# Why so few field shooters



## MGB

I'm new to Field shooting this year and it is a total blast! Why does it seem like there are so few field shooters? Our club has 2400 members, including firearms, and only 1-2 of us shot our local Field league this year (Penn Dutch) and it seems like all the shoots had about 50 or less shooters total. I know there are a ton of great archers around here, but clearly they are not participating in the Field scene.


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## Crazy4Centaurs

Because the 60 lb draw weight is extremely debilitating , ha ha ha ha, Just Kidding ! Really I don't know .. ??


MGB said:


> I'm new to Field shooting this year and it is a total blast! Why does it seem like there are so few field shooters? Our club has 2400 members, including firearms, and only 1-2 of us shot our local Field league this year (Penn Dutch) and it seems like all the shoots had about 50 or less shooters total. I know there are a ton of great archers around here, but clearly they are not participating in the Field scene.


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## asa1485

Don't know about round you but here, the nearest one is like 3 hours away. And with being out of work, just can not justify going.


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## VA Vince

50 shooters for a local shoot is great. We average around 25 or so for our local Sunday shoots. But field is alive and well in Virginia and maryland.


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## DHawk2

We had 12 shooters at our last field round which is actually the best turnout this year. 9 of those traveled 1-3 hours to get here.


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## psargeant

Heck, 50 is great...with the exception of the Yadkinville shoots and the DCWC extravaganza, if you totaled up all our shoots this year, I'm not sure you would make 50...


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## hdracer

We had around 35 at our State shoot last weekend, up from the 15 or so the last shoot. There are alot of 3D'ers around here but many feel they can't compete due to the distances involved (although they really haven't tried), the number arrows shot and the time involved. These are just my observations so it may be different in other areas. :darkbeer:


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## Nomad_Archer

I know around me it is awareness. People dont know that there is a free 14 target field course around the corner. Everyone I have taken has gotten hooked and they love it. However most people around here just dont know what it is about. The other issue I could see in other areas is access there just are not alot of field courses compared to 3d courses in my area. Everyone and there brother does a 3d shoot.


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## Pat_from_PA

Crazy4Centaurs said:


> Because the 60 lb draw weight is extremely debilitating , ha ha ha ha, Just Kidding ! Really I don't know .. ??



I don't kown what your state regulations are but the NFAA regulations are 80# MAX and 300FPS max.


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## psargeant

Oh ours follow NFAA rules...

Just a less experienced shooter talking...

I think she's just having a little bit of Fun...


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## TANC

hdracer said:


> We had around 35 at our State shoot last weekend, up from the 15 or so the last shoot. There are alot of 3D'ers around here but many feel they can't compete due to the distances involved (although they really haven't tried), the number arrows shot and the time involved. These are just my observations so it may be different in other areas. :darkbeer:


*Distance involved ?* _Well, that's part of the fun and challenge of it unless you're talking about the traveling distance. What 3Ders don't seem to grasp is the shooting skills gain and equipment knowledge acquired in shooting such lengths._

*Number of arrows ?* _Defintely an issue we've beat to death before. My back has been ailing me here lately, and I can shoot 20 3D targets, but Field - no way right now._

*Time involved ?* _You can shoot a half round of field (56 shots) quicker than 20 3D targets most of the time. And there ain't much difference when shooting a full round of field._

People are just hooked on the competitive concept and challenge of shooting animals vs paper. This seems to be the best idea we've come up with IMO.


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## gryfox00

I ran a triathlon a couple of weeks ago, went over good 50 shooters. Had scheduled a bad date though, overlapped an IBO National shoot so some of the shooters were in OHIO. Try a triathlon out, it interests all shooters. 15 field target 300 shoot, 3 ends of indoor 3 spot, 20 unknwn yrdg 3d. 110 arrows !!


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## r302

*Field archery is hard*

Only the most determined archer likes Field archery because it is the ultimate archery challenge.

112 arrows for a 28 target Field or Hunter round and up to 5 1/2 hours on the range sometimes in the 90 plus heat and bugs.

You gotta want to shoot Field archery real bad to tolerate those conditions.

I did it for 34 years and now 40 arrows in the cool mountains shooting one arrow at a time at a 3D target is for me.

The best archers shoot Field archery and make better 3D archers.

Just my opinion. r302 :wink:


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## rock monkey

:moviecorn


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## NCMikey

I shoot both field and 3D. Everyone I take to a field shoot likes it but its just not big around here. (I'm working on that) Like I tell them field helps you shoot 3D better and 3D helps you shoot field better.


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## jre4192

I think it has something to do with the demons that aiming at a spot brings out in people. They can let the pin float on a 3d animal all day and feel like they are holding like a rock, but when they see that they cant keep the pin steady on the dot they get all "panicky". Then we never see them again.


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## Hosscoller

Yeah, the other guy was right, 3D guys can't shoot more'n 40, to 60 arrows at a time, field archery is much more demanding, takes real archers...

Just kidding............

I attended the Mt. Madonna Bug shoot last Sunday it was a 3D shoot of 42 targets, 2 arrows we started at 0900 and I walked off the hill at 5:00pm. It is the toughest shoot I go to all year long. I did the California State Field Championships back in June, 42 targets 4 arrows and it was a walk in the park compared to the Bug Shoot,(My score is in the CBH/SAA news letter but they spelled my name wrong even after I told em it was wrong) but terrain had a lot to do with it too. There are some demanding novelty shoots here in CA. Madera Field Archers Bounty hunt is a 42 target 3D shoot that will kick yer butt if you're out of shape, but Madonna is the toughest.


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## rock monkey

here's an unpopular discussion reason.....

money


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## jre4192

rock monkey said:


> here's an unpopular discussion reason.....
> 
> money


Are you saying that people cant afford to shoot field, or that they wont because they cant win money doing it?


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## rock monkey

jre4192 said:


> Are you saying that people cant afford to shoot field, or that they wont because they cant win money doing it?


not A, and part of B.....

they wont shoot field because field events dont pay in the amateur classes and not as far down in the money classes. seems that a lot of people want to be able to turn hobby into profit.

the money thing creates it's own special set of demons. pencil pushing, scoring line games, group generosity and many others.



what color medal do they give in the olympics for 8th place?


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## NCMikey

Our last shoot was a 3D and we had 99 shooters. 81 shot for trophies and 18 for money. People like to shoot for money but will come from a long ways off for a nice big trophy. A least it has been that way for the last couple years at our club.


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## steve morley

I enjoy both Field and 3D, I dont think Field Archers are better than Bowhunters or 3D shooters but it does take a lot more effort to shoot Field to a high standard, people dont seem to have the time these days and 3D is less effort to get good.


I'm shooting WFAC in Germany next week, registration opened last Aug and was fully booked within first week. Field is still strong in Europe but you still have this devide of 3D and Field shooters, not many like me who shoot both, I find they compliment each other and enjoy the challeges they both offer


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## xring1

*Field*

I think for the most part many dont shoot field because of no built in excuses, I didnt guess the yardage right or I thought that was a large deer not a medium! Most times when you step up to a field target the range and target is correct if you dont make the shot its on you jmho


Dale


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## Arrow

Here are my $0.02 worth. To shoot a club level shoot, there are no additional membership requirements anywhere that I know of. However, to shoot a state level shoot, there is the requirement of beloning to the NFAA for awards.

Now, the NFAA is not expensive, includes the Archery magazine, and there is even hunter insurance. But, people do not see those benefits. They say that it is too much to have to have additional membership to shoot state shoots.

I understand to a point, but even when our club has a club shoot, members do not come out. However, they seem to be on the course shooting the spots becaure r302 has to relace them every week or so.

We have treied everything we can think of, seems taht only a few will ever understand the benefits of shooting field archery.

Arrow


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## 3dshooter80

I'm with Xring1...

I fully believe the issue is just that there are too many archers that like to have an excuse for their lack of ability. Too many "chest pounders" want to be able to blame their bow, the wind, or some other random thing when they don't shoot well. 

I don't think money is the reason for the low attendance since most of the guys that shoot 3D only shoot for a trophy. That is the reason for the lack of Pro involvement, but not the regular joes. 

I know several local 3D guys that will only shoot 3D, but they tell you how great they are all the time, and then when they shoot like crap they have 10 million excuses.


