# Why do so many archery greats hang it up?



## S4 300-60 (Mar 18, 2003)

Well, I know for a fact Joe Kapp hasn't hung it up, as for the others, maybe it is the evolution of the game, at least in the pro class.....I'm only 28 and starting to feel like an old man...........and there are not alot of Barnsdales in the world.......


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

I ain't no "Great shooter" and never will be....but I ain't hanging it up quite yet.

I've heard things like: "BOREDOM"

I've heard things like "Taget Panic hit me, and I couldn't take it anymore, so I gave it up."

I got into a slump, and it just ruined it for me, cuz I didn't have the time anymore or the desire to work through it.

I've heard things like, "It wasn't FUN anymore for me." I hear this a lot from friends that have quit.

Family obligations...remember, a lot of the top guns are pretty young...and once they have families and start paying their own bills, priorities change.

Financial reasons related to above....

HASSLES from many outside sources and some inside ones.

Hopefully, some of the other better shooters that I that either quit and keep in touch, or quit and came back later can chime in.

field14:wink:


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## rock monkey (Dec 28, 2002)

well, ive had people tell me im not a real archer because i dont shoot 3d.

they didnt tell me i know what im doing because at the time, i worked at gander mtn.

when you get people that only know archery from within the pages of a magzine, and ONLY shoot local telling a NATIONALLY ranked champion and consistant top performer he isnt that impressive all the time. it tends to wear on ya.

cousin dave doesnt post here anymore. could it be enuff people telling him he doesnt know what he's doin?

reo doesnt post very much. the night he was in the chatroom, someone asked him why he doesnt shoot 3d. his reply was to the effect that he doesnt have the time to invest in making 3d a priority in his life. i dont blame him. the games played with the scoring rings within the governing orgs, the time and money it takes to develope an estimation routine with all the different targets. ...and they change from year to year also. 

its much easier to perfect your form on a format that doesnt change week to week. you know what the course will be, for the most part. your only variables are the weather and your mind.

some just plain suffer burnout of the tournament circuit.

i have not said, nor will i say the top pros of other venues are lesser archers. not now, not ever. BUT the fanboys of the non spot venues do not give the spot shooting pros near enuff credit and appreciation for their dedication of time and conviction to the rounds they shoot.

are any of the cut books from darrington still available?


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## swerve (Jun 5, 2005)

Cousin Dave is around more than you think.:wink: Reo has been popping in fairly regularly lately also. Dean was in this morning. Hopefully with our own place to play, the atmosphere might be more condusive to getting their input.


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## JAVI (Jun 19, 2003)

Burn out from one source or another will force some from the game.


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## Archerone (Mar 30, 2006)

The price of archery! Only a few can make a living doing it. You will find most of them still in the game either have ties in the archery business or have good jobs which gives them time off. I do not know of any retirement system/health plan in archery for shooters. Back in the 90's it cost about $10,000-$12,000 a year to hit the tournaments. That is not counting items that are not sponsored and need to be bought. Most top archers go without a normal life.


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## JohnR (Apr 5, 2007)

*Need to quit field archery*

Money..motels, gas, equipment, etc.
Less sponsorships
Age and related ailments...no place to sit on the ranges:sad:
Spoil sports changing the rules every year
Single cam bowsukey:
Money....


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## Dave T (Mar 24, 2004)

SuperX said:


> I see others who don't quit - Dean, Frank & Becky are great examples of people who were doing this for decades and still compete with the best of them.


I can sure vouch for Frank Pearson. He was the top scorer in our State International Round yesterday. He is generally the one to beat when he shows up at any of our state shoots.

Dave


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## WV Has Been (Aug 9, 2002)

He whom has invested the time seldom reeks the award to make it worth his while. To even be competitive in the top classes of archery takes the dedication equivalent of a second job. The reward of this dedication is regularly minuet. Once the thirst of self satisfaction is quenched, only those with love for the game remain.

Does that make sense???


