# Howard Hill Wesley Special



## SlowBowInMO (Dec 4, 2003)

Any wood can fail. Bamboo isn't even really wood though, it's super grass. Anyway, I've not heard of bamboo being any more susceptible to failure than anything else, and Howard Hill archery only builds their super heavy bows in bamboo. That speaks pretty highly of it too I would think. My understanding is bamboo was Howard's favorite as well.:thumbs_up


----------



## cutty (Jan 5, 2006)

A couple questions come to mind...

Have you ever shot a Howard Hill longbow, or a Howard Hill Longbow before?

If not, you should really test shoot one before you buy. 

If you like HH bows, you tend to LOVE them, and I'm one of the guys who is passionate about them and the style.

But they aren't for everyone, and in my opinion do require you to master a different style of shooting than a heavy/long risered, R/D, more centercut longbow.

On the 'boo issue, however, I think most of us who like the style of bow prefer 'boo limbs to all others. Though there are a few who have a thing for Yew.

'Boo is amazing stuff. A grass, not a wood, and much more similar to a composite material than wood, with it's strong, light, fibers.

So...if you are in the market for a HH bow, and do like the style, the Wesley Special is hard to beat.


----------



## cutty (Jan 5, 2006)

Oh, a couple quick notes...I see more guys who have negative experiences with HH bows make these mistakes.

The first is getting a shorter Hill. Don't go shorter than "68 inches if you have a "28 draw or over. They're light mass bows and much handier in the field than the length would have you believe, and you'll lose many of their best qualities if you go too short for your draw.

If you really have to go shorter, get a reverse handle, or a bow with more R/D.

The next is draw weight...you don't need to shoot #90 because that's what Howard shot...end of story.

Finally, never run your Hill Bow through the chrono...it's an unwritten HH shooter faux paus...:smile:


----------



## AKRuss (Jan 10, 2003)

I have to agree with cutty, HH longbow shooters tend to be fanatics, right there with Fred Bear recurve people. I'm not sure how I was captured by both groups, LOL. I have a 28" draw and prefer 68" HH bows too. I had my Wesley made with the center three lams of bamboo and the outer 2 lams of edge-cut Bocote with handle and tip overlays of Ebony. I also opted for the dish cut grip and asked that the dish and center shot be cut as close to center as they dared. What a beauty and what a shooter.


----------



## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

A friend of mine is one of those HH fanatics. HH actually do make R/D longbows they just don't feature them prominently.

My biggest issue with the HH bows is not the lower performance of a straight flatbow vs R/D LB's but just the shape of the riser which I find uncomfortable to hold.

I'd have to 3'd Cutty on the 68" bow and keep the draw weight reasonable--and always pay attention to the "Not For Use With Chronographs" warning sticker


----------



## LBR (Jan 1, 2004)

As far as bamboo goes, some bowyers love it, some won't use it. Reckon it depends on your experiences, the bow design, what kind of bamboo you use, and probably knowing just how to use it. I'm partial to yew myself--similar to bamboo (light, flexible, fast recovery) but no nodes to deal with.

I have to agree that Hill and Hill style bows seem to primarily pretty much into two categories--you really like them, or you really don't. I've shot several Hill and Hill style bows, including Bob Wesley's personal Wesley Special and a Hill style that Chek-Mate makes--they just don't turn me on. I'm too stubborn to change my shooting style to fit a bow--I will choose a bow that fits me instead. Those straight, narrow grips don't fit my big paws, and my elbow just won't tolerate much hand shock. I also agree that it's best to stay away from a chrony with most Hill bows, else you'll get your feelings hurt. (I ain't shooting my selfbow through one either)

I love to read the history behind them, have heard nothing but praise for Craig and company, and obviously in the right hands they will do the job as well as anything--just not in my hands.

Chad


----------



## AKRuss (Jan 10, 2003)

HH longbows are available in a few different grip options. I have an older Big Five with the traditional HH grip. I prefer the dished-style grip. They're probably not the fastest longbow but they sure shoot well for me. 

Chad, are you an anti-nodite? 

The handshock thing is just a silly legend. After you shoot a HH longbow for a while, your nerve endings die and suddenly there is no handshock.

Chad is probably correct in that whatever longbow you start with, it's hard to switch. I started with a HH style longbow, actually Strunk longbows, and have never been able to get excited about heavy R/D longbows. It's probably saved me a few bucks here and there, LOL.


----------



## LBR (Jan 1, 2004)

Lol--I'm not even a bowyer (not by any stretch)--don't even play one on t.v. I have owned a few with bamboo--dang nodes are, or at least can be, a weak point. Guess "nodeaphobic" would be a better word for me.

My favorite bowyer has tested it, and can't find any real differences using bamboo vs. yew in his bows, plus the added work and worry with the nodes, so........they don't offer it. He has been threating to tinker with "actionboo" when he gets a chance--dunno just when that will be though.

Chad


----------



## LBR (Jan 1, 2004)

#@[email protected]$%[email protected]# edits..............

