# The truth is finally starting to come out



## trapper1 (Nov 9, 2004)

Too bad Ontario has to be involved, it would be nice to think that we have ethics amongst us, but if proven guilty, one jackass spoils it for all
Rick


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## Lookinforlunker (Sep 14, 2007)

This might get interesting


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## CLASSICHUNTER (May 20, 2005)

Did a whole bunch of this thread get erased ?????


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## CLASSICHUNTER (May 20, 2005)

Sorry found the rest with the link.. Like i said not computer savy....lol lol


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## x-hunta (Mar 10, 2010)

trapper1 said:


> Too bad Ontario has to be involved, it would be nice to think that we have ethics amongst us, but if proven guilty, one jackass spoils it for all
> Rick


All it takes unfortunately.


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## shakyshot (Dec 21, 2007)

there is not cure for stupid ignorence


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## Baldini (Mar 7, 2005)

Just to clarify, I'd like to point out that this is NOT Larry Smith from South Nation Archery Supply.


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## Pic (Sep 12, 2003)

Baldini said:


> Just to clarify, I'd like to point out that this is NOT Larry Smith from South Nation Archery Supply.


Oooo, good catch Bruce!! LOL :wink:


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## Baldini (Mar 7, 2005)

Well, someone else was pointing it out elsewhere, I just thought I'd help out.


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## Lookinforlunker (Sep 14, 2007)

No truth just a conspiracy against the poor fellas


"I have been advised by my legal counsel not to comment directly regarding the erroneous charges from the Illinois DNR. Based on the recent national media blitz, it is clear that there is some sort of anti-industry or political agenda coming into play. I am conducting business as usual at Elite Archery while we let the judicial process run its course. I’m not able to make future statements until this situation is resolved."

Garret Armstrong


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## CLASSICHUNTER (May 20, 2005)

any updates or court dates??????


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## peregrine82 (Aug 25, 2007)

The release of this information in the media resulted in a very intense thread on the Elite forum. When 2 pro staffers and the vice president of Elite are collectively charged with 76 offenses in 6 states and 2 provinces it becomes huge news quickly. The thread got pulled when things started to go south. The 2 staffers have left Elite some months ago when the company became aware that this was going to break. Armstrong is the VP of Elite and in all probability is an owner in the company. His statement is to be expected and was probably drafted by his lawyer(s). Any rational person is going to look at 76 charges in 6 states and 2 provinces over 10 years as having some substance. There has been much talk about this trio eventually being found innocent of these charges. For the record no one is ever found innocent. They are found not guilty which means the State, Province, has failed to prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt.


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## usernametaken (Nov 19, 2010)

It seems that there's an intimidating amount of resources that have been dedicated to this investigation, and the probable outcome will not likely be a trial in front of peers, but a negotiated plea bargain that will have numerous charges dropped and the alleged perpetrators will be branded without a proper trial and cross examination of evidence. Therefore, the media will have the best hand in convicting all parties involved, using twisted and contorted details that are not cross examined. Nonetheless, I have to think fairly strongly that some of the numerous charges are solid and do have merit. It's a shame that some industry peers are involved, as it puts a blemish on the concept of hunters co-operating with conservation departments to manage resources.


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## CLASSICHUNTER (May 20, 2005)

accused has right to trial and can request so if they want to clear their name.. by judge or by judge and jury..... plea bargaining means you know you are guilty but would like a lessor sentence.... just like signing a parking ticket and sending lessor amount of money in .... your guilty... in this case if My name was at stake and I was INNOCENT then I`d fight it .. but again we we not there these guys know if they did wrong .....


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## coptor doctor (Aug 25, 2003)

*interesting*

To me it's like getting 76 impaired charges. They are guilty of some of these for sure.

Maybe a simple tresspassing but they are still guilty of something.
The DNR must have some pretty good info to issue this many charges.
I hear Rumor Mr Smith is travelling to Illinois as we speak. I bet it's not to hunt..ukey:


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## Baldini (Mar 7, 2005)

Carl, since you're in this line more than hunting right now.... Been charged with any building code violations yet?

LOL


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## usernametaken (Nov 19, 2010)

Yes, they have a right to a trial, but the media is not going to print full front page articles announcing that they were found innocent. These guys have jobs or businesses, and aren't likely to qualify for any legal aid subsidy. So clearing their name just for the principle of it is going to cost them tens of thousands of dollars in legal fees - and given the numerous charges that may be a very conservative estimate. If they loose at trial, it still costs the same in legal fees... and then they have to face sentencing - another cost of either jail, fines, or both. The media has already done it's dirty work, and public opinion is that they may not be guilty of all the charges, but are likely guilty of something. If they plea bargain to a couple of charges, just to have the rest dropped and pay a reasonable fine, and agree to certain conditions then the whole thing is likely to blow over quickly, and the media doesn't have much of an opportunity to do any more damage. To me it seems the high cost of principle is not worth it.


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## CLASSICHUNTER (May 20, 2005)

username taken c you joined at today could you fill out your bio most of us like to see and get to know the people who we are talking too...