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## JAVI (Jun 19, 2003)

WV Has Been said:


> He whom has invested the time seldom reeks the award to make it worth his while. To even be competitive in the top classes of archery takes the dedication equivalent of a second job. The reward of this dedication is regularly minuet. Once the thirst of self satisfaction is quenched, only those with love for the game remain.
> 
> Does that make sense???


For once....:wink:


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## XQuest (May 5, 2003)

*Well,I can tell you why I haven't left Archery*

There's just nothing I'd rather do than shoot my bow and arrow.Target or hunting,I enjoy every minute of it.


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## Hinkelmonster (Oct 25, 2004)

WV Has Been said:


> He whom has invested the time seldom reeks the award to make it worth his while. To even be competitive in the top classes of archery takes the dedication equivalent of a second job. The reward of this dedication is regularly minuet. Once the thirst of self satisfaction is quenched, only those with love for the game remain.
> 
> Does that make sense???


Agreed!!!!!

Well said as usual!


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## SuperX (May 21, 2002)

WV Has Been said:


> He whom has invested the time seldom reeks the award to make it worth his while. To even be competitive in the top classes of archery takes the dedication equivalent of a second job. The reward of this dedication is regularly minuet. Once the thirst of self satisfaction is quenched, only those with love for the game remain.
> 
> Does that make sense???


so some of these greats don't want to play unless they can will at any time? They didn't love archery they loved winning and when winning stopped they stopped competing?

Maybe that is why we have so many shooting divisions


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## WV Has Been (Aug 9, 2002)

SuperX said:


> so some of these greats don't want to play unless they can will at any time? They didn't love archery they loved winning and when winning stopped they stopped competing?
> 
> Maybe that is why we have so many shooting divisions


No mam.... Thats not what I said.

They feel that the benefit is not worth the effort. They have quenched there thirst of the game. So they need no more to drink.:wink:


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## SuperX (May 21, 2002)

WV Has Been said:


> No mam.... Thats not what I said.
> 
> They feel that the benefit is not worth the effort. They have quenched there thirst of the game. So they need no more to drink.:wink:



ah, I get it now... so do you think it was too easy or too hard for them so that the benefit wasn't worth the effort?


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## GeorgD (Nov 18, 2002)

I don't know if it's the same reason for any of the above mentioned archers. Maybe different things. But for sure, it takes so much work and dedication to stay at the top. I know Dave injured his back, if I remember correctly, and then had some family stuff happen. When Dave was at the top of his game he he told me he would shoot 400 arrows a night. (Dave also runs his own constuction business.) He said 400 good arrows.

Terry and Michele I know were really tired of all the traveling and Terry was working on his nursing degree. Terry got his degree and bought a nice fishing boat. Sometimes maybe you just need to chill and do some of the other things you wanted to do in life.

I will say this, the top archers of the past that I've had the pleasure to meet were very kind and thoughful to me. Always willing to help. They are missed by many...


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## NEVADAPRO (Jul 5, 2007)

*For me...*

It was a combination of things. I owned a Pro shop and in 1991 I took second at The Trop Shoot (Vegas, while it was at the Tropicana Hotel!) and between working 12 hours a day, 7 days a week at the shop and finally shooting good a Vegas, it was just a mental let down! I had either ran or owned a shop for the better part of 25 years and after shooting Vegas for 20 of those and finally shooting well, I needed a break! Little did I know that the break would be my back! After 4 back surgeries, I am finally back (albeit older!) and have the fire again! I'm going to shoot in the Pro division at Vegas in 08 and try and shoot a full calender of events, both indoors and out. Sometimes you have to have something taken from you before you realize how much you loved it! :wink:


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## JAVI (Jun 19, 2003)

SuperX said:


> ah, I get it now... so do you think it was too easy or too hard for them so that the benefit wasn't worth the effort?


Not that I was ever one of the greats... BUT

It wasn’t too easy or too difficult, it just wasn’t fun anymore. I stood on the stake looking at a target one day and realized that I didn’t care if I hit it or not; I still loved to shoot but not to compete. 

