Dogs are trained to get a clue (a whiff of what they're hunting for), and like a catfish, follow the scent cone to the source. They get rewarded for doing so. This is nowhere near a useful comparison.
> 
> A deer is not trained to run towards human odor. Their instincts compel them to do the opposite - when they smell danger, they avoid it. But it isn't absolute - there is a threshold that must be met in order to cause a deer to change behavior, and the threshold is on a spectrum for every different deer.
> 
> ...



Very good post and well thought out, although I disagree with the part you said that I put in red. Deer can gauge a scent's age. How does a buck know which way to follow the trail of a hot doe? He can turn and trot 10 feet with his nose to the ground and then turn around 180 degrees and follow the track the right way. I have seen it. I have also seen deer follow scent put on a drag rag. If he was following which way the scent was stronger, he would follow it the wrong way every time, but he follows it the correct way because he knows which way is older. Make sense?


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## ehan69 (Feb 20, 2016)

When I watch Dan's video's I take notes, especially on the first three "Blood Brother's" DVD's. This is because their/his DVD's are so information-dense that I have no reasonable hope of learning what they/Dan are talking about simply by watching. 

When I say I take notes, I play about a minute of the DVD and then type what was said. I use the DVD chapters to make an initial outline and then fill it in as the dvd plays as this avoids leaving gaps. Then whenever I am bored, like at the DMV I review the pdf of my notes on my phone and consider how to apply their/Dan's techniques to where I have available to hunt. Last year was my first attempt at implementing Dan's tactics and Gol Dang they worked!

Even while I reconsider not hauling all my extensive inventory of scent control items into the woods because of the weight involved, at the same time it sure is no fun to have to get down out and move trees when the wind shifts as Dan/Blood Brothers recommend. This in turn makes me feel like I am doing something wrong because Dan talks about switching trees even multiple times in the same day when the wind shifts however by the time I get done dragging my equipment, self, and weapon a mile into the woods and up a tree all before dawn my [*] is kicked so hard I am pretty much not moving when my milkweed seed blows through my expected ambush point. This may be because I recently weighed all the items I haul into the woods and it came out to 100 lbs, not counting what I'm wearing in? 

I never imagine me completely giving up scent control, however my implementation may transition simply to treating my hunting clothes, gear, and weapon with ozone beforehand? In the meantime, until I wear out the vast amount of scent control clothing I purchased before stumbling onto Dan's tactics (I thought "Hill Country Bucks" was about Texas Hill Country) I supposed I will continue to wear it. 

Scentlok/Scent Blocker is designed for hunting and is definitely less expensive than Sitka which because Sitka sold the UCP/ACU camo pattern to the army and sucks/ed so bad I will never voluntarily buy their product.


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## Quicksliver (Nov 22, 2006)

ehan69 said:


> When I watch Dan's video's I take notes, especially on the first three "Blood Brother's" DVD's. This is because their/his DVD's are so information-dense that I have no reasonable hope of learning what they/Dan are talking about simply by watching.
> 
> When I say I take notes, I play about a minute of the DVD and then type what was said. I use the DVD chapters to make an initial outline and then fill it in as the dvd plays as this avoids leaving gaps. Then whenever I am bored, like at the DMV I review the pdf of my notes on my phone and consider how to apply their/Dan's techniques to where I have available to hunt. Last year was my first attempt at implementing Dan's tactics and Gol Dang they worked!
> 
> ...


100 pounds? What's your gear list??


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## ehan69 (Feb 20, 2016)

I was waiting for that, gear list as follows:

Muddy Bloodsport stand 
Muddy Pro Climbing sticks x4
Tree Spider Safety Harness
Scentlok Coveralls
Scentlok Base layer
Scentlok/Scent Blocker medium layer
A fleece layer
Scentlok jacket
Scentlock outer pants
Kayak dry bag to carry it all in
Blackhawk ACU assault pack with flexible fame piece
2-3 Monster energy drinks
Small Binos
Nikon Rangefinder
Ozonics, two batteries, tree mount
Various pop tarts
Hand warmers
Toe warmers
Milkweed seeds
Camo eye pro
Bump Helmet
Some rope
Knife
Hand warmer muff
Tree saw
Bow tree arm
Sandwiches
Gloves, liners and outer pair
Socks 2 pair
Rocky RKYS059 Core Rubber 16" Hunting Boot Camo 13M
Some scent Spray
Grunt call
Iphone, cord, and extended release battery.
Gerber tool
For a minute I tried carrying my Rancho Safari Ghilli suit including hat, however that adds at least 30lbs to the mix. 
Scorpyd vtec crossbow (last year)
Rope cocking device
Quickie 3 arrow quiver
Quickie quiver mount
3 arrows 460gr each
Some sandwiches,
Candy bars,
Whatever else is in the bottom of my pack that I failed to remove
Muddy treestand safety line with carabiner and rubber cover
The problem then comes when trying to implement this full on scent control strategy because I have to leave at least an extra hour early because that is approximately how long it takes me to change out of the army camo and boots I wear in 200 meters from where I plan to hunt, and then after that walk and effort I am huffing, puffing, and sweating gallons in 15 degree weather as I try to get up the tree yet in the dark somewhat quietly. 

Where do you think the error is?


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## ehan69 (Feb 20, 2016)

I should add:
Leupold MK4 MR/T 3x9 scope
HHA optimizer
And at least three hats


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## ehan69 (Feb 20, 2016)

I should add:
Leupold MK4 MR/T 3x9 scope
HHA optimizer
And at least three hats


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## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

A guy never has enough hats........:lol:


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## ehan69 (Feb 20, 2016)

At least with all that junk on I am warm and able to pay attention to my surroundings, i.e. hunt. Back in the 80's I quit hunting for 20 years because I would carry a mummy bag into the woods with me and try to get in it to stay warm. The issue became that the higher I zipped the bag the more sleepy I became and inevitably I would fall asleep. I quit hunting for 20 years after the time I went to the woods, leaned my rifle against the tree with the stand in it, rolled my sleeping bag out on the ground, climbed in, and went to sleep. 

I mean why bother with all the dangerous stuff on climbing the tree and falling asleep in the stand, cut out the middle man and just go to sleep on the ground. That was partially due to the boredom of never seen anything worth shooting, much less any deer at all. 

Fast forward to today and combine the above with Dan's tactics of walking a mile in anywhere (I cannot imagine a swamp) and IT SUCKS! It does not suck as bad as staying at home and sleeping late, however it definitely sucks. But I see dozens of deer, and almost always shooter bucks. So the pain is worth the payoff at the moment.


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## ehan69 (Feb 20, 2016)

Thanks zap.

Heck, in Iraq in '07-'08 as a SAW gunner my basic load consisted of: 
600 rds 5.56 linked, 
IOTV with front, back, and side plates
100oz camelbak
IFAK first aid kit
AN/PVS-14's
Kevlar Helmet
Paratrooper M249 SAW
AN/PEQ-2 IR laser aiming device
Aimpoint, M48 CCO
Surefire TACLIGHT
SAW rail system
Gloves,
Clear and Dark Eye Pro
I think that alone weighs close to 100lbs
Now imagine clearing blocks of Iraqi Mahallas (neighborhoods) in 120+ heat with all that on,
You have to climb at least two flights of stairs per house, while at the same time maintaining your SA (Situational Awareness).


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## ehan69 (Feb 20, 2016)

Oh yeah, that is by doctrine the Army Squad Automatic Gunners basic, i.e. you have to wear the crap, load and, now,
they are letting women into the infantry ...


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## ehan69 (Feb 20, 2016)

We all love pics:


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## ehan69 (Feb 20, 2016)

More pics:


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## 6x5BC (Nov 20, 2014)

ehan69 said:


> I was waiting for that, gear list as follows:
> 
> Muddy Bloodsport stand
> Muddy Pro Climbing sticks x4
> ...


What kind of success on mature deer has this obsession with packing a sporting goods store to the woods with you yielded? Just curious. I'm impressed with your physical endurance and drive. You obviously love to hunt and that's great. Personally, I've never been that mad at myself or the deer. I've killed 33 bucks over 140" in my 50 years on this earth and I've worked fairly hard for most but not all of them. I can say that if hunting required that much effort, at my age and health condition, I'd have to just quit. I'm extremely scent cautious with my body and gear and I use the wind to my advantage as much as possible. But, I still try to enjoy the sport and think that a hunter doesn't need to get anal about this stuff. At the end of the day, hunting in great areas for big mature bucks will produce results over any other variable in hunting. Tactics and preparation are important everywhere, but a guy can still make a mistake every now and then and still kill older age bucks when he's hunting good ground. Deer hunting to me isn't SEAL training and I don't think it has to be. 
If some guys enjoy going at it like life depends on it, fine. Best of luck to them. It's really none of my business. But I just wanted to give my opinion that some of this stuff is going overboard. I hope everyone has a great season and be safe.




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## ehan69 (Feb 20, 2016)

Thanks. I definitely agree. 

My "Navy Seal" packing list is a legacy from before learning about Dan Infalt's tactics and techniques. I have simply not thought about altering the packing list now that I am aware wind has an effect on deer behavior.

My techniques then were to just get in hours before daylight and hunt the entire day. My tactics involved finding a trail leading away from the feeding area and setting up on it. 

I parked a mile away and walked in to conceal my hunting location from other hunters. It was previously a two part process with me carrying in all my packing list the night before in the pitch black, 30mph wind, sleet, and rain dumping it at a cache site 200-300 meters from my static ground hunting location. Then walking in the next morning wearing only light clothes and a rifle. 

What has changed, thanks to Dan, is that I take all my junk with me when I leave the truck because I attempt to be flexible and hunt the sign as it exists on the ground rather than a spot I scouted out two years before. 

In addition, thanks to Dan's beast hunting tactics, I now attempt to be flexible enough to switch trees during the hunt in case and when the wind shifts.

I still park a mile away to conceal my hunting location from other hunters because I hunt public. I could perhaps drop about a third of my gear by not taking in an entire second set of clothes (as per my ScentBlocker DVD) however as I get cold very easily, I would still pack in all the insulated stuff. 

I prefer to get my wife's permission to hunt the rut, i.e. when it's cold because by Dan Infalt "Beast Mode" skills are yet not developed enough to feel confident during the early season. 

Thus, as per Dan, I pay attention to the days prevailing wind, locate likely doe bedding areas via google earth or bing Birdseye view, and attempt to setup downwind of it with an obstacle downwind of me so that I cannot get busted, and watch for bucks scent checking the doe bedding area. 

As far as being angry goes, I did 36 months I've three tours in Iraq as an infantryman. I would love to discuss the firefight I was in for which I was awarded an Army Commendation Medal with a "V" device for Valor, however I probably will not.


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## ehan69 (Feb 20, 2016)

The epigraph is from Ernest Hemingway[citation needed]:

"There is no hunting like the hunting of man, and those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, never care for anything else thereafter."


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## ehan69 (Feb 20, 2016)

I learn so much about bow hunting here on AT. I am super grateful for all your contributions to my knowledge and actually packing list. 

This will be the first season ever during which I carry a vertical bow to the woods. 

Thank you AT!


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## Doorny22 (Jul 9, 2010)

Both guys have their own unique techniques and methods. Both guys hunt very different deer herds. Both guys are very successful hunters. That being said.. I don't thing Dan would get away with what he does here in Michigan. You have to pay attention to your scent control here. We are surrounded by water which creates winds that swirl often. Going out of your way to remain as smelly as possible then bragging about it just doesn't seem right to me. As a hunter I am always looking for ways to help improve my odds. Having said that; there are so many products these days that are just gimmicks and either don't help at all or they end up hurting. That is another area where I would tend to agree with John. Doing your homework on technologies before spending money on them. His sponsorship with Scent Lok is just them getting free suits. He doesn't get paid and he researched the daylights out of that technology before buying his own suit. I like a guy/girl that doesn't jump from company to company just because they pay more than the other. With all that said I feel there are things to be learned from both guys and their tactics. From Dan I learned how to use areal photos to pinpoint areas to scout. From John I learn how and when to scout.


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## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

ehan69 said:


> Thanks zap.
> 
> Heck, in Iraq in '07-'08 as a SAW gunner my basic load consisted of:
> 600 rds 5.56 linked,
> ...


Rise and Grind......:wink:

Gratitude for all those who served the USA.


