# Follow through with back tension release



## Rick!

I'm in the process of overhauling my form and shooting process after a rather embarrassing performance at state. I'm starting to blank bale shoot with a hinge style release with a clicker after a few weeks of draw rope practice and noticed something odd last night. With my old form and release, it was easy to hold my sight picture during the follow through and watch the arrow hit the target. Now, if I expand "hard" after the click, I get a left movement of the bow immediately after release and am unable to watch arrow flight. If I cheat on the release and relax my release index finger and use less expansion (reaching forward with bow hand and pulling into thewall and back muscle scrunching) I can minimize the left lateral follow through. I haven't spent a lot of time yet figuring this out so I'm asking the experts if this is a byproduct of back tension or am I creating a fundamental flaw? (RH shooter, PSE BM XL, no sights) Thanks in advance for any help.


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## mike 66

im guessing without a pic.. thats its the surprise SHOCK your mind is getting when the shot breaks . buy the time you see it the arrow is gone. it should get better after time...


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## aread

For a right handed archer, it's difficult to keep the bow from moving left on the explosion unless you are anticipating the shot. And as you know, any anticipation of the explosion is a bad thing. To keep your pin on the X you have to relax you bow arm at the exact moment of the shot. This can lead to flinching under pressure. 

If you are getting a surprise release, the movement won't affect your accuracy. As Mike posted, the arrow is long gone before the bow moves. 

Too many archers think that good follow through means that they must try to hold their pin on the target after the shot. This leads to poor technique. The better way to do it is to let the shot explode and follow through to a consistent conclusion.

The great long bow archer, Howard Hill said that "on release, with both hands do nothing". That doesn't mean to hold them still, it means to continue with the forces that existed at the moment of explosion.

Hope this helps,
Allen


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## Chase Hatcher

Bernie Pellerite talks about because of the back tension it will create its own follow through.


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## Rick!

*here's a few vids of some blank bale practice*

I noticed a few things with these videos - like I look "arched" like I'm leaning backwards. Fidgety hands and draw thumb-feels like it takes an inch of movement to reach the "click" sometimes. Elbow looks high but is aligned with the arrow. I would be interested in any constructive criticism... Yeah, i know, I should be closer to the bales but they are brand new and have to use both hands and a foot to pull my arrows out from 3 yards.

left follow through

first end

third end


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## Moebow

Rick, Have you tried a flatter release hand? You turn your hand completely inverted on your face and then in every shot, I can see you increasing pressure on the release with your middle and ring finger. Try setting the back of your hand at about 30* from horizontal or said another way from where your hand is now, roll the little finger down about 60*. the BT release works much better this way as you relaxed wrist is in a better position. If you watch the first video (from the back) look at the angle that your elbow moves on release. The hand should be sitting at that same angle at full draw. This will help the release to activate with Back tension rather than fingers. You mention Larry's 21 day practice. Did you work with Larry? If so I am sure that he mentioned the angle of the release hand. I wouldn't worry too much about some of the other things you mention until you have more comfort and confidence in the BT release.


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## Rick!

Moebow said:


> Rick, Have you tried a flatter release hand? You turn your hand completely inverted on your face and then in every shot, I can see you increasing pressure on the release with your middle and ring finger. Try setting the back of your hand at about 30* from horizontal or said another way from where your hand is now, roll the little finger down about 60*. the BT release works much better this way as you relaxed wrist is in a better position. If you watch the first video (from the back) look at the angle that your elbow moves on release. The hand should be sitting at that same angle at full draw. This will help the release to activate with Back tension rather than fingers. You mention Larry's 21 day practice. Did you work with Larry? If so I am sure that he mentioned the angle of the release hand. I wouldn't worry too much about some of the other things you mention until you have more comfort and confidence in the BT release.


Thanks for the feedback. I tried rotating my hand a bit yesterday and it seems to allow an easier entry to the "click". It also makes for a more vague anchor which gets me out of my comfort zone a bit and seems to move the string out of position on my face. I'll play with it some more and see what happens. 