I did the same thing in Illinois 3 years ago while hunting… I was at full draw on a 150” buck and realized I didn’t care if I shot it or not… It just happens….

In my case I’m finding a renewed desire to compete which is fueled by the great folks that I have had the privilege of teaching over the passed three or four years. Their vigor and commitment have inspired me to work on my game. 

Now it becomes a matter of money, time and family commitment. If you are going to shoot a full schedule of national events it requires an employer who is willing to see you absent from work and a financial condition that allows you to forego that income and still provide for the family and retirement. Many, many things like older parents and their needs, grandkids and spending time with them, just seem to take priority over traveling and shooting as you get older.


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## mdbowhunter (Oct 22, 2002)

A lifestyle change that makes shooting at their once 'high level' impossible to maintain. Work and family needs change over time. Kids come along who require our time, attention and guidance, as they should. 

IMHO many of us have less time nowadays to devote to recreation, like archery. My son is grown and gone but my job demands more of me than ever. And I thought an 'empty nest' would mean more spare time!


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

JAVI said:


> Not that I was ever one of the greats... BUT
> 
> It wasn’t too easy or too difficult, it just wasn’t fun anymore. I stood on the stake looking at a target one day and realized that I didn’t care if I hit it or not; I still loved to shoot but not to compete.
> 
> ...



Javi, 

We certainly have a lot in common....I, too, let a book class white-tail go cuz I just couln't bring myself to "pull the trigger'...had him dead to rights TWICE in a space of a couple of minutes...quartering away, head down...he didn't know I was there....let the shot down twice and just watched him do his thing on the scrapes...haven't been in a tree stand since.

Heart attack and surgery literally cut me to pieces...and I haven't had the "fire" since...then the misfortune in Vegas by a couple of dim-wits all but finished the job.

I have a "fire" but it isn't FOR COMPETING...it is for sharing information, and trying to get the how to do it sorted out from all the WHAT TO DO...since I know WHAT to do, most of the time, and also the HOW to do it...but the body will NOT respond to either....and just does things ITS way instead of following brain instructions, hahaha.

I have MORE FUN watching top notch shooters do well, or people I know shoot their best.

field14


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## rsw (May 22, 2002)

Life evolves for us all. As one grows older, it is easy to have a change in priorities. I know many who were very good shooters who passed to other adventures: Stan and Liz; Larry Wise (although he didn't totally leave archery); Mike Leiter and David Hughes were a couple of the very, very best ever who left for a few years, but have come back to enjoy the sport once again; Jack Cramer; Jack Lancaster changed to golf; Randy Chappel and Randy Ulmer. I could go on and on. The best archers in the world are not necessarily those who shoot today. Family, finances, other interests, etc are the reason they left - not something within the game itself in most cases.

I have stayed with archery for over 60 years now and still enjoy it, but I also have other interests which interfere and might possibly have ended my archery career.


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

Why is it that people can "retire" or move on from other sports or things in life and nobody bats an eye....but in archery there has to be something to it?


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## DarrinM (May 21, 2002)

WV Has Been said:


> No mam.... Thats not what I said.
> 
> They feel that the benefit is not worth the effort. They have quenched there thirst of the game. So they need no more to drink.:wink:


Well you have been listening to me on the phone......:wink:



JAVI said:


> Not that I was ever one of the greats... BUT
> 
> It wasn’t too easy or too difficult, it just wasn’t fun anymore. I stood on the stake looking at a target one day and realized that I didn’t care if I hit it or not; I still loved to shoot but not to compete.
> 
> I did the same thing in Illinois 3 years ago while hunting… I was at full draw on a 150” buck and realized I didn’t care if I shot it or not… It just happens….


That is how it happens and sadly I see this apathy washing over America in general.... Nobody can win or lose anymore growing up. I think this mentality it is starting to wash over into every aspect of life..... I see just a general desire in Americans to be perfectly average.... And If I can't be dumb down the competition until we are EQUAL.............. Life is hard... Harder if your stupid and there are lots of stupid people out there! 



