# PRO's ---- VEGAS ---- DRESS CODE in effect



## FV Chuck

Ladies and gents.

Dress Code is IN EFFECT for Vegas.

Plan and dress accordingly

NO DENIM (Blue Jeans)

Chuck
NFAA Pro Chair


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## dwagoner

thats ridiculious, what do you want them to wear their pants from their tux they got married in??? i can see torn up pants but jeans are not tacky. gonna be interesting to see what everyone looks like in same type of Khakis


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## Swede

I have to ask, how does this affect international participants who are not members of the NFAA? And if applicable, where can I find a copy of the dresscode?

/Magnus


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## Edsel

I guess it would be a nice change. 

It _*may*_ make participants look more refined and project a better image for the sport, but that's just one person's opinion.


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## CHPro

If you are not an NFAA Pro the dress code does not apply, but you are more than welcome to also dress the part. The dress code is relatively easy to abide by. In the case of the guys, just wear any pants that are not denim - khaki's, dress slacks, cargos, etc., are all good. Collared shirts.

As far as appearances go, most anyone who attended the recent IA ProAm would be able to tell you that there was a very noticeable visable difference observing the Championship line shooting, many of whom were NFAA Pros, who were dressed in their khakis vs. watching the other lines shooting throughout the day. You could see the difference. Does it make an archer perform better? No, of course not. But there is a definite visual impact that I think is positive, imo.

>>------>


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## FV Chuck

Swede said:


> I have to ask, how does this affect international participants who are not members of the NFAA? And if applicable, where can I find a copy of the dresscode?
> 
> /Magnus


Magnus - Only if your an NFAA Pro... 
Dress Code is available in the NFAA website -
http://www.nfaa-archery.org/depot/documents/956-2010527-2010-2011 Constitution & By-Laws.pdf

Pro Section starts about page 35

Chuck Cooley
NFAA Pro Chair


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## Ditch Pickle

I back you 100 percent dress the part or go home


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## ILOVE3D

It's ironic that when some people go to big time archery tournaments they think nothing of wearing denim, camo, clothes with holes in them and just look like an unmaid bed.(like I've seen at Vegas) The same people complain that archery does not get the same respect say as golf does. How do we ever elevate our sport to one of a professional level people want to watch if we dress like red necks at the big tournaments. We just might attract more sponsors and their money if we look a little more professional. (perhaps a little media attention as well) IMHO


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## field14

ILOVE3D said:


> It's ironic that when some people go to big time archery tournaments they think nothing of wearing denim, camo, clothes with holes in them and just look like an unmaid bed.(like I've seen at Vegas) The same people complain that archery does not get the same respect say as golf does. How do we ever elevate our sport to one of a professional level people want to watch if we dress like red necks at the big tournaments. We just might attract more sponsors and their money if we look a little more professional. (perhaps a little media attention as well) IMHO


Couldn't agree more! But, Americans are stuck on this, "I'll wear and dress however I want, act in public however I want, and nobody is going to tell me any differently." All this "freedom of expression" stuff, you know, and "political correctness" cuz we can't hurt anyone's iddy bitty feelings now can we? COMPLY with rules? NOT! The "I"/"ME" generation figures that "Rules are for Fools" and "Rules are made to be broken", and "If it feels good, just do it".

Sure, the PROS can have and enforce a dress code, but it doesn't do any good in the potential sponsors eyes when there are "slop mongers" that stand out like a sore thumb with regard to manner of dress and appearance that are wandering around like country bumpkins.

The Europeans are starting to pretty much "take over" with regard to outdoor and indoor archery with exceptionally well run, clean cut events, and a DRESS CODE that is enforced to the letter. GNAS has a standard dress code that is adhered to without exception, and if you don't like the code, then don't even try to participate. Shirts for teams or "sponsored" shooters MUST meet GNAS code and be approved for wear at events. Everyone attending complies, or "there's the door."
The PROS are making the correct move in establishing a dress code and adhering to it, and personally I wish they'd have it across the board and not just for "Pro Points/sanctioned events". 

field14 (Tom D.)


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## Scott.Barrett

I found that the people were very well dressed at the ASA in Florida this past weekend. I personally have no problem with denim, but the collared shirts just made the event look real nice! Interesting that I don't have to wear a collared shirt to my FITA events...


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## FishAlaska

From what I saw, many of the NFFA Pros in the Championship Class in Vegas were in jeans. I guess this is their way of controlling the rules...or I can assume many disqualifications are forth coming? There are at least 20 shooting on the 400 PM line.

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## Bobmuley

I really don't get the whole anti-jean thing since they're worn by professionals worldwide every day of the week. You can wear sweats and even those stupid cargo pants, but not a new pair of Wranglers.


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## Pete53

in my trade we all wore nice clean blue jeans, i was a powerlineman or just plain pole climber who put electrical wires back up. i almost feel insulted that blue jeans or wranglers are kinda of a disgrace in the world of archery. can anybody say the ladies look bad in blue jeans " like daisy duke "? personally blue jeans look good but i am just a work`n person .


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## "Supertec"

I coudnt agreee more .. i think khakis and dress shirts or such attire should be enforced at the state shoots the same as the national level. 

90 meter shoots for fita are mandatory .. enforced dress .. khakis and dress shirts ( polos, button up) or traditional white.

Just my thoughts but only being 37yrs old id still feel we need to live up the traditions set before us.


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## LIHOYTARCHER

dress the part , your a PRO ,you are to represent the sport of archery, if the workplace requires a uniform, wear it or go home,,, same here...dont like it, dont shoot i guess the color or kind of pants will make you shoot better?????.. chuck see you in oneonta, dave d will not be making the shoot again ... we have to do an updated photo again. have fun and good luck to all in vegas. tell alan i said hello,,scott


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## ishoff

khaki's and polo shirts would be my choice for reasonable dress. I have not seen the dress code, but that's my opinion only. I'm sure most professionals wear jeans in their private life, but dress differently in professional life


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## FishAlaska

The Pro chair that started this thread was there and shooting. Only to be laughed at and be disrespected for him trying to enforce the rule. My opinion is it is not hard to wait on the line and walk it, sending people off that dont meet the rules. You, you, and you...until you meet dress code you will not be shooting. That simple. Sponsors should not allow thier shooters to violate rules. It is not that hard Mr. Cooley. You are letting the violators control policy and that makes you and your rules look worthless and brings discredit upon the NFAA.


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## field14

FishAlaska said:


> The Pro chair that started this thread was there and shooting. Only to be laughed at and be disrespected for him trying to enforce the rule. My opinion is it is not hard to wait on the line and walk it, sending people off that dont meet the rules. You, you, and you...until you meet dress code you will not be shooting. That simple. Sponsors should not allow thier shooters to violate rules. It is not that hard Mr. Cooley. You are letting the violators control policy and that makes you and your rules look worthless and brings discredit upon the NFAA.


Chuck TRIED. He communicated it in advance, just like he is supposed to do! Supposedly the agreement was made among the Card Carrying Pros to adopt a dress code. Obviously, something changed...likely because there is no "TEETH" to the rule. Same thing is happening through-out our society..."Hey, if enough of us violated the rules, then what are they going to do, kick us ALL out?" Not likely...and you can see it all over: Talking on cell phones while driving, texting while driving, speed limits, immigration.
It is tough to enforce when you are inundated with violations..>BUT...a stand has to be taken by somebody.