One thing I do notice is that if I exhale after the "click" that it the release is much easier to activate. (I do have it set fairly firm right now) Since exhaling probably changes aim point I'm not sure that that is a good way to achieve a release. I'm thinking there is some kind of tension preventing my back muscles from contracting properly at times. Is exhaling through the release proper? 

I don't know Larry but I've read Core Archery several times and keep referring back to it during this process. I'm also reading a lot of John Dudley's articles from his website to pick up tips on proper fundamentals.


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## Moebow

It will take some "playing" to find what works for you. I do think that having a flatter hand position will help with both the "click" and the release. Having that hand oriented on the same plane that your elbow travels will allow activation much more effectively. As with anything else, one try will not give you a fair chance to effect a change (don't forget Larry's 21 day recommendation). Your different hand position, shouldn't change your reference points too much but it will feel strange for a while. This is where a string bow and the release comes in. You can practice your release and when done correctly, the string will shoot out of your hand for 5/6 feet. If incorrect, the string will just loop lazily around your bow hand. This is a self critiquing exercise:teeth:


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## subconsciously

After settling into my anchor with index pressure, keeping the hand flat, I rotate into the release far enought to relieve index pressure and fall into the click. At this point my draw arm is relaxed and all the tension is bled into the back. As my subconscious mind processes the shot I am able to aim and fire using only back tension.

Many will argue, but I reach for the target. Not a push. It is easier to keep back tension if the front half is engaged.


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## Rick!

Just thought I'd give an update after practicing Moebow's and subconsciously's suggestions. I've settled in on a draw hand position that makes for an easy transition to get to the click on my release without much index finger movement. I've also monkeyed around with draw length as I felt a bit cramped after 4-5 days of playing with draw hand position. I was also getting some tension in the LH side of my neck and now it is way better with the added draw length. The biggest breakthrough I've found is I can get to the click, start squeezing more and the shot just happens without feeling like I'm trying to crack a walnut between my shoulder blade and spine. It feels a whole lot more efficient and it's quite rewarding to have a somewhat repeatable shot sequence now. Sure, I still get hung up and have to draw down when my draw shoulder isn't set right but that's what practice is for. Hopefully in a week I'll have a bit more repeatability in my draw hand/shoulder positioning and move to aiming...

Eight days later..


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## sightmaster

Rick! said:


> I'm in the process of overhauling my form and shooting process after a rather embarrassing performance at state. I'm starting to blank bale shoot with a hinge style release with a clicker after a few weeks of draw rope practice and noticed something odd last night. With my old form and release, it was easy to hold my sight picture during the follow through and watch the arrow hit the target. Now, if I expand "hard" after the click, I get a left movement of the bow immediately after release and am unable to watch arrow flight. If I cheat on the release and relax my release index finger and use less expansion (reaching forward with bow hand and pulling into thewall and back muscle scrunching) I can minimize the left lateral follow through. I haven't spent a lot of time yet figuring this out so I'm asking the experts if this is a byproduct of back tension or am I creating a fundamental flaw? (RH shooter, PSE BM XL, no sights) Thanks in advance for any help.


the left movement is just you torquing the bow. you can get a back tention if you want but it takes practice to get used to it


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## aread

Please don't take this the wrong way, but you need to back off on the draw weight as much as you can. Watch how you have to engage and push with the muscles in your bow shoulder to get the bow to full draw. If you are serious about accuracy, you want a bow with a low enough DW to set your bow shoulder and arm and then draw and execute with little or no change in your shoulder position.

It looks like you've already backed off at least a couple of turns. I think that bow can only be backed off 4 turns.

A couple of times I saw you lose focus. I can see your stabilizer dip, come back up and then you release the arrrow. Any time you lose focus on the target you should let down. Trying to release on the bounce is punching and could easily lead to target panic. If your pin is dipping there are several possible culprits. For me, it's loss of back tension as I relax into the shot. Others seem to think it's a sign that your DL is set too long and others say it's loss of focus. It's possible that it's any or all of these and there are a couple of other possibilities. 

