# Martin Cat Cam-Optimum Settings-Advice-Questions



## gjstudt (Nov 14, 2005)

I've been shooting the CAT cam for some time now. I've learned a ton of things. One thing I have found is how to find the sweet spot. We all like a different feel and I would like for this thread to be used to help each of us find what we like. I have done lots of testing and I will continue to do a lot more. The one thing I know is that when you find the sweet spot as I have you will enjoy this cam as much or more than any cam you have shot.

I wish I had some pictures and I will try to take some tonight.

I want to help those that want help and to continue to learn myself.

Let's define some myths and facts about the cam in this thread.

Let's define some do's and don'ts.

I will try to start. I'm always short on time and I will help each day that I can.

Myth-At full draw the modules must touch the cables at the same time, Most certainly Myth.
Fact-Your bow can perform at its optimum setting while the modules do not touch the cables at full draw at all, and where the gap between the module and the cable are not exactly the same. When you are in this setting, the draw stop becomes the key factor.

Do's- Use the draw stop to your advantage. Long draw guys (30,31") we would need to discuss. I'm a 28" draw.

Don'ts-Do not get worked up about the "Timing" of the wheels" get it close and work on the draw stop. Then fine tune. I can help with that.

Do's-Get the cam wrapped up in the cable as much as possible without the cables touching the cable(Loop) post in the relaxed (static-not full draw) state. This gap needs to be minimized. Again the gap from the top and bottom do not have to be the same.

Don'ts-Do not try to shoot the bow with 80% or more let off. When you let the bow down from full draw and you feel like you have to push it to get it to come down you have excessive let off. I wouldn't want that for my optimum setting.

Lets work together in this thread to help one another get the cam in the optimum setting and listen to each others remarks to continue learning.

I will not be on the thread often but I will do what I can to help. Work gets in the way.


----------



## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

See Post #12 for a picture of the CAT cam timing position,
by Grey Eagle.

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=622832&referrerid=22477


----------



## cowboyarcher1 (Oct 11, 2006)

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=611716

Take a look at this and the link in this therad. . .


----------



## SPECTRE (Aug 20, 2003)

nuts&bolts said:


> See Post #12 for a picture of the CAT cam timing position,
> by Grey Eagle.
> 
> http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=622832&referrerid=22477


What he said. I have found this to be pretty accurate.

On the timing thing, the mod synch is pretty darn important. Otherwise the cams will "wrestle" each other.


----------



## gjstudt (Nov 14, 2005)

*Updates*

As for the cam timing. My cams do not match. I meant for it to be this way. If the cams match and I get just a little weak in the shot and creep just a touch the arrow will hit low at 40 yards about 3 inches. With the cams set just out of perfect timing I can pull into the wall about 1/16" and creep 1/4" and hit in the same spot at 40 yds. Therefore with the cams just out of perfect sync I have perfect nock travel. For a shooter this is what I prefer. I don't make perfect shots all day lone and I do want my bow to help if it can. That is why mine is set the way it is. I hope to have pictures tomorrow.


----------



## gjstudt (Nov 14, 2005)

*Pictures Added*

I have attached pictures of both the top and bottom cams on my bow. The gap between the cable on the end cable loop post you will notice is not the same. This setting in my promotes level nock travel all the time. That is what I like and what shoots the best.

You may also notice the brass nock sets on the string and their location. For some reason I have found that this Cam likes more weight that the Nitrous or Furious Cam to get the optimum setting. I also found to have more on the bottom than the top. Location of these may very from draw length to draw length as may the amount (weight).

I will try to get some pictures at full draw when I have another person around to help or when I get back to my shooting machine.

Let me know if you have any questions.


----------



## cowboyarcher1 (Oct 11, 2006)

Curious, how are you measuring nock travel? Through bare shaft testing?


----------



## gjstudt (Nov 14, 2005)

*Answer*

Cowboy,

I use a Hooter Shooter at 40 yards along with creep testing to determine perfect cam sync. AKA Nock Travel.

Works every time.

When I started I had a creep arrow hitting low about 5 inches from an arrow at my set draw length at 40 yds.

When I finished with the adjustments I can creep approx 1/4" and pull extra approx. 1/16" into the limb and all 3 draw settings at 40 yds now hit in the exact same spot within a quarter size group. Better if I could aim the machine better.

Thanks


----------



## SPECTRE (Aug 20, 2003)

gjstudt said:


> Cowboy,
> 
> I use a Hooter Shooter at 40 yards along with creep testing to determine perfect cam sync. AKA Nock Travel.
> 
> ...


So what you're saying is............. you adjust your cam synch to fit your particular shooting style..............:wink:

If you creep 1/4", how can you pull into the limb 1/16"??????


----------



## gjstudt (Nov 14, 2005)

*Un Confuse*

Spectre,

Not exactly.

I never choose to creep or pull excessively. I choose to shoot my bow at my said draw length each and every time. However, I am human. I sometimes get tired. I sometimes get excited when aiming. Therefore I set my bow up to hit in the middle which ever way that particular shot occurs.

Now if said properly what I mean is if you happen to creep just a little at my setting I will have the same impact. If I happen to pull a little hard a my setting I will have the same impact. When I shoot a great shoot at my draw length I will have the same impact. All good things.

As for my setting!! Wheel sync is wheel sync just the same. Not just for me.

Thanks


----------



## LeEarl (Jun 1, 2002)

gjstudt said:


> I have attached pictures of both the top and bottom cams on my bow. The gap between the cable on the end cable loop post you will notice is not the same. This setting in my promotes level nock travel all the time. That is what I like and what shoots the best.
> 
> You may also notice the brass nock sets on the string and their location. For some reason I have found that this Cam likes more weight that the Nitrous or Furious Cam to get the optimum setting. I also found to have more on the bottom than the top. Location of these may very from draw length to draw length as may the amount (weight).
> 
> ...


Well......

In your pictures your bottom cam is out of rotation :nod: You have it over rotated and this is why your cables do not match and your creep shot hits off... Mine used to be this way until I fixed it :wink:

The cams WILL rotate perfectly when you have the cams correctly. I have my Firecat setup right now where the mods touch exactly the same, the cables gap is VERY close to the same and the cam rotation is perfect. I also picked up 6fps by setting this up.

You also have you stop set for what looks to be like 40% letoff.. How does it feel at fulll draw? I would have NO valley with it set that way.....


----------



## gjstudt (Nov 14, 2005)

*Mis Understood*

LeEarl,

I have my cams this way on purpose. I want my cams this way. This is the way I get the great travel and sync.

Keep in mind you nocking point is not in the center of the bow. Therefore if you are adjusting you timing with your release or something attached to your nocking point you are not in the center of the bow. 

If you attach you release to center of the bow and then set your wheels to touch at the same time you will be much closer.

Agree less gap creates more speed. The CAT cam likes to be wrapped up tight.

I have about 65% let off at the setting I have. I do not want more than that. I also get more speed this way. My draw is only 28" AMO.

Thanks


----------



## dgirt (Jul 1, 2003)

I tried it and it works the way he has them set. The bow is more for giving in the shot weather I make a strong shot or a weak shot.


----------



## bowpro (May 31, 2002)

We have some pretty strong mechanics giving some good info here. In my quest to set up a Firecat after I played with DCM's Slayer, I got referrals for three of you. 
In my limited experience from the past almost every wheel or cam has liked the top cam a little tich ahead, I believe for the reasons GS explained. 
I think info sharing among all of us will be a really good thing. 
Thanks to each of you.


----------



## cowboyarcher1 (Oct 11, 2006)

I just wish I had strings for this bow. . . 

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=622518


----------



## Doc (Jun 10, 2003)

Is this opposite for lefties?:noidea:


----------



## gjstudt (Nov 14, 2005)

*Doc*



Doc said:


> Is this opposite for lefties?:noidea:


You will no difference in the items posted below LH v/s RH set up.

The cams well effect the arrows the same in this case.

Good Question


----------



## rock77 (Apr 7, 2007)

thanks for info gjstudt 
Doug set mine up friday using yours and his findings its smokin fast and easy on the creep and over pull.
I'll be down in March for the indoor shoot.
p.s. hope we don't have to auction off the targets! HA HA:darkbeer:


----------



## gjstudt (Nov 14, 2005)

*Good Deal*

I'm glad to hear you like the set up. We shot outside 3D this weekend and I just can't say enough about how well my bow shoots. It's been a long time since I had a bow aim this good and be this easy to shoot. 

I love my Slayr with the CAT cam. Great bow! Great fun!

See you at the Indoor Shoot in Anderson.


----------



## rock77 (Apr 7, 2007)

*Cat cams*



gjstudt said:


> I'm glad to hear you like the set up. We shot outside 3D this weekend and I just can't say enough about how well my bow shoots. It's been a long time since I had a bow aim this good and be this easy to shoot.
> 
> I love my Slayr with the CAT cam. Great bow! Great fun!
> 
> See you at the Indoor Shoot in Anderson.


Cool
I shot some indoor league 298 12x 292 16x with the Bengal finally bringing up
my scores and what do I do go get a different bow 
I did gain 45 fps thow.


----------



## gjstudt (Nov 14, 2005)

*Your not the 1st*

We archers like to change things even if they are going good. I'm guilty myself of that one. However, it is rare that I touch a bow now days if it is shooting good. I know what it takes to get a good one going and have confidence in the equipment. I assure you I don't make that mistake anymore.

Group, I will try to get some pictures of my bow at full draw. I had an chance to do it his weekend and I just forgot. Sorry.


----------



## gjstudt (Nov 14, 2005)

*Cam Pics at Full Draw*

These are the best pics I could get myself. It's a little tough to hold the bow and full draw and take pictures. Please keep in mind my modules are not full size. You will see that if your familiar with the cam and modules.

Let me know if you have any questions.


----------



## cowboyarcher1 (Oct 11, 2006)

Ya'll ought to read the last post in this thread:

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=611716


----------



## gjstudt (Nov 14, 2005)

*Testing?*

has anyone done anymore testing that they would like to share?


----------



## jcoop360 (Mar 20, 2006)

I just want to put my 2 cents in on what Studt has to say. I don't believe I would trust anyone on their advice on setting up a martin bow more than I would trust Gary. If he is saying this or that works best in his findings, I strongly recommend you at least try it because it will probably help. I have dissagreed with him before and quickly been proven wrong!!!! ha ha. I have a 30" draw Cat cam slayer, hopefully I can hook up with Gary and do some investigative tinkering and I will post the results.

Jon


----------



## Doc (Jun 10, 2003)

jcoop360 said:


> I just want to put my 2 cents in on what Studt has to say. I don't believe I would trust anyone on their advice on setting up a martin bow more than I would trust Gary. If he is saying this or that works best in his findings, I strongly recommend you at least try it because it will probably help. I have dissagreed with him before and quickly been proven wrong!!!! ha ha. I have a 30" draw Cat cam slayer, hopefully I can hook up with Gary and do some investigative tinkering and I will post the results.
> 
> Jon


Jon...no doubt Gary knows his stuff. I also have the CAT cam Slayer and started with his advice and went from there. Everybody has a preference on how they want a bow to feel, but maximum forgiveness is sought after by everybody...however you have to decide what your priorities are with this cam, because it allows you that adjustability. If you want to throw the fire, set it such. If you prefer a longer valley, then that can be accomplished, if you want to tease out your exact draw length, then that can be done also. I like the adjustability of this cam and have it set right now for the "feel" that I prefer.


----------



## gjstudt (Nov 14, 2005)

*Validation*

Group, I had a chance to mess with the Cat Cams again yesterday. I was wanting to try a few more things. However, after putting the bow in the Hooter Shooter again I realized it was exactly as I had left it. Still as good as I could get it. I guess I validated some of my own testing. Wheel sync still dead on. Arrow flight absolute money. Groups great.

I will be trying some more ideas in the future but not with this Slayr. It is just right. I will get another one to play with.

I hope you all have the same luck with the cam.

Let me know if anyone has learned anything they would like to share.


----------



## jcoop360 (Mar 20, 2006)

Doc said:


> Jon...no doubt Gary knows his stuff. I also have the CAT cam Slayer and started with his advice and went from there. Everybody has a preference on how they want a bow to feel, but maximum forgiveness is sought after by everybody...however you have to decide what your priorities are with this cam, because it allows you that adjustability. If you want to throw the fire, set it such. If you prefer a longer valley, then that can be accomplished, if you want to tease out your exact draw length, then that can be done also. I like the adjustability of this cam and have it set right now for the "feel" that I prefer.


Well said Doc, I just hope people don't miss the what Gary is trying to do with this thread and that is to help people get the Max out of their bows. I just wanted to make SURE people can trust what he has to say. 
Best of luck to you.

Jon


----------



## IDABOW (Mar 28, 2005)

Is anyones Firecat or Slayer at advertised specs? Firecat is supposed to be 33", and 7". Mine is 32 3/16" and 6 3/4" at 27" draw and 70 lbs. Does it need t be at these specs or not?


----------



## cowboyarcher1 (Oct 11, 2006)

Mine is at 32 3/8" and 7".


----------



## Jacko (Feb 1, 2003)

Thats what mine are at, 32 3/8 and 7", and from what I was told, that's where they're supposed to be. The catalog was printed early before finals!


----------



## cowboyarcher1 (Oct 11, 2006)

That's good to know! Thanks Jacko!


----------



## cowboyarcher1 (Oct 11, 2006)

I got some sppeds for ya'll. . . 

This is with a Nealy's custom string, no "speed-nocks", super-peep, d-lood, tied-on kisser, and a short center serving separate of the sts serving.

27.5" dl, 76lbs, 383gn arrow. . . 282fps. That seems about 20 fps short to me. 

Do I need to wist up my cables and add some nocks to get her closer to were she should be speed wise? Thanks guys!

Hoss


----------



## gjstudt (Nov 14, 2005)

*Yes, More Speed is there to get*

make sure you shorten the cables until you have the small gap as shown in the pictures in post # 6.

After that you will need to reset the poundage and draw stop. After you have that done then add the speed nocks to the string for another 4FPS or so. You will need to move the speed nocks around to find the perfect spot for the most speed. You should end up at approx. 305 FPS. if your draw is truely AMO 27.5.

Good luck and let me know how it works out.


