# Desperate for consistency...



## Destroyer (Sep 11, 2009)

Lots of things could be causing it, could be that your not balanced, draw length, etc. Is there any pattern to the bad shots?


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## da white shoe (Mar 10, 2009)

You are correct... consistancy is everything in shooting a bow accurately! Learning to shoot a bow the correct way is pretty tough when you're just starting out and no one around you knows anything about it. I went for years and years doing it the *wrong* way! Unfortunately, most people learn to shoot a bow the wrong way. Shooting a bow the wrong way is fun too, just not nearly AS fun! And it will someday lead to frustration and disappointment. It is a lot harder to re-learn how to shoot a bow than it is to just learn it correctly from the beginning. Believe me! This is some of the things that I would've loved to have known when I was just starting out. Learn to shoot a bow this way, even with inexpensive equipment, and you'll be shooting better than most of the guys with the top of the line stuff! So, here you go....

If you had a deer rifle at the range, bench rested over sandbags and you were trying to hit a 3" spot at 300 yards, my guess is you would seldom, if ever hit it unless the shot took you by surprise. The minute you try to control the trigger on that rifle, that 3" spot is going to be pretty safe. Bows are different, in that we can't bench them down to shoot. We have to physically hold the weight of the bowstring back at full draw, yet, at the same time we have to find a way for the bow to launch the arrow while introducing the least amount of influence on that shot with our muscles and minds. Your mind is always going to be faster than your reflexes. The best way to eliminate human error when shooting a bow is by using correct form, a back tension shot and a surprise release.

Before drawing the bow, position your hand on the grip and start pulling with your release hand to put pressure on the string. You are trying to find the exact spot for your bow hand to be in on the grip. You want to feel all of the pressure from the bow at one point on your bow hand when you're at full draw. Pretend there is a steel rod running parallel and exactly between the two bones in your forearm. Where that rod would exit your palm is where this point is. If you find this spot, it will help keep you from torquing the bow handle. Your hand needs to be touching the grip in the exact same spot... every shot. A vertical, thin handle is much better to have than a fat, round one. You may want to just take the grip off your bow and wrap the handle section with tennis racket tape. I have done this with bows that had a rounded grip and it makes a huge difference! Also, if you will rotate the bottom of your bow hand away from the bow a few degrees for your grip, you will clear a path for the bowstring and negate torque at the same time. Learn to find your grip before you draw the bow on every shot, but once you start your draw, do not move your bow hand AT ALL.

At full draw, your release hand as well as your bow hand, should be completely relaxed. You don't want to be grasping or squeezing the barrel of the release or the grip of your bow handle. Also, do not force either of your hands open. Your fingers should be hanging limp and relaxed. I lightly touch my first finger and my thumb together around the bow handle, but some people use a wrist sling. Use the bones in your arms and the muscles in your back to hold as much of the weight of the bow at full draw as you can. Relax every muscle in your arms that you don't need to use to stay at full draw. That goes for the muscles in your shoulders, torso and legs, too. Remember; tension in your muscles is what causes your sights to wobble and jump around. If you can learn to relax everything that isn't needed to hold at full draw, your sight pins will barely even move. It is very important that your bow is set at the correct draw length. If it is too long, you will have a very hard time relaxing fully.

*1. Form... *Stand with your feet shoulder width apart, equal weight on both feet, slightly facing the target. A line drawn straight from the target to you should have the big toe of your forward foot just touching this line... and the heel of your rearward foot just touching that same line. At full draw, stand with your head held straight up... don't lean with your torso or tip your head to the side or forward. Your draw length is very important! If you have to draw the bow too far back, it will throw everything else you do off. The string should just touch the tip of your nose, with the nock directly under your eye. Anchor with your thumb under your lower jaw and the V created by the junction of your thumb and trigger finger locked behind the L of the back of your jawbone.

*2. Back tension... *Adjust your release so that the 2nd pad back from the tip of your finger is curled over the trigger. Don't use the tip of your finger. It is too sensitive and easy to move. Put as much pressure on the trigger as you can without making it fire and then squeeze just your back muscles until it goes off. Do not move your trigger finger at all. Your entire arm becomes the "trigger finger". That's why it's important to keep the release free-floating from your wrist to the string. The trigger is set off by flexing or squeezing the muscles of your back so that your shoulder blades are trying to touch, not by moving your finger. To find the right muscles to use, have someone stand facing you while you pretend to hold a bow at full draw. Have them grasp your elbows and try to force you to give them a hug while you resist, all the while keeping your arms relaxed. The back muscles you feel resisting are the ones you need to flex to make the release fire. 

