# .308 reduced loads



## Matatazela

Can't help at all with the powder quantity, but remember to pack the powder down in the case and fill it with cotton wool or something similar. This prevents the powder lying along the bottom of the case and the primer flame travelling over the powder. This causes very erratic groups due to inconsistent ignition rates / patterns.

BTW what powder do you use? Name / number / batch?

http://www.dlswc.co.za/Reload/default.asp n(Somchem's tables are online here)


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## Bushkey

Matatazela said:


> Can't help at all with the powder quantity, but remember to pack the powder down in the case and fill it with cotton wool or something similar. This prevents the powder lying along the bottom of the case and the primer flame travelling over the powder. This causes very erratic groups due to inconsistent ignition rates / patterns.
> 
> BTW what powder do you use? Name / number / batch?
> 
> http://www.dlswc.co.za/Reload/default.asp n(Somchem's tables are online here)


James, at this stage I use S335, I am not at home so I don't have my little book with me. I load it a bit hot for myself. This weekend we have a pre season shoot in Tzaneen. I don't hunt with my rifle any more but my lad is still to small for his bow. He is a darn good rifle shot, on the smaller calibers. If I can get loads sorted by Saturday I can have it tested and my rifle sighted for him. If every thing goes as planed he might shoot his first Warthog or Impala by Sunday.


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## Matatazela

Here it says start at 36.5 with a 180gr bullet.


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## Philip Moolman

*Reduced loads*

Bossie, 
Ek stel die volgende voor:
130gr punt 25gr S221 standaard slagdoppie
150gr punt 25g S221 standaard slagdoppie
Jy behoort so 1800-2000 vt/s te kry


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## Gerhard

Bushkey said:


> Can any of you guys help me with a reduced load for my .308. I want to get my rifle ready for my "lightyes" 1st hunt.
> 
> I had a reloading booklet with al the reduced loads and for the life of me cant find it. I want to have him shoot 180gr Interlock Hornady rounds as gently as relatively possible for a 9 year old lad.
> 
> Thanks.


Boet,

Question.

Do you think a reduced load is going to recoil significantly less than a standard load? From 2500fps to 2000fps...

The reason why I am asking is that your rifle might not be shooting reduced loads accurately.

How big is the lad? It the gun still to big for him? Or does he handle it comfortably?


Is he afraid of the recoil?

Reason I am asking is that I used to hunt with my dad's 3006 when I was that size and older.

He would sight in the rifle and then I would shoot 3 shots to confirm if I shoot on the same place.

I did join the half moon club a couple of times.

I shot a 270 that Bliksem me on the nose and I still believe a 270 is a [email protected] caliber to this day:tongue::tongue:


Then I would use that load for the animal I was hunting. As you do not feel the recoil when hunting. 

Hope this helps and enjoy the hunt and take lots of pics!!!!


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## Bushkey

Gerhard said:


> Boet,
> 
> Question.
> 
> Do you think a reduced load is going to recoil significantly less than a standard load? From 2500fps to 2000fps...
> 
> The reason why I am asking is that your rifle might not be shooting reduced loads accurately.


 According to a article in the Magnum of 1987 that I found last night, that would not be the case. Of course there would be the odd load that will not group but during the test they found some of the loads was even superior to normal loads. The author also mentioned that the recoil was noticeably less, and of course the economics in to reloading was good and damage to barrels reduced, for what that is worth.



Gerhard said:


> big is the lad? It the gun still to big for him? Or does he handle it comfortably?


 He is turning 9 in June. He shoots a lot of pellet gun and is pretty good. I have only allowed him to shoot with something bigger once but was driving the gun for him, because I was afraid he would not be able to handle it. 



Gerhard said:


> he afraid of the recoil?


 I don't know. For this reason I want to start him off fairly soft to try and eliminate bad habits from the start. I bought a .223 on Monday that would mostly be his rifle but like you know he might be out of home by the time I get the license:wink:



Gerhard said:


> I am asking is that I used to hunt with my dad's 3006 when I was that size and older.
> 
> He would sight in the rifle and then I would shoot 3 shots to confirm if I shoot on the same place.
> 
> I did join the half moon club a couple of times.


 Haven't we all. But then I believe we are softer on our kids than the old toppies was with us.



Gerhard said:


> I shot a 270 that Bliksem me on the nose and I still believe a 270 is a [email protected] caliber to this day:tongue::tongue:
> 
> 
> Then I would use that load for the animal I was hunting. As you do not feel the recoil when hunting.
> 
> Hope this helps and enjoy the hunt and take lots of pics!!!!


 We will. Thee is still a lot of work to be done, and Sunday sounds a bit ambitious but lets see.


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## Bushkey

I think I got it sorted out. Just came back from the range. Last night I loaded 10x .308 PMP brass with 10 grains of MP200 and 130 grain Norma bullets. I also loaded 10x .308 PMP brass with 12 grains of MP200 and 130 grain Norma bullets.