----------



## IDABOW (Mar 28, 2005)

How do I get the cams synced to match each other? One cam is right at 1/8th, the other is closer to 1/4" from the post. One cam is slightly out of rotation.


----------



## cowboyarcher1 (Oct 11, 2006)

Shorten the cable that is wrapped around the post, and the gap between post and cable will increase. This should decrease the gap on the other cam.


----------



## bowhntr321 (Jan 22, 2003)

*mods*

gjstudt why are your mods shortened?


----------



## gjstudt (Nov 14, 2005)

*Answer*

I was screwing around trying to reduce weight in the cam in order to generate more speed. I reduced each mod approx. 100 grain in weight. This yeilded only 1 FPS. I will be reducing them further after I receive a back up set. You know just in case I go over the edge.

I would really like some Aluminum screws for the mods if anyone can make some. If I moved from a steel screw to an aluminum screw we could reduce the cam weight another 60 grains per cam (30grains per screw).

If you know anyone that could make some please let me know.


----------



## rock77 (Apr 7, 2007)

*right on*



gjstudt said:


> make sure you shorten the cables until you have the small gap as shown in the pictures in post # 6.
> 
> After that you will need to reset the poundage and draw stop. After you have that done then add the speed nocks to the string for another 4FPS or so. You will need to move the speed nocks around to find the perfect spot for the most speed. You should end up at approx. 305 FPS. if your draw is truely AMO 27.5.
> 
> Good luck and let me know how it works out.


gjstudt you are right on the money with this mine is at 27.5" dl 70.1 lbs. 354 grain arrow 305fps. 
I would think he could get that out of his.
one note though I think we had a little longer draw and then brought it down to fit me with the draw stop ie. shortening the valley
rock


----------



## gjstudt (Nov 14, 2005)

*good deal*

Rock 77 lets hope Cowboy has the same results when he gets his all tuned up.


----------



## canuck10-56 (May 14, 2003)

I set up a firecat for in the shop , here are the results

61.1 # @ 28 " dl 

Arrow fps
437 gr 263
396 gr 275
325 gr 297
308 gr 306


----------



## Elk4me (Nov 4, 2005)

I have been reading this thread for a week now and just got my Firecat today. Thanks for all the input fellas. :thumb:


----------



## rock77 (Apr 7, 2007)

Goodluck Elk4me
The draw cycle is a little tough but I switch from a Bengal to the firecat it was a drastic change the more I shoot mine the more I get use to it.
I am either getting more use to it or stronger but it has begun to feel smooth.
I did glue the STS rubber stopper on it kept falling off every 10 shots or so.
Give us a report back on what you experience with it.


----------



## Jacko (Feb 1, 2003)

I chronoed my Cat again today so I could make my sight tape, 63#, 29", 341gr UL Pro 22, 302fps! I think I'm done!


----------



## gjstudt (Nov 14, 2005)

*Victory among us*

Well group. 

I won the IBO Alabama shoot in the PMR class over the weekend. That was a great deal for Martin Archery and the new CAT cam.

My bow was set up just as you will see in all the posts I have made in this thread.

Martin Archery on Top

I shot a 413 with 21 11's.


----------



## rock77 (Apr 7, 2007)

*congrats G.*

Good shootin buddy keep it up!!!
see ya at Girt's or Gaston if you are going there.


----------



## dgirt (Jul 1, 2003)

Rock, I finished 8th in the SPM. I'll catch you later.


----------



## rock77 (Apr 7, 2007)

WOW
*I'm not worthy!!!*
Firecat is working great dgirt 
Thanks for all the help!


----------



## redman (Feb 22, 2003)

it looks like a martin slayer with nitrous b cams at 28 draw is faster then a fire cat with the new cat cam


----------



## gjstudt (Nov 14, 2005)

*Hmmm!*



redman said:


> it looks like a martin slayer with nitrous b cams at 28 draw is faster then a fire cat with the new cat cam



Redman, can you get an arrow that is marked with inches and draw you bow and have someone take a picture of the arrow while at full draw? I would like to see where the draw length marks are in relation to arrow rest holes in the riser. That will be the true mark as to which is faster. 

Keep in mind nothing makes a speed difference faster than the draw length.

Please do that post back. It would help us all.

I too had the Nitrous cams and they are indeed fast. This draw test will be a good comparison for a really true answer.


----------



## Grey Eagle (May 23, 2002)

First off, congrats Gary on your win this past weekend, awesome shooting :thumb:

I'm still waiting for a set of long mods for my Slayer, but I did spend a few hours this past weekend playing with the bow with the current mods. I adjusted the cam through a variety of draw stop positions (always making sure to bring the dl back to a reference of 30") to see what effect letoff had on speed. There is quite a variation available, and the results prove out that lower letoff will produce more speed. I also played a bit with cam positioning and speed nock amount and placement. Again, there is the ability to change speed incrememtally. And finally, I did notice that the bow performs better at higher poundage. Meaning that lower weight produced results not indicative of just an drop due to the reduced weight. The bow is not only faster at higher weights, but more effecient.

I'm still playing with some variables, so I won't post actual numbers until I'm finished. Hopefully by this weekend


----------



## gjstudt (Nov 14, 2005)

*Grey Eagle*

Thanks and good job on the statements.

It seems you are working down a great path. By all means please post your results and optimum settings. This will be great for all the long draw guys and I hope to pick up something myself. 

Good Luck and keep going. You have my attention.


----------



## TCR1 (Dec 22, 2004)

Grey Eagle said:


> And finally, I did notice that the bow performs better at higher poundage. Meaning that lower weight produced results not indicative of just an drop due to the reduced weight. The bow is not only faster at higher weights, but more effecient.


GE,
Is this styatement based off of different limb deflection rates, or off of the same limbs backed out? 

To be more clear, were the reduced weights achived by backing out the limb bolts or by changing to a lower limb deflection?

It seems to me that as long as the limbs are loaded up similarly and the arrow weight is realtive to the draw weight that speed and efficiency should be the same.

I haven't played any more with my Firecat as I am trying to get my field bow set up at the moment (I am converting my Rytera Triad to nitrous A cams).

However, I will be printing this thread off and comparing my Firecat to the cam pictures here to see what I find.

Ryan


----------



## Grey Eagle (May 23, 2002)

gjstudt said:


> Thanks and good job on the statements.
> 
> It seems you are working down a great path. By all means please post your results and optimum settings. This will be great for all the long draw guys and I hope to pick up something myself.
> 
> Good Luck and keep going. You have my attention.


Thanks Gary. I unfortunately didn't have time to complete all the testing I wanted to do, but my curiousity it peaked enough to carry this through on another date. 



TCR1 said:


> GE,
> Is this styatement based off of different limb deflection rates, or off of the same limbs backed out?
> 
> To be more clear, were the reduced weights achived by backing out the limb bolts or by changing to a lower limb deflection?
> ...


Ryan,

Same set of limbs, with weight reduction being achieved by backing off from fully seated position.

My comments are based solely on my prior experience with a number of different cams systems. What I was seeing on the weekend is not indicative of a simple reduction in speed due to weight reduction. But, as I said, I've got some more playing to do 

Cheers


----------



## IDABOW (Mar 28, 2005)

GE are you saying that the Cat's are faster towards 65% or closer to 80 % let off? I shoot my Ultratec at 65% and am more comfortable with that.


----------



## gjstudt (Nov 14, 2005)

*Less let off faster?*



IDABOW said:


> GE are you saying that the Cat's are faster towards 65% or closer to 80 % let off? I shoot my Ultratec at 65% and am more comfortable with that.


Group,

On the Cat cam and most all other cams less let off will be just a little faster at the exact same draw length.

Thanks


----------



## Grey Eagle (May 23, 2002)

Yes,

The lower the letoff, the faster the cam. And as Gary stated, this is not just applicable to the CAT cam, it is a general statement.

As I said earlier, I haven't finished playing, but as an example, there was a 3fps gain from 84% letoff to 79% letoff at 30"


----------



## IDABOW (Mar 28, 2005)

Great! I like the feel much better at 65%. Thanks!


----------



## Big Country (Apr 25, 2003)

Gary, or anybody that can answer........

After playing for a few hours with a Firecat, I have a couple of questions.

Twisting cables to load the cams not only adds poundage to the bow, but it adds up draw length pretty fast as well.

Changing a module setting to get where you need with DL is easy enough, but the only way to get the poundage back is to unwind the limb bolts farther. This is not an option that I personally like.

You could twist up the mainstring, but that just puts the cables back to the general area where they started, plus you are making A to A shorter, and brace height bigger.

My first question is.........when ordering my next Firecat, I am thinking that ordering limbs to max out 5 pounds less than I really want is a good guess?

Any thoughts on that one?

Second question........what does everyone think of the factory strings?

So far, they seem pretty good to me.......and this will be the first time in the last 50 bows that I might actually use the factory strings.


----------



## Big Country (Apr 25, 2003)

ttt


----------



## fasst (Oct 1, 2004)

Mitch.....I played with my firecat some Saturday, using some of Nuts&Bolts advice. He mentioned lining the small round holes in the cams up to be even with the limbs at rest. I twisted the string like he said, and played around with a few other things, and it did make the already smooth draw even smoother. My bow is a 70 pound unfortunately, so I will be turning it into a hunting only bow. I am shooting a 337 gr arrow n ow at 28.5 and 60 lbs to stay under the ASA radar. I don't like having to back the limbs down 10 pounds, but don't want to have to fill my arrow shafts with melted lead either....lol
BTW, I usually prefer a higher letoff, but with the Firecat, I adjusted dl and the draw stop to a little lower letoff and pull firm into the drawstop...makes for a nice, crisp release and I don't have to worry about creep while at full draw.


----------



## Po_Boy (Jun 3, 2006)

fasst said:


> Mitch.....I played with my firecat some Saturday, using some of Nuts&Bolts advice. He mentioned lining the small round holes in the cams up to be even with the limbs at rest. I twisted the string like he said, and played around with a few other things, and it did make the already smooth draw even smoother. My bow is a 70 pound unfortunately, so I will be turning it into a hunting only bow. I am shooting a 337 gr arrow n ow at 28.5 and 60 lbs to stay under the ASA radar. I don't like having to back the limbs down 10 pounds, but don't want to have to fill my arrow shafts with melted lead either....lol
> BTW, I usually prefer a higher letoff, but with the Firecat, I adjusted dl and the draw stop to a little lower letoff and pull firm into the drawstop...makes for a nice, crisp release and I don't have to worry about creep while at full draw.


I just got my slayer this weekend and with a 29" draw and 343 grain arrows I had to turn it down to about 50 lbs to keep it at 280 for ASA. At 60 I was 307 with the same arrow. With my 303 grain arrows I was 320 fps at 60 lbs.


----------



## gjstudt (Nov 14, 2005)

Big Country said:


> Gary, or anybody that can answer........
> 
> After playing for a few hours with a Firecat, I have a couple of questions.
> 
> ...



Big Country,
1st note you are correct in your statements. However please do not be afraid to back out the limb bolts. My bow will max at 72 pounds and I'm shooting it at 63 pounds.

1st question. You can order 5 lb less if you would like. Not a big deal.

2nd question. I always shoot Winners Choice however the 2008 strings are better than they have ever been from the factory. I would have no problems shooting them.

Hope this helps.


----------



## SliderzFire (Jan 8, 2008)

*1 Question*

What is the recommended Draw Stop usage with the Cat Cams? Can I set it at a 29" Draw Length and Set the Draw Stop at 28"? Will this give me better speed? How much Let off will I sacrifice with this?


----------



## gjstudt (Nov 14, 2005)

SliderzFire said:


> What is the recommended Draw Stop usage with the Cat Cams? Can I set it at a 29" Draw Length and Set the Draw Stop at 28"? Will this give me better speed? How much Let off will I sacrifice with this?


Yes! You can.

I have mine set up that way. I'm shooting the bow off the draw stop not off the back side of the modules. I recommend this method. You simple adjust the draw stop at your draw length. Then you can mess with the module at different locations to get your preferred let off. After you have the draw length set with the stop don't move it any more. Only move the module. The less let off you have the more speed you have by just a few FPS.


----------



## SliderzFire (Jan 8, 2008)

Beautiful, I will set it up this way tonight and Give it a try. I'm so glad this thread is out here....time to play a little and see what my best settings are! 

thanks Gary.


----------



## gjstudt (Nov 14, 2005)

SliderzFire said:


> What is the recommended Draw Stop usage with the Cat Cams? Can I set it at a 29" Draw Length and Set the Draw Stop at 28"? Will this give me better speed? How much Let off will I sacrifice with this?


Be sure to post back your results. Also maybe you haven't looked at the 1st couple post on this thread but if you do you will see that my bow is set up off the draw stop and the cables are not touching the modules.


----------



## SliderzFire (Jan 8, 2008)

I'll post them Up Thursday night when I get out to where I am able to Chrono...I know last night I got 278 fps with about a 28" drawstop; 28" Draw Length shooting a 365 grain arrow at 59#. I'll let you know what I come up with Late Thursday night. thanks again....


----------



## Pic (Sep 12, 2003)

I just got mine in on Monday...so Monday night, after refereeing, I set it up...out of the box, no other adjustments.

Went to the range last night...WOW, Sweeeeet shooting bow, no handshock, nice smooth draw (once I got used to it) and quiet...initial numbers are...29 inch draw, 60 lbs, 300 grain arrow, shooting 310 fps.

Now, I want to work on setting up the cams properly for best speed/accuracy


----------



## bowhntr321 (Jan 22, 2003)

*slayer*

well after reading everyones post i started playing with all the info posted here iam really happy with the results 59# 28"draw 394gr arrow 275fps and shoots great thanks for all the info:rock-on:


----------



## SliderzFire (Jan 8, 2008)

*a few more adjustments*

I set the draw length at 29" from 28". Kept the draw stop at 28". 60# draw weight....

same arrows (365 gr) at 292 FPS.... I tried the chrono with 304 grain arrows...results 308 FPS.... I'm more than happy with the results....


----------



## IDABOW (Mar 28, 2005)

I have my Firecat getting 291fps with 370 grns, or 282 with 390 grns. @ 70 lbs, and 66% let off 27" draw. String is loaded with loop, peep, and string shox. Cables have two leeches each. (I like QUIET)

Does that sound like pretty good speed?


