# ILF Riser Recommendations



## UrbanDeerSlayer (Feb 10, 2012)

Gentleman (and ladies),

I am considering the purchase of a nice ILF riser. Since my re-entry into stickbow a few months ago, I have been shooting the limbs off of a 50# Samick Sage Recurve. Honestly, I am thoroughly impressed with this bow for the money. I like the grip on it, it's fairly quiet, and it shoots and draws real nice. But I'm thinking if I invest in a decent riser, either new or used, then I can buy a variety of limbs if I like, and have the feel and comfort of just one quality riser. And I'm assuming a higher quality riser will equal better shooting. I will used the riser for target shooting and hunting. I don't currently compete, nor do I desire to be a world champion, but you never know, so I may as well get the appropriate riser. So here are my requirements and questions for your comment:

1. I like the grip on my Samick Sage, so I need something with a similar style.
2. Needs to be decent quality product. Do certain risers lend to faster, flatter shooting? 
3. Needs to be able to use a variety of limbs if I choose. Recurve, long bow type, etc....
4. Center cut or more than center cut. I don't want a riser where the center cut is way left of center (I'm right handed). I like to be able to build out the center if necessary.
5. Please enlighten me on the importance of riser length. I see they come in a variety of lengths and I do not know the advantages or disadvantages.

And any other knowledge from all of you is welcome. Your input is golden, as usual.

Thanks.


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## Easykeeper (Jan 2, 2003)

Last time I looked there was a couple of beautiful ILF risers at Morrison Archery on their stock bow page. Scroll down to the bottom and check out the nice ebony and bocote risers...

http://www.morrisonarchery.com/Morrison_stock_bows/stock_index/sILF/silf.html


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## OregonBlacktail (Nov 1, 2011)

Dryad also makes a nice ILF riser


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## sharpbroadhead (Feb 19, 2004)

I would get the Pinnacle ILF Riser by Tradtech, it is made by Samick for Tradtech and is awesome and is only $269.00 - it is 19" so you can create a 64" recurve or longbow with it if you by the long limbs.


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## UrbanDeerSlayer (Feb 10, 2012)

Sharp, I noticed you can get the whole setup with black max wood/glass limbs for $379. Seems like a real good price when alot of custom bows are 2 to 4 times as much $$$.


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## sharpbroadhead (Feb 19, 2004)

very good price and that bow will perform as good or better than the "custom" bows. I know that my Pinnacle Riser and BF Extreme limbs ($848.00 total at the time) - shot better, faster, and quiter than any of my 3 Black Widows - including the one that I paid $1135.00 for - in fact - all my Widows went up on Ebay after i got the Tradtech


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## JINKSTER (Mar 19, 2011)

Okay...i'm gonna be the butthead here and say.."Stay away from everything previously mentioned Above"...why?..

"Grip"

I believe you would be best served by a 23" Excel....as you well know i just got one for a song..and i now undstand why it's gotten so many rave reviews..it's a slim, light but solid ILF riser that you can not only easily swap out various limb weigt/lengths but also?..

"Grips"

Not that the above mentioned bows are bad..they're definantly not..but with the integral grips?...you get what you get and like it or not hafta live with it..where for about 1/2 the cost?..you can swap out grips on the excel in 5 minutes or less..and you being an aspiring trad archer like myself?..that's a key feature you may not want to relinquish..especially on bows you never held before


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## sharpbroadhead (Feb 19, 2004)

when you change how you shoot as much as Jinx - you most certainly need an interchangeable grip - if you are are comitted to one style and form of shooting - you don't need interchangeable grips - most people who have bows with interchangeable grips - buy one grip and it is the only grip they ever use.

If you are first and formost a bowhunter - and if you hunt in cold weather - it will take one late season cold day of hunting for you to decide whether you like a metal riser bow or a wood riser bow - your fingers and hand will tell you - also - if you want to shoot off the shelf with the arrow as close to your hand as possible - that isn't going to happen with an Excell - sure you can build up some ugly butt rest to make it as if you were shooting off the shelf - but by the time you do that the arrow is held nearly has high off your hand as if you used a rest anyhow - so why bother?


