# Bow Staining



## CFGuy (Sep 14, 2012)

Hi all,

So I received my spiffy new Omega bow a few days ago and can't wait to take it out (haven't shot it yet or even handled it much for not wanting hand oils to get into the wood but it looks fantastic so far, great job Kegan)!

Some questions about the finishing, shaping, etc - I haven't done woodworking in a long time, not to mention artistic woodworking. I'm torn between an ebony or Jacobean/Dark Walnut finish similar to on here, particularly the two-piece walnut stain http://omegalongbows.webs.com/gallery.htm.

What I'm wondering is, will the laminations stain the same color as the rest of the riser, or will it look different? Also, would applying a Satin polyurethane change the color of the wood at all?

Another thing - when staining the wood, are there any special considerations, i.e. wipe the excess stain off quickly, don't let it bleed onto other parts of the bow, etc.?

Same idea with riser shaping - any thoughts on what to be careful of, i.e. sandpaper too coarse, overall shape, etc.? I know this is a shot in the dark but I'm paranoid of screwing this up.


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## guyver (Jan 3, 2012)

CFGuy said:


> What I'm wondering is, will the laminations stain the same color as the rest of the riser, or will it look different?


More than likely, the stain will look different. You could add additional stain to get it closer. Personally, I would prefer a slight or moderate difference.



CFGuy said:


> Also, would applying a Satin polyurethane change the color of the wood at all?


don't think so, should be clear




CFGuy said:


> Another thing - when staining the wood, are there any special considerations, i.e. wipe the excess stain off quickly, don't let it bleed onto other parts of the bow, etc.?


I would tape off the glass if you're worried about it, or just be careful


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## Thin Man (Feb 18, 2012)

Staining is part science ... part voodoo. The voodoo part is what makes it cool.

Do some research into Birchwood Casey Tru-Oil for the final coverage while you are at it. Later I'll dig up some advice for this if you want.


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## Easykeeper (Jan 2, 2003)

Oil based poly will have a bit of yellow or warmth to it, not necessarily a bad thing. Water based poly is clear.

I second the True-Oil recommendation.


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## CFGuy (Sep 14, 2012)

Thanks guys.

Any opinion on color? I can't for the life of me make a decision. Trying to picture what it would look like in Jacobean or Ebony with the all black limbs, with and without staining the lams.

I looked into the Tru oil and if I'm not mistaken it gives the bow a bit of a glossy look? Not really what I'm after, I quite like the more matte Satin - looks a bit more weathered.


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## Easykeeper (Jan 2, 2003)

If you want satin, it's usually best to apply a glossy finish and cut it back to satin instead of use a satin finish. Gloss is usually much harder than satin, probably work better for a bow finish. One of the traditional semi-gloss gunstock finishes is True-Oil cut with rotten stone. Do a web search on stock finishing and you will find tons of info. You end up with a nice soft glow to the finish.

From your link I like the ebony or red mahogany. Generally the darker colors.


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## CFGuy (Sep 14, 2012)

How would one go about doing that? And does oil based vs water based make a difference in the quality/durability of the finish? Kegan mentioned the Satin being more durable than the gloss he was using (Minwax I believe).

I'm a fan of the dark too - I can't decide between a dark ebony stain or a greyer dark brown stain, i.e. Jacobean or Dark Walnut. The redder woods look nice but I'm going for something a little less "North American". (http://www.minwax.com/wood-products/stains-color-guide/#).

Is Tru-Oil widely available or would it have to be ordered? Also, does one apply it as the final finish or would it go under the polyurethane?


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## Thin Man (Feb 18, 2012)

Tru-Oil is a common gunstock finish. Available anywhere gun cleaning accessories are sold, such as big box stores, etc. A small bottle will complete the job. It's one of the most excellent finishes on earth if you do it properly.

Tru-Oil would be the final finish with a multiple-coat application. You would not use poly over it. You can have it gloss or satin depending upon how you perform the final steps as Easykeeper mentions. Birchwood Casey makes a polishing compound (similar to the rottenstone Easy mentions) that I have used, but next time out I'm gonna try the rottenstone method for kicks. 

I usually use Minwax oil stains, then Tru-Oil to the finish. If you prep the wood right, you will be amazed. 

However, there are many other methods of finishing a bow, and perhaps others here will discuss those. Ebony will certainly be black to the eye. The Jacobean or Walnut will be interesting variations of a dark blackish-brownish mix. Unless you want black, those others may be more "warm" as a dark finish.


