# 2nd Leg of IBO-What happened?



## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

I guess weather played hobs with the IBO shoot at Bloomington, Indiana. Would like to hear from some folks who were there. Understand some tornados went through that area yesterday.

Hate to see that happen to all the folks who attended.


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## friend of coal (Jan 14, 2010)

They called it off for the pros and semi pros on Sunday due to flooding on their ranges. But I think the IBO handle the weather situation very well with the amateurs. They got everybody to their ranges and from what I heard everyone got to finish today. I think the IBO and Indiana DNR
done a great job with this shoot considering all the storms that rolled through the area Saturday and Sunday. We was told that it didn’t matter how long they had to stay everyone would get to finish.


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## cowdocdvm (Apr 24, 2011)

Nothing you can do about the weather.


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## Bucket (Jan 6, 2006)

Indiana DNR had a nice job. Mother Nature was being a ...angry woman. We watched the forecast and thought we could get our rounds in Saturday and Sunday. I ended up only getting 20 targets in. Had a 8 1/2hr drive home and didn't want to stick around to wait for the storms to pass so I could get them in. Totally my fault for not shoot some of them on Friday.


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## Hittingguru (Oct 1, 2004)

I'm happy to see some positive out of that shoot. Looking at the numbers, though, only 610 shooters, and another 33 doing the field side of it. What is probably the toughest number to digest is the fact that the two largest classes were Senior Hunter (50+ age) Men's Senior (50+ age) with both classes in the 40's as far as numbers. That doesn't bode well for the future of the sport.


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## cowdocdvm (Apr 24, 2011)

I have been a fan of the IBO but it’s looking like some changes need to happen.


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## GreggWNY (Sep 6, 2002)

cowdocdvm said:


> I have been a fan of the IBO but it’s looking like some changes need to happen.


Don't hold your breath for any positive changes...you'll suffocate.


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## Bucket (Jan 6, 2006)

GreggWNY said:


> Don't hold your breath for any positive changes...you'll suffocate.


Maybe the best change would be not to change. Nothing wrong with it as it is IMO.


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## sagecreek (Jul 15, 2003)

Bucket said:


> Maybe the best change would be not to change. Nothing wrong with it as it is IMO.


True that


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## Trykon Mike (Aug 25, 2007)

this has always been the best shoot of all 3 legs every year
trails are clearly marked 
plenty of water on the course
portables on the course
some tough yardage to judge
DNR walking the course
I wish every shoot was like this


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## cowdocdvm (Apr 24, 2011)

Bucket said:


> Maybe the best change would be not to change. Nothing wrong with it as it is IMO.


Well with numbers down like they are something has to give. At what break point do the shoots cease to exist? We are approaching 1/3 of the attendance that a triple crown leg used to get. Being in central PA I’m concerned that shortly I will no longer have a place to compete. ASA is just too far. I can make it to a couple IBO events each year....hopefully that opportunity is there in the future


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## nestly (Apr 19, 2015)

Bucket said:


> Maybe the best change would be not to change. Nothing wrong with it as it is IMO.



Ever dropping shooter attendance
Ever dropping vendor attendance
Lousy prizes/payout
No class for the equipment 2/3rds of the archers want to use while shooting archery.

Yeah, hang on to that "no change" thing as long as possible, you're only hurting yourself (and every archer in IBO territory that would participate if IBO wasn't sending a clear message that they don't care about making a better experience for a larger number of archers)


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## NP Archery (Jul 29, 2008)

Not familiar at all with the IBO or any of it's leaders, but.....is there a chance that they are as big as they want to be? With all of the opportunity that seems to be out there, it's kinda strange that they are overlooking such a huge shooter base that could be had with only slightly more effort.


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## nestly (Apr 19, 2015)

NP Archery said:


> Not familiar at all with the IBO or any of it's leaders, but.....is there a chance that they are as big as they want to be? With all of the opportunity that seems to be out there, it's kinda strange that they are overlooking such a huge shooter base that could be had with only slightly more effort.


