# Hoyt Alphamax pricing? Being ripped off!



## j3dgu (Jan 18, 2006)

That is a bit high. I have seen them around $749.00 for the AM32


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## joffutt1 (Mar 23, 2008)

got mine for 699.


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## mjcop518 (Nov 8, 2008)

I knew they were high. Guess thats why they call them Green Rapers!


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## Pittfall (Mar 21, 2005)

Yeah, $699 at my shop also. $720 for the 35.


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## 1DX (Aug 11, 2005)

899 in Alaska: " But from what I understand ,There coming of the racks fast


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## tileman (Jan 26, 2008)

$849 here for the 35


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## wdriver (Aug 21, 2008)

*Hoyt*

$869 at my local shop.


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## chrismtl (Oct 5, 2008)

My local shop said that all the bows went up in price this year(Hoyt, MAthews and PSE at least).


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## xtremetj (Feb 15, 2004)

Wapitiwayne said:


> 899 is sticker here in Coukey:


That's a bunch of crap if you ask me! The manufactures won't let you order/buy from someone else when your dealer is sticking it to you! It just really sucks. I realize everyone is in business to make a living and I do respect that but when there is such a huge price difference it just really pisses me off! I'll bet $100 bucks it the same shop I go to. He sells everything in the shop for retail, accessories and all. Then they wonder when someone shows up with rest from somewhere else why they didn't buy it from them. Then when you buy everything from him including a couple bows a year they won't even give or offer you some sort of discount. I'll get off my soap box now.


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## malott (Aug 20, 2006)

From what I was told Hoyt is telling dealers what price they are to be sold for. Funny though how the price range is all over the place. I believe the price around here was suppose to be $849 I think. Might have been more.


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## tileman (Jan 26, 2008)

malott said:


> From what I was told Hoyt is telling dealers what price they are to be sold for. Funny though how the price range is all over the place. I believe the price around here was suppose to be $849 I think. Might have been more.


Some shops probably pay less than others for whatever reason?????


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## outbackarcher (Oct 31, 2005)

A company can't tell you what to sale a bow for. Hoyt tried this in 2006 and it didn't last long. They can give you a suggested retail and a minimum advertised price but that is about it. At my shop the 32's are $719.


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## outbackarcher (Oct 31, 2005)

tileman said:


> Some shops probably pay less than others for whatever reason?????



Depending on how many bows the dealers buys there are different pricing tiers. If a dealer is just starting out or don't sale many bows then he will have to pay a lot more for the bows.


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## xtremetj (Feb 15, 2004)

outbackarcher said:


> A company can't tell you what to sale a bow for. Hoyt tried this in 2006 and it didn't last long. They can give you a suggested retail and a minimum advertised price but that is about it. At my shop the 32's are $719.



For $719 I would be buying me a new AM32 this year but my dealer is selling them for $849 ukey: I guess no new Hoyt for me!


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## malott (Aug 20, 2006)

outbackarcher said:


> A company can't tell you what to sale a bow for. Hoyt tried this in 2006 and it didn't last long. They can give you a suggested retail and a minimum advertised price but that is about it. At my shop the 32's are $719.


The story I got was the Hoyt rep told 2 shops around here that sell a large number of bows a year what price they would be sold at. I don't think it went over very well. I haven't checked the prices at the shops to see what they decided to do.


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## GCOD (Nov 24, 2006)

749 @ my shop for the 32 and 35


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## 717archer (Oct 21, 2008)

$849 in pa


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## Wood (Aug 3, 2006)

xtremetj said:


> That's a bunch of crap if you ask me! The manufactures won't let you order/buy from someone else when your dealer is sticking it to you! It just really sucks. I realize everyone is in business to make a living and I do respect that but when there is such a huge price difference it just really pisses me off! I'll bet $100 bucks it the same shop I go to. He sells everything in the shop for retail, accessories and all. Then they wonder when someone shows up with rest from somewhere else why they didn't buy it from them. Then when you buy everything from him including a couple bows a year they won't even give or offer you some sort of discount. I'll get off my soap box now.


899 here but I know one of the quickest ways to go broke is to open a proshop/archery range. I've seen several go under in this area. I don't want Cabelas or Sportsman's Warehouse to be the only place I can get a bow and not have any place to shoot it.


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## Washi (Jan 23, 2005)

They sell for full suggested retail here.


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## Shinsou (Aug 7, 2008)

$749 here.


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## Tribute2007 (Jan 30, 2007)

$759 at the shop I go into.


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## PT1911 (Oct 23, 2008)

$850 here in SE MN.


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## K.Jensen (Jul 2, 2008)

899.00 here


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## Double Lung 'Em (Dec 19, 2002)

AM 32 - $849
AM 35 - $899

Both in MI & IL


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## lost n mi (Nov 17, 2007)

am 32 -849
am 35 - 899 

michigan


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## lost n mi (Nov 17, 2007)

last year katera was 749 i was qouted 799


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## fstgstdsmpay (Mar 20, 2006)

$799 for the 32 in CT


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## Shinsou (Aug 7, 2008)

@ last 2 posts.

Wut?


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## Boludo (Feb 18, 2003)

849 here in Utah. And we're spitting distance from the factory. Insane. 

I would think that hoyt could really blow mathews out of the water in places like this if they put their bow at 700 like it is in some places. 

Another idea, why don't those of you in the cheap places team up with the guys in the expensive places? Buy a bow, charge a guy $20, and ship it to him?


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## BlueUltra2 (Jun 18, 2002)

They're both $729 here in Indiana....


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## notbulbous (Jun 26, 2007)

All Pro Shops are high...but they are going to be able to give you expert advice, tuning help, and set up a new bow for you too. That's how they can justify the high price, I guess.

It stinks to have to pay high prices in the age of the internet...but it would be worse to not have a shop around!


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## Stickflinger56 (Jan 7, 2007)

849 in Oregon and I also heard that Hoyt was setting the price.... I guess we will see.


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## shooter6687 (Mar 28, 2006)

Boludo said:


> 849 here in Utah. And we're spitting distance from the factory. Insane.
> 
> I would think that hoyt could really blow mathews out of the water in places like this if they put their bow at 700 like it is in some places.
> 
> Another idea, why don't those of you in the cheap places team up with the guys in the expensive places? Buy a bow, charge a guy $20, and ship it to him?


I hear ya...mathews bows made here in Wisconsin and we pay full sugested retail....go figure. As far as the hoyts full price here also..


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## broadfieldpoint (Oct 12, 2006)

I paid 849.00 for my Katera last year. To be honest, I was disapointed...thats ALOT of money. I think the bow should have sold for around 699.00

This is where Bowtech shines....I think they are fairly priced.


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## Avalon (Jul 23, 2007)

I went and priced a few new bows and was blown away by the price increase. I can not pay almost $900 for a bare bow. I know that pro shops are not making a killing and it's hard to make a go of it in the archery industry. The high prices are gonna hurt the pro shops. It may make absolutely no difference but they need to make enough noise that Hoyt hears and eases off the price alittle. I know the cost of materials is going up but they are cutting the throats of the local pro shops. I believe that internet sales and online purchasing of used bows will only increase. How can I pay $900 bucks for a new bow when a gently used year old bow goes for $500 here of AT. 

I strongly believe in supporting my local pro shop but the prices are making that extremely difficult/impossible to do.


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## dwagoner (Sep 27, 2007)

malott said:


> From what I was told Hoyt is telling dealers what price they are to be sold for. Funny though how the price range is all over the place. I believe the price around here was suppose to be $849 I think. Might have been more.


my dealer told me that they had a minimum that hoyt would let dealers sell for and any less they "could" lose the dealership. I got $800 for 32 and 850 for 35 here.


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## rcracer30 (Oct 12, 2008)

750.00 in chambersburg pa


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## Crusher (Jan 27, 2003)

Hoyt has set the price for dealers this year....It is called MAP pricing. It is the minimum for what they can advertise the bow for. I don't know alot of the details in what they can and can not do, but I think they can sell them for less than MAP, but can't advertise them for less than map. I don't know exactly what the price is in my area of Western New York, but it is in the area of $830. It is true that dealers that sell more bows get better dealer pricing, but that does not effect the MAP price.

I am waiting for my shooter bow. I hope it is here soon!

It is shocking that people are getting them for $719 though. My guess is that they are selling them for less than MAP price. If so, that could be a problem for them down the road if they are advertising them this way.


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## B3AV3R (Apr 19, 2006)

Hoyt doesn't tell dealers that they have to sell them at a specific price, only that they are not allowed to advertise them below a certain price. We can sell them for whatever we want.

There is a catch to this, though... Say a customer walks into shop A, shoots the bow, likes it and puts it on lay-a-way, or buys it... Then this customer walks into shop B and sees the same bow for $50-$100 less. How happy do you think this customer is going to be with shop A? He's going to go back, try to get his money back and create a scene. Then shop A calls Hoyt to complain about shop B and Hoyt has to make a phone call to shop B and try to get them to play on a more level playing field(raise their price). If they meet some resistance and shop A happens to have palced a bigger order then shop B, shop B may find themselves no longer being able to carry Hoyt.

I've been shop B more than once, not necessarily with Hoyt, but it's been a bit frustrating, to say the least. We have to maintain a somewhat even price if we want to continue doing business...


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## bowhunter22405 (Nov 20, 2008)

I have been shooting for just over 20 years. I feel the price of bows are getting way out of control. I bought a new rifle and scope this year to split my hunting season between both. If this trend continues I feel the top 4 are going to loose alot of archers. My new Ruger Hawkeye in stainless and camo with Leupold 4.5 x 12 VX3 was just under $1000. Have more than that in each one of my bows. ukey:


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## Shinsou (Aug 7, 2008)

That's inflation for you. :thumbs_do


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## malott (Aug 20, 2006)

If a dealer purchases these bows form hoyt then the bow belongs to the dealer and shouldn't they be able to sell it for whatever they want? I mean really hoyt has already got their money so why should they care what the dealership is making off the bow. :dontknow:


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## mjcop518 (Nov 8, 2008)

I called the original shop that caused this thread today. Unknowing who they were talking too they have now quoted me $849 which is $30 less than two weeks ago. I kinda of spilled the beans of the problem with the differences in prices at which time they told me just to come in and they would work with me on the price. I think that is ******ed, if they were worried about me buying else where then they should of thought of that before they jacked their prices up.


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## fletched (May 10, 2006)

outbackarcher said:


> Depending on how many bows the dealers buys there are different pricing tiers. If a dealer is just starting out or don't sale many bows then he will have to pay a lot more for the bows.


The pricing doesn't change depending on the size of the dealer or on how many bows he orderd. It is the same price for every dealer. There is a minimum bow order and a dealer is expected to sell more each year. There are different terms that a dealer can choose and this will effect the price. You have an early pay option with shipping discounts. You can buy now and pay later, which is terms, but the dealer won't get as good of a price. The biggest discount a dealer can get is usually 15% below wholesale price.


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## fletched (May 10, 2006)

malott said:


> If a dealer purchases these bows form hoyt then the bow belongs to the dealer and shouldn't they be able to sell it for whatever they want? I mean really hoyt has already got their money so why should they care what the dealership is making off the bow. :dontknow:


Hoyt, like some other companies have a minimum pricing policy. This is established to help protect the dealer. It keeps dealers from under pricing other dealers which can put a shop out of business. They also have protected sales areas to keep dealers from having to compete with other dealers and business. You have to have a store front also with established hours before you can become a dealer. This prevents someone from opening a basement shop and uncutting a dealer who has an established business.


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## K.Jensen (Jul 2, 2008)

Another reason that I only buy from my local shop is I can take all the accessories (weather I bought them there or not) and whatever that I want on the bow and it will be set up for me and tuned other than verifying the peep location. Also I get free "layaway" meaning I just pay as I want for it and they just keep an open tab for me


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## bowhunting4me (Apr 27, 2007)

Some people this year are not going to be able to spend $850 for a new bow. The great thing is there are a lot of great bows out there priced between $500 to $700. By the way did any of you know we are paying about 11% more for our archery items because the gov't has the manufacturers collect a tax that is charged to the retail shops?


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## archerm3 (Jan 4, 2007)

xtremetj said:


> That's a bunch of crap if you ask me! The manufactures won't let you order/buy from someone else when your dealer is sticking it to you! It just really sucks. I realize everyone is in business to make a living and I do respect that but when there is such a huge price difference it just really pisses me off! I'll bet $100 bucks it the same shop I go to. He sells everything in the shop for retail, accessories and all. Then they wonder when someone shows up with rest from somewhere else why they didn't buy it from them. Then when you buy everything from him including a couple bows a year they won't even give or offer you some sort of discount. I'll get off my soap box now.


Something tells me that you will be much happier when there isn't a local dealer around to see the new products. Who would open up a store just to make peanuts and listen to the local population ***** and moan about prices while driving up in their brand new F150s and showing pictures of their latest multithousand dollar guided game hunt.



> Then when you buy everything from him including a couple bows a year they won't even give or offer you some sort of discount.


 Is this conjecture or experience? I'll bet $100 that it's conjecture. 

You are free to drive you tightwad booty all around this great nation and walk in the door of the dealer that sells items at the price you want. You don't HAVE to buy at the local store but most manufacturers do specify that you HAVE to buy in PERSON. 

I've lived in places where you had to mail order everything. It sucks. Trust me. The price savings isn't worth the postage costs, backordering, and incorrect order completion. Then you have to do all your own work.


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## firepin (Nov 23, 2008)

Eastern Washington AM32 849. So far worth every penny.


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## HoytMN (Apr 7, 2008)

AM 32 is $849 and the AM 35 is $899

I had a hard time getting myself to spend $749 on my Katera last year....


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## huntingwhttail (Nov 24, 2008)

Don't flame me for saying this but I think some of Hoyt, Bowtech, and Mathews stuff is overrated. Yes, they make good quality bows, but they also build offbrand bows at the same facilities with the same materials that can be just as good without the name. The offbrand like Redhead may not have that one cam, or silencer, but if it can put an arrow in that deer than that's all you need, and for a lot less $$$.


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## brian smith (Sep 27, 2007)

I have a feeling there is gonna be a bid drop in guys buying the flagship bows this year. The bow manufacturers must not realize the shape of the economy pricing the bows so much higher this year. Im sure it will reflect in their sales.


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## xtremetj (Feb 15, 2004)

archerm3 said:


> Something tells me that you will be much happier when there isn't a local dealer around to see the new products. Who would open up a store just to make peanuts and listen to the local population ***** and moan about prices while driving up in their brand new F150s and showing pictures of their latest multithousand dollar guided game hunt.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## xtremetj (Feb 15, 2004)

Okay.....I messed up the that post. Guess I need to learn how to use the quote feature 

Greg.


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## MOHALucan (Mar 20, 2008)

$970 at one of the bow shops here, but it also has a Fuse sight on it....


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## DONDEERE (Sep 24, 2007)

...one thing is for sure...the guys that have been BEGGING for HOYT Dealerships may just get them next yeere...

...because if there are in fact some of these units selling for the prices being bantied about in this thread...

...there are some HOYT Dealers that will be very soon *LOSING THEIR DEALERSHIPS* ...

...and FWIW...there are in fact different price structures with many manufacturers...HOYT being one...they have a 3 tier pricing level and *IN FACT* HOYT Dealers depending upon their puchases are invoiced their units at different price levels...