I don't think it is up to Chuck to ENFORCE the dress code. He is the Pro Rep, NOT the "policeman". Apparently the host organizations don't figure a dress code is important enough, along with a few other safety related violations to deal with, so it is allowed to continue unabated. The host org will continue to shuck it off on a "rep" or to have the shooters police themselves (yeah, right...that works every time, hahaha. NOT), rather than get into the thick of it and TAKE A STAND for ENFORCEMENT by getting some cajunas. If the host orgs aren't going to back up the "Rep" in his attempts, then the Rep is totally helpless to do anything but chatter. _*That is one reason why a dress code that applies to SOME, but not ALL will not ever work out and be effective*_

NOT enforcing the dress code has pretty much taken it and put it on back burner once again. Those same people that were violating the dress code at Vegas, however, should they choose to go overseas and try to compete, will either comply with the dress code...or they WILL be taken off the shooting line, plain and simple.

More damage done to the image of the "Pros" by simple non-compliance to a rule that was announced in advance but obviously ignored by many. Sad. Yet, those same non-compliers want sponsorship monies, bigger purses, and all that just tossed right at them without strings attached? Just this simple violation put eggs on their faces, big time! If those non-compliers think that they sneaked by without anybody noticing, they had better think again; their arrogance will not pay the dividends they think they are supposed to get.

Once again, we probably don't know exactly what went on either.

field14 (Tom D.)


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## FV Chuck

FishAlaska said:


> The Pro chair that started this thread was there and shooting. Only to be laughed at and be disrespected for him trying to enforce the rule. My opinion is it is not hard to wait on the line and walk it, sending people off that dont meet the rules. You, you, and you...until you meet dress code you will not be shooting. That simple. Sponsors should not allow thier shooters to violate rules. It is not that hard Mr. Cooley. You are letting the violators control policy and that makes you and your rules look worthless and brings discredit upon the NFAA.


You have no clue what went on, what was said, who was reprimanded, who is even a card carrying Pro on that line.

Until you have access to that information all of your OPINIONS are based on half truths and misinformation...they will be treated as such.

Mr. Cooley


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## FV Chuck

Let me end it all here.....

Violators of the dress code were noted, actions when possible are/were taken.

Details about those actions are private

End


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## FishAlaska

FV Chuck said:


> You have no clue what went on, what was said, who was reprimanded, who is even a card carrying Pro on that line.
> 
> Until you have access to that information all of your OPINIONS are based on half truths and misinformation...they will be treated as such.
> 
> Mr. Cooley


You are correct that we dont know nor should we know. We only know what the violators were saying on the shooting line and yet they were still allowed to compete day 1-3 still dressed in rodeo attire They were card pros or they would of had no reason to be discussing it. You did all you can do without the support you need. It is poor coduct on thier part.


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## RickT

First let me say that I am not a Pro. I did shoot Championship Senior and I did not wear denim out of respect for the Pro's that did adhere to the dress code. I did notice a difference this year compared to last year in the appearence of all of the Pro's shooting. I do agree the Manufactures/Sponsors should expect their shooters to follow the rules. Mr. Cooley, your efforts made a positive impact on the Vegas Shoot and I hope thatcarries forward to the rest of the sport as well.


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## FV Chuck

After the events that took place this weekend... I dont expect it to be a problem going forward.

There was clear and visible intent by several people to adhere to the rules, and I cant thank them enough for doing so.
There was clear and visible intent by others to not follow the posted rules of competition.... the ramifications for that are widespread and again are not going to be discussed. Although I do find it interesting the visible difference between Friday and Saturdays lines.

I find it personally difficult to endorse or support those persons for any reason, but I am still in a position where I must try to improve the group as a whole. Some will find fault or resist at every turn no matter what we/I do. It's part of the job.

I'll end it with this opinion; Respect is a two way street, it should be earned as well as shared. When mine is needed have you shared yours?


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## FV Chuck

RickT said:


> First let me say that I am not a Pro. I did shoot Championship Senior and I did not wear denim out of respect for the Pro's that did adhere to the dress code. I did notice a difference this year compared to last year in the appearence of all of the Pro's shooting. I do agree the Manufactures/Sponsors should expect their shooters to follow the rules. Mr. Cooley, your efforts made a positive impact on the Vegas Shoot and I hope thatcarries forward to the rest of the sport as well.


Thank you Rick... I appreciate it


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## franzofumi

All that archery would be if nazis won the war! In italy you have to were white pants to compete in fita turnament...that's one of the why i shot 3d fiarc! 

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## FishAlaska

RickT said:


> First let me say that I am not a Pro. I did shoot Championship Senior and I did not wear denim out of respect for the Pro's that did adhere to the dress code. I did notice a difference this year compared to last year in the appearence of all of the Pro's shooting. I do agree the Manufactures/Sponsors should expect their shooters to follow the rules. Mr. Cooley, your efforts made a positive impact on the Vegas Shoot and I hope thatcarries forward to the rest of the sport as well.


You are a true competitor. I applaud your respect. However some manufactures and younger Pros lost mine. There were some true champions on the line and there were some that although changed their appearance...their mouths flapped about the ruling and they tried to rally support for their cause I have a feeling things will change in the future or our sport will continue to decline as was already mentioned in the meetings.

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## field14

Quick way to get their attention...since they are "bad-mouthing" the referees...FINE THEM..and to be sure they pay it....if they have any "winnings"....take that "fine" off the check right then and there. If they continue...suspend them for a couple of tournaments. Maybe that will get their attention....legal implications??? How is WA/FITA doing it and they've ENFORCED their dress code for years! Sure, they get bad-mouthed about it, but they are stead-fast and if you don't dress correctly, get off our shooting line until you do!

field14 (Tom D.)


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## FishAlaska

field14 said:


> Quick way to get their attention...since they are "bad-mouthing" the referees...FINE THEM..and to be sure they pay it....if they have any "winnings"....take that "fine" off the check right then and there. If they continue...suspend them for a couple of tournaments. Maybe that will get their attention....legal implications??? How is WA/FITA doing it and they've ENFORCED their dress code for years! Sure, they get bad-mouthed about it, but they are stead-fast and if you don't dress correctly, get off our shooting line until you do!
> 
> field14 (Tom D.)


I agree Tom but I believe the manufactures have some monetary pull in the NFAA. If you kick one of their pros off the line there might be issues. I personally say if you let your pro show up like this bad on you we dont want your money. But there are politics in the NFAA and it is all about money.


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## field14

The WA (FITA)/NAA sure doesn't have a problem with it, and there ARE sponsored shooters that shoot those events, compound and recurve shooters both! In those associations however, there is no p****y-footing around...Comply with the rules, or get off the shooting line, sponsored high profile shooter or not. There are several manufacturers that are big money donors to those events, too, one in particular is really high profile and getting bigger!

So much for solidarity among the NFAA Pros...MOST are complying and doing it right...and the few that aren't are thumbing their noses not only at the NFAA/WAF...but their fellow card carrying pros as well; taking away from ALL of them. More of the "I/ME" generation? perhaps.....