It's ideology, plain and simple, an ideology from an era that ended long ago. One or more dominant people in IBO leadership hates the very concept of shooting at foam animals at known distance. IMO, they also feel like they are the "original" 3D, and even if other organizations have demonstrated there are better models for 3D tournaments which appeal to a larger number of people, IBO somehow thinks clinging onto the original model rather than adapting to the preferences of modern archers makes them pure/superior. It's got nothing to do with anything other than IBO's leadership need to be in "control" and not consider that their ideas about what 3D "should" be are outdated and unappealing to the majority of current bowhunters and target archers.


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## NP Archery (Jul 29, 2008)

nestly said:


> It's ideology, plain and simple, an ideology from an era that ended long ago. One or more dominant people in IBO leadership hates the very concept of shooting at foam animals at known distance. IMO, they also feel like they are the "original" 3D, and even if other organizations have demonstrated there are better models for 3D tournaments which appeal to a larger number of people, IBO somehow thinks clinging onto the original model rather than adapting to the preferences of modern archers makes them pure/superior. It's got nothing to do with anything other than IBO's leadership need to be in "control" and not consider that their ideas about what 3D "should" be are outdated and unappealing to the majority of current bowhunters and target archers.


If that's it, it's sad to see. I'm sure the manufactures and vendors would love to see the growth. The increase in shooters would surely be followed with increased contingency that trickles down to the amateurs. Sounds like a good time for some archery interested promoter to start up a organization in that area. Glad I'm in ASA country for sure.


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## cowdocdvm (Apr 24, 2011)

Also...if shooter numbers increase more money would be donated to defend bow hunting rights. They are a non-profit


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## nestly (Apr 19, 2015)

NP Archery said:


> If that's it, it's sad to see. I'm sure the manufactures and vendors would love to see the growth. The increase in shooters would surely be followed with increased contingency that trickles down to the amateurs. Sounds like a good time for some archery interested promoter to start up a organization in that area. Glad I'm in ASA country for sure.


I was an IBO shooter first, and I loved the additional challenge of shooting unknown. Back then (1990's) MBO alone could have more competitors than all the classes combined at any given IBO NTC leg. Heck, MCA (fingers) class may have had more than MBO draws these days. Basically, back then at the beginning of 3D, there were no rangefinders, at least not any that were accurate, so unknown made sense, but lets not get it twisted, "bowhunting" for the majority has NEVER been "unknown". Before we had rangefingers, we either stepped off, or measured landmarks from our treestands. Actually "judging" a game animal before the shot was a last resort, so no different than how we "bowhunt" today. That was 20 to 30 years ago though... equipment has changed vastly since then, and rangefinders are as much a part of standard bowhunting equipment as release aids are. For those that "want" to shoot unknown, that class should exist, but so too should 'known" classes because that's how the majority of bowhunters practice and hunt these days. Taking away rangefinders from archers is requiring them to use more primitive methods of shooting than they use on a daily basis. Would be no different than IBO banning release aids and telling everyone that uses a release aid to just stay home on the couch.. we don't want you at our venues. 
I'm in a good location to shoot IBO, and I love all types of competitive archery, but "unknown" is at most 50% about accuracy with a bow, the other 50% is about skill judging distance. I don't have the desire, or the need to be able to judge distance within 1 yard for any reason, so I have no interest in "unknown" which means IBO could care less that I'm a potential supporter if they just didn't hate my preferences so much.


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## Bucket (Jan 6, 2006)

nestly said:


> It's ideology, plain and simple, an ideology from an era that ended long ago. One or more dominant people in IBO leadership hates the very concept of shooting at foam animals at known distance. IMO, they also feel like they are the "original" 3D, and even if other organizations have demonstrated there are better models for 3D tournaments which appeal to a larger number of people, IBO somehow thinks clinging onto the original model rather than adapting to the preferences of modern archers makes them pure/superior. It's got nothing to do with anything other than IBO's leadership need to be in "control" and not consider that their ideas about what 3D "should" be are outdated and unappealing to the majority of current bowhunters and target archers.



I'm not sure I agree with all that. Just because my idea of a fun shoot doesn't match a lot of peoples, doesn't mean I'm wrong. Or that the other ideas are wrong either. I have no interest in shooting known. Others have no interest in learning to judge distance...fortunately there is something for each.