*3. Shooting using a surprise release... *reach full draw with perfect T form... meaning that your upper body forms a T shape with your shoulders and arms. Next, line up your bubble level... your bow needs to be perfectly vertical... pick the right pin and center it all in the peep. Then, move your whole upper body to get on target. You don't want to just move your arm up and down or side to side. That introduces torque in your grip and throws the arrow to the sides when you shoot. At full draw, your upper body and arms should at all times form a perfect T shape. When everything is lined up, start consciously relaxing muscles. Hold the bow back with your back muscles. Start with relaxing your hands and work your way up your arms and through the shoulders. When you've shot this way enough, you won't have to even think about this step. Then go into aiming mode. Your full concentration switches to the spot and only the spot. The pin is blurry and it will still seem to float around the spot, but you need to forget about the pin. You will naturally try to keep it on the spot without even thinking about it. You should be focusing on the spot and nothing else. Keep your concentration while slowly squeezing through the shot, making sure to follow through after the release. The first few times the bow goes off, it will scare the heck out of you. Keep at it! You will get used to it and it's important to never be able to anticipate the shot. Focus... concentrate on the spot you want to hit and just squeeze through until the shot breaks.

*4. The follow through.... *When you "follow through" after the bow goes off, keep your T form until you hear the arrow hit, do not drop your bow arm or move your head, stay relaxed and let the bow go where it wants to with out grabbing it. This is where a stabilizer comes into play. It will force the bow into falling the same way every time. Good follow through takes a lot of practice. 

It's tempting to just go right out and try all of this on a target at 20 yards, but DON'T DO IT! When you start trying all of this for the first time, it is very important, and it will speed up the learning process... if you completely eliminate the aiming part of shooting the bow. Work on relaxation and a surprise release before you ever have to worry about aiming. You need to ingrain the feel of the shot process so that it becomes automatic... as in the term, "muscle memory." You do this with your eyes closed at first. Your target needs to be at the same height as your arrow. I hang my target from a rafter and stand close, so that the tip of my arrow is about 3 1/2 feet away from the target at full draw. After you reach full draw and have lined everything up, close your eyes, relax and think through every step of the shot. After that is comfortable, use a target with a spot, but start close... 5 yards or so. Work your way out to 20 yards over the coarse of a couple weeks, at least.

In my first years with a compound bow, I felt that I needed to "shoot the bow." Instead, I came to the conclusion that I needed to let the bow shoot itself! To just stay out of the way and allow the arrow to leave the bow with no outside influences working against it... namely me! After all, if my bow was being shot out of a shooting machine... the arrows would all be going in the same hole! Just that little bit of attitude adjustment, that little change in my approach to shooting, was all that it took to get my mind right. You will be much more accurate and have a lot more fun shooting this way! I guarantee it! Shooting in this way is truly amazing! It defies logic, really, and at some point while learning this method, you will know you are doing it right because your arrows will keep going dead center of the bull's-eye... even when you know the pin was not on the spot at the time your bow went off! 

I hope this will all help in some way... remember to keep it fun though, however you decide to shoot a bow!

Good luck, Zane


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## mike 66 (Jan 21, 2010)

AWESOME .............. post by the white shoe THAT TOOK SOME TIME YOU SHOULD THANK HIM.......


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## JFW (Feb 22, 2012)

Yes, thank you White Shoe! Wow, I'm gonna have to print that out and really take some time to study and think about all of that. So should I do the back tension method you wrote about even with a wrist strap release? I wish I could find a good coach around here for a few sessions...


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## JFW (Feb 22, 2012)

Destroyer-

More often than not, the misses go to the left of where I'm aiming and sometimes up and to the left.


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## Simpleiowaguy (Jan 10, 2011)

Make sure that you aren't dropping your bow to quick on the shot. Try to hold it until you hear it hit the target. Form and consistency are crucial. I think that just shooting a couple times a week will be fine. You will be consistent by the time that seasn hits


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## da white shoe (Mar 10, 2009)

JFW said:


> Yes, thank you White Shoe! Wow, I'm gonna have to print that out and really take some time to study and think about all of that.* So should I do the back tension method you wrote about even with a wrist strap release? *I wish I could find a good coach around here for a few sessions...