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## LongStick64 (Aug 29, 2009)

Jink makes a good point about the grip BUT I have a Morrison 17" Wood/Phenolic ILF riser and I have a Hoyt Horizon ILF riser. 2 very different risers and I use them for 2 different applications. As you can imagine I use the Hoyt for 3D and the Morrison for Hunting but that is not to say that I couldn't use the Morrison for 3D and the Horizon for hunting. Each rig performs as well as the other. I use the same limbs Sebastian Flute Carbon/Wood limbs on each riser and like I said the accuracy/performance is near equal. As far as the grip, sure with the Hoyt I could switch grips but to be fair when I had Bob make my riser he worked with me and made the grip precisely as I wished so the grip reasoning is a moot point to me. Any knowledgeable bowyer that wants your money will work with you if he wants to continue in business these days. If you are going to buy a mass produced riser from a 3rd party dealer, yes Jinks is right there, you will have to live with it. Or if you buy a high quality riser with excellent resale value, you might get your money back or close to it.


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## rembrandt (Jan 17, 2004)

Well, I'm kinda confused here........he likes the grip on the SAGE but the Excel grip, if I remember correctly was more straight up than the Excel. The Excel has a more forward grip and the "V" is into the bow causing the wrist to bend more....quite a bit more than the SAGE, so I'm thinking he is looking for a more upright grip. That being said, if I was him I'd go for the Sebastion Flute riser in 23" or the Pinnacle recommended by Sharp!


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## Tab Bender (Sep 14, 2007)

The grip on the Pinnacle can be adjusted with a belt sander. That riser is not so good looking or cost so much that you would be shy about sanding on it.


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## tichound (Mar 3, 2008)

My vote would be for a tradtech Titan


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## JINKSTER (Mar 19, 2011)

tichound said:


> My vote would be for a tradtech Titan


Now yer talk'in!


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## Eldermike (Mar 24, 2009)

In ILF risers I shoot best with the higher wrist grips found on FITA type rigs. I have one on a Samick Althlete 25 inch riser and there is nothing I own that I will out shoot that riser. First, you can't grip it and you can't change anything about your grip, it's all forced by the design. However I also shoot bows with a hill style grip and that's about as far apart as grips go. I like the ergo grip on my Hoyt excel riser and I would call it about medium when compared to the SamicK riser I own. Grips are a personal decision but there are design considerations in all of them. Flatter wrist is for heavy limbs, higher wrist is for increased accuracy without even a chance of introducing torque to the shot.


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## rembrandt (Jan 17, 2004)

JINKSTER said:


> Now yer talk'in!


What about the cost tho with a Titan? I think that riser is up around $500 smackeroos if I remember correctly.


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## mrjeffro (Jul 25, 2007)

rembrandt said:


> What about the cost tho with a Titan? I think that riser is up around $500 smackeroos if I remember correctly.


Good luck trying to get a Titan. They have been on back order since they came out. When I was looking to upgrade my bow the Titan was on top of my list due to the metal riser and the grip felt real nice on the one I held. It was similar to my compounds. 

I gave up waiting and bought the Pinnacle. Glad I did. Excellent riser with a very comfortable grip.


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## UrbanDeerSlayer (Feb 10, 2012)

Thanks for all the info so far, I am leaning towards the Trad Tech Pinnacle as it seems that it will serve my hunting and target shooting needs. But I don't think anyone answered this question - What is the significance of riser length? I've seen them run from 15 to 25" or so. What factors into deciding what length of riser to choose? Thanks.


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## GEREP (May 6, 2003)

If you like the the way the Sage feels, and you want to stick with wood, I would consider either the Pinncle II as others have mentioned, or the new TradTech Apex.

The grip on either one will likely serve you well. The Pinnacle 19" and the Apex is a 17". I think the Apex is much more "refined" than the Pinnacle II. In my opinion, it has more of a custom look and feel to it.


If you are looking for a metal riser, the throat of the Excel grip is *very* narrow and regardless of what optional grip you use, that isn't going to change much. I suspect it will feel tiny compared to your Sage. The Excel also lacks some of the tuning capabilities and behavior of some of the better metal risers. My daughter shoots an Excel and it a nice riser. I've shot it quite a bit and in my opinion when you get much above 40 lbs, it gets a little "lively." Just not a feel that I particularly enjoy. In my opinion, the Titan is the metal ILF hunting riser that all others are compared to, and for good reason. I've had mine for over six years now and I wouldn't trade it for anything...unless it was a new Titan.

Good luck, and if I can help in any way, let me know.

KPC


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## tichound (Mar 3, 2008)

I found this one on ebay, paid $400.