However, we are being told that "things" were/are being done about this non-compliance and that there was vast "improvement in dress" for the Saturday and Sunday lines, so progress is golden! I would well imagine that there is likely a plan for "progressive discipline" in order to ward off any lawsuits or potential "legal issues". With proper progressive discipline procedures it may take time, but offenders will either hang themselves or they will come into the mold.

field14 (Tom D.)


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## FV Chuck

It's not quite that simple....

There are processes and procedures. We are working through them, but it's really really important to understand that the goal is not to throw people off the line or fine them or suspend them. The goal is to present a group of archers that are marketable. That presentation aspect has many many fronts. Appearance and attitude are only a couple. Just being a champion means very little anymore. If you need an example please Google Dennis Rodman

It's also CRITICAL to understand that the MAJORITY of Pro's did in fact follow the code. I have loads and loads of respect for those who did. Rather than focus your attention on those who did not and what happened to them please focus your attention on those who did and reward them with praise publicly. Thats my goal.... raise awareness and public image of those who deserve it. 

For instance these guys in the mens finals....They all wore slacks of some sort....
Chance, Levi, Jesse, Christopher Perkins (Can), Keith Trail, Jeff Hopkins, Grant, Nshan, Kendall, Sergio Pagni (Ita), Russell... 

(Photos by Kathy Poole from the Gold tip Facebook Page... do not reproduce, I grabbed them just to make a point)


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## Rolo

Watching the Championship line, it was easy to identify the pros from the posers beginning on day 1. Even the pros who didn't really like the "no jeans" rule abided by the dress code. Those who didn't, well...if they're gonna be a pro, they ceretainly ought to act and dress like one. Interesting in the end...the shoot-off...blue jeans not in sight. Maybe there is something more to the rule after-all...or maybe those pros who were in it, realized the importance of the perception that they gave off...

Chuck...you know wher I sand on the issue, and you have my support! :thumbs_up


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## FishAlaska

Rolo said:


> Watching the Championship line, it was easy to identify the pros from the posers beginning on day 1. Even the pros who didn't really like the "no jeans" rule abided by the dress code. Those who didn't, well...if they're gonna be a pro, they ceretainly ought to act and dress like one. Interesting in the end...the shoot-off...blue jeans not in sight. Maybe there is something more to the rule after-all...or maybe those pros who were in it, realized the importance of the perception that they gave off...
> 
> Chuck...you know wher I sand on the issue, and you have my support! :thumbs_up


I agree...the interesting part is on Wednesday and Thursday night the world champs looked like a million bucks along with their teamates. That image declined on Friday. Why dress for one occasion and not the other. Anyhow enough about them. Chuck, awesome photos, those are true professionals right there. My hats off to all of the Pros that followed the rules. I guess Mathews is selling rodeo attire now and they were testing their marketing techniques in Vegas! Not all, but some! Levi and the Mrs. fit the image. Thats what I expected to see from a set of Pros. But we all know she wouldnt let Levi out of the house looking like some of them did.


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## field14

FV Chuck said:


> It's not quite that simple....
> 
> There are processes and procedures. We are working through them, but it's really really important to understand that the goal is not to throw people off the line or fine them or suspend them. The goal is to present a group of archers that are marketable. That presentation aspect has many many fronts. Appearance and attitude are only a couple. Just being a champion means very little anymore. If you need an example please Google Dennis Rodman
> 
> It's also CRITICAL to understand that the MAJORITY of Pro's did in fact follow the code. I have loads and loads of respect for those who did. Rather than focus your attention on those who did not and what happened to them please focus your attention on those who did and reward them with praise publicly. Thats my goal.... raise awareness and public image of those who deserve it.
> 
> For instance these guys....Chance, Levi, Jesse, Christopher Perkins (Can), Keith Trail, Jeff Hopkins, Grant, Nshan, Kendall, Sergio Pagni (Ita), Russell...
> 
> (Photos by Kathy Poole from the Gold tip Facebook Page... do not reproduce, I grabbed them just to make a point)
> 
> 
> View attachment 1286869
> View attachment 1286870
> View attachment 1286871
> View attachment 1286872
> View attachment 1286873


Chuck,
You absolutely hit the nail on the head. The goal is NOT to 'toss 'em out, but to have a marketable product, and apparently some have yet to get that message, or don't want to??
When the majority of them are "in code", then those that aren't stand out like a sore thumb and don't get the "respect" and WILL catch the flak for it, too. You can see it in the very bottom photo, far right and the 2nd from the right (torn pocket??) and the last two on the far left. Stand out like a sore thumb, especially the 2nd from the right! Quite a difference.
Just like anything else, you can lead the horse to water, but you can't make them drink. Progressive "documented" action is about the only 'safe' way to get compliance and it appears that is the approach being undertaken.
Those in the pictures that are walking the walk and following the code look great and I would say that their sponsors and other potential sponsors can take not of who is whom and go from there.


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## FishAlaska

Some of those pictures are day 3 or 4 because I see one or more that were not dressed that way on Friday. I am glad to see they were pursuaded to comply although somewhat reluctant good on them. It will take time. Maybe, giving the benefit of doubt, they saw they were shooting in a rodeo arena on dirt...just a guess.

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## Rolo

FishAlaska said:


> I agree...the interesting part is on Wednesday and Thursday night the world champs looked like a million bucks along with their teamates. That image declined on Friday. Why dress for one occasion and not the other.


Tis amazing what established rules, both for the teams and the events, convince people to do. They were dressed like that the entire week too...from qualifications to the finals, all in their respective team uniforms.

I think given a little time, the NFAA Pro dress code will take hold and have some teeth. Remember the emphasis is new, and a well defined rule is forthcoming. I also think the manufacturers are going to require it of all their sponsored pro shooters. If everyone on their staff except a few, and more importantly, everyone on the other staffs are following the rules and presenting themselves in a professional manner, well...I think that writing is fairly clear...

Personally, I think a DC, modified, is also appropriate for the AM classes too. (ASA does it) A collared shirt and clean pants, including blue jeans isn't much to ask for. Additionally, there ought to be a requirement of basic human hygene and regular bathing...ain't much worse than shooting next to a guy who smells like he just came in after 2 months of being in the trees...


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## philhoney

Hi,
I am in the UK and a member of GNAS (now Archery GB)
Up until a few years ago there WAS a strict code, white or bottle green for tops and trousers or skirts. Loads of members complained that white was not a practical colour for shooting in a muddy field and different ,manufacturers had different ideas about what was bottle green as did the judges. Lots of people were not allowed to shoot because they had the wrong shade of green. About 2yrs ago the rules were relaxed a little so that club colours could be worn as long as they were registered with GNAS and I think it was last year the old dress code was ripped up and a new one brought into force.
No blue denim, any other colour denim is OK? No camo or olive drab. All tops must have sleeves and must cover the midriff, no beer bellies on show. No open toed shoes (safety)
I think that smart but casual is the answer but I do agree that if all the members of a particular team wear the same "uniform" they do look smarter than if everyone did their own thing.
Phil


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## drw

Rolo said:


> Tis amazing what established rules, both for the teams and the events, convince people to do. They were dressed like that the entire week too...from qualifications to the finals, all in their respective team uniforms.
> 
> I think given a little time, the NFAA Pro dress code will take hold and have some teeth. Remember the emphasis is new, and a well defined rule is forthcoming. I also think the manufacturers are going to require it of all their sponsored pro shooters. If everyone on their staff except a few, and more importantly, everyone on the other staffs are following the rules and presenting themselves in a professional manner, well...I think that writing is fairly clear...
> 
> Personally, I think a DC, modified, is also appropriate for the AM classes too. (ASA does it) A collared shirt and clean pants, including blue jeans isn't much to ask for. Additionally, there ought to be a requirement of basic human hygene and regular bathing...ain't much worse than shooting next to a guy who smells like he just came in after 2 months of being in the trees...