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## CFGuy (Sep 14, 2012)

Would you likely be able to see the wood grain through the ebony finish? There are pics on Kegan's website but the laminated stripe throws me off and I can't tell what it would look like totally finished (though the stripe does look good).

"...most excellent finishes on earth" - what makes you say so? I haven't done much woodworking in this sort of manner before (staining, sanding, etc), mostly been construction-based woodworking (not sure if you'd call it woodworking). I'm not sure I'm looking for a "warm" finish, hence the greyer wood stain or the ebony.

What are the steps like with Tru-Oil? Again, having relatively little experience, I want to be sure I don't mess up the finish and at least do it evenly. I'd rather a plainer looking finish that's properly applied than something exotic that I don't do quite right.


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## Thin Man (Feb 18, 2012)

First, an apology for stating a falsehood. I do understand that you can use a urethane over Tru-Oil. I opted not to, but it is doable.

Second, a link to a method to do this that I followed with success. http://leatherwall.bowsite.com/TF/l...threadid=214164&messages=3&CATEGORY=9#2813953

It's the long post in the middle of the thread. A concise tutorial to explain how it is done by a guy who does it a lot. 

Stain: You will see the wood grain with any stain, for stain hits the dense/less-dense wood with differing degrees of absorption. Even with Ebony there will be great detail in the wood ... the opposite of paint, which covers the wood completely. Stain retains the "wood grain" look and merely gives the wood a different color than before. Staining is a simple 15 minute process of wipe on, let sit, wipe off. If a deeper look desired, repeat the next day. Staining is the least of your trouble. 

I like Tru-Oil because it:

...smells good (important to me!)
...is wipe-on via paper towel, cloth, or finger with very thin, multiple layers
...self-levels without pooling (again, thin layers)
...can be manipulated in the end-game from gloss to dull as per one's taste
...looks and feels elegantly expensive

Many folks swear by poly, and I use that on my arrows. So maybe I just like Tru-Oil on the big woods because it's something different to have fun with. (Millions of elegant gunstocks can't be all wrong!) Plus, if you bozo it a bit, you simply sand it back down and start over.

Just another option out of many. Just read up on all the various methods and I'll bet one will tweak your tastes fairly quickly. 

Good luck.


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## woodpecker1 (Sep 6, 2012)

home depot sell the water based stain they mx your choice of color i just did some sky blue curly maple for an upcoming build . ive used trans black and orange it takes finish nice.


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## UrbanDeerSlayer (Feb 10, 2012)

Stained mine with MinWax Golden Oak, just rubbed on and wiped it off after a little while. Coated it a couple times. Didn't tape the glass, it didn't effect it at all. Then the next day I sprayed it with several coats of Minwax Satin Polyurethane. Nothing special. Turned out nice. If you are going to hunt with it I wouldn't use a semi or hi-gloss because the sunlight will reflect off the bow. Here's a pic:


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## CFGuy (Sep 14, 2012)

Thin Man: No worries at all, thanks for the clarification and the link - does it really take weeks for the bow to dry? Not sure I want to wait that long before shooting, and I honestly don't have that opportunity as I'll be borrowing my parents' garage for finishing the bow.
Can you use tru-oil on fiberglass? Even if I do end up finishing with that I was thinking I'd probably get a coat of poly overtop to cover the fiberglass limbs and all, it's extremely wet and humid here and I don't want to risk any moisture getting in the bow, especially since I'll likely end up taking it shooting in the rain.
Good to know the staining part is easy! Do you have any pictures to compare what an oiled bow vs a poly'd bow would look like?

woodpecker - I was referring to the polyeurathane - I don't want the yellowy look on the lamination.

Urban: Thanks for the pic! Looks great. So you applied the stain on the lams as well and it didn't change the color?


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## Thin Man (Feb 18, 2012)

Dry time ... yes and no. I understand that Tru-Oil is one of those finishes that can cure for many moons. However, you can put it into use within a normal dry cycle (about 24 hours) and it will be fine. One of my bows was Tru-Oiled by the bower, glass and all, so I reckon that is fine ... I've only done risers with it, though. 

The whole process for the bow using Tru-Oil would take a week minimum. If you are in more of a hurry, then I'd check out some of the other methods for finishing your bow that have quicker dry-times and less layering. Tru-Oil is easy, but it's best to work it in 24 hour cycles per layer, and, depending upon the layers, the days can add up when you want to get shooting right away, especially if it's your only bow. Tru-Oil is kind of a labor of love moving at a slow pace.

