# Nasp....



## Spots_N_Dots (Nov 10, 2005)

You forgot one. Mathews makes the bows exclusively, they created the program, NASP doesn't move archers forward

how about bigger archery market share as an option?


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## MOPARLVR4406 (Apr 5, 2006)

Spots_N_Dots said:


> You forgot one. Mathews makes the bows exclusively, they created the program, NASP doesn't move archers forward
> 
> how about bigger archery market share as an option?


this is America....capitalism central....and don't tell me if you had thought of it first and had the resources to do it ...you wouldn't have :wink:
I'm sure not all archers that start in a NASP program are Mathews shooters for life....


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## titanium man (Mar 5, 2005)

Spots_N_Dots said:


> You forgot one. Mathews makes the bows exclusively, they created the program, NASP doesn't move archers forward
> 
> how about bigger archery market share as an option?


Agreed. Mathews wouldn't have done it, unless it was going to be in the best interest of them. Period.


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## rpdjr45 (Jul 28, 2007)

I think using the Gen. Bow is designed to get young archers to think they have to have a compound bow, which in the beginning costs a lot. On the other hand, using the simple recurves with which the risers can be saved and getting bigger/longer/ limbs is less expensive. In this case I'm writing about the Bullseye, Ragim, Heritage type beginner bows. So the argument made on the posting about what the US doesn't get, and the comment that NASP doesn't work would be correct in that recurve bows are not used and there is little transference from the NASP Gen Bows to recurve archery and JOAD clubs. Having stated that, I'd rather have them shooting than not shooting. I do think that both bow styles should be used and if that were the case, I think more youth shooters would pick up the game and have more fun for a life time.


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## titanium man (Mar 5, 2005)

titanium man said:


> Agreed. Mathews wouldn't have done it, unless it was going to be in the best interest of them. Period.


And it sure brings in the crowds---so obviously, it was an idea that has worked out very well, and it's become a popular fixure getting interest back in the younger shooters. Way to go Mathews!:thumbs_up


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## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

Here is my view. getting kids to experience archery is good. even if one kid out of 100 sticks with archery that is one more kid we didn't have. but I think the Genesis bow is not the best avenue.

here is why. Kids do NASP and if the like it many of them get those bows. after NASP is over they either go to a recurve JOAD club or a compound club. Mom or Dad finds out that junior has a bow that is worthless for NAA, IBO, ASA or NFAA tournaments I have a kid trying to shoot one of those things with release because she sees my other compound kids doing that and there is no compound/fingers in JOAD

at least if they used recurves the could put a sight on it and be competitive at the younger age groups (my son took second at NFAA indoor with one of those plastic handled bows that cost me all of 65 dollars-the shibuya sight on the bow was worth more than it by 2x)

also what NASP teaches has little use in "real" archery-other than perhaps FITA barebow or NFAA trad.

so we see kids with these things leave rather quickly in many cases because they cannot compete with those things

the premise is a great idea-the execution needs work


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## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

I should note that for rec centers or camps that genesis bow is a great idea.


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

Jim C said:


> I should note that for rec centers or camps that genesis bow is a great idea.


Therein lies the conundrum. The NASP program's success and "failure" are both based on the Genesis bow. The Genesis bow is adjustable in draw weight, works for multiple draw lengths without adjustment, and is more efficient than a recurve--simplifying both the equipment needed and the training of coaches. It is the key to the simplicity of NASP, and simplicity is required since NASP seems to be all about getting gym teachers to be quickly up and running teaching an archery program. But on the other hand, the Genesis bow is neither fish nor fowl out in the rest of the archery world, neither being allowed in recurve class, nor having the advantages of a full compound rig.

The question is what to do. NASP really moves kids through the program. I don't know the stats but I get the impression that more kids will be exposed to archery through NASP than any other single program. But they tend not to move on to other archery programs. Should some change be made? Should JOAD make a class for zero let off, fingers compound? Or should kids all have to change much of what they learned and pick up a completely new bow upon trying to take up archery outside of NASP? It doesn't seem like a simple problem.


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## amsurf (Mar 8, 2009)

I think your poll questions are just fine. I really don't care that Matthews or any other manufacturer endorses or influences these introductory level programs. I really don't understand all this bashing of the manufacturers for putting these programs in place. They are our biggest financial supporters and I never see anyone complain when they get a prize check from them at the end of a tournament! All I care is that these programs are there and are well supported. We may not like the particular form that they promote but if it helps grow the sport and gives the kids an opportunity to experience archery in a wholesome, safe environment then I'm all for it. After all if you don't like NASP then support Easton Foundation's Olympic Archery after School (OAS) program. Bottom line is that we need these programs as the incubator to feed into the higher level programs.

The one thing I find very unrealistic are those who measure these introductory programs by the success of producing high end competitive archers at the national or world level. These programs are not at all intended to do that. It's all the other infrastructure that needs help to make that happen. This is one area that I feel really needs to be addressed as I think everyone agrees that NASP or OAS cannot fulfill that role. So the real question is what can you or we do to help grow that part of the infrastructure to make the US more successful at the National and International levels?


