# Draw Length Experiment



## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Waiting for the rain to stop and hopefully the sun would come out I had time to experiment with draw length. 

For me it seems the longer that ata the shorter draw length I want, not much, but it's there. And then I switched to different release and felt the draw length just on the long side, but livable so long as I checked myself. Some issues arising, I wanted to shorten the draw length. Amazing was the draw length not all that far off.

I began with a measure 28.5" draw length (no counting d-loop). The timing tabs on a Pearson bow are right out in the open. I checked before I began and was dead on 28.5" by the surveyor's steel tape measure, 1/8" increments. By looking the timing tabs just touch the cables. Wanting to keep the 28.5" draw length I used stick-on foam and applied to the point the draw stops touch the limbs. Really compressed the foam flattens to .020". Compression was done with dial calipers and using the more knife like edge of the jaws, so say super compressed.

Shooting was kept to 20 yards.....

Checking measured draw length gave of no change. The timing tabs to cables barely changed and not enough for a .002" feeler gauge without the gauge dragging some.
Actually drawing the bow gave a good difference. I felt/thought the draw length was shortened a good 1/8". I shot the bow 5 or 6 times and I definitely could feel a difference in draw length. And amazingly the barely shortened draw length felt good. I tried shooting with the Jet Black and the draw length still felt good and my shots same straight on as before.

I had to try again. I doubled the foam and checked again by compression and had .040". Timing tabs to cables gapped .015" and the gauge dragging some. Still measured draw length didn't move, not 1/8" anyway.
Actually drawing gave a tremendous difference. I actually started feeling the draw length something of short. Again, I saw no change in impact results. 

For what I found I now wonder when some one says their draw length is 1/4" to 1/2" too long. And I'm also believing some can feel their draw length off by .040".... 

Difference between the Stanislawski Shootoff (thumb release) I had been using and the Stan Jet Black hinge I've been using lately.
The Shootoff has the ErgoFit grip and hard to match up to the Jet Black, but index and ring finger grooves were matched.


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## bigHUN (Feb 5, 2006)

Not on short distances but on long range
I can see a DL difference (out of optimal) in the scope picture
My 9" sight extension is out @ 7" and I use mostly x6 and sometimes x8 lenses
A little as 1mm (0.040") longer DL shows immediately, I can still leave with a shorter DL
So I set my bow DL "optimal" with a) locking down my shoulder muscle; and b) slightly benting my bow arm; and c) cable stops only and removed the limb stops....all these make a little give whenever switching between FITA and Field with a same bow.
I decided long ago and having couple releases from same brand and model set them different timing, hot and slow


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## RCR_III (Mar 19, 2011)

I can definitely see and feel differences in draw length. I micro tune it down with the limb bolts to get it exactly with what works best for me. Small 1/4 turns or less on the bolts.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

I shot more yesterday and it really amazed me that I could feel that .020" difference each time. Definitely 3 layers of .020" foam was short, but livable. Also, the bow has custom draw modules, ground to give exactly 28.5" of draw. Made from 28.0" modules the difference of roll over gives 88% letoff and normally this is 85%. Initially the let off was about 6 pounds and I set the stops to give 7.5 pounds. And I messed up, forgot to check let off with .020", .040" and .060" shim foam. And I didn't really notice anything different....

A measuring tape or stick with 1/16" (even 1/32") increments would be nice and will get one.


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## aeasley10 (Oct 24, 2013)

RCR_III said:


> I can definitely see and feel differences in draw length. I micro tune it down with the limb bolts to get it exactly with what works best for me. Small 1/4 turns or less on the bolts.


How do the limb bolts affect DL? 
I am dealing with DL issues right now as I'm setting up my bow. 


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## RCR_III (Mar 19, 2011)

aeasley10 said:


> How do the limb bolts affect DL?
> I am dealing with DL issues right now as I'm setting up my bow.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It'll only work in small amounts, but if you back the limb bolts off you'll lengthen draw length. If you put turns into them (if you're not bottomed out) then you can shorten draw length. 

I normally start at least one turn out on limb bolts when I set the bow up so I have room to work in both directions. This lets me set my peep how I want then fine tune draw length without affecting peep rotation.