Yes, I would recommend at least trying to master it. If nothing else, just starting out, you can use the basics like correct draw length, the grip, back tension, anchor, stance, muscle relaxation and follow through to at least be on the right track. Shooting really well with a surprise release depends a lot on how well you can master muscle relaxation at full draw. Besides shooting a bow that fits you perfectly, relaxation will be the deciding factor. Do not forget to start close, without having to aim.

How you aim can depend on eye dominance strength, so what you see at full draw, (if you have to close one eye), may be different than what I see with both of my eyes open. Either way, I would strongly urge you to focus on the target when aiming and forget about how much the pin is moving. Concentration is a funny thing... if you are trying to watch the pin for movement, you won't be aiming. 

What I wrote in my original post describes how I shoot a bow. I am a hunter and I use a wrist strap-index finger triggered release exclusivly. This method is a little bit easier to *learn* using a back tension release though... just because it makes it harder to cheat. However, that doesn't mean that you can't learn this with your wrist strap. Anymore, I only use a back tension release to reinforce what a good shot should feel like. If I feel myself trying to manipulate the trigger or anticipating the shot, I can spend a half hour with it on a hanging target, eyes closed and be right back where I should be. 

The vast majority of hunters are timing their trigger pull to their perception of the pin crossing the target. Sometimes it works very well, but I don't believe it's the best way to shoot a compound bow with sights. There is more than one way to shoot though. Some ways are better than others. If you decide that you just have to move your finger to trigger the shot because the surprise release won't work for you, at least use a smooth squeeze. If you can avoid target panic and you can master the rest of the basics... you'll still be shooting well.


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## JFW (Feb 22, 2012)

Hmmm......alright. This is a lot to process, but I thank you very much White Shoe. Looks like I've got a lot to learn and practice! The part where you talk about shooting at a target close up and getting the feel right...did you do that until your shots were hitting the same spot every time, then move back? I don't know why I never thought of that, but that's what we FNG's have the guru's like you for. 

JFW


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## da white shoe (Mar 10, 2009)

JFW said:


> Hmmm......alright. This is a lot to process, but I thank you very much White Shoe. Looks like I've got a lot to learn and practice! The part where you talk about shooting at a target close up and getting the feel right...did you do that until your shots were hitting the same spot every time, then move back? I don't know why I never thought of that, but that's what we FNG's have the guru's like you for.
> 
> JFW


No, the arrows point of impact doesn't matter. You're just trying to get a feel for everything you're doing... your grip, anchor, using back tension to release the arrow and making a complete followthrough... you only imagine aiming with the close target. It is a lot to try to do at the same time and aiming just confuses everything. That is why we start out working on one thing at a time, with your eyes closed. Leave aiming out of it. Do it that way and you'll get through it.

Once you feel confident that you're getting a surprise release while doing everything else correctly, step off 5 yards and do it all with a spot target. It's at this point that you have to put it all together... correct form while aiming at the same time. Don't be too picky about where the arrow is going at first. *The objective is to totally focus on the spot and make the shot happen while using corrct form, not where the arrow hits.* Your sight pin will be moving... don't try to stop it. Once the pin is centered in your sight picture... forget about it! Just remain relaxed and focus on the spot. The unconscience mind will keep the pin moving to the spot without having to think about it. Your conscience mind has to be totally focused on the spot. If you get distracted, let down and start over.

At the point where you feel you could hit a quarter every time... while doing everything correctly, move to 10 yards and use a smaller spot to aim at.


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## tpcowfish (Aug 11, 2008)

Tnx for taking the time, Da white shoe, to help others out, very imformative


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## Destroyer (Sep 11, 2009)

JFW said:


> More often than not, the misses go to the left of where I'm aiming and sometimes up and to the left.


Always eliminate 'the easy to alter' issues first. Check for fletching collisions with the rest, cable guards, etc, due to poor setup or torquing the bow.


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## JFW (Feb 22, 2012)

Da White Shoe-
Ok, so I got a chance to shoot a little yesterday. I followed your advice. Set up at about 5 feet and did my best to follow all the steps you laid out. I think I found the spot on my hand you talked about, I was able to relax my body, etc. After about 45 minutes I started shooting with my eyes open and I was able to get groups of four in a space about the size of a mason jar lid. I know you said quarter, so I'm not moving back yet!  My question now is about the back tension release. I've found that if I tense both sides of my back it pulls my bow hand to the left, so I've just been tensing the right side of my back. Is that a problem? How do you tense both sides and not have anything move around? Thanks for everything so far!


