# thinkin out loud and asking the difficult questions



## rock monkey (Dec 28, 2002)

ok, saw a thread in gen pop and this is one of the responses:

_
You could do an Iron Buck, it's a steel cutout of a deer with a small hole in the kill zone, usually about 3 inches. You have to shoot thru the hole into a target butt or you will wreck your arrow on the steel plate.

A clay birdie swinging on a string. Have a string suspended from something above a target butt, at the end of the string tie a rubber band just big enough to hold the birdie, insert the clay and swing it side to side.

If you want to do a water one, do you have a pond? Put a floating target in the pond on a rope, either hit the target or lose your arrow in the pond._

it got me wonderin why people will be more than happy throwin money and aways away like used cleenex and have nary an I'll feeling about it but just flat out refuse to shoot past 60yds?

known distance to keep you from losing arrows. A big ol' target with lots of score-able real estate on a course that's shooter friendly.

if it's just that whole 'no challenge cuz you know the distance' excuse then why isn't the herd beating a path to the unknown fita field?

just tryin to figure out the thinking behind this stuff and get our game more well known and enjoyed.


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## psargeant (Aug 1, 2004)

Be sure to share what you figure out...

I've been working on that one since 3-d began and haven't come up with a satisfying answer yet...

I really do think for whatever reason people get a pre-conceived notion about our game...once they've got it, good luck getting rid of it...

It takes work to be a *good* field shooter...maybe that is it...


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## JawsDad (Dec 28, 2005)

I think one reason those other games exist is just simply the gambling factor. They are usually novelty shoots for cash, merchandise or hunts. I think people are willing to gamble a $5-$15 arrow on those things.



Like it or not, and I don't, I think the $$ payback factor of the 3D world in combination with fewer arrows and shorter distances gives it the leg up.

We had an event here locally this past weekend that consisted of 3D, Field and a 900 round. You could shoot any of it you wanted.

Field Rounds: 37
900 Rounds: 48
3D Rounds Shot: 107

This shoot did not involve $$ payback, but 3D outdrew field almost 3:1. Try as you might to talk some of them into shooting field, most just did not want to try it.


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## pragmatic_lee (Jan 19, 2008)

JawsDad said:


> We had an event here locally this past weekend that consisted of 3D, Field and a 900 round. You could shoot any of it you wanted.
> 
> Field Rounds: 37
> 900 Rounds: 48
> 3D Rounds Shot: 107


Wonder which event caused the most controversy - not that I've been following you around JD, but I saw those results and some of the discussion that followed.


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## rock monkey (Dec 28, 2002)

I agree it takes work to be a GOOD field shooter. It also takes work to be a GOOD 3d shooter too, so lets not try to make it sound like we're trivializin 3d.

people seem to stress WAY too much on the scoring aspect and WAYYYYY too little on the fun aspect.

yes, we are gaining many new participants for field. Some who in the past that made it clear they would prefer to lose an arm before thinkin about that 'other' venue, let alone try it.

I have asked what makes you want to patronize a club and many of the responses to that are already in place with my club. Clean porta potty, hot food, cold drinks and ice cream, good bales and a clean and clear practice range. Weather has taken a toll on our practice bags so those may be the next upgrade.

with all the complaints about 3d targets and their cost, field really is an economical alternative, along with a better 'cost per arrow' factor for both shooters and clubs. Manpower not included in the equation.

once people understand that field is less about score and more about the comaraderie like the hillbilly it will pick up and gain numbers.


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## JawsDad (Dec 28, 2005)

pragmatic_lee said:


> Wonder which event caused the most controversy - not that I've been following you around JD, but I saw those results and some of the discussion that followed.


Oh geez.. You aren't kidding about controversy. Seems like a weekly occurrence now. :doh:


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## JawsDad (Dec 28, 2005)

I'm definitely not trivializing 3D. I think you don't have to look beyond what Levi has done this year to see that a top 3D'er can be a top spot guy too. 

Around here, it does seem that a good number of the FS guys that shoot 3D also shoot field. There are probably a few that don't, but a majority do. It's the hunter class guys that it seems to be difficult to attract. What we're doing is just trying to make sure the field range is ready and waiting. That way any time we have a 3D shoot, we encourage a field shoot as well.


In fact, I'll give all the credit in the world to the pin guys that shoot field archery (especially the hunter round). Holding off or gapping is just something I've never been able to master.