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## MOPARLVR4406 (Apr 5, 2006)

I will add
I am officiating the Indiana NASP finals next friday
I have never seen kids so excited to be involved in something as these tourneys
kinda make some of us old burn-outs find that excitement again...at least for a while
nothing like the look on a 12 yr olds face when they spot all the arrows or on younger when all thier arrows are just on the target
this tourney is more like a rave or concert or pep rally than an archery tournement
I haven't missed one in 5 years....it's a blast


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## zaphod2002 (Dec 18, 2010)

To me that seems to be the key. Get kids excited and off their rear ends that keep expanding. 

I got involved as a 4H shooting sports coach, because the leader of the group is so excited to get kids shooting (not at each other hopefully.) The existing shooting sports club in our county struggles to have 5 people show up and we have 45 kids involved. From that my daughter fell in love with shooting a recurve bow and now I am out a ton of money and driving to Austin every month for coaching.  If a kid never picks up a bow (Genesis or not) they will never have a chance to love shooting one. I see kids all the time at 4H shooting Genesis compounds with fingers at 4H tourneys. There is a lot more competition for finger compound than FITA recurve at them.


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## zaphod2002 (Dec 18, 2010)

I also have seen Genesis bows with stabalizers and sights that were jury rigged on them.


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## TomB (Jan 28, 2003)

I agree with Jim and others 100 percent. If I am doing an archery outreach for say 4 or 5 hundred people, the genesis go in the trailer. Folks think they are cool and fun. But, when I want to teach someone, like my college archery classes, camps, and 4h new archers, I use the wooden or polymer handled recurves, even if they eventually want to shoot compound. There is nothing I can teach with the genesis that I can't teach with the wooden recurves and the wooden recurves can be used in a fairly competitive environment where the genesis cannot.

I do have a special use for the genesis pro with the hard wall adjustability that makes it useful teaching the proper way to use a release aid. Lancaster has an after market stop for the regular genesis that can make it have a hard wall for training also.

One other comment about the genesis for everyday use: the lack of a wall or an increasing force draw curve (stacking) makes it difficult to teach proper mechanics to either the recurve or compound destined archer.


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## titanium man (Mar 5, 2005)

*This is a nice boost for the NASP in TN.*

*Much credit also to the ATA!!*:thumbs_up

ATA Press Release
March 3, 2011

Opryland Helps Fuel Nashville Archery

New Ulm, Minn. — In a deal negotiated by the Archery Trade Association (ATA), Gaylord Opryland Hotel has donated $100,000 to the Tennessee Wildlife Resources Agency (TWRA) and those funds are making it possible for thousands of Nashville area students to explore the sport of archery.



The funding, from the Gaylord Entertainment Foundation and provided through the Gaylord Opryland Hotel, was donated in $25,000 annual contributions. These contributions were a result of a negotiation between the ATA and Gaylord Entertainment. The negotiation was conducted with the intent to create funding for the TWRA and introduce archery to schools in the Nashville area.



Don Crawford, assistant chief of Information and Education for the TWRA, said the contributions provided the opportunity for the TWRA to initiate the National Archery in the Schools Program (NASP) in the Nashville area three years ago. It has since expanded and is now taught in 21 schools in the Nashville metro area of Davidson County and five schools in the Williamson-Davidson county area of Brentwood. The program is reaching some 5,200 students each year.



“We are proud to be a sponsor of the Tennessee Wildlife Resources Foundation’s National Archery in the Schools Program,” said Jacque Layfield of Gaylord Entertainment Foundation. “We are particularly interested in the future of arts, education and youth related organizations that have the most immediate and positive impact on the health and growth of our communities. Gaylord Entertainment Company supports a variety of organizations that help people improve the quality of their lives.”



NASP is a joint venture between state departments of education and wildlife agencies that promotes student education, physical education, and participation in the life-long sport of archery for students in grades four through twelve. Participating schools must send at least one instructor to an 8-hour training course to become a certified archery instructor and teach the course in school.



“Cost for the NASP equipment is approximately $3,000 per school, which includes everything from bows and arrows to targets, bow racks, safety netting, and curriculum materials. The contributions made it possible to purchase the necessary equipment for the schools and allow students to try their hand at a popular new sport,” Crawford said. 



NASP is a first step in developing life-long archers and bowhunters, Crawford explained. After participating in NASP, the intent is for state agencies, local schools and park and recreation departments to partner in providing further opportunities for young people to continue their participation in archery and bowhunting.



“Archery is a sport that anyone of any age or physical ability can participate in and enjoy success,” Crawford said. “Not everyone can do that with ball sports but they can with archery. The goal is for archery to become as available to youth in Tennessee as are sports like baseball, soccer, or tennis. It’s all about engaging the unengaged, about getting kids off the couch and outdoors.”



