# Wolrd FITA 3D Championship 2009 in Italy



## Vittorio (Jul 17, 2003)

Preliminary entries are showing no US archers participating. Is there any specific reason?


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## TheAncientOne (Feb 14, 2007)

I think that the team landed in Rome and hasn't got back from sight seeing yet.

TAO


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## Vittorio (Jul 17, 2003)

Suppose that no comments means no one in NAA is interested to this World FITA Championship. Very curious, from the country that have invented 3D...

http://www.3dfitalatina.com/index.php?lang=en


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## TheAncientOne (Feb 14, 2007)

> Suppose that no comments means no one in NAA is interested to this World FITA Championship. Very curious, from the country that have invented 3D...


Sarcasm is unnecessary.

TAO


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## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

Vittorio said:


> Suppose that no comments means no one in NAA is interested to this World FITA Championship. Very curious, from the country that have invented 3D...
> 
> http://www.3dfitalatina.com/index.php?lang=en


Sadly Vittorio, in American 3D shooting, the term "world championship" or "world champion" has been overused so much that a real world championship apparently no longer has much attraction to the American Foam Bunny shooters:tongue:


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## dead eye dick (Sep 1, 2004)

thats a great point jim i wondered that also i saw a ibo shoot advertised as a world championship i looked at the registered archers and all were from america but one guy from canada, i think things like that really degrade the real world championships with people from lots of countrys


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## monty53 (Jun 19, 2002)

3D in the USA is more of a backyard thing. Two organizations promote it (ASA & IBO) and have regional shoots. One of them is called the "World Championship" but in reality it's not.
Sadly, those that compete in them do not have the insight to see outside the of US. 

Also sadly, FITA does not have an affiliated 3D branch in the USA that I'm aware of.


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## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

I wish I knew more about the circumstances on the creation of FITA 3D. 

I assume that since the USA had several associations (IBO, ASA, NFAA) that provided events for the huge national 3D community, there was little pressure to add to the number of existing events. As a result, FITA member association in the USA has little opportunity to grow FITA 3D since the domestic 3D archers event calendar is full.

I assume another factor is archer sponsorship. If the FITA 3D world championship was incorporated into the pro contracts, perhaps more USA archers would take part. 

I don’t think there is a need to duplicate efforts, I wonder if the 3D interests in the USA could collaborate to incorporate FITA international events into the event schedule. 

This a good problem to have! It means that there is a lot of 3D in the USA and the community has good participation. The negative is that FITA competitions lack USA representation. Perhaps when the USA Archer see that someone else is the champion of a quality field of competitors, some with take on the challenge, revise their contracts, and make the commitment to compete in an field of archers from around the world.

If there were a significant number of USA Archery member association archers that request to represent the USA at the FITA 3D World Championships, I assume there would need to be a trials event or a ranking system for USAA FITA 3D championship team eligibility. But that is a whole other topic including an opprotunity to grow the membership.


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## CLASSICHUNTER (May 20, 2005)

*just back from ibo worlds*

actually at the ibo worlds in 2008 16 countries where represented. I personally shot with a guy from Austria. Sorry don`t know what number was for this year 2009 ... Also there is no real sponsorship to attend.. I was going to go to Italy Canada was going to give me 70 dollars towards a 370 dollar team uniform I had to wear and pay my entry fee of 100 dollars the trip would cost me about 5000 dollars out of my own pocket... plus the rules for the international world 3-d don`t match up very well with what categories we shoot in canada or the ibo... all this for a 10 dollar metal sorry if I want to see Italy I`ll go on a vacation for 2 weeks and really enjoy it... Just my opinion..


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## Vittorio (Jul 17, 2003)

Serious Fun said:


> If there were a significant number of USA Archery member association archers that request to represent the USA at the FITA 3D World Championships, I assume there would need to be a trials event or a ranking system for USAA FITA 3D championship team eligibility. But that is a whole other topic *including an opprotunity to grow the membership*.