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## pragmatic_lee (Jan 19, 2008)

OK, I'm going to say it, but surely hope I don't offend anyone. "For some, shooting the likeness of an animal has a macho effect that shooting paper does not." 

Now, before anyone crawls me over this statement, think about it real hard and at the same time consider why a lot of folks shot 3D for the "first time".


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## treaton (Jul 21, 2006)

rock monkey said:


> I agree it takes work to be a GOOD field shooter. It also takes work to be a GOOD 3d shooter too, so lets not try to make it sound like we're trivializin 3d.
> 
> people seem to stress WAY too much on the scoring aspect and WAYYYYY too little on the fun aspect.
> 
> ...



There's your answer!!! :tongue:


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## JawsDad (Dec 28, 2005)

I think there might be something to that.. I can obviously understand those that use 3D to augment their hunting training. Does shooting a T-Rex or Mosquito target aid in that? :noidea:

I do believe to the casual archer (hunter), 3D is just considered more user friendly. Just because it's more recognizable.


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## rock monkey (Dec 28, 2002)

what I mean by trivializing is much like how field shooters have been talked down to, implied or even told that our game isn't relevant or a challenge.

the top dogs in any venue put in immense amount of commitment, sacrifice and time to get to where they are. Even the top amatures have the same dedication but in lesser degree. They just need an extra push to make the move up.


we have played your game, come play ours.


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## JayMc (Jan 4, 2005)

This argument would already be heated if brown was in town 

As a reformed chewie I'll say it this way....

It's easier to be middle of the pack (and even win occasionally) at 3D than it is in spots. An archer can not hold well or can get on a lucky roll and he will still hit the 10 on a 3D target. I've had days where I judged 2-3 yards hot all day and wore out the 12s b/c I was also holding low fighting TP and getting lucky in that my yardage was wrong to the hot side. I've had other days when I was so loose in my form I would have struggled to shoot a 280 5 spot round, but I still shot a respectable 3D score b/c in a 40-45yd max class the 10 ring is that darn big.

At spots your errors can't cancel one another out as often. If you're fighting a tendency to hold low 1/2 the time you will shoot 4s 1/2 the time. Either the 1/2 when you intentionally miss-set your sight hot and your brain lets you hold in the dot and you shoot a high 4 - or - the half when you set your sight correctly and you drop out the bottom on half your shots. You can play the offset game a lot easier in 3D.

The margin of error to shoot par in 3D is a lot higher than the margin of error to shoot par in field. Ask anybody who's had success at both and you'll get agreement. Keyboard archers will often disagree though.

A really good 3D archer can transition to spots and hold his own. A mediocre spot shooter can shoot 3D and likely will do well, at least above the median. A mediocre 3D shooter who tries spots has a high likelihood of getting beat badly. I've witnessed it a lot recently at local shoots and sectionals.

It's not ego, it's not a superiority thing, it's just an observation  Blast away girls. :darkbeer:

FYI - I was on the phone this morning with a former spot pro who has pretty much everybody's respect in the spot world. I told him how well I held on 3D a few weeks ago when my dad wanted to shoot it. He said, "after field and fita doesn't 3D feel like gravy". I couldn't help but laugh


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## Indianbullet (Jan 18, 2003)

What you have taken out of context is the fact that out here in Calif and lots of the West, that 3d shoot along with 90% of them is MARKED YARDAGE.... 
Those replying to the idea hey ya let see how many fools will shoot through a steel deer into a rock pile... Well those are your unmarked 3d folks that don't mind blowing up a $12 arrow I guess, us on the other hand that shoot MARKED 3d and FIELD would never, ever think of shooting a $35 arrow into the abyss 
like with any equipment I own from hot rods to archery equipment I've never been one to tear shizzt up just because I could.

but thats just me, daddy never bought my stuff I guess


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## Ron Meadows (Aug 17, 2005)

Takes more than that Sarge!!! I've busted my hump for 3 years now and I still SUCK!!! Maybe at the end of the day the reason is that there are no excuses in field archery.....you either make a good shot and hit the dot or you don't....no BS about this, that, and the other thing....just you, you're bow, you're arrows, and the target.....I think that is what keeps me coming back though.....



psargeant said:


> It takes work to be a *good* field shooter...maybe that is it...