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## da white shoe (Mar 10, 2009)

JFW said:


> Da White Shoe-
> Ok, so I got a chance to shoot a little yesterday. I followed your advice. Set up at about 5 feet and did my best to follow all the steps you laid out. I think I found the spot on my hand you talked about, I was able to relax my body, etc. After about 45 minutes I started shooting with my eyes open and I was able to get groups of four in a space about the size of a mason jar lid. I know you said quarter, so I'm not moving back yet!  My question now is about the back tension release. I've found that if I tense both sides of my back it pulls my bow hand to the left, so I've just been tensing the right side of my back. Is that a problem? How do you tense both sides and not have anything move around? Thanks for everything so far!


Opps! Yeah, I should have explained that better. The right side does most of the work. You are doing it correctly... if you are right handed. You are, right? 
Being able to hit a quarter sized target on every shot is just a good indication that you're ready to step back a little. Stick a quarter-sized piece of duct tape or something to your target and try to really fine tune your aiming process before you step off 5 more yards. I would only shoot one arrow at a time at that distance... arrows are expensive! Either that, or you can use more than one piece of tape on the target.

Just so you know what you're striving for; a really good, 5 arrow hunting group would be as follows.... 2" at 20 yards, 3" at 30 yards, 4" at 40, 5" at 50 and so on.

This early in the game, your accuracy is not nearly as important as using the correct shot process. Make sure you're doing everything right, consistantly before you step back. I know it's boring but, if you shoot too far, too quickly, what typically happens is that you get way too caught up in accuracy and forget what you're trying to accomplish.


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## JFW (Feb 22, 2012)

Ahhh, ok. lol Well thank you for clearing that up.  Another question...you mentioned going through the shot process with eyes closed. How do I ensure that the bow is level like that? Is there something I'm supposed to feel? Or does it matter that much right now? As usual, thanks!


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## rossing6 (Jun 7, 2008)

Something that might help is if you had someone take a few pictures of you from both the side at full draw and from the rear. Draw length and form is very important and the guys helping you could give you a lot better feed back with a few pics for reference. You'll never get the back tension really dialed with improper draw length, and that takes a bit of experimenting anyway...back tension is a method of using the larger back muscles to hold and pull through a shot rather than just stop pulling once the cams roll over to the full let-off position...pulling with just arm muscles is just that pulling. Getting the front shoulder out and down with the draw length fitted and getting things lined up bow hand to draw elbow tip will then allow you to transition the holding weight to the back muscles and pull through in a direct line away from the arrow direction which shouldn't pull the bow in any direction...it's not a hard pull, just a firm steadying action, enough to allow the drawing arm, wrist to relax and just be a continuous inline connection to the string. Between the elbow tip and the bow hand, everything should be neutral and allowed to pull into alignment with no torque...not trying to confuse things, but the pictures would speak volumes and get you on track much faster. Cheers


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## da white shoe (Mar 10, 2009)

rossing6 said:


> Something that might help is if you had someone take a few pictures of you from both the side at full draw and from the rear. Draw length and form is very important and the guys helping you could give you a lot better feed back with a few pics for reference. You'll never get the back tension really dialed with improper draw length, and that takes a bit of experimenting anyway...back tension is a method of using the larger back muscles to hold and pull through a shot rather than just stop pulling once the cams roll over to the full let-off position...pulling with just arm muscles is just that pulling. Getting the front shoulder out and down with the draw length fitted and getting things lined up bow hand to draw elbow tip will then allow you to transition the holding weight to the back muscles and pull through in a direct line away from the arrow direction which shouldn't pull the bow in any direction...it's not a hard pull, just a firm steadying action, enough to allow the drawing arm, wrist to relax and just be a continuous inline connection to the string. Between the elbow tip and the bow hand, everything should be neutral and allowed to pull into alignment with no torque...not trying to confuse things, but the pictures would speak volumes and get you on track much faster. Cheers


All very true. Draw length needs to be adjusted within 1/4 of an inch if you want to reach your potential using back tension... and top shooters like it closer than that. Just starting out, you are going to have to have someone that knows what they're looking at check your draw length. Pictures on AT would get you very close and after that, you will need someone with you to fine tune it.

And to answer your question, JFW... barring a situation where you're trying to fix some part of your form, shooting eyes closed is just the first step for the newbee to get aquainted with using *back tension*, *relaxation* and the *surprise release *. Those three things. Use it that way and then move on... when you are feeling comfortable doing it. Getting the bow level is one of the steps of the aiming process.... worry about that when your eyes are open.