Actually I shot everything from straight, to reflex, to radical deflex/reflex with pretty much every different grip available, ranging in weight from the mid 40's to low 80's, before settling on my favorite. She's been my #1 for close to 10 years now . Might find one I like better one of these days, but not likely. 

At one time I REALLY wanted to like Hill bows, just because of the name behind them (all caught up in the nostalgia and such)--just couldn't make it happen. FWIW, I consider the tournament that bears his name to be one of the best.:thumbs_up

Chad


----------



## 42WLA (Jun 13, 2006)

I'm a HH fanatic. I think you won't go wrong with a Wesley Special. but, I would get a Big Five. The extra lam won't make any noticeable difference just some extra money. I do agree with the advice not to go too short. 68" is a great choice.


----------



## AKRuss (Jan 10, 2003)

*My Wesley Special*

A few pics of my Bocote and bamboo Wesley ...


----------



## cutty (Jan 5, 2006)

By the way, I've actually owned one of the HH Badger r/d Hills, and I can say unquivocally now, some 30 bows later, what I suspected then...

...go with the Wesley Special Or the Big 5 over the Badger r/d.


----------



## Alek (Jan 11, 2007)

I have a Wesley and really enjoy shooting it. It is 45#@30 70". It like the one above has the locator grip.


----------



## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

lbl - 

Just curious, are you intersted in the WS because it's the most expensive, so it has to be better???

I have a few Hill bows, and the Tembo still comes to hand best "for me". 

Assuming the same length and grip configuration, the designs of the standard Hill bows are remarkably similar, haven't found increasing the number of lams to make a difference.

Viper1 out.


----------



## Hardhed (Jan 31, 2007)

I recall reading somewhere, but can't remember the exact details, that Howard Hill had a specific philosophy as to the proper length of bow based upon an archer's draw length. Has anyone else read anything similar?

I've also read that HH bows seem to feel somewhat lighter than one would expect from their poundage? I'm sure it's highly subjective though...


----------



## seabound (Apr 12, 2006)

I have read somewhere, which I cannot recall now, that bamboo was the most susceptible material to either breakage or weakening over time. Although on the other side of the coin many believe it's one of the greatest materials to make bows out of. Just something to think about if you plan on owning it long term.


----------



## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

Hardhed -

When you're dealing with selfbows, there is or was a table of the relationship between draw length and bowlength, as a means of delaying bow failure. With laminated bows, that's not really an issue, but it's up to the skill of the bowyer to design/build a bow that will not stack at the customers' draw length. The perceived "smoothness" isa function of limb length and taper. 

What was true in Hill's heyday (the 1930 and 40's) may not be "as" true today, the man was a great archer for his tme, but we really have to consider that times have changed and what MAY have been gospel 70 years ago, may no longer be the only way. 

Personally, I tend to like my longbows, well long. My Hills are all 70" but have a few old style hybrids that are as short as 68".

Sea - 

I've heard that about bamboo as well, and do to some extent believe it, but I do have a Tembo from 1975 and a Big 5 from 1978 that still shoot quite nicely. Gues ya have to take yer chances with anything.

Viper1 out.


----------



## alanraw (Feb 18, 2005)

Hardhed said:


> I recall reading somewhere, but can't remember the exact details, that Howard Hill had a specific philosophy as to the proper length of bow based upon an archer's draw length. Has anyone else read anything similar?



Well, after watching Byron Ferguson's "Become the Arrow" dvd, and knowing that his philosophy was based on much of what Hill believed and practiced, I think the criteria may have been:

28" draw or greater=66" bow or longer
27" draw=64" 
26" or less=have a bow custom made for you


I don't know. My own philosophy is:

Gorilla arms like mine=62" AMO length _at the barest minimum_


----------



## LBR (Jan 1, 2004)

What is your dl Alan? With a medium/low wrist mine is 30.5" (unless I get excited). High wrist, around 32". If I shot a recurve seriously, I'd go with a bare minimum of 62" (64-66" preferably). My longbow is 66", my selfbow is 72". Sometimes I think my longbow is too short......

Chad


----------



## seabound (Apr 12, 2006)

I completely agree with both of you as far as longbow length goes. I had a 62" longbow for about a year and it was just too short. I now have a 66" one and it feels much better when I draw to ~30.5". If I ever decide to pick up another longbow it will be even longer.


----------



## alanraw (Feb 18, 2005)

LBR said:


> What is your dl Alan? With a medium/low wrist mine is 30.5" (unless I get excited). High wrist, around 32". If I shot a recurve seriously, I'd go with a bare minimum of 62" (64-66" preferably). My longbow is 66", my selfbow is 72". Sometimes I think my longbow is too short......
> 
> Chad


My draw length is around 30"-31" Chad, and as I stated, I won't shoot a recurve under 62". I had a 58" PSE Kudu a few years back...the finger pinch was so bad I traded it and couldn't wait to get it off to its new owner. Now I don't own anything under 62", and I am sure the 64" Chek-Mate I just ordered will be just as good as the 62" Martins I own.