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## nestly (Apr 19, 2015)

Bucket said:


> I'm not sure I agree with all that. Just because my idea of a fun shoot doesn't match a lot of peoples, doesn't mean I'm wrong. Or that the other ideas are wrong either. I have no interest in shooting known. Others have no interest in learning to judge distance...fortunately there is something for each.


Nobody is saying you have to shoot known, if you prefer that style, then shoot it, but stop denying others (who don't agree with your preference by a large margin) the opportunity to participate.

and there's only "something for everyone" if you live near ASA and have a choice between "known" and "unknown". If you live near IBO and want to compete, there's NOTHING for the majority. Don't even try to bring up those stupid round targets with dots on them... 39 people shot them all weekend at the 1st leg.. only 29 at the 2nd leg, that's nothing archers asked for, and obviously nothing they want. All IBO had to do is stake 40 3D animals in the ground on that course instead of 40 stupid metal target frames, and that would have created the opportunity that MOST modern archers have been pleading for.


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## Bucket (Jan 6, 2006)

I'm not trying to defend the IBO...so i hope thats not what it sounds like. And i agree that the field thing is a bust. But i think they have the right to provide whatever they want. If they go under because of it, then its on them. 

Sounds like you may have found a new opportunity...why don't you put a few shoots together. If there is that much of a calling, it should be easy to sell sponsors.


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## Bucket (Jan 6, 2006)

Rather than trying to change IBO, why dont those that want to shoot known in the Northeast push ASA to schedule more in this area?


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## nestly (Apr 19, 2015)

Bucket said:


> Rather than trying to change IBO, why dont those that want to shoot known in the Northeast push ASA to schedule more in this area?


ASA has been up here... several times. Luckily, I was around for it the first year ASA has a National series (1993) and I shot the ProAm at Ski RoundTop in PA. I had already been shooting IBO NTC, and I was blown away how much more professional and shooter friendly ASA was right from the beginning. That was the beginning of the decline of IBO because ASA showed people how 3D tournaments "should" be conducted. I'm not talking about "format", I'm talking about attention to detail, enforceable competitive controls, and of course, appropriate prizes and awards relative to the registration fees.

Just as IBO doesn't move out of it's "area" ASA already had a solid base of shooters in the South East, and it didn't/doesn't make sense to try to get all them to "travel" out of region, and it doesn't make sense for a "southern based" organization to hold distant shoots, even if the turnouts are the same. 
What ASA does different than IBO though is they actually listen to the shooters that are in geographic proximity to their shoots, and they adapt to their needs and make the tournament agreeable to the maximum number of people that are available. 

IBO has their heads stuck in sand... and that's fine I guess if they want to ride that train into the ditch, it just sucks for all the archers that are local to IBO that just want a place to shoot competitive 3D that's not a completely different game than how they normally practice and bowhunt.


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## cowdocdvm (Apr 24, 2011)

I agree with nestly. And I’ll admit I didn’t in the past. I like the IBO unknown format and courses. But.....I do know that if the IBO goes under....my competitive 3D opportunity is gone. I think they need known yardage classes immediately to survive.


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## nestly (Apr 19, 2015)

I didnt always agree with me either, but its obvious to me now its selfish and self serving to try to deny others the enjoyment of shooting 3D animals because they prefer to do it a little differently than the way I learned how to do it 

Sent from my LGLS755 using Tapatalk


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## B3AV3R (Apr 19, 2006)

nestly said:


> I didnt always agree with me either, but its obvious to me now its selfish and self serving to try to deny others the enjoyment of shooting 3D animals because they prefer to do it a little differently than the way I learned how to do it
> 
> Sent from my LGLS755 using Tapatalk


If this was facebook, I would have just hit this comment with the heart emoji. Haha. I couldn't have said that any better.


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## hrtlnd164 (Mar 22, 2008)

nestly said:


> I didnt always agree with me either, but its obvious to me now its selfish and self serving to try to deny others the enjoyment of shooting 3D animals because they prefer to do it a little differently than the way I learned how to do it
> 
> Sent from my LGLS755 using Tapatalk


Yep!


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## UncleBear63 (Jan 2, 2016)

The IBO isn't going to add known yardage so we all need to forget about it and shoot what you like. Talk to the board or even Brian...…….no known yardage.