JMHO,
Allen


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## Rick!

aread said:


> Please don't take this the wrong way, but you need to back off on the draw weight as much as you can. Watch how you have to engage and push with the muscles in your bow shoulder to get the bow to full draw. If you are serious about accuracy, you want a bow with a low enough DW to set your bow shoulder and arm and then draw and execute with little or no change in your shoulder position.
> 
> It looks like you've already backed off at least a couple of turns. I think that bow can only be backed off 4 turns.
> A couple of times I saw you lose focus. I can see your stabilizer dip, come back up and then you release the arrrow. Any time you lose focus on the target you should let down. Trying to release on the bounce is punching and could easily lead to target panic. If your pin is dipping there are several possible culprits. For me, it's loss of back tension as I relax into the shot. Others seem to think it's a sign that your DL is set too long and others say it's loss of focus. It's possible that it's any or all of these and there are a couple of other possibilities.
> 
> JMHO,
> Allen


Thanks for the feedback. The "Eight days later" video is at longer draw length which was a bit too much draw weight for target shooting, like you mention. I have since shortened the draw length for a steadier aim and noticed that the draw weight is lighter. I can now basically point the nocked arrow at the target and pull straight back to my anchor. If needed I, can drop the weight further as I think I can go out 6 turns on this bow.
Right now I'm shooting at 10 yards with a sight. Shooting an end of blank bale before shooting spots really helps with the feel of a clean release process. I've found that you can punch or hurry a hinge which tends to throw the arrow high right. I'm still getting locked up which I think is about 50/50 head versus proper draw shoulder position. On a blank bale, it's easy to draw, "click", close my eyes, squeeze and allow the release just to happen. On a spot, I really need to coach myself to get the right anchored feel, efficiently get the "click" and then aim/release. If I feel it takes too long or too much energy to set the hinge, then I have to draw down and start over. I find that I can "drive" the pin all over the white without any hang ups - steadiness seems to be relative to how much back tension I hold after coming to full draw. If I don't relax my back too much after anchoring, things go pretty good. 

Looking at my target, it appears I'm tending right so it shouldn't surprise me that this happens. I thought I had room for an inside out, seems my subconscious showed me differently. Aim appeared good and release felt good - I just wasn't paying attention to the shredded rh part of the white.










I'll put up another video once I feel reasonably consistent with my 10 yard shot process.


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## Rantz

How are things going? I'm at a similar stage with my hinge release.


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## Rick!

> How are things going? I'm at a similar stage with my hinge release.


First, I've settled on one really comfortable hinge and traded off the others. I think that is an important part of the process. 

At 10 yards, I think I have a good shot process and it's easy to get a good release and easy to hit inside outs. At 15 yards, it takes more dedicated concentration to focus on the X and allow the release to occur. I have tried 20 yards a bit and tuned my bow but I'm really not ready yet. The coolest result out of the whole form transformation is just concentrating on the X, letting the pin go out of focus, let the shot happen and the arrow hits the X. It happens way too regularly to be luck so I'm just going with it. Since we have learned in another thread here that there is no such thing as using your subconscious, it must be the "Force." :wink: 

I've also found out you can "punch" a hinge. I used to be able to let down when things weren't going well in a shot. Now, I've learned to let down if my grip or sight picture or even my breathing doesn't feel right. In other words, I let down a lot more. The reset helps to prevent fliers and the resulting self deprecation after a poor shot result.

And, applying the same kind of shot process to my golf game, I've dropped a stroke off my handicap.


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## Rick!

Here's a video after 26 days of work on my form and shot process. Right now I'm just playing the 10 yard game. I think my draw hand position is a little better and draw arm follow through is reasonable. The bow recoils forward after the arrow is gone and 26.66 frames per second makes for "***" if you watch the cam at release.

My observations;
If I get anxious on the release, the arrow goes out of the X to the right at about 4:00. 
If I shoot with glasses, it takes 3 ends of forehead grease to cloud my vision out of the upper left corner of my right lens.
I need to remind myself on each shot that the goal is an X - hope doesn't cut it.
It's really easy to relax too much in the valley - on the same note, it's easy to overdo tension also.
If you turn up the draw weight, you need to increase the break on the release also.
I seem to shoot decent if I get a release between 4 - 8 seconds after "click." Any more and the sight picture goes away or I seem to be holding back as the pin isn't in a perfect position or I try to speed up my tension and observation 1 comes true.