Brown Hornet said:


> Why is it that people can "retire" or move on from other sports or things in life and nobody bats an eye....but in archery there has to be something to it?


Some of the name bantied about are not just "regular" names.... If Tiger, Jeff Gordon, or Peyton quit you'd know about it whether you followed golf, NASACAR or footbal  Look at the attention given to David Duval recently in the golf world......


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

DarrinM said:


> Some of the name bantied about are not just "regular" names.... If Tiger, Jeff Gordon, or Peyton quit you'd know about it whether you followed golf, NASACAR or footbal  Look at the attention given to David Duval recently in the golf world......


I understand that...but what I am saying is that sometimes people realize that it is time to hang em up for whatever the reason is or move on in life.....

When a pitcher retires because he can't throw like he used to and is getting rocked it is no biggie for him to move on....when a top shooter stops shooting it is because he doesn't have it or whatever the reason it thrown out there that the reason is that they can't win so they don't want to play anymore. :embara:

The choice is yours/theirs to make....some just don't want to do it anymore....

Mike still shoots...does he not.:wink: Just because he doesn't go to Nationals or whatever doesn't mean that he doesn't shoot or enjoy shooting....Ulmer still shoots...he just doesn't shoot competitively anymore....


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## JAVI (Jun 19, 2003)

*Darrin*

I see the trend of non-competition in the younger children's sports today and don't agree with it. 

In my case I don't think of it as apathy, instead I believe that as we age our priorities change... Did you not retire from the professional ranks recently? Was that apathy or a change in priorities? 

I know at the time I stilled loved archery, just not enough to forgo my family and their activities in order to pursue the game. Just as I still love to hunt, just not enough to sacrifice the time and money to do so...


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## WV Has Been (Aug 9, 2002)

Brown Hornet said:


> I understand that...but what I am saying is that sometimes people realize that it is time to hang em up for whatever the reason is or move on in life.....
> 
> When a pitcher retires because he can't throw like he used to and is getting rocked it is no biggie for him to move on....when a top shooter stops shooting it is because he doesn't have it or whatever the reason it thrown out there that the reason is that they can't win so they don't want to play anymore. :embara:
> 
> ...



I have a hard time grasping retiring from a career and quiting a hobby are the same thing.


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## thenson (Mar 23, 2004)

Could it be that those that only eye the end result and then achieve it find themselves with nothing left to shoot for, but those that learn to love the journey to the top never lose their love for the sport and the people associated with it?

Goal #1: Never loose the joy of just shooting...

The Goal is to Win, but the Race is never ending.... Eli Goldratt


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## jcmorgan31 (Nov 9, 2005)

I'll let you know my reasons when I decide to hang up my shooting shoes.............er......wait............we were talking about the great ones weren't we???? Nevermind.....:embara:


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

WV Has Been said:


> I have a hard time grasping retiring from a career and quiting a hobby are the same thing.


Maybe so in some ways....but when you put in that much time with your "hobby" it may be like a career......you aren't gonna be great shooting once a month.:wink:


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## DarrinM (May 21, 2002)

Brown Hornet said:


> I understand that...but what I am saying is that sometimes people realize that it is time to hang em up for whatever the reason is or move on in life.....
> 
> When a pitcher retires because he can't throw like he used to and is getting rocked it is no biggie for him to move on....when a top shooter stops shooting it is because he doesn't have it or whatever the reason it thrown out there that the reason is that they can't win so they don't want to play anymore. :embara:
> 
> ...


I agree it is up to the individual to decide when and how to play.... Fact is many choose not to play much after hanging it up competitively.... I would find it hard to shoot and not come somewhat close to hitting my intended target 




JAVI said:


> I see the trend of non-competition in the younger children's sports today and don't agree with it.
> 
> In my case I don't think of it as apathy, instead I believe that as we age our priorities change... Did you not retire from the professional ranks recently? Was that apathy or a change in priorities?
> 
> I know at the time I stilled loved archery, just not enough to forgo my family and their activities in order to pursue the game. Just as I still love to hunt, just not enough to sacrifice the time and money to do so...