...not all HOYT Dealers pay the same price for their bows...as is the case(I can't believe I just said CASE :mg: ) for many other Bow Dealers as well...

...if you've been wanting a HOYT Dealership Franchise, now just might be the time to send in your application...you may have one by the time the ATA show rolls around...

...a HOYT AUTHORIZED DEALER sign comes down as one goes up next door!!...

...and your "previous" Dealer will be on the outside looking in!!...


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## MightyElkHntr (Dec 13, 2006)

*Lets do some math tutoring...archery style!*

If a Hoyt costs $650 to the dealer, and the dealer is required to bring in a certain quantity of Hoyts to have an account each year, say 15 bows, that is $9750 sitting on the wall. If he carries Mathews, its 25+ bows ($15,000), Bowtech is 25+ bows ($15,000), Martin is 20 bows ($12,000) etc, etc... before one new bow is sold he is into *THIS YEARS MODELS* some $36,500 for three bow lines so customers have a choice!!!

Now if that dealer has $2000 in rent/bills to pay just to stay open each month, and he sells all 10 Hoyts for suggested retail, say $850 for the AM32, I get a total of $6500 in cost of bows, and sales of $8500 which means that he paid his $2000 in operating costs *barely*. 

Now some guy from a thread like this starts bashing the local dealer because of his "high prices", so the shop bends to the pressure and lowers the price to $699 like many of you here have said they are selling for. For that dealer to even stay afloat he now has to sell 25 bows per month just to survive... that's 300 bows per year. After he reaches some 25 bows he gets to the next level of pricing (add 3-5% profit to him) but it still doesn't hardly clear his bills...or pay him anything extra to build on for next year - and he only gets that discount if he pays on a cash/COD basis or before the "Terms" are up. 
How many of your small-town shops sell 25 Hoyts each month on a year round basis? At a cost of $619, selling price of $699, the guy has to sell 25 bows *per month *to pay basic operating costs. 

For you shops selling below map or even below MSRP, you are making it hard on yourselves ... For you guys working hard to earn enough to have the "latest and Greatest" new bows each year ... would you take a 15-20% decrease in pay cause someone complained bout your high prices? Don't take this personally, that's my job as a shop owner who doesn't tell people bout sites like this anymore cause it hurts my bottom line. (period) 

The people to complain to/about are the manufacturers... the dealer is just trying to survive in most cases is giving customers a lot more for a lot less than they should ($) ... 

I am not a Hoyt or Mathews dealer anymore because they want me to carry only their brand and push it while only allowing me minimal margins (Hoyt is the worst in the industry!). 
My soapbox is tall, but it is built on 15 years retail experience and 25 yrs shooting bows. No brand should be demanding what they are and no small dealer should feel bargained into closing shop. Don't like the price? show the mfg by buying something more $ friendly from another company!:mg: They'll get the picture.


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## MightyElkHntr (Dec 13, 2006)

DONDEERE said:


> ...one thing is for sure...the guys that have been BEGGING for HOYT Dealerships may just get them next yeere...
> 
> ...because if there are in fact some of these units selling for the prices being bantied about in this thread...
> 
> ...


That breeds brand loyalty, doesn't it? "Let's see, I'll open with a brand who just dropped their 20 year partner next door and do better than they did." 
Yup, that right there explains why so many shops go under every year.


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## Crackers (Mar 9, 2004)

outbackarcher said:


> A company can't tell you what to sale a bow for. Hoyt tried this in 2006 and it didn't last long. They can give you a suggested retail and a minimum advertised price but that is about it. At my shop the 32's are $719.


You are mistaken. Under the new law they can tell you what you can sell them for and if you don't they can take the dealership.


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## terrym (Feb 25, 2005)

In Ontario an Alphamax 32 retails for $1050.00 + 13% sales tax so don't feel too hard done by guys.:greenwithenvy:

The problem is factorys don't sell to dealers here. There are Distributors who import them and add their own markups.


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## Crackers (Mar 9, 2004)

I know of a couple companies that are looking at having a MAP and MSP. The MSP (minimum selling price) could only be given in store, can not be given over the phone and can not be advertised.


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## DONDEERE (Sep 24, 2007)

MightyElkHntr said:


> That breeds brand loyalty, doesn't it? "Let's see, I'll open with a brand who just dropped their 20 year partner next door and do better than they did."
> Yup, that right there explains why so many shops go under every year.


..."brand loyalty" is bred by product quality and service, before, during and after the sale...

..."if" the Dealership lowers himself/herself or the product to the least common denominator, the "brand" *AND* the Dealer are lowered to the level of a common street prostitute...

...you want a Lexus, Mercedes, Cadillac, BMW or a Lincoln...you don't go shopping at the local Hyndui Dealer...

...but from reading this site especially, you'd think the Lexus, Mercedes, Cadillac, BMW or Lincoln guys should be selling at the Hundui price...otherwise the customer is being ripped off :mg:

..."if" a Dealer loses his "20 year partner"...or a Manufacturer loses their "20 year partner"...I'd bet is because one or the other has chosen to not live up to their end of the agreement between them!!...

...some Customers want and some Dealers are willing to sell Lexus and Mercedes...

...and some Customers want and some Dealers sell Hyndui...


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## DONDEERE (Sep 24, 2007)

Crackers said:


> I know of a couple companies that are looking at having a MAP and MSP. The MSP (minimum selling price) could only be given in store, can not be given over the phone and can not be advertised.


...I wondeere if the guys that posted some of these prices from there Local Shop realize they just put a gun to the Local Dealers heads and pulled the trigger??...

...if putting an Unauthorized price on the internet isn't "advertising", I don't know what is...

...and all for a brief period of internet notoriety...

...hum, amazing what some customers will do to trash their "dealer's" loyalty...

...bet there will be more than few contracts pulled out of the file in the morning!!...some around the Country, and I bet even more in Salt Lake City :mg:


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## hoyt88 (Nov 24, 2008)

got mine for 750 greensburg,indiana


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## MightyElkHntr (Dec 13, 2006)

I hate to say it, but there aren't many secrets with regards to archery pricing from my experience...too many guys have run a shop, worked for one, or helped out their local shop and they know the margins - which are nowhere near typical retail mark-up or "keystone pricing" as it is referred to in the industry.
Anyone who has taken even high school accounting or econ courses knows that in order to survive, a retail shop should be making somewhere around 30% minimum margin above cost of goods just to survive ... and yet so many dealers here on the web are making as little as 7-12% - forcing real pro-shops to look elsewhere for their livelyhood. 

I agree with what DONDEERE says, dealers can voluntarily choosing to sell one brand over the other (Porche vs Kia), but it's nice for customers when you can offer them a choice - not everyone can afford Ferrari, and many are very happy with even having a Suzuki! Why do you think here in Utah, Karl Malone the ex-pro basketball player opened car dealerships for just about every brand out there? 
Manufacturers have such high requirements for dealers to meet "minimum opening order" bow purchases (Hoyt, Bowtech and Mathews especially) at the beginning of each year that like my earlier post, it forces a dealer's hand on what they can afford to sell...and forces out other very good brands due to sheer overhead. So much for taking the "Switchback Challenge" - the local shop can't afford to bring in 50 bows (25 Mathews, 25 Hoyt) at the beginning of every new year - hence no challenge!

I also agree there needs to be quite a few Hoyt (and Mathews/Bowtech) dealerships pulled, starting with any dealer who advertises a new AM32 or 35 below 30% margin (*Oh wait, only the shops buying at tier 3 pricing would barely even qualify :mg *
*OR*
the manufacturers could quit having tiered pricing and put every dealer on a level field with higher surviveability potential, they could be more selective to the type of shop selling their brand (locally a guy who sells window blinds and has a window in the blind store where he displays 1-2 bows), the local 30,000 sf sports store with noone who knows what a peep is, and the gas station with 10sf of Hoyt in the back corner - all within 25 miles of each other), and the smart manufacturer would reduce minimum opening orders to a handful and not make the dealer be their warehouse, which forces them to only offer one brand, and lastly, :set1_punch: they could completely restrict internet pricing or sales at all.


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## MOBOW#1 (Jun 14, 2005)

I have to agree with DD on this one!!


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## Crackers (Mar 9, 2004)

I am amazed how many in the business can't understand this unless they work 40 hrs a week making more money then they really need and open their shop doors part time to just take care of their friends needs


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## mjcop518 (Nov 8, 2008)

Wow, look where this is going I think some people are missing the point or maybe they need to deal with a shop like we have too. You can only kick a man so long until he doesn't put up with it any longer. Remember the nickname for our local shop is "Green Rapers".

By the way the situation was taken care of here, a shop just to the south is selling the AM 32 for $729. What a difference!


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## Russ Holton (Mar 18, 2005)

*Same here.*



Pittfall said:


> Yeah, $699 at my shop also. $720 for the 35.


Same prices in Michigan as above. We have shops around here that are way out of line too. Shop around.


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## B3AV3R (Apr 19, 2006)

Russ Holton said:


> Same prices in Michigan as above. We have shops around here that are way out of line too. Shop around.


When you have more shops that are "way out of line" than in line, it may be a good indication your in line shop, is in fact, "way out of line".

Food for thought...


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## bigredZ (Jul 7, 2007)

*Obama can help*

Man those prices sound pretty high. Maybe in his efforts for gun control, he will promote archery equipment. Maybe we should send a request to the white house once a year for him to give us the money for a new bow. He seems to be going to give money to so many other folks, Y should we get left out?

Since he going to fix everything, we wont have to worry about prices any more.


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## B3AV3R (Apr 19, 2006)

In all seriousness, I wish manufacturers would just set prices so that all dealers were on a level playing field and the bickering would stop.

... Oh wait, they do, it's just that dealers aren't listening to them. 

It must be nice as a shop owner/manager to be able to say "Screw 'em, we'll have the lowest prices around and when they stop selling us bows, we'll just move on to another bow company."

You folks who buy from these low priced shops may, at some point, learn the hard way... When a limb breaks and you go back for warranty work only to find out that your shop is no longer allowed to sell your brand because they got caught giving them away. I truly hope it doesn't happen to any of you, but bear in mind that the possibility truly exists.


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## bowhnter7 (Dec 6, 2004)

xtremetj said:


> For $719 I would be buying me a new AM32 this year but my dealer is selling them for $849 ukey: I guess no new Hoyt for me!


Depending on how many bows the dealers buys there are different pricing tiers. If a dealer is just starting out or *don't sale many HOYT bows *then he will have to pay a lot more for the bows.


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## bowhnter7 (Dec 6, 2004)

xtremetj said:


> Okay.....I messed up the that post. Guess I need to learn how to use the quote feature
> 
> Greg.


Yeah but I still read it loud and clear............ouch Greg.


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## bigredZ (Jul 7, 2007)

Sometimes they work with you if they know that you going to drive several miles down the road to get it cheaper.


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## rmadduxjr (Jul 20, 2007)

<<<<You folks who buy from these low priced shops may, at some point, learn the hard way... >>>>

Don, I must be taking this the wrong way because it sounds like you are advocating buying bows from those who charge the most $$. I see you are connected with a sporting goods store. Would you personally pay someone $849 for the exact same thing you could buy 10 miles up the road for $700? If you were in the market for a new truck and dealer "A" had the one you wanted for $42,500 and dealer "B" right up the road had the exact same truck for $33,000 would there even be a choice to be made of whom to buy from? In this day and age where everything seems to be so exspensive, how can you blame someone for saving $$ when and where he can. I know some dealers get a better price for the volume they sell, but it always makes me think if dealer "A" can make a profit selling you a bow for $700, the guy charging $850 is making out like a bandit.


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## B3AV3R (Apr 19, 2006)

rmadduxjr said:


> <<<<You folks who buy from these low priced shops may, at some point, learn the hard way... >>>>
> 
> Don, I must be taking this the wrong way because it sounds like you are advocating buying bows from those who charge the most $$. I see you are connected with a sporting goods store. Would you personally pay someone $849 for the exact same thing you could buy 10 miles up the road for $700? If you were in the market for a new truck and dealer "A" had the one you wanted for $42,500 and dealer "B" right up the road had the exact same truck for $33,000 would there even be a choice to be made of whom to buy from? In this day and age where everything seems to be so exspensive, how can you blame someone for saving $$ when and where he can. I know some dealers get a better price for the volume they sell, but it always makes me think if dealer "A" can make a profit selling you a bow for $700, the guy charging $850 is making out like a bandit.


I understand what you're saying. Money is hard to come by these days, but you're comparing apples to oranges. Cars don't have protected pricing, bows are supposed to. 

Some dealers do get a SMALL break in price for quantity, but we're all supposed to sell them for the same amount. It's just frustrating to me to know that if I were selling these bows for $50 less than I was supposed to, there would still be dealers beating me by $100!

You don't have to believe me, but even if I were selling AM32's for the suggested $849, I would not be "making out like a bandit". And the guys that are selling them at $699 are not making money on them... I know what they cost.


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## B3AV3R (Apr 19, 2006)

... It's really frustrating to think that I have to sell these at $699 to be competitive, when I know damn well that if I do, Hoyt will pull the rug out from under me. 

I want to continue carrying these bows, but how am I supposed to compete if a guy can go somewhere else and purchase one from a dealer who is not concerned with making a profit or keeping the line in his store?


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## badbow148 (Dec 5, 2006)

xtremetj said:


> For $719 I would be buying me a new AM32 this year but my dealer is selling them for $849 ukey: I guess no new Hoyt for me!


Why don;t you buy from a box store or order one from them and pay shipping. Scheels sells Hoyt and Mathews also, there hole line.


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## xtremetj (Feb 15, 2004)

bowhnter7 said:


> Yeah but I still read it loud and clear............ouch Greg.


You know what......I need to appologize. 

I got a little fired up (very fired up) and didn't mean to rip like I did. I felt attached and responded poorly. I let my mouth get away from me. I just couldn't believe there could be such a price swing. I would love to own an archery shop and have no idea what it takes to run one with all the overhead. Please forgive my ignorance and the way I vented.

Greg.


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## rmadduxjr (Jul 20, 2007)

<<<<You don't have to believe me, but even if I were selling AM32's for the suggested $849, I would not be "making out like a bandit". And the guys that are selling them at $699 are not making money on them... I know what they cost. >>>>

I do believe you. I have been a business owner for almost 25 years in the land surveying industry. There is ALWAYS someone new on the block in my industry basically giving their services away to make a name for themselves. I sometimes lose customers (those whose bottom line is $$) but I get quite a few back because they know of the service I offer and that I will be here 2 or 5 years from now (hopefully). I always figured the guys selling the bows for $699 were trying to win new customers and hopefully make up the difference in accessories sold. The guys selling them for $849 are simply playing by the rules as set out by Hoyt and just trying to make a fair living doing so. I really don't know how archery shops make it. Try and charge a fair price for products and service performed and people think you are raping them. If you give your services away, you won't be in business very long. Tough business for sure. I do support my local shops and frequesnt them several times a week but I have to admit I will buy shafts from dealers on AT as the local shops around here just cost so much more.


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## badbow148 (Dec 5, 2006)

The area I live in sold the DXT for $850.00 last year and I could rive 90miles and save a $100.00 or more and more on the acc.. You bet I am going to drive that 90 miles. Local or not, no reason to get ripped off Hoyt or Mathews and Bowtech the same. You want to split the differ. then most will talk and work something out.