I sighted the rifle with these rounds at 50 meters, I don't want my lad to shoot further at this stage. I have to admit, it was the easiest and most enjoyable shooting I have done in a long time. It is hard for me to decide which load to use because there performance in the grouping department was very similar. I would probably stick with the 12 grain load. I have no idea what speed the bullet is doing at this stage I suspect it may be in the region of about 1300 feet per sec. I will shoot them over the "chronie" tomorrow.


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## Matatazela

Excellent. Now go and get a supressor for the rifle, and it will be like a pellet gun on steroids. Quiet, but really deadly. 

Seriously, the advantage to your lightie is that the supressor reduces muzzle flip and adds momentum at the end of the barrel, which is just like a 30" Doinker on a bow - it keeps the muzzle steady. Less noise also means that it scares the shooter less. You may need to resight the rifle again, though!

Finally, don't expect the bullets to function as advertised. At those velocities, you can almost expect no expansion. They are designed to expand at typical velocities and, indeed, need this velocity to expand.


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## Bushkey

Matatazela said:


> Excellent. Now go and get a supressor for the rifle, and it will be like a pellet gun on steroids. Quiet, but really deadly.
> 
> Seriously, the advantage to your lightie is that the supressor reduces muzzle flip and adds momentum at the end of the barrel, which is just like a 30" Doinker on a bow - it keeps the muzzle steady. Less noise also means that it scares the shooter less. You may need to resight the rifle again, though!


 I would love to silence her but where on earth do you get suppressors from, any idea?



Matatazela said:


> Finally, don't expect the bullets to function as advertised. At those velocities, you can almost expect no expansion. They are designed to expand at typical velocities and, indeed, need this velocity to expand.


Yes that is a bit of a worry for me. The shot is going to have to be pretty accurate. I know that the penetration will be more than sufficient, but the energy transfer, and expansion will be poor. They recommended a 160 grain bullet but I opted for the 130 hoping it will give me a tad more speed and a miraculous expansion at the same time :wink:


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## ASG

Bossie,

Do any of your hunting buddies have a .243 or a 30-30? both are perfect calibres for a kid venturing into hunting. Light weight, minimal recoil and they'll both drop an impala as if struck by lightning at under 100 yards.
If someone has one of these calibres and is willing to join you on the farm, they might be far more suitable the the little guy.
Meat wastage is also minimal with a 30-30.:wink:


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## Bushkey

ASG said:


> Bossie,
> 
> Do any of your hunting buddies have a .243 or a 30-30? both are perfect calibres for a kid venturing into hunting. Light weight, minimal recoil and they'll both drop an impala as if struck by lightning at under 100 yards.
> If someone has one of these calibres and is willing to join you on the farm, they might be far more suitable the the little guy.
> Meat wastage is also minimal with a 30-30.:wink:


Yes, you are right, but to get gun and owner on the same farm at the same time. A few years ago it would not have been a problem.


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## Bushkey

Phillip, hier is daardie kruit waarvan ek gepraat het. Die blik en die korrels. Laat my weet wat jy dink.


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## ASG

Musgrave!?:mg:

How old is that propellant?

Ja Bossie,

A 30-30 would certainly be a fantastic first calibre for the little guy.
They look like a cowboy gun, kick about the same as a .243, they point extremely well due to their shortness and their 170grain points are now available in a sharper point so shooting distance will improve. The ammo is expensive but if you are re-loading that becomes far more affordable.

Dit is die perfekte bosveld geweer vir klein en medium wild. Ek het al van rooibok tot wildebeeste met een gejag.:wink:


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## Bushkey

ASG said:


> Musgrave!?:mg:
> 
> How old is that propellant?
> 
> Ja Bossie,
> 
> A 30-30 would certainly be a fantastic first calibre for the little guy.
> They look like a cowboy gun, kick about the same as a .243, they point extremely well due to their shortness and their 170grain points are now available in a sharper point so shooting distance will improve. The ammo is expensive but if you are re-loading that becomes far more affordable.
> 
> Dit is die perfekte bosveld geweer vir klein en medium wild. Ek het al van rooibok tot wildebeeste met een gejag.:wink:


Ja they are quite something, Mogodu(Stephan) has one. And he is pretty proud of it. I know you also get .223 Sabot rounds for it.


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## Drenalinjunkie8

My dad has shot a HUGE eland bull with his 30-30 Thompson Contender. Its a great calibre.


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## Philip Moolman

*Powder*



Bushkey said:


> Phillip, hier is daardie kruit waarvan ek gepraat het. Die blik en die korrels. Laat my weet wat jy dink.


Bossie,
It is an extruded powder,but discontinued.I do not think that the expiry date is of any importance as long it has been stored properly.Roughly the same as S335.