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## GIL67 (Aug 10, 2009)

Do you think with John hunting mainly small parcels of land where there's very high hunter numbers that the deer are used to smelling human scent, and with his no / low scent regime if they pick something up think it's much further away than he is ? I've read their books and listen to the podcasts and they seem straight shooters if John eberhart was chasing dollars that much he would be pushing all sorts of crap I think he really believes in the whole carbon thing. Would love to have a beer with dan he's forgotten more than I'll ever know


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## Buckbadger (Jan 29, 2007)

Both are definitely good hunters with their track record, but don't really follow them. But often wondered about the conditions Infalt hunts in? if anyone knows? Seems I read it's all Public which is a great feat regardless, but wondered if these are big vast Public areas that many don't or can't access? When I think of Public, and know of Public here, a hunter can't get away from others completely, where all areas do to small in size get a lot of pressure here, and push the nicer ones to private, which makes it near impossible to hunt some bucks here. Does he deal with the same constant pressure, or have vast areas without much intrusion? I honestly don't know, but wondered? Thanks


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## matt76cmich (Oct 12, 2013)

20feetup214 said:


> I don't think you can really compare the two or say one person is a "better hunter", they are both amazingly successful hunters but have two totally different styles of hunting. I live in the area that John hunts a lot in southern MI, and for him to be killing the deer that he does in this area is pretty amazing. The amount of pressure that these grounds get is intense, from Oct. 1 archery/crossbow season to the orange army of the Nov. 15 gun season, which essentially goes until Jan 1 now. I don't totally agree with some of his beliefs on scent control either, but I have read his books and he gets total respect from me. I think the biggest factor in their success (John and his son Chris) is the year round scouting and preparation. John has said in a few podcasts that he doesn't really care about the wind, and he is obviously a firm believer in activated carbon technology, but I don't think it's all sponsor driven. He really knows all of the science behind it and he really believes in it. Listen to Podcast #18 of "Deer Hunter Podcast", I think that is the one where he goes in to his beliefs on the science of activated carbon. If you honestly believe that something works that's half the success right there. That being said, I think he is also a scent control nut, not just showers and washing, but to the extent of changing his diet during hunting season, etc. So that probably plays a big role in the success he may have with deer downwind regardless of whether or not the activated carbon works or not. You can't argue with his results on HIGHLY pressured public ground. Dan Infalt is also a slayer in the deer woods, but really a totally different style, and his podcasts, videos, and forum are pretty entertaining and informative, so they both get much respect from me.


My thoughts exactly. 

I live just down the road from John (20 miles) and find it hard to believe the success he has here in Michigan, but the man gets it done. 

I have learned a great deal from following Dan as well and respect both of them as hunters. I think the best thing you can do is take what you can from these guys and any other successful hunters in your area if they are willing to talk. As someone who is teaching themselves and slowly seeing things come together over the years i am thankful for guys like John and Dan to take the time to write books and come out with videos. 

Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk


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## Buckbadger (Jan 29, 2007)

matt76cmich said:


> I live just down the road from John (20 miles) and find it hard to believe the success he has here in Michigan, but the man gets it done.


Could you hunt the same areas he hunts, if you wanted? Not that you would, but this is something I don't understand between the two? But what I'm getting at, is both are not secretive about their success, and advertise it to a certain degree, where using someone like you for an example that would know his hunting spots since you live around him? I just try to grasp this, with what I know around here with hunting, and you don't even have to have a name, but be successful with a nice one, and you'll have every swinging ***, homing in on your spot. As I said I honestly don't know in my other post, but wondered if most of the hunting areas are off limits to most others?


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## matt76cmich (Oct 12, 2013)

Buckbadger said:


> Could you hunt the same areas he hunts, if you wanted? Not that you would, but this is something I don't understand between the two? But what I'm getting at, is both are not secretive about their success, and advertise it to a certain degree, where using someone like you for an example that would know his hunting spots since you live around him? I just try to grasp this, with what hunting I know around here with hunting, and you don't even have to have a name, but be successful with a nice one, and you'll have every swinging ***, homing in on your spot. As I said I honestly don't know in my other post, but wondered if most of the hunting areas are off limits to most others?


John's big claim is that he has never paid to hunt anywhere. A lot of his hunting spots are private land that he got permission to hunt that i might be able to hunt if i knew where they were and if i went and knocked on the door. He talks about hunting private land that others have permission to hunt. That land (private or public) could be many miles from his house and nowhere near the general area we live in. 

Now coming up here in October i will be hunting some of the same ground he has hunted in the past with success on the limited public hunt that i was drawn for. 2 years ago i hit a buck that i guess to be 140+ in the brisket and never found during this limited hunt, although a different 2 week period than i drew this year (and that buck happened to come by on complete dumb luck lol). 

So i don't know for sure where John hunts or how much public land he hunts these days (in Michigan or out of state), but
I'm sure if both of us were to scout the dame piece of land he would see things that i don't and would probably have the odds in his favor for being successful. 

Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk


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## mhill (Jul 11, 2011)

20feetup214 said:


> I don't think you can really compare the two or say one person is a "better hunter", they are both amazingly successful hunters but have two totally different styles of hunting. I live in the area that John hunts a lot in southern MI, and for him to be killing the deer that he does in this area is pretty amazing. The amount of pressure that these grounds get is intense, from Oct. 1 archery/crossbow season to the orange army of the Nov. 15 gun season, which essentially goes until Jan 1 now. I don't totally agree with some of his beliefs on scent control either, but I have read his books and he gets total respect from me. I think the biggest factor in their success (John and his son Chris) is the year round scouting and preparation. John has said in a few podcasts that he doesn't really care about the wind, and he is obviously a firm believer in activated carbon technology, but I don't think it's all sponsor driven. He really knows all of the science behind it and he really believes in it. Listen to Podcast #18 of "Deer Hunter Podcast", I think that is the one where he goes in to his beliefs on the science of activated carbon. If you honestly believe that something works that's half the success right there. That being said, I think he is also a scent control nut, not just showers and washing, but to the extent of changing his diet during hunting season, etc. So that probably plays a big role in the success he may have with deer downwind regardless of whether or not the activated carbon works or not. You can't argue with his results on HIGHLY pressured public ground. Dan Infalt is also a slayer in the deer woods, but really a totally different style, and his podcasts, videos, and forum are pretty entertaining and informative, so they both get much respect from me.


You realize that throughout John's DVDs he is scouting private land. Not public. That tells me that he hunts more private land he gained access on and not as much public. Private land has much much less pressure than public. Might not be exclusive rights but much less pressure than public land and deer are still patterable and killable. I have learn a lot from him but I doubt his success would be as great if all his hunting being on public land.


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## Ack (May 13, 2005)

mhill said:


> You realize that throughout John's DVDs he is scouting private land. Not public. That tells me that he hunts more private land he gained access on and not as much public. Private land has much much less pressure than public. Might not be exclusive rights but much less pressure than public land and deer are still patterable and killable. I have learn a lot from him but I doubt his success would be as great if all his hunting being on public land.


^ Nailed it



matt76cmich said:


> Now coming up here in October i will be hunting some of the same ground he has hunted in the past with success on the limited public hunt that i was drawn for. 2 years ago i hit a buck that i guess to be 140+ in the brisket and never found during this limited hunt, although a different 2 week period than i drew this year (and that buck happened to come by on complete dumb luck lol).


That's funny....Several years ago I specifically asked him if he had ever hunted over there, and he said that Chris had, but that he never did. :confused3:


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## matt76cmich (Oct 12, 2013)

Ack said:


> ^ Nailed it
> 
> 
> 
> That's funny....Several years ago I specifically asked him if he had ever hunted over there, and he said that Chris had, but that he never did. :confused3:


What area are you talking about? In one of his books he talks about hunting in the catails in the area I'll be hunting. Not saying you're wrong, just want to be on the same page. 

Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk


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## Ack (May 13, 2005)

matt76cmich said:


> what area are you talking about? In one of his books he talks about hunting in the catails in the area i'll be hunting. Not saying you're wrong, just want to be on the same page.
> 
> Sent from my sm-g935p using tapatalk


srsga


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## Doofy_13 (Jan 2, 2012)

mhill said:


> You realize that throughout John's DVDs he is scouting private land. Not public. That tells me that he hunts more private land he gained access on and not as much public. Private land has much much less pressure than public. Might not be exclusive rights but much less pressure than public land and deer are still patterable and killable. I have learn a lot from him but I doubt his success would be as great if all his hunting being on public land.


 Agree. I've read and own a couple of John's books. Seems like there are more pics and stories in his books of big bucks taken in "big buck" states than there are about bucks in Michigan let alone public land in Michigan.

Great hunter either way....but advertising goes a long way.


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## matt76cmich (Oct 12, 2013)

Ack said:


> srsga


Yup, that's it. 

Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk


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## eskimoohunt (Dec 21, 2008)

Why has TNT part 3 been loaded yet? They said they did 3 parts and it's been 2 weeks. What's the deal boys???


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## d_rek (Nov 26, 2013)

eskimoohunt said:


> Why has TNT part 3 been loaded yet? They said they did 3 parts and it's been 2 weeks. What's the deal boys???


They're out of Florida dealing with the hurricane I believe. I think we can cut them a little slack.


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## Darrens6601 (Jul 16, 2015)

d_rek said:


> They're out of Florida dealing with the hurricane I believe. I think we can cut them a little slack.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yup they got hit by the hurricane part 3 is delayed... 


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## Quicksliver (Nov 22, 2006)

Thanks for the response and your service.



ehan69 said:


> Where do you think the error is?


To start with:



> trying to implement this full on scent control strategy


I know the muddy setup and xbow aren't light, but I still have a hard time getting to 100#. How heavy is the bare pack? Have you scaled the setup or is that a guess?

My full day sit pack, bow, stand and sticks included probably doesn't tip 50#.

What's a bump helmet?

If you're packing food out, you took too much in.


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## ehan69 (Feb 20, 2016)

I need to go pack everything, get out the scale, weigh it, and get back to you with pics for an current weight. 

I walk in and out with night vision goggles. They attach to the bump helmet.

In order not to drift too far off topic, I would like to take a moment to thank Dan Infalt and his Beast tactics for finally giving me an accurate insight into where to kill deer. 

Because Dan cannot be profiting significantly from making his gold mine of information available to the public I feel he his teaching his techniques to be a public service. 

Therefore I am already considering how to best emulate Dan by make any ground breaking techniques I may have publicly available because at the end of the day it is all about putting steel on steel and big bucks on the ground. 

Getting back to your question, because the property on which I primarily hunt on is a military training area perhaps we could consider load weight based on current US military practice?

Therefore, even if my stuff does not weigh that much, basically 100lbs is less than I carry on an average day at work with the national guard. 

If you see this USMA article:

https://mwi.usma.edu/the-overweight-infantryman/ 

among other things, it states current army doctrine "prescribes a fighting load of no more than 48 pounds and an approach march load of 72 pounds." 

The article then goes on to quote a former marine who was, "required to carry almost 200 pounds of gear, armor, and weapons."

In sum, at my Army job I can be, and in fact am, required carry between 130lb - 200lbs of packing list at elevations of 10,000' + over mountains when in Afghanistan.

How do we fix that?


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## Quicksliver (Nov 22, 2006)

ehan69 said:


> I need to go pack everything, get out the scale, weigh it, and get back to you with pics for an current weight.


No, don't go to the effort please. Was just curious, as some western hunters (for instance) tend to overestimate pack weight. 100# is a lot for a man to carry on their back.


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## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

70 pound pack......12 miles in 3 hours...Who is ready for that? No quit in this woman!


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## ehan69 (Feb 20, 2016)

Zap, thanks. The good Captain's guts finish on that march necessarily then begs the question whether she and her band of sisters can immediately, immediately following her making it through that gate in your good vid, engage Johnny Reb, or Ivan, or Charlie in a bayonet charge AND defeat them?

See Army Leadership Manual p19 re:

"The 20th Maine arrived at Gettysburg near midday on 2 July, after marching more than one hundred miles in five days. (one hundred miles in five days)

They had had only two hours sleep and no hot food during the previous 24 hours. ... 

The 20th Maine had only been in position a few minutes when the Soldiers of the 15th and 47th Alabama attacked. The Confederates, having marched all night, were tired and thirsty, but they attacked ferociously. ... In spite of the terrible noise that confused voice commands, blinding smoke, the cries of the wounded, and the continuing Confederate attack?the Maine men succeeded. ... Despite desperate confederate attempts to break through, the Maine men rallied and held repeatedly. After five desperate encounters, the Maine men were down to one or two rounds per man, and determined Confederates were regrouping for another try. ... Then the entire regiment, bayonets fixed, would charge downhill ... The entire regiment was now charging on line, swinging like a great barn door ... The exhausted and shattered Alabama regiments now thought they were surrounded. They broke and ran ..." http://usacac.army.mil/cac2/Repository/Materials/fm6-22.pdf Thus saving the Union.

But wait, you say that was long ago 1863 even. Today we have iPhones and xbox no one does hand to hand combat anymore! 

I however beg to differ, see following example:

"It was Aug. 19, [2006] and Prosser?s commander, Lt. Col. Erik Kurilla, had been shot down in front of him. Bullets hit the ground and walls around him. Prosser charged under fire into a shop, not knowing how many enemy fighters were inside. There was one, and Prosser shot him four times in the chest, then threw down his empty rifle and fought hand-to-hand with the man. The insurgent pulled Prosser?s helmet over his eyes. Prosser got his hands onto the insurgent?s throat, but couldn?t get a firm grip because it was slick with blood. ?Unable to reach his sidearm or his knife, and without the support of any other American soldiers,? ?Sergeant Major Prosser disarmed and subdued the insurgent by delivering a series of powerful blows to the insurgent?s head, rendering the man unconscious." p17 https://uiowa.edu/armyrotc/sites/uiowa.edu.armyrotc/files/2014_CST_CadetHandbook.pdf

That's really good the Captain finished a 12 miler with 70lbs but can she beat a man to death with her bare hands afterwards?

The march is just to get there, the fight happens when you arrive ...


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## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

I get that stuff.....but she had no quit in her so I give her credit for that.

Maybe she is GI Jane?....:lol:


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## ehan69 (Feb 20, 2016)

Yeah, for sure. An ultimate display of sack. 