Setup:
Limbs screws out 6 turns to 55lbs (3lbs less would be better for a smoother draw cycle)
Stan Jet Black with .010 clicker

Question to the coach guys:
Does it look like I'm "getting it?" 
Do you have any suggestions for form or shot process improvement?


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## aread

You are doing a lot of things right. I think you still need to turn the DW down because you have extra bow shoulder engagement that doesn't help.

But the biggest thing is that you are stopping your shot at the moment of release. You should find a conclusion to your shot that keeps you engaged in the shot for a split second more. Check out ArcheryTV on youtube. See how the best in the world do it. You don't need to copy any of them, but watch them to see the principle of staying with the shot a little longer.

JMHO,
Allen


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## da white shoe

Your self-control is admirable... nice couple of let-downs!!!
That is the toughest thing for me to do!
Listen to Allens' advice on the ending.


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## SpotShy

Rick, 
Your dedication deserves commending. I will have to agree with Allen. You can always add the poundage once technique is mastered. The comments I have is as follows:
In order to be efficient as possible it is highly recommended that you establish immediate target acquisition. To do this I tell my students to pre-aim, lock your gaze to the center molecule of the X and then draw the bow bringing the peep to your eye and the sight immediately to the spot of your gaze without losing the laser beam focus on the center molecule of the X and achieve anchor. Continue to aim, then commit, start motor, aim, aim, and bam the release fires and the arrow hits the spot you were focused on. The lower bow poundage that Allen suggested will allow you to bring the bow to your line of aim without disruption or distraction from aim.
Second, I would suggest that you work on establishing a rhythm to your shot sequence. I have timed your hold on shots you have videoed. Some take as little as 9 seconds after anchor is achieved and others take 16-17 seconds. Much of this has to do with not immediately acquiring the target and some of it has to do with too much focus on the execution of the release or where the pin is on the target. I am not sure how much blank bale you have done but the time one spends there learning the release is invaluable. Once on target we have to trust our aim and forget the pin, start the motor and let the release happen. The hardest part of archery in my opinion is trusting our form to put the arrow where we are aiming while not worrying where the pin is on the target. 
You have done a lot of good work. Write down a shot sequence, post it on the butt so you can go through it step by step. Develop a rhythm so that the process is faster and consistent in time. The biggest issue I see with people is that once they begin to immediately acquire the target they get there so fast they sometime forget what to do next. It sounds odd but it’s true. Accuracy is all about comfort. If we get on target quicker we don’t have to hold long. This prevents fatigue, the sight picture is steadier and we are more comfortable to make the best shot. Finally I would suggest doing some aiming drills without firing. Work on pre-aim, draw to anchor, immediate acquisition, aim hard and then let down. On the flip side practice the release execution separately on the bale. Once both are feeling great put them together and you will be a scary man. Best of luck!
SpotShy


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## aread

Rick,

Compare your video with the four archers in the video linked in the first post in this tread:

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1799618

First, don't be discouraged or overly critical of your form. You are progressing very nicely. These guys are four of the best in the world. At least 99% of all archers would not compare favorably with these guys. 

A few things to see and adapt are:
- how they draw their bows - they get to full draw very smoothly and they don't make big adjustments once they hit anchors
- the explosion and follow through
- patience at full draw 
- shoulders level

The great posters on this forum can probably point out other things that are worth noticing.

Obviously, since you are a different person with a different body and different experience, you can't copy these guys. But look at the basics of what they are doing. 

Also, you might notice that each of them has something that the form police would critisize. Tim punches and leans his head forward, Chance's bow is set a little long on the DL. This just illustrates the old saying that "Classic form is just a good place to start. You have to find what works best for you". 

Another thing to remember, at some time in the past, these guys were no better than you or me. They struggled with the same thing that we do. They just learned how to take it to the highest level. We can too.

Allen


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## Rick!