This is the only real political reason why FITA is pushing 3D its own way. A great occasion for all FITA member associations to increase membership by attracting 3 D shooters from other associations. It's starting working like this through the entire Europe, and is just matter of time before it takes over any other 3D European activity. And Asia is starting, too...

http://www.archery.org/UserFiles/Do...hips/2009 Events/Latina/09_Latina_entries.pdf


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## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

dead eye dick said:


> thats a great point jim i wondered that also i saw a ibo shoot advertised as a world championship i looked at the registered archers and all were from america but one guy from canada, i think things like that really degrade the real world championships with people from lots of countrys


I caught major grief from some of the foam bunny shooters a few years ago. There was an advertisement for some gear endorsed by someone who claimed to have won more world championships than any other archer!!. THe WC he won was some obscure event that basically drew people from a couple states-one that was not recognized by any major world body that is affiliated with the IOC, the IFAA or FITA. I pointed out that such a claim was complete bovine excrement and to suggest that guy was a better archer than three time world champion Rick McKinney, two time gold and two time silver medalist Darrell Pace, world target champion Clint Freemen or Detmar Trillius, or World Indoor, Outdoor, and Field World Champion M Frangilli not only was a joke, it demeaned the achievements of people who are competing against the best in the world--archers chosen by their national governing bodies.


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## Paul Williams (Jun 18, 2006)

*interest*

certainly no lack of interest here in the states for 3D.
the IFAA World 3D was just held in Yankton, SD.
some of the top FITA Barebow Recurvers were there, including Italia.
very difficult course, i was told.

it certainly would be nice to incorporate 3D in with our existing FITA.
i'd go in a heart beat, just didn't know about it.

what would be even better is if IOC opened up Archery to more disciplines than just outdoor target; very similar to Biathlon. the Biathlon competition has ever conceivable event; while Archery just has one. 

i would love to see Outdoor Target, Indoor Target, and Field at the Olympics, and not only Recurves but Compound also. Mens teams, Womens Teams, and Mixed Pairs Teams. maybe even some round robin play to give it all some drama and heat. ever watch Curling? the round robin is as good as the final match play!!! Participation and spectators, and ticket sales, plus broadcasting would go thru the roof top.

look at Bobsleding, look at Dressage, look at Swimming, look at the other shooting sports. you have rifle, pistol, shotgun...... and don't forget Track.

can you imagine and Indoor shoot off for Olympic Gold. wow, would that be loud stadium or what.

cheers,
Paul


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## Paul Williams (Jun 18, 2006)

*question for Vittorio*

Vittorio,

why is it that in the Olympics, Archery only gets Outdoor Target and nothing else?

anything lurking for the future to add more disciplines or even compounds?

always love to read you comments.
cheers,
Paul
"SGT Williams"

"ora cada e diami i pushups di cinquanta"


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## jmvargas (Oct 21, 2004)

for one thing, the original archery event in the olympics was outdoor target but with no unified rules so that each host country made their own....the emergence of FITA with its international membership and unified rules paved the way for archery's return in the 1972 munich olympics as it had by then complied with the criteria which the IOC had set for new or returning sports...mind you that it's return was a process which started long before 1972 and initiated by fita...

it would indeed be wonderful if more archery events would be included in future olympics but this will not occur overnight...it is a long process...golf has recently been approved as an event for the 2016 olympics but this process took more than 20 years...i sincerely hope it will not take that long for new archery events to be also included....

this is all based on my memory of archery's history in the olympics which i have tried to summarize as best i could...any corrections/ additions are welcome..


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## ZORRO (Jan 15, 2003)

Fita 3D was established in 2003 by IBO and Fita, but Fita council after a couple of year had changed some of the Rules that had created all the popularity of the 3D in USA.
20 years in 3D rules by IBO was changed by 4 people that don't know the 3D philosofy, this is the reason because the USA Team dont' will come in Italy for the World Championship, like in the last edition.
....change the rules...and the world will be good!


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## Flint Hills Tex (Nov 3, 2008)

Vittorio said:


> This is the only real political reason why FITA is pushing 3D its own way. A great occasion for all FITA member associations to increase membership by attracting 3 D shooters from other associations. It's starting working like this through the entire Europe, and is just matter of time before it takes over any other 3D European activity. And Asia is starting, too...
> 
> http://www.archery.org/UserFiles/Do...hips/2009 Events/Latina/09_Latina_entries.pdf


There has been a 3D explosion here in Europe. It has attracted more people to archery than anything else in the past 10 years. The problem is, 3D is basically non-governed over here, since it sort of "popped up out of nowhere!"

Before 3D, you had a well organized FITA target scene and a slowly dying field scene, with participants torn between FITA and IFAA. FITA originally did not feel responsible for integrating 3D into its field program, since they didn't take it seriously ("foam bunny shooting"). The weak national IFAA affiliates were too busy trying to save field archery from extinction to recognize the potential of 3D. 