I only wonder whether her section of the perimeter will hold when she is in the next foxhole over and the North Koreans are about to launch another human wave attack? 

This is because she is a fresh replacement after the last three North Korean human wave attacks on our position ended in hand to hand combat because we did not have enough organic firepower to keep them from getting through the wire?

I wonder this because this same female Caption is at such great risk from sexual assault from US forces on the FOB that I am not allowed to leave my tent with fewer than three males? The theory being that it is more difficult to go raping someone when you have not one, but two (2) buddies with you.


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## ehan69 (Feb 20, 2016)

42.2 lbs for stand, sticks, harness, and pack (which I got because last year I had this strapped to my assault pack as it was far too uncomfortable the other way around) 

32.4 lbs for crossbow, arrows, and assault pack with contents. 

34.8 for all the clothes and boots 

= 109.2 lbs total or actually more than estimated 100lbs

I'm 48. When I went to Army Ranger School in January at age 39 (and did not pass) we had to hump the entire winter packing list, which completely fills the MOLLE ruck (pack), 400 rds of linked 7.62mm blanks, and an M-240B up wet mountains in Delohinga, GA. 

These mountains were so steep I seriously had to pull myself up by grabbing saplings ...

My point being in all this is that implementing a full Eberhardt-style scent control strategy a mile away from the truck is super difficult. 

If I had to categorize using scentlok/blocker in a military context I suppose it would fall into the "armor" category.

I am not getting rid of my activated carbon just yet however as I attempt to implement a full Dan Infalt "hunt them where they spend 90% of their daytime hours - their beds (or thermal tunnel)" strategy I may simply switch to prepping the activated carbon and all my gear with ozone instead of the whole washing routine.


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## ehan69 (Feb 20, 2016)

Pics:


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## ehan69 (Feb 20, 2016)

More pics


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## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

ehan69 said:


> Yeah, for sure. An ultimate display of sack.
> 
> I only wonder whether her section of the perimeter will hold when she is in the next foxhole over and the North Koreans are about to launch another human wave attack?
> 
> ...


maybe not the ultimate display.....:lol:....if you have some extra pvs-14's I could use a set....:lol:


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## eskimoohunt (Dec 21, 2008)

Just listened to the last podcast .... both make good points, I'm in the camp of the scent control helps maybe some but not much
IMO there are too many variables on what a deer can actually smell like your bow your arrows your climber if you touch it putting it in your car etc. freakin too many variables.

In addition I get way more deer hunting tips from Dan, John tips are on hunting from a saddle and scentlok 

I'd like to have others chime in case I'm missing something


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## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

If the only tips your are getting from Eberhardt are scentlok and saddle hunting your not paying attention.


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## eskimoohunt (Dec 21, 2008)

zap said:


> If the only tips your are getting from Eberhardt are scentlok and saddle hunting your not paying attention.


Can you elaborate? Primary scrape areas maybe. Exit and entry routes? Anything else?


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## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

eskimoohunt said:


> Can you elaborate? Primary scrape areas maybe. Exit and entry routes? Anything else?


You already found two.....keep up the good work....:lol:


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## eskimoohunt (Dec 21, 2008)

No offense to john but that's not ground breaking information, what Dan does is. Also he has multiple you tube videos and DVDs actually showing you Topo maps and going in those areas live in the field..showing you beds off points. Actual doe beds in cover and much more

IMO I've learned a ton from Dan not so much from John 

Anyone else?


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## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

Actually Eberhardts tactics are more applicable to the average bowhunter because they are mostly focusing on rut.....90%+ of bowhunters take vacations to hunt based on rut timing.

Infalt also has good info to share. But a smart person gets info from many places and then utilizes what will work best for them.

To do that you need an open mind. Saying Eberhardt only knows saddle and scentlok is nonsense. You can hate whoever you want to but you do not get to make up your own 'facts'.


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## ehan69 (Feb 20, 2016)

eskimoohunt, I cannot agree enough that Dan 

[via his DVD's (I especially like his original series "Farm Country Bucks: How to Hunt Deer," "Hill Country Bucks: Best Deer Hunting,") and "Hunting Marsh Bucks") along with the newer updated series (available on his website: http://www.thehuntingbeast.com/hbshop/)] 

has released the lodestone of whitetail hunting. 

Dan's techniques are so groundbreaking and effective I am always surprised when I tell my buddies about them and they completely ignore? The old adage, "you can "lead a horse to water ..." would seem to apply.

I am embarrassed to say that I thought his information was complete with the last of his "Blood Brothers" DVD's above. 

However on a recent drive home to Waco from Nashville I was able to listen to the first eight podcasts in Dan and Mario Trafficante's Q&A series via the "The Hunting Beast - Extreme Whitetail Tactics" YouTube channel (found here https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCAb0IaDRgP7gsTAslJ6D32w)and I believe he is just getting started. 

I listened to their section on "community scrapes" at least three times because I believe I found exactly that last year during the season while blood trailing a buck I shot. 

I liked Dan and Mario's explanation of a community scrape in the context of your needing to find them during the season because they are gone come January. I also liked the points they made that community scrapes begin producing as early as the beginning of October as well as year after year. 

I am therefore at present attempting to align Dan and Mario's new podcast information re community scrapes with Paul*Ranft's points in Dan's DVD "Farm Country Bucks: How to Hunt Deer" that "you need*to*leave* your* stand* when* wind* is* not* optimal* for* your* stand" because if what I found last season is a community scrape and I only have two days total this year to hunt I have to decide how to hunt it in any wind conditions. 

Because based on Dan and Mario's good information I believe that is my now my number one stand site. I believe I the scrape I found is a community scrape because it looked like three or four overlapping scrapes. Here is a pic:

Sidebar: I believe, like Eberhart, Paul*Ranft is from Michigan and has killed at least 49 P&Y bucks.

Zap, PVS-14's. lol


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## gjs4 (Jan 10, 2006)

Beside myself on this being a thread let alone on AT... feeling like this is the aftershock of UFC fights gone by. 


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## bowhuntercoop (Jul 22, 2008)

I have much respect for both of them, they are both amazing hunters. The last 3-4 years I've been using more of dans style to hunt public land and it has worked quite well for me. I still read jons books in the summer for a refresher. I think dans a better teacher though.


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## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

'We have a split decision'.....:lol:


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## SteepandDeep (Jun 30, 2010)

I have listened to both and have learned more from Dan over the last 8 years than anyone else. I hunt to have fun and I have gotten to the point that i am killing good bucks on public and have lots of good encounters each year using lessons I have learned from Dan. The whole scent control game doesn't sound like fun but rather stressful. I feel good when I go into the woods with a flannel, cotton camo bdu pants, my lone wolf on my back and set up based on the wind. I want that wind blowing where a deer may smell it but hopefully not and once in a while I get a crack at a good one.


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## eskimoohunt (Dec 21, 2008)

SteepandDeep said:


> I have listened to both and have learned more from Dan over the last 8 years than anyone else. I hunt to have fun and I have gotten to the point that i am killing good bucks on public and have lots of good encounters each year using lessons I have learned from Dan. The whole scent control game doesn't sound like fun but rather stressful. I feel good when I go into the woods with a flannel, cotton camo bdu pants, my lone wolf on my back and set up based on the wind. I want that wind blowing where a deer may smell it but hopefully not and once in a while I get a crack at a good one.


Good point here on scent control being stressful!! I sweat no matter how many cloths I bungie to my stand or how slow I go. If I'm all dressed in base layer scent lok all the way through a jacket and pant headset etc. I think all that sweat voids the shower I took at 4am

I know john believes in scent control but his speal over shadows some of his hunting tactics


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## flinginairos (Jan 3, 2006)

eskimoohunt said:


> No offense to john but that's not ground breaking information, what Dan does is. Also he has multiple you tube videos and DVDs actually showing you Topo maps and going in those areas live in the field..showing you beds off points. Actual doe beds in cover and much more
> 
> IMO I've learned a ton from Dan not so much from John
> 
> Anyone else?


Same here. I won't discredit John at all because I feel his info is good, but trying to locate primary scrape areas and an isolated food source just doesn't cut it where I hunt. You absolutely HAVE TO know where the bucks are bedded to have a chance. Since learning some tactics from Dan my encounters with good bucks has went way up and I have killed a good buck every year in early-mid October since 2013. Dan shows you exactly where to look and if you take the time to scout the areas he talks about you'll quickly find out he knows what he's doing!


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## ehan69 (Feb 20, 2016)

If you watch Dan?s new hunting journal here: 

https://youtu.be/Qr-C1JhDjrA 

Starting at about 34:00, do you think that buck would have busted Mario the same way if:

A. Mario employed a full Eberhart scent control routine?;
B. Mario employed a full Eberhart scent control routine AND used an Ozonics?, or;
C. Mario employed no scent control routine and only had an Ozonics?

Because my theory is that we CAN have our cake and eat it too by employing both Dan and Mario?s techniques simultaneously. 

Any thoughts?


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## B3AV3R (Apr 19, 2006)

I know John. To say that his philosophy is to "forget the wind and just hunt" could not be further from the truth. 
His scent control measures border on obsessive compulsive. The lengths he goes to to remain scent free, coupled with his carbon suit, meticulously planned entry and exit routes and propensity for hunting high allow him to hunt the way he does.


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## kyler1945 (Oct 16, 2012)

Freelance Bowhunter said:


> Very good post and well thought out, although I disagree with the part you said that I put in red. Deer can gauge a scent's age. How does a buck know which way to follow the trail of a hot doe? He can turn and trot 10 feet with his nose to the ground and then turn around 180 degrees and follow the track the right way. I have seen it. I have also seen deer follow scent put on a drag rag. If he was following which way the scent was stronger, he would follow it the wrong way every time, but he follows it the correct way because he knows which way is older. Make sense?


It does make sense, and you're right. I should have clarified here. In the same way the dog is rewarded for following the scent he was trained to, a deer is rewarded with a hot doe if he follows her scent. He does that in the same way a dog does at first. However, If he cut your trail, and then wanted to follow it to you, he'd be rewarded with a trip to the deer camp. Deer aren't going to follow your scent to you to determine which direction you came from (unless of course in the instance you described with drag rags). They're going to hit your trail like a brick wall, and depending on the deer's age, experience with hunters, and whether it's during daylight hours or not, will move away from the scent. My experience with the more mature deer has shown them usually going right back where they came from because they remember it to be safe. I know all deer are different, and some folks hunt property where deer are either more used to human scent(urban zones), or they don't get shot at when they encounter hunters (managed land with deer restrictions). But on public land, deer have to learn pretty quick to head the opposite direction in a hurry.


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## Freelance Bowhunter (Sep 7, 2010)

kyler1945 said:


> It does make sense, and you're right. I should have clarified here. In the same way the dog is rewarded for following the scent he was trained to, a deer is rewarded with a hot doe if he follows her scent. He does that in the same way a dog does at first. However, If he cut your trail, and then wanted to follow it to you, he'd be rewarded with a trip to the deer camp. Deer aren't going to follow your scent to you to determine which direction you came from (unless of course in the instance you described with drag rags). They're going to hit your trail like a brick wall, and depending on the deer's age, experience with hunters, and whether it's during daylight hours or not, will move away from the scent. My experience with the more mature deer has shown them usually going right back where they came from because they remember it to be safe. I know all deer are different, and some folks hunt property where deer are either more used to human scent(urban zones), or they don't get shot at when they encounter hunters (managed land with deer restrictions). But on public land, deer have to learn pretty quick to head the opposite direction in a hurry.


It's not a point of clarification. I disagree with what you said. There is a big difference between a buck being able to determine the strength of a smell versus the age of a smell. Two totally different concepts.


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## eskimoohunt (Dec 21, 2008)

I listened to this a couple times. John has some great post scouting tips and some solid hunting strategies 

Dan is the master of all deer beds, stand approach and he thinks like a deer too

I gotta say most people can do wjat John does after learning from him

With Dan I give anyone a lot more credit than me if you hike through a mile of cattails to get to secluded locations 

More power to you!!! I’d get lost in a heartbeat. That crap is tall and thick let alone on the damn dark


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## Early Ice (Mar 18, 2008)

what most don't realize is scent control is a crock of BS. The reason I know is because I went from one spectrum to the other. Most haven't. If you get bagged with nothing, no shower, no carbon, no gimmick...you'll get bagged with whatever else you are using. I can vouch for both sides. Now, all i do is play the wind and plan routes to and from. I actually get bagged less with being more smart and using NOTHING. there are days I don't even shower and have deer all over me. 

The reality is, if a thermal is rising, you could take a dump on your platform and NOT get winded. The reality is, when a deer walks downwind with a ozonics and you don't get busted it's not because they are confused, the thermals are correct and you'd get away with it ozonics or not. 

I'm a WI guy, a state where the deer jump out of their skin at first smell of a human. I'll side on Dan Infaults side simply because I know the marshes he hunts and the pressure in those areas and he still kills deer. I think Dan himself would completely agree with what i've said. Thermals, swirling winds, wind direction, land contours...if more would think about that stuff over a product to "cover" their mistakes I believe more would have that "ah ha" moment.....

30 years ago I soaked my clothing in fox piss, deer still bagged you. Sprayed skunk scent on the ground, deer still go you if everything was wrong wind wise. False sense of security has the hunting world in a strangle hold.