The other methods are already comin' attcha on this thread from them that's done 'um. 

Later.


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## CFGuy (Sep 14, 2012)

Thin Man - Thanks. I'll have to consider it, pictures to compare would be helpful. I'd like to do this artistically but also simply, being my first bow and my first time doing much artistic woodworking.

Here is the color for comparison by the way - which would you guys think would look better with flat black fiberglass limbs, and why? Jacobean vs Ebony. http://7thhouseontheleft.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/floorstains11.jpg


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## Easykeeper (Jan 2, 2003)

True-Oil is a great finish, but it's really tough to beat poly when it comes to ease of application. Fewer coats required and it's very durable. Apply a coat, wet sand, next coat, wet sand...repeat until you have what you want.

I think the Jacobean looks nice.


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## UrbanDeerSlayer (Feb 10, 2012)

CFGuy said:


> Urban: Thanks for the pic! Looks great. So you applied the stain on the lams as well and it didn't change the color?


First, I sanded the bow down with successive grits of sanpaper finishing with a 220 grit. I sanded the grip more to fit my hand better. I wiped it down with alcohol. Then I applied the stain to the riser and lambs, wiped it off, then did it again later to get a deeper look to the stain. After about 24 hours took it out to the garage and sprayed a few coats of polyurethane on it, glass, limbs, and riser all get coated with the poly. Turned out decent. I wanted it to look nice, but so nice that I would be afraid to take it out in the woods. Even polyurethane will tint any wood a little, so the shade of the lambs may change, but you want to coat it to protect it. 

It's a shooter so get 'er done and blast away!!


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## CFGuy (Sep 14, 2012)

Do you have to sand in between coats of poly? What is meant by "wet sand"?

Thanks for all the help guys! Yeah I don't want to spend a ton of time on this but I want to make sure I do it right and don't regret it.


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## UrbanDeerSlayer (Feb 10, 2012)

If you want a smoother, glossier finish you can sand between coats with a 300 grit. Wet sanding is sanding with the black sandpaper with a little water to smooth out the sanding marks. I didn't do that. The question is do you wanna shoot it or hang it on the wall? The way I did mine turned out nice, didn't spend alot of time or money, and it was ready to hit the woods.


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## CFGuy (Sep 14, 2012)

Both  This is all part of it for me. Not looking to compete in the Olympics, and not looking to keep things hung on a wall (though it will be hung when not in use), but it's the blend of art and shooting that's the main reason I got into this. Though my definition of "attractive" may be different than many - I don't want a glossy finish, and I don't want a particularly warm looking bow. Looking for something more aged/rustic looking.


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## woodpecker1 (Sep 6, 2012)

i just used the preval spray unit from home depot today.wow! it really sprays a finish like an air gun.no orange peel at all .its worth 5 bucks for sure .


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## Long Rifle (Dec 8, 2011)

I masked off the maple on my Omega to keep that nice contrast. Then I mixed a just a little mahogany in with red mahogany in MinWax. After quite a few test mixes I got a shade between the two just a little darker than the red that turned out nice, kinda rich. Then I removed the tape, made sure the maple was clean, and sprayed the entire bow with two light coats of MinWax Satin spray poly to seal. Well satisfied with MinWax products.


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## reddogge (Jul 21, 2009)

For gunstock work I've always preferred aniline dyes. They give a richer, deeper color and you can thin them out so you apply in very thin coats to achieve the richness of color you want. After applying you can wipe with alcohol (if alcohol based) to lighten back up. Very flexible. You need to "whisker" the wood before applying though. Do a search on aniline dyes and you'll get a ton on information.


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## CFGuy (Sep 14, 2012)

Long Rifle: Good to know! I may do the same thing.

reddogge: Thanks for the info, already started though!

So I sanded and applied my first coat today (ebony). Slightly disappointed to be honest - I stained the hickory limbs as well as the riser which I like, but some of the areas on the riser didn't exactly come out the same as the rest, even though I sanded with 100 and finished with 220. Might have to do a bit of sanding tomorrow to get the color more similar.

Slightly disappointed in ebony too actually, looks a little bleak. Would it work to put some jacobean or something similar on top to give it a slight brown tinge?

woodpecker: Thanks for the tip, I'll probably do the same.


