# Single vs Dual Cam



## backcast88 (Mar 7, 2009)

I am pretty new to archery and currently shoot a single cam bow. What are the advantage/disadvantages of a single cam bow? Same question applies for dual cam bows. Lets hear what everybody thing as to what is better and why.


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## Matador_0 (Mar 8, 2007)

backcast88 said:


> I am pretty new to archery and currently shoot a single cam bow. What are the advantage/disadvantages of a single cam bow? Same question applies for dual cam bows. Lets hear what everybody thing as to what is better and why.


Dual or binary cam bows are typically a tad faster. It is easier to design an agressive draw force curve on them. Many have draw stops so generally they have a more solid wall. They are thought to be a little noisier than single cams.

Single cam bows are a tad slower in general, and they are though of as being a little quieter. In addition, they are less likely to go out of tune, and when they do the effect on arrow flight is not as significant as in 2 cam bows. The weakest part in the whole setup is the cable yoke (the Y part that attacches to the limb). If one of the arms of the yoke streches more than the other, the idler wheel might lean. In the past single cam bows where seen as being more precise and easier to keep in tune.

Nowdays with binary cams and non-streching string materials, it is just a matter of preference.

So in summary:

2 cams: faster + solid wall.
single cams: quieter + easier maintenance

Just my 2 cents, of course you will find lots of digressing opinions on this topic


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## Okie918 (Aug 3, 2009)

Matador_0 said:


> Dual or binary cam bows are typically a tad faster. It is easier to design an agressive draw force curve on them. Many have draw stops so generally they have a more solid wall. They are thought to be a little noisier than single cams.
> 
> Single cam bows are a tad slower in general, and they are though of as being a bit more quiet. In addition, they are less likely to go out of tune, and when they do the effect on arrow flight is not as significant. The weakest part in the whole setup is the cable yoke (the Y part that attacches to the limb). If one of the arms of the yoke streches more than the other, the idler wheel might lean. In the past single cam bows where seen as being more precise and easier to keep in tune.
> 
> ...




Spot on.:beer:


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## john304 (Aug 8, 2009)

I agree:darkbeer:


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## wicked1Joe (May 19, 2009)

john304 said:


> I agree:darkbeer:


Yep...X3:darkbeer:


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## herd97 (Sep 13, 2005)

Single all the way with a big wheel at the top they just look cooler...


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## Yuma Sentinel (Jun 6, 2009)

*cams 101*

Two cams of olden days were really fast but also harder to Tune. They had a split cable that went to the upper limbs and would go out of time after a lot of shooting. Then came the single cam. One string and one control cable. Hard cam on the bottom and an ideler wheel on top. Very easy to tune and produced fast speeds! Great idea and many companys still use it ie...mathews, martin and diamond. Then came the Cam and a Half. Hoyt and others use it. The Cams are different on both ends and usally still have a cable that splits and attaches to the upper limbs. More speed than a single cam and still easier to time than a dual cam. Fast forward to Bi-nary cams. 
Two cams that are the same top and bottom and are SLAVED to each other. One string and Two cables that are linked together and should always be in time with eachother. Produces lots of speed and a rock solid wall. I myself perfer the binary cams from Bowtech. if i get a little bit of string strech the cams are still in time. Plus when you set up a binary the arrow usally sits level with your rest holes. Single cams like to be abit higher. no biggie.

Each has their benefits and downsides but it really boils down to which feels better for you! Go to your dealer, shoot as many differnt bows as you can. Look at what other guys are shooting and ALWAYS ask questions! Thats whats make Archery so much fun! Good luck and welcome to the world of archery! its a stange addiction but youre going to love it!:darkbeer:


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## backcast88 (Mar 7, 2009)

Just out of curiosity, can binary cam bow get out of timing? And if so how can you tell if they are not timed correctly?


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## Neuralgia (Mar 25, 2008)

With a draw board... and yes, all systems can get out of tune.

I guess we would all use the same brand, if it NEVER needed tuning.