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## jlh42581 (Oct 21, 2009)

Early Ice said:


> 30 years ago I soaked my clothing in fox piss, deer still bagged you. Sprayed skunk scent on the ground, deer still go you if everything was wrong wind wise. False sense of security has the hunting world in a strangle hold.


I completely agree, ive been front to back, carbon, smoke, ozone, showers and dressing outside... SCREW THAT

With that said I do still use scent free products but not because i give a **** if i had a shower or not. I do it because i find the bugs are after me much less when i do. They seem to really like stuff that smells good.

John is a little too obnoxious for my taste, like someone mentioned, he speaks in absolutes and some of the ways he responded to things dan has said rubbed me wrong. Its not secret Im a Dan/Andrae follower .

If you wanna speak with John directly you can, his contact information is all over saddle hunter, he hands out his phone number without batting an eyelash. Anyone who thinks Dan cant do what he does anywhere is insane. Id bet my entire monthly salary given enough time on a buck you or I cant kill in a given season he would kill it. Hell they both probably would.

I personally believe in the beast way because I have seen the results. I found Infalt by finding Andrae, I found Andrae by looking for quiet gear because I was already doing the proverbial no no of hunting beds on public. Nope, I dont have a wall of big bucks, my archery seasons typically last about 6-10 days a year since my early 20s, kids can do that to you. Ive killed a ****load of deer, and the only one I have anything to prove too is myself.


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## eskimoohunt (Dec 21, 2008)

I find both of them to be very knowledgeable

I went to stand and sticks mainly because of Dan and wanting a sleek setup

I’ve mastered that now I’m going with the saddle. Mainly because I know in the long run I’ll need even a lighter load as I get older


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## TheTracker (Sep 11, 2009)

I've learned more from Dan in 1 week than all of the other hunters combined over my entire life.

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## TheTracker (Sep 11, 2009)

nick060200 said:


> well when your up in a tree 25' the wind doesn't matter as much as when your on the ground, and since he hunts mostly from a saddle way up in a tree, his statement about not caring about the wind that much is probably mostly true. not sure why everyone thinks its a conspiracy.


Unless your flying into your set like superman and never touching the ground the wind matters greatly.

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## Hammer79 (Feb 13, 2008)

After reading this thread I went and downloaded the podcasts and gave them a listen. I have followed both these guys for awhile. I thought both guys had great stuff to learn from. I would say I followed Dan more closely and always had trouble with John's ego. After listening to these I would say that I could barely stomach listening to John. Wow! Really lost a lot of respect for him the way he talks so matter of factly. Anyone that thinks they leave no odor is delusional. Maybe if you got dropped 100' down a rope from a helicopter... Dan in my book is still a class act. I know John knows everything but he could learn a lot from listening to Dan and I'm not even talking about deer hunting. 

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## AntlerInsane83 (Jun 28, 2016)

I’ve learned more from Dan than everyone else combined. Although “The hunting public” does a pretty good job of explaining and teaching also.


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## jdaf (Sep 9, 2013)

Just wanna throw it out there but it's not about scentlok it's about the active carbon they use, which has been scientifically proven beyond a doubt to absorb scent. That's why Amazon sells odor eliminating cloth bags filled with it. Look at the reviews. It works hands down. It's also used as a filter in many other areas. We used it in our chem suites in iraq. I use John's program and will tell you I don't get winded, on the other hand its a whole lot of detail to pay attention to. Everything has to be done to a T. What sucks is getting near naked outside the truck when it's 25 degrees out and dressing from airtight containers lol. Now as far as pressure goes... Where Infalt hunts doesnt even compare to the area I'm in.. PA.. and where John hunts in MI .. when it comes to hunting pressure if anyone wants to debate that I'll post the stats. Not taking anything away from Dan by any means, but if he tried his tactics in a true pressured area I dont think he would.have anywhere near the same success. He talks about finding 3 year old deer like they are everywhere. Where I hunt we may have one 3-4 year old buck every 2 sq miles. And 5-6 year olds...  yeah righy.. Just listening to him I knew almost immediately he wasn't in a true pressured area... He also uses a firearm for many of his hunts which is fine. John is all archery and getting it done with an old old old Mathews lol. Now I also know for a fact Andrea has an 800 acre farm in Iowa that gets 0 pressure. Again taking noting away from anyone all awesome hunters and have adapted to their respective areas, but if your in a true pressured area or state John's tactics will make you more successful for sure. I know because I've used them last 6-8 years and there's no need to spend a ton of money. Now you may have to do some traveling and work at getting permission to hunt places but it's worth it. 

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


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## rkillar (Jun 14, 2008)

jdaf said:


> Just wanna throw it out there but it's not about scentlok it's about the active carbon they use, which has been scientifically proven beyond a doubt to absorb scent. That's why Amazon sells odor eliminating cloth bags filled with it. Look at the reviews. It works hands down. It's also used as a filter in many other areas. We used it in our chem suites in iraq. I use John's program and will tell you I don't get winded, on the other hand its a whole lot of detail to pay attention to. Everything has to be done to a T. What sucks is getting near naked outside the truck when it's 25 degrees out and dressing from airtight containers lol. Now as far as pressure goes... Where Infalt hunts doesnt even compare to the area I'm in.. PA.. and where John hunts in MI .. when it comes to hunting pressure if anyone wants to debate that I'll post the stats. Not taking anything away from Dan by any means, but if he tried his tactics in a true pressured area I dont think he would.have anywhere near the same success. He talks about finding 3 year old deer like they are everywhere. Where I hunt we may have one 3-4 year old buck every 2 sq miles. And 5-6 year olds...  yeah righy.. Just listening to him I knew almost immediately he wasn't in a true pressured area... He also uses a firearm for many of his hunts which is fine. John is all archery and getting it done with an old old old Mathews lol. Now I also know for a fact Andrea has an 800 acre farm in Iowa that gets 0 pressure. Again taking noting away from anyone all awesome hunters and have adapted to their respective areas, but if your in a true pressured area or state John's tactics will make you more successful for sure. I know because I've used them last 6-8 years and there's no need to spend a ton of money. Now you may have to do some traveling and work at getting permission to hunt places but it's worth it.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


I've experienced the same thing. Johns method has allowed me to hunt the same small acreage all season with out burning it out which is huge for me. When you find a good stand on public land you want to be able to use it multiple times. It is a lot of work though.


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## 3D Pinwheeler (Jan 29, 2007)

I've gained a ton from both. Both hunt differently and are effective. Dan gives most of his stuff for free, John doesn't. 
I combine both methods and it works for me. Scentloc has been proven not to work by dogs and other tests. It may reduce but it doesnt eliminate it. 
I've tried both styles and have seen no differences so I use the wind and hunt. I see just as many as before using all scent free methods. 
Even did the saddle deal for a season....I move too much and got spotted too easily by deer. 
I'm glad both hunters share their methods so freely....learned lots from both


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## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

Get to know the intricacies of how very successful hunters operate and then apply these things to your hunting style. Trying to copy may not work very well because of many variables.


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## jdaf (Sep 9, 2013)

3D Pinwheeler said:


> I've gained a ton from both. Both hunt differently and are effective. Dan gives most of his stuff for free, John doesn't.
> I combine both methods and it works for me. Scentloc has been proven not to work by dogs and other tests. It may reduce but it doesnt eliminate it.
> I've tried both styles and have seen no differences so I use the wind and hunt. I see just as many as before using all scent free methods.
> Even did the saddle deal for a season....I move too much and got spotted too easily by deer.
> I'm glad both hunters share their methods so freely....learned lots from both


The scentlok test was flawed. Anyone that has tracking dogs will see right through the test. Don't take my word for it... Go buy active carbon powder on amazon. It'll run ya 14$. Sprinkle some in a garbage bag and throw in a nasty smelling sock or cloth .... Tie it off, shake it up.. let it set overnight and open it in the AM... You'll.be blown away. I did this on accident with a pair of scentlok gloves. Handled very fresh and nasty tarsals. Got it all over my gloves. Threw them in a sandwich bag figuring I'd keep them from stinking the truck up. I forgot they were there and opened it in the AM... No smell... Made me a believer. 

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## eskimoohunt (Dec 21, 2008)

I’ve done the head to toe scentlok thing this year

I have a 2 year old 4 point wind me 40 yards as soon as it hit my wind path 

I was 18 feet up

John hunts at 30 feet so that has to factor into play


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## 77chevy (May 26, 2017)

Dan is the man!


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## KPnorthdakota (Nov 16, 2016)

jdaf said:


> Just wanna throw it out there but it's not about scentlok it's about the active carbon they use, which has been scientifically proven beyond a doubt to absorb scent. That's why Amazon sells odor eliminating cloth bags filled with it. Look at the reviews. It works hands down. It's also used as a filter in many other areas. We used it in our chem suites in iraq. I use John's program and will tell you I don't get winded, on the other hand its a whole lot of detail to pay attention to. Everything has to be done to a T. What sucks is getting near naked outside the truck when it's 25 degrees out and dressing from airtight containers lol. Now as far as pressure goes... Where Infalt hunts doesnt even compare to the area I'm in.. PA.. and where John hunts in MI .. when it comes to hunting pressure if anyone wants to debate that I'll post the stats. Not taking anything away from Dan by any means, but if he tried his tactics in a true pressured area I dont think he would.have anywhere near the same success. He talks about finding 3 year old deer like they are everywhere. Where I hunt we may have one 3-4 year old buck every 2 sq miles. And 5-6 year olds...  yeah righy.. Just listening to him I knew almost immediately he wasn't in a true pressured area... He also uses a firearm for many of his hunts which is fine. John is all archery and getting it done with an old old old Mathews lol. Now I also know for a fact Andrea has an 800 acre farm in Iowa that gets 0 pressure. Again taking noting away from anyone all awesome hunters and have adapted to their respective areas, but if your in a true pressured area or state John's tactics will make you more successful for sure. I know because I've used them last 6-8 years and there's no need to spend a ton of money. Now you may have to do some traveling and work at getting permission to hunt places but it's worth it.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


I’m sure you like your style and Eberhardts. Not taking anything away from you or him. But, to say that much of Dan’s Hunting is gun goes absolutely contrary to everything I’ve watched of him...and I’ve watched everything that I know is out there.

Also, Wisconsin is a very heavy pressured state. Take a look here https://www.realtree.com/brow-tines-and-backstrap/15-most-pressured-deer-hunting-states-in-america

The above 2017 article states that Wisconsin is more pressured than Michigan or Pennsylvania. (if I read it correctly)

I’ve watched Eberhardt and it didn’t click with what I witness in the woods. Not saying I didn’t learn anything from him. But, what I’ve learned from Dan has lined up with everything I see in the woods. And, Dan has taken time to personally give me advice and he doesn’t know me at all. I think that says a lot about the kind of guy he is.

Beast Style Advantages for me:
–I’ll take using the wind and not having to get dressed naked in -10° weather. 
–I’ll take wearing whatever Camo I want to keep me warm rather than spending extravagant amounts of money for Scentlok. 
–I’ll take Beast tactics over any other method that I’ve watched or read. 
–It makes everything I experience hunting deer make sense and helps me put together successful strategies.

Again, I think every hunter should use what works best for them. That’s what makes it fun. I like the Beast style.


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## rkillar (Jun 14, 2008)

eskimoohunt said:


> I’ve done the head to toe scentlok thing this year
> 
> I have a 2 year old 4 point wind me 40 yards as soon as it hit my wind path
> 
> ...


It's like cooking a good steak, Even though the directions don't seem that difficult not everyone's gonna do it right


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## eskimoohunt (Dec 21, 2008)

rkillar said:


> It's like cooking a good steak, Even though the directions don't seem that difficult not everyone's gonna do it right


In hunting for 40 years I personally do not think a thin layer of carbon will ever beat a whitetails nose, can it help? Who knows but if you hunt 30 feet up it sure will


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## rkillar (Jun 14, 2008)

Your probably right, a thin layer may not beat there nose but used in conjunction with all other scent control measures it has for me significantly reduced my human scent footprint and allowed me to hunt an area longer without burning it out. As far as getting 30 feet up I'm not doing that either.


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## boonerbrad (Nov 30, 2006)

So do mature bucks care if you smell a little or a lot when they wind you? NOPE. He gone.


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## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

^Yup.^


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## mn5503 (Feb 21, 2006)

^^Double Yup^^


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## crankn101 (Jan 26, 2007)

I believe a cover scent can buy you valuable seconds...


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## rkillar (Jun 14, 2008)

Boonerbrad said:


> So do mature bucks care if you smell a little or a lot when they wind you? NOPE. He gone.


You and your yup guys are failing to see the big picture. While its obvious to most that any amount of scent will spook a buck, what doesn't seem to be obvious to you is that less scent does less damage-specifically at 2:00 am when your home in bed and a deer walk by the tree stand you stunk up all afternoon.


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## Browning_270 (Mar 30, 2009)

rkillar said:


> You and your yup guys are failing to see the big picture. While its obvious to most that any amount of scent will spook a buck, what doesn't seem to be obvious to you is that less scent does less damage-specifically at 2:00 am when your home in bed and a deer walk by the tree stand you stunk up all afternoon.


