# problem with archers advantage and my marks



## BOONER2008 (Mar 5, 2008)

i'm new to this kinda stuff so i was hoping that someone can help me. ok here it goes, i'm shooting a c-4 ,28.5 draw,54lbs weight and easton navigators,also a sure-loc supreme 400 with a cr apex scope. i went to the range and sighted in for 20yrds, then move my pointer on the outside of the sight to 20mark. i then shot at 40-60-80yrds and recorded my marks from there. i went home and put my marks in the archers advantage program and printed some tapes and the marks. the tapes are off about 3yrds up to 50yrds and move the further you go back. did i do something wrong with sighting in or something with the info i inputed??? what is the correct way of finding marks and making tapes. i thank you in advance.


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## DRFrance (Feb 4, 2006)

*measurements*

The exact measurements you enter into the program application are necessary for your sight tape prints. The program requires you to take exact measurements of your bow at full draw for best results.

At full draw and expecially important to your sight alignment paradox is the distance from your peep to your sight pin/lens and also the distance of your peep center to your arrow shaft.

The computer software simply calculates the geometry for you and you should be able to print a range of sight marks with one to be exact for you on the page.


The application with accurate data can be very convenient.
You can sight in a 20 and an 80 mark and everything inbetween should be right on (maybe even better than we can shoot it in for ourselves).

Good luck. If you need more technical help you can go to the website and contact the main man there for service.


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## BOONER2008 (Mar 5, 2008)

*help*

thank you very much for the info and your time


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## The Swami (Jan 16, 2008)

Don't forget to build your arrow in AA. Make sure it is right too. AA needs that info on the arrows to help calculate the marks.


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## Bob_Looney (Nov 17, 2003)

AA needs good step/step setup instructions.


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

DO NOT FORGET TO COUNT THE "CLICKS" that you are "in between" those numbers on the site bar! Those "CLICKS" are important....extremely important.

For example...on my slow, short DL target bow...at 20 yards.....I can still hit the bullseye on the field face...between 21.5 (the number 21 and 10 clicks) and 22.7 (the number 22 and 14 clicks)...that is 2.2 X 20 clicks = 44 clicks of the site and STILL hit the bullseye at 20 yards!

Heck at 30 yards, I can keep them top of bull to bottom of bull...with 31 clicks of difference in my site setting.

SO>...GARBAGE IN = GARBAGE OUT....getting them "in the bullseye" is NOT good enough for a reliable site tape...getting the in the X-ring INSIDE OUT....is a heck of a lot better...but getting them solidly on a 1/2" wide HORIZONTAL TAPE at 30 yards.....PRICELESS....and on a 3/4" to 1" wide HORIZONTAL TAPE at 65 yards...MORE PRICELESS.

The more accurate you are in getting those "numbers" and COUNTING THE CLICKS and NOT ROUNDING UP OR DOWN....the better the site tapes turn out.

Rule of thumb...if your site marks from bunny to about 44 yards are off...but your long ones aren't too bad...then your 20 or 30 yarder is off...by how much? depends upon how bad those misses at the other distances are.

If your site settings from 44 on out are off...then most likely the 65 yarder is garbage; and needs refinement.

If all of them are off...then you put garbage in there, and/or you mismeasured the site to peep distance, AND the peep height at full draw...and didn't get that accurate AND you didn't count your clicks on the site bar for those "numbers" you plugged into the PC.

And everyone seems to think that using the PC is an automatic "accurate" set of site marks! Not so fast folks! The numbers you use had better be GOOD ONES, or you've just wasted time and effort for "close"

Remember, close only counts in: horseshoes, hand grenades, and nuclear weapons....and, JOKINGLY...no...I'm not going to say that! hahahahaha.

field14:tongue::wink:


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## Jbird (May 21, 2002)

*Another Trick with Sight Tapes*

If you double check the data input and it checks out and you spent enough time to be sure of your marks (a good check on that is to shoot them in one day and then reshoot them the next). If they are still good but some of your marks are off (example: short distances out to 40 yards are good but as you move further back you are shooting low), you can play with the speed of the arrow. If your sight software says your calculated speed is 245 fps then try changing it to 244 or 243 fps and compare the tape against your marks with 
a divider. As you lower the speed your long marks should move closer to the center in the above example. Sometimes it only takes going from 245 fps to
244.5 fps to get the marks spot on. Sometimes because of anchor issues you can get all the marks right except the 80 yarder. Nothing says you can't just shoot the 80 in till you can consistantly hit the dot and use the numbers for that shot.
Another tip I got from a world class field shooter is that he shoots a 30 yard and a 90 yard mark in and when he does that, his 80 yard mark is always good. Of course you have to be a pretty good shot to shoot in a solid 90 yard mark. LOL

P.S. Lost my head and posted this in the Pro forum and I'm not a Pro. At least the info
came to me from one of the top 3 Field Pro's in the country.