That left 3D in the realm of hobby and liesure archers. Belatedly, both organisations realized their mistake and have tried to make amends, but a majority of 3D archers feel that they can live just fine without either organisation. While some countries have, through FITA or IFAA tried to seriously organize 3D, to make sure the comps are shot according to uniform rules, and to make sure that those sent to the World Championships are really the best in their class, it is a sad fact that most of the FITA world still turn up their noses at 3D.

In the US, you have the reverse situation: Bowhunting makes 3D archery king of competetive archery venues, and both the manufacturers and the organizations (IBO, NFAA, etc.) were quick to organize their competitions, while FITA target archery unfortunately remains a side show.

So many of our other sports are (extensively) played almost exclusively in North America, that we tend to label our National Championships as "World" Championships (the World Series, the Superbowl, the Stanley Cup, etc.). Most 3D archers in North America could care less about FITA, so they probably aren't even aware of the fact that FITA is hosting a World Championship 3D Shoot.

By the way, I read a report by an Austrian 3D archer, Dietmar Vorderegger, who won the longbow division in Yankton. He was very disappointed in the course, and felt it could have been set up for more challenge. He also mentioned the discrepancy between the number of participants (ca. 160) compared to the IBO Worlds (more like 3,500!).


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## Flint Hills Tex (Nov 3, 2008)

*No Interest?*

Vittorio, I think you'll have to ask your question over on the 3D board to get an answer to your question. When an American archer hears FITA, he or she automatically thinks, "What's that?" or "Olympic style target archery". There really is no awareness that FITA also organizes field and 3D competitions.


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## Vittorio (Jul 17, 2003)

Flint Hills Tex said:


> Vittorio, I think you'll have to ask your question over on the 3D board to get an answer to your question. When an American archer hears FITA, he or she automatically thinks, "What's that?" or "Olympic style target archery". There really is no awareness that FITA also organizes field and 3D competitions.


No, this is the right place were to post my question, as it is the US FITA affiliated organization and its members that have to evaluate the benefits of promoting and controlling a 3D international activity. For NAA it may mean some more hundreds or even thousands of members with a little effort... 
In Italy, just because of 3D FITA we got in FITARCO around a 10% increase of memebrship, all coming from the local IFAA association, in USA it may generate really a big number of additional members.


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## ZORRO (Jan 15, 2003)

Vittorio said:


> No, this is the right place were to post my question, as it is the US FITA affiliated organization and its members that have to evaluate the benefits of promoting and controlling a 3D international activity. For NAA it may mean some more hundreds or even thousands of members with a little effort...
> In Italy, just because of 3D FITA we got in FITARCO around a 10% increase of memebrship, all coming from the local IFAA association, in USA it may generate really a big number of additional members.


completly according with Vittorio's words, but only if the rules will be changed with a standard 3D rules, developped after years of practing.
the actual rules ( based to the FITA standard) aren't right for the 90% of the USA and worldwide 3D shooters, only IFAA and some european shooters can like them.

examples:
11 or 12 for the X will be a must
velocity restriction will be a must
shoot-off must be changed: 4-to-8 shoot in 3D are too discriminate, the quality of the shooters must be more important than the luky


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## Flint Hills Tex (Nov 3, 2008)

Vittorio said:


> No, this is the right place were to post my question, as it is the US FITA affiliated organization and its members that have to evaluate the benefits of promoting and controlling a 3D international activity. For NAA it may mean some more hundreds or even thousands of members with a little effort...
> In Italy, just because of 3D FITA we got in FITARCO around a 10% increase of memebrship, all coming from the local IFAA association, in USA it may generate really a big number of additional members.


Well, I was curious, and posted the question over on the 3D board. I got *one* response:



> I'll be glad to go and shoot it if someone wants to put up $2000 for travel expenses, hotel room, and entry fee!


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## Pete731 (Aug 9, 2002)

FITA shooters already have plenty of tournaments and the outdoor season go so fast (already end of august)!

To get a 3D FITA team, you need to get some interest from FITA shooter. Usually they shoot FITA because they like that style of shooting and don't compete in 3D (IBO/ASA).

So may be the US NAA must recruited a team in the IBO/ASA association? But the best in 3D in USA are also the best paid pro archers in the world (I think)? 

I would also think that these guys don't see why they should participate at the FITA WC 3D when they can do money here without the expense? 