I quit the Pro ranks because of apathy and a lack of desire and time. I was apathetic about how I was shooting and found myself attending events not to be the best but rather just to attend. When I looked in the mirror I realized my life had changed and archery was not the priority it once was. Sadly to compete at the level I was at it would require me to spend more time than I wanted to be the best. I still believe if I had the desire I would be right there but I have other goals that are far larger than archery can provide.

I still love archery and have set "mini" goals for myself to attain thru my participation. I believe that I enjoy the game more now than I did from 1989-2004. For me it is the people and the fun. It was never about money and I sadly saw the game changing from fun to money and thought to myself there's better ways to get rich out there  If money was the motivator I knew I had a better shot at my office than I did on the range :embara::zip::wink:i 



WV Has Been said:


> I have a hard time grasping retiring from a career and quiting a hobby are the same thing.


Me too...:tongue:



thenson said:


> Could it be that those that only eye the end result and then achieve it find themselves with nothing left to shoot for, but those that learn to love the journey to the top never lose their love for the sport and the people associated with it?
> 
> Goal #1: Never loose the joy of just shooting...
> 
> The Goal is to Win, but the Race is never ending.... Eli Goldratt



I don't think that I loved the "win" BUT I did enjoy the competition and the travel to the top.... When you get there the journey is somewhat over or do you look at side trails to take? Each has there own path to decide on. My goals were specific and obtainable.... I attained almost all of them in archery. 1400 would be nice but I refuse to go to where I can do it or put the time in to get there now. If I hit the lotto go ahead and pencil me in on that list 

I still like the act of shooting. But I hate the steps necessary to get me to the shooting stage 


In life all races end. The trick is how to motivate and restart your mind to compete again. In golf the FedEx cup ended! NASACR's chase will end in 5 weeks. The World Series will come and go my business will attain levels of profitability that are sufficient to retire on and then I will retire..... In archery my game had paid the dividends that my mind required so I have moved on. 

We can not preload peoples goals or needs. We can only help them achieve their OWN goals and hope they stay with the game as long as we have.


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## DarrinM (May 21, 2002)

Brown Hornet said:


> Maybe so in some ways....but when you put in that much time with your "hobby" it may be like a career......you aren't gonna be great shooting once a month.:wink:


Define great 


Some may just be able to be great in others eyes shooting once a month


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## -bowfreak- (Oct 18, 2006)

JAVI said:


> I see the trend of non-competition in the younger children's sports today and don't agree with it.
> 
> In my case I don't think of it as apathy, instead I believe that as we age our priorities change... Did you not retire from the professional ranks recently? Was that apathy or a change in priorities?
> 
> I know at the time I stilled loved archery, just not enough to forgo my family and their activities in order to pursue the game. Just as I still love to hunt, just not enough to sacrifice the time and money to do so...


I don't like the non-competitive spin on sports now either but I think the really disgusting thing is the behavior of adults at these events. I see the PARENTS at childrens sports being one of the main reasons I hope my kids don't play organized sports. I grew up playing organized sports and thought the earth revolved around them. I was at my 5 yr. old nieces soccer game when they had to cancel the game due to idiot parents not being able to behave. Kicking a soccer ball is not that important and neither is shooting an arrow. But, all of us that shoot arrows seem to understand that sooner or later. 

Could it be that these greats just retire to the back yard or the back forty? It is no fun kicking a soccer ball by yourself but it is still alot of fun to shoot arrows.

Javi, and Field......no matter what changes I have had or will have, Idon't see myself ever passing up P&Y bucks. :wink:

Good Thread.....I know nothing about field or spots but I like this forum.


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

DarrinM said:


> Define great
> 
> 
> Some may just be able to be great in others eyes shooting once a month



Better then pooppy. 

You know what I mean....you are gonna get to where you were and stay there shooting once a month....