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## Indianbullet (Jan 18, 2003)

Ron Meadows said:


> Takes more than that Sarge!!! I've busted my hump for 3 years now and I still SUCK!!! Maybe at the end of the day the reason is that there are no excuses in field archery.....you either make a good shot and hit the dot or you don't....no BS about this, that, and the other thing....just you, you're bow, you're arrows, and the target.....I think that is what keeps me coming back though.....


+100%, there are no built in excuses,, I think unmarked also draws those with target panic as well, not to mention those who settle for mediocrity if you get TP and your a field shooter or marked 3d shooter as out here, you work through it or you drop out. 
what I don't want to convey is that those who settle for mediocrity cant and aren't having fun because I sure did growing up in and learning the sport
personally I don't ever want to settle for mediocrity anymore, its so much more rewarding when I'm honest about my shots. Hasn't always been easy, learning to let go of the mistakes. But it the long run your better for accepting the fact that to shoot field and marked venues you, your form and shot execution and the consistency of those. Put the arrow in the X... Sure you may luck one or trick one in but don't analyze that one just enjoy it. Remember and reinforce how those good shots felt and do your best to do it again and again.

Happy 4th to everyone be safe in all you do.


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## bowjunkie (Sep 9, 2002)

*Here is my view*

I will say this with Confidence. 

IT is harder to be good a Field then it does at 3D. 

Here is my reasoning. I have shot 3D for over a decade. I have shot and placed well in my respective class. For family reasons I quit archery over 2 years ago. Still shot a little just didn't travel and compete. I decided to go to the hillbilly shoot this year to see alot of old friends and meet some new ones and Try a different form or archery. I setup a bow to shoot 80 yds and tunes and tweeked till it was right. Now If you make an error in form or follow through at 80 yds YOU WILL KNOW IT INSTANTLY!!!!!! you can get by with way too many form flaws and error in 3D because the yardages are alot shorter, But you must have good form to shoot a field tourney with a good score. in the Field game there is no slapping the trigger or bad follow through on the 50 - 80yard targets and have the scores up there where you want them. It just ain't gona happen. If people would tkae the time to shoot Field archery they would see where their problems are and it will definally make them a better shooter. Yes you have a Dot to shoot at but it is better then looking at nothing to aim at and hoping for the best throwed in with not knowing the yardages. 

Both archery avenues have their challanges but field will definally make a better shooter. you can get buy with more mistakes and score better at a 3D then field. 

Take it for what its worth. I am a 3D has been and a field newbee :smile: 

Junkie


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## TANC (Mar 14, 2005)

Hmmmmmm.........I think everyone is right. Making the same points I've been making for some time now. If you are ultra competitive, 3D gives you a better opportunity to do so regardless of skill level. But for some, the harder it is, the more we like it.

Just wish I could get out now and practice. Bad back spasms for a week. All locked up. It sucks. ukey:


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## Bowtechie (Jan 20, 2003)

JayMc said:


> FYI - I was on the phone this morning with a former spot pro who has pretty much everybody's respect in the spot world. I told him how well I held on 3D a few weeks ago when my dad wanted to shoot it. He said, "after field and fita doesn't 3D feel like gravy". I couldn't help but laugh


Well shoot come on up to Nelsonville, OH July 9-11 and get you some of that gravy then.


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## YRhinefield (Feb 22, 2006)

If 3D is so "gravy" why is it that the 3D Pros consistently beat the top field Pros at both unmarked and MARKED 3D? Most can also hold their own at field and indoor dots.

IMO 3D Pros like Morgan, Hopkins, McCarthy & Gillingham are better ALL AROUND shooters at all venues than the field Pros.


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## rock monkey (Dec 28, 2002)

how come the die hards arent beating a blazing path to the unknown fita field then?

it doesnt have that perceived advantage of the known distance taboo. oh wait, you know WHERE to aim.....bzzt, wrong again. still gotta hit it, and hit it another couple of times. doesnt matter if you can see it or not, still have to make the shot regardless.

if the top 3d pros consistently beat the field/fita pros, then how come it was jesse that shot the *FIRST* clean field round in competition? if i recall, jesse is a field shooter. he may dabble in 3d but his thing is the field/fita stuff.

if the 3d pros are so dominant, how come a field/fita pro won vegas ?


they are all excellent archers in their chosen venue and prove it on a regular basis, do not start this 'we're better than you' thing that all die hards like to do.

as we see time and time again, the people that give field and fita an honest and open minded try find out they like it more than they thought.

i didnt ask this question to start a fight, so dont try. i asked the question to satisfy my curiosity as to why people will gladly fling $25 arrows at a steel plate and laugh about it but cry like a little girl when they have to make 2 shots at 80yds and 2 shots at 70yds out of 112 arrows.