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## CFGuy (Sep 14, 2012)

Looking at different stains - I'm not sure I want to go with oil, due to my lack of experience with wood finishing and lack of help available here.
Isn't the Minwax Polyurethane supposed to be used on indoor woods? It's quite wet here and I really want to make sure this is well sealed and protected.

Also, how would you go about cutting back a gloss finish to satin? I'd like as hard a finish as possible. Is canned satin finish cloudy?


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## Long Rifle (Dec 8, 2011)

CFGuy, MinWax has a satin poly in a spray can. The finished product is not cloudy at all, just not as shiny as a gloss finish. It may look a little cloudy when it's first applied but when it dries it clears up perfectly. I used a couple of light coats, waited an hour or so in between coats. Great protection, I have no problem with wet weather hunting.


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## Long Rifle (Dec 8, 2011)

CFGuy, MinWax has a satin in a spray can as well as a gloss. It may appear cloudy when applied but clears up well, just not as shiny as the gloss. I sprayed two light coats, waiting an hour between coats and I get great wet weather protection.


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## CFGuy (Sep 14, 2012)

It says on the can (the only one I can find) that it's supposed to be for indoor use, and the Minwax site stated it's not for outdoor use? Will this work adequately? What about waxing the bow afterwards?


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## UrbanDeerSlayer (Feb 10, 2012)

Minwax'ed polyurethaned mine (with the indoor stuff), and its gotten wet and wipes right down. Gonna be muddying it all up post Tropical Storm Sandy for some serious dirty hunting. I have no fear of damaging the bow at all. The Omega is built for the woods!


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## CFGuy (Sep 14, 2012)

Oh good to hear.

Problem that I didn't think of before - it's under 10 degrees here and I don't have a heated garage to spray in, so would I likely have to use a wipe on? Will Minwax outdoor spar urethane provide a clear gloss finish I can adequately sand down *without* becoming cloudy?


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## Long Rifle (Dec 8, 2011)

Another fly in the ointment! Just tung oil it by hand in the livingroom during a ballgame, go shooting, and don't worry about it. I didn't put a final stain/seal on mine for almost a month, I wanted to shoot it long enough to make a final determination as to what if any modification in the grip that I might do.


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## Easykeeper (Jan 2, 2003)

CFGuy said:


> Oh good to hear.
> 
> Problem that I didn't think of before - *it's under 10 degrees here *and I don't have a heated garage to spray in, so would I likely have to use a wipe on? Will Minwax outdoor spar urethane provide a clear gloss finish I can adequately sand down *without* becoming cloudy?


Most finishing products I've used recommend at least 50[SUP]o[/SUP]F (10[SUP]o[/SUP]C) for proper drying. You will have to bring it in the house...or wait for warmer weather unless you find a finish that works in low temperatures.


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## CFGuy (Sep 14, 2012)

Would you be able to apply it outside and bring it inside to dry? I have no issues with the wipe on or brush on, simply the spray. I'll see if I can find some Tru Oil, if not I'll opt for a urethane.

Long Rifle: Where do you live? The weather we have now, I walk outside and my glasses mist up within minutes. Extremely humid and wet, not the hard-rain kind either so I'm hesitant about doing that. I don't actually mind taking a while to finish it properly, I have plenty of time to shoot and a few extra days won't make a difference (though I wasn't keen on waiting a month like one instruction recommended but didn't require).


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## reddogge (Jul 21, 2009)

I don't like spray products. There are contaminents in the aerosol and I've had poor luck getting a finish without overspray or runs. That's why I use Tru-Oil and apply with a foam brush and it can be done hung up in a warm basement. It will dry in less than 24 hours. I wet sand between coats with 1,200 wet/dry paper from the auto parts store between coats to even out the coat. The sanding doesn't reach the bow, only the last finish coat. And yes, it will look a little hazy after wet sanding. The final coat is Tru-Oil applied with 0000 steel wool and rubbed down to kill the gloss. NO STEEL WOOL FIBERS WILL STICK IN THE BOW BECAUSE IT ONLY GOES AS DEEP AS THE LAST FINSIH COAT!!!

Here's a Tru-Oil finish without the gloss killing step.


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## CFGuy (Sep 14, 2012)

It _will_ look hazy after wet sanding? Does it end up looking clear afterward or is the final product cloudy? That looks awfully nice.