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## B3AV3R (Apr 19, 2006)

rmadduxjr said:


> <<<<You don't have to believe me, but even if I were selling AM32's for the suggested $849, I would not be "making out like a bandit". And the guys that are selling them at $699 are not making money on them... I know what they cost. >>>>
> 
> I do believe you. I have been a business owner for almost 25 years in the land surveying industry. There is ALWAYS someone new on the block in my industry basically giving their services away to make a name for themselves. I sometimes lose customers (those whose bottom line is $$) but I get quite a few back because they know of the service I offer and that I will be here 2 or 5 years from now (hopefully). I always figured the guys selling the bows for $699 were trying to win new customers and hopefully make up the difference in accessories sold. The guys selling them for $849 are simply playing by the rules as set out by Hoyt and just trying to make a fair living doing so. I really don't know how archery shops make it. Try and charge a fair price for products and service performed and people think you are raping them. If you give your services away, you won't be in business very long. Tough business for sure. I do support my local shops and frequesnt them several times a week but I have to admit I will buy shafts from dealers on AT as the local shops around here just cost so much more.


Sounds like you know what we're up against... 

Hey for what it's worth, those of you who are getting these great prices... good for you. I'm not trying to beat you up for it. I think it's great that you're saving money, especially in todays trying times of financial uncertainty. I'm just trying to explain to why some of us are unable or unwilling to be at those same prices... and forewarn you of the potential problems you could face, should you have a problem with your bows in the future.

Sorry if I sounded defensive...


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## badbow148 (Dec 5, 2006)

If I have very many possible problems with that bow the company that builds it will get the bow back and will buy another bow from differ. company and dealer if he is part of the problem.


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## no1huntmaster (Dec 30, 2006)

*Hoyt bow prices*

The real truth here like it or not....is the simple fact that the economy has never been this bad.
Any dealer that thinks he can get top prices for top end bows is living in a dream world.
Maybe some places the title wave of the bad economy and layoffs has not hit yet. I can assure you its on its way..... from the shores of Detroit.
Heck Hoyt has basically pulled their reflex line up to the Hoyt line.
similar limb pockets designs. Most bow lines are shrinking this year. 
I will pay about 760.00 max for a new bow. Otherwise will grab it used here on A.t. in about 7 months for 600.00.
I support the dealers totally, but if I thought I could really get these prices HELL.....I would be the one with the bow store. 

Just my .02$


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## MightyElkHntr (Dec 13, 2006)

Don Beaver said:


> ... It's really frustrating to think that I have to sell these at $699 to be competitive, when I know damn well that if I do, Hoyt will pull the rug out from under me.
> 
> I want to continue carrying these bows, but how am I supposed to compete if a guy can go somewhere else and purchase one from a dealer who is not concerned with making a profit or keeping the line in his store?


I quit carrying Hoyt cause of what DB is saying,,, they were selling them at two different shops within 25 miles of me for what they call "Employee Pricing" which is cost + $10 to cover shipping...they weren't advertising the price, but once one guy got the deal, everyone who wanted one went running - leaving me with my integrity (honoring my dealer CONTRACT) and a whole bunch of now overpriced bows that I couldn't (still can't) sell - which seriously cut into my income and ability to stock stuff I could sell. 

I wanted to continue with Mathews this coming year, till I started hearing on AT and 3D Shoots what some were pricing them at, and Mathews told me I had to buy 30 bows on COD/Credit card to keep the account - $18 grand for bows that I haven't even seen yet and are already selling for under $700 online? I don't think so - not in this economy!


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## a1hoyt.ca (Feb 3, 2008)

*a1hoyt.ca*

I was talking to one of the local dealers today and he said that Hoyt can suggest a price but it is up to the dealer to sell the bow for what ever he or she feels that they can get for them. SO LIKE HE SAID IF WANTS TO MAKE $100.00 DOLLARS OF THE BOW OR $200.00 OR MORE ITS UP TO THEM AND THATS THAT. Well hope this helps some dealers are going to go out of bus while the others who are reasonable will stay for the long hall and make everone happy one bow sale is not going to make there year he said its the return customer who gets a sight rests releases and lots of those things we love to shoot the arrows trhose are the type of customers they love not the one who only buys a bow and goes to cabelas or one of the other retail show stores to save a buck on he or shes equipment. If these shop owners value there customers they will find away to drop the bows price and make it so everyone can be and archer. ITS UP TO US AS THE CUSTOMER TO SAY B.S. DROP THE PRICE OR I CAN FIND ANOTHER DEALER TO GO TO GUYS IN ALASKA SORRY YOU ARE UP A CREEK BECAUSE OF THE SHIPPING CHARGES.


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## DONDEERE (Sep 24, 2007)

a1hoyt.ca said:


> I was talking to one of the local dealers today and he said that Hoyt can suggest a price but it is up to the dealer to sell the bow for what ever he or she feels that they can get for them. SO LIKE HE SAID IF WANTS TO MAKE $100.00 DOLLARS OF THE BOW OR $200.00 OR MORE ITS UP TO THEM AND THATS THAT. Well hope this helps some dealers are going to go out of bus while the others who are *reasonable *will stay for the long hall and make everone happy one bow sale is not going to make there year he said its the return customer who gets a sight rests releases and lots of those things we love to shoot the arrows trhose are the type of customers they love not the one who only buys a bow and goes to cabelas or one of the other retail show stores to save a buck on he or shes equipment. If these shop owners value there customers they will find away to drop the bows price and make it so everyone can be and archer. ITS UP TO US AS THE CUSTOMER TO SAY B.S. DROP THE PRICE OR I CAN FIND ANOTHER DEALER TO GO TO GUYS IN ALASKA SORRY YOU ARE UP A CREEK BECAUSE OF THE SHIPPING CHARGES.


...might I be so bold as to ask what you, or others posting in this thread or posting prices in this thread consider to be "reasonable"??...

...I tend to agree with some of your postage as I would bet all Dealers would and that would be the part about Dealers/Shops and "return customers"...

...we have and I know many other shop owners started their businesses for just this purpose...the "return" customer...and that is what allows the doors to stay open...

...not the guys who come and use your shooting lanes which you offer at "reasonable" rates to the Public, and who also uses your paper tuning rack, target faces, your press, your chrono, allen wrenches, grain scale, digital draw scale, high speed internet, bathrooms, at NO ADDITIONAL CHARGE and who like to "hint" about things you are doing WRONG because of what they read on the internet!!!...and how you could make MORE MONEY!!, yet buy their gear from AT classifieds or from internet based companies...

...these type of guys I'd bet are the very ones in threads like this one complaining about the "local price"...and yet they have no intention of ever being that "return" customer that allows the local Dealer to make enough revenue to survive so they can come in out of the weather and have a decent place to shoot arrows, leagues or just to shoot the bull...

...some of you replying in this thread about prices/dealers and the like haven't a clue...

...chances are you are desk jocky's, or paper pushers who have never ran and who never will operate your own businesses because you lack the initiative, knowledge or cannot assess risk properly...and therefore are merely internet quarterbacks...

..."reasonable"...all you guys that know how it "should be done"...tell me...what is "reasonable"...

...Dealers/Shop owners are all about RETURN CUSTOMERS..."we" at *THE LEGENDARY SPORTSMAN in HARRISON ARKANSAS* undeerestand that these folks are our bread and butter...

...I would wager you could not find anyone who has not been treated as they had wished to be treated, or who has not been given the proper information or who has not had each and every question answered for them when they enter our doors...

...we work hard everyday to prove ourselves to them...but it's easy sometimes to like some return customers better than others :darkbeer:

...but this "reasonable" thing has me puzzled...just what is "reasonable"...and how does it figure into the overall health and longevity of a particular shop in any given part of the Country...


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## Hemingway (Sep 7, 2005)

You guys crack me up... The same type people who label Obama a socialist (he probably is), want a "minimum allowable price" that a dealer can sell a bow for. Pot meet kettle. 

Let dealers sell bows for what ever they want and let the market figure it out. You archery shop dealers chose the business your in, no one chose it for you. Don't like it? Not making enough money? Maybe you should get out, but don't blame the customers for looking for the best deal.


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## brian smith (Sep 27, 2007)

The easiest way to beat it is just to shop around. Alot of times the archery stores that sell the highest quantity of hoyt bows per year get a better price from the manufacturer for puchasing high volume. Therefor they can sell the bows cheaper than the smaller shops that dont sell so many bows. You may have to spend 40.00 on gas, but it could save you 100.00 on purchase price. """"""BUT""""" that means your local shop will probably charge a arm and a leg if you need it worked on. ---- 6 in one hand, half a dozen in the other. ----


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## bowhnter7 (Dec 6, 2004)

xtremetj said:


> You know what......I need to appologize.
> 
> I would love to own an archery shop and have no idea what it takes to run one with all the overhead. Please forgive my ignorance and the way I vented.
> 
> Greg.


Apology accepted.

Really? I know of one or two for sale if ya really wanna find you "love".


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## bowhuntercody (Mar 21, 2007)

xtremetj said:


> That's a bunch of crap if you ask me! The manufactures won't let you order/buy from someone else when your dealer is sticking it to you! It just really sucks. I realize everyone is in business to make a living and I do respect that but when there is such a huge price difference it just really pisses me off! I'll bet $100 bucks it the same shop I go to. He sells everything in the shop for retail, accessories and all. Then they wonder when someone shows up with rest from somewhere else why they didn't buy it from them. Then when you buy everything from him including a couple bows a year they won't even give or offer you some sort of discount. I'll get off my soap box now.



sound like the shop "Old Town Archery Center" in Old Town maine. Someof his prices are ABOVE msrp and I don't mean by a few bucks either. I won't buy a thing from there and after the last tuning job i had done I won't be doing that again either. 
I know they are in bussiness to make a living but you don't have to screw people in the process.:thumbs_do:thumbs_do:thumbs_do


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## RxBowhunter (Feb 16, 2005)

Can someone explain how a hunting bow should start approaching in price to a nice high-powered rifle? The rifle holds it's value and the bow drops like a new car off the lot. :noidea: I'm just asking............


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## Stump Shooter (Apr 13, 2006)

RxBowhunter said:


> Can someone explain how a hunting bow should start approaching in price to a nice high-powered rifle? The rifle holds it's value and the bow drops like a new car off the lot. :noidea: I'm just asking............


Exactly! I know this will never happen, but it should! No one buy a new bow for a year to send the message that in no way, shape or form should a hunting bow cost $800+. $900 for a bow in some places? You have to be smokin crack to pay that amount for a hunting bow. That is insanity.

But I guess there will always be enough people that have deep pockets that always have to have the latest and greatest to fuel what the bow companies are doing.


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## j3dgu (Jan 18, 2006)

I don't mind paying up to $800 for a top end Hoyt bow because I feel they are worth it. Will it retain its paid value? NO, and I don't expect it too. I don't see it as an investment. I pay for a precison crafted machine that is built to withstand the hunting environment and 3d course that will not fail on me if I do my part. It is purely for enjoyment. It is not a collectors item and most likely not be passed down to your 2 yr old son when he gets old enough to shoot it. If its out of your budget get a lesser priced model or different bow company. There are so many to choose from.


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## B3AV3R (Apr 19, 2006)

RxBowhunter said:


> Can someone explain how a hunting bow should start approaching in price to a nice high-powered rifle? The rifle holds it's value and the bow drops like a new car off the lot. :noidea: I'm just asking............


I justify it like this...

I can bowhunt 3 months out of the year, while our rifle season is just 15 days, of which I'm lucky to hunt two days.

Plus I like my bows a LOT more...


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## Q2DEATH (May 12, 2003)

mjcop518 said:


> I think my local shop (only Hoyt Dealer in area): is trying to rip everybody off, checked on the Alphamax prices and got $879.00 for the 32. What should be the going rate?



899.00 in NM


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## Nameless Hunter (Feb 10, 2007)

A nice high end rifle cost a lot because of it's materials, precision and level of quality.
Ditto for high end bows.

A high end rifle costs no more to make than a high end bow (maybe less) - it's all just machining and materials.

As to losing value, try selling your year old high end rifle back to the dealer you bought it from. If your lucky, you'll get 60%. I know - I've bought and sold a lot of rifles...



RxBowhunter said:


> Can someone explain how a hunting bow should start approaching in price to a nice high-powered rifle? The rifle holds it's value and the bow drops like a new car off the lot. :noidea: I'm just asking............


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## Nameless Hunter (Feb 10, 2007)

My hunting grounds are just the opposite. One month of bow and two months of rifle. So far it's been exactly one weekend of bow this year (shot a pig) and one weekend of muzzleloader (shot a buck). 

But I did beat the price monster - picked up my 08 Katera in Oct. for 30% off. Try that with a rifle - not gonna happen.




Don Beaver said:


> I justify it like this...
> 
> I can bowhunt 3 months out of the year, while our rifle season is just 15 days, of which I'm lucky to hunt two days.
> 
> Plus I like my bows a LOT more...


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## bigbowman14 (Sep 14, 2006)

850 here in va


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## DONDEERE (Sep 24, 2007)

Hemingway said:


> You guys crack me up... The same type people who label Obama a socialist (he probably is), want a "minimum allowable price" that a dealer can sell a bow for. Pot meet kettle.
> 
> Let dealers sell bows for what ever they want and let the market figure it out. You archery shop dealers chose the business your in, no one chose it for you. Don't like it? Not making enough money? Maybe you should get out, but don't blame the customers for looking for the best deal.


...YO, riddle me this HEMINGWAY...why do we have a "minimum wage law" in this country if the "market" is the field on which we play the game??...


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## Hemingway (Sep 7, 2005)

DONDEERE said:


> ...YO, riddle me this HEMINGWAY...why do we have a "minimum wage law" in this country if the "market" is the field on which we play the game??...


To create inflation, why else? :noidea:


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## rmadduxjr (Jul 20, 2007)

I can sell the rifle I bought 15 years ago for more than I paid for it. I can't hardly get 1/2 of what I paid for a bow 2 years ago today.


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## DONDEERE (Sep 24, 2007)

Hemingway said:


> To create inflation, why else? :noidea:


...if this is your reply to my query, who then pays for this inflation...from what I'm reading the end user doesn't think they should...do you??...

...riddle me another one HEMINGWAY...what does society have if we don't have laws and rules that are followed??...

...the answer is what you are asking the Dealer/Manufacturer network (The Market) to become...


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## malott (Aug 20, 2006)

Donchalmers I mean Deere  I will be right up front and say I have no knowledge on running an archery shop but basically the way it looks is Hoyt has put the dealers in this situation we are discussing for making the small archery shop that struggles to pay bills pay more for the bows right off the bat. So if Hoyt would charge every dealer big or small the same price for these bows we wouldn't see such a large price difference from dealer to dealer. Now this next statement is meant as a question so..... Wouldn't most dealers make more money in the long run if they gave the customer a good deal on the bow so they could spend more money in the shop on all the accessories? I don't know how the mark up is on most accessories but I would think the buyer would be more likely to say go ahead and give me those sights and just give me whatever rest and arrows you think would work best for my set up. I have seen where other people have posted about the their dealers being so high on the bows that they would have to go to retail stores to buy their accessories.


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## bowhuntermitch (May 17, 2005)

Pretty sure they are 849$ in fargo...if not 869$


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## Kamongear (Jun 2, 2007)

Something like $799.00 for AM35 & $749.00 for AM32 here in Houston! 
Based on what I've been reading here so far, those are good prices. 

