Let's hear it. What is your PRIMARY method of shooting your hinge. No bickering. No arguing. No mine's better than yours. Just vote and let's see how the numbers stack up. Then we can see what method is most popular. Because, let's be honest. All methods on the list work. It just comes down to what you feel is best for yourself.
RCR_III
- Status
What would be useful to know is what is the most accurate method.
It would appear the pros do not use the top one (according to Levi).
The advantage of relaxing the hand and arm appears you are less likely to "pull" off line.
Been an interesting month on here.
It would appear the pros do not use the top one (according to Levi).
The advantage of relaxing the hand and arm appears you are less likely to "pull" off line.
Been an interesting month on here.
That's a question that can't be answered by anyone but yourself. There's no one size fit all to accuracy and how you execute a shot with a hinge release. I've put the time behind the string on all the methods to find what I like the best. I'm accurate with all of them. But, I have found tendencies with all of them that are common for my misses. What I did was find the method I could shoot with the smallest misses. The most infrequent misses. And the side affects resulting from the method being something that interfered as little as possible and gave me good shots time after time.
How's about "Letting it happen because the site is sitting still WHEN I'm doing it right and bouncing all over the place when I'm not "doing it right?"
If you are so focused on the release and the release hand and back tension, you are already TIGHT and NOT "relaxed" and since you are thinking release, and you can only concentrate on one thing at a time, then you are thinking in the past while the shot is going off in the present and you are hoping the future turns out...because you aren't really focused on the point...the impact point of the arrow, that is!
Those top pros really don't "think about it", they just GET IT DONE. They know that if the site is sitting still, they are "there" with regard to the physics and biomechanics...if the site is bouncing around, they are NOT "there" and will let down. You don't see the pros let down often.
Why? Because they have practiced to the point where they rarely get it wrong...while the beginners and mid-level shooters are practicing to try to get it right...and changing everything all at once searching for a magic bullet.
field14 (Tom D.)
field14 (Tom D.)
If you are so focused on the release and the release hand and back tension, you are already TIGHT and NOT "relaxed" and since you are thinking release, and you can only concentrate on one thing at a time, then you are thinking in the past while the shot is going off in the present and you are hoping the future turns out...because you aren't really focused on the point...the impact point of the arrow, that is!
Those top pros really don't "think about it", they just GET IT DONE. They know that if the site is sitting still, they are "there" with regard to the physics and biomechanics...if the site is bouncing around, they are NOT "there" and will let down. You don't see the pros let down often.
Why? Because they have practiced to the point where they rarely get it wrong...while the beginners and mid-level shooters are practicing to try to get it right...and changing everything all at once searching for a magic bullet.
field14 (Tom D.)
field14 (Tom D.)
none of the above. the options outside ONLY bt all consist of static shots with hand manipulation (even how Griv's method of yielding is posed). I setup the shot relaxed and stay relaxed THROUGHOUT the shot; pressure between the halves is building during the entire shot process. Due to the platform being relaxed, as that pressure between the halves builds the hand stretches and the release fires.
The only method I will speak to is Griv's- it requires the back to be engaged for the ENTIRE process to execute correctly; pressure builds between the halves and capitalized upon the relaxed platform to fire a release.
The only method I will speak to is Griv's- it requires the back to be engaged for the ENTIRE process to execute correctly; pressure builds between the halves and capitalized upon the relaxed platform to fire a release.
You know your release process whether you just sit back and let it happen or focus on it. You focused on it before to get it where you can just trust it now.
From RCR III; That's a question that can't be answered by anyone but yourself. There's no one size fit all to accuracy and how you execute a shot with a hinge release. I've put the time behind the string on all the methods to find what I like the best. I'm accurate with all of them. But, I have found tendencies with all of them that are common for my misses. What I did was find the method I could shoot with the smallest misses. The most infrequent misses. And the side affects resulting from the method being something that interfered as little as possible and gave me good shots time after time.
It should be a question that can be answered by a coach. They should be able to give the pros and cons of each method and be able to demonstrate, give examples of what they are saying is correct.
The hardest thing is of course to change "established" views of what is best. It can be very difficult for someone to change if they think they are going to lose face over it.
Once accurate data is presented then change should be adopted, in fact it would be foolish to continue along a path proven to be wrong.
I watched a documentary on the Hedron Collider and as more experiments were performed and data gathered, physicists who had dedicated decades of work to the location of the "God" particle say all of this work disproved as new data came to light.
I have taught the top two methods for a long time but are starting to believe I have been teaching a method which is not the most accurate. I have been trying the last option for a few weeks now and I am pleased with the results. I am trying to locate as much data as possible on why it is more accurate. It would appear a lot of the winning pros use this method or a variation of it.
It would be good to know which method is proven to be more accurate and how to teach people to shoot this way.
It should be a question that can be answered by a coach. They should be able to give the pros and cons of each method and be able to demonstrate, give examples of what they are saying is correct.