Michelle Doerr, director of archery and bowhunting programs for the ATA, said the future for archery programs in the Nashville area is trending upward. In addition to the Nashville initiative, the ATA has helped boost community archery in Tennessee through funding of the Montgomery County Shooting Complex near Clarksville, Tennessee. “Don really understands the strategies that are critical for implementing archery programs in schools and communities,” Doerr said. “I’m confident we’ll see archery continue to grow in popularity in Nashville, as well as the rest of the state, and the ATA looks forward to being a strong partner in that endeavor.” 



Statewide, nearly 200 schools in Tennessee participate in NASP. 



For more information, contact Amy Hatfield at (803) 275-2257 or by e-mail at [email protected]



About the ATA

Since 1953 ATA has been the trade association for manufacturers, retailers, distributors, sales representatives and others working in the archery and bowhunting industry. ATA is dedicated to making the industry profitable by decreasing business overhead, and reducing taxes and government regulation while increasing participation in archery and bowhunting. ATA owns and manages the ATA Trade Show, the archery and bowhunting industry's largest and longest running trade show worldwide. More information can be found at www.archerytrade.org.


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## oldschoolcj5 (Jun 8, 2009)

NASP is a great program for getting kids interested in archery. NASP teaches instinctive sighting and shooting with fingers instead of a release, both great fundamentals of archery. Could it be done with recurves - kinda doubt it since 4th graders and high school seniors are required to shoot the same bow design. ~7,000 kids made it to Nationals here in KY last year from all over the US. Those that say these kids lose interest quick or have a useless bow are not watching very close. 

BTW, the money of Matthews and Easton make the equipment readily available. Little known fact is that Matthews was not the only builder of the Genesis design (at least not at first). Parker (somebody fact check me) built some of the bows and then decided NASP wasn't for them. Bet they regret that now. Carbon Express tried to get into the NASP arrow business over the last couple of years, but aluminum won out for safety reasons and Easton is still on top. 

If it sounds like I take this a little personal - I do. I am one of the coaches for the school where my son attends and participates in NASP. My daughter just changed schools this year and her new school doesn't have the program (YET)- boy was she bummed. 

The kids have a great time learning how to shoot and parents and coaches can have fun right along side them. NASP has made a positive impact on thousands of kids! BTW, How many new archers have FITA and the other orgs picked up in recent years? Seems like these advanced shooting organizations might be better served to look at NASP archers as a great group of potential recruits. Yes they will need a new bow, but they can sell their old NASP bow to the new kid coming into the program who wants to own their own bow. And lets face it, most of the people who read this will have more invested in a sight than the ~$150 a NASP bow costs. 

Reasonably priced equipment + even playing field + Team and Individual goals + coaches that care = NASP (A GREAT Program)


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## oldschoolcj5 (Jun 8, 2009)

Matthews and Easton are not the only players and they are not the only ones pouring money back into the program. Check out this snippet from the NASP grants information sheet:

NASP® Announces Increase to School Equipment Grants Program

By: Roy Grimes, President NASP®

The Easton Foundations (EF®) has partnered with the National Archery in the Schools Program (NASP®) to accelerate the already tremendous growth rate of this popular school archery effort. In May, NASP® announced the establishment of its first equipment grant program to help new NASP® schools. Contributors cooperated to provide $150,000 for this purpose. Donors also include:

* Shikar-Safari Club International
* Army National Guard
* Mathews Archery
* Easton Technical Products
* Morrell, Field Logic, and Rinehart Targets
* BCY & Brownell arrow curtains
* Papes Archery
* BowTree
* Plano
* Mossy Oak
* National Wild Turkey Federation
* Safari Club, and the Mule Deer Foundation. 

This week EF® added $150,000 to the grant fund. Thanks to EF®, twice as many new schools from each of the 47 NASP® states and 5 NASP® provinces may receive assistance to start their archery classes.


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## Wooglin (Jan 23, 2011)

My son's middle school is in the NASP program and that is how he got into archery and eventually got me into it. I got him a Genesis Pro bow which has a few more features than the regular Genesis bow they use in school. I am glad they have that program because without it he nor I would have gotten into archery. I love it. I can't get enough of shooting with him in the backyard and we have also found an outdoor range here in town. What's cool is that my daughter wants to get into it too. I am going to buy her a bow real soon. She is just 10 and I am thinking about getting her a regular Genesis. I am grateful to the NASP program for getting three new archers into the fold, regardless of sponsor affiliation.


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## oldschoolcj5 (Jun 8, 2009)

I talked with Roy Grimes yesterday via email. He shared these stats with me:

_Mike,
By the end of this school year (June 30) there will be 9,000 schools and 2,000,000 students who participated in the program this year. Next year will be our first to surpass participation in Little League baseball -- 47 states, 5 provinces, and 5 countries._


A couple hours later he followed up:
_
By the way, just 30 minutes ago, Namibia (African Country) became NASP Country #6._


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## beren (Oct 12, 2010)

oldschoolcj5 said:


> Carbon Express tried to get into the NASP arrow business over the last couple of years, but aluminum won out for safety reasons and Easton is still on top.