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## sharpbroadhead (Feb 19, 2004)

The difference in riser length has a very small effect on the performance - a shorter riser allows for more working limb - but also creates a shorter bow - which for most of us is a less forgiving bow.


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## J-san (Oct 12, 2004)

One thing to also keep in mind is the draw weight changes when going to a longer or shorter riser. Many ILF limbs for Olympic recurves are rated at 23 or 25 inch risers. I believe the general rule of thumb is for every inch of riser you increase/decrease, you will change draw weight by about a pound. Shorter risers will increase draw weight and longer risers will decrease. 

I have a Sky Archery TDX 15" riser and with medium length ILF limbs, I have a very nimble 58" recurve. The limbs were rated at 40# on a 25" riser and on the TDX, it gives me a draw of about 51# at 28".


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## UrbanDeerSlayer (Feb 10, 2012)

Should I notice a notable in improvement in shooting performance advancing from the Sage to the Tradtech risers? What things should I immediately notice?


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## UrbanDeerSlayer (Feb 10, 2012)

Also, please excuse my lack of knowlede here, I see there is 10% adjustability with draw weight. So if I purchase a tradtech 19" riser with 40# limbs, 62" total length, for example, then I can adjust that bow to shot from 36 to 44#'s?? Or am I missing something. Does riser length affect the draw weight? Please enlighten me. I'm getting ready to pull the trigger on this one and just want to get all my information correct mentally. Thanks.


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## JINKSTER (Mar 19, 2011)

UrbanDeerSlayer said:


> Should I notice a notable in improvement in shooting performance advancing from the Sage to the Tradtech risers? What things should I immediately notice?


uhm..i'm gonna go with.."what is a thinner wallet?" :laugh: 

oh...this isn't a game show?..sorry UDS..i just hadta toss that out there..cause as many well know..it ain't the bow..but if you're looking for motivational stuff?..i would bet the TT's are weightier hence deader and more vibe free in the hand...and if you go with the apex?..it's seems to have a heavy D-Flex design that screams "Stability" to me..and i bet it does make for a super stable bow..but only 17"s and i can tell ya from recent first hand experience that the 2 extra inches makes a heck of a dif in draw feel..the longer the sweeter...and the only one i'd tend to stay away from is the galaxy...that sucker looks like it's a straight up riser..prolly plenty of speed but short on stability and only 17"s...all i got.


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## JINKSTER (Mar 19, 2011)

UrbanDeerSlayer said:


> Also, please excuse my lack of knowlede here, I see there is 10% adjustability with draw weight. So if I purchase a tradtech 19" riser with 40# limbs, 62" total length, for example, then I can adjust that bow to shot from 36 to 44#'s?? Or am I missing something. Does riser length affect the draw weight? Please enlighten me. I'm getting ready to pull the trigger on this one and just want to get all my information correct mentally. Thanks.


You know the best thing you can do right now?..wait till monday...call LAS and speak with John Wert in the trad dept...tell him what your looking for and he's the man..he'll steer ya right. L8R, Bill. :cool2:


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## J-san (Oct 12, 2004)

Personally, I do not think there will be a huge improvement in performance of the Tradtech risers over the Sage. If you go to a metal Tradtech riser, then that may be a different story. I do feel the heavier metal risers add stability to the bow and reduce handshock and give a more "dead" feeling on the loose, which in my case, improves my shooting.


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## GEREP (May 6, 2003)

UrbanDeerSlayer said:


> Should I notice a notable in improvement in shooting performance advancing from the Sage to the Tradtech risers? What things should I immediately notice?




I guess that all depends on where you are right now, and what you consider "notable." 

A better bow is probably going to be more forgiving, perform better, have better manners, and be of better quality. Having said that, if you think you are going to go from a below average shooter to and above average shooter just by buying a "better" bow, you will probably be sadly mistaken.

The funny thing is, the better you do get, the more likely you will be to notice what a better bow can do for your shooting.

Give your Sage to any of the best shooters and they will eat your (and my) lunch with it.

KPC


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## JINKSTER (Mar 19, 2011)

GEREP said:


> I guess that all depends on where you are right now, and what you consider "notable."
> 
> A better bow is probably going to be more forgiving, perform better, have better manners, and be of better quality. Having said that, if you think you are going to go from a below average shooter to and above average shooter just by buying a "better" bow, you will probably be sadly mistaken.
> 
> ...


that's a fact.