I tried it and it doesn't work...525 was the best I could muster. but I still had fun. :wink:


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## XQuest (May 5, 2003)

*Define GREAT?*



DarrinM said:


> Define great
> 
> 
> Some may just be able to be great in others eyes shooting once a month


You should know this Darrin as I do for sure......GREAT is when the children ask you for your autograph on a square of toilet paper.:darkbeer:


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## JAVI (Jun 19, 2003)

XQuest said:


> You should know this Darrin as I do for sure......GREAT is when the children ask you for your autograph on a square of toilet paper.:darkbeer:


I'll remember that in Vegas...:wink:


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## DarrinM (May 21, 2002)

XQuest said:


> You should know this Darrin as I do for sure......GREAT is when the children ask you for your autograph on a square of toilet paper.:darkbeer:


Ahh yes the joys of Prodom...........

You my friend are not great........
























You are a LEGEND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Humbly in your shadow I will forever be......


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## NEVADAPRO (Jul 5, 2007)

*Exactly!!*



DarrinM said:


> Ahh yes the joys of Prodom...........
> 
> You my friend are not great........
> 
> ...



I think LEGEND says it all!! Anyone who can make a release like this one, is a legend in my book!


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

XQuest said:


> You should know this Darrin as I do for sure......GREAT is when the children ask you for your autograph on a square of toilet paper.:darkbeer:


What is easier to sign.....Quilted Northern or Cottenell? :noidea: I don't want to hand you the wrong thing.


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## XQuest (May 5, 2003)

*What memories*

that release brings.......and I'll remember to bring a pen to Vegas...:cocktail:
Sure like this new forum.


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

XQuest said:


> that release brings.......and I'll remember to bring a pen to Vegas...:cocktail:
> Sure like this new forum.


You aren't the only one.:wink:


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## NEVADAPRO (Jul 5, 2007)

*Release*



XQuest said:


> that release brings.......and I'll remember to bring a pen to Vegas...:cocktail:
> Sure like this new forum.


That is still the smoothest, best built release I have ever shot! And I have shot alot! I had it at one of the shops in our area and a few of the Carter shooters tried it and all had the same smile on their faces! I had to say not for sale 4 times!:wink:


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## swerve (Jun 5, 2005)

XQuest said:


> that release brings.......and I'll remember to bring a pen to Vegas...:cocktail:
> Sure like this new forum.


And How:cocktail:


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## SuperX (May 21, 2002)

WV Has Been said:


> He whom has invested the time seldom reeks the award to make it worth his while. To even be competitive in the top classes of archery takes the dedication equivalent of a second job. The reward of this dedication is regularly minuet. Once the thirst of self satisfaction is quenched, only those with love for the game remain.
> 
> Does that make sense???


the thing that prompted my question was the fact that there are two camps here - some just keep shooting and seem to care less how they do... others fade away after reaching their goals.

I don't buy the argument that this happens everywhere - if you look at poker, billiards, and other "hobbies" out there, I don't think they suffer the same level of attrition from the top ranks as Archery does.


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## JAVI (Jun 19, 2003)

SuperX said:


> the thing that prompted my question was the fact that there are two camps here - some just keep shooting and seem to care less how they do... others fade away after reaching their goals.
> 
> I don't buy the argument that this happens everywhere - if you look at poker, billiards, and other "hobbies" out there, I don't think they suffer the same level of attrition from the top ranks as Archery does.


Won't compute... at least not the two hobbies you named... Those you can make a living at if you're even a little good... When's the last time you walked away from a back yard bow shoot with a couple of hundred grand in your pocket... 

Even bad players can make money playing billards... I bought a lot of beer and food from my table winnings while in college...:wink:


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## JohnR (Apr 5, 2007)

*Old farts at sometime will die!*



SuperX said:


> the thing that prompted my question was the fact that there are two camps here - some just keep shooting and seem to care less how they do... others fade away after reaching their goals.
> 
> I don't buy the argument that this happens everywhere - if you look at poker, billiards, and other "hobbies" out there, I don't think they suffer the same level of attrition from the top ranks as Archery does.



*How much does a pool que, deck of cards, or Rod/Reel weigh?