----------



## gjstudt (Nov 14, 2005)

IDABOW said:


> I have my Firecat getting 291fps with 370 grns, or 282 with 390 grns. @ 70 lbs, and 66% let off 27" draw. String is loaded with loop, peep, and string shox. Cables have two leeches each. (I like QUIET)
> 
> Does that sound like pretty good speed?


With all the items on the string and cables you pretty close. You may be able to get a few feet more (3-6)by wrapping the wheels up nice and tight like the pictures at the beginning of this thread.


----------



## IDABOW (Mar 28, 2005)

Do I twist up the cables or the string or???


----------



## gjstudt (Nov 14, 2005)

IDABOW said:


> Do I twist up the cables or the string or???


to get more wrap you twist cables. The Pounds will increase and draw may need modified when finished depending out how much you go.

Please review the notes and pics at the beginning of the thread for me details.


----------



## Doc (Jun 10, 2003)

This CAT has some bite...I took it down to Texas this past weekend

Pics and details here--->*Slayer CAT vs Hawgs*


----------



## bowtroll (Mar 21, 2005)

Thanks for the tips guys....Gary...you are right on the money...I didnt know where to begin with this thing and with this thread I have it set up great...going to the chrony soon cuz I dont have one at home but its shooting great!!! Hopefully post up pics later...Troy


----------



## gjstudt (Nov 14, 2005)

*Hey Man!*



bowtroll said:


> Thanks for the tips guys....Gary...you are right on the money...I didnt know where to begin with this thing and with this thread I have it set up great...going to the chrony soon cuz I dont have one at home but its shooting great!!! Hopefully post up pics later...Troy


Troy,

It's great to hear from you. Your a great shooter to put my set ups to the test. Please let me know your AMO draw and speed.

I'm shooting a straight up 28" AMO (26 1/4" to the back hole in the riser) on my Slayr and getting 317 fps.

My bow shoots much better than anticipated. Just awesome. I just ended my streak of 116 unmarked 3D targets with zero 8's last weekend.

Keep me posted.
Gary


----------



## Jerry/NJ (Jan 17, 2003)

Outstanding thread! I'll be trying some of these tips on my Firecat


----------



## Jerry/NJ (Jan 17, 2003)

Just playing around with my FC and some of the info from this thread, I took my FC from 311 fps to 322 fps, less draw weight (60.8#), shorter DL and a hair less than 80% LO. I basically loaded up the bottom cam more. The "hump" seemed to smooth out a tad as well. 


Oops, and I moved the mods from #5 to #6 position.


----------



## gjstudt (Nov 14, 2005)

Jerry/NJ said:


> Just playing around with my FC and some of the info from this thread, I took my FC from 311 fps to 322 fps, less draw weight (60.8#), shorter DL and a hair less than 80% LO. I basically loaded up the bottom cam more. The "hump" seemed to smooth out a tad as well.
> 
> 
> Oops, and I moved the mods from #5 to #6 position.


very good deal. Thanks for keeping us posted.


----------



## bowtroll (Mar 21, 2005)

a tad under 26 inch true draw....64 pounds....338 gr. line jammer...292fps....

I mega stoked with this setup...now if the wind would just stop beatin me up out here I could shoot outside......shootin great at 20 inside...
Thanks again Gary!!!


----------



## jre4192 (Apr 25, 2005)

I'm lovin my slayer with cat cams. Set up at 26.75 inches and 62 pounds, it is sending my 318 grain ultralight 22's down range at 303 fps. The bow definately does not shoot like a 6 inch brace height bow is supposed to shoot. I really thought it would give me some trouble, but I'm really happy with the way it holds and performs after the shot.


----------



## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

bowtroll said:


> a tad under 26 inch true draw....64 pounds....338 gr. line jammer...292fps....
> 
> I mega stoked with this setup...now if the wind would just stop beatin me up out here I could shoot outside......shootin great at 20 inside...
> Thanks again Gary!!!


:sad: This is killing me.......... I shoot a tad under 26" also but I'd have to drop a few pounds down from 64.......
I should have took the 'Cat in Louisville and then begged for forgiveness!


----------



## jre4192 (Apr 25, 2005)

Kstigall said:


> :sad: This is killing me.......... I shoot a tad under 26" also but I'd have to drop a few pounds down from 64.......
> I should have took the 'Cat in Louisville and then begged for forgiveness!


I've always heard that it is easier to beg forgiveness than to ask permission :wink:


----------



## jcoop360 (Mar 20, 2006)

ok, ive got my cams synced as Gary has suggested and i'm shooting it off of the draw stop. I am shooting the LD mods and am in the longest slot. The bow felt so good when I got it all set up. I'm shooting a few shots through it in my garage at 5 yds. ( THIS BOW IS STUPID FAST, will post chrono results later). then all the sudden something didn't feel quite right. My draw stop had moved. I had over torqued it and striped out the nut. Just a note. DON'T OVER TORQUE THE DRAW STOP. I will keep my results posted as to speed and accuracy sometime this week.

Also, BIG THANKS to Gary for doing all of the hard work for us and figuring out this new cam and it's optimum settings. This really takes alot of the work out for us impatient (ME) archers who just want to shoot the dang bow and don't like to tinker much.

Cooper


----------



## bigbuckdn (Sep 19, 2007)

ok my slayer is the first bow I have had tuned by someone else as I am not familure with the cat cams. I know twisting up the cables will give me a little boost but reading all this I don't understand the drawstop and the letoff relationship I shoot 30'' 70lb I 370gr arrow getting 328 I was going to tweak the cables a little but didn't want to mess up anything and also wanted to change let off but do not know how never had a draw stop before
any help would be appricated thank you


----------



## Doc (Jun 10, 2003)

bigbuckdn said:


> ok my slayer is the first bow I have had tuned by someone else as I am not familure with the cat cams. I know twisting up the cables will give me a little boost but reading all this I don't understand the drawstop and the letoff relationship I shoot 30'' 70lb I 370gr arrow getting 328 I was going to tweak the cables a little but didn't want to mess up anything and also wanted to change let off but do not know how never had a draw stop before
> any help would be appricated thank you


If you shoot 30 inches and set your modules for 30", you should end up with 80% let-off with the draw stop all the way back. Now if you move that draw stop forward, you are going to stop the rotation of the cams early (at different places in the valley) resulting in less and less let-off.
Therefore a guy that shoots 28 inches normally could set the DL modules for 28.5 and move the draw stop peg so the draw stop contacts the limb at 28" (his DL) however he will have much less than 80% let-off.


----------



## IDABOW (Mar 28, 2005)

All right what am I doing wrong?

I twist up my cables and get them around 1/8" off the posts.
Now the "timing" holes are farther away from the limbs again!
So, I twist up the string and now the cables are farther away from the posts again!

Brace height is finally at 7" but ATA is only 31 15/16"s What gives? And finally with the 7" brace my STS is 1/4" away from the string and my rod is too short to extend it!

So what is more important wrapping the cable or aligning the dots close to the limbs?


----------



## Doc (Jun 10, 2003)

IDABOW said:


> All right what am I doing wrong?
> 
> I twist up my cables and get them around 1/8" off the posts.
> Now the "timing" holes are farther away from the limbs again!
> ...


Forget about those dots...get those cables wrapped.


----------



## jwe1965 (Mar 5, 2008)

iwrapped mine between 1/16 -1/8 now with 380 grain maxima at 70# 30 in draw getting 322


----------



## va archer (Jul 19, 2002)

I took Gary's advice and gained 9 fps from factory speeds. After twisting the cables, it lengthened my draw of course. I had to move the draw stop a tad and reduced the gain from 10 fps gain to a 9 fps gain. I can live with that. 

I'll send you a PM, Gary and explain all I did. Thanks.


----------



## frankensteel (Apr 5, 2006)

*Cat Cam Voodoo*

I was seriously considering buying a firecat but I dont want any part of all this black magic connected with adjusting and finding the so-called " sweet spot".
I'll stick with my single cam bow that tunes to the EXACT recommended spot in a few minutes of tinkering.


----------



## Doc (Jun 10, 2003)

frankensteel said:


> I was seriously considering buying a firecat but I dont want any part of all this black magic connected with adjusting and finding the so-called " sweet spot".
> I'll stick with my single cam bow that tunes to the EXACT recommended spot in a few minutes of tinkering.


Single cams have their sweet spot too...along with necessary adjustments for idler wheel. The beauty of this system is you can tailor the valley, DL and let-off to your needs...none of which you can do very well with a single cam.
However to each his own...I still have single cams


----------



## JawsDad (Dec 28, 2005)

I've been working on my Slayer CAT.. Here is where I've gotten to with my CAM rotation. My gut (and quite a gut it is) say it's over rotated. But, it shoots VERY nice. I have not tested it for any speeds or anything. I'm trying to tune it to feel of the draw/shot. My ATA/BH specs are pretty much spot on at this point.

Any comments on current settings? Click the image if you want to see a huge copy of the image..


----------



## steve hilliard (Jun 26, 2002)

JD, it looks good to me. If it feels good stay with it. Top Cam looks a little over rotated from mine but its personal choice


----------



## coelkbowhunter (Jul 16, 2006)

*Cat cams*

Alright boys.My new slayer with cat cams.if you look at your cams.do you see any place on the cams where the cables are rubbing.MY BOTTOM CAM SHOWS MARKS ON THE CAM FROM THE CABLE.AND THE CABLE IS RESTING ON THE CAM AT REST.This bow is a shooter and i love it.


----------



## Doc (Jun 10, 2003)

coelkbowhunter said:


> Alright boys.My new slayer with cat cams.if you look at your cams.do you see any place on the cams where the cables are rubbing.MY BOTTOM CAM SHOWS MARKS ON THE CAM FROM THE CABLE.AND THE CABLE IS RESTING ON THE CAM AT REST.This bow is a shooter and i love it.


1 of 2 fixes...offset the cables with the rod or move spacers.


----------



## gjstudt (Nov 14, 2005)

You should have a bigger gap on the top cam. Currently you are set up opposite of where I would have it.

I would leave the bottom cam alone and lengthen the cable attached to the top cam about 3 or 4 twists to create a slightly larger gap on the top cam.

Good luck


----------



## Kelly Johnson (May 22, 2005)

Gary,

Just so I'm clear here...
Regarding the modules, are you saying it can be beneficial to set the mod at say a 30" and shoot a true 29 with just the draw stop adjustment?


----------



## Doc (Jun 10, 2003)

Kelly Johnson said:


> Gary,
> 
> Just so I'm clear here...
> Regarding the modules, are you saying it can be beneficial to set the mod at say a 30" and shoot a true 29 with just the draw stop adjustment?


It will be faster and you can tailor your valley, DL and let-off (if you are seeking sub-80%) easier this way.


----------



## gjstudt (Nov 14, 2005)

Kelly Johnson said:


> Gary,
> 
> Just so I'm clear here...
> Regarding the modules, are you saying it can be beneficial to set the mod at say a 30" and shoot a true 29 with just the draw stop adjustment?


Yes! You would simply have more holding weight while aiming.


----------



## Kelly Johnson (May 22, 2005)

Great to hear and thanks for the quick responses gents.

I prefer 65% anyway but have had a hard time getting any valley into it at that point. This may be the trick and sounds like I may pick up a little speed as well.

I'm quickly falling in love with the cam system and I wasn't sure I would as I loved the Nitrous.

Great thread BTW...this is what AT is all about :thumbs_up:

On another note...while I agree the strings are a big step up from previous years they still seem like a heavy strand count. 
Anyone put a lighter custom string on one yet? Results if so?


----------



## Doc (Jun 10, 2003)

Kelly Johnson said:


> Great to hear and thanks for the quick responses gents.
> 
> I prefer 65% anyway but have had a hard time getting any valley into it at that point. This may be the trick and sounds like I may pick up a little speed as well.
> 
> ...


I have one (WC 8125), but have not tried it yet. I am getting 327 with the factory strings at 60# 28.5" and about 20 grains over minimum...no complaints.:wink:

If you want more valley, then you are going to need to take a couple twists out of the top cable.


----------



## igorts (Apr 18, 2007)

I changed strings on my Firecat, measured after, with 3 speednocks on top, 2 on bottom.
Bow is 59.2 lb (not maxed out ~ half turn), 28.5 DL, 303 grn arrow.
I could not believe my eyes.
365 grn arrow is at 308-311 fps.


----------



## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

igorts said:


> I changed strings on my Firecat, measured after, with 3 speednocks on top, 2 on bottom.
> Bow is 59.2 lb (not maxed out ~ half turn), 28.5 DL, 303 grn arrow.
> I could not believe my eyes.
> 365 grn arrow is at 308-311 fps.


Well Done, igorts.

You learn very quickly!

:becky:


----------



## igorts (Apr 18, 2007)

I'm lucky to have great teacher!
Thank you!


nuts&bolts said:


> Well Done, igorts.
> 
> You learn very quickly!
> 
> :becky:


----------



## Moparmatty (Jun 23, 2003)

Peak weight of my Slayer is 60 lbs.

Is it just me or does everyone else's CAT equipped bows increase 3-5lbs. of peak draw weight doing nothing more than switching in the long draw modules? This stumped me for over a half an hour tonight. I thought I totally screwed things up after twisting cables and the string trying to set the cam rotations. I finally put the regular mods back on, at the longest setting, ripped both cables and the string off, and checked their lengths vs. factory specs. Put it all back together set the gap between the cable peg and cable to 7/64" on the top and just under that on the bottom using an Allen key as a gauge. Checked peak weight and it was a hair over 61lbs with the limb bolts bottomed out. Backed the limb bolts out half a turn then she was bang on 60lbs. Re-installed long draw modules and there she was back at 65lbs. Took another 1.5 turns out of the limb bolts and now it's just a shade over 59lbs and the gap at the pegs and cables is not roughly 1/8" using an Allen key as a gauge.

It's hard to tell from everyone's pics what they have their gaps at. Can a few of you take some Allen keys and gauge the space and report back please. If it needs to be tighter than the 7/64" I can set it too now, I guess I'll have to add some more twists to the cables to get there. Then I'll be backing the limb bolt out some more. 