Did not know the ASA had a dress code,pros only or does it apply for everyone.Collared shirts hummmm,I find that worst than the no blue jean rule.How come we don't hear ASA archers complaining about having to wear collared shirts.


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## FishAlaska

Rolo said:


> Tis amazing what established rules, both for the teams and the events, convince people to do. They were dressed like that the entire week too...from qualifications to the finals, all in their respective team uniforms.
> 
> I think given a little time, the NFAA Pro dress code will take hold and have some teeth. Remember the emphasis is new, and a well defined rule is forthcoming. I also think the manufacturers are going to require it of all their sponsored pro shooters. If everyone on their staff except a few, and more importantly, everyone on the other staffs are following the rules and presenting themselves in a professional manner, well...I think that writing is fairly clear...
> 
> Personally, I think a DC, modified, is also appropriate for the AM classes too. (ASA does it) A collared shirt and clean pants, including blue jeans isn't much to ask for. Additionally, there ought to be a requirement of basic human hygene and regular bathing...ain't much worse than shooting next to a guy who smells like he just came in after 2 months of being in the trees...


Being in uniform all week then wearing jeans for Vegas world shoot tells me they did it to rebel and rub it in Chucks face. Flat out disrespect. And the talk on the line was embarrassing to hear and see. World Champions...ya "USA World Champions"...how embarrassing to the country to act that way at a world event in front of foreign visitors. I hope Hoyt and others have words and strict ones at that but I bet Kevin doesnt care, he has the Champion! I come from 22 years of military service so this behavior appauls me by any American on any USA team in any sport. 

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## Scott.Barrett

drw said:


> Did not know the ASA had a dress code,pros only or does it apply for everyone.Collared shirts hummmm,I find that worst than the no blue jean rule.How come we don't hear ASA archers complaining about having to wear collared shirts.



Simple...don't wear a collared shirt and you aren't allowed to shoot...and they enforce it....

SB


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## FishAlaska

Scott.Barrett said:


> Simple...don't wear a collared shirt and you aren't allowed to shoot...and they enforce it....
> 
> SB


Thats awesome!

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## field14

So much for "Team" respect, huh? Griping about a code you agreed to in advance, were then notified IN ADVANCE that the dress code was in force for the Vegas Shoot and then to intentionally thumb your nose at it and renig on your agreement? What "kind" of "Pro" does that? The kind that has the philosophy of "ME/I" am above all that snot and put it where the sun doesn't shine, I'll just up and do it MY way". Got by with it THIS time...or did you?

However, "they" are in the minority, thank heavens and their arrogance and disrespect stood out like a sore thumb, and you can bet those from other countries were probably thinking, "what a schmuck, you're an embarrassment to your country, your countrymen and yourself."

What goes around, comes around, and the rebellious ones will 'wear it' sooner or later (pun intended). Too bad that the "attitude" has to reflect on the entire Pro Division, however. The non-compliers don't even want to help themselves and can't see the forest for the trees...for them, it is "ME or I" and to heck with everything else.

For those in compliance; including those that really didn't 'want to' but did anyways, and those that didn't have to and did it anyways...You gained a TON of respect from those around you; they KNOW and they also know who the few non-compliers are, too.


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## CASHMONEY

This kind of nonsense ???? Shooting used to be about fun and hitting the target........Now its a fashion show! its this kind of nonsense that turns off a lot of shooters whether pro or Joe.

I Would Understand if shoots were televised and shooters had multimillion dollar contracts But they dont.... But hey we can watch it on utube!
I truelly believe that if I can make million dollar business deals in a button down shirt and blue jeans I should be able to shoot a piece of paper without a collar.

I know alot of guys that shy away from Organized competitive archery due the added cost of Dress codes (NFAA), Speed limits (ASA) Or lighter arrows ie SPEED (ibo). 

SO which is better for Archery more rules or more Participants??


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## Edsel

It's not like we're being made to dress in tights...

I guess it's like wearing Sunday's best to Church, for lack of a better analogy.

Trying to make one's self presentable, participating in an institution that colleagues mutually respect.

Wouldn't that be a good thing?

It just makes sense to me. Maybe part of the way I was brought up, I don't know.

I still remember this idiot who thought it would have been cool to come to our college grad ceremony dressed in khaki shorts and a tank top - the entire audience let out a very subdued applause when it was decided that he wasn't allowed to walk across the stage.


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## FishAlaska

CASHMONEY said:


> This kind of nonsense ???? Shooting used to be about fun and hitting the target........Now its a fashion show! its this kind of nonsense that turns off a lot of shooters whether pro or Joe.
> 
> I Would Understand if shoots were televised and shooters had multimillion dollar contracts But they dont.... But hey we can watch it on utube!
> I truelly believe that if I can make million dollar business deals in a button down shirt and blue jeans I should be able to shoot a piece of paper without a collar.
> 
> I know alot of guys that shy away from Organized competitive archery due the added cost of Dress codes (NFAA), Speed limits (ASA) Or lighter arrows ie SPEED (ibo).
> 
> SO which is better for Archery more rules or more Participants??


If I am not mistaken there are Pro shooters in the 7 digit income bracket. I thought that was a little much but I guess with salaries, endorsements, winnings, sponsor, and contingency monies it could be very possible and very likely is. That makes it even worse that they cant buy a pair of Dockers or slacks but some of the struggling new YOUNG Pros sure showed up decent. Professional pool players dont wear jeans to a match and they are comparable to our sport. They are televised also. We could get there but not with butt crack, untucked shirts that are too short, dirty ball caps looking like we rolled out from under a rock.


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## FishAlaska

FishAlaska said:


> If I am not mistaken there are Pro shooters in the 7 digit income bracket. I thought that was a little much but I guess with salaries, endorsements, winnings, sponsor, and contingency monies it could be very possible and very likely is. That makes it even worse that they cant buy a pair of Dockers or slacks but some of the struggling new YOUNG Pros sure showed up decent. Professional pool players dont wear jeans to a match and they are comparable to our sport. They are televised also. We could get there but not with butt crack, untucked shirts that are too short, dirty ball caps looking like we rolled out from under a rock.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I510 using Tapatalk


This is just my opinion shared by others.


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## FishAlaska

CASHMONEY said:


> Tom I find it quite commical that you see me as some kind of smelly unkept Country Bumpkin. probably as commical as me thinking of you as pompous....Well
> 
> As I remember it the man who done the most for this great sport done so in jeans a plaid wool jacket and an ol grey hat...I just believe that sometimes the Collective of Competitive organizations like to put themselves on a pedistal with no concern for drawing in the average joe achers involvement........I mean all this message board "press" about dress code really dont show well for the NFAA does it??