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## Hittingguru (Oct 1, 2004)

Talking about the IBO and known yardage is :deadhorse. I brought up a glaring fact that not only is the overall shooter base deteriorating (for whatever reason), but the two largest groups are, well let's just say they are on the "Back nine" on the golf course of life. There is no young surge of shooters, and I'm not referring to kids under 18. I referring to those between the age of 18 and 35.


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## nestly (Apr 19, 2015)

Hittingguru said:


> Talking about the IBO and known yardage is :deadhorse. I brought up a glaring fact that not only is the overall shooter base deteriorating (for whatever reason), but the two largest groups are, well let's just say they are on the "Back nine" on the golf course of life. There is no young surge of shooters, and I'm not referring to kids under 18. I referring to those between the age of 18 and 35.


ASA isn't struggling with deteriorating numbers. The reason is they actually have a product that's appealing to a large shooter base, and they don't tell 2/3rds (or more) of the potential shooter base they aren't welcome.

IBO's problem is they have leadership that isn't open to the ideas that are needed to make it appealing to a large number of shooters (and vendors). They want to do things the way they've always done them, but the majority of the shooters don't want to do things that way anymore (and I'm not just talking about known-vs-unknown)


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## Hittingguru (Oct 1, 2004)

nestly said:


> ASA isn't struggling with deteriorating numbers. The reason is they actually have a product that's appealing to a large shooter base, and they don't tell 2/3rds (or more) of the potential shooter base they aren't welcome.
> 
> IBO's problem is they have leadership that isn't open to the ideas that are needed to make it appealing to a large number of shooters (and vendors). They want to do things the way they've always done them, but the majority of the shooters don't want to do things that way anymore (and I'm not just talking about known-vs-unknown)


:thumbs_up:thumbs_up


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## grandd7 (Feb 25, 2010)

The difference is ASA is conducted as a business ran as a business . IBO is ran by volunteers it doesn't matter what the shooters # are. Remove volunteer from archery and it will grow


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## nestly (Apr 19, 2015)

Not sure "volunteer" is quite the right term. IBO has paid staff, and the host club receives a large percentage of the revenue from registration. There are many entities involved with the "non-profit" organization known at International Bowhunters Organization, that are well compensated for their time and effort.

I obviously don't have access to their books, but Sponsors pay to be sponsors, and using the average from 1st and 2nd leg, they take in upward of $40,000 in registration fees per leg.


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

nestly said:


> ASA has been up here... several times. Luckily, I was around for it the first year ASA has a National series (1993) and I shot the ProAm at Ski RoundTop in PA. I had already been shooting IBO NTC, and I was blown away how much more professional and shooter friendly ASA was right from the beginning. That was the beginning of the decline of IBO because ASA showed people how 3D tournaments "should" be conducted. I'm not talking about "format", I'm talking about attention to detail, enforceable competitive controls, and of course, appropriate prizes and awards relative to the registration fees.
> 
> Just as IBO doesn't move out of it's "area" ASA already had a solid base of shooters in the South East, and it didn't/doesn't make sense to try to get all them to "travel" out of region, and it doesn't make sense for a "southern based" organization to hold distant shoots, even if the turnouts are the same.
> What ASA does different than IBO though is they actually listen to the shooters that are in geographic proximity to their shoots, and they adapt to their needs and make the tournament agreeable to the maximum number of people that are available.
> ...


Remember Regions Bowhunter Pro Am Tour. Crashed and burned.


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## BubbaDean2 (May 25, 2017)

Regions was handed a winning business model. The problem was the owner would screw up a one car funeral. The original plan for Regions was to stay in IBO country offer competitive shoots and keep McKenzie targets viable in the North. It only took Dick one year to screw that up. Plus when shooters don't get paid or not paid what they were promised things go downhill fast.


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

The IBO leadership's actions or lack of is proof they are perfectly comfortable with membership and tournament participation numbers dwindling drastically under their direction. IBO leadership have unequivocally failed and have done so _every_ year for a decade. It's just sad that a handful of people choose to let a very strong and vibrant archery community shrivel to a fraction of what it once was for no other reason than shear stubbornness. 