How much does your bow weigh and how much do you draw (in total) during a field shoot? Can you do it as well at 60 as you did at 25?*


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## JAVI (Jun 19, 2003)

JohnR said:


> *How much does a pool que, deck of cards, or Rod/Reel weigh?
> 
> How much does your bow weigh and how much do you draw (in total) during a field shoot? Can you do it as well at 60 as you did at 25?*


Brings to mind a Toby Keith song...:tongue:


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## WV Has Been (Aug 9, 2002)

SuperX said:


> the thing that prompted my question was the fact that there are two camps here - some just keep shooting and seem to care less how they do... others fade away after reaching their goals.
> 
> I don't buy the argument that this happens everywhere - if you look at poker, billiards, and other "hobbies" out there, I don't think they suffer the same level of attrition from the top ranks as Archery does.


I have to agree with Javi. Both hobbies you mentioned can yield many millionaires and others participants make excellent careers.


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## SuperX (May 21, 2002)

WV Has Been said:


> I have to agree with Javi. Both hobbies you mentioned can yield many millionaires and others participants make excellent careers.


Chess? Bridge? pick a "hobbie" if we insist on not comparing archery as a sport, and I challenge you to show me one with the same rate of attrition at the top. 

Archery is a sport you can do your whole life - divisions exist for older archers to move into, the potential exists for a lifetime of participation.

Could it be the politics in archery that is making it unattractive? Is it only because you can't be a millionaire shooting a bow? Even looking at the state level - I bet if you go back to the 80's and 90's the names at the top are often no longer involved. 

just thinking out loud regards,


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## SuperX (May 21, 2002)

JAVI said:


> Won't compute... at least not the two hobbies you named... Those you can make a living at if you're even a little good... When's the last time you walked away from a back yard bow shoot with a couple of hundred grand in your pocket...
> 
> Even bad players can make money playing billards... I bought a lot of beer and food from my table winnings while in college...:wink:


So you say people leave after reaching the top because there is no pot of gold?


not even beer regards,

:tongue:


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## WV Has Been (Aug 9, 2002)

SuperX said:


> Chess? Bridge? pick a "hobbie" if we insist on not comparing archery as a sport, and I challenge you to show me one with the same rate of attrition at the top.
> 
> Archery is a sport you can do your whole life - divisions exist for older archers to move into, the potential exists for a lifetime of participation.
> 
> ...


I think Archery is stuck in the middle. You have to put countless hours in to be near the top. Then you can travel all over the country to compete and the award is what?

I may be wrong but I don't think to many other hobbies are as demanding as Archery with minimal career potential at the end of the journey. Way to much demand for a hobby.


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## Paul Payne (Apr 1, 2007)

Back to the topic of "Great"

I'm not saying I was "Great" in my day only close to "Great" 
I know that years ago when archery was King ( in the 70's) most of us shooters that we're good where heavely involved in a Club and not only did we practice for hours every day but the club involvement took a heavy tole on our time. I know for me I spent 15 yrs involved in our local club, built a Field Course, built a broadhead course, built an indoor range, was Club President for 10 years and hardly got a thank you. In the mid 80's my priorities changed and I got more involved in my part time Photography business. In the 70's I had time to shoot every day and sometimes twice a day so I won numorous State shoots, a National in 1979 and even beat one of the shooters I concidered "great" (Terry Ragsdale) at the Ann Marston Tournament one year. In the 80's there was a shift from Field to 3d and those of us that were involved in spot shooting were pushed to the wayside without even a "Thank you".
I quit my Club, the Field course is gone, the 3d and broadhead course is in disrepair and there are only 1/3rd of the indoor shooters. The local club is 2 miles from my door and I drive 8 miles to shoot at a commercial range that I help start in 1982 because the local club has so many rules and regs now that I no longer care to partisipate. So after a 20 yr "break" I am finally involved again....I started shooting spots again this past Janurary and am loving it again...This next summer I even plan to go to Yankton and try my best in with the Seniors.