Am I on the right track or not? I'll take some pics tomorrow night and post them up so everyone can see where I'm at.

Also...... Other than Igorts, how many speed nocks is everyone using and how far from the cams are they located?


----------



## Grey Eagle (May 23, 2002)

Moparmatty said:


> Peak weight of my Slayer is 60 lbs.
> 
> Is it just me or does everyone else's CAT equipped bows increase 3-5lbs. of peak draw weight doing nothing more than switching in the long draw modules? This stumped me for over a half an hour tonight. I thought I totally screwed things up after twisting cables and the string trying to set the cam rotations. I finally put the regular mods back on, at the longest setting, ripped both cables and the string off, and checked their lengths vs. factory specs. Put it all back together set the gap between the cable peg and cable to 7/64" on the top and just under that on the bottom using an Allen key as a gauge. Checked peak weight and it was a hair over 61lbs with the limb bolts bottomed out. Backed the limb bolts out half a turn then she was bang on 60lbs. Re-installed long draw modules and there she was back at 65lbs. Took another 1.5 turns out of the limb bolts and now it's just a shade over 59lbs and the gap at the pegs and cables is not roughly 1/8" using an Allen key as a gauge.
> 
> ...


Matt,

It's a fairly common occurance for that to happen......... the weight gain with the use of the longer mods. Both my CAT bows did it. Not much different than there being a weight differential on bows with adjustable modules, the longer settings will produce more weight than the shorter settings. At least that has been my experience.

Cheers


----------



## TopCat77 (Dec 24, 2008)

*Tuning Firecat*

70lb bow maxed out. After twisting cables and poundaged has increased. Can you shoot at that poundage or do you have to back it down?

How many twists to wrap cables?


----------



## arrowaddict (Apr 9, 2006)

You have to back the weight down to where the draw is no more than 70 lbs. I think the number of twists in the cables is relative to where you start at, your trying to get a small gap between the post and the cable, so just keep twisting until you get there.


----------



## TopCat77 (Dec 24, 2008)

*Firecat tuning and adjustment*

Thanks for the info arrowaddict. One more question. About how fps will you gain if you change draw lenth 1 hole on mod, but leave draw stop the same?


----------



## IDABOW (Mar 28, 2005)

Anyone play with speednocks yet? I just new strings on. I put two on the top and bottom, 3" from each axle. I picked up 5 fps. Haven't had a chance to play with them yet. Ideas?


----------



## IDABOW (Mar 28, 2005)

I ended up with three nocks on the top and 4 nocks on the bottom. I'm still about 8 fps slower than the stock strings. I have 452X for string and cables, but, I've never seen a loss of more than 2-3 fps. I have the cables wrapped up tight. 

Just a peep and loop on the string, other than the nocks. 284 fps, @ 70 lbs, 270 grn arrow, # 3 slot, 27" ish draw. I had 292 fps with everything the same.

Any ideas?


----------



## igorts (Apr 18, 2007)

270grn arrow at 70lb bow? do i read it right?


----------



## IDABOW (Mar 28, 2005)

*Nope!*

I goofed! It should be 370 grns. It's still slow, though.


----------



## martinarchery27 (Mar 10, 2005)

*firecat*

how does work on the 09 models compare to 08's


----------



## JRH60 (Sep 10, 2002)

The cams themselves have not changed,firecat's only change was the ccs and cosmetics.09's should tune the same as 08's


----------



## Moparmatty (Jun 23, 2003)

*Slow Slayer!*

Here are the pics of my cam rotations and draw stop location. Bow was set at 59lbs and 16lbs holding weight (73% let off), and long draw mods maxed out on #9. It's only spitting out my 330gr CX Maximas at 302fps! My Mathews Apex at 60lbs and 30" cam spit out the same arrows at 290fps.

What am i doing wrong gentlemen? :noidea:

Do I need to twist the cables up some more? Top post is just a hair tighter than 1/16" and the bottom post is tighter than that. Measured using a 1/16" allen key as a spacer.

Thanks,


----------



## igorts (Apr 18, 2007)

lower let-off, use speed-nocks.


----------



## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

igorts said:


> lower let-off, use speed-nocks.


I agree.

Basically,
you have to increase the holding weight with the draw stop
by adjusting the draw stop position.

When you adjust the draw stop closer to the center of the bow,
then 2 things happen:

a) holding weight INCREASES

and

b) the bow DL also grows slightly.



So,
to compensate for the slightly longer DL,
ADD twists to the bowstring to shorten the DL a skosh,
to get the DL back to where you want it.


----------



## JawsDad (Dec 28, 2005)

but even at that 73% letoff shouldn't he be getting more than 302? I realize it's "the computer" but OT2 puts that config in the high 320's.

I was getting more than 302 with 29" DL and a slightly heavier arrow with my Slayer last year.


----------



## Moparmatty (Jun 23, 2003)

For a bow that has an IBO spec of 350fps I am a little disappointed.

I'm going to play around a bit right now and see if I can get it at least respectable performance wise.


----------



## cmherrmann (Jun 1, 2004)

Moparmatty said:


> For a bow that has an IBO spec of 350fps I am a little disappointed.
> 
> I'm going to play around a bit right now and see if I can get it at least respectable performance wise.


IBO is 335 to 345, I was getting very good speeds with mine at 28.5 draw, 60# and 350 grain arrow. According to my specs I should of been below 300 and I was at 304 to 305 consistently. Just takes some playing with the cams and the speed nocks.

What is your setup maybe we can help with some suggestions.


----------



## Grey Eagle (May 23, 2002)

Moparmatty said:


> For a bow that has an IBO spec of 350fps I am a little disappointed.
> 
> I'm going to play around a bit right now and see if I can get it at least respectable performance wise.


You said you are shooting it in the #9 slot, 31" dl correct?

Matt, what is the ATA and brace on your bow.


----------



## Moparmatty (Jun 23, 2003)

cmherrmann said:


> IBO is 335 to 345, I was getting very good speeds with mine at 28.5 draw, 60# and 350 grain arrow. According to my specs I should of been below 300 and I was at 304 to 305 consistently. Just takes some playing with the cams and the speed nocks.
> 
> What is your setup maybe we can help with some suggestions.


Slayer was 350.

Set-up in post above.

New set-up below.



Grey Eagle said:


> You said you are shooting it in the #9 slot, 31" dl correct?
> 
> Matt, what is the ATA and brace on your bow.


#9 is correct Dennis.

Here's where we're currently at:
60lbs. draw weight
65% let-off (21lbs holding weight)
ATA = 36-1/32"
Brace height = 6-1/32" measured from the deepest part of the grip to the back of the string.
I put the string and cables back to factory specs. (Within reason)
Timed the cams at rest to be exactly the same.
No speed nocks as I don't have any on hand.

307fps.


----------



## Rockyhud (Sep 17, 2008)

*Please excuse my naivety...*

but I have what may be considered a dumb question by more experienced compound bow users.

I stumbled on this thread last night and was reading it, from start to finish, with great interest as I'm also one of those who likes to tinker with things to see if I can make them better, faster, etc. After reading the posts and checking the photos I decided I'd try to post pics of my cams and their settings to get you guys impression and advice on whether I can or need to make any adjustments to get the best performance. I know the strings are getting close to needing to be replaced so I thought what better time to do this.

Currently it's set for 28.5-inch draw length and 66-67 lb draw weight. The letoff is set to 80% or close to that I'm guessing. I'm shooting CX Terminator Lite 6075 with 100 gr field points or Magnum Stringers along with 4-inch wraps and Blazers, making the arrows weigh about 410 gr total.

Now, the dumb question. When everyone talks about twisting the strings or cables I'm presuming this requires the bow to be put in a bow press to take the tension off the strings and cables. Is that correct? I don't have one so is there any way I can do this without one or without letting out the limb bolts to take tension off the limbs?

Here are my cams (I hope the pics get attached OK) 8>O


----------



## Doc (Jun 10, 2003)

Rocky you will need to either press the bow or back out the limb bolts approximately 12-14 turns to take enough tension off the limbs to twist. These are the only 2 safe ways to do this.


----------



## JawsDad (Dec 28, 2005)

Yes, you can back the tension off the limbs on Martin bows. Just alternate taking a couple of turns on each limb. You will be able to see light start to show through the barrel nuts in the riser. When you see it get to that point, you're pretty much there. You can then pull the cables off and go twisting..


Couple of tips: 1) Take pictures of how everything is assembled, so if you do take it apart, you can get it back together and route the cables accurately. 2) Make sure you measure things before you start (ATA, BH, tiller, etc).


----------



## Rockyhud (Sep 17, 2008)

*One more question*

Thanks for the quick response guys. Now, what do you think of the cam settings? Is the gap between the string and post OK? Should I make any changes to either cam? The bow seems to be shooting quite nice as it is but if I can wring out a little more performance without making it less pleasurable to shoot that would be great. Also, considering this is first a hunting bow then second a recreational bow (to shoot in our back yard and 3D for fun) what do you recommend for new strings and cables? I contacted John Mraz of Buck Nasty strings and he offers BCY 8125, BCY 452x, Brownell X-cel. Being relatively new to compound bows I'm not sure what would be best, although he suggested the 452x. Thanks again.

Steve


----------



## Doc (Jun 10, 2003)

The best settings I have found are
0.07 inch gap according to my micrometer. http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=660870


----------



## Moparmatty (Jun 23, 2003)

I've got the stock strings here. Perhaps I'll try putting them on and seeing what happens. I also have a new set of 452X strings coming for it. Not sure what material strings are on it right now. Jaws knows though.

Doc. Thanks for posting your other thread.

Did you ever do any testing after you got the aftermarket strings put on? What are your thought on speed nock numbers and location?


----------



## JawsDad (Dec 28, 2005)

I don't remember off the top of the old noggin.. I'm an equal opportunity offender and use just about every string maker out there.. I think those are Xtreme Strings and 452x (if they are Silver/Black).


I dug through and found these pictures.. I'm pretty sure this is where I ended up with them being set.

Top Cam









Bottom Cam


----------



## Moparmatty (Jun 23, 2003)

I forgot to ask in my previous posts:

Are we setting the tiller even or just leaving the limb bolts at the same amount of turns? With the bottom cam rotated more than the top the tiller is off.


----------



## Grey Eagle (May 23, 2002)

Moparmatty said:


> #9 is correct Dennis.
> 
> Here's where we're currently at:
> 60lbs. draw weight
> ...


Matt,

That does seem low. I sold another Slayer a few weeks ago, I outfitted it with 452X string and cables, and installed I believe 3 speed nocks at each end. The new owner has indicated to me that he is getting 292fps at 59lbs, 310gr arrow, and 28" draw. Which is about where I would expect that bow to be.

And I seem to recall that when I had a Slayer set up last summer, with similar specs to yours, I was getting significantly more speed.

The speed nocks will add several fps, you'll need to play with placement a bit. And as has been indicated to you, cam rotation is critical. Even a small amount will make a difference.

I'd also be tempted to tear the cams off the bow, make sure they spin freely on the axles, and that there is not too much shim pressure in the limb fork.


----------



## Moparmatty (Jun 23, 2003)

Grey Eagle said:


> Matt,
> 
> That does seem low. I sold another Slayer a few weeks ago, I outfitted it with 452X string and cables, and installed I believe 3 speed nocks at each end. The new owner has indicated to me that he is getting 292fps at 59lbs, 310gr arrow, and 28" draw. Which is about where I would expect that bow to be.
> 
> ...


Cams spin nice and free.

Got a starting measurement for speed nock location?

Hopefully i can get this figured out.


----------



## thunderbolt (Oct 11, 2002)

Grey Eagle said:


> Matt,
> 
> That does seem low. I sold another Slayer a few weeks ago, I outfitted it with 452X string and cables, and installed I believe 3 speed nocks at each end. The new owner has indicated to me that he is getting 292fps at 59lbs, 310gr arrow, and 28" draw. Which is about where I would expect that bow to be.
> 
> ...


I think I know where that bow is


----------



## Grey Eagle (May 23, 2002)

Moparmatty said:


> Cams spin nice and free.
> 
> Got a starting measurement for speed nock location?
> 
> Hopefully i can get this figured out.


I seem to think about 2" on the bottom cam, and 1ish on the top. But I know there are folks that are placing them farther out than that.

Any chance that either your scale, or your chrony is a tad out? I would expect you to be in the 320's with that setup. In fact I know that red riser was shooting in that range last summer 



thunderbolt said:


> I think I know where that bow is


Hey Tbolt  how's the bow shooting for you now?


----------



## Moparmatty (Jun 23, 2003)

Grey Eagle said:


> I seem to think about 2" on the bottom cam, and 1ish on the top. But I know there are folks that are placing them farther out than that.
> 
> Any chance that either your scale, or your chrony is a tad out? I would expect you to be in the 320's with that setup. In fact I know that red riser was shooting in that range last summer
> 
> ...


Where are your measurements taken from Dennis for the speed nocks?

My scale is bang on to the Easton digital scale we were tech'd with at Caledon a few weeks ago.

My Chrony speeds for my Apex match up (287fps.) with the ones I got when I tested it out down at the Bow Shop with their chrony (286fps.). So I don't think my Chrony's out of wack. I was thinking it maybe out when I first started out testing the Slayer. That's why I re-tested it with the Apex.


----------



## thunderbolt (Oct 11, 2002)

Grey Eagle said:


> Hey Tbolt  how's the bow shooting for you now?


Haven't shot more than 20 yards yet, but so far impressed!


----------



## Smarta Way (Mar 20, 2009)

I have a firecat. approx how many turns on the cable are we talking? Im thinking my draw length is a little short right now, how much will this change it?

thx


----------



## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

Smarta Way said:


> I have a firecat. approx how many turns on the cable are we talking? Im thinking my draw length is a little short right now, how much will this change it?
> 
> thx


By tightening/shortening the cables the draw length will increase a bit. You may add many twists to the cables to get them to their optimum setting.


----------



## Smarta Way (Mar 20, 2009)

thanks for your reply. this will affect my letoff and draw length. will it affect draw weight much?


----------



## Smarta Way (Mar 20, 2009)

how much do you think it will increase draw weight with this setup?


----------



## cmherrmann (Jun 1, 2004)

Only a few #


----------



## novich69 (Dec 1, 2006)

Right now my gap is zero,do I twist the cables up or untwist to get a little gap?