I was informed that Hoyt has not started shipping them out in LH yet. Is that true?


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## DONDEERE (Sep 24, 2007)

malott said:


> Donchalmers


...*SAY WHAT!!!!! :mg:*

...you really know how to hurt a guy...LOL 




malott said:


> I mean Deere  I will be right up front and say I have no knowledge on running an archery shop


*...thats fine MALOTT...ignorance of those kinds of things hasn't stopped anyone else in this thread from posting either!! *



malott said:


> but basically the way it looks is Hoyt has put the dealers in this situation we are discussing for making the small archery shop that struggles to pay bills pay more for the bows right off the bat.


*...the price invoiced to each Dealer is a "BASE PRICE" similar to the Automotive industry, or others who use this method..."incentives" are put in place that allow a Dealer to reduce his/her overall product cost by "growing" their business(number of bows in this example) and therefore receive additional discounts in the price per unit...

...remember these are "incentives" not "give me's"...and yes, Dealers who are able to take advantage of these incentives have a slightly lower cost per unit...but not the HUGE amount as I feel many in this thread may think it is... *



malott said:


> So if Hoyt would charge every dealer big or small the same price for these bows we wouldn't see such a large price difference from dealer to dealer.


*...why not allow the Dealer (Big or Small) the ability to "charge" the same for these bows, why is it you are placing the "blame" upon HOYT in your argument??...*



malott said:


> Now this next statement is meant as a question so.....


*...okay, cool, I like questions from inquireing minds *



malott said:


> Wouldn't most dealers make more money in the long run if they gave the customer a good deal on the bow so they could spend more money in the shop on all the accessories?


*...NO...at some of the prices being bantied about in this thread, virtually NO MONEY is being made on the bow itself...ESPECIALLY if you are at the early stages of "growing" your business in order to receive the "incentives" offered by the Manufacturers...and even if you are at teh "maximum" incentive level the "profit" is unrealistic if one expects the shop to be open past the end of the month!!...and at this point if the shop is competative on accessories, there is no way enough profit left to compensate for the lack of profit on the bow...*



malott said:


> I don't know how the mark up is on most accessories but I would think the buyer would be more likely to say go ahead and give me those sights and just give me whatever rest and arrows you think would work best for my set up.


*...for some this might be the case(damnit I can't believe I said CASE  )...but for many, they swap accessories from an older bow...for those who are in need of NEW accessories, they most times don't simply give the Dealer Cart Blance...they are wanting the best value for the price paid and this is where the Dealer "earns" the respect of his Customers...by providing them with competent information about the products and the value they offer for the price paid...NO DEALER IN HIS RIGHT MIND WANTS THE CUSTOMER TO SPEND MORE THAN THEY ARE ABLE...or wants them to spend good money on products that perform poorly...that what the Wal-Marts are in business for  ...there "should be a reason" why they come to a "PRO SHOP" ...and what I just described is it!! :shade:*



malott said:


> I have seen where other people have posted about the their dealers being so high on the bows that they would have to go to retail stores to buy their accessories.


*...thats a bunch of "internet posting CRAP" as far as I'm concerned...unless it's a whisker biscuit or a cheaper stabilizer or a cheap set of arrows, PROFESSIONAL BOW SHOPS'S accessories are not something you will find at the local Wal-Mart or Bass Pro store...and even if they are the same product many times at Archery Shops thay are in FACT priced to compete with the big boxes or possibly found at a slightly higher price due the FACT the big boxes are able to buy products from the Manufacturer on that "incentive" program I spoke of earlier...whether a guy is spending $300, $500 $800 or a $1000 for a new "bare" bow, yet complains because a particular rest or sight might be a few dollars higher than he can get one for off the internet or local "big box"...he is a poor shopper and is not factoring in all he/she needs to in order to make a wise decision...ie: additional drive time, gasoline costs, personal time, shipping costs and the like...many times if they are unwilling to pay the same or slightly higher price for a product while they are "in the store", they will be unpleasently suprised that with the additional cost illustrated above that their "bargin accessory" just cost them MORE than if they would have purchesed and had it installed at the Archery Shop...*

*...I appreciate the opportunity to reply to you questions MALOTT :shade:*


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## malott (Aug 20, 2006)

I appreciate your reply that clears up several things that I had question about. I feel you made a good CASE. Oops! sorry.


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## DONDEERE (Sep 24, 2007)

malott said:


> I appreciate your reply that clears up several things that I had question about. I feel you made a good CASE. Oops! sorry.


*...Glad to oblige MALOTT...now when you go to sleep tonight...THINK GREEN ...it will break you of that nasty word!!! *


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## Hemingway (Sep 7, 2005)

DONDEERE said:


> ...if this is your reply to my query, who then pays for this inflation...from what I'm reading the end user doesn't think they should...do you??...
> 
> ...riddle me another one HEMINGWAY...what does society have if we don't have laws and rules that are followed??...
> 
> ...the answer is what you are asking the Dealer/Manufacturer network (The Market) to become...


Who pays for inflation? Well we all do to some degree. What's your point? Oh and yep, I want the "Dealer/Manufacturer network" to become the wild west of capitalism, just like it's supposed to be. You a union man?


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## malott (Aug 20, 2006)

> Originally Posted by malott
> So if Hoyt would charge every dealer big or small the same price for these bows we wouldn't see such a large price difference from dealer to dealer.
> 
> ...why not allow the Dealer (Big or Small) the ability to "charge" the same for these bows, why is it you are placing the "blame" upon HOYT in your argument??...


I thought I had better explain why I made this statement. I read in one of your post earlier about a 3 tier pricing and I was unaware of what the price difference was between the lowest to highest tier and thought that might make a difference on what the bows would be sold for. That is why I was leaning toward possible Hoyt being able to solve this by charging every dealer the same amount. I wasn't aware that the price between the tiers was small.


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## Crackers (Mar 9, 2004)

Most companies have these tiers but not so the businesses that could afford to buy more could also sell for less.


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## MightyElkHntr (Dec 13, 2006)

RxBowhunter said:


> Can someone explain how a hunting bow should start approaching in price to a nice high-powered rifle? The rifle holds it's value and the bow drops like a new car off the lot. :noidea: I'm just asking............


I'll try to paint a picture for ya...

The high powered rifle hasn't had any real major innovation for many, many years ... (rem. bdl or adl as an example) while every year the archery industry brings new technology to the table (research & development, machine costs, etc...). The rifle companies who have put new stuff out there are pricing them just like the new bows...$5K and up before you put the $1200 Swaro (equiv. $200 wrapped hoggit hunter) scope on it :mg:

The new bows lose their value so fast for the same reason, the new stuff knocks last year's stuff to the "old news" bin in a hurry.


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## a1hoyt.ca (Feb 3, 2008)

*alphamax priceing/a1hoyt.ca*

How far is to far maybe we as archers need to walk out of these high priced shops and try and find other shops that are reasonable so all can enjoy these really nice bows that are out there. EVERY ARCHER DESEARVES A NEW BOW SETUP NOW AND THEN. Lets make this happen by walking out and saveing our money and tell the dealers that are too expensive to figure it out because this is the reason cabalas and sportsmans werehouse are in the bow bus we all need too tell these dealers THAT ENOUGH IS ENOUGH DROP PRICES CAUSE BOWS AT THESE OTHER PLACES ARE LOOKING REALLY GOOD TO A LOT OF PEOPLE. I KNOW SEVERAL GUYS THAT WENT TO THESE PLACES AND BOUGHT BOW PACKAGES BECAUSE THE PRO SHOPS PRICEING SCARED THEM AWAY. GET SERIOUS GET HOYT I HAVE TO KATERAS ONE BLK AND CHROME AND ONE CAMO APG. MONEY FOR ME IS NOT THAT BIG AND ISSUE CAUSE IF I WANT IT I WILL BY IT. But we need to let the dealers know that there prices are to high and guys and gals will go to retail stores to buy a setup . That hurts all pro shops. a1hoyt.ca.


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## DONDEERE (Sep 24, 2007)

a1hoyt.ca said:


> How far is to far maybe we as archers need to walk out of these high priced shops and try and find other shops that are reasonable so all can enjoy these really nice bows that are out there. EVERY ARCHER DESEARVES A NEW BOW SETUP NOW AND THEN. Lets make this happen by walking out and saveing our money and tell the dealers that are too expensive to figure it out because this is the reason cabalas and sportsmans werehouse are in the bow bus we all need too tell these dealers THAT ENOUGH IS ENOUGH DROP PRICES CAUSE BOWS AT THESE OTHER PLACES ARE LOOKING REALLY GOOD TO A LOT OF PEOPLE. I KNOW SEVERAL GUYS THAT WENT TO THESE PLACES AND BOUGHT BOW PACKAGES BECAUSE THE PRO SHOPS PRICEING SCARED THEM AWAY. GET SERIOUS GET HOYT I HAVE TO KATERAS ONE BLK AND CHROME AND ONE CAMO APG. MONEY FOR ME IS NOT THAT BIG AND ISSUE CAUSE IF I WANT IT I WILL BY IT. But we need to let the dealers know that there prices are to high and guys and gals will go to retail stores to buy a setup . That hurts all pro shops. a1hoyt.ca.


...Yo, EINSTEIN...I'll try and type s-l-o-w so you can get all this...

...archery shops a-r-e retail stores :mg:

...I know, it's like when you actually t-h-i-n-k a-b-o-u-t i-t, it all starts to become cleere 

...a question...you get those Hoyt's at the local Wal-Mart or the local Bass Pro "retail store"...

...I thought so :shade:

...I'd also wager that you think you should be able to buy your next New Prius from the local Lexus or BMW Dealer??...or possibly buy a Lexus or Beemer for the cost of that Prius??...which is it??...

...if an Archery Dealer or Archery Pro Shop chooses to handle the very same brands as the local Bass Pro or Cabela's and is a great deal higher in price and does not offer the increased "value" he/she wishes to convey to their customers via whatever means to allow the customer to see that their higher price is worth paying, then this can be a problem for the Shop who's brands are in direct competition with the mega-low-marts...

...but when these shops are far away from their competition and getting to a mega-low-mart requires an hour, two hours or more in travel time, add in the gasoline/diesel costs and possibly a meal while they are at it for the sake of saving $25, $30 or even $50 bucks...

...it's not the Archery Shop who's screwing the customer...the customer is the one at that point who becomes a hermaphradite...but it's done everyday, walk over dollars to pickup what ends up being a penny or a dime...

...if in fact the local archery shop is $50 more for the very same package as you find at a lower price at the big box, chances are, even though the big box price is lower, the big box is making more profit due to the scale of economics and the "volume" incentives derived by their sheer volume level of buying...

...and all the time you think the local guy is screwing you, all's he's attempted to do is to provide you with a good product at a "reasonable" price...

...it's an amazing process at which some scratch their heads at


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## DONDEERE (Sep 24, 2007)

malott said:


> I thought I had better explain why I made this statement. I read in one of your post earlier about a 3 tier pricing and I was unaware of what the price difference was between the lowest to highest tier and thought that might make a difference on what the bows would be sold for.


*...the difference in the invoiced cost of the bows really wouldn't even be enough to pay the interest if one would have to borrow the money to buy enough additional bows to "reach" the next tier...it only works well when the Dealers business grows "on it's own" to a point the next level is achieved on it's own merits...*




malott said:


> That is why I was leaning toward possible Hoyt being able to solve this by charging every dealer the same amount.


*...I undeerestand your view on the matter...but think of this view point...

...what if HOYT or other Manufacturer's by using legally available means, allowed the Retailers (big or small) to compete on a level playing field amongst themselves using their respective strengths or weaknesees...

...in the Archery business, which whether we like it or not, is a niche market...regardless if you are a big mega-low-mart or small country shop...this would be as close to NIRVANA for both business and customer...allowing each to bloom where they are planted!!...*




malott said:


> I wasn't aware that the price between the tiers was small.


*...well, let's just say it's obvious others replying in this thread weren't either!! *


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## DONDEERE (Sep 24, 2007)

Hemingway said:


> the wild west


...the answer is ANARCHY...



Hemingway said:


> You a union man?


...as long as it's between a woman and a man, YES...


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## simonjack (Nov 24, 2008)

*hi*

knew they were high. Guess thats why they call them Green Rapers!


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## spiaailtli (Sep 5, 2007)

DONDEERE said:


> ...
> 
> thats a bunch of "internet posting CRAP" as far as I'm concerned...unless it's a whisker biscuit or a cheaper stabilizer or a cheap set of arrows, PROFESSIONAL BOW SHOPS'S accessories are not something you will find at the local Wal-Mart or Bass Pro store...and even if they are the same product many times at Archery Shops thay are in FACT priced to compete with the big boxes or possibly found at a slightly higher price due the FACT the big boxes are able to buy products from the Manufacturer on that "incentive" program I spoke of earlier...whether a guy is spending $300, $500 $800 or a $1000 for a new "bare" bow, yet complains because a particular rest or sight might be a few dollars higher than he can get one for off the internet or local "big box"...he is a poor shopper and is not factoring in all he/she needs to in order to make a wise decision...ie: additional drive time, gasoline costs, personal time, shipping costs and the like...many times if they are unwilling to pay the same or slightly higher price for a product while they are "in the store", they will be unpleasently suprised that with the additional cost illustrated above that their "bargin accessory" just cost them MORE than if they would have purchesed and had it installed at the Archery Shop


Well, You're wrong. Same company, same package, etc. The fact is proshops use this to try and justify charging more is really a con.

My proshop charges $150 more for the same bow sold by another proshop 1 hour away. They also charge $55 more for the sight, $30-$40 more fofr a rest, as much as $20 more for broadheads, etc. This adds up to about $500 on a backage deal over what I can get anywhere else. I'd be pretty stupid o pay those prices.

Mr Tractor dude, your habit of calling customers names may be part of the reason your business is having trouble. You call people idots, stupid, ec. You slam internet sells yet at the same time are inprocess of creating your own internet site for the purpose of selling archery products. Talk about being two faces and poor business pratice!

Other indrustries learned it is much better to be honest with people. It's just oo easy for people to find out the truth today. The shops that are surviving are those selling for a fair price and charging people for services or range time. They make no such claims as you do. Their customers know what they are paying for bows, setup, and range fees. You're is a classic example of a shop everyone on here is complaining about. Someone that thinks he's smarter than everyone else and tha gives him the right to screw people and treat them poorly. Unless you are in a very remote area your shops days a numbered. You can continue to play around trying this tha and the other, but one day you admit and conceed. All you are really doing is building up more resentment for those who have figured out how to run a business and make a profit.

If there is truely no money to be made in archery equipment retail today...get out. People try to make money doing things they enjoy. It doesn't always work out for them. Soemtimes the idea is wrong, sometimes they just don't know how to run a business, some don't know how to treat people, and some have all of these issues!


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## spiaailtli (Sep 5, 2007)

One more thing for you to think about. Here you are trying to grow your business. You start an Internet site and advertise it on here, a site with 100k users? Everyone single person on this site is could be a customer. When you call them dumb, stupid, idiots, etc do you think they'll buy stuff from you? It sounds to me like you need every customer you can get but yet you're doing your best to run them off!