Thanks for the constructive criticism aread, da white shoe and SpotShy, I really, really appreciate it. I detuned my draw weight this morning (untwisted the cable 6 turns, lowered the nock height and adjusted peep and sight). Once you pointed out my bow shoulder, it was obvious to the point of bugging me as it came up a bit and back down as I settled in. I am working on drawing to anchor without closing my left eye and concentrating on not being distracted from the X. Initial results are way easier inside outs. Finishing the shot is going to take mindful effort, it seems. At 10 yards it doesn't seem to matter much but at 20 it really does (especially bareshafts). My goal is a 60X/300 at 10yds before moving back to 15. Once I think I've reached a level of consistency with all of your advice, I'll put up another video. Thanks again.


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## subconsciously

1. Get a bow holster - part of doing the same thing every time starts with the loading of the arrow.
2. Remember you got 4 minutes to shoot 5 arrows. Get a timer. When my timing is right - I am on my 3rd arrow with 2:48 +- left on the clock- no joke. Timing is not only in your shot, but in the overall picture of the end. 
3. Make sure you take at lest a 4 minute break before each end. Practice how you play (in a tournament).
4. Here is where I differ from some of the other coaches. I do practice on coming into the spot I want to shoot on the draw - this comes with practice. I "do not" start aiming until I have gone thru my shot process - and I have come into the click. I am looking at the spot I want to hit, but I am not consciously aiming - my mind is on my set up.. My pin is usually just above the spot when it "clicks". After the click and my pin settles in the spot I start aiming - When I start aiming I tell myself "aim, aim, aim, aim, aim", keep your mind on track. Going from aiming to any other part of the shot is unacceptable. It is just aim-- start the motor-- and aim till the shot breaks. The mind can only super focus on one thing for only a few seconds till it starts to wander (to another part of the shot).

Remember it is just as much a mental game as a physical game. Have confidence in your form and trust your sight picture.

Have fun......good luck


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## Scott.Barrett

subconsciously said:


> 1. Get a bow holster - part of doing the same thing every time starts with the loading of the arrow.
> 2. Remember you got 4 minutes to shoot 5 arrows. Get a timer. When my timing is right - I am on my 3rd arrow with 2:48 +- left on the clock- no joke. Timing is not only in your shot, but in the overall picture of the end.
> 3. Make sure you take at lest a 4 minute break before each end. Practice how you play (in a tournament).
> 4. Here is where I differ from some of the other coaches. I do practice on coming into the spot I want to shoot on the draw - this comes with practice. I "do not" start aiming until I have gone thru my shot process - and I have come into the click. I am looking at the spot I want to hit, but I am not consciously aiming - my mind is on my set up.. My pin is usually just above the spot when it "clicks". After the click and my pin settles in the spot I start aiming - When I start aiming I tell myself "aim, aim, aim, aim, aim", keep your mind on track. Going from aiming to any other part of the shot is unacceptable. It is just aim-- start the motor-- and aim till the shot breaks. The mind can only super focus on one thing for only a few seconds till it starts to wander (to another part of the shot).
> 
> Remember it is just as much a mental game as a physical game. Have confidence in your form and trust your sight picture.
> 
> Have fun......good luck



All great advice here! For anyone who is working on getting a great shot, just read number 4 above until it sinks in!


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## Rick!

Here is an update on my transformation after 151 days.
Observations: this whole process is like quitting smoking - I have to stay on top of my shot process and really concentrate on the X on _every_ shot or the end result doesn't meet expectations. 
It looks like my draw is a tad long, I think I'll try shortening it up a few twists. Also, the soft PSE draw stop wears out after a few hundred shots and lets things creep out.
The bow is at 58lbs as I'm still hunting for a few months so my draw shoulder reflects the extra draw tension.
I haven't shot a 60X 10 yard game yet. I was getting between 52-56X with 25-30 inside outs last spring - haven't shot any games recently. Shooting 10 yards last night with the single vee bar was really easy to stack arrows inside the X ring.
Follow through is getting more natural with repetition.
BT is easy shooting varmints like squirrels and chipmunks but it is way harder to commit and relax on a shot on a deer.

151 days later


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## ZEF

leaps and bounds of improvement 
What I can see that might need a bit of looking into ...