Maybe years from now unknown distance 3d will make a strong come back, and it very well may, and the old IBO folks can claim they were right all along. But they will again be wrong. Having known distance classes today does not preclude having unknown classes tomorrow.

If someone chooses to make a move in IBO territory using the basic structure of the ASA, and they may already have, IBO tournament participation numbers are likely to weaken even more.


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## Joekohnen (Nov 13, 2018)

High winds and lightning advisory’s as well as tornados


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## cowdocdvm (Apr 24, 2011)

The other problem that with the IBO is the tournaments are spreading out as well. With a fairly strong base in the northeast....there are 2 shoots in Kentucky 2 in West Virginia this year 1 in Indiana and 1 in PA. So only 1 shoot in a northeastern state. If someone comes in and makes a go in PA New York ohio northern West Virginia Maryland etc I believe it would do well


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

Who decides how the income at an IBO triple crown shoot is divided up? I was told the local club makes the biggest share and that the local club at Bedford made enough to purchase quite bit of ground and make nice improvements.

I know Mike and the ASA take a good cut, but it seems like a lot more money gets into the shooters' pockets. Not so much at IBO.

Is it possible that the vendors could lean on IBO and get some positive changes going?


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## 918OKIE (Mar 2, 2019)

Most get into shooting 3-d animals to get better at hunting but many shoot just because they love to shoot and don't hunt at all !


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## nestly (Apr 19, 2015)

carlosii said:


> Who decides how the income at an IBO triple crown shoot is divided up? I was told the local club makes the biggest share and that the local club at Bedford made enough to purchase quite bit of ground and make nice improvements.
> 
> I know Mike and the ASA take a good cut, but it seems like a lot more money gets into the shooters' pockets. Not so much at IBO.
> 
> Is it possible that the vendors could lean on IBO and get some positive changes going?


Here's some simple number to chew on.

A typical ASA may get about 1800 amateurs paying $50 each, that's $90,000 taken in from amateur registration, but ASA pays back 80% ($72,000) of that to the archers, so ASA's "take" per tournament is about $18,000 (not counting what they set aside for worlds/SOY)

On the other hand, IBO may draw about 650 amateurs at $55 each, which is $35,750, but IBO only pays back 20% ($7150) and "keeps" the remaining $28,600 (not counting what's set aside for worlds/SOY).

So think about that, IBO's "take" per tournament on registration fees is nearly double that of ASA even though IBO's attendance is only 1/3rd because IBO basically "keeps" almost all of the registration fees to reward themselves, the host club, and whatever other entities they choose, for there ability to extract money from archers without giving them much back in return. If you wonder why IBO doesn't want to "change" look no farther than the $$$. I would say IBO leadership, and the clubs that benefit from IBO's current format are quite "comfortable" with it.


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## cowdocdvm (Apr 24, 2011)

nestly said:


> Here's some simple number to chew on.
> 
> A typical ASA may get about 1800 amateurs paying $50 each, that's $90,000 taken in from amateur registration, but ASA pays back 80% ($72,000) of that to the archers, so ASA's "take" per tournament is about $18,000 (not counting what they set aside for worlds/SOY)
> 
> ...


This is a great point


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## GreggWNY (Sep 6, 2002)

ASA has a huge vendor following each paying fees to the ASA. IBO has zero vendors so they make zero money.
ASA the team shoots which makes them money. IBO Doesn't give a crap about the shooters so they have no team shoot.
ASA Has the Sims range that is always packed full of shooters paying fees (although they do pay back.) IBO doesn't give a crap so they have crappy practice courses for $5.

I shot every one of the Triple Crowns and Worlds for 20 years.. now, I won't give them a dime until they enact some positive changes.


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## tprody (Feb 28, 2010)

You guys aren't even close on your figures. Not everyone pays $55. The host clubs get paid a set amount per shooter. If you think the clubs are getting rich off this then I must be going about things wrong. I took this on as a way to help my community. The hours I put into this plus my expenses sure didn't pad my checking account. Add to that the expenses involved with bringing the staff and maintaining an office paying those employees. No one is getting rich. We also don't make a community pay us to come to there area as does the ASA. Please do you research before forming opinions. Thanks.