In my opinion this is exactly contradicting what you are trying to say..there is still scent left after you leave the stand, which you agree with..but that scent is from boots, backpack rubbing on limbs, the bow hanger you left in the tree etc etc.... no amount of carbon clothes will help this. I think its important to control variables that we can control. But to honestly think you are gonna go in the woods and come back out leaving minimal scent with a strict regimen, vs lots of scent with a normal scent control routine is crazy. Im a firm believer in, if they didnt smell you they werent getting your wind


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## rkillar (Jun 14, 2008)

That doesn't make any sense at all. You don't think there's scenarios that leave less or more human scent behind? What if you took a big double do at the base of your tree stand. Wouldn't that leave more scent behind than if you didn't.


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## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

rkillar said:


> You and your yup guys are failing to see the big picture. While its obvious to most that any amount of scent will spook a buck, what doesn't seem to be obvious to you is that less scent does less damage-specifically at 2:00 am when your home in bed and a deer walk by the tree stand you stunk up all afternoon.


The deer still smell you were there and I believe that they know you were there very recently no matter how much scent is there. That's how they stay safe. How their nose to brain is wired.


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## rkillar (Jun 14, 2008)

Yes they could probably smell you if they were there "very recently" but those deer would likely have an arrow in them and would have other problems to worry about. I'm mostly concerned with deer that came by later than "very recently" say 2:00 am. These ones might not smell your presence and therefor walk by again tomorrow to get an arrow in them as well.


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## 3D Pinwheeler (Jan 29, 2007)

jdaf said:


> The scentlok test was flawed. Anyone that has tracking dogs will see right through the test. Don't take my word for it... Go buy active carbon powder on amazon. It'll run ya 14$. Sprinkle some in a garbage bag and throw in a nasty smelling sock or cloth .... Tie it off, shake it up.. let it set overnight and open it in the AM... You'll.be blown away. I did this on accident with a pair of scentlok gloves. Handled very fresh and nasty tarsals. Got it all over my gloves. Threw them in a sandwich bag figuring I'd keep them from stinking the truck up. I forgot they were there and opened it in the AM... No smell... Made me a believer.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


You do know deer have a lot better smell and can seperate smells from each other right? Just cause you can't smell it doesn't mean deer don't. Like I've said tried everything now do nothing and see just as many as before. Dan's method you don't hunt the same setup you keep moving hunt only fresh sign right then. 
Watch all the Scent loc guys on tv none of them wear their suits like Eberhart and they are paid by Scent Loc so they can have a new suit a day but fail to use head covers still spray down with scent killer and still you see deer bugger on them.
If your on the right side of the wind and avoided walking between your stand and where the deer comes from it doesn't matter. I've had lots of deer downwind with no scent control and they didn't bust also.

What I've gained from both of these guys is hard work and scouting kills deer.


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## jdaf (Sep 9, 2013)

KPnorthdakota said:


> I’m sure you like your style and Eberhardts. Not taking anything away from you or him. But, to say that much of Dan’s Hunting is gun goes absolutely contrary to everything I’ve watched of him...and I’ve watched everything that I know is out there.
> 
> Also, Wisconsin is a very heavy pressured state. Take a look here https://www.realtree.com/brow-tines-and-backstrap/15-most-pressured-deer-hunting-states-in-america
> 
> ...


Nothing wrong with that. See I found the complete opposite. In his farm video he States bigger buck bed on the edges of fields and doe further back. It's actually the complete opposite here. No way will you catch a big buck bedded near an open field in a pressured area. Here the doe bed very close to their food source while the bigger buck bed further back into the cover and use the doe along with all their senses to detect danger. Thats why when Dan says he gets close to bedded buck I just shake my head. I have no doubt you can do that on low pressure land but not in areas of high pressure. Once you blow those doe that buck is gone. Now pressure.... Each Wisconsin PA and MI sell a ton of bow hunting licenses. Right around 300k. But here's the number that tells me everything... WI enters over 500 buck in the books a year... Ready for MI and PA ??? Yeah it's around 90 a year. That tells me they let them live a lot longer in WI. There's no negative hunter contact till those deer are 3 or 4 years old there which makes them easier to kill at that age. I understand your using the wind. To each his own. Getting dressed in the cold is worth it to me to avoid getting winded. I have so far watched the farm DVD and listened to all Dan's podcasts. I am going going to watch the rest of his videos and compare with what I see as well. I have read all.of Eberhart for around 9 years now so far I can't put a hole in what he says. I've tried. I'm pretty skeptical especially when it came to the scentlok. The glove thing I mentioned made me a believer lol. 

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## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

A person smells a stew cooking and then looks in the pot to see what the ingredients are.

A deer can smell each ingredient and each seasoning separately from a good distance. If the deer could talk it would be able to list them all for you starting at the most used one and ending with the pinch of pepper...


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## jdaf (Sep 9, 2013)

3D Pinwheeler said:


> You do know deer have a lot better smell and can seperate smells from each other right? Just cause you can't smell it doesn't mean deer don't. Like I've said tried everything now do nothing and see just as many as before. Dan's method you don't hunt the same setup you keep moving hunt only fresh sign right then.
> Watch all the Scent loc guys on tv none of them wear their suits like Eberhart and they are paid by Scent Loc so they can have a new suit a day but fail to use head covers still spray down with scent killer and still you see deer bugger on them.
> If your on the right side of the wind and avoided walking between your stand and where the deer comes from it doesn't matter. I've had lots of deer downwind with no scent control and they didn't bust also.
> 
> What I've gained from both of these guys is hard work and scouting kills deer.


Yes I do know they can separate smells... Or so they say. We will never know will we are able to ask one. Lol. Eberhart himself will tell you they guys on TV don't use it right. It's TV... They are also hunting 0 pressured deer lol. I have seen a clear difference using scentlok when it comes to getting winded.. Dan himself said active charcoal does absorb scent, he just doesn't think you can reactivate it in the dryer or that it absorbs enough. 

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## huntin_addict (Jan 25, 2006)

I was about 10 seconds in and went "nope". I think his theories are incredibly flawed, AND I think it's WAY too much BS.

https://youtu.be/J_pwNPsz9-Q

In all honesty I prefer Dan Infalt.


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## d_rek (Nov 26, 2013)

I switched to 100% playing the wind this year from versus doing crazy scent routine last few seasons. I am having my most enjoyable season by far and my deer sightings and success has been more or less the same. 

I don’t think I’ll be doing the scent control stuff anymore. Almost seems crazy when I think about it in hindsight. 


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## jdaf (Sep 9, 2013)

Just to add I am in no way an Infalt hater.. I highly admire anyone with any success that passes along info to help others... both of these guys are class acts... John has his cell number right on his website and if you call it he will answer and chat with you answering any questions you have. The first time we spoke he let me pick his brain for a couple hours.. thats saying something. While he gets free stuff from scentlok he isnt paid by them. He will openly say they do not push proper care for their product and he absolutely hates their rain gear. When you really listen to both guys they are saying the same things... lol. Other than scent control. Hmmm lets see... Dan says he has killed his biggest bucks over scrapes near bedding areas.. John says his best spots are scrape areas back in cover.. Same thing... Both say get away from other hunters and areas other hunters occupy, each one says the best chance at killing a buck is your first sit.. have to catch them by surprise. Each just has a different way of going about it. One thing I have taken from Infalt so far is to not be afraid to do an observation sit.. its not a wasted hunt if you can get the info you need. I have found you can look at all the sign you want, the best you can do is make an educated guess... now when you witness a buck something its 100%. The only thing they completely disagree on is scent control. Thats it. John does preset many of his trees but also carries a free lance pack in case a situation calls for it. For me.. some of the things Infalt says tells me he is not in a true pressured area... While he may be in an area that has presence.. pressure and presence are almost always very very different. No one can say either ones theories are flawed btw.. you know why? They each have a wall full of mature animals they killed. To say Eberhart is flawed is laughable. They guy has nearly 30 bucks on the books in MI.. He has proved himself beyond the shadow of a doubt.. so has Infalt. My only thing with Infalt is he completely discredits scent control and thats ok but even he admits carbon powder absorbs scent. Thats all ok though. Hunting the wind is clearly effective, but very unpredictable... sit around a campfire.. youll see what I mean.. smoke is always in your face no matter how many times you change spots.... lol. Ill take every advantage I can get. Another thing thats hard for me anyway is staying mobile without some level of cutting shooting lanes. Some spots I have hunted there would be no shot but directly to the ground if I didnt cut a branch or two... lol. One thing I believe very strongly is each animal has its own personality and reacts different to scent in the same circumstances depending on their personal experience with it or their individual nature. Eberhart has 100% made me a better hunter and what I have listened to from Dan already has as well. I am going to continue to listen to Dans stuff and I am sure I will pick up great info from him that will help me in the future as well.


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## jdaf (Sep 9, 2013)

d_rek said:


> I switched to 100% playing the wind this year from versus doing crazy scent routine last few seasons. I am having my most enjoyable season by far and my deer sightings and success has been more or less the same.
> 
> I don’t think I’ll be doing the scent control stuff anymore. Almost seems crazy when I think about it in hindsight.
> 
> ...


I have heard guys say this.. if it makes your hunt more enjoyable than thats awesome.. I mean its why the majority of us do this right?


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## muzzypower (Sep 14, 2005)

we should locate a monster buck and let them dual it out and see who gets him first. that will determine who the best hunter with the best techniques is without any doubt.


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## 457121 (Oct 27, 2017)

jdaf said:


> Now pressure.... Each Wisconsin PA and MI sell a ton of bow hunting licenses. Right around 300k. But here's the number that tells me everything... WI enters over 500 buck in the books a year... Ready for MI and PA ??? Yeah it's around 90 a year. That tells me they let them live a lot longer in WI. There's no negative hunter contact till those deer are 3 or 4 years old there which makes them easier to kill at that age.


So all three states sell 300K bow tags but bucks in WI somehow have no negative human contact for 3-4 years?


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## hunt1up (Sep 4, 2009)

I've never heard of either of these two people.


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## westmichigander (Dec 14, 2016)

jdaf said:


> Nothing wrong with that. See I found the complete opposite. In his farm video he States bigger buck bed on the edges of fields and doe further back. It's actually the complete opposite here. No way will you catch a big buck bedded near an open field in a pressured area. Here the doe bed very close to their food source while the bigger buck bed further back into the cover and use the doe along with all their senses to detect danger. Thats why when Dan says he gets close to bedded buck I just shake my head. I have no doubt you can do that on low pressure land but not in areas of high pressure. Once you blow those doe that buck is gone. Now pressure.... Each Wisconsin PA and MI sell a ton of bow hunting licenses. Right around 300k. But here's the number that tells me everything... WI enters over 500 buck in the books a year... Ready for MI and PA ??? Yeah it's around 90 a year. That tells me they let them live a lot longer in WI. There's no negative hunter contact till those deer are 3 or 4 years old there which makes them easier to kill at that age. I understand your using the wind. To each his own. Getting dressed in the cold is worth it to me to avoid getting winded. I have so far watched the farm DVD and listened to all Dan's podcasts. I am going going to watch the rest of his videos and compare with what I see as well. I have read all.of Eberhart for around 9 years now so far I can't put a hole in what he says. I've tried. I'm pretty skeptical especially when it came to the scentlok. The glove thing I mentioned made me a believer lol.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


Painting a pretty basic picture with that statement. Dan says all conditions have to be right. They don't just bed on any field edge, has to have correct cover behind/infront, wind, etc... 
He says when you truly find these locations, it will make sense why they bed there. Just because it's a field edge, doesn't guarantee a buck will bed there, lot of other factors involved he talks about. He also states plenty times about doe bedding close to the edge in groups and blowing em out on the way in, etc.. 
Just food for the thought.
Hunt like a Beast!


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## jdaf (Sep 9, 2013)

westmichigander said:


> Painting a pretty basic picture with that statement. Dan says all conditions have to be right. They don't just bed on any field edge, has to have correct cover behind/infront, wind, etc...
> He says when you truly find these locations, it will make sense why they bed there. Just because it's a field edge, doesn't guarantee a buck will bed there, lot of other factors involved he talks about. He also states plenty times about doe bedding close to the edge in groups and blowing em out on the way in, etc..
> Just food for the thought.
> Hunt like a Beast!


Oh I understand that. I am just saying in a pressured area a mature white tail will absolutely not bed on a field edge... After 25+ years of hunting here I can say that. Mainly cause that were all the hunters are. I am in no way speaking bad about him, what I question is the area he hunts being high pressure thats it. The only thing I have found to be 100% is in the pressured areas I hunt a mature buck wouldnt be caught dead any where near an open area... if he was he would be just that... dead lol. If you read my previous post I actually think these guys say their best areas are the same as each others... lol. One thing Dan has way over John that people love is his image.. the whole beast thing.. he brings a level of cool that John does not.. lol. I actually like it! Just to give you an idea.. back when I was 12 right up till 5 or 6 years ago.. if someone killed a 16-18 inch 8 or 9 point that scored even close to 100 it was a giant and we talked about it all year long. Also the PA books have a minimum of 115 inches P&Y to get in their books.. That tells you a 115 deer here is a trophy based on this area.


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## jdaf (Sep 9, 2013)

457121 said:


> So all three states sell 300K bow tags but bucks in WI somehow have no negative human contact for 3-4 years?