YRhinefield said:


> If 3D is so "gravy" why is it that the 3D Pros consistently beat the top field Pros at both unmarked and MARKED 3D? Most can also hold their own at field and indoor dots.
> 
> IMO 3D Pros like Morgan, Hopkins, McCarthy & Gillingham are better ALL AROUND shooters at all venues than the field Pros.


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## JawsDad (Dec 28, 2005)

I have to wonder what top Field/FITA pros _*consistently*_ participate in 3D, marked on unmarked.. :set1_thinking:


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## BOWGOD (Aug 11, 2004)

I've said it time, and time again. Field just lacks promotion. The Hillbilly is a prime example. It receives more promotion on here than any other field shoot in the US. And other than Nationals probably has the highest attendance.

With the way field courses are so spread out these days chances are if you want to shoot one your going to have to travel a little bit. No 3d shooter is going to travel an hour or so to shoot a local club field shoot when they can drive 15 minutes, and shoot a local club 3d shoot. But if the field shoot is promoted as a can't miss EVENT then that might be just enough to make it worth the ride.

The hillbilly introduces many first timers to the game every year. I know I had over a dozen people on the Hill this year who has either never shot field or have only ever tried it once before. About half of them are now looking forward to the next time they can play. One of them is making a 6 hour round trip this week end because they had so much fun that they couldn't wait to shoot it again.

Pomotion, promotion, promotion.


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## YRhinefield (Feb 22, 2006)

JawsDad said:


> I have to wonder what top Field/FITA pros _*consistently*_ participate in 3D, marked on unmarked.. :set1_thinking:


I'm sure you have access to the NFAA site. Results from Redding & Yankton are posted there.


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## YRhinefield (Feb 22, 2006)

rock monkey said:


> how come the die hards arent beating a blazing path to the unknown fita field then? *Simple answer...It's not their preferred venue*
> 
> it doesnt have that perceived advantage of the known distance taboo. oh wait, you know WHERE to aim.....bzzt, wrong again. still gotta hit it, and hit it another couple of times. doesnt matter if you can see it or not, still have to make the shot regardless. *That can be said for all venues.*
> 
> ...


 *I've shot plenty of local field shoots with guys that are predominently 3D shooters and have not witnessed or heard any whining or crying about having to shoot a couple of arrows at 70 and 80 yards. In my experience quite the opposite it true when field shooters shoot 3D. I've witnessed lots of comments like "my X10s cost $300 I'm not going to bust them up shooting at foam". The reason 3D shooters are willing to shoot at the iron buck and other 3D novelties is that it's FUN and adds enjoyment and challenge to the venue. To me that's one of the main differences between 3D and other venues. We have FUN while you guys are so serious.*

*My response wasn't posted to start a fight, to belittle or bash field shooters or the venue but most 3D shooters including myself are tired of hearing and reading crap like "3D is gravy, thre is no skill involved to shoot well" and the other negative comments made by field shooters. Read the threads on the 3D forumn....you don't see folks there badmouthing field or Fita venues.*

*In closing I've been in archery long enough to full acknowledge that top shooters in any venue are well rounded enough to hold their own at any venue and place at or near the top. Have FUN and shoot straight >>------>*


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## JawsDad (Dec 28, 2005)

YRhinefield said:


> I'm sure you have access to the NFAA site. Results from Redding & Yankton are posted there.


True.. So 2 shoots. 

Like I mentioned before, when you're talking about the top guys, I think all bets are off. I already gave Levi his props for the year he's had. But, I don't think I'm ready to completely say that makes the entire debate a moot point. Beside the point, I'm not sure we're talking about the top pro. I think we're referring more to the rank and file archer who shoots AMFS in field or perhaps something in the Open Classes of 3D.

I truly believe a top pro in any discipline can be successful in 3D, Field or FITA if they want to put in the time to learn the nuance of that event.


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## Spotshooter2 (Oct 23, 2003)

You can't really say Redding because it is a spot shoot at known distance.


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## Indianbullet (Jan 18, 2003)

Spotshooter2 said:


> You can't really say Redding because it is a spot shoot at known distance.


Ditto as with most all venues out here until mid July


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## Rattleman (Jul 6, 2004)

Riddle me this Batman. Why do these same idiots always try to beat you up on prices when they are buying stuff in the classifieds? They will tear [email protected]%* up and laugh but turn right around and low ball on something they want.