The average Joe archer doesnt have the dress code the Pros have. Dont forget, Pros dont have a stand alone venue. They cant survive without the amatuers showing up. If there was a Pro only event the payout would be very small and entry fees very high. Spectators would have to pay to view it. I dont know about you but I wouldnt pay to see some of them dressed like they were. My hat is off to the ones that put forth the effort willing or not to abide ny the rules. You are right...it doesnt show well for the NFAA...they need to work that out.


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## carlosii

FishAlaska said:


> I agree Tom but I believe the manufactures have some monetary pull in the NFAA. If you kick one of their pros off the line there might be issues. I personally say if you let your pro show up like this bad on you we dont want your money. *But there are politics in the NFAA* and it is all about money.
> 
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I510 using Tapatalk


politics in the NFAA?? surely you jest, sir!
and Pappa Bear wore jeans and flannels to HUNT in. when he was out selling the product or otherwise representing archery he wore dress slacks, a long sleeve shirt, and a bolo tie.

tournament archery is not huniting archery...two different venues.

btw, check out championship fishing..don't most of those guys dress pretty snazzy? and don't they have the money rollin' in?


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## FishAlaska

gcab said:


> What a joke. I am pretty sure I just saw pictures from the shoot that you run that shows a winner in jeans with at least 1 hole in them accepting his check. So that is allowed and isn't "bumpkin" like, but then you get on here and talk about people smelling because they have a pair of pants on that the modern generation finds fashionable? I would say the same about when the old folks ran around in bell bottoms.
> 
> For what it's worth, I am with you Chuck in that there should be some standard to attire. I personally think that a nice pair of jeans could look as good as a pair of slacks, but the rule is what the rule is and should be abided by. You can't and shouldn't be faulted for doing the job, and should be applauded for it. Different topic, but since the dress is part of a way to market the sport to the general public better, part of that will need to make sure the sport is exciting for viewers. It may have just been a trial thing, but the 4 judges, 3 one at a time, to walk back and forth for the pro shoot off was a bit crazy. The spectators anywhere around where I was sitting were not real happy about it as it took away too much time and excitment. Hopefully in the future that can be worked out to flow a bit faster.
> 
> Good job to the WAF and NFAA.


Yes that 3 judge deal was kindof crazy...it only takes a few min to walk the entire line and view targets and mark scores rather that doing each one a single at a time. Once the riff raff was eliminated I enjoyed the show. Awesome. As a first timer there overall, I liked the show. It just takes time to improve it.

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## FishAlaska

carlosii said:


> politics in the NFAA?? surely you jest, sir!
> and Pappa Bear wore jeans and flannels to HUNT in. when he was out selling the product or otherwise representing archery he wore dress slacks, a long sleeve shirt, and a bolo tie.
> 
> tournament archery is not huniting archery...two different venues.
> 
> btw, check out championship fishing..don't most of those guys dress pretty snazzy? and don't they have the money rollin' in?


Lol, did I say "politics"? My bad.


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## FV Chuck

FishAlaska said:


> Yes that 3 judge deal was kindof crazy...it only takes a few min to walk the entire line and view targets and mark scores rather that doing each one a single at a time. Once the riff raff was eliminated I enjoyed the show. Awesome. As a first timer there overall, I liked the show. It just takes time to improve it.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I510 using Tapatalk



Yeah we gotta finesse that one a tad. It was put in play so we didnt have an issue of calls and recalls on arrows...the goal was transparency. I think the result was good, but needs a tweak


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## field14

gcab said:


> What a joke. I am pretty sure I just saw pictures from the shoot that you run that shows a winner in jeans with at least 1 hole in them accepting his check. So that is allowed and isn't "bumpkin" like, but then you get on here and talk about people smelling because they have a pair of pants on that the modern generation finds fashionable? I would say the same about when the old folks ran around in bell bottoms.
> 
> For what it's worth, I am with you Chuck in that there should be some standard to attire. I personally think that a nice pair of jeans could look as good as a pair of slacks, but the rule is what the rule is and should be abided by. You can't and shouldn't be faulted for doing the job, and should be applauded for it. Different topic, but since the dress is part of a way to market the sport to the general public better, part of that will need to make sure the sport is exciting for viewers. It may have just been a trial thing, but the 4 judges, 3 one at a time, to walk back and forth for the pro shoot off was a bit crazy. The spectators anywhere around where I was sitting were not real happy about it as it took away too much time and excitment. Hopefully in the future that can be worked out to flow a bit faster.
> 
> Good job to the WAF and NFAA.


You fail to realize one HUGE difference between a "local" shoot and something the level of Vegas...those being the number of shooters (ours is MAX of 208 and no room for more), AND the "higher profile" of the Vegas shoot, being billed as the largest indoor tournament in the world. However, I might add that I was told (no, I did NOT verify it, since it really isn't any of my business) that the person you mention _may_ well have gotten the "riot act" from the SPONSOR concerning that issue of which you make mention; so it was duly noted by those with more control.

Another difference you are failing to acknowledge is that the Dress Code requirement for Vegas was _announced_ verbally and in writing and on the internet WELL IN ADVANCE, and in addition to that the card carrying "Pros" had agreed to that code months ago. Yet, "some" refused to comply and reniged on an agreement, and then "thumbed their noses" at it to boot and apparently continued to complain in front of some of the masses????
HUGE difference with regard to you comparison...apples to oranges, in fact.

I'm more for a "standard dress code" across the board for everyone, Pro and Joe alike; but it won't happen unless the Associations incorporate that into their modus operendi much like the WA (FITA)/NAA has done for many years. For a small tournament to go out on a limb and try it all by themselves wouldn't have any "teeth" to it at all.

Apparently progress was made the 2nd and 3rd days at Vegas THIS year...now we will have to see whether the dress code enforcement comes to better fruition at the NFAA Nationals, or if once again it goes over like a lead balloon.

field14 (Tom D.)


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## r49740

FV Chuck said:


> Yeah we gotta finesse that one a tad. It was put in play so we didnt have an issue of calls and recalls on arrows...the goal was transparency. I think the result was good, but needs a tweak


That would be great to have it finessed a bit. The reason was most likely sound, but took quite a bit of the excitement out of it. I'm sure you guys have heard that over and over at this point, especially during the second end when halfish of shooters didnt even walk to the targets until all the scoring was complete. I think that way of scoring would work great, but only if it is needed for a judgement call. Maybe have two or 3 bales next to each score arrows together like normal, and if they need a judge to call one, then use that system. Just a thought. Great job though


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## FishAlaska

field14 said:


> You fail to realize one HUGE difference between a "local" shoot and something the level of Vegas...those being the number of shooters (ours is MAX of 208 and no room for more), AND the "higher profile" of the Vegas shoot, being billed as the largest indoor tournament in the world. However, I might add that I was told (no, I did NOT verify it, since it really isn't any of my business) that the person you mention _may_ well have gotten the "riot act" from the SPONSOR concerning that issue of which you make mention; so it was duly noted by those with more control.
> 
> Another difference you are failing to acknowledge is that the Dress Code requirement for Vegas was _announced_ verbally and in writing and on the internet WELL IN ADVANCE, and in addition to that the card carrying "Pros" had agreed to that code months ago. Yet, "some" refused to comply and reniged on an agreement, and then "thumbed their noses" at it to boot and apparently continued to complain in front of some of the masses????
> HUGE difference with regard to you comparison...apples to oranges, in fact.
> 
> I'm more for a "standard dress code" across the board for everyone, Pro and Joe alike; but it won't happen unless the Associations incorporate that into their modus operendi much like the WA (FITA)/NAA has done for many years. For a small tournament to go out on a limb and try it all by themselves wouldn't have any "teeth" to it at all.
> 
> Apparently progress was made the 2nd and 3rd days at Vegas THIS year...now we will have to see whether the dress code enforcement comes to better fruition at the NFAA Nationals, or if once again it goes over like a lead balloon.
> 
> field14 (Tom D.)