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## rock monkey

i will agree that money back isnt the primary reason, but it is used often and a lot.

why dont you go to the state field/sectionals/nationals?.....because i dont get a payback that helps cover expenses. well, $4.27 really made a difference in your weekend's costs, didnt it? i have seen super groupies say it before. you know, the name dropping-fan boy-venue pimps...yeah, those kind

how many times have we seen a thread kickin the IBO in the teeth because they were shorted or like to use creative accounting to justify the money they 'didnt' get? MANY. the club that does the work is the body that should get the lion's share of the profits, not the sanctioning org.

there are very few legit excuses in field archery. setting your sight wrong, sun in your eyes, poor shot execution and environmental factors are the most acceptable. the rest is all about the archer

shooting a rubber deer in the hind-quarters, even with the high value ring and saying you had the yardage wrong is a fool's excuse if you believe it. that's not poor yardage skills, it's poor archery skills.

if you dont like knowing how good you arent, practice. if you dont like being last in your class, practice. grow up and get a thicker skin.





3dshooter80 said:


> I'm with Xring1...
> 
> I fully believe the issue is just that there are too many archers that like to have an excuse for their lack of ability. Too many "chest pounders" want to be able to blame their bow, the wind, or some other random thing when they don't shoot well.
> 
> I don't think money is the reason for the low attendance since most of the guys that shoot 3D only shoot for a trophy. That is the reason for the lack of Pro involvement, but not the regular joes.
> 
> I know several local 3D guys that will only shoot 3D, but they tell you how great they are all the time, and then when they shoot like crap they have 10 million excuses.


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## TNMAN

*not many field shooters*

The truth is, shooting field is hard work. The reward is strictly personal and not always evident. People that don't mind hard work are getting harder to find nowadays. Call a work day at your club and see who shows up with tools, water, and lunch. Just my take on it.


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## Rattleman

tnman said:


> the truth is, shooting field is hard work. The reward is strictly personal and not always evident. People that don't mind hard work are getting harder to find nowadays. Call a work day at your club and see who shows up with tools, water, and lunch. Just my take on it.


amen


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## rock monkey

so getting good at 3D isnt difficult for someone that doesnt have the resources or property to go out and practice everyday?


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## bow-legged

*Here are my reasons.*

1- My bow is way to fast. 
2- don't have time to set up a bow for long distances
3 - it's 3d time 
4- not enough places to shoot
5- like shooting foam animals
6- spending money on new setup
7- It is always same course so club members have advantage
8- just to manny other things going on (hunting,ibo,Asa, spots) the last thing I need to do is start trying to be good at a new form of archery.


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## Ohio_3Der

bow-legged said:


> 1- My bow is way to fast.
> 2- don't have time to set up a bow for long distances
> 3 - it's 3d time
> 4- not enough places to shoot
> 5- like shooting foam animals
> 6- spending money on new setup
> 7- It is always same course so club members have advantage
> 8- just to manny other things going on (hunting,ibo,Asa, spots) the last thing I need to do is start trying to be good at a new form of archery.



1. Faster than 309
2. If you shoot open with a movable sight, you already have marks on your tape.
3. Can't argue that
4.Put a course either
5.Can't argue that either.
6. Same set up as mbo 
7. Its the same course as every course in America. How does a club member have an advantage?
8. Not everyone likes spots


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## ScarletArrows

real reason you see a bunch of 3-d shooters and not a bunch of target shooters is simple...

they're afraid
"80 yrds...I don't have a pin for that!" 
"That's too many arrows!" 
"It's too hot outside for all that walkin."
"It's too far away."


Solution...hand'em a tissue and move on.


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## bow-legged

9- don't have place for tissues 

I will have to come out and give it a try. My new mathews m7 shoots 345 fps


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## 60Xbulldog60X

TNMAN said:


> The truth is, shooting field is hard work. The reward is strictly personal and not always evident. People that don't mind hard work are getting harder to find nowadays. Call a work day at your club and see who shows up with tools, water, and lunch. Just my take on it.


TNMAN, I believe you have nailed it on the head. Field is hard work. I've been working at it for 28 years now and I still have room for improvement. Just looking at the workforce in the manufacturing areas proves what you say about people not wanting to work hard. Hell, the people that are doing the job that I used to do 25 years ago have it made now and still complain. If they had to work like I did when I was doing that job, I would bet that over 50% of them would quit. Technology has made unskilled labor alot easier on the workforce yet they complain about the little work that they have to do. 
It's unbelievable really. As far as the workday at a club, it's been like that for the entire 28 years that I have been involved. There are usually only 1 - 3 people that do most of the work. The rest just want to give there 2 cents worth and not lift a finger to help. I doubt that this will ever change. 

One other reason I think may contribute to not having much attendance at a Field shoot is that there is only one big Field tournament a year and that is the Outdoor Nationals. You do have your Sectionals but they do not draw the big names to attract other shooters. I think the reason for that is that there is no contingency money at the Sectionals to draw the big names. I think 3D thrives because there is usually a big tournament atleast once a month during the spring and summer and there are good payouts along with contingency and big names. Lots of guys are turning to Fita shoots. The major bow companies pay contingency for these shoots and that draws the big names. I wish there were more attendance at the field shoots and I have seen the numbers pickup some in our neck of the woods. It is still far from what it used to be 25 years ago.

Well, I think I have said enough. Hope everyone has a wonderful evening.

Take care,

Kendall


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## r302

*Yes you are!*



jre4192 said:


> I think it has something to do with the demons that aiming at a spot brings out in people. They can let the pin float on a 3d animal all day and feel like they are holding like a rock, but when they see that they cant keep the pin steady on the dot they get all "panicky". Then we never see them again.



Now you are talking about me and those dreaded dots.

r302:scared::embara:


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## RIDGE_RUNNER91

bow-legged said:


> 9- don't have place for tissues
> 
> I will have to come out and give it a try. My new mathews m7 shoots 345 fps


I know you still have at least 1 ovation. That would have to get you much closer 3 hundo


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## Hosscoller

I belong to a Field Archery club here in California, we have working parties every first Sunday of the month and host club shoots the second Sunday of every month. I have not been to a sanctioned 3D money shoot in CA. yet, we do however have many Annual Club novelty shoots that have 3D and 2D targets in the line up. My club has been around for about for about 40 years I believe, could be longer. On working parties we clean till noon, have lunch, and go shoot the course. Most of our members are either NFAA or CBH/SAA members, all of our shoots are CBH affiliated. We draw around 230 people a year to our (Woodlake Antelope Archers)Broken Arrow tournament in March, Madera Field Archers (Bounty Hunt) draw just about the same, Fresno Field Archers (Fresno Safari)used to draw 1,200 years ago. I attended the State Field Championships held at Fresno FA, and there were only two other people in my class (BHFS), prez of FAA and the Prez of MFA, and I don't believe there were more than 45 people total in all classes there that Sunday. Of course California is hotter'n a two peckered Billy Goat in June, kids are out of school and families go on vacations.

But I do know on weekend Club shoots everyone is out to beat their own scores, and maybe even beat club records to put their name on the club "I love me walls". I have yet to shoot well enough to acually be classified as an "A" Class BHFS shooter, my highest score is 499, and average is 485. That is what motivates and keeps me shooting Field archery every chance I get.


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## 20ftup

Seems that in NC to get any real info or answers about it you have to already be a member of the good ole boys club no advertising and vague instructions and shoot info


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## lane preston

i think alot of the numbers are down in the summer is due to the weather. i love to shoot field archery but there is so much i need to get done while the weather is good. like staining my log house, getting hay for the hay burners (horses) and lawn main. overtime in at work, and the list goes on and on. 
in the winter we have more time for shooting which is spots most of the time. i used to shoot every michigan shoot (MAA). but i havent shot outdoors in 3 years. i may be able to shoot the 900 round in 2 week. and i am looking forward to the oppertunity.


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## 3dshooter80

20ftup said:


> Seems that in NC to get any real info or answers about it you have to already be a member of the good ole boys club no advertising and vague instructions and shoot info


If you ever want to come down to the "Piedmont" to shoot some field, you are more than welcome. No "good ole boys" club here, just a few people that genuinely enjoy archery and the challenge of field. Come on down and have some fun with us, whenever you want. Send me or Jarlicker or Pragmatic Lee a pm for info about Durham county wildlife club or psargeant or treaton a pm regarding their ranges which are a lot closer to you. In fact, treaton has a range in Yadkinville which shouldn't be more than a hour and a half from you. 
Maybe the "good old boys" that you are referring to are up in the mountains, but I can assure you that you are always welcome to shoot a little closer to the middle of the state.