Yes.. heres why.. they are entering 5 times the amount of book bucks than PA.. thats what guys dont get that dont hunt extremely high pressure. I truly believe if theres no negative human contact deer are easier to hunt until there is. Case in point... my neighbor fed a mature doe right outside their house.. after a couple years they got to where they could actually pet it. That same doe walked right up to the neighbors stand in the woods. Although they let it live.. would have been an easy kill... When an animal is allowed to live till 3 or 4 without being scared out of its mind by humans they are easier to kill.. again hunting pressure vs hunting presence. Two very different things. I am speaking generally also. Whats more is there is clearly way way more mature deer in WI than PA or MI... by their book entries. That right there ups the odds. Thats why when Dan says he sees these 5 and 6 year old deer I have to ask myself.. where in the world is this guy hunting??? lol. They just dont exist here... there may be one for every 5 square miles.. if that. Pa came out with a 3 point per side rule few years back.. only in the last couple years have we seen the change.. now a 16" 8 or 9 point is fairly common during the rifle season, much easier to kill also due to the fact they are left alone until they are that age. I have seen all of this with my own eyes as I grew up over the last 30+ years of watching the deer in my area.


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## westmichigander (Dec 14, 2016)

jdaf said:


> Oh I understand that. I am just saying in a pressured area a mature white tail will absolutely not bed on a field edge... After 25+ years of hunting here I can say that. Mainly cause that were all the hunters are. I am in no way speaking bad about him, what I question is the area he hunts being high pressure thats it. The only thing I have found to be 100% is in the pressured areas I hunt a mature buck wouldnt be caught dead any where near an open area... if he was he would be just that... dead lol. If you read my previous post I actually think these guys say their best areas are the same as each others... lol. One thing Dan has way over John that people love is his image.. the whole beast thing.. he brings a level of cool that John does not.. lol. I actually like it! Just to give you an idea.. back when I was 12 right up till 5 or 6 years ago.. if someone killed a 16-18 inch 8 or 9 point that scored even close to 100 it was a giant and we talked about it all year long. Also the PA books have a minimum of 115 inches P&Y to get in their books.. That tells you a 115 deer here is a trophy based on this area.


I get ya, no worries.

I do think if that field edge had all right pieces of the puzzle and it was an overlooked spot (entrance, parking lot, road, etc..) you just might find a mature buck hiding out there. I think Dan shows a few video clips of just that in the farm bedding dvd.
Not sure it's just his "image" as much as it's face he's real, not selling you a gimmick, and most can relate to real life average joe hunter. 
Good Luck!


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## TheTracker (Sep 11, 2009)

huntin_addict said:


> I was about 10 seconds in and went "nope". I think his theories are incredibly flawed, AND I think it's WAY too much BS.
> 
> https://youtu.be/J_pwNPsz9-Q
> 
> In all honesty I prefer Dan Infalt.


Absolutely, I've learned more from dan infalt then I ever could from eberhart.

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## TheTracker (Sep 11, 2009)

muzzypower said:


> we should locate a monster buck and let them dual it out and see who gets him first. that will determine who the best hunter with the best techniques is without any doubt.


Infalt would win that matchup.

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## zeee (May 19, 2018)

So John wears scent lok and he doesn't pay attention to the wind .I believe that because I hunted a stand where the wind direction was wrong for that stand. I gad scent lok.I killed my biggest buck ever. he was really close to being downwind of me I'm talking 30 yards away and maybe ten steps from being directly down when I smoked him. For you guys that don't use scent control and you hunt by the wind. you would not have sat that stand and you would not have got that buck either.
With the combination of ozone and carbon I beat most deer most of the time. 

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## jdaf (Sep 9, 2013)

muzzypower said:


> we should locate a monster buck and let them dual it out and see who gets him first. that will determine who the best hunter with the best techniques is without any doubt.


Now that would be awesome! Lol 

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## jdaf (Sep 9, 2013)

zeee said:


> So John wears scent lok and he doesn't pay attention to the wind .I believe that because I hunted a stand where the wind direction was wrong for that stand. I gad scent lok.I killed my biggest buck ever. he was really close to being downwind of me I'm talking 30 yards away and maybe ten steps from being directly down when I smoked him. For you guys that don't use scent control and you hunt by the wind. you would not have sat that stand and you would not have got that buck either.
> With the combination of ozone and carbon I beat most deer most of the time.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


Agreed.. I'm not knocking how anyone hunts.. more power to ya. I know what works for me cause I live it every archery season. 

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## jdaf (Sep 9, 2013)

westmichigander said:


> I get ya, no worries.
> 
> I do think if that field edge had all right pieces of the puzzle and it was an overlooked spot (entrance, parking lot, road, etc..) you just might find a mature buck hiding out there. I think Dan shows a few video clips of just that in the farm bedding dvd.
> Not sure it's just his "image" as much as it's face he's real, not selling you a gimmick, and most can relate to real life average joe hunter.
> Good Luck!


It's possible for sure. I've just yet to see it, guys drive deer here. They leave no stone unturned and blow out everything everywhere lol. 

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## 3D Pinwheeler (Jan 29, 2007)

zeee said:


> So John wears scent lok and he doesn't pay attention to the wind .I believe that because I hunted a stand where the wind direction was wrong for that stand. I gad scent lok.I killed my biggest buck ever. he was really close to being downwind of me I'm talking 30 yards away and maybe ten steps from being directly down when I smoked him. For you guys that don't use scent control and you hunt by the wind. you would not have sat that stand and you would not have got that buck either.
> With the combination of ozone and carbon I beat most deer most of the time.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


LOL look forward to your write up in North American Whitetail.


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## 3D Pinwheeler (Jan 29, 2007)

Watch at 8 minute or so mark.
Rifle season in Wisconsin.
Jake and 5 others hunting their 15 acre property. Look at the neighbors right on the borders lol thats a lot of pressure to me. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yX29nCMMT44


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## zeee (May 19, 2018)

3D Pinwheeler said:


> LOL look forward to your write up in North American Whitetail.


I emailed them. they said they're not interested in a 67 incher.

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## jdaf (Sep 9, 2013)

3D Pinwheeler said:


> Watch at 8 minute or so mark.
> Rifle season in Wisconsin.
> Jake and 5 others hunting their 15 acre property. Look at the neighbors right on the borders lol thats a lot of pressure to me.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yX29nCMMT44


Theres no doubt WI has pressure areas... all I am saying is theres a way better chance of killing a 5 or 6 year old there than PA or MI... these are facts. When I hear Dan say some of the things he says... for anyone thats in an extreme pressure area and has been hunting it a while red flags go up. Thats all, and its only some things that he says not everything


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## pinwheeled (Apr 27, 2008)

Who is John Eberhart?


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## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

Pressured deer killin machine.


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## zeee (May 19, 2018)

pinwheeled said:


> Who is John Eberhart?


Lives in mi. Drives a minivan. Shoots fingers. Cuts collars off his jackets. Hunts from a saddle really high up. Wears scent lok. Killed many p&y bucks.

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## jdaf (Sep 9, 2013)

zeee said:


> Lives in mi. Drives a minivan. Shoots fingers. Cuts collars off his jackets. Hunts from a saddle really high up. Wears scent lok. Killed many p&y bucks.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


This sums it up... lol


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## pinwheeled (Apr 27, 2008)

zeee said:


> Lives in mi. Drives a minivan. Shoots fingers. Cuts collars off his jackets. Hunts from a saddle really high up. Wears scent lok. Killed many p&y bucks.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


oh!


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## jdaf (Sep 9, 2013)

I will say the more I listen to Infalt the more stuff he says that I like, one thing is there are no absolutes and every situation is different. Theres really no canned way to hunt as many "hunting shows" will tell you there is. I see him encouraging guys to get out and scout and learn their area and what the deer do.


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## zeee (May 19, 2018)

The hunting Beast vs. a guy that drives a minivan

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## jdaf (Sep 9, 2013)

zeee said:


> The hunting Beast vs. a guy that drives a minivan
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


Hard to argue the success they both have had... Goes to show apparently there's more than one way to skin a cat 

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## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

I wonder who has more total inches killed?

Any guesses?


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## ShaneC (Oct 21, 2007)

I have watched and listened to a lot of their podcast and videos. After the scent podcast and the way John talked about Dan and his hunting methods I lost a lot of respect for him that day. Quite disappointing.


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## crankn101 (Jan 26, 2007)

I dont remember ever hearing of this John guy except for this interview that I still hevent listened to. It honestly sounds like our hunting styles are similar but mine are a modified version of Dan and Andrae's or maybe just Andrae's from the late 90s.


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## Bassattackr (Oct 23, 2009)

ShaneC said:


> After the scent podcast and the way John talked about Dan and his hunting methods I lost a lot of respect for him that day. Quite disappointing.


Agreed. I know John has killed a lot of nice bucks but he's an arrogant tool. Totally dismissive to anyone else and their methods, all about selling his stuff or plugging Scentlok.. barf.

That being said, I just started listening and following Dan this year, surprised how forthcoming and helpful he is with his (real world) information to fellow hunters. Pretty cool.


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## archer8030 (Jul 24, 2006)

Bassattackr said:


> Totally dismissive to anyone else and their methods....




You must think a lot of people here on AT are tools then too! LOL!!! :set1_rolf2::set1_rolf2:


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## zeee (May 19, 2018)

Hahaha that was funny. Aint no tools on archerytalk. I finished listening to number two this is a pretty good thread and podcast. OK so Dan stinks.no scent control at all. In a lot of his videos he has Bed Head clearly he is unshowered. He mainly hunts bedding areas he says you got to get 60 yards from them bedded down without them knowing it. I agree
John is very clean drives a minivan claims he can beat their sniffer with scet lock he doesn't really mention bedding areas he hunts destinations. Sometimes he hunts pinch points but he says he's a "destination guy."
Both of these guys have had a lot of success in the Whitetail woods and they're opposites.
I definitely agree with the Dan on the hunting bedding areas though. Unless they live on Mark Drury property they're going to hang tight until it gets dark.you gotta get close.

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## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

zeee said:


> Unless they live on Mark Drury property they're going to hang tight until it gets dark.you gotta get close.


Unless they are out looking for doe during the rut which is when most people hunt bucks.


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## jeff25 (Dec 8, 2011)

jdaf said:


> Theres no doubt WI has pressure areas... all I am saying is theres a way better chance of killing a 5 or 6 year old there than PA or MI... these are facts. When I hear Dan say some of the things he says... for anyone thats in an extreme pressure area and has been hunting it a while red flags go up. Thats all, and its only some things that he says not everything


Dan talks about going to Michigan in one of his pod cast because some guys called him out. Went to their property and killed 2 bucks bigger than they ever had in less than a week


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## bghunter7311 (Oct 25, 2017)

Money talkes even levi who I respect was humping some apple windicator as the reason he killed a deer recently


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## jdaf (Sep 9, 2013)

I believe it.. I decided to finish his farm DVD last night and some of the things he says are exactly what I am seeing in the woods where I hunt, as a matter of fact everything I am seeing on the one property I hunt all the sudden made sense, a couple lights went on and I was able to put some pieces together that I wasnt able to before, so I was a little premature in forming an opinion. I am going to watch the hill country and get his swamp and marsh dvds as well. I think its def going to make me a much better hunter. He knows his stuff.


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## 3D Pinwheeler (Jan 29, 2007)

jdaf said:


> I believe it.. I decided to finish his farm DVD last night and some of the things he says are exactly what I am seeing in the woods where I hunt, as a matter of fact everything I am seeing on the one property I hunt all the sudden made sense, a couple lights went on and I was able to put some pieces together that I wasnt able to before, so I was a little premature in forming an opinion. I am going to watch the hill country and get his swamp and marsh dvds as well. I think its def going to make me a much better hunter. He knows his stuff.


All his DVD's are good


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## 3D Pinwheeler (Jan 29, 2007)

bghunter7311 said:


> Money talkes even levi who I respect was humping some apple windicator as the reason he killed a deer recently


That was pretty bad, I saw that episode. Dan Infalt would call that Pixie dust


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## jdaf (Sep 9, 2013)

jeff25 said:


> Dan talks about going to Michigan in one of his pod cast because some guys called him out. Went to their property and killed 2 bucks bigger than they ever had in less than a week


I believe it.. I decided to finish his farm DVD last night and some of the things he says are exactly what I am seeing in the woods where I hunt, as a matter of fact everything I am seeing on the one property I hunt all the sudden made sense, a couple lights went on and I was able to put some pieces together that I wasnt able to before, so I was a little premature in forming an opinion. I am going to watch the hill country and get his swamp and marsh dvds as well. I think its def going to make me a much better hunter. He knows his stuff.


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## d_rek (Nov 26, 2013)

jeff25 said:


> Dan talks about going to Michigan in one of his pod cast because some guys called him out. Went to their property and killed 2 bucks bigger than they ever had in less than a week


Do you know which episode? I’m slowly working my way through the HB podcasts. 


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## _Splinter_ (Sep 10, 2018)

Dan Infalt has probably forgotten more than most will ever know about deer and deer hunting. When he talks I typically listen. The Hunting Public guys are also great (Infalt inspired). I have went mobile this season, both in a tree and on the ground. I don't have a buck at the taxidermist from this November but I did have some really cool encounters with deer by changing my tactics. Overall I feel that listening to the guys from THP and Infalt have helped me as a hunter.