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## Fla_lefty (Feb 13, 2009)

I agree with Bowgod. I started shooting field last year including the Hillbilly. I enjoy it but don't have ready access to a field range any longer. Talking with the "old timers" at my old range, they shot a lot of field and fita but had to have the 3-D shoots to bring in the funds to keep the club going. At the time I left my old club due to a job change, I still think we were raising over 90% of our funds by 3-D. Just not enough field ranges around to get the people involved. Just about everybody can by a foam 3-D target and shoot it in their backyard or nearby field.


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## rock monkey (Dec 28, 2002)

not too sure about that anymore. the price of targets is out the roof these days and gettin worse. the pendulum may swing the other way now.





Fla_lefty said:


> I agree with Bowgod. I started shooting field last year including the Hillbilly. I enjoy it but don't have ready access to a field range any longer. Talking with the "old timers" at my old range, they shot a lot of field and fita but had to have the 3-D shoots to bring in the funds to keep the club going. At the time I left my old club due to a job change, I still think we were raising over 90% of our funds by 3-D. Just not enough field ranges around to get the people involved. Just about everybody can by a foam 3-D target and shoot it in their backyard or nearby field.


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## rock monkey (Dec 28, 2002)

just remember, those 3d only clubs had to start somewhere. many of those clubs have forgotten their roots and forsaken the field game in pursuit of the almighty $$




Fla_lefty said:


> I agree with Bowgod. I started shooting field last year including the Hillbilly. I enjoy it but don't have ready access to a field range any longer. Talking with the "old timers" at my old range, they shot a lot of field and fita but had to have the 3-D shoots to bring in the funds to keep the club going. At the time I left my old club due to a job change, I still think we were raising over 90% of our funds by 3-D. Just not enough field ranges around to get the people involved. Just about everybody can by a foam 3-D target and shoot it in their backyard or nearby field.


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## WrongdayJ (May 22, 2008)

When I first bought a bow and started going to the range. . .I was drawn to 3D first. It seemed more fun to shoot at a foam deer or turkey than a paper spot. I'm just being honest.

But after my first few runs down the 3D course ended in losing/breaking over 3/4 of my arrows. . .I realized I had to learn how to shoot better before I tackled this 3D stuff. So I went over to the Field course and taught myself how to shoot. Now I am a consistant 525-535 shooter. And I still lose or break 3/4 of my arrows running through a 3D course. 

So I stick with Field. . .but secretly I wish that I was better at range estimation and will probably go back and try it again.

I will say this though. . .Field was filled with (in my experience) WAY more open, friendly, and helpful archers than 3D. My experience with almost all of the 3D guys I encountered over the years was quite nasty. They will tear you to pieces over any little rule and your equipment better be top-flight or prepare to be scoffed at. Now this is just my experience, but it has been consistent over the years and across the southwest states in particular.


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## tazhunter0 (Jun 21, 2006)

I shoot indoor, field and 3-d. Better at indoor but been shooting it for 14yrs. Only been shooting field for 2-3yrs and 3d for 4-5yrs. I do pick a spot when shooting 3d and my scores are coming up. I turn it into a spot shoot for me just at longer yardages.

Chris


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## Unclegus (May 27, 2003)

rock monkey said:


> just remember, those 3d only clubs had to start somewhere. many of those clubs have forgotten their roots and forsaken the field game in pursuit of the almighty $$


 Just remember you can't run a club on a turnout of a dozen shooters for a spot shoot. Been there; done that. It ain't about roots, it's about making enough money with the Foam critters to keep the spot shooting afloat...we had to do that for years until we lost our land.


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## Raider2000 (Oct 21, 2003)

My club is one that early on was a 28 field archery range & indoor, later on when 3D really took off it was cut down to 14 target field "indoor range burned down  " with up to 30 target 3D.

Untill last year I only toyed with field shooting mostly for distance shooting practice & to see if I could hit the 80 yarder but now I like the challenge since now I'm shooting traditional "just not quite ready for any range beyond 60 yards" & hope with time & when time at work will allow I'll be shooting more of field rounds soon.

My club is discussing about bringing back the second 14 targets to have a full field & still be able to have our 3D, I'm right now in an attempt to bring in more intrest make up a novelty shoots each time we have a shoot at our club, most times it's just a $1 a arrow with 50/50 pay out, it's something different & to me all of it including the actual shoot is all for fun.