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## Bushkey

Just arrived back from the range with my lad. Boy, am I impressed and proud. I had standard Impala targets at 50 and 100 meters as well as round iron targets with a diameter or roughly 10 cm.

At 50 meters he managed 5 out of 5 on target. Three perfect heart shots and two lower but still hitting vitals. 

At 100 meters the grouping was a bit bigger hitting two low heart shots but the other three was a tad low. I think the loads I'm using drops a bit over that distance. He could also hit those iron targets at 100 fairly easily.

A bit more practice tomorrow will do the trick I think. I have to be on my friends farm Saturday morning 07:00 then we will start our hunt. I am going to try my best to limit the hunting distance as much as possible and would ideally like to hunt within the 50 meter range.


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## Gerhard

Great News!!!!!

All that I can say now is enjoy the hunt.

And we want lots of pictures of the hunter and his dad!!!!


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## ASG

Passop Bossie!

Lighties have a way of embarrasing their toppies in front of other people.
The man might just drop a 60"+ Kudu or something similar.:wink:

What's he hunting anyway?


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## Bushcat

You have done the right thing by keeping the wieght of the bullet down. Newtons laws state that launching a heavier projectile will increase the felt recoil. (the whole equal and opposite reaction law.) Secondly may I point out that for a suppressor to be truly effective one has to drop the verlocity of the bullet to below the speed of sound, to realy drop the noise of the shot, or the suppressor will muffle the noise and as soon as the bullet exits the suppressor it will create a sonic boom, just as loud as it normaly would. you will also add alot of length to the firearm and will have to thread and re crown the muzzle. Think hard about suppresors, I have 2.

Bear in mind that unless you own your own farm most landowners will not allow you to use anything below a .243. So check that out as well. Have a look at 7 by 57. verry handy light calibre. 

Keep well 
Ryan


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## Matatazela

@ Ryan - that is entirely true. The noise from supersonic rounds is still significantly less with a supressor, to the point where earmuffs are not required. 

The felt recoil is also less, but I suspect this is due to the mass on the end of the barrel. (The supressor I have, for the next few days, at any rate, is a steel can and weighs about 300 grams). 

There are also many theories about accuracy, most saying that the rifle becomes more accurate because the supressor acts as a counterweight and absorbs some of the barrels harmonic vibration, making it flip less. Maybe an acomplished target shooter could tell the difference, but my old .303 has been unable to prove this theory!

Very true about overall length. It is not handy in the bush, and yes, the barrel will need to be threaded, but I feel it is definitely a worthwhile move, unless you are really sentimental about the rifle.


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## ASG

Ryan and James,

From personal experience I would advise against using a supressor.
Especially for a younger person.

By extending the length of the barrel and adding the extra weight they become a liability in the bush. The rifle no longer has its pointing ability and the hunter spends valuable seconds trying to stabilize the damn rifle and by then the impalas or kudu have melted back into the bush. They work well in very open terrain like the E/Cape where you see your quarry for a longer period of time.

I once guided a teenager using a .308 with a supressor in thick scrub and put him onto about 15 impala in a morning. He couldn't make the shot on any of them due to the time it took to get the rifle stable enough to aim. In the afternoon I finally convinced him to use a 30-30 and the first ram I put him onto became biltong.


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## Matatazela

Sawrie Baas. I jus wek in the grassland. I forget about trees and bushes! Eish!


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## ASG

Ja James,

In the grassland a supressor weks very nice.:wink:


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## Bushkey

Look what I came across. Remington actually loads them like this, and they call them Remington Managed-Recoil cartridges. http://www.chuckhawks.com/rem_managed_recoil.htm


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## Philip Moolman

*Caliber for kids*

Bossie,
Another nice cal is the AK round.I think you would get away with a Zastava mini Mauser action.Or the .30 BR.


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## Bushkey

Philip Moolman said:


> Bossie,
> Another nice cal is the AK round.I think you would get away with a Zastava mini Mauser action.Or the .30 BR.


It will be a nice Busveld round. 

I am actually a bit of a numbskull. I have the nicest of 7x57 Mausers at home and I did not even give it a thought for little Bush to hunt with.


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## ASG

Bushkey said:


> It will be a nice Busveld round.
> 
> I am actually a bit of a numbskull. I have the nicest of 7x57 Mausers at home and I did not even give it a thought for little Bush to hunt with.


 Now there's a wonderful calibre!:wink:
A tad fast for the bushveld but a wonderful calibre.

I hope little Bush will be shooting with open sights...:wink:


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## Bushkey

This is a news flash from big Bush, about little Bush from out of the bush. He sucsesfully droped an Impala ram with one shot. Full story and photos will folow on monday when I am back at my office behind my PC and off this crappy phone.


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## Matatazela

WAAAAAY Cool!!!!  Well done, and I hope the liver did not taste too bad...


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## Karoojager

Now little Bush is in the brotherhood of hunter, well done little Bush and my heartily welcome.


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