# What does it take to shoot well at the national level?



## pwyrick (Feb 13, 2011)

Just got home from this weekend's ASA event, and I write this while it was fresh on my mind. Got my first podium. I'm not writing this to pound my chest but to see if I can contribute something that has been painful for me to learn, and to learn more from your opinions/experiece. Something "obvious" that took me a while to learn: it takes time to learn how to shoot at the top of your class at the national level. I've put in hard work and hard study to become a better shooter, but "something" always went wrong at the national level that never happened at the club level. And, it was always something different from the last time that I didn't do my best. So, here's what I have finally learned that it takes for me to shoot well at a national event. I'm going to assume good form, solid shot routine and adequate practice. For me to shoot well, I absolutely need a strategy, and no matter the circumstances, I must not deviate from that strategy. For this thread, my specific strategy is not that important. It's just important that mine is clearly defined, and that I am totally committed to it. We shot in a steady rain on Saturday. Some of our good/great shooters struggled. By the final target, I knew that I was in great shape. So, I deviated from my strategy, got conservative and passive, and dropped two points. Still in 3rd place at the end of the day. Beautiful weather on Sunday morning but the sun created difficult judging conditions. I have to admit that I started out feeling some stress. I got down early in the round. At about the seventh target I started to consider getting more aggressive to see if I could shoot my way back. Internally, I knew that for me that was a prescription for failure. I stayed true to my strategy, shots started to fall, and I finished 3rd for the weekend.
It has taken me 5 years, shooting at least 6 ASA events per year, to develop and commit to a strategy. 
I'm interested in what it takes for you to shoot well at the national level. I'm very interested in responses from spot/field shooters. I have developed great respect for the difference in the disciplines. While my discipline requires me to shoot the first shot of the day 20 times in a row. I think the repetitive shooting disciplines require something very different. 
Thanks in advance for the responses.


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## RCR_III (Mar 19, 2011)

I don't have the experience at the national level to give of my take, but I did want to say congratulations on not just your podium finish this weekend, but overcoming the adversity that surrounded breaking through that barrier. Awesome job and I hope the success continues for you! 

Thanks for you post/testimony btw.


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## MQ5BPilot (May 12, 2017)

While I'm an amateur with archery, I have a lot of competition experience in other areas.. What I've found FOR ME in both national and international competition, is to focus on the details, and not sweat the big picture. By that I mean, I don't focus on the score, where I am ranked, or anything else related to the competition.. I focus on the details of the task. In this case it would be to focus on making the best shot possible, and treating each shot as a singular unit. By that I mean, you don't let a previous shot affect the next. Anything you've done in the past, be it last year, or last shot, can't be changed. So your best bet is to focus on THIS shot, and not let the previous mistakes into your head, except to refine and eliminate them.


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## ar1220 (May 18, 2014)

I know exactly what your talking about...I played kinda safe in the rain on Saturday and ended up within striking distance of the leaders or so I thought..welcome in Sunday morning I was 4 up at the turn and ended up misjudging a target for a 5 and I knew deep down to get it back in and stay in the 10 for what remained because we were to finish on a pretty tough run of targets..but anyway I mashed the gas and got aggressive too aggressive and really cost me in the end


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

I liked everything you just mentioned pwyrick, To me you have to go to enough of them to get a feel for what it takes to be on the podium and then you train to get to that level and during that time hopefully you become normalized to the feel of a national tournament to the point where you can show up and just shoot normally like you do at a local tournament. I started shooting asa's back in 2011 and it took a few years for me to finally feel at home there. 

I do believe that there are certain things you simply can not overlook, if you are a unknown shooter you can only get to a certain level before you stop really getting to the next level of scoring. You either buy a range and have it at home and look at the actual targets or you will not jump up to a bigger level, sure you can range trash cans and fire hydrants and car tires and trees in your yard and get a little better but it isn't enough. Just take a look at Levi's scores and try and justify not having a range, I simply can't. My buddy Jason got a half range this winter and instantly won and took second place in semi pro and is shooting at a level that he was not able to shoot at just last season. He had top ten finishes in open a to win out with the 700 bucks it takes to win out of that class and then he jumps up to a higher level and has two podiums in his first two shoots on really hard courses. 

So getting your head right to go around the courses is important and then getting a range is important and always working on your execution, basically cover the bases.