Good point Tom...if the sponsors policed their shooters we would only have the non sponsored Pros to worry about and I dont think any of them were an issue. At least the few non sponsored shooters I saw were in dress code and one of them isnt an NFAA pro yet but still met the rule.

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## Rolo

FishAlaska said:


> Yes that 3 judge deal was kindof crazy...it only takes a few min to walk the entire line and view targets and mark scores rather that doing each one a single at a time. Once the riff raff was eliminated I enjoyed the show. Awesome. As a first timer there overall, I liked the show. It just takes time to improve it.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I510 using Tapatalk


Considering how it worked in the past...the 3 judge thing was a lot better IMO...at least in how it all played out.



FV Chuck said:


> Yeah we gotta finesse that one a tad. It was put in play so we didnt have an issue of calls and recalls on arrows...the goal was transparency. I think the result was good, but needs a tweak


Agree that a tweak may be needed, but not sure how it can be done and still accomplish the goal that was accomplished this year. Maybe, it is convincing the judges that they really don't have to appear to look that close at an arrow when it can be called from the line. :wink: But that too could be problematic.

As long as the shoot-off is as large as it is, I don't see a way to tweak it for efficiency. The same 3 judges need to call all the arrows...


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## FishAlaska

Rolo said:


> Considering how it worked in the past...the 3 judge thing was a lot better IMO...at least in how it all played out.
> 
> 
> 
> Agree that a tweak may be needed, but not sure how it can be done and still accomplish the goal that was accomplished this year. Maybe, it is convincing the judges that they really don't have to appear to look that close at an arrow when it can be called from the line. :wink: But that too could be problematic.
> 
> As long as the shoot-off is as large as it is, I don't see a way to tweak it for efficiency. The same 3 judges need to call all the arrows...


I agree but each can walk the whole row and annotate on paper then all walk back to compare and announce all scores at once instead of doing that process for each target. You get the same affect of three judges opinions but you get it all at once instead of individually. Example...three judges approach target and all look and annotate at the same time without discussing..then move to next and do the same then so on and so on. Then all walk back and compare. Make corrections and announce scores all at once.

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## Rolo

FishAlaska said:


> I agree but each can walk the whole row and annotate on paper then all walk back to compare and announce all scores at once instead of doing that process for each target. You get the same affect of three judges opinions but you get it all at once instead of individually. Example...three judges approach target and all look and annotate at the same time without discussing..then move to next and do the same then so on and so on. Then all walk back and compare. Make corrections and announce scores all at once.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I510 using Tapatalk


Agree...but also see the possibilities of the scores, and which target they belong to getting out of whack...did you see the problem that was created by the LD shoot-off? Maybe that was more of understanding the rules, or lack of it...but at least they admitted the mistake and corrected it...


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## FishAlaska

Rolo said:


> Agree...but also see the possibilities of the scores, and which target they belong to getting out of whack...did you see the problem that was created by the LD shoot-off? Maybe that was more of understanding the rules, or lack of it...but at least they admitted the mistake and corrected it...


Yes they did and good on them. I think the shooters thought it would stay inside out until someone actually achieved it but instead they went closest to center. They corrected it and admitted the error. I actually thought it would take longer for an inside out x than it did...wow that was like his second shot! Not easy to do with a big shaft like that. Just shows the skill these shooters have.

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## Pete53

*dress code*

this is an easy problem to solve for pro`s and all the other classes" anyone who follows the dress code rules of the NFAA will be awarded ten points per day of the tournament ". I bet with a rigit rule like this it would be followed and enforced then.this is a sneaky way of getting it done! Pete53


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## FishAlaska

Pete53 said:


> this is an easy problem to solve for pro`s and all the other classes" anyone who follows the dress code rules of the NFAA will be awarded ten points per day of the tournament ". I bet with a rigit rule like this it would be followed and enforced then.this is a sneaky way of getting it done! Pete53


Yes...we reward them for following the rules they agreed too!

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## 60Xbulldog60X

Maybe if you get yourself in that position then you will see the importance of having the arrows called correctly. There have been problems with calling in the past and this process eliminates those problems. I didn't see anyone getting up and leaving the stands because of the process. As far as riff raff, have you ever made the shootoff???????? You apparently don't realize the accomplishment of just making the shootoff. 1800 shooters total at the event and only 18 900's. That's 1% of the field. Hows that for riff raff??????????? Needless to say, it is not an easy task at hand. Just saying!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



FishAlaska said:


> Yes that 3 judge deal was kindof crazy...it only takes a few min to walk the entire line and view targets and mark scores rather that doing each one a single at a time. Once the riff raff was eliminated I enjoyed the show. Awesome. As a first timer there overall, I liked the show. It just takes time to improve it.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I510 using Tapatalk


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## FishAlaska

60Xbulldog60X said:


> Maybe if you get yourself in that position then you will see the importance of having the arrows called correctly. There have been problems with calling in the past and this process eliminates those problems. I didn't see anyone getting up and leaving the stands because of the process. As far as riff raff, have you ever made the shootoff???????? You apparently don't realize the accomplishment of just making the shootoff. 1800 shooters total at the event and only 18 900's. That's 1% of the field. Hows that for riff raff??????????? Needless to say, it is not an easy task at hand. Just saying!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


If you were there, you saw and heard the profanity and disrespect for the rules at a family oriented event unless you took part in it. The riff raff I am referring too, bring discredit and validity questions to anyone wishing to market our Pros ...no matter how well they shot. They lost much respect from the spectators in my opinion. I mentioned I was a spectator and this is one spectators view, shared by many. I feel bad for the Pros that act like Pros and have no need to speak trash about a rule or process, their shooting speaks for itself. I am proud of them, there were many present. The winner being one of them....good on him. As far as scoring goes, if you read, you would see that keeping the three judges is agreed upon...the way they score could go quicker for both the shooters and the spectators if they all viewed the target at once instead of individually then reporting. You still get three views. BTW, do you feel that using profanity and verbally expressing your unwillingness to follow rules in front of spectators and fellow Pros is acceptable and professional? I am curious.