Here in Kentucky, they are strongly recommending the Carbon Express arrow (at least they were 2 months ago) for every day practice, and then switch to the Easton Genesis Arrow a week or two before tourneys. The carbon arrow was simply more durable. Not sure how anectodal their evidence is/was...


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## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

beren said:


> Here in Kentucky, they are strongly recommending the Carbon Express arrow (at least they were 2 months ago) for every day practice, and then switch to the Easton Genesis Arrow a week or two before tourneys. The carbon arrow was simply more durable. Not sure how anectodal their evidence is/was...


The whole reasoning was that the Genesis arrow from Easton would create sharp edges if broken, but would not splinter. The CE arrow would still splinter.

There was an interesting bout of letters where the CE arrow was approved, then it was immediately disapproved a quick and short time after.

-Steve


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## DFArcher (Mar 15, 2006)

Yep it’s an interesting subject we have talked about quite often. I think I have a unique perspective because I have a son who is a world class compound shooter, and a very good NASP archer as well finishing 2nd in our state and in the top 5 at the national tournament in Louisville last year. I have been to Louisville twice and it is amazing to see that many kids shooting a bow. So many kids enjoy this program that are not able or suited to participate in other school “sports”. I just think it’s a shame that we did not come up with a program that would help all of these shooters transition into serious target archery instead of just “getting them interested” in archery. My son has gotten to the point where he does not really want to practice with the NASP bow simply because he cannot see any long term benefit. Practice with the Genesis does not help him with his serious target archery and there are only so many hours the day. I understand the issues with cost, no way there would be 7000 kids shooting in Louisville if they had to have a $3,000 target rig to compete. But it is possible to get an entry level recurve with a serviceable sight for a couple hundred bucks. A program like that with the participation level of the NASP program would have an amazing impact on target archery in the USA. NASP is a great program, but in my opinion it’s a shame we have kids who could potentially be shooting a bow through 10 years of school and they are not really learning a skill that translates into archery beyond the school program.


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

DFArcher said:


> I just think it’s a shame that we did not come up with a program that would help all of these shooters transition into serious target archery instead of just “getting them interested” in archery.


Well, maybe the answer isn't to transition out of Genesis bows but in expanding NASP-style shooting further, and adding an NASP-type class to ASAP, JOAD, etc., as sort of a show room stock class, or something, for genesis bows. Right now the presumption is that kids have to give up genesis bows and learn "real" archery--but why should that be? Why are zero let off compounds any less legitimate than any other class of bows? If the goal is too be an olympic FITA Recurve archer, then there is a point, but why does that need to be the goal?


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## DFArcher (Mar 15, 2006)

Warbow said:


> Well, maybe the answer isn't to transition out of Genesis bows but in expanding NASP-style shooting further, and adding an NASP-type class to ASA, JOAD, etc., as sort of a show room stock class, or something, for genesis bows. Right now the presumption is that kids have to give up genesis bows and learn "real" archery--but why should that be? Why are zero let off compounds any less legitimate than any other class of bows? If the goal is too be an olympic FITA Recurve archer, then there is a point, but why does that need to be the goal?


There is already some of that going on. But it still makes more sense to me to help them compete in the other formats.


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

DFArcher said:


> There is already some of that going on. But it still makes more sense to me to help them compete in the other formats.


I can see that in the current climate that is the more practical thing to do, but we still get stories of kids getting turned off to archery when they bring their NASP experience--3 under, fingers, zero let off compound--and are told what they are doing is "wrong" and they'll have to start over. Some kids will start over. If we, as kids archery instructors, want to bring as many NASP archers into our archery programs what is the best way to do that? I can see many possibilities, but the one that is likely to keep the most kids seems like one that has an NASP-style class to accommodate the kids who don't wan to / aren't ready to transition. Not all the kids are like your talented son, who can excel at both or either.

Anyway, I'm not saying we have to do any specific thing, I''m just looking for a range of solutions.


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## rpdjr45 (Jul 28, 2007)

Wouldn't it make sense to give the schools a list of all the archery clubs and ranges in each state. "For those of you interested in continuing to shoot, here is a list of clubs in the area ... etc." I assume most clubs have loaner equipment and those would be a mix of recurves and genny bows.


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## DFArcher (Mar 15, 2006)

Warbow said:


> I can see that in the current climate that is the more practical thing to do, but we still get stories of kids getting turned off to archery when they bring their NASP experience--3 under, fingers, zero let off compound--and are told what they are doing is "wrong" and they'll have to start over. Some kids will start over. If we, as kids archery instructors, want to bring as many NASP archers into our archery programs what is the best way to do that? I can see many possibilities, but the one that is likely to keep the most kids seems like one that has an NASP-style class to accommodate the kids who don't wan to / aren't ready to transition. Not all the kids are like your talented son, who can excel at both or either.
> 
> Anyway, I'm not saying we have to do any specific thing, I''m just looking for a range of solutions.