If you would have came on this site and said I can't compete with the internet sites, or box stores so I'm opening my own, then people might feel compasion for you and order via the internet, email, whatever. Nope, you bash them while doing the same and call people names because they don't argree with you.

Do you think Crackers would call me or any other future customer on this site idiots? It's one thing to think it, and quiet another to say it.

I've worked in companys as small as two people. I do understand what it takes. I've also worked for companies that have gross incomes of over $20 billion per year.

While working there I spent between 1,000,000 and $4,000,000 every year on technology. When I ordered computer equipment I did business with a local guy that charge a little higher prices. I knew he was honest and if he told me the sky was going to be green in the morning somehow he would figure out how to make it happen. I could call him up and say I need $350k worth of monitors but I can get the PO cut until after the date I need them shipped. He simple asked where I needed them delivered and on what day. Why? Because I always treated him with respect too and never failed to deliever. Trust and customer service are must in business. Understanding who your customers are and not running them off is key too.


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## Q2DEATH (May 12, 2003)

How in the hell can a thread about bow prices be turned into a political discussion!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Can't you people just get over that crap and move on? Don't like the pres? Tough shizz, do something to change that 4 years from now instead of crying on the damned A.T. and Bowsite and any other HUNTING website. 

There are probably a million websites for all you amatuer Wolf Blitzers and Anderson Coopers. There's a damned forum for you right here on this site. USE IT.

I've had to deal with two years of stupid commercials, people knocking on my damn door, email spam and mailings. The election is finally over, whats done is done and I should be able to get through the F'N day without hearing any political B. F'N S.!!!!!!!!!!!!! But no, I gotta get on some hunting websites to kill some time at work, open some threads that should have nothing to do with politics and find that you people just can't get over it!!!!!!!!!!!

GET F'N OVER IT and SHUT UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1


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## malott (Aug 20, 2006)

Well I thought the title to this thread was "Hoyt Alphamax pricing? Being ripped off"! So I would figure that the purpose of this thread is to discuss what the price is of this bow across the country? Right? And doing so I think we would need to have some who are aware of how the system works voice their opinion or thoughts on the prices we are paying for these products and why. If clicking on a public forum where people are discussing subjects that was asked about bothers you maybe you need something else to help pass the time while you are suppose to be working. :darkbeer:


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## MOBOW#1 (Jun 14, 2005)

malott said:


> Well I thought the title to this thread was "Hoyt Alphamax pricing? Being ripped off"! So I would figure that the purpose of this thread is to discuss what the price is of this bow across the country? Right? And doing so I think we would need to have some who are aware of how the system works voice their opinion or thoughts on the prices we are paying for these products and why. If clicking on a public forum where people are discussing subjects that was asked about bothers you maybe you need something else to help pass the time while you are suppose to be working. :darkbeer:


I am Lost: I thought we were playing Trivia Oh wait wrong site Now mallott get back to work before your boss Jackson catches ya:darkbeer:


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## DONDEERE (Sep 24, 2007)

spiaailtli said:


> Well, You're wrong. Same company, same package, etc. The fact is proshops use this to try and justify charging more is really a con.
> 
> My proshop charges $150 more for the same bow sold by another proshop 1 hour away. They also charge $55 more for the sight, $30-$40 more fofr a rest, as much as $20 more for broadheads, etc. This adds up to about $500 on a backage deal over what I can get anywhere else. I'd be pretty stupid o pay those prices.
> 
> ...


...hehe, I guess if you don't read all the posts, you'll reply with something along these lines!!


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## DONDEERE (Sep 24, 2007)

spiaailtli said:


> One more thing for you to think about. Here you are trying to grow your business. You start an Internet site and advertise it on here, a site with 100k users? Everyone single person on this site is could be a customer. When you call them dumb, stupid, idiots, etc do you think they'll buy stuff from you? It sounds to me like you need every customer you can get but yet you're doing your best to run them off!
> 
> If you would have came on this site and said I can't compete with the internet sites, or box stores so I'm opening my own, then people might feel compasion for you and order via the internet, email, whatever. Nope, you bash them while doing the same and call people names because they don't argree with you.
> 
> ...


...again, I find it interesting that you read but do not comprehende my replies :mg:

...this thread is not about me or my business, as I have stated, we do well competing against those you say we do not...

...we have a fantastic customer base and it grows larger everyday as well as our deposits...

...that fact you think I have a web site simply in order to "sell" over the internet shows shows just how little you really do know...but as your above reply shows, that won't stop you from replying about things you are unaware of...

...and thats fine, I enjoy educating those in need :darkbeer:


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## xibowhunter (Mar 18, 2003)

i saw one place nearby had them for 899.99


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## Flip Flop (Jan 1, 2005)

AM 32 $782

AM 35 $815 with one free tune up after 200 shots here in Michigan


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## tuskbuster (Apr 8, 2006)

is this thing still going???????????


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## Nameless Hunter (Feb 10, 2007)

*Real Simple*

If you don't want to pay what your local dealer asks, then drive someplace else. Otherwise, either wait a few months and buy used or buy new when the dealers clear out for next year's models. :shade:
Business is business...


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## 4X-24 BOB (Jul 4, 2003)

Crackers said:


> You are mistaken. Under the new law they can tell you what you can sell them for and if you don't they can take the dealership.


 I didnt know they had changed the law ! Different commodities but same thing . Back in the 80's a chemical company called American Cyanimid had the best soybean chemical available , they told us what we would retail it for and hold this so called black box money over everyones head to enforce it . Am Cy was THE biggest in the 80's they are no more !! Taken to court for price fixing and lost . Today it is Monsanto trying to do the same thing in the seed business, only a matter of time !! 
Pioneer seed sets the price but your local dealer is not a dealer but an agent for pioneer . Pioneer still owns the seed and the local guy sells it for them . That is what the bow companies should do if they want all dealers to be the same price . It would not put such a strain on a dealer tryin to come up with the cash to stock all the Hoyts that you and I would like to look at ! I may be mistaken but I think WalMart works like this . They do not own a thing in their store till they sell it .
I dont think there would be many Hoyt / Mathews dealers or Hoyt/PSE dealers though ! 
Just my .02$ if I pay money for an item . Then I own the item . There for I should be able to sell what I OWN for what ever I want ! :mg: 
This is my longest post ever ! Sorry guys !


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## DONDEERE (Sep 24, 2007)

4X-24 BOB said:


> I didnt know they had changed the law ! Different commodities but same thing . Back in the 80's a chemical company called American Cyanimid had the best soybean chemical available , they told us what we would retail it for and hold this so called black box money over everyones head to enforce it . Am Cy was THE biggest in the 80's they are no more !! Taken to court for price fixing and lost .


...yep 4X-24 BOB, they sure did change it...it had been challenged in court and this time the court rightly said that the manufacturer was able to protect the market integrity of his own PROPRIETARY product so someone couldn't hore the product out for the sake of attempting to gather additional customers "strictly over price"(essentially 'giving" it away) and ruining the market integrity of the specialized product... 




4X-24 BOB said:


> Today it is Monsanto trying to do the same thing in the seed business, only a matter of time !!


...Today Monsanto has a much better opportunity to keep their PROPRIETARY products PROPRIETARY...kind of like keeping a patented product from being used by another manufacturer without "paying" for the "right" to it's use...

...and in my opinion, Monsanto should have the right to keep it's "specialty" products special and not allow every Farmer Tom, Farmer Dick and Farmer Harry to use them without paying for that right...

...just because a farmer can "save seed" doesn't mean they should not be made to "pay" for the PROPRIETARY technology they now are saving the seed for!!...

...otherwise there is always seed available to save that does not have the newest PROPRIETARY technology and does not require payment in kind 




4X-24 BOB said:


> Pioneer seed sets the price but your local dealer is not a dealer but an agent for pioneer . Pioneer still owns the seed and the local guy sells it for them . That is what the bow companies should do if they want all dealers to be the same price . It would not put such a strain on a dealer tryin to come up with the cash to stock all the Hoyts that you and I would like to look at ! I may be mistaken but I think WalMart works like this . They do not own a thing in their store till they sell it .
> I dont think there would be many Hoyt / Mathews dealers or Hoyt/PSE dealers though !


...hum, I would very much entertain this manner of doing business as a means to help the overall health of the Archery Industry...at least it's worth thinking about!! :darkbeer:




4X-24 BOB said:


> Just my .02$ if I pay money for an item . Then I own the item . There for I should be able to sell what I OWN for what ever I want ! :mg:


...indeed, but if you want "anymore" of the item, you will need to read and comprehend the contract you signed that allowed you to even get the item in the first place!! 


4X-24 BOB said:


> This is my longest post ever ! Sorry guys !


...no need to be sorry, the information you provided is valuable :shade:


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## turkeyjack884 (Apr 1, 2008)

749 =32"
799 =35"
central pa


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## muleyman (Dec 27, 2003)

My nearest dealer is 35 miles away..$849 for AM32 with no tuning or real expertise....my next nearest dealer is 70 miles away....no place to shoot but does know bows and could tune if I needed $849. Anyone know of someplace I can get one for $750+- through the mail?? PM me if necessary.(living in the sticks is great but it does limit the options)


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## sillysilohunter (Aug 9, 2008)

915 after tax here. for my 32


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## Bowtech531 (Apr 2, 2008)

Around me The 32 is 839$ and the 35 is 869$, I waited til the end of the year this past year and picked up a Brand new Katera for 599$. they new the Alpha were coming out and wanted to get rid of the stock they had.

The dealers need to make a buck but some of them are way out of hand sometimes.


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## markman (Apr 14, 2007)

Ordered mine last week, $849.00 Well worth it!!!!!!!!


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## Punch_Free4L (Mar 25, 2007)

MOTU said:


> If you don't want to pay what your local dealer asks, then drive someplace else. Otherwise, either wait a few months and buy used or buy new when the dealers clear out for next year's models. :shade:
> Business is business...


Yeah,this is what I was thinking.
Just wait a year or so,then when everybody has to 'upgrade' their bows,they will sell them for 4 or $500.00 TYD here at AT.:darkbeer:


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## FallFever (Mar 8, 2003)

AM32 = $739.00
AM35 = $759.00

ff


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## Drew360 (Oct 23, 2002)

AM 32 

MSRP I was told is $849 by a few different shops.

$825 is the best price I found locally.


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## Kill Shill (Sep 23, 2008)

I will drive 2 highway hours 1 way for the best price on a Hoyt.


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## FatDogX (Dec 18, 2008)

The local shop here (Scheels Sports) in ND. is selling the Alpha Max for 849.00. 

With the difference in prices all over the place, why don’t guys post a website or the name of the place where the best deals are? Might be able to help out the guys with shops that have the higher prices.


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## Crackers (Mar 9, 2004)

FatDogX said:


> The local shop here (Scheels Sports) in ND. is selling the Alpha Max for 849.00.
> 
> With the difference in prices all over the place, why don’t guys post a website or the name of the place where the best deals are? Might be able to help out the guys with shops that have the higher prices.



Although many prices are fact there are those that are not and if shops are mentioned there could be repercussions down the road after Hoyt finds out.


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## sillysilohunter (Aug 9, 2008)

915 after tax 4 my am 32 in washington state, startin to feel like I got took!


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## FatDogX (Dec 18, 2008)

Crackers said:


> Although many prices are fact there are those that are not and if shops are mentioned there could be repercussions down the road after Hoyt finds out.



It may but I doubt it, it may also might be a wake up call the those shops that are making a killing. There are tons of consumer goods that price vary from store to store, that's just a way of life. Why as a consumer / buyer should we be forced to pay a higher price just because where we live and the stores around us. If someone can find a lower priced item and then give their local shop a chance to match it, what's wrong with that? Most people shop around before they make a big purchase, this is a big purchase and is no different.


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## DONDEERE (Sep 24, 2007)

FatDogX said:


> It may but I doubt it, it may also might be a wake up call the those shops that are making a killing. There are tons of consumer goods that price vary from store to store, that's just a way of life. Why as a consumer / buyer should we be forced to pay a higher price just because where we live and the stores around us. If someone can find a lower priced item and then give their local shop a chance to match it, what's wrong with that? Most people shop around before they make a big purchase, this is a big purchase and is no different.


...this postage shows your ignorance about the subject you have attempted to speak of...let me see if I can help you to undeerstand how this works, then you will have gained the knowledge you were not in possession of during the above reply...

...HOYT Authorized Dealers are bound by *CONTRACT* to do what they do for Hoyt...as are other Authorized Dealers for other bow companies...

...however, Hoyt bows aren't "ton's of consumer goods"...they are a PROPRIETARY ITEM and are PRICE PROTECTED BY LAW if HOYT so chooses...

... FYI...HOYT chooses to protect their product as many other proprietary product manufacturer's do...and THAT is "just a way of life" for those who have intellectual or proprietary type products they wish to protect from the dollar stores type merchants...

...ever wondeere why the local Hundyai(sp) Dealer doesn't have brand new factory delivered Cadillac's for sale in his lot for $10,000 less than the Cadillac Dealer??...and vice versa...

...same goes for the TOP SHELF bow companies...their PROducts are sold and serviced better for the customer when higher standards are maintained...

...maintaining higher standards can many times cost the Authorized Dealer/Merchant more money...many manufacturer's undeerestand this concept of overall market viability required for these specialized products and are willing(and courts have upheld their legal ability) to back that concept up with a verifiable CONTRACT that permits this environment to exist and flourish...

...by insuring these bows (or other products) are sold and serviced by these kind of "higher end" stores, HOYT can guarantee the CONSUMER a much better overall VALUE for their hard earned dollars...

...there are many manufacturer's that follow this policy...not only in the Archery Business, but a great many other businesses as well...just that they have not been the focus of this discussion...

...this kind of process will only become more and more evident in the marketplace for those manufacturers who wish to protect what they have from being made a product that the dollar store sells on a daily basis...

...violate the contract...lose the franchise...simple really...

...you will find less Hoyt Authorized Dealers rather than more after this yeere...

...but you can be sure...the ones left will provide a higher level of customer service and will provide a better value for the dollars the consumer spends with them...

...and this, will make it well worth driving a few extra miles to purchase a brand new HOYT Bow :darkbeer:

...hope this helps you to undeerestand it all :shade:


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## Crackers (Mar 9, 2004)

In laymen terms it's called MAP and the dealers are not allowed to advertise below MAP.....they are not even allowed to tell you over the phone a price below MAP.

So if a person here mentions a dealer by name selling below MAP Hoyt can take what ever action they want against that dealer.


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## FatDogX (Dec 18, 2008)

Guys, I did not mean to rock the boat and stir the **** on this one. I am completely aware of “minimum advertised price” that some companies have a policy on. MAP pricing does have several common requirements and limitations, but the individual store can set its own price as long as they do not advertise. 

a) The Minimum Advertised Price is determined by the manufacturer or US distributor. 

b) Serious consequences result to the dealer for non-compliance. 

c) Dealers can not suggest that prices lower than M.A.P. are available in an actual sales transaction where M.A.P. prices are shown. 

d) Dealers are, by law, able to establish any actual retail selling price they choose, as long as prices lower than M.A.P. are not advertised in any media including the internet. 

e) As long as price discussions between buyers and the dealer are private, M.A.P. policies do not apply.

Like a said before guys, I did not mean any harm or want to piss anyone off, just don’t want to see guys get ripped off.