3D in america is very different ... look at all the divisions in IBO and ASA ... they are there for a specific reason, everybody want a cookie :wink:

my 2¢


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## Pete731 (Aug 9, 2002)

> I'll be glad to go and shoot it if someone wants to put up $2000 for travel expenses, hotel room, and entry fee!


I would also be *glad * if someone want to give me $100 000 per year to shoot archery! Anyone???


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## ChristoferH (Mar 31, 2009)

*FITA 3D rules compared to IBO?*

I would be interested in getting the summary on the difference between the FITA and IBO rules, as this seems to be the biggest obstacle to seeing you US guys in the WORLD championchips. 
You cannot say or state seriously that IBO is the World championship even though probably some of the worlds best shooters are there.
We are using 1 minute shooting time , foot on pole, 45 meters max,
60# bow limit - no speed limit as I am aware of.

We missed you US guys at the 3D championship in Sopron Hungary and will most likely miss you in Latina Italy as well??

I think this is a shame that the organisations cannot work together and we finally would get a judgement on who is the best 3D shooter of the world (for that year).

I am part of the Swedish team that will participate and would appreciate any comments or suggestions. 

I think that 3D is overtaking both Field and Target in number of participants all over Europe (at least true for Sweden) and therefore it would be very interesting to get a joint IBO/FITA US/Europe world championship


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## Big Johnc (Sep 2, 2007)

The reason for IBO/ASA getting the numbers is the classes. Everyone competes with someone on the same level. I do fill that the Pros in these could compete in the worlds as the rules are about the same.
Cash is what drives them to the shoots not the titles.


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## ArtV (Jan 29, 2008)

Jim C said:


> Sadly Vittorio, in American 3D shooting, the term "world championship" or "world champion" has been overused so much that a real world championship apparently no longer has much attraction to the American Foam Bunny shooters:tongue:


In America "Foam Bunny" shooters win money not itsy bitsy medals.....even a local club shoot will pay $100 for the traditional class. What does a NAA 3D tournament pay? Oh darn I forgot....the NAA pays nothing to no body. :embara: 

I think the "real" 3D shooters find it amusing that the "Paper Poppers" club (NAA) finds it necessary to start shooting 3D......they understand the reason....no one shows up for paper popping tournaments any more, so they feel the need to join the club to get some activity, but hey, I don't think anyone shows up for their 3D shoots either. It might be something to do with the smug attitude demonstrated by some NAA members.:wink:


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## ArtV (Jan 29, 2008)

Serious Fun said:


> I wish I knew more about the circumstances on the creation of FITA 3D.
> 
> I assume that since the USA had several associations (IBO, ASA, NFAA) that provided events for the huge national 3D community, there was little pressure to add to the number of existing events. As a result, FITA member association in the USA has little opportunity to grow FITA 3D since the domestic 3D archers event calendar is full.
> 
> ...


Frankly, most look at the FITA shoots as has-been's. I think the FITA folks should take the other view....they can join the IBO ASA or NFAA....who cares about the FITA organization which has failed to fit the needs or desires of American shooters. Even the NFAA has very little support any more for outdoor shooting. They, like FITA or the NAA are johnny-come-lately's to 3D shooting. Perhaps FITA shooters should have qualifing rounds to come and shoot in the IBO or ASA World Championships....no one is excluded, all can shoot, regardless of their country of origin. We know it's a little scary for them...I mean most FITA targets have a center the size of a grapefruit whereas to be competitive in 3D you need to hit spots the size of a quarter that you can't see with the naked eye...pretty challenging in comparison. 

So, why the condescending attitude that they aren't really World Championships....If Vittorio wonders why no one from America is attending the shoot over there. We can only wonder why no one from Italy attended the IBO and ASA World Championships held here last month? They'd be welcome if they could qualify....however, the competition is pretty steep. 

The winner won enough money to pay for his or her trip both ways, take a tour of the US and put money in the bank. Can anyone tell me what the incentive to go to Europe to shoot a FITA 3D tournament would be?  
Art


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## Vittorio (Jul 17, 2003)

Frankly, my original question was addressed to NAA /US Archery members only, not to members of other local organizations. 
FITA is handling 3D like any other discipline, by the way of national teams registerd to the championships by Fita member associations only. So, even if someone from ASA or IBO would like to get to FITA 3D championship, he can't if he is not NAA member and sent by them as member of one official US national team, maximum 3 per gender and division.
So, discussing about archers willing to get to the championship is a non sense, as NAA only can decide if US should be represented at the championship and who can do it. And surely NAA is in a position to sort out 3 Compound, 3 Long bow, 3 Bare bow and 3 Traditional bow archers per gender after a trial competition and form a national team like they do for Fita Field Archery. 
Question again is why not?