Good points especially since we are so far along with the NASP program in its current format. Still thought the majority of our best target archers tend to come from a few areas where there are more facilities, coaches etc to provide support, they are comming from a pretty small pool of the population. Its hard for me not to think of "what might of been" with this program and its millions of shooters. Nothing wrong with expanding the opportuinities for NASP style shooting, I just don't think NASP style shooting will ever be popular for shooters beyond the school program.


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

DFArcher said:


> I just don't think NASP style shooting will ever be popular for shooters beyond the school program.


That is probably true, but then I wouldn't have believed the success of NASP, either. But they just went and **made it happen.** Perhaps the same could be true for NASP-style shooting, that with the proper dedication it could be made to happen. Don't know, though, since NASP is getting everyone to shoot the same gear, and adults like to game the system, get the best gear they can within their clas, personalize their stuff--which just so happens to correspond with what sponsors/manufacturers/retailers like. So, I dunno.


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## uparchergirl (Feb 19, 2011)

*NASP is Fantastic!*

Reasons why:

1. This program allows thousands of kids to experience an incredible sport they might otherwise never get to. Me being one of them. Without this program I probably never would have picked up a bow, let alone become addicted to this fantastic sport/discipline.
2. Allows students access to the sport. Nasp can be held in schools so students don't have to drive or find transportation to an archery range (assuming one is available). The closest archery range to my school that I know of is about an hour and a half away, and most of my team members are too young to drive. So, even if we participated in archery we wouldn't be able to shoot very often without Nasp.
3. Everyone uses the same equiptment. The equiptment that we use, the genesis bow, and 1820 easton arrows really aren't that bad, sure, it does kind of stink that 4th graders are using the same equiptment as 12th graders, but they make sure that the playing field is level. Those with less resources can compete against others without the disadvantage of inferior equiptment, and can use the same equiptment for a much longer time before replacing it.
4. Allows the students to be physically active and to compete in a sport regardless of their build, gender, or mental capabilities. Someone who is 4'9 can compete fairly against someone who is 5'10, a girl can beat a guy, and a special needs student can compete against the class validictorian.

In short, Nasp is a great program that introduces students to a sport that can last them a lifetime. While it may have some flaws I believe that the pros of this program greatly outweigh the cons.
To all you Nasp coaches, and anyone else out there who helps this program succeed I want to give you a huge THANKYOU for the starting this program and helping it continue.


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## DFArcher (Mar 15, 2006)

uparchergirl said:


> *NASP is Fantastic!*
> 
> Reasons why:
> 
> ...


I agree with all you said, I've seen it. The question is can we make it better?


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## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

Interspersed with a ***

-Steve




uparchergirl said:


> *NASP is Fantastic!*
> 
> Reasons why:
> 
> 1. This program allows thousands of kids to experience an incredible sport they might otherwise never get to. Me being one of them. Without this program I probably never would have picked up a bow, let alone become addicted to this fantastic sport/discipline.


*** Question - does your program do a club side or PE only?



> 2. Allows students access to the sport. Nasp can be held in schools so students don't have to drive or find transportation to an archery range (assuming one is available). The closest archery range to my school that I know of is about an hour and a half away, and most of my team members are too young to drive. So, even if we participated in archery we wouldn't be able to shoot very often without Nasp.


*** I am assuming that its club based. 



> 3. Everyone uses the same equiptment. The equiptment that we use, the genesis bow, and 1820 easton arrows really aren't that bad, sure, it does kind of stink that 4th graders are using the same equiptment as 12th graders, but they make sure that the playing field is level. Those with less resources can compete against others without the disadvantage of inferior equiptment, and can use the same equiptment for a much longer time before replacing it.


*** One size fits all actually puts an archer at a disadvantage. I would put one of my students with properly tuned equipment sans sights against others with a Genesis bow and arrows any day of the week. Level playing field is a misnomer.


> 4. Allows the students to be physically active and to compete in a sport regardless of their build, gender, or mental capabilities. Someone who is 4'9 can compete fairly against someone who is 5'10, a girl can beat a guy, and a special needs student can compete against the class validictorian.
> 
> In short, Nasp is a great program that introduces students to a sport that can last them a lifetime. While it may have some flaws I believe that the pros of this program greatly outweigh the cons.
> To all you Nasp coaches, and anyone else out there who helps this program succeed I want to give you a huge THANKYOU for the starting this program and helping it continue.




Sent from my SGH-T849 using Tapatalk


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## scriv (Jan 31, 2008)

NASP as an introduction to archery is a great idea. My wife and I met several hundred kids when we went in to assist the Instructors at a local school. The problem I see with the class is that the kids are not truly challenged. They are capable of so much more and (at least at this school) I could not find one that would continue after the class had ended. What I am saying is that as a gateway it is great. As an end-not so much.


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

scriv said:


> I could not find one that would continue after the class had ended. What I am saying is that as a gateway it is great. A


Hmm...I'd say that it isn't really even a gateway if kids don't want to continue on in archery.

There has to be a way to leverage NASP--at this point I wonder if the sponsors are wondering how its working in terms of archery adoption...?