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## zeee (May 19, 2018)

The one from Wisconsin says I am the hunting Beast.
the one from Michigan says I am going to get a minivan 

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## jdaf (Sep 9, 2013)

zeee said:


> The one from Wisconsin says I am the hunting Beast.
> the one from Michigan says I am going to get a minivan
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


True... But both have more record heads on their walls than anyone I know lol 

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## Mohegan (Dec 10, 2015)

Have definitely learned from watching THP, found the Hunting Beast through THP this spring, found Eberhart watching Beast video's this fall on YouTube. Like Zap stated earlier, I have picked up bits and pieces from each of them, would not even consider arguing with either ones success, but for me Infalt is a stone cold Slayer, and way more personable in a real world sense. After watching the "minivan setup" vid i was kinda overwhelmed with the obsessive compulsive scent control regimen, but absolutely respect the trust in tried and true older tools and technology, confidence goes a long way in any endeavor, BUT John lost me at manscaping.
Watching and listening to The Hunting Beast has me wanting to buy a LW stand and some Beast sticks, and I'm kinda scared of heights/hang-ons. I'm gonna work on that. THP has me hunting Public more often (private i have permission is pretty small), but I need to be mobile. Definitely looking forward to watching that farm country DVD, I've learned/relearned more this year than I have in the past 25.
I did the scent control thing pretty seriously years ago, but don't buy into it now. Using milkweed this season has really opened my eyes to what I guessed had been happening years earlier, but now I can verify. I do buy "hunting" detergent, but just because I can't find "unscented" detergent- that's it.


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## Sparrowhawk (Oct 19, 2003)

It would be cool to have a tournament, like a bass tournament or something like that where all "the pros" and average joes came to one massive piece of public land for a week long hunt.


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## huntin_addict (Jan 25, 2006)

Mohegan said:


> Have definitely learned from watching THP, found the Hunting Beast through THP this spring, found Eberhart watching Beast video's this fall on YouTube. Like Zap stated earlier, I have picked up bits and pieces from each of them, would not even consider arguing with either ones success, but for me Infalt is a stone cold Slayer, and way more personable in a real world sense. After watching the "minivan setup" vid i was kinda overwhelmed with the obsessive compulsive scent control regimen, but absolutely respect the trust in tried and true older tools and technology, confidence goes a long way in any endeavor, BUT John lost me at manscaping.
> Watching and listening to The Hunting Beast has me wanting to buy a LW stand and some Beast sticks, and I'm kinda scared of heights/hang-ons. I'm gonna work on that. THP has me hunting Public more often (private i have permission is pretty small), but I need to be mobile. Definitely looking forward to watching that farm country DVD, I've learned/relearned more this year than I have in the past 25.
> I did the scent control thing pretty seriously years ago, but don't buy into it now. Using milkweed this season has really opened my eyes to what I guessed had been happening years earlier, but now I can verify. I do buy "hunting" detergent, but just because I can't find "unscented" detergent- that's it.


There are several scent free detergents, many for sensitive skin. Look for perfume and dye free stuff. I use that because I don't like my stuff smelling like a french *****house.


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## mn5503 (Feb 21, 2006)

Only one way to settle this, cage match...


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## crankn101 (Jan 26, 2007)

Indian leg wrasslin


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## zeee (May 19, 2018)

Sparrowhawk said:


> It would be cool to have a tournament, like a bass tournament or something like that where all "the pros" and average joes came to one massive piece of public land for a week long hunt.


I'd love to see what mark Drury could do on public land. I mean his tactics do work. you know like acquire prestigious properties, keep people off ,let them get kinda tame and big. It's a great tactic not easy to do though

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


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## mn5503 (Feb 21, 2006)

zeee said:


> I'd love to see what mark Drury could do on public land. I mean his tactics do work. you know like acquire prestigious properties, keep people off ,let them get kinda tame and big. It's a great tactic not easy to do though
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


Toss 'em in the cage too, let's finish this...


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## Sparrowhawk (Oct 19, 2003)

mn5503 said:


> Toss 'em in the cage too, let's finish this...


Would the cage have scent free wipes and a leeward side?


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## muzzypower (Sep 14, 2005)

Of course, it would be in a shooting house


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## Sparrowhawk (Oct 19, 2003)

Death by ozonics to all false metal!


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## Ano Mous (Mar 3, 2021)

I’m not a big John Eberhart fan. But Dan Infalt seems to know his stuff. I think Dan is way more informative and knows a few things that Eberhart doesn’t know. But anyways I don’t trust Eberhart. I think he’s arrogant in my opinion. Dan is much more down to earth. There was a guy on a hunting forum that said he’s been hunting southern Michigan public land for 32 years and has only seen 2 big bucks. And never harvested any of them. Now I believe that. But Eberhart has harvested 31 P&Ys on Southern Michigan public land?????? Now that’s hard for me to believe he’s that much better of a hunter. Maybe he’s harvested that many P&Ys but HOW and WHERE is my question. I’m just not buying it.


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## TheTracker (Sep 11, 2009)

Ano Mous said:


> I’m not a big John Eberhart fan. But Dan Infalt seems to know his stuff. I think Dan is way more informative and knows a few things that Eberhart doesn’t know. But anyways I don’t trust Eberhart. I think he’s arrogant in my opinion. Dan is much more down to earth. There was a guy on a hunting forum that said he’s been hunting southern Michigan public land for 32 years and has only seen 2 big bucks. And never harvested any of them. Now I believe that. But Eberhart has harvested 31 P&Ys on Southern Michigan public land?????? Now that’s hard for me to believe he’s that much better of a hunter. Maybe he’s harvested that many P&Ys but HOW and WHERE is my question. I’m just not buying it.


Same here.

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## Bigmike23 (Dec 16, 2012)

How does infalts name come up this much on one forum


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## TheTracker (Sep 11, 2009)

Bigmike23 said:


> How does infalts name come up this much on one forum


If I had to guess it's because he's a great bowhunter, Who kills big bucks without all the BS scent control gimmicks.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


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## Post.Malone (Feb 18, 2019)

Bigmike23 said:


> How does infalts name come up this much on one forum


People that love him are obsessed with him and people that hate him are obsessed with him


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## boonerbrad (Nov 30, 2006)

TheTracker said:


> If I had to guess it's because he's a great bowhunter, Who kills big bucks without all the BS scent control gimmicks.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


You should check your facts before stating how great of a bow hunter he is. His best bucks are gun kills.


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## ForestPhantom (Aug 22, 2007)

They both know deer. I have taken bits of knowledge from both of them. As far as personalities or where who shot what, I don't care. It takes a lot of time to accomplish what they have on public or private land. It also takes a lot of time to piece it together for us to learn from. I respect folks that use their time in ways that might be of help to others.


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## TheTracker (Sep 11, 2009)

Boonerbrad said:


> You should check your facts before stating how great of a bow hunter he is. His best bucks are gun kills.


My facts are just fine, Go EAD and learn how to comprehend. 

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


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## boonerbrad (Nov 30, 2006)

TheTracker said:


> My facts are just fine, Go EAD next time you're thinking of trying to correct me. Cheers
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


What does EAD mean?


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## TheTracker (Sep 11, 2009)

Boonerbrad said:


> What does EAD mean?


You're as sharp as a marble. 

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## Post.Malone (Feb 18, 2019)

Every Dan Infalt thread involves people defending Dan. At some point Brad jumping in and bashing him. All we are missing now is 12 ringer jumping in with a 5,000 word count post about why he hates him


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## boonerbrad (Nov 30, 2006)

Post.Malone said:


> Every Dan Infalt thread involves people defending Dan. At some point Brad jumping in and bashing him. All we are missing now is 12 ringer jumping in with a 5,000 word count post about why he hates him


How did i bash him? Simply stated the fact that he seldom bow kills high scoring bucks and his biggest are gun kills. Yet guys here are begging to sniff his quiver. Made two posts in this entire thread before this one.


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## Post.Malone (Feb 18, 2019)

Boonerbrad said:


> How did i bash him? Simply stated the fact that he seldom bow kills high scoring bucks and his biggest are gun kills. Yet guys here are begging to sniff his quiver. Made two posts in this entire thread before this one.


Right. You would never bash Dan Infalt


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## TheTracker (Sep 11, 2009)

Boonerbrad said:


> How did i bash him? Simply stated the fact that he seldom bow kills high scoring bucks and his biggest are gun kills. Yet guys here are begging to sniff his quiver. Made two posts in this entire thread before this one.


So saying someone is a good bowhunter makes then a quiver sniffer? Lmfao you're a knockoff of OhioBooner.

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## Hlzr (Dec 26, 2016)

I'm not an Eberhart fan, he comes off loud and arrogant, I think Infalt has great instincts and has been lucky enough to hunt Wisconsin, I think the Pa and Mich public land challenge was a good representation of his hunting expertise.


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## Ano Mous (Mar 3, 2021)

zeee said:


> I'd love to see what mark Drury could do on public land. I mean his tactics do work. you know like acquire prestigious properties, keep people off ,let them get kinda tame and big. It's a great tactic not easy to do though
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


I agree 100%. I can’t stand Mark Drury. Arrogant and cocky. Thinks he can critique everyone’s hunt. Infalt over Drury any day.


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## Ano Mous (Mar 3, 2021)

Hlzr said:


> I'm not an Eberhart fan, he comes off loud and arrogant, I think Infalt has great instincts and has been lucky enough to hunt Wisconsin, I think the Pa and Mich public land challenge was a good representation of his hunting expertise.


I totally agree.


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## boonerbrad (Nov 30, 2006)

TheTracker said:


> So saying someone is a good bowhunter makes then a quiver sniffer? Lmfao you're a knockoff of OhioBooner.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


For someone not wanting the quiver sniffer label you sure get fired up about your idol not killing good bucks. Has he killed a Pope and Young buck in the last decade? How is a guy a good bow hunter when his best animals are all gun kills?


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## boonerbrad (Nov 30, 2006)

Post.Malone said:


> Right. You would never bash Dan Infalt


How are stating facts bashing? Show me one time i bashed him. Maybe the facts are not what some want to hear but so be it.


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## Post.Malone (Feb 18, 2019)

Boonerbrad said:


> How are stating facts bashing? Show me one time i bashed him. Maybe the facts are not what some want to hear but so be it.


I'm too lazy to look but it seems like in every thread you have something negative to say about him. Lately anyways. You used to like the guy


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## TheTracker (Sep 11, 2009)

Boonerbrad said:


> For someone not wanting the quiver sniffer label you sure get fired up about your idol not killing good bucks. Has he killed a Pope and Young buck in the last decade? How is a guy a good bow hunter when his best animals are all gun kills?


Not my idol, Just a good bowhunter and outdoorsman. Since when does killing "Only big bucks" make you a good bowhunter?


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## lovetohunt93 (Aug 3, 2010)

Does anyone know how long John has been hunting out of a saddle? Or how many book bucks he has? 
Haha, sorry, had to...

IMO, if a deer is going to smell you, its going to smell you no matter what. They can smell about 60 times better than us. Be mindful of your scent, hunt the wind, and hope for the best.


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## Blackeagle1 (Aug 19, 2014)

TheTracker said:


> Not my idol, Just a good bowhunter and outdoorsman. Since when does killing "Only big bucks" make you a good bowhunter?


I believe he goes by BIG buck serial killer. So I guess he does.


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## boonerbrad (Nov 30, 2006)

TheTracker said:


> Not my idol, Just a good bowhunter and outdoorsman. Since when does killing "Only big bucks" make you a good bowhunter?


It is his claim to fame. So apparently he does.


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## bsites9 (Mar 22, 2008)

Sparrowhawk said:


> It would be cool to have a tournament, like a bass tournament or something like that where all "the pros" and average joes came to one massive piece of public land for a week long hunt.


I know this is a post from a couple years back, but a bunch of guys have done just that for the last couple of years. Public Land Hunting Challenge. 

IMO, which is worth far less than 2 cents...every name mentioned in this thread is highly skilled. All the arrogance, scentlok, minivans, gun/bow, public/private etc....doesn't matter to me. I wouldn't "look up" to any of these guys anymore than I look up to a pro athlete. I listen to what they say, try to use as much as I can to make me a better hunter. If they're trying to push some bogus product, I tune it out until something useful comes up again.


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## Bigmike23 (Dec 16, 2012)

Regardless whose "better", Ive always gotten the vibe from Dan that he does what he does just because he has such immense love of nature and the chase. With Eberhart I've gotten the vibe he does it to prove he's better than others. Like it's all about being a competition. The real turnoff for me of John is when he said on a podcast he didn't like to take his kids hunting because it effects his hunting.


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## TheTracker (Sep 11, 2009)

Bigmike23 said:


> Regardless whose "better", Ive always gotten the vibe from Dan that he does what he does just because he has such immense love of nature and the chase. With Eberhart I've gotten the vibe he does it to prove he's better than others. Like it's all about being a competition. The real turnoff for me of John is when he said on a podcast he didn't like to take his kids hunting because it effects his hunting.


Not taking your kids hunting because you might miss a deer is just sad as fk. Thank god my dad wasn't selfish like that.

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## BearArchery1991 (Jun 23, 2013)

I’ve studied both. John describes scent control as somewhat of a trickery. Meaning, a deer can judge distance based on how strong the smell is. John says the idea behind scent control isn’t to completely eliminate scent (that’s impossible) but to make the danger seem further than it actually is. The deer still smells you, but if he thinks you’re 300 yards away vs 100, he may not just bolt and run and may offer up some sort of shot. Me, I agree with Dan. Play the wind, to hell with scent control. That deer knows you’re there regardless if he smells you.