1-set you bow hand and arm , then come up together evenly with the bow arm " locked " into you're shooting position , in other word set up early for bone on bone , you will find this is much more consistent and a much stronger brace that will not become week as quickly. Your movement now is also causing you to roll your bow shoulder into the shot which is difficult to re-pete and becomes taxing on the shoulder which means your shot will be weaker as the day goes by 

2- you have too much hand in the bow , rotate the bow hand a bit more ( pinky higher ) , and relax the hands completely - it almost looks like your snatching the bow after the shot ? The bow is not taking a natural course of reaction after the shot ( this can be the video ? ) a good close up of the hand would tell better

3-you are moving your head into the bow slightly , not a big movement , but bring the bow to you , this is usually do to a fit problem or a bad habbit from a former fit problem. 

4- relax after the shot you seem to be stoping the natural flow of follow thru at times ?

looking good

as far as relaxing goes , BREATH , and think about the shot process


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## Rick!

ZEF said:


> leaps and bounds of improvement
> What I can see that might need a bit of looking into ...
> 
> 1-set you bow hand and arm , then come up together evenly with the bow arm " locked " into you're shooting position , in other word set up early for bone on bone , you will find this is much more consistent and a much stronger brace that will not become week as quickly. Your movement now is also causing you to roll your bow shoulder into the shot which is difficult to re-pete and becomes taxing on the shoulder which means your shot will be weaker as the day goes by


Working on this. It feels different but it is pretty easy to execute.



> 2- you have too much hand in the bow , rotate the bow hand a bit more ( pinky higher ) , and relax the hands completely - it almost looks like your snatching the bow after the shot ? The bow is not taking a natural course of reaction after the shot ( this can be the video ? ) a good close up of the hand would tell better


I've rotated it a little. PSE's are a bit narrow so they have a narrow range of "naturally comfortable". I've looked at the video a bunch and I do "snatch" the bow as it recoils forward after the arrow leaves. Right now, good or not, I'm just letting the bow go where it wants without letting my arm drop.



> 3-you are moving your head into the bow slightly , not a big movement , but bring the bow to you , this is usually do to a fit problem or a bad habbit from a former fit problem.


I recognized this. I'm practicing bringing the bow into my face which works when I have the peep adjusted perfectly and my anchor finds "home" consistently. This also seems tied into my draw - breathing - relax sequence; if I don't breathe out and relax fully after drawing, then the rest of the sequence is a bit off and the shot doesn't break efficiently.



> 4- relax after the shot you seem to be stoping the natural flow of follow thru at times ?


Like aread suggested above, I watched a lot of compound shooter videos on archerytv. I saw several different follow-throughs and was surprised at how some of them appeared rather "uncontrolled." Relaxing seems to be a vital part to my whole shot sequence so I will keep working on it. 



> looking good
> 
> as far as relaxing goes , BREATH , and think about the shot process


I'm back to shooting spots at 10 yards and am enjoying a few rewards of this process. This week I shot a 55X where one 5 was a broken nock shot with a poor recovery for a 5 on the following shot. Today I shot a 59X and I know exactly why the lone 5 happened. (with a timer but not a full 6 minutes between ends)
What I learned today is:
- The exhale after draw has to be substantial to relax my bow arm, grip, allow progressing to click and enable a smooth squeeze to shot break. The shot break gets a bit forced if I don't exhale enough.
- Shots tending left are due to too much bow arm tension or pushing with the bow arm or both.
- shots tending right or high right are from forcing a shot break
- it takes 20-25 seconds to draw down, reset and restart a shot
- a perfectly adjusted peep coupled with adequate stab and vee bar weight make for WAY LESS sight movement. For me, this results in significantly fewer disappearing pins/rings. With the sight picture movement reduced so much, the pin doesn't wander out of focus or as far. I can recover it now with a controlled left eye squint and still hit an inside out. Before, if the pin disappeared and I tried to recover it, the POI would be pretty far off. (I think Larry W talks of this in his book.) Anyway, I thought this was a pretty big revelation and I'm excited that I can hold my ring on the X for a several more seconds than before.

Thanks to everyone who has contributed advice, spots are starting to get fun again.


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