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## Old Sarge (Sep 9, 2008)

First decide on your price range. The difference in price between the Sage, Pinnacle II, and a Morrison, Dryad, or Border is considerable. If money is no object then choose anything you want. However if you are like the rest of us a mid price point riser like a Pinnacle, Apex, or Excel will be fine. The difference in riser length goes from about 15 inches up to 25. Most OLY tpe metal riser bows are built on a 25 inch platform, while most of the hunting specific bows are made with the shorter riser. With a 25 inch riser long limbs produce a 70 inch bow, medium a 68, and shorts a 64. Almost all of the Olympic type limbs are weighted for 25 inch risers. With the hunting risers the limbs are weight for different lengths. The Trad Tech Black Max is a prime example. Just make sure you know what length riser the particular limbs are rated for. Now it gets interesting. For example if the limb is rated for a 25 inch riser the poundage will go up approx 1 lb per inch if you put it on a shorter riser. If you put limbs on a riser that is longer than they are rated for the poundage goes down 1 lb. per inch. Those weights are approx. because all the limbs are different and other factors such as angle of the limb pockets come into play.
Main difference between metal and wood risers: metal is generally heavier which will produce a more dead in the hand feel on the shot. The longer the riser the more stable..on average. There are always exceptions of course. Metal risers are for the most part manufactured to stricter tolerances and less affected by temperature and moisture. Although as Sharp noted. A metal riser in cold weather is not your friend.
If you are just going to use this bow for general archery, 3D, hunting, stumping, and messin around in the back hard I will recommend what Sharp did and tell you to get the Pinnacle II. I have had one of those for awhile and just sold my Excel to Jinx so I have experience with both. IMHO the Excel has a nicer grip but the Pinnacle isn't bad and can easily be modified by sanding, or putting on the tape that is used on tennis rackets. If most of your shooting was going to be for indoor 300 rd type shooting, or NFAA field or FITA stuff I would say the Excel because it can easily be fitted with a plunger, sight, stabilizer etc. which makes it more versatile especially for longer shooting. For hunting and 3D I think the Pinnacle is a better choice. You can shoot it off the shelf or put any of several stick on type rests if you prefer them. Either would be a good choice however and you won't go wrong with either. Of course if you have a lot of cash then all of this changes
If you end up wanting either of these bows call Lancaster and ask to speak to John Wert. Tell him what you are ,looking for and he will set the bow up for you with nocking poins, silencers etc.
Hope this helps.


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## UrbanDeerSlayer (Feb 10, 2012)

GEREP said:


> I guess that all depends on where you are right now, and what you consider "notable."
> 
> A better bow is probably going to be more forgiving, perform better, have better manners, and be of better quality. Having said that, if you think you are going to go from a below average shooter to and above average shooter just by buying a "better" bow, you will probably be sadly mistaken.
> 
> ...


I am certainly not expecting to become an expert with a better bow. I was just wondering what a $300 riser was going to provide for me vs the SAGE. It seems, from all of the responses, with a good riser I will get a bow that is more forgiving, higher quality, faster shooter, some adjustability/tunability, and versatility of limb choices. I'm certain any expert could outshoot me with a homemade PVC bow  I shoot for pleasure, hunting, and soon 3D! In fact going to an informal 3D shoot tomorrow, first time ever! I have the cash but I don't need the "cadillac", just figured I'd get a nice mid cost riser and settle in with it. I have no interest in adding sites, stabilizers etc.... So the wood interests me more than the metal, I don't want cold hands in the winter! ANd I know I'll be out in the snow, because there is no way I'll skip a whole season of shooting!  Thanks so far. But any and all additional input is welcome.


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## gnome (Oct 22, 2006)

Another factor that has not been mentioned yet is your sight window. I have a Sky 15", and the window is pretty small compared to a 21" or 23" riser. Just something else to think about. ( as always...... your mileage may vary......)


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## BLACK WOLF (Aug 26, 2005)

gnome said:


> Another factor that has not been mentioned yet is your sight window. Just something else to think about.


I totally agree. If I go any smaller than a 4 1/2" sight window...targets from 20yrds. and under are covered by the riser unless I cant the bow more than I normally do.

Ray :shade:


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## JimPic (Apr 8, 2003)

Another vote for the Pinnacle II. I picked up a used one a couple months ago and haven't shot anything else since. Real nice grip, dead in the hand and very accurate. She'll definitely be spending quite a few hrs. in the treestand with me this fall. Now time to get some longbow limbs for it


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