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## SCarson

20ftup said:


> Seems that in NC to get any real info or answers about it you have to already be a member of the good ole boys club no advertising and vague instructions and shoot info


Here's where you can find our about most, if not all, of the Field shoots, both outdoor and the "I"-word version, that are scheduled in NC. http://www.ncfaa-archery.org


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## psargeant

20ftup said:


> Seems that in NC to get any real info or answers about it you have to already be a member of the good ole boys club no advertising and vague instructions and shoot info


We've had PM conversations before I believe. There is a club right around the corner from you, (Blue Ridge Bowhunters) and I know they're not a Good ole' boys club. just look them up on our website:

www.ncfaa-archery.org

Now no more excuses...


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## pragmatic_lee

20ftup said:


> Seems that in NC to get any real info or answers about it you have to already be a member of the good ole boys club no advertising and vague instructions and shoot info


Wow - If you or anyone else for that matter has ever come to my home club (DCWC) and I did not make a concerted effort to go to you and personally welcome you then I wholeheartedly apologize! But I don't think that is the case.


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## XSPOT60

ScarletArrows said:


> real reason you see a bunch of 3-d shooters and not a bunch of target shooters is simple...
> 
> they're afraid
> "80 yrds...I don't have a pin for that!"
> "That's too many arrows!"
> "It's too hot outside for all that walkin."
> "It's too far away."
> 
> 
> Solution...hand'em a tissue and move on.


I could not agree more. I shot 3D 1 time. It's not as challanging as field. I starting shooting this yr. 1st shoot was a 480 wich sucks but was my first. A few weeks ago i shot a 528. Im getting better. But i also get tips and help from a great archer here in VA. Anybody can go shoot 3D but it takes skill and stamina to shoot field. You can shoot or you can be a archer. Thats just my take on the situation.


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## LHpuncher

Number 1 the average guy may have never heard of feild its so unknown. I didnt know what it was till I got on here. 


Number 2 some people are intimidated by the distances, number of arrows and tim.



Number 3 no money in it. In my area I can pay 25.00 to go to a field shoot and win a plaque or pay 25.00 - 35.00 and have a chance to winn $300.00 +.

I like to shoot 3d and field both and wouldn't give up one for the other but for alot of people if there gonna spend the money they would rather have the bigger prize.


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## AT_X_HUNTER

I think part of field shooting's problem is, in part, a lack of ranges. Without having one close by it's difficult to be introduced or to introduce someone to it.

The rules may play a small part in putting some people off. If you are not shooting with an experienced field shooter it's easy to mess up and shoot the wrong target after half or not rotate shooting positions, or what ever rule applies to that individual target. It could just be a bit intimidating or frustrating.

I don't know that the distances are that big of a deal since you only shoot 80 yards once or twice throughout the day. most of the shots are 45yd and under(?). I also don't think that target shooters are all that put off by field becasue of the format either. They are target shooters after all.

I think it just comes down to individual preference and accessibility to a range. I can shoot field almost any time I want, but I've only shot about 4 rounds in the past 20 years. It is fun, but for what ever reason it just doesn't have the appeal that FITA or indoors has to me. I imagine it is the same for 3-D shooters that only shoot indoors a couple times a year like Levi Morgan. The sport is so diverse we can choose to shoot what we like.


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## LHpuncher

Field is alittle intimidating at first, my first score was a 530. It takes time, I think thats where it looses it appeal to some. MY goal this weekend is a 545-550


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## rock monkey

intimidating because the rules are 'different' as in unfamiliar. doesnt take long to figure out the game when you shoot with someone that knows it. clubs should take the time to explain the rules to the newbs BEFORE a shoot starts. field shooters are plenty open about the rules.....ive shot with some hardcore foamheads and trying to get some info from them is like shuffling across broken glass.

in the push to popularize a venue, the other venues are trivialized and overblown.

it's too far.  _no, it's not. you only *think* it's too far. i still havent figured out how 2 arrows at a known 80yds is too hard to shoot at a target the size of the bale. while on the other hand, the same people will throw dollars and arrows away and laugh about it trying to shoot at a rubber squirrel over 100yds away._

my bow cant shoot past X yards _yeah....tell that to the olympic archers, native americans and mongols. if your bow cant shoot that far, then explain how these cultures with even more primitive weapons and technology could shoot that far and survived._

the dress code puts me off _yeah, well someone wearing a beer, puke and tobacco stained wife beater that's 3 sizes too small and hot pants really makes my stomach gurgle. entertaining as hell, but so very disturbing._

it takes too long. _ok, maybe i would have believed that 10yrs ago, but not now. if someone could figure out how to build a bow shop, with a cooler and kegerator into a couch and still manage to make it mobile, you'd see it on the course. _

it's too far to drive. _maybe so, but you really dont have a problem droppin a ton of coin on a day and a half's drive to shoot 40 arrows. i look at it as a dollar/per arrow thing_

i get some money from shooting 3D/the chance at x amount of dollars _ok, ya got me there....i did get a few scratcher tix because i could have won some money, but those that keep telling me that making a whole $4.37 offsets their archery costs make me laugh. if money is soooo important to you while enjoying a recreational activity, how come you dont PM&G about the costs of shuttling your kids around to their other sports? they like to play soccer/baseball/football/softball, they should get paid too....using your logic. they invest time and money(indirectly) into their recreation activity. how many of you play golf? other than group bets, where's the money for that game that keeps you goin? this one is the most hypocritical._

never heard of the game/knew where to go. _blame that on the manufacturers and dealer networks for allowing a venue to wither. for not supporting a club. also blame that on clubs that have forsaken it for the quick buck. their love of the fast money is now becoming their major pain......cost of targets and labor involved in setting a course every month. the NFAA and state orgs share some of that blame too. the NFAA's VP has been derelict in his duties. last time i read the constitution, the VP was charged with public relations........which includes advertising._



LHpuncher said:


> Field is alittle intimidating at first, my first score was a 530. It takes time, I think thats where it looses it appeal to some. MY goal this weekend is a 545-550


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## ScarletArrows

rock monkey said:


> it takes too long. _ok, maybe i would have believed that 10yrs ago, but not now. if someone could figure out how to build a bow shop, with a cooler and kegerator into a couch and still manage to make it mobile, you'd see it on the course. _
> [/I]


now that is a damn good idea....


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## Cirque

rock monkey said:


> here's an unpopular discussion reason.....
> 
> money


Which is a shame and I believe it has everything to do with the NFAA being affiliated with a big corporation


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## super*

The mental game to be able to shoot 128 arrows is overwhelming in most ppls eyes. The money it cost to set up good field arrows verses top of the line 3D shafts. The distances shot. And for many ppl shooting at a circle target is boring. 

I shoot field. I enjoy it but if im in a slow group i get bored and dont want to shoot it no more. Overall i like it and have improved my game a lot. Now shooting in the mid 550s on a good day.


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## hdracer

Boring is standing in line for 20 minutes waiting for the pro-wannabes shoot 1 arrow. Then getting to shoot ONLY 1 arrow. Then standing in line again. Don't get me wrong, I like 3D. But I like Field more.


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## rsw

Probably the major reason is kids. Today, families do kid things on the weekends usually - soccer, football etc. When field was big, it was bigger than 3D - families (kids and all) gathered each weekend at a field archery shoot because it was a lot of fun, it was social as well as competitive, and there wasn't anything else to do, especially for kids. Weekend shoots in many places would see over 100 shooters and there were field ranges everywhere.

3D began the demise of field and the electronic world and kid sports finished it off. 3D which doesn't take so long, so much land, or so much labor to maintain took over the field ranges in most cases as clubs converted to maintain some attraction. Before long, dealers forgot about the few field ranges around and directed their customers to the 3D facilities. In the last few years, there has been a limited resurgence in field archery, but the customer is very different and the NFAA has failed to enter the modern age. People don't want to spend the entire day on the range shooting 112 arrows; club members no longer ardently support their clubs' work parties as they used to; land is less available; and targets are very difficult to maintain to a standard to capture modern arrows effectively, difficult to understand rules designed to trick the shooter rather than challenge their archery skills - all reasons which work against field archery becoming a major recreation in the future.

As I have mentioned many times in the past, if it is to survive, field archery must evolve into the future. Tradition be damned. Modern archers could care less about the tradition of field archery, but might be attracted to something more realistic - in vogue with current society. The rounds themselves must change: the International Round is a perfect fit, but who can convince the NFAA dinosaurs to change? 10 targets rather than 14? less money, less labor, less land, and shorter time on the range. How perfect could that be? Only 3 arrows per target rather than 4 - save a lot of time? No more goofy targets - fans, walk-ups, birdie targets. Drop the animal round which, at the National Level has evolved from a meaningless round to a single round which will determine the national championship each year. Shoot the round just like a field/hunter round on a roving range using field and/or hunter faces. Just one possible solution for a dying sport.