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## field14

FishAlaska said:


> If you were there, _you saw and heard the profanity and disrespect for the rules at a family oriented event unless you took part in it. The riff raff I am referring too, bring discredit and validity questions to anyone wishing to market our Pros ...no matter how well they shot._ They lost much respect from the spectators in my opinion. I mentioned I was a spectator and this is one spectators view, shared by many. I feel bad for the Pros that act like Pros and have no need to speak trash about a rule or process, their shooting speaks for itself. I am proud of them, there were many present. The winner being one of them....good on him. As far as scoring goes, if you read, you would see that keeping the three judges is agreed upon...the way they score could go quicker for both the shooters and the spectators if they all viewed the target at once instead of individually then reporting. You still get three views. BTW, do you feel that using profanity and verbally expressing your unwillingness to follow rules in front of spectators and fellow Pros is acceptable and professional? I am curious.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I510 using Tapatalk


With reference to above in red. There is also a "CODE OF ETHICS" that deals with this situation. The situation with the profanity and "trash" talk would seem to be a violation. That series of witnessed violations should have been reported, giving names and what was said, to the authorities. Since it was a "family oriented event", those violations needed to be dealt with. "They" won't stop until somebody plants their foot down on 'em.

field14 (Tom D.)


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## FishAlaska

field14 said:


> With reference to above in red. There is also a "CODE OF ETHICS" that deals with this situation. The situation with the profanity and "trash" talk would seem to be a violation. That series of witnessed violations should have been reported, giving names and what was said, to the authorities. Since it was a "family oriented event", those violations needed to be dealt with. "They" won't stop until somebody plants their foot down on 'em.
> 
> field14 (Tom D.)


Tom I am certain they were policed by their fellow Pros. Chuck seemed to be aware of them. Like I said, I was a spectator so dont know all of them and there could have been some that were not NFAA pros but for sure some were. It is all good, it is over and the NFAA has handled it. I am proud of all the winners, most are a great group so I dont want to spoil the rest.


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## field14

On to the NFAA Indoor Nationals.
I wonder how many will be in the shootoff after shooting 120X 600's...in Men's AND in Women's AND in Seniors.

This one could be something to watch, for sure.


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## FishAlaska

field14 said:


> On to the NFAA Indoor Nationals.
> I wonder how many will be in the shootoff after shooting 120X 600's...in Men's AND in Women's AND in Seniors.
> 
> This one could be something to watch, for sure.


Yes indeed....I will be going to Redding but I sure would like to see that show down. More arrows and more focus! It will be a good one for sure. Redemption will be in order. I love watching the Seniors.

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## 60Xbulldog60X

FishAlaska said:


> If you were there, you saw and heard the profanity and disrespect for the rules at a family oriented event unless you took part in it. The riff raff I am referring too, bring discredit and validity questions to anyone wishing to market our Pros ...no matter how well they shot. They lost much respect from the spectators in my opinion. I mentioned I was a spectator and this is one spectators view, shared by many. I feel bad for the Pros that act like Pros and have no need to speak trash about a rule or process, their shooting speaks for itself. I am proud of them, there were many present. The winner being one of them....good on him. As far as scoring goes, if you read, you would see that keeping the three judges is agreed upon...the way they score could go quicker for both the shooters and the spectators if they all viewed the target at once instead of individually then reporting. You still get three views. BTW, do you feel that using profanity and verbally expressing your unwillingness to follow rules in front of spectators and fellow Pros is acceptable and professional? I am curious.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I510 using Tapatalk


The profanity and unwillingness to follow rules is absolutely unacceptable. Did not realize that's where the riff raff was intended. Sorry for the confusion. As far as the scoring quicker, after the first couple of ends the process did seem to go a bit faster due to the judges getting used to the process. It seemed to be fast enough after the first couple of ends and didn't cause too much delay. I think the judges just needed to get into the swing of the process.


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## goodgrief

I would like to see the ability of archers in the flights to get more than 1 judges rulings on arrows .

On the first bale in the Free style unlimited flights , one archer shot 300 , 300 , 299 . The last arrow was the one the judge ruled on and spent a couple minutes looking at it . It was an important arrow for him and was a $600 swing from 2nd place to 4th.

Then to have three judges for the Pro's .... unfair in my opinion.


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## Mike2787

60xbulldog60x...Congrats on being one of the 1%. Makes me want to put up a tent and protest you. :smile: 

Only during the shoot-off did the pros have more than one judge. During the regular competition, we were at the mercy of one judge also.

As far as the dress code is concerned, I was glad to see so many of my fellow pros represent themselves as true ambassadors of our sport and respectful of their competition. Those that did not choose to honor the dress code stuck out like a sore thumb and it is my hope that they got the message and will join the rest of us and leave the denim for after the last arrow.


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## FishAlaska

Mike2787 said:


> 60xbulldog60x...Congrats on being one of the 1%. Makes me want to put up a tent and protest you. :smile:
> 
> Only during the shoot-off did the pros have more than one judge. During the regular competition, we were at the mercy of one judge also.
> 
> As far as the dress code is concerned, I was glad to see so many of my fellow pros represent themselves as true ambassadors of our sport and respectful of their competition. Those that did not choose to honor the dress code stuck out like a sore thumb and it is my hope that they got the message and will join the rest of us and leave the denim for after the last arrow.


Good post....I agree.


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## FishAlaska

60Xbulldog60X said:


> The profanity and unwillingness to follow rules is absolutely unacceptable. Did not realize that's where the riff raff was intended. Sorry for the confusion. As far as the scoring quicker, after the first couple of ends the process did seem to go a bit faster due to the judges getting used to the process. It seemed to be fast enough after the first couple of ends and didn't cause too much delay. I think the judges just needed to get into the swing of the process.


No problem at all. 

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## gcab

60Xbulldog60X said:


> Maybe if you get yourself in that position then you will see the importance of having the arrows called correctly. There have been problems with calling in the past and this process eliminates those problems. I didn't see anyone getting up and leaving the stands because of the process. As far as riff raff, have you ever made the shootoff???????? You apparently don't realize the accomplishment of just making the shootoff. 1800 shooters total at the event and only 18 900's. That's 1% of the field. Hows that for riff raff??????????? Needless to say, it is not an easy task at hand. Just saying!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!





Just because someone didn't make the cut doesn't mean they don't realize the importance of having arrows called correctly. I noticed G. Poole didn't make the cut, but I am pretty sure he knows the value of correct calls(only used his name since he has a presence on this site). I agree with what Chuck said, that tweaks need to be made. Not sure why so seemingly upset about that, as again, half the pros didn't even walk to the targets after the first end until they were allowed to pull them. The whole dress code conversation is based on how to get archery more marketable. Do you really think that it is more marketable when it takes that long to call three arrows per archer? Do the pros that shot in the shoot off really not know what is in or out well enough to judge it themselves with 1 or 2 others in the shoot off and then call a judge or 3 for a call if its needed? The downtime with the scoring was a joke, and there were plenty of people angry about it, including a pro that sat in front of me for it that posted on this very thread.