The hardest thing is of course to change "established" views of what is best. It can be very difficult for someone to change if they think they are going to lose face over it.
Once accurate data is presented then change should be adopted, in fact it would be foolish to continue along a path proven to be wrong.
I watched a documentary on the Hedron Collider and as more experiments were performed and data gathered, physicists who had dedicated decades of work to the location of the "God" particle say all of this work disproved as new data came to light.
I have taught the top two methods for a long time but are starting to believe I have been teaching a method which is not the most accurate. I have been trying the last option for a few weeks now and I am pleased with the results. I am trying to locate as much data as possible on why it is more accurate. It would appear a lot of the winning pros use this method or a variation of it.
It would be good to know which method is proven to be more accurate and how to teach people to shoot this way.
I can give my findings on each method if you like? Atleast my own personal experiences. I would think you could talk to a hinge shooter and ask them what their hang ups and findings are as they come across them and suggest different methods to try based on that.
That would be good RCR III I guess the main problem and it has been mentioned here a lot lately is many have invested considerable time in a shooting method because this method was pro ported to be the best one. Then Levi said it wasn't.
While all of the methods in your poll have been around for a while people have not been able to see past the conventional wisdom of our time and see the advantages of these other methods.
It would also be prudent not to do what Levi said just because Levi said it, (even though he is probably right).
While all of the methods in your poll have been around for a while people have not been able to see past the conventional wisdom of our time and see the advantages of these other methods.
It would also be prudent not to do what Levi said just because Levi said it, (even though he is probably right).
So I had to pick 1 method, but several would fit.
I release pressure on the index
I relax the hand and arm...but not to fire
The video where Griv explains the hand relaxing seems close as well...the hand is stretching....but most of that stretch is the index giving up more than the rest.
The back is employed very early on...there doesn't seem to be a transfer as it is already engaged. (Kind of the Alistair Whittingham draw technique) and it is maintained throughout the shot.
I release pressure on the index
I relax the hand and arm...but not to fire
The video where Griv explains the hand relaxing seems close as well...the hand is stretching....but most of that stretch is the index giving up more than the rest.
The back is employed very early on...there doesn't seem to be a transfer as it is already engaged. (Kind of the Alistair Whittingham draw technique) and it is maintained throughout the shot.
Something I find as a revealing factor by how I set up the poll is that most everyone is writing in that they use a combination of methods. That's the point of why I structured the poll the way I did. I wanted people to look at the options and realize that firing a hinge is not a one size fits all arrangement. It's not a my method is superior. It's not a your method is bogus or mythical type deal. There's no unicorns and leprechauns here. There's just mechanical functioning through the combination of the body and device in hand.
I know this probably won't end the bickering, name calling, insinuating, or hard headed comments and thinking. But, maybe it can open some eyes to what is really going on here. It's not voodoo. It's quite simple when you stand back and look at it all really.
I know this probably won't end the bickering, name calling, insinuating, or hard headed comments and thinking. But, maybe it can open some eyes to what is really going on here. It's not voodoo. It's quite simple when you stand back and look at it all really.
Yielding top of hand, Griv? "To activate the shot your index finger softens on the release and allows the handle to pivot slightly (there is very little perceivable motion here, but you can feel it) and POOF! The shot is released." http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=453861
Larry; http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=489770
Larry; http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=489770
What is my primary hinge method? None of the above.
To draw an (accurate) analogy between the game of golf and archery;
In golf, if you only putted you would only need one club, the putter. If all of your putts were from three feet or less you could probably get by with a garden hoe, or a rake, or a ball bat. The same can hold true for close games in archery. At ten yards, most anything will do.
In archery, if you only shoot from 20 yards (with a flat floor and a controlled environment) you can get by with only one method, (not really, but for the sake of the discussion lets assume you can.) Point being, in archery, distance, terrain, and external factors come into play, just like in golf. In golf, before you make the shot you must decide what club you are going to use. In archery, before you load your bow you better know how you're going to let it fire, and that varies with conditions (and I regress, it sometimes varies at 20 yards inside.) Saying you only use one firing process in archery is like saying a putter will work good off the T when a driver should be the proper club.
:cheers:
To draw an (accurate) analogy between the game of golf and archery;
In golf, if you only putted you would only need one club, the putter. If all of your putts were from three feet or less you could probably get by with a garden hoe, or a rake, or a ball bat. The same can hold true for close games in archery. At ten yards, most anything will do.
In archery, if you only shoot from 20 yards (with a flat floor and a controlled environment) you can get by with only one method, (not really, but for the sake of the discussion lets assume you can.) Point being, in archery, distance, terrain, and external factors come into play, just like in golf. In golf, before you make the shot you must decide what club you are going to use. In archery, before you load your bow you better know how you're going to let it fire, and that varies with conditions (and I regress, it sometimes varies at 20 yards inside.) Saying you only use one firing process in archery is like saying a putter will work good off the T when a driver should be the proper club.
:cheers:
My dominant choice that gives me the strongest shooting:
1. I come to anchor and as I settle in on the spot I want to hit I increase my back tension into the wall to a set amount.