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## hdracer

RSW, 

Two things I don't understand from your post. First, what rules are the "difficult to understand rules designed to trick the shooter rather than challenge their archery skills"? The alternating targets faces on some the fan targets, or maybe the walk-ups?

Second is the time difference in shooting a 3D round vs Field. Our 3D shoots, and many others around here, can take well over 4-5 hours (sometimes 6+) due to the number of shooters and the time it takes many of them to shoot one arrow. Since Field is marked it takes the "is that 34 or 36 yds?" time out of the picture. Two shooters, and sometimes all four, shooting at one time cuts down on time as well. It can easily take over ten minutes for one group of four 3D shooters just to get off four arrows. Then starts the "is it touching or pushing the line?" converstion that takes up more time.

We have 14 Field targets and it generally takes 4-5 hours to shoot but we also take a break after the first 14. Shotgun starts eliminate the 30-40 shooters waiting on the first target.

I do agree that shops have gotten away from supporting Field. I hear alot of "I'd like to try that" but rarely see it put into action. There is an allure to walking the 3D course (ours use the same land as the Field) and seeing "animals" to shoot at. I will generally wait until most everyone else is thru the course the go shoot 2-4 arrows per target. But I enjoy shooting the Field course much better and try to get any many other shooters I know to come out and give it a try.


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## r49740

Just my opinion from my neck of the woods, but the average person around here has no clue about field archery or what it is. I didn't shoot anything competitive until about 4 years ago, but would go to the local shop a few times a year to prepare for hunting. Shop walls and tables would have flyers for 3d shoots, nothing for anything having to do with spots(indoor, outdoor, field, 300 round rounds, 600 rounds, etc). So unless involved in the NFAA side of things, there wasn't any way to really find out about it, after all... you dont know what you dont know.

Ohio has had a few courses pop up over the last couple years thanks to a couple groups and park systems, so now there isnt any excuses to not have a place to go. And at least by me, cost isn't an issue at all since the state park has a full 14 target course, and practice range out to 80 yards, open all day every day(except during hunting seasons) 100% free to anyone anytime. I would say from observation, that probably 90%ish of the people that go, shoot 20 and 30 yards, maybe 2 shots at 50, and then go home. They have no idea what the rest of the course is. 

Long answer short, at least from up this way, cost-time-skill-work needed-etc etc has nothing to do with it. People just dont know. But as courses continue to open up, it will grow.


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## Bo Bob

Can only speak for myself here so,...

Young kids and I hardly have enough time to practice and fit in some 3D shoots.

112 shots is a whole new game for those conditioned to 25 shots plus probably 25 more on the practice range.

Most field course around here that I know of only have shoots on Sunday and I'm not missing church (except for a rare occasion) for an archery tournament.


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## treaton

Bo Bob said:


> Can only speak for myself here so,...
> 
> Young kids and I hardly have enough time to practice and fit in some 3D shoots.
> 
> 112 shots is a whole new game for those conditioned to 25 shots plus probably 25 more on the practice range.
> 
> Most field course around here that I know of only have shoots on Sunday and I'm not missing church (except for a rare occasion) for an archery tournament.


Bob, 

All my shoots are on Saturday. Kids are welcome. You are just 3 hours from me. One shoot a month from April thru August. Grab some of those Lynchburg/Amherst boys and come visit this summer. You might just enjoy a "new game". I'll even buy lunch!

Tim


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## rsw

_RSW, 

Two things I don't understand from your post. First, what rules are the "difficult to understand rules designed to trick the shooter rather than challenge their archery skills"? The alternating targets faces on some the fan targets, or maybe the walk-ups?

Second is the time difference in shooting a 3D round vs Field. Our 3D shoots, and many others around here, can take well over 4-5 hours (sometimes 6+) due to the number of shooters and the time it takes many of them to shoot one arrow. Since Field is marked it takes the "is that 34 or 36 yds?" time out of the picture. Two shooters, and sometimes all four, shooting at one time cuts down on time as well. It can easily take over ten minutes for one group of four 3D shooters just to get off four arrows. Then starts the "is it touching or pushing the line?" converstion that takes up more time.

We have 14 Field targets and it generally takes 4-5 hours to shoot but we also take a break after the first 14. Shotgun starts eliminate the 30-40 shooters waiting on the first target.

I do agree that shops have gotten away from supporting Field. I hear alot of "I'd like to try that" but rarely see it put into action. There is an allure to walking the 3D course (ours use the same land as the Field) and seeing "animals" to shoot at. I will generally wait until most everyone else is thru the course the go shoot 2-4 arrows per target. But I enjoy shooting the Field course much better and try to get any many other shooters I know to come out and give it a try. _

HDracer: It is no secret that a first time shooter at a field shoot will nearly always feel intimidated about the rules for shooting one arrow at each of the 4 bunny targets then 2 into one face and 2 into another on the fan and then forgetting to move up after shooting one arrow on a walk up, but later shooting all 4 into the same face on a hunter walk up, etc, etc. This is heard all the time from first time shooters or novice field archers who haven't yet become accustomed to the rules/etiquette of field archery. Sure it is easy for you or I since we grew up shooting field, but it does confuse others who are advancing from some other venue into field and it truly does deter them from full enjoyment of the round as well as intimidate them since they are very uncomfortable with the rules. Frankly, I myself even interpret this silliness as an effort to "trick" the archer rather than test their skill.
Where we old timers are comfortable with and enjoy 4-6 hours on a field course, most younger folks today simply aren't. If they are experienced shooters, they have grown up on a 3 hour 3D or indoor round and are totally turned off at spending 5 or more hours on an archery range. I, and perhaps you, grew up shooting at least 56 targets with lunch in the middle in 5 hours. Families simply are unwilling to spend an entire day on the range when there are so many, many other recreational activities to pursue on days off. That is precisely why I continue to recommend a major change to our field archery rounds - it may not help, but it wouldn't hurt and without change, field archery is doomed. At present, it is supported by the senior shooters and few kids are introduced or keep an interest in the game. Each year the number of archers diminishes and so do the number of field ranges.


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## hdracer

Ok, RSW, I understand where you're coming from. Maybe I've been blessed with the guys I shoot with because they all have been tremendously supportive in teaching the in/outs of Field. But I'm not what you would consider an old-timer in archery. I started shooting in '07, 3D in late '07, FITA/JOAD in late '08, and Field in '10. And I have more years behind me than ahead. Yes, there is some uncertainty as to which target face to shoot from what position but new shooters shouldn't be held to the same exacting constraints as someone who has shot Field for many years. Get them in the game, help them enjoy it then help them understand the different rules. Get them hooked first. I need to carry a "road map" if you will of how to shoot the targets faces at each distance. I plan on making a short list of rules/directions to hand out at this year's shoots (I'm running them this year) to help keep confusion down to a minimum. And we are looking to increase our numbers. I have no expectation of even coming close to our 3D numbers but if we can double last year's turnout (15-25 I believe) then we will have succeeded. The biggest complaints I've heard is too many arrows or the distances are too long. Not so much heard about the rules as long as someone that knows them is shooting with the newer folks. And the biggest complaint many of the 3D shooters have on the 3D course is that it takes too long (4-6 hours) to shoot a 30 target course because of all the people shooting. We have averaged well over 100 shooters during the summer, 200+ on some days. But despite their complaints, they all come back the following month.

I might have to agree with you about the animal faces. One arrow fired at a dot after shooting 4 arrows at a full face does not make sense. We don't use animal targets during our 1-day Field shoots, just the standard and hunter faces.

Advertising is another big factor in drawing new shooters. 3D shoots sometimes are advertised ad nauseum but not so with Field shoots. I have my work cut out for me getting the word out. We have a couple dozen places to shoot 3D within a couple hours from here. On any given weekend there a 2 or more shoots. We have the only Field course in SW Ohio. There is another new one in NW Ohio and one near Indianapolis. These are the only ones I know of. But places like NC, PA and Maryland have more and many more shooters use them. I'm not sure why there is such a disparity. 

I'm not sure what the answer is but we need to keep plugging away.


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## Bo Bob

treaton said:


> Bob,
> 
> All my shoots are on Saturday. Kids are welcome. You are just 3 hours from me. One shoot a month from April thru August. Grab some of those Lynchburg/Amherst boys and come visit this summer. You might just enjoy a "new game". I'll even buy lunch!
> 
> Tim



Will have to consider this. Bunch of us do a "trash shoot" and a field round (half anyway) might be a fun thing to change things up some.