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## montigre (Oct 13, 2008)

Learn to put 100% of your effort into your shot and not the score or where you finish. Practice in all conditions and with all types of distractions. Practice, practice.... and remember, it is just a game. Pick up one of the many sports mental books such as Lanny Basham's With Winning in Mind. Most of the competition at the national level is mental.


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## erdman41 (May 6, 2009)

For me not shooting 3d and only spots there really isn't any strategy involved.

Intense focus in 20-25 second bursts. Don't get too relaxed and on cruise control during the round.

Discipline on every shot. Do my shot routine every step every time.

Patience on every shot. Don't skip a step or rush my shot process.

When one of those three things is missing is when bad things will happen.

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## XForce Girl (Feb 14, 2008)

I like the OP's post and it is important to have a plan and strategy.
I don't shoot 3D any more. And with 3D it's easy to want to change strategies because every target scenario is different.
Shooting target every shot should be the same, provided it was a good shot.

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## FDJ360 (Aug 22, 2014)

MQ5BPilot said:


> While I'm an amateur with archery, I have a lot of competition experience in other areas.. What I've found FOR ME in both national and international competition, is to focus on the details, and not sweat the big picture. By that I mean, I don't focus on the score, where I am ranked, or anything else related to the competition.. I focus on the details of the task. In this case it would be to focus on making the best shot possible, and treating each shot as a singular unit. By that I mean, you don't let a previous shot affect the next. Anything you've done in the past, be it last year, or last shot, can't be changed. So your best bet is to focus on THIS shot, and not let the previous mistakes into your head, except to refine and eliminate them.


As simple as you make this sound it's probably the most solid piece of advice one can give! Also it's a mental boundary to have to get to that point. Operating in that mind set I mean. Good stuff thanks...


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## Rick! (Aug 10, 2008)

erdman41 said:


> For me not shooting 3d and only spots there really isn't any strategy involved.
> 
> Intense focus in 20-25 second bursts. Don't get too relaxed and on cruise control during the round.
> 
> ...


Scott, if you don't mind, I'm going to borrow part of your statement as it's pretty much what I do.


_Do my shot routine every step every time._
_Don't skip a step or rush my shot process._
*"Fit it in, Settle, Execute."* Repeat.
_When one of those three things is missing is when bad things will happen._


Spot shooter, 3 or 4 national events this year, first time ever doing national events. 
Midwest Open - nervous nellie
Iowa Pro-Am - 11th, shot a "Padgett" on Day One.  (it was a perfect I/O X in the wrong target)
Vegas - 3rd in Flights
Midwest Indoor Sectionals - 7th (3rd after day one)
(backyard champion stuff)
MSAA Indoor- 3rd SMFS
MAA - 1st place SMFS 5 spot, 1st Masters 25m


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## cbrunson (Oct 25, 2010)

Learn how to shoot under immense pressure and stress.


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## pwyrick (Feb 13, 2011)

Thanks for the responses. They reaffirm commitment to process and focus and one shot at a time. Regarding pressure and stress, they tend to influence my thinking. I start considering options that I don't practice. I might as well say to myself, let's consider doing something really stupid now. And with pressure, there's no substitute for pressure situations. One must get there to get some. I certainly hope to put myself in more pressure situations the rest of our shooting calendar.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

Two things I have noticed:

1. Locally many times we shoot two tournaments per weekend on sat and sun, I very rarely shoot a tremendous score both days but many times I shoot one of the two awesome. Nationally I have never had two tremendous days in a row, I have been in first place after day one two times and in second place after once. All three times I shot decent on the second day but not like I did on the first day. Likewise I have shot the highest score on day two on at least 2 or 3 occasions but the first day was just average. Putting two solid tremendous days together is what it takes to not only get on the podium but to be the winner. 

2. You just have to go to a bunch of them, I see some of the best shooters in my area get some huge wins from time to time but I also notice that they fail really bad over and over at about everything offered. The key here is that they go to freaking everything on the stinking schedule for indoor and 3d all over the nation and the fact that they are a good shooter allows them to finally put together a win from time to time. My favorite culprit of this is Chris Berry, he is a really good shooter from my area and he will screw around and win vegas and k50 and a variety of stuff and shoot awesome scores from time to time but the man goes to everything.