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## jhunt414 (Aug 17, 2007)

Correct and you also need to think about cam lean, and whether the cam shoots straight down the center of the limb, usually binary cams end up leaning and the lean is unadjustable. Cam and a halfs hardly lean and one side is always adjustable. Two cam bows are fully adjustable for cam lean, single cam bows aren't adjustable as much for cam lean, the way the bows without split yokes adjust is by moving he cam off center on the limb. Personally I find Martin's Nitrous cams to be the best as far as cam lean goes because they shoot straight down the center and I can very easily tune the lean with the split yokes. One draw back to some single cams is draw length adjustability and a new cam is needed for different draw lengths in order to ensure level nock travel. Cam and a halfs sometimes do this as well, with binary or two cam bows it is unnecesary. Two cam bows generaly will shoot a bit faster due to simply having two cam shapes on the string. right now the best cams in each category are Hoyt for the hybrid cams, Mathews for single cams and for Binary type cams it would be Elite or bowtech or the monster cams and for two cams it would be marttin's nitrous cams. For the past couple years Martin has been playing with a hybrid binary cam, the CAT, I've got one but I'm really not sure of the advantages over a normal binary cam, both modules are exactly the same but the cam shapes are different with one being cam shaped and the other is, well, round. Some cams have solid draw stops others use the module, some are draw length adjustable others aren't some change modules others adjust by rotating the module. If you like to play with set ups I think Mathews makes a different cam for all of their bows now to ensure level nock travel so you can't really just throw another cam on, with hoyt you can and martin you can as well. Key being pick what suits your needs. I personally like two cam bows for target and for my hunting bow I have com to like the adjustability of a draw stop peg so I can adjust my holding weight down to around 15 pounds. Best way to know what you like is to shoot em'.


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## backcast88 (Mar 7, 2009)

Thanks for explaining all of this to me, but how can you tell if a binary cam is not timed correctly?


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## Buster of Xs (Nov 28, 2008)

backcast88 said:


> Thanks for explaining all of this to me, but how can you tell if a binary cam is not timed correctly?


Most noticeable will be the DL and DW will change. The are visual markers as well, often marks on the cams themselves or holes in the cams that are used in relation to the limbs.


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## backcast88 (Mar 7, 2009)

Buster of Xs said:


> Most noticeable will be the DL and DW will change. The are visual markers as well, often marks on the cams themselves or holes in the cams that are used in relation to the limbs.


Thanks. How often do binary cams loose their timing? Is it fairly common or is it something that doesn't occur to often but I should keep in mind.


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## Buster of Xs (Nov 28, 2008)

backcast88 said:


> Thanks. How often do binary cams loose their timing? Is it fairly common or is it something that doesn't occur to often but I should keep in mind.


That, my friend, is dependant upon the materials and build quality of your string and cables, as it is with ANY cam system today. They are all slaves of the string and cables. Crappy harnessing goes out of whack, and all cam systems only stay timed with good harnessing.


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## StickyString (Oct 3, 2008)

Buster of Xs said:


> That, my friend, is dependant upon the materials and build quality of your string and cables, as it is with ANY cam system today. They are all slaves of the string and cables. Crappy harnessing goes out of whack, and all cam systems only stay timed with good harnessing.


Your right on Buster.It mainly depends on what your willing to pay for a top of the line string and harness system.You can google around for your set up and find guys that have the timing on there binary/hybrid cams down to an art.It's usually just twisting the cables untill you hit the sweet spot so to speek.Just look and ask around on good ol AT for your set up and you will find out I'm sure, I did for my set up!:darkbeer::darkbeer:


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## dmitchell28 (Aug 31, 2006)

I would have to go with single cam bows. It just seems simplier! and sometimes simple is GREAT! I think now days, single cam bows vs Dual cam bows is just a measure of preference! I mean, my parker blackhawk is easily adjusted without a press or anything. My buddy has a browning illusion, and you can adjust everything on the bow without a press, and its easy. The one thing, single cam bows are not going to shoot 350 fps, but speed isnt always everything. I would much rather have a bow that I can draw comfortably around 55-60 lbs, and is as quiet as..well quiet..lol. Good luck


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## ijimmy (Jul 2, 2002)

Matador_0 said:


> Dual or binary cam bows are typically a tad faster. It is easier to design an agressive draw force curve on them. Many have draw stops so generally they have a more solid wall. They are thought to be a little noisier than single cams.
> 
> Single cam bows are a tad slower in general, and they are though of as being a little quieter. In addition, they are less likely to go out of tune, and when they do the effect on arrow flight is not as significant as in 2 cam bows. The weakest part in the whole setup is the cable yoke (the Y part that attacches to the limb). If one of the arms of the yoke streches more than the other, the idler wheel might lean. In the past single cam bows where seen as being more precise and easier to keep in tune.
> 
> ...