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## Spoon13 (Feb 20, 2007)

To me the biggest difference between 3D and Field is not about the game itself but a difference in the mindset of the shooters.

I am a reformed chewie. Most of you know that already but I figured I'd restate it for those that don't. 

3D shooters are used to having classes. Shooters with identical equipment shooting from DIFFERENT stakes. Field doesn't have that. Our stakes are divided by age group. Some shooters cling to the ability to shoot a shorter yardage like it has the secret to life in it and will use whatever story they need to justify it.

Another major difference I have found is that most 3D shooters don't really care about anything but beating the other folks in their class. It doesn't matter that they shot 25-30 down, did they beat everybody else and get the $7 trophy??

Most Field shooters are really only comparing themselves to, well, themselves. Most are looking to better their PB every time they go on the course. Where they finish in comparison to every one else isn't as important. How did my score compare to my Personal Best??

This what I have seen. I know far more Chewies around here than I do Field shooters. And this is the case with MOST of them.

I do want to reiterate the fact that I use the word *MOST* in my statements. As with everything, there are exceptions.

There are Chewies that really don't care about how they score. There are also Field shooters that try to beat everybody they shoot against. I figure since I haven't really met that shooter yet, I must be it.:becky:


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## rock monkey (Dec 28, 2002)

there are more than 2 classes in the NFAA, it's just the freestyle classes are the most popular.

http://fieldarchery.com/field/styles.cfm
pretty informative page. i think by adding a picture of the targets of the game and the scoring ring values, the page would make one helluva fine cliff's notes version for the new folx.


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## Spoon13 (Feb 20, 2007)

rock monkey said:


> there are more than 2 classes in the NFAA, it's just the freestyle classes are the most popular.
> 
> http://fieldarchery.com/field/styles.cfm
> pretty informative page. i think by adding a picture of the targets of the game and the scoring ring values, the page would make one helluva fine cliff's notes version for the new folx.



Absolutely. The point I was trying to make is that all AMFS shooters shoot the same stakes as well as all the BHFS shooting the same stake. They even shoot the same stakes as each other.

In 3D you have Bow Novice that shoots the same equipment as Hunter class yet they shoot different yardages. Then you have Open C, Open B, Open A, Semi Pro, and Pro that all shoot the same equipment but again from different yardages. 

Most 3D shooters get used to the fact that they don't have to shoot the same yardages as shooters that they percieve to be better than them. An Open C shooter doesn't have to shoot the same stakes as a Semi Pro. They get used to having the course shortened for them and their percieve level of skill.


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## TANC (Mar 14, 2005)

Spoon13 said:


> To me the biggest difference between 3D and Field is not about the game itself but a difference in the mindset of the shooters.
> 
> I am a reformed chewie. Most of you know that already but I figured I'd restate it for those that don't.
> 
> ...


:thumbs_up:thumbs_up


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## Xtorminator (Jan 31, 2008)

Well up here in the NW I have found it to be the other way around. The field archers are more competitive that the 3Ders. Most of the 3Ders that I have been around are there to practice for hunting with their hunting setups. They are getting their "eye" for yardages as there is less tree stand hunting done and more still or spot and stock hunting. Most of them only compete with their buddies and don't even use the standard scoring. But as far as wasting an arrow goes, they feel that it adds the "make the shot" presure. Even though they should have that presure on all shots they don't because they are there for fun and to hang with there buddies.:darkbeer:


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## Indianbullet (Jan 18, 2003)

Almost sounds like lots of you guys back east, your clubs could benefit from putting on MARKED 3-D shoots like everyone out west does, The clubs still have dedicated field ranges but they will put on the marked 3-D shoots and make good money for the clubs. Out here as some new clubs have found out the hard way you put on an un-marked 3d shoot, you and your 50 buddy's will have fun, you put a dot and a kill ring on that target shoot two arrows at it, score it 11,10,& 8 you shoot 42 of those targets and you pull in 200-300 shooters Cha Ching 
Perfect score is 924 anything over 900 is nothing to sneeze at, all NFAA class rules apply NFAA members get a couple bucks off registration and your shooting that shoot in front of your dedicated field/hunter round. Granted the targets like we have here in Redding and all around the state at various clubs are spendy but these clubs pull in serious money doing this type of venue once a year.
just my 02
hope everyone had a nice 4th


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