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## jmvargas (Oct 21, 2004)

vittorio..i think the only time that will happen is when national pride overcomes the monetary incentives as far as 3D is involved....from what i've been reading that seems to be the reality right now for the US 3D archery community....JMHO..


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## ArtV (Jan 29, 2008)

Vittorio said:


> Frankly, my original question was addressed to NAA /US Archery members only, not to members of other local organizations.
> FITA is handling 3D like any other discipline, by the way of national teams registerd to the championships by Fita member associations only. So, even if someone from ASA or IBO would like to get to FITA 3D championship, he can't if he is not NAA member and sent by them as member of one official US national team, maximum 3 per gender and division.
> So, discussing about archers willing to get to the championship is a non sense, as NAA only can decide if US should be represented at the championship and who can do it. And surely NAA is in a position to sort out 3 Compound, 3 Long bow, 3 Bare bow and 3 Traditional bow archers per gender after a trial competition and form a national team like they do for Fita Field Archery.
> Question again is why not?


I'm curious, do you shoot "known" yardage or un-known yardage at a FITA 3-D event over there?
The IBO does field a "world 3-D" longbow USA member team. I think they competed in France last year or perhaps it was the year before.


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## aggiegoddess (Aug 12, 2009)

I watched a TV 3D Shoot in Europe where they shoot 2 arrows at each 3D target DUH?


What the hell were they thinking?


TAG


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## Vittorio (Jul 17, 2003)

Fita 3D is one arrow per target, 20 targets, unknown distancies. Max dist. 30 mt for BB,LB,Trad., 45 mt for Compound

Rules are on chapter 11.10 of Fita book 5:
http://www.archery.org/UserFiles/Document/FITA website/05 Rules/01 C&R Book/2008RulesENG_Book5.pdf


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## Floxter (Sep 13, 2002)

Actually the IBO sent teams to the 3DI competition two years in a row. The shooters sent were the "Shooters of the Year" in each of the three classes: Longbow, Recurve Unaided, and Compound. There was a lot of excitement among the IBO shooters about the prospect of attending. Unfortunately in the subsequent two years the IBO hasn't had or didn't want to spend the money to sponsor a team(s), consequently no U.S. participation. Since the competition is not an "open" competition, but requires sponsorship by a FITA affiliated or recognized organization, until another organization such as NAA, NFAA, or ASA steps up to fill the gap there will be no American representation.


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## Barebow champ (Sep 21, 2006)

Vittorio said:


> Frankly, my original question was addressed to NAA /US Archery members only, not to members of other local organizations.
> FITA is handling 3D like any other discipline, by the way of national teams registerd to the championships by Fita member associations only. So, even if someone from ASA or IBO would like to get to FITA 3D championship, he can't if he is not NAA member and sent by them as member of one official US national team, maximum 3 per gender and division.
> So, discussing about archers willing to get to the championship is a non sense, as NAA only can decide if US should be represented at the championship and who can do it. And surely NAA is in a position to sort out 3 Compound, 3 Long bow, 3 Bare bow and 3 Traditional bow archers per gender after a trial competition and form a national team like they do for Fita Field Archery.
> Question again is why not?


The NAA has a difficult time placing much importance on FITA Field. With the reorganization, quite an effort has been made to recognize that part of archery but they still don't know much about it and they focus strongly on target. Those of us on the US Field Team are pretty much on our own. I would think that most of the FITA Field shooters would also like to shoot FITA 3D. I know I would. I think if someone in the NAA could be placed "in charge" of both FITA Field and FITA 3D, then there could be something done. Currently FITA Field is self funded. I am sure that 3D would be as well. That is hard to compete with tournaments that pay or at least partially fund a team member.