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## Spoon13

The time spent on the range isn't a real factor. It's an excuse because it sounds good. Here in the South, ASA is the King of 3D. As per the rules, the first shooter has 2 mins and the rest have 1 min each to shoot the target. 4 shooters in a group, that's 5 mins. Add another 5 mins for scoring and moving to the next target, that makes 10 mins per target times 20 targets is 200 mins (3 hrs and 20 mins) to shoot the round. Now that would be moving at an efficient pace. But anybody that has shot much 3D knows it doesn't happen that way. It took us over 6 hrs to shoot a 30 target course for the State Championship one year. Add 2 mins to each target and now you're up to 4 hrs. Now at most Field ranges, if you don't stop in the middle for lunch, a full 28 can be shot in about the same amount of time. 

As far as the distances, I've seen (and done) shooters stand for hours launching arrows at a Buffalo target or a Caribou from 60-100yds away (unknown distance sometimes) as a novelty shoot. I've seen them take 3 arrows over and bring only 1 back. They think it's fun but won't shoot 2 shots at 80, knowing how far it is??

As far as the rules designed to "trick" people. Not really. Are they designed to keep you paying attention to what you are doing?? ABSOLUTELY. But 3D does the same thing, it's just not the rules. Shooting target from light into dark, narrowing lanes, crossing valleys and holes, quartering targets, all designed to make you miss your intended point of impact. Even if you break the best shot you have ever broken you might score the same as a pre-me that flies through the woods looking for a tree. 

I shot 3D hard from 2006 to 2009. I've been to several ASA Pro-Am events and even have a trophy or 2. But when I went to shoot Field towards the end of 2009, something really clicked. I really enjoy the game much more than I ever did 3D. 

We all need to do a better job of advertising our sport. I talk it up to all of the shooters I used to shoot 3D with and some have come and shot with me but most don't. I get a variety of reasons depending on who the archer is. I'm not sure what the answer is to solve the problem but I can't help but feel as though if we keep it up front and in everybody's face and get some support from the local shops, that we can grow our numbers. But it's not gonna be easy.


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## field14

Some are saying that families aren't willing to spend ALL DAY on a field course to shoot 112 arrows for score...but yet...they ARE willing to spend ALL DAY on a 3-D course...at a major event to shoot TWENTY arrows, or if lucky FORTY arrows? Doesn't make sense. ALL DAY, or 4-5 hours on a field course with 112 shots, 4 shots per target....makes more practical sense to me than 4-5 hours on a 3-D course shooting ONE SHOT per target...and shooting only 20 or 40 shots total ALL DAY (or for the round).

Shooting "novelty" shoots at a 3-D event at a rubber turkey at unmarked distances of 100 yards or more...and laugh about it when you lose a $12 arrow or nine...yet won't shoot MARKED at 80 yards (two shots for the entire round) at a target the size of the bale? Pretty silly excuse to not shoot field in saying "too far".

I go to a range to shoot my bow and shoot lots of arrows....shooting ONE shot every 15-30 minutes is not my idea of shooting arrows or what I'm out on the range to do. Let alone carrying all the paraphenalia, such as an umbie to block the wind and a stool to plant my carcass on while I wait for my next shot that MIGHT come 15-20 minutes after the previous shot...IF....the group enforces the time limit,....which doesn't happen much.

Now.....I certainly do agree with RSW, however, in that the NFAA needs to get their head out of the sand and catch up with the times. The "traditional" field and hunter rounds, while fun and nice, has become archaic and out-dated. Like RSW says...the International round of 60 arrows...3 arrows per target, 10 targets per half, at distances of 20 thru 65 yards in 5-yard increments...is IDEAL! WAY less maintenance, can be set up nearly anywhere...even out in an open field if you want...or at the local PRACTICE RANGE. Not much mowing or trail trimming....FANTASTIC IDEA and WAY overdue, IMHO.

The "traditionalists" in the NFAA, however aren't about to ever let this happen...they keep trying the same old thing over and over and expect different results. They keep trying to count on a resurgence of field shooting when/if the 3-Ders get tired of rubber deer. This isn't happening and isn't likely to happen. One of the biggest reasons is LACK OF PROMOTION...The NFAA doesn't have a PUBLICITY committee or publicity chairman. The publicity, apparently is expected to be done by each club with the help of the NFAA director. I know some NFAA directors that rarely if ever have even been on the NFAA ranges in their states...many use a "designated representative" to do the course inspections...and are signed off as such!
Don't tell me this isn't true...I've personally SEEN IT, and have been the "designated representative" more than once in my long career!

The NFAA has got to change its modus operendi with regard to the field/hunter rounds. Aruging stilla bout 3 or 5 day formats, locations for the National event....states' members arguing that a two-day field championship is MANDATORY cuz it has always been that way and you MUST shoot with your competition on day TWO...Yet other states are very successful with a ONE day State Field, shooting 14 field in the morning, then turning in cards and regrouping and shooting 14 hunter and 14 animal in the afternoon WITH your competition. States that have done this have seen their attendance go UP quite impressively. States sticking with the two-day mandatory State field...are doing the same old thing the same old way while the numbers in attendance dwindle. Sometimes the traditionalists just need to get their heads out of the sand and get into the 21st century.
I love my field shooting, but I see the writing on the wall. Either the NFAA CHANGES their rounds and comes up to the times, or FIELD shooting is done for.
Can't even get them to change a simple rule on the shooting of the bunny target without a fight...let alone come into modernizing things... Worried about the wraps on the back of a 27 diameter arrow...but SKYING THE BOW isn't of any concern????
field14 (Tom D.)


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## Fleahop

""Worried about the wraps on the back of a 27 diameter arrow...but SKYING THE BOW isn't of any concern????""

Tom... Your not worried about the wraps? What if they come off? Just kidding... 

Tallahassee Fl is having an international round shoot in March I think. It will be the first in the area that I know of in a long time. I am interested in how it will go and plan to be there. 

Family activity seems like it would help increase the participation. Get the Ladies that don't shoot involved some how have more kid activities. What and how I don't know. 

Back in the late 70's and the early 80's every third Saturday the club had a shoot. There was a pot luck lunch, horse shoes, archery lessons for the novice, a 28 target competition, Trophies and plaques were handed out. People stayed late, the lights were turned on in the small indoor dirt floor barn. We shot 20 yards played archery games and cards. It was not un common to have between 60 and 100 people involved through out the day.

I know in the state of Alabama we have doubled our NFAA membership in the last year. Pat correct me if I'm wrong but I believe we have 36 members. A new range was built above Pratville and there are talks of 2 more going to be built in the state. 

I am trying to get a league started in Dothan and a local shop. Pratville has a nice little group that shows up every Monday night at Ricks archery. I just recently found out about a indoor range in Phenix City Al. I have yet to visit them maybe this Sunday afternoon.

A big obstacle that I have seen locally is the cost of setting up a range. The arrow shot with the equipment being used today isn't easily stopped. The land to put it on is also an issue. All the Field ranges that were active in the 80's in the state were hurt by the 3-d craze but they were killed by the loss of the property. Only one survived and it was on a military insulation and had to be moved around but at least they still had land.

So all this being said if anyone has in helpful comments or ideas I personally would like to here them.


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## rsw

Tom: You and I agree on most things, but I have yet to see family on a 3D course that spent anywhere near 4 hours to shoot 20 targets. Even at the ASA shoots where thousands of dollars are at stake for we pros, I have not spent over 3 hours to shoot. I agree there is some slowness in the local shoots because of lost arrows which aren't uncommon, but even there, we can shoot 30 or 40 arrows in 4 -5 hours. By nature, 3D is bound to be slower, but for some unique reason, it has the greater following by far - I guess it is the similarity to a hunting scenario and the fact that super accuracy is not as important. While ASA continues to grow, or at least maintain, field is slowly dying on the vine and I know it is the time factor combined with the existence of other more important to most, recreation for kids. Remember when kids were a large part of the shooting crowd? Today, in most places I have been recently, youth shooters are few and far between, despite the popularity of NASP and JOAD. Why aren't those kids out there?

Probably the second most important reason is the lack of field archery facilities. Land, money, labor requirements kill existing clubs and frustrate others who might like to build a range. The dearth of shooters kills income for existing clubs, especially when combined with the myriad of 1 person classes and divisions that run up award costs.