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## aeasley10 (Oct 24, 2013)

RCR_III said:


> It'll only work in small amounts, but if you back the limb bolts off you'll lengthen draw length. If you put turns into them (if you're not bottomed out) then you can shorten draw length.
> 
> I normally start at least one turn out on limb bolts when I set the bow up so I have room to work in both directions. This lets me set my peep how I want then fine tune draw length without affecting peep rotation.


Gotcha, good info. Thanks


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## bigHUN (Feb 5, 2006)

I don't like to touch my limb bolts but this could be my mental attitude is more is specific and you may not get the same results...
I have a four cable bow (shoot through system) and these german OK limbs are very sensitive, I don't use a normal bow "kick stand" not to damage the thin limbs by mistake.
Easier for me to twist up or down the cable for half a twist then touch the limb bolt. I've tried to test my hex key skills but doesn't show anything below at least two full turns on bolts, all held by cables.
And most important, whenever I have a need to do that (switching from cold to warm environment) I will do the creep tune, not short distance because can't really read the signs but long range where shows any "out of tune" more clearly


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

It is early in the indoor season and for some reason I just don't feel right so I decided to just let the next couple weeks be a draw week session. I started twisting my string and dropped it from 29 3/16 down to 28 7/8. It took a bunch of twists to get there and now my cables aren't within the timing marks at all and in fact they are almost a 1/8 inch outside of them. I wanted to be on the short side and then work my way back somewhere between the two points. I only got to shoot for about 15 to 20 minutes with it in the shorter setting but it did feel really nice. I have my bow in the 29 mod setting and I am not sure why it was so long and took so much twisting to get there. Other than I have to twist the cables quite a bit to get the poundage up to 62 normally and that squats down the ata some. 

tonight I am going to shoot a bit and then I am planning on putting the bow in the 28.5 setting and untwisting the string to get to the 28 7/8 setting and see if the cams are where they should be.


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

As my shoulder has gotten better/stronger I've had to go longer and longer on my DL. I've gone from a 27 3/4" with a 1.125" ID loop to a 28 3/8" with a 1.200" ID loop. The result has been much better alignment. With this better alignment I've been in experimental mode trying different things. I've been able to do this due to a better feel of the shot process. Prior to making this change anything I did felt and responded about the same. This week I discovered something about shoulder position that I hadn't really understood until now. Because I now can actually relax the bow side of my shot I'm able to pull into the shoulder in a way that has eluded me. If I'm honest with myself, bone to bone alignment has never been something I've truly felt or understood. 

When I started shooting I was a push and pull shooter. I stopped the push a few years in... or at least I thought I did. It seems that my shoulder has never really got the hang of this and the result was a floating shoulder joint that never really settled in. Now that I'm able to actually feel the difference I seem to be much steadier and my pull doesn't get dragged off center as much. I need to make this second nature as I still find myself in shoulder limbo at times but I really think this is the real deal. Of course I'll know better after the new car smell has worn off.


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

Another problem with the floating shoulder issue is that it requires a lot of shoulder muscle to hold on center and success is very erratic at best. No matter how hard one tries to relax it is impossible. I don't remember anywhere where I've read about this. All we seem to hear is get the shoulders down, but no one seems to provide a follow up instruction as to what comes next... or at least in a manner that I have been able to grasp. It would seem that those that have provided these instructions with regard to shoulder position take for granted that these things that follow should be second nature. Kind of like trying to teach a foreign language to someone by speaking it to them.


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

SonnyThomas said:


> Waiting for the rain to stop and hopefully the sun would come out I had time to experiment with draw length.
> 
> For me it seems the longer that ata the shorter draw length I want, not much, but it's there. And then I switched to different release and felt the draw length just on the long side, but livable so long as I checked myself. Some issues arising, I wanted to shorten the draw length. Amazing was the draw length not all that far off.
> 
> ...