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## reddogge (Jul 21, 2009)

It looks clear like the above bow. The haze is micrscopic little scratches in the last finish coat that fills in with the next finish coat. The wet sanding process just smooths and evens out the last coat.


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## CFGuy (Sep 14, 2012)

Ah I see - so no final cloudiness? The picture looks great but it's somewhat small so difficult to see close up.

Update!

So I went out and bought everything, just in case (I can return it later but I didn't have many more chances to go into town this week). I have:
-"Circa 1850" Antique Danish Oil which is listed as an oil-varnish
-Minwax Helmsman Spar Urethane in a non-spray can (which I was told is actually a polyurethane and not a traditional spar varnish), both in clear gloss and satin
-Birchwood Casey Tru-Oil in an aerosol spray can (apparently this is no longer available for import to Canada based on some rather silly things like the labels not being both French and English)
-800 grit sandpaper (not really sandpaper, more of an abrasive paper) and 1500 grit sandpaper

Some questions (who could've guessed !)
-Would you guys recommend using the Tru-Oil spray, or are the contaminants going to affect the finish significantly (if there are any at all)? Would spraying onto a rag and wiping onto the bow work fine?
-Would there be any point to putting on a coat of Poly over top, or would this get redundant? I don't want to have to re-apply the finish often at all. Re-finishing the bow down the road if it gets rather worn I have no issue with. I'm not sure if the spray tru-oil is the same thing you guys were referring to?

If the Danish oil route is a better way to go:
-Would it be the same process as with the tru-oil, i.e. apply, wet-sand, apply, wet-sand, apply final coat, brush down to satin? Or would I be better off adding some poly to it after?


Thanks for all the time and patience guys.


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## Nokhead (Jun 10, 2012)

I've finished a couple of my flintlocks myself, and other rifles. I found that tru-oil gave too much of a modern, glossy look. It's been suggested that you can steel wool a tru oil finish to get a dull or satin sheen, but that just seems to un-seal the wood, take it off unless it's really thick....which does not look good even if it's not glossy...

I have found that if you mix tru-oil with a real-oil, olive, walnut, mineral, grapeseed, any or all of the above, or others not mentioned, whatever, and throw in some stain, it will make for a nice durable finish that's not glossy. I mix/cut tru-oil to other oils about 25% tru, 75% oil, but you can experiment with other ratio's. 50-50 might work good.

I always apply this with fingers and hands. Rub it in until you make the wood warm! Don't be afraid to get your hands greasy and goopy! I would never wet sand in between coats. I'd never let water touch the bow. Maybe lightly steel wool while the oil/Tru-oil mix is wet with the oil, or even apply it with a very fine steel wool, for the first few coats. Then fingers only.

With a 25-75 mix, it usually takes multiple applications, but you could shoot the bow between applications. Don't know that you need to spray the bow with any kind of poly this or that, a tru-oil/oil/stain mix should seal up the wood well. But again, multiple applications over a few months time, but again-again that won't stop you from shooting the bow. I'm not afraid to take a rifle out hunting after one or two applications...but really it might take a dozen or so to get it where you want it. When you think it is done, then wax it on a regular basis with any good wax, furniture wax, whatever.

Having a sailboat, I can tell you that any kind of spar varnish is VERY glossy. 

Having said that, I've never done this on a bow, but I have a couple of very nice flintlocks that it has worked very well on, where a glossy, or thick finish just wouldn't look right. I would never think of spraying them with any kind of poly-urey, or any other type of over-coat. Just wax the bow down once in a while.

Hope that helps.


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## CFGuy (Sep 14, 2012)

Are you supposed to sand the fiberglass _before_ applying the finish? I've read this on a number of websites but I tried it on a section of fiberglass and it looks like it just scratches the hell out of it.


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## reddogge (Jul 21, 2009)

No, don't sand before, only wet sand inbetween coats with very fine WET/DRY sandpaper like 1,200 grit. Put a couple of coats on first before wet sanding. You are only leveling the finish out which is only 4 microns thick. You don't want to get down to the fiberglass or wood.


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## CFGuy (Sep 14, 2012)

Kegan mentioned he sands before applying the finish so it will stick to the fiberglass? Is this not necessary?


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## Easykeeper (Jan 2, 2003)

Kegan is right, you need to break the gloss on the fiber glass to insure good adhesion. Same reason you sand fiber glass before you glue it.