Who is to blame - the NFAA itself. Run by non-shooters who haven't a clue about field archery or the potential to grow rather than wither, the NFAA has failed to advance with the times. They have failed miserably in public relations as well. Who ever hears of the NFAA unless they are already a member? What pro shops advertise, or perhaps even know of, a field club nearby? Probably very few as there are so few clubs nearby to begin with.

Breaking tradition by changing the rounds might not help, but it can't hurt and it certainly does address some of our current woes. An international round shot on a field archery course is just plain fun like the field rounds themselves, but save so much. I hope the shoot in FL will be shot in the woods rather than out in an open field as it is much more fun that way.


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## hdracer

If the NFAA won't make the changes suggested then maybe a grassroots initiative will. What is to keep the local clubs from shooting a format of their choosing to try to get numbers up? Not every 3D club follows the IBO or ASA rules when holding local shoots. Combined classes, a blind eye to equipment violations, yardages that exceed the class standards, etc. It can be the same way for Field as far as format goes, right? As long as it is not a NFAA sanctioned event then the club can decide how the course will be shot. We have several 1-day shoots planned this year. Maybe an International round can be held. I haven't shot one but I can set it up at our club.


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## kkromer

Spoon13 said:


> The time spent on the range isn't a real factor. It's an excuse because it sounds good. Here in the South, ASA is the King of 3D. As per the rules, the first shooter has 2 mins and the rest have 1 min each to shoot the target. 4 shooters in a group, that's 5 mins. Add another 5 mins for scoring and moving to the next target, that makes 10 mins per target times 20 targets is 200 mins (3 hrs and 20 mins) to shoot the round. Now that would be moving at an efficient pace. But anybody that has shot much 3D knows it doesn't happen that way. It took us over 6 hrs to shoot a 30 target course for the State Championship one year. Add 2 mins to each target and now you're up to 4 hrs. Now at most Field ranges, if you don't stop in the middle for lunch, a full 28 can be shot in about the same amount of time.
> 
> As far as the distances, I've seen (and done) shooters stand for hours launching arrows at a Buffalo target or a Caribou from 60-100yds away (unknown distance sometimes) as a novelty shoot. I've seen them take 3 arrows over and bring only 1 back. They think it's fun but won't shoot 2 shots at 80, knowing how far it is??
> 
> As far as the rules designed to "trick" people. Not really. Are they designed to keep you paying attention to what you are doing?? ABSOLUTELY. But 3D does the same thing, it's just not the rules. Shooting target from light into dark, narrowing lanes, crossing valleys and holes, quartering targets, all designed to make you miss your intended point of impact. Even if you break the best shot you have ever broken you might score the same as a pre-me that flies through the woods looking for a tree.
> 
> I shot 3D hard from 2006 to 2009. I've been to several ASA Pro-Am events and even have a trophy or 2. But when I went to shoot Field towards the end of 2009, something really clicked. I really enjoy the game much more than I ever did 3D.
> 
> We all need to do a better job of advertising our sport. I talk it up to all of the shooters I used to shoot 3D with and some have come and shot with me but most don't. I get a variety of reasons depending on who the archer is. I'm not sure what the answer is to solve the problem but I can't help but feel as though if we keep it up front and in everybody's face and get some support from the local shops, that we can grow our numbers. But it's not gonna be easy.


You know this pretty much reflects my experience. I started shooting 3-d a long time ago and have done okay with it. Started shooting indoor to get better at 3-d and ended up liking that better, then decided I wanted to shoot field and fita. Did both of those and now like shooting field rounds best of all. That said the structure of the NFAA that promotes field isn't doing it right - at least that is my opinion. They need to take a look at what ASA is doing here in Texas - it's booming and try to duplicate that. I'm not trying to stir the pot, that is just my opinion. Like I said Field is my favorite round to shoot, but the promotion isn't that strong.


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## Kade

kkromer said:


> You know this pretty much reflects my experience. I started shooting 3-d a long time ago and have done okay with it. Started shooting indoor to get better at 3-d and ended up liking that better, then decided I wanted to shoot field and fita. Did both of those and now like shooting field rounds best of all. That said the structure of the NFAA that promotes field isn't doing it right - at least that is my opinion. They need to take a look at what ASA is doing here in Texas - it's booming and try to duplicate that. I'm not trying to stir the pot, that is just my opinion. Like I said Field is my favorite round to shoot, but the promotion isn't that strong.



Just imagine if the ASA only had ONE 3D shoot a year. Should the NFAA be called the NFAA when they only have one major field shoot a year? Their is no wonder nobody shoots field.


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## rsw

One championship shoot per year is all the NFAA could do because of the extraordinary support reqts of the shoot. It isn't quite like setting up an ASA event with 3D targets and paid help to get it all together. There aren't enough Field Ranges (almost none) willing to expend the effort (with only 4-5 people to shoulder the load) for the small financial return as well as too few shooters who would support the tour. That isn't to say it can't be done, but the effort would be Herculean in comparison with regard to fiscal return. ASA has well over 1000 shooters, but NFAA struggles to get 300 anymore. It really would be great to have an NFAA tour like ASA.


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## field14

rsw said:


> Tom: You and I agree on most things, but I have yet to see family on a 3D course that spent anywhere near 4 hours to shoot 20 targets. Even at the ASA shoots where thousands of dollars are at stake for we pros, I have not spent over 3 hours to shoot. I agree there is some slowness in the local shoots because of lost arrows which aren't uncommon, but even there, we can shoot 30 or 40 arrows in 4 -5 hours. By nature, 3D is bound to be slower, but for some unique reason, it has the greater following by far - I guess it is the similarity to a hunting scenario and the fact that super accuracy is not as important. While ASA continues to grow, or at least maintain, field is slowly dying on the vine and I know it is the time factor combined with the existence of other more important to most, recreation for kids. Remember when kids were a large part of the shooting crowd? Today, in most places I have been recently, youth shooters are few and far between, despite the popularity of NASP and JOAD. Why aren't those kids out there?
> 
> Probably the second most important reason is the lack of field archery facilities. Land, money, labor requirements kill existing clubs and frustrate others who might like to build a range. The dearth of shooters kills income for existing clubs, especially when combined with the myriad of 1 person classes and divisions that run up award costs.
> 
> Who is to blame - the NFAA itself. Run by non-shooters who haven't a clue about field archery or the potential to grow rather than wither, the NFAA has failed to advance with the times. They have failed miserably in public relations as well. Who ever hears of the NFAA unless they are already a member? What pro shops advertise, or perhaps even know of, a field club nearby? Probably very few as there are so few clubs nearby to begin with.
> 
> Breaking tradition by changing the rounds might not help, but it can't hurt and it certainly does address some of our current woes. An international round shot on a field archery course is just plain fun like the field rounds themselves, but save so much. I hope the shoot in FL will be shot in the woods rather than out in an open field as it is much more fun that way.


You and I were so fortunate to have been able to compete when "field archery" was ruling the roost. I still think that 4-5 hours to shoot only 40 shots is ridiculous...but hey, people are lining up at the gates to get in, so what do I know? hahaha.
I guess that what I know, and obviously you too, know is that unless the NFAA leadership gets their head out of the sand and makes some MAJOR changes to their modus operendi, the OUTDOOR portion of it is doomed.

I certainly agree concerning the availability of time, money, people, and LAND. The International Round you suggest is something that pretty much MUST happen as land becomes a premium, and the "work force" to maintain a course ages and gets less and less inclined to maintain the field courses that USED to exist. Fewer by the month. Many places have gone down to only 14 targets instead of the old standby 28. If the club doesn't OWN the land, so many are being either forced to take up less space, or are kicked out all together.
I've seen field course shut down so that the locals could use the place for "walking paths", and 'jogging routes', bicycle paths, horse-back riding, mountain biking, you name it. The reasons given are varied, but one of the biggest? Simple; "You guys aren't USING it like you used to."
Local ranges tend to PROMOTE ONLY RUBBER DEER...they don't care about the field courses around, even if they know they are there....it is to them, all about rubber deer, because so few target bows and setups are being purchased for OUTDOOR shooting (and not many for indoor either). However....3-D setups; especially FAST ONES are selling like hot cakes. Don't have to practice the countless hours to shoot rubber deer either, and people just aren't willing to dedicate the time and effort these days.