I think there may be some confusion with regard to DL and loop length. They are both different and both can impact the feel of the overall system independently. DL impacts the angle of the shoulder in relation to the bow hand. The longer the DL the farther out the bow arm swings outward. The loop has more of an impact on anchor point in relation to the face. For me each has a different impact and both have to be right. I'm not sure what the overall measurement of DL and loop length is called but I do know that this overall measurement can remain the same but have a different feel depending on how the combination of the two components are set up. Shorten the DL while increasing the loop will have a different feel than a lengthened DL combined with a shorter loop producing the same overall length.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Me; Bow draw length plus d-loop length equal overall draw length. I have felt a difference and it took a couple of days to really notice it. I also have had some arrow rest issues. Three times now I have had the launch arm fully raise. Once on my older Limb Driver and twice on my newest Limb Driver, the Pro. These two times was the spring tension or something was hanging up. Pulled it apart just enough to make sure no dirt or grime was present and oiled it with fine light oil until oil dripped out of the opposite side. Whatever it was it no longer is present, but thinking of getting another rest. And I also had the draw cord sticky patch slip. Of note; The Vapor Trail draw cord clamp isn't quite wide enough to catch on the split limbs of the MX3. While getting this straightened out I changed from the Gibbs d-loop material back to BCY #24 (what I had on-hand). D-loop is a bit longer and bow draw length was shortened a bit. Still no finer measuring scale to actual change, but the draw stops are set .026" quicker to hit. All feels kind of good, but maybe the d-loop needs stretched a bit.
I'll actual bow draw length and draw length with d-loop. Something I should have done before so what I find won't tell much. I'll also check actual draw weight and let off.
Kind of trying days of late as I trying to go full time with a hinge....I've only used my thumb release to prove if the bow was off or I was off and again to check center shot. Last check this evening was in the garage with a bare shaft arrow. Didn't shoot through paper, but the arrow was super straight in the target bag and this made me feel kind of good...


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## duc (Jul 18, 2009)

aeasley10 said:


> How do the limb bolts affect DL?
> I am dealing with DL issues right now as I'm setting up my bow.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You are, by bringing the limb tip closer together, changing the cam timing. Effectively making the string LONGER.


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

duc said:


> You are, by bringing the limb tip closer together, changing the cam timing. Effectively making the string LONGER.


Yes the limb tips are closer but you are also increasing the brace height. I think you will find a proportionate increase in DL to the increase in brace height.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

^^^ Agree


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

The limb bolt adjustment is only good if you have enough draw weight to play with. My MX3 is maxed at 50 pounds and a bit short of the fps I'd like to have, but livable as I did well this past 3D season.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

Went to my buddies house saturday and spent two of the weirdest hours ever working on my bow to get a certain draw length, in the end we finally got there and went to his indoor range to do some shooting and within 15 minutes it was over. 

My Bow string simply was POSSESSED and strands failed and I was left standing there with my best buddy wondering what in the world happened. 

The few minutes I did get to shoot with the draw length that I got the bow to did feel really nice and I was shooting good with it. I had just got the arrows over to the baby x on the vegas target when the string failed.


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## Holo (Feb 12, 2004)

Reading some good information here!!

I have been working on my "bone to bone" alignment for a long time now. 
As EPLC mentioned I also heard the comment "get the shoulders down" but no one could tell me what to do to fix it.
I also struggled with the back half alignment as well. After experimenting with the bow DL and loop length I am now pleased that my age is not what’s been catching up with me!!!
When it seems you are close to the “right fit” its amazing how I can feel just 1/16” or less variance.


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## RCR_III (Mar 19, 2011)

EPLC said:


> Another problem with the floating shoulder issue is that it requires a lot of shoulder muscle to hold on center and success is very erratic at best. No matter how hard one tries to relax it is impossible. I don't remember anywhere where I've read about this. All we seem to hear is get the shoulders down, but no one seems to provide a follow up instruction as to what comes next... or at least in a manner that I have been able to grasp. It would seem that those that have provided these instructions with regard to shoulder position take for granted that these things that follow should be second nature. Kind of like trying to teach a foreign language to someone by speaking it to them.


I've talked about this in videos and instructions for a while now. You're completely correct in the floating shoulder issues and where most don't talk about this.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

When it comes to front shoulder I recommend putting down your bow and walking over to a door jam and just getting into your stance and reaching out to the door jam, from there you can learn a ton about your shoulder.