----------



## cmherrmann (Jun 1, 2004)

novich69 said:


> Right now my gap is zero,do I twist the cables up or untwist to get a little gap?


I believe untwist if memory servers me right.


----------



## spmnlvr (Apr 28, 2009)

*long island firecat help*

Does anyone have a recommendation for someone who can do these kinds of adjustment to my 09 firecat. I'm from long island. this stuff is way over my head and I don't have the equipment. How much does this "tinkering" cost approximatly


----------



## Z-Rider (Jul 23, 2007)

Well I finally got my Firecat shooting like I wanted. Wrapped the cams per this thread.

Bow specs are: 2008 Firecat Pro X set at 60#, draw length set at 27.5" with the draw stop, mods set at 28", 315 gr. 26" arrow shooting 296 fps w/ stock strings, loop and 1/4" Meta peep.

I am very satisfied with this! Thanks for all the info that everyone has provided.


----------



## OCD (Jan 19, 2008)

Awesome thread guys!


----------



## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Pardon my intrusion. Long thread as this is I haven't read every post. I've set up the FireCat and Slayer much like I would set up a Hoyt; Bottom cam - string laying in cam groove nicely, adjust top cam so string lays nicely in groove (draw stop timing in bow tuning forum). I set the bottom draw stop peg as per Martin and double check cam/string relationship. All draw smoothly, little to no recoil and shoot lights out. The Slayer, awesome bow, surprises me as it is quiet and fast even turned down (58 lbs, 29" draw, 375 gr arrow for 281 fps).


----------



## 25years3Martins (Jun 19, 2009)

*Warthog Noise???*

Hey all you smart people...and I'm not being sarcastic! My Warthog was slow, now it's fast...but loud! help?


----------



## 25years3Martins (Jun 19, 2009)

*More specific...*

it was slow and quiet, now it is fast and loud... any ideas?


----------



## gbear (May 30, 2009)

my cat was set up pretty good when i got it, but i had to have the new cam/mod upgrade done (mods cutting the serving) and the shop here left a big gap in the cables. anyway, when I tighten the cables do i need to add twist to the main string also or decrease twist to the main string at the same time. I might have just missed it in the thread.
thanks.


----------



## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

gbear said:


> my cat was set up pretty good when i got it, but i had to have the new cam/mod upgrade done (mods cutting the serving) and the shop here left a big gap in the cables. anyway, when I tighten the cables do i need to add twist to the main string also or decrease twist to the main string at the same time. I might have just missed it in the thread.
> thanks.


- Shortening the cables by twisting can be off set by increasing the twist in the shooting string.

I suspect that you do not want to twist the string. When you twist the cables you are shortening your draw length. 
1) Get your cams "wrapped up" by increasing twist in the cables.
2) Tweak your draw stop and/or change the draw module setting to get your draw length correct. Note: It doesn't take much movement of the draw stop to really change the let-off so be prepared.

Let's say you have a 28" draw. You may end up with the draw module set on 27.5" or 28.5". This is fine because you have the draw stop set where the let-off and cam roll feels good to you. Play with the draw stop to get the feel you like. I took all the "hump" out of mine and not a lot of let-off.

You may want to take a turn or 2 off the limbs while you're experimenting if you feel you shoot a fairly heavy amount of draw weight. Of course a "fairly heavy amount" is different for each archer.


----------



## gbear (May 30, 2009)

*hey thanks*

I had to put 15 wraps in each cable just to get to .125". I don't really want to go farther until i check the draw weight. I think if i keep going i will end up shooting with the screws backed way out to get to down to 60.
Now i need to go get a scale to check draw weight, because it stacked up fast. I forgot to mention before that the shop left the bow at 55#. Now with all the wrapping i did I think it is over 60, so i'm not going to shoot until i'm sure not to overstress the limbs.
I just want to understand correctly, you said" Shortening the cables by twisting can be off set by increasing the twist in the shooting string."
So if I add twist to the string, I add draw length, is that correct? Last night while studying the cams this is the conclusion i came to. 
Thanks again for your help. 

25years3martins,
are you still using the STS on the warthog? What is your speed and specs now? Did you end up with the CAT 2 cams on yours? Are they set with the minimum gap as in this thread?


----------



## IDABOW (Mar 28, 2005)

*Be Careful!*

Get a scale before you do anything! I wrapped up the cables on the Cat's. 4H limbs were hitting 77 lbs, with the limb bolts bottomed out! Also check to make sure the ATA and Brace are on. You don't want to pre load the limbs too much.

When you twist the cables you are increasing drawlength, not shortening it. The more you twist it the more it grows per slot. Twisting your string will decrease drawlength, and poundage.

Pug advised a .80 gap, no less when I was on the phone with him last year.


----------



## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

IDABOW said:


> Get a scale before you do anything! I wrapped up the cables on the Cat's. 4H limbs were hitting 77 lbs, with the limb bolts bottomed out! Also check to make sure the ATA and Brace are on. You don't want to pre load the limbs too much.
> 
> When you twist the cables you are increasing drawlength, not shortening it. The more you twist it the more it grows per slot. Twisting your string will decrease drawlength, and poundage.
> 
> Pug advised a .80 gap, no less when I was on the phone with him last year.


.8? Did you mean to say 1/8" gap?


----------



## gbear (May 30, 2009)

*I think he meant .080"*

80 thousandths


----------



## IDABOW (Mar 28, 2005)

yes, .080 thousandths.


----------



## 25years3Martins (Jun 19, 2009)

I am @ roughly 72 pounds, 30" draw 328 FPS 80% let off. There is a slight vibration when I shoot which was never there before and definitely noise... I have tightened everything down with Loc-tight (blue) and nothing appears to be loose.

I had Martin set the gap (per this thread) for optimal speed and mine looks identical to the pics on here. I do have 4 speed knocks on mine top and bottom as the thread here listed 4 top 3 bottom.

someone suggested in a PM that a 385 grain arrow could be the problem... I don't see how, but am open for suggestions. I really don't want to go buy more arrows...




gbear said:


> I had to put 15 wraps in each cable just to get to .125". I don't really want to go farther until i check the draw weight. I think if i keep going i will end up shooting with the screws backed way out to get to down to 60.
> Now i need to go get a scale to check draw weight, because it stacked up fast. I forgot to mention before that the shop left the bow at 55#. Now with all the wrapping i did I think it is over 60, so i'm not going to shoot until i'm sure not to overstress the limbs.
> I just want to understand correctly, you said" Shortening the cables by twisting can be off set by increasing the twist in the shooting string."
> So if I add twist to the string, I add draw length, is that correct? Last night while studying the cams this is the conclusion i came to.
> ...


----------



## gbear (May 30, 2009)

*slightly off subject but related to my previous post*

I picked up a scale this weekend, decided to put it on my Rage first:mg:it was pulling +80#. No wonder i was feeling weak and puny. it is rated at 65#. I rally was thinking that something was wrong with me that i could pull 60# on one bow and have so much trouble with 65# on another.
So of course the FireCat felt light which it was, it was still down around 50. So i added a few more twists and it's about 62# now. the BH and the ATA are right at spec. 
So here's a question, I gather that some of you (like Kstigall)have to twist the cams up to something above the rating of the bow and then just back the limbs out to a safe draw weight. Just trying to clarify, because if i go to the .080, I'll probalby be approachign 70#. I probably only need to do about <5 twists to get there.


now i just need to shoot it. just got back into town last night.


----------



## IDABOW (Mar 28, 2005)

My limbs are 4H. I just received my new string set the other day. I put the string and cables on to stock length. It made 72 1/2 -73 lbs on my scale with the limb bolts bottomed out. 

What are your limb deflections? What's the bow rated for, 45 -60, 55-70?

A couple of pounds over the max is okay, but not too much. 

IF you twist it, make sure to back out the limb bolts to bring the ATA/Brace/Poundage back in line.


----------



## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

gbear said:


> I picked up a scale this weekend, decided to put it on my Rage first:mg:it was pulling +80#. No wonder i was feeling weak and puny. it is rated at 65#. I rally was thinking that something was wrong with me that i could pull 60# on one bow and have so much trouble with 65# on another.
> So of course the FireCat felt light which it was, it was still down around 50. So i added a few more twists and it's about 62# now. the BH and the ATA are right at spec.
> So here's a question, I gather that some of you (like Kstigall)have to twist the cams up to something above the rating of the bow and then just back the limbs out to a safe draw weight. Just trying to clarify, because if i go to the .080, I'll probalby be approachign 70#. I probably only need to do about <5 twists to get there.
> 
> ...


I have more than 1/8th inch gap............ But I also put more than a few twists in the string. I wouldn't worry about getting it "perfect".


----------



## fantarain (Jun 13, 2008)

what's the location of your speed nocks? I know it may depend on the dl and dw of your bow, but could you give me some starting point? Thanks!



gjstudt said:


> I have attached pictures of both the top and bottom cams on my bow. The gap between the cable on the end cable loop post you will notice is not the same. This setting in my promotes level nock travel all the time. That is what I like and what shoots the best.
> 
> You may also notice the brass nock sets on the string and their location. For some reason I have found that this Cam likes more weight that the Nitrous or Furious Cam to get the optimum setting. I also found to have more on the bottom than the top. Location of these may very from draw length to draw length as may the amount (weight).
> 
> ...


----------



## fridge24 (Nov 19, 2008)

dgirt said:


> I tried it and it works the way he has them set. The bow is more for giving in the shot weather I make a strong shot or a weak shot.


what do you mean strong shot or weak shot?


----------



## Pearson Guy (Jan 4, 2008)

Dumb question - 29" DL - what number on the cam should my module be set at? I have the standard module w/ positions 1-7. 

Thanks!


----------



## gbear (May 30, 2009)

assuming it's a firecat like in your sig, then it is position 7
then each number down from there shortens it 1/2"

Long draw mod has positions 8 and 9 only, you get 29.5" and 30" respectively.


----------



## Pearson Guy (Jan 4, 2008)

That's what I was looking for. THANK YOU!!


----------



## gbear (May 30, 2009)

someone suggested in a PM that a 385 grain arrow could be the problem... I don't see how, but am open for suggestions. I really don't want to go buy more arrows...[/QUOTE]

I'm not sure, but i'd say if you have a heavy arrow to throw then you might try that. When i was setting up the cat again, i had some ancient eastons that i was throwing to break in the string, and i thought then that that heavy arrow felt a lot smoother on the shot. I haven't gotten around to weighting them, but the FP are 145g
The CX shaft that i'm using is 406g with a 100g tip, @60# draw.
Got a 70# Hog on the way, should be here monday.
Let us know what you find out.

Of course you could always put a bunch of limbsavers on it.  Yeh, get a set from each manufacturer, put em all on, that should work.JK!


----------



## rjd (Dec 3, 2005)

Okay a couple of questions. 08 Firecat with 09 limbs need to get to the draw lenght set to roughly 27.5" which hole number 4 . I have the 1/8" gap at that I need. Just for giggles we shot it throw the chrono at 60# 3 shot average was 253fps. With the limb bolts bottomed out roughly 73# made it all the way up to a 279 fps. Just a d-loop the factor speed nocks on the string. Whisker bisquit rest. 28 1/2 " Gold tip XT Hunters blazers with a 4" wrap, 100 grain field tip. Where should I start? Shots really nice groups now but it should get better. I'm already liken the bow.I'll be getting new strings made in the next couple days.


----------



## gbear (May 30, 2009)

rjd said:


> Okay a couple of questions. 08 Firecat with 09 limbs need to get to the draw lenght set to roughly 27.5" which hole number 4 . I have the 1/8" gap at that I need. Just for giggles we shot it throw the chrono at 60# 3 shot average was 253fps. With the limb bolts bottomed out roughly 73# made it all the way up to a 279 fps. Just a d-loop the factor speed nocks on the string. Whisker bisquit rest. 28 1/2 " Gold tip XT Hunters blazers with a 4" wrap, 100 grain field tip. Where should I start? Shots really nice groups now but it should get better. I'm already liken the bow.I'll be getting new strings made in the next couple days.


You're gonna like the cat a lot. It is one sweet bow.
First off, what is your arrow weight? The gap you measured is it from the post to the cable or the gap between the cables where they pass close by? My 08 firecat 60# 30" 277g arrow 322 fps. gap measured between the cables is .084". with my hunting arrow it is 279fps 406g. 3-4" groups at 70 yds with broadheads, fixed blade, limbdriver rest.


----------



## rjd (Dec 3, 2005)

I measured it from the post to the cable. 1/8" used a allen wrench to measure. Oh I'm impressed with the bow if it doesn't get any faster. It is a nice bow to shot . I cann't what to put my good sight and rest on it . Guess I'll have to get me one of those "Martin for Life" stickers.


----------



## gbear (May 30, 2009)

rjd said:


> I measured it from the post to the cable. 1/8" used a allen wrench to measure. Oh I'm impressed with the bow if it doesn't get any faster. It is a nice bow to shot . I cann't what to put my good sight and rest on it . Guess I'll have to get me one of those "Martin for Life" stickers.


Glad you like it. The firecat has ruined me. It is such a sweet bow that when i pick up my backup bow now, if feels awkward, and i feel like a novice shooting it.
Is your bow properly tuned? Walkback, modified walkback, bareshaft, paper, broadhead, anything? I looked at the XT arrow selection chart and it shows that at your 73# that your arrow is underspined, alot. If you have tuning problems then you have 3 options, switch to 7595 shaft, use 85g tip, or decrease draw weight. From their website it shows your arrow weighing 345g. So you should have better than 279 at 73#. You just need to find the sweet spot setting for everything. Add a speed button, 1 at a time and shoot thru the chrony and see what changes. You might just need another 1/2 twist in the cables or just one of them. Experiment.


----------



## gbear (May 30, 2009)

*one other thing*

make sure your not overdrawn--you don't want any more than 80% let off, I think i'd shoot for about 75% but that is just me. You'll know if you have more than 80% if you let the bow down from full draw slowly and if feels as if you are in a valley holding nothing then the cams catch and it want to jerk out of your hand, it also feels like you have to push it off of full draw. Adjust draw stop about 1/16" at a time till that feeling of pushing it goes away.
Safety tip: nock an arrow when you do this.