Clubs have TRIED and tried again all sorts of things, anything from having an International Round set up during a 3-D event right there on the practice range, to setting up 1/2 field and 1/2 3-D right on thru everything...and to no avail.
Yet...as I said earlier, they will stand there throwing arrows into the trees at a turkey set at 100 yards and laugh about it all day long...some of them laughing at losing $12 arrows by the dozen. They won't, however shoot even a 30 arrow half International Round...because it is "too hard to shoot 60 and 65 yards". They used to scoff at having to shoot 80...give 'em the option down to a max of 65 and only 3 shots, and now "65 is too far for us to shoot."???

Goes with the times I guess...the kids are all caught up with internet, texting, video games, violent video games, tweeting, twittering...anything but getting outdoors and getting some exercise. Tennis courts are vacant, baseball diamonds are vacant...it is soccer, MAYBE basket ball, but mostly potato chips and boob tubes.

The NFAA has concerned itself this year with arrow wraps on the back of a 27 diameter arrow as being "illegal"...but only if protested. However, there has been NOTHING done to alleviate the increased occurrences to people sky drawing the bows in an uncontrolled and UNSAFE manner....Almost totally ignored...and many think that this practice is just fine, since nobody has been hit YET, and that several of the top PROS do it, so it must be OK????

The 3/5 day format arguments continue every single year, and the die-hards still demand 5 days of shooting...when every other association does their big shoots on a WEEKEND...Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. This has proven to be successful...but, no, the NFAA won't budge.
Same goes with the age limit in the NFAA at 55 for Senior, and 65 for Master Senior...the ONLY association on the planet that still has this arrangement...and steadfastly doesn't intend upon changing it and many of the leadership aren't about to let this change either.

Rant and rave, yes! The NFAA needs a paid PUBLICITY CHAIRPERSON....and not leave it up to the State Associations (many of which are on a thin line for survival), and finally to the club level...when most club members are devout rubber deer shooters that know nothing about NFAA, and don't want to learn either.

field14 (Tom D.)


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## hdracer

rsw said:


> One championship shoot per year is all the NFAA could do because of the extraordinary support reqts of the shoot. It isn't quite like setting up an ASA event with 3D targets and paid help to get it all together. *There aren't enough Field Ranges (almost none) willing to expend the effort *(with only 4-5 people to shoulder the load) for the small financial return as well as too few shooters who would support the tour. That isn't to say it can't be done, but the effort would be Herculean in comparison with regard to fiscal return. ASA has well over 1000 shooters, but NFAA struggles to get 300 anymore. It really would be great to have an NFAA tour like ASA.



I don't know about that. We have a 14 target course that we would like to increase to 28. Money and participation, or the lack thereof, would keep that from happening. We have the land, and I could get the help to host a larger tournament. We'd like to get the Great Lakes Sectional to come to our club but that won't happen with only 14 targets. There are many courses (from what I've read) in PA, MD and NC, maybe VA, too. I guess it just depends on the locale.

FITA Tournaments around here garner a 100+ shooters for the state level shoots. You shoot almost 100 arrows a day. If you figured up the actual walking distance, I'm sure it would rival a Field course (at least ours). Getting accurate sight tapes for the shooters who only need 4 for a FITA is challenging, especially the recurves. But our local JOAD club has started pointing the shooters in the direction of Field to give them something else to try. Last year's state Field had 5-6 JOAD recurve shooters compete. Although it was very hot, they enjoyed themselves.

Maybe it is just a matter of talking up the format, highlighting the positives and downplaying the "negatives". I enjoy shooting Field, and although our course will need a lot of work after this winter I'm really looking forward to shooting it in a couple months.


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## rock monkey

field14 said:


> You and I were so fortunate to have been able to compete when "field archery" was ruling the roost. I still think that 4-5 hours to shoot only 40 shots is ridiculous...but hey, people are lining up at the gates to get in, so what do I know? hahaha.
> I guess that what I know, and obviously you too, know is that unless the NFAA leadership gets their head out of the sand and makes some MAJOR changes to their modus operendi, the OUTDOOR portion of it is doomed.
> 
> I certainly agree concerning the availability of time, money, people, and LAND. The International Round you suggest is something that pretty much MUST happen as land becomes a premium, and the "work force" to maintain a course ages and gets less and less inclined to maintain the field courses that USED to exist. Fewer by the month. Many places have gone down to only 14 targets instead of the old standby 28. If the club doesn't OWN the land, so many are being either forced to take up less space, or are kicked out all together.
> I've seen field course shut down so that the locals could use the place for "walking paths", and 'jogging routes', bicycle paths, horse-back riding, mountain biking, you name it. The reasons given are varied, but one of the biggest? Simple; "You guys aren't USING it like you used to."
> Local ranges tend to PROMOTE ONLY RUBBER DEER...they don't care about the field courses around, even if they know they are there....it is to them, all about rubber deer, because so few target bows and setups are being purchased for OUTDOOR shooting (and not many for indoor either). However....3-D setups; especially FAST ONES are selling like hot cakes. Don't have to practice the countless hours to shoot rubber deer either, and people just aren't willing to dedicate the time and effort these days.
> 
> Clubs have TRIED and tried again all sorts of things, anything from having an International Round set up during a 3-D event right there on the practice range, to setting up 1/2 field and 1/2 3-D right on thru everything...and to no avail.
> Yet...as I said earlier, they will stand there throwing arrows into the trees at a turkey set at 100 yards and laugh about it all day long...some of them laughing at losing $12 arrows by the dozen. They won't, however shoot even a 30 arrow half International Round...because it is "too hard to shoot 60 and 65 yards". They used to scoff at having to shoot 80...give 'em the option down to a max of 65 and only 3 shots, and now "65 is too far for us to shoot."???
> 
> Goes with the times I guess...the kids are all caught up with internet, texting, video games, violent video games, tweeting, twittering...anything but getting outdoors and getting some exercise. Tennis courts are vacant, baseball diamonds are vacant...it is soccer, MAYBE basket ball, but mostly potato chips and boob tubes.
> 
> The NFAA has concerned itself this year with arrow wraps on the back of a 27 diameter arrow as being "illegal"...but only if protested. However, there has been NOTHING done to alleviate the increased occurrences to people sky drawing the bows in an uncontrolled and UNSAFE manner....Almost totally ignored...and many think that this practice is just fine, since nobody has been hit YET, and that several of the top PROS do it, so it must be OK????
> 
> The 3/5 day format arguments continue every single year, and the die-hards still demand 5 days of shooting...when every other association does their big shoots on a WEEKEND...Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. This has proven to be successful...but, no, the NFAA won't budge.
> Same goes with the age limit in the NFAA at 55 for Senior, and 65 for Master Senior...the ONLY association on the planet that still has this arrangement...and steadfastly doesn't intend upon changing it and many of the leadership aren't about to let this change either.
> 
> *Rant and rave, yes! The NFAA needs a paid PUBLICITY CHAIRPERSON....and not leave it up to the State Associations (many of which are on a thin line for survival), and finally to the club level...when most club members are devout rubber deer shooters that know nothing about NFAA, and don't want to learn either.*
> 
> field14 (Tom D.)


you mean like this?

page 14 of the 2010-2011 cb/l


ARTICLE V
Duties of Officers and the Executive Secretary

*2. Vice-President:*
2.1 The Vice-President shall serve as a member of the NFAA Council.
2.2 Perform the duties of the President if the President is unable to act.
*2.3 Coordinate public relations of the NFAA.*


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## nock tune

My opinion is the new regime are trying to squash the NFAA in favor of the WAF, that leaves field shooting as the red headed step child!!!!


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## grantmac

I'd like to see the NFAA align its equipment classes and event format with World Archery (FITA) field. The format is more logical, more space efficient and has actual international competition possibility. Adopting the classes would allow competing within more organizations without having to change equipment or technique.
Its time to get WA, IFAA and WA somewhere near the same page. Together we stand, you know the rest......

-Grant


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## Kade

grantmac said:


> I'd like to see the NFAA align its equipment classes and event format with World Archery (FITA) field. The format is more logical, more space efficient and has actual international competition possibility. Adopting the classes would allow competing within more organizations without having to change equipment or technique.
> Its time to get WA, IFAA and WA somewhere near the same page. Together we stand, you know the rest......
> 
> -Grant


That aint gonna happen. To many people with say are worried about collecting bowls. There are WAY too many classes. 

I am with you. Shoot what ya brung. It's an archery competition. Either your shooting for fun so class doesn't really matter or your serious. If you think you can hang with me shooting pins then come on and do it. There isn't a drawing when you decide to shoot TARGET archery and your stuck with what you get. I shoot FS because that's what I am most accurate with. If your most accurate with pins then great. If you want to shoot a scope great. But if I shoot a scope better then I shoot pins why in the heck am I gonna go shoot a TOURNAMENT or in a class with equipment that I am less accurate with?