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## CFGuy (Sep 14, 2012)

Ah I see, good to know! Thanks, I can actually finish the darn thing now.


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## CFGuy (Sep 14, 2012)

Update:

Finishing this bow has been a great learning experience, as well as a nightmare. First coat of stain went on well, except a "shiny spot" I didn't think enough of to completely sand down. Turns out it was a bit of epoxy, so sand down, re-stain, leave for 48h. Stain still comes off. Sand down more, get stain right, leave for another 48h. Stain _still_ comes off. Wipe off stain, re-apply, leave in room with heater blowing for 48h. Stain still slightly tacky, but appears to have soaked in, so I wipe off excess and get to finishing (I hope I didn't screw myself over here too).

So I decided to try a few coats of Tru Oil with some poly overtop at the end. Only Tru-Oil I could find was the spray can (import problems apparently with our silly French/English bilingual labeling laws - there are far more people speaking Mandarin and Punjabi on the west coast than French), so I sprayed some on a foam brush (which apparently had plenty of small hair fibers stuck in it), and applied. Fairly straight forward, but the string I was hanging it on didn't hold well so I had to figure something else out in a hurry, as well as the fact that the stupid spray can stopped working. I removed the nozzle, put in hot water and it sprayed enough to finish the coat, but I'm not sure I want to repeat this procedure 4 times, having to submerge the dang thing in hot water every 10 seconds (literally how long it takes to gum up).
Is there an easier way to make the spray work, or should I just use Circa 1850 brand Danish oil overtop now? From what I've read it seems to have a similar ingredient list to Tru Oil. It's also _not_ in a spray can, which I'm liking about now.


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## CFGuy (Sep 14, 2012)

Also, when using Tru Oil, do you have to wipe off excess after 10-15 mins or no? I didn't do this and didn't see instructions for this in any guides I read, they just mentioned applying a light coat, letting dry, and then wet sanding or using steel wool. Is it any different for Danish Oil?


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## Nokhead (Jun 10, 2012)

Just a question, why would fiberglass have to have any kind of seal on it? Why not just wax it with some minwax? Just wondering, as far as I know fiberglass does not absorb water. ???


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## Easykeeper (Jan 2, 2003)

Why are you thinking of putting some other finish over the top of True Oil? Don't see the point and have never read of that approach. With True-Oil, apply a thin coat, _allow to dry untouched_, wet sand and repeat for several coats. I've never used the spray can so can't really comment on it. I will say that it would be easy to get too thick a coat by spraying so be careful. A small rag or fingers is all I ever used. 

Stain is usually applied and allowed to soak in for a _few minutes_, then the excess wiped off. If it's not dark enough, add another coat or go to a darker stain.


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## CFGuy (Sep 14, 2012)

I've read a few people doing that as an addition, such as in the instructions Thin Man posted. Would only do a coat or two for moisture protection, and maybe a satin coat on top to kill the sheen. I'll see how it goes with the oil, but keep in mind I haven't done this before, and really don't want to risk it with the extreme humidity up here.
I'll just leave the Tru Oil to dry then - is it normal for it to be tacky for a few hours, or even a day? I just sprayed it onto a brush, didn't spray the actual bow.

Ah I see - is it an issue if you leave stain on longer? I lightly wiped off the excess but it still left slight tackyness, so I wiped it off before leaving it to dry. Slightly tacky this morning, so rubbed a bit with a paper towel and it mostly came off. Will the stain on that portion potentially peel, or is it not an issue? Again, real humid up here so things dry slow.


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## Easykeeper (Jan 2, 2003)

Good to know on the over coat for True Oil, if it works it works. I always left at least 24 hours between coats and sometime more, it can't be too dry. It is usually not very humid here so if it is where you are I'd give it plenty of drying time.

I wouldn't worry about the stain, sounds like you did it right. I misread your post and thought you left it all on for an extended time. I usually apply a heavy but even coat, and keep applying it to areas that soak up the stain until the item is uniformly "wet". Let stand for a few minutes and wipe off as much as possible, even giving it a good buff to make sure all the stain that didn't penetrate is removed. Once again, I always let it dry for at least a day. Sounds like you definitely have humidity issues.