----------



## 25years3Martins (Jun 19, 2009)

*Noise and vibration*



25years3Martins said:


> I am @ roughly 72 pounds, 30" draw 328 FPS 80% let off. There is a slight vibration when I shoot which was never there before and definitely noise... I have tightened everything down with Loc-tight (blue) and nothing appears to be loose.
> 
> I had Martin set the gap (per this thread) for optimal speed and mine looks identical to the pics on here. I do have 4 speed knocks on mine top and bottom as the thread here listed 4 top 3 bottom.
> 
> someone suggested in a PM that a 385 grain arrow could be the problem... I don't see how, but am open for suggestions. I really don't want to go buy more arrows...


was my limb, that was cracked!!! Martin of course has taken care of it, and I am shooting 331FPS in my fastest chrono, consistently 325FPS. The good news is no more vibration or noise!!! YAHOO!!!!!!!:darkbeer:


----------



## 25years3Martins (Jun 19, 2009)

*great advice*



gbear said:


> make sure your not overdrawn--you don't want any more than 80% let off, I think i'd shoot for about 75% but that is just me. You'll know if you have more than 80% if you let the bow down from full draw slowly and if feels as if you are in a valley holding nothing then the cams catch and it want to jerk out of your hand, it also feels like you have to push it off of full draw. Adjust draw stop about 1/16" at a time till that feeling of pushing it goes away.
> Safety tip: nock an arrow when you do this.


Apparently to my buds @ sportsmens...this is the summer of "dry fires", I personally don't understand it, but putting an arrow in there will eliminate that possibility.:darkbeer:


----------



## rjd (Dec 3, 2005)

Which way do you move the draw stop to decrease the let off? As Far as tuning I'll probably what till th new strings. I just couldn't have it sitting there and not try a few arrows. I'll probably only shot it at 65# of draw weight.


----------



## 25years3Martins (Jun 19, 2009)

*The Warthog has a + and a - on each side*



rjd said:


> Which way do you move the draw stop to decrease the let off? As Far as tuning I'll probably what till th new strings. I just couldn't have it sitting there and not try a few arrows. I'll probably only shot it at 65# of draw weight.


Not sure which model you are shooting, so I don't want to sound like I know what I'm talking about...LOL...:darkbeer:


----------



## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

rjd said:


> Which way do you move the draw stop to decrease the let off? As Far as tuning I'll probably what till th new strings. I just couldn't have it sitting there and not try a few arrows. I'll probably only shot it at 65# of draw weight.


Decreasing letoff percentage,
means you want more holding weight.

More holding weight,
means you move the draw stop closer to the bow riser
or move the draw stop in the slot closer to the grip of the bow.

This will INCREASE the holding weight,
which means you will be holding more lbs at full draw.

This also has a side effect.

The draw length will also shorten slightly.


----------



## fowl_natured (Jul 24, 2009)

I have been reading this thread about getting maximum performance from bows with these CAT cam systems. Everyone has had alot of great input but would like to run some numbers by everyone to see what you think I should do. First I will give you my specs. 09' Firecat 62 lbs., 28 inch draw length throwing a 303 gr. arrow @ 311 fps consistently and a 330 gr. @ 297 fps bare string. 

This bow has custom 452X strings and cables and 2 speed nocks top and bottom. Everyones input and personal preferences states that the cams like to be wrapped? I have equal gaps between cables top and bottom measuring 1/8th inch. 

My question is.......My speed numbers are not bad already and my cams have room to be wrapped a little more to about .070"-.080". In anyones opinion do you believe that by me wrapping them a little more that I could increase my speed? Another question I have is noise? By wrapping up the cams more will I be increasing bow noise? Any info would be greatly appreciated, Thanks


----------



## jim p (Oct 29, 2003)

This is one of the best threads that I have seen in days. It makes me want to go out and get a bow with the cat cams just so that I can play with them. It is great to get more speed but the forgiveness or creep tuning is just fantastic. You should have kept this secret now you are going to have more competition at the shoots.

But thanks for helping everyone with your knowledge.


----------



## fowl_natured (Jul 24, 2009)

I have been reading this thread about getting maximum performance from bows with these CAT cam systems. Everyone has had alot of great input but would like to run some numbers by everyone to see what you think I should do. First I will give you my specs. 09' Firecat 62 lbs., 28 inch draw length throwing a 303 gr. arrow @ 311 fps consistently and a 330 gr. @ 297 fps bare string. 

This bow has custom 452X strings and cables and 2 speed nocks top and bottom. Everyones input and personal preferences states that the cams like to be wrapped? I have equal gaps between cables top and bottom measuring 1/8th inch. 

My question is.......My speed numbers are not bad already and my cams have room to be wrapped a little more to about .070"-.080". In anyones opinion do you believe that by me wrapping them a little more that I could increase my speed? Another question I have is noise? By wrapping up the cams more will I be increasing bow noise? Any info would be greatly appreciated, Thanks


----------



## gbear (May 30, 2009)

fowl_natured said:


> My question is.......My speed numbers are not bad already and my cams have room to be wrapped a little more to about .070"-.080". In anyones opinion do you believe that by me wrapping them a little more that I could increase my speed? Another question I have is noise? By wrapping up the cams more will I be increasing bow noise? Any info would be greatly appreciated, Thanks


Since you're asking, you obviously would like more speed. You've got some good numbers now for a 28" draw. At 30" draw, mine shoots 322fps with a 277g arrow. (That arrow was just one lying around that was close to 300g, regular arrow weighs 406g). Will you gain speed? Probably. How much? Don't know. Will you gain noise and shock. NO, probably not. I'd put a couple more wraps in the cables, get that gap down to .080" and see what happens. Start adding speed nocks. Somewhere in here, someone ended up with 3 on top and 4 on bottom. 25YEARS3MARTINS has 4 on each for his HOG. 
The only way to know for sure is just experiment.


----------



## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

fowl_natured said:


> I have been reading this thread about getting maximum performance from bows with these CAT cam systems. Everyone has had alot of great input but would like to run some numbers by everyone to see what you think I should do. First I will give you my specs. 09' Firecat 62 lbs., 28 inch draw length throwing a 303 gr. arrow @ 311 fps consistently and a 330 gr. @ 297 fps bare string.
> 
> This bow has custom 452X strings and cables and 2 speed nocks top and bottom. Everyones input and personal preferences states that the cams like to be wrapped? I have equal gaps between cables top and bottom measuring 1/8th inch.
> 
> My question is.......My speed numbers are not bad already and my cams have room to be wrapped a little more to about .070"-.080". In anyones opinion do you believe that by me wrapping them a little more that I could increase my speed? Another question I have is noise? By wrapping up the cams more will I be increasing bow noise? Any info would be greatly appreciated, Thanks


According to your numbers you are getting 333 IBO...................

At about an 1/8th inch you are getting pretty close to the minimum amount of gap. With the speed you are currently getting and if you like the feel of the bow I wouldn't mess with the cables because I don't know that you can get much more. Maybe you'll gain 3 fps, none or gain nothing and lose the feel. I know the effect 3 or 4 fps will have on the arrow trajectory and penetration............ it is ABSOLUTELY NOT worth giving up anything to gain a few fps.


----------



## gbear (May 30, 2009)

Kstigall said:


> According to your numbers you are getting 333 IBO...................


How do you come up this this 333 #? Is there some formula? What data do you need from my setup to tell me what the IBO is?


----------



## fowl_natured (Jul 24, 2009)

A Martin Firecats 335 IBO is based at 70lb 30 inch draw with a 350 grain arrow.

For every inch you decrease your draw length you will lose approx. 10 fps.

30" = 335 IBO
29" = 325 IBO
28" = 315 IBO
27" = 305 IBO

As long as you throw an arrow that equals 5 grains per pound of your draw you will be close to IBO speed keeping in mind your draw length.

So since my draw weight is approx. 62 lbs. an IBO arrow for me will be approx. 306 grains. 62 X 5 grains per pound=306

So with drawing 62 lbs and throwing a 306 gr. arrow should aprrox. acheive a 335 IBO at 30" draw. Since I'm a 28" draw I automatically lose 20 fps off the IBO rating. So my setup should be around 315 fps IBO. I hope I explained this easy enough to understand it.


----------



## rjd (Dec 3, 2005)

So what arrows are all of you using to get down around the low 300 grains? I know my GT XT Hunters are not all that light but not real heavy either. Or am I just about maxed out speed wise because the short draw. We chroned it at 277 with the draw weight of 62#. I'm slowly working up to the 70# .


----------



## Doc (Jun 10, 2003)

If it's about speed to you, then there are things you can do to ramp up the speed slightly, but at a cost as Kstigall (my favorite superhero) pointed out.
However, it's your bow and if it's speed you want, then speed you can get.
In order to get the maximum performance out of the bow, you need to define what that is. I prefer a smooth draw cycle and will sacrifice speed for what I feel is a good draw and wall.
If you prefer to get the most speed out of the bow you can, there is going to be a noticeable incline right before the valley that plummets quick and will punish you for creeping (insert holding a tiger by the tail analogy here).
As stated, this (individual customization for draw cycle, speed, wall, etc) is the beauty of the cams.


----------



## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

fowl_natured said:


> A Martin Firecats 335 IBO is based at 70lb 30 inch draw with a 350 grain arrow.
> 
> For every inch you decrease your draw length you will lose approx. 10 fps.
> 
> ...


:wink: It might be 310 grains. You are right at the rating as it isn't exact...... You have plenty of speed, I would focus on "feel" even if you end up slowing down the arrow and I have shorter draw than you.


----------



## NewNYBowhunter (Aug 18, 2009)

*arrow weight and speed*

I was at my local archery range, and Joe the owner, and I got talking about my getting a new bow, and we talked about speed, being able to drop my draw weight as I get older (I'm not looking to buy another bow for quite some time).
I was telling him about the firecat, and he ended up showing me on the chrono how arrow weight and fps are related. He shot two arrows, don't remember the weights, but they were 25 gr. different. the heavier arrow was a full 15 fps slower than the other, so arrow weight has a big bearing on trajectory speed.
My Firecat is on it's way back from Martin, I talked to Joe and he's almost as excited about setting this bow up with me as I am. Besides just taking up the bow last year and having him set it up for me, this is going to be a major step up, and he took good care of me last year. I also plan on using the tips in this thread to tune this bow
I wanted a flatter shooting bow for hunting and that's why I bought the firecat, I want to be able to trust shooting it up to 40 - 45 yards max. the other bow is a reflex whitetail hunter, is about 12 years old, and I can see how much arc is in it at 30 yards, which leaves me to think about the effectiveness even at 70#
I will be buying new arrows for this bow, and I'm hoping that I can get a dozen for less than my retentivenss, lol


----------



## 2 blue ducks (Sep 9, 2006)

gjstudt said:


> These are the best pics I could get myself. It's a little tough to hold the bow and full draw and take pictures. Please keep in mind my modules are not full size. You will see that if your familiar with the cam and modules.
> 
> Let me know if you have any questions.


Is it possible to over rotate the cam and get slow speeds ? I cant get a 1/8 allen wrench between the cable and the post where the cable wraps on the post I guess i am doing this right.


----------



## 2 blue ducks (Sep 9, 2006)

ahh the pics didnt go with it. anyway i think I explained it right


----------



## hag000 (Aug 2, 2009)

I have read through this post and it has been a tremendous help. As I am approaching the optimum setup, everything is falling in line. I had some cam lean on my 09 firecat that is slowly disappearing as I get the cams wrapped up. Thanks


----------



## cmherrmann (Jun 1, 2004)

rjd said:


> So what arrows are all of you using to get down around the low 300 grains? I know my GT XT Hunters are not all that light but not real heavy either. Or am I just about maxed out speed wise because the short draw. We chroned it at 277 with the draw weight of 62#. I'm slowly working up to the 70# .



If you want light arrows for speed look at the Victory HV series. You are border line depending on the length of the arrow but should be able to shoot the 400s at 6.1 gpi. The 350s are 6.4 gpi so not a lot of weight difference.


----------



## 2 blue ducks (Sep 9, 2006)

Does anybody have close up pics of the timed cams At full draw I really think I am close here but I want to be positive that mine hit the cables same as yours . At full draw mine look to be equal with bot mods laying on the flat part of the mod and they hit it at the same time as far as I can see but ther is still a part of the mod at the end of the long side ( each pointing at the grip ) that doesnt touch the cable yet , is this ecceptable or do I need to do more cable twisting???????????? HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## NewNYBowhunter (Aug 18, 2009)

*wrapping my cams ... need help on this.*

I want to wrap up my cams to get a little more out of my '08 Firecat. Joe at the range said I should leave it alone, as I'm getting 309 fps out of it. I think I could get a little more. This is a stock bow, it has a G5 peep, Martin Whisker Biscuit, a loop and a kisser button. I'm shooting either 362 or 368 Gr.(Sorry, CRS moments) arrows, 70# 30" Draw length.
My ATA is 32 9/16" my Brace height is 6 7/8'' Tiller is even. The gap is about 3/16'' on the bottom cam and just a hair over 3/16" on the top cam.
My ATA is longer than what I've seen posted on here at 32 3/8'' mine are 32 9/16'' ..., 3/16'' longer than I've seen posted (after the cams are wrapped?)
I guess my questions are this...
How much do I need to wrap up my cams to get them in line with what is being posted here, like how much twisting?
Once I get the cables tightened up, will my brace height and ATA end up being where everyone who's wrapping their cams fall in line?
I also feel like there is a slight bit of a "gap" from the wall to the beginning of the valley, like I could let off some string before the cams grab, is this too much let-off, and how much would I need to move my draw stop? I'm at full let-off, right now, and I read in here that putting a little less let-off and a readjusting of the draw stop will give some speed gains. 
I still have over a month before the hunting season opens up for deer, turkey opens a little sooner, so I'd like to finish my set-up and get ready for the season.
Thanks for any help on this


----------



## NewNYBowhunter (Aug 18, 2009)

*Speed nocks*

I just was wondering about how much speed you gain from using speed nocks. How much speed can you gain per nock?