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## FishAlaska

gcab said:


> Just because someone didn't make the cut doesn't mean they don't realize the importance of having arrows called correctly. I noticed G. Poole didn't make the cut, but I am pretty sure he knows the value of correct calls(only used his name since he has a presence on this site). I agree with what Chuck said, that tweaks need to be made. Not sure why so seemingly upset about that, as again, half the pros didn't even walk to the targets after the first end until they were allowed to pull them. The whole dress code conversation is based on how to get archery more marketable. Do you really think that it is more marketable when it takes that long to call three arrows per archer? Do the pros that shot in the shoot off really not know what is in or out well enough to judge it themselves with 1 or 2 others in the shoot off and then call a judge or 3 for a call if its needed? The downtime with the scoring was a joke, and there were plenty of people angry about it, including a pro that sat in front of me for it that posted on this very thread.


You said it better than I could. I couldnt even get out of my seat to get a drink or a ticket for the giveaway during the down time, I was stuck in the middle of a row....lol. A little tweaking is all. I am sure they will take a look.


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## r49740

FishAlaska said:


> You said it better than I could. I couldnt even get out of my seat to get a drink or a ticket for the giveaway during the down time, I was stuck in the middle of a row....lol. A little tweaking is all. I am sure they will take a look.
> 
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I510 using Tapatalk


I agree. Just too long, but underlying idea was good. I would think they could follow that procedure if an archer needs one called. If they are clearly in or clearly out, why the need to have 3 judges look at it? But if it is a close one, the process could be good.


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## FishAlaska

r49740 said:


> I agree. Just too long, but underlying idea was good. I would think they could follow that procedure if an archer needs one called. If they are clearly in or clearly out, why the need to have 3 judges look at it? But if it is a close one, the process could be good.


Right and the way they all shoot....I bet they didnt have much question. Probably could score most by walking by. Awesome group of shooters...all of them in the championship class! That inside out shot on the LD continuation was absolutely incredible. I thought it would take a few rallies. NOPE!

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## rodney482

Easy fellas,,, we are all friends here..

We can have a difference of opinion without the name calling.


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## field14

rodney482 said:


> Easy fellas,,, we are all friends here..
> 
> We can have a difference of opinion without the name calling.


Rodney...
I wonder what definition the person doing the name calling gives to some "professionals" that apparentely, as reported used VULGARITIES numerous times well within earshot of the people in the stands and created a "fuss", in what could be considered a violation of the "Code of Ethics"... "reportedly", that is.
If I'm a "jerk" and why archery isn't getting anywhere...then oh, my...I wonder what classification for this kind of conduct in a public place during a Professional event, by a "professional" the person calling me a "jerk" gives? 

Oh, but wait....using vulgarity in public and disrupting the shooting of others, along with other "disturbances" on the shooting line in the competitive environment, is now acceptable practice in some "circles"...and a "Code of Ethics" doesn't exist?

Just sayin'......

field14 (Tom D.)


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## reesetee1

Coming from somebody that wants to be a Pro someday...A dress code is simply making the sport less heyseed and more professional....IMHO...I believe that if you want the part you must look the part! So after talking to Chuck about it...I will be wearing Khakis a collared shirt. When I used to be a Martial Arts judge you used to have to wear a blue dress coat with dress pants. That is a far cry, from just looking presentable and professional!! Kudos to you wanting to make the sport more "Professional!!" And kudos to those that make me want to be just like them!!


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## FishAlaska

field14 said:


> Rodney...
> I wonder what definition the person doing the name calling gives to some "professionals" that apparentely, as reported used VULGARITIES numerous times well within earshot of the people in the stands and created a "fuss", in what could be considered a violation of the "Code of Ethics"... "reportedly", that is.
> If I'm a "jerk" and why archery isn't getting anywhere...then oh, my...I wonder what classification for this kind of conduct in a public place during a Professional event, by a "professional" the person calling me a "jerk" gives?
> 
> Oh, but wait....using vulgarity in public and disrupting the shooting of others, along with other "disturbances" on the shooting line in the competitive environment, is now acceptable practice in some "circles"...and a "Code of Ethics" doesn't exist?
> 
> Just sayin'......
> 
> field14 (Tom D.)


I must have missed the name calling.


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## FV Chuck

FishAlaska said:


> I must have missed the name calling.


It was removed....

play nice or you cant play here


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## Wilde

Chuck; Last Post - Enough Said - Thank You

Dee Wilde


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## FishAlaska

FV Chuck said:


> It was removed....
> 
> play nice or you cant play here


Chuck. Do you think having the major sponsors involved will help the issue. I know if we had buy in from the sponsors to police their staff and not stand for vulgar behavior/conduct it may humble the violators into either apologizing for their behavior or eliminating it completely due to risking financial support.

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## FV Chuck

I'm sure there are plenty of things that could be done....

Ultimately we could all just be adults, follow the rules and I could move on to something important like finding non endemic sponsorship money.

Can you tell I'm growing weary of talking about pants?..

Next question please..


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## FishAlaska

FV Chuck said:


> I'm sure there are plenty of things that could be done....
> 
> Ultimately we could all just be adults, follow the rules and I could move on to something important like finding non endemic sponsorship money.
> 
> Can you tell I'm growing weary of talking about pants?..
> 
> Next question please..


Ya I think this could go on forever and probably will. Hopefully the spectators and sponsors understand and I know you are doing what you can. 

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## FV Chuck

I hope one day soon it's not even a second or third thought in peoples minds....

I want them thinking about how cool it was to just watch someone win 50K shooting arrows on a big rock star stage


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## FishAlaska

FV Chuck said:


> I hope one day soon it's not even a second or third thought in peoples minds....
> 
> I want them thinking about how cool it was to just watch someone win 50K shooting arrows on a big rock star stage


I agree

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## FishAlaska

FV Chuck said:


> I hope one day soon it's not even a second or third thought in peoples minds....
> 
> I want them thinking about how cool it was to just watch someone win 50K shooting arrows on a big rock star stage


Next stop....Indoor Nationals, I want to see Jesse, Levi, George, Reo, Tim, and Braden in another showdown!


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## field14

FishAlaska said:


> Next stop....Indoor Nationals, I want to see Jesse, Levi, George, Reo, Tim, and Braden in another showdown!
> 
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I510 using Tapatalk


Think there will be a lot more than just those guys in the shoot-off! It could well be a dandy...although....there are 120 arrows in this tournament and also a bit more room to get "sloppy" or complacent, ha. To me, now being in my later years, I find the accuracy and consistency of these shooters to be absolutely awesome!

Cannot miss the "X"...or you get nuthin'? OMG.


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## clayshooter08

Guys I work in the golf industry and let me tell you if a MALE PRO shows up in shorts he will not play period. Just look at the MASTERS the caddies have to wear a white pullover, what golf pro would say NO I'm not playing the Masters because I want to wear shorts, wouldn't happen, to much respect for the game....lets get some of that for our sport....I totally respect this move being a new shooter, I want to get good enough to have to wear certain clothes. We, like "ALL" sports, are a money driven sport or there wouldn't be any tournaments period. Sponsors are constantly looking for ways to market their products in and outside the industry and the people or organizations that do that get the $$$$ it's that simple. Chuck even being a new shooter I will be dressed appropiately whenever and wherever I shoot. I have been involved in professional golf since birth and my father as well!!! My .02 worth.....The word "PROFESSIONAL" has responsibilities and consequences....

New Guy's Opinion!


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