 Dead wrong , 

Single cams advantages , the manufacturer only has to make one per bow , the other wheel is round read less expensive

In general they are quieter , though newer dual cam designs are very quiet 

Single cam disadvantages , they go out of tune fast , many ship out of tune from the manufacture , some will never have decent vertical nock travel even if set at their optimal settings , mathews old straightline cams were some of the best , they have not made those for years .

useing moduals on a single cam just does not work


Dual cam advantages , most hybreds are included , stay in time much longer , the string pulls on both cams evenly , 2 cables balence each other

true dual cam bows can be creep tuned to the shooter 

when timed exhibit excellent vertical nock travel

I mean no disrespect to Matador , Like he said , opinions , I just dont like it when someone posts "spot on" in a following quoted post


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## hauntedbyelk (May 3, 2009)

*Single Cam versus dual, binary, cam and a half*

From a users perpective, the key advantage to a single cam is a smoother, easier draw cycle with no big hump as the bow loads up and lets off.


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## Matador_0 (Mar 8, 2007)

ijimmy said:


> Dead wrong ,
> 
> Single cams advantages , the manufacturer only has to make one per bow , the other wheel is round read less expensive
> 
> ...


Don't worry, if I thought that every opinion dissenting from mine was disrespectful, I'd have to challenge my wife to a duel every other day! (I'd choose bow for weapon, she'd choose pistol ).

Single cam bows have a longer string becs. it goes from the cam to the idler and back. The string, being longer, stretches more than that of a two cam bow. Good modern string materials minimize this to the point that it has become a thing of the past when using high quality strings.

When the string stretches, the bow may go up a bit in poundage and the knocking point may move up slightly. So it is good to put a few hundred shots on the string before paper tuning.

However the bow will not go out of timing, because there's only one cam that doesn't have to be synchronized with another one. The only effect on arrow flight might be a slight tear up through paper.

If the string of a two cam bow stretches (which is less likely because it is shorter) then the two cams rotate at different times, and it is impossible to get good arrow flight.

binary cams (a type a dual cam where the cams are tied to one another) supposedly do not suffer from this. But since there is no yoke to adjust, then in the event they might suffer from cam lean, it would be virtually uncorrectable.

So every cam needs a little looking after.


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## Gary73 (Jan 11, 2008)

I prefer single cams, speed is not so much of an issue, Reezen 6.5/7.0, Bear Attack, Bowmadness are all above 330fps IBO and upto 340fps IBO.

My Marquis like for like is as quick as my Admiral. The 82nd is very quick but you pay for that in draw and effort required. I shot the Reezen and liked it but I like a good brace height 7" and above. 

Single cams are very easy to tune and keep in spec also. You'll get lots of different opinions. I no longer look for outright speed, 60lbs 390-440gr arrows shooting 250+fps are fine for me, there quiet, forgiving and silent to use for hunting.

The Bear attack looks intresting, but lets see what the others guys come out with.

Next up would be an Elite if a single cam was not an option.


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## fletched (May 10, 2006)

In todays world, you have 2 cam systems from which to choose. A single cam or a binary cam. These are the 2 most popular cam systems. When single cams first started getting popular, their biggest advantage was that you could have a bow that was comparable in speed to the old two cam bows but have higher let off. This appealed to a lot of people. The old two cam systems were hard to keep in time if the let off was higher than 65%.

With todays newer two cam system, the binary, the cams are slaved together with the cables. This allows the bow to have higher let off without the timing issues.

Mathews did well when it came to advertising. At one time, a single cam was about all you could buy. I was never a single cam guy. I have owned several and never found any advantages. They were just as hard to tune and they require just as much attention as the old two cam bows. 

I am a big fan of the binary cam system. The advantages are there. They have a more balanced shot. The single cam bows have that bottom kick. The binary is a more tunable and has better nock travel. The binary is faster and has more potential for speed.


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## Wil (Aug 13, 2009)

Matador_0 said:


> Dual or binary cam bows are typically a tad faster. It is easier to design an agressive draw force curve on them. Many have draw stops so generally they have a more solid wall. They are thought to be a little noisier than single cams.
> 
> Single cam bows are a tad slower in general, and they are though of as being a little quieter. In addition, they are less likely to go out of tune, and when they do the effect on arrow flight is not as significant as in 2 cam bows. The weakest part in the whole setup is the cable yoke (the Y part that attacches to the limb). If one of the arms of the yoke streches more than the other, the idler wheel might lean. In the past single cam bows where seen as being more precise and easier to keep in tune.
> 
> ...