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## Vittorio (Jul 17, 2003)

Website: 
http://www.3dfitalatina.com/ 

Program: 
http://www.archery.org/content.asp?id=3732&me_id=2668 

Entries: 
http://www.archery.org/UserFiles/Do...hips/2009 Events/Latina/09_Latina_entries.pdf 

Results: 
http://www.archery.org/content.asp?id=4300&me_id=2582 

Photos by Dean Albenga for FITA: 
http://www.archery.org/UserFiles/Im...ampionships/WorldChamp2009/2009_3D/index.html


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## CLASSICHUNTER (May 20, 2005)

*results*

vittorio are the results up yet can`t get them from the site link you provided thanks


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## Guest (Sep 17, 2009)

Not seeing how Fita and 3-D are mixing together with only 170 shooters.


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## Flint Hills Tex (Nov 3, 2008)

Sean McKenty said:


> Not seeing how Fita and 3-D are mixing together with only 170 shooters.


Ah, but how many participate in a typical target World Championship? See, you have to qualify to participate, so 170 shooters is not a small number.


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## Vittorio (Jul 17, 2003)

To evaluate a World Fita championship or any other FITA competition, you have to count the number of Nations attending, not the number archers. Archers are limited by the rules to 3 per gender/style/country


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## ArtV (Jan 29, 2008)

*Just a Thought*

I know this forum is primarily a tournament shooting forum but for our international audience I might just offer a little thought about American shooters.

Every year I am a vendor at a All "traditional" shoot up in PA. No compounds allowed. There are between 6,000 and 8,000 shooters who show up for this 4 day event every years....it's not a competitive shoot. Everyone there is there for a good time only. I set up as a vendor at three other events that have a constant year to year turn out of shooters of 600 to 1,000 shooters...again they are not competitive shoots and are traditional gear only. 

I'm not sure how many show up at the IBO or ASA World event here in the States but I'll bet it is a vastly larger number than show up at any International Sponsored events. I understand a Nationally sponsored team event is different, but the bottom line is why fund something like that if the pay back isn't there. I mean, other than the Olympics or the PanAm games, on the World Stage who cares if Italy beat Romania...or a US Team beat Sweden in a 3D event. 

The vast majority of archers in the States are not seriously interested in tournaments. Most are hunters who use 3D as a tune-up for hunting season or they just like shooting a bow for the fun of it. 

Art


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## Floxter (Sep 13, 2002)

Art V your points are well taken. Actually the last time the IBO sponsored teams to the FITA or 3DI competition, they sent two archers from each of three shooting styles, compound, BB recurve, and longbow. That meant six archers, including their airfare, hotel, and meals. As you say, if the competition were held in the U.S. I wonder just how many Europeans and Eastern Europeans would be funded to show up. This year there were 23 countries represented, all of whom were from Europe or Eastern Europe. The only representatives from the western hemisphere were Mexico with 3 competitors and Canada with 1, both of which were probably self-funded compounders, and none from the far east.


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## Floxter (Sep 13, 2002)

The really sad thing is that the IBO with over 20,000 members nationwide, and 3-4000 attending their "World Championship" and 500-1000 attending each of their Triple Crown events surely has the talent pool and the resources to select and fund a FITA 3D team, but they choose not to do so. As an IBO member, I have to ask why?


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## swerve (Jun 5, 2005)

No bang for the buck. Sponsored teams are a form of advertising/marketing. What does the IBO gain from sponsoring a team?

Dollars is what it will take to send the likes of Jeff Hopkins, Dan McCarthy, or Levi Morgan into Europe to compete. Hate to be rude, but that where it is.


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## jmvargas (Oct 21, 2004)

i don't think that's being rude swerve---that's reality!....and believe me it's happening all over the world..


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## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

ArtV said:


> In America "Foam Bunny" shooters win money not itsy bitsy medals.....even a local club shoot will pay $100 for the traditional class. What does a NAA 3D tournament pay? Oh darn I forgot....the NAA pays nothing to no body. :embara:
> 
> I think the "real" 3D shooters find it amusing that the "Paper Poppers" club (NAA) finds it necessary to start shooting 3D......they understand the reason....no one shows up for paper popping tournaments any more, so they feel the need to join the club to get some activity, but hey, I don't think anyone shows up for their 3D shoots either. It might be something to do with the smug attitude demonstrated by some NAA members.:wink:


what is interesting is I shot some as a kid. From about 76 till 95 I didn't shoot NAA stuff. Yet when I went to Oxford, I recognized more than a dozen people. The NAA archers tend to be around a while. I shot 3D for several years in the early-mid 1990s. Funny, they drew lots of people at the local shoots including the one where the IBO was founded. Yet the turnover was amazing

sorry, spending up to 8 hours to shoot 20 arrows just doesn't do it for me. The amount of time the archers take "ranging" is idiotic as well. to claim that is hunting practice is as stupid as watching people change chokes after watching a target in clays and claiming that is realistic hunting practice (hold on mr pheasant, you cannot flush at 50 yards when I have a cylinder choke in)

As to the money, most people-even the pros-would probably get a better return if they took all the time and money they invested and put it into a real business. 

Bow and arrows 1500 dollars, Plane fare and hotels-1500 dollars, Representing your country in a real world championship, Priceless


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## JovenPadaguan (Dec 6, 2004)

Big congrats for the new compound World Champion, my buddy *Jose Maria Rodriguez Lopez* from *Spain!* :thumbs_up

2009 FITA Indoor National Champion, and silver medal in teams (along with me  )
2009 FITA Indoor World Championships, 4th in teams (also along with me  )
2009 FITA Outdoor National Champion
2009 FITA 70m National Record - 353 points
2009 FITA 3D National Champion
2009 FITA 3D World Champion


All with his Apex-7, a great opportunity for Mathews to add another great shooter to their "staff shooter list" 

And congrats for all the spanish expedition for the great results!


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## Vittorio (Jul 17, 2003)

Wolrd 3D Championship Finals went Live on RAI Sport+ Italian TV for one full hour and ended 15 minutes ago. Something unusual also for our TV.


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## ArtV (Jan 29, 2008)

Floxter said:


> The really sad thing is that the IBO with over 20,000 members nationwide, and 3-4000 attending their "World Championship" and 500-1000 attending each of their Triple Crown events surely has the talent pool and the resources to select and fund a FITA 3D team, but they choose not to do so. As an IBO member, I have to ask why?


Only they really know, but I would suspect they figure it just isn't worth their while or investment. Using the numbers you quote for the various shoot turn out along with major sponsor involvement going to a World event may not pay.

It's a level of sponsorship the NAA or NFAA probably don't enjoy. Most shooters don't want to stand in one place and fire arrow after arrow at a target. It's boring to them. However, it is a real drag in a 3D shoot waiting for some of the shooters to get prepared to shoot one arrow...I'm glade both the IBO and the ASA has clamped down on "time at the stake". It helps a lot.
Thank goodness they have a separate shooting courses for traditional and barebow shooters...we don't have all the gizmoz to fool with that Oly shooters and wheel bow shooters have to mess with just to shoot an arrow. And the slowest are the cross bow shooters...fortunately there are just few a of those guys in the competitive archery ranks...I suspect more don't show up out of embarrassment....It's strange how they think they are some how shooting a bow...must be the arrow connection.

Anyway, there's only so much money to go around.

Thanks for the reports Vitorio. That is amazing they posted so much time on TV. It was probably due to the uniqueness of the shooting style. 3-D.
Art


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## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

ArtV said:


> Only they really know, but I would suspect they figure it just isn't worth their while or investment. Using the numbers you quote for the various shoot turn out along with major sponsor involvement going to a World event may not pay.
> 
> It's a level of sponsorship the NAA or NFAA probably don't enjoy. Most shooters don't want to stand in one place and fire arrow after arrow at a target. It's boring to them. However, it is a real drag in a 3D shoot waiting for some of the shooters to get prepared to shoot one arrow...I'm glade both the IBO and the ASA has clamped down on "time at the stake". It helps a lot.
> Thank goodness they have a separate shooting courses for traditional and barebow shooters...we don't have all the gizmoz to fool with that Oly shooters and wheel bow shooters have to mess with just to shoot an arrow. And the slowest are the cross bow shooters...fortunately there are just few a of those guys in the competitive archery ranks...I suspect more don't show up out of embarrassment....It's strange how they think they are some how shooting a bow...must be the arrow connection.
> ...


crossbow archers are as much archers as any other. That's a pretty ignorant statement art.


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## CLASSICHUNTER (May 20, 2005)

*its archery*

art sorry buddy but uncalled for statement about crossbows. your last sentence answers it... it must be the arrow connection... well duh...


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## ArtV (Jan 29, 2008)

*cross bows*

Look manufacturers developed the "modern" cross bow and marketed it playing on the psychology of guys who want a short cut in hunting. They think the thing can be shot as easily as a gun. They also think it can be more accurate on longer range shots so the necessity of getting close to your game is eliminated...both are false. We all know a bolt doesn't carry enough kinetic energy to be a very effective killing weapon on longer range shots. Since crossbows were for years and years only allowed to be used for hunting by those who are disabled, this in itself infers that the weapon must be easier to shoot than a real bow or more traditional archery hunting gear. We know this isn't true either..it is simply more convenient to handle in tight situations like sitting in a wheel chair or shooting if you are missing an appendage, hence disabled shooters could have the opportunity to hunt. 

The weapon is primarily purchased by those those who think they won't have to put in the effort necessary to be proficient with regular archery gear, so they can get a turn at killing Bambi during the archery season. 

Crossbow Target shooting? Hey, everyone deserves a class to shoot in.

As far as the arrow tie-in...I have an old Wrist Rocket (you know, rubber bands) with a wire on it for shooting arrows...let's see if the NFAA will start a class for Wrist Rockets. We can call it a Rubber Wrist Bow...it makes as much sense.... DUH.

Just my humble opinion of course. Not that any of this conversation will change anything. 

Art


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## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

ArtV said:


> Look manufacturers developed the "modern" cross bow and marketed it playing on the psychology of guys who want a short cut in hunting. They think the thing can be shot as easily as a gun. They also think it can be more accurate on longer range shots so the necessity of getting close to your game is eliminated...both are false. We all know a bolt doesn't carry enough kinetic energy to be a very effective killing weapon on longer range shots. Since crossbows were for years and years only allowed to be used for hunting by those who are disabled, this in itself infers that the weapon must be easier to shoot than a real bow or more traditional archery hunting gear. We know this isn't true either..it is simply more convenient to handle in tight situations like sitting in a wheel chair or shooting if you are missing an appendage, hence disabled shooters could have the opportunity to hunt.
> 
> The weapon is primarily purchased by those those who think they won't have to put in the effort necessary to be proficient with regular archery gear, so they can get a turn at killing Bambi during the archery season.
> 
> ...


every rant about crossbows was used against compound bows. 

Grow up art-your whining about crossbows out of a sense of entitlement or faux superiority only helps groups like PETA


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## ArtV (Jan 29, 2008)

The vast majority of the archery community has the view I posted above.


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## ArtV (Jan 29, 2008)

Crossbows are what help PETA....not the messenger pointing it out. By the way the arguments regarding crossbow inclusion are in fact qualified arguments regarding compounds. Hence, the vast growth of traditional archery. It soon becomes tiresome carrying around a bag of wrenches just to shoot. Even Samick has jumped on the traditional curve. But, they follow anything that might be profitable. 

Tournament archery has been and probably will continue to struggle and I sure don't blame them for trying to include anything that might bring new membership.

It will never be a well funded sport. Certainly not at the level of other major sports. But, it is hoped that the hunting community will continue to grow which keeps archery alive. Crossbows or no crossbows....anyway most who get duped into buying one soon put them down and go back to archery's roots. And, that's a good thing. 

Sorry if I got your dander up Jim. :sad: I trust you'll get over it.:darkbeer:

Art


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## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

ArtV said:


> The vast majority of the archery community has the view I posted above.


Really? I think that is bull and I really don't care. Lots of people have ego issues and worry about what other people hunt with I suppose. Given the way things are going, you best be careful that people who use accurate tackle don't start trying to lobby to ban stuff that is easily depicted as inaccurate. All they need to do is to film 3D shoots where trads are constantly missing or merely catching foam.

The hardest part of bow hunting is getting in range. The anti crossbow rants by people who want to pretend that a non-competitive recreational activity they enjoy is somehow tarnished by what kind of bow another archery hunter uses are trite, tired and without much factual basis.


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## ArtV (Jan 29, 2008)

Thanks Jim, I'll keep that in mind. I do appreciate your encouraging advise.

Shoot straight and stay strong.

Art


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## steve morley (Dec 24, 2005)

I shot this Fita 3D tourney last month.

The whole tourney is greared around the spectators to give them maximum access to the event, the touney was held in a park in the middle of the city and like other Fita world cup knockout tourneys, so it's high pressure shooting, again making it interesting and exciting for spectators,TV and press.

The number of countries taking part and number of spectators is growing every year, this will only get bigger, USA sent a team in 2005 and they did well.

Fita really have got the shooting fomat right, they've managed to make Archery interesting as a spectator sport and can only I imagine Archery memberships will grow as a result of their forward thinking.


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