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## CFGuy (Sep 14, 2012)

Can stain gradually penetrate? It seemed to soak in more once I had a heater in there. Yeah I tried too days ago but the stuff wiped off - slight black particles coming off today but I wiped it pretty hard with paper towel and nothing significant came off. Humidity issues indeed! For the past 2 weeks it's been "misting" - not really raining, but that kind of rain where you go outside and are totally damp in a few minutes. Like living in a cloud for 7 months of the year. Summer is sunny, but still around 70-80% consistently .
Good to know on the dry times! I'll try to keep it nice and toasty in there. 

-Any ideas on what to do with the stupid spray can? I'll try the hot water thing again for the next coat, but if this keeps happening I'll have to see if I can find it elsewhere. If I can't find any more, would Danish, Teak or Tung oil work overtop?

-To make sure I have this right - wet sand with high grit before the next application (i.e. 800), then re-apply, repeat process, wet sanding with higher grit (1500)?

-Random question - I read that linseed oil can make a bow lose poundage due to its keeping the wood flexible. Is this true? Would Tru-Oil or similar be a bad idea then?


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## Nokhead (Jun 10, 2012)

You are still scaring me with all this wet-sanding, hot water and all that stuff. Why touch the bow with water?? Why wet sand? If you rub the tru-oil in with steel wool, it should not need to be sanded. Rubbing water into the bow to make it water proof...??

Again....is fiberglass water permeable? I think not. Just finish the wood, then wax the whole shebang.

I don't think you'll ever get anything but a very glossy, or very dull, lifeless finish with pure tru-oil. Multiple coats and all the wet sanding in the world won't do anything for it, other than make it look thick and dull. Pure Tru-oil is kind of a one-coat and be done gunstock finish for people who don't want to take the time and effort to really get a true hand rubbed oil finish.

Can you bring it in the house and work on it? Use a lot of newspapers. (the French ones) Or is that not allowed in the Great White North? (no offense...I'm first generation American, from a long line of British Canadians, from North Hamptonshire England)

Linseed oil is water permeable...I don't think you want to use that. It does not work well on nice flintlock stocks, don't ask me how I know that. Tung oil would be better. 

Spray can: spray it on a rag, use rag to rub in. Keep can in house. Spray onto rag. Take to bow. Rub into wood with rag. Better yet take bow in house.

Once the tru-oil "sets", I'm not sure that any kind of oil will penetrate it. With my own tru-oil/oil mixes, it really takes a long time to "set". Once it does, it's really worth all the weeks, or months, of rubbing it in. But you can shoot and use the bow, and keep rubbing in coats in the mean time. No wet sanding or other nonsense in between. Water bad. Oil good. Sand paper bad. Fine steel wool good.

Or am I totally missing the point? Are you going for a glossy, high shine finish?? If not, hand-rub in your multiple coats of a Tru-oil/oil-oil mix, with lots of stain mixed in the mix, when you get what you want, let it set up, (but use it/shoot it) then start putting some multiple coats of wax on it.

????


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## CFGuy (Sep 14, 2012)

Nokhead: Not sure about the wet sanding, have just seen this on numerous instructional videos. If not wet sanding, then some sort of steel wool or fine grain sanding?

I'm honestly not sure as to the properties of fiberglass. Again, just going off of what more experienced finishers have told me, and it makes sense for me logically to coat the entire bow with at least the final finish, as this eliminates any chance of moisture getting into the bow through areas I may have missed while trying to finish the wood and avoid the fiberglass. I guess the question is, why not?

Honestly, you're the first person I've read who has said anything like this. No other set of instructions has mentioned a need for mixing with different oil. I've also never read it being a "one-coat and be done" finish - literally all the other instructions I've read have called for at the very least a week's worth of finishing, the least amount of coats being 3-4 "if done properly". Not that I'm closed to your ideas or anything, I just haven't read anything like what you've mentioned. Any way you could post some of the pictures of yours?
Continuing Tru Oil *might not be an option*, however, due to spray can issues and complete lack of availability. Would applying some sort of other oil overtop be worth while, such as a Danish Oil or something similar? Or would I have to continue with Tru Oil? Would light sanding work?

I'd love a hand-rubbed finish, just not sure what else to do. Have read plenty about "Tung Oils" not being tung oil at all. Isn't Tru Oil linseed oil?

Believe it or not it's actually in the house, in the basement suite. Heater running now, but it's wet enough that things don't dry that well - my dad painted a doorframe down there that took way longer to dry than it should (again though, heater should make a difference).

What's wrong with fine sandpaper as opposed to steel wool? Doesn't steel wool leave shards in the finish anyways?