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## jones6125 (Feb 1, 2009)

*alphamax 32*

Pittfall, how do I contact to get that Hoyt AM 32, with 29' draw weight for $699? I'm ready to buy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## jones6125 (Feb 1, 2009)

*Alphamax 32*

Can anyone help with that Hoyt???


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## jones6125 (Feb 1, 2009)

Who do I contact to get that Hoyt AM 32, 29' draw weight ASAP? I am ready to buy!!!!!!!!


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## LPPLAYER59 (Jan 12, 2009)

I paid $759 bare bow plus tax.


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## Carpshooter (Dec 27, 2008)

*No new Hoyt for me*

This thread has gotten really good :thumbs_up:set1_,on disagreeing on things.:set1_tango2::set1_punch:


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## anglerinsider (Jan 1, 2009)

$799 a and $849 is what I've seen in MN.


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## Tank29 (Jan 15, 2009)

$799 Alphamax 32
$849 Alphamax 32 Bone Collector Series
$849 Alphamax 35


I just ordered the Alphamax 32 Bone Collector...Should be here in 3-5 weeks...I can't wait!


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## ohioshooter68 (Jan 10, 2009)

Some shops are willing to take a lower margin to sell more of the bows. Instead of sticking it at msrp which is too high.


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## Masterkiller (Dec 23, 2008)

$950 for my am32 here in Canada, no big deal for a quality product built like a tank.

For those of you complaining about the cost of elite bows why not save your money and go buy a field ready Red-Head from Bass Pro for 6-700 dollars? Nobodys wrenching the money out've your wallet, buy you!


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## sawtoothscream (Apr 19, 2008)

i think $850 at mine. in endicott ny


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## Crackers (Mar 9, 2004)

> d) Dealers are, by law, able to establish any actual retail selling price they choose, as long as prices lower than M.A.P. are not advertised in any media including the internet.


In 2007 this law was over turned by the Supreme Court of the United States and it does allow the manufactures to hold dealers to minimum pricing and to protect the products they make. Holding to minimums also help tho keep good resale values.


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## andy stowe (Nov 9, 2007)

in fort worth:

reezen $799.

am32 $849.


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## donedealtim (Dec 17, 2008)

*$899!*

$899 here in michigan. Michigan has the highest unemployment rate in the country and the county I live in has the highest rate in the state! Dont think they will be selling many this year. I have bought my last 3 bows from here and take it to that shop for service. I know the guy who works there and I told him I cant spend an extra $300 for a bow that I can get on here. He understands but he doesnt own the shop.


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## so1ocam (Aug 24, 2007)

FallFever said:


> AM32 = $739.00
> AM35 = $759.00
> 
> ff


What shop in WI has those prices?


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## TeamEaston (Feb 9, 2007)

*Bow shop*

I work at a archery shop and there is a sug. retail price on all bow


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## WhiteTail74 (Jul 3, 2004)

799 here in prattville,AL.


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## plumbcrazyjr (Nov 28, 2008)

one shop is am32 799.00 camo +100 target
75 miles south am32 749.00 camo +75 target
but service is better at higher one and has alot more on the shelf to choose from


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## Stick*Flipper (Feb 20, 2009)

*AM 35 prices*

$950 for the AM 35 here and the factory is 10 miles away. Somebody help me


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## dods2403 (Aug 29, 2006)

Here in MI, I recieved a price of $849 in Royal oak, so I took a drive up to Brown City and purchased it for $799. Worth the little drive.


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## HC Archery (Dec 16, 2004)

*Originally Posted by FallFever 
AM32 = $739.00
AM35 = $759.00 - >>> ff* 
-----------------------

_Just asked........_
*"What shop in WI has those prices?"*
---------------------------------------------

*Hoyt has implemented MAP (Mininum Advertised Pricing) for the AlphaMax 32 & 35.

Those prices listed by Fall Fever is of course well below Hoyt's MAP price.

That dealer is so-to-speak in violation of the rules.
Not good.

Needless to say as a consumer you want it at the best price. Of course. However with the AM's...... they should be at $849 and $899.

Now..... if you are prior customer of that shop and get a better deal because of your loyalty, etc..... that is understandable of course.

However...... you should Not be telling anybody about it really.

The profit margin at $739 is quite ridiculous. I will Not of course disclose that amount.... but trust me..... it is not sufficiant.

By the way..... at the MAP pricing...... a dealer is NOT getting rich, Ya know?*


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## Nitro1970 (Jan 26, 2009)

If it has anything to do with archery or photography, everything is way over priced.


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## HC Archery (Dec 16, 2004)

Nitro1970 said:


> If it has anything to do with archery or photography, everything is way over priced.


*Amen.

I was just thinking.... Not really that long ago we were retailing high-end/flagship bows for just a touch more than our actual dealer cost now!!!

Out of curiousity guys....... What do you guess is the dealer cost of say a Hoyt AlphaMax???

What profit margin would you guess is the MAP retail?*


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## MOBOW#1 (Jun 14, 2005)

jones6125 said:


> Pittfall, how do I contact to get that Hoyt AM 32, with 29' draw weight for $699? I'm ready to buy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


 I do not want to go broke that BAD. Nor would I like to see the Shop with there phone# listed on here selling them for that. Like Crackers said no prices over the phone either.


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## parkerbows (Oct 27, 2004)

HC Archery said:


> *Amen.
> 
> I was just thinking.... Not really that long ago we were retailing high-end/flagship bows for just a touch more than our actual dealer cost now!!!
> 
> ...


My guess would be $675


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## Baggedgp (Jan 30, 2009)

From what my proshop has told me is there is msrp and then there is a Minimum price that they can go for during current model here. He was saying that if a dealer gets caught selling below minimum price to many times that the Manf can and will pull there dealer status and they will lose that lineup.


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## Stick*Flipper (Feb 20, 2009)

Would you rather sell 10 bows a day and make $100 profit each or one a week and make $250 profit? The way I see it more bows sold = more cutomers and more accessories sold because a guy getting a deal will still have money left to buy them.


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## HC Archery (Dec 16, 2004)

Stick*Flipper said:


> Would you rather sell 10 bows a day and make $100 profit each or one a week and make $250 profit? The way I see it more bows sold = more cutomers and more accessories sold because a guy getting a deal will still have money left to buy them.


Yes that is good points. However..... the profit margin must be met. 

From a true PRO shop...... the bow will be inspected and so-to-speak prepared for sale. Than the good amount of time spent setting up. Especially with fall aways.

If a bow was more like normal retail.... remove from shipping box, priced and hung on a peg. Maybe a little service in selection.... than ring up and out the door....... than $100 would be better.

Plus additional Free and discounted service after the sale certainly warrants the "MAP" price for profit margin.

*Why should furniture and jewelery stores make 300 to 500% (+) profit???*

At $100...... that is lousy 13% (+-). That is not enough even with min. time spent (service/set-up).

`


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## rossi9s (Sep 25, 2005)

*alphamax 's*

dude's dont complain
The bow is 1025 up here with duty and shipping and exchange rates..
i'll keep what i have for now.LOL


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## HC Archery (Dec 16, 2004)

Baggedgp said:


> From what my proshop has told me is there is msrp and then there is a Minimum price that they can go for during current model here. He was saying that if a dealer gets caught selling below minimum price to many times that the Manf can and will pull there dealer status and they will lose that lineup.


*That is certainly true in many aspects of MAP pricing.

MAP price I feel is critical for Pro Shops. I mean..... Full-time professional shops. Not part-time, etc.

And again..... NO shop is getting rich off MAP pricing.

It just makes sense all archery retailers selling bows at the same price or higher if they choose. 

Like our shop...... if you become a loyal type customer to a shop.... you will get some added "incentives" in the deal. Plus.... the continuing professional service down the road.

True value in a bow purchase is NOT just the price tag. Not like buying an engagement ring or a couch. *


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## 2wyoming (Sep 5, 2007)

$739.99 at my Local Shop


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## shootingzeros (Jul 19, 2008)

Got mine for $819 in Omaha.


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## Karbon (Jul 5, 2006)

AM32 WAS $769 at a local dealer here in WI.


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## atetterton (Dec 14, 2006)

I purchased a Hoyt AlphaMax 32 Bone Collector at my local shop, $899.00 plus tax.


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## Karbon (Jul 5, 2006)

Bone Collectors were just $30 more at one shop and $100 more at another.


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## JeffB (Sep 10, 2002)

Bows always run MAP/MSRP price in this area due to this being one of the most expensive parts of the country to live in. EVERYTHING is higher here-fuel, groceries, rents, etc. No way a shop can survive selling at some of the lowball prices I've seen in this thread.

$899 is the going rate for the 35, not sure if the 32 is cheaper- Bone Collectors are an extra $75 If I am remembering correctly what my dealer told me-same price as a "custom shop" fee for a Hoyt bow (i.e. for example- get Z3 cams on a AM32).


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## SilverFlash (Feb 24, 2009)

$699 FL
$749 NJ

$699 was the deal the FL Shop was running if you bought the Sight & Rest from him also.


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## MOPARLVR4406 (Apr 5, 2006)

Actual selling prices will vary by region too
No one in their right mind in Indiana would give 899 for one


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## SPIKER_67 (Nov 7, 2007)

mjcop518 said:


> I called the original shop that caused this thread today. Unknowing who they were talking too they have now quoted me $849 which is $30 less than two weeks ago. I kinda of spilled the beans of the problem with the differences in prices at which time they told me just to come in and they would work with me on the price. I think that is ******ed, if they were worried about me buying else where then they should of thought of that before they jacked their prices up.



Make sure they don't have plastic tarps on the floor when you walk in.:wink:


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## doewhacker (Mar 30, 2009)

Just ordered one here in VA. for $889, that was for the bone collector edition Alpha Max 32.


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## stringnoise (Jun 17, 2007)

There selling them here for $849 here. We have 3 shops in the area and they are all going for that amount. Another shop about 30 miles from here is selling them for $900.


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## KC_Kodiak (Mar 1, 2009)

I paid $749.00 before tax.


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## dbackinstructor (Jul 27, 2006)

$825 and $849 here


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## 3rdplace (Jan 3, 2004)

mjcop518 said:


> I think my local shop (only Hoyt Dealer in area): is trying to rip everybody off, checked on the Alphamax prices and got $879.00 for the 32. What should be the going rate?



If you called them on the phone all dealers have to quote a Minimum Advertised Price. If you go in the price is likely to be a lot lower.


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## passinthrough12 (Mar 11, 2009)

32 769 in my area


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## BLUE72CAMARO (Feb 12, 2009)

i gave $849 for my 32: blackout, could have gotten a camo that was instock for $799. While the bow wasnt the cheapest around I got great prices on all the other accesories to go with it.


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## DDDArchery (Mar 23, 2009)

Are top of the line bows expensive? Yes they arebecause they are top of the line ... if you dont want to pay top of the line prices dont buy top of the line equiptment ... there are other very reasonably priced bows and equiptment out there but then dont expect top of the line proformance either. I have been in this game for 28 years and I have been buying top of the line bows for atleast 22 of those. Are top of the line bows expensive compare and tell me. I remember clearly paying $600 for a PSE Laser Flite Elite in Metallic Blue around 1987. So if bow prices have gone up $200 or 33% in the last 22 years, they havent even kept pace with inflation and the technology has improved vastly to boot. So Again I ask are they expensive? And I answer yes they are and for the quality I will happily pay it to particpate in the sport I love at the highest level.


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## dieselpwr (Mar 12, 2009)

Here in Colorado at my local shop everone is getting the ugly end of the stick. They are selling them for I sh** you not 924.99.


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## hollidays (Jan 6, 2009)

849 in montana and worth every penny


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## Bill 2311 (Jun 24, 2005)

So, will one of the more reasonable priced dealers sell you one and ship it to you?
I don't need set-up or tune. PM with any deal offers for an AM 35...


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## PondCreekArcher (Nov 17, 2008)

I paid $750 here in the Bluegrass state


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## BoneCollector09 (Feb 22, 2009)

$849 for the 32 and $899 for the 35 at both shops here in SLC.


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## DFArcher (Mar 15, 2006)

Around $749 for the 32 and $769 for the 35 around here.


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## creasey (Feb 18, 2009)

$699.00 / $729.00 in Florida.


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## brian1966 (Mar 18, 2005)

$700.00 St. Germain Wisconsin


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## kc hay seed (Jul 12, 2007)

one thing about it,the best way to solve it is just shoot what you had last year,thease bows could have not improved that much in 1-year.just dont buy it!!!!! i will just keep my 2008 bow and have just as much fun wheather it is cool or not.


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## RecordKeeper (May 9, 2003)

xtremetj said:


> That's a bunch of crap if you ask me! The manufactures won't let you order/buy from someone else when your dealer is sticking it to you! It just really sucks. I realize everyone is in business to make a living and I do respect that but when there is such a huge price difference it just really pisses me off! I'll bet $100 bucks it the same shop I go to. He sells everything in the shop for retail, accessories and all. Then they wonder when someone shows up with rest from somewhere else why they didn't buy it from them. Then when you buy everything from him including a couple bows a year they won't even give or offer you some sort of discount. I'll get off my soap box now.


A RETAIL shop selling for RETAIL?

Unthinkable!


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## deer dude (Feb 10, 2005)

2 shops around my area are selling them for 879.00 another one is selling them for 799.00 .


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## bossofduhwoods (Jan 29, 2006)

*$$ here in mass.*

699.00$ tops don`t forget its about a 100% mark up 800.00$ for U is 400$ for HIMMMM f### him. we thats WE,;. `R` all tight for $$$, ya know what I mean?


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## RecordKeeper (May 9, 2003)

bossofduhwoods said:


> 699.00$ tops don`t forget its about a 100% mark up 800.00$ for U is 400$ for HIMMMM f### him. we thats WE,;. `R` all tight for $$$, ya know what I mean?


A 100% markup on a bow? I wish!

Here's a little industry secret for you...

A shop owner's goal is to make $100 per bow sold. And they're lucky to get it.

I promise you there is no 100% mark on any bow.


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## joffutt1 (Mar 23, 2008)

Masterkiller said:


> $950 for my am32 here in Canada, no big deal for a quality product built like a tank.
> 
> For those of you complaining about the cost of elite bows why not save your money and go buy a field ready Red-Head from Bass Pro for 6-700 dollars? Nobodys wrenching the money out've your wallet, buy you!


I love my AM 32 and it is a great bow but there is no way in hell that i would pay $950 for any hoyt mathews bowtech or whatever. I would just stick to the classifieds.


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## BrokenLimbs (Nov 25, 2008)

*Price / Quality / Service - Pick Two!*

First let me say that I like a good deal just like the next guy. And I didn't buy the AM, bought the Admiral instead BUT...

I paid retail, on the bow itself because of the "kick-ass" service I receive. (The fact that the Admiral retails for about $100 less is irrelevant in this reply.) I always get a discount on the accessories, and am not charged if I show up with problems or need service after the fact. Believe me when I say, the guy at the bow shop takes care of me. And with a short season, this (quality and service) is important to me. Last year I had a new set of winners choice strings put on my old bow, and I was only charged for the strings.

HERE IS WHAT IS IMPORTANT:

IF you have a dealer who caters to you, supports the sport, helps you out without "nickel and dime-ing" you after the fact and consider this:

Suggested retail exists for a reason. It provides dealers with the profit to provide quality service, selection and cover overhead. People are in business to make money just like you go to work to put food on the table. (No "I hunt for food" responses please......)