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## Ano Mous (Mar 3, 2021)

mn5503 said:


> Toss 'em in the cage too, let's finish this...


Lol. Very true


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## dougell (Aug 29, 2014)

Bigmike23 said:


> Regardless whose "better", Ive always gotten the vibe from Dan that he does what he does just because he has such immense love of nature and the chase. With Eberhart I've gotten the vibe he does it to prove he's better than others. Like it's all about being a competition. The real turnoff for me of John is when he said on a podcast he didn't like to take his kids hunting because it effects his hunting.


I never paid attention to either of these guys but did one of them actually say that?


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## TheTracker (Sep 11, 2009)

dougell said:


> I never paid attention to either of these guys but did one of them actually say that?


Eberhart said it on a podcast.

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## dougell (Aug 29, 2014)

Wow.That's a shame.My son tagged along with me since he was old enough to walk and was begging me to let him hunt when he turned 7.I felt he was ready but he was gonna have to hunt the way I hunted.I dedicated that rifle season to him and he shocked me at how well he did and how alert and serious he was.That was 8 years ago and to this day,it's still about him.Honestly,I actually feel bad for people who never get a chance to experience that with their kids.


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## K9-26 (Oct 25, 2006)

Now I wanna hear that podcast. That to me is not what hunting is suppose to be about, but I'm obviously not him.


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## conservewild (Sep 24, 2019)

Eberharts entire scent lok BS turns me off of him and Dan seems fine but largely his kills are attributed to time spent hunting each season more than some secret sauce knowledge.


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## Leethedestroyer (Oct 25, 2021)

I started over on deer hunting tactics about 10 years ago, threw away every thing I knew. John's videos started my change and Dan's are refining it. Scent Loc works if you're anal as John, period. It's a lot of work most won't do. Things like wiping down your equipment with h2o2, keeping your clothes uncontaminated is very time consuming. On the other hand, my best bow buck came while hunting beast style, scouting my way in, reading the sign,hunting off the ground wearing flannel. Anything you do to reduce scent is good but there are no absolutes.


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## TheTracker (Sep 11, 2009)

Leethedestroyer said:


> I started over on deer hunting tactics about 10 years ago, threw away every thing I knew. John's videos started my change and Dan's are refining it. Scent Loc works if you're anal as John, period. It's a lot of work most won't do. Things like wiping down your equipment with h2o2, keeping your clothes uncontaminated is very time consuming. On the other hand, my best bow buck came while hunting beast style, scouting my way in, reading the sign,hunting off the ground wearing flannel. Anything you do to reduce scent is good but there are no absolutes.


When it's cold outside watch how much condensation your breath has when you breathe out. Those are hundreds of different bacteria scent molecules you're releasing into the air with every breath. So it's pretty pointless to pay extra for the scentlok crap.

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## raisins (Jan 21, 2016)

TheTracker said:


> When it's cold outside watch how much condensation your breath has when you breathe out. Those are hundreds of different bacteria scent molecules you're releasing into the air with every breath. So it's pretty pointless to pay extra for the scentlok crap.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


I consult in an industry that uses activated carbon to remove chemicals from various things. Once it loses effectiveness, to recharge it you have to place the carbon in a kiln and heat it to a temperature much higher than a drier and so hot that it would destroy any fabric (carbon is effective because it easily forms bonds with many molecules but because it does this so well it also hangs onto these scent molecules, so you cannot remove them in a home drier). Several organic chemists have stated the same all over the internet. It has also been tested with dogs and it is not effective.

It's a bunch of snake oil but people get lucky with it or it works when new and so they then swear by it (like how a pitcher gets superstitious about washing his hat because he threw a no hitter once with a dirty hat).

EDIT: It would probably be more effective to buy powder activated carbon and keep it sealed up and buy new periodically (it is pretty cheap by the bag) and then soak your regular clothes in a (distilled?) water slurry of it before every hunt with fresh carbon. But you'd end up looking like a coal miner and getting it all over you and in your eyes probably. Also, it is an inhalation hazard and highly explosive if in the air (so home use and storage is dangerous). If you have a bunch of fine carbon floating in a room and then introduce a spark, it is similar if not worse than a grain silo explosion.


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## raisins (Jan 21, 2016)

Bigmike23 said:


> Regardless whose "better", Ive always gotten the vibe from Dan that he does what he does just because he has such immense love of nature and the chase. With Eberhart I've gotten the vibe he does it to prove he's better than others. Like it's all about being a competition. The real turnoff for me of John is when he said on a podcast he didn't like to take his kids hunting because it effects his hunting.


Most people would enjoy hanging out with Dan a lot more.


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## TheTracker (Sep 11, 2009)

raisins said:


> I consult in an industry that uses activated carbon to remove chemicals from various things. Once it loses effectiveness, to recharge it you have to place the carbon in a kiln and heat it to a temperature much higher than a drier and so hot that it would destroy any fabric (carbon is effective because it easily forms bonds with many molecules but because it does this so well it also hangs onto these scent molecules, so you cannot remove them in a home drier). Several organic chemists have stated the same all over the internet. It has also been tested with dogs and it is not effective.
> 
> It's a bunch of snake oil but people get lucky with it or it works when new and so they then swear by it (like how a pitcher gets superstitious about washing his hat because he threw a no hitter once with a dirty hat).


Agreed, I was arguing with a guy on FB yesterday saying a doe was downwind of him and didn't bust him, I was like it's simple either the doe smelled you and didn't care (Unlikely) or the wind carried your scent past her nose and she didn't smell you. But I was like if your scent makes it to her nose there's nothing you're going to do to fool it, Dude said I was full of ****.

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## raisins (Jan 21, 2016)

TheTracker said:


> Agreed, I was arguing with a guy on FB yesterday saying a doe was downwind of him and didn't bust him, I was like it's simple either the doe smelled you and didn't care (Unlikely) or the wind carried your scent past her nose and she didn't smell you. But I was like if your scent makes it to her nose there's nothing you're going to do to fool it, Dude said I was full of ****.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


It's also sunk cost fallacy. People spend all this money and get a head of steam about it, and then you come along and try to pull off Santa's beard. They then would have to realize they were wrong in the past, that they wasted money, and then they don't get to feel good about their purchase and talk to others about it. Like Twain said, it is easier to fool a man than convince him that he has been fooled. 

Everyone that has bowhunted long enough has had deer down wind of their stand at times and not gotten busted, it's usually you are high enough and the wind is circulating to raise your scent over their heads.


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## TheTracker (Sep 11, 2009)

raisins said:


> It's also sunk cost fallacy. People spend all this money and get a head of steam about it, and then you come along and try to pull off Santa's beard. They then would have to realize they were wrong in the past, that they wasted money, and then they don't get to feel good about their purchase and talk to others about it. Like Twain said, it is easier to fool a man than convince him that he has been fooled.
> 
> Everyone that has bowhunted long enough has had deer down wind of their stand at times and not gotten busted, it's usually you are high enough and the wind is circulating to raise your scent over their heads.


I had a incident happen 4 years ago where a nice buck seen me move just a little in my saddle but couldn't make me out or smell me as he was upwind of me, That damn buck ran a huge circle probably a 100 yards around me and was about 80-100 yards downwind of me. He stood down there and was licking his nose like crazy with his snout in the air, Once he got a whiff he started snort wheezing and was gone. Honestly probably one of the coolest things I've ever seen.

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## boonerbrad (Nov 30, 2006)

raisins said:


> It's also sunk cost fallacy. People spend all this money and get a head of steam about it, and then you come along and try to pull off Santa's beard. They then would have to realize they were wrong in the past, that they wasted money, and then they don't get to feel good about their purchase and talk to others about it. Like Twain said, it is easier to fool a man than convince him that he has been fooled.
> 
> Everyone that has bowhunted long enough has had deer down wind of their stand at times and not gotten busted, it's usually you are high enough and the wind is circulating to raise your scent over their heads.


Usually thermals that guys simply don't understand mornings,evenings and terrain. No amount of human clothing/gimmicks can save you from a deer's nose period.


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## Smada962 (Dec 25, 2007)

I think Dan seems like he'd be more down to earth, but both are very good hunters. Very different styles, but both skilled and accomplished. Like so many other areas of life now people pick their favorite for whatever reason then fiercely dig in and feel like they have to hate the other side. Dan's following is substantially more loyal and larger though for sure since he does seem to connect with the average man a lot more than Jon.


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## PreacherMan76 (Aug 31, 2016)

John is a no go for me because of his arrogance and the fact that he never took his kids hunting because they would have messed things up. To me that just tells me what a self centered person you are. 

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## retrieverfishin (Oct 18, 2010)

Bought and used scent lok. Had tacos night before. Farted on stand. Smelled fart. Gave up on scent lok.


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## raisins (Jan 21, 2016)

Boonerbrad said:


> Usually thermals that guys simply don't understand mornings,evenings and terrain. No amount of human clothing/gimmicks can save you from a deer's nose period.


yep, that's why i'm a big fan of dropping milkweed on stand

i love it when i drop the milkweed and it just floats up in the air and into la la land....i know during the time that is happening that any buck that walks in probably won't smell me


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## raisins (Jan 21, 2016)

retrieverfishin said:


> Bought and used scent lok. Had tacos night before. Farted on stand. Smelled fart. Gave up on scent lok.


you know, that's actually a pretty valid experiment

now we just need you to replicate it like 30 times to run statistics on it....i hope none include a shart


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## doubledeuce81 (2 mo ago)

John Eberhart has 53 record book bucks to his credit, most of those coming from public land in the most heavily hunted state in the country.....if you go to Jay's Sporting Goods in Clare, Michigan, the walls are covered with his trophies.....not sure how many Dan Infalt has to his credit,but I'm guessing it's considerably less than 53. Plus. I prefer my hunting advice come without political opinions.


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## doubledeuce81 (2 mo ago)

John Eberhart has 53 record book bucks to his credit, most of which came from public land in the most heavily hunted state in the country. If you set foot in Jay's Sporting Goods store in Clare Michigan, you'll be surrounded by the trophies he's taken. I'm not sure how many record book bucks Dan Infalt has to his credit, but I'm willing to bet it's far fewer than 53.....plus, I prefer my hunting advice come without petty political opinions.


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## Ybuck (Apr 21, 2007)

lets go brandon


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## Hudsy (Jan 23, 2017)

I follow them both on YouTube, but take both with a grain of salt. I wouldn’t necessarily want to hang out with either. 


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## crankn101 (Jan 26, 2007)




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## readonly (Nov 20, 2008)

doubledeuce81 said:


> John Eberhart has 53 record book bucks to his credit, most of those coming from public land in the most heavily hunted state in the country.....if you go to Jay's Sporting Goods in Clare, Michigan, the walls are covered with his trophies.....not sure how many Dan Infalt has to his credit,but I'm guessing it's considerably less than 53. Plus. I prefer my hunting advice come without political opinions.


John Eberhart strikes me as the type of guy to create a fake account just to come and remind us how great he is....


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## doubledeuce81 (2 mo ago)

Look at the trophy wall if you need a reminder.

Valid point Hudsy.


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## rober2wt (Feb 12, 2017)

doubledeuce81 said:


> Look at the trophy wall if you need a reminder.
> 
> Valid point Hudsy.


Just for clarity… when you say record books, John is submitting every dink P&Y deer he shoots. It’s not like he’s pulling B&C deer off public land every year. Plenty of accomplished hunters out there that could easily submit the same resume, but don’t.


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## doubledeuce81 (2 mo ago)

Bullshit.


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## rober2wt (Feb 12, 2017)

doubledeuce81 said:


> Bullshit.



that’s not 50 deer.
John hasn’t hunted Michigan exclusively.

the man kills deer. We get it. Most of us aren’t that obsessive and measure our value against other metrics… like spending time afield with your children.

FWIW, I’ve met multiple people with boxes of antlers and skull caps like this in their garage collecting dust.


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## doubledeuce81 (2 mo ago)

True enough, John hunts with his boys as well, and of course that's not all of the bucks ,several are hanging on the walls of Jay's in Clare.
I didn't set the terms of the debate, others commented before I did regarding the trophies. Feel free to post photos of Dan's trophy room for comparison, or him hunting with his family members. I'd be very interested.


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## Jasonmorgan518 (Feb 4, 2018)

I've watched, read and learned from both of them. They both give good information and I think at the end of the day a hunter needs confidence. And if that means being over the top on scent control, or scouting and reading sign on the fly either method of thought just may give a hunter the confidence and the edge he needs.


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## doubledeuce81 (2 mo ago)

You're 100% correct Jason.


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## rober2wt (Feb 12, 2017)

doubledeuce81 said:


> True enough, John hunts with his boys as well, and of course that's not all of the bucks ,several are hanging on the walls of Jay's in Clare.
> I didn't set the terms of the debate, others commented before I did regarding the trophies. Feel free to post photos of Dan's trophy room for comparison, or him hunting with his family members. I'd be very interested.


John, that you?


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## rsk76 (Jun 11, 2016)




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## doubledeuce81 (2 mo ago)

Yeah Dan it's me.


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