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## Sinister01 (Apr 20, 2009)

CLASSICHUNTER said:


> username taken c you joined at today could you fill out your bio most of us like to see and get to know the people who we are talking too...


looks to me like he joined in NOV of 2010.... that would be a year ago.... wouldn't it


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## Btension (Jun 28, 2011)

Shot with Larry Smith years ago, he was (is) a good guy, too bad he got caught up in this "Buck Fever". We will never get you people into hunting if it's only about the biggest buck. Its about the experience, friends. This should be a wake up call for all those Big Buck hunters out there. Remember to play by the rules the people coming up behind us look to us all as examples!! Shoot straight Guys!!!


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## CLASSICHUNTER (May 20, 2005)

yes I stand corrected a year ago still no info .. I thought our mediator Pierre requested bio info though ....


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## usernametaken (Nov 19, 2010)

I did have some bio info in my profile - although it was bare bones. I think that using the tapatalk app might have cleared out what little bio info I did share as I kinda remember some trouble getting started with the tapatalk app - and I think I had to reset my account??? I'm not using the classifieds section to buy or sell, and so I'm not sold on the idea of divulging too much personal info. 
I have a bow, and a few arrows. It's not fancy, and I haven't pimped it out. I shoot it at stuff that doesn't shoot back. I keep it in the closet in the spare room. No, you can't borrow it... Good enough?


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## CLASSICHUNTER (May 20, 2005)

username.. what you don`t have a first and last name and city.. if you have a land line phone you might want to destroy all the phone books...didn`t ask for your bank acc # and pin number???? lol lol


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## usernametaken (Nov 19, 2010)

I simply don't want to fill out the bio information. I would prefer to remain as anonymous as possible. Ok, I was playing coy to try to avoid the tinfoil hat conversation. 
Now


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## coptor doctor (Aug 25, 2003)

Sorry Bruce no building violations.. Just 4 broken ribs


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## CLASSICHUNTER (May 20, 2005)

ok carl fill us in .... off ladder and no sh-t pile to land in .. take care...


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## coptor doctor (Aug 25, 2003)

Just a slip walking in the bush Rock gave way ended up falling on a couple sharp ones in the wrong spot.. another week should be good to go..


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## Baldini (Mar 7, 2005)

Ouch! Sounds painfull. You must have been sober, I've seen you do a lot worse and come through scratch free otherwise...


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## Pierre Couture (Oct 28, 2004)

CLASSICHUNTER said:


> yes I stand corrected a year ago still no info .. I thought our mediator Pierre requested bio info though ....


For classifieds, I do, but even when I look daily at the classifieds threads, some posts may elude me...


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## CLASSICHUNTER (May 20, 2005)

no problem pierre just nice to know who`s out there....


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## usernametaken (Nov 19, 2010)

To me what seems to be missing from everyone's consideration in this topic is, how did these guys get caught for trespassing months and years after the fact?

Digital camera's.... specifically the ones on smart cell phones have the ability to embed in the picture gps, time and date data with the picture image data. Law enforcement officials are able to decipher this code and if the picture is of you beside a dead deer with no tag and you happen to not have permission to hunt in that location - and you're vain enough to post this picture all over the web... Well you can expect that at some point law enforcement officials will stumble upon your picture on the Internet - or even perhaps on some hunter or archery forum, since it's the easiest place for them to look for that kind of stuff. Gone are the days when the authorities had to leave the office and actually hunt for poachers the good old fashioned way - in our post 9/11 world law enforcement has honed and refined it's ability to seek out criminal activity on the web in any form. I expect that even this forum is being scrutinized by law enforcement officials, looking for evidence of criminal activity.


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## Macmathews (Jul 24, 2007)

I think you are reading into this WAY to far.
They have been caught for numerous reason's by the sounds of it.
This has been an ongoing investigation for quite some time..
Not saying your argument is impossible , I just don't see officials using the tools spoken of without cause !

Kyle




usernametaken said:


> To me what seems to be missing from everyone's consideration in this topic is, how did these guys get caught for trespassing months and years after the fact?
> 
> Digital camera's.... specifically the ones on smart cell phones have the ability to embed in the picture gps, time and date data with the picture image data. Law enforcement officials are able to decipher this code and if the picture is of you beside a dead deer with no tag and you happen to not have permission to hunt in that location - and you're vain enough to post this picture all over the web... Well you can expect that at some point law enforcement officials will stumble upon your picture on the Internet - or even perhaps on some hunter or archery forum, since it's the easiest place for them to look for that kind of stuff. Gone are the days when the authorities had to leave the office and actually hunt for poachers the good old fashioned way - in our post 9/11 world law enforcement has honed and refined it's ability to seek out criminal activity on the web in any form. I expect that even this forum is being scrutinized by law enforcement officials, looking for evidence of criminal activity.


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## usernametaken (Nov 19, 2010)

Unfortunately as part of the post 9/11 US anti-terror campaign, just cause has been waived, and it's now known as just because... I'm not a legal expert, but I believe that once you upload a picture onto a public website, the picture itself becomes public domain and is not subject to protection by any rights under law. Kinda the same thing as searching a waste bin in a public park - the contents are not protected by any owner's rights because it's considered public trash and nobody owns it.


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## coptor doctor (Aug 25, 2003)

Heard a rumor third hand. Mr Smith is probably going to get off with maybe as little as a $75 trespassing fine..


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## CLASSICHUNTER (May 20, 2005)

would this effect any of his monster whitetail wins .. who signed his affidavits for the entries ...just a thought.?????


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