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## JFW (Feb 22, 2012)

da white shoe,

Ahh, ok. I guess I should look into getting the draw length on my bow shortened a little. I thought you measured draw length from furthest tips of our fingers with your arms in a T, divided by 2.5. No? By that method, my draw length is ~29.6" and my bow is set to 30". 

I think right now my biggest problem is finding the spot on my bow hand that won't make me torque to the left when I shoot. I'm trying to visualize what you wrote about, but can't seem to find it. Any other suggestions? Thanks for everything so far.

JFW


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## da white shoe (Mar 10, 2009)

JFW said:


> da white shoe,
> 
> Ahh, ok. I guess I should look into getting the draw length on my bow shortened a little. I thought you measured draw length from furthest tips of our fingers with your arms in a T, divided by 2.5. No? By that method, my draw length is ~29.6" and my bow is set to 30".
> 
> ...


Wingspan... fingertip to fingertip, divided by 2.5 will just get you close. Tweaking will be needed. Don't forget to subtract the string loop... if you use one.
Re-read my first post regarding hand position. Don't be afraid to remove the handle on the grip of your bow... if it's not flat and thin. That said, torque can be introduced by other things too... incorrect draw length being one of them.


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## JFW (Feb 22, 2012)

Ok. What kind of tweaking do you mean? Can you give me some things to look at or have someone look at for me?

The grip of my bow IS flat and thin. There really isn't much of a handle to speak of....just two inserts, one on each side that barely stick out. I'm going to take them off anyways, but I really don't think it will make much difference. I got some rubber-ish racquet ball racquet grip tape. I'm going to wrap that around my grip because it gets slippery after awhile. Sweaty hand and all. I'll reread your post. Again. lol 

Another question...how do you know how far your bow hand should be extended? You want your lat to be whats bracing the bow arm, right? Not the shoulder? How much bend should there be in your bow arm?


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## mike 66 (Jan 21, 2010)

LMAO DONT YOU JUST LOVE THESE NEW GUYS WHITE SHOE.....HES ALL YOURS.. GOOD JOB:thumbs_up


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## JFW (Feb 22, 2012)

Hahahahaha! Yeah! Laugh at the new guy! :| hey, just trying to do the best I can. I appreciate all the advice. Da White Shoe really went out of his way.


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## da white shoe (Mar 10, 2009)

Ok. What kind of tweaking do you mean? Can you give me some things to look at or have someone look at for me?

I can tell if my draw is too long, even if it's only by 1/8".... if my cams are constantly trying to roll over at full draw, the draw is too long. I adjust it by tweeking the length of my string loop.

The grip of my bow IS flat and thin. There really isn't much of a handle to speak of....just two inserts, one on each side that barely stick out. I'm going to take them off anyways, but I really don't think it will make much difference. I got some rubber-ish racquet ball racquet grip tape. I'm going to wrap that around my grip because it gets slippery after awhile. Sweaty hand and all. I'll reread your post. Again. lol 

If it's already flat and thin, don't mess with it.

Another question...how do you know how far your bow hand should be extended? You want your lat to be whats bracing the bow arm, right? Not the shoulder? How much bend should there be in your bow arm?

The bow-side shoulder should be down. Bow-arm bend is a personal choice, but I like mine slightly bent.


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## da white shoe (Mar 10, 2009)

JFW said:


> Hahahahaha! Yeah! Laugh at the new guy! :| hey, just trying to do the best I can. I appreciate all the advice. Da White Shoe really went out of his way.


Don't feel bad! We were all new guys once! :wink:

Anyway... that's what we're here for.


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## Stubby'smom (Mar 20, 2010)

You are getting some very good advice here but if you have someone who can show you the same thing in person that would be the very best. Don't feel bad about asking questions. I got told last night by my shop owner that I ask a ton of questions and he likes that because it shows I want to learn even though it annoys him sometimes!


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## JFW (Feb 22, 2012)

Da White Shoe-
Thanks man! I'll look into all of that. Really appreciate all the help. 

Stubby'smom-
Yeah, finding someone in my area that knows this stuff isn't easy. And how do you really know if someone does know their stuff? lol the guys at the local "pro shop" haven't been much help. I'm going to go talk to a guy my wife's uncle recommended to me. Hopefully he's legit and can help.


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