Stand where you can barely touch and do two things, first lean into the wall and allow the shoulder to sink back into your frame. Then push forward with your arm and allow it to lengthen as much as possible.

There are lots of things that you are going to notice and obviously the one you are looking form up front is the shoulder dropping down a bunch as you allow it to come back into your frame but the other things are much more subtle and you may miss them if you aren't looking. Notice your muscle tensions in the deltoids and the tricep and the forearm muscles as you try and push the arm forward, they totally go crazy and tense up as you push forward and the do it from the moment that you start to extend the arm forward. Even as the shoulder is still pretty low they will tense up. Notice the inches of difference the front shouder can have. Notice how the deltiods just bulge out and raise the shoulder.

Now to me this is where so many people get in trouble is because they have some preset draw length on the bow and they don't really have a press or access to one so they end up trying to fit their body to the specific draw length that they have on the bow. So even though they are trying to have a low shoulder and proper front arm angle etc the draw length setting that they are working with forces them so suffer.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

At the very least what you will learn is that there is a huge amount of length that your front arm and shoulder can give to the system.

Now, 

The difference between a decent shooter and a strong shooter is when you learn the lesson that the moment that you leave the bottomed out setting you have totally activated all of your muscles in the shoulder and arm and forearm and from that point forward you have all those negative effects added to the system. Of course the farther a guy extends his shouder and arm things get worse.

What is cool,

When you learn to allow the front arm and shoulder to come back into the body and bottom out to give you that bone to bone contact setup, then when you come to full draw and anchor up you can apply the back tension preload to the system and you are doing it to a very repeatable foundation. Then as you apply that preload the front arm isn't fighting the preload with extra muscle tension. The front arm and shoulder are bottomed out and solid so as you add the preload there isn't that huge front arm and forearm and shoulder tension increase. In fact there doesn't have to be any noticable increase.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

I have left my normal range this weekend, I have played around in a range from 29 1/8 to 29 3/8 for a good amount of time and shot just fine but last winter I did the other direction and went to the next length of around 29 1/2 and tried that area but this year I am going to go on the other side. I am setting it up at 28 7/8 as a starting point and I am going to try a little on each side of that number. 

This weekend I set my bow to the 28 7/8 setting and got to shoot it for about 15 minutes before it ate the bow string around the peep and it felt nice but I just didn't have enough time to do some real shooting. 

I'm going to go over to the door jam in my classroom and go through the front arm and shoulder stuff just to feel it, this is a great time to "BREAK THE ELBOW". What I mean is that I am going to lock out my front elbow when doing it and then just barely break it from the locked position, the feeling you get is really cool when you feel the forearm muscles nice and tight with tension and then when you break the elbow it just leaves.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

I just stood up and spent a few minutes doing it and holy crap it is a must do, the key is not having a bow in your hand so you don't have all of your shot execution screwing up the things you need to feel. 

I already mentioned some of the stuff above so I am going to try and only mention the other stuff that I forgot to mention.

1. at any point push forward with the top of your hand as it sits on the door jam and press into the door jam with a high grip and you are going to feel a tremendous amount of forearm tension erupt and my forearm just muscles up. Bad Bad Bad stuff you need to feel.

2. This one is really important, lock your elbow out and be standing just far enough away that you can lean on the wall and use a high grip pressure and imagine you had to do this for two hours. Then slightly break the elbow and use a low grip and do the same thing imagining you had to stay right there for two hours. It won't take you long to see the value of a slightly broken elbow and a setup of the front shoulder where it is bone to bone all the way back into your body with that low grip.

3. The Trap muscle, I had forgotten about this one and if at any time you start to do weird stuff where the arm tries to extend or the shoulder wants to raise up or compress in a upward direction the trap muscle activates and it is a horrible sensation when it comes to shooting feel. That dang muscle should be non existant.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

SonnyThomas said:


> I'll (measure) actual bow draw length and draw length with d-loop. Something I should have done before so what I find won't tell much. I'll also check actual draw weight and let off.