----------



## Spikealot (May 27, 2009)

2009 FireCat
60# DW
28.5" DL
32 3/8" ATA
7" BH
Tiller set even.
38.7gn. total weight on string
GT XT 7595 28" w/ 100gn tip
396 total arrow weight
285 fps crono - consistantly.

5 eliminator buttons 2 1/4" from TOP cam (15.5gn)
5 eliminator buttons 1" from BOTTOM cam (15.5gn)
Meta Peep (4.5gn)
Tied-on nock set and 1 eliminator button below arrow.

Center Shot is 15/16" from V.E.M. pad on riser

I have the Draw Length Module set in #7 position 29"
I have the Draw Stop set so ACTUALL draw length is 28.5"

TOP CAM string to post is 3/32"
BOTTOM CAM string to post is 1/8"

Since I shoot with my release on the string below my arrow I had to set the gaps from the post off a bit for the cams to be timed together at full draw. I suppose if I were using a D-Loop I could match the post/string gaps.

note= when you twist the cables up to wrap the cams you will have to twist/untwist the string to get the draw weight back down and to get the ATA in spec.

First pic is TOP CAM at rest.
Second pic is BOTTOM CAM at rest.

Third pic is TOP CAM at full draw.
Forth pic is BOTTOM CAM at full draw.

Thanks to all the people who have shared their skills and tuning tips for the C.A.T. cam system on AT ! ! !


----------



## gbear (May 30, 2009)

NewNYBowhunter said:


> I want to wrap up my cams to get a little more out of my '08 Firecat. Joe at the range said I should leave it alone, as I'm getting 309 fps out of it. I think I could get a little more. This is a stock bow, it has a G5 peep, Martin Whisker Biscuit, a loop and a kisser button. I'm shooting either 362 or 368 Gr.(Sorry, CRS moments) arrows, 70# 30" Draw length.
> My ATA is 32 9/16" my Brace height is 6 7/8'' Tiller is even. The gap is about 3/16'' on the bottom cam and just a hair over 3/16" on the top cam.
> My ATA is longer than what I've seen posted on here at 32 3/8'' mine are 32 9/16'' ..., 3/16'' longer than I've seen posted (after the cams are wrapped?)
> I guess my questions are this...
> ...


I wrap mine up till the gap between the strings is about .080", this seems to be optimum for most i've seen here, with a few exceptions. You may add quite a few twists to get it there. THe closer you get to this number, the more your BH and ATA will be what advertised spec is 7" and 32 1/4".
It does sound like you have too much let off, first wrap your cams up as this will make your DL a little longer anyway. then adjust your draw stop to the "- "sign on the cam till you get rid of the feeling of pushing the string to get it off of full draw. Move it about 1/16" at a time.


----------



## NewNYBowhunter (Aug 18, 2009)

*wrapping up*

Gbear, thanks for the reply, I don't know if I'm too close to the season to be playing with the cams right now, Turkey opened up this weekend for bow, and deer season is on the 17th. I'm so busy with the job on, I have no time for myself, or to make a bunch of adjustments, but who knows, I might want to tinker anyway, and go to the range to sight in and drop my draw weight for the woods. My local archery place has a digital scale for draw and holding weight and I might as well get tuned in. I had someone at the range say my arrows look like they fly real well.
One of my questions with wrapping up the cams is can I lose speed wrapping them up that tight?


----------



## Huaco (Jul 7, 2006)

Anybody find a set of strings that will not have serving seperation in the tight turns of the cams??? I bought a set of custom strings and the fella said "not to worry" Well, not even after 200 shots I started noticing the serving seperating...  I even told the guy to make sure the serving was TIGHT as I do not use a peep in the sting and would not be worried about peep rotation.


----------



## elkhunterjay (Aug 26, 2009)

martin is a true center shot bow unlike many other bows. not to say your setup doesnt work just throwing in that martin thought of that a few years ago. look at bowtech lots of tuning before we as consumers get to shoot them..


----------



## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

NewNYBowhunter said:


> Gbear, thanks for the reply, I don't know if I'm too close to the season to be playing with the cams right now, Turkey opened up this weekend for bow, and deer season is on the 17th. I'm so busy with the job on, I have no time for myself, or to make a bunch of adjustments, but who knows, I might want to tinker anyway, and go to the range to sight in and drop my draw weight for the woods. My local archery place has a digital scale for draw and holding weight and I might as well get tuned in. I had someone at the range say my arrows look like they fly real well.
> One of my questions with wrapping up the cams is can I lose speed wrapping them up that tight?


You are much more likely to gain a bit of speed. You'll also be able to put the draw stop in a position to where the feel of the cam doesn't "flop" so abruptly into your anchor.


----------



## Huaco (Jul 7, 2006)

Any word on Speed nocks? Quantity and locations? Can I just use regular nocks?


----------



## gbear (May 30, 2009)

Huaco said:


> Any word on Speed nocks? Quantity and locations? Can I just use regular nocks?


Martin uses regular nocks. I added the speed buttons to mine. Some are useing the no-glove in place of nocks. Can't help with location other than, see post #161 for location and # of nocks. 
I just set up the hog to get it into spec then set up for hunting and performing good enough to get me through the season. After January i'll be doing more tweaking.


----------



## Huaco (Jul 7, 2006)

gbear said:


> Martin uses regular nocks. I added the speed buttons to mine. Some are useing the no-glove in place of nocks. Can't help with location other than, see post #161 for location and # of nocks.
> I just set up the hog to get it into spec then set up for hunting and performing good enough to get me through the season. After January i'll be doing more tweaking.


Thanks Gbear... will look at 161

Happy hunting!


----------



## Spikealot (May 27, 2009)

5 eliminator buttons 2 1/4" from TOP cam (15.5gn)
5 eliminator buttons 1" from BOTTOM cam (15.5gn)
Meta Peep (4.5gn)
Tied-on nock set and 1 eliminator button below arrow.

This is what worked for me.
'09 FireCat 60# 28.5"


----------



## gbear (May 30, 2009)

*Correction*



Huaco said:


> Thanks Gbear... will look at 161
> 
> Happy hunting!


My bad, it's post #199:darkbeer:


----------



## srtp1987 (Oct 19, 2009)

*Speed*

I've been reading this forum and taking in all the adding speed buttons (nothing new from years gone by ), decreasing LO ( turning back the hands of time to 60% LO bows ) and basically trying to make an advertised 80% LO bow @ 70#, 350 gr. arrow supposed 335/345fps (firecat) and 350fps (warthog) reach these speeds. Imagine how fast they would be if advertised speeds were real before all the extra. There are bowtest out on both of these bows and their off just a tad on spec speeds. Tests on pse and mathew speed bows of resent, seem to be (are ) closer. I've shot these bows and can say even though faster, my martins are just as good. Any other shops out there that are finding the firecats and warthogs to be a little off on speeds without an aba cadabra bunch of extra. 
( I am not knocking Martin bows just questioning speeds. Bows have always been great in every other aspect.

SRTP1987


----------



## Rockyhud (Sep 17, 2008)

*Making some progress*

After a lull in archery related activity I finally got a chance to get back to it and decided to review some of the latest info and feedback that others have put into this thread since I last posted. Not that additional speed wouldn't be appreciated, but one of my primary goals was to reduce the prominent bump at the end of the draw cycle, just as the string enters the valley and comes up on the draw stop. My bow has always had enough bump that it tends to bounce the arrow on the rest a little unless I slow my draw speed near the end.

I got my dial calipers and other measuring tools and took measurements of brace height, axle-to-axle, tiller, relative location of the speed nocks to the cam and most importantly the gap between the cam posts and string. The initial gap on the top cam was .109" and the bottom gap was .097".

Following the advise in this thread that the top gap should be less than the bottom, I added 6 turns to the cable loop on the bottom cam (to close the top cam gap) and 4 turns on the top cam. When I took the press off and measured the gaps again I was pleased with the results. The top cam gap is now .060" and the bottom gap is .066". I checked the brace height too - it increased a mere 1/16", putting it now at 7 1/16". The axle-to-axle didn't change at all - measuring 32.5" before and after.

I drew the string back like I usually do and was pleasantly surprised. The draw cycle, especially the end where the valley and draw stop come into play, was noticeably smoother with a little less bump than before. I'm jazzed about that. Now, I can't wait to shoot it outside to get a complete feel of the change. That, unfortunately, will have to wait a while as it's currently -5 degrees, snowing and the wind is howling. Hopefully this weekend will be decent so I can. The only thing I won't be able to report is any specific speed increase, if any, as I don't have a chronograph - yet.

Once I've gotten a chance to shoot outside I'll post my results and impressions. Thanks again to all who've provided their knowledge and wisdom for the rest of us to benefit from it.


----------



## Enticer (Sep 6, 2005)

Looking at the pics here I notice that all the modules have 8 settings for DL. On my cat cam the module has only 2 positions for DL. Whats up with that?


----------



## Spikealot (May 27, 2009)

Enticer said:


> Looking at the pics here I notice that all the modules have 8 settings for DL. On my cat cam the module has only 2 positions for DL. Whats up with that?


The Standard drawlength modules let you adjust from 26" - 29" DL,
The Long Draw modules go from 29.5" - 30".
Your bow has the Long Draw modules on it if there are only 2 positions.


----------



## gbear (May 30, 2009)

Spikealot said:


> The Standard drawlength modules let you adjust from 26" - 29" DL,
> The Long Draw modules go from 29.5" - 30".
> Your bow has the Long Draw modules on it if there are only 2 positions.


Correct for the firecat. 
if you have the warthog then the LD Mod is 30.5-31" and the standard is 27-30"


----------



## huntsmuleys (Jun 17, 2006)

*cat 2 cams*

I have been reading this all night..Lots of good tips in this thread. My question is, would all these tuning methods for the cat cams be about the same with the cat 2 cams?


----------



## Spikealot (May 27, 2009)

C.A.T. & C.A.T.2's will tune the same.


----------



## fowl_natured (Jul 24, 2009)

Well after Martin was gracious enough to upgrade my 09' Firecat to 2010 limbs, limb cups and cams I'm trying to get back in tune myself using the info in this thread.

Sooooooo, how do I look?

[email protected] 32 7/16"
Brace height @ 6 15/16"
Draw weight @ 60#
Draw Length @ 27.625

Modules set on 28" draw setting and draw stop set to approx. 27.625". So less than 80% let off (I'm guessing approx. about 73-75% let off?)

Arrow weight = 312 grains

Loaded string (meta peep, string leeches, d-loop) shooting 60#, 27.625" DL and 312 gr. arrow at 299 fps.

I have not experimented with speed nocks yet. I just have 2 top and bottom at the moment.

Any suggestions?


----------



## bb11 (Dec 16, 2009)

*New 09 Firecat owner*

Guys, as a new Firecat owner, just setting my bow up I have to thank you for a great string! :thumbs_up At the same time I have to say that I am a bit daunted by the posts and the thought of going backwards once I start tinkering...  Has anybody ever done or seen a utube vid showing the processes discussed in this thread?

If so where?

If not, how to entice someone?:darkbeer:

Thanks,
Bruce


----------



## Spikealot (May 27, 2009)

bb11 said:


> Guys, as a new Firecat owner, just setting my bow up I have to thank you for a great string! :thumbs_up At the same time I have to say that I am a bit daunted by the posts and the thought of going backwards once I start tinkering...  Has anybody ever done or seen a utube vid showing the processes discussed in this thread?
> 
> If so where?
> 
> ...


I dont think there is a video of the process. It is pretty easy tho - Look at the pics in the post above yours by 'Fowl Natured'.

The following is a post by Nuts&Bolts that explains this much better than I do.


Remove the screw out of the DL module
and rotate the DL module,
and re-install the screw for the DL module
into the hole that is 1/2-inch LONGER than your correct DL.

If you shoot 28-inches,
then install the screw into the 28.5-inch hole
on the DL module.



Step 2.

Start twisting up the bowstring,
i.e. ADD twists to the bowstring,
to shorten the bowstring,
which will adjust the starting rotation position
of the bottom cam.

Keep TWISTING and TWISTING until the bottom cam looks like this picture.










The bottom cam has a hole near the logo.

As you keep ADDING twists to the bowstring,
the bottom cam will rotate
and the edge of the hole will get CLOSER and CLOSER
to the face of the bottom limb.

When the edge of the hole just kisses the face of the bottom limb,
then you have added enough TWISTS to the bowstring.


Now,
obviously,
the bowstring is much shorter than NORMAL.

So,
you may find that the bow DL setting is now too short for your liking
or
you may find that the bow DL setting is a skosh too long for your liking.



Easy fix.

Adjust the bow DL just right,
by moving the draw stop in the slot.

Make teeny tiny adjustments,
to the draw stop position,
until you get the draw length setting you like.

Hump will be ZERO.


So,
what if the DL is now perfect,
and the HUMP is ZERO....

but,
the holding weight is too high?

Well,
move the draw stop away from the riser,
and the holding weight will drop down.

But,
when you move the draw stop away from the riser,
the holding weight goes DOWN,
but the DL also goes UP.

Well,
just add more twists to the bowstring,
and the DL will shorten a skosh.


As long as the edge of the hole in the bottom cam
is pretty close to touching the face of the bottom limb,
the HUMP will be ZERO.

All I would like to add to this is that once you twist up the string and get the bottom cam hole lined up with the limb - if the hole in the top cam is farther from the limb - then untwist the cable that is connected to the outer peg on the top cam another twist or so untill they match. If it is closer to the limb or starting to go behind it - add another full twist.
Once both are the same - your good


_________________
M4L


----------



## Enticer (Sep 6, 2005)

gbear said:


> assuming it's a firecat like in your sig, then it is position 7
> then each number down from there shortens it 1/2"
> 
> Long draw mod has positions 8 and 9 only, you get 29.5" and 30" respectively.


 I have a Warthog with the long DL modules on it. They modules were set at the longest draw position when I received it but when i changed them to the short position (#8) it actually felt longer to me, as well I thought the cam was going to lock up at full draw. When I started to let down the string started to go slack before the cams begin to roll over:mg: Needless to say but I immediately switched it back to where it was to begin with. I know I can adjust the draw stop to avoid locking the cams but still would like to figure out why it seemed longer when it should have been just the opposite.
I should mention that my Warthog is a little customized:

Barnesdale Limbs in NextG1 Camo, with Cat 2 cams...
2010 Roto cups (as seen on 2010 Martin bows)
32" ATA and a 6 5/8" Brace Height
Specs form 08 Firecat.