Sent from my E6810 using Tapatalk


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## nestly (Apr 19, 2015)

Here's a more graphical comparison 
IBO 2nd Leg MBO class (43 shooters)
ASA Georgia Open C (42 shooters)

1st place at IBO payed less than 9th place at ASA despite the IBO class having 1 additional shooter and IBO having higher registration fees. (IBO MBO $55, ASA Open C $50) 
I would love to see a competitive 3D series in the North, but people need to open their eyes and realize that IBO isn't it and supporting them is just propping up an organization that has no interest in the archers or vendors/sponsors.


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## nestly (Apr 19, 2015)

tprody said:


> You guys aren't even close on your figures. *Not everyone pays $55*. The host clubs get paid a set amount per shooter. If you think the clubs are getting rich off this then I must be going about things wrong. I took this on as a way to help my community. The hours I put into this plus my expenses sure didn't pad my checking account. Add to that the expenses involved with bringing the staff and maintaining an office paying those employees. No one is getting rich. We also don't make a community pay us to come to there area as does the ASA. Please do you research before forming opinions. Thanks.


The registration fees are right there on the IBO website.... kids pay less, everyone else pays $55 except pro classes that pay more. Across the board, IBO fees are higher than ASA, and IBO paybacks are MUCH lower. Even if an amateur wins their class in IBO they'll be losing money after subtracting registration and membership dues never mind travel and lodging ... people will only put up with being taken advantage of for so long.

As for all the rest, including your time.... sorry, but you're invested in an organization with a lousy model. ASA puts on a much better event, at nicer facilities, and rewards their participants appropriately for their support... and they do so while being a "for profit" business, not a "non-profit" (as though anyone really believes no one is profiting from IBO events) (shrug)


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## Tactical-N8 (Feb 14, 2016)

tprody said:


> You guys aren't even close on your figures. Not everyone pays $55. The host clubs get paid a set amount per shooter. If you think the clubs are getting rich off this then I must be going about things wrong. I took this on as a way to help my community. The hours I put into this plus my expenses sure didn't pad my checking account. Add to that the expenses involved with bringing the staff and maintaining an office paying those employees. No one is getting rich. We also don't make a community pay us to come to there area as does the ASA. Please do you research before forming opinions. Thanks.
> 
> Sent from my E6810 using Tapatalk


We'll said! Unfortunately your not going to get through to the same handful of keyboard warriors that like to dredge the IBO vs. ASA debate up several times a year.

But I can't wait for the 3rd leg. You guys put on an awesome shoot last year! See you in a couple weeks!

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk


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## tprody (Feb 28, 2010)

Tactical-N8 said:


> We'll said! Unfortunately your not going to get through to the same handful of keyboard warriors that like to dredge the IBO vs. ASA debate up several times a year.
> 
> But I can't wait for the 3rd leg. You guys put on an awesome shoot last year! See you in a couple weeks!
> 
> Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk


Thanks looking forward to seeing you there. I should have known better but sometimes its hard to keep quiet.


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

Nobody's getting rich in the IBO and that's because they aren't drawing the shooters. They aren't drawing the shooters because they don't offer what many shooters want.

IBO should sell out to Mike and ASA and make everybody happy. LOL


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## nestly (Apr 19, 2015)

I'd like some clarification on the "not everyone pays $55" comment. The example given was MBO, but upon that comment, I double checked and provided a screenshot that indicates that $55 is the standard registration fees for IBO NTC. So I'm interested in knowing who doesn't pay the $55 since that's what you lead off with? Are you talking about State Reps and other IBO affiliates that get to shoot for free, because if so, maybe you don't care to elaborate on how a fair portion of the money that is being payed out is going to people that didn't even contribute to the pot? 

As for the suggestion that ASA puts a burden on the community, I think it's fairly naive to suggest the communities aren't sponsoring the ASA events because it's a net benefit for them to do so. Having those 1800 shooters plus family/spectators patronizing the local businesses, vs not having them there is (or should be) something the community wants. Nobody is twisting the collective arm of a community/city/town to host an ASA event, they want the event there, even to the point of paying/sponsoring the event. If IBO doesn't get that same enthusiasm from a community when they hold an event, that says a lot more about IBO than it does ASA.