Draw weight remains the same 50#. Let off is still right at 7 pounds, so no difference. These are custom cams made from 28" draw modules and getting let off higher might take some string twisting that I don't want to get into at this moment.
Draw length with draw stops set .026" quicker to hit is now 28 3/8". So 1/8" less.
The difference between the Gibbs and BCY #24 is quite a bit material wise and I stretched the BCY pretty good today. With the Stan Jet Black a bit longer (see picture above) I had shortened the Gibbs d-loop to 1/2", barely enough for a good hook up without knocking the arrow off the string. The BCY d-loop and another 5/8" to the bow's draw length, so 29" and what I've used for years whether shooting off the string or using a d-loop.
Basically, I have the same overall draw length, just move a bit from the draw and moved it to the d-loop. 
Last practice session overall draw length felt better...I had some left hits that is me forgetting to get my thumb off the pulling post. Ten years of using my thumb with a thumb release is one heck of habit to get over.


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## Macdoc18 (Dec 28, 2012)

EPLC said:


> I think there may be some confusion with regard to DL and loop length. They are both different and both can impact the feel of the overall system independently. DL impacts the angle of the shoulder in relation to the bow hand. The longer the DL the farther out the bow arm swings outward. The loop has more of an impact on anchor point in relation to the face. For me each has a different impact and both have to be right. I'm not sure what the overall measurement of DL and loop length is called but I do know that this overall measurement can remain the same but have a different feel depending on how the combination of the two components are set up. Shorten the DL while increasing the loop will have a different feel than a lengthened DL combined with a shorter loop producing the same overall length.


To me it seems to make more sense to thinkof the Draw L affecting the string contact with the lip, nose and peep position AND the d loop affecting the hand, release and shoulder positions as well as the forearm alignment. We may be saying the same thing , but correcting a problem seems easier to me this way.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Really didn't want to get into the deep end of draw length, just totally amazed at how little made a big difference.


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## flinchmatic (Mar 12, 2004)

I'm with macdoc 100%... saying the same thing just a different way. his way of simplifying it mirrors my thoughts. I shoot with a buddy at the club and he has been playing with his draw length and bent and straighter bowarm and cannot get his string to the tip of his nose and the string at the corner of his mouth... string is on the side of his nose and way past his mouth on his cheek..he will not let me put a longer loop on so he can have the same anchor and move his string closer to his bow.


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## Bob's My Uncle (Jan 9, 2012)

EPLC or RCR - could you give some advice on the big discovery on bow shoulder position please? I've very rarely really felt I've got that absolutely nailed.


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## RCR_III (Mar 19, 2011)

Bob's My Uncle said:


> EPLC or RCR - could you give some advice on the big discovery on bow shoulder position please? I've very rarely really felt I've got that absolutely nailed.


Off topic, Bob's my father's name so if he's your uncle.... haha 

It's over complicated for the most part. You want to find your natural shoulder positioning, you can do this by holding up your arms to your sides to make a, "T". (Without the bow) This is the starting point to adjust your bow to. To where you can draw the bow back, maintaining a vertical head and arm out with the natural low and out shoulder. 

Once you get this position you want to study your float to find the micro adjustment point. You can do this by adjusting the limb bolts in and out. For now, start with the limb bolts out one turn during the start of the experiment. That will give you your working room. (Once you find the perfect length you can adjust for poundage and draw length to all be how you want/need them) 

Focus on correct shoulder positioning each time and start adjusting the limb bolts out in 1/4 turns. Each one evenly. See if your float gets better. If it does, keep going. If it does not, go back to even and then put 1/4 turn into them (tightening them) and see how things become that way. 

Once you've found your best float start shooting games and tracking point of impacts and take note of how things feel throughout the session. (I use ArcherZUpshot to track games) If you go too long, you'll start feeling the arm weakening at the shoulder and in the back muscles on the bow side. You'll start to struggle to hold the bow up during your shot and have low misses. 

If you've gone too short, you'll notice erratic misses during the game where you felt you could over power the bow and move it too much with bow arm movements/corrections. 

The loop needs to be adjusted the same way to find its correct length. 

Here's a video I did on my YouTube channel to help illustrate what I went over. It has a little more information in it to help steadiness as well. 

https://youtu.be/F9lB2yeMbAE


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

What I have discovered is what needs to happen once you find that proper shoulder position that everyone talks about. It involves relaxing the bow side starting with the hand. At full draw I exert pressure to pull the bow into the shoulder socket. I can feel it when it's right. That same pressure steadys the hold and fires the shot. 