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## Cody305 (Sep 29, 2016)

Same goes into effect for when I was racing motocross. I was a multi time state champion, and national ranked rider. When I did a local race, it was usually just for testing and training etc. and obviously 99% of the local riders around where I lived, weren't national riders or anything like that. So you could say that when I did a local race, I didn't lose to often. But it Wasent to be cocky or anything like that. Just for training and testing. But no matter how far or big my lead was, my dad would never let me slow down, no matter how mad the other family's would get at us for showing up to these little races. And I never understood why, until he let me ease up a race, and ended up casing a triple and breaking my ankle and wrist. Then he told me, you let up on a race, and that's where you lost focus and ended up here. And after that point on, I never slowed up. It was never to be cocky, it was never to show people my skill level. I usually didn't even collect my trophy or anything in that matter because it just didn't feel right to me. I just wanted to keep my stamina sharp, make sure the new motor builds were the way they needed to be etc. no more racing for me know, to many I jury's. (24 years old and have to walk as if I'm 60 already lol) and now same goes for archery for me. Never let up. Keep the concentration as if it's my last shot


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## Rick! (Aug 10, 2008)

cbrunson said:


> Learn how to shoot under immense pressure and stress.





pwyrick said:


> ...And with pressure, there's no substitute for pressure situations. *One must get there to get some.*


The catch 22 thing for sure - you need to find out the weaknesses you don't know you have by going to a national event or two. 

I found a few in Vegas, one in Yankton...

BTW pwyrick, congrats on your podium finish.

2016 Eau Claire Archers International Dot Shoot (WAA Open) - 3rd place flights


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## erdman41 (May 6, 2009)

Rick! said:


> 2016 Eau Claire Archers International Dot Shoot (WAA Open) - 3rd place flights


Now that is some funny stuff right there!!

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## Brad Rega (Oct 31, 2002)

Time and money is what it takes. Time to practice and time and money to travel to as many competitions you can can help you reach that level. 

Back in the day before I had to work full time and support myself I was shooting one league, at least one tournament and practicing at least twice a week. The practice and tournament experience can really help boost your scores. I was very competitive nationally as a junior, even winning a national championship. And also was ranked on the top 10 USAT rankings my first year as an adult at 18. Nowadays I can occasionally throw a good score in there but definitely not as good as when I was shooting several days a week. The only difference between then and now is time and money. I often pass up local shoots because I just can't afford to miss a day of work. 

And to comment on the pressure aspect, there should be no more pressure a local event compared to a national or international event. If there is, you are guaranteed failure. You set a goal for yourself. If you get your average score or personal best, it's a good day even if you come in last place. Competing against yourself is hard enough, never mind competing against someone else whom you can't control. Many of times I have shot personal bests and broken tournament records and still lost. Scores are getting better and better and closer and closer. Look at all the people who shoot perfect at Vegas and walk away with almost nothing. It's hard to do but the best way to deal with pressure is just to not have pressure in the first place.


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## Bobmuley (Jan 14, 2004)

Brad Rega said:


> ...Look at all the people who shoot perfect at Vegas and walk away with almost nothing. It's hard to do but the best way to deal with pressure is just to not have pressure in the first place.


This is why I think we shouldn't put too much into the situation. If you can shoot a 900 and only come away with $2500 then it's not that important financially or historically. Heck even the winner only got $46K, which is nice, but its not like its going to make or break a guy's life. The prize money is nice, but not a significant factor. As egotistical beings we think we have to beat someone else, when all we have to do is be in the present mind and get out of our own way. Where you end up is where you end up...don't put anything more into than what it takes at the practice range, it doesn't need it.

I just ask Griv what you were up to a couple weeks ago...good to hear from you again.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

cbrunson said:


> Learn how to shoot under immense pressure and stress.


Learn defined; Practice under immense pressure and stress. 
Vic Wunderle practicing before his first Olympics; Radio blaring, tin cans rattling and more....


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## thawk (Mar 11, 2003)

cbrunson said:


> Learn how to shoot under immense pressure and stress.


Easier said then done, you can practice with all kinds of distractions but nothing will give you the same stress and pressure as shooting in big tournaments. We had an indoor league that was one step shy of tackle archery, loud guys all cracking jokes and telling stories and we would pound out 300's then head off to vegas and my legs would latterly shake for the first three ends, then shoot X's for five ends then the nerves would come back for the last two ends. The only way the nerves didn't come back was if I dropped a point or two. 
Outdoors was never bad for me, I just looked at big shoots the same as I did local shoots, but I never had the mental game for indoors


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

thawk said:


> Easier said then done, you can practice with all kinds of distractions but nothing will give you the same stress and pressure as shooting in big tournaments. We had an indoor league that was one step shy of tackle archery, loud guys all cracking jokes and telling stories and we would pound out 300's then head off to vegas and my legs would latterly shake for the first three ends, then shoot X's for five ends then the nerves would come back for the last two ends. The only way the nerves didn't come back was if I dropped a point or two.
> Outdoors was never bad for me, I just looked at big shoots the same as I did local shoots, but I never had the mental game for indoors


Indoors is different. At the local level it's just another event. At the state level my first was just about terrifying due to packed on the line like sardines in can, some Traditional shooter bouncing arrows off the steel exit door and this yo-yo beside me being a real azzzz. Two years later Indoors was a piece of cake, even at the State Championships. 
Took in two Nationals, ASA and IBO, and shot the Vortex Open (3D and paper target). All were just like any other event. 

Still, you can put tons of pressure and stress on yourself to help with shooting at a high profile event like Indoors.


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## thawk (Mar 11, 2003)

Maybe for you, for me, vegas was very different, even the Utah open didn't give me the nerves half as bad as vegas. My buddy missed two points in 14 weeks of shooting vegas 450 rounds, but missed his first arrow all three days in vegas! Josh even cleaned the Utah open that year.


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## Bobmuley (Jan 14, 2004)

thawk said:


> Maybe for you, for me, vegas was very different, even the Utah open didn't give me the nerves half as bad as vegas. My buddy missed two points in 14 weeks of shooting vegas 450 rounds, but missed his first arrow all three days in vegas! Josh even cleaned the Utah open that year.


Why do we do that to ourselves? You can't even buy a high end pickup with the biggest winners check....

EGO. 


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## thawk (Mar 11, 2003)

The first time I shot vegas I was shooting pretty consistent 294-295 rounds in league and practice, I went there fully thinking I was going to place or win (cause after all I was the best in my town and how could anyone shoot better then that?) wow was I impressed, plus after the nerves set in and I busted out a 285 the first day shooting next to Dee who shot 25x 300 I kinda figured out my place. Took 6 years before I shot a 300 there

Shoot good today Bob, never mind, your not going to Nevada city today, haha


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## cbrunson (Oct 25, 2010)

I guess it's probably different for some people, but for me it is the nature of being competitive. I could be satisfied with beating everyone at leagues, but that's just not the spirit of competition.

As I get better, I want to compete at a higher level against people that CAN beat me. It is an achievement thing, not an ego thing. You'll find that to be true when you are supportive of your friends when they beat you, and likewise they congratulate you when you win.


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## lees (Feb 10, 2017)

Bobmuley said:


> Why do we do that to ourselves? You can't even buy a high end pickup with the biggest winners check....
> 
> EGO.
> 
> ...


I'm still going with my insanity defense. I had one of the worst colds on record at indoor nationals this year; the drive to Albuquerque involved a descent of about 2000 feet, so by the time I got to the convention center, the ear block was bad enough to almost make me deaf. Showed up with my homemade strings on the bow that I wasn't sure were going to make it through 120 arrows (they did). All I could hear was the whistle and the announcers - my friends on the line were all in a silent movie. Last round on Sun. ended right as I started getting the chills from the fever (drove home with the heat on full blast). Cassidy Cox had like 6 holes on her entire target a few bales down; I tried not to be noticed (and I succeeded).

I was too sick to be nervous or even halfway care where I ended up. Shot a PB on Sat. in the 2nd round and only 2 or 3 8's both days. Not competitive but outstanding for me. Just showing up and getting all 120 arrows downrange (with the bow) was my goal and I met it.

Next year, I'm considering earplugs. I think the earblock, deafness and pain kind of helped me concentrate.

lee.


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## Bobmuley (Jan 14, 2004)

cbrunson said:


> ...As I get better, I want to compete at a higher level against people that CAN beat me. It is an achievement thing, not an ego thing.


No matter what level we are, we're always capable of beating ourselves. 

We need to understand those triggers of doubt, our potentials, and realities within. 

I really like the sense of achievement. It means there's work to do, or have done to get to where one is. 

But we also must realize that we can do everything right, or nearly so, and still come up short. Look at George Ryals in Vegas last year. There was only one shooter that didn't shoot a single nine. He came in 6th place. We need to be okay with that. 