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## Mithril (Dec 4, 2010)

The sponsors probably don't see it like that (care about the gateway factor) or they would have pushed for changes to fix the problem long ago.

Maybe it's why Easton Foundation has funded NASP but also seems to fund an Olympic oriented school program too.


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## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

I've been thinking more about NASP overnight. 

Not to decry the presented stats (but I am to a certain degree)...

1) How many of those millions of kids being put through NASP do it through physical education? And how many do it via a club setup?

2) NASP has no transition plan. Great - you get kids to shoot a basic archery class setup. Now what?

3) Practical life skill: yes, you get to shoot a bow at 10 and 15 yards. What practical application in hunting or target archery does that when you grow up?

4) If NASP was truly interested in creating more archery for target, why are DNR AND game/fish department entities on the state level doing it?

5) conversely, if its to create more hunters, then why aren't there an increase in archery hunters in the U.S. ?


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## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

ESDF cares less as to who they give money to as long as you can justify it and its to a worthy cause like a charter school or a non profit.


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## freddyd (Jan 26, 2009)

I'm a public school teacher and coach of an after school NASP program. At my school families come from the lower socio-economic status and students are at-risk. We practice twice a week as well as have academic tutoring. The kids compete in local competitions, not only NASP type shoots but 3D too. Although exposing them to archery is important, our club's intent is to provide archery to keep them out of trouble and to provide appropriate academic help. 

I believe that the intent of NASP is to create responsible, respectful, civic minded citizens. The archery is secondary. Where I live there's no transition to other archery programs: NASP or bust.

I have no problems with the genesis bows as the standard for NASP. The kids easily learn the 11 steps on them, the bows are easy to shoot, and kids get proficient with them quickly. As a school program, its easier to teach on one type of bow than if students were given different varieties and have to teach the nuances of the different bow to each student.


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## Mithril (Dec 4, 2010)

I like your avatar there mr. Public school teacher! I also like the idea of 'midnight archery', beats the crap out of 'midnight basketball'!


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## freddyd (Jan 26, 2009)

Mithril said:


> I like your avatar there mr. Public school teacher! I also like the idea of 'midnight archery', beats the crap out of 'midnight basketball'!


Haha! At my school a bunch of us shoot and own all sorts of firearms. We're not exactly "typical" public school teachers. Well, not typical for 21st century sensitivities.


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## Mithril (Dec 4, 2010)

There was a time when our high school guidance counselor/study hall monitor brought a bunch of muzzleloaders and centerfire rifles in to show the class... He even demonstrated his original Hawkins with a pinch of powder to show us how the spoon worked.

Kids today are missing out on a lot. We lost our country a while back and didn't even know it...


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## Wooglin (Jan 23, 2011)

Mithril said:


> There was a time when our high school guidance counselor/study hall monitor brought a bunch of muzzleloaders and centerfire rifles in to show the class... He even demonstrated his original Hawkins with a pinch of powder to show us how the spoon worked.
> 
> *Kids today are missing out on a lot. We lost our country a while back and didn't even know it...*



You can say that again!


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## oldschoolcj5 (Jun 8, 2009)

One thing that happens in the area here in central KY is a summer "archery camp" centered around archery. NASP shooters are "targeted" as possible attendees and the format goes something like this: 
Day 1: NASP skills
Day 2: NASP cont'd
Day 3: JOAD intro
Day 4:JOAD cont'd
Day 5: Compound Bows Hunting & 3D intro


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## Phyrmon (Mar 5, 2011)

My personal opinion is that without NASP there would be "x" amount of archers picking up a bow for the first time during any given year, BUT because of NASP, we now have "x + ???!!" because just a few more continue on to the next level of their own accord and transition onto recurves or compounds and competitive shooting (of some sort)

My son is nine years old and has been shooting a Genesis for three years now and has it DIALED. Though he has to compete as a compound shooter, he holds his own quite well and occasionally wins. Of course, as he gets older, the benefits of a compound will hurt him as the range increases, but it has been a great bow to introduce him to archery and it did just as promised - it grew with him, so I didn't have to buy more limbs every time he got stronger and more proficient.

He uses a sight on his bow and is now working on a mechanical release (more out of his own curiosity). I dare say that he will have to "relearn" everything when he continues on to either a compound or a recurve.

As far as NASP not having a plan for transitioning the new shooter to continue? That is typical of American fringe sports. The idea is to get them hooked with no plan to continue to the next level. When I was a Professional Ski Instructor, we had the same problem. We taught EVERYONE to snow plow in order to give them the skills to "get around the mountain" and have fun. The we spent the rest of their skiing lives trying to un-teach the bad habits developed by learning to snow plow.

Just my two cents: anything that gets them shooting is good....coming up with the next step? A great idea needing to be developed by someone.


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## wa-prez (Sep 9, 2006)

I am the co-coordinator for NASP in our state (Washington).