The key is relaxation. If I am not relaxed enough it won't settle in and my shoulder tenses up. I found it was easier to work on this shooting at a blank bale.


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## 2little2late (Dec 25, 2006)

Are we over thinking this? Not to be skeptical, but I cannot notice any difference in a half turn in the string adjustment for draw length either in feel or results as many seem to claim. Can anyone for sure? The reason I say this is hand swelling alone during a day can change your effective DL more than that. Am I that lousy of a shot?


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## erdman41 (May 6, 2009)

2little2late said:


> Are we over thinking this? Not to be skeptical, but I cannot notice any difference in a half turn in the string adjustment for draw length either in feel or results as many seem to claim. Can anyone for sure? The reason I say this is hand swelling alone during a day can change your effective DL more than that. Am I that lousy of a shot?


I'm with ya!!

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

2little2late said:


> Are we over thinking this? Not to be skeptical, but I cannot notice any difference in a half turn in the string adjustment for draw length either in feel or results as many seem to claim. Can anyone for sure? The reason I say this is hand swelling alone during a day can change your effective DL more than that. Am I that lousy of a shot?


I didn't see where anyone noted a half turn in the string. bigHun noted a half twist of his cables. I forget what bow he has, but two cables anyway. By one of my string makers 1 twist of each cable is equal to 4 twists of the bow string. So 1/2 twist of each cable would be 2 twists of the bow string. 

When I began my experiment I remember one person stating he could feel .040" difference of his desired draw length and I found that hard to believe, but I believe now....Like I noted I was a bit stunned with so little making a big difference in felt draw length. With what I found I had to re-think of the times I shortened my d-loop by just a melted ball length of one end to correct the draw length. If a melted ball length is that of 1/8" the actual length removed from the over d-loop is only 1/16" and 1/16" is .0625". 

Since I started this thread I've shot my bow enough that the new d-loop has stretched just a bit. I can feel it. I'm going to leave the d-loop alone and shorten the draw with the draw stops. This should give a more holding weight and still not be overbearing pulling into a solid wall.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Moved draw stops .019" and feels real good.... Still haven't acquired a scale with more graduations.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

One thing to keep in mind is it isn't always something you have to feel, It can be a performance thing. When you are shooting scoring rounds and you shorten your draw length and you instantly go from shooting lets say 300 19x type vegas rounds to 300 25 x vegas rounds you may not feel anything but you see it in the scoring.


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

Padgett said:


> One thing to keep in mind is it isn't always something you have to feel, It can be a performance thing. When you are shooting scoring rounds and you shorten your draw length and you instantly go from shooting lets say 300 19x type vegas rounds to 300 25 x vegas rounds you may not feel anything but you see it in the scoring.


100% agreed. Many variables come into play once you've found a good baseline which can require tweaking. Grip angle is just one that causes impact. Another would be wall hardness. There are many.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Feeling good is a relative thing for me. What I have is modified modules. They are actually 28" mods ground to give 28 1/2". Now, because they are made from 28" mods the only thing I can do is shorten the draw and this does nothing to let off. I tried different settings of the draw stops and let off remained at approximately 7 pounds. What I did have was the bow wanting to take off if I eased up a hair. Double checked this. What I had to do was realize I was working with modified modules. I adjusted the stops to give the best draw length and the bow not taking off. This proved nice, but then I had to raise the peep just a tad.
Again, I'm trying to stay with a hinge and having sporadic runs of decent and rotten. Changing my bow sure isn't helping.

Today, I realized I was lowering my head a bit or just plain slouching. I raised the peep and this seemed to make me stand up and improved things. Shortening the draw made the peep lower? I don't know. 

Just in from practicing and feel pretty good about the session.


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## nochance (Nov 27, 2008)

Padgett said:


> One thing to keep in mind is it isn't always something you have to feel, It can be a performance thing. When you are shooting scoring rounds and you shorten your draw length and you instantly go from shooting lets say 300 19x type vegas rounds to 300 25 x vegas rounds you may not feel anything but you see it in the scoring.


and in the float as well


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