As a business owner (nothing to do with hunting) for over 20 years in both retail and service industries, one thing is apparent in every industry:

You can seldom find Price, Quality & Service. Something has to give somewhere. Furthermore, how would you feel about exclusively relying on Wal-Mart for all your bowhunting needs? (What if all bows were made in China - Would you hunt? I wouldn't!) (Or you can always buy it cheap / direct from someone on the internet, and fend for yourself.)

My dealer does what it takes to make things right, and I don't mind paying a bit extra for the added convenience. Plus, retailers need to make on average at least a 30% profit margin (or more) to keep their doors open.

The only people screwing anyone are in any position to POSSIBLY be screwing anyone on price are the manufacturers / distributors who wholesale the products we buy from our chosen retailers.

So before anyone "*****es" about retail / or not getting a "wholesale deal" think about what retail means, and who is actually are responsible for things costing so much at the register.....

The dealers / small business retailers are usually the good guys who get all the blame. If you run your own business, you know what I'm talking about here.

-Just my thoughts!


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## Mr. Burns (Apr 21, 2008)

Olsenck said:


> A 100% markup on a bow? I wish!
> 
> Here's a little industry secret for you...
> 
> ...


we sell the AM32 for the "MAP" of $849.99, and guess what, thats a $150 prifit for us!! $700 is cost on that bow. that, i can prove. i have the dealer book in my lap as we speak.


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## Mr. Burns (Apr 21, 2008)

brian1966 said:


> $700.00 St. Germain Wisconsin


thats where I am heading. (yes, we sell them here, but i can only get one for $799) and i have family in woodruff and minocqua. i am there all the time.


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## -bowfreak- (Oct 18, 2006)

I am not doubting that a minimum price might be a good thing to protect dealers but, keep in mind, no one is holding a gun to your head forcing you to run an archery pro shop. IMHO, the amount that a dealer has to pay for a bow is to high to start with. Then you throw on his 20-30 percent and you have a $800-$900 bow. You can buy 2 or 3 good Chevettes for that price.

I don't know if it works or not but, these guys that are selling these bows at a minimal profit are PLANNING on making their profit somewhere else.....maybe it is accessories, maybe it is through a top notch bow tech, maybe it is from an indoor range....maybe it is the bar???:darkbeer:

At least for the time being, we are still a capitalistic society and the market will bear the price of any item that exists.


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## RecordKeeper (May 9, 2003)

-bowfreak- said:


> I am not doubting that a minimum price might be a good thing to protect dealers but, keep in mind, no one is holding a gun to your head forcing you to run an archery pro shop. IMHO, the amount that a dealer has to pay for a bow is to high to start with. Then you throw on his 20-30 percent and you have a $800-$900 bow. *You can buy 2 or 3 good Chevettes for that price.
> *
> I don't know if it works or not but, these guys that are selling these bows at a minimal profit are PLANNING on making their profit somewhere else.....maybe it is accessories, maybe it is through a top notch bow tech, maybe it is from an indoor range....maybe it is the bar???:darkbeer:
> 
> At least for the time being, we are still a capitalistic society and the market will bear the price of any item that exists.




bowfreak....

That has to be one of the funniest things I have EVER read on this site!

Too bad the RK's Post of the Day Award has been retired...you'd have been a sho-in!

Awesome! :thumb:


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## Mr. Burns (Apr 21, 2008)

bowfreak has a point. the profit margin is in the accessories. big time. and what lies down the road.. new strings for the customer, arrows.. stuff like that. 

you know what really keeps our head above the quick sand, is the people that keep bows for a long time and keep shooting these old dinosaur bows. they come in, and put a new string and cable on them, see accessories and upgrade all that. how do you sell it to them? you say the bow will take care of them for awhile, buy accessories now, and you can carry them over to a new bow when you buy one in a year or two. offer them $25 off of a bow and write it in a business card, and guess what, customer usually comes back when they buy a new bow. no charge for setting up all the accessories on the old bow because the accessories were bought from us. then no charge to transfer them to the new bow a year or so later because the new bow was bought from us. this way, we dont have to offer the 10% off on the accessories as we do if they buy a new bow and re-accessorize it all at the same time. and if they do, then we still make a profit on the accessories even at a discount, made profit on selling the new bow, and bigger profit from the accessories they put on the old bow. its a huge confusing circle. 

another area is service. we didnt charge a dime to anyone that came in with a general that needed new limbs, weather it was bought from us or not. atleast we were not out the shipping cost. customer service sells itself.


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## MightyElkHntr (Dec 13, 2006)

Don Beaver said:


> In all seriousness, I wish manufacturers would just set prices so that all dealers were on a level playing field and the bickering would stop.
> ... Oh wait, they do, it's just that dealers aren't listening to them.
> It must be nice as a shop owner/manager to be able to say "Screw 'em, we'll have the lowest prices around and when they stop selling us bows, we'll just move on to another bow company."
> You folks who buy from these low priced shops may, at some point, learn the hard way... When a limb breaks and you go back for warranty work only to find out that your shop is no longer allowed to sell your brand because they got caught giving them away. I truly hope it doesn't happen to any of you, but bear in mind that the possibility truly exists.


See, I was selling for MAP, and the guys down the road (two different shops) 25 miles in each direction were selling them at $10 over cost with accessories at 10% over cost too because they didn't want to sit on them all year, and they don't make their living off archery so they were basically liquidating every year as soon as product arrived... that was why I wouldn't continue with Hoyt and Mathews, it wasn't profitable to stock them and have them sit on the shelves - 
I made more off the $20 set-up and continued servicing of the bows that had been sold by the other two other shops than I made off my entire combined Hoyt and Mathews sales for the year.


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## JCHoytshooter (Sep 8, 2005)

749 at my shop I paid 800 for the Bone Collector (32). The other shops in the are started at 800.


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## RecordKeeper (May 9, 2003)

Mr. Burns said:


> we sell the AM32 for the "MAP" of $849.99, and guess what, thats a $150 prifit for us!! $700 is cost on that bow. that, i can prove. i have the dealer book in my lap as we speak.


Correct.

So what happens to those dealers that are selling it for $699? They are upside down. Plain and simple. There is no dealer holdback like if that bow had been manufactured by Chrysler or Chevrolet.

And you may make $150 profit now. But you know as well as I do...in October Hoyt will make some changes to that bow. It may only be the camo pattern. It may be the cam. They may make the limbs 1/2" longer. They may increase the brace height by 1/4". It doesn't matter. What does matter is that every bow on your shelf will be obsolete, and you will be very fortunate to sell them at a $100 loss.

Like I said...a dealer's goal is to make $100 per bow...


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## BrokenLimbs (Nov 25, 2008)

Minimum price practices could be considered collusion.

Legally, (as far as I remember) instilling and enforcing "rock-bottom" pricing is only legal if: it protects an industry from an entity (business) who is selling a new item BELOW COST and that item is being sold at that price specifically to harm a competitor. (Wording may be a bit different, but I think that's the "jist" of it.)

Otherwise, I believe we're all talking about "price fixing" which is in essence collusion - which or course is illegal.

(Not a lawyer, but I believe I'm correct here.)


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## BrokenLimbs (Nov 25, 2008)

$100 profit on $799 is a mere 12% profit margin.

FACT: Not enough to cover overhead, and be worthwhile to keep doors open.

So if you buy a new 2009 bow early in the spring of 2009 for instance, lets hope they make $200 to offset all the leftovers they have to give away. Otherwise you'll eventually find them "closed permanently."

Think about this: Who is financing all the inventory? I know the manufacturers don't put it there on consignment. There's a bunch of $$ tied up in the inventory. And if it's financed, a dealer is probably paying at least 12% interest on all that pretty stuff sitting on their shelves.


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## McStamper (Feb 25, 2009)

I have read a few pages of this thread and thought I would add my 2 cents. 

I am a 54 year old female just getting into archery, I have been shooting for 4 months now and felt it was time to move up to a better bow. I drove down to Louisville to hook up with Karen from Shoot Like a Girl so I could try out lots of bows and I fell in love with the AlphaMax. 

I looked around and checked out different stores for price and customer service, both were important to me. In the end I decided to pay more for my bow because of the great customer service I received at one of the local shops. Before ordering my bow the shop owner worked with me for almost an hour, fixed up my old bow, set up a bow for me to shoot and worked with me because I was thinking about going from a right hand bow to a left and I had never used a release before. My bow came in the other day and the owner again worked with me for over an hour, getting everything set up right for me and worked with me on the release and my form. He told me to work on building my strength up, just practice shooting at a wall for now, and in a couple weeks to come back and he will check my form again, etc. I asked him about purchasing a sight and new arrows, I would have bought them before I walked out the door, but he said he would let me know when I was ready for those items. He said for now just work at getting stronger and not to worry about a sight and new arrows. When I'm ready he will have me start shooting at targets and then we will discuss the other purchases. 

I had to wait a bit because the store was busy with customers both times, but the attention I received was priceless. I feel the customer service I received is well worth the extra money I paid for my bow. I know most of you have a great deal of archery knowledge and may not need any help, but I sure do! I would not get this kind of help if I purchased a bow at a big box store or on the internet. What would a newbie like me do if there was no local shops to go to for help? I know in my case I probably would have given up the idea of getting into archery altogether. 

Pricing of a product is very important, and I understand many of you are upset because you feel an item is overpriced. But I know the man I bought my bow from is earning every penny of it through his time and effort with me and I will continue to buy from him even if his prices are higher on some items, because I know when I need help he will be there for me if I, and others continue to support him.


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## Billincamo (Dec 8, 2002)

tileman said:


> Some shops probably pay less than others for whatever reason?????


This is true most bow manufacturers have different levels of pricing depending on how many bows a dealer sells each year. One of the other major factors is the guy selling out of his house (barn, basement, shed garage) has no overhead and can sell a few bucks over cost. Pro shops typically don't have that luxury.


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## Billincamo (Dec 8, 2002)

archerm3 said:


> Something tells me that you will be much happier when there isn't a local dealer around to see the new products. Who would open up a store just to make peanuts and listen to the local population ***** and moan about prices while driving up in their brand new F150s and showing pictures of their latest multithousand dollar guided game hunt.
> 
> Is this conjecture or experience? I'll bet $100 that it's conjecture.
> 
> ...


I couldn't agree more.


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## Billincamo (Dec 8, 2002)

bossofduhwoods said:


> 699.00$ tops don`t forget its about a 100% mark up 800.00$ for U is 400$ for HIMMMM f### him. we thats WE,;. `R` all tight for $$$, ya know what I mean?


You don't have a clue what your talking about, do you!


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## Billincamo (Dec 8, 2002)

McStamper said:


> I have read a few pages of this thread and thought I would add my 2 cents.
> 
> I am a 54 year old female just getting into archery, I have been shooting for 4 months now and felt it was time to move up to a better bow. I drove down to Louisville to hook up with Karen from Shoot Like a Girl so I could try out lots of bows and I fell in love with the AlphaMax.
> 
> ...


Well stated, sounds like you found a great shop. If you see Karen tell her Bill from Colorado said "Hello".


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## McStamper (Feb 25, 2009)

Billincamo said:


> Well stated, sounds like you found a great shop. If you see Karen tell her Bill from Colorado said "Hello".


I do feel very lucky to have found this shop, not that the others in the area aren't good too. But this owner was outstanding, I could not believe the patience he had with me. I know if I had been in his shoes I would have smacked me in the head a few times and said there is no hope for you, maybe you should try another sport. But with his guidence I hope I might actually become a pretty good archer. 

I'd love to see Karen again sometime. Spending time with her, was a wonderful experence, she is so sweet and her company provides a great service for women interested in archery.


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## -bowfreak- (Oct 18, 2006)

McStamper said:


> I have read a few pages of this thread and thought I would add my 2 cents.
> 
> I am a 54 year old female just getting into archery, I have been shooting for 4 months now and felt it was time to move up to a better bow. I drove down to Louisville to hook up with Karen from Shoot Like a Girl so I could try out lots of bows and I fell in love with the AlphaMax.
> 
> ...


This is a perfect example of why someone would pay top dollar for a bow. I agree with you 100%. If the shop is a wealth of knowledge and provides setup, tuning, form tips and whatever else, then I would expect to pay top dollar. 

The problem with this scenario is that these types of shops are few and far between. My local dealers are a blend of people who know how to setup bows but won't.....to people that will try but have no idea what they are doing. One dealer who sells a lot of bows, at top dollar I might add, has not been able to keep a bow tech. Therefore he always has a young man that is "learning." Another shop has quite a bit more knowledge when it comes to shooting 3D and spots but, they don't have a clue how to tune a bow for broadheads and don't have a clue nor wouldn't take the time to help someone do it for themselves. The guys in this shop told me that fixed blade heads will not group with field points and just to settle for mechanicals. I have to laugh inside when I hear this.

Personally, what I want in a dealer is a guy/gal who will sell me the bow at the cheapest price and still cover the warranty. I don't even want him to touch it....just take hand it to me and take my money or parts to be warrantied. Due to the fact of never having a reputable person in the area to work on bows, I learned over time how to do everything myself. I have all the equipment and plenty of expertise in bow wrenching (more than enough to match my shooting level). Do I know as much as some of the best? Obviously not but I do know a lot more than the jabronis who are in the business where I live.

Bottom line is to make money in any business, you have to be doing something your competitors are *not* and that something needs to be what the customers are looking for. If you aren't, you are no different than the other guy. It is up to guys who are in the business to figure that out...what works in your area....what do my customers want???? I am just a 40 hr/week sheep so I have no idea of what it actually takes to make it work but, I do know what it takes to make it not work and that is high price and zero service. That is a guarantee for failure in the archery or any other business.


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## AlphaMax Freak (Feb 18, 2009)

$799 here in Michigan!


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## Uzabow (Jan 19, 2005)

Bow Freak you should work for your local archery shop with all that wonderful knowledge. I hope you didn't hurt your arm patting your self on the back.


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## hoyt junkie (Apr 9, 2009)

just ordered AM 32 camo- 725
Bone collector-775


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## NH Bowhunter (Apr 29, 2009)

$720 is the lowest found in NH Highest was 919


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## MightyElkHntr (Dec 13, 2006)

You think thats bad, you oughta come to my local shop and see what they're doing now that I quit carrying Hoyt... marked at $950 for the AM32 and $999 for the 35, then they put them "On sale" for what the regular MSRP is... $850 and $899ukey::mg:


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## Piscat84 (Mar 16, 2009)

I just got my alpha max 32 (bone collector edition) for around $750 in MO. Amazing bow, I plan on having it for a long time. Matthews new motto should be "*We'll catch up if we can.*"


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## Bird Levron (Mar 14, 2009)

749 here


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## tanneryrat (Feb 18, 2009)

shooter6687 said:


> I hear ya...mathews bows made here in Wisconsin and we pay full sugested retail....go figure. As far as the hoyts full price here also..


Makes no sense. I found the reezen anywhere from 30 over list to 100 under list. All within a 2 hr drive from me.


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## BEETLE GUY (Apr 14, 2007)

849


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## bama1dc (Apr 20, 2009)

*Would'nt buy that bow!!!!!!!!!!!!!*

Here in Al they are going for $700 it doesnt shock me that there is some price fluctuation from dealer to dealer but $800-850 has got to be a scam! Beter take a road trip or buy one online. What location was this?