Of course, I wouldn't have volunteered for the position if I didn't see the value in it, so here goes some of it:

Program introduces LOTS of kids to archery, including those who might never have thought of trying it on their own

Program is simplified and standardized. A good portion of the PE teachers teaching NASP were not already archers when they got into the program, just like they might not have been golfers or weight lifters but need to teach those modules of PE. Equipment must be very simple and standard, so the coach doesn't have to go around the room accounting for hundreds of permutations of possible setup. One bow, one arrow, no sights or do-dads. ALSO a benefit of the standardization is the archer / school can't "buy" a score by investing in fancier equipment or options. the poor school district and the posh one use the same stuff on the range.

Competition distances of 10 METERS and 15 METERS are not bad to start transition to REAL shooting. We invite the NASP archers to our indoor events (18 meters for multi-color, 20 yards for blueface). The distance is a little longer, and the target is smaller than what NASP uses, but the kids came out and had FUN. Of 223 participants at our State Indoor Blueface, 45 were NASP division archers!

In the Instructor Training classes, we take time to tell the instructor candidates about other competition formats, and give them our Calendar Card and Club and Shop List and a copy of our newsletter so they will know there is a great big archery world out here!

I could go on, but that's enough for now!


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## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

Phyrmon said:


> (snip) Of course, as he gets older, the benefits of a compound will hurt him as the range increases, (snip)


I'm a bit confused by this statement. Not to sound odd - what do you mean by this?

Thanks,
Steve


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## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

wa-prez said:


> I am the co-coordinator for NASP in our state (Washington).
> 
> Of course, I wouldn't have volunteered for the position if I didn't see the value in it, so here goes some of it:
> 
> ...


Kudos to your program that also helps attempt to migrate students onward to other forms of archery.

I will disagree with you in one way - there are tweaks that one can do to a Genesis so that it can perform better. Richer schools with coaches that understand bow tuning and performance will attempt to do those tweaks. I haven't seen it specifically in Arizona, but I have heard of it (even here on AT) happening.

-Steve


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

Beastmaster said:


> I will disagree with you in one way - there are tweaks that one can do to a Genesis so that it can perform better. Richer schools with coaches that understand bow tuning and performance will attempt to do those tweaks. I haven't seen it specifically in Arizona, but I have heard of it (even here on AT) happening.
> 
> -Steve


Where ever you have competitive people some of them will try to game the system. I suppose competitions could require competitors to use bows from a pool, just as modern pentathaletes have to use unfamiliar pool horses.


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## Phyrmon (Mar 5, 2011)

Beastmaster said:


> I'm a bit confused by this statement. Not to sound odd - what do you mean by this?
> 
> Thanks,
> Steve


Sorry Steve, I can see how that is a confusing statement.

What I was getting at is: Since my son is considered a "compound shooter" while useing his Genesis bow, he doesn't benefit from the advantages of shooting a true compound bow. Which is fine for now, but as he gets older and the competetion gets older and stronger, and the targets move further out, we'll have to consider getting him better equipement then. 

-Joe


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## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

Phyrmon said:


> Sorry Steve, I can see how that is a confusing statement.
> 
> What I was getting at is: Since my son is considered a "compound shooter" while useing his Genesis bow, he doesn't benefit from the advantages of shooting a true compound bow. Which is fine for now, but as he gets older and the competetion gets older and stronger, and the targets move further out, we'll have to consider getting him better equipement then.
> 
> -Joe


Ah. Makes sense now. Thanks!


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## SpOtFyRe (Apr 9, 2007)

I witnessed the NASP shoot at Vegas this year when I went. The excitement in that room was amazing and the faces of the youth were awesome to behold. PRICELESS.

Sometimes as competitive archers and coaches we need to just step back and realize what participating in (any sport) can do for a youth ... even if they do not continue on to it at a competitive level. I played softball/volleyball as a child in school and extra-curricular ... I'm not competitive in those sports now. But the teamwork values and focus that I learned transfered elsewhere in life.

I believe that as long as the youth knows they can talk to their instructor and is told about other opportunities to continue into whichever aspect of archery they like the program is serving an excellent purpose. I enjoy using the Genesis bows in the youth program at my club along with the recurves that we have as well. Being able to offer either to the youth is great for them.


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## Phyrmon (Mar 5, 2011)

SpOtFyRe said:


> I witnessed the NASP shoot at Vegas this year when I went. The excitement in that room was amazing and the faces of the youth were awesome to behold. PRICELESS.
> 
> Sometimes as competitive archers and coaches we need to just step back and realize what participating in (any sport) can do for a youth ... even if they do not continue on to it at a competitive level. I played softball/volleyball as a child in school and extra-curricular ... I'm not competitive in those sports now. But the teamwork values and focus that I learned transfered elsewhere in life.
> 
> I believe that as long as the youth knows they can talk to their instructor and is told about other opportunities to continue into whichever aspect of archery they like the program is serving an excellent purpose. I enjoy using the Genesis bows in the youth program at my club along with the recurves that we have as well. Being able to offer either to the youth is great for them.