----------



## gbear (May 30, 2009)

Enticer said:


> I have a Warthog with the long DL modules on it. They modules were set at the longest draw position when I received it but when i changed them to the short position (#8) it actually felt longer to me, as well I thought the cam was going to lock up at full draw. When I started to let down the string started to go slack before the cams begin to roll over:mg: Needless to say but I immediately switched it back to where it was to begin with. I know I can adjust the draw stop to avoid locking the cams but still would like to figure out why it seemed longer when it should have been just the opposite.
> I should mention that my Warthog is a little customized:
> 
> Barnesdale Limbs in NextG1 Camo, with Cat 2 cams...
> ...


sounds like you need to adjust the draw stop, it will feel this way if it is set for more than 75% let off.


----------



## Enticer (Sep 6, 2005)

Am I correct in assuming that whenever the DL is changed, the draw stop has to be adjusted as well? Is there an optimum location for the draw stop or is it just a personal preference for each shooter?


----------



## texoma2010 (Jan 5, 2010)

wow, just read this thread today. Have my first ever martin coming in this week, cant wait to get it set up. oh ya its a 2010 firecat tr2


----------



## texoma2010 (Jan 5, 2010)

will having the ccs on the firecat affect all the good tips on here?


----------



## Spikealot (May 27, 2009)

texoma2010 said:


> will having the ccs on the firecat affect all the good tips on here?


'08 Firecats had the cable slide and different length string/cables but tuning is all the same.


----------



## Spikealot (May 27, 2009)

Enticer said:


> Am I correct in assuming that whenever the DL is changed, the draw stop has to be adjusted as well? Is there an optimum location for the draw stop or is it just a personal preference for each shooter?


Yes - if you move the modules to a different position you need to move the draw stop also.
A good way to start is to put a mark on both modules 1/2" from the end (the flat part that the cables rest in at full draw) then set the stop so that it contacts the limb (and stops you) when the cables are coming off the modules right at your mark.
From that starting point you can use the stop to fine tune your draw length and let-off %.


----------



## scepterman30x (Oct 22, 2007)

Enticer said:


> Am I correct in assuming that whenever the DL is changed, the draw stop has to be adjusted as well? Is there an optimum location for the draw stop or is it just a personal preference for each shooter?


No. The draw stop will set the DL. You may have to move the mod i space longer in able to properly set the draw stop but once it is set then you tweek the mod to desired % letoff.



Spikealot said:


> Yes - if you move the modules to a different position you need to move the draw stop also.A good way to start is to put a mark on both modules 1/2" from the end (the flat part that the cables rest in at full draw) then set the stop so that it contacts the limb (and stops you) when the cables are coming off the modules right at your mark.
> From that starting point you can use the stop to fine tune your draw length and let-off %.


Not if your DL is spot on where the draw stop is presently at.


----------



## Spikealot (May 27, 2009)

Listen to scepterman.


----------



## Enticer (Sep 6, 2005)

Spikealot said:


> Yes - if you move the modules to a different position you need to move the draw stop also.
> A good way to start is to put a mark on both modules 1/2" from the end (the flat part that the cables rest in at full draw) then set the stop so that it contacts the limb (and stops you) when the cables are coming off the modules right at your mark.
> From that starting point you can use the stop to fine tune your draw length and let-off %.


 I just built a draw board and tried setting it as you suggested with the cables coming off the mods 1/2 " from the end but when it reached the 1/2" mark the cams locked up solid:scared: Good thing it was on the draw board. It feels like it is going to lock up if i have the cables coming of the mods at anything less than 1". I did manage to get the timing spot on which did eliminate some of the hump at the end of the draw.


----------



## Spikealot (May 27, 2009)

I dont quite understand it locking up.
Here is a video showing the cables coming off the mods at the 1/2" point:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TiQQOGXNzL8


----------



## Enticer (Sep 6, 2005)

I don't quite understand it either but if I draw my bow far enough that the cables are sitting along the flat spot on the mods, like shown in the video and on pics in this thread then they stay there when I begin to let down
i don't see a love affair developing with these cam's for me.


----------



## Sparky77 (Jun 13, 2010)

some awesome information here thanks heaps guys for taking the time to share


----------



## gbear (May 30, 2009)

*speed button update*

decided to play with the speed buttons a little. I wanted to add as much mass in the smallest area so i used solid lead free solder wire, 3/32" diameter. no particular reason for the lead free it's just the only solid wire i had in that diameter, i would have prefered lead wire for the extra density.
I already had 2 speed buttons installed they weigh 3.1g each. 
I cut the wire to lengths to give 26g total weight. 26 is an arbitrary number i chose as a place to start, no method whatsoever to this number. Wire was wrapped around the string between the 2 buttons. After experimentation I ended up with a total weight of 23.9g at the top cam and 26.6g at the bottom cam.
i moved the weights up and down 1/8" at a time while shooting thru the chronograph. postion is critical, the chronograph doesn't lie. 
Final position from the point the string touches the cam to the center of the mass is: bottom-1 3/16"; top-2 15/16"
All in all i gained 15 fps with this little addition.
Adding more weight just slows it down, i tried as much as 35g. 
pic shows the speed buttons at the bottom cam.


----------



## Stomper (Oct 9, 2007)

Wow very interesting information. I have been strugling for some time now on how to tune my firehawk. I like the detailed and easy to follow info here and I will give it a try.


----------



## mudpig (Feb 28, 2011)

gjstudt, Thanks for all the help. Even tho this is an old post it works!! I have the new Martin Silencer and it has the new Nitro 2 cams on it. This information is spot on (for any dual cam bow I think). I was shooting 385 gr arrows at 280fps with 60# and 29"DL. I twisted the cables and untwisted the string until I got to the short side of 1/8" gap top and bottom (slightly more top than bottom) then I moved my draw stop to bring my DL back down to just over 29. This got rid of the harsh letoff that it had before. It increased my hold weight from 12# to 20# and gave me a nice solid wall (little valley) which is a great feel for me. End result, those same arrows are now moving accross the chrony at 303fps.


----------



## zestycj7 (Sep 24, 2010)

Would this work on a Shadowcat to lower the knocking point? I shoot fingers and my knocking point is crazy hight, still can't get the tail low condition out of it.
Thanks.
Don.


----------



## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

zestycj7 said:


> Would this work on a Shadowcat to lower the knocking point? I shoot fingers and my knocking point is crazy hight, still can't get the tail low condition out of it.
> Thanks.
> Don.


ADD a full turn to the top limb bolt.
REMOVE a full turn on the bottom limb bolt.

See how that works for you.
If things get better,
but you STILL have some tail low condition...

ADD another 1/4-turn to the top limb bolt
and
REMOVE another 1/4-turn off the bottom limb bolt.

Keep adjusting this way,
until you get level arrow flight.


CONFIRM that you have the same DL module setting on the top and bottom
(same screw hole in the top DL module and same screw hole in the bottom DL module).


----------



## zestycj7 (Sep 24, 2010)

Any sugestion on where I should start with the amount of turns out on my limb bolts, or just back them both out about 3 turns from bottomed out?
Thanks.
Don.


----------



## gjstudt (Nov 14, 2005)

mudpig said:


> gjstudt, Thanks for all the help. Even tho this is an old post it works!! I have the new Martin Silencer and it has the new Nitro 2 cams on it. This information is spot on (for any dual cam bow I think). I was shooting 385 gr arrows at 280fps with 60# and 29"DL. I twisted the cables and untwisted the string until I got to the short side of 1/8" gap top and bottom (slightly more top than bottom) then I moved my draw stop to bring my DL back down to just over 29. This got rid of the harsh letoff that it had before. It increased my hold weight from 12# to 20# and gave me a nice solid wall (little valley) which is a great feel for me. End result, those same arrows are now moving accross the chrony at 303fps.


Mudpig

You are very welcome. The concepts in this thread will work on the newer Martin bows as well.


----------



## solocam newb (Nov 2, 2009)

How did a martin thread get 16,000 views? :set1_applaud:


----------



## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

zestycj7 said:


> Any sugestion on where I should start with the amount of turns out on my limb bolts, or just back them both out about 3 turns from bottomed out?
> Thanks.
> Don.


Hello Don:

Just start from where your bolts are currently.

Since you are getting a nock low condition,
the bottom limb is working WAY TOO HARD.

So,
ADD 1 FULL TURN to the top bolt,
and
REMOVE 1 full turn off the bottom bolt.

Things should get better.

If things get better,
then,
try it again.

ADD another turn on the top bolt.
REMOVE another turn off the bottom bolt.


----------



## zestycj7 (Sep 24, 2010)

Cool, thanks Alan. 
I will give it a shot tonight after work.
Don.


----------



## zestycj7 (Sep 24, 2010)

Well I have been playing around with cam settings, so far I have picked up 11fps just by doing what was suggested in this thread.
My numbers before any tweeking were..28" draw, 55 pounds, 321 grain arrows going 265 fps. After the saig cable twisting and such my speed went up to 271 fps. I cranked the poundage up to 60 pounds and am now at 284.5 fps.Next I will try adding some speed knocks and move them around to see if I can bring up my fps.
I am also going to refletch a few shafts with feathers to bring the total arrow weight down, but I still don't see how I will be able to get the weight down to IBO (or what ever the letters are)weight for 60 pounds. I am shooting Harvest Time HT-2's in the #400 flavor with 75 grain tips.
I will keep ya'll posted with what I come up with. If anyone has anything to add, jump in.
OBTW... This is a non-sight finger bow.
Don.


----------



## vkrules (Aug 31, 2009)

I found that by adding a bit more weight below the factory speed knocks on the bottom cam gave me a few extra fps .And try a tied knock set.Victory hv shafts will get your weight down.


----------



## zestycj7 (Sep 24, 2010)

My didn't have any speed knocks on the strings when I got my bow. What are the factory measurements for the knocks?
Thanks,
Don.


----------



## gjstudt (Nov 14, 2005)

Start with 3 brass nock sets and locate them half inch from each cam. This will be a good start.


zestycj7 said:


> My didn't have any speed knocks on the strings when I got my bow. What are the factory measurements for the knocks?
> Thanks,
> Don.


----------



## zestycj7 (Sep 24, 2010)

Thanks, Gary. 
Don.


----------



## vkrules (Aug 31, 2009)

284 fps at 28inch with 321 grns at 60 lb WITHOUT the factory speed knocks. Thats one fast cat ( it should make it's rated ibo speed easy) You should pick up another 5 to 10with the knocks.


----------



## bbjavelina (Jan 30, 2005)

I don't have CAT cams, but I've read thru this thread at least a half dozen times thinking that the same general ideas (if not exact measurements) would apply to my Hybrix cams. 

Now I'm wondering how many of you have eperience with the Hybrix and would be willing to share. I've tried starting a new thread both here and on the Martin forum with no luck.


----------



## zestycj7 (Sep 24, 2010)

Butch,
I have Hybrix cams on the Shadowcat I have been tweeking on. On my other Shadowcat it has written on the cams....Nitro.1.5. If you stack them one on top of the other they are the same. So tweek your bow to your hearts content. It is awsome what you can get out of these cams.
If you have any questions, just ask.
Don.


----------



## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

a good ttt for martin owners.


----------



## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Forgot this thread existed. I don't know how many Martins with Cat Cams I've played with, but enough of them and the Rytera cams are no different. I've had 3 Shadowcats, two 2010s and one 2011. Down to one and one now. You know, the manual works. One cam hits before the other, twist the cable that feeds into the module for that cam. This wrapping of cams and whatever, fine, but always check draw length and draw weight. Go out of specs, long on draw and heavy on weight, and you're just fooling yourself.

My 2010 and 2011 are set to a bit over 56 pounds with 28 1/4" draws. Using a 284 gr arrow they cranked out 286 and 293 fps respectively. The 2010 doesn't not have speed nocks - so the 7 fps difference? 

I have advanced the Cat Cams quite abnormally, but held ata spec. Speed was not effected and if anything the draw seemed a bit smoother, but these were Shadowcats of 41 1/4 and 41 1/2".

So far, depending on the bow, having the top cam hit a bit before the bottom seems to work wonders. Hoyt people have found the same thing. I did the same with my last two Hoyts and they shot great.


----------



## kylecurtis04 (Nov 30, 2010)

anyone have any videos to walk us through the process?


----------



## Rockyhud (Sep 17, 2008)

Kyle, check out post #219 by Spikelaot on the previous page. He copied an earlier post from nuts&bolts that nicely describes the process. Read it carefully and apply the steps as described. You should be able to get the cams, DW, DL and let-off set just the way you want by following these steps. I know, I've used the process a few times myself when I've changed cables and strings. Also, nuts&bolts has some very good and clear photos on the first page of this thread so everyone can visualize just what they should be striving for. If you have a bow press it makes the whole process that much easier than turning the limb bolts in and out. I have a BowMaster portable press and it works great with my 08 Firecat.

I recently got a little smarter and started using my cordless drill-driver with a 1/2" adapter and 5/8" socket to fit the hex head on the press's jackscrew (threaded bolt) to draw the limbs in (take tension off the strings and cables) and let them out, making it a much easier and faster process. In case you're not familiar with it you can check it out here (http://www.prototechind.com/). It costs about $50 and is worth every penny. I take mine with me when I'm out hunting just in case - it only weighs a few ounces. The one thing I do that I haven't seen mentioned is I apply a drop or two of light machine oil to the jackscrew threads every now and then (wiping off any excess) as it helps reduce friction, making it easier to turn the jackscrew in and out and I feel sure it helps reduce wear and tear on the main body.


----------



## bbjavelina (Jan 30, 2005)

I'm glad to see this thread come back up. I set my Nemesis aside mid-way thru hunting season because it developed a creaking noise. Time to get it back out and tear it down for a cleanup -- maybe build a new set of strings -- and get it re-tuned. I reallly like that bow.

Just as an aside -- I recently picked up a Bowtech Invasion. I'm shocked at the similarities between it and the Nemesis. Very similar feels, but I think the Nemesis is quieter when it's in tune.

Best of luck to each of you.


----------



## B.Hunter (May 4, 2009)

marking thread.


----------