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## bama1dc (Apr 20, 2009)

*R these guys hoyt dealers!!!*

Maybe they came across a couple of bows at public price only to resell for a profit! One thing is for sure we need to stand uo to shops like this and buy somewhere else this is the last thing we need we already pay a ton for a good bow.


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## bama1dc (Apr 20, 2009)

*I think i would call hoyt to find out.*

????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????


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## bama1dc (Apr 20, 2009)

-bowfreak- said:


> This is a perfect example of why someone would pay top dollar for a bow. I agree with you 100%. If the shop is a wealth of knowledge and provides setup, tuning, form tips and whatever else, then I would expect to pay top dollar.
> 
> The problem with this scenario is that these types of shops are few and far between. My local dealers are a blend of people who know how to setup bows but won't.....to people that will try but have no idea what they are doing. One dealer who sells a lot of bows, at top dollar I might add, has not been able to keep a bow tech. Therefore he always has a young man that is "learning." Another shop has quite a bit more knowledge when it comes to shooting 3D and spots but, they don't have a clue how to tune a bow for broadheads and don't have a clue nor wouldn't take the time to help someone do it for themselves. The guys in this shop told me that fixed blade heads will not group with field points and just to settle for mechanicals. I have to laugh inside when I hear this.
> 
> ...


There is no amount of knowledge worth that kind of pricing!!! $700 here!


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## bama1dc (Apr 20, 2009)

Billincamo said:


> This is true most bow manufacturers have different levels of pricing depending on how many bows a dealer sells each year. One of the other major factors is the guy selling out of his house (barn, basement, shed garage) has no overhead and can sell a few bucks over cost. Pro shops typically don't have that luxury.


The two shops here in Al that i shop at are at $700 and very nice shops with best in customer service and setup knowledge. So how many bows you sell/ buy probably has more to do with it! Its still hard to see$150-200 dollar gap though. I think i might start buying new bows and sellimg them on here i could do quite well even with shipping charges!


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## timmymac24 (Sep 4, 2008)

*problem solved*

bought a sweet shooting 2008 Katera on here for $400! I am going to give it some time and let the next new Hoyt round of bows come and then pick up the Alphamax. Just my tight a^$ way of going about it...............


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## bjibber (Feb 23, 2009)

The alphamax is a top of the line bow. You can't really complain about having to pay a premium price for a premium product. You wouldn't go into the Mercedez Benz dealer and whine about how much they cost would you? If you have to have the latest and greatest then you have to pay for it. I don't complain about my swarovski binos and spotting scope being so expensive because i know they are amazing products and I am willing to pay for that level of quality. I know i can buy some nikons or bushnells for 1/10th the price but i have decided that is one piece of equipment that is important enough to justify the cost.

I don't think we should feel entitled to have the top of the line bow sold at cheap prices. Hoyt offers a great bow that is about half the price of the AM(powerhawk). If you dont want to pay for the best bow out there then pay a lot less and be satisfied with a good bow in stead of a great bow. Hoyt is not obligated to put a lot of money into technology and then give it to you.

This is the beauty of Capitalism. If a company puts out a good product and stands by that product then they will be able to charge more than the next company out there. If the consumer deems that product to be overpriced compared to the value of the product then they will not sell their products and will be forced to lower prices or go out of business. 

The high prices are not the fault of the archery shops. They have to sell enough product to stay in business. For most shops it is a "labor of love" style of business. There are not many archery shop owners out there making a killing. If some shops sell an Alpha Max at cost then they will nickle and dime you and make their money on accessories. It is a "black Friday" type of philosopy that they are banking on once they have you in their store they will get you to buy other items. 

I prefer a more honest style of business: My local archery shop sells most things at MSRP, but they give incredible service. It's almost like they are saying "we are not the cheapest but we will do a great job and make sure that you are satisfied." They provide a place and a chance for me to shoot each bow before i decide to buy it (helped me decide between the Katera and AM). They also frequently provide service and small items free like a bolt that vibrates loose or serving that comes loose. It is because of this attitude and service they are sucessful and have MANY return customers. I live in an area that within 20 miles of my house I have a cabelas, a sportsman's wharehouse and 3 great archery shops. I choose to pay more for most my items at my local archery shop because of the great service that I get there. If I need an item that I can set up myself or that I dont need that great customer service on then I will buy it at one of the big boys (cabelas or sportsmans).

I am not defending all small archery shops. I think places have to earn their customers. If I did not need help or service on my new bow then I would probably buy from a lowballer shop too. Why should I pay the higher price when they are not providing me with any knowledge or service that i need. If I buy a bow at dealer cost from a lowballer shop then Hoyt (the company that worked hard to design and make the bow) made their money and the dealer made the mistake of selling a bow at cost and assuming I would pay for other overpriced accessories. If your local shop is not providing great service and knowledge then go somewhere that is. If you already know everything and can do it on your own then buy off the internet or from one of the lowballer shops. Don't pay for what you don't need.


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## kyarcher27 (May 15, 2009)

Dang, those are some high prices, my local shop has 32s for 699, 729 for 35s.
I got my bone collector 32 for 699 also. I don't think i've ever seen anything sell for full suggested retail like that.


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## bowman_77 (May 4, 2009)

Not to change the subject..but I paid 739 for my mathew reezen and I was at the shop today B.S. around and asked the guy I deal with what they realy pay for the this bow. " he said 529 " that tells you what kind of mark up there is...


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## jrmysell (Mar 13, 2008)

lost n mi said:


> am 32 -849
> am 35 - 899
> 
> michigan


Same in panhandle of texas


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## a1shooter (Mar 27, 2009)

*$2000*



MightyElkHntr said:


> If a Hoyt costs $650 to the dealer, and the dealer is required to bring in a certain quantity of Hoyts to have an account each year, say 15 bows, that is $9750 sitting on the wall. If he carries Mathews, its 25+ bows ($15,000), Bowtech is 25+ bows ($15,000), Martin is 20 bows ($12,000) etc, etc... before one new bow is sold he is into *THIS YEARS MODELS* some $36,500 for three bow lines so customers have a choice!!!
> 
> Now if that dealer has $2000 in rent/bills to pay just to stay open each month, and he sells all 10 Hoyts for suggested retail, say $850 for the AM32, I get a total of $6500 in cost of bows, and sales of $8500 which means that he paid his $2000 in operating costs *barely*.
> 
> ...


Sounds to me like the company that decides to let dealers sell from their basement and over the internet is going to be the company that sells a lot of bows. Get rid of at least some of that $2000/month operating cost. Put up a sign in the front yard, and sell them bows country style. Dosn't have to be a fancy setup, just functional. They can work on bows in their basement too. I bet a bow set up and "shop" tuned in a basement will shoot just as good as one set up down on main street. Maybe they should worry more about having dealers go to a school and being qualified than they should worry about how and where they are selling their bows. Thats just a few of my thoughts on it. But what do I know? Now go ahead and tell me why I am so wrong. I know its coming!!
Thanks


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## Hoyt Alpha32 (Apr 19, 2009)

Here in the Philly area they are going for an average of $849. I shopped around and ended up driving 60 miles from my house to get one for $739. That was the cheapest I could find it after taling to about 10 Hoyt dealers.


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## frogman412 (Apr 21, 2009)

*hoyt bow*



mjcop518 said:


> I think my local shop (only Hoyt Dealer in area): is trying to rip everybody off, checked on the Alphamax prices and got $879.00 for the 32. What should be the going rate?


you should look on bowsport.com they have some go deel I think you can get it for 700 but i could be wrong I will check for you and let you now


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## ARCHERS IMAGE (Jun 9, 2009)

Hoyt alpha max 32 in ar around hot,springs $779.99.


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## Hunter2678 (Jan 16, 2008)

hey if dealers can get thier asking price more power to em and if people wanna pay that much more power to them as well.....supply and demand people!!!


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## FiveOarcher (Sep 21, 2006)

*bowsports.com*

the above website is an overseas archery shop/dealer. I dont think those prices are US. Or, if they would even ship over here. Just FYI. thanks,


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## mobhuntr (Aug 5, 2009)

*hoyts*

ive owned a couple of hoyts wanted the alpha max saw the price and said forget that. bought a g5 quest and let me tell you this is the best bow i have ever owned, my brother bought the alpha max and he cant believe how quiet this g5 quest shoots, im also shooting better than he is. so if you dont want to spend that kind of money get something else there are other bows out there that shoot just as good if not better that hoyts and matthews as far as im concerned they are both over priced. all these hunting shows are pushing these two bows. wow if they are using them they must be great. thats crap. i would take this g5 and shoot just as good if not better than your everyday hunter shooting an alpha max or a matthews. so dont get sucked into what these hunting shows are promoting, like the alpha max bone collectors edition. how much is michael waddell making off of everyone of those bows that are sold. its all about the green. a remember when hoyts were sold at a reasonable price where everyone could afford one its turned into a rich mans sport. thanks to these hunting shows.


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## ScruffyDog (Sep 16, 2009)

I got mine for $730 at Johson's Sporting Goods in Montague Mi. Great place,great people that know what there doing.


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## optimax (Sep 18, 2009)

I paid $739 for my Katera absolutely a awsome bow.

I do not see what all the hype is about the Alpha Max The Katera shoots faster the AM So why buy A Am that shoots slower. 

What is better on the AM over the Katera?


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## benzilla (Mar 5, 2009)

notbulbous said:


> All Pro Shops are high...but they are going to be able to give you expert advice, tuning help, and set up a new bow for you too. That's how they can justify the high price, I guess.
> 
> It stinks to have to pay high prices in the age of the internet...but it would be worse to not have a shop around!


that is so true otherwise all the cabelas and gander mountain ******s would be blowing up everyones ****


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## benzilla (Mar 5, 2009)

mobhuntr said:


> ive owned a couple of hoyts wanted the alpha max saw the price and said forget that. bought a g5 quest and let me tell you this is the best bow i have ever owned, my brother bought the alpha max and he cant believe how quiet this g5 quest shoots, im also shooting better than he is. so if you dont want to spend that kind of money get something else there are other bows out there that shoot just as good if not better that hoyts and matthews as far as im concerned they are both over priced. all these hunting shows are pushing these two bows. wow if they are using them they must be great. thats crap. i would take this g5 and shoot just as good if not better than your everyday hunter shooting an alpha max or a matthews. so dont get sucked into what these hunting shows are promoting, like the alpha max bone collectors edition. how much is michael waddell making off of everyone of those bows that are sold. its all about the green. a remember when hoyts were sold at a reasonable price where everyone could afford one its turned into a rich mans sport. thanks to these hunting shows.


nobody cares about your lame ass opinion


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## benzilla (Mar 5, 2009)

optimax said:


> I paid $739 for my Katera absolutely a awsome bow. more forgiving, quieter , more comfortable to shoot, own both and am 35 takes the cake all day long.
> 
> I do not see what all the hype is about the Alpha Max The Katera shoots faster the AM So why buy A Am that shoots slower.
> 
> What is better on the AM over the Katera?


quieter, smoother, more of a joy to shoot i own a katara and a am 35 am takes the cake katara is some where in the closet now to be forgoten.
all speed does is make you miss faster.


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## sandborn812 (Jul 19, 2009)

*prices in southern Indiana*

Prices range from 699-720


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## WRDOAN (Aug 6, 2009)

$799 here in Louisville, Ky. I bought my Turbohawk bck in Aug. for $499. Went into the same shop this week and they went up to $529. Go figure!


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## N7709K (Dec 17, 2008)

whatever hoyt gave as the msrp is what I have found them going for in mn


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## Trevor02TA (Sep 8, 2009)

629 at Scheels in WI. I paid 699 3 weeks ago at same store:sad:


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## bibijawa (Oct 9, 2009)

799.00 / 850.00 in Miami


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## tarleet (Aug 11, 2009)

three dealers in northern california that ive been to 849.99....


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## Shockandawe (Jun 13, 2009)

*Right to a Profit*

I believe everyone has the right to make a fair profit - and it is up to a shop owner to determine what their pricing strategy is and its not like the owners are getting rich owning an archery shop.

I had a different situation - I had spent almost $1,500 at a local bowshop in less than 7 months, when my entire rig, range finder, binocs, knife - everything was stolen. Everything I bought up to that point was full retail, but I wasn't sweating it because I liked the service at the shop.

So I go into the local shop and tell them everything was just stolen and I need to get an entire new set up - about $2,400 worth of spending, and I ask them how much a new AM32 was going to cost - I was quoted full retail, which really pissed me off. I would have expected that a loyal customer who just had everything stolen would get a little bit of a price break on the new stuff just out of doing business the right way.

I call another local shop, tell them about everything that was stolen and I need to get it replaced - guy is really understanding and gives me $100 off on the bow and discounted every other item as well. You can imagine where my loyalty is now.


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## Tiggie_00 (Jul 18, 2009)

If your looking for a deal on a Alphamax?? Try buying the dealer AM32 Demo bows.. My dad bought one for 400 about 3 weeks ago.


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## SplashOfPee (Aug 4, 2009)

I paid 799 for mine.....bone collector to boot. I did not care about the bone collector but they did not have my draw or lbs in regular - so he gave me this one for same as others.


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## barwin06 (Feb 17, 2008)

i work for wulf outdoor sports in center texas and we sell the alphamax35 for 799.99 and the 35 for 849.99 and the bone collector for 829.99 and 855.99. msrp is 899 and the minimun advertised price is 849. but we r a lvl 3 dealer so we can get them at a lower cost. and from what i hear from the main bow tech hear is that we r in a tie for #1 sales in hoyt with vikan achery in houston tx. so i hope this helps yall out. are website is wulfoutdoorsports.com


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## hunterculp81 (Apr 10, 2009)

849.00 in mo,


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## MOBOW#1 (Jun 14, 2005)

barwin06 said:


> i work for wulf outdoor sports in center texas and we sell the alphamax35 for 799.99 and the 35 for 849.99 and the bone collector for 829.99 and 855.99. msrp is 899 and the minimun advertised price is 849. but we r a lvl 3 dealer so we can get them at a lower cost. and from what i hear from the main bow tech hear is that we r in a tie for #1 sales in hoyt with vikan achery in houston tx. so i hope this helps yall out. are website is wulfoutdoorsports.com




Accident Prone Bow Tech:mg::embara:

Just ribbing ya a little:zip:


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## The-mad-hunter (May 29, 2009)

mjcop518 said:


> I think my local shop (only Hoyt Dealer in area): is trying to rip everybody off, checked on the Alphamax prices and got $879.00 for the 32. What should be the going rate?


You hould consider that a deal.
I paid $1149+15% sales tax in Hull Quebec Canada


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## Baxy (Sep 4, 2009)

$899 most places in Montana but they are offering an end of season $100 off any bow even if they bring it in as long as it isnt a special order


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## sawtoothscream (Apr 19, 2008)

$850 at my local shop


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## billythemtn (Oct 5, 2009)

*Am32*

I'm seeing most tagged at the shops for suggested retail to make mfr happy. They are being sold for less most often. Mid seven's at most places...
I hope they get a kiss for $849!


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## jamesbowman (Jan 29, 2006)

*Hoyt Prices*

It seems there is no rymn or reason to these prices- I called two shops within 60 miles and got two prices for an AM 35- One was $749.00 and one was $849.00- All I know is the $849.00 is making over $200.00 profit of a bow at least- That is a little much. And this is why I look for used bows.


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