I play around with longbows sometimes, and like Viper1, I like my longbows long---like 68" or so


----------



## AK in PA (Nov 30, 2002)

I'm primarily a selfbow guy, but I have a Big 5 and love it. (Just 4 bamboo lams instead of the Wesley's 5.) It shoots right where my selfbows shoot. Based on chrono testing several bows, it's pound for pound nearly as fast as my favorite selfbows. Mine is 66", 70# @ 28", but my with my 25" draw length, I only bring it around to around 61#.


----------



## 45-70cannon (Feb 10, 2004)

Well since everybody else is talking here, I'll toss in my own two cents worth. I'm one of those yew wood nuts and I don;t see any need for the b'boo at all. I shoot 66" bows with a 27" draw and have no problems and shooting 70#s to boot. I do have an Owl with a b'boo core and yea, its fast, but my Redman 66" is faster. The wife shoots a redman that is 46#s at 26" draw and 66" long and she is deadly with it.
Whatever you buy, your choice, if its Bamboo, do the Tembo. Incidently, myhunting partner has a Tembo that I think Shultz made for Howard back in the day and it was a 75#er at 70 inches and he had it reworked to 68# at 68" and boy does it shoot. The bow is many, many years old and hasn't cracked, creaked or done anything to deserve a lesser bow name.

My next bow will be something with a B'boo core, probably yew would outer lams, two great woods together and beautiful to look at too.


----------



## Albertakid (Jan 12, 2004)

*hh bows*

Well I am a recurve man all the way or atleast I thought that I was I recently picked up a HH Cougar which is a honey locust and 3 bamboo lams with a bubinga riser. This bow is 68" and [email protected] I draw 30 with it and it scales at 55# besides being a beautiful bow it shoots really nice and is the only longbow that I have ever been able to shoot right off the bat... I have only had it a couple of days and was shooting some pretty decent groups out to 30 yards with it this evening.

If your used to shooting a heavy curve it is definatly diffrent ,however I found the bow to be easy to shoot and pretty danged accuate even though I haven't really done any tuning so to speak. As far as hand shock goes if you try to grip the bow like a curve your gonna feel some, but if you grip it like your supposed to there will be little more than a slight vibration that I have felt with many bows. So I guess i am now a recurve guy with a longbow habit!LOL


Jordan


----------



## longbowlover (Aug 14, 2006)

Well actually the cost does have something to do with it but not what some of you my think. I was thinking about the H.H. bow because of the description and the fact that other bowyers charge way more than $500. for their bows. A Black Widow, and many others are in the upper $800 range.....too much for me. I thought the Big Wesley Five might be H.H's better bow although the Tembo sounds nice too. Actually they alll appeal to me. As far as shooting one before I buy I have no idea how to do that when buying through the mail. At the only tradional hunthing convention I've been to you couldn't even touch the H.H bows. They were from a private collection and H.H didn't have any representitives at the show. I still like the straight end long bow over the recurve design anyway. Just my own liking.

longbowlover


----------



## AKRuss (Jan 10, 2003)

It's been a while since I looked into this but I believe the difference from the Tembo, Big Five and Wesley is the addition of one wood lamination from one model to the next. It's generally believed, or at least it use to be so within the longbow group I use to hang around with, that more lams made the bow both faster but harsher to shoot. I'm not sure either truism is correct. In my own mind, the Wesley is the top of the line HH longbow and I guess that's why I bought that model. I seriously doubt I could tell by shooting it blind folded if it was a Wesley, Big Five or Tembo (I've never shot a Tembo). In addition to a Wesley, I have an older Big Five with standard narrow HH grip. The primary difference is really the grip as I prefer the "locator" grip much more. The older Big Five also have more reflex and hence more handshock but after making a Dynaflight string for it, the handshock is very managable. As I recall, my Wesley was $516 or so delivered and I got some fancy stuff added to the standard package. Of course that was a few years ago. I think the HH longbows are a good value.


----------



## LBR (Jan 1, 2004)

Not to change the subject, there there's quite a few really nice longbows besides HH's that are also in/around the $500 range: Black Forrest, Navajo, Turkey Creek, Chek-Mate....that's off the top of my head. I'm sure there are others.

Longbowlover, where are you located? You may not want to wait until next year, but there are several big shoots in different parts of the country where you can try out lots of different bows. I understand it can be a bugger buying sight-unseen. 

Chad


----------



## longbowlover (Aug 14, 2006)

LBR

I'm located in Sounth Central Michigan. As far as I know there are no scheduled events in my area.

longbowlover


----------



## LBR (Jan 1, 2004)

There's the Kalamazoo Expo, in Feb? I think, and the Great Lakes Longbow Invitational--you could check out gobs of different bows at either one of these.

Chad


----------



## AKRuss (Jan 10, 2003)

There's a Wesley Special for sale in the classifieds right now. Looks pretty nice.


----------