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

nestly said:


> I'd like some clarification on the "not everyone pays $55" comment. The example given was MBO, but upon that comment, I double checked and provided a screenshot that indicates that $55 is the standard registration fees for IBO NTC. So I'm interested in knowing who doesn't pay the $55 since that's what you lead off with? Are you talking about State Reps and other IBO affiliates that get to shoot for free, because if so, maybe you don't care to elaborate on how a fair portion of the money that is being payed out is going to people that didn't even contribute to the pot?
> 
> As for the suggestion that ASA puts a burden on the community, I think it's fairly naive to suggest the communities aren't sponsoring the ASA events because it's a net benefit for them to do so. Having those 1800 shooters plus family/spectators patronizing the local businesses, vs not having them there is (or should be) something the community wants. Nobody is twisting the collective arm of a community/city/town to host an ASA event, they want the event there, even to the point of paying/sponsoring the event. If IBO doesn't get that same enthusiasm from a community when they hold an event, that says a lot more about IBO than it does ASA.


AT needs to put in a LIKE button!


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## kcbuckeye22 (Nov 19, 2010)

tprody said:


> Thanks looking forward to seeing you there. I should have known better but sometimes its hard to keep quiet.


I’ll take a jab at ya. We the shooters are asking something of the IBO. We’d love to see the IBO thrive. However, it seems the IBO isn’t listening to shooters. I’m a unknown shooter, however it’s obvious to see known classes draw crowds. You’ve alienated 2/3s of the shooters. If you really want to support the R3 and hunter recruitment, support it with offering shoots for everyone. Draw in those crowds! More people shooting is better for archery and better for hunting.


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## nestly (Apr 19, 2015)

kcbuckeye22 said:


> I’ll take a jab at ya. We the shooters are asking something of the IBO. We’d love to see the IBO thrive. However, it seems the IBO isn’t listening to shooters. I’m a unknown shooter, however it’s obvious to see known classes draw crowds. You’ve alienated 2/3s of the shooters. If you really want to support the R3 and hunter recruitment, support it with offering shoots for everyone. Draw in those crowds! More people shooting is better for archery and better for hunting.


Agree. Myself and others probably seem like we hate IBO, which really isn't the case, we just hate the fact that IBO is doing pretty much exactly the opposite of what it should be doing to grow interest in competitive archery. Yeah, the lack of unknown classes is a big part of it, but I'd shoot the IBO Triple Crown series as an unknown shooter if it were legitimate competition with appropriate level of awards and prestige that should be associated with a "national" tournament series. As it stands, there's no incentive to invest the time, money, effort into shooting IBO, I can go shoot 40 at a local shoot and get the same experience, or I can go shoot 100 targets at TAC or similar events and have a lot more fun for equal or less money.

The fact that IBO won't add known is just the most obvious indicator that current leadership is out of touch and incapable of comprehending how much damage they are doing to archery, especially competitive archery.


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## kcbuckeye22 (Nov 19, 2010)

tprody said:


> Thanks looking forward to seeing you there. I should have known better but sometimes its hard to keep quiet.


I’ll take a jab at ya. We the shooters are asking something of the IBO. We’d love to see the IBO thrive. However, it seems the IBO isn’t listening to shooters. I’m a unknown shooter, however it’s obvious to see known classes draw crowds. You’ve alienated 2/3s of the shooters. If you really want to support the R3 and hunter recruitment, support it with offering shoots for everyone. Draw in those crowds! More people shooting is better for archery and better for hunting.


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

You reckon Mike and the ASA folks really don't want IBO to intro known classes. Keeps folks coming back to ASA. LOL


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## kcbuckeye22 (Nov 19, 2010)

tprody said:


> Thanks looking forward to seeing you there. I should have known better but sometimes its hard to keep quiet.


I’ll take a jab at ya. We the shooters are asking something of the IBO. We’d love to see the IBO thrive. However, it seems the IBO isn’t listening to shooters. I’m a unknown shooter, however it’s obvious to see known classes draw crowds. You’ve alienated 2/3s of the shooters. If you really want to support the R3 and hunter recruitment, support it with offering shoots for everyone. Draw in those crowds! More people shooting is better for archery and better for hunting.


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