Jbird


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## Dadpays (Oct 11, 2006)

*Why the need for AA?*

Booner,
Hey, can I use you for an experiment? No really! I was wondering why everyone has to use AA or OT2 to get their sight settings. I think I can do just as well with some engineering graph paper, a French curve and EXCEL. You said you shot at about 4 or 5 distances and recorded the setting, can you send those settings to me and the distance? I would actually prefer your closest and longest distances and about three in between approximately equally spaced. I will know immediately if a setting is off if it doesn't lie on the curve and may ask you to go re-shoot it. I will send you back what I think your settings should be based on my "homemade" method for comparison to AA. I've used this method for a while with my son, but I recently refined it a bit and felt comfortable enough with it to use it at a FITA field shoot (meters instead of yards) and it worked great. Of course you get no sight tape, but, well......your sight already has one right?


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

I have a "calculator" system that I used before the advent of the "techno-toys"...that worked to near perfection and could be done in little to no time using a simple hand calculator, your 20 and 65 yard settings, and some "conversion constants"....in fact, I used this system and shot my highest ever field/hunter scores...for years BEFORE the "techno-toys" came out.

Before that, we "shot them in"...and Terry Ragsdale 'shot them in' when he shot his first ever perfect 560 hunter in national competition...no cut charts, no rangefinder, no palm pilot, to clinometer...just solid shooting and experience.

Do you NEED to have AA or OT2 to get site settings...absolutely not. Knowing what is garbage and what isn't can sometimes take MORE TIME than just shooting your marks in...a lot more time for some people.

I use AA and OT2 to generate a tape...but I only have the tape on there as a backup...electing to use a placard with the actual numbers and clicks on it...because that is what I'm used to after nearly 30 years of a placard system.

Today's shooters just don't have the time, or perhaps won't TAKE the time to shoot in their settings; either that or they will take every shortcut possible to try to circumvent experience. In some respects I do agree that it is next to impossible for them to "catch up" to the more experienced shooters that can "read" a target as good or better than a clinometer/rangefinder can "give it to you."
I know for a fact that many of the top shooters that use the techno-toys use them as a "backup" to their gut feeling on questionable targets. Nearly all of them that I've spoken with have told me that 99.9% of the time, their "gut feeling" was right in the first place...but it is nice to verify that.

The bottom line is: if you don't shoot the same shot from arrow to arrow...you don't get the same result. This translates into "garbage in to garbage out" when you use OT2 and AA....they can only give you the results you plug in there.

To blame the computer programs for "bad site tapes" is ludicrous! THEY didn't give you bad site tapes...you gave the computer BAD information....from BAD data...that came from BAD shots...OR...the range you got the BAD information from...was mis-marked/measured...

That is where the 'experience' cannot be short-cut! You just gotta LEARN sooner or later to get GOOD SHOTS and make darned sure that the good shot information is what is plugged into the computer. Otherwise, it will be faster to just go shoot each and every mark in and go for it. Then refine those as you get more "experienced".

You see, there are NO SHORT-CUTS to getting those evasive 550+ field/hunter scores...you gotta put in the QUALIT"Y...NOT the quantity. You gotta pay attention to what things are telling you...garbage in = garbage out. It isn't the OT2 or AA that is "inaccurate" it is YOU that is inaccurate/inconsistent. The sooner the shooter realizes there is something wrong with THEM and admits it...the better they'll get a giving OT2 and AA the correct information.

field14:tongue::wink:


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## AKRuss (Jan 10, 2003)

I use Archer's Advantage. I sight in at 20, 50 and 80 yards. On a Sure-Loc, there are 20 clicks between marks and as stated above you need to be accurate. Junk in - junk out, and all that. So say 7 clicks past the 21 mark is 21.35, 10 clicks would be 21.50, etc. I like to check and make sure the three marks are correctly shown on the sight marks before I print them. When my 3 sight marks are on the money, the entire tape is right on too.


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## njshadowwalker (Aug 14, 2004)

I shoot a 30 and a 50 yard mark and then confirm at 80. If no good ill fine tune a click here and there and the marks have worked out dead nuts for me every time. I put measurements in the program that are measured to the 64th though. So relly getting anal about the measurements may help get you closer.


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## PACKCG (Oct 12, 2007)

*ben pearson*

It's Been A Long Time, But I Use To Use The Ole Ben Pearson Sight Tapes After They Were Cut From A Laminated Sheet Of Paper ,the Start Point Was Shooting A 20 Yarder And A 60 Yarder And From Those Points Dial In The Tape That Lined Up To Those Marks Cut It Out To Fit And Attach To Sight Bar , Shot A 528 On The State Hunter Round, So Those Tapes To Me Were Not To Shaby As For Me Anyway, Of Course To This Date That Has Been My Best Score And Still Proud Of It. Does Anyone Out There Have Any Left????


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## AKRuss (Jan 10, 2003)

Lancaster Archery sells sight tapes but I've never found one that fit anything I was shooting. I believe they have both compound and recurve tapes.


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## centerx (Jun 13, 2002)

I shoot a 20 and 70 for my AA program…. However I also shoot a 30-40-50 and 60 just to make sure everything lines up. Since AA gives you a range of sight marks when you print them I find this useful in picking the one that fits best 

Saying that however my current tape is 1 yard hot on 32 yarders or less and about .5 yards hot on everything over that. Obviously I need to tweak a little BUT having shot in a few other marks allowed me to confirm that right off the bat

They can be off as long as you KNOW how much they are off. Now if it was .5 or 1 yard across the entire range I would move my indicator


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