That's like guys on the PGA saying, no I am gonna use these balls from the 80s and a wood driver. Of course that's an exaggeration but you get the idea.


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## hdracer

FITA Field here in Ohio has even less of a following than NFAA Field. Last year there were 13 shooters at the FITA State Field shoot. Many of us were from the NFAA side of the fence. This year, as far as I know, one hasn't been scheduled. Alot of the FITA shooters I 've talked to about Field say they used to shoot it but gave up. The reason is many of them don't like walking the terrain. I guess we're all getting old...:wink:


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## grantmac

I shoot FITA Barebow, the NFAA doesn't have any category where I can compete with my equipment and technique. I'll shoot Trad for 3D but trying to do the field course using Trad technique is beyond frustrating, going up against the BB compounds is a joke. Lets face it BB compound is a class on its last breath, BB recurve is among the most popular classes in FITA field yet its got no venue in the US.
The FITA rules aren't perfect, but at least they limit equipment and let the contestants decide which techiques they want to use.

-Grant


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## rsw

Catch 22 raises its ugly head when you discuss NFAA classes and divisions. Reducing the number of classes or divisions would be a great move; however, by doing so, the NFAA likely would lose 30-40 per cent of its very few shooters. Also at risk is the fact that many of we loyal field archers (those who keep the org. at least partially vital) are rapidly getting too old to keep shooting and, frankly, when the majority of us quit, I fear field archery will quickly die on the vine.


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## Targetnut

It's unfortunate that this discussion even has to happen. I guess most of us are biased with our ferver for field archery, and there seems to be no good reason anyone with a bow would not want to "shoot a round" whenever the opportunity comes about. 
Currently there is a downward spiral, Less attendance,,, less motivation for clubs to have shoots and keep up ranges,,, less places for people to get exposed,, less archers.....
I agree with RSW, this needs to addressed at all levels, and a bunch of people that don't actively participate running the show is just not helping the situation at all.
Encouraging some sort of abbreviated round such as the international round is a great idea.


For whatever reason it is happening, the decline is evident and there needs to be some changes.


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## carlosii

field is not a killer. as an old geezer, i've shot field (28 targets) and walked off not all beat up. of course i don't shoot 70 pounds...more like 48. i'd shoot it every weekend if i could, but there are no ranges within easy driving distance. if i had the room i'd put in my own 14 target range.


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## J-Daddy

I'd shoot field all the time if there was more of it around here... I only get to go to 1 field shoot a year here in Iowa.

sent from my mobile porn viewing device!!!


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## rsarns

I get to shoot 1 or 2 Field events a year as only a few clubs within 4 hours have a field course, so usually hit our State and the Sectional... and the Nationals when it is out here... really want to go to Mechanicsburg this year... gotta get my sponsor (wife) to buy off on it...


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## CarbonTerry

Because it takes a lot of effort to become proficient. I want to become good RIGHT NOW. Field archery is HARD !!!!


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## ahunter55

Field archery seperates the Men/Women from the boys/girls.. It's not a 30 or 40 arrow 3-D, It's 112 arrows from 28 targets 10 thru 80 yds. Uphill, down hill & flat. Not 1 target set up is the same. Degree of up or downhill or angle does make a difference. Once you get past 40 yds, many find out their not quite as good as they thought as on the 3-D course. I love it & this is my favorite round .


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## daleofmesa

As has been said above, it is not easy and there are limited places to practice.
Dale


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## Nova_Archer

Field is all I've been shooting lately. I've only had a bow for a couple of years and really haven't had a chance to shoot much but until recently. I recently joined a club with that has a field course, it's very challenging. I'm digging it and I really enjoy getting to shoot out to 80 yards. 

I'm surprise it's not more popular.


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## ahunter55

For me Field is the most difficult of anything available when it comes to competition BUT still my favorite. So many variables & every field course has "different" terrain for any given distance. I personally feel a 3-D round will always go to the "shooter" that "knows" where that 12 ring is "for sure".. In a field round (or any other competition), we all know the distance & where the "spot" is. Even in known 3-D distance the 12 ring may be elusive to some not knowing where it actually is (I know, thats the shooters responsibility to know).


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## CuBob

I haven’t shot a field round in 17 years, but now that I have retired I want to get back into it. I agree with the comments about it being the most challenging round . Unfortunately I have moved to southwest Michigan (Holland) and cannot find any information on local clubs having a field round. If anyone knows of a location please let me know. I checked with a the local pro shop and was told no one is interested in field anymore.


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## wa-prez

CuBob said:


> I haven’t shot a field round in 17 years, but now that I have retired I want to get back into it.  I agree with the comments about it being the most challenging round . Unfortunately I have moved to southwest Michigan (Holland) and cannot find any information on local clubs having a field round. If anyone knows of a location please let me know. I checked with a the local pro shop and was told no one is interested in field anymore.


You might try in the state specific forum for Michigan.

Also every state has one (or two) state archery associations. Here is for Michigan:
Michigan Archers Association | All Archery for All Archers 




__





Michigan Archers Association | All Archery for All Archers







www.michiganarchersassociation.com


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## CuBob

wa-prez said:


> You might try in the state specific forum for Michigan.
> 
> Also every state has one (or two) state archery associations. Here is for Michigan:
> Michigan Archers Association | All Archery for All Archers
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Michigan Archers Association | All Archery for All Archers
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.michiganarchersassociation.com


Thanks


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## carlosii

When I was a teenager field was just about all we had. Stick bows and straw bales. Quit shooting when I went off to college and didn't take it seriously until I retired. Shot some compound including lots of ASA pro ams and a field once a year as well as state senior games.
I'm kind of tired of compound and 3D so I ordered a recurve set up and hope to go shoot those 80 yard shots again. My memory is we enjoyed the field round with the old stick bows an awful lot.


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## carlosii

Each state gets money from the federal excise tax on archery equipment. Some of that money was supposed to go to build and support archery facilities. Most states pay lip service and use as little of the money for facilities that they can get away with. Usually they just use it for bowhunter education and other DNR activities.
There's an 11% excise tax on just about all archery equipment and another fifty cents per shaft on arrows. The excise tax generates something in the neighborhood of $40 million dollars a year while the tax on arrows adds another $10 million. (Source is ATA web site.) I have no idea how the money is apportioned to the states. Add the archery taxes to the money raised by the tax on firearms and fishing tackle and all of that is returned to the states. You would think a field range or two could be set up on public land in each state to support the sport. 
Since most states don't do a lot to support hunting and wildlife conservation and instead leave it up to the fed, there's not much that gets trickled down to the sport of archery.
Mumblings for the day over. Please move along.


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## Mr. Ken

For me, I like indoor, field and the Senior Olympics. 3-D is last place for me. I am only getting warmed up with 30 shots. I don't like the wait either. The only wait in Field matches is waiting for the group ahead to score and pull arrows. The closest field range to me is about an hour and the next closest field range is a 2 &1/2 hour drive. If I had about 30 acres to use, I would surely think about putting a field range in. Sadly around my local area, there is very few target archers. What is bad is that I have an archery shop about 15 miles from me. I asked him about archery matches and competition, he told me that was all but dead. He is only interested in helping the bow hunters. I even tried to ask him a couple of target archery questions, and he could not answer them. I got the feeling that I was bothering him and he really wasn't even interested. So he doesn't get any of my business. There is another shop about 35-40 miles from me. I take my business to this shop. They are more target and competition friendly. One of the employees actually shoots a few tournaments.


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## Magoo71

When I lived in the States I was part of a club that had a field range and I shot that every second time I went out. If I couldn’t finish that day I’d pick up from the next target on my next visit.
I think field isn’t as popular because it’s very technical and just being a good shooter won’t always help you on a challenging field course. 
it’s demanding on a lot of different levels including physical fitness. This can change from course to course around the US. I lived in WNC so you got good at shooting up down and across the terrain. 
aside from that I think the biggest challenge for field is it isn’t glamorous like ASA or indoor.


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## kballer1

Seems to be to much thinking as you have to shoot 4 good arrows not just 1 so 112 for score seems to be to much for the average 3D shooter. Most of the time I drive from 2 to 3 hours to shoot a field round or a 900 round, but won't walk across the road to shoot a 3D stand & wait & take over 4 hours for 40 arrows sucks & rubber line pullers drives me nuts. Been shooting field & 900 rounds since 1968 & have only shot 1 3D round & will never shoot another one!


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