Seriously! They were having so much fun. I particularly was amused when the schools broke out into chants. You're 100% right, they were hving FUN>


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## Matt Z (Jul 22, 2003)

Curious, has there been or what were the results of any JOAD coordinators who have approached a NASP program (class or club) for JOAD recruitment?

I've been out of JOAD for years now, but my local shop owner who is the head coach for the high school NASP program is asking me to come back as there are a number of NASP participants wanting to take things to the next level.


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## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

Matt Z said:


> Curious, has there been or what were the results of any JOAD coordinators who have approached a NASP program (class or club) for JOAD recruitment?
> 
> I've been out of JOAD for years now, but my local shop owner who is the head coach for the high school NASP program is asking me to come back as there are a number of NASP participants wanting to take things to the next level.


In another thread, I mentioned how I helped transition a NASP club into the JOAD world. Now they are the second largest club in Arizona. 

-Steve

Sent from my HTC Glacier using Tapatalk


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## jeduffey (Aug 25, 2005)

DFArcher said:


> I agree with all you said, I've seen it. The question is can we make it better?


Wrong question. Rather ask, what can we do to get all those other lack luster, nearly invisible, programs to match up to NASP?

NASP spec shooting classes should be added to nearly every competition.

I had a much longer answer, but it didn't post. Maybe later.


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## STUDENT-ARCHER (Jun 26, 2009)

I like the concept of getting as many kids as possible involved in archery. I would like to see at least one poundage upgrade(limbs and/or cam), for the production Genesis bows, so that there is a look into "Real Target/3-D Archery" before needing to step up to a real compound. Not likely that Mathews would like that though...would be a great niche market for a limb/cam manufacturer...


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## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

jeduffey said:


> Wrong question. Rather ask, what can we do to get all those other lack luster, nearly invisible, programs to match up to NASP?
> 
> NASP spec shooting classes should be added to nearly every competition.
> 
> I had a much longer answer, but it didn't post. Maybe later.


Arizona has added into their state championships a "sightless compound" division. I'm planning two 25m indoor shoots (bringing that aspect of archery back into the spotlight in Arizona) and will also have that same category in those two shoots.


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## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

STUDENT-ARCHER said:


> I like the concept of getting as many kids as possible involved in archery. I would like to see at least one poundage upgrade(limbs and/or cam), for the production Genesis bows, so that there is a look into "Real Target/3-D Archery" before needing to step up to a real compound. Not likely that Mathews would like that though...would be a great niche market for a limb/cam manufacturer...


There is a possibility that what you are asking for cannot be done - I really don't know of the riser or limb pockets can handle an increase in stress.

-Steve


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## wa-prez (Sep 9, 2006)

STUDENT-ARCHER said:


> I like the concept of getting as many kids as possible involved in archery. I would like to see at least one poundage upgrade(limbs and/or cam), for the production Genesis bows, so that there is a look into "Real Target/3-D Archery" before needing to step up to a real compound. Not likely that Mathews would like that though...would be a great niche market for a limb/cam manufacturer...


Matthews does make the Genesis "Pro" model which goes up to 40# and includes an adjustable draw stop on the bottom cam.

It is NOT legal in NASP competition, but some archers use them as a stepping stone to other equipment.


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## wa-prez (Sep 9, 2006)

Matt Z said:


> Curious, has there been or what were the results of any JOAD coordinators who have approached a NASP program (class or club) for JOAD recruitment?


I can't speak for the JOAD side of things, but we do invite NASP archers to participate in our two Indoor events (Multi-Color and Blueface), and SEVERAL did come out this year. It is a chance for them to get exposed to the rest of the archery community, and for the state association members to learn more about NASP archers and their capabibilities.

A couple young folk who were introduced to archery in their High School NASP program have gone on to college, and started a CAP cub at their university. The University hosted our State NASP Championship the past two years, and the university club members were a huge help in putting on the event


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## b0w_bender (Apr 30, 2006)

I have several comments. 
1) I don't believe NASP was created by Mathews. I believe that to be an incorrect statement. In fact I believe that multiple manufacturers were approached and asked to come up with a cost affective bow that would fit 90 percent of the archers. Mathews was the company that stepped up and said we'll find a way. Perhaps someone involved in the early stages of the program can confirm htis.
2) If the NASP archers are not moving on to the public ranks of archery it is not the fault of the NASP program. it is the fault of the short sighted clubs and other organizations that are not harvesting that enthusiasm. We need to get in there and help those kids signed up for the next level. If you want those kids involved it has to become way more obvious to them what other options are available to them. Get your club to hold an open house for all NASP shooters. Hand them a real compound and or explain that re-curves are required in the Olympics. introduce them to the other tournaments happening every weekend.
3) Archery is archery, whether you shoot with fingers or a release, with a compound or recurve it's all good. 

I give a double thumbs up to the NASP program. I run a JOAD program and I get a lot of walk-ins I simply could not provide that service without the genesis bow. I have sucked a lot of kids and parents into the sport just by letting them shoot it. Almost always they toss the genesis aside when they get a feel for the real compounds but I would have never gotten them hooked with out the Genesis bows. Thank you Mathews!


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