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## Bobmuley (Jan 14, 2004)

lees said:


> I'm still going with my insanity defense. I had one of the worst colds on record at indoor nationals this year; the drive to Albuquerque involved a descent of about 2000 feet, so by the time I got to the convention center, the ear block was bad enough to almost make me deaf. Showed up with my homemade strings on the bow that I wasn't sure were going to make it through 120 arrows (they did). All I could hear was the whistle and the announcers - my friends on the line were all in a silent movie. Last round on Sun. ended right as I started getting the chills from the fever (drove home with the heat on full blast). Cassidy Cox had like 6 holes on her entire target a few bales down; I tried not to be noticed (and I succeeded).
> 
> I was too sick to be nervous or even halfway care where I ended up. Shot a PB on Sat. in the 2nd round and only 2 or 3 8's both days. Not competitive but outstanding for me. Just showing up and getting all 120 arrows downrange (with the bow) was my goal and I met it.
> 
> ...


I know I have, and know of several people that have shot above their normal average when sick...there's a mental lesson in there I'm sure. 


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## lees (Feb 10, 2017)

Bobmuley said:


> I know I have, and know of several people that have shot above their normal average when sick...there's a mental lesson in there I'm sure.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I think I was just too ill to pay attention to what was going on around me. All my senses, especially hearing, were dulled and the fever just kept me from being that aware of my surroundings. I think it helped me stay in my shot and not worry about the score, and OMG Mel Nichols is in the audience and etc. I just shot my shot one arrow at a time.

Since, I haven't been able to shoot as good, though that's partly just life interfering with practice....

lee.


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## lcaillo (Jan 5, 2014)

Well, I would not consider myself competitive, just better than average, but I have worked with elite athletes in multiple sports and they all describe having to find the thing that for themselves is their greatest limiting factor and work through it. Some have called it doing the hard thing, which is different for everyone. It might be learning how to deal with pressure or it might be something to do with technique. It might be training or dedication to a system. Whatever, it takes getting to know oneself and doing whatever it takes to reach your goal, especially the things that are hard. If it was easy all of us would be elites.

I know for me, it is being able to dedicate the time to train and keeping my head out of certain orifices. Only occasionally have I been able to put the two together for any length of time...


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## Jguy3348 (Feb 20, 2016)

I am 67 and have done other things at a national level. I shot my first bow one and a half years ago. My strategy is to play up in class !!! Since my shooting days are numbered, I got good enough to not embarrass myself made off to national events. Did Vegas, Midwest Open, just returned from Kentucky ASA.. I didn't want to spend my best&#55357;&#56876; Shooting days at local events not experiencing the national scene. Now I'm not competitive, but there is something to say about nerves and being around the best shooters at the big events. I will do local events until the 3rd leg IBO then off to WATCH the OPA. To accelerate my progress is my goal, why not train at the national level? It is sort of a take off from from basketball, playing against opponents that are better than you to get better..


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## cbrunson (Oct 25, 2010)

Bobmuley said:


> No matter what level we are, we're always capable of beating ourselves.
> 
> We need to understand those triggers of doubt, our potentials, and realities within.
> 
> ...


That all seems correct, but I'm not sure what it has to do with the ego thing you were talking about.

There are always circumstances that give the win to someone that may have not been the most deserving, like the NASCAR driver leading going into the final lap getting bumped into a spin out, or the "lucky dog" winning in Vegas. But the ones that make it to the shoot off every year stand out whether they win the shoot or not. 

Everyone there has lost it more than they have won it, so sure you have to be able to accept defeat and come back strong. That's just competition basics. I believe that is why everyone congratulates the winner instead of getting angry with him. They know that when the timing was right, he got it done and they didn't. It takes a lot of good shots to win, but it only takes one less than perfect shot to lose.


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## Bobmuley (Jan 14, 2004)

cbrunson said:


> That all seems correct, but I'm not sure what it has to do with the ego thing you were talking about.


Not "ego" as in big head, but "ego" as conscious of self and the good and bad that goes with it.


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## DickAndy (Mar 18, 2015)

I'm still trying to figure my strategy out honestly. I am consistently finishing in the top 10 this year in my class at IBO events. Considering this is my first full year shooting at a national level I think I'm doing well but that's not good enough for me. I keep shooting myself out of podium finishes from making stupid mistakes on my last 10-15 targets. I'm not sure if it's just a pressure thing or I get in my own head knowing if I finish strong I get to stand on the podium. It blows my mind, but I have started practicing more and with all that said I did just take first place at the Ohio IBO state shoot. So I thinking I'm making some progress. Guess we will see what happens at 3rd leg. Thanks for the good info buddy!


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