This is a very well thought out and detailed post. I believe all the info in the post is fairly accurate. I like the way the words "in general" are used, because there are some exceptions to every rule. I believe single cam bows are quieter in general, unless we are talking about one of the bowtech center pivot bows. in which case i believe it is a proven fact that they are just about as quiet of a bow you can buy.


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## stehawk (Aug 28, 2004)

Matador_0 said:


> Don't worry, if I thought that every opinion dissenting from mine was disrespectful, I'd have to challenge my wife to a duel every other day! (I'd choose bow for weapon, she'd choose pistol ).
> 
> Single cam bows have a longer string becs. it goes from the cam to the idler and back. The string, being longer, stretches more than that of a two cam bow. Good modern string materials minimize this to the point that it has become a thing of the past when using high quality strings.
> 
> ...



Very true!:darkbeer: One thing that alot of people don't realize on a single cam bow is that the shooting string is in the exact center of the bow at the top limb (top idler roller) and offset a width of the shooting string on the bottom cam. Its JMHO ----but a single cam will never shoot as well as a well tuned 1 1/2 or two cam system. It saddened me when Martin quit making their Nitrous two cam system. The shooting string was in the exact center both top and bottom on that system. The binary system can't even claim that one.


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

My single cam Diamonds both use a draw stop peg and have hard back walls. Not an issue, IMHO.


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## macexpress (Sep 25, 2009)

All very good information. I think a mention should go out to the Oneida bow types too. No cams only a limb lever system. I don't particularly think they are my cup of tea but they are out there and shouldn't be ignored, especially because IBO speeds have been clocked with them between 300-310. Lets see there is Oneida, Monster, and BTUarchery, I believe. I only mention this because it is another "system" of bow technology.


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## AllenRead (Jan 12, 2004)

backcast88 said:


> Thanks for explaining all of this to me, but how can you tell if a binary cam is not timed correctly?


Visual examination will tell you if it is badly out of time, but the only way to fine tune it is creep tuning. 

Usually if you have good quality, well broken in stings, it's set it and forget it. However, it's easy to check. When I throw an arrow higher or lower than I should, I will recheck, but it's almost always me and not the bow.

Creep tuning can be done to both binary cams and true dual cams. I've heard that the technique can also be used to tune cam orientation with single cam bows but I haven't tried it and don't know anything about the details of doing this.

The best thing to do is to shoot as many bows as you can and pick the one that feels the best for you. Then learn the details of tuning it.

All cam types are far more accurate that any archer, so pick the one that feels best.

My preference is two cam or binary cam bows. You can fine tune the draw length without affecting nock travel. One cam bows usually have a point of cam orientation where the nock travel is near perfect. If your perfect draw length matches this, then you are good. But if you need to adjust the sting length you will change the cam orientation and thus the nock travel.

This is really a very minor point and shouldn't affect your choice of bows in the least. In fact if you shoot good enough for this to make a difference, you wouldn't be asking this question. And no, I don't shoot good enough to notice this difference. I'm just that obsesive compulsive. 

Hope this helps,
Allen


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## macexpress (Sep 25, 2009)

AllenRead said:


> My preference is two cam or binary cam bows. You can fine tune the draw length without affecting nock travel. One cam bows usually have a point of cam orientation where the nock travel is near perfect. If your perfect draw length matches this, then you are good. But if you need to adjust the sting length you will change the cam orientation and thus the nock travel.
> 
> This is really a very minor point and shouldn't affect your choice of bows in the least. In fact if you shoot good enough for this to make a difference, you wouldn't be asking this question. And no, I don't shoot good enough to notice this difference. I'm just that obsesive compulsive.
> 
> ...


Makes Sense


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## Chupacabras (Feb 10, 2006)

Every single cam bow I have owned(Bowtech infinity, Mathews solo, Martin Mpro)had serving separation where the buss cable rolls over the cam. Did not matter what strings I put on the bow(Winners choice,452x etc.) I also spent a lot of time resetting the cams to optimal setting. Never had this problem with binary or dual cams.


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