Not going for high gloss at all, was going for the satin look, hence the idea of steel wool rub down and finishing with a coat of satin urethane to kill the sheen. Why stain in the mix? What if the bow is already stained?
Planning on some wax in the end too.


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## Jolinedaniel (Nov 3, 2012)

How'd the ebony stain come out? We're you able to get it more even?


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## CFGuy (Sep 14, 2012)

Not too bad actually. Was a bit tricky to get it into the spot I wanted (had to re-apply a few times) and the wood grain looks slightly different there, but it blended in well enough. Overall pretty happy with the color turn out. Looks a bit more like a darker, greyer Jacobean but the in-between is more or less what I was looking for.


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## Jolinedaniel (Nov 3, 2012)

Great good to hear, ill be basically doing this same thing to my samick sage next week


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## CFGuy (Sep 14, 2012)

One piece of advice - make sure you know detailed instructions for every step, or it gets confusing and you have to keep coming back to the computer to figure out what to do


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## CFGuy (Sep 14, 2012)

So questions I have now:

-Does linseed oil weaken/lower poundage on a bow
-Can you use Danish Oil over top of Tru Oil (isn't Tru Oil a type of Danish Oil? I.e. linseed, thinner, varnish, and an oil blend mix)?
-If you miss small spots (i.e. 1/4 in diameter) with the initial coat of Tru Oil, should you sand down the whole bow and re-start, or can you just make sure to apply over that spot on the next coat? I honestly don't see why this would make a major difference.


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## Nokhead (Jun 10, 2012)

Well let me say again that I've never finished a bow....so...I'm certainly not speaking as any kind of expert.

No, I've never seen my system anywhere either....I "invented" it myself when I found that pure oil finishes just didn't hold up when hunting in nasty weather, (ESPECIALLY linseed) and that tru-oil just did not produce, for me, a good looking finish, whether one left if as is, or tried to post-steel wool it, or tried using multiple coats. But it sounds like it does work well for some people, or they are more easy to satisfy than I am. I'm talking two very nice flintlocks, that really need to, have to (for me) look "right", but on the other hand I hunt hard with them in all types of weather...so the finish has to be very durable.

If you rub your finish in with steel wool, no it won't leave anything...you wipe it off when you are done, then rub a little more on/in with your fingers and let it set up, then repeat the process. It does not set up fast like pure tru-oil...it wont trap bits of steel wool. Again, after working it in with steel wool, you wipe it off, THEN rub some more in with your fingers.

With my method, you won't EVER get "small spots".

With the Nockhead method, you don't need any detailed instructions. Just make your mix, rub it in, wipe it off. Use the bow all you want and just do it again every other day, or once a week until you get the results you want. There's really no steps...rub it in, wipe it off!

I was being sarcastic about the fiber glass...they make BOATS out of the darn stuff!  You don't have to "seal" it with an over coat, nor do you have to seal the wood that is already sealed with Tru-oil, other oil, and stain-sealer. Just wax the darn thing with a good paste wax, fiber glass and all...then wax it again on a regular basis.

Just say NO to spray anything!

Anyhow, that's just my opinion, and I think you'll get good results whatever you do. But, I shall speak no more forever, on this subject. !!!!!


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## Jolinedaniel (Nov 3, 2012)

After reading alot, they say only mineral oils can weaken the wood fibers, so you should be fine. Lets see some pics!


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## CFGuy (Sep 14, 2012)

Thanks for your input Nok . Do you charge royalties for this "method" ?

I don't disagree with your method, it's just that I've already started with the pure Tru Oil method (by the way I think it's classified as a name brand Danish Oil, for anyone who is wondering). I'll consider adding a bit of after I do some light sanding on the first coat, if it will set (does anyone know if this would work?).
I understand everyone has their tried and true method, and I'm sure yours works great, but there are also many master bowyers who use pure Tru Oil/Danish Oil, so I'm fairly confident this will do fine in the bush, especially with a protective coating of some sort (i.e. poly, wax, etc.). As far as not getting small spots "ever", I sincerely doubt that  the only reason I had a spot is because the oil stopped spraying.

Haha I figured, but still, why not do it? I still don't understand why you'd put stain in the Tru Oil, as I don't think you'd necessarily get the combination of color and protection you'd be looking for.

And about the spray - I wouldn't spray directly onto the bow, but what's the harm in spraying onto a paper towel?

Jolinedainel: Thanks, good to know! Pics to come when it's all ready.


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