Paul


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## JAVI (Jun 19, 2003)

Depends on your definition of TOP...

I wouldn't need to be at the top in poker or billiards to make a good living, I can pick up a money game every night and most afternoons of any day of the week and never leave home. Tennis, yep if you're gonna make a good living you got to be very close to the top and that's a young persons game... How many 40 year olds do you see at Wimbledon? 

To be at the top and make expenses in archery takes a dedication far beyond that of a top recreational archer, I know too many of the sliver bowl winners and while they work hard at the sport, their level of commitment isn't that of a top pro. They don't travel to every money shoot in the hope of making a check, top pros do... They don't shoot three or four disciplines, instead they usually stick to one or two. 

Yes it's about the money if your goal is the top of pro. Folks like me shoot pro for the competition and because we feel that on some days we can compete, but deep down we know that we can't because we have to divide the time and money between home and the game. We can't go to all the tournaments and we can't spend 8 hours a day working on the skills. Heck I have a difficult time training 3 hours a night between 10 hour days at work and 3 nights a week in the gym so I can walk and avoid the blood pressure pills... I teach and put in overtime as much as I can in order to afford the travel, I love the sport but sometimes I have to ask is it worth it... I could just play poker


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## Mike2787 (Jul 16, 2002)

I can only speak for myself..so here goes.

I love to shoot. I love to compete. When I think about the Nationals I've won, nothing compares to the feeling you get walking off the range on the last day with a win. The competition and the test to do it better it was really drove me.

There were lots of reasons I withdrew from the competition part. I think every thread has a little part of each reason.

I'm not sure if one reason didn't out weigh all of the others but here are my reasons.

In 1995, the NFAA decided to change back to 5 - 3 scoring for the National tournament. I didn't like it and I wasn't going to compete in that format. I worked very hard to bring my shooting to the level I had attained and I didn't want go back. The round would no longer be as challenging and I thought lessoned the meaning of the scores. Some may say I was selfish or I was right or wrong but it was my personal decision.

Money.....It takes a lot of money to travel and compete. I never got a lot of money to travel. I didn't complain because I got some when a lot of people didn't get any but I can tell everyone here that not every pro was getting a lot of travel money. The most money I ever got from a bow company in one year for travel expenses was $3000. From 1991-95, the most I ever got was $2000 and I was one of the top dogs. The contingency money was little to non-existant and Vegas payout was 10% - 20% of what is is today. I was very thankful for what I received but money was always a deciding factor in going to a tournament. 

The growth of 3D and the move of sponsors from target to 3D was something that many pros of the period experienced. Many pros didn't like the fact that their sponsors were forcing them to compete in 3D, so they just stopped competing. I can see both sides of this. 3D was, and still is drawing the crowds. That is where the money should be.

Family priorities....My wife and kids never caught the bug. They just liked to do other things. When my boys started playing sports, I got involved. I coached, they played two sports each season all year long. I enjoyed that time and would never trade it. I tried to instill in them the things I learned about competition. This is my greatest accomplishment. 

Time......There just doesn't seem to be as much of it as there used to be. Work has a way of getting in the way. I get three weeks of vacation each year and I have to balance that between family and archery. Guess which one wins most of the time?

My boys will be finished college in the spring and I plan to go to a few more tournaments each year. My health is good, my eye sight is only a little worse. I don't think my aim is too unsteady. I still have the burning desire to win. I like to compete against the young guns and it may keep me from growing too old, too fast.


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## DarrinM (May 21, 2002)

Mike2787 said:


> I can only speak for myself..so here goes.
> 
> I love to shoot. I love to compete. When I think about the Nationals I've won, nothing compares to the feeling you get walking off the range on the last day with a win. The competition and the test to do it better it was really drove me.
> 
> ...


All good points and choices well made from what I know/knew of you!!!!!!!!!!!

Keeping up with Annika on the links can be a challenge  The boys always need the coaching at Donkey Kong and Life! 


Now that bow choice.... Well lets just say you could have done better  I hope we can shoot a round together one day!!!!!


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