2. I then release my thumb peg and give that poundage to my index finger that I am keeping nice and solid.
3. As I float on the x I very smoothly Increase the pull into the wall with my ring and middle finger.
4. Arrow gone.
1. I come to anchor and as I settle in on the spot I want to hit I increase my back tension into the wall to a set amount.
2. I then release my thumb peg and give that poundage to my index finger that I am keeping nice and solid.
3. As I float on the x I very smoothly Increase the pull into the wall with my ring and middle finger.
4. Arrow gone.
I draw.......Anchor to the click........Aim...........and relax my hand to the point where I get the sensation I'm trying to let the release slide out of my hand.... Arrow gone!!
Well, I questioned the Poll as for content. I posted links....and nothing...
Increasing Back Tension ONLY
Increasing pressure with outside fingers ONLY
Releasing pressure on index finger ONLY - George Ryals (Griv) all the way
Releasing pressure on index while increasing pressure on outside fingers
Yielding top of hand. (letting hand stretch aka GRIV method) - Not Griv and Yielding top of hand? Still, more to Larry Wise
Relaxing hand and arm while holding with back muscles - Still, more to Larry Wise
4:46 pm CT and Relaxing hand and arm in the lead by 1. Mounting to 26 of 56 if Yielding and Relaxing hand and arm is taken as Larry.
Increasing Back Tension ONLY
Increasing pressure with outside fingers ONLY
Releasing pressure on index finger ONLY - George Ryals (Griv) all the way
Releasing pressure on index while increasing pressure on outside fingers
Yielding top of hand. (letting hand stretch aka GRIV method) - Not Griv and Yielding top of hand? Still, more to Larry Wise
Relaxing hand and arm while holding with back muscles - Still, more to Larry Wise
4:46 pm CT and Relaxing hand and arm in the lead by 1. Mounting to 26 of 56 if Yielding and Relaxing hand and arm is taken as Larry.
I'm at work so it'll have to be in a couple hours when I can get to my home computer. I'll post up the video GRIV has about his yeilding the top of his hand to allow it to stretch at the base knuckles. It's a spring board affect. That's where I'm coming from with that. It's been years since I watched or read about Larry Wise's methods. I'll have to refresh on that. I only remember him teaching to use strictly back tension and a stagnant hand. Not saying I'm right or wrong, that's just how I was remembering it.
RCR, nothing against you. I just have what's in front of me. No videos, no youtube things. On Dial Up......
I'm still working on what "works" for me. I've done the
pull, pull, pull, shot gone--not so accurate
and
the pull, hold- point index...ok but requires too much thought
and
pull, hold, squeeze- relax the draw hand--better than the above but float not so good.
and
the winner....
pull, hold, squeeze....give up the bow side back first, draw side follows-- every time I do this I'm in the gold--probably half 10's and half those x....problem...hardest for me to consistently "let go". I try other stuff but keep coming back to this one...giving up the BT. Kind of "I'm done" and the shot goes.
so, as the poll goes...What is most accurate (if I do it all the time) isn't on the list
pull, pull, pull, shot gone--not so accurate
and
the pull, hold- point index...ok but requires too much thought
and
pull, hold, squeeze- relax the draw hand--better than the above but float not so good.
and
the winner....
pull, hold, squeeze....give up the bow side back first, draw side follows-- every time I do this I'm in the gold--probably half 10's and half those x....problem...hardest for me to consistently "let go". I try other stuff but keep coming back to this one...giving up the BT. Kind of "I'm done" and the shot goes.
so, as the poll goes...What is most accurate (if I do it all the time) isn't on the list
9:09 pm CT check.....
Increasing Back Tension ONLY ------------------------------ 10 -----* Larry
Yielding Top of hand ----------------------------------------- 07 -----* Larry - I thought confusing - RCR still to look into
Relaxing hand and arm while holding with back muscles - 20 ----- * Larry - above/here - Larry states fingers tight (hang on to release)
----------------------------------------------------Total ------ 37
Variations of George Ryals (Griv)
Increasing pressure with outside fingers ONLY ------------------------------- 09
Releasing pressure on index finger ONLY ------------------------------------- 04
Releasing pressure on index while increasing pressure on outside fingers - 21
-------------------------------------------------------------- total ------------- 34
Increasing Back Tension ONLY ------------------------------ 10 -----* Larry
Yielding Top of hand ----------------------------------------- 07 -----* Larry - I thought confusing - RCR still to look into
Relaxing hand and arm while holding with back muscles - 20 ----- * Larry - above/here - Larry states fingers tight (hang on to release)
----------------------------------------------------Total ------ 37
Variations of George Ryals (Griv)
Increasing pressure with outside fingers ONLY ------------------------------- 09
Releasing pressure on index finger ONLY ------------------------------------- 04
Releasing pressure on index while increasing pressure on outside fingers - 21
-------------